Jamie Hess
Appearances
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
I feel like I just need to pause for a moment and bring you into my brain as I was sitting here interviewing Jesse. I can't imagine how scared and confused she must have been. Here she is, nine years old, and her entire world was just turned upside down and ripped apart. Her mother is lying in a hospital bed on the verge of death. And her father is, well, who knows where the hell he is.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
This brave, traumatized young girl was being passed around to relatives and kept in the dark, all while trying to process what the hell was going on and what would happen next. The part Jessie didn't know, couldn't have known because she was far too young, was what was taking place in the media, what me and the rest of the world were watching.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
At this juncture, all we knew was that a suburban woman was shot point blank in the face outside her home. It was a mystery and had regular folks all over the country thinking, could this happen to me? Neighborhoods were abuzz, people were scared, and everyone wanted to find the perpetrator. What no one could know was that that perp, well, She was about to be named.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Who the hell was Amy Fisher? Wow. Mary Jo had never heard of this name before, but it turns out Joey had. She was a customer at Joey's shop, a 17-year-old customer, to be very, very clear. And when she turned up on Mary Jo's doorstep that day, she brought with her not only a gun, but some shocking news as well.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
That's right. Amy came to Mary Jo's perfect home that she shared with her quote-unquote perfect husband, Joey, that day to shake up her world in every which way and attempt to end it.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Of course, at the time, Jessie was unaware of how the investigation was unfolding. All she knew was that her mother was lying in the hospital, fighting for her life. But little Jessie hadn't even been allowed to see her mom up to this point. She was too young. So all she could do was wait.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
When Jessie was nine years old, she was getting ready to take part in it. She'd no longer be left behind while her big brother and the other neighborhood kids caused a little harmless mischief on their way to school. Her biggest worry was remembering her bike lock combination.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
It's not a bullet to the head. Imagine that being the barometer against which you gauge the validity of any childhood trauma, any bumper bruise, any broken heart from your first love. Imagine at nine, you felt like you had to invalidate your pain because at the end of the day, it's not a bullet to the head.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Mary Jo began to miraculously recover, which, once again, left things in a precarious and bizarre place. I mean, now what? It's starting to appear as if Mary Jo was shot by a teenage lover of her husband, but was this really the case? This is where the story becomes windy, and it's something that Jesse is still unpacking to this very day.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Because the media so strongly invaded her family's privacy and pushed into their lives so obtrusively, Jesse thinks they closed ranks as a defense mechanism, which allowed Joey to maintain the facade that this was all a big misunderstanding. Amy Fisher was some lovestruck teenager who did a crazy thing unrelated to anything he did. And the family had to stick together now more than ever.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
You know, hindsight is an amazing thing. I think we can all look back now and with the advantage of time, clarity, and several made-for-TV movies on the topic, we can understand immediately that this is hogwash nonsense. But at the time, the family, well, they believed him. They wanted so badly to believe him that they just did. And so, everyone just came back together under one roof.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Joey, his wounded, recovering wife, Mary Jo, and the kids. And they acted like a united front against the real enemy, the media. Of course, I couldn't help but ask Jessie, in her quietest moments, in her teenage bedroom, what she really thought. Like what goes through your mind as a preteen living with your dad after all this went down?
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Outside of school and neighborhood shenanigans, Jessie spent her time at dance classes and just generally preparing to be the greatest thing Broadway had ever seen. You know, singing along with the best of the 90s divas, just waiting to be discovered from her bedroom.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Mom came home, dad was the number one husband. And he just lied to her and she believed.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Imagine that you had to deal with this pressure on your own, hiding it from your family and therefore cutting yourself off from the only support system you had. Now, imagine this is all happening at a time when attention spans were a lot more concentrated and not as fractured as they are today with a million distractions and downloads that allow us to jump and click from one thing to the other.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Back then, everyone paid attention to the same news cycle. In today's terms, this was viral on a level we don't see even these days. Although going viral wasn't a thing back then yet, but having news crews camp out on your front lawn for months at a time, well, that was, that was very much a thing. This case was unarguably the jumping off point.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
It was the first true crime sensation that was the first piece in the puzzle, ultimately leading to today's obsession over all things true crime, from podcasts to the dateline of it all. This case even came before the OJ Simpson case.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Okay, so here we are with 90s exploitative media culture just about to hit hyperspeed. From O.J. Simpson to the talk shows that newly littered the airwaves each day with shocking, controversial, and intrusive content for the first time in history. You know, shows like Donahue, Sally Jesse Raphael, and of course, This guy.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
In the meantime, the arrest of Amy Fisher would not bring any peace to the Buttafuoco household. In fact, every time Fisher, who was now being called by the press the Long Island Lolita, appeared in court, more secrets were revealed.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
And if you were around in 1992, even if you were just a kid, like Jessie and I were, then you probably know exactly who her dad is. And if you don't, we'll catch you up. Either way, you're going to want to hear this story from her perspective. Because even though Jessie gives off major main character energy, Her famous last name. The trauma of both the attack and the media coverage.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
And just when the Buttafuoco family thought it couldn't possibly get any worse... Jessie learned the affair with her dad began when Amy was only 16. And then Amy included Joey in the version of her murder plot, claiming that he had manipulated her into committing the assault. The conflicting claims between Amy and Joey were splashed all over Nightly News and the tabloids.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Joey's lawyer, of course, insisted his client was never involved with the young woman and that she had invented the whole affair. Well, Amy's lawyer portrayed her as the victim. After her assault conviction, Joey was indicted on 19 counts of statutory rape, sodomy, and endangering the welfare of a child.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
At first, he initially pleaded not guilty, but later agreed to a plea deal and was sentenced to six months jail time. He was released after serving only four months and nine days of that sentence. Eventually, the accumulation of lies, trauma, and anxiety would push Jesse into a dark path.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
And everything that came after pushed her down. But not anymore. Today, this warrior goddess takes back her narrative. And I couldn't think of a better guest to help us celebrate today. the one year anniversary of this podcast. That's right.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
This show holds space for humans to share stories of turning pain into purpose and the resulting switch flip that ensues, seeing life through a lens of gratitude. When I met Jessie Buttafuoco, I immediately knew that she was the literal embodiment of this. So today, on the one-year anniversary of this show, I bring you her story, Jessie Buttafuoco, today on the Gratitudology Podcast.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
It was then that Jessie's friend, who had been quietly sitting in the corner, piped up and chimed in. Of course, she could only do so anonymously, as she explained to us that she sits under a mountain of non-disclosure agreements. But she begins to spill the tea.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
She shares on experiences where producers would talk proudly amongst themselves about how to get people to cry on camera and how to, quote, break them. What are their weak points? She told us about one executive producer who purposely dehydrated and kept his head talent drunk for three days because he knew by the fourth day they'd be so drained that they'd crumble on camera.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
As her producer buddy shares it all, Jessie nods her head at some parts and shakes it in disgust at others. Then she turns to me.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
And that is the point of this show. One year in, I've realized this. If sharing people's stories can help others avoid some of the same pitfalls and get right to the gratitude, then these are stories worth sharing.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
I'm so grateful to be on this magical, spiritual, sparkleful journey with you.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
And your peace is going to be making your mess your message. You can only do that once you've healed. Jessie, I am so excited that you are finding peace and that you've been brave enough to make your mess your message. This is what we do on the Gratitudology podcast. But you can only do that once you've healed.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
And we're so proud of you and your journey and your ability to not only survive, but to thrive. If you want to learn more about what Jessie is up to, you can follow her on social media. It is her name at Jessie Buttafuoco on all platforms.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
It's also important to mention, should you or anyone you know be experiencing thoughts of self-harm, you can contact the National Suicide and Crisis Hotline by calling or texting 988 or visiting 988lifeline.org. I want to send out a huge thank you to my thousands of loyal listeners, maybe a few new ones today as well. Welcome to this space. We're grateful you're here.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
In 1992, I was 12 years old, and things were just different. If you're my age or older, you get it. But for the youngins, let me frame this up for you. There was no internet, or hardly any at least. There was no social media. It was a simpler time somehow. The legendary song by Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody, from 1975, was charting again due to its inclusion in the movie Wayne's World.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
And I'm grateful to have had the honor of sharing these amazing stories with you all for the last year. And let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing yet because we only just begun. Don't forget to follow me at Jamie Hess on Instagram and follow the podcast at Gratitudeology on Instagram and YouTube. That's all for today.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Remember, if you like what you heard, if it impacted you in any way, and if you think it's a message other people in your life might like to hear, I'd be so grateful if you'd give me five stars, leave a quick little comment. Those things really help. And share this podcast with your friends, either on social media or just word of mouth.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
I'm on a mission for us all to help each other focus on expanding our attention towards what's good in the world rather than focusing on what's bad, one person at a time. If we all did that, even to our own little sphere of influence, the world has the potential to be a much more radically awesome place. Stick with me, friends. I've got your back.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
We're in this together, and it's a great day to see the greatness in the day. See you next time. The Gratitudology podcast is written, executive produced, and hosted by me, Jamie Hess. Sound design and studio production by Gotham Production Studios. Our theme song is Maze by Hills, sung by Nadia Ali. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Gratitudology.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
But if you wanted to listen to said song, You had to go down to Sam Goody or Tower Records, those were the music stores for those of you who are too young to know, and buy a cassette tape. Or, if your parents were bougie, a compact disc. People still watched mostly local news and shows on primetime TV for entertainment. Bill Clinton had just won the Democratic presidential nomination.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
But nobody had heard the name Monica Lewinsky yet. Reality TV did not yet exist, although that was about to change. In fact, the very first episode of MTV's The Real World premiered just days after the incident we're about to get into. And in a way, this fact was endemic of all that was to come, both in pop culture, true crime, and in this story in particular.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
we were just about to turn a cultural corner. Up to now, gossip was either shared in hushed tones over a backyard fence or over shared cups of coffee between PTA moms amidst a 90s wood-paneled kitchen. But we were about to turn that corner all right. where all of a sudden, all of the world was a fishbowl.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
We began to expect our neighbor's trauma to be served up on a silver platter for us to consume. It is amidst this moment that we meet Jessie. Only at a tender nine years old, she couldn't possibly have any idea about what was about to come. What was your perspective of your parents growing up? Like, I mean, you were so young, but what did that kind of look like to you?
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
Let's go to the beginning of that day.
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
This is wild. So for all of these hours, no one's telling you and your brother what's happening?
Infamous
What If Joey Buttafuoco Was Your Dad? Listen to Gratitudeology with Jamie Hess
This episode mentions gun violence and suicide. Please take care while listening. Born in 1983, Jesse's childhood was like one long movie montage combined with a classic family sitcom.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Well, I was a publicist for my whole 20s and I was born to be a PR girl. Like I was just born to do it. I loved that job, but I was always fighting against myself because PR, as you can maybe imagine, I don't know if you know a lot about the world of public relations, but especially in New York City, it's like champagne and cocaine and models and bottles. And that's just what it is, you know?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And it was a very easy job for me to lose myself in. I was doing a lot of nightclub and hospitality hotels, you know, PR for those types of places. I was out all the time. You felt like you had to be out like doing drugs in the bathroom with the writers from page six, because that's like how you got further in your career. And it's like, it was hard.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
It was very hard to get sober in that environment. For a couple of years, I was actually the publicist for Crowbar, which is the biggest nightclub in New York, Chicago, Miami. So like literally in the belly of the beast. So there was a lot of... And I think this happens to a lot of addicts. You get your whole identity wrapped up in that. Without the drugs, am I even me anymore?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Because am I even a publicist? Am I even cool? Am I even part of New York nightlife? When I came out on the other side, I really had to give myself a little time to get my sea legs. And to be honest, I had to take a little time away. I went back to my sport. Fun side note, I'm a horseback rider. So I had to... Burn it to the ground and build it back up.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I took three years to go teach riding to young women and go back to the working outdoors and getting dirty and working with animals. And then after three years, I woke up and I was like, okay. I'm ready to go home. I was in LA at the time. I'm ready to go back. And I came back to New York and I hit the ground running.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
What happened on the other side of that is the part I always tell when I'm up keynote speaking, which is this incredible, I started falling up. And it was not even, I didn't get any new accreditations. I didn't learn any new skills, but as a by-product of showing up, as a new, different, whole version of myself because I did the work.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And the work, again, the work wasn't something I could do in like a six-week workshop. What you're hearing me say is I went to rehab and took three years to rebuild myself from the ground up, dismantling my identity from New York City nightlife, rebuilding my ego and my place in the world. And then I came back, by the way, to my high-power career. I didn't have to give it up.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I had to build myself back into a place where I came there, not a shell of a person, but a whole person.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And so I start following up. So I start getting promoted. By the way, three-year employment gap. Had to explain that. Came back after teaching little girls how to ride ponies for three years. And I was like, I'd like to be a high-powered publicist. And they're like, what about the last three years, babe?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Side note for anybody wondering, I got all my high-powered friends, editors, writers, celebrity friends of mine, to write a little blurb about what it had been like to work with me in my early days of PR. to show a testament, you know, hey, she's been out of it for a couple of years, but this is someone who, so where there's a will, there's a way is what I'm saying.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Got myself a job and started falling up. And I believe it's because I came to work every day with a humble spirit of gratitude. Everyone else in the office was doing what people in offices do. The West Coast office was fighting with the East Coast office and all the PR girls were being catty and they were fighting with each other. And I was just happy to be there.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And the reason I was just happy to be there was because I know that it didn't have to go down like that. that I potentially should have been dead. And by showing up as this different person, people just, it was magnetic. It was magnetic. And within three years, I got promoted from account executive to senior account executive, to managing director, to VP, to SVP.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I met my now husband who, I'll borrow this from Dr. Phil, I believe that relationships aren't 50-50, they're 100-100. And both of us had done the work to become full people. In fact, when I was set up with him, my girlfriend who set us up said, Jamie, why don't you have a boyfriend? I said, because I'm happy. She was like, well, I want to set you up with my friend, George.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I said, fine, I'll meet your friend, George. And then fast forward, here we are 13 years later with two kids. But all of that happened because I showed up as a different version of me, not from a place of lack, but from a place of abundance.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I'm amazing.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I would love to say that I'm an expert in balance, but I don't sleep very much. And what I'm going to be honest about is that's a terrible, terrible thing to sacrifice. So what I'm working on. as we go into 2025, is setting better boundaries. I would very much recommend for any solopreneurs out there having a business coach of some ilk.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I'm feeling amazing. And I very much believe in the reticular activating system of our brain. So I've taken to saying I'm amazing. I've taken to saying, you know, as I'm walking down the stairs in the morning and my mind wants to say, You know, oh, I'm so tired. It's so early. I say, wow, why is everything so amazing? Why does everything work out for me? How is my life so incredible today?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I am a business coach for other people, but I also have a business coach. And the reason is because when I started as an entrepreneur, I was like, wow, now I don't have to also, I was always side hustling while I was in the corporate job. I was like, now that I don't have this corporate ball and chain, I'm going to get everything off the ground in the first 90 days.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I'm going to write seven books and speak on 90 stages and be on TV. And guess how many things I got done, Mick?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Zero. Zero. Because I was trying to do everything at once. So it was like that old meme, like I have 15 tabs in my brain open, one's playing music and I don't know which one is which. Nothing was actually going across the finish line. I think that prioritizing and setting boundaries is really important.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
So for me, also at the end of the year, having kind of like a bit of a come to Jesus, looking at my P&L, which projects did I put the most time into and were those the most profitable? And if not, We got to fix that. You know what I mean? So I would say for me, honestly, I do believe energy begets energy. I just keep going. I'm very ambitious, but I also do a lot of things that I just love.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
So truly none of them feel like work, but I should also manage myself as a wellness expert. And I started this whole game as a wellness influencer. I should manage myself, care a little better and make sure I sleep as well.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
The science says that you're not going to live as long. So my concern for you and for me, by the way, is that I also feel okay after not sleeping as long. However, it's like literal brain damage. So it is important to try to get eight hours of sleep as an adult, and I'm not accomplishing it. One thing I would suggest maybe getting a tracker, like an aura or an ultra-human ring,
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Another product I was introduced to recently, and this is not an ad, it's called Beacon 40. It's like a light that you put in front of your face and you stare into this light and it helps with the part of your brain that essentially is kind of cleansed when you sleep and it kind of helps repair some of that. So now that I think we should just be biohacking it and not sleeping...
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
But I do believe that you should at least pay attention to your sleep, pay attention to your brain, because it concerns me when I don't sleep. Because I do know the science. Even if I feel somewhat okay, part of self-care and your body replenishing, especially if you're exercising and working out, is sleep.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Acts of service. Okay. When I went into recovery and my sponsor, I would just – I'm stuck in my head and I'm having cravings and I'm having anxiety. She was like, I totally understand. That can be hard. You should reach out your hand and help another alcoholic. I was like, I don't think you heard me, ma'am. I said, me. I'm having a problem. I'm having these problems. She was like, yes.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And the more you call it out like that, the more you believe it.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
So you should go help someone else. I was like, no comprendo. What are you talking about? No. It was news to me. It was news to me that the only way to get out from between my two ears was to go help somebody else, to go be of service. We build self-esteem by doing esteemable acts. It's why the first thing they teach you in rehab is to like make your bed every day, right?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Like by having structure, discipline, and doing things that make us feel complete and pride, we build self-esteem. So if you're waking up every morning and you're just feeling like I can't get to a place of gratitude, I'm just having a hard time getting my two feet on the ground and feeling good, go be of service. Go help somebody else.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Because I'm telling you, it's the life hack that people don't realize. And the problem is it's not because people aren't good people. We want to help each other, but we're just so busy. But when you're so busy and overwhelmed is exactly when you need to go be of service.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And you don't have to go work in a soup kitchen. You could just call a friend you haven't talked to in a while and say, how you doing?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
That's it.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Totally. We have so much ego and it's hard to just say, you know what? I'm having, I'm struggling. I'm having a hard time. And, um, you know, a lot of people wait until it's too late, right, to raise their hand. But the reality is when you get the thing that's troubling you out of your head, saying something out loud takes so much of the power away from it, like so much.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And anytime I've had, you know, a struggle, whether it was addiction, whether I had an eating disorder that cropped back up, even in my active recovery, I've been sober for many years, but I had an eating disorder that cropped back up, you know, after I had had kids and I had to
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
stand in that doorway of my living room, looking at my husband on the couch, being like, am I going to go have this conversation right now? And I did it. And the second you do it, the second you tell somebody else, hey, I'm not okay. You think everything's going to get worse, but everything gets better. Everything gets better as soon as you brought somebody else in.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
So this is why I believe the power of hyperlocal accountability of just reaching out and saying, I need to fix this, or I need some help, or I need to, you know, can you help me? Magic.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
That's a trick question because I don't cook, but... You know, butter and jelly.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
It's a trick question.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
My husband is the chef in our family. He did not marry me for my domestic goddess skills. But let me tell you, I have other things that I do well. We have our lanes.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Scheduling our family and just keeping, I run my house like I run my business, like an absolute maniac. But I think that that's the key to having kids. I truly like lack of chaos. We are, you asked me what we're doing next June. I got you. We're booked. We're good.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
But it de-stresses the whole family because they know mom's got, I know dad's got dinner, but mom's got, you know, the plane tickets for, you know, for spring. In a relationship, you have to have your lanes. And by the way, they may not look like the gender lanes from the 50s, and that's okay.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I mean, I really disclosed it earlier, but it's like, it's just yelling at me loud in my head. It's the only answer I can give, which is setting professional boundaries. I think that when you are a mom, you're always going to live in a bit of mom guilt. But I'm very careful to tell my kids, just because I work this hard doesn't mean you're any less important.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
It just means that work's important and so are you. And we all learn balance.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Well, this is always kind of my fun mic drop moment because usually people read a description of the podcast episode or they read my bio. And I've done a lot of cool things as an adult. But the fun mic drop moment is that I was an addict and alcoholic. And growing up, wow, I made life hard for myself. I made it hard. I made it dark. And I didn't see any other way out.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
They can head over to coachjamiehess.com. That's where my coaching program is. Gratitudology.com or you can find the Gratitudology podcast anywhere podcasts can be listened to. In fact, you can also text the word gratitude to 33777 and you'll get the links to listen. And you can also find me on Instagram at Jamie Hess.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Ditto, my friend.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And the interesting thing about recovery is that they say that addiction is the only disease that once you get the treatment, you actually end up better on the other side. Like if you have cancer and you go into remission from cancer, you just go back to not having cancer. But with addiction, when you do the work in recovery, you come out a different person on the other side.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And everything that I learned about gratitude, about having a daily spiritual practice, about not being a victim and taking accountability for things and having integrity, that That was all news to me. Like that was like a blueprint for living I didn't have. And so my why, my because, because I got sober and because I learned a new way of living.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And as a byproduct, I got this understanding that an attitude of gratitude is the heartbeat of happiness.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Well, you know, it's really easy to have this big philosophical idea that, like, we should be grateful. But what does that actually break down to? Like, that's hard. And so how do we appreciate appreciation? How do we remain in abject gratitude for our very breath? And that does come down to the moments. You are absolutely right. It's really how we talk to ourselves.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
You know, I've done a lot of cool things as an adult, but the fun mic drop moment is that I was an addict and alcoholic. And growing up, wow, I made life hard for myself. I made it hard. I made it dark. And I didn't see any other way out.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
At the end of the day, I believe that it comes down to how we talk to ourselves because, you know, a lot of people compartmentalize. We read self-help books. And then in that moment when we read the self-help book, we're inspired to be grateful. Or we give advice to others. And in that moment, we're inspired to give somebody else advice to just, you know, really sit back and things could be worse.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And there's starving children in another country and you're here and hey, things are pretty good and be grateful for that. And it's like, that's not enormously helpful. People used to tell me when I was younger and in my addiction. Like, what are you doing? Like, you just be grateful. Like, you have a nice life. My mother is TV journalist Joan Lunden.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I grew up with a nice life and they weren't wrong. But let me tell you something, Mick. Guess how much that helped me, them telling me just knock it off and be grateful. Zero. That didn't help me. In fact, it made me feel more shame. I'm like, oh my God, they're right. I have a good and I'm privileged and here I am completely blowing everything. I really am a loser.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And then I went and used more because like, who wants to live in that? Easier to escape. Okay. So how do we actually sink into gratitude? Well, it's, It's actually simpler than you think, but it's actually a little more annoying than you think. You see, what I always say is the work doesn't really feel like the work when you're in it. It just feels like a series of minor inconveniences, right?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
We all like to say, I'm doing the work. I'm doing the deep. I'm doing the work. Are you? Because the work doesn't feel like anything profound. It feels like in that moment when you walk into the bathroom and look in the mirror and you call yourself fat saying, ah, ah, ah. We don't talk to ourselves like that. That is a beautiful woman or a beautiful man I see in front of me. I am fabulous.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I'm in my power. I'm in my presence. I am a child of God. That's the work. That's literally the work. It is stopping yourself in those micro moments and saying, come on, get back grounded, pull that leash back. We're going to get back in gratitude.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Well, there's a reason they call it a practice, right? You have to practice. It's not intuitive. And in fact, I would challenge that it's the opposite. So our brains are actually wired the way that our neurochemistry is wired. We are wired to look for the bad, the problems, something that might attack us, the saber tooth tiger. It is what kept us alive as a species.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
However, what happened or what didn't happen is our brain didn't evolve out of that. In other words, you're not looking to escape a saber-toothed tiger all day. It's not coming. You're good.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
But what we do instead is we react that same way to, you know, the judgmental email from a client or the unhappy email from our boss or the side eye from a coworker or, you know, a weird, you know, kind of glance from our partner or loved one. And all of a sudden we feel attacked. we fall under siege and we get fight or flight. So it's really about having a practice.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
So you have a little bit of armor so that intuitively, because here's the thing, I don't always do the gratitude or the positive self-talk or the taking a moment thing perfectly. But I do it a lot more intuitively now. I do it a lot better now than I used to. And that came from a practice. The practice is, for me, a couple of those simple things.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Well, you know, it's really easy to have this big philosophical idea that like we should be grateful. But what does that actually break down to? Like that's hard.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I really hate when people who talk about gratitude come on and just say, here's what you do. You do a gratitude list of three things in the morning. Like, we get it, Pam. We get it. You know? Like, okay. Okay. but gratitude list, great place to start. I will say this, my good friend, Chris Shembra, who's another gratitude expert.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
He said, you know, everybody in marketing, like has to have something they're for or against, like in the marketing of their own brand, you know, like I'm for this and I'm against this. He goes, you want to know what I'm against? I said, what Chris? He goes, gratitude journals. I said, okay, Frank, give it to me. Tell me, why are you against gratitude journals?
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
He said, because I feel that everyone's been sold a lie that this cottage industry of gratitude journals is the thing, is the gratitude. And why he's saying that is that gratitude is also a pro-social exercise. So by sitting... in your head, in your bed, and writing down three things, it is a good start. It's not a bad place to start.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
But by thinking that's the beginning and the end of a gratitude practice, I think is short-sighted. So gratitude is a pro-social approach. The more that we can profess it, the more that we can say that, you know, especially as leaders, we forget, it's very easy to tell people what they're doing wrong, right? But it's harder to remember to tell people, hey, you know, I had a boss.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
My last time I was employed, by the way, I mean- I'm employed, but the last time I was employed by a company, and now I'm an entrepreneur. The last time I had a boss. Now I have clients. It's a whole different set of problems, but I had a boss, right? And two bosses, female-founded company. It was the best place I ever worked. I worked there for the last seven years of my corporate career.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I was an SVP of a big agency. They never failed to, you know, if you were doing a great job, I would just get an email saying, hey, Jamie, we just want to let you know you have really been crushing it lately, and it has not gone unnoticed. Here's a $250 gift card to go get a massage. Enjoy. And I was floored. And my mom used to say, they are so smart.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
You know, the stupid $250, it costs them nothing. You're never going to leave that company. I said, you're right. because I feel appreciated. And that goes so far, but it also boomerangs back to the appreciator, right? Because this is like a goodwill boomerang that we're doing here. So there's a lot of different ways that we show and express and receive and profess gratitude throughout a day.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
I do like a gratitude list. I think it's a good pen to paper exercise, but I'll tell you, Mick, sometimes when I'm just having a hard moment, I will go, this is, I call it either bathroom prayer. I'll go in the bathroom and say the serenity prayer, or I'll just like pop on YouTube on my phone and type in like Gratitude meditation, five minutes and do the first one that comes up.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Well, there's a reason they call it a practice, right? You have to practice. It's not intuitive. And in fact, I would challenge that it's the opposite. So our brains are actually wired the way that our neurochemistry is wired. We are wired to look for the bad, the problems, something that might attack us, the saber-toothed tiger. It is what kept us alive as a species.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
It's just about getting in the habit of taking a contrary action.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Well, thank you. And I think it's a great point. It's a great point. And I think it's hard for people sometimes to stay in gratitude in general when they're going through a rough time. That's obviously when we need it most, but that's when most people start to slip and be like, you know what? Everything isn't great, you know? And you just want to lean into like, woe is me.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And that's honestly why I started my podcast, Mick, is because my podcast, so I had another podcast for four years prior to this one and it was great. It was a I co-hosted it with a couple other well-known women in wellness, and it was called Off the Gram, and it was everything at the intersection of wellness and social media.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
It was a chat show, and it was fun, but I really wanted to do deep, immersive audio theater storytelling, audio narrative with sound design and narration and telling these great stories. And I love true crime, but I don't. Ever since I became a mom, I became a wimp.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Like I used to love 48 hours and Dateline, but like I, and I love true crime podcasts, but like, I don't want it to end with like, and her body was found in a ditch. It's like, now that I'm a mom, I'm too protective to like deal with that. I'm like, especially when it's about kids.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
So I was like, how can I take people through a story like that where there's like a cliffhanger and you're like, what's going to happen next? And then leave them with a really motivational outcome. That would be nice, right? So my why, my because, the answer to the question you asked me earlier was my addiction. I went through addiction. I went to a really dark place.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And then as a byproduct, I got better. I gained gratitude and it's fueled my success going forward. And as I went to more entrepreneurial conferences and summits, I realized every eight, nine figure entrepreneur has the same story. Any celebrity thought leader, we all have our why story. Something happened. It taught us a great lesson, usually along the way.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And then we came out on the other side, a different person. So each episode, each week, I tell the story of one person. I go and interview them and I do almost all my interviews in person. So I am flying around the country with a crew, sitting with these people because I just want to be heart to heart, eyeball to eyeball and hear it.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
And I mean, I've had people like Rainn Wilson and Nev Schulman from Catfish and Gabby Bernstein. I mean, such cool people. And we get into their story and I tell it in a way where you feel like you're listening to an audio book. But the goal is to show people that if they are going through that hard process, point in their life right now.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
Not only is it not the end, like we always have to see the darkness before the brightest light. What might be on the other side of that? If you play your cards right, right? If you lean into it, lean into the suck because there's something to be learned there. What's on the other side of that is amazing. And so I really believe that's a big part of gratitude is like almost the disruptive part.
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
It's really easy to be grateful when everything's
Mick Unplugged
Jamie Hess | Cultivating Resilience: Jamie Hess's Story of Addiction, Recovery, and Gratitude
But learning to be grateful for the parts that suck because you know that they're there to teach you a big lesson. I think that's like gratitude. You know, the rest is gratitude 101. This is like AP gratitude.