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Jad Abumrad / Chad (Radiolab host; primarily Jad Abumrad)

👤 Person
367 appearances

Podcast Appearances

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Hey, I'm Chad Abumrad.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Robert's traveling today, so it's just me.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And today we have a very different kind of story than we've ever done.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It comes from a journalist and filmmaker named Luis Treas.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And an interesting thing kind of happened as we were reporting this.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Luis and one of our producers, Tim Howard, had called up this guy, Vladimir Ceballos, who is a filmmaker himself, a Cuban guy, an exile.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And the interview happened to be just a few hours after Obama had made that big announcement.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

That happened just before the interview.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Vladimir, how are you doing?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

This is Tim in New York, and we also have Luis.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yeah, amazing news, right?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Man, I was crying, man.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yeah, I was crying, man.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

First of all, you know, I've been here in the United States for 20 years.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And I never think that I was going to see this day, you know?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Because it has been 50 years, 53 years, since the United States, you know, broke the diplomatic relationship with Cuba, and nothing happened in Cuba, you know?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Everything is the same.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Now, everything is going to change.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Today, a collaboration with a fantastic program, Radio Ambulante.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Luis Treas comes to us from them.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

This is a story that predates the stuff you've been hearing in the news.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

In many ways, it's maybe a tiny, dark preamble to all of that stuff.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It's a story about Cuba, the power of music, and a group of Cuban kids who decide to opt out.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

In this crazy way that when Luis Treas told us about it, we almost couldn't believe.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So the reason we called up Vladi is that we wanted to hear the backstory of all of this.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Well, I was born in Pinal del Rio in 1964.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Tell me about what it was like for you to be a kid.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I was happy because in Cuba we didn't have any information.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

We didn't have any communication with anybody outside Cuba.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And everything that we received, it was the news that the government wanted to give to us.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He remembers listening to endless Fidel Castro speeches on the radio.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I remember when I was a kid in elementary school, all the time they were teaching us that Russia...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

What's the big country in the world, the big economy, and everything that we would hope is to be like them.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It was a given that he would get in line every year to get his toy.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

You know, I only got three toys every year.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Because of rationing?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And then every week, he and his folks would wake up, they would go to the nearest church.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

To throw eggs at the church building.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Throw eggs at the church?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Because we didn't believe in God.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

The government, they didn't believe in God, you know?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

That's how you showed you were a good revolutionary and Vladimir was just being a good boy.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But when he turns 14, there comes a day when a friend takes him aside and shows him a video of Led Zeppelin.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Do you remember what Led Zeppelin song it was?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It was my first time that I hear rock and roll music.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

How did it make you feel when you heard Kashmir?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

You know, you see Robert playing, and you see Jimmy Page with those long hair, and the move that they have.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And the thing that they say, it was really different.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And because of that, you know, I was completely changed.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Completely changed my life.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Let me tell you, completely changed my life.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He's not sure why, but in that moment... I went from a good example to freaky.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So Freaky's are what Cubans call the most extreme metalheads, hard rock, punk rockers.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

We start wearing dirty clothes, clothes with holes, long hair.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

The Cuban radio station didn't put any rock music.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I remember when I was 19 years old, 20 years old, my father gave me a Russian radio, and it was a good FM.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

We went to the roof of some friends, because in those roofs you can listen to the station from Florida.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Oh man, we listened to Rolling Stone, Sympathy with the Devil.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

We were excited to listen to Barry Manilow.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

After that, I didn't like it.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

In the beginning, everything that came from there in English was good.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Because, I don't know, that kind of music gives us another door.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So Vladdy's walking around with ripped jeans, long hair, and that's fine.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It's a normal youth rebellion.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But then, in the late 80s, everything changes.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And in reaction, the Castro government dug in.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Suddenly, music you listen to became very ideological, and if you listen to rock, you were listening to the enemy of the Cuban state, the United States.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

The government created a police presence in every neighborhood, every five blocks.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And Vladimir says, if the police found you and you had long hair... They'd beat us.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Send you away to work cutting sugar cane in the cane fields.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

That's like that, boom.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

In school, they'd often cut your hair against your will.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And just to jump in, this is the point in the story where things take a very, no other way to say it, a very punk rock turn.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Because into this cultural war... Steps a guy named... Papo.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

We name him El Papo La Bala.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

You know, Papo the Bullet.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I really want to say that he tried to embody that.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

That kind of bullet to your brain, that wake up...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He's a professor at Southern Oregon University.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He went several times in the 90s to Cuba to interview Papu, who he calls the Kurt Cobain of the freakies.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yeah, he looked very intense.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He was cocky and confident and just charismatic.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Those are two friends of Papo's, Jesus Diaz and Luis Hernandez, who was also a bandmate of his.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So Luis remembers the first time he met Papo, and it was...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

on a night that a Communist Party meeting was taking place right outside his house.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And when he's coming... On his head?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Your father hid when he saw him coming with the American flag on his head.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

You can see video of Papo because Vladimir shot a documentary in 1994 where he interviewed Papo and some of the other frikis.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And in that documentary, Papo talks about growing up poor.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Father is an alcoholic.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

By age 14, he's in the streets.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And a few years later, he makes a decision that's really at the heart of this story.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

What happened was that in 1989, I think, or 1990... Somewhere around there, the Cuban government is fighting in Angola.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It's backing a leftist liberation movement, and it's kind of a proxy war with the United States.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And in the late 80s, Cuban soldiers start coming back home.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And some soldiers from the Cuban army that were in Africa, they came with HIV.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And because of that, the government has all the people in Cuba tested with HIV.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

If you belong to a high-risk group, you were tested.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They went to your place of work.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They went to your apartment.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They went to the school.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They went to everybody.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They went to my ward, and they tested everybody over there in the radio station.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Vlad says they would come in, take your blood, and if they found that you were positive... The police came, put you in the police car,

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I go straight to the sanatorium.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They just locked you up?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And I remember one day I was talking to him.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Papu said, look, I want to live free.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Look, they're kicking me out.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They're beating me out.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They don't want me to leave.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

like a rocker here, they are doing a lot of things to me.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I'm going to do a lot of things to them.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He told me, look, I went to this rock concert in Villa Clara.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Papo told him I met up with these other rockers.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They were HIV positive.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And I went and took a syringe, drew some blood from their arm, and I put the needle in my own arm.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And I get myself with HIV.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I get myself with blood contaminated with HIV, you know.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And I look at him and said, man, do you know what you did?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Do you know what are you doing?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

You're going to die, man.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And he said to me, I don't care.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He knew for sure that when he did that, that that was a death sentence?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Vladimir's not quite sure that the others that came after Papo really knew what they were doing.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Remember, he said socialism or death.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And Papo said to me, death is a door.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

When you don't have any more doors to open, death is a door.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Coming up, that door gets wider, others walk through.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And for at least a beat, they find something besides death.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Something quite the opposite.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yes, 1-2-1-2, mic check.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

That's Luis Trejas of Radio Ambalante.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Let's go back to his story about Cuba and music in the late 80s and 90s.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And so far, a dude has made a crazy decision, a dude named Papo, to inject himself with HIV.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Would you call it a protest?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I think Papo would have called it a protest, but not the guys that came after him.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

This is at a moment when there was a cultural war happening between the Castro government and anyone it deemed antisocial, which included kids with long hair who listened to rock.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And it was also a moment where if you were found to be HIV positive in Cuba, you were forcibly quarantined.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So Papo injects himself and he gets sent to the sanitarium.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And can you describe that place?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Like, what did he find?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Well, he found a beautiful place in the middle of the Pinar del Rio countryside.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It's full of palm trees, very green, very lush, farm animals roaming in.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yes, yes, I was there.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I was there, and there are still farm animals over there.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Actually, they would roam in as a couple of cows and chickens.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It's like kind of an idyllic place.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So I went there to visit the last two rockers that still remain in the place, Gerson Gobea and his wife, Yohandra.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And they're kind of like the keepers of all that went down in there, the memories.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So I spent a couple of days with them, and they walked me around.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And it's full of these little housing units.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And you're saying this place was idyllic even back then?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Gerson and Johan are walking me through it, and they're like, okay, so we would be walking around here 10 years ago, and Nirvana would be coming out of here.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Metallica would be coming out of the next house.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yeah, so it was like a headbanger's ball in Pinar del Rio, you know?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I mean, how come they were able to have that freedom in the sanatorium but not outside?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Initially, the sanitarium system was under the military, and it was...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But in the late 80s, early 90s, the sanitariums went from the military being in charge to the Ministry of Health and Medicine.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And these were, by all accounts, very progressive doctors, very concerned about their patients.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They gave them all the food and medicine they needed.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And they were like, you want to rock out?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So it was like a prison, but it was also kind of a little bubble of freedom.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And strangely enough, they soon found out that they even had power.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

A power they didn't have before.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Vladi told me this story.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

The patients, they said the sanitarium could go out every 21 days for a day trip.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And some of the freakies would go out, and just by flashing their ID cards that said they were AIDS patients, police would leave them alone.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I remember on two or three occasions that the police came after them, and one of them has a syringe.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And Vladdy says the guy took out the blood and waved it at the police.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And said, you want to come to me?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And they were afraid of that.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And so word began to spread about what life was like inside the sanitarium.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And you have to keep in mind that outside...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Cuba was falling apart.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Hard economic times in Cuba.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Almost overnight after the fall of the Soviet Union, Cuba was left without the massive subsidies it used to get.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

That meant long lines for bread, short tempers.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Vladimir Ceballos, who never actually lived inside the sanitarium, he says that people outside were going hungry and he...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He himself... I was weighing like 100 pounds, 98 pounds.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And things just kept getting worse.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

You see like a hungry, sunburned, dehydrated... 50,000 people leave Cuba.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They manage to escape on a raft and make it to the Florida Keys.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

These days, more Cubans than ever are taking the risk.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It was the big crisis, you know, in the Clinton era.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But... If you were in the sanatorium...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yeah, just being able to get milk and an egg and beans.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Bob Ariano says that that was a big motivation for a lot of kids.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yes, I'm not going to be harassed.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And yes, I also get meals.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And it went from being a couple of self-injectors, a couple of dozen self-injectors, to being hundreds.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And did the government know that this was happening?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Well, there's this Swedish documentary from the time, it's called Socialismo Muerte, and in it there's this bishop of Havana...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

His last name is Céspedes, and he says that he met some of the kids that were injecting themselves with AIDS, and that at a state dinner, he approached Fidel.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

These kids, they're injecting themselves, and Fidel... Couldn't believe it.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And then after that, in the pharmacy, they don't sell syringe anymore.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They put a law that if you inject and sell with HIV, you're going to spend eight years in prison.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But... It didn't matter.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It was like a movement.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It was like a movement.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And all of a sudden, you have all these bands forming across the island in different sanitariums.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

In the biggest one of them all, in Santiago de la Vega, Los Cocos, which is like a half hour, 45 minutes south of Havana, you have the first group that gets formed.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It's called VIH, which translates to HIV.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But then in the center of the island, in this town called Santa Clara, you had the Cuban punk band Escoria, and Escoria translates as... Scum, right?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And according to Bob, if you look back to the 80s, the people who were fleeing Cuba... The balseros, the rafters.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

One of the responses of the Cuban government were billboards that said, Que vaya la Escoria.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So to call yourself Escoria, to call yourself scum... That... Is...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And were these bands big outside the sanatorium too?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Escoria is, I mean, you can't talk about Cuban punk without, I mean, Escoria is like... So their tapes got out or something?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And what happens next?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I mean, these bands are forming, kids are self-injecting.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Does it just keep growing and growing?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

There's tape of Herson and Yohandra saying that it got to be so fashionable that kids started to think that in order to be a freaky, you had to have AIDS.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Which is, and the kids were saying that if you really wanted to be a rocker in that time, you had to have AIDS.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

There was even talk among some of the young people I met of thinking that, oh, eventually Fidel and those guys will find a cure.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But everything started to change when the first of them died.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

According to Vladi, the first kid that died in Pinar del Rio was a guy named Manuel.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

We don't know his last name or his age.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And when the second died, and when the third died, everything stopped.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

At one point in Vladi's documentary, which was made in 1994, Papo says that in two years, about 18 people died.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And they start seeing how you die, because you don't die like a...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

A normal person when they had a heart attack or anything.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

No, you transform yourself.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

A lot of them went blind.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Then they went insane.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They started getting opportunistic diseases.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

You know how AIDS works.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Did kids start saying they wish they hadn't done this?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Well, when you see Vladi's documentary and that Swedish documentary, Socialismo Muerte, which was made in 1995, you definitely see the kids having deep regrets.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

You have one of them saying, I regret this.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I regret it a million times.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And in that Swedish documentary, there's a scene towards the end where you see Papo and he's clearly sick.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He's real thin, his face is swollen.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And we see him stepping into an evangelical church.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He's wearing an Urbana t-shirt.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But he's become a fervent Christian.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He's found this community of evangelical Christians that accepts AIDS patients.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

and that he thinks that Christ is the perfect communist.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

If more communists were like the Christians, that would be perfect.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It's interesting though, because in that last video, we also see him taking English classes.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And he's saying like, you know, the other patients in the sanitarium, they're like sick like me.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They won't go out at night.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They won't rock out till the early morning.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But I'm like, this is my life.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

So he was sort of defiant to the end.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And a few months later, according to Gerson, Papo started to bleed out from his mouth and eyes.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He had a parasite in his brain.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He became violent, and he died from that disease.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

God, part of me wonders, like, is this strong and fierce, or is it just...

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And maybe fierce also.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Like, I can't figure out how to feel about this.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Yeah, well, I think it can be all those things, right?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It was dumb and stupid and immature.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And it was also nihilistic and anarchic.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And do you think in the end it had any impact?

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Well, that's hard to say.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Here's how Luis puts it, not even five years after Papo died.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Things did start to shift in Cuba.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Make of it what you will, but December 8th, 2000, Castro unveils the statue of John Lennon.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Bob Mariano and a bunch of rock musicians.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Including Will Oldham, David Pajo.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They're given permission to play a bunch of rock shows in Cuba, out in the open, and at one of those shows in Pinar del Rio.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I announced, listen, we're going to send out this next number to Papo La Bala and the Freakies.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Now, it would be impossible to draw any kind of cause and effect and say one thing led to another.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

That would be ridiculous.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But Luis says that back when the freakies were streaming into the sanatorium... Cuba wasn't changing back then.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

It started to change precisely because of a hundred gestures, big and small.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He says around Cuba at that moment, there are all of these tiny, mostly silent protests taking hold.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And then you have the maleconazo, which was like the first serious civil disobedience that Castro had in 94, where just a mob

Radiolab
Los Frikis

in Havana rose up because they were so tired of the power outages.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They were angry at their poor living conditions.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

They were leaving the city in rafts by the thousands, by the hundreds.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Castro literally had to come down to the Cuban Malecon, the beautiful seaside road that circles around Havana.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

And he literally had to talk the mob down.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

you know late 80s early 90s there's this breeding ground of discontent all over cuba and i think the self-injector movement is the best crystallization we have of that yeah it's like this sort of a thousand points of light and this is the brightest point right or the darkest point frankly right exactly

Radiolab
Los Frikis

Since this story first ran, Bob Arellano has continued traveling to Cuba to work with Latimer Ceballos on a documentary about the self-injector movement and the Cuban rock scene.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

I've stayed in touch with Gerson.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He's the self-injected punk rocker I visited in the abandoned sanatorium.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He's still living there, along with his partner, Yoandra.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He tells me that with Cuba's deep political and economic crisis, it's hard to be in a punk band.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

His town has 18-hour blackouts, and even plugging in a guitar is tough.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

But Gerson says he still thinks about Papo La Bala.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He says that in today's Cuba, Papo would be doing the same thing he did when he was alive.

Radiolab
Los Frikis

He would be finding a way to stay true to himself and keeping it metal.