Ivan Bates
Appearances
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I think it was about 14, 15 officers. Look, they were robbing people. At the end of the day, the system has to work fairly. I always also like to say this. That's not who the Baltimore City Police Department is. That's who a small segment of those officers were. And those officers who break that oath, they need to be in jail. because the community needs to know that they can rely on the police.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Thank you. I appreciate it.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And that's why that was so important to me. We have to do things. I'm a big believer of trying to do them the right way. We may not always accomplish it, but we have to try to do it the right way. And for me, that's what that case really exemplified, you know, and look, I was getting beat. It was funny. I would go to court during the day. You're terrible. We hate you. You're a terrible person.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
You're right. You represent those corrupt cops. And then at night I would go to the jail, the same people who are yelling, screaming at me were at the jail visiting their loved ones. And so, you know, it was such an interesting, that's why I said you had to let it go in one ear and out the other.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
representing a police officer that you know is innocent and then going after officers that you knew were guilty. Look, let's be crystal clear. My client was who they thought he was. If they would have just taken their time to get him the proper way, he would still be in federal prison because he would have been what the feds call an armed career criminal.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So he would probably do almost life sentence. So when you look at it from that vantage point, the system has to be fair.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
You know, I think look, when you're I think being a black male, I look at things from a different lens sometimes. but I also think being a criminal defense attorney, I represented those communities. I go to church in those communities. I lived in a number of those communities. A lot of clients are from those communities. So I knew their family. I knew their mothers. I knew their grandmothers.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And I know the remember when I came into office, we had eight years in a row, three hundred and forty three hundred plus murders. The year before I got here was three hundred forty five murders. And so when I came into office, I said, look, if you're going to carry an illegal handgun, bring your toothbrush. See, here we have in the state of Maryland, you know.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
What's called we can invoke a mandatory minimum if you're a felon and you have an illegal handgun, you can we can get five years without the possibility of parole. So for me to say that, I said that because I wanted to speak the language of my former clients to let them know if you're carrying illegal handguns, I'm sending you to jail.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Our first two years, we sent one thousand seven hundred and twenty three individuals to jail. Our murder rate dropped from 345 to 201 murders. Right now, as of today, we had 29 murders as of today in Baltimore City, where last year, this time we had 43. Now remember, that was our best year where we had 201. We're headed in the right direction.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
What I know is that people, doesn't matter if you're black, white, purple, green, people do not wanna be around violence. And what we've tried to do, we've tried to go after the right people, meaning those violent repeat offenders. Look, if you're gonna perpetrate violence, oh, I will definitely give you the life sentence that you want. You ask for it, I give it to you. But I tell people,
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
There's no harder conversation to have than with a mother who's lost her son to gun violence. Her only son, she worked two jobs, and he graduated from high school barely, and he's out here. But what is he doing? He's dabbling, selling marijuana. These fools rob him and they kill him.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I mean, I would much rather deal with them and put them in jail for five years without the possibility of parole than give them that life sentence. Look, I'm a big believer of second chances, but I also believe that people pay a lot in taxes. People deserve to have a society and a government that works for them and that puts them first.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And so for me, you know, some of those values I think that I got from the South, some of those values my father, a lot of them gave me growing up. I just really believe that when you do have that opportunity to do right, look, I'm not supposed to be in this seat. If you look at statistics, I'm not. So since I am here, let me do right.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Let me do something because my daughter, you know, I want her to be proud of me one day. My father, I've been able to move him from the South up here. He's proud of me. Those are things that when I go into community, When I ran three years ago, I would die for anybody to know my name. So if you know my name, you're going to vote for me. Now, everywhere I go, people know my name.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
They shake my hand. They thank me. Because at the end of the day, I'm here for a short period. The state's attorney for Baltimore City is going to be here before I am and way after I leave. What can I do to make people's lives better? And if I do a good job, then I feel, you know, I've been blessed. I had a phenomenal career.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I made more money than I ever thought I was going to make because I didn't become a lawyer to get rich. But I made a great, I had a great living. I've been able to provide for my family. But now let me give something back to the community because I'm a big believer. At Howard, I remember we learned lift as you climb. And so that's from Maya Angelou.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I believe it's my job and duty to lift as I climb and to have a better community. So I do recognize people believe more what I say and do. Our police department is under consent decree. They've done a phenomenal job showing the community what's going on. We're working collectively in partnership. And so I just feel that we're moving Baltimore in the right direction.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Well, look, I think, first of all, I've been truly blessed because I work with some phenomenal people, some great lawyers. I'm also a member of the National District Attorneys Association. I'm a member of the board. The one thing that I do recognize You, and it's beautiful because this organization has never made it about politics. I could care less if you're a Republican.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I could care less if you're a Democrat. We are here to protect the public. Doesn't matter whether you're R or D. What matters is we're working collectively. I think sometimes though, some of the laws that different General Assemblies may pass sometimes, some of the policies that some of the office holders sometimes think that they're meant to be helpful, They're actually hurtful.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
You know, I think we can't get very cute with prosecuting. We prosecute is pretty simple. If you break the law, then you file the law and you're held accountable. Now, does that mean you go to jail forever? On some cases, yes. But on some cases, no. You have to have the discretion.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
You know, I definitely will. I've had a pretty unique view. My father was in the military, so I moved from location to location. I remember in eighth grade, I grew up in Hampton, Virginia, and we had a test. And on my eighth grade test, I said I wanted to be a lawyer, but they came back and said I wasn't smart enough and I should be a brick mason. So I kind of allowed that to drive who I was.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
But I think when you constantly see crime happening and you want to look the other way because you want to make excuses for an individual's background and upbringing, that's unfair to other people who are in that community or struggling. I want everybody, you know, I don't focus on the school systems. I don't focus on anything other than public safety.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I think you also have to make sure you make the police your partner. You have to make the U.S. attorneys and the feds your partner. I could care less if we have a huge takedown, the U.S. attorneys out there saying, look at me, look at me, look at me. at the end of the day, my community, that I'm in Baltimore City benefits.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And so for that, I think we have to put, you know, I will be honest, the prosecutors that I'm working with in NDAA, we don't have those ego issues. We talk about a lot of positive things. One of the things I think we need to do, we need to go back into schools, law schools, and let people realize being a prosecutor is cool. We need to get them to be a prosecutor.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Everybody wants to run to the defense side. I tell people all the time,
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
i loved being a defense attorney but my heart has always been a prosecutor defense attorney was transactional i it was a business decision and i was able to build a business i learned a great deal it was great but learning how to put together a case learning how to really understand victims and what fighting for victims victims don't have voices in the system as long as you put a victim and the victims first
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Victims are pretty resilient individuals. They will listen and they are understandable. Sometimes they're going to be disappointed. But if you inform them and you do the right thing by them, you'll be able to make change.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Can we go now? Can I go now?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Well, a couple of things changed. One, when I made that statement, it was right after Judge Welch had ruled that there was ineffective assistance of counsel. So I had a peek in terms of what the record said. Then you had the appeals and you had what then was the Maryland Court of Special Appeals, which is now a Supreme Court issue. I think it was a hundred and some odd page ruling.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Once you read that ruling, it kind of opens your eyes a little bit. But once I got into the seat and we go through the transcripts and you read things, look, Christina Gutierrez was his lawyer. Christina Gutierrez, when I was a young prosecutor, you were like, oh God, I hope to God she doesn't take this case. She was that phenomenal of a lawyer.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And then you also have the opportunity to talk to Kevin Urich. Look, I was in the state's attorney's office when Adnan's case came through. I remember sitting in the courtroom when he had the bail review, where half the courtroom was the Muslim community, half the courtroom was the Asian community. The judge I clerked for was David Mitchell, who did the bail review hearing. So I remember that.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
But I also remember things that Kevin Yerkes said that registered with me. We had an open file policy where our state's attorney, Mrs. Jessamy, said, look, especially homicide, Don Giblin was one of the heads of homicide. Just tell them to come look at your file. And if it's in there, who cares? Because we're going to win anyway. That's before body camera and everything else.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So things like that made sense to me. Once I began to look at that, once I began to look at the transcript, Wanda heard who was the judge. She used to always, she was a good friend. She retired and she did a lot with me in terms of my campaign. And we would talk about the case, read the transcript, read the transcript, the standard transcript. Well, guess what? You got to read the transcript.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Um, I eventually went to the United States Army after high school. And I never forget when they sit in this big room, we're in the Hampton Coliseum, they said where I was going United States Army, and everybody was laughing at me. And so I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go to college one day. So I went to the United States Army, and I had a lieutenant who just finished college.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And so in reading the transcript, there were things that just, I realized, like for instance, you're looking at the cell phone evidence. The cell phone evidence was clearly mischaracterized. You know, one of the things, and Alex, I heard the podcast, you said steam was coming from my ears. You know what? I wish I could take credit for that.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I will say this, and I'm going to give you background information that nobody else has. I prayed to God this case would not come back on my life and in my lap. I said, Lord, please don't let this case come back. But you know what? God sent it back to me for a reason. And so when he did, I put together the people who I think are extremely intelligent. And one was a gentleman.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I'm just going to give the last names. I asked them to give their first name because part of that, sometimes people get angry. Like I had threats on my life because of my ruling. And so I'm the elected, I'm used to that, but I like to protect my people. So we'll call one T. I had T, I had a C, and I had another C. And that was my team.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And these were some of the smartest individuals, smartest lawyers you'd ever want to meet. And we talked everything through. We talked about the pros. We talked about the cons. We realized we needed a good look through the file.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
We realized we were not going to reinvestigate, but we did a review of their investigation because we were not necessarily here to say, hey, we're doing this reinvestigation, but we want to do a review. We took our time and we went through everything we met. Probably at first it was. every other week, then it was every week, then it was sometimes two, three times a week.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
We talked everything through. Then one of the individuals, a phenomenal writer, and they put a draft and then people added to that draft bits and pieces. Then you had T, he is a phenomenal appellate lawyer. He specifically looked at the cell phone information evidence. When he looked at it, we were like, wait, wait, wait, what? And we looked at it because it totally was not what anybody said.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So we had to go three, four, five times because we're like, wait, wait, okay. Once you understood that. And so we're moving the right direction. We're working on this. We probably spent six to eight weeks planning this out. We knew where we were going to go probably a month into this, probably by end of November, December, we kind of had a feeling where we were going to go.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
But the thing that was the total to me, it sealed the deal 1000% was when we were able to find on the drive, a document that talked to, I will call her SA, the speaker of the note. And when we were able to see the memorandum, in one of the side review teams folder on the computer all by themselves. I knew exactly what we had to do. And so for me, I also had that, like, I took some time.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I thought about, I go to the gym a lot. I spent a lot of time in the gym thinking about what to do, how to do this. And it all, once again, came back to Alicia. I tell people, yeah, easy part was like, yeah, you know, this is what we're going to do. But that's not who I am. I make mistakes. I will say this.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And then I had a Sergeant Major who had fought in Vietnam, been there 30 years. And I didn't understand why the Lieutenant was the one giving us the directions. And he clearly did not know where he was taking us. And I need the Sergeant Major because I felt like the Sergeant Major is going to make sure we lived. And so he said, look, you know, you're smart. You need to go to college.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Based on what we saw, we did the only thing that we could do being the elected state's attorney, and that's to uphold the law. And that, to be honest, was easy. Now, people are going to be mad. It is what it is. When you become a politician, you're not going to please everybody. But at the end of the day, if I lose this job because I did the right thing, I'm okay with that.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
But I wouldn't not be okay doing the wrong thing, sending someone into the courtroom. And I went into the courtroom and handled the hearing. And I have no evidence. And there's nothing I can do. I'm never going to do that. And so for me... We did everything the right way, and we thought we wanted to let the world know exactly what everything was going on.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Well, When I ran for state's attorney the first time against Ms. Mosby, the thing to me that was very important was that
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
people just didn't have an understanding a clue about the criminal justice system and the criminal justice system for the average person is a mystery they see it on television but they really didn't understand it i did feel that we owed it to everybody to really understand what the evidence was that we saw and i felt that we needed to write and make sure the record was clear i will also tell you this we did it the right way in the sense that
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
You know, I consulted a lawyer from AGC who was a former attorney grievance lawyer counsel. So I consulted them to make sure that we were not defaming and within the rules. But we also consulted a lawyer to make sure we weren't defaming anybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
After that, I think that really changed my life. I was tired of digging ditches, taking orders from everybody. I applied, I went to Howard University in Washington, DC, loved it, loved it, loved it. It gave me what I needed to go ahead and be successful. I just need to have belief in myself. Once I did that, it taught me a lot about who I was, my history, and Thurgood Marshall.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
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The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I'd heard of Thurgood Marshall. It was a blurb in my life, but Howard University made him someone that I looked up to, him and Vernon Jordan, and I wanted to be a lawyer. I went to William & Mary, College of William & Mary. I graduated. I worked and clerked out in Los Angeles for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund when all the craziness went on with OJ Simpson. I was out there that summer.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
i then you know i passed the bar i was blessed passed the first time and i clerked for a judge in baltimore named david mitchell i moved to baltimore because i had an aunt who lived here was 75 and didn't have any children i wanted to go back to california to work for the naacp legal defense fund or someone but my mother asked me to come take care of my aunt i was his law clerk the state's attorney's office and the public defenders both reached out to him about giving me a job and he told me i was gonna go be a prosecutor
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
You need to understand and learn your craft. It doesn't matter if you're on the defense side, the prosecution side, learn your craft, take the opportunity. You know, you have to get in the trenches. There's no, if you're going to be a trial lawyer, there are no shortcuts. You're going to go in court. You're going to lose. but learn from your losses.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And so I was a state's assistant state's attorney in Baltimore City for six years. I did all types of cases. From there, I became a criminal defense attorney. I had bills in the state's attorney's office, paid peanuts. Those law school bills were pretty expensive. Those loans came to do. And I loved it. You know, I had a case where I argued with my former my former boss in front of the U.S.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
If you're a defense attorney, go to the jail and visit your clients. Spend that time. If they tell you something, look into there and file those briefs and file those motions, and they probably aren't gonna win, but still file them. If you're a prosecutor, remember your victims, understanding what they're going through. Learn your craft.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
but when you learn it don't forget and treat people the way that you would want to be treated your family member god forbid if something happened to my father i would be a i would be a wreck but i would need that prosecutor so i could trust them that if they did not have the evidence to get whether it's first degree murder then or second degree murder i would be able to trust them that they gave everything they had to getting the conviction to hold this individual accountable
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And I think when you do that and you treat people the way you want to be treated, you do with kindness and empathy. That good things work out for you. I think when you're chasing money, it's never going to be a good thing. I never in my career chased money. I was blessed, but doors opened. I just happened to be the right place at the right time, but I was prepared when my number was called.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
If you learn your craft, you treat people the way you want to be treated, your number will be called and it's up to you to be ready.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
All the time.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Thank you. You know, it meant a lot to me when I heard you two say that you felt that, you know, we'd given you belief back in the criminal justice system. That was our hope and goal that people would see that prosecutors do things the right way. And prosecutors are the ones who look in the old West, they wore the white hat.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
We still want to wear the white hat to do the right thing by the community. So thank you. I really appreciate what you're doing. I really appreciate listening to you. You guys do a really, really good job. So thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And I'm Brett. And I'm Ivan Bates.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Supreme Court. So in the last cases that Sandra Day O'Connor listened to, I then started my own firm, had a lot of great cases. I represented Sergeant Alicia White and Freddie Gray Matter. I also played a major role in exposing the Gun Trace Task Force and the corrupt police officers. I ran in 2018 to be the state's attorney of Baltimore City against Marilyn Mosby and I lost.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I needed to lose because there's a lot that I needed to grow and mature so I could be prepared for that position. Freddie Gray and being Alicia Sergeant White's attorney showed me that when the world is against you and you feel the laws on your side, trust yourself and follow the law and you have to do the right thing. And then I ran again in 2022.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
A lot of that had to do with my eight-year-old daughter back then when she was six. A six-year-old daughter and I wanted her to play in Baltimore City. Either I was going to move out the city into the county like so many people or else I was going to do something. So I went back to the office that I love and I've been there since January 3rd, 2023. I love this job.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
You know, it really did. You know, people think about difficult things in life and, you know, yeah, we had a difficult decision in Adnan, but it was nothing. nothing like representing Sergeant Alicia White. You know, I went to Howard University, HBCU. So a lot of my friends, when they found out I represented Sergeant Alicia White, boy, I got called every name in the book by my friends.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And so I was able to figure out who my true friends were. But for me, it was very important because I'd watched the criminal justice system treat a number of African-American men, the negative. But also, I didn't think that it was fair that we would treat a police officer negative just because they wore a blue uniform. And so for me, I really believe that the legal system and justice is blind.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I talked, never forget, I got that call, I think May 1st. And at the same time, Marilyn Mosby, the former state's attorney, was announcing the charges on the War Memorial steps. I get a call and this woman is crying. And I listened to her and I told her to come in as Sergeant Alicia White. I asked her a story. She tells me a story, I ask her a story. Now I'm asking questions.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
She gives me, you know, more information. Then my law partner and I would go in the room. I said, man, if we take this, it's going to change our life. People are going to hate us. And so, you know, I explained that this was an important case, but it's just something I felt that, It wasn't going to be handled fairly. And I'm really big about being fair.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And I just felt that if we stood up for Sergeant Lisa White, I could care less if she was an officer. I could care less if she was black, white, purple, green. I just felt that the legal the criminal justice system must treat everybody fairly. And that's my big thing. I learned more about myself. I learned more about police tactics, the way police investigate cases.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
the way the police look at cases. I've learned more about expert witnesses. That case taught me more in my legal career than probably any other case I ever had. And we didn't go to trial. We prepared to go to trial, but we never went to trial.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Oh, well, the state realized they were never going to get a win, so they dismissed it. Then the police department was going to bring her up on charges, and they realized they were never going to get a win. Once they saw the evidence, they dismissed it. The problem here is, to me, it's very similar to Adnan. You decide as the prosecutor the outcome before you look at the evidence.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And they decided the outcome without understanding the evidence that it would take. They didn't realize that you have to hold a police officer accountable when they do something wrong. But you also have to look at how police officers are trained. What did they do? What was their role? And just because something terrible happened, policing sometimes can be ugly.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
But that does not mean that the officers did anything wrong. Always try to remember that. Because the way you look at police cases is totally different than the way you look at the average citizen's case. At the end of the day, she was vindicated. I think it's pretty interesting that myself, Catherine Flynn is one of my deputies in the office. She represented Officer Nero.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Tom Donnelly is one of my other deputies. He wrote our brief. He argued the Parker case, the Porter case, and argued the motion to new venue. They were part of my team for Adnan. And they were also, we all worked together with this here, with Freddie Gray. You know, it was a very hard experience, but it was a great experience. One of the best legal experiences I had in my life.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
It totally shaped who I am.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Yeah, you know, for those of you that may not know, I was a defense attorney for almost 20 years. And, you know, you represent the regular criminal element. But there were some that kept telling me the same thing. There was one particular officer, Wayne Jenkins, he's stealing my money. You know, it was sort of used to be like this.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Okay, you took my drugs, you took my money, now you're supposed to let me go. You're going to take my drugs and my money and you're going to charge me? So he kind of changed the quote unquote, the game. Like, you know, to be honest, Baltimore has had its fair share of corruption. And so you have clients telling you that.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And so, you know, I had a couple of rumbles of Wayne Jenkins in the past and I was beginning. He always was a step ahead of me in all those cases. We had won all the the suppression motions. It was almost like if you knew I was going to do, he was always prepared. He won a lot of cases that way.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Wow. Thank you, Alice. Thank you, Brett. First of all, I'm just honored to be here. You know, your podcast, a lot of people listen to it. I've had opportunity to listen to it. You are very intelligent. I love the way you break down the cases. I love the way that you look at it from a prosecutor's point of view. I love the way that you educate the listener.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
But Wayne kind of got in trouble, had to sit on the sidelines with the previous state's attorney, Greg Bernstein. When Miss Mosby came in, she pretty much cleared him and allowed him to testify. Once he began to testify, he was in leadership position. He began to lock up a number of individuals, make these great cases.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
The same time I was doing Freddie Gray's, the same time I was going to the jails to talk to individuals to see what Wayne Jenkins was doing. We had begun to get body camera footage and his unit was the test case. Well, on this one particular piece of body camera footage, I saw that they stopped my client. They pretty much looked like they planted a gun.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
They went to his house, they broke in, they searched it. And so I tried to get the prosecutor to say, hey, they can't do this. And the prosecutor told me, yeah, we could care less what they did. We're worried about the gun in the car.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And I try to explain that you don't ride around with a gun in your visor because gravity, you're eventually going to hit the brakes and it's going to hit you upside your head. And so he may be many things, but riding around this with a gun. So they didn't believe me. They didn't worry about the video. So I took it upon myself to say, you know what, I'm going to do something.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
I would just go into the jails and try to take these guys cases for half price. I began to take them. I began to understand what's going on. I had one humongous, one big client. Look, he was I would call the poster child who should be federal. He had a previous manslaughter and a previous drug kingpin conviction. And he was, quote unquote, one of the main drug dealers. Wayne and them stop him.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
They then, the stop was going, they stopped him going the wrong way up a one-way street. And when they stopped him, they get his keys, go to his house. Next thing you know, they recover eight kilos of cocaine and they get a hundred and some odd thousand out of a safe. I go to see him. He was like, they robbed me. I had 300 some thousand in my safe and I had 18 kilos and this is what they did.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So I said, okay. And so, you know, for me, once again, I'm all worried about the law. When you defense attorney, don't worry about what's right and wrong. You worry about the law. But for me, that was what I had heard from everybody. I won the motion to suppress and it was interesting because when I won it, we filed a Franks motion and Wayne came and testified.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
When he testified, he almost threw the case. I've had probably 20 motion to suppress of Wayne It's the first time he's like, yeah, his window was down. I put my hand in. And when I put my hand and head in, I did see the drugs on the floorboard.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So I'm thinking, wait, wait, you're actually admitting to breaking the cartilage and turns the window and you put your head in the car and you admit that you were going the one way, the wrong way, but one way. And he probably couldn't have gone past you. So why would he admit that? But he knew that I knew that there was a safe that three had 300,000 and they only turned in 100.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So he wanted to ensure that we did not put that in the in front of the judge. So we win the case. And I tell Wayne, look, I'm here and you're just robbing people. Wayne, you need to stop. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. Like we had almost we probably by that time had 40, 50 cases against each other, but 30 involving the gun trace task force.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
i tell my client the feds are going to reach out either to prosecute him or to make him a witness they reached out about three months later i had a accordion four folder of not only that case but probably six or seven other cases because i was a prosecutor so i put my case together like a prosecutor and when i did that i gave it to leo wise the us attorney he used a number of my clients um i convinced them to go before the grand jury they gave the information they testified
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So I want to thank you for what you two do.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
and Wayne Jenkins is doing 25 years in federal prison. Everybody, every officer who was charged, all nine or 10 of them were all found guilty and they all went to prison.