Isaac Aptaker
Appearances
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing season two, episode 15, The Car. On the day of Jack's funeral, we see the history of the Pearson family as seen through their family car, the Wagoneer. Plus, Rebecca finds solace with an old friend who reminds her how strong she is in the toughest of circumstances. Mandy Moore, Chris Sullivan.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
We'll be right back with more That Was Us.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Let me ask you this, Mandy Moore, because this is also from the top of the episode. You guys go in. You need a new family car, right? You guys agree that we're not going to let them gouge us. We're going to get something sensible. It's going to be fine. You see the Wagoneer. The Wagoneer is shiny. It's beautiful.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Kids love it or not. My man Mel immediately tries to give it to you, like, dude, we're not in the market for the Wagoneer, right? And Mel's like, all right, well, we got some used stuff outside. Everybody goes outside. You're looking at the car. The kids jump into the Wagoneer. Jack looks back, sees the kids in the Wagoneer. He's like, yo, Mel, can I talk to you in your office?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And Rebecca's like, wait a minute. Well, aren't we not going to, you know, get the used car? And he's like, just, you know, we're going to have a conversation. You're like, but babe, dah, dah, dah. And so this is also part of the transition too. Like I think, and you know, it's the 80, 80s? It's the 80s right now. But it's sort of the transition of this interesting thing.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And I hearken back to a time when I used to go on road trips with my family and everybody would say, like my uncle would get out or my aunt and they'd be like, everybody stay in the car while they go to handle the transactions or like get in the hotel rooms and everything. And it's like, you are with the kids in terms of that, right? And I'm curious, like, cause you're a modern woman.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Mandy Moore, you're strong. I almost call you strong black woman, but you strong woman. I'm curious just in terms of like playing Rebecca and sort of like finding the sort of like, well, I'm relegated to this, but Jack, oh goodness. Are you sure, Jack? To like, from that to like, did you see that as part of the arc? Was it a...
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
frustrating thing or you're just like, no, this is how their relationship is gone.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Okay, so we had a couple of family cars. but it's family like outside of the extended family. My mom had a Toyota Corolla that was hers. Then she gave to my older sister. My older sister gave to her, our cousin, our first cousin. And then our first cousin gave it to her younger sister. The Corolla was in our family in total. 30 years. Because that's how the Japanese do it.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I was going to say, that's quite an endorsement. They don't F around. But the car that we had in our house, so when I was born, or maybe, yeah, my dad had, well, I wasn't born, he was in 1979. He had a 1979 pink Eldorado Cadillac with pink leather interior. Vinyl top, eight track plan. Michael McDonald was his favorite. So I heard a lot of that. And that was the jam.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
But I only had that for a little while until we had, This is very African-American of me. We moved to a Fleetwood Cadillac, right? And the Fleetwood was in our, that's the car that I learned to drive on. So when dad passed away, mom has the car and we shared that car all the way through high school. And she had it through college, et cetera, probably had it for about 14, 16 years.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Side note, real quick, I'm gonna let you finish your story, because when I found out that you got nominated for your first Emmy Award, you were working with your dad on a car in the garage, and I told you that you had gotten nominated. You're like, what? Yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, and then we sorted it out at the end of the show. That's awesome. Yeah. So wait, let's talk about a little bit of the show. You mean this is us? This is why I do this. You mean this is us? That's the one that I was talking about. Let's talk about it. There is, so there's flashes.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Weirdo Yankovic was a big deal. Still is, man. He still is. Thank you. I apologize.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I apologize. And it's so funny too, because it's the bridge and you're like, oh, I can't look at the bridge. And he holds your hand and he's like, guys, maybe we just give mom a little bit of quiet. But Randall starts talking about, do you know what the fear of bridges is called?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I can't remember what it's called.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
No, agoraphobia is like fear of public spaces, whatever. Yeah, exactly.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It was great.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
They went for it with gusto, too.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And it was so, just the interest, just seeing you, like, it was because I know you, right? And you're a wonderful actor. I was like, Mandy Moore's really acting. Like, she's scared to go across the screen.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Listen, just putting it out there, we know that you've gone through so much, Amanda Lee Moore, like so frigging much. And I just want to know, you and your family,
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I want to talk about like, but just sort of flashing between the two timelines. I want to take one timeline at a time. So maybe we do, we either do the funeral timeline or the one beyond that.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
All right, great. He also has these one-on-ones with the kids, or at least he has a one-on-one with Kate and he has a one-on-two with Kevin and Randall, right? The Kevin and Randall one is he's teaching Randall how to drive a car. Yeah. Randall's very, you know, cautious to begin with. Kev's in the backseat like, yo, man, are we going to get to wherever we need to go anytime soon?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
He's like, hey, that's my first time behind the wheel. Just give me a second. And then they just start razzing each other. It's like, you're still gonna be 40 living in their parents' house or whatever. And he's like, at least I will have enjoyed the affections of a woman's body or something like that, you know? And they just start messing with each other.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And then Randall almost gets into an accident and like could have been really, really costly. And both of them at the same time are like, oh, we shouldn't have done that.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Dad's bum. And Jack is like, get out. Okay. And he's like, you can walk home. Like it's five miles. He's like, I don't care. He's home. He's working on the car, whatnot. They walk back and they are truly apologetic. Like you have that look of like, you know, maybe I messed up. They're like, no, no, we messed up. We're sorry. It's never going to happen again.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Then Jack breaks into like, you know, me and my brother, when we were your age, we had each other's back, man. Like, I can't understand it. And then you see them both go like.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
He never talks about Nikki, you know what I'm saying? It's like, what's there to talk about? You know, he went to the war, he died, that's that. But when we were your age, and I love how, like, Milo's like, look, yeah, I don't, but I need to make this point. This is how important this point is. Totally, totally. You know, because there's going to come a point he starts to talk to everybody.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Eventually, he says it to Rebecca earlier, right? Like, you know, you're going to be around longer than I'm going to be around, right? And he tells you at the tree, like, I just don't want to be in the ground. Let me be out in nature. Like, that would be something that would be nice for me, right? He tells the fellas, I'm not going to be around all the time.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And you're going to be able to look back on this time in your life. And it's just going to be the two of you and your sister that know what you guys went through together. Like, you guys need to start to have each other's back because I can't do it. Forever. Right. He has the same conversation when he's talking to Kate, who's ditching school to go and meet Atlantis Morissette. Atlantis Morissette.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yes, yes. To see Atlantis Morissette. But he calls her Atlantis, which is really funny. He does some good dad stuff in that whole scene, right? Because even when Atlantis starts playing, like in my 49-year-old ears, I was like, he's not going to like this music. Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Most music that hits the zeitgeist does so because it connects with youth and what youth are going through at that time. You know what I'm saying? So it's very specific. Springsteen's not connecting with the Zeitgeist now, but he did when he was that. You know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That's why Pink Pony Club is such a hit, right? When we were 13 to 20.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So she's going to go see Lattice. Nobody ever comes to their town. So she's like, you're going to take me back to school? He's like, no, I'm going to take you to the record store so you can see this girl. And she's like, great, great, great, great, great. And in the conversation, she plays a little Alanis. He's like, it's okay. Let me play some real music for you.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And my African-Americanist did not recognize Springsteen immediately, but then they sort of referenced it. And I was like, okay, I dig Springsteen. And they're sort of vibing off of music together. And he says, this is something that you should really consider. You know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Like you have a gift and I can't remember how the whole thing goes, but he has something again about, I'm not gonna be here. all the time, doesn't he, in that conversation? I believe so, yeah. But just sort of supporting her and giving her the wind underneath her sails to say that this is something okay for you to pursue. Yeah. Right?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And sometimes it takes that encouragement for us who are in the arts or whatnot. We had this conversation. You said your family was with you from Jump Street. They were. You guys were supportive or whatnot. But if you haven't seen anybody else do it in your family, it can feel so far away and ethereal, like how does this even happen? But somebody saying like, hey,
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
you have a talent for it because she winds up telling him like, I'm starting to write my own stuff a little bit, you know? And like, I don't know if it was a conversation that she would have with mom.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
But also like competition, like you do it and like, I don't want to hear how you do it because it's just sort of something I want to keep to myself. But she shares it with dad and he's like, yeah, this is something that you should consider, right?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Right, right, right, right.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It is. Side note, I have these conversations with my fellas who will bicker with each other from time to time or whatever for your difference, but they bicker. And I was like, fellas, you guys are the greatest gift to each other that you will ever have in life, right? So like, if you can actually pay attention to that instead of missing it, like life's gonna keep going, right?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You can do it together or you can do it sort of like messing with each other.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah. I think it's like Chinese water torture. Like eventually it's gonna make its way into the thing. It'll permeate, yeah. Right? But you kind of have to repeat it. How often do you torture them?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Like, you know, it'll probably be something that happens on a quarterly basis, like where they'll have a blow up. I'm like, hey man, this is your little brother. Or hey man, this is your big brother. Like, I don't know why you guys are going at each other like this, but you really are all that you have. Like once mom and I are gone, you know?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Is it one of those things for the fellas, because they're young, what's the resiliency like for youth versus adults?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah. But maybe, I don't know, maybe it's because they are so concerned with their connection to us that there's a vying for like- There's a competition thing?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You know how much Ryan Michelle would love to feel like that sort of attention?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
All my kids don't like me. She's convinced of that, but they love her.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
There's a few things that happen in the course of that day with the kids. Like, you see Randall sort of sit in the front seat of the car on the way to the funeral. Yeah. And you see Kev clock it for like a half a second. Yeah. Right? Like, oh, you're sitting in the front seat now, right? And throughout the day, Randall's like, mom, we should probably get to the thing to go to the repass, whatever.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And he's like, okay, yeah, sure, sure, sure. And then he's there, he's greeting all the people saying like, oh, thank you so much for coming. Dad, really appreciate it. Even before Kev's having a tough time with his tie. He's like, I can help you with your tie if you want to. And he's like, no, I don't need to wear one. He's like, you're not going to wear a tie on dad's funeral.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And so there's this moment that Kev has at the, after, what's it called?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Thank you. And he sees Jack's watch.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And my man is like, yo, who told you you could get the watch? He's like, I asked mom and she said it was okay. I like doing, I like doing Niles' watch. His deep voice. I asked mom and she said it was okay. He's like, dude, you don't just get to become like the man of the house all of a sudden. Like, who do you think you are? And it's, it's,
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
an interesting thing to see because it's a lifelong thing that we know plays itself out into the future, right? On the other side is Kate saying like, why did dad die to mom? And you explain like the smoke inhalation and everything. And you're like, so he died because he went back in for the dog. And you're like, I don't know. Like, you're not making it a black and white thing. Sure. Right?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And she's like, no, it is a black and white thing because none of us were in the house as long as he was. And we were all alive. And he went back in for this dog. Now he's dead. Right? And you can see she's having...
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Exactly.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So I guess we'll never know.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
There's something that somebody said, and this is not a plug, but this is interesting, because on Paradise, I have this big argument with the president. And somebody on my social said, if there's one thing Dan Fogelman's going to do is have Sterling Brown argue with the white man. And so this is...
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
This was just the younger version of us, but it made me think of the argument that comes in season four.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Lord have mercy.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
We get there, we get there. That joint was. So it was just the echo of that. I saw the foundation of it coming.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Louie the dog. Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That's right. So before we get to that final scene though, we get to the funeral and then like the, how do you call Dr. K's function within our show? Who, what is he to us? He's the wise old owl that like Kevin makes fun of for William to be, but he really is- The Greek chorus. that dude. Yeah, he is. Every time I see his frickin' face, I just get a little like, come on, man, give me something.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I know you about to give me something.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Because you thought he was fearless.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So two things are interesting to me because we'll get to Vegas is our next episode. And the sort of contrast between Jack and Randall, I find very fascinating where Randall almost over shares his fears with his wife, if such a thing is possible. And maybe like in terms of like, she almost feels burdened sometimes by like his constant sort of thing. And Jack is the absolute opposite.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And it's like how we become the parents or the people that we are. Sometimes it is in direct correlation to emulate or to sort of like go in the opposite direction. That was a thought that I had in that moment. Also, just you sort of being able to lean, can we just sit here for a moment and just lay on somebody? Like, it's almost like you knew that
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You can't put that on the kids necessarily right now, because they have their own things that they're sort of grappling with, right? Like you have those moments as parents, and I know you guys are young, but you're just like, oh, I just want my kid to come and hug me. Like you think it's always supposed to go in that direction. Sometimes you really do, but that's not the moment.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And having somebody to just do that, to hold you. Such a beautiful moment.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah. So let's go earlier because we're going to go to the scene at the tree in a second, though. But in the car, a couple of things happen because Jack is saying like, we flashback 10 days, eight, nine days, whatever it is. He's like, I got a secret for you guys on Saturday. I'm going to do something fun. You're like, what is it, Jack? He's like, oh, don't worry about it.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Because Jack don't be telling nobody nothing.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I'll tell you when I'm ready to tell you. Like it's less than a week ago, but he'd already bought the tickets. And so there's two things that happened. Like he was drinking coffee in the thing. His coffee cup is still in the car right there. So like the little echoes of like just a second ago, my husband was drinking that. And early in the episode, you saw the Springs thing tickets, right?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So you go ahead, you take the kids to the infamous scene where the plane keeps going. Go for it.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
17 year old boys, man.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Just be that.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Say the part about going over the bridge.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Because at the end, you guys get in the car. You're going to the thing. You have to cross the same bridge that you're going to the Weird Al Yankovic concert.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you see Rebecca take a... See, I'll be watching you, Mandy Moore. You see Rebecca take this breath and just sort of be like, this is what we're doing. And you see that Wagoneer with its front headlight out, right? It may be a little bruised because we'll come to what we hear Jack ultimately say to Mel in that conversation that everybody else was outside of.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
He's like, look, Mel, I see my family in this car. Hold on, let me jump. Your dad had this way of ruining movies. That's at the tree. He had this way of ruining movies. It's like, as soon as it came on, he knew who was gonna end up with who, he knew who killed whoever. It's like, he always knew. It's like, and you were talking about this mythic figure who just had this sort of like sight, right?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And so like all those conversations about, Kate, I think you should do music. Fellas, I think you guys should have each other's back. It's like, I see it, right?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You say that like, he always has a way of doing it. So then, The car goes over, like it's a beautiful moment, but like him talking to Mel about what he needs for his family. And this is where Brown gets a little verklempt, honestly, because it's such a simple thing, but such a powerful thing.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
The pause button should be hit for a second, right? Yeah. Yeah.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You see, he's like, they're gonna have some spills. They're gonna have some dings. You know what I'm saying? Like it's gonna go through some things, but I just, I need them to be safe. I need them to be taken care of. I need my kids to be okay. I need my family to be okay. So Mel, I can't afford this car, but you're gonna help me figure it out.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Beautiful.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Well, let's have a little chat with them.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
We'll take a break. We'll be back right after this with more That Was Us. That Was Us.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
We had it all zipped up.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Wow. The origin is that a beautiful writer who is no longer with us named Jazz Waters had this idea, which was to sort of tell an episode sort of based around the family car and tell the life of a family through their car. And she had this incredible idea and it was so relatable to all of us. I mean, I think everyone, so many of us had that memory of like your parents buy the new car.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And no matter what the car is, like in my childhood, it was like an old Volvo, you know, but it just seems like the promise of all of these adventures and that kind of thing and that excitement. was so visceral for so many of us. And we just thought it was such a beautiful, relatable idea that she had and that that was it.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And then, and we loved the idea like that, you know, the previous episode is so emotionally explosive and sort of punches you in the face with how intense it is. And we felt like collectively our audience would need that exhale that you need when somebody dies. And that was sort of-
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Sterling K. Brown. It is so good to see you guys.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That was sort of the idea that like, let's all take, and it's still a really emotional episode, but let's all take that breath together and let's kind of mourn together and sort of make a plan to move forward, both for this family and sort of also for the series.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Well, let me ask this question because you guys were talking about the fulcrum and about sort of Rebecca taking, like being in the driver's seat, sort of like steering things forward. Because that is a, that's a huge sort of turn in our show. Because I think it's almost like when you watch, are you guys familiar with All My Sons? Yeah, great one.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I feel like it's always the mom's play, to be honest with you. People talk about Joe Keller and Chris Keller, but really it revolves around the mom. And I think that's sort of the secret sauce of Mandy Moore in our show too.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
There's Jack and his passing away, and there's the big three and the kids or whatever, but the person that is holding this thing all together, who's played herself from 16 to damn near 90 years old, is Mandy Moore as Rebecca. And I'm curious, like in terms of like what happens to 15 on, like, cause I was asking you Mandy at one point in time, Mandy caught a lot of vitriol.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Rebecca caught a lot of vitriol for like, you better respect that good man. He's so good to you. And even Chrissy was saying that like, you know, Toby's great or, Or the Toby Kate thing was a little bit different sometimes, because sometimes they were like, I don't trust this dude. Right? You know what I mean? Those sorts of things. He's too horny. He's very horny.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Okay.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Let's talk about 215. So one of the things that I recognize from listening to the podcast and actually getting feedback, and I agree with it, is that Sterling talks too much.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Let's bring it down. But we just went through the episode where he clears the desk, because she came in and said she needed to talk. And he's like, I thought. Are we not? Are we not doing this thing?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
But in terms of like that, how things change with regards to Rebecca being the fulcrum of the past or whatnot, like was there, I'm sure there was a conscientious thought about like, all right, we need to establish that like now it's her. And like whether or not she's comfortable with it or not comfortable with it at all times, I'm sure that's gonna vary from time to time over time.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
But like talk to us just a little bit about like, all right, there was Jack, this is now Rebecca's time.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I mean, I think we always just aimed really high and we would, because the show was doing well and people loved it, we got a lot of goodwill really quickly. And that's how we got people like Sylvester Stallone and Ron Howard and like these people that maybe other people wouldn't even take the shot, but we were like, hey, we're This Is Us, we're gonna try. And then we did it.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Sterling talks too damn much.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And then like, what I love is like people like Dr. K, then these great actors would just give these powerhouse performances. And then when they would recur, like in re-watching the car, it's like, Dr. K enters and it's like, act break.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And it's like, everyone, the language of our show is like, people are so excited about this that they now need to exhale and have a commercial break because- Let me see a Target commercial. I'll come back. Dr. K is back. But it was real.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Like people would really be excited when these people would come back because they would just come in and visit us and give these stunningly beautiful performances.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I got it. From who? A person.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Let me ask you one question, and this is not 215 specific, but I just wanna ask this one question. Because we were fortunate enough to be number one in the States, all six seasons that we were on the air or whatnot, Would you guys, how do you think you would have felt if that were not the case?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Do you think you would have just taken it in stride and been like, all right, well, we're still making a show? Or did you feel like it stoked you? Like, all right, we're on top. Like, how do we stay on top? Oh, it definitely stokes you, I think.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Who listens astutely. Okay, was it someone under your roof? No. It wasn't anybody. But people were always saying, and I think this is an apropos time to do it. They're like, Mandy Moore always has such salient things to say.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Oh, definitely. I mean, the expectation was not that we, the expectation was just like, we hope we make a good show and some people like it, you know? And then what happened, I think for all of us, I would imagine was pretty shocking. I don't think it's ever the expectation where you're just like, well, we're going to make this. We'll be number one. We'll make the number one show. Six years.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, six years, of course. But it was amazing. And then, of course, we wanted to constantly outdo ourselves and stay on top. And we really, it definitely lights a fire, I think. Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Thank you, guys.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That was us.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
This episode is such an emotional one. So it's very fitting that it resonated with so many people. We have this one very sweet email from Lindsay. And let's hear what she has to say about it.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So let's go with full disclosure here. We're going slightly out of order for our listeners, but they'll hear this after the fact, right? Because we're doing episode 215. We're skipping over 214 because we wanted to find some time for Dan Fogelman to come and join us because we think it's a very special episode, right? Correct. But life has been lifing for everyone.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I wish we got a chance to hear more of her voice.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It's a good name. Spot on. It's a good renaming. Yeah. The Bridge. It's one of the things that jumped out of me as I watched the episode, too.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I also felt like I talked too much. And this one, I think I got it. I think I did pretty good. Thank you.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You guys are so silly.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, you actually have to live through it to know... that you are gonna be okay. You're not looking forward to that moment. It's something that you try to keep as far away as possible. But then when you're actually faced with it, I remember just on a quick note, when my father passed away and I remember seeing my mom cry, talking to the paramedics, right? And like, it was, she was shook.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Like she was understandably shook because her husband was sick. He goes to the hospital, he passes away in the hospital, right? And I can almost, it's like sort of remembering like her going from that crying to being like, like she said to me, she literally said to me, well, it's you and me now, big guy. She said, it's you and me now. And we're like, all right, we gonna move forward, right?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Like she didn't have a moment of like, I don't know if I can do it or not. She's like, this is our reality now. Our reality was this yesterday. Our reality is this now. And now I choose to go forward. Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
The fear that you were just articulating after finishing your job saying to your reps, like, all right, guys, what are we doing next? Yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
There's a simple four words that I reference from the good book from time to time, and they are, this too shall pass. This too shall pass. Is that Harry Potter? What is it? That is the book. That is book for the Goblet of Fire.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Dumbledore says to him. That's so sacrilege, people.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It's the greatest selling book of all time.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
A lot of people have read that book. J.K. is trying to give- The Bible a run for its money? She's trying to give a run. But that sort of mentality, you guys remember, and I'm curious because you guys, you got three, you got two. Mm-hmm. that first one, you're like, okay, let me make sure this kid doesn't fall apart, whatnot. And then you get to the second and you're like, he's gonna be fine.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
He's gonna be, you know what I'm saying? Cause you see how durable and strong they are, what have you. But until you go through it. Yes, you also realize how important those,
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
We have them on the... Okay, but in all sincerity, when we talked about this a little bit with Isaac and Elizabeth, I believe, who pop in, right? But this was a real turning point for Rebecca's character. And there's a couple of things that I'll highlight and then I'll pass over because there is... We first, we start off with her in the car by herself, and it's the first image after 2-14.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
The fire, yeah. After the fire, right? And just sort of like, okay, how is this family going to move forward right now? Sure, sure, sure. A foursome that was a fivesome. And there's two things that I clock in my head pretty immediately. One was the bridge, right? And how she has to close her eyes when she crosses the bridge. And there was something else, too, that was...
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
like her sort of admitting a certain sort of like frailty or weakness, et cetera. Obviously the conversation with Dr. Kim, we'll all get to it soon, right? Because it's a real turning point for the character.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I just wanted to hear you talk about that.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It's been a couple of months since last we've been together in the same space.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Because there's a certain level of concentration and focus that you try to stay in so that you can honor the character and where they are in life. And the plane comes.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
March. Golly. March. March. Jiminy Christmas. I know.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
ADR stands for additional dialogue recording, what you would call dubbing, right? So sometimes you'll hear lines. And it's always funny as an actor, when you're watching the show and you hear like the dub line, the line just comes out of like nowhere. And you're like, that clearly wasn't on the day. You know what I'm saying? Hopefully the audience doesn't pay attention now that I've said this.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
They're going to be like, that was ADR.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah. But the idea is you try to get your voice on production through, right? So that you don't have to come back. Because it's not just matching the voice. It's matching the emotional state of wherever that character was. And doing it in a booth by yourself
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Heaven to Murgatroyd. Heaven to Murgatroyd. Heaven to Murgatroyd. So life's been life. Because I was hoping we were going to do 2.14 first, but life has happened in the way that it is. I want to check in with everybody. Chris, you've been out shooting in Toronto, new show. How you feeling? How's it been going?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
My circadian rhythm is like... Totally, totally.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah. I think it was three different trees. The answer is no, by the way.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That's what I was about to say. Like, Randall goes to the tree. Of course, three different locations. Different tree. Kevin's tree is different. Your tree is different.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
My tree was in Memphis.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Exactly.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I hear you.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It was beautiful.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We'll be right back with more. That was us. Life can pull us in so many directions, kinda like our characters on This Is Us. And when things get hectic, finding time for yourself isn't always easy. That's why we love Peloton. Peloton has the convenient and varied instruction we all need to stay on track. You can find whatever you're looking for.
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Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
If I wanna focus on upper body, there's upper body workouts, there's glutes and legs workouts, there's core workouts, right? You got boot camps, you have runs, you have hikes, biking, whatever it is, is there.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Some days, I want to challenge myself with a tough boot camp. Other days, I just need a 10-minute walk or a calming meditation. Pelotime gives you the ability to choose what you need, whether you're pushing yourself or taking it easy. And let's not forget the instructors. They are the best motivators out there. It's fun to imagine which instructors our characters would connect with.
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Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Like Randall, who's always pushing himself, would probably love someone like Robin Arson. while Rebecca might go for a more soulful yoga session with Aditi Shah. Allow me to give a special shout out to my girl Jess Sims for the dope Sims 60 that she always brings the pain on. Adrian Williams with the Thunder 45. I love you guys.
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Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It's all about finding your push and your power, no matter what season of your life you're in. And with Peloton, you've got the variety and motivation to do it all. Find your push. Find your power. With Peloton at OnePeloton.com.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
So anxiety and corn sandwiches.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
One thing that I noticed from coming into the writer's room is that I feel like they had a very strong sense of not only the characters, but they had a very strong sense of who we were as people. Because as you're watching the show, like you're watching the dailies, you see us in character and you see us sort of out of character as well and whatnot.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
So I'm curious, like, what are the things that you saw in us that like, you're like, you know what we should write towards? Because so-and-so already is sort of living in this place already that might help to sort of evolve the character even further. Oh, that's interesting. That's a hard question. I'm trying to think of it.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
That's in the pocket.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
What is it like for you all in terms of writing scripts? And I know they'll go through the script and they'll go line by line or scene by scene and everybody will give notes on what they think should change and what plays, what doesn't. So it's very sort of scrutinized sort of thing. I'm interested in your take on actors who don't say the fucking words. Do you like that? Do you not like that?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But I'm saying like, is it a strong, because I'm sure it also varies from set to set. And I want to say this, like, if you're on a Sorkin set, you're going to say the line.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
To the comma. A very young, very sort of skittish 25-year-old girl will come up to you and say, hi, sorry, but you said this and you were supposed to say that. If you were on Amy Sherman Palladino, you're going to say what's there. So I'm curious for you guys with Dan and whatnot, what kind of rules did you guys have for yourselves in terms of latitude versus not latitude?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And right to right, papers flying. Exactly, exactly. I can remember one time where we had like a little bit, there was this tension. It was season three. There wasn't huge tension. It was the argument between, it was an argument between Beth and Randall. And there was a joke at the end of it that sort of undercut everything to try to diffuse the tension. And I remember it was one of you two guys.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I was like, guys, I don't think I should diffuse the tension. And they're like, well, you try this joke. And I was like, I don't want to do a joke. I feel like Randall is known as being the person who sort of like brings things back in that sort of way because he's uncomfortable with it. I think I want to live in this discomfort of that. And you guys were like, Like, you know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But that was like the one time that like we had that conversation.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It was one of my favorite places to be. And I was saying this on a previous episode of the show. Like every pitch begins like, okay, the bad pitch is this because nobody wants to own it. Like I spent so much time thinking about it.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
So I'm curious for you guys. I mean, you're running the show, but you've obviously, you've staffed and everything else. Talk to me about just like putting yourself out there and having the thickness of skin to be like, all right, didn't get that one. Like, what is that like for you guys?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
These are very different rooms that are happening right now. A Dan mandate? Or was it him and Jess coming up with it together?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Like, yeah, they're going to find me out sooner or later.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We're doing it right now.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I would come in there a lot. Sterling was a fixture. You guys would all come in, but he was a fixture.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I came in a lot. Well, two reasons for it. And you guys can reflect this back to me. Cause it was my second long-term show. I did six years on a show called Army Wives. And one of the things that the showrunner would always tell me is like, dude, The better I know you, the easier it is for me to write for you. So this idea that you can't come in and talk is sort of anathema.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Just come in and say hi. It doesn't have to be a big deal. You can just do that. And I was like, okay. The open door policy was there. I was like, I'll just come in and say hi. But it's also because all the storylines are so individuated and everybody who watches the show thinks we're all around each other all the time.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But you know, you go on the Katobi track, you're on the Rebecca track, et cetera. So I loved seeing what everybody else was doing and what the trajectories for all the other characters were. Like I was as invested in that as I was, maybe even more so to a certain extent. I was like, okay, Randall's cool, but like, what's going on with Jacob? Is this Vietnam?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
You do. I mean, that's the thing. They would ask us all the time, like, do you guys know when Jack dies and whatnot? I'm like, yes. To your credit, you guys laid out this beautiful tapestry and map that we, in the present, were always operating with this knowledge of, like, this happened in our past, right? Because I don't know how...
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Some people say in certain TV shows, they're like, no, I just like to take it one at a time or what have you. And I feel like if you're doing a play or a film, you have the beginning, middle, and end. And so we can all sort of together help sort of chart the trajectory.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And I feel like sometimes, and I feel like there's a level of respect in this writer's room for actors that doesn't all, sometimes you feel, and you can feel it when you're being played like a pawn. Just do this. Pawn goes here, you do that. And then don't worry about the thing that happens next. We'll let you know when that next thing happens. And you're like, all right.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But because there was some sort of like shared collective experience or whatnot, like there was buy-in and there was a mutual respect. And it was like, oh no, we're all kind of doing this thing together. Like these, they're on the words, but like, I have thoughts and feelings and ideas, et cetera. And all of it felt respected all the time.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And I feel like that's not the, it's not that way on every show.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
that you guys like, yeah, maybe didn't get to explore, that you had mapped out, but like there wasn't time or... Even just what happened in season five with regards to the world, did that like completely shift?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We were doing a live chat on a YouTube for the episode where Chrissy came on and a lot of people in the comments were talking about the divorce storyline. Was that something you guys knew about early? Yeah.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I feel you, bro. But let me tell you something. Dabble and dollop changed the game for me. It's not just bath time anymore. It's a full-on experience. All-natural, clean, vegan, tear-free bubble baths, body washes, shampoos, lotions, and even bath bombs. Without all the gross stuff. No artificial dyes, no parabens, no phthalates. Just pure, simple, good-for-your-skin ingredients.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Because even, there was a stock plummet. There was. Let's stop talking about it. We all signed a thing, we can't talk about it.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Abruptly taken off the air. Well, let me ask you guys this, because Dan always knew he had six seasons, right? And he never really wavered on that. Like, do you feel like he wavered on that ever?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I like that.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It was like fleeting. You gotta grab it. I guess my question is now, because the landscape of media is ever evolving and ever changing. a show like ours on network television, and I mean this in the most, do you feel like it will happen again? Or do you feel like everything has moved to streamers or what have you?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Or like, is there space for a serialized drama that's not a procedural to succeed right now, given just the strike that's just transpired and just like how, look, our show is what it is, but like, it's not like, well, I won't say that. People do rewatch it on Netflix and stuff. But mostly the things that do successful are the ones that like you can jump in and jump out.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
You can't jump in and jump out of This Is Us. You're kind of confused by it. So I'm curious from you guys who are creating actively, like, is there even like a push or pull from the industry to get another one of these? Or is this like, no, we're doing different stuff?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
To that end, so the propulsion part, which we were talking about this before, like everybody's sort of like, what happened to Jack? How'd it happen? And we're like, guys, there's all this kind of story going on. And they're like, yeah, but what happened to Jack? Then we solve that. Then we introduce Nicky. I kind of feel like that's the sort of next thing. You're like, he got a brother?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Who's this brother? Where's he been? How did it end? We didn't really, did we have that for the last two seasons? Or like once Nicky is introduced, like what would you say was that sort of propulsive part that was above the just drama of the family?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And they're like, where's Kate? Why is Kate not with Toby? They were wondering if Beth and Randall were together. Yeah, everything. Right? Then you were there without Kate.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
working on that building? Let me tell you something. The introduction of Older Randall, my wife would destroy me. She's like, did you just let it all go, bruh? Do you remember? We had to take it down. We slowly had to... I remember the first time Old Randall was like... I'm like, this?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And John and Glenn did 214 and they're like, look, we just need to make sure that he doesn't look like he does in the present. We have to make it as big of a thing as possible so when people see it, they know that like it's a different time period, right? And I was like, yeah, but Randall's the dude that talks about running marathons and all this stuff. So it was a process.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It was a whole face prosthetic that became like pieces, like small pieces.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
He wore a goatee in the past once for Chrissy's wedding, for Kate's wedding or Randall's wedding. He had a goatee and anytime he put on the goatee, this was like the whole time he'd just be like, touching his face and just be like. Miserable.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We take that part for granted in terms of like, we're just trying to deal with like the relationships that are happening in front of us or whatnot. But that anticipation that the audience also had for like what, because you give them such huge twists from the jump. The fact that we're all living at two different timelines from the pilot, the fact that Jack after 102 was like, who's this Miguel?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And he married to who? Like that was like, So like you've already sort of like stoked this anticipation. What are they going to do next? And you guys kept, that was probably, that must've been the hardest part.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
You guys would do things, and they're usually probably would, I guess you guys, I heard this term Dan dates, like a mandate from Dan, where he would come up with stuff with characters not involved, like, the, I'm thinking of the FaceTime. Oh, the video chat guy, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, damn, is this gonna work?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Like every once in a while I ask like, is this gonna, and then I was like, I'd watch it. I'm like, you mother, it just got you. He had the whole one with like the immaculate reception. Do you guys know Franco Harris? No. He played for the Pittsburgh Steelers and we follow him at the beginning of the episode or whatnot. That's right, that's right. And I was like, why are we showing Franco?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And then it comes at the end. I was like, how do you do that? Yeah. My hair looks terrible. Put this back on right here. Did you guys ever question when he would come up with those things that were sort of hung around characters outside of the Pearsons? Did you question or you're like, no, he's gonna do it? Like, I'm curious from your perspective.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Where we meet Cassidy?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yeah. Is there anything that you guys remember particularly in terms of how we played with structure that particularly excited you? I mean, I guess, you know, instead of just following the traditional storylines, like what episodes pop out to you writing-wise that were like very exciting to play with?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We're just watching those right now.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Finishing. I'm just going to just shout out real quick. Like frigging Justin Hartley's. I know. We talk about number one is like top three episodes of the whole series. Okay. That's it.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Have your business tracker.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Correct. How many seasons of How I Met Your Father? Two. We did two of those.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
What up, gang? How are you? We're great. We're happy to be here.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Three seasons of Victor. Killing the Game. And you also did the movie. You did Simon as well.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We're so happy to have you. I just found out, as we were finishing the show in 2022, were you pregnant in 2022? Were you just had the baby in 2021?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I remember at one Paley Fest, somebody was asking like what they thought, how he expired. And people were pitching out all kinds of random theories and things that some were kind of crazy. And then if somebody said like house fire, like, oh, that's a good one. You know what I'm saying? He couldn't like betray anything, yeah. Next question.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
So, okay, in terms of running it and the process with this show as opposed to other ones, because you guys have run a few other things as well, what's the synchronicity of how do you work with Dan as opposed to other shows that you run?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Through season three?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Okay. So he's how old, Ian?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
He's five, and then you just, you have a one-year-old.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And I do, I printed it for him. Well, Kev was doing pitch, wasn't he?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yeah. And then he came around.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Everybody's having babies. I'm getting lapped.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
That's right. I was like the only person that had babies. It was me and Justin, because he had his older daughter or whatnot. Now, this is a question I have for both of you right now, because you both have three, just like Rebecca on the show. Is it an incremental step up from two, or is it an exponential step up from two?