Heather Campbell
Appearances
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
Even if that feedback happens to be negative, you know, we're going to put that in a way that's hopefully constructive. They can walk away from that, even though maybe they aren't the candidate of choice. They're someone that still feels good about the process, both us and the partnership that they've created with us, but also the organization and the client we're representing.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
Thinking ahead allows for each recruiter to, again, be able to decide how they want to run their own business. And part of that is areas that you want to focus on. I have had the opportunity to work with human rights and social justice nonprofits that I personally have a passion for.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
And so being able to work with some amazing people that are doing some really great things, both in the world and right here at home, I'm kind of one degree away from being able to support whatever that impact is that they're making on the ground. As we're working with candidates, we're coaching them to become better in their career path as well.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
So, of course, they're being able to make impact at an organization that they probably admire, but hopefully they're kind of being able to look introspectively into what they want and the direction they want to go.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
And sometimes it's not the client that I'm working with, but they're able to kind of understand themselves a little bit better and being able to see people make those decisions for themselves and find joy in whatever it is that they're doing, whether that is an organization that I place them at or whatever direction they end up taking.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
But that entrepreneurial thing kind of always hung there. And when I found Thinking Ahead, it was this perfect kind of combination of both being able to have a team and structure and a boss. You have benefits, have everything that you get that's a benefit from being employed somewhere.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
But then the ability to really have a lot of agency and flexibility with your time because you are running your own business. Thinking Ahead allows you to make the decisions that are best for you. for you that you want to make as you kind of move through that career path.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
I had started off school, like my career path in business, got a business administration degree from St. Kate's in Minneapolis and had always wanted to do something entrepreneurial, whatever that looked like. I then kind of continued on in my career path, you know, advancing with just different types of jobs, learned a lot of things that helped me become a better professional.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
Obviously, there's metrics and there's people you have to make sure you're still accountable to, but you really get to move through the organization in a way that makes sense for you and how you want to run your own business. So it feels good. It's this combination of two things that I think I really, as I move through my career path, want. An organization like Thinking Ahead, we are boutique.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
And I know that sounds like a buzzword, but we take every single search that we handle as if it's its own search. It is something that everything's a little bit different. We're going to tailor it to what the organization needs. We're going to make sure we're listening to what the organization feels like they need and can benefit most from having a partner like a search firm like Thinking Ahead.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Heather Campbell
And we make sure that then those pieces and elements are a part of what needs to be a part of that process for the search that needs to be conducted. I think that we are an organization that is committed to the candidate process just as much as we are to the client process. We want to make sure that experience for the candidate is one that feels good. They're heard.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
I think it's a bold question and allows people just some strength at the end to sort of close it up on their terms. Then we will schedule a debrief with the candidate as well. So I want to talk with them ideally an hour after their interview, sometime within that hour or just immediately after that. And so we schedule that for just a 15-minute thing. Hey, your interview's over. Give me a call.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And I love that. I think that prepping and debriefing the candidates and the clients during this part of the process, they probably do great without us. But at the same time, it's that like additional sort of icing on the cake to make sure stuff goes really well. I'm also a big process driven person. So if this is something I could manage in that process, I love it.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Let's talk about how it went. Questions that I typically ask are logistics, like was everybody on time? Was there any tech issues? How did it go? Things like that. And then I'll ask, tell me very broadly, like how do you feel that it went? And so I'm listening for things like, again, enhanced enthusiasm. Anything that they feel they maybe didn't do so well?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
We'll talk about what did they learn from the interview? Were there questions that you told me you wanted to ask? Did you get to ask those? And was there additional information that you were able to hear and learn based on how you're feeling so far? Do you feel like this is a job that you can handle as well as is this something that's going to challenge you enough?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So where do they kind of land with that based on what they learned about the job? How is the synergy with the people that you talk to, especially if this is somebody that they would be reporting to or a peer? And we'll just kind of go through those questions and again, kind of just letting them download on how it went. I asked them about that question, how they closed the interview.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
A, did they ask it? B, did they have any sort of responses? And then were they able to overcome anything? We next then coach them to, of course, write a thank you note. But what I would say is based on this debriefing with me, is there anything that you and I just talked about that you could add and include into a thank you note?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Maybe it's something that you wish you would have clarified or something you were really grateful that you learned or something that you found as a connection between that candidate or that client and yourself. Those are the things to add into a thank you note. I feel that these are super important. I want you to make it less generic and more personal.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So again, anything that you may have connected on. I have had many clients tell me that a good thank you note has had a candidate rise above others because of the effort that was put into a good thank you note. No need to do anything to the mail anymore. A virtual note is just fine. I get asked that question a lot too.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
You'll probably know if you made it or not sooner than a note would get to them in the mail. And then the last part of the debrief that I have is just be really honest about when I'm going to be able to have feedback. I never want to overpromise a timeframe that I will be able to share news with them. And regardless of the decision, I will let them know.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And that was the client was able to offer me about how the interview went.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So, again, this is something that we scheduled, you know, after all of the interviews for that round. You know, so you've got a round one interview. Anybody that was involved with that will schedule that whether it's one person or five. And we typically go through each candidate separately, just kind of letting them share how do they feel like it went with, you know, John, Sarah, Jim.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
I also share with them the feedback. So I've had that conversation with the candidate about, you know, things that they talked about, things they enjoyed. It may be some like starstruck pieces that happened.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
I'll share that first so that they can kind of, usually it's good stuff because most often the candidates feel like, you know, it went well, but they'll resonate with things that maybe were said there, which I feel like kind of helps them. them either remember some parts of those interviews that happened and also find like a connection with that person. Like, oh yeah, we did talk about that.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Or, oh yeah, she did share that. So I think that that part is really important to just be candid. We'll go through each candidate and let everybody just sort of share. Sometimes people disagree on stuff, which is really interesting, but I try to just really ask probing questions versus trying to input anything about my experience with the candidate. Because, you know, we're all human.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Sometimes I, you know, have favorites and everything. I don't want to involve myself in that part of the process at all. I want them to hear from each other about how it went and how it happened. It also depends on is this a panel of peers or is this an executive leadership team versus the hiring manager? And so I try to keep the hiring manager on or record those conversations.
The Talent Trade
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debriefs with the client so that the hiring manager can, whoever the decision maker is about the candidate, I want to make sure that they're able to listen into on how those debriefs went with everybody else involved. But again, on the back end, I've gotten evaluation forms from everybody in real time right after an interview.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
But then I typically will either share or talk with the hiring manager, you know, about how those how those went. And, you know, usually it just kind of ends with a, you know, thank you. I really, really appreciate your time, because oftentimes if it isn't the hiring manager, you know, they took time out of their day to make sure that these interviews went.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
happen, which I think is really important to value their time as well. And again, I know upfront who is making the decisions. And so if it's a group of folks that did the interview process that are just there to provide a complaint, I'll thank you and move on. And if it is the hiring manager, Our goal is to always have two good candidates at the very end.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And so oftentimes it's a lot of probing and what were the things that were the real strengths or the things that maybe you feel like long-term could be an issue or those kinds of things. So really it's all about just being really intentional about the questions I'm asking them so that they can come to a conclusion for themselves on who the right candidate is.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Thank you. A search ago that I had this year, I had the candidate that was the number two seat that didn't get the job write Greg, my boss, an email telling him just how important that process of the interview, like the prep and debrief with her was a professional, but how much it supported her.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
It was really, really enjoyable to read because it was the person that didn't get the job that felt the need to share. Yeah. Man, what a tribute to you. Okay. Anything else that we haven't talked about that you want to make sure gets on here? I haven't worked for other search firms.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
I don't know what this process is for other groups, but I think I believe firmly that Thinking Ahead does this the best. I think that Thinking Ahead really owns this part of the process, values it, takes it very seriously. It isn't just something that's like, oh, we got to make sure this happens.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
For myself and I know many others, whether it's a nonprofit team or I'm assuming other groups, there's a lot of care that goes into this because it is what makes our ratios so tight. And it's what makes us be able to say that we get candidates in seats.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Even though, yes, we're finding the great talent, I feel like we're also stewarding a part of the process that just maybe not doesn't get as much attention. Yeah.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And so from a philosophy standpoint, prepping and debriefing is just part of our process in general, right? So it's not necessarily... this big new thing or something that I'm sure a lot of search firms do, but I think that we do it really, really well. And I enjoy it.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
It's actually my favorite part of my job because I get to build stronger relationships with both the client, the hiring manager, maybe some folks I haven't met along the way in the process. as well as then those candidates that obviously there's only one person that typically gets the job.
The Talent Trade
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You get to still build relationships with four or five, six other people that you never know throughout your career you may bump into again. So I was going to kind of go over... break it down. What do I do with the clients? And then break it down and probably a little bit longer, what do I do with the candidates as far as the prep goes?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
It's a super important piece of the process so that, again, I can kind of know what's going on and manage how they're going to work. But Again, to your point, oftentimes they're great at what they do, but they are not professional interviewers.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And so being able to make sure that they know what questions they're going to ask and how to sort of handle themselves in that interview, because frankly, just as much as they are interviewing the candidates, you know, those candidates are interviewing them as well to make sure that this is a good fit.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So being able to just talk them through logistics, but also how to be in the interview and how to sort of woo the candidates to the opportunity as well. Make sure that they have a good experience. And then I think from an equity perspective, it's really important that every candidate is having a similar experience and being able to have them experience.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
present themselves in a way that, you know, the clients can can see that in a very similar fashion, like they're being able to see every candidate in the same light in the same way to be able to evaluate people from an equity perspective.
The Talent Trade
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My name's Heather Campbell. I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota, born and raised Minnesotan. I've been with Thinking Ahead for a little over five years now, started in April of 2019. I'm on the nonprofit team, and I focus on working with nonprofits that really work with human rights, equity, and equality, as well as the social impact spaces.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Definitely early on when we have our kickoff call, we talk through the whole process, everything that I'm going to be doing and then everything that I have as far as an expectation from them. I'm getting some bandwidth off their plate by probably helping to manage schedules and getting holds on their calendars. So that gets a little buy-in because they're like, oh, this makes things easy.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
But then a part of that scheduling of interviews, I just kind of assume that we're going to also schedule the prep call before all those interviews happen. So I think I start early with talking through that. Oftentimes, buy-in isn't too difficult, but they may need like I'll tailor the amount of prep that I do based on how much they do.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So if the interview is with HR first off, they've got their standard list of questions. There's maybe a little bit less that I have to do.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
But then oftentimes we'll get a panel involved and there'll be three or four people from the organization that they value this idea of having an interview guide in front of them, being assigned questions and going through those together to say, who's going to say what? And does this question make like sound like you? Is it something that's kind of authentic to what you will want to say?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And so I would say it's pretty rare that we get any sort of feedback. We do get a lot of feedback on the back end. In fact, just recently, I had a whole group of a panel say this was the most organized, focused process we've ever had because of just how detailed you were.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
I think I would suggest that we try it. I think equity, there's a lot of organizations that are starting to, you know, sort of start a journey from a diversity, equity and inclusion standpoint. And oftentimes they don't understand that that can start all the way at the interview process, not just when they've onboarded. somebody to make sure that they have a good experience with an organization.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
It is essential that everybody is being asked the same questions and that an organization is treating folks with dignity and respect through that instead of just throwing them into an interview process that probably doesn't look very good.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And so I think being able to educate them on me supporting that part of the process typically gets people to sort of say, okay, yeah, at least we'll meet with you for a half hour. Yeah.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Yeah, with the client prep, it's pretty basic. Again, we talk about the scheduling of the interviews and put together this interview guide that gets sent over to them a few days before the prep so that everybody involved, whether it's one person or four or five in a panel, gets to see it. So everybody involved gets to have a little bit of input. So we start off first, I talk about logistics.
The Talent Trade
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Everybody got the calendar invites. What are the goals of the interview? Again, it is to evaluate a candidate, but it's also to show... the candidate a really good experience because they are ultimately evaluating anybody involved in the interview process as well.
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We talk about the fact that salary will not be discussed in this part of the interview and the importance of that because that, again, is handled through me. And it's something that just doesn't need to muddy the waters or make anything kind of feel
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off when you're talking through those questions um and then we do schedule a debrief afterwards so after they've interviewed the candidates that are involved in this part i want to get them all on the phone together again for even at 30 minutes or so to just talk about how did it go um
The Talent Trade
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Aside from that, though, we are having them fill out evaluation forms, either in a matrix form or, you know, like a Google form so that they can individually share feedback. And then I get that feedback. But then I also want to hear it kind of from their mouth together later. So I get kind of two sides to a really good deep feedback point from an individual perspective and then kind of as a group.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So the client prep is pretty easy and very process-driven. Now the candidate prep, I think there's a little bit more emotion and sort of a deeper feel to how I handle that. As I said, prepping and debriefing with candidates is actually probably my favorite part of the job. Again, it's something that I have set the tone for this when I started the relationship with the candidate.
The Talent Trade
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Once I've started vetting them and have had multiple conversations with them, I submitted them to the client. Ultimately, they were asked to have an interview. I have told them that if they get that interview, they will be prepping and debriefing with me all the way through the whole process.
The Talent Trade
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So again, kind of trying to build that bond and setting up that expectation that, hey, we're going to talk a lot. Yeah. And being able to kind of let them know that they will have to share how things went, both from a logistics standpoint, from an emotional standpoint, and all those other elements, which I think is really key to part of that process.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So I'll usually schedule a candidate prep, you know, 24 to 48 hours before that candidate has their interview. Before the prep call, I'll send them an email with things like the names of the people that they'll be meeting with, what their titles are, usually a link to their LinkedIn account.
The Talent Trade
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And then we have several good documents that we kind of say take it or leave it, but there's a lot of value in being able to read these and use and to support yourself through this. So it's hitting the target during a personal interview, answering the tell me about yourself question. And then we've got a link regarding the STAR method and how to use this technique to ace the next job interview.
The Talent Trade
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I think a lot of times people, when they answer questions, especially behavioral questions, I talk a lot about the situation, the task that they had, the actions that they took, but they sometimes forget to really like full circle it and bring in the results. What happened at the end and after all of the work that you did, what were the results?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And so that document can be really helpful for folks to sort of review and look through. Again, these preps give me face-to-face time and just build a better relationship and bond with these folks. Ultimately, I want them to trust me through the process because if we get to a finish line... There's a lot of things that we cover that I need them to share and talk me through.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So again, it's just another face-to-face meeting with them that I feel is really important. Again, every candidate usually goes through the same type of prep. We go through the same information. And I tell them that you probably did great in this interview, but it's helping you put your best foot forward. And so again, take or leave the information that I share with you here.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So when I get them on a prep call, the first question I ask is, has anything changed since we last talked? I'm listening for, are they in other interview processes? Has their enthusiasm level gotten higher or lower at this point in the process? How much research have they done? Just how are they feeling in general? Are they somebody who typically kind of is more relaxed?
The Talent Trade
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Are they somebody who gets really anxious before an interview? Yeah. trying to kind of get in their head a little bit around that. And it also lets me sort of see how much prep work they've actually done so far and how much I need to kind of push them to continue to do more research or look up more stuff or, you know, do you know the names of the people and their titles?
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Have you looked at where they went to school? Things like that. We'll go through logistics next. So whether it's virtual or in person, so the who, where, when, how, what's the agenda, you know, all those kinds of things. They're just really aware of what's happening. And then something that I suggest that they do is schedule a call with a friend or family member, somebody they trust.
The Talent Trade
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30 minutes before an interview, somebody that can champion them and give them just some love before their interview. Sometimes it's not necessary if the person's a little bit more relaxed, but if there's any ounce of anxiousness, it's a fun suggestion to just say, hey, Grab a friend and tell them to call you or you call them 30 minutes before and say, you've got this.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
That or, you know, I think a lot of times in Thinking Ahead, we talk about, you know, like the power pose or standing in front of the mirror and saying, you've got this, things like that. So I encourage people to do that before and plan it before the interview. So after we've gone through logistics, we talk about the people they'll be meeting with. So what's their background?
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What's their personality? What's their style? How do they interview? If you're the first person in an interview versus maybe the fifth person to go through an interview, I may know a little less because I haven't gotten feedback from other candidates about how the interview process went. But it's still good.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
I've now talked with those clients and the folks that they'll be meeting with because I did the client prep. So I've got a little bit more of an understanding on who's going to be somebody that's going to have more energy, who's going to be somebody that maybe asks more questions, is the talkative one, the facilitator, things like that. So I'll be able to just go through that.
The Talent Trade
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And I encourage people, I want them to be authentic in themselves in an interview process because that's going to be how they show up for work every day. But I think it's also super important to balance and match sort of the level of energy that the interviewees are giving off. And, you know, if they're kind of calm, cool, collected, it's probably more so how you should be.
The Talent Trade
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But if you've got someone who's high energy, you know, lean into that and also sort of match that energy. So again, authenticity is really important, but I think there's also something to be said about just kind of like a self-aware understanding of who you're with. Okay, the interview questions, you know, what can be expected? What do they need to prepare for?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
I don't actually give them the exact questions in the list of things that they're going to say. But we'll talk about the essence of the question and sort of why are they asking it. This is the question that, you know, you're going to be having to talk about ABC topic. And this is why they want to get a better understanding of your ability to do this.
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This isn't done to give the candidates the answers, but it allows them to just prepare and put their best foot forward. I have a personal belief that we live in a culture that glorifies fast-paced and on-the-spot decision-making, which is necessary. I realize that, but I think there's also a lot of value and strength in allowing people to process and plan better.
The Talent Trade
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We talk about closing the interview. So I'll ask them to wrap up the interview. Usually they've asked their questions of the client. But before they go, I encourage everybody to sort of say some sort of version of this phrase. Thank them, comment on something that you learned or something that you're grateful for.
The Talent Trade
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And then say some version of, before I go, are there any last minute hesitations, reservations, or concerns you have about my candidacy? I don't want them to say, do you have any last minute questions? It's reservations, hesitations, or concerns. I feel that this is so important because...
The Talent Trade
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they do have something, they'll probably share it with you and you now have an opportunity to address it on the spot. The last thing I want is for the client to say, well, they didn't really talk about their experience doing this, but they never asked. They never got the opportunity to actually share a little bit more about that.
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And if it is something that maybe it's a weakness that you do have, you still can address it and maybe find something that is a skill set that's very similar or you're able to sort of just know where they feel that you have something that doesn't meet the needs. And again, it's just an opportunity to address it. Candid information is really, really important.