Guest: David Leitch
Appearances
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
I mean, with David, I think you buy into the vision, right? And so I think part of the excitement with his crew is you know the vision is so strong that you want to make sure you're providing the details for it. And so, again, like, if you're a professional and you love this business and you get to work with somebody who has this really strong vision, then you just, you know, you ratchet the gear.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And looking in that way, I'm like, okay, how can I service this vision? I mean...
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
But I think that... that was a mixture of those two styles. I think, you know, I had shot listed that movie with Jonathan Sela and we were very, very precise, but we allowed for, like when you look at Aaron Taylor Johnson and Brian Tyree Henry, they're playing these lemon and tangerine. When I was in my setups, I let them go. Like they were just brilliant.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And I was just like rolling, like, you know, like, and just mining for gold. So the composition and the editorial style and like all of the production design, like that was really my department heads and we curated it and we had a plan going in. And, but... We let the actors riff a lot.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, it was like height of the pandemic, before the vaccine, and we were greenlit, and we were actually getting ready to sort of prep it for Tokyo, and we were going to go shoot it on location, and then it's like... They decided they want to do it, but they're going to do it. Can I do a version on stage?
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
No, no, no. But I really wanted to go to Japan and, like, get some, you know, some real environments. Sure. And, like, you know, and real grit and texture. And even the tone of the movie is now completely different because I'm like, okay... We're going to shoot it on stage. What's the anime version of this film?
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And then I think we did a big pivot, you know, with the production design and the music and like the costumes. And I'm like, I'm going to make this sort of an anime graphic novel movie because we really have one big soundstage we can, you know, do it on.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And a first AD in Japan. And we had, you know, had them for weeks scouting, sending location photos, sending video because no one was allowed in Japan. You couldn't travel there. Oh, wow. It was like there was a lockdown.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
We did it. All the plate photography we did with a remote unit. Huh? And I would get up at 2 in the morning and get on WhatsApp and watch on a camera.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
No, we had another piece of software to give us the video, and I can't remember what it was exactly.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Well, I actually, I am a little achy. I'm not going to lie, but you know, I've been doing a lot. I do a lot of PT and I stayed, tried to stay healthy. And I did get out, you know, earlier than some of my friends who are still like calling me like, Hey, I hear you got a movie going. And I'm like, got a couple of days for me on that show. Uh,
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
uh-huh and you're like you know you're 50 dude you're not jumping out of the car yeah but like were you were you constantly uh were your parents constantly driving you to the emergency room when you're a little boy were you always jumping off shit and hurting yourself i actually came into the stump business right around the time everyone was like specializing and so they were looking for like martial artists and i yeah i competed in martial arts as a
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
as a kid and like all through college. And I was getting really excited about using this knowledge in movies. Like, you know, cause you learn so much in martial arts that's completely useless. Let's be honest. Like there's all these moves that don't work and you're like, why am I studying all of this stuff?
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And then you realize, oh, because I can make up a fight with it and it can be really cool and look cinematic. Yeah. So there was a group of guys that I was competing with that were in LA and they were working on, you know, these bad blood sport movies and things like that. And I went and visited them in Mexico on the set of this movie called Perfect Target starring Daniel Bernhardt.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And I watched them. put together fight scenes, jump off of stuff, and you fall into pads, and I'm like... That looks fun. I'm in. I just packed up my car and left. I was teaching second grade in Minneapolis. I had just graduated from college.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, I'm like, moving to LA, I'm going to be a stuntman. And then, of course, nothing in this business is easy, and so I moved into a house in Redondo Beach. There were six of us that... We're all trying to be stunt people. I mean, this is a show in its own right. So we dug a trampoline in the backyard without telling our landlord. We bought our pads. We bought an airbag.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
We went out to the desert. We built high fall towers. We were just going to train to be stunt people until somebody- gave us a shot. No way.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, they're all, by the way, they're all really successful stunt coordinators, second unit directors. Wow. Chad Stahelski was the other guy. He directed John Wick with me.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
This is a great one. So I'm thinking the training ground for stunt performers is the live show, right? And so I hadn't even done a movie yet or a TV show, but I was trying out for the Batman. live show at Magic Mountain. I was, by the way, trying out. I wasn't even the guy. To play Batman? To play Batman. Excellent. And I was showing off.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
I was like swinging from... The car goes under this catwalk. I grab the bar and I'm supposed to do a back... Well, I'm not supposed to do a backflip, but I'm going to show everybody how I'm going to do a backflip. Oh my God. Yeah. Famous last words, hold my beer. Right. And then I was like... I completely under-rotate it, put my wrist down, and I shatter it in four places. Oh, my God.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Wow, wow, wow. I'm like, surgery, you know, I have a big halo on my wrist, and, you know. And it's super embarrassing because, again, I'm not even a stuntman yet. I am just, like, the beginning of my career trying to break into this business.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
I was embarrassed more than discouraged. I think, you know, there was a great group of guys that we were all like, we just really believed it. You know, we really believed we could make it. And... Part of it was this conversation we overheard in a diner. We always tell each other this today. It was pretty funny.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
There was two women in a diner sitting behind us and they were like, preparation plus opportunity equals miracles, sister. Preparation plus opportunity. And so we would, jokingly, we'd always say that, but we really meant it. It's like, just get good. Just get good and then someone will open the door and then you're good and get to do stuff. And so we would just train. All we did was train.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Well, look, in the fall guy, we got to like, you know, sort of play homage to all the old school stunts, right? We did this like incredible car roll.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah. And we did a high fall. And that was Bob Brown's kid, who was a legendary high fall artist. Like that is really like... the lost art, you know.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, we use, you know, visual effects lets us erase the wires and we can use high-speed winches or we can use descender rigs. And there's a lot of ways to do that. you know, in a safer manner. But like when we did it in the movie, we had Troy, Troy Brown come out, who's, you know, Bob's kid. And he's one of the few people that can, that do it. And like has trained that old school sort of stunt.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
But look, it's such a wide discipline of stuff. And that's why you have to be specialized because, you know, everything got more and more technical as we tried to make it safe. And so, yeah. The drivers specialize in driving.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah. Well, now there's like... They've invented this great gel. Actually, there's a stunt performer. He's got a company called Action Factory, and he just won, or he was recognized by the Academy for a Technical Achievement Award for his gel, this stunt gel that allows you to basically burn for a long period of time without the big suit and without the prosthetic mask.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
You just rub it on your body? Yeah. Well, there's the gel underneath it, but it's really the fuel that burns cooler. It's a combination of the water gel, which is like an aloe-based gel, and then the fuel that burns cooler. But look, it's all like the circus. There's all these sort of secrets.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
he probably was sitting on first unit. I mean, I don't know if we shot it on second unit. I can't really remember that, but yeah, it was a pretty amazing stunt.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, yeah. Look, it's been a long journey. And look, for 20-plus years, inside the Academy, there's been a lot of stunt coordinators working on it. You know, Jack Gill, Greg Smurs, Melissa Stubbs. There's been a lot of people trying to move the needle. And after... You know, we basically, we made Fall Guy. We're coming back from making Fall Guy.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
We are all feeling really excited about this giant commercial we made for why there should be an Academy Award for stunts. And I just went in with Kelly, my wife and producing partner. We went in and talked to the Academy of like, what's been the stumbling blocks? How do we get this done? You know, casting found a way to get this done. How can we find a way to get this done? And they really did...
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
There was a tremendous amount of support inside the academy. And they just said, look, we have a roadmap you follow. And it's just been... some sort of lack of clarity. And so Kelly and I really went down the road of like trying to rebrand what we were asking for. And I think, you know, the Academy obviously has these, this legacy of honoring design, like production design, costume design.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And I think when people think stunts, they're like, what are you going to give the stunt to the, you're going to give the award to the performer? Are you going to give the award to the person that rigged the stunt? And it's like, no, we're going to give it to the stunt coordinator, the department head. the tradition is you give it to the designer.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And so we rebranded our credit on the Fall Guy, and this was Kelly's idea, to Stunt Designer. And Chris O'Hara, the stunt coordinator on that, Kelly went to the guilds. She got it approved by the WGA and the DGA, I'm sorry, the DGA and SAG. And it was like, we got the credit Stunt Designer. And that was sort of the first-
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Well, it's going to be two years. I think that's kind of like we have some internal things to do in terms of how it's going to be awarded. And they want to do it on the 100th anniversary.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
I think it's all open for discussion and really wasn't what we voted on this time around. But it's exciting. Like, look, I think it's long overdue. And I was happy to be instrumental inside the Academy, like really getting on the Zooms with all the governors I could and like really canvassing it. And then, you know, for our final vote, I curated a...
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
a video presentation with a lot of director friends, celebrity friends that were really advocates.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Well, that's a great, that's a great, we can explain what bump means in the stunt world.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
So every time, yeah. Well, in the 80s, it meant two things, I'm sure. It probably meant one, like, how am I going to get ready? And two, how am I going to get paid? But it's really, it's called the stunt adjustment and you get money for each time you do something that's dangerous. And that's sort of, it's decided by the stunt coordinator and production and like sort of agreed upon.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And so, yeah, if you did this, that stairfall I was talking about in Fight Club, I mean, he was probably getting $500 each time on top of his salary.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
It really is, actually. So we've been married 12 years, and it's been amazing. Like, look, we met a little later in life, and that was great. Was she a producer when you met her? Yeah. Is that how you guys met? She worked with Scott Rudin's company, and then she ended up in LA. And she is 100% responsible for me becoming a director. I will give her all the credit.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
So she wasn't a manager, but she hip-pocketed Chad and I when she was working at this company called Sierra Affinity, which is a foreign sales company, and she was curating their slate of projects. And she was like, I'm going to get you guys. And Nick Meyer, the guy that owned that company, allowed her to do that. And so she really, you know, taught us how to take meetings and like...
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
really was a champion to the agencies about these guys direct action, but they also tell stories. And she was like a big advocate for us. And she ended up finding John Wick. It came through Sierra Affinity's office and she sort of slipped it to Chad and I. And she's like, you guys should meet on second unit and then you should pitch yourselves as directors.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, he was incredibly supportive from the beginning. And he is, you're right, he's like a director's actor. Like, he loves the director. And he... We had worked with him for so long on the Matrix sequels.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And we had trained him for those sequences and Chad was actually his- So he was familiar with you guys. Yeah, and he- That's great. And then we had helped with choreography on Man of Tai Chi, something that he directed. And so we were like, we maintained that relationship and friendship. So then when it came up, hey, there's a lot of action in this movie. We'd love to be considered.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And we put together our presentation, our lookbook, our sort of, you know, our character sketches and our arcs. And we pitched it to him. He said, let's go to Lionsgate and tell him you want to do it.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
It's, you know, it's hard because, I mean, I have so much fun, you know, since Deadpool, I, you know, everything's had a real fun tone. Yeah. And I do enjoy comedy, you know, that's why I'm, you know, not only the reason, but I'm a huge fan of all your work, you know, all you guys, like, you're just so freaking funny. And that's why we have to do something together, please.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Well, I do. I mean, look, the fun moments for me right now, it's not the big action sequences. I mean, again, I love making them, but they're the sort of like earnest, dramatic moments. You know, I think into The Fall Guy, like some of the scenes with Ryan and Emily that are really sort of emotional.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, and like watching... collaborating with those great actors and like bringing, you know, some real humanity to the screen, I think separates if I pat myself on the back for a second, I think it separates what, you know, people go to see my movies because they're big action movies and there's subversive comedy and all that, but they remember them because they love the characters so much.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, I would love to do, you know, a straight up, I think right now I'm actually in Pittsburgh and I'm prepping the next movie. It's called How to Rob a Bank. And it is sort of a new, you know, taking a heist movie and turning it on its head. And I have Nick Holt and Pete Davidson.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
That's awesome. And there's a lot of dramatic elements in this project that was why I'm attracted to it.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Well, I will say, yes, you get better each time out. And I think... But I did, you know, I had... for better or worse, I had the training wheels of second unit. And so with second unit, you're still working with actors. And like, you know, a movie like this, you know, this blockbuster Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that Will and I worked on.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
We... I worked with Will. You know, I got to work with actors and we were working on performance, even inside the action. So you were constantly like, you were learning actor speak at that level. But then, you know, obviously sitting in the first unit chair becomes, it's a different animal. But I felt really, really comfortable from the get-go. But I think it was, you know, having years of like,
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
You know, being a second unit director, getting more and more, a bigger piece of the film each time out. You know, like these big commercial films, like you might have like six weeks of second unit. You know, it's a lot. And that's more than we had to shoot John Wick.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
I mean, getting them off the ground is always the hardest. It's just- Selling. Selling it. And getting people involved and getting their schedules right and getting your key collaborators to believe in it.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, you know, they say they want to make it for something and then you get it into that box and then, you know, you have a creative idea and then it's like, that's a great idea. And then you're like, yeah, the money box. And then it's like the box expands and then you try and get it back in and it's constantly like...
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Trying to hit a number, whether it's a $100 million movie because there's all these expectations that drive those costs up, or it's a $25 million movie like these ones that we produce that, you know, they're never agreeing. Nobody's coming out. Nobody 2 is coming out in August. That's another exciting.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
So great. He's amazing. He's so good. And Nobody 2, I'm really excited about it. We've had a great time making it. I was actually one of those where... Kelly produced it, but I was on set quite a bit. It was really fun.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Right now, it's been that. The last 10 years has been pretty busy, I have to say. This is movie number seven. And then plus the ones we produced, Violent Night with David Harbour and The Nobody with Bob. But again, I... I love it. I guess I kind of grew up, you said my adult life was all physical production. I loved it. I love the set life. I love my fellow friends on there.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
I love like waking up eating the bad burrito and like, how do we get this done? Like, so I miss it. It's been two years since we were on set. Oh, no way.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
You used to play with Johnny Schwartz. Remember? Yeah. JB back in the day. I love it. There's even places to play racquetball anymore? I loved it as a kid.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And so it's been odd, like, being here. They're both in college, and we're now here on prep. And it's like, hey, you guys want to hang out? It's Saturday night. And they're like, uh... Yeah. We're in college. Yeah.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
We had a great, thank you. Thank you. Well, you know, we had a great time on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Well, I mean, there are directors that have it that are prolific. There's plenty that have made it work. that I've worked with as a stuntman or a department head. Look, I was really lucky. I got to mentor under a lot of great directors. You got to see what worked for you and what doesn't work for you. And being an asshole really doesn't work for me. No, it doesn't.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, I mean, I worked with the Wachowskis for a long time. Oh, yeah. And they, you know... On the Matrix movies. On the Matrix movies. And then after that, we did V for Vendetta. We did Ninja Assassin, the classic Ninja Assassin movie. But we did a lot of films and, you know, there's a precision to what they do. There's the homework that they do to be prepared, like all of that stuff.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
And they really build a family with their department heads and they, you know, they're really close. And they allow their department heads to be creative and bring them ideas. And like, and that's where I really enjoy it. You know, I think there's other directors that are like- Yeah, the collaborative spirit of a director, whereas especially coming from production, you want your ideas to be heard.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
You design a sequence as a stunt coordinator, you want to be heard. That kind of goes to Jason.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
No, I mean, it's 100% true. I mean, again, like having been on set, you know, my entire adult life as a performer or a department head, it just, you want to be included. And then, you know, being in the director chair and knowing all those people are there to make you look good, you take the good ideas and then you steal all the credit, right?
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
I was, but it was kind of like one of those movies where you're not doing a lot. You know, when you think about it, it's funny. It's like the name is Fight Club, and then you go back and watch the film. I actually watched it a couple months ago. There's only like three fight sequences in it.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
But what we were doing, and you often do as a stunt performer, is train the actors. So we were training the actors for a long time. Sort of in this messy style of fighting. And then I might have doubled Brad on two or three little moments.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everybody loves him. We all do. He's an awesome human being. Yeah, I love him too. Yeah, so it really was like one of those movies where I was working a lot, but we weren't, you know, the stunts I had to do were like very, very simple. Although I do remember one great, this goes back to Fincher being the sort of like perfectionist that he is.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
I had to throw the Ed Norton stunt double down that set of stairs at the end of the movie. Sure. 12 times.
SmartLess
"David Leitch"
12 takes. No way. And I ran into David, you know, this was like a couple years ago, and I ran into him and I asked him like, hey, what take did you use? And he's like, oh yeah, take two.