Graham Linehan
Appearances
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, but that I think is the real danger, especially if you're a writer, that if you can change the meaning of fundamental word combination like men and women, then everything falls apart.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Do you know what I mean? There's certain things that have been weaponized, and one of them is the empathy that gay people feel for outsiders. You know, they've always been very protective of them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
We have a YouTube channel where we talk about the gender issue. And one of the important things we felt was you've got to show people it's safe to laugh at this stuff, because it is ridiculous. One of the things I got into trouble for was Eddie Izzard said that he would have been a victim of the Holocaust.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And I said, yes, the Nazis famously bigoted against straight white men with blonde hair, you know. That got me called a Holocaust denier by trans rights activists.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, Rowling is now a Holocaust denier because, you know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, yeah. Isn't that crazy? But my point, just to come back slightly to my point about gay clubs, I think this is a really important one because I heard one of, you're going to have to tell me the details, but Foucault, is that how you pronounce it? Foucault, yeah. Foucault's, one of his observations is that in a small, There might be a guy who calls himself mayor, but he's not the mayor.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
He's just a crazy guy. But everyone says, oh, hello, mayor. And they listen to him and they take his advice and stuff like that. And that seems to be what affirmation is. Yes. Right? Yes. But the thing is, once you widen it throughout society, it falls apart. It's untenable once you get outside of that small village. Yeah. And what I think gay clubs were was a place where outsiders could come.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You wanted to dress as a woman. You wanted to dress in ridiculous clothes. The gay club was a safe place to do all that. But that empathy has been weaponized by straight white men in AGPs who are basically manipulating the empathy that both women and gay people have for the outsider.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It seems to me more that they're giving eccentrics too much power. Oh, sorry, that's what you said.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But there's people like... There's one guy, a famous guy in the UK. He's got a beard. He appeared on this video that a wonderful Scottish TERF who died very young, 34 years old, Magdalene Burns, absolutely wonderful, was first on the scene of the crime. And her videos are amazing. I really recommend everyone watch them. But...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But she did a famous one about Stonewall where this, it was the early days, so they were quite kind of upfront about saying these ridiculous things. And it was a guy with a beard named Alex Drummond. And he was saying things like, I want to expand the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman, you know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And Magdalene said very, you know, in one of her many famous lines, why don't you expand the bandwidth of what it means to be a man? You know, and there's people like him in any normal world. Someone like that would just be an eccentric whose friends tolerated them. And oh, it's just Alex being Alex. But now he's like the figurehead for a movement.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, a bearded woman that also might be a man woman.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Oh, I haven't written in five years. I haven't written comedy in five years. I had to write my memoir for free, basically, to be paid a bit on the back end.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
There's a great phrase in Seinfeld writer has, he says, laughter is a very strong spice. So if you can make someone laugh at something, then they probably will forget to be offended.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
There's only one kind of comedian that thrives in that kind of environment, and that's a mediocre comedian.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I was supposed to do a gig and they closed every venue that I tried to do. Yes, I remember that. It was just unbelievable. Like, you know, you can see here, I'm not like... You're not evil. I'm not rude or anything. I try and put myself across character. Wait until the beast will be unleashed later.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But like, basically, this picture has been built of me. The way I describe it is that I'm the victim of village gossip on a global scale. Yeah, definitely. You know, like my Wikipedia page. The thing it puts at the front is that I once compared... gender surgeries to Nazi experiments on children.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, the first vaginoplasty was performed by a guy, I think his name was Gerpart, who was in the Luftwaffe and performed hypothermia experiments on prisoners at Dachau. Yeah, well, that's unit 731 right there, because that was what they specialized on. That's the first vagina capacity.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And now they're just practicing it everywhere on mentally unstable people, on people who have autism, on people who have depression.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, you know, in a lot of the photographs you see of the young girls who've had double mastectomies, we always see lots of tiny little scars along their arm.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And you know the way they farm the skin from the arm to make the false penis? Yeah. I once saw one of them, those false penises, and they had those little tiny self-harming scars all over them. Yeah, that's about right. This young woman was having a fake penis that would never work, that they put in through the side.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think they have to come in from above to create the hole that the fake penis goes into. Jesus.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It is. It's like one of the other things I got in trouble for early on. I said, this is a Cronenberg movie. Yeah, right. This is medical horror and body horror. Yeah, definitely. And all these kids are not being told any of the consequences of puberty blockers.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
reconstructed penis she got away lucky you know and that's a terrible thing to say and so yeah it's just someone I heard from I think her name is that when these mothers who have had double mastectomies and gone on to have children when the baby cries there's still fibers from the breast muscle in their chest and it reacts and it hurts them when the baby cries but they can't do anything about it because wow
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
They've cut off their breasts because, you know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Didn't one person, I can't remember who said it, but one person said your breasts would grow back. You know? Really? Yeah. I can't remember who said it, but like, I mean, there's all sorts of kooks in this movement as well.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I mean, it just goes, like, you know, I always think about the line of men outside the courtroom going into the Giselle Mercure, is that her name, Mercure? Giselle, you know, the woman who was raped in her sleep, her husband. Right, right, right. I always think about that line of men going in, you know, and I just think, well, you know, that's opportunity.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And we all think that we're all kind of good. But there's always going to be men who, if you move the line a little bit, they're going to follow the line.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yes, that's right.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Laurel Hubbard, the weightlifter in New Zealand, was the son of a billionaire. He's like the son of, like, the equivalent would be Kellogg's, you know, something like that in New Zealand. And he beat two indigenous women who had worked their whole lives, you know, to get to where they are. And now they've got second and third. And this man, this clear man, got first.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
He's an average man, but he's a hell of a woman. But what I can't... What I find difficult to explain, I'd love to see what you think of this, is the people who really confuse me are the people who stand by and just let it happen. I don't understand psychologically why there was such an agreement for the last five years amongst all my friends and even some family members that I had become evil.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, I was, for most of my adult life, I was a sitcom writer, comedy writer, and quite a successful one. You know, got a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Comedy Awards. Standing Ovation, I think I've won about five BAFTAs personally, one Emmy. Done about five sitcoms, three of which are kind of, you know, near household names.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Father Ted was the main one. Father Ted actually was so influential that... They say it had a little bit to do with the Irish church releasing its hold in the 90s on Ireland, you know, just because we weren't very satirical. We were very silly. We were always a surreal and silly show. And so that had more effect.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And also, Waltz has a lot to cover up, you know, because it's going to come out what's been happening to these kids, and he kind of made that possible in his state.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It was appraised or terrified them, which was institutionally racist.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It doesn't come up in a superficial search, but it can come up in a deep search, I believe.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
something I am in two minds about now, and actually kind of just helped limit the church's influence to some extent by simply throwing a banana peel in their way. So everything was going great. I was asked to write an accompanying book play for a Peter Schafer farce, which I love, called Black Comedy, which has got the most extraordinary premise.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So many things like that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And that was the first thing, I think, oh, and I was supposed to go and teach comedy in Australia. That was the first.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
There's no presumption of innocence.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That was the first thing that went. They said they couldn't... I heard something I heard over and over again, that it was security problems. They couldn't afford the security. You'd hear that a lot. Then the... Security for you or for the people that you were going to offend? Well, that's the thing. That was the first time I said, can I speak to my accusers? Can I...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
No, I was just going to say, I've had three visits. I've had two visits from the police. One on a Sunday morning. As befits a big... Yes, tell him, because it'll beat Canada if you tell him about this.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, we'll see. I've got one up my sleeve still. Oh, yeah, that's true. Okay, so yeah, tell the story.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, I started reporting on the activities of a serial con man. Victim. I'll be... Who was taking women to court, getting them put in prison cells and so on. And he called that harassment, used it, first of all, to call the police on me, then sent me a summons. He sued me at the same time because he's what I call a prison lawyer. Oh, yeah. He knows about the law. And that's what he does.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
He just puts people under the stress of a… Called malignancy. Ignorant narcissism, by the way. That's it, yeah. And then just at the end, he drops it. You know, he owes me costs. He owes everyone costs. Anyway, found out recently that apart from all this, he was a sexual offender. He was imprisoned for sexual offenses against a 14-year-old boy.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You know, this is the guy who has the British police working for him, going to people's houses and knocking on doors. Did they tell you? They told you your sin, though, didn't they? Yeah. They told me that, yeah. Oh, well, it's nothing then. You could hear it in the voice of the guy, of the policeman on the other end of the phone. This was the first time. It was just a phone call.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And you could tell he did not know what was going on, you know? And he said... Yeah, that's even worse. Yeah, it's kind of like, it's just pure procedure. And he said to me, can you block them on Twitter or something? And I said, I already have them blocked. I knew immediately this was a malignant and appalling person. I blocked them. I said, I blocked them years ago, you know?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And he was confused by that, you know, because he didn't, he didn't, he just didn't really know what was going on. So they just, these activists just say the right words to wind them up and they go to people's doors.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
By that Christian Welshman.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Can I see if I can... I know, yeah. I was very... How old-fashioned can you get?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So it's all... There's a weird... Sex offenders removed from their cells to make room for these women.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, this was the very earliest days when I still felt that there were people of good faith within things like gender ideology, and they... If you just explained certain things, they would... Like, for instance, one of the things that I started talking about, because I was paying attention to women who were being bullied offline, who were called TERFs, you know, and...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, these were the days just before I got cancelled. And I believed everything that was being told to me about the new right, you know, or the online right or whatever.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So I understand. And this guy was doing these kind of videos. And he did one video where he got his dog. He had a pug.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That was a lovely dog. I've missed it. So he secretly taught it to do a Hitler salute. And I, rather than seeing this as quite a funny gag to play on your girlfriend... saw it as hidden messages, anti-Semitism, all this sort of stuff. Right, right. And he really was just messing about and having a joke.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, actually, didn't you... But I had to do one of my many apologies. I don't want to drop you in.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I sometimes call it my apology tour. Didn't you try and stop his crowdfunder from getting... I did. I did. Something for which I'll spend a few years in limbo.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But, you know, I did that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I was trying to figure all this out, but I saw that women were getting death threats and rape threats for even discussing it. And one of the earliest things I saw was actually a Canadian story that the Vancouver Rape Relief had a dead rat nailed to their door because they wouldn't accept men in their sessions, you know, or whatever they're called.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And saying something cures that cognitive dissonance. Even briefly. You get to turn it off just for a few seconds and think, oh, at least I've made a decision.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think it's like, it's not just that it's weaponized. It's that the panopticon, or whatever you want to call it, is frictionless, right? Like, there's a very funny Onion thing about arson at a party being disproved by the 60,000 photographs that were taken at it, you know? Yes. And everyone just has a different angle of a cigarette falling to the floor, you know, that was taken.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Was that before or after the government cut off their funding for refusing to accept men? I think it was after. And, you know, I helped raise money for them and... I just thought as soon as some people saw it, they would go, what? A rat nailed to the door of a rape crisis center? A dead rat. A dead rat. What can we do to help? And there was none of that. No one stood up for me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I've seen that, yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, and it's just because we, without realizing it, have become the apparatus of a police state, you know. But it's all just part of the fabric of our lives. We would not, it's like recently I found out, Do you remember Pokemon Go was big for a while? So people were going down the street and they were finding Pokemons.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, apparently that was a company who wanted to get people to do their GPS work for them. So they put Pokemon in places where there wasn't a GPS record of it. And they got all these people to go out and film it for them. That's smart.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, a hundred years of it afterwards, wasn't it?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I just started the kind of propaganda piece, a paper, Pink News, has now published over 75 stories about me. They famously did 42 stories on J.K. Rowling in a single week, you know, so six stories a day for seven days.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Now we just need to turn that into a logo.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, and as far as I could make out, it did not seem exclusionary. The feminism these women were practicing was basic feminism. You mean the kind that believes that women exist? That women exist.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It was funny. It's an escape valve, you know, and we've known, there's been, I've never seen riots in Dublin until last year, you know. I think it was last year they happened.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It wasn't earlier this year, yeah. I've never seen riots in Dublin. I grew up in Dublin. I've never seen a riot in Dublin, you know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And I'm not saying, I'm not making any great claims for comedy, but one of the things that it does do is that it lets a little bit of steam out when everyone notices the same thing at the same time. And maybe people aren't talking about it elsewhere. So comedy and satire is a great place to let this steam out. But we have a show called Have I Got News For You in the UK.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And it's supposed to collect the news of the recent week. And you could watch it and not have a clue that any of the stuff we spoke about today is going on. Yeah. You know, because they deliberately avoid anything that will get them complaints. And as a result, it's like completely toothless as a satirical show. We need things that make people, that just make people feel a bit sane.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That they have value, that sex is important, and that men shouldn't be allowed in women's sports and all this type of thing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That's what we tried to do with my YouTube about the gender issue. Yeah. Just wanted to make people, yeah, you have noticed that. People are. Yeah, right, right. You know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And especially the kind of men who would want to do it. Yeah, right.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah. So, yeah, so it was almost instantaneous. I lost every job I got would just disappear within moments sometimes. I'm the shortest term director on any project, I think, when I was asked to direct Steve Martin's Only Murders in the Building. And then...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Like I said, I can plead illness at the time, but that's still... But there's also the apparatus that I was talking about earlier. You just take it as a normal thing that you would issue a statement on it. And we all do. I remember that in the before times on Twitter. If everyone's talking about something, you sit there thinking, oh, I better come up with a joke. Who cares if you talk or not?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I don't really like... Knowing, you know, the way in the old days, you'd watch a show like The Monkees. Like, I used to love The Monkees, the TV show they had, you know. And then you'd wonder about these people and you'd hear from them every so often for the rest of your life, just in little spots than when they died. But now they are telling you their political opinions all day every day.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Which you don't want to know. Which you either don't want to know or maybe you think you want to know and you actually don't.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
What I'm saying is that we're all on a stage now. As soon as you have a Twitter account or Facebook or whatever, you step onto a stage. And I think that always being... being audience-facing is perhaps not the best thing for us. Yeah, definitely.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
you know put down the phone and a few minutes later got an email saying actually someone else has stepped in and I suspect that the real reason for that was that he being excited announced to the to his colleagues we've got Graham Linehan and someone put up their hand and said he's a bigot And I think that that's basically what means I can't really work in the UK at the moment.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I'm kind of confused by Elon's decision to put in the For Utah, which seems like a surefire way to create...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I had a musical based on Father Ted that would have made millions. And they just took it from me, refused to make it if my name is associated with it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You see, I don't want to, you know, take over, but maybe we should get rid of, I should leave the rest of it, because there's so much.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It's so rooted to the year.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, when it's mandatory, it's something completely different. Yes. Even more confusing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And that's not art. I met a guy who was writing a biography of, I can't say who it is because it would get him into trouble, but a very famous figure in the 50s. And I believe he had a heart attack from dealing with sensitivity readers because the correspondence that he... Another dead white man.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But all the stuff, all the information that he unearthed, the letters, they were all using the F word for gay men or the N word and stuff like this. But this is the past. It is the truth. What's that story you tell in your book about Tom Stoppard? Oh, yeah. It was so funny.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But this was when Sonia Friedman, who was going to produce the TED musical, which, by the way, we have exactly the same kind of problems with theater in the UK in terms of funding. And the TED musical would have kept people employed for years, you know? Yeah. So it's just an outrageous act of censorship that they've destroyed it, you know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But Tom Stoppard was, I was very flattered because I was following a meeting she had with Tom Stoppard. And she said, oh, he's complaining because he doesn't think there should be black people in the Warsaw ghetto, you know. And she said, but he's having them whether he likes it or not. And I thought, well, would you have Jewish people in a play about the Bronx? What are the rules here?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think it's, I don't know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Is diversity only one way? Is it just visual diversity? You know what I mean? But it's extremely important.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, but you know, you were talking about Monty Python, but Terry Gilliam, because the Old Vic Theatre is now run by the people who sell its ice creams, had to take a Stephen Sondheim musical out to Bath to get it on.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think he said that that was overblown. That was a headline. Well, not quite. What happened?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
There's probably not even five good sitcom writers. No, there probably isn't.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, absolutely.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I would say, though, at around the time of Hugo, there would have been just as many impediments to creating art.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
The other was one called The IT Crowd, which was set, was about IT, an IT department. Because we wrote it in around 2005 and I noticed the internet becoming a thing. And I was always told, well, I went to an early Danny Simon course. He was one of the writers on Bilko and a lot of things that Woody Allen worked on. Neil Simon's brother, you know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yes, it's like a flower on a pavement stone.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, you could argue as well that cinema is a very interesting one, because cinema is such a strange marriage of art and economics, you know? Yes. But still, we have these classic films that broke through.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, if there's one thing we do as a species, it's overcorrection. So I quite like the idea of a comic overcorrection.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And he said a sitcom should always be about social change. So if you see something coming around the corner, write about it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yes, the one example he gave was Mary Tyler Marshall. Right, yeah, another great example. Although he used the phrase women's livers, which was very funny. He's this old guy by the way.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But, but, but so yeah, so I wrote the IT crowd, like we have an early parody ad for Facebook. It was so unusual to us. And I still feel that about the internet that we've still all got whiplash and we didn't know what it's done to us as a species. So Father Ted, The It Crowd, and? I'd say the one that might be well known is called Black Books.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
The other is a show called Motherland that was quite successful recently.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think it was about 2016 or 17.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, well, also I had a bit of, you know, Trump derangements. I don't know how you were when he won the first time, but I thought the world was going to end. I was fully taken in by it. by the way he was being portrayed. In fact, what was being done to him was about to be done to me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, I always think of that Muhammad Ali line where he said, you know, the Vietnamese never called me no N-word. And I feel the same way about the left. You know, the right never called me a bigot. And they called me a bigot for basic things like saying, hey, you shouldn't be cutting the breasts off little girls. You shouldn't be... Yep, there's one non-hate crime incident.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
We can keep piling them up. There shouldn't be men in women's prisons. It's actually against the Geneva Convention to put men in women's prisons. Yeah, but what is a man, sir? All over, yeah. There's a terrible story in Ireland. This bloke who was, you know, he had an awful childhood. He was forced by his father to rape his mother, and he was severely disturbed. His name was Barbie Kardashian.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And because Ireland sneaked in self-ID without allowing the people of Ireland to really discuss it, Barbie Kardashian, who hates women with a completely tunnel vision.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Exactly, exactly. He's now sharing living space with female prisoners.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I used to say about the Catholic Church, at least priests had to learn Latin, you know. These guys, all they have to do is put on some eyeshadow, and every door is open to them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, well, the rules change all the time. And that's something I didn't realize as well, is that the rules were very fluid. Just like identity. Yeah, yeah. But it's like they try and pretend that identity is fluid by making the conversation fluid and hard to understand. I mean, part of me is very angry for the fact that no one in my career stood up for me, you know. But another part...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
kind of understands because the language around this issue is so deliberately confusing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, there's an interesting... I can't remember who did the... People are wondering, who the hell is this guy on Graham's left? LAUGHTER I know, I feel terrible that I'm talking so much. But this guy, I can't remember who said it, but he said that during the Nazi years, there's a kind of widespread assumption that everyone was afraid of being tortured by a guy with a dueling scar on his face.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And he says, no, the reason that ordinary Germans went along with it for the most part was because of career advancements. They did not want their careers to stall.