George Packer

An informant because he's speaking. He's speaking about the working class through his own experiences.

An informant because he's speaking. He's speaking about the working class through his own experiences.

An informant because he's speaking. He's speaking about the working class through his own experiences.

Well, at that same time period, I mean, we're talking like 2016, 2017. I want to actually play a clip of Vance speaking at the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics. This was a year after the release of his memoir where he also then started to talk about the appeal of Trump in other ways and more in deeper ways. Let's listen.

Well, at that same time period, I mean, we're talking like 2016, 2017. I want to actually play a clip of Vance speaking at the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics. This was a year after the release of his memoir where he also then started to talk about the appeal of Trump in other ways and more in deeper ways. Let's listen.

Well, at that same time period, I mean, we're talking like 2016, 2017. I want to actually play a clip of Vance speaking at the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics. This was a year after the release of his memoir where he also then started to talk about the appeal of Trump in other ways and more in deeper ways. Let's listen.

So as we can hear there, that was J.D. Vance speaking in 2017, and he's interrogating the mainstream media. He's kind of digging at it, which will become a talking point later. But you also noted around this time he also began to view the policy intellectuals that were around him differently. What changed during that time period for him personally as well?

So as we can hear there, that was J.D. Vance speaking in 2017, and he's interrogating the mainstream media. He's kind of digging at it, which will become a talking point later. But you also noted around this time he also began to view the policy intellectuals that were around him differently. What changed during that time period for him personally as well?

So as we can hear there, that was J.D. Vance speaking in 2017, and he's interrogating the mainstream media. He's kind of digging at it, which will become a talking point later. But you also noted around this time he also began to view the policy intellectuals that were around him differently. What changed during that time period for him personally as well?

Did you try to talk to Vance for this article? And did they respond?

Did you try to talk to Vance for this article? And did they respond?

Did you try to talk to Vance for this article? And did they respond?

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I'm talking to George Packer, staff writer at The Atlantic, about his story, The Talented Mr. Vance, about Vice President J.D. Vance. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air.

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I'm talking to George Packer, staff writer at The Atlantic, about his story, The Talented Mr. Vance, about Vice President J.D. Vance. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air.

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I'm talking to George Packer, staff writer at The Atlantic, about his story, The Talented Mr. Vance, about Vice President J.D. Vance. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air.

Let's talk a little bit about Vance's conversion to Catholicism. This came around the same time as this pivot towards what I guess some might call kind of like a political aggression around 2019, 2020. And of course, we don't know someone's heart. I certainly would never question someone's faith. But his conversion, from your view— Was it more spiritual, more intellectual, more strategic?

Let's talk a little bit about Vance's conversion to Catholicism. This came around the same time as this pivot towards what I guess some might call kind of like a political aggression around 2019, 2020. And of course, we don't know someone's heart. I certainly would never question someone's faith. But his conversion, from your view— Was it more spiritual, more intellectual, more strategic?

Let's talk a little bit about Vance's conversion to Catholicism. This came around the same time as this pivot towards what I guess some might call kind of like a political aggression around 2019, 2020. And of course, we don't know someone's heart. I certainly would never question someone's faith. But his conversion, from your view— Was it more spiritual, more intellectual, more strategic?

You know, up until he entered politics and very specifically until he became vice president, he was a very eloquent speaker. The ability to speak in a way where people from different backgrounds and political ideologies could actually maybe hear some of what he was talking about. But since then, I mean, he has really said some very inflammatory things.

You know, up until he entered politics and very specifically until he became vice president, he was a very eloquent speaker. The ability to speak in a way where people from different backgrounds and political ideologies could actually maybe hear some of what he was talking about. But since then, I mean, he has really said some very inflammatory things.