Geoff White

Yeah, it may start off in crypto and you may turn your nose up at that, but it ends up in hard dollars and hard dollars that can be used to fund criminal activity. and some very serious, as we're going to talk about, some very serious criminal activity.

Yeah, it may start off in crypto and you may turn your nose up at that, but it ends up in hard dollars and hard dollars that can be used to fund criminal activity. and some very serious, as we're going to talk about, some very serious criminal activity.

Good question. I mean, obviously, it very quickly hit the news that this had happened. And in fairness, Sky Mavis did a sort of rolling blog on what had happened and were filling people in. And of course...

Good question. I mean, obviously, it very quickly hit the news that this had happened. And in fairness, Sky Mavis did a sort of rolling blog on what had happened and were filling people in. And of course...

Because it's cryptocurrency and because all cryptocurrency moves across a blockchain, which is almost always publicly available, and particularly when the hackers transferred the money out from Sky Mavis, it was publicly viewable. People start looking at the wallet addresses to which the money is being sent. They start looking at the methodology behind the hack.

Because it's cryptocurrency and because all cryptocurrency moves across a blockchain, which is almost always publicly available, and particularly when the hackers transferred the money out from Sky Mavis, it was publicly viewable. People start looking at the wallet addresses to which the money is being sent. They start looking at the methodology behind the hack.

And very quickly, the name that pops into the frame is North Korea.

And very quickly, the name that pops into the frame is North Korea.

No, that we know of. It's certainly very rare for nation state hackers to be put on the send for money. Of course, North Korea is in this unique situation. North Korea is unique for a lot of reasons, but... The unique situation that they are under international financial sanctions have been for a very long time, have, it seems, largely run out of money or run out of legitimate sources of money.

No, that we know of. It's certainly very rare for nation state hackers to be put on the send for money. Of course, North Korea is in this unique situation. North Korea is unique for a lot of reasons, but... The unique situation that they are under international financial sanctions have been for a very long time, have, it seems, largely run out of money or run out of legitimate sources of money.

And so the accusation is that North Korea's computer hackers are tasked with gaining currency by any means necessary. And that's, from what we know of North Korea, not unusual. Its diplomats historically have been tasked with not just being diplomats, but, you know, can you also make a bit of money on the side, please?

And so the accusation is that North Korea's computer hackers are tasked with gaining currency by any means necessary. And that's, from what we know of North Korea, not unusual. Its diplomats historically have been tasked with not just being diplomats, but, you know, can you also make a bit of money on the side, please?

When you steal cryptocurrency, one of the hazards of this is it's inevitably going to be on a blockchain somewhere, and that's almost inevitably going to be public. And so it's almost like you've gone into the bank and stolen a whole bunch of banknotes, but they're all... fluorescent yellow. And people can see in your pocket that you've got these banknotes.

When you steal cryptocurrency, one of the hazards of this is it's inevitably going to be on a blockchain somewhere, and that's almost inevitably going to be public. And so it's almost like you've gone into the bank and stolen a whole bunch of banknotes, but they're all... fluorescent yellow. And people can see in your pocket that you've got these banknotes.

So your key task as a cryptocurrency thief is to launder the money. And that's why I've written a book about money laundering.

So your key task as a cryptocurrency thief is to launder the money. And that's why I've written a book about money laundering.

That's a very good point. One of the things that people have spoken about is the idea of North Korea sort of setting up a cryptocurrency exchange. I guess the answer to that would probably be, Firstly, there's this idea, I think, with all these thefts that are attributed to North Korea, that North Korea gets the money back to Pyongyang, and that's where its destination is.

That's a very good point. One of the things that people have spoken about is the idea of North Korea sort of setting up a cryptocurrency exchange. I guess the answer to that would probably be, Firstly, there's this idea, I think, with all these thefts that are attributed to North Korea, that North Korea gets the money back to Pyongyang, and that's where its destination is.

Well, there's nothing to buy in Pyongyang. There's no point sending it there. Yes, you could set up a cryptocurrency exchange in Pyongyang, send all the cryptocurrency there, withdraw it in, I think it's still Won is the currency they use, but then you've got North Korean currency in North Korea. What are you going to buy? What was the point of that?

Well, there's nothing to buy in Pyongyang. There's no point sending it there. Yes, you could set up a cryptocurrency exchange in Pyongyang, send all the cryptocurrency there, withdraw it in, I think it's still Won is the currency they use, but then you've got North Korean currency in North Korea. What are you going to buy? What was the point of that?