Elliot Adler

This brings us to the fall of 2023. Joe had announced his intention to retire from the chancellorship at the end of the academic year, and Carmen had more or less given up on her academic career. They also happened to be sitting on a modest collection of sexual videos they had made over the previous decade.

This brings us to the fall of 2023. Joe had announced his intention to retire from the chancellorship at the end of the academic year, and Carmen had more or less given up on her academic career. They also happened to be sitting on a modest collection of sexual videos they had made over the previous decade.

Joe was confident they were in the clear. So much so that even when he received an email from the UW legal team saying they wanted to meet with him regarding a personnel matter, he wasn't worried in the least. This was just before Christmas, 2023.

Joe was confident they were in the clear. So much so that even when he received an email from the UW legal team saying they wanted to meet with him regarding a personnel matter, he wasn't worried in the least. This was just before Christmas, 2023.

The university was especially interested in whether Joe had failed to report money that he had made from his pornographic career. The answer was basically no. Even a million views on Ex Hamster was pennies in advertising. Joe was uneasy, but not overly concerned.

The university was especially interested in whether Joe had failed to report money that he had made from his pornographic career. The answer was basically no. Even a million views on Ex Hamster was pennies in advertising. Joe was uneasy, but not overly concerned.

But what were you feeling?

But what were you feeling?

In December of 2024, I found myself walking through a few inches of fresh snow to the home of Joe Gao and his wife, Carmen Wilson.

In December of 2024, I found myself walking through a few inches of fresh snow to the home of Joe Gao and his wife, Carmen Wilson.

But that's not how things played out. Instead, while on vacation in Florida over Christmas break, at 8 p.m. on December 27.

But that's not how things played out. Instead, while on vacation in Florida over Christmas break, at 8 p.m. on December 27.

How are you feeling during all of this?

How are you feeling during all of this?

Had either of you ever experienced that sort of like emotional drain from whether it was familial, professional sort of thing?

Had either of you ever experienced that sort of like emotional drain from whether it was familial, professional sort of thing?

For the next nine months, Joe fought for his job as a tenured professor, a battle he ultimately lost.

For the next nine months, Joe fought for his job as a tenured professor, a battle he ultimately lost.

Three weeks prior, I'd reached out to the couple to see if they'd be willing to talk about their situation. Within four hours, they had responded with an invite to their home, which, after reparking my car, I was welcomed into. Take two, here we go. Here's Carmen. Hey, Carmen, I'm Elliot.

Three weeks prior, I'd reached out to the couple to see if they'd be willing to talk about their situation. Within four hours, they had responded with an invite to their home, which, after reparking my car, I was welcomed into. Take two, here we go. Here's Carmen. Hey, Carmen, I'm Elliot.

In January of 2025, on the first day of the spring semester, Joe filed a federal lawsuit against the UW system. He claims his dismissal was unconstitutional, violating both his free speech rights and the system's own stated commitment to academic freedom. Where are things now? Are you still making content?

In January of 2025, on the first day of the spring semester, Joe filed a federal lawsuit against the UW system. He claims his dismissal was unconstitutional, violating both his free speech rights and the system's own stated commitment to academic freedom. Where are things now? Are you still making content?

And your videos are still available for purchase, but you're not adding new ones.

And your videos are still available for purchase, but you're not adding new ones.

Does that bring in some money these days?

Does that bring in some money these days?

Even if Joe doesn't get his job back, he's not stepping away from education entirely. He plans to stay connected, just in a different way.

Even if Joe doesn't get his job back, he's not stepping away from education entirely. He plans to stay connected, just in a different way.

Oh, thanks for having me. I love this neighborhood. I love the house. This week on Campus Files, we talk to Joe Gao and Carmen Wilson to hear their side of the story. Joe Gao is a tall, fit, wiry guy in his mid-60s with a pretty full head of salt and pepper hair. Carmen Wilson is a bit younger, has long brown hair with bangs, and that day was wearing a pair of flared, rodeo-appropriate jeans.

Oh, thanks for having me. I love this neighborhood. I love the house. This week on Campus Files, we talk to Joe Gao and Carmen Wilson to hear their side of the story. Joe Gao is a tall, fit, wiry guy in his mid-60s with a pretty full head of salt and pepper hair. Carmen Wilson is a bit younger, has long brown hair with bangs, and that day was wearing a pair of flared, rodeo-appropriate jeans.

Best case scenario, how does it end?

Best case scenario, how does it end?

I don't know if you can equate the two, but what was more traumatic, dealing with the fallout from the videos or losing your career?

I don't know if you can equate the two, but what was more traumatic, dealing with the fallout from the videos or losing your career?

Do you feel like you found a new purpose since then?

Do you feel like you found a new purpose since then?

Special thanks to Joe Gao and Carmen Wilson for inviting us into their home.

Special thanks to Joe Gao and Carmen Wilson for inviting us into their home.

We know where this story ends, but how does a university chancellor start making porn and lose his job because of it? To understand that, we need to hear from Joe's wife, the Garfunkel to his Simon.

We know where this story ends, but how does a university chancellor start making porn and lose his job because of it? To understand that, we need to hear from Joe's wife, the Garfunkel to his Simon.

This is a previous marriage Carmen is talking about long before Joe Gao.

This is a previous marriage Carmen is talking about long before Joe Gao.

This is where Carmen first met Joe. She was on the committee that eventually hired him, and she later became his chief of staff. During this time, Carmen also played bagpipes in Joe's faculty band. So did her soon-to-be ex-husband, and so did Joe's soon-to-be ex-wife. The two couples eventually split. That's when Joe and Carmen got together.

This is where Carmen first met Joe. She was on the committee that eventually hired him, and she later became his chief of staff. During this time, Carmen also played bagpipes in Joe's faculty band. So did her soon-to-be ex-husband, and so did Joe's soon-to-be ex-wife. The two couples eventually split. That's when Joe and Carmen got together.

Now, Campus Files is a show about college life in America. But to truly understand how and why this university chancellor lost his job, we need to go behind closed doors.

Now, Campus Files is a show about college life in America. But to truly understand how and why this university chancellor lost his job, we need to go behind closed doors.

Pretty soon after getting together, in 2011, Carmen left the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse for a new position as Dean of UW Rock County, a small school in southern Wisconsin, which was about three hours away. The couple maintained a long distance relationship while they each led their respective schools.

Pretty soon after getting together, in 2011, Carmen left the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse for a new position as Dean of UW Rock County, a small school in southern Wisconsin, which was about three hours away. The couple maintained a long distance relationship while they each led their respective schools.

which they used to shoot videos of themselves having sex. It was their kink. On weekends, they would visit each other and expand their repertoire in the bedroom. If you don't mind just talking me through, you've got a home camcorder. How do you end up flying out to Las Vegas and hiring known pornographic actors?

which they used to shoot videos of themselves having sex. It was their kink. On weekends, they would visit each other and expand their repertoire in the bedroom. If you don't mind just talking me through, you've got a home camcorder. How do you end up flying out to Las Vegas and hiring known pornographic actors?

This was around 2013, about six years into Joe's chancellorship at UW-La Crosse.

This was around 2013, about six years into Joe's chancellorship at UW-La Crosse.

Not long after their first experience with a porn star, while actually on a work trip to Los Angeles, the couple hired a full production crew. It would just be Joe and Carmen in the scene. But behind the camera, there was a videographer, production assistant, and makeup artist. All of this took place in a penthouse apartment with a view of the Hollywood sign.

Not long after their first experience with a porn star, while actually on a work trip to Los Angeles, the couple hired a full production crew. It would just be Joe and Carmen in the scene. But behind the camera, there was a videographer, production assistant, and makeup artist. All of this took place in a penthouse apartment with a view of the Hollywood sign.

Going forward, about once a year, the couple would fly out to Phoenix or LA or Las Vegas and shoot a scene, sometimes just the two of them on camera, sometimes hiring a porn star to join them.

Going forward, about once a year, the couple would fly out to Phoenix or LA or Las Vegas and shoot a scene, sometimes just the two of them on camera, sometimes hiring a porn star to join them.

Perhaps drawing on their educator instincts, the couple would often interview the porn star during these shoots.

Perhaps drawing on their educator instincts, the couple would often interview the porn star during these shoots.

Joe and Carmen married in 2014. And around this same time, Joe had an idea of a way to kind of spice up the interviews that they were conducting with the porn stars.

Joe and Carmen married in 2014. And around this same time, Joe had an idea of a way to kind of spice up the interviews that they were conducting with the porn stars.

But as you can hear, Joe's wild idea had legs.

But as you can hear, Joe's wild idea had legs.

What is the crew saying? Are they saying, who are you shooting this for? Or is it kind of an understood thing that people shoot boutique porn for themselves?

What is the crew saying? Are they saying, who are you shooting this for? Or is it kind of an understood thing that people shoot boutique porn for themselves?

In a way, and I hope this isn't dismissive, but it sounds like you were cosplaying at being porn stars.

In a way, and I hope this isn't dismissive, but it sounds like you were cosplaying at being porn stars.

No, I'll take it.

No, I'll take it.

And then also kind of cosplaying as having a cooking show.

And then also kind of cosplaying as having a cooking show.

While Joe and Carmen were enjoying this new aspect of their relationship, their work life was changing. Carmen lost her job to budget cuts, and she ended up moving to North Dakota for a new position. It was around this time that both Joe and Carmen started to see some major and troubling changes on their campuses.

While Joe and Carmen were enjoying this new aspect of their relationship, their work life was changing. Carmen lost her job to budget cuts, and she ended up moving to North Dakota for a new position. It was around this time that both Joe and Carmen started to see some major and troubling changes on their campuses.

It was in 2018 that Joe caught tons of flack from his bosses for inviting adult film star and sex educator Nina Hartley to speak on campus.

It was in 2018 that Joe caught tons of flack from his bosses for inviting adult film star and sex educator Nina Hartley to speak on campus.

After four trying years in North Dakota, in 2020, Carmen took a job at a school in Buffalo, New York. Joe was thinking about stepping down as chancellor, and the couple actually bought a house in Buffalo. But within a year of moving, Carmen was forced out of her position. The school was shuttered shortly thereafter.

After four trying years in North Dakota, in 2020, Carmen took a job at a school in Buffalo, New York. Joe was thinking about stepping down as chancellor, and the couple actually bought a house in Buffalo. But within a year of moving, Carmen was forced out of her position. The school was shuttered shortly thereafter.

Alrighty, it is 26 degrees outside. I am in a little neighborhood outside of La Crosse, Wisconsin.

Alrighty, it is 26 degrees outside. I am in a little neighborhood outside of La Crosse, Wisconsin.

This brings us to the fall of 2023. Joe had announced his intention to retire from the chancellorship at the end of the academic year, and Carmen had more or less given up on her academic career. They also happened to be sitting on a modest collection of sexual videos they had made over the previous decade.

Joe was confident they were in the clear. So much so that even when he received an email from the UW legal team saying they wanted to meet with him regarding a personnel matter, he wasn't worried in the least. This was just before Christmas, 2023.

The university was especially interested in whether Joe had failed to report money that he had made from his pornographic career. The answer was basically no. Even a million views on Ex Hamster was pennies in advertising. Joe was uneasy, but not overly concerned.

But what were you feeling?

In December of 2024, I found myself walking through a few inches of fresh snow to the home of Joe Gao and his wife, Carmen Wilson.

But that's not how things played out. Instead, while on vacation in Florida over Christmas break, at 8 p.m. on December 27.

How are you feeling during all of this?

Had either of you ever experienced that sort of like emotional drain from whether it was familial, professional sort of thing?

For the next nine months, Joe fought for his job as a tenured professor, a battle he ultimately lost.

Three weeks prior, I'd reached out to the couple to see if they'd be willing to talk about their situation. Within four hours, they had responded with an invite to their home, which, after reparking my car, I was welcomed into. Take two, here we go. Here's Carmen. Hey, Carmen, I'm Elliot.

In January of 2025, on the first day of the spring semester, Joe filed a federal lawsuit against the UW system. He claims his dismissal was unconstitutional, violating both his free speech rights and the system's own stated commitment to academic freedom. Where are things now? Are you still making content?

And your videos are still available for purchase, but you're not adding new ones.

Does that bring in some money these days?

Even if Joe doesn't get his job back, he's not stepping away from education entirely. He plans to stay connected, just in a different way.

Oh, thanks for having me. I love this neighborhood. I love the house. This week on Campus Files, we talk to Joe Gao and Carmen Wilson to hear their side of the story. Joe Gao is a tall, fit, wiry guy in his mid-60s with a pretty full head of salt and pepper hair. Carmen Wilson is a bit younger, has long brown hair with bangs, and that day was wearing a pair of flared, rodeo-appropriate jeans.

Best case scenario, how does it end?

I don't know if you can equate the two, but what was more traumatic, dealing with the fallout from the videos or losing your career?

Do you feel like you found a new purpose since then?

Special thanks to Joe Gao and Carmen Wilson for inviting us into their home.

We know where this story ends, but how does a university chancellor start making porn and lose his job because of it? To understand that, we need to hear from Joe's wife, the Garfunkel to his Simon.

This is a previous marriage Carmen is talking about long before Joe Gao.

This is where Carmen first met Joe. She was on the committee that eventually hired him, and she later became his chief of staff. During this time, Carmen also played bagpipes in Joe's faculty band. So did her soon-to-be ex-husband, and so did Joe's soon-to-be ex-wife. The two couples eventually split. That's when Joe and Carmen got together.

Now, Campus Files is a show about college life in America. But to truly understand how and why this university chancellor lost his job, we need to go behind closed doors.

Pretty soon after getting together, in 2011, Carmen left the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse for a new position as Dean of UW Rock County, a small school in southern Wisconsin, which was about three hours away. The couple maintained a long distance relationship while they each led their respective schools.

which they used to shoot videos of themselves having sex. It was their kink. On weekends, they would visit each other and expand their repertoire in the bedroom. If you don't mind just talking me through, you've got a home camcorder. How do you end up flying out to Las Vegas and hiring known pornographic actors?

This was around 2013, about six years into Joe's chancellorship at UW-La Crosse.

Not long after their first experience with a porn star, while actually on a work trip to Los Angeles, the couple hired a full production crew. It would just be Joe and Carmen in the scene. But behind the camera, there was a videographer, production assistant, and makeup artist. All of this took place in a penthouse apartment with a view of the Hollywood sign.

Going forward, about once a year, the couple would fly out to Phoenix or LA or Las Vegas and shoot a scene, sometimes just the two of them on camera, sometimes hiring a porn star to join them.

Perhaps drawing on their educator instincts, the couple would often interview the porn star during these shoots.

Joe and Carmen married in 2014. And around this same time, Joe had an idea of a way to kind of spice up the interviews that they were conducting with the porn stars.

But as you can hear, Joe's wild idea had legs.

What is the crew saying? Are they saying, who are you shooting this for? Or is it kind of an understood thing that people shoot boutique porn for themselves?

In a way, and I hope this isn't dismissive, but it sounds like you were cosplaying at being porn stars.

No, I'll take it.

And then also kind of cosplaying as having a cooking show.

While Joe and Carmen were enjoying this new aspect of their relationship, their work life was changing. Carmen lost her job to budget cuts, and she ended up moving to North Dakota for a new position. It was around this time that both Joe and Carmen started to see some major and troubling changes on their campuses.

It was in 2018 that Joe caught tons of flack from his bosses for inviting adult film star and sex educator Nina Hartley to speak on campus.

After four trying years in North Dakota, in 2020, Carmen took a job at a school in Buffalo, New York. Joe was thinking about stepping down as chancellor, and the couple actually bought a house in Buffalo. But within a year of moving, Carmen was forced out of her position. The school was shuttered shortly thereafter.

Alrighty, it is 26 degrees outside. I am in a little neighborhood outside of La Crosse, Wisconsin.