Elizabeth Berger
Appearances
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
To remain flexible of mind can be difficult.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It can be difficult. That's part of that 85% that you and I have talked about, where it's like, all right, I'm going to get this down, and then I got to leave a lot of room for everybody else's input, everybody else's ideas, everybody else's, oh, we're not shooting at this location. It's now here.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
There's a jet flying over. Oh, it's now inside, and I'm by myself in front of a green screen? OK, great. that type of flexibility can be hard for me. I get stuck. I can get stuck a lot.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
All right. I've had it. Let's talk about travel. Everyone's got their own idea of the perfect getaway. Mine is to the mountains, I think. A lot of people like warm getaways. I like a cozy. I like a cozy, cold getaway where it's cold outside but warm inside. Maybe with a little hot tub out on a deck somewhere.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yes.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So last season, we're about to do it again. We're going to take the kids up to Big Bear.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Get a little snow, put them on something that slides and push them down a mountain. I love that. And we found a nice cozy little spot, like I said, a little hot tub on the deck. We did the same thing last season at Lake Arrowhead.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And here's the thing. While you're off making those kinds of memories, your home could be doing the same for someone else. So why not list your place on Airbnb while you're away? Maybe there's a family looking for a spot just like yours or someone just needing a place that feels right.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So what are we doing now? So what are we doing now? I don't know. The last few days, my brain has been all over the place and I'm feeling very ungrounded. Really? Yeah, yeah. I'm flighty and forgetting things and trying to resettle in myself. Trying to find a new equilibrium. I keep injuring myself. which is always a bad sign.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Did you guys have a car in your family that was like the Wagoneer? Yeah. Do you remember a car that spanned a length of time?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like dislocating a knee and pulling. Oh, wow. No, like injury. Are you okay? I'm all right. He's okay. Everything's fine. Okay, okay. But things, yeah, things feel... unsettled. So, yeah. It's in the air. I've been very excited to see you guys. Yeah, me too.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, yeah. Cars, my dad is a car person. Yes. He has a classic car. I have a classic car. My brother has a classic car.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I was literally under the car. I was under the car and my phone started buzzing. And I was like, what is going on? And I checked and Sterling had texted and right after that was Chrissy. And then the group text went off and I was like, oh, something's happening today. Because being nominated for it was so far out of my realm that I didn't even know today was the day that that happened. Yes, sir.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And so I had to do a bunch of press from the garage. And so I zoomed into a bunch of interviews from the garage covered in sweat. Gargoyles. But yeah, growing up, we were also a van family and we filtered through a couple of like the MPV or the Previa.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, a real ugly car. And then once, but once we got through like trashing a couple of vans, there was a moment where my parents, I think they had like this Jack and Rebecca moment where it's like, all right, it's time for an adult car.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It was a 1990, not far off from that Wagoneer because the Wagoneer is also a 90, an 89, 90, uh, Toyota Land Cruiser. So same type of vehicle, but it was like the adult car. Yeah. And we had that car. Yeah. For like.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
20 25 years when my parents sold it it had 300 000 miles yes sir again i have all like as i was watching this episode i have all these flashbacks of things that happened with that car the places we went in that car the people that kissed in that car you know like the the dances i went to in that you know like the drive-in movies that open up the back gate like all of these things like and it was and i've always and i've always i don't know there's there's something the the idea of a family car has always
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
just been in me because of my dad's affection for cars and his, you know, my, my, I still have my first car that I got that the Mustang I've told you guys this story, you know, that I, I had this car, I sold it in the year 2000. And then when we came back here to do this as us, I was like, I have like people now.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And my lawyer gave me the number of private investigator and the private investigator found the car and bought the car back, restored the car. It's in the garage that I'll keep. It's like a family heirloom now. So yeah, there's something about the family car that... That resonates. Yeah, for me specifically. This whole episode was...
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And of course, I'd have the Wagoneer, which is now our family car. Our daily driver. It dropped bare off this morning. And you knew you were going to get it. You had your eyes on it. Well, again, it was like a realization. Like, oh, at the end of this, they're going to sell those. Yeah. Because Rachel saw it. Yeah. And she doesn't have the same love for classics that I do.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
But when she saw it on the show, she was like, that is a cool car. And I like stored that away. And I was like, okay, all right. Okay.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I know, I know.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Jafarophobia.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Whoever's naming phobias, by the way. What a cool job. Cool job. Also, they're screwing it up completely.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
We talked about this on that other podcast.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
On Darcy Carden's podcast. Because none of them sound like the thing that you're afraid of.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I just saw a story. I'm not sure where it is. It might be in Florida. There's a lot of long bridges in Florida. Sure, sure. Across the Keys.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
There is a service for people who are afraid to drive across bridges.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You park your car at one end and they come and meet you and drive you across the bridge and offer you support. Like this Jafarophobia is like paralyzing for some people. And there was a whole story about this woman who couldn't do it. And so there's literally a service that you can call who will come. You can even make an appointment.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
if it swings.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Even as she played it, I was like, I used to like this music. And now, do I like this music?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I was like, I used to love this album.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Of course it is. Of course it is. Don't get me wrong.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Isn't it ironic? But it has... it is a very specific gun with a very specific aim. Of like emotional fraughtness that I'm like, I'm not that kind of fraught anymore.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yes, Dad. Let me tell you something about Pink Pony Club, okay? Pink Pony Club... I don't even have anything.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Is that this episode too where he has that conversation with you, with Rebecca?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
About you're going to live forever.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Which is such an interesting way to frame it. It turns him into a little bit of a mystical character. Agreed. Because it's like, it comes right after 214. Yeah. And you're like, okay.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So I encourage you. Is that something that you keep telling them over and over again because you're trying to find that moment when it hits?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
So I totally understand that, that idea of like- It's such an odd human, because I'm in the same situation. So I wonder what, it's such a strange way for human beings to naturally be.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
To just resist. Yeah. Resist the connection.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Maybe. Yeah, man, they were on Rachel this morning. As soon as somebody is like, hey mom, can you hold? No, you hold me. No, hold me. No, and it's like this, and they get violent with her and she can't like, and he, Bear is so strong. That's a big bear. That she like can't fight them off. And like-
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That's what was, she was in bed. She hadn't even gotten up yet. And they, and Bear was like, I'm going to go, I'm going to go cuddle mom. And Aoife heard it and was like, she jumped out of her chair and just started running towards Rachel. I'm going to get there first. And they both were on her like headbutting each other. And she's like, guys, guys, knock it off.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And I just, I stare at it and I'm like, what is, what is this? Yeah. What is this?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You guys, we started out with Quince, and, you know, I ordered a pair of pants and a t-shirt. Basics. They were so soft, so nice. I cannot stop shopping on this website. Quince, seriously, has everything. They offer a range of high-quality items at prices within reach, like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for $50, washable silk tops and dresses, and 14-karat gold jewelry.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And for the little ones, this is what I was talking about. They have this stellar selection of bamboo onesies and organic cotton PJ sets and tons of cute prints for babies and toddlers. Plus, they have the sweetest cashmere cardigan and coordinating beanie range. Real cute stuff. And the best part?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And hot take, this is where we learn that it's all Kate's fault.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Oh, good, there's an adult here.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And he is the function that Jack is talking about with siblings. It's like, these are the people who are going to know everything. Right. Who are going to know exactly what you went through, know exactly what you've been through. And Dr. K has that. Quality for the family, for the entire family.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I was a very busy man. And here's this guy who was so afraid.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That's always one of the, one of the, things that's hard to fathom for me when stuff like this happens. You're dealing with the thing that happened and now you're dealing with paperwork. Yeah. And phone calls. Yeah. And like, even in this episode, you know, you lose, you lose in this episode of This Is Us, you lose someone. Now you have to plan a funeral.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Now you have to like deal with appointments. Life continues. And it just doesn't seem like...
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That was an interesting turn too. That was a moment of like, and I need you to help me. Yeah. which is a real vulnerable thing for Jack to ask this stranger.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
But Mel was like, Mel had a kind face. I was like, Mel's gonna come through. I wish I knew that actor's name. He's a comedian. He's hysterical.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
All right, we are back. We recently spoke with Isaac and Elizabeth. Yes, we did. Our showrunners, but they've come back to join us to talk about 215. Yes. One of the many episodes that they wrote. Them very selves. With them very hands. Thank you guys for coming back. We appreciate you so much. The episode is called The Car. Do you still own that car? You took that car, right?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It's out in the parking lot right now. It's my daily driver. That's so cool. That's your regular car? I drive it every day.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I take care of the school in it.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That's amazing. We got it sorted. Mandy told me about the car before I bought it. She's like, just so you know, it's real hard to drive. And I was like, what does that mean? And I got in it and I'm bouncing all over the road, left, right, left, right, left, right. And it turns out that whoever was never had it aligned. Oh, really? So it was literally pigeon toed.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And so if you turned left, the car was like, and I got it aligned and it like- It's fine.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
When we crashed that thing, we swerved it.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, it's all over the place. Anyways, it's doing great. Good, I'm glad. It says hello. Yes. When, at what point in the writer's room process were you assigned this episode? How did it break around the car? What was the idea to kind of make that the, I don't know what you call it, the fulcrum that everything-
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
We definitely call one of the perks of like, obviously Dan got first dibs on episodes and then we got second dibs. So we called this one pretty early. I remember that we were like, obviously he's writing Jack's death and then we want, we want the aftermath.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yeah, and also, I mean, it's an episode about Rebecca, like literally and metaphorically getting into the driver's seat and taking on these kids by herself. And like, so sort of seeing the, making the car this very literal manifestation of that felt like it set up this, lovely ending where Mandy is sort of taking on these three kids and she's determined to take them into the future without Jack.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
It's a beautiful metaphor to focus on. I have a love of automobiles, obviously. I have a love for this automobile. I still have the first car I ever bought. It's a Mustang that I sold.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You bought it back, right? Yeah, I remember this story.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I found it, tracked it, sold it. regretted it instantly, and 10 years later, found it. I remember the family car that my parents had that was like a literal death- Family member? Yeah. Yeah. And they drove it to 300,000 miles. Wow. And when they sold it, it was like, what? do we need the four grand that bad? You know what I mean? But also why hold onto it?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Cars are just very interesting things because they are one of the inventions of the human race that is a human. It involves care. It takes fuel. It has a heart. It beats blood. It has blood running through its system. And so this- That was good.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That was like full Don Draper car commercial right there.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
But this car, and I can only, this car in particular, the 1990, Grand Wagoneer holds a place in people's minds, even if they've never had one.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And it sits in this sweet spot of like, it's not like a classic car. Like it's not unattainable and it's not irresponsible. Like it's not a hot rod, it's not a Model T. But it's also not new. The newest thing on it, it has a digital clock. You know what I mean?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And I get so many people, having nothing to do with the show, who need to talk to me about this car, who need to touch it, who need to photograph it, who have questions about it. Happened twice today already. Happens every time I go out. Every stoplight. And it connects people. It's a fascinating thing.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Once it's happened. And did they ask if it was the car? Yes.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Once people recognized me and the car, we're like, is this the, yeah. But yeah, so it's a fascinating, and it's also such a subtle, connector in our show. Like, there it is in the background. There it is in the driveway. Like, it's always there. As we get into the teenage years, there it is under a tarp in the driveway. Like, the eras that this vehicle has seen
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
He was so horny in the beginning. He was very horny. I was just wondering. That's a little less horny. First few episodes, shockingly horny. Whoa, Toby.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Oh yeah, 100%. I think that this episode is that turning point in the series. And I think it's really intentional that Rebecca talks in the episode about being unsure if she wanted kids. And Jack was the one who saw it and really, and she is so glad she had them, but now she's left with these three and it's like, it is all on her from here on in.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And there's that scene with Dr. K where he gives her what she needs to get in that driver's seat and face her fear of bridges, but really, of course, much more than bridges. Yeah. And yeah, and just be there and raise her children.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Dr. K is an interesting... segue into this, we've talked about it a lot about the population of our show as far as the actors go. And it's completely populated with people from television history. Oh yeah.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Is that intentional?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Television goats. Television goats that make it feel, but it's so like seamlessly done, but it makes it feel like this is my, you're watching, this is my world. I know these people.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
maybe i can't play from brad garrett and yeah yeah which was so hard to get them because the show hadn't been on and no one knew and we were like we really want to set a precedent here that we can get great tv stars to do these parts and somehow we got them and then from there on it was this a constant discussion about who like how can we how can we take you know these these tv goats as you as you call them and and place them strategically through the show or
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
How did that play out?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I feel like Dan has something on Ron Howard though. He's in Only Murders too. I feel like Dan is like, no, no, you're gonna do it.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Ron was in the middle of directing his huge Star Wars movie in London and we needed him. And he was like, guys, I'm like, it's kind of like a job. We were like, all right, we'll fly someone to you. Can you give us your lunch break? And on his lunch break of directing Star Wars, he shot a scene for us in London. Like that's how cool Ron Howard is. Amazing. That's also how cool the show is.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That's how big the dirt is.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
One person.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Well, thanks for coming back and talking to us again. Of course. Of course.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Now you can say it.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Yes. Why did I say it like that? Yes. Oh, yes. We love getting... Oh, my God. Yes. We love getting your messages.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Called it, called it.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That's right.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You glad you read this one?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I always think it's the exact right amount.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Sterling, we love how much you talk. I love the sound of your voice. I love the amount of your voice. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. This is kind of the overarching lesson of this episode, right? We have these fears. We have these kind of root fears. And there is nothing more challenging than when we are faced with them. And then we realize not only Can I survive this?
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
But everything is going to be okay. Okay. And it's really, it's a hard thing to get out in front of. Yes, it is. And to release those... That's the tragedy, right? It's hard to let go of those fears without them actually... Happening. Happening.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
You guide us through the conversation.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
For every time in my life where I have been in a position where I thought I will never get over this or I'm not going to make it. I now look back and I can't think of a better word right now, but I'm like, what a silly boy. What a silly boy. an overdramatic, not that those feelings aren't real and not that they're not valid, but I'm beginning to learn.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I'm beginning to learn by looking back at those times. Remember when you thought you'd never get over that person or you'd never be in love again or you'd never get another job or whatever the fear was.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Please don't stop talking.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And it's still there, but it's not controlling. Sure. And it doesn't, and maybe that is part of the dysregulation that I'm feeling right now, but it's like, I don't allow it to be all-consuming.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And you and I look at each other and we're like.
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The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
I don't allow it to steer the ship.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Episode 215. Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
moments of pain are for them. Yeah. Yes. Like that avoiding them does nobody any good. Yeah. Or going around them does nobody any good. Yeah. That you have to experience it.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Remember? Do you remember that?
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Gotta go through it.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That was us.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Turns into like a Chris Farley interview.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Remember the time? Yeah.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Let's get that one person on the phone right now. Let's go to the phones.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
End of November.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
And you're trying to stay in that place. My brain immediately rockets me to six months in the future where I'm standing in an ADR booth. by myself in front of a microphone, trying to match any kind of emotional intensity.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
March.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
That was dumb. For any audience member who does want to pay attention too much, it usually happens when you hear an actor talking and the camera is not on their face.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Because that's the easiest way to get information that they should have gotten on the day that they forgot. It's quickly been rewritten.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
takes a little bit more manufacturing than when you're actually in the space. So you're out in this field by this tree.
That Was Us
The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker
Everything is good. Life, whenever a project ends, I have a little bit of relief. And then there's about 48 hours before I text my entire team and go, so what, so...
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
He was welcomed into a much more normal world where we had community and friends. And I think that made the biggest difference. But I'm curious what you think.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yeah. Sure. I mean, just personally, I mean, anxiety is something that I've dealt with that I've seen other people very close to me deal with. And it's something that I talked about, you know, freely in those beginning weeks of the show and something that sort of went into Randall's character in a huge way. And I think...
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
That I think is also what's so powerful is that then I got to see it reflected in this man, which feels so different than me. So you got to see the way very different people experienced things, but also people were experiencing things that also felt universal.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I think that was what I also take away is that if you can find something that is both very specific to one man, but also universal to so many people, that combination I think was just kind of magic. Have such an impact, yeah. Yeah.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I can't. That sounds really bad. That would be worse than corn sandwiches.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
No woman is ever doing that.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I mean, you guys were so good. I think what we just started realizing was the range of everyone. Was that everyone could be super funny, but then could go to these very quiet places. Everyone could do everything. And I think that was so exciting to realize. I mean, I remember when we were just sort of like, is this going to work? Mandy's going to wear old age makeup? How is this going to go?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And then we were like, oh, she's brilliant at this. And then that opens up an entire world. And then like, yes, with you guys to see that you could carry these comedy scenes, but also be brilliant, dramatic actors. I mean, you just, and then the voices were so specific. So you started to just, we could just hear you guys so clearly because it was so specific. And that made it all very easy.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It's huge. You're like, oh, this is what it's supposed to be like. You have a baby, people come visit, you go places, you sit in the park with your friends. We didn't have that for a very long time. So I think, yeah, that's hugely different.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Okay, bad pitch. It's an easy way to hide.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It's not great when you don't get it. I mean, I remember the first couple of weeks of This Is Us, I just thought everyone was so smart. Like I was so intimidated by the writing staff because every time anyone opened their mouth, it just seemed so impressive to me. KJ Steinberg, one of our writers came in with just like, a pre-planned monologue that was so beautiful about a pitch.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And I remember just being like, holy shit, this is scary. Really?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I need guest speakers. Jess booked a lot. He did a lot. I mean, we really wanted it to be authentic and we wanted to get things right. So it was a lot of that. Yeah. But yeah, it's nerve wracking. I mean, I will tell you too, in terms of nerve wracking, Isaac and I became co-showrunners with Dan halfway through season one.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
So literally, we left the writer's room one day, not showrunners, and then had to return to it as showrunners. Oh, so the hierarchy shifts.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yes. And also like that sort of mental gymnastics for myself of like, okay, now I'm going to sit back down at the table and I need to like sort of project that I know how to do this.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
The most imposter syndrome, if I'm using that correctly, that I've ever had. And the writers make fun of me because they said that I sat down and that like, purely from nerves, like my voice literally dropped like an octave and I was just like, hello. Because I was terrified. I am your new boss.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But you kind of, and I'm sure you guys have your version of this, of just sort of just faking that you believe you can do something. Every time I go on set. Every day. Yeah, every time.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
He was honorary writer.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Totally. Totally. I think we did okay, guys. We did pretty well. I was thinking, and rewatching the show recently, I was like, wow, this is very interesting. We all, we acted this, we wrote this without really doing it. And I think we did pretty good. I was like, this is what it feels like. It's a good show.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
That was a big rearrange. And then, I mean, I don't remember too many, like, paths not taken that I've been bummed about. I mean, we really did do most of the stuff we planned. But we did, what I remember are just sort of the passionate debate days. I mean, we got in, I remember going at it with Dan because he had this notion of Randall and Beth having another child. Yeah.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
and Beth getting accidentally pregnant. And I was infuriated. I think it was because I was pregnant at the time, expecting my second. And the idea of like- You can't do this to me, Dan. I mean, Beth. Something about it where I was like, that's not what Beth wants. And he was like really trying to. And it was one of those days where we just went back and forth.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yes. And then we were Dan and I were, of course, texting offlining about like that. We respect each other's opinions. I mean, it didn't happen much, but it got heated. It got heated. And then that was one that, you know, didn't end up happening. And then one where Dan was right was that I was heated about was like not.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
being sure if we should do our Alzheimer's storyline and like just being like, and that was another one that the writers, like we discussed endlessly. And I was like, it's too sad. And our audience has been through enough. And I don't know, I think that it might be too much. And he was right. You know, he said, it's going to connect with so many people. We're going to handle it beautifully.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Mandy's going to be extraordinary and it's going to be so meaningful. You were right too. It was so sad. It was so sad.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yeah, that was one. And again, some of these you know about early, but you're still, as you approach it, you're like, are we really going to go this way?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
What Chris is saying, it's like you can, we wanted to show that it can get really sad and unexpected and it can still be okay. And that is such a reality for so many people that you fall in love and you get married and you think it's gonna work and you can't imagine it's not gonna work and it doesn't work and it's devastating and then life goes on.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But yeah, that was one that was sort of part of the fabric pretty early.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It wasn't easy. I mean, we definitely, like, everyone... loved the show, but we also just kept coming back to, oh, but it feels right. And it really feels like we've told the story now so completely.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I kind of believe that you both. A few gray hairs.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I think Sterling, you nailed it, which was Nikki and that relationship and Vietnam as an engine for season three. We were like, that was huge for us. We were like, wow, we have now another season of the show that is going to feel completely different and it's going to sort of fuel the entire season.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And then it did get harder because we had those flash forwards, but it was a little smaller after that. It was a little bit more intimate in terms of most of the week to week stories and they became a little bit, more grounded without that element to it. And that was challenging.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It was a pretty healthy staff. What were we, like 15?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
So I think then it was sort of about, okay, like we don't have that kind of big thing sort of fueling these last couple of seasons.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
It wasn't as big, yeah. It would vary. It would vary, but I think we were always at least 12, I would say. 12 to 15, yeah. Wow.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I think, what's the one we opened, season four?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yes, where we sort of follow new people for a premiere. A whole episode where the entire audience is like, who is this? Why is this? That was a lot of conversation. That was one where we were all just, and even Dan, like we would just be like, I don't know. Like, let's see what happens.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yes. A lot of conversation. But Mandy, I think to your point, like people trusted us by then and we had earned so much goodwill, I think, and trust that they were able to go for the ride. Like we might've gotten a few angry tweets of where are the people that I love and that I tuned in to see.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But overall, like people went with it and they, what also was so cool was how they learned the language of our show and the timelines. Like at first it was like, will it be confusing to be in two different timelines? And then it was like, we can do, eight timelines. And people like really went with it.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And they somehow like sort of expanded sort of their minds in terms of what they could follow in terms of all these different ways that we would jump around.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
That was the hardest thing we've ever done. With her.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
In terms of a Dan date that I just learned this term, where he was like, and then they're going to meet in the middle. And we were like, don't know what that means, but we're going to go write it. Sounds great, boss.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
What is that? Meet in the middle. Yeah, it was, that was wild.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
That is totally accurate. I mean, what was amazing about what Dan did is Dan, we had our pilot. Dan came in and he had pretty much had the idea for episodes two and Yeah, which was so nice. In his head, which was incredible. But then what we all did very early on those first weeks is we sort of mapped out big picture, the giant moves of the series.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
That whole trilogy I think is pretty unbelievable.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We just want to give you a little bit of love.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
No, it's really fun. We're working with Justin Tranter, who's an unbelievable pop songwriter, and he's amazing. We're working with Jessica Yu. Jessica Yu did a bunch of This Is Uses for us and Quiz Lady. So it's a lot of really talented people, and it is something completely different for us. Yeah.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Two of those. And Love. Three seasons of Love, Victor.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We did Love, Simon. We did Love, Simon. I want you back. But yeah, we have fun stuff cooking. We got a project with Mandy coming up. Hopefully. That's why she got all dressed up.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I mean, we started with season one and then we were all so lucky. As you guys know, we got our pickup pretty early for the next two seasons. And then we were doing so well that we kind of knew sort of big picture what the whole series looked like and how long it was going to be. So those big moves of like, You know, when do you find out how Jack died? When do you find out this?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
You know, we worked all of that out pretty early.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We're very happy to be here. It just feels so cozy. It feels so nice.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
We had no idea that this was happening.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I can't, but we still did pretty well. We had never had secrets leaked.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Interesting. Well, Dan's the most closely we've ever worked with a third. And I think it was- With a third. We were so lucky. I mean, I think it can be a hard relationship, the sort of creator and then showrunners who work alongside that person relationship. We just, we get along so well and we already knew each other by the time we took the job, how many years?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I had my son halfway through season three.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Sure, I can. We met in college. It was a long time. We met at NYU. We went to Tisch together and we were dramatic writing majors. And we met there and we became friends there. And then we moved to LA at the same time, sort of with the intention of becoming writing partners professionally. We got signed and we shared a manager with this Dan Fogelman character.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And we wrote a screenplay. And while Dan was shooting Crazy Stupid Love, which he had written. With John and Glenn, who did This Is Us. Our manager slipped him the script that we had written. And Dan was, so the story goes, just sort of on set of Crazy Stupid Love, sort of giggling at our script being like, who are these young whippersnappers? I'd like to meet them one day.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And then he came back when he came back to L.A.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And a three-year-old in the middle. That's the one I'm talking about. The three-year-old was the one that you were at the end of the shoot.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But I should not run it.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But I did, I printed it out eventually for Dan, but he wrote us an email that was like, I think I have a role for you guys on this. This is us one. But like, you have to like promise me that you're going to take it seriously. I mean, I know it's very Dan, but I wrote back to him and I was, at the time I was very earnest. I was just like, I promise you, we're gonna take this so seriously.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I was so nervous. And then we started doing that. But yes, to your question, like we worked so closely with Dan. Every day was sort of, it was always dividing and conquering, but our favorite place I think to be was in the writer's room with him just slowly hashing things out. But it was just nonstop, the three of us huddled and figuring it out.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I mean, Dan was really smart. Some writers rooms are very like, it's all about the hierarchy and who has the most experience. I think what Dan did so well was that he recognized that you could be the youngest, newest writer in a room, but you could also be really brilliant and have a take on something.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And he was not the type to just be like, well, this is the co-executive producer and they're going to go. He really tried to match writers with what felt, you know, right for them. And that I think you can kind of feel in the writing of the show that someone who is connecting really authentically is in charge of writing that episode.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Was there any? Definitely. because there are ideas like the car or like certain things where people were like, oh man, that would be a really special one. But we also like, the bar was very high for every episode. So everything kind of had that specialness to it.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yeah. I mean, I think you have to be very lucky. It's not, I mean, it's a relationship that I would say, I mean, we say all the time, we spend probably more time together than we do with our families, our spouses, our children. We're striving for more balance, but it's still the case. I mean, you have to really like being around each other and you have to really respect each other.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
And then I think you also have to grow together. I mean, we're very different. We met when we were 20 and 18. I'm not going to tell you who's older.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But if you're watching on YouTube, you just saw the gesture. If you are watching this, you will see.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
You have more experience, so I'm gonna- Nothing was harder than one to two. One to two was the biggest job. It was also, it was like, my son was 21 months old. We had been living through a pandemic We were very isolated. By the time she was born, my daughter, we were running on empty, I would say. My son was welcomed into a much more, my third child. Second son. Second son. It's very confusing.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But yeah, you have to adjust. You have to realize that your schedules aren't going to be the same as when you were 25 years old and you could work and pull all-nighters. You have to adjust for children and relationships. And we've been really lucky that we've been able to do that together.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I mean, like... Yeah, I mean, it's like we do... You know what I mean?
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Yes, they are. I mean, it's like, it's the kind of thing where Isaac and I, like, we see each other all the time. Like, if we see each other on the weekend, we enjoy it and it happens, but it's not like we're just, every weekend we're like, hey, what are you doing this weekend? I miss you. Yeah.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
But it's like, but yes, all of those, they are our littlest, our sons, our babies play together almost every day. Oh my gosh, I love that. We're not there, but it's okay. But they send us video.
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
I mean, I wonder if it's similar for you guys, but I think. The level to which it resonated and how much it meant to people, we couldn't prepare for that. That was so shocking. I say this to Isaac, but when people that don't know me meet me and say, what do you do? I still want to tell them that I ran This Is Us, even though
That Was Us
Isaac Aptaker & Elizabeth Berger and Us | Showrunners of This Is Us
Even though time has passed because I know what it meant to people and what it meant to me to be part of something that meant so much to people. Like it's the, it remains the seminal, at least professional experience of my life thus far. And it's going to be hard to match.