Eddie Johnson
Appearances
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I know he's not happy. And so being not happy, you would like to think that he's going to just ramp himself up even more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You know what? Really what it is, is now we're seeing what his teammates have been saying, but we didn't believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But his teammates still loved him. You didn't hear his teammates get on him. So I think what we're seeing now... is what the full beauty of Kyrie, right? Without the stuff that was going on. Because his teammates in the locker room, man, you talk, you listen, or you watch. I mean, dude paying guys fines. Like, I mean, it's the stuff like that that he does that a lot of stars don't do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, no, I agree. I totally agree. He did. I got on him. I mean, I got on him totally during the COVID situation and all of that. But what I'm saying is the things that I've heard about him is he's a great teammate. And so now we're able to see it and not worry about the other stuff. I would say it was all...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, everybody has run-ins. Come on. But I just think that was more team-oriented attitude from Kyrie than his teammates. And that's why Jalen Brown is friends with him again because he understands that now. It wasn't personal with the players. It was more directed at the team, I believe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah. Yeah. And it's good to see those two guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I mean, oh, what do you mean? Say it again now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Charles. Charles was unbelievable. You say what you want about Charles, and I know Scotty has something out there about Charles in regards to playing with him and all of that. But Scotty just can't. He can't admit and say that Charles wasn't a great dude, man. He's one of the best teammates I've ever had. And they had him for a short period of time. But I've had some great teammates.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I mean, Nate McMillan. Gary Payton was a great teammate. Really? Oh, yeah, without a doubt. That was my guy, man. Like, you know, he was brash. You know, he would say, but I love that about him. But, no, he was a great teammate. And so there's a lot of guys out there that were, but they never got the –
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You know, the respect or the admiration because of things that maybe was outside the game with them. But Charles, man, that dude, man. I'm telling you, he's one of the best teammates I've ever had.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Oh, that's fine. I didn't have any bad teammates, worst teammates, but I'll tell you this, and he's not here anymore. Oh, that's good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, I crapped on him when he was alive, and I even crapped on him to his face because he was just a surly guy. But Quentin Daly, like, Quentin Daly was an unbelievable basketball player. He scored 15 points in eight minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But he was just always in a bad mood. He's just moody. And it just bothered me. And he and I, we butted heads all the time in Seattle, man, when he was there. But he might have been the most surliest teammate I've ever been around. But you wanted him in the game because he could score quickly. And that was fascinating about him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But here's the thing. Does it carry forward? Yes, it does. dude was MVP of the conference finals and MVP of the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He's making the All-Star team. We've had some great players that didn't have great years, but he won a title last year. He's got those two accolades. It's going to be hard to keep him off the All-Star team now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, I would agree with you there. I think he would have given him a run for his money. I'm happy Garland made it. I think Cleveland deserved three on that. And I truly do. I think it was even between he and, you know, and Donovan Mitchell, in my estimation. I'm happy for Mobley because he could have been an odd man out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
It helps Miami, too. It really helps Miami that Tyler Herro made it. Because it kind of justifies why they changed their offense and kind of went away from Jimmy as much as they used to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
It's a lot. I just think it's a lot. I think Jonathan Kaminga could be the next Butler. Who knows? I think he's just that good. I just think he's raw still. I think he sometimes gets out of character of what he is at this present moment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So what's he worth? I think he's that good, man. I do. I think from the, look, think about it from how he's had to evolve as a player, like with Steph and Clay, you know, not, you're not taking shots early in the shot clock. You're not trying to dribble it up on the break and be creative. You couldn't do all of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You can get a little bit of it done now because Clay's not there, but just based on what I've seen from him this year, I just don't think they want to give him up. And if they do, I think it's going to pay a price because Butler's what? I mean, what, three years, maybe four at the most left? And you got a young player in Kaminga.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think Miami, if they could do that deal, they'd jump all over that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They're being fooled right now, I believe. That's what it is. I think they beat Oklahoma City and then all of a sudden they think, oh man, all we need to do is just add something. So they have a conundrum right now. And the only reason they're going to keep winning games like that is because of the coaching of Steve Kerr, because of the greatness of Steph Curry. That's why.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So they'll beat good teams and you'll start to think, oh, OK, maybe, maybe we add somebody. I think it's a mistake. I do. I've said that. I think it's a mistake. I know Curry will never give in to being traded, but I just think it's a mistake. I think their run is over with this group. And, you know, but again, I just think that they're going to win some games, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They're going to beat some teams and you're going to say, maybe they can do it again because they did it a couple of years ago. So it's not like they don't reach back to something and say, we've done it before. And I think that's part of their problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I got a question for you. I got a question for you, Bill. Yeah. So say if Golden State had two players in front of them to trade for, Derek White or Devin Booker, who you think they want? Well, Devin Booker, he's a better basketball player. I saw something where you had Derek White being a better trade chip.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, I just wanted to explain to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Classic fake news from Eddie. Hold up, muscle nose. Put the camera back on Justin Termini. How dare you say that? The only reason I brought it up is because somebody told me that's what was said.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Jalen Williams, really?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
That's the whole point of a trade asset. So it's not about talent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
What makes you think that you would be the host and he would be the analyst?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Hey, Bill, you see the ego on this crazed animal? Like, he's putting you in the analyst's seat. Yeah, that's fine. It's the water boss show. It's the water boss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think the West is wide open. I do. You got your talent at the top, but I think anything can happen. So that's why I think the teams in the West are going to be trying to be aggressive in the following week before the trade deadline to see if they can get that key player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think Oklahoma City is vulnerable because they're small. Even if they bring Chet and they have Hardenstein, I still say they're small because they're going to play small ball. Even with those guys, they're going to rotate to small guys. And I just never see that really working in the finals. The Celtics people looked at them. They weren't small. Jalen Brown looks like a mini Hercules.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
People see these dudes up close. They'll see how big they are. And so it's a different animal. But you brought up Houston. I don't think Houston's getting out of the West to the finals, but I would bet money that Boston wouldn't want to see them if they were on the other end of that. Because the one team I think matches up with them with physicality and a nastiness is Houston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He will. I honestly believe, Bill, these guys aren't built... to get deep and go repeat, repeat, repeat like it used to be. It's just something that the guys in the 80s and the 90s had that these guys just don't have. And it's not all their fault. They make a ton of money, man. Even guys in the 80s and 90s, they had to push because they needed more money. Like they weren't even paid highly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Like, so they had a reason to go for it every year. They, they needed that playoff money. Like these guys don't need the playoff money. Like, and so they have to be pushed. And I think what's going to happen with Boston is, is when it gets after April. I mean, not April, March, and they can see the end of it. We're going to see the Boston team that we saw last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think Jalen's going to wrap it up or Tatum's going to wrap it up because now they can see the end. So I am not down on Boston. I haven't been all year. I've made excuses for them because, and think of that, I'm making excuses for teams you all love.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Keyword healthy. That's for every team. I mean, for him, I'm saying if he's healthy, they are a major problem. So for him, it's just staying healthy and how they use him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I can push back a little bit on that because what I can say is, as what you all used to say about the West, it was top heavy. They had a lot of talent. And so by the time they got to the finals, they were tired. And so I can say the same thing with the East right now. And those three teams at the top. And just say, for instance, say, for example, Philly gets healthy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
OK, and they win a first round series. Right. And all of a sudden, it's the problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They don't even have to win a series. Just they push them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Oh, they had to play some teams. Stop. Stop. Oh, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Because they were talented. The Lakers were a talented team. They were a dominant team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Just like the Bulls were a dominant team in the East, but it was teams that were good in the East. It was teams that were good in the East when the Bulls were running through the East. It was things that were good in the East when LeBron was running through the East. You always don't want to give that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, my plan is I think Philadelphia is learning how to win without the best center in the NBA. I think they're learning to win without the best center in the NBA. One of the best small forwards in the NBA, he's been injured, Paul George.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He was dominant. He dominated all those teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
How do you live in L.A. and you hate the Lakers? How do you live in L.A. and you hate the Lakers? I've come to grips with it a while ago. That's amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
That's like living in a 10,000 square foot house, but you hate the girl and she look like a 10. I mean, really. I mean, come on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
All right, Justin Termini, you say he's not a high level, but when they won the title, was he high level? Absolutely. He's 27 a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He can become high level then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, but we're seeing it now. And I think, again, like I said, Not to a high level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But he's grown to it. He's got 30 plus games left. So my point is where he is right now and how he's trending, he's getting back to himself. I hope so. And, Bill, I've never gotten off the bandwagon with Denver. He knows. Justin knows this. I'm not – they have too much talent. You all a couple years ago said they had the best starting five in the basketball, and they still got those same guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They still got the starting. Well, they turned Brown.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Justin, I hear what you say about the bench. I'm not arguing that. But Christian Brown is a better player than Contavious Caldwell-Polk, and he's showing it right now. That's fine, but he was on the bench. They're starting five. It's just the same five and better right now. The bench has to get better. I agree. But the starting five that want a title, they're the same guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And if they're learning to win without them two and those two come back and they're in the play-in, I think we might see a repeat of Miami of a couple of years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
All Jokic needs is to get to the finals and does not have to play against Carl Anthony Towns, who owns his lunch. Oh, stop it. He can't even score on Cat. Cat locked him down twice. He locked him down twice. He had pedestrian numbers. Carl Anthony Towns is locking him up. Can I ask you guys about one West team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I saw him the other day. He did a few things in that game that made me say, if he's back to that... I mean, he pushed the ball up the court, and I mean, he looked fast. Just laterally. Like, that's what I'm looking at. And they're afraid to play him, and I get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I was glad they did. I was glad they did. Because, you know, who knows? We might not have beat him the other night. But, no, he looked good, man. That's all I'm going to say. But he's done this before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah. Yeah, he really is. He's improved his shot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They got off to a slow start, and I think it's just them getting familiar with their own court. But since then, they've been pretty good. I think they've only lost, what, they lost four games early, and they've only lost four games since. No, that is a tremendous advantage. That wall is ridiculous, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
That's amazing. When MVP was basically the MVP two years ago and he got injured. And so you're basically judging Embiid based on an injury and saying that those guys are better than him. I'll give you Jokic. I mean, those are the two top players. But anybody else you're putting above Embiid, you're basically using the excuse that he's injured and saying he's not good anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You automatically become a better defender with that dude behind you. Oh, of course. You would be a good defender with him behind you. Right. I mean, all you got to do is stay in front of your man. I don't know about that. And De'Aaron Fox is so good at that. But here's where the fit is perfect. And I brought this up the other day. When Fox with Sabonis was really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But the problem is they're both left-handed. Now you're coming off that screen with now Wimbinyama. Now he's going off to his right and De'Aaron Fox is to his left. It's a better pass. It's an easier, fluid pass. It's all of that. And I think Fox is looking at that as well. A lot of times he and Sabonis kind of ran into each other a little bit because of that dynamic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But now, like this dude coming off left, and you got to agree, he's one of the best guys in the paint in regards to being a guard. And now he's got that size to really initiate stuff to. I think that's one of the reasons why he's looking at it. And I think he's the perfect blend for him. And I think even Chris Paul at times has a tough time with that in regards to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Because Chris is more like a right-handed guy as well. So I think the nuances there, man, is going to be really good if he's able to get there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And he probably will never leave because he's from Texas. So he wants to be in Texas. And you want players on your team that want to be in a certain region, especially if it's San Antonio.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, okay. But Penny Hardaway left... Penny Hardaway and Shaq broke up. Safar Marbury left Kevin Garnett.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I know, but think of LeBron doing shit for that for eight years. You need to stop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And LeBron was the best player on the team until Wade figured it out and stopped trying to do everything the next year. And they won two back to back. How dare you even bring that analogy up? Wow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So you can go kick rocks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He already had a title. And Shaq wasn't chopped liver either. Wade don't sniff a finals victory back then if it wasn't for Shaq and Alonzo Mornin. So you all stop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
If they can keep Sohan, they need to keep him. If they can keep him, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Because Trey's having a great year. He was a snub. Let's just put it where it is. Trey was a snub. Trey Young was a snub. Because the way he's played, he's changed his game. He realized he's not Steph. He stopped playing like Steph. And he started playing like a point guard. And he's had a very good year, man. And so I think he's a snub in the East as well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, I think they're doing the right thing with him right now, Bill. I think just sit him out. Let him get 100% healthy. I think he's been trying to come back, and he hasn't been 100% healthy. I don't think he started the season 100% healthy, and he's paid a price. And I think what they're doing right now is the right thing. Sit him out. And guess what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think anywhere Chris Paul goes, they're dangerous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I wasn't the GM. Telling us how good Yusuf Nurkic was. What do you mean, me?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Look, guys, obviously you guys, I have to eat crow because you all can get on me based on what's going on. But I will say this. You know, do you honestly think that he was able to play the way that he can play? Like, he's a rebounder. That's what he is. Yeah, he's one of the best rebounders.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He's one of the best rebounders in the game. And that's what he is. I've never looked at him any more than that. The biggest problem for Nurkic, and I hope he improves it because it seems like he probably will get moved. he's just got to make, I don't know what it is. He's got to find out wherever a Pete Newell protege is, and he's just got to spend a whole summer with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But that's a ground. That's a ground game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, obviously it's not good when you're not playing and you're not talking to the coach. I can't even run from that. It's not good. But I will say this. He's been very good on the bench over there. It hasn't been a negative.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
In all fairness. So he's doing it the right way. He's doing it the right way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, he might go back to Portland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He might be back in Portland, guys. You never know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Hey, Bill, you know this. That was the worst, worst draft the Celtics ever had. Really was. They had a chance to draft me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Cost you all another title, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I'm in the Hall of Fame. Without a doubt. Oh, my God. How did this happen? Bill, without a doubt, he would have. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
If he can't play the rest of the year, I wouldn't play him. And I've said that on our show. And then that's when you have to suffer the consequences of having to wait another year. But for me, I think he needs to get 100 percent. Like some guys can get 90. He can't. He's got to be 100. And I think that's what they're doing with him right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No. He's the biggest freak of nature I've ever seen. Now, I used to say that about Mark Eaton. I used to say it about Manupo, who obviously not the talent that Wimby is. But when you look at a dude like that, and I even said it one time about, you know, Joel Embiid. Justin and I was in the summer league standing next to him, and I didn't realize how massive he was. But Wimby?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, I've never seen anything like that. I'm serious, man. Look, when you can dunk, he's in the warm-up line dunking flat-footed. Right. Like, I've never seen that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
That's the problem with our plane. They sit way up in the front. We fly one of them big giant monstrosities. So you're not even near them. Never even seen them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Never even seen them. Nope. Never seen them. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing you can fly on a plane? And you never see the players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Oh, sitting there gambling with the players. Please, yes. With the coaches. It was like everybody. Yeah, it's not like that anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, getting on a flight five in the morning, and some guy sitting next to you, and he wants to have a conversation. You don't even know who he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think it is. And I've said this time and time again, just watching them all year. They're the biggest problem. It's not the opponent. It's them. And what I mean by it is if you look statistically at the numbers when they win, if they don't turn it over, and I mean like you're going to turn the ball over, but I mean like 14, 15, you're giving up 18, 20 points off turnovers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
The games they don't do that, they win. The games they rebound, at least stay close on the offensive glass, they win. Because they normally out-shoot the opponent. Like, we have lost a numerous amount of games this year where we've shot 49%, 50% and lost. Why? Because the opponent got 18 more field goal attempts. Right. And that is the issue with them. It's like, it's so simple. And we see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
We've seen it over the stretch when they've been winning. We see it over the stretch when they don't turn it over and they rebound, they win. And they know it, but they just can't. It's just like last night. Last night, pretty much had the game under control. Start turning it over. Like, it's just, it's that part that drives you nuts. And, you know, I think that's fixable to me. That's fixable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Because say what you want about Bradley Beal and people say he doesn't fit and all that. Dude playing his butt off off the bench, man. Like... He literally is trying to defend, and he's literally scoring the ball at will. And he's obviously one of our most efficient players. So it's that part that drives me nuts calling the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And, you know, obviously I can't go all crazy, but it's just like I'm watching it and I'm like, dude, just take one more dribble to the right and throw it into the post. Why are you, you know, it's just simple things that they get in trouble with. And it's just really, it's like it drives you nuts to watch it at times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So we can rebound now, though, Josh. Yeah, you got Nick Richards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I'm sure there has to be some master plan, but yeah, personally, me personally, I think, I think that we're a physical player away from really being competitive this year in the playoffs. And, and that's at the forward position, whoever that guy can be. I just don't think it has to be a guy that's a high-level guy. I just think it's a guy that rebounds the ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
If we get more field goal attempts than the opponent, we'll win. Like, I will put anything on that with the scores that we have. If we can rebound and don't allow second-chance points and get the same amount of field goal attempts, I think we'll win most games. And I think that's their weakness right now is the rebounding.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And if they can shore that up, and I'm pretty sure that's what they're trying to do, then I think it helps. That's all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He's just relentless, man. Like, when I tell you, he's just relentless. The dude... Like, you know, it's never an accident to be that good offensively, right? It's not an accident. I'll just give you all a story real quick. We had a large event, and it was at the practice facility about a month and a half ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And everybody was dressed up and everything, and they had like a little mingle thing going on with the fans and all that, and they had the baskets down. The whole entire night, he was shooting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Like the whole entire night, he was over there shooting. You know, people come over and talk to him and all that, but he shot the entire night. And I'm saying to myself, dude, why do you have to keep shooting? Like, we know it's like it's ingrained in him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah. And, you know, the impact. I don't know. I've not mentioned it to him yet because I've been able to talk to him since then. But. It's like, that blew me away. Like, it's like, that's why this dude is this good offensively. Like, he just, he understands his craft and he knows what he has to do. But no, the shot making, man, I, you know, watching it from afar and all of that. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But no, just to see it every day. It's ridiculous, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I was double teamed a lot in high school and college, so it doesn't matter. And at times in the NBA, so I can handle it. I'm fine. I guarantee you, I won't throw the ball away like some guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think people have a forgiving heart. And I think we've had friends in our lives that we probably thought we'd never be friends with them again. And years go by. And we kind of get a softer heart. And we give in to the temptation of maybe, you know,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, I mean, well, hey, you do get a lot of people that have been divorced and they still get along. You know, I just think fans, I think over a period of time, I think they just remember the good times and they forget. It is funny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But I'll just say this, and I've told him this. I was upset that he went there only because I wanted OKC to beat Golden State. That's why I was upset. And I knew him going to Golden State, he was going to win championships. But Golden State was not beating LeBron if he did not go there. And I think that's what he can carry. And I think Golden State fans know that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So I think, yeah, they're going to retire his jersey. They're going to treat him like the king there because they knew they were in trouble. They knew that they weren't going to beat that Cleveland team the next couple of years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I'm saying the same thing. I agree. It was an automatic win, but they weren't going to have that automatic win because if he did not go there, maybe not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Here's the thing. He had the big shots to seal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Look, if Denver wins, it's going to be Westbrook leading Jokic, so don't worry about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I never gave up on Westbrook. I know you did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Bill, it's easy to say that. But here's what I told Justin last week is like Jokic is the best. It was the best combination for Westbrook because with LeBron, LeBron handled the ball. Westbrook handled the ball. It wasn't a good mix down in Houston. Harden handled the ball. Westbrook handled the ball. It was not a good mix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You know, even when he went to Washington and he played with Bill, Bill was wanting to handle the ball in Washington. Westbrook didn't take off until Bill got injured. And here was my response. Yeah. And so that is the best combination. Exactly. Jokic plays differently than everyone else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, no, no, no. The ball goes into the Kings hands.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And that's the way it should be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, LeBron made a mistake bringing him there. I will say that. But the ball goes into LeBron's hands. LeBron is on the floor. I don't care who's on the floor with him. Whether it's Magic or Bird, you can make that argument. Okay? Bringing the ball up, I'm saying. Not in the half court. Because then we can argue Jokic. But what I'm saying is, ball goes into LeBron's hands.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
That's just the way it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Think about this, though. What about Presti? He had three MVPs, okay? And all three of those guys were three of the best condition athletes. Now, Harden had his ups and downs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But the one thing about Harden, he played every night. And he had to bring the ball up against little dudes. He beat them off the dribble. So his energy level was high as well. But those three guys, KD, Russ, and Hart on the same team, you can put them up there with the top energy guys in the history of the game. I mean, they persevered.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
It's amazing. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, no, they're a threat. They definitely are a threat. They're the biggest team, one of the biggest teams in the league. And I think Jared Allen, if he can stay healthy, I think he's the key.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, and Karis LeVert, I think, off the bench for them, whether he's off the bench or starting, he's going to have to be consistent, right? And so I think they got enough. Yeah, I do. I think they have enough to offset because they can bother Boston with their size. And then I think they just maybe have, you know, the same amount of experience as New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So it's like almost a crapshoot with the two of them. So I think they do have a chance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think it's on Brunson, though. I think Brunson has to be honest with himself because I think he plays beat up a lot. I don't think it's sustainable. He plays beat up a lot. And I don't think he needs to sit down at times. And I think it's just that mentality of, you know, he shouldn't have to worry about it. But I think, you know, if I sit down, something might happen, you know. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
take my minutes kind of thought. That's not happening with him. I just think he's all wrapped up, man. To be a young player, you just always got something on his body.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No. I believe in his talent, but I don't believe that he is capable of keeping himself
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
in shape and and i think that's part of the issue like i've seen a lot of basketball players in my life playing the nba and i always wondered was that guy better off being a football player or basketball player and i still continue to say it when i first saw zion in high school and i saw him on the basketball court i said that's a football player that's very good at basketball and
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I think his mentality is that of a football player, of like alignment or something. You know, we don't have to do a ton of stuff, you know? And for me, I just don't, I don't, basketball seems to not have been his ticket. Like we all play sports, right? I played baseball. I played football a little bit and I was pretty good at baseball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But I reached a point where I said, okay, Eddie, you're six foot six. It's not too many six foot six third basemen. My arm is hurting from pitching. I need to play basketball, right? And I don't know if Zion ever reached that point of having to make the decision. I think automatically he played basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And to me, man, I just don't think mentally he's in tune with what it takes to stay on the floor. as a basketball player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I'll tell this story real quick. And I've said it on our show. I once had this lady travel all the way from Wyoming with her kid. And that's when I had a training academy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
The kid, she shows up. Kid is 6'6". I mean, ripped. 14. 14 years old. And she says, he's going to be a great basketball player. He's going to grow. His dad was 6'10", and he's going to grow. So I worked the kid out. He takes 25 jumpers in close, 10 feet around the rim, made one. Okay, I moved him out a little bit. Five air balls.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And so I sit him down on the side and I said, you know, what do you like to do? And he started talking about all the things he likes to do. And he started talking about his instruments and he likes to play in the band and all of that. And not one time did he mention basketball. I looked at the mother. I said, miss, I'm going to give you your money back. And I charged her like a grand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I said, I'm going to give you your money back. And I am telling you, if you don't want to lose your kid, you need to let him be in the band. I am telling you, he does not want to play basketball. She started crying. I mean, literally. Because she knew deep down. I had to grab this lady. She was like distraught.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I told her, and then I went over there and took over to him and I said, son, what do you like to do? Band. Yeah. And so to me, that's like, it reminds me of Zion. Like he was made to play basketball. They want him to play basketball. And I just wonder at times, does he really like want to play at a high level? And, and I've, I've said that about numerous guys. It's not just Zion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, I would look at it more like this. And I've said it. I said that these injured sit out and don't play. But if you all are telling me that a team worked out Joel Embiid past his injury, and you all know that each team has its own ego. They always have. They think their trainers can get a guy right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You can argue that's what maybe forced Jamal to not be in shape. because he had not gotten paid yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And it messes them up, Bill.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, and I don't think Devin would ever admit it, but the way that he changed his game this summer was a positive for the Olympic team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But I think that mentality kind of cut down that killer instinct that he had for a short period of time. Right. Thinking that, okay, I'm going to try this on the Suns too. I'm going to like, I won't take a shot in the first five minutes. And, you know, I'll turn it on when I can. And I think it kind of got him in that situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And lately he's gotten back to Devin, you know, being ultra aggressive. Like a lot of times they tell you, like Larry Brown used to always say, you F with the game. Let's go F with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
America. You play, you play for your country.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I would love to see that. Bill, I'm with you. Bill, I would love to see it. Bill, I would love to see it. I like cheering for the underdogs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
That's exactly what it's going to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, why do you even acknowledge that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So both of you all are telling me that if Joel Embiid went to a potential trade team and worked out for them and looked good in his workout, that they wouldn't trade for him. Are you all crazy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Hold it. You never asked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No way. I talked to him for free. Trust me, Bill. So you're good. You're good. Trust me on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Farewell. All right. Okay. Take care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think his team's out there right now. His team's out there right now. If they worked him out and they saw that he was healthy, They trade for him in a heartbeat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Bill, you're right. All the Suns can make a trade under the second apron. People didn't think that. Some things can happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, no, stay two more hours. I'll go a step further. If the Boston Celtics worked him out and thought he was healthy, they'd trade for him. In a heartbeat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Hey, maybe they'll give up Jalen. They're not going to give up Tatum. But they'd trade for him. I hope not. If they worked him out and saw he was healthy, they'd trade for him. In a heartbeat. Without a doubt, they would. Yes, they would.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, we wouldn't do that. We wouldn't do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
We wouldn't do that trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I'm just kidding, man. I'm just kidding. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, he didn't. And I think he should have... Look, put it this way. I think Norman Powell should have made it from the Clippers. Even on my pregame show for the Suns the other day, I didn't pick Devin. And it wasn't that he wasn't worthy. It was a number of players that were out there that should have made it. Kyrie, obviously Norman Powell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You had guards out there that were worthy of being picked. And I felt record is just a nose. I always lean toward record. And I thought Kyrie should have been the one picked. I do. I think based on what he's done without Luka, I think that's all-star level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Even though James Harden is playing in a selfish brand of basketball and he's changed his game a lot, shooting, what, low 40s from the field, I just don't see how he made it over Norman Powell and over Devin Booker. Like, I thought one of those two with Kyrie, to me, you know, and obviously I had Jalen Williams in that group because I thought people wouldn't pick him. should have made it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So, you know, look, I'm not surprised that Devin didn't make it. He got off to a slow start this year. And the record is right there in the middle of the pack of the West. And so you're vulnerable when you're in that situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah. And I've always said that. I've always said that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think a lot. I think a lot of stuff goes into it. I do. I think teams competing with one another, all of that. I think it does. When you just give the coaches to vote, you know, attitude can come into play. So I'm not shocked by any of that. For me, I think personally, you know, Devin is going to, I should focus on in the second half of the season. It's definitely a disappointment for him.