Dustin Van Orman
Appearances
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Are you afraid that private equity will ruin your trades business? Think again. We'll reveal how top pros like Dustin Van Orman and Ishmael Valdez turned private equity into a powerhouse, scaling to $500 million and beyond. Learn how to spot real opportunities and avoid the scammers in the best practice and coaching groups.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
completely shift and like understand what AI is going to impact, get people more into the trades, understand that like blue collar work is respectable. You can make a good living, all these different things. And so, yeah, it's a big shift that we have to make. And I agree with you.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
We'll bleep it out for you. We're a clean show, but you know.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah, good question. We need to open our doors. We need to show people the, I mean, the trades are fun. Do people realize this is fun or do they think they need to go to college? That's the reality is society has trained people to believe that college is where you need to go and you need to get that education.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
But the reality is not all of us want to go to school and sit in a classroom and learn what they want us to learn. We want to get out and experience life. We want to go experience a career of our choice. And in the trades, you can have a choice of what you do with your life direction. But I think people aren't, they don't understand even what's available yet.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Nice. That's awesome. So all three of the main trades going on with that.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And so helping them see that, what's the old perception of a plumber? I mean, the people have this, yeah, they have this perception.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I can tell you in our business, I'm going to take our drains program where I think most companies, and ours used to be this way, where you come into a drains team, you know, they're putting a snake down a sewer line and cleaning it out so water can flow again. It used to be really dirty, really, I mean, just, it was frowned upon. People used to come in and out of those departments.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
We've created an environment where If you have the right culture, if you have the right training, if you have the right opportunity, if you show people how to turn those leads into a really successful career, even though there might be a dirty aspect to it, it's respectable. It's honorable. It's got direction.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And we can educate people to understand that there's a real career, a real direction in any of the trades.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I mean, the reality is we're up against a big thing, right? I mean, the college system is a very lucrative industry or whatnot. But yeah, we can definitely speak up the way we do our recruiting, our training, those type of things. What are you guys doing right now or at any hour for recruiting and training people to get them up to speed?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You bet. We have people coming through our doors every single day. If you go talk to my recruiting team, they'll have... thousands of applications per month coming in the door. You have to be actively looking for the right people, bringing them in, showing them what's available, creating an opportunity. And then you got to be open minded.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I mean, you bring people in the door and I think so many contractors out there are just looking for the most experience. You need to find people for who they are and help them develop that experience. If you're hiring for character and if you're bringing people into the trades, giving them an education, and helping them start that career path.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
That's why we have a shortage is because we've created it. We've only gone for the, like you said, they're bouncing from shop to shop to shop. So these experienced guys are the first one they grab, right? If we bring in young people that are ambitious, that are interested in learning how to work with their hands and have a career in the trades and then train them,
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
they're grateful for that training. They're going to stay with us. We're going to have loyalty. We're going to have hardworking people. And like you said, in a matter of just a few years, we've helped them develop a career path where they can make an incredible income and provide for their families.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah, I mean, and it's got to be a cultural shift because, I mean, these kids, they're coming out of high school addicted to their phones, don't know how to use their hands, never have done any type of like labor or sweated in their life, right? So like that, I mean, you got to address this situation early. It's not at 18 or 19.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
It's actually 12, 13, 14, like figuring out ways that we can insert ourselves in like shift in society and get there where it's like people love working again.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
amen so you know it's uh it's interesting um there's there's a there's a labor shortage but then there's also like a lot of guys in the space that just have trouble scaling right like all of us have scaled drastic amounts like what what would you say like are the key aspects in growing a business from zero to 106 million in six and a half years
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Amen.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show. So, Dustin, like when you're you're a small shop, you're doing a couple million a year, just struggling. You don't have these sales processes.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You don't have any really good operations in place. Like, where do you go? Where do you go for help or something like that?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think that's a challenge that so many business owners are facing. If I go back and think about what my experience was like in the beginning, it was the Wild West. I mean, I. I would go to my first call in the morning. I'd present options for repair. If they didn't want to repair, I'd present options for replacement. If they wanted to replace it, I'd go buy my own equipment. I'd come back.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I'd do my entire install myself. I'd call dispatch and say I was done. Then go do another one. A dispatch would line my calls up for the day and at five o'clock they'd say, here's your next four calls. Let me know how it goes tomorrow. I mean, we did whatever it took and it was the wild west. And that meant we had to get involved from the minute we woke up till the jobs were done.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
That was usually 10, 11 o'clock at night. Um, cause that's what it took. Yeah. Now, if I'm talking about the challenges these businesses are facing and they need to figure out how to overcome, people will come into our shop quite often. Anyone's invited and they'll ask us, well, what's the silver bullet, you know, that helped you scale your business?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So many shops have a hard time scaling past that two, three, four or five million dollar range. Because they don't know how to build a team. And so they're wearing every single hat themselves and they don't know how to take one off and hand it to somebody talented. That's where they're lacking is building the right people.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You know, it's interesting. I think a lot of times technician-ran businesses, they look down upon sales. Yes, sir. Right? They're like, oh, sales is dirty. Yep. You know, I can't just have only sales guys. I got to have guys that understand the ins and the outs of exactly how this is done, to be in management, to be out talking with the customer, to be any of these things, right?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And so, like, it was always interesting to guys when they found out, like, dude, I've never installed a solar panel in my life. Right. Like I know how a solar panel is installed. I've watched it be installed. I've I've never have a drill.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
But like like you don't you don't have like if you are a technician running a business, understand you don't need to be a technician in a business.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Like like running a business is a completely different skill than going and servicing a customer.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So I completely agree with what you're saying. You need to attract top talent that can sell in your business. Trouble is at $2 million in revenue, how do you attract the top talent in sales? Because they want to have a career path.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So I'm going to conflict a little bit here. So I am a sales guy. And so I can appreciate a good commission structure. I think that is. I think, frankly, the way that you take a $2 million shop to a $50 million shop to a $100 million shop, yes, you have to attract the right talent. It's all vision driven. Right. Like for me as a sales guy, yes, I got to be able to make a lot of money.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Don't miss this insider's guide to winning with private equity in the trades. All right, welcome to another episode of Next Level Pros. Super excited. We have incredible guests in the studio today. It's a unique experience. All four of us have been involved in private equity in one way or the other in the trades. And so super excited.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
But if I do not see a vision of growth, a vision of opportunity, like in fact, if a guy does come in and the first thing he's talking about pay, I'm kicking him out. Like I want somebody to be bought into the culture, the vision, the direction of the business to see where they're going to fit into going and growing this thing. And then let's have. A compensation structure. But I do agree.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You got to you got to compensate. I think most guys, most guys on on a baseline level just have no idea how to compensate guys.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Because there's no vision. And that's my point is like, for a guy to get out of it, he's got to change his vision. Most of these guys are just in survival vision mode. It's just like, I'm just trying to get to the next payroll, do the next thing. And like, if I could just stay here and make my 200 grand a year or 300 grand a year, Then I'm going to be fine. Versus the guy that's at 2 million.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah, we actually had a little bit different of an experience. Like when we launched, we fully intended to sell. That's dope, man. And, well, I mean, we had a career going up into that point that was like, you know, the hard knocks. I mean, was this your first business that you launched? Second business.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
He's like, yo, in five years, we're getting to 100 million. And this is the plan. This is the roadmap to be able to get it. They're going to be able to attract the top talent. So like one is like shifting the limiting beliefs that you have around your business. Thinking bigger, bigger. being able to attract in the right town. I mean, that's essentially what made Solgen what Solgen was.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Like we're sitting in a garage recruiting guys, right? Like third guy walking in, I'm like, yo, we're building this thing to a hundred million in the next five years. This is the roadmap. This is how we're doing. They're like, well, I'm sitting in your freaking garage. I know you're sitting in the garage. This is how we're doing it. We're investing in the right things.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So Ishmael, you're talking about the compensation side of things. And I agree with both. I'm glad this conversation is happening. But here's the thing. Without saying it, you're demonstrating your vision. You're a charismatic, energetic person that is proud to be able to offer people a great income. Of course.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You're demonstrating your vision along with sharing with them their opportunity for compensation. I meet so many business owners that have been $2 million for the last 10 years. Yep. They can't paint a vision. So they have to change something and able to create an environment where people want to be because high performers, they're not going to go to that shop because they don't see the direction.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So people need to see a path. They need to have a voice and they need to be compensated well.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Amen. Look at us coming together.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So 2025, what's the opportunity right now in the HVAC world, the trades, the plumbing?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You know, it's interesting. Obviously, there's a lot of like best practice groups out there. Right. Like I think one of the biggest shifts in my career was once I started getting in the room with the right people, learning, learning the secrets of things that I wasn't doing and others were doing. Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And there's there's been a lot of like best practice groups that have been well established in the trades for a long time. What what should you be looking for in like being able to scale up, educate up, learn these things? Because like obviously there's podcasts that you can go to. There's YouTube. There's different things like where are you turning for the right direction these days?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
the first thought that comes to mind and before I answer your question, I want to point out something I've observed. Um, so often business owners will see a spark of talent in somebody in their business, a technician or somebody in the office, whatever. And so they see this spark of talent and they think, Oh, well this, this makes sense. Let's make this person a manager.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So they put them in a management position, but then they never spend the time to develop that person. And so it's, I mean, you may have heard this before, but have you ever, you've heard people, uh,
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Okay, awesome, awesome. Yeah, ours was a little bit different. We ended up running a process with like to get private equity knocking on the doors. We were in a little bit, obviously, different line of the trades with, you know, fully solar and electric. But yeah, a little bit different. Now you, on the other hand, come from a little bit different background.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
come to you and say hey so and so just decided to give notice we just made this person a service manager for example right so and so just decided to give notice they're leaving the business and man i'm so glad they're leaving because they're the hardest one to handle right what they don't realize is oftentimes those hard technicians to handle are your highest producers i'm one of them i'm probably not the easiest guy to manage in the world you're probably not either just being honest um
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And so your high performers are walking out the door because we haven't developed our leaders to know how to communicate properly and how to inspire and how to understand what that person's needs are.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And so having coaching and training and opportunity available in programs like what you guys have created here with, you know, the next level pros team. businesses need to have direction. They need to understand what the next step in scaling is. They need to have a coach to help them stay accountable. They need to have leadership development. They need to have weekly one-on-ones.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
There's so many things that need to be happening. You can't just hire somebody with a spark of talent and expect them to figure it out because they might be able to become a manager, but are they going to become a leader without you supporting them?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
It's interesting. You look at anything that operates at a high level, whether it's a professional sports team, whether it's Tony Robbins, whatever. They all have certain things in common, and yet so many of us try to cut corners and bypass that. Michael Jordan, he had his coach, his trainers, his developers. To be able to operate at a high level, you have to be in these groups.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You have to be around the right minds. You've got to have...
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
accountability and everything else yet so many of us we just want to be like oh that's not for me like I had my coach in high school playing football but I don't need him now like I'm a big boy I'm smart I've got I can figure this out on my own I've got access to all the same information they do the biggest the biggest people culprits to this are the people who were like had a job started a business and now they're making a little bit more than they used to make they're like I got it figured out and they're the ones I'm like dude you do not have it figured out there's so much opportunity you're just leaving on the table
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah. Top producer doesn't mean you're a top manager, right?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You're more focused on the private equity side. Yeah. Yeah. So you can give us a little background there.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You know, it's a great question. I think, you know, one of the things that I've always looked at is like, has somebody ran the roadmap that I want to run, right? Like whenever I can get in the room with somebody that has been in my shoes, done the work, gone through the same struggles, like that's somebody I want to learn from.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
right and and so and does it for the right reasons i think uh you know a lot of the scammers out there there's guys that are that are figureheads in the space but that aren't involved in their program whatsoever right like they're they're a good marketing piece but then you get in the door and you never hear substance yeah you know you never hear from them again there's no substance to the program or anything like that and so it's interesting like the program that we teach we teach you what what we call the eight pillars for growth it's under our god mode structure
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Little background on myself first, Dustin Van Orman. I live in Utah. If I look at my history, I say I'm an HVAC technician from way back, but if you go back even further, I'm that kid that stood next to dad while he's sitting in the bathtub at the apartment complex that he owns and I'm handing him wrenches while he's fixing the tub.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And, and essentially these are pillars that we have built being in the shoes of the technicians, being in the shoes of the business owner. And we've done it through successes and failures and, and being, paying for coaching ourselves, right? Like, like I always say, like one, be extremely afraid of a guy that wants to be your coach that doesn't pay to be coached, right?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Like that, that isn't constantly learning, isn't constantly developing. Like, One thing that I've dedicated in my career, I've spent over $1.3 million just on my personal education, being in the right room, going to a three-year Harvard program for owners and presidents of companies, doing the work. But more importantly, I've been there when it's tough to make payroll.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I've been there when you're just scrapping together and getting your next sale to be able to figure out how to cash flow this or put off a vendor for a little while so you can make the payment. And so like when you really understand that, right, like that's the room you want to be in. And so, you know, we're coming into the trade space. Yeah, we have background in the trades, right?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Solar is an electrical trade. But what we bring to the trades is a more like astute and like targeted sales development, leadership, structure, vision, where many, many guys in the trades just really struggle with.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You know, you know, it's interesting, like in in the coaching space sometimes. Yeah. To Daryl's point is like just by spending the money, you're committing to taking some action. Most guys just aren't taking any action. They're reacting, right? Like they're not being proactive in designing their business or whatnot.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So like just by giving that, that pledge or that vote of like, Hey, I am going to start working on my business. That's step one. Obviously you want those dollars to go to the best program, right? You want to be in the right room. You want to be with the right guys.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I learned from the time I was 10 years old, and I've always loved being in the repair business and taking care of that checklist. Got into heating and air conditioning back in 2000. I think the trades are amazing. I think there's so much potential. And then it wasn't that many years ago we were approached by the private equity industry. I mean, they saw in our...
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
and so and that just comes down to yeah who's got the best track record who's got the best testimonials like who who actually knows what they're talking about but like you could literally pay for something get a tiny little piece of advice and it could be drastic and changing changing your i agree with that you know if we're talking about these groups and how you can find a coach and and uh surround yourself with people to help be successful the first step is to just uh
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
make the decision to do something. I mean, how many of these people are trying to recreate the machine? It doesn't have to be recreated. There's plenty of us already doing it successfully. And I'll tell you what, we're happy to share. I mean, I have hundreds of businesses come to our shop every single year and I walk them around personally and show them what we're doing in our business, right?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Anyone's invited.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
That's right. And then the other thing, too, is you're observing what these larger businesses are doing. Well, you tell me one of them that's not in a group of one form or another where they have coaching and training opportunity. They're all in something. I think that greatness.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think one of the reasons why we've had so much success with the trades, with different businesses right now in 2025 is we don't suffer from a lack of information problem. We've got tons of info. It's free now. YouTube. Literally, you can go to some of these Ivy League schools for free. You just don't get the certification. It's crazy. The amount of information out there is available worldwide.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
What really sets us apart and where we've been able to find a lot of success is the level of accountability that we hold because we do one-on-one coaching with our guys, like actually look over their numbers. Like that's where guys need their freaking feet held to the fire to make sure that they're implementing the real information because knowing information is one thing.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
We all know how to get skinny. We all know how to look good and everything else, but that doesn't keep us from eating the cookies, right? right? And so like we need somebody that keeps us from eating the cookies and that makes us show up at the shop accountable to certain KPIs, right? Like that is absolutely imperative in 2025.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
On top of that, what we found is that works incredible is in-person workshops, right? Because what happens is we get stuck in that day-to-day as a technical operator, right? Where we're head down, doing the thing. We're down here on ground level. We have to get to 30,000 foot.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And what I found the best cadence is, is once a quarter, you remove yourself from the business, you go spend time with other entrepreneurs that are working on the same exact thing, and you actually work on the business from 30,000 feet. And that's where we found just a ton of success with these workshops is these guys are forced to be in the room, right? They paid the money.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
services side of the industry the potential i mean the recession hits and we're strong people still have to fix their stuff um and so they saw the value in our industry and and at first we were approached and we were cautious we in fact had all of our barriers up because we i mean you're selling out right right this is going to hurt our people right yep and we were nervous we we weren't interested in doing anything with any of them
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
They're forced to be in the room. They remove themselves from their, from their location. They come in, we work with them. We spent a couple of days working on the things that actually drive growth. Like I think more than anything, whether you're a part of our group or anything else, like those are the two things you need in 2025 accountability and forced to take action and create.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And so that's, that's where I'm finding, finding value. I agree.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah, I mean, dude, for me, I'm a visionary. And the thing that always drives me is a mission. And so I think about this consistently and constantly, right? And, you know, I've always known that money isn't the driver. Money is a derivative. It's points on the scoreboard and whatnot.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And so, you know, in building businesses, the thing I love is the things that put points on the scoreboard, the dribbling, the shooting, the... you know, the passing, the catching. And so, like, for me, it's what really drives and gives me that satisfaction. You know, I tried retirement for six weeks and it was terrible.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You're right. And, you know, society has lied to each one of us as far as like that there is an accomplishment that will get you completely fulfilled. There won't. Right. Like we literally the name the reason we named our company Next Level is that happiness is found in trajectory, in the trends that we're going and going to the next level.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Ultimately, we started our own group, the Any Hour Group, so we could create what we felt we couldn't find with the others. Now, there's other good groups out there. I'll state that.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And as long as you're leveling up, that's where true happiness comes from. And so our mission at Next Level is designing lives that impact the world. And what I've always thought about is like, okay, how can I really leave my fingerprint on humanity and really change the world? You know, I can go and try to be the president of the United States. I can go and be a governor.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I can go and be a church leader. I can go and do all these different things. But at the end of the day, I think as entrepreneurs, we have a greater level of impact across the world than anything else. And the reason is because initially when employees and customers come to us, they think it's all about a transaction, all about money, right? Paycheck, those type of things, right?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
But when we teach them that, hey, look, I can help you level up your whole life, your physical, your economic, your association, your spirituality. Now you have real impact on a business on and it's a ripple effect that impacts communities, that impacts. And so for me, when I was thinking about those six weeks of like, dude, I got to have purpose, I got to have something else going.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
It was like, okay, how can I have the greatest impact? And ultimately, it was working with entrepreneurs and helping them design lives that impact the world, which really drives our five-year mission of Impact 125, which is to bring an additional $125 billion in annualized revenue through our community. And that's our five-year roadmap that we're pushing and we're grinding towards.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
It's literally all community-driven because we know that if our community –
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
creates 125 billion in revenue we know we're going to be running at 20 to 25 margins and because we've taught these people how to change lives that dollar amount is going to drastically change the world and so like when you when you ask like what drives me dude that's it man that gets me excited gets me pumped get me out of bed in the morning every single day gives me height let me i would love to hear what you uh what drives you
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I'm trying to be nice.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Anyway, but we just didn't resonate with the others, and it just wasn't the right direction for us. So we formed the Any Hour Group back in 2021. Step back one step further. I started with Any Hour in 2011. I was one of the first HVAC technicians there, jumped in a truck, worked hard. At that time, there was about a dozen of us. Total revenue, we were about two.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So I love it. That's awesome. What's driving you? I mean, all those things you guys have said. And then just one more thing that comes to mind. There's people counting on us. Amen. I have an accountability to my family, to my co-workers, to my friends, to. the people in my business. And I hope whoever is listening to this realizes how many people, how many lives are affected by just your group.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I mean, if you figure the average employee has got a family of four, any our services, any our group as a whole, we have over 2000 employees times four. So we have close to 10,000 mouths to feed people that are accounting on us every single day to show up to work and not just show up and break even. We have to be profitable.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And we have to grow. If we're not growing, we're moving backwards. And so for me, it's just a drive to the accountability that's on my shoulders to perform for the people that
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I love it. I love it. Where can the listeners go to follow you or find out a little bit more about what you're doing?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
What year was that that you started as a tech with them?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I love it. Love it. How about you, Justin?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Lots of different ways. My cell phone's on anyhourgroup.com. You can track me down there. I'm happy to give it to you here if you'd like. Yeah, go ahead. Look it up on social media. Cell phone's 801-787-3546. You're all invited to come to any of our services in Utah. I do tours regularly. Just let me know you're interested. Let me know how many people.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
With NER, 2011. July 1st, 2011. We were about two and a half million in revenue total. Wow. It's a small shop. Yeah. Just a small shop figuring things out. And I'll tell you the key to success and the growth, because we've seen tremendous growth and success, is that the people you surround yourself with from the very beginning.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
We're going to hang out at Topgolf, hit some balls, have some food. There's nothing better than getting to know people over some chicken wings. Then we're going to do a shop tour.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Awesome. We're going to see what's there. Ishmael, Dustin, appreciate you guys both coming into the studio. It's been a great one. Until next time.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You need to be looking for leaders in every person you hire because you're developing leaders. And the more you can find the right people, the more you can progress as a business. Absolutely. So I've seen the business go from two and a half million to today, just the Utah location where I started. All organic growth did a little over 110 million last year. Amazing.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And then as a group, I mean, because we set out to create what we couldn't find, which... We wanted to create a real partnership where people could come benefit from resources, tools, experience, a team that scaled a business from small to the top. And so that's what we set out to create, and that's appealing to people. They don't want to sell out. They don't want to just give their business away.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
They want to create an environment that's strong and successful for all the people in the business. So we've been very successful. Right now we have 30 locations in the United States covering 10 states.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Right now, approximately 500 million. Jesus Christ. That's awesome.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
It's been fun. 500 million among 30 locations you've been? That's awesome. Correct. That's great. Cool. Very good, man. So both incredible backgrounds. Both have been growing it. Hey, guys. It's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
We've got Mr. Ishmael Valdez, and we've got Dustin Van Norman here on the show. Welcome to the show, boys. Thank you. Excited to have you. Thanks, guys. Yeah, dude. Thanks for traveling up. It's been a good time. So let's get a quick brief synopsis. If you can give me like just the 60 second version of your story. I know you came from different backgrounds in the trades. If you can go into that.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby. It's interesting. It brings up the question like why? Why is private equity involved in the trades right now? Because, you know, historically they're going waves with different industries, different businesses. Why is it so appealing right now?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You mentioned pandemic proof. I mean, you look at what happened. Private equity was interested in our trades before the pandemic hit. But then what happened when they saw how it affected us? I mean, we were an essential service. We didn't shut down. In fact, all of us grew like crazy if we had our stuff together. Right. Of course. They saw how well we handled that crisis in the entire world.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
It was a worldwide crisis. And the trades came through like just fantastic. And that's that's appealing.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Well, it's just become so, so expensive to be a publicly traded company these days. And the amount of return that you can get in private equity versus publicly traded companies is just drastically different. And, you know, you mentioned and alluded to it like
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
We are in the AI era, and when you're analyzing businesses of what is AI going to replace, really the trades is going to be one of the very last type of any type of industry that's going to be replaced by artificial intelligence and robotics, right? Like for a robot to show up to somebody's home to analyze the situation and customize an approach, like that just seems so far-fetched versus...
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
versus like, you know, just an arm that's replacing and doing a task over and over again in a manufacturing facility. And so, you know, you look at these, these software companies that have traditionally taken a lot of money from private equity and whatnot. Those things are being, I mean, you got softwares being written in three days through artificial intelligence.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You just got like, I mean, the ability to replicate most businesses is, is just, like crazy. And so I think that's where the blue collar work really shines through.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And yet somehow the government still broke. i know it's sad do you feel like do you feel like taxing all your people 13 on the top oh my gosh it's trust me do you feel like that keeps people out of the market because of the bear of entry i think i think it brings out the best in people too so it does keep a
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So what are we talking from zero to what were you doing in revenue?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Right? You know, it's interesting. These barriers of entry, I think, create tons of value, a ton of opportunity because, yeah, most guys aren't willing to go through any type of barrier of entry. That's really what made us successful in building a solar company out of Washington State.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
For anybody that's ever looked in the solar industry, typically it's going to be around where the sunniest places with the highest electric rates. I mean, we're talking about Seattle, which is not the sunniest, and the lowest cost energy in the United States. And that's where we chose to establish our business, where literally everybody else was taking the low-hanging fruit and working up.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
We took the highest hanging fruit and worked down. That's dope, man. And because of it, we established ourselves in a way that was just completely different. Having these different regulations. You know, Washington State's just as crazy as California when it comes to regulation, right? Like electrical regulation, you got to have, you can only have two apprentices per journeyman.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You know, like... See, that I can't deal with, bro.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah, I mean, we have literally the craziest electrical licensing standard in the U.S. Jesus. But because of it, it kept everyone else out, right? And if we could be compliant and learn how to be compliant, right, learn how to play within the rules of the game, that ultimately allowed us to dominate, right? And that's really the key to this whole thing is, like, what are the rules?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Can I create any additional rules?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You know, that's probably the closest to competing with us, Daryl. Is that right? Yeah. I mean, zero to 233 in four and a half years. Let's go, baby. Just got to give you some crap. No, that's sweet, man. In the HVAC, you said you were in plumbing as well?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah, I mean, we got a big shift in our educational system that has to take place. I mean, you think about it, right? Like, AI is banned in schools right now. Like, you can't even use ChadGBT to write a paper or do anything because it's cheating. Like, I mean, that's where we're at, where we need to completely...