Dr. Vin Gupta
Appearances
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Hello, everybody. Great to be with you. On episode four, we are lucky to be joined by a senior leader at the World Health Organization, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove. And I'm glad she's here because there's a lot that we need to talk about. We actually did some media last week for broadcast TV. And the fact is, you can't talk about much in five minutes. And so Maria is going to join us.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Well, Maria, thank you for joining us. And as a tee-up, I'd love to, if you could just give us the audience a little bit about your background at WHO and what your works looked like over the last, especially during the pandemic.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
You know, just hearing you speak, Maria, it's so easy to understand now how, especially in our information environment, the way our politics are, not just in the United States, but globally,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
How WHO operating in a very high stakes environment where to your exact point, I love your framing there, which is you are entering a country at a point in time in which it's the most complicated, it's the most difficult and most challenging.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Very few people want to be identified or any country wants to be identified with potentially the next pathogen of pandemic potential because so many things, economic consequences, reputational consequences. And then that's the environment that you guys are being dropped into and operating.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
And it's obviously, obviously all you're going to get in many cases is arrows and criticisms and scrutiny and very little praise because, you know, no one wants to be receiving bad news or having to deal with that type of news. And there you are having to navigate all those complexities.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
So one, I just want to say, we recognize that many, many people do recognize that the indelible role that the World Health Organization plays on things, conversations like this longer form, that I hope helped to really reframe this narrative is, you know, when you think about, so we know the purpose, the purposes as a convener.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
I mean, this is one of many purposes, data information sharing on really sensitive topics, like a concerning new infection, recognizing that countries will not just post to social media. If they see something wrong, no one's going to just do that. And I think it's important to emphasize that to,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
to our listeners here, there is no off-ramp that it doesn't involve the WHO or some version of it, which is to say that no one's just going to magically share this information. You have to build negotiations, treaties.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
And without it, we wouldn't have, however imperfect, we wouldn't have the mechanisms in place that you've worked to establish. Can you talk about, I know you're working on some new efforts here in light of COVID, lessons learned.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Wondering if you can talk to us about how you're thinking about optimizing that, recognizing some of the criticisms, some of the scrutiny that WHO has received in the last few years.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Well, thank you for saying all that. And it just reminds me that I spend a lot of my time as I'm a pulmonologist and often think about the intersection of climate and health, as I know the WHO does. And it's something that you have to be very careful.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
This is no surprise to you, how you talk about, because certain words will trigger and you'll immediately turn off four or five and 10 of people that might be wanting to listen to you. And And there's a short-termism that afflicts how we think about policymaking right now where it's easy. The easy button is to say let's – we didn't like something about some entity or some response.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
We're just going to say let's shut it down or let's tear it down. The hard thing and what a WHO or climate health advocates for that group of entities and individuals, that is a body of work that by definition is medium to long term for a reason, for prevention, to prevent the scenes in Rio and New Delhi and others from playing out again. And it is...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
We operate, unfortunately, in a political and policymaking timeline that rewards short-termism often. And so it's with that, Tia, I'm curious... So we've seen some of the criticism, direct criticism of the WHO when it comes to handling of the root causes of the COVID-19 pandemic.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
And I think it's important that we talk about that because you've done an amazing job, I think, of level setting why the WHO exists. and how it improves all of our lives because it is the shield for every single family in the United States from something bad from happening. Without it, again, there is no other off-ramp or alternative.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
I'm curious though, when people want to say, if they hear the words WHO, I would imagine some people are triggered to think something negative. Not everybody, obviously. And maybe that is vis-a-vis the etiology of COVID-19. So if you were talking to somebody that firmly believe that you didn't do enough to be transparent about the origins of COVID-19. What's the response?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
And how was WHO responding to that specific question?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Maria, zoonotic, just for the audience. Zoonotic.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Yeah, you know, something that you mentioned, I mean, everything you mentioned, it just reminds me of the earlier part of our conversation, which is sometimes you are caught in a crossfire without actual authority to force any individual country to do anything.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
We're hopeful for everybody's better angels to collaborate because it's in all of our best interests from a global citizen standpoint to know what's out there, to information share, to be better for the next time. A WHO only has so much power to compel them. And to your point, it's quite limited. You can't force any individual country to do anything. You're beholden to them to be transparent.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
If they're not being transparent, it is then going to potentially birth what's happening right now, which is politics over health. Do you feel like, I mean, to state the obvious, but let's have this conversation, it feels like the WHO is being unfairly blamed for realities beyond its control, but wondering how you would respond to that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Really, really well stated, Maria. I mean, before we wrap, I want to be respectful of your time. I want to acknowledge the fact that our audience members are busy. And I've loved this conversation. Frankly, I've learned a lot in this conversation that, again, it's not amenable to a three- to five-minute media segment or something even shorter or a headline. So you've made us all smarter, Maria.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
I will say, in 60 seconds, can you give us... Just a quick snippet on the ways in which, and this could be in closing, the ways in which WHO makes the lives of every American better. Maybe a few things that are top of mind.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Well done, Maria. And with that, I'm going to give everybody their time back. Maria Van Kerkhove. Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, thank you for your time today. Hope this is the first of many conversations, but thank you for all your work.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
And we're going to dive deeper into why the WHO matters to every single American across the country. It's an organization that does a lot for us, often behind the scenes, and often we don't really have enough time to talk about that. So that's why she's going to join us. Before she joins us, I just want to give you a sense of what we're trying to do here. This is episode four of a new podcast.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Maria, that was a lot there. And it reminds me of some of the conversations you and I have had in the lead up to last week and just our ongoing dialogues behind the scenes. It strikes me, I served 12 years in the US Air Force, now in the reserves. And what I've realized is very few people, I mean, you can't get 100% of, say, all Americans to agree on anything.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
But I think very few people question the role of the military. And they understand it. They understand why it exists. It's not perfect. There's things that need reform. I mean, I can say this both as a voting American and also on the inside. And when I hear you talk about what the WHO does during National Public Health Week last week, Maria joined us for a segment on Morning Joe.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
For those of you that may not have had a chance to check it out, please do. But you talk about all these vital deliverables and the ways in which WHO makes the lives of every American better. And I'm wondering why... It's even questioned.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
And I'm curious how when you are sitting with your fellow leaders at WHO, what's not getting through to a large segment of the American public about why WHO makes their lives better?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
health-focused podcast on all things healthcare and public health. We know we have a wide audience, all of you. We know that we want to be respectful and time-efficient since all your lives are very, very busy. And we want to make sure that we're doing something new here, not just redundant.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
No, no true words have been spoken. And I will say, when we think about everything that you just said, and the opportunity to be able to tell that story, I think the analogy to how we talk about defense is correct. it's clear why that industry exists, why the military exists. And we recognize and acknowledge reform needs to happen, but nobody fundamentally questions the very existence of the U.S.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
which is why the caliber of guests and the entities that they represent is a signal for what this represents. We just had for episode two, Dr. Bob Califf, the recent former FDA commissioner. He's a good friend and mentor. And we talked about the role of misinformation in our current just healthcare landscape and the work that he did at FDA to try to combat that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
military. And I think we do need to tell a better story. To that end, It feels like because that story isn't getting through or why WHO exists or what it does for us isn't getting through to everyone. I mean, I think it's getting through to a good number of people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
But because it's not getting through or there isn't that echo chamber necessarily as much, obviously politics have gotten away, misinformation has gotten away. We should get into that a little bit. I am wondering... What do we do about that? And so you had said we need to change the narrative. And let me ask sort of a finer question.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
It feels like a good number of people and sort of a sect of the American society is willing to say, you know what, we don't need it. We don't need an entity like it. We're gonna be fine.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Can you help explain what's at risk without the WHO, that there isn't an entity that exists that could just step in and do all the vital preventative work and what that would mean for every family at the dinner table this evening, that there isn't sort of a plan B here. But I'm curious from your own vantage, how would you react to something like that? Oh, we just don't need it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
And really to keep up this momentum and to show you that your time is worth listening to this podcast. We're going to keep up the high caliber of guests and the entities that they represent here with Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove. Dr. Van Kerkhove, great to see you. Maria, I'm going to refer to you as Maria, if that's okay.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Yeah. And I think it's really important for people to keep in mind just as you know, we're reaching millions of people on the Midas Touch Network. And This is an important thing to talk about because there is a belief, and I do think a proportion of people that believe, why do you need a secretariat to be data sharing? And the reality is you do need that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
Somebody's not going to post something about a novel infectious disease to media or to the business wire or to X or another social media. I want to ask you a question on that. If the WHO did not have its central role in health information convening, data sharing, I know you guys are working on a new set of pandemic negotiations, which I'd like you to talk about if you can.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 4: Why Trump’s WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk (Dr. Van Kerkhove)
But if you didn't exist to do something fundamental like that, it's not like... A country somewhere in the world, if they saw something concerning, would necessarily be compelled to share it and provide that information to the global populace. But curious your reaction to that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
Hi again, Midas Mighty. It's great to be with you for episode six. And we have quite the guests for episode six, especially given the times. We have former head of CMS, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Nikita Brooks-LaSure.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And I think it's I'm glad you said that. And I think it's really important to, you know, as we think about what happens over the next six months. So the executive order essentially says that the president would like to see voluntary compliance with the request to lower prices to some benchmark, his most favored nation status benchmark.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
We're going to pay as little as the country that's paying the least for all the drugs in the Medicare program. Pretty expansive ask, I think pretty unprecedented ask.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And I'll say from my own two cents here is that the likelihood that there's voluntary compliance from pharmaceutical companies to meet that expectation is probably low and that we shouldn't be surprised if we don't see a lot of voluntary compliance at any compliance in six months or 180 days when then there's the ability to do rulemaking as you pointed out.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
But then what happens at 180 Days is an effort to try to either pass legislation or do rulemaking through an agency. And legislation is hard, but they have the majority, so we'll see. Rulemaking, an agency-based approach by itself, it always seems fraught with potential challenges and reversals. And so what you've done, just to emphasize it to listeners,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
Because I think sometimes I've had this conversation with your former director of Medicare, Dr. Meena Seshamani, who was just on the episode prior. You guys made quite the team. But sometimes I think it gets lost just in the noise of the news cycle, how significant your leadership was to, and remains, to do Medicare drug negotiations on the 10 most commonly, or 10 of the most commonly used drugs
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
amongst Medicare beneficiaries, which also happened to be some of the most costly, that is a big deal. And that is the hard work of passing a law through Congress. And I say this as a clinician, Chiquita, seeing the news cycle yesterday, it is very confusing to people that are not rooted as experts and as your top official in the Biden administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
You live and breathe the policy elements of this. You can understand what's real from what's not real. I'm not so sure that the ways in which the headlines were capturing, you know, live, the news conference, that this wasn't viewed as something that it isn't, which is a marketing campaign, in my opinion, not actual substance, i.e. the hard work that you guys drove, but...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
That's just my two cents, my opinion that I will not, we're not going to see voluntary compliance in 180 days from pharmaceutical companies. And then the hard work of actually passing something either to Congress or augmenting what you've done or trying to do rulemaking through an agency begins. And, you know, that's fraught with the usual challenges.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
Can I, you know, mindful of your time here, and we always try to keep these sort of snackable to 20 to 30 minutes. I wanted to get your thoughts just as we wrap on the Make America Healthy Again agenda. As somebody that, you know, and I think,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
you as a top leader in healthcare policy circles, me as a clinician that's seeing how people, there's more patients across the country or consumers that take a supplement than take prescription medications. And I think we all just want the right thing to be done for disease prevention, wellness, longevity. That spans the political spectrum. Mm-hmm.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
What worries me, and I'm curious your thoughts, is it feels like what I've seen of the Make America Healthy, again, agenda is it's certainly an effective messaging and branding campaign. But when you look at the details, there is a focus on, and I like the focus on removing ultra-processed foods. Great, we're messaging on that. There's a focus on disease prevention, whatever that means.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
It means a lot of different things. A focus on sort of healthy living and exercise, things that I know the current health secretary talks about a lot and does videos on. But it doesn't strike me that any of those things are new or novel talking points. And during your tenure, you talked a lot about all of that. Bob Califf at FDA talked a lot about that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
It strikes me that every other health secretary, both Democrat and Republican, Scott McClellan, others have talked about this. So I'm curious your view on the novelty of Maha as an idea, as a brand versus as substance. And are you seeing anything that feels novel in you that strikes you as, oh gosh, I wish we had thought about that?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And to put a fine point on that, and Chiquita, thanks for bringing that up, you're referencing cuts to fundamental research or biomedical research grants across the country, major research centers here. There was actually a major study in JAMA, Journal of the American Medical Association, published on Thursday this past week,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
highlighting $1.2 billion in cuts to NIH research grants, $560 million of which had already been delegated and now is being clawed back. And to your point, this is for phase three clinical trials for the next chemotherapeutic agent that whether regardless of your political affiliation, that's something you want available should you or a loved one need it. in time in the future.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
I am so excited that she's here, especially since it's, as we talked about in the past, the purpose of this podcast is to profile and platform the nation's best healthcare leaders so that you can hear directly from them on issues that matter, especially issues that are dominating the news cycle.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And I'm glad we're closing on this because some of these impacts, we're seeing measles and the ways in which measles is being messaged on, soft messaging on the purpose of measles vaccination in some cases from some of our senior leaders. But then to your point, we're not going to necessarily see the impacts of a pipeline that isn't as robust maybe for a few years, if not five or 10 years. And
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And it's important to keep that in mind, that the impacts here are not just near-term, but we're gonna see the long-term impacts here in terms of brain drain.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
We talked to our listeners about this a few episodes ago, that 75% of 1,600 scientists surveyed by Nature, the scientific journal, back in February, in light of everything that's happening, said they're seriously considering leaving the country. And these are not two-way doors. Once people leave, it's hard to get them to come back and trust that things are going to be okay.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And so, Chiquita, I just wanted to say thank you for first bringing that up towards the end, because I think that's something that we don't talk enough about, the medium to long-term impacts of what's happening today. Some of these impacts will not be seen immediately. And I wanted to give you the floor for any final comments.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
Jaquita, thank you. I couldn't agree more. And I hope you'll come back. I suspect that we're gonna need your expertise often. So please come back.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
So without further ado, I'm going to bring Chiquita on to talk about all things pricing and just all the seemingly endless news cycle. But Chiquita, thanks for being here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
Maybe if we start, thank you. When you were thinking about the program, and it probably would surprise a lot of listeners to realize that what you innovated on pioneered and successfully passed through Congress. Negotiating drug prices with manufacturers for some of the most commonly used but high-cost drugs for Medicare beneficiaries. I'm a pulmonologist.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
A lot of the medications on the list, that first 10, are very common medications, anticoagulants for a patient that might have a FID, anti-diabetes medications, you name it. Very common medications.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And yet this was a successful effort for the government with large negotiating power to say, you know what, we'd like to directly have pharmaceutical companies engage with us and figure out what a fair price could be, something that's common in other parts of the world. But up until your leadership, we really haven't seen that in the U.S.,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And when we talk about high drug costs, you know, anywhere from three to five, Americans historically have paid anywhere from three to five times higher for branded pharmaceuticals than say their peers elsewhere in the world. Can you talk about why it's taken so long to do what you did?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
Chiquita, I wanted to dive right in. And it wasn't lost on any of our listeners, the big announcement yesterday from the Trump administration on drug pricing. And yet, as you and I were talking about, there's a difference between
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
pursuing these, what I think, objectives that we all agree on, lowering drug costs in the US by executive order versus all the amazing work that you did as head of CMS through the Inflation Reduction Act. And I was wondering if you could tease that out for us.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And just to emphasize the point, this has been looked at time and again, why are drug costs in the United States, historically, up until, again, just what you announced last year, why are they so high? Because we have historically not negotiated drug prices with manufacturers. That's been viewed as one of the leading drivers of high drug costs. That's now changing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
And to your credit, Chiquita, and to your earlier point, the Trump administration is continuing this program. They see merit in it. It's apolitical. It just makes good sense, which is why I wanted to also probe at this notion of tackling drug pricing by executive order. It strikes me that – you said this in the TM – A lot of details on what is most favored nation status.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
President Trump's sort of signature part of that executive order was that we would pay no more or Americans would pay no more for drugs in Part B and Part D. Basically, any medication you get in an outpatient ambulatory clinic through an IV or take it home.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
that he's stipulating that he voluntarily wants pharmaceutical companies to lower their prices, a most favored nation status benchmark, meaning whatever country's paying the lowest for all medications and those various programs of Medicare Part D and Part D, that's what the United States patient's going to pay, or that's what Medicare's going to pay for those pharmaceuticals. And
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
You know, it's not clear to me if it's, it seems like most favored nation status in his view is whoever's paying the least, that's what we're going to pay, which is quite expansive. To your point, there's a lot of, you can't just do this by executive order. There's legal challenges. There's powerful lobbying and interest groups that will have a say.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
There is the concern that I think we often hear about R&D and stifling innovation, which we can talk about in a bit. But you pursued a very difficult vexing problem through legislation, and now it's statutory law. And courts historically are loath to overturn statutes that are passed by Congress when Congress has spoken.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
versus an executive order, which I think we've seen historically, especially in President Trump's first term on this issue. These do not stand the test of time and they're easily parried. Curious your reaction when you saw what happened yesterday versus the hard work of actually doing or passing the drug pricing efforts through the Inflation Reduction Act.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 6: Biden’s Medicare Reformer on Why Trump’s Health Plan Is Smoke and Mirrors
Just the level of seriousness, the level of effort that goes into one versus the other.
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Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
Mighty Smarty, great to see you again. I want to do a rapid response, just given the news cycle and all the issues on health that continue to pop. I don't want to wait too long, and I'm going to keep this brief. Number one, fluoride. You've heard probably in the news that RFK is saying that we're going to ban fluoride in water sources across the country. Turns out that doesn't make any sense.
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Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
This is, again, a solution he's offering in search of a problem that does not exist in the United States. Fluoride has benefits when within safe levels. Again, it prevents tooth decay, cavities, and frankly, it keeps kids in school. If kids have cavities, they're likely to be absent from school for a day or two as they deal with it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
So fluoride supplementation has been shown to actually keep kids in school, learning, and doing the things that they should be doing. So that's number one. Number two, Utah's movement towards banning fluoride is completely just genuflecting to no signs of evidence, no evidence-based science, nothing really legitimate coming from the HHS agency right now under Kennedy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
There's no evidence, again, that what Utah has done at the state level to ban fluoride now in the shrinking water supply is based on any new evidence or new insights. They're simply genuflecting and trying to curry favor, it seems. So important to keep that in mind. We monitor the water supply extremely closely for fluoride. There's never been any issues in the United States.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
And when fluoride, for example, is outside what we recommend it to be, at very high levels, can it cause problems? Sure, of course. And that's what RFK is pointing to. Some studies suggesting that when fluoride is at excessive levels, potentially it can cause issues with bone development, potentially even brain development.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
And so yes, if there was a concern about excessive fluoride in the drinking water supply, which again does not exist, That's something we would be needing to look into. We monitor the water supply very closely. It's not an issue. Number two, real quickly, an update on measles. Measles and the outbreak in Texas, primarily in Texas, continues to worsen.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
This is a solution that he's offering in search of a problem, which, by the way, doesn't exist in the United States. This is what he does. He draws fringe science and he draws sort of half-truths from science that has not been proven to actually be what he thinks it to be and then starts to generalize and make these grandiose statements. And that's exactly what he's doing here with fluoride.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
We have a former top vaccine regulator at the FDA just yesterday said that he believes that this is going to be one of the worst measles outbreaks on record and that our accomplishment over the last 20 years of actually having removed and eradicated measles from the United States that we're at risk of losing that status, which would be an enormous, enormous stain on Kennedy's HHS.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
and really reflective of the damage he's done, not just over the last few months and his tepid endorsement of the vaccine, of the measles vaccine, for example, which, by the way, is the best way to protect yourself from measles. We've said this time and again on this podcast and other venues. One dose of the vaccine starts promoting antibodies against measles in just a few days.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
It's 93% effective. Two doses, 97% effective. They are very safe. And unfortunately, he's been very tepid in his messaging on the measles vaccine, and he's been undermining its safety and its efficacy profile and promoting mistruths about this very vaccine for the last 20 years. So it's no wonder that we are where we are directly because of him.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
Real quick, also to fact check some of the nonsense he's been putting out there. Inhaled budesonide. He keeps talking about inhaled budesonide and antibiotics like clarithromycin as somehow cure-alls for measles. I'm a pulmonologist. I use inhaled budesonide for certain conditions. I use chlorothromycin for certain conditions. We do not use them as treatments for measles.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
There's a very clear use case for things like inhaled steroids, antibiotics like chlorothromycin. Measles is not one of them. It's complete nonsense to suggest that these are things that have been proven to be treatments. Can they be helpful if somebody has a pneumonia? potentially pneumonia-like complications in the setting of measles, maybe an inhaled steroid could potentially be useful.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
Is it a treatment? No, it could help reduce symptoms potentially. And again, we use it. We use it all the time in American medicine. We do not use it in any way, shape, or form as a treatment for measles. So again, real truth, both on fluoride, there's a lot of nonsense out there. It's important to understand that this is something that we take seriously, fluoride in the drinking water supply.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
We monitor it closely. There are no issues with fluoride in the drinking water supply in the United States. And I'd be delighted to look at data from anybody that believes that there is data suggesting that the fluoride levels on our water supply in some way proven to be harmful. It hasn't been. And number two,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
clear-eyed on what is happening with measles and also recognizing, please pass this message on. There are no treatments for measles. Steroids, antibiotics do not treat measles. And this is a big, big thing to emphasize because people are under the wrong impression And they're taking, for example, too much vitamin A. There are cases of overdose to vitamin A causing things like liver toxicity.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
We're seeing these cases pop up in Texas. Again, it's no surprise. Sadly, this is the result and the handiwork of our incumbent health secretary. He's responsible for that because that's what he's been saying and putting out there, not just again for the last few months, but for decades. Real truth. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Can't get enough Midas?
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Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
Check out the Midas Plus sub stack for ad-free articles, reports, podcasts, daily recaps from Ron Filipkowski, and more. Sign up for free now at MidasPlus.com.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
Turns out in the United States, we put fluoride into the water supply for a reason. It prevents dental cavities and tooth decay. And when monitored and within a certain level, it's very safe. It doesn't cause any issues with accelerating any problems in the body, harm to the bones, really no issues whatsoever. And that's been proven time and time again. Here's the other piece.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
We monitor our water supply for its fluoride levels very, very closely. 99.9% of tests for fluoride in the water supply across the United States, greater than 99.9% of tests across the country, frankly, have shown that fluoride levels are at the target goal, 0.7 milligrams per liter. That's where we want it to be.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 3: Fluoride Fearmongering and Measles Lies
Those numbers may not mean a lot to you, but it's to say that we're monitoring the situation extremely closely. The EPA, the U.S. Public Health Service is doing that. It's been doing that for decades. That's why these issues or these suggestions that there's some harm coming from fluoride in the drinking water supply across the United States have no merit to it.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Please, if you know somebody that's taking high doses of vitamin A for that purpose, they're injuring themselves, they're potentially causing significant harm to their body. Number two, Really important to keep in mind here that two doses of the vaccine, 97% effective at preventing measles.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Protection is lifelong, aside in very unusual, exceptional cases, like if you have an immunocompromising condition, that's where you might want to make sure and talk to your medical provider to make sure that you're fully covered. And really critically, if you were just not sure if you have had two doses of the measles vaccine, Just go ahead and get a booster.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
If you're in that group that was born before 1957, I'm sure you've heard, well, you're probably naturally exposed. You should be all good. Listen, if you're somebody in that age group and you're worried or you're living in a community where there's a lot of measles, just either you can do one of two things. Get the measles booster, nothing wrong with it, or get your titers checked.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Those are two actionable things you can do. So in closing, there's a lot going on. There's a lot of noise. We're going to be doing this frequently because you all deserve the best health information possible. What's happening at the highest levels of government is not acceptable. It's being conducted by people who've never really taken care of patients at the bedside, frankly, in the first place.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
So it's even more reprehensible that we're seeing this. Bunch of non-health experts ruining how we speak about important public health issues. topics to the American public. We need a better, better way here. We're going to develop it with all of you. Thank you, Midas Mighty, for your trust. I look forward to seeing you again soon.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Thanks so much, Ben. And hey, Midas Mighty. It's great to be on the Midas Touch Network and on the Midas Touch Podcast. I'm going to be a correspondent on the Midas Touch Network talking about all matters health, giving weekly updates on key issues just to make sure you and your family are informed and have accurate health information. Because you know what? It's pretty self-evident.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
We're not getting that from the sources that we should be getting it from, like the U.S. government. The information environment right now is chaotic, especially on health. And we're going to fix that. We're going to make sure that you have information when stuff hops in the news, like this measles outbreak, which we'll be talking about for this week's update.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Or if it's something unexpected, like say bird flu, we'll be making sure that you have all the information you need. I'll be keeping my pulse on the current events. And we're going to be doing this frequently. Before I get into that, I wanted to give you a little bit of a background on myself. I'm a pulmonologist.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Spent about 30% of my time at the bedside caring for patients in a hospital here in Seattle. I'm a reservist in the U.S. Air Force Reserves, specifically in the Medical Corps. Been in there for 11 years. I've deployed multiple times. And it's really doing what I do in a civilian ICU up at 30,000 feet in the Bay of the Sea 130. So I see...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
American healthcare, I see patients across the spectrum from a lot of different lenses though. And what I promise to you is what I do in my other contributions for media. I'm going to give it to you straight. I'm going to tell you the truth. We're going to focus on actionable things that you and your family can do to stay safe.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
So with that being said, what are the things that you need to know right now this week that are happening in health? Well, number one, I think we can't ignore the news coming out yesterday that RFK Jr. is deciding to cut 10,000 people from the roles of HHS. That's a big deal. And it's going to have real impacts. to everybody, to all of us, to all of our families.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
And I think we should be talking about that in those terms. How are these cuts going to actually impact you and your families? Well, number one, he's bringing all communications under him. So no longer do the NIH, to the FDA, to the CDC get to actually have independence in what they talk about to the American public. They're all going to be now responsible and going up to him.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
And he's going to have a say in terms of what actually gets communicated to all of us. So there's going to be a lot of bias injected into what's actually being said and communicated from all those agencies. By the way, that's not how this has been before.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
All those agencies, NIH, FDA, CDC, have had independence for a reason because we shouldn't be in any way mixing politics and political appointees and their priorities with what these agencies are meant to do, which is to keep all of us safe and informed. So that's a concern. And that concern is already playing out in real time. I'm going to touch a little bit about meat on measles momentarily.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
But the reality is the communications environment on health has already been completely distorted. The CDC's chief spokesperson resigned in protest last Friday for a reason. He wrote a damning op-ed in the Washington Post on Friday detailing why, but basically saying,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
that the American public was not getting accurate information because RFK had already co-opted all the megaphones of those health agencies to advance his own agenda, which is, as we already know, highly, highly skeptical when it comes to vaccine safety and effectiveness, highly anti-science, and frankly, just putting forth a bunch of junk information when it comes to what people should and should not be doing when it comes to, say, measles.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
It's a bunch of nonsense. And so the communications environment is only going to get worse, which makes this engagement even more important. That's number one. The information that we're getting from the highest sources, the highest appointed officials, you can't trust it. Number two.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
It's important to keep in mind that he's actually reducing workforce personnel from key parts of the FDA that oversee our food and drug supply, specifically quality and safety of our food and drug supply, especially when it comes from imported sources. That doesn't make any sense.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
I mean, we just came out not too long ago from a baby formula crisis where we didn't know what was causing contamination of baby formula. I mean, this is not even two years ago. And we are having constant issues with food contamination. I mean, we talk about salmonella. outbreaks in some of our produce. We've had norovirus issues. We've had multiple cases of listeria in raw meats.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
I mean, this is something that the FDA needs, frankly, more manpower, more human capital to be investing in when it comes to making sure our food supply is safe, not less. It doesn't make any sense.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Our drug supply, we know that we rely, and we knew this especially throughout the pandemic, we rely a lot on drugs being imported from other parts of the world to make sure that Americans have what they need, whether it's Tylenol, whether it's a prescription drug. We don't produce all of that onshore for a variety of reasons.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
So if we don't have enough people at the FDA to actually do critical evaluation of quality and safety of our food and drug supply, which is basically what he's removing when it comes to these cuts, when you look deep down, and he scrutinized where these cuts are coming from, he's doing it in these key, really important areas that frankly need to be reinforced, not widowed. That worries me.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
And then lastly, it's this focus, this sort of marketing-type phrase that he's saying on his YouTube video yesterday that somehow the CDC is gonna return to its core focus on infectious diseases, and that that needs to be kind of its foundational cause, and it needs to return to those roots. You know, it's a nonsensical statement. It may sound good.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
I think he's probably fooling a lot of people when he says that, and they're probably just blindly agreeing with him, but it makes no sense. And here's why. For the last at least 30 years, probably dating well past the last 30 years, the top 10 killers of Americans, and frankly, most people worldwide, are chronic diseases, things like high blood pressure, diabetes. being obese, smoking.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
It's not things like influenza or diarrheal diseases, infectious diseases. It's not any of those things. Those are important. The CDC needs to be investigating outbreaks. Like for example, the measles outbreak, when and where it happens.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
It needs to be keeping its pulse on things like the bird flu outbreak across all mammalian species, luckily not humans, but pretty much every other species has been impacted. CDC needs to focus on that. But this concept that the CDC, that that should be its only focus, completely misses the point. legions of Americans are dying because of chronic disease.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
If it doesn't focus on what's killing us, then what good is it? Who else is going to do that? The answer is no one. It doesn't make sense. Don't listen to it. Question everything he says. He's going to own the comm shop, which is not a good thing because there's going to be no independence. There's going to be no accountability, no cross-check to say, is what he's going to put out actually true?
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Or is it just tinged with political priorities and political jargon? Is the FDA going to actually be able to do its charge and its mission when it comes to evaluating food, especially imported food, especially imported drugs, for quality and safety? I doubt it. If we're losing key personnel, I don't know how that happens. And what's the future of the CDC?
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
If we're saying it needs a return to a focus solely on infectious diseases, who's going to protect us? from the epidemic of chronic disease that we know is killing us. That's the focus here, and he doesn't have a plan. It's got to be the CDC. He can't take that away. Now on to measles. Where are we? You know, this last week, we've already, across the country, we've now crossed over 400 cases.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
We've seen it continue to simmer in places like West Texas and New Mexico. We've actually seen cases where some families have children who've taken so much vitamin A, thinking it's a preventative, potentially even a treatment because of what RFK and his former organizations have been putting out, that they come into the hospital with vitamin A toxicity, which is gonna cause serious organ damage.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
It's not a trivial thing. Here's the issue here. They put out all this garbage medical advice that has no basis in the scientific literature. Like, for example, a healthy diet replete with vitamin A is somehow going to prevent measles infection. Doesn't happen. That somehow it's going to be a substitute for vaccination. Again, not true. And they're putting people's lives at risk.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
I mean, the family of the child that lost their life is convinced that somehow the measles vaccine was part of the problem and that it's somehow precipitating all these rising cases. It is directly because RFK and this prior organization, the Child Health Defense, is putting this information out there. They're actually peddling this, and this is not a new thing for them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
They've been doing this for a very, very long time, and his name was appended to all of it. right before he had to resign from that organization to then become the HHS secretary. So make no mistake, what's happening in West Texas, what's happening in New Mexico and across the country, by the way, we're well past. It's not even April yet.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
We're well past where we were in total case numbers over the last four years. We're already well past that. It's not even April. That's going to get worse. And the reason it's going to get worse is because our incumbent health secretary has created an environment where people think treatments for something like measles exist when they do not.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Listen, RFK and the people around him are not practicing physicians. Pretty much everybody around him has not practiced medicine either in a really long time or has never practiced medicine. They're not credentialed. In most cases, they're not even well-respected by their peers. And yet... that are providing cover for him to put this information out there.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Cod liver oil does not in any way treat measles. Vitamin A in select cases is used as a supplement to help in the management of, say, a child who's unvaccinated, exposed, and hospitalized with measles. It is used as an aid, as a supplement, as part of our treatment approach to a child once they're already super sick with measles. In no way does vitamin A actually prevent the illness itself.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
And by the way, where vitamin A can actually be useful in the world, where people are actually deficient in vitamin A, places like East Africa, parts of Southeast Asia, parts of South Asia, the USAID actually funded programs to actually help get kids that were vitamin A deficient the necessary vitamins and minerals so that they were no longer deficient.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
On day one of the Trump administration, he ended those programs through cutting ultimately USAID. So on the one hand, we're talking about the importance of vitamin A, and yes, it has its purpose in select use cases. not really relevant here in the United States, because the United States doesn't really have vitamin A deficiency.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
But in parts of the world that do, we were actually doing something about it. On day one, the Trump administration actually cut the funding to the ending of USAID. So let's be clear here. There isn't a logical train of thought. They're actually internally inconsistent in their policy.
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Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
If they really cared about this issue, perhaps they wouldn't have cut the programs that are actually helping people when it comes to vitamin A and considerations about measles. So that's one. Two, let's just please keep in mind One shot of the vaccine actually produces detectable antibodies against measles within just a few days.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Remember, you can get... If you are not sure you got two shots of the measles vaccine, just get a booster shot. If you have no proof that you got at least two shots of the measles vaccine, just get a booster shot. It's safe. It's very safe, contrary to misinformation out there. And it can only help you in the case of... If you don't think you got that second shot, if you're not sure...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
If you have an immunocompromising condition, of course, talk to your medical provider. That's always gonna be the default answer, but it's something that you can also be proactive on. And if you're just not sure, get the booster shot. If you're pregnant, if you're pregnant, you're unvaccinated and exposed, immediately talk to your obstetrician.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
We might give you a medication called immunoglobulin to help protect you. So that's something also to keep in mind. But just as a summary here, Measles, we expect this is gonna get worse, probably far worse in terms of caseloads and potentially even kids getting really ill before hopefully it starts to subside. I'm hoping by sometime in the midsummer. This is gonna take some time.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Introducing Meidas Health with Dr. Vin Gupta, Episode 1
Remember, vitamin A is not something that's relevant to measles and the management of measles here in the United States. We do give it to kids that are hospitalized with measles as part of our supportive care, but in no way treats measles and in no way prevents measles.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Hey, Midas Mighty. It's great to see you again. I wanted to share a few words ahead of episode two, which I'm so excited to be sharing with you. It's a conversation with recent former FDA commissioner, Dr. Robert Califf. He is one of our nation's leading health officials. He was FDA commissioner under President Barack Obama and most recently under President Biden.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Dr. Cahill, do you feel Based on the cuts and sort of the gravity of the cuts and the loss of personnel, what I imagine is, I would imagine morale is not high. And amongst those that remain at FTA across these key functions, food quality and safety, vaccine approvals. I mean, we're seeing all these headlines come out. And I think even I sometimes wonder what's actually happening.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
What does this really mean? Can you speak to or just very directly, do you feel like can Americans trust the and do you feel like we have the mechanisms and personnel in place now still to FDA where we can trust our food supply and our and our imported drug supply that it's gone through the necessary scrutiny and rigor to be safe if we put it in our bodies?
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
has eliminated the expertise and the personnel that communicates with the American public on vital health issues. So who's going to do it now? We don't know. You've probably seen esteemed longtime experts like Dr. Peter Marks, who oversaw our vaccine approvals over the last many, many decades, including throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. He basically resigned in protest.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Because it strikes me that for those that remain, obviously you were the leader of this organization twice, both under former President Obama and most recently under former President Biden. You know them well. There's been a lot of high-profile departures.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
It strikes me as a clinician, you know, with a few roles across healthcare, that if I knew that my job was maybe potentially at risk, it would fundamentally make me want to consider proactively switching jobs. Certainly I would lose any sense of connectivity to the organization. So I'm wondering, even for those that remain
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
If you can speak to the risk of brain drain and just talent leaving, not wanting to come back, just the difficulty it is of retention and recruitment into a place like FTA. Because I do think that some of those things don't get talked about enough.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
and was recently came out saying that he was asked by the RFK Jr. team to come up and present data that was favorable to them on the measles vaccine and somehow linking the measles vaccine to autism. This is from recent reporting from the New York Times and other sources that he was asked to produce that information. Obviously, in his own telling, that information does not exist.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, you know, just hearing you speak, I have to ask. I agree with you that we have to give Dr. Macri the new FDA commissioner job. an opportunity. I will say just me, independent of you, looking at early signals, I worry whether or not he's going to have the independence to push back.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And, you know, seeing Dr. Peter Marks, who is a legend, just like yourself, and has made his career at FDA on one of the lead vaccine safety experts, leave, and it seems like with the permission of Dr. Macri, That worries me on what that heralds.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And I'm wondering how you take Dr. Peter Marks leaving and sort of how we should take that recent news coupled to the fact that these advisory committees on important vaccine decision making, especially before Dr. Macri even joined, looked like those were delayed significantly. I'm wondering how much, one, independence you feel like the FDA commissioner can have in this environment.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And then two, what these early signals herald, if anything.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I didn't realize the... That's news to me that all but two of the senior-level officials that once reported to you now have been let go. That is a stunning number. And you're right, a lot of institutional knowledge that bridged presidential administrations. I think it's important to recognize in the case of, say, Dr. Peter Marks,
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
So he was being asked to invent false information. I think it's important, as we see inevitably more and more headlines on these topics and other budget cuts, to understand well beyond the headlines, why does this impact all of you, all of us? Why does it impact if you have children? Why does it impact your children? in an apolitical way, how does it impact maybe grandma and grandpa?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
He bridged presidential administrations and, you know, regardless of whatever the prevailing politics may be in the White House, he was still there for many, many administrations. That's where I'm sure some of the has your.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
When it comes to vaccine safety, I feel like I get a lot of questions as a pulmonologist, as somebody that speaks often to the public on health matters. Can people trust vaccines and their safety profile moving forward? Or do we have to go to Canada to get our flu shot? Will it be as accurate and as useful as the last vaccine developed under your leadership?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I'm wondering when you hear those questions, I'm sure you get some version directly to yourself, some riffing on those same themes. What's your response? And can you reassure us? And if not, what should we be vigilant for?
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
harm and you try to reduce that as much as you can but you can't eliminate it and for everybody listening right now i think dr caleb brings up a really important point one on measles for for all those tracking we already have one of the worst outbreaks we've seen in recent memory case counts here have exceeded the last several years um and this seems like this is only going to get worse before it gets better
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
How does it impact your healthcare access? We have to start talking about these issues. And when we see enormous budgetary cuts for NIH funding and basic science research, You know, that is impactful when I see that. Or maybe when you when you see that you can understand the ramifications. But we have to we have to dig multiple level levels deeper and understand and communicate.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
A reminder, if you're talking to those that might be exposed to measles, if they're pregnant, for whatever reason, unvaccinated, don't know their status, one shot of the measles vaccine is 93% effective at preventing infection. Two shots, 97% effective. Protection is, in nearly every case, lifelong, unlike what we've heard from the new health secretary.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And it's important to keep in mind antibodies are detectable even within a few days. So if you've been exposed... And short of pregnancy, which is a different sort of edge case, if you've been exposed and don't know your status or are unvaccinated, getting vaccinated is indicated, it's the best thing you can do.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
If you're pregnant, exposed, and you don't know your status or know you're unvaccinated, immediately speak to your obstetrician or gynecologist because we might give you a different type of therapy called IVIG therapy. but something to keep in mind. Or if you know somebody that might be at risk, those are things just to keep in mind.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Dr. Kauff, I know that you're in an airport and we only have limited time with you. I do wanna zoom out a bit and just when we think about HHS cuts more broadly, the impact that this is gonna have on our talent pool, good jobs across biomedicine,
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And frankly, what this means, again, I mean, I really want to laser in on things that impact the everyday America that may not be thinking about things that you and I think about often. Wondering if you can zoom out 10 years from now and assuming that what's happening today with these cuts across NIH, research funding cuts, impacts on...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
committees and expertise across FDA that oversees quality and safety across a range of products. What does that mean for the American patient 10 years from now when it comes to access to treatments that might save their life for a cancer or say a chronic cardiometabolic disease or something in between? Can you make that real for us? What's the real patient impact here five, 10 years from now?
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Why does that impact every single American, again, who may not be in the health care field? And it's important to note that those NIH cuts on basic science research, research that, by the way, is long-term in nature. You know, Wagovi and Ozempic, you hear all about those drugs because they're all the rage now. They are incredibly, incredibly important.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And he's somebody that, where there are very few candidates that could get through a Senate confirmation with bipartisan support, he's one of the few that did it. And so that's why it's really important for him, in my opinion, to be heard from at this moment.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I think they're going to reshape the American healthcare landscape. They're going to hopefully portend a new and different and healthier life for people that have access to them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
But it's important to note that 20 years ago, the foundational research that led ultimately to the development of Vagovi, Ozempic, and similar classes of drugs, those new weight loss drugs, was funded by the National Institutes of Health.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
long before any pharmaceutical company saw that research and said, yes, I can do something interesting with that research and maybe make a revolutionary medication. It's important to keep that in mind, that the arc of innovation to get the next amazing medical therapeutic or medical breakthrough can take decades.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
,, But some people like him will leverage any sort of ounce of uncertainty and say that some of us are withholding information and that couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. But I'm glad you brought that up.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And by the way, there's no government out there that's going to step in and fill our gap, the gap that we're creating, that Musk and Trump are creating with their budgetary cuts. There's no private sector company that has the patience or willingness to take on that level of risk. Because remember, it's high risk, but potential high reward. But that risk can be felt over decades.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And I appreciate your focus on post-launch patient registries so that people can get access to therapeutics, but maybe we're still learning as we go when it comes to sort of key questions like indications for use or how long somebody needs to be on a medication. Really, really important.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Also just want to say for cod liver oil, I'm trying to weave in some of the things that I know often get asked by a lot of folks. We're actually seeing people take excess doses of vitamin A either through cod liver oil, which has a lot of vitamin A, or directly as a supplement. then that's causing toxicity.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And they're listening to those that want to misinform, taking these supplements in an unregulated, unsafe way with clear impacts on the body. And so, again, something really important that you're calling out, which is networks that are digital, that are omni-channel, putting better information out there is really important. Which is why I just want to thank you, Dr. Caleb. I know you're traveling.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
You're so gracious to join us. The whole intent of Midas Health is to work with the Midas Touch Network, which is one of the widest reaching digital media platforms in the country. And we're doing exactly what you said. And this is a first effort and we're going to evolve it over time. to reach people in different ways. And we're hoping to build a network of partners to do that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
So, Dr. Caleb, I just want to say thank you for your years of service to the country. Thank you for being on with us this morning. And I hope this is just the first of many episodes with you. But thank you, sir.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Can't get enough Midas? Check out the Midas Plus sub stack for ad-free articles, reports, podcasts, daily recaps from Ron Filipkowski, and more. Sign up for free now at MidasPlus.com.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
There is no other entity out there that's going to be able to replace the United States government, the National Institutes of Health when it comes to ensuring that your children, that all of us as we age, have access to necessary medications to fill critical medical white spaces. And I think it's important.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
that every single time we hear about the next headline, because we will all be bombarded with these issues and these headlines, not just now, but over the next weeks and months, to break it down and distill it as to why this matters to every patient across the country, to every single family.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Because that's the through line, I guarantee you, that our leading health officials and those in power are hoping we do not make and keep connecting the dots. They're hoping we don't do that. Because I'm not sure many of them understand the impacts of what they're doing to their family members. You know, this is not an apolitical. This is not in some way some sort of partisan issue here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
When the FDA is being hollowed out, we're seeing all these cuts to HHS, more broadly to NIH, to CDC, to the committees and the personnel that are guiding our health information, communicating with the American public. They're pretty much all gone.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Access to basic therapeutics that can fill big white spaces like the treatment of Alzheimer's. That impacts Republicans and Democrats. That impacts potentially mom or dad, whether you're a Republican or whether you're a Democrat. And I'm not sure they understand that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Or if they do, one wonders what's really driving a lot of their decision making, because they're not making decisions in the best interests of their loved ones. And so as we have this conversation with Dr. Califf, please keep that in mind. That's the goal here. I'm going to be inviting on other leading government officials, both in power right now at the state level,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
former officials who've guided policy for our country at the national level. We're gonna be having these types of conversations to try to make it as real as possible and to keep you informed. I'll also ensure that we cover the news of the day. If there are issues that are happening that need correction, we're gonna be doing rapid response corrections on this podcast.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
So we're gonna be doing those as necessary as things pop up. And then my goal to you is to bring you the nation's leading experts to hold to account what's happening in Washington so that we all have a voice. Okay, I'll turn to the other side with Dr. Califf. Thank you. Hello, everybody. Excited to welcome you to episode two of Midas Health.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
This is our effort to put good information, good public health information out to the masses to all of you, especially at a time in which I think it's very obvious to say that is lacking from the highest levels of government.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I am honored to have somebody I consider a close mentor and a friend, the recent former FDA commissioner, Dr. Robert Califf, who's joining us en route back to his home in North Carolina. Dr. Califf, thank you for being here, especially amid the times. We're really honored, sir.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, Dr. Califf, I'm going to give you the floor here, just your comments and reaction to the last week and what you're seeing at FDA and more broadly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
or they're people that we know have loyalties to the politics of the incumbent secretary, RFK Jr., not necessarily to the science and to the profession where their loyalties should be. And so I wanted to tee up and give you a sense of what to expect with me and Dr. Califf in conversation. We're going to talk about say, 35 minutes or so. And, you know, we were trying to make it real.
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Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, Dr. Caleb, first of all, we should have done disclosures on your basketball affiliations for those that no longer want to listen. I hope that's not many. And congratulations to your Blue Devils. What a run. Exciting weekend ahead.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I do want to, you know, I noticed you posted on LinkedIn and other social channels something to the effect that the FDA, as we've known it this week, you had posted this, is now finished. And, you know, when you talk about the impact of these cuts, I understand it's just having, you know, living and breathing health and health policy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
But I'm wondering if you can make it real for our listeners who maybe aren't thinking about medical device safety and food safety. even if there's a self-evident quality to some of these cuts and their impact, how is this going to impact the life of an everyday American?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And I was trying to elicit from him and his expertise. Why are these HHS cuts? It may seem self-evident to us, but why are these cuts so impactful to all Americans, to families across the country? to people that may not be thinking about these issues the way maybe some of us are thinking about them every single day. Why does this impact everybody?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I do want to ask a follow-up on that and then zoom back out to just broader food and drug safety issues.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
So when you mentioned rare diseases, I noticed there's optimism around an experimental Alzheimer's treatment that I'm sure you saw some lay press around about last week, that for those with a genetic predisposition to Alzheimer's, this treatment, for all our listeners out there, delayed the onset
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
for a very high-risk group that was almost guaranteed to develop symptoms by at least a decade, if not more, and that the funding for this trial has been stopped in its tracks. And so who knows what happens to patients that are reliant on this medication.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Obviously, it's sort of pre-FDA, but it's an example of what's at risk here in terms of the treatments in our toolkit for providers across the country. Five, 10 years down the line for something that is unmet when it comes to treatments for Alzheimer's. Not necessarily a rare disease, but I think something that could ring home to a lot of people. I'm curious...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And how does it impact everybody from food safety, drug safety, especially as we're moving to secure more foods and more drugs from imported sources? It's important to note that a lot of these HHS and FDA cuts are gonna impact personnel and committees overseeing food and drug safety, especially from imported sources. That's number one. Two, he is effectively, RFK Jr.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Do you feel like there is public understanding of what these cuts mean when it comes to treatments and novel therapeutics? Or is that message not getting or is that the consequences of what's happening this week? Is that not landing at scale?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Well, hello, everybody. This is episode eight of the Midas Health. I am so delighted that you're with us, that you've been sticking with us as we've been building out this health content for the Midas Touch Network, which, as I'm sure many of you have seen, is the number one most downloaded podcast in the country.
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Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Absolutely.
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Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Building on this, I love where the two of you are headed. I am curious. I heard a stat that X percent, greater than 10 percent of Google searches in any given month have some sort of healthcare intent. I have pink eye. Is the measles vaccine safe? Everything in between.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And both of you have mentioned, I agree, Dr. Singh, that Dr. Hotez is incredible on social and is very courageous and has paved the path for a lot of us. And it strikes me, I also feel like how we, academia and how we're trained and what is considered a worthwhile use of time and what is judged, I will say in my own case, and I think I mentioned this privately to Dr. Hotez, that
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Well, I should say for all our listeners here, and it's a wide listener or wide audience that we're reaching. So I should say for that audience that, and Dr. Singh, I don't know if I shared this with you, that I first met Dr. Hotez back in 2009. When I was doing, it was before we all left for Fogarty Fellowships and I was going to China for a year.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And still being in the middle part of my career, I don't know if the division chief of pulmonary medicine understood, at least in the early days of the pandemic, the importance of pushing back across media channels and that that was valuable use of time versus self-aggrandizing or complete waste of time.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And there isn't that same judgment and immediate focus on writing the research paper than not on you know, a tweet or whatever it may be.
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Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And I don't feel like there's that same reflex, oh, that's not a good use of time on the Maha side because they are fully embracing reaching as many people as possible, Midas fully embracing reaching as many people as possible, you know, 20 million listeners potentially in a given day. And I like that. I think if they've gotten one thing right is that They're out there in the digital space.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
I don't agree with 99% of their messaging, but all mechanisms of reach are fair game, and we're not going to judge it. The question I have is, going back to the Google search, I just Googled what, I'm curious what the AI summary was. If I Googled, is the measles vaccine safe? And then it gives me an AI readout that, you know, cited to the study level of, yes, it's safe.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And look at X, Y, Z data points. I'm wondering if you don't have the 15 minutes, that's not scalable, your time to do 15 minutes with every patient to reassure them, Dr. Singh or Dr. Hotez. We're in this world where it's all about digital misinformation and AI-driven information at the point of search.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Are we just in that transition phase where then AI is going to allow us, will be a buttress towards misinformation because people will have their searches and they're going to get curated results back that are summarized, that actually summarize the data? Are you hopeful about the future, in other words? And Dr. Singh, curious your take.
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Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And Dr. Ho just gave an incredibly inspiring speech just on the purpose of an academic career in medicine, all things related to scholarship in medicine and really pursuing a career. an impactful career beyond the bedside in addition to bedside care. And so, Dr. Hotez, that has stuck with me 16 years later. And just thank you for everything in the intervening years in your leadership. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Big credit to the founders and especially for diversifying the content and really focusing in on health. As mentioned, we're trying to use this time as efficiently as possible. We're trying to bring the nation's best. Since the nation's best is not necessarily in government at the highest levels anymore, we're going to bring them to you through this venue.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
I so well said to the two of you, and I appreciate both the last commentaries Dr. Hotez, but then just the conversation on AI, its applications, and its promise and pitfalls, both from you, Dr. Singh, Dr. Hotez. I will say, just to build on what you just said, I couldn't agree more. I think both of you have highlighted that
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
docs, medical providers of all stripes, we aren't weird to be in a crisis communication type environment. We're not usually getting stones and darts thrown at us and being criticized in very direct terms. And so this is a very different, it's not like political communications or business communications where you have to be used to that type of environment. It's very different at scale.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And I agree. I think it has led to a chilling silence because people don't want to get criticized. They don't want to hear negative, nasty things, which I don't blame them. And then the blowback potentially to the institution. I've seen that directly, exactly to your point, Dr. Hotaz.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Sticking with you, Dr. Hotez, to begin with, I'm curious your thoughts on the current state of, you know, we'll get to measles in a second. But, you know, again, I just said that I met you first at the NIH. You're seeing what's happening. Wondering now three months in how you're digesting it all.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
You know, as we've been having this incredible conversation, I didn't know which way this would go. And my gosh, as we branched into AI, future of pediatrics, we talked to our patients. It started with measles, but I think it's gone this incredible direction.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
I've been getting pinged because it looks like the highly anticipated, to some, I don't know if I was highly anticipating it, but the Make America Healthy Again Commission report just came out. Dr. Hotez and Dr. Singh, I'm sure you're going to be getting your queries to respond to it. But
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
I guess the key takeaways, there was a focus, number one, ultra-processed foods, which I think isn't surprising. A second focus on chemical exposures and potential toxins in the environment, probably not surprising given RFK's history in environmental health work. Three, quote-unquote, more gold standard science studies. Four, a focus on the overuse, also quote unquote, of medicine.
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Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And then lastly, corporate influence in medicine. When you hear those pillars, I know I have my opinions on this, but Dr. Hotez, starting with you, curious what you think about just the five pillars. I know this is a rapid reaction and you'll have time to sort of dig in after, but
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Gosh, you know, both of you just said it beautifully. I feel like Maha is a rebrand effort to exactly what you just said, which is stuff that we already talk about. There's nothing new here. But it's a repackaged set of pillars that's being done and driven by people that know how to get attention and they know how to be controversial.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
And, you know, some would even say who really are believers in this compelling And then also, Dr. Hotez, you both of you have actually made this point, somehow othering the rest of us, saying that we've been pulling the rug on the eyes of the American patient and that we've been withholding information, whereas we've been doing the exact opposite.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
I am mindful of your collective time and the time of our listeners here. I do want to end on hopeful notes here. I think there's been some, you know, understanding the future of pediatrics, applications of AI, talked about the Maha report. Dr. Singh, starting with you, what are you hopeful about in this, what is I think a challenging era across a range of dimensions? What gives you hope right now?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
That's fine. Dr. Hostos.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
I have a thought. Those answers were incredible, and I know that I'm coming up on time. But I wonder if I can get both your takes on this. Something that I've been thinking a lot about is... Your areas of hope are fantastic. I do think we don't have enough of a stick approach in medicine, which is to say that we focus so much in the early years of entering the profession on first do no harm.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
We take an oath. We do all these things. I think all three of us, frankly, and I say this on behalf of what I am committed to, and I know this to be true for the two of you, is we are very much committed to those ideals today, as always.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
What strikes me, though, is that if you've taken a detour, if you've strayed from the path, and it's not about first do no harm, or it's against the basic pillars of medicine, what we've been taught, that there's no corrective action or there's no consequence, aside from maybe being in disrepute with your clinical peers. You don't really face any corrective action.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
There's no accountability, like they say in the legal profession, that if you do certain things that are against the tenets of your profession, you might get disbarred. And I'm wondering, real quick, I know this might not be a hopeful end here, but I do think we need to be a little prescriptive.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Do you think we're just not, we don't have an accountability mechanism in place and that's what's missing? Is that to keep people in line? Dr. Hotez, starting with you and then maybe Dr. Saini, I'll give you last word.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Sapna Singh of Texas Children's and Dean of the National Tropical Medicine School at the Baylor College of Medicine, Dr. Peter Hotez. I am so grateful. You two are leading lights across healthcare, not just pediatrics. But thank you for your comments on the field.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
on artificial intelligence, on the state of the measles epidemic, on accountability in our profession, what gives you hope. I wanted to end on what gives you hope, but then there's just too much, and I wanted to get your last thoughts on accountability. So thank you for joining us. You've made us all smarter. I'm in debt to the two of you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Thank you. Well, thank you, listeners. And on to the next one. But thank you so much. Have a great day.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Dr. Califf was our Episode 2 former FDA Commissioner. We had the WHO lead on pandemic preparedness for Episode 4. Meena Stacey-Oshami, the Secretary of Health from Maryland in Episode 5. I'm Chiquita Brooks-Lashore, head of CMS, Episode 6. You get the picture.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Dr. Arches, you do such a great job distilling out the macro. It's not just the macro trends, but distilling what's happening and how it pertains to West Texas. I'm wondering, Dr. Singh, how much of what those trends are mapping to what you're seeing within the inpatient wards at Texas Children's Hospital?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
You know, Dr. Hodes, in hearing that and what's happening in just the broader catchment of tested children, it strikes me that when I hear the current health secretary sort of explain away what's happening and sort of passing the buck a bit, you know, he says, well, if there's a measles case now, it's getting a headline, whereas 40 years ago, there was tens of thousands of cases, none of it wasn't getting nearly the same attention.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
These are the nation's best healthcare leaders coming in and speaking on topics that really matter to all of us, matter to you, especially as it pertains to the news cycle. Episode 8 is not going to disappoint. I have two of the nation's leaders in all things pediatrics, infectious disease, with us to talk about the state of the measles epidemic, especially in Texas.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
What are your thoughts on that deflection and how much of this is the convergence with him now at the top and what Dr. Singh is noting is happening in their outpatient clinics? Is this just business as usual? Could you clarify that for our listeners?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
We have Dr. Peter Hotez, who I know is known to many of you. dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at the Baylor College of Medicine, and Dr. Sapna Singh, who's the chief medical officer of Texas Children's. I'm going to bring them in right now, and I really appreciate them both being here. I know they're very, very busy. Dr. Hota, Dr. Singh, welcome.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
You know, Dr. Singh, when I hear Dr. Hotez kind of just full gamut talking about all these challenges, measles just being the first indicator sign or sort of public health playbook when it comes to vaccines potentially collapsing. I am wondering, it always feels like the response is, well, have a conversation with your medical provider or talk to your pediatrician. My wife's a pediatrician.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
We talk about this too. What are the forces that... That's how you became such a nice guy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
She definitely reigns me in. But I will say that It always feels like the corrective action is, okay, we'll ignore what you see on social media or on TV and talk to the most trusted medical voice in your life, which for a lot of people is their medical provider. Is that working?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 7: Misinformation, MAHA, Measles, and the Future of Medicine (with Drs. Peter Hotez and Sapna Singh)
Have you noticed that you're able to parry some of these macro trends on these one-on-one conversations or is that not working anymore?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Hi, everybody. Welcome to Episode 5 of Midas Health. I'm delighted to have one of the nation's biggest healthcare leaders join us for Episode 5. The purpose of this is to help inform. We're not trying to be red meat political. We're just trying to inform on issues that matter.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
I mean, everything you say is rational. I think it makes sense. There isn't a hint of partisanship in everything you say. It's very patient-centric. It makes sense. That's your background. You have an incredible background and set of experiences.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Do you feel like you're able to have that conversation and influence and be able to have an iterative back and forth with your colleagues at the federal level right now? Because I'll say...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
For those of us watching what's happening who are not in a position and an appointed position at the state or federal level, it feels like there must be silos or that there's sort of this is how we're going to do things. Funds are going to be dramatically reduced. And then the worry is that people will be ultimately impacted.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
I'm wondering, do you feel or are you worried about your ability to persuade and to frankly still protect and allow for Maryland citizens to have what they're used to having? I'm curious your feelings on both influence, having the ability to have a conversation and what the next four years look like.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Mina, I thank you for bringing in that program. You've always been entrepreneurial, and I'm very happy to hear that. Give us a few other of your top priorities, at least as you're scoping out your roadmap and the initial parts of your tenure. What are maybe two other things that you're really focused on for the next few years?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Listening to your comments on behavioral health as a priority, how much of that, I'd say across the country, I'm sure your colleagues in the other 49 states would say that's a big priority as well. I am wondering here in Washington State, we always talk about access, and I'm wondering how you're thinking about access. Is it more human capital to behavioral health support?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Is it training up more mental health providers? Wondering how you're thinking about cracking that challenge.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
We know that we're reaching millions through this platform, and we want to respect your time, which is why we brought you some of the nation's best, because we know the best are not currently at the highest levels of government. Episode two, we had former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
That's fantastic. Thank you. Thank you for enumerating that. I think that specificity is really helpful for all of us just to understand what we can, where there are gaps, what we can do, particularly what the country can learn from the great work of Maryland's annual leadership. Because I think Maryland's often led when it comes to state-based health reform.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
So the years and you're doing so across a range of dimensions. You know, before we wrap, I want to be respectful of your time and the time of our listeners. I feel like we should address a big elephant in the room, which is health information. I spend a lot of my time focused on public health communications and information. And I'll say from my personal vantage,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
it has become challenging to just reflexively respond to the next headline that is surprising to see, whether it's how we're hearing the measles vaccine be talked about, how we're thinking about vaccine approvals, whatever it might be, sort of solid truths and foundations being challenged. And I think it's always good to be revisiting prior assumptions, and that's not a bad thing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
But I wonder for you as a big-time leader for our country, leading a premier state department of health, how you're thinking about your remit and your scope and how to inject your voice into what I think is information chaos when it comes to healthcare especially. I'm wondering your point of view on that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
That's awesome. That is an incredible background and just a huge fan of your career impact, your arc as a fellow physician, just physician leaders doing what you're doing at the skill that you're doing. Society really needs that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Love that. Dr. Meena Seshamani. I always mix up the pronunciation of your last name. I don't think I did it at the end. Thanks, Department of Health, the leader of the Maryland Department of Health. We are privileged to have you. Thank you for your time.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Before we dive into your current scope and how you're addressing and really responding to some of the changes at the federal level and what Maryland specifically is doing, because I want to spend the bulk of our time just giving listeners a sense of how states are responding and being proactive, just like Maryland is.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Can you talk a little bit about the Medicare price negotiation work that you did and the impact that that's having for Americans? Because I sometimes feel like this gets lost on people, just the impact of that and how transformative it was, it is, and how it was decades in the making.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Just last week, we had one of the senior leaders at the WHO, and I'm excited to welcome a friend and what I think is going to be, who I think is going to be one of our nation's future Secretaries of Health and Human Services, Maryland's current State Secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Meena Seshamani. Meena, thank you for being here. I was just so delighted to see you in this new role.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
I think you solved for something, again, that I feel like was decades in the making, obviously since 2003. I also think it's something that we tend not to talk about to the public a lot. I think public awareness of the impact of this sometimes gets lost. For example, if you're on Eliquis, if you're on a diabetes medication like Genuvia,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Rivaroxaban, another type of blood thinner, you mentioned them. These are some of the most commonly prescribed drugs that you guys negotiated down the price. And so people, some of those commonly utilized drugs, if you're a Medicare beneficiary, You're paying less or you're going to be paying less as a direct result of works that I think sometimes I'm sure, you know, I get the question a lot.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Why does this work? Why did that work even have to be done in the first place? You would think that this is just something that would have been negotiated up front, but... Can you give a sense of why the complications of our health policy at the highest levels, why did this even have to be done in the first place? You would think that this is something that would have been baked in back in 2003.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
Well, so Meena, you know, there's a lot going on. And first and foremost, I'd like you to introduce yourself to this audience that reaches millions. And I just want to give you the floor to tell us a little bit about your career journey and how you ended up as Maryland's Secretary of Health.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
So well said. So well said. Are you worried about the future of what happens with this program in terms of, you know, I know that there was the initial tranche, then there's the next tranche, and then so on and so forth. And this was not just the tenon, and then we're done. I'm wondering what you think is the future of future Medicare direct negotiation on pricing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
It seems to me that you would have to try really hard to give a good, compelling, apolitical reason not to continue this. I can't think of one as a clinician. I'm not the health economist that you are, but just thinking from the patient point of view, why you wouldn't want to pay less for the most commonly used drugs amongst a huge Medicare population or set of beneficiaries.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
I don't know what the reason would be to say no to that. And so I'm with you, and I hope they really mean what they say. I want to move on to your great work at Maryland. Congratulations on the transition. Everything's happening pretty fast. Mina, I think everybody that's listening to this sees a series of news headlines coming from the federal government that... induces anxiety.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 5: One of the Nation's Biggest Future Healthcare Leaders Speaks!
And I talked to people across both sides of the political aisle. I think no one's spared from feeling anxious. And a lot of changes are happening at HHS, how they're communicating on critical health information, just human capital seems like it's being cut. I'm wondering how you as the head of a major state department of health are coping with this and how you're adapting.