Dr. Simone Gold
Appearances
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yes, 100%. First of all, I didn't even understand the difference between physician and scientist. But I'm validating that American medical schools do not teach critical reasoning skills and they do not teach us how to analyze science, for sure. That is...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
The diagnosis is all of it. And I'll just digress a little bit here just because I share with you some of my training. So I had a very unusual circumstance because I went to my internship, which was my first year of residency. Then I went to law school. Then I went back to residency training. In that three or four years, something had changed in American medical training. What years were these?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
This was around 1990. Yeah, okay. So what happened was, perhaps you've heard of the Libby Zion scandal. What had happened in America was a young girl had gone to the emergency department and she was very sick and she was sitting in this emergency department. She ends up dying. Turned out her father, I think was a reporter for the New York Times, very well connected person.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And he decided that this happened because the medical residents were so tired and sleep deprived and overworked. So in the years that I was away, in the years that I was away, but I'm going to blow your mind a little bit, because in the years I was away, they changed how resident physicians were trained. Up until that moment, so in my internship, in my first year, we routinely did 36-hour shifts.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It started 7 or 8 in the morning, you go to 7 or 8 the next night, you crash, you go to sleep, and then you have a couple more days of like 8 to 6 or 8 to 7, and then you come back every third or fourth day to do that. There's no question that it's brutal.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
But I'm going to show you a different side of it. Yeah, yeah. So, because on the surface, and to policymakers, that sounds brutal, that sounds terrible, that sounds like it contributed to Libby Zion's death or caused her death, right? That's how it sounds to all the politicians. Okay, whoa, I did that my first year, very hard. went to law school, went back to residency, and the rules had changed.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
The rules had now said, no, no, residents have to get enough sleep. So the work schedule became on every fourth day, the first day was like eight to six, the next day was maybe eight to 10 p.m., then the third night, basically you worked during the day and you had a night float. So you could work eight or 10 hours, then a night float would come in.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
This is maybe how nurses worked, which is you have a shift work, graveyard shift maybe, and then cross over, but you didn't have responsibility throughout the whole cycle. So doctors became shift workers. Now, this was a terrible decision if you want the doctor to understand disease from the bedside. If we're not scientists, right? We can't analyze the data, read the data, really understand it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Then our best hope of helping patients is to really understand the disease from the bedside, right? To be with that patient for 36 hours. What happened when I went back to my residency with the change in work hours was, resident physicians, young physicians were no longer following a disease kind of from beginning to end for the progression. They were checking in 8 a.m., checking out at 6 p.m.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
The crisis would happen at 10 p.m. or midnight on the night float. The night float didn't care about the patient, didn't really know about the patient. You come back in again that next day, it became very sluggish. You didn't see the disease progression from beginning to end. A person would come in with congestive heart failure and there was never a situation anymore where you followed the disease
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
to see its whole natural course.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It wouldn't be necessary, but for physicians, you want... It's not as much of a crisis. When you are seeing a mid-career physician who's 50 years old, you want them to have gone through that full cycle of seeing the disease at some point in their career. The only way you can have that is if you're really in for uninterrupted.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
When they switched it to shift work, I saw firsthand the shift in how doctors interact with patients, treated patients. No longer did you feel such ownership over the patient. This was your patient. It was like kind of your patient for eight or 10 hours. Then it was somebody else's patient for eight or 10 hours. Then it was your patient again.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And you didn't follow the disease the whole time. So in my first year... Did that increase finger-pointing? I think, yes, but it was deeper than that. Nobody was really in charge, quite frankly. It was just a checkbox or template that was in charge. Before that, if my patient crashed in the middle of the night, I was there and I knew it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And so I became a better doctor through those exact experiences. That was gone once the work hours changed. And I don't think policymakers had any idea that there would be a downside. It sounds all positive to protect the work hours.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I just wanted to share that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
My internship was one year. I was rotating internal medicine, all the disease of the internal organs, and then I did three years of emergency medicine. In between, I did law school. I just kept myself very focused on the law in those three years. I moonlighted as a doctor to support myself, so I was working as a doctor. This is during law school? During law school, yeah. 20 hours a week.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yeah. While you were in law school? Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I did very well. I only became a quack much later.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Right, so I think looking back at my life, I looked at the two and I didn't have a clear path in my mind as to what a doctor, lawyer would do or could do other than politics. I didn't have a clear path.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yes. So I did two short stints in Washington. One time I worked for the Surgeon General, and one time I worked for the Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee. When did you do that? One was around 1990, another was around 1993 or 94.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
First was at the end of medical school. I worked for the Surgeon General.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
When I went back to medicine, I missed the opportunity to make a change in health policy. So I went to work for the Labor and Human Resources Committee, which kind of oversaw Medicare and things like that. and that was in the middle of my training as an emergency physician. I know this is hard to follow because this is a very unique path.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Nobody really does this sort of thing where they zigzag back and forth.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
You were intervening on all three of those. I kept looking for this, but when I went back to work for the Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee in Washington, D.C., I was working for Senator Jeffords, who's an independent from Vermont, and I really think the system was too dirty to fix the health care system. That was my conclusion. How long did you work for him? Also, just three months.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
These were just three months. And that was, put that in your academic career? That was during my emergency medicine training. After law school? After law school.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I said dirty, not complex, dirty. Okay, those are different. My... Before I worked for Senator Jeffords, I thought politicians didn't get it right because they didn't understand, they didn't know. And as soon as a smart person who's on the inside can advise them, they would be able to fix it. You know, it was very idealistic.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I thought, oh great, I will, you know, I'm a bedside physician. I could help them understand this. No, no, no. They understood the problem and they couldn't get the job done. So I was there and I remember they were talking about Medicare going bankrupt, by the way, same song, different year now. And I remember talking to my senator about that, and the obvious solution was to raise the age.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Because when the Medicare Act was signed into law, it was, I think, 1965, and the average life expectancy, I think, was 67. Fast forward in the 90s, Medicare still kicks in at age 65, but life expectancy, I think, was 76. Well, they never planned to have 11 years of Medicare coverage versus two years of Medicare coverage.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Anyway, when you looked at all the options, you know, overcharging wealthy people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Correct. Times have changed. And also the other options of funding Medicare were worse. They were just, you know, make all rich people pay for it, which, by the way, would never have filled in the gap.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Limit options like you do in Canada.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
But they're scarce, that's a good one. Limit options like much like you did in Canada. Just let people die or help them. But that was not with MAID, right? That's not palatable to Americans. So we heard from all these people Correct. Yet. We heard from all these people about ways to fix it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And everyone, every single advocacy group that was presenting to us was in favor of raising the age from 65 to 67. We had Ralph Nader's group. We had the American Heart Association. We had, I think, the American Medical Association was on board. Everyone. We heard from like 12 company organizations. And over here, we heard from one organization. That was called the AARP.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Persons, I think. I was unfamiliar because I was young, and that was the only organization that spoke against raising the age limit. And I remember walking with my senator, and I said, well, obviously the solution is, of all the solutions, it's to raise the age limit. And he looked at me and said, Ms. Gold, do I know what the most powerful organization and lobbying organization in DC is? AARP.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And my heart kind of sunk because I knew that's the only solution that I could see at that time was just to raise the age limit. And nobody would have it. Nobody would do it. Nobody would talk about it. And I just remember feeling pretty discouraged. That, well, what's the point of my age?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
No, no, no, I don't think so. I think it's just that the AARP was telling the politicians what to do, and so they did it. They weren't even messing with it. And that was a huge life lesson. And I learned for me in my life, I don't need to spend my time doing that. At least practicing medicine is honorable. And so I shifted just back to practicing medicine.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
You can't avoid your destiny. Well, yeah, right. You really can't. If you asked me... You can kick and scream about it. You're going in that direction. I wanted to fix the healthcare system. I mean, that was my childhood dream. Yeah, why? What do you mean childhood? How early? First of all, my dad was a doctor. I was raised to be a doctor.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I always knew I would be a doctor, but the system was so dysfunctional that I think I just always wanted to make it better. There are things that are wonderful. The doctor-patient relationship with a caring doctor and a patient that they know with modern medicine could be beautiful, could be amazing. You have a smart advocate who's on your side. That part's amazing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
actual practice of medicine is terrible. That's why so many good doctors go on free mission trips. They donate their time and their money to practice medicine in third world countries so they can actually do some good. I mean, it's a beautiful thing to be a doctor. That's the truth. But the practice of medicine in America, and probably Canada as well, is, you know, it's not great.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I've always known that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I'll tell you exactly the moment it started changing. I learned this in my health policy law class from Professor Hank Greeley in health law and policy at Stanford. Lyndon Johnson Medicare Act of 1965, the preamble paragraph says, nothing in this Medicare Act should be construed to interfere with the practice of medicine.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That's why they put that preamble there to begin with. Nothing in this should... Everything came from interfering with the doctor-patient relationship. Everything. There's intermediaries. There is no more doctor-patient relationship for most patients. It's a big insurance company right in the middle or a big hospital corporation right in the middle.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
What's happening in your country, we could talk about for days.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It couldn't be worse.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Which is not a great substitution. We write a lot about the maid. It's horrific.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It's horrific.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
yeah yeah well it's going to get worse before it gets better so so i just i think i just always kind of i think my dad was was a brilliant man um he was a holocaust survivor comes to america does extremely well smart amazing guy wanted to be a doctor i was a doctor we were all doctors but we also saw patients in our house that was something my dad did he would do hospitals and nursing homes all day and then we'd have patients
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
hours at night. So I saw the care between a doctor and a patient. So I know what it can be. I know what it can be. And I'm holding on to that and saying, I don't understand how in modern times, why can't we also have that?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
But you have so many... Because it's a relationship, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Basically, a doctor, like another educated consultant, when you pay a lawyer, I'm sure you have a lot of lawyers, they're working for you. They're not working for the government. They're not working for a big corporation. They're working for you to serve your interests. If they're not good enough, you move on, you get a different lawyer, right? Why do we not have that in medicine?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Because the world has told us medicine is too complicated. Medicine needs an intermediary. The patient can't understand medicine. Even Trump during COVID couldn't understand. experts. I am done with that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
A person can make their own medical decisions with the advice of a smart consultant, exactly like they do when they buy a house, when they fill out their tax forms, when they see a lawyer or an accountant. There's nothing magical and so black box that a patient can't understand. I'm an emergency physician.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I could explain any disease to a person, either the two or three minute version or the 15 minute version. 100% of diseases can be explained in three minutes or 15 minutes. Okay.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Unless the trust is everything.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I was very young when I went to medical school. I started medical school at 19. I was at Chicago Medical School, and I graduated when I was 23 and planned to be a physician. And that was my plan. My father was a doctor, and I was raised to believe being a physician was the best thing a person could do with their life. There's a law in Judaism called pikuwa nefesh, which means to save a life.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Well, when I graduated, I actually, there were about three to 5,000 in all of America.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
A residency in emergency medicine.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I moved from New York, and then I moved to California, and I spent the next 20 years working as an emergency physician full-time. Where? Oh, various hospitals.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yeah, I knew California. I had some family personal reasons to be there.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
There has never been any complaints. Lawsuits? Nope. And by the way, to be in a practicing emergency physician and have no malpractice lawsuits, very uncommon.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
especially in emergency medicine, because there is no deep doctor-patient relationship. Patients do not have loyalty towards you.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
20 years. 20 years. And I would say I was very well respected. Many people loved working with me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And it's a challenge as a female physician to have the nurse. There's a whole dynamic going on there. And I know that I was very well-respected and well-loved because when I was attacked, many of them stood up for me. So it's not my fantasy wish. Not only were there no complaints, there's no paper trail against me. You can't find anything negative said about me prior to 2020. It doesn't exist.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And to save a life, pikuwa nefesh was the highest honor a person could do, the best thing you could do with your life. And that's what I thought I would be doing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It's a good start. I remind people of that. I said, just try to find something nasty that someone said about me prior to 2020. It isn't there.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And none of that prior to July 27th, 2020.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'm happy. So I got married. I had two children. I was working as an emergency physician. I'm Jewish. I was exploring Judaism more. It was great. I was living in Beverly Hills. Doing anything with your legal training? I was not. I did a little bit of writing, a little bit of policy writing for some independent people on the side.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I was always very interested, but I was in the years of raising kids and working.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I'm super, obviously, as it turns out, as a human, I'm super interested in fixing systems. I'm super interested in efficiencies. But politics, no. So I never even considered going to politics.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So thank you for the question because everywhere I worked, I was always pulled in to do something to fix how the ER was running. For example, an efficiency that you could have in emergency rooms where I don't know how it is in Canada, but in America, there's long lines. It's very inefficient. And I said, well, we should put a doctor up front, right in triage.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So because at least a third of our patients could go home immediately. Right, right. Right? So it's called PIT, physician in triage. So physician in triage is super efficient. So I was a big proponent of that, for example, and everywhere I worked would pull me in to organize the systems. And that's also when I learned nothing really ever gets done typically. You know, I write up these big plans.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I do tons of volunteer hours. I'm like, this is how you have to do it. I was like that eager beaver, like, this is how you do it. It'll be so much better. It'll be so much more efficient. And then, you know, it would fall flat. There's...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I finished high school at 16 and I did college in three years. It's interesting that paperwork is so onerous these days. I don't even think it's possible to get through school early, at least in America. But back then, if you worked really, really hard and fast, you actually could go fast. It was very uncommon. You took extra courses? I took extra courses.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Living in lies, I might as well be dead. It's worse than death. I'm in my apartment working, scream, banging on the door, FBI, FBI, FBI! Battery ram, 20 guys in tactical gear, huge weapons pointed at me, as close as I am to you. And I remember thinking, oh.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So that is so disappointing about human nature. That took me forever to realize people didn't want to actually fix the problem. I got a tip from a colleague of mine when I was so disappointed that the plans, much like you had, nobody's implementing them, nobody's doing these better plans. And a friend of mine, a colleague said, don't you know why they have hospital committees? Why?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That's to delay things. He goes, I successfully delayed this policy that I didn't want to have happen for two years. And when I could delay it no longer, I quit the committee. That was advice from a colleague. So I was a little bit, well, you know what? I'm not going to, one thing I won't do is waste my time. So I was kind of done.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That was correct.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'm not wasting my time.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And to be fair to myself, when I was the youngest person in America at that time, the day that I graduated, there are other people who have done that. There's, I understand, someone who was 22 at a later point, but it is certainly very unusual.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So that's exactly it. But I want to share with you because it's interesting and became relevant later. I always had a heart for working with minority communities, poor, underserved communities. So really that's what I did all of my career. I was working in just super hardcore. You might have heard of the Boys in the Hood, the movie took place in Inglewood. It's like super hardcore.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Like I was the only white face there. And I liked that kind of work. I gravitated towards that kind of work. So I was working at Sentinella Hospital for a lot of years in the heart of Englewood, California. Happens to be about 15 minutes or so, 20 minutes from LA International Airport. Now UCLA is five to 10 minutes further, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center is five to 10 minutes further.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Those are both world-class research institutions. 2014 rolls around and we get the Ebola scare. And the powers that be decide that my hospital should be the receiving hospital for any potential Ebola patients that somehow flew from West Africa to LAX. So they're landing here now. This is a foreshadow of what came during COVID. This is 2014.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I'm puzzling over this thing, wondering why you would be bringing Ebola patients to this poor inner city hospital that has no resources. I'm saying that you could probably be in central Mexico and it would be about the same. And I was stunned by it. Now my peers, not thinking, thought this was sort of exciting. And I, as an ER doctor, love the excitement of emergencies, but this made no sense.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So we start the Ebola training that we're going through, and they break out these hazmat suits that we were seeing during COVID, the blue, right? And I was like, well, this doesn't stop the Ebola virus. Like, why are we doing this? Like, why are we putting on paper, blue paper, like over our body? And nobody was asking those foundational questions.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I was the highest ranking person at the time there. And so people listened to me. And I said, you know what I'm doing if a potential Ebola patient comes here from LAX? What are you doing, Dr. Gold? Yeah, I'm leaving. And people were so shocked to hear me say that, right? Because I'm compassionate and I'm kind. I said, no, no, no, no, no. It's not even about me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I said, who's being put at risk? My poor inner city black nurse who just shows up for work that day, she's supposed to be exposed to Ebola. I don't even know, I'm the doctor. I can like stand back and just be thinking. She's the one who has to draw blood. She's the one who has to get close to the patient.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And you're saying, because somehow the CDC is failing to capture someone 7,000 miles away, they're on a flight and they're coming to the poor inner city hospital and they're not going to UCLA and they're not going to Cedars-Sinai, that's okay? I said, this is not okay. And I put my foot down and I completely refused. And it was very stunning. This was 2014.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
This was 2014 and people were stunned because I'd never reacted like that before. But let me tell you what the problems were. One, it was irrational what they were trying to teach us. Blue paper, not going to stop the Ebola virus.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Two, don't bring me someone who managed to fly 7,000 miles and somebody in Washington is going to say, but that's okay, we'll just bring him to this poor hospital that has no resources. If she gets stuck with a needle and dies from Ebola two days later, that's no big deal. I had a huge problem with that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And it taught me that whoever's making these decisions either was totally incompetent or completely compromised. How come they weren't going to Cedars-Sinai or UCLA? Why? Did they lobby better? Did they say, we don't want the Ebola? It made no sense. It made no sense whatsoever. I hope I'm being clear. It's just that I couldn't live with it. So I stopped that policy.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yes, I did my internship. I did that in Virginia. I had planned at that time to go to law school. I was super interested in health policy and learning as much as I could, just being as academic as I could. And I moved to Virginia for a year, did my internship, and then I zigzagged, and I went to Stanford Law School.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And fortunately, no potential Ebola patients came. But I was horrified that my nurses were expendable. And that was the only calculation that could have been. I mean, anybody with any resources didn't go to my hospital. You went to Cedars-Sinai or you went to UCLA. Why was the choice made in Washington, D.C., that we'll send them to the poorest, worst, least provided, least equipped hospital?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
hospital in the area.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Well, I was on the ground.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
You know, if a potentially Ebola patient had landed, I would have walked out. It didn't happen. I was a beloved doctor, so I stayed.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'm not even sure people understood what I was saying.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Do you know what I'm saying? Okay, so, okay. I made a very hard time finding doctors in these poor, innocent hospitals. Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I forgot about it until years later.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So all through 2020, as we started hearing about this China virus, which is how it was referred for five months or so, until China threw a hissy fit, I was researching everything. And honestly, I was excited. I'm an ER doctor. I like emergencies. For me, this is exciting stuff.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I read every journal article that came out, and I'm talking about it with my peers, and I was discovering that my peers were completely incurious. I was... shocked. I don't even know. I was devastated. I was devastated. I didn't know that my peers were not curious about diseases and emergencies.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yes, I think up until that point, you know, you would talk to your peers. A person would come with a hip fracture. They come with a pneumonia or an asthma or heart attack. And so you're all doing kind of the same thing, right? Because it's kind of the right thing to do.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And so you just, you know, you maybe ask a question here or there, but it was never outside the box. None of us were outside the box at all. But all of a sudden we had a brand new disease, brand new thing, and nobody knew what to do, right? The whole world doesn't know what to do. But I was reading all the literature, and it was patently obvious that hydroxychloroquine worked.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Now, it wasn't a coincidence. Okay, justify that, Clayton. The reason we knew it worked is because SARS-2 virus, which caused COVID-19, was 78% identical to SARS-1 virus. SARS-1 virus was 15 or 18 years earlier, and chloroquine fixed it. Chloroquine treated it. So very early on, scientists doing research in the labs discovered that hydroxychloroquine also stopped the SARS-2 virus. Not a surprise.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
They're like, oh.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Okay, so COVID-19 was caused by the SARS-2 virus. Everyone kept calling this the novel coronavirus.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I have no idea to this day. Talk about misnomers, which you're an expert at.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
What was novel about it?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It was 78% identical to SARS-1. So there was a SARS-1 18 years earlier. Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So the SARS-1 respiratory virus, also from Asia, Chloroquine was very helpful, and it worked, and there you go. So when SARS-2 came around, scientists in China, scientist Didier Raoul in France, started studying hydroxychloroquine, which, by the way, is a mechanism of action. It's like the same as chloroquine, but safer.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So if you see a chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine study, they're equally good. So they start studying it, and lo and behold, unsurprisingly, completely unsurprisingly, of course it worked against SARS-2, it worked against SARS-1. Not a shock, 78% identical. So I'm reading on this. And this is in 2020? This is in, yes, February of 2020 was when the first...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
studies came out i don't think in january 2020 but this is very very early this is when you would start there wasn't any coronavirus task force committee i think until february or march of 2020 so the studies that show well before the lockdowns before absolutely yes 15 so why are you on this show because i'm interested because i'm an er doctor so for me this was fun don't mean to sound like crazy people well that's how scientists think
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It's like, oh my God, there's an emergency. I'm an emergency doctor. This is coming to me. Let me read about it. I was so curious about the whole thing. Every free minute I was reading about it. I mean, this is, I can't even describe it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
You're like, if you were an emergency, if you left cars and you're a car mechanic and there's a new car that comes out, you'd be so excited to like check it out, right? Okay, I'm an emergency doctor. There's an emergency all across the world. Nobody knows what it is. Let me dive in. I'm getting all excited, prepared, reading. And I know that they're going to be my future patients. Right.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Like it wasn't just my ego satisfaction. It's like, I am going to be on the line. And everybody was panicked, which I don't panic. So I was even more excited. I'm like, let me just be calm and read everything. I read everything. There were studies in China.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'm probably a little bit neurotic.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Why not?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I just think you can figure it out.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That's my basic presumption. Your father had everything to do with that? I mean, I think you grew up as a daughter of a Holocaust survivor. Maybe you're... you put things in perspective. I mean, I wouldn't panic over things most Americans would panic over just because I knew what my father went through.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I did my undergraduate close to home. I grew up in New York. That was City College of New York. I lived at home. That was my parents' preference. I was 16. Right. So... I could drive into the city or take the train into the city. So I was still very protected, I would say. My father was Eastern European, just very protective.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
There have been many, many respiratory viruses and pandemics throughout human history and also even in American history. Like every year. Like all the time. So I was a little... I mean, I'm a human too and living in America, you're pummeled all the time with this. It became that the subject, it was the only subject people were talking about.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I would say I considered the possibility that I was wrong. So I would say for the month of March, I was cautious. Like I would come home from the ER and I would strip my clothes off. and change my clothes outside and I'd wash up before I'd go in. So I thought there's always possibilities. There's something I didn't know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Like maybe this is the only virus in the history of the world to act a certain way. And so I was humble about it. I said, well, maybe there's something. But everything that... people were saying was contradictory to everything. It contradicted Public Health 101. It contradicted how viruses worked. Everything was off.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So in March, when our country, I don't remember exactly when Trump said, we'll do 15 days to stop the spread. It was March, I think, March of 2020. And that's also when March 15th or something is when he spoke out in favor of hydroxychloroquine. And the world turned upside down for me right then. So that's a really critical moment.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Up until the day Trump mentioned... Because he was pilloried for that. Yes, I think it was March 17th he said it. So on March 17th, Donald Trump spoke in favor of hydroxychloroquine. Now, I had been talking to my peers for the previous two months. What do you think about hydroxychloroquine? The response was, ah. And I said, well, aren't you going to use it when you get your first COVID patient?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And people are like, yeah, probably, I guess. I don't know. Like nobody was reading, which I found weird. Okay, all right. March 17th, he gets pilloried for hydroxychloroquine. My next ER shift, oh my gosh, nobody, it was like, oh no, I'm never gonna use that. That's terrible, that's dangerous, terrible stuff. And I looked at my peers, but they're my peers still. I didn't know what was coming.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I was like, huh. Why? Like last week you didn't care. Oh no, it's very bad, very dangerous. I'm like, why is it? And they start saying whatever they heard on the news or on Facebook. That was my lesson number two. Wow, you're just incurious. You're literally like a Facebook. Like why do people pay you as a doctor? Like I didn't get it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I finished that by 19, started medical school, went to Chicago, finished my medical studies. But to practice medicine in America at that time, you had to do an internship. So the MD is when you graduate, but the internship is you get your license. How long was the internship? One year. One year. So after that one year, I zigzagged and I went to law school.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Like you were literally just saying what they said at a press conference. I thought it was weird that they went from not caring about hydroxy, no problem, to saying, oh, verboten.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I hear what you're saying. That is a good point. That ER job where I do most of my work was in a... politically kind of conservative area. It's where Kevin McCarthy is the congressman. So it wasn't like a hatred of Trump in that area, but the world had come down against hydroxychloroquine. And my doctors- And why was that?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Oh, well, we know the answer now. We know the answer now.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Right. First of all, in real time, it was bizarre people coming out against it. It's 70 years approved by the FDA. It's completely denied across the world. It's over the counter. Oh, yeah. So those are the reasons. Well, it turns out in America to release the vaccine on an EUA, an emergency use authorization schedule.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
The prerequisite is that there's no other treatment available.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
By law, you would not be able to release the Pfizer or Moderna shots.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So everything happened to hydroxychloroquine. So starting the middle of March 2020, you were... I mean, it was like poison. You know, people were scared, people were rejected. Specific policies that I know you wouldn't know, CVS, the chain pharmaceuticals were instructing their pharmacists not to prescribe it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Like if a patient came in, the pharmacist would get a red box flashing on their screen to double, triple, quadruple check hydroxychloroquine safety. So pharmacists at the drugstore were being empowered to interfere with the practice of medicine, which in America is illegal. In America, pharmacists is only allowed to dispense and to clarify mistakes or dosage, some kind of error.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So they can clarify. They're specifically by law not allowed to interfere with the doctor's decision. All day long, that's all they did. So if you found yourself a doctor who would prescribe it, the pharmacist blocked it. The hatred on hydroxychloroquine was huge. The World Health Organization was... came out, it was unbelievable. This is when I really learned how bad the science was.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'm sure you're familiar with the Lancet article that was retracted, or maybe not, we have different worlds. Lay it out. So, Lancet is one of the three most famous medical journals in the world, and so if you say you're published in the Lancet, that is just career. JAMA and British Medical Journal? I would say, yeah, I would say those are the exact, or New England Journal of Medicine. Yeah, right.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And then maybe JAMA would be fourth. But it's like number one, number two in the world. You don't get published in JAMA by accident. It's utterly impossible. There's committees. It's very hard. It's very hard.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
The reason was I really wanted to, my vague idea was to fix the healthcare system in America. That's a hard one. I thought a lot of people suggested I should get an MPH. It's very funny. We should return back to that. But it just didn't feel right to me. I said, no, no, let me understand the law. Many of our founding fathers were lawyers. I just wanted to understand it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Years, and you have to be, you're coming from a prestigious university, and there's a team of people. So I just want to be crystal clear, you cannot be published by accident in The Lancet. You have a team of researchers, you have a team of researchers who are approving it, you have an editorial board that's doing it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Totally. You got published in The Lancet, you could then go off and be a professor, associate professor, etc., So this Lancet article comes out saying that hydroxychloroquine was unsafe and ineffective for COVID. And the headlines from this Lancet study went all around the world.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Everybody who was paying attention at the time read that study and all of a sudden it was considered poison and terrible and awful. But independent researchers looked at the study and cried foul. It didn't make sense. The numbers of people they had in the study were in the tens of thousands. I think they said they had 60 or 70,000 people in the study. I'm not certain of the number.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It crossed like five continents, hundreds of hospitals, and everyone's scratching their heads. They're like, how did we not hear about this study? And how did they compile data from all over these geographic locations and different languages and different countries like so rapidly? So the independent physicians who became America's frontline doctors raised their hands, published online.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
They said, this doesn't make sense. And they complained. And so the Lancet got a little embarrassed. The Lancet goes to the authors and they said, show us the data, show us the proof. They could not prove it was authentic. They had no way to prove it. And the Lancet had to publish a retraction. I think it was only about three weeks. So kudos to the independent doctors who called foul.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
The Lancet had to retract it. I've never in my career seen that. where the Lancet retracted. It never happened. Now, do you think that the headlines from its retraction made worldwide news? They did not. Let me tell you what happened from the original Lancet study. The World Health Organization and studies all across the world on hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness in COVID were halted.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
They said, oh, you've got to stop doing them. It's very dangerous, ineffective. It was almost impossible to restart those studies again. It interfered. And the other thing is that the damage was done. The reputational damage to hydroxychloroquine was complete forevermore to this day. People think it's unsafe. And that was what it was. And I witnessed this in real time. I'm watching it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Well, I was the most, just on a personal level, I couldn't believe that my peers, who were more than capable of learning all of this, was no more sophisticated than they were, were not...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
they were not paying any attention and they simply followed the headline du jour that's it oh today when the ee way for hydroxy was authorized oh we can use it today and again i said to my peers what changed today and they'll literally quote facebook or a press conference and so i learned that doctors were not curious and i didn't understand why patients are paying most doctors because you could get this stuff right off of google right off a committee hearing
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And it was very demoralizing. The good part about the internet was I found many, many other independent doctors online.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And we all came together and we said, we've got to like speak up about this. This is just terrible. We didn't know how because we were very censored. Anybody who put anything about hydroxychloroquine, like if you had the word hydroxychloroquine in a tweet, you were taken out. So you'd find creative ways of writing. You'd write initials, like people would get it, but you couldn't do it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So that was what led me to Stanford Law School, which is an incredibly difficult law school to get into. Yeah, right. Very small law school, 147 people. Harvard is about three times the size. So to get into Stanford was amazing. And it was, I would say, the most intellectually interesting years of my life was being at Stanford Law School. So what was your undergraduate degree? What was your major?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It was worse on Facebook than even Twitter. It was everywhere. But we all had like a burning passion to say the truth, the independent doctors. So we found each other. And I would say maybe there was 100 that we found just all over. Just people who just like me could not be silenced, couldn't stand it. And so I said, you know, we've got to speak to the American people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I also know America is the world. And so I just started reaching out to people and I started doing interviews. And started getting my reputation attacked. And then I decided, you know what? I'm going to do something that was just going to put doctors in front of the world.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I said, let's stand in front of the Supreme Court because actually it was supposed to be the Capitol, but there was, it couldn't. So we weren't in front of the Supreme Court. And I said, let me just bring YouTube influencers. That's what I called social media influencers. I said, let's bring some YouTube influencers and doctors. And we're just going to stand there. Who'd you bring?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Who were the YouTube influencers? I randomly called people. Yeah. So, um... The biggest name was actually was Breitbart News, which wasn't an individual. And then I think everybody else was just random influencers who just showed up. You know, these are people who are obsessed.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Right. But, you know, so we're just doing our thing. We doctors were giving education. We spoke for hours on the science, you know, it's 78% identical and hydroxychloroquine is safe and all these things and policy. And then we did that in a room, but then we walked over to the Supreme Court.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I remember the Bright Guard guy videotaping it, looked at his peer and he said, we have 178,000 concurrent viewers. I have no idea what that means. And so I say to him, is that good? Is that bad? Like, I have no, he's like, We've never had anything even 10% of that. I'm like, whoa, that's interesting.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I had no idea. We stand in front of the Supreme Court. I don't know if you ever saw it because it was taken down very quickly. But I said to the world, stop living in fear. There's no reason to live in fear. There's early treatment available if you should want it. Masks don't stop inspiratory viruses. And, you know, this is going to be fine. Like, let's not have lockdowns. We had...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
About 12 doctors up there, Dr. Joseph Latipo, a future surgeon general. We had pediatricians, we had internists, we had orthopedists, a bunch of us, white coats, all that. I had no idea that was going to completely upend my life. We were just speaking truth. And that was July 27th, 2020. And I didn't sleep, again, about 36 hours or 48 hours because the world, my world just was lit on fire.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
After that? Yes, yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I was a completely private citizen. I had perhaps 100 people on Twitter, friends and family. That's it. And one week later, I had 101,000 followers on Twitter in one week. When they talk about overnight, it was literally overnight. Coincidentally, two days after the White Coat Summit, there happened coincidentally to be a big tech hearing in Congress and Zuckerberg was in the hot seat.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And congressman asked Zuckerberg, why did you take down this video of doctors? And he says something like, well, it's dangerous disinformation and looking out for people. And I remember being shocked. Zuckerberg knows my name and is talking about me. It was very surreal. And everybody asked me to be on media and I did a lot of TV shows and And I also got fired from my jobs. Jobs?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I was working two ER jobs. One was in this more conservative area. The other was, which I don't talk about so much, I was working for Native American Hospital. I would go down once a month for once a week, and I would live on the Native site and work with the Native population. And I told you earlier on that that's kind of where my heart is, just to help people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
They were very appreciative people, and they both summarily fired me. And the reason, it was very clear. I got a text message from one, which I still have, which says, they loved me, by the way, loved me. And they said, I appeared in an embarrassing video, so I couldn't work there anymore. That was the exact wording. I appeared in an embarrassing video. Wow.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Um... You know, I don't even recall. It was some kind of pre-med. It was something pre-med. Okay, so it was mostly scientifically oriented? Yes, yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And so on a human level, as a psychologist, I had trained a long time to be, you know, well-paid and have a job that I enjoyed.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I had a good reputation. I started being called a quack everywhere. Everyone called me a quack. I collected 87 pages of media that had attacked me. Huffington Post was the most clever because what they did, they clearly had experience.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
They do. They still have experience. Barely. Right, but they must have experience with defamation lawsuits because what they wrote was a group of people in white jackets, claiming to be doctors.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Right? Like death by like, right? I thought, oh, I can't really sue them because that's true. Oh man, that's so psychopathic. We had ABC, we had CBS, we had CNN, everyone defamed me. Everyone called me quack. The other thing, everyone quoted each other. People didn't even look what I said. It was gone. It was off the internet. You couldn't even find it. Right.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
We know that now.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I don't have proof of that, but Fauci has been asked under oath about my organization. He said, I don't recall, which he said with everything. But later on, there was a lawsuit, Missouri versus Biden, and it came out that the Biden White House was censoring like crazy. But if you remember, this was during the Trump White House, when I was getting massively censored. So media was just defaming me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yes, yes, yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So in that time, but just on a human level, it's a very frightening thing to be fired and also to know that I would not really be employable again as an emergency physician, which is a very high paying profession in America. But if these hospitals weren't going to have me, other hospitals were not. And I will tell you, I was scared.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Now I was always frugal, so I had enough money to live on for a while, but that was my career as an emergency physician. And your reputation. And my reputation. I think in retrospect, I was very, very hurt by the reputational damage. but I was much too busy to focus on it. Everyone told me to bring defamation lawsuits, and I had a choice to make how I'm using my time.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Like, I collected the data because it's evanescent, you know, it disappears.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Very difficult. And they take forever. They take forever. So how am I going to spend my time? So I put it in a pile over here, but I was busy. The whole world was contacting me. So a week later, I had 101,000 people on Twitter And I started getting so much support by the world that I realized, oh, people might want to hear what I have to say. So I just stepped into a new lane, a new role.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I was starting on a path towards emergency medicine, which is what I eventually started finishing. I was captivated, though, by law school. It was just extremely interesting. Medical school and law school are very, very different. This all played into what's happened over the last few years.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
But it was scary, especially in that week. I didn't know how I'd support myself.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
to make the shift. Yes. So when I realized that I was fired, it was scary. I didn't know how I'd support myself, but I was very busy. The whole world descended on me. Everyone in the conservative side wanted to interview me. So I made a decision.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
The irony is I had taken, like a year before, I had taken one of those little tests that show you where you are politically. Quadrants, yeah. I was dead center.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I would say I believe strongly in the Bill of Rights, which nowadays is being maligned as being right-wing. But the Bill of Rights, I believe, is really the center between anarchy and tyranny. And I'm probably slightly towards anarchy than tyranny. And that's where I would put myself, which is I believe in free speech. I believe in the ability to defend yourself. I believe in a minimal government.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So these things are now considered very conservative.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
If you asked me, I might have said libertarian, not really fully understanding, but I voted Democrat much of my career. I would have said I was pro-choice. I would have said, you know, my children had all their shots. I had shots. You know, I thought the government was, you know, irresponsible a lot of the times, doing dumb policies.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Mostly I was just working.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I would so... Am I conservative? I say the things that we now call conservative values were not... solely conservative values in the past. I mean, now in America, being patriotic was considered conservative. Not wanting to kill babies, you know, like in the sixth month of pregnancy, that's considered a hardcore conservative value now.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I would have said I was kind of centrist. Yeah, okay, okay. Maybe a little right of center. Maybe a little bit of center. Okay, okay, okay. I always appreciated Dennis Prager. I liked what he had to say. Um... But I was not particularly political. I voted. Right. Right. Okay, so now you see an opportunity.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
No, no, no. No, I was almost like a crazy person. I was possessed by having to spread the truth. I mean, I was... I was possessed, like I couldn't, I can't stand lies. Lies are what led to my father's reality of the Holocaust.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I stand on truth. So I couldn't believe the doctors were lying, the media was lying, the government was lying.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It was so painful that the journals were lying.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
But medical school was a lot of memorization, a lot of learning material that was presented to you, much like you would a grade school child. Here's this material, memorize it, learn it, ask, in a way, questions. kind of approved questions, but law school was completely different.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And then when you start looking, you're like, oh, a lot of other people do know, like the former New England Journal of Medicine author, Marcia Angele, I think, who wrote a whole book on the journals, Not telling the truth and I start discovering that a lot of people are not telling the truth But in my personal life the book I have to get back to you on that. What's her name?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I think it's Marcia on gel She wrote a book many years ago about how the journals are not telling the truth And she was a former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine. So you'll be able to find it. Yes and I
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
i had made a decision though at that time to spread my message and so i in my mind i said i will speak to any large group that will have me that was a decision okay and about two weeks later somebody called i had many calls i did as many as i could daystar called me i don't know if you know them but they are a christian television network and And I said, am I free that day? Yeah, I am. I'll go.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'll go. And it turns out they would fly me down there and put me up in the hotel. And I was like, wow, that's so nice. I wasn't even used to that. And I show up and I discover it's a very big Christian organization. They would laugh if they heard me say this, but I'm Jewish. I didn't know. I never heard of them. But I made a decision. I'll go to anybody who will have me if I can.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I'm sitting there, and I'm being interviewed by them, and in the middle of it, something clicked, and the stars of Daystar, the Lambs, turned into their camera, and Marcus Lamb said, we want you to donate to Dr. Gold something like, she said something very nice about me, and goes, and we are going to match every dollar that you donate. And I went like this. I mean, you could see on the air.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I was like really stunned. And his wife, who's co-hosting, said, no, no, he doesn't do this for everybody. Like, I had no experience. I was like, huh. And then I went about my life. And I'm doing this, that, and that talk. And about a month later, I got a check for something like $179,000. And I remember thinking...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
First of all, I could exhale, probably people want to hear what I have to say, and probably I'll be able to keep saying it. So I didn't think past that. I knew I could eventually do something in life. Like I wasn't worried about me eventually, but I was worried I couldn't keep talking. And now I realize I could keep talking.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Law school was really training you to think a certain way, a very critical way of thinking, to go back and forth in different people's opinions. We would read Supreme Court opinions a lot. One justice would say this, one justice would say that. So it was very, very different. I think you don't see more doctoral lawyers because they are extremely different types of intellectual abilities.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That is a great question. I couldn't, I found it more difficult to live with lies than anything else. Nothing else mattered. Why? But speaking the truth, I think living in lies sucks your soul, sucks your energy. You're depressed. You can't wake up. You wake up, but you don't really want to get out of bed. There's no reason. There's nothing to do. For me, living in lies, I might as well be dead.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I just can't imagine why you would want to live in a perpetual lie. I can't even think of anything harder. Short-term gain. Well, maybe this will help you as a psychologist. Once a psychologist, always a psychologist. I was never particularly interested in things that were faddish. So, for example, I didn't care about fashion, which is something girls usually care deeply about.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Because I always knew it was just a form of peer pressure, not saying it in even a negative way. I'm just saying I wasn't moved by it. It didn't influence me. So... All of those things that made me different, doctor, lawyer, Holocaust daughter, curious, not susceptible to the whims of fashion. And I also wasn't a person who lived very grandly. Would I be able to get by?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
night and day. People think it's the duration of time for the schooling, why, you know, nobody would be a doctor and a lawyer. That's too much. But in fact, there's a lot of MD PhDs. There's a fair number of MD MBAs, right? There's very few doctor lawyers. And I think it's because you need a kind of intellectual, broad perspective to be comfortable in both. Completely comfortable in both.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I mean, my income was really good. My plans for myself, when this happened, the reason I was working two ER jobs was I was going to work really hard for two years, then I was really going to back off. I was saving a lot of money. It's not like I'm immune to earning money. But all of that went by the wayside if I had to live in a lie. There's just no, it's not even a close call. Right, right, right.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I do, it's probably somewhat of my nature, but the nurture element, you can teach as a parent how dangerous it is to live in lies. I mean, it's true, my background was Jewish, but people think, you know, Hitler just happened and it just, you know, just happened. No, no, no, no, no. There were a lot of lies to support people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yeah, but I remember, one that I remember as a little girl is a lot of scientists were, back in Germany, were measuring Jews' heads and they determined they were different size and different shape than Aryan heads. And I remember saying to my dad, well, that's weird. Like, why didn't the scientists, they couldn't have found that because it's not true. And I remember thinking, that's so odd.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I think I learned that when I was 10 years old. I'm like, well, that's so odd. Why didn't the scientists say anything? Were they just writing false numbers in their papers? What were they doing that allowed them to conclude that the circumference of the head was different amongst Aryans and Jews? And I remember thinking, that's hell. You're right, it is hell. It's not death.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It is hell to live in a world where you can't speak. The First Amendment exists not just so you can hear what I have to say, but humans have a need to speak truth. They have that need inside of them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Right. But a baby growing up until you've... I mean, a North Korean child learns very quickly she can't speak. But if you grow up in relative freedom like we did in Canada and America, you have, I think, an inborn human need to speak and be heard. And all of a sudden, nobody was speaking truth. I know you didn't know hydroxychloroquine was safe. But if somebody said to you, water isn't wet...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
You would say, and that you had to say that. You'd be like, I'm not saying that. I'm like, that's what they said when they said hydroxychloroquine wasn't safe. They were telling me to say water's not wet. How am I supposed to say that? And wake up every day.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Exactly.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And then for me, mine was slightly different in the sense that mine was just like a specific fact that I knew that maybe not everybody knew. But all the doctors knew hydroxychloroquine was safe until media told them otherwise. So let me, this nifty trick they did, they're safe and effective. So if the media and the journals had just said, oh, it's not effective against Americans,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Maybe I would have fallen for it. I don't think so, but maybe. But when they started saying it wasn't safe, when we've had it for 70 years, when there's a government database called FAERS, the FDA Adverse Events Reporting System, which keeps track of all side effects of drugs, and hydroxychloroquine is much safer than Tylenol in that database. They started saying it's not safe.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I knew that this is a big lie, and I just knew that it's soul-crushing. I didn't want to live with a lie.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Okay.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So we formed a formal nonprofit and people started flooding me. I couldn't keep up. I had to start hiring people, but I had not enough money to hire people. I was having tons of volunteers. And then- And this is happening over what span of time? Oh my gosh. Months? I'm telling you instantly. I spoke July 27th. I was fired. August, I spoke at Daystar.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I sometimes joke that I'm bilingual. It's just... One in the same to me. One wasn't easier or better. They were completely different. And I was very comfortable in both.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'm saying by November, I had that foundational check of $170-something thousand dollars. But I didn't really have enough money. I had one person work for me, two people. And I had a bunch of volunteers. And then they started coming out with the shots. And I knew my lane was... kicking and screaming was dragged into my lane, which is my lane was to stop mandates.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I didn't even care so much about the average person who wanted to take medicine or didn't want to take medicine, or even the average person that wanted to take the shots or didn't want to take the shots. I cared about everyone being lied to, so they're making bad decisions, but I really cared about making sure mandates never became the law of the land because mandates would have survived COVID.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Mandates would have become, show me your passport, Jew. 100%, which they kind of did in some nations. Show me your vaccine passport. They did. And I would go to my death stopping a passport, a social credit score system in America, or I will die trying. That was my mission. And I say that because everyone wanted me to provide hydroxychloroquine to the world.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I mean, we got thousands and thousands of emails to my nonprofit asking how they can get the medicine. So for two years, that was the question. So at that moment around December or November 21, I had to decide, would I go and find a way to give medicines to people, because I only have 24 hours in a day, or would I work to prevent mandates from becoming the law?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And it wasn't even a question for me. This was my lane. It wasn't the medicine and the science, whatever, how bad this was, this was temporary. This was permanent. Are we losing our constitutional freedoms? So I went down this road and starting in 20, sorry, 21, I started bringing lawsuits against everybody. Against mandates. And that was my mission. Explain that. Yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So we, you know, they started bringing out the shots for kids. Yeah. And we sued to stop that. Sued who? That specific lawsuit was probably the CDC. I brought so many, it's hard to recall. That was our very first one in May of 21.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
There's none. I'm still bitter.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'm so glad you mentioned that. So, there's so much to say here. Public Health 101 says you don't inoculate in the middle of a respiratory pandemic. Public Health 101 never held that you inoculate everybody. It was always the high-risk group. And you let it kind of travel through the society. And the lower-risk group, like the kids, kind of spread it. And then grandma, maybe you inoculate grandma.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Like everything was thrown out the window. And so the trust should be lost from the public health because they completely sold out the public health. Right. Well, we don't even know how bad yet. Oh, I think trust in doctors went from 70 or 80 percent to 40 percent. And I think that that's completely appropriate. So in May of 21, they start saying that they want to bring the shots out to the kids.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Now, this is horrific. Why? Because kids were not dying from SARS.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Jesus. Right. The average of four comorbidities and it was like 77 age of death. Longevity was like 76. It was criminal and it was very criminal to do it to the kids.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Why are they doing it to the kids? So there's a whole financial motive, which is if you put it on the vaccine schedule, there's a lot of money involved, et cetera. But we fought that very hard. And I'm pretty proud because we brought that lawsuit in May of 21, and we had been told that they were probably going to release it right around May or June. So we worked really hard to get it out.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And in fact, they didn't release the kids, the shots to the kids until a few months later. So I know we delayed it by a few months. Nonetheless, the moment they rolled it out, you asked why they did it. As soon as the shots were legally able to be given to kids, you then in America saw local jurisdictions that took the power from the parents and gave it to the kids.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So if a kid wanted to get a shot, but the parents were awake and didn't want to have the shot, the kid was able to get the shot themselves. I think the age was 14 in certain local jurisdictions. that became very clear that this was Marxism, which is to take away the parental rights and give them to the state. The state was subbing in for the parents. Now, that's never happened in America before.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
In America, you know, the parent has a shine.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Well, fascism, maybe not... I think of Marxism-Fascism as the same. I would say that I was influenced a little bit by my father growing up in a communist nation. So in Russia, a child who went to school, they're 13 years old, might come home from school one day and tell their mom, oh, the dentist pulled two teeth today. Mm-hmm. In other words, the parent wasn't involved in the decision.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Well, it's obvious. You asked me how I thought because it only took two weeks. So in other words, the CDC said you could give it to 14-year-old kids. And then two weeks later, San Francisco and I think Baltimore, but there was a few jurisdictions that allowed 14-year-olds to do it. And I was like, well, isn't that nifty? Parents are expendable now.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That's why I said it's Marxist, because you're separating your parents from each other.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yeah. So I felt that, and then I kept... Even though we couldn't stop the shots, I was very... heck hell-bent on stopping mandates. So we sued the Department of Defense. We sued UCLA. We sued on behalf of the COVID-recovered soldier, the COVID-recovered college kid. They were saying ludicrous things like natural immunity didn't work. Yeah, right. So we had these really robust arguments.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That's when I learned that judges were really just also quite incurious. And judges... We're very afraid, I think, to even look at what we were writing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
But from a status quo perspective, a judge's natural tendency is to keep the status quo.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Depends on how progressive they are. Or in medicine, it's to be risk averse. Most doctors were telling pregnant women, don't take a bite of sushi, don't have a smoke, don't drink a glass of wine. But all of a sudden, roll up your sleeves and take the new stuff. I'd never seen that in my career. You didn't have doctors saying that. It was bizarre.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I thought it was like, you know, invasion of the body snatchers. It made no sense. It was completely the opposite of how doctors usually acted. And then when we went to judges and we said, judges, look at these, we've got these world-class experts saying, whoa, halt. They were just not doing the job, in my opinion.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
and said they couldn't decide, they couldn't figure it out, so they deferred to the executive branch agencies. This is all relevant to being a doctrinal lawyer because last summer, the Supreme Court has pulled away from the executive branch agency deferrals the judges acquiesced to. There was a very important case called In Lope or Bright where the Supreme Court reversed 40 or 50 years
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
of judges just deferring to the executive branch agencies. It wasn't the NIH or the CDC, but other executive branch agencies. Judges had been given permission in their mind, oh, you know, the executive branch agency, unelected bureaucrat, said to do this, I'm just going to do that. Well, that's what we were coming up against in COVID. We were asking the judges, in retrospect,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Here's these world-class, amazing physicians saying, whoa, halt. But over here is the NIH and the CDC saying, give it. And the judges were just deferring to the agencies.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Okay, but we have some hope in America because a few months ago in June of 24, in Low Per Bright Enterprises, the Supreme Court held that judges were giving too much deference to executive branch agencies, and that's unconstitutional, and they have to adjudicate fairly. They can't just say the unelected bureaucrats. They can't pass the buck. Correct. They can't pass the buck.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It's a very important legal decision. Okay, okay. Does that make sense? Do you think that will have an effect? I think it will change the landscape slowly going forward.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I didn't understand that so much legally when I was bringing the lawsuits in 21 and 22, that part of the reason judges were so reluctant to believe independent physicians is that the judges had been trained, lulled into thinking their job was to just... Go with what the executive branch agency said. That was ripped up this summer. Well, that'd be convenient if it was possible. Exactly.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That's not our system. The judges are supposed to be independent. So that actually, it was called the Chevron Doctrine and it was thrown out. And thank God it's been 50 years and it's been thrown out. So going forward, bringing lawsuits, the judges can no longer hide behind the FDA said this, or for example, the EPA said that. Oh, yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Environmental Protection Agency. Any agency. The judge has to adjudicate looking at the evidence. I see. Not just give... Well, that's well-timed for the new administration. Undue deference. He said they were giving undue deference.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yeah. Okay. In the middle of all these lawsuits, I have this burning passion for two to three years just to keep speaking publicly. And one of those days of speaking publicly happened to be January 6th in Washington, D.C. My perspective was it was another speaking engagement. I spoke January 5th in Washington, D.C. I spoke January 3rd in Florida, January 10th in Florida.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
But the 5th and 6th, I was scheduled in Washington, D.C. Where were you supposed to speak? January 5th, no problem, Freedom Plaza. January 6th, scheduled to speak on the east side of the Capitol with a permit. There you go. With the permit. People don't know that. So I was there to speak. When I... Who were you speaking with or to? I don't know who organized it. I had a team at that point.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And there were about 20 speakers, including incoming Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene and Paul Gosar. another representative. There was a pretty high-profile speaking opportunity. People were, of course, speaking about their concerns that the election was stolen. But my lane was to speak about medical freedom.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I had a prepared medical freedom speech that I did the day before, no problem, Freedom Plaza. And I was intending to do the same thing on January 6th. The east side of the Capitol building, it's called Section 8, and I had a permit. And when we, speakers, presented ourselves at the location, we were told by whoever was there that we couldn't speak.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
There was a stage set up, but they weren't allowing anybody to speak. Everyone asks me why. I don't know. Still don't know. I think because the crowds were so large. I don't know. If you have a large crowd, it seems to me you ought to let people speak. So there's a positive energy source for the crowd to pay attention to. But for whatever reason, they would not let the speakers speak.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I was there. on the Capitol, basically ready to give a speech. So I said, well, I'm speaking. And so I scampered up to the top of the steps and I started speaking, but I have zero microphones or anything. And of course, within a minute or two, I stopped because no one can hear me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
There's a lot of people and I'm standing at the top of the Capitol steps and people are pouring in by the second because Trump had finished speaking and everyone was walking over. And I'm telling you, every minute had another thousand people showing up there. Um, cause that was the time Trump had stopped. And so I'm just standing there and I'm kind of smushed against the wall.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And all of a sudden the doors open from the inside and I was swept into the building. This is all on video. I can't imagine what they would say about me if there was no video, because you can actually see on the video that I kind of tumble and I almost fall into the building because there's a surge behind me and I find myself in the Capitol. And, um,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It's hard to remember what life was like before J6, but we have a long history in our nation of political protests. Now, when conservatives landed in the Capitol, standing there, everywhere I was was very peaceful, completely peaceful. I find myself in the rotunda, it's beautiful, and I'm walking,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I'm walking between the ropes and I'm looking up here because it turns out there was video everywhere. I didn't know. And you can see me walking peacefully in between the ropes, looking around and I've got my speech in my hand. And I think to myself, it is a fine idea that I should give my speech because this is a political day and let's give a speech. And there's a lot of people here.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I give my speech and that is also seen on video. And it's kind of funny when I'm thinking back on it, but that was my mission. And then a little bit later, I give my speech again. And then an officer taps me on my shoulder and says, I have to move along. And I'm startled. I look at him and then I move along. And then I exit the building.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And that was my sojourn into the Capitol on January 6th, 2021. And I had no idea what was being said about the day as an eyewitness on the east side of the Capitol, no violence, kumbaya, literally grandmas singing kumbaya, moms with strollers. And that's what it was. It was very large. It seemed more like the energy of a sporting event or a concert, large. And that was it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And then we leave and we got dinner and I didn't have any news on it. Did you think anything of it after that? No. So I didn't. And I was in D.C. another day. And I'm always working. And I'm just typing away. And people are saying it's something. And I'm like, no, no, it was nothing. And I'm just typing. And I meet friends that night for dinner.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And the friends are very, very, very alarmed when I said we were at the Capitol. And they said, oh, my God, it was an insurrection. It was an insurrection. And I start laughing. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I just thought, I was like, no, I was there. No, what are you talking about? And they were very, very worried for me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I'm sitting at dinner and I get a phone, a message on my phone. And there's a picture of me on the FBI's most wanted list. with my picture. Oh, oh, that's a problem. And I look at it. Wow. And my first reaction was, well, this was Photoshopped. This is like a joke.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I mean, I just, I still can't believe it. Yeah, yeah, I can appreciate that. I'm on the FBI's most wanted list. Right, wow. And so they have a picture of me. Somebody handed me a megaphone and I was giving my speech. And that was the picture of me on the FBI's most wanted list. And I was like, no. And I just couldn't believe it. And then the next day, I started getting a little bit worried.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
But I went off four days later, and I gave another speech in Florida. And I went back years later, and I watched that speech. And I never even mentioned January 6th, just to give you perspective that I didn't think. And then 12 days later, I'm in my apartment working. And the most horrific, loudest, I can't do it justice, scream banging on the door. Ah!
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So loud that I immediately thought, well, I can't possibly be the FBI because this must be a Columbia cartel coming to murder me. Of course, this couldn't be the FBI. I remember thinking, couldn't possibly be the FBI. they would have called me. And they're screaming, and I'm looking, and I'm looking at the person I'm working with, I'm like, is that real? And he says, no, no, that's not real.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I mean, we just couldn't process it. About 30, 40 seconds go by, and I stand up, and I turn to kind of come, and they break the door down with a battering ram.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yep, two-bedroom apartment and battery ram, 20 guys in tactical gear, bulletproof vests and tactical gear, huge weapons pointed at me, the laser sight beams as close as I am to you. And I'm looking, I'm like, that's weird. And you asked me if I panic. And I remember thinking, oh, okay. And I got really calm.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And as soon as I realized that, oh, before that, he had said to me, turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around, like screaming. And I was disoriented. And I took a step forward.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I thought later, oh, he definitely could have been justifiable homicide. Right. And then I saw the sight beams. I'm like, oh. And I got really calm. And I was fine. And I put this. And they are coming to arrest me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Oh, and you know what else kicked in there by the ER? So they're taking us off in handcuffs and shackles. It was crazy. And I said, I was very calm. I said, hey, you took my phone, you took computers, you took everything. Could I take some cash with me? Because at some point you're going to release me and I'm going to need a way home.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Nope, can't do that. I'm like, okay. I say that not incidentally. So they whisk us off. We go to jail. Perp walk in front of the neighbors. Oh, yeah. Shackles.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yeah, the theater is, I think the whole thing was to intimidate and scare me and others. Did it work? You know, it backfires is what it does. Oh, at the time, yes, but now I don't think there's anything I'm afraid of now. I mean, if you had said to me beforehand, would you be afraid of being in prison? Would you be afraid of being in isolation? What is worse? What is worse than that?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And now I'm like, I don't like it. It's unpleasant, but okay. Like, you can't scare me with it. Like, you could probably still scare you with that. You can't scare me with that. Like... It's terrible, granted, but okay. So, no, it totally backfires on people like me. I mean, it's literally, it's a foolish move if you're trying to silence people like me. It just backfires.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Now, they don't know ahead of time who's strong and who's not strong, but handcuffed, shackled, walking, right, good in front of the neighbors, doors, you know, broken. I happen to have had a gun in the house. They asked me where it was. I told them where it was. We get taken off, et cetera, all this stuff. I mentioned just two small things because they're trying to be as dehumanizing as possible.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
One is when they release me, I go from being like this hardened criminal to being released in a matter of one minute, basically. The judge is like, you can be released, and then they have shackles off, and they literally kick me out on the street, downtown Los Angeles, I have no shoes because they didn't let me take shoes. And I said, how am I going to get home?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And the officer says, you should have thought of that. And I just got so snippy. I said, you know, I am an ER doctor. I know exactly what it's like to show up somewhere unprepared. And I wasn't going to. And I wanted to bring money. You didn't let me. How am I going to get home? I had no phone. It was insane.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Right, so I'm so glad to be able to sit here and explain this to you. They could not be more different. Medical school is a lot of work. It would be 12-hour days, 15-hour days, including classes. And you were presented with material by a teacher. You scribbled notes as fast as you could or you typed them. And you would memorize them, you'd learn them, you'd regurgitate them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I'm just sharing that it's done to break you. And the other thing that they did that was very effective, they took all of our computers and phones. And so my piece of advice for anyone listening is have backups and not to worry too much about what you're writing, assuming you're doing lawful activities, just have lots of backups everywhere.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So this is very funny. You will enjoy this story. So there's no right to speedy trial, even though that's in our constitution. They delay, delay, delayed until the government was ready to go, and then my judge couldn't have been faster. So I found out I had been charged. And where were you tried? All J6 defendants were being tried in the District of Columbia. Oh, yeah. That was intentional.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And none of us are from the District of Columbia. And the District of Columbia voted 96% for Biden. And this was a political issue. And it's a company town. The largest employer, I think 30% of people, 20 or 30% of people that live in D.C. work for the federal government. So by definition, it's a company town. Plus, it's a political trial. Yeah. So not moving was really unfair to J6 defendants.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I had every intention of fighting and pleading not guilty until I saw the charges. So the charges included a bizarre 1512c2 felony that's a 20-year felony. It's bizarre. It's an accounting kind of firm. Remember the Enron scandal? The theory was that Arthur Anderson, their accounting firm, shredded documents. So to close that loophole is called closing the Arthur Anderson loophole.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Somebody 20 years ago came up with this 1512c2 statute, which is witness tampering and evidence shredding. That is what they charged me and hundreds of J6ers with. You might ask why? Because it's wholly irrelevant, has nothing to do with us. 20 years. That was why. This is how they got J6ers to take the plea.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I'm a lawyer, too, and I'm looking at this and said, what does this 1512 witness tampering and evidence shredding statute have to do with me? I was literally walking through crowds and gave a speech. I understood trespass. I understood parading. Then we could talk about selective prosecution, like why are you prosecuting me and not everybody from the Summer of Love.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Conservatives don't get to protest. That's really the rule. But this was weird. This 20-year felony was weird. It had no relation at all to us. And I couldn't, it was a 20-year penalty. So this is how they got virtually everybody to roll over. They were very, very eager for Jay Sixers to just take a plea. So the narrative is, oh, we all pled guilty. It was just a terrible thing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So when I discovered it was a 20-year felony, I did take the plea. I couldn't afford a felony as a doctor and a lawyer. There was no way I could keep my life. I mean, as a practical matter, I would have lost my licenses. And I had an organization to run. I couldn't be put away for years. It was out of the question. And on a personal level, it's pretty scary.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So for all of those reasons, I accepted the plea. And I plead to a misdemeanor trespass. Now, exactly how many misdemeanors do you find going to prison? Mm-hmm. Low number. That zero number that you like.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
No misdemeanors in America go to prison. So I was expecting when I showed up at trial to... Right, and that would be an expected part of the plea too, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That you, I mean, you have no, you go through the person's past. Does she have a violent past? Has she ever been convicted of anything? You know, is this a gang offense? Is there a violence here? You know, does she have a way to employ herself? You know, there's a lot of risks that go into when you put someone into prison or not. Of course, I didn't think I was going to prison.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
147.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Of course we knew each other. We kind of lightly dated.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And you really were only being led to ask approved questions because you had specific material. It might be like doing a reading comprehension test. You read a paragraph, you ask the questions on that paragraph. So I would say there was no critical thinking. It's certainly no critical thinking in the first two years of medical school. It's not.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Okay?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I thought that if anything, he would have been, uh, Nicer to me, like, certainly we had nothing negative, really, but he should have recused himself.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Because the standard for recusal is not just conflict. It's the appearance of impropriety. It's not the actual impropriety. It's the appearance of impropriety. I mention this little interesting aside because the District of Columbia judges, almost to a man, are so smug that they don't even think they're going to be overruled if you've been to school and dated a defendant.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
They're like, oh, no, that's no problem. And I am sad as a lawyer to know that's the standard. So the appears of impropriety, which of course this is. And I bring it up because when I stood before him, I felt this heat of hatred and anger emanating from him. All the other hearings every month were on Zoom. But for sentencing, I had to show up in person.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And there was so much hatred from him towards me that I will never know if it was personal or personal. or just his beliefs on Jay Sixth. And he should never have been in that situation. That is why judges who have an appearance of impropriety are to recuse themselves. And I just want everyone to be aware cognizant of how the infrastructure of fascism is kind of already there in America.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
No one's checking him. Anyone responsible would have said, you know, get off this case. It's crazy. There's other judges. You didn't. So that exists. Anyway, he sentences me to 60 days, which was insanely harsh. And then the Bureau of Prison puts their thumb on the scale. And instead of sending me to a camp, they send me to a maximum.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So you ask me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It's a. Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I was utterly, utterly shocked. It's one of the few times over the past four years that when I got outside, I started to cry. I couldn't believe it. In my whole life. What was the shock?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
No, you have the greatest questions. Standing in a courtroom, and I heard them say the United States of America versus Simone Melissa Gold. This is my country. I'm an enemy of the country? Like, it was so awful, that moment. But when he sentenced me to prison, it was like I couldn't even process that. Again, I'm a person who's not prone to panic. It was such an overwhelming moment for me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It was such an overwhelming moment.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Yes, I think so. It hasn't changed my actions and it won't, but it is extremely traumatic.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I did not. I don't. I thank God for my upbringing, my personality. No, but I have become more cynical, suspicious.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
To watch the judicial system do wrong. Yeah. And watch the judge not recuse himself. I watched the prosecutors lie. Remember, I read all the evidence as a lawyer. I know the prosecutors lied.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I watched the doctors and the medical industrial complex collapse. I watched the legal system collapse. But in a paradoxical way, I think it energizes me. I think I know that there's a chance in America. I know that we're not living in China and North Korea.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So my advice to anyone going to prison, which could be a lot of people going forward, a lot of people who might know, right, is have a plan. That's the truth. So I said, if I'm in there for 60 days, what's my plan? Okay, I'm going to talk to every woman who will talk to me. I'm going to interview every single woman and get their backstories. And that was how I spent my time.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
First, they put me in isolation for eight days because that's normal. That was terrible.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Right, right. Exactly. into the third year of medical school, we would do hospital rotations and you'd be at the bedside. So you were expected to read up about the disease that the patients had on your service. And you could ask questions about that situation. But the senior physician on rounds would answer those questions.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Isolation, solitary was a six by 10 cell with a sliver of a window and a sliver in the door where they passed you your food.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
No explanation. As it turns out, that was how... I didn't get an explanation until after. That was what they did at this prison for women coming in for COVID. Now, this is July or August of 22. There was no COVID at all. I was in Miami. There was no COVID. So it was a pretext. So they put the women there because they didn't want to staff up and put women...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I guess I understand a prison being slow to get with the policy, but you could have had women in a separate wing if they were incoming women, right? And they're high risk. But that's what they did for the men. For the women, they just shoved us into isolation cells. It was insane. It was ludicrous. And I didn't know how long I'd be there. For all I knew, I'd be there all 60 days.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
It is the single worst thing you can do. Well, there's worse things probably, but it's...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Right. So America's Frontline Doctors was never a COVID organization. We are medical civil liberties. So COVID mandates, you know, we were against the vaccine mandates, et cetera. But we put our eye and our attention and our expertise towards medical civil liberties issues.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
We have almost a million subscribers and we probably have about 2,000 doctors or allied health professionals. It's just a volunteer organization. It's free. It's a charity. It's a nonprofit. And the donations go really towards two things. They go towards us submitting amicus briefs on important medical civil liberties cases.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
You might know the USA versus Scrametti case that just went to the Supreme Court. So physician licensure. Yes, I know that case. The transgender is the big issue these days. And then also the other lane I speak up a lot on, America's Frontline Doctors, is on physician licensure and making sure physicians aren't losing the license for First Amendment speech violations.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So I fight that heavily and I fought the California Medical Board aggressively and I won. And that was an almost three-year battle. We just won at the appellate level. And there's a federal case pending that I expect we will win as well.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
This then becomes precedent for future physicians that hopefully the government won't be able to pull their licenses for speaking words that the government doesn't like.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So they were still, in retrospect, in comparison to law, very circumscribed, very circumscribed. Why this drug? Why this treatment? How long should the treatment be? How's the oxygen level? It was almost mechanical. in comparison to law. It was never outside the box. It was always within the box.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
So, by the way, it's interesting you said that I was hit again. When I got out of prison, I was immediately hit with a board member who lied about me and defamed me and said that I stole money from my organization. So as soon as I was getting out, whack. There's something inside of me that refuses to give in, and I am grateful that we still have a chance.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
If I lived in China or North Korea, I would have folded up shop.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
That is true, but you're even being a smidge generous because it's always changing, even in medicine. It's always changing the direction of new medicines, new treatments, new tests. Right. It's just so different. So, for example,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
You would be learning – if somebody came in with a heart attack or chest pain, you would do X, Y, Z. But next year, there might be a different lab test, and you would just add that lab test to your group of lab tests. You never actually deleted a lab test. You just kept adding and adding and adding. I mention that because our healthcare expenses are out of control. So you would never –
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
think about, well, what's the critical improvement on this test versus that test? Let's just eliminate this test. I came up with that very directly. There was a test when I was growing up, it was called the CK, the CKMB that was elevated in heart attacks. Then the troponin test came out that was much more specific, much more sensitive.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
All the doctors knew hydroxychloroquine was safe until media told them otherwise. I said to the world to stop living in fear. There's no reason to live in fear. I had no idea that was going to completely upend my life. The First Amendment exists not just so you can hear what I have to say, but humans have a need to speak truth.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And I would say to my instructors, why are we not eliminating the CK test? It's not as specific, it's not as sensitive. Nobody knew. We just did them all.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
You multiply false positives. That's a big problem. You multiply the false positives. You chase red herrings all the time. And I think, worse of all, you were not teaching the practitioners... to think and maneuver in new times, right? Because they should be paying attention. Oh, the troponin test, it is more sensitive, it is more specific. I will eliminate this other test.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
We were never taught to think how to maneuver and grow. I would say we would not talk to grow. We were taught to stay here and maybe expand a little bit, more testing. I'm not sure if this all makes sense.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
I think you're exactly right. So first of all, I was quite weak in biostatistics, for example. It was not a strong suit of mine and it never precluded me from becoming an excellent physician. Right, right. So we would always have classes on statistics. Nobody was very good at them. Honestly, it was something we all dreaded. We're not good at it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
We are not at all trained how to recognize good research from bad research.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
Terrible. You know, I vaguely remember, but... I was coming at this from the perspective, some of the headlines at NIH-funded studies were so kind of foolish. I didn't even understand why we were doing these kinds of studies, funding them. But we were not really taught how to finally distinguish good from bad.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
518. Courage in Controversy: Medical Tyranny & Jan 6th Riots | Dr. Simone Gold
And Dr. Joseph Latipo, who I'm sure you know, about a year or two years ago, he tweeted out that one of the problems in medical training is doctors simply don't know how to analyze data critically. I would say 100%. I learned virtually nothing like that in medical school and a little bit in my residency training. And I never, I wouldn't have, I'm not even sure I would deserve a C- in my abilities.