Dr. Rhonda Patrick
👤 PersonPodcast Appearances
Welcome back to the podcast.
Today we're taking a deep dive into sleep, one of the most critical yet often misunderstood pillars of health, cognition, and performance.
Joining me today is Dr. Michael Grandner, a renowned sleep expert and researcher whose work bridges academia and real-world applications in optimizing sleep for peak health and performance.
Dr. Grandner serves as the director of the Sleep and Health Research Program at the University of Arizona, where he's also an associate professor in the departments of psychiatry, medicine, and nutritional sciences.
Beyond academia, Dr. Grandner consults with professional athletes, elite performers, and high-level organizations to implement sleep strategies that directly improve athletic performance, cognitive function, and overall health.
In today's episode, Michael and I cover an extensive range of critical topics, including differentiating clinical insomnia from common sleep disruptions and the subtle yet significant signals used to identify underlying causes like hyperarousal,
circadian misalignment, insufficient sleep drive.
We discuss why cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, CBTI, is the gold standard treatment, its most potent mechanisms, and we also discuss key interventions that yield the greatest improvements in sleep quality.
We discuss practical protocols for addressing common sleep disturbances like stimulus control, strategies for nighttime awakenings, and personalized sleep restriction methods.
We also discuss recognizing and addressing sleep apnea, including non-obvious symptoms, data-driven red flags from wearable devices and effective non-CPAP interventions like oral appliances, positional therapy, breathing training and more.
We discuss advanced evidence-based sleep hygiene practices, including actionable protocols involving temperature modulation, breathable techniques and also precise timing of light exposure.
We also evaluate popular sleep supplements and substances from melatonin dosing and timing of magnesium, lavender, glycine, as well as nuanced impacts of THC, CBD, alcohol, caffeine, and late night eating on sleep architecture.
We also discuss actionable strategies to manage unavoidable disruptions of sleep like shift work and jet lag.
the accuracy and limitations of best practices for interpreting and acting on data from consumer sleep tracking devices like the Oura Ring, Whoop, Apple Watch, Fitbit.
And we talk about practical insights on how sleep consistency and strategic napping directly impact cognitive performance, athletic outcomes, injury prevention, and recovery.
Whether you want to improve cognitive or athletic performance or achieve better cognitive health, by the end of this conversation, you'll have an arsenal of scientifically robust, actionable tools to transform your sleep.
A quick reminder before we jump in, if you enjoy these conversations and want more practical health insights, consider signing up for my free weekly email newsletter.
Each week my team and I share fascinating, actionable health and performance research.
Recent topics have included caffeine's impact on sleep quality, the metabolic effects of delayed eating, creatine's surprising benefits for Alzheimer's disease, and the importance of potassium for blood pressure.
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And now on to my discussion with Dr. Michael Grandner on all things sleep.
I'm pretty excited to be sitting here with Dr. Michael Grandner, who is one of the, I would say, foremost experts in sleep science, behavioral medicine.
And he directs the Sleep and Health Research Program at the University of Arizona.
His research focuses on, I couldn't even tell you everything, it focuses on all things sleep.
But even, I think you're probably, some of your research is some of the first to really kind of throw out this idea as using sleep as a performance enhancer, both athletic performance, cognitive performance.
So I'm super excited to get into that today, as well as a lot of other topics on sleep.
So thank you for coming to the show, Michael.
I as we were talking about earlier, I kind of wanted to start this episode talking about sleep problems.
You know, you've got a lot of patients that come into your your clinic with sleep problems, insomnia being probably one of the most prevalent ones.
When someone comes into your clinic and says, I have insomnia.
What sort of.
data points or clinical features do you kind of look at to distinguish whether or not this person actually has insomnia versus all the other things that could just be causing poor sleep?
And how do you just determine what is the underlying cause of someone's insomnia?
I would imagine hyperaroused nervous system being one of them, but there's probably others.
Can you give an example of that?
So let's say, you know, someone has work-related stress or something, right?
And maybe it's a project-related or maybe there's emotional-related stress from a relationship and it does eventually kind of get better and yet they're still kind of having problems falling asleep.
Now, what would be the conditioned stimulus?
Wow.
You've just explained insomnia to me in a way that no one ever has.
And it's like just clicked.
And I'm like, this is... That's what happens.
What happens.
Right.
And so now I completely understand this concept of stimulus control.
Right.
So...
Let's talk about CBTI, cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia.
And obviously there's lots of components to it.
One of them being the stimulus control, which now is like making so much more sense to me.
But let's talk about what that is, why it does work so well for people.
And, you know, and also, you know, back to this whole like training, this negative association, this negative stimulus, you know, where you're like just the act of getting into bed is making you hyper aroused, is giving you anxiety.
Right.
Is that also true then, let's say you do eventually fall asleep, then you wake up, whatever, you have to repeat, whatever it is, it wakes you up, you're hot, and then all of a sudden you're still in that bed and it's like, again, that negative association, right?
And so it's like every time you wake up.
Okay.
Let's talk about it.
So do you, I was going to ask you a question about what you think the most important mechanism behind why CBTI works is.
Um, let's say you had, you know, someone that has to work on their stimulus control.
Um, you know, there, there's someone that likes to get into bed.
They have trouble falling asleep.
So they pull out their phone, they're scrolling, they're looking at, you know, social media, whatever.
and maybe they're ruminating.
Like what would be your, how would you approach that?
Like what would be like your two week fix?
And what happens if someone wakes up in the middle of the night and then they're ruminating, can't fall asleep?
So to kind of just, from my understanding, for the stimulus control, like the most important part of it, like for these individuals that do have this
like fear of like not sleeping or like it starts to, you know, they just immediately get like anxiety about it.
The best thing is to surrender or is that like the strongest part of the stimulus control?
Okay.
And so the next part of CBTI that you hear about is this sleep restriction, which sounds awful.
And so this idea of not having your phone in bed is part of that.
So how long does it take for most people to train themselves through the stimulus control, sleep restriction, where the bed is really just for... I've heard sleep and sex.
Yeah.
It's probably the phones that are the biggest problem nowadays.
And that comes down to what you were saying earlier, either being in another room or sitting up or standing.
Why are a lot of people that have insomnia, why are they prescribed these sedatives like Ambien?
Is that the key?
Do you really have to find someone that knows what they're doing or can you try this yourself?
What percentage of the U.S.
population has insomnia?
Yeah.
One in 10 is a lot.
And, you know, I definitely think we're going to talk about some of these substances people then turn to because they think it's going to help treat their sleep problem, which they don't necessarily know is even insomnia.
Right.
And so they're, you know, turning to things like alcohol and that doesn't really help.
So but let's before we get to that.
Sleep apnea, you mentioned.
And that's another one that I wanted to talk about.
I've known a lot of people, it seems, that have had sleep apnea.
I wonder how, you can tell me how common that is as well.
But first, I kind of wanted to ask you, what are some of the non-obvious presentations of sleep apnea that you see, especially in people who maybe don't even report feeling sleepy?
So what should a person do?
Like how many, is this an every night thing where people are getting woken up?
Like if they're having apnea, is this like an every night thing?
Like what sort of symptom clusters, biomarkers can people look at short of like going and getting the thing on your finger and measuring the oxygen and, you know, the whole thing?
Do those at home kind of, I remember doing one once like years ago when I was in graduate school and I was, I think I was waking up because of stress, but the test came out negative, but I wore this like ox pulse thing, I think.
I don't know what it was in my finger.
If you're working with someone who has obstructive sleep apnea, how do you go about differentiating if it's caused by allergies or positional or something like nasal congestion?
I don't know.
What happens if someone has untreated sleep apnea?
So, I mean, what happens to their sleep architecture?
I mean, first of all, maybe we should briefly mention like the sleep stages, but like, does it affect their sleep architecture?
Can I, before you get to that, it's so fascinating, particularly the part where you're talking about, you know, all the new information that you're learning every day, you know, you're during that transition between deep and REM, you kind of, your brain is like sorting it out and getting rid of the things that you don't really, aren't really that important to remember.
And then during REM sleep, you're like using what's left and somehow attaching it to like other memories and stuff and concepts.
And sometimes they don't even seem to make sense.
Like you'll,
Yeah.
Well, based on what you just said, I have now a new hypothesis for why we dream.
But I want to ask you, why do you think we dream?
Well, thank you.
Okay.
So back to the sleep apnea because, you know, people having these awakenings where there are multiple wakings in the night, obviously this is happening during different stages.
What, how does sleep apnea, untreated sleep apnea affect sleep, the sleep architecture?
Right.
Yeah.
I wonder if anyone's, or maybe you can tell me if anyone's ever looked at, you know, because you mentioned deep sleep is really important for this, you know, cleaning out the toxic waste.
These are aggregate protein aggregates, amyloid beta 42 being one.
I wonder if anyone's ever looked at like people with
Alzheimer's disease to see if any of them have sleep apnea, like the untreated sleep apnea.
Right, and you're also disrupting your sleep architecture and not getting enough sleep.
So people with untreated sleep apnea then probably do have problems with working memory.
you mean, so it does that not while you're on it, but like, that's it.
Yeah.
Is this why men have a lot more attentional issues?
Right.
Okay, well, let's talk about treating sleep apnea.
I know we can talk about CPAP and what that is, and it certainly works.
Yeah, it's a blunt instrument.
It works.
Long-term adherence, maybe not so great.
What do you find to be some of the best evidence-based non-CPAP interventions?
What about mouth taping?
Yeah, it's gotten overblown.
And it sounds more like maybe for snoring than anything.
Are there any, for people that are experimenting with some of these, perhaps the retainer or the myofunctional training?
We're going to get into sleep wearables soon, but how do they really know it's working?
Yeah, it's tough.
All right.
I kind of wanted to shift gears.
We're going to get into the supplements because that's something everyone wants to know about.
But before that, I kind of wanted to ask you a little bit about, you know, we've, a lot of people have heard about sleep hygiene.
Yeah.
The most important things for sleep hygiene.
Yes.
Rapid fire.
Yes, yes.
Right.
Exactly.
I mean, obviously people need to have sleep, good sleep hygiene too.
Like that's important, but like, like everything you were talking about with CPTI, like that's just one.
Yeah.
The sleep hygiene is just something that already needs to be done.
Yeah.
Right.
But for people that perhaps don't have insomnia, have apnea.
Right.
So I was wondering if you had any tips on some more advanced type of sleep hygiene.
Like we know, we all know dark, cold, quiet.
Rocket science, right?
Yeah, rocket science.
But like, are there any other sort of more advanced sleep hygiene techniques?
Like, oh, maybe your resting heart rate or respiratory rate or something like that.
Like people could.
That's fascinating.
I've noticed that, of course, when I'm traveling and I'm outside all the time.
And then it's like being in my hotel, I don't usually have my dimmers and everything that I usually have.
But it doesn't matter because I am dead tired after being outside.
Right.
A couple of questions, follow-up questions for that.
Do you think the time of morning light matters a lot?
Like you wake up in the morning and like, is it like first thing you go outside and how long should you have to go outside for 30 minutes?
So you're saying you want to use the caffeine for, you know, when you basically more need it, when you're working, maybe adenosine builds up.
That's why I drink decaf coffee at 11 a.m.
and I feel like it's totally working and I'm totally fine with that placebo.
Right.
So it sounds like the morning routine would be wake up, go outside.
Go outside, whether you're taking your puppy or dog out.
I just got a new puppy.
Going for a run.
Yeah.
But go outside for at least 15 minutes.
Yeah.
And then, you know, wait a little bit, then you make your coffee.
Obviously, there's some people are kind of rushing to get to work, but you can drink your coffee in the car on the way to work.
Or wait till you get to work.
Yeah.
Okay, I'm going to try that.
Wait, say that again.
So it doesn't reach its peak until 30 minutes later.
Okay.
Well, let's talk about supplements.
I mean, obviously we're talking about behavioral interventions being absolutely the best, the most likely to actually help.
What about, you know, you were talking about early light exposure, the timing of like going to bed at the same time versus waking up in the morning at the same time.
How does that play a role?
So you think people should try to have a consistent wake-up time in the morning?
But if they are waking up early in the morning during the week, then you'd think they're building up enough sleep pressure to fall asleep earlier.
And so what did they do?
What was the protocol?
How many weeks?
Eight to 10 weeks.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Well, that's awesome.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, let's talk about a couple supplements.
Yeah.
I definitely want to get into jet lag a little bit later, but obviously the top of mind supplement people think about when they think about sleep, I think melatonin.
And then there's the other problem.
There was a few studies that have been published where, I mean, almost all these melatonin supplements that are out on the market have huge variations.
Some of them have like 100 times more melatonin than actually what's on the label.
Yeah, it's a hormone.
I think it's regularly like 500 different protein-encoding genes.
Right.
So when it comes to melatonin, I know there's a lot of questions I get from people is, well, if you're taking a melatonin supplement, are you going to then stop making endogenous melatonin?
And that's also the conclusion I came to.
What about the ability, like your melatonin receptors?
I haven't seen anything either, but it's nice to hear that from you.
They might prevent.
Yeah.
It's why there's not a lot of high quality studies out there on supplements and you always have to take it with a grain of salt.
Right.
And it's like.
Well, with that said, are there any other, I mean, I've heard of a variety of supplements like magnesium, lavender, glycine, L-theanine, any, I mean, moderate evidence that some of these work?
Yeah.
No, I'm definitely not talking about insomnia.
And, you know, some people just like to have a little bit of help.
And glycine is interesting.
That's what I've been interested in.
Have you seen any of the thermal regulation stuff on that?
Right.
It's more of a GABA, like more of that inhibitory.
Fascinating.
So take your multivitamin in the morning, not in the evening.
Okay, let's talk about substances that affect sleep.
Yeah.
This is another one.
I mean, a lot of people will get into CBD because that's like the biggest thing now.
I mean, I just hear it in peer groups.
I hear it on the internet.
I hear it just everywhere in the audience.
But kind of even a step ahead of that, you know, was marijuana.
Right.
Which has CBD and THC.
Right.
They're two separate compounds.
Yeah.
Right.
And so...
I kind of want to start maybe with THC.
Like if someone's doing the whole bang.
Does that affect memory?
Because isn't REM important for incorporating?
Isn't that weird, huh?
But is that, if they're using the THC at night, is it the THC directly affecting their coordination or is it the indirect effect of REM sleep?
And, but having REM effects doesn't sound like it's a good thing though.
Okay.
What about CBD?
What kind of dose and timing are we talking about here?
How does it work?
Does it just reduce anxiety?
I mean, is it like an L-theanine kind of thing?
And does it affect sleep architecture at all?
Yeah.
Okay.
Another one that people use to help themselves fall asleep is alcohol.
Do you think timing it earlier helps?
Yeah, no, I mean, I- And we'll talk about werewolves later.
Yeah, we'll definitely get into that.
Okay, I mean, any other of these?
There's caffeine we could talk about.
I thought there was one study.
Maybe.
Maybe.
And it was like they were giving men caffeine.
It was like nighttime, like close.
It was evening.
And I think it somehow shifted there.
45 minutes or so.
Yeah, it delayed everything by an hour.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I just, I never, does caffeine not do anything to sleep architecture if someone drinks caffeine?
So for those people that say, I can drink a cup of coffee and then go to bed 30 minutes later, it may be disrupting their sleep architecture.
Yeah.
I mean, what's the quickest you could metabolize caffeine though?
I mean, 30 minutes.
They would never feel the effect.
Another one that I've talked about with Dr. Sachin Panda, who's been on the podcast a few times, is late night eating.
And obviously food is a substance.
And at least with my conversations with Sachin, it seems like a good sort of...
on average time to stop eating before you go to bed seems to be at least like three hours or so before you go to bed.
Um, how does, how does food affect sleep?
So how does this apply to shift working and people that have these irregular schedules?
Just don't buy the bad processed food stuff and don't have it in your house.
For shift workers, is there any way they can use these strategic kind of napping strategies to improve?
Most people have families and stuff and they don't, they can't do it.
So how long would that nap be?
Okay, that's great.
As long as you're not drinking a lot of coffee.
Okay.
That makes sense.
I want to kind of shift and talk about jet lag.
Yeah.
And you're talking a little bit about this sort of strategic timing of melatonin.
Yeah.
And light.
And light.
But I've heard you talk about...
jet lag in a way where you've talked about like when you get on a plane and you're going somewhere to a different time zone.
As soon as you get on the plane, you need to mentally be in that time zone that you're going to be in.
So I'd love for you to kind of walk us through, like, how does this relate?
Let's say you're going to the east versus flying eastward versus westward.
I'm going to be going to China soon, a 17-hour difference from where I'm at.
I mean, how am I going to get to that time zone?
So yeah, let's talk a little bit about how can we help ourselves adjust to the new time zone if you're only going somewhere for a day or two, should you try to adjust?
So no naps when you're, when you're traveling.
Yeah, which is why being outside is so important during the day when it's your biological night.
Yes.
Great.
All right.
So no sunglasses in the morning.
So that actually works?
I don't know.
Yeah, because I would imagine, like you were saying earlier, obviously the early morning light, it's not as damaging.
So you play it on meat sunglasses then.
But you're talking about being outside hours during the day and how that also protects you from the blue light inhibiting melatonin later.
Right.
Sorry.
No, no, no.
Yes.
Okay, so let's talk about where we do have a lot of data.
And this is definitely an area that you're an expert in as well.
And that is these sleep tracking devices.
Lots of them out there.
Aura, the Whoop.
What do we have?
Apple Watch.
The Fitbit and Pixel.
You and I are both on the scientific advisory for the Google.
Which is where we first met.
But I want to know.
What metrics do you think are truly good at being captured accurately?
And which ones should we interpret with caution?
Can you repeat what scores we're talking about?
So I was going to ask you what the biggest misconception about these wearable devices you kind of wanted people to know, like right now, and I'm thinking maybe this.
Okay.
Well, let's talk about actionables then.
How can you practically advise people that are watching or listening to this to use their data?
What data can they use and how can they make it actionable?
So if let's say someone is like their heart rate isn't dropping like it's supposed to or, you know, like what sort of things can people do to try to help with that?
What about, I know we talked about the accuracy of the sleep state, being able to measure sleep stages anywhere between maybe 60 to 80%, which isn't terrible.
No, it's not gold standard.
But, you know, let's say that someone is, we're not just talking about a night, but we're talking about weekly, like month, like we're seeing a consistent pattern of not getting enough either deep or REM sleep.
Well, this kind of leads into the next question, which is the pitfalls of these sleep tracking devices.
And I've known several people that have fallen into this pitfall, and that is obsessing over their sleep data, which may not fall into what they want it to be or think it should be.
And that actually...
causing worse sleep because they're just obsessed with it.
And I've heard you refer to this as orthosomnia.
It sounds much like the, the stimulus, negative stimulus, right?
Let's talk about making these numbers better.
And I know that we've kind of talked, we've touched on it a little bit.
So you tell me like if there's more information that you want to share about it, but like using sleep as a cognitive performance enhancer.
Yes.
You talked a little bit about this.
Is that harder for younger adults?
Because they're, I mean, at least I know as you hit adolescence, your circadian rhythm is later.
It shifts later.
So you're, I mean, I go to bed at midnight instead of.
100%.
100%.
It's a lot.
I mean, colleges, I can't speak for that.
But for like high schools, it's about the parents' work schedule.
But you said you can sort of use strategically light, so early light exposure, and then melatonin to help with that.
What time of day?
Early exercise.
Right.
What's the most, if we're talking about athletic performance, what's the most consistent sleep
So like 15 minutes a night?
Do you go to bed earlier 15 minutes?
So it's really about the week before.
A week or two.
Okay.
Yeah.
Come from that place of strength.
Is this the same for a cognitive performance as well?
So sleep banking, really, it's not just about the night before.
And that's great to know because so many people stress about the night before.
But if they know that ahead of time.
For in terms of like recovery, injury prevention, how strong is that data that you really do?
Yeah, that's very interesting, your study.
The cognitive performance one, I'm very interested in just personal reasons.
And I'm wondering, like, is there, let's say someone's getting pretty good-ish sleep.
Like, would you have a couple of your top tips that, do you think they could still improve cognitive performance
with a couple of sleep tips.
And if so, what are they?
So darkness and dark.
Don't have a puppy in your room.
Okay, awesome.
Okay, let's get to some of these rapid fire audience questions.
Best evidence-based way to fall asleep and stay asleep.
Fall asleep faster and stay asleep.
I definitely do number two.
I'm definitely now going to be on top of this control thing because I'm super interested in it.
Bang for your buck, sleep tip in the world.
Great.
Okay, awesome.
Most effective pre-bed routine you've seen to shorten sleep onset?
All right.
Uh, best strategy to fall back asleep quickly after waking in the night.
Don't panic.
I'm going to recap.
One proven method to increase deep sleep in healthy adults is...
Okay, cool.
Most effective way to reduce nighttime urination and wake-ups?
I've done this before.
In fact, I used to go I used to get up to go to the bathroom one time in the night.
Yeah.
And now I don't get up at all to go to the bathroom.
And, you know, I'll usually wake up and it's probably like around five ish or so.
And I feel like, oh, I could go pee.
But I just like close my eyes and go back to sleep.
And guess what?
You're fine.
I've made it.
I've made it now months without having to do this.
No, I'm going to be all over the stimulus control thing.
That's going to be my new thing.
Okay.
One actionable change that measurably improves overall sleep quality.
Yeah.
My husband and I, we have our own separate blankets on our bed.
Right, where I'm not feeling the movement as much.
For sure.
Okay.
How can you quickly assess if you're getting enough sleep without a lab test?
I like those.
I like those.
Do you really need eight hours of sleep?
Yeah.
Optimally functioning.
Right.
Okay.
And then one practical tip for aligning lifestyle with your chronotype.
Well, this has been very, very enlightening and interesting.
I've actually learned quite a bit today.
So thank you so much for coming on the show.
You have a book coming out in, I think, October.
It's all about wearable sleep technology.
Yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to it.
A book on wearable sleep technology written by an academic who actually knows about it.
It sounds interesting.
It'll be fun.
So great.
So people can look you up.
You got your lab at the University of Arizona.
Yep.
Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all this really, really knowledgeable, you know, important information with everyone.
And thank you for everything that you do.
Thank you so much to Dr. Michael Gradner for sharing his incredible knowledge today.
And thank you all for listening and supporting the podcast.
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Welcome back to the podcast.
Today, we're exploring one of the most influential hormones in human health and performance, testosterone.
Joining me for this comprehensive conversation is Derek, founder of the popular YouTube channel, More Plates, More Dates, and co-founder of Merrick Health, a company focused on personalized preventative healthcare.
Derek and I recently spent an intensive eight-hour session together in Vancouver recording back-to-back podcasts where I joined him as a guest and he joined me.
Today, you'll hear a deep dive into testosterone, addressing critical topics like testosterone's fundamental roles in men, including muscle mass, bone density, mood regulation, libido, cognitive function, and aging.
How testosterone is accurately measured, interpreted, and optimized, including distinctions between total and free testosterone and why these nuances matter.
Identifying symptoms and underlying causes of low testosterone and understanding why two individuals with similar hormone levels may experience vastly different health outcomes.
Lifestyle factors that significantly lower testosterone from chronic stress and poor sleep to environmental endocrine disruptors.
Practical evidence-based strategies to naturally boost testosterone levels, emphasizing diet, exercise protocols, sleep optimization, and stress management.
We also discuss an evidence-driven evaluation of popular testosterone-boosting supplements, vitamin D, zinc, magnesium, ashwagandha, fenugreek, tonga ali, and more.
We highlight what truly works and what's hype.
We also discuss the intricacies of testosterone replacement therapy, who should consider it, the expected benefits, potential risks, safe dosing practices, and responsible monitoring protocols.
We also discuss testosterone's increasingly recognized importance for women's health, including impacts on libido, body composition, cognitive function, and athletic performance, alongside crucial considerations for therapeutic use and risk management.
And finally, we have a focused exploration of testosterone's role in hair loss,
the interplay with DHT, genetic predisposition, and also we discussed Derek's personal hair loss journey and proven strategies for mitigation.
By the end of this episode, you'll have a nuanced, scientifically robust understanding of testosterone and practical guidance on how to assess, optimize, and manage your levels effectively.
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And now on to my discussion with Derek on all things testosterone.
I'm sitting here with Derek from More Plates, More Dates.
You may know him from his very large YouTube channel where he talks about
All sorts of things, hormones, exercise, training.
I became sort of aware of your work because you were on our mutual friends podcast, Peter Attia, a couple of times.
super interested in, you know, your own personal experience, but you also run a company that's a preventative health company that helps people optimize their hormones, among other things.
And so, I mean, I'm excited to have a conversation with you.
You've got a lot of this experience, you know, personal experience, but also experience just running this company where people are coming to your company to help optimize their hormones.
And so it's a
A little bit of a different episode here.
As you guys know, I cite everything on the podcast.
And so I'm excited to kind of dive in and talk about all things hormones with you, Derek.
So thanks for coming on the show.
I'd love to kind of start.
I want to talk about testosterone, as you know, you know, kind of discussed this earlier.
You're very knowledgeable in this area.
In fact, we had a conversation and I was asking you some questions and your knowledge was very impressive in terms of the scope and depth.
So all things testosterone kind of just wanted to start with.
the role of testosterone in men.
I mean, it's obviously fundamental for male health, but I'd love if you could kind of just outline some of the primary functions of testosterone in men.
I do.
We are going to focus a lot on the role of testosterone in males and men.
But I do kind of just briefly before we will eventually talk about females and women.
But what is the major role of testosterone in women?
I mean, women obviously don't make as much as men, but they do make testosterone and it does play a functional role.
So given the role of testosterone in all these important physiological processes that you just described, everything from muscle health, bone health, neurological health, red cell production, et cetera, what about
the trade-offs of testosterone.
And I mentioned this because of my interest in longevity, my long interest in life expectancy and looking at life expectancy between men and women.
And you really see amongst pretty much all mammal species that the females outlive the males.
Obviously, there's a lot of differences going on there, but testosterone is also something that does, you know, differentiate.
There's a big difference between the levels of testosterone between males and females.
So I'm kind of curious.
I know you think about a lot of these things, and so I'm curious what your thoughts are with respect to the tradeoffs of testosterone with respect to longevity.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a loaded question because there's probably a lot of factors at play here in terms of like the differences in life expectancy between males and females.
And you're pointing out the size difference is one, you know, maybe it's the lack of estrogen, right?
Not the presence of testosterone, but not a lack of estrogen.
Obviously, men make estrogen, but...
Not to the same degree as women, premenopausal women.
But have you have you looked at any of that literature?
Are you aware of it?
Did you happen to see that their life expectancy was increased, though?
Yeah.
I mean, so, I mean, it's like you're living longer, but not necessarily the quality of life is not.
Right.
So maybe, I don't know.
It's interesting.
Like, what is it?
Right.
Yeah.
So you live longer, but you don't necessarily want to.
Right.
Yeah.
So that's kind of interesting.
I just kind of want to get your perspective on that.
Yeah.
I'd love to kind of dive into an area that I know you have a lot of knowledge, you know, just based off of your company, Merrick Health, where you guys are really helping people optimize their hormone levels.
And so I kind of want to talk a little bit about some of the best practices for measuring testosterone, interpreting the results.
Could you kind of outline some of the
optimal best practices for actually measuring testosterone levels.
So, you know, optimal timing, repeated measures, like free testosterone versus bound testosterone or total testosterone, right?
Like what's the difference here?
What should they like consider?
So you sort of alluded to this, like talking about reference ranges.
And I kind of want to get into that because like, you know, there are these like reference ranges that you see.
And I'm just kind of like curious, like how does a man navigate that?
where their testosterone should be, what the reference ranges mean.
How do you look at this?
How does your company look at this with respect to age, with respect to symptoms?
Let's say someone's on the lower end of the reference range, but they have no symptoms, or someone's at the higher end of the range, but they have symptoms.
How does one sort of interpret what their...
testosterone data shows and how does the potential for someone who's actually hypogonadal, so people that are actually not making testosterone, right?
How does that sort of complicate it?
Is that something that's measured readily?
Like, can you measure your response to your androgen receptor activity?
Or is that something that's not really known and you kind of have to do some... There are like proxies for it.
You mentioned the gonadotropins.
What would the luteinizing hormone or follicle-stimulating hormone, FSH, what would those kind of look like in the cases where it's kind of like a red flag?
I mean, is...
Yeah, we're going to get into a little bit, but okay.
What about the sex-binding globulin hormone, SBGH?
Sex hormone-binding globulin.
What about the sex hormone-binding globulin?
Like, you're talking about, like, if...
if you have a lot, if you have a high level of that and it's bound up to your testosterone.
So a couple of questions here, what regulates those levels and what regulates like,
How much of that testosterone can then get away from that, you know, binding protein and then be used to, you know, obviously exert hormonal activity.
So, you know, can you can you like dial in looking at just that binding protein itself to help kind of solve some issues?
And that's only with oral.
Since we're talking about the SPGH levels, I kind of want to like, what is their lifestyle?
So does age regulate that and also like lifestyle factors?
And this is also something that would be relevant for females too, right?
Is that something that's common?
So in other words, like if they have if their libido is like totally down, perhaps like they're having a harder time losing fat, gaining muscle, losing fat.
It might it could come down to this.
Right.
Bone integrity.
Right.
Yeah.
No, no, this is great.
This is great information.
You know, since we're kind of talking a little bit about symptoms, let's kind of circle back to talking about like, what are the symptoms of low testosterone?
You know, we're talking about men here, but like we talked about libido, muscle mass, like what are like the classic symptoms that men should be looking out for?
Is it something that's hard to differentiate between, okay, this is testosterone or other things?
Right.
Yeah.
So you mentioned by age 30, total testosterone decreases by about 1% per year.
And then you mentioned even... In general.
In general.
Right, right.
On average.
Like, yeah, exactly.
And that's where I was going to ask you.
So the question is then, like, there are lifestyle factors that really can sort of modulate that, you know, general decrease or not.
So maybe you can accelerate it or maybe you can slow it, right?
And I kind of want to dive into some of those lifestyle factors.
Like, what should men...
avoid or try to minimize in terms of their environmental exposure or lifestyle factors that are known to accelerate the decline in testosterone and or
increase the binding protein so there's less free testosterone, right?
Anything that's going to necessarily regulate the ability of testosterone to exert its, you know, its function essentially.
Any amount or like light drinking, moderate drinking?
What does weight loss do to those levels?
Like if you are someone that's obese and then you lose weight, does that bring you back?
Yeah.
I definitely want to dive into some of the diet things in a minute, but I wanted to ask you about a couple of things with respect to maybe factors to avoid.
What effect does excessive endurance training have on testosterone?
Because I thought I came across some literature where it was a negative effect, and I wasn't sure how robust...
I kind of like.
Right.
Yeah.
No, it's definitely not easily.
Like there's not a lot of people that are.
Well, I kind of think of the analogy here for women.
It would be like when women are excessively endurance training and in a severe caloric deficit and they become amenorrhetic.
Right.
So they're essentially not ovulating anymore.
And in fact, you mentioned like wanting to get shredded for the summer.
Well, I actually in my 20s.
Was was doing this very thing where I mean, I was running like 10 miles a day and I was eating like carrots and hummus and that's it.
You know, it was like not fueling myself.
No, like hardly any fat.
You know, it was very like very sort of like low protein diet.
you know, low fat diet.
And I definitely got shredded ish, but like I became a burneretic for several months, you know, where I just didn't get my period and I wasn't ovulating.
And so I had to add back the calories and the food.
It was like, and it took a while before my body kind of like recalibrated.
But I feel like that's kind of like the analogy that like women, it is, it's like your body shuts down.
It's like, okay, I'm not getting enough calories.
Um,
Reproduction is not essential right now.
Survival mode, right?
Not reproductive, like happy growth mode.
It's like survival mode.
That's wild.
Yeah.
That's wild.
Just to kind of sum up the like factors to avoid.
I wanted to get your opinion on endocrine disrupting chemicals.
Like how have you or has your, you know, your company looked or seen anything or do you have any speculation to like what the scientific literature has shown in terms of them affecting hormone levels?
I often hear from many people, popular media as well as just people I speak to or comments that I read about testosterone levels being lower now in men than they have ever been.
For one, like...
Is that true?
Do you think that's true?
And two, like, what are some of the major contributors?
Is it obesity, since obesity is rampant?
I mean, or is it just like everything that you mentioned, all sort of like compounding together, not necessarily just the increase in, you know, BPA and plastic, you know, endocrine disrupting chemicals that are now a lot more prevalent than they were, you know, 60 or 70 years ago?
Does chlorine have an effect on testosterone?
I don't I don't like maybe.
OK.
Yeah, I think I think more of like BPA, but and consuming it like or like you said, hot, like heating up the plastic or like hot beverages, like going into like something plastic.
But yeah, I agree.
I think that these lifestyle factors are paramount.
And
I'd love to kind of get a little bit more into some of those, particularly like, so you've already mentioned the diet and I'm kind of, you mentioned protein, fat, carbohydrate, you know, like, so what, why are some of these important?
So fats are important to make, you know, the backbones of hormones.
Maybe we can talk just a little bit about like why low-fat diets and why people should be incorporating fat into their diet to make sure that they're... Yeah, like in general, it's not like if you have...
Well, it's interesting I learned something from you because I was aware of the importance of fat, particularly a certain amount of saturated fat, which is known to increase endogenous cholesterol production.
But the carbohydrates and the insulin response and having that insulin action or response, I didn't realize that was also important.
Yeah.
especially for the free hormones, the amount of free hormones.
So it's interesting to think about a ketogenic diet.
As you mentioned, some people can really be in a problematic state if they're on a ketogenic diet and their free testosterone just kind of tanks.
Well, what you're saying is like get your hormones measured, measure them right and make sure that you're monitoring.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
With respect to other sort of like lifestyle factors that can maybe boost testosterone.
So we're talking about dietary factors here.
Yeah.
What about exercise?
Resistance training is one that comes to my mind when I think about trying to boost testosterone.
I mean, is there merit to that?
Is that something that moves the needle?
With respect to some of the micronutrients, it kind of this kind of gets into the supplement area as well.
But you mentioned some important ones that I've also kind of like come across in the literature and that being vitamin D, zinc, magnesium.
Can we can we just dive a little bit into their effectiveness?
Like there's like is there human data on it?
Like do you know anything about how they're working?
I mean, I've seen I've read some of the human studies, particularly on the vitamin D and like getting like.
Higher dose vitamin D supplementation, improving testosterone.
But I mean, I'd love to kind of just take a moment to kind of talk a little bit more about that if you want.
In your opinion, like let's say someone is on the deficient range of vitamin D, their inadequate magnesium, perhaps their zinc is, you know, maybe OK or in the inadequate range.
Would getting to that sufficient status really move the needle with respect to like testosterone?
Yeah, I'd love to talk about those.
I mean, you hear some of these herbal supplements and like some of the ashwagandha fenugreek with Tonga Ali.
I mean, let's dive into that.
Like, are they effective?
Which ones are effective?
Which ones are hype?
What was that compound they're standardized to again?
And is that the active compound that affects testosterone?
What's a dose that would be considered overdoing it and what's a dose that would maybe be effective for suppressing the cortisol response and indirectly affecting testosterone by not having the cortisol decreasing the testosterone?
That sounds awful.
Yeah.
But I mean, for someone who is more of an anxious phenotype, like.
600 milligrams.
And what was that ingredient called again?
Now, how does Tonkat Ali compare to like boron?
I mean, it sounds like for men, it might be like you're getting a bigger bang because it's doing it's working in two different ways.
Okay.
Well, yeah, it's just kind of interesting.
Would the Tonkat LE work in women as well, just through the SHBG?
Or maybe the boron?
I don't know.
Just off the topic here, boron has also kind of been thought to potentially be a longevity molecule as well.
There's some evidence that boron may be involved in improving aging.
So when you said boron, I was like, oh, really?
That sounds interesting.
Yeah.
Are there any others?
You know, I hear about, you know, the fenugreek and then some of these like diasporic acid.
Are there any others that are notable or would you say more hype?
Okay, great.
And then if you're like the anxious person at an ashwagandha.
Right.
I mean, I've been interested in ashwagandha.
I kind of experimented with it like halfheartedly like years ago.
And I think I'm going to now bring it back into circulation because I do.
I am interested in in the stress management part of it, like lowering some of the cortisol and stress, although I do that with exercise.
But yeah.
If there's like a side effect of like, you know, just a little bit of testosterone boost, like that would be great, you know, for me.
So I think that's going to be another experiment of mine that I try out.
Shake your blood first, though.
Yeah, no, that's, I already told you I want to get my hormones.
I've had them measured, but, like, I don't feel confident.
I haven't had repeated measurements.
What the baseline was.
Yeah, no, definitely, for sure.
But let's talk about, like, let's say people are, you know, trying all these.
Cool.
All right.
Right.
And do you usually, you spit in multiple times a day to kind of get that curve?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Good information.
Let's kind of transition to like people that have, let's say like, let's get back into the men category here that have like exhausted these natural ways.
They've like...
you know, perhaps lost weight or done all the lifestyle factors that we've talked about to improve their testosterone.
They're both total and free, all that above.
Who should consider hormone replacement therapy?
Like, how does a man identify whether or not they're a good candidate?
I mean, is it really just recommended for men with clinically low testosterone and symptoms?
We kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but I kind of want to just go into this area now of actual testosterone replacement therapy.
No, it's a really good point, you know, and also like talking about what any, you know, key risks and side effects are as well.
So, I mean, that's kind of important.
But like before we get to the risks, like what kind of benefits can someone who is, you know, clearly like experiencing these symptoms of low testosterone expect from, you know, perhaps doing testosterone replacement therapy?
I mean, you mentioned HCG, but I'm kind of here directing it more towards like actual testosterone replacement therapy.
Right.
So you're not like necessarily going to be shredded in a couple of weeks.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, I think, you know, it's important to point out like some guys might...
see that their testosterone is like on the lower end of the normal reference range and like want to do something about it like with respect to like not skipping over the lifestyle factors and just like I'm going to go straight into like I'm just going to take some testosterone right and I think that would be the case to avoid right if you're not especially not really having symptoms but you're just kind of like freaked out by the numbers right.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
So let's talk about some of the important risks that, you know, people should keep in mind when they're going to start testosterone replacement therapy.
I know you've like talked about this, heard about it, like the cardiovascular disease risk.
I mean, for a while it was a controversy, right?
Like doing testosterone replacement therapy is going to increase your cardiovascular disease risk.
Yeah.
there's the Traverse trial that's kind of, we got some pre-data here where it seems as though, this is a very large trial, placebo-controlled, where it seems as though men, these are older men that were, at least it seems to be hypogonadal, like they were low testosterone.
And if they were given testosterone replacement therapy to a normal physiological restoration range,
there's no really adverse effects on cardiovascular outcomes.
What's the thought here with respect to cardiovascular disease risk?
No, this is so important.
And that's kind of why I was like, these are hypogonadal.
And, you know, it's like, I guess their normal physiological range is not really accurate if it's only going to like 400.
So basically, you're just making a non-hypogonadal.
But it is important because you mentioned erythroporesis.
And so this is another kind of concern.
you know, with testosterone, which does regulate red blood cell production, it does increase, you know, the thickness of blood.
And polycythemia is, I would say, a risk factor, right?
So, you know, how substantial is this?
I mean, I think I've read studies where it's like almost 25% of men have thicker blood that are on testosterone replacement therapy.
Now, it doesn't necessarily mean it's like
to the point where it has to be treated, but it is thicker, right?
It is like the hematocrit is thicker.
So, you know, how should men weigh these risks for the cardiovascular disease risk, the polycythemia?
So for people like listening or watching, that isn't a concern because it increases, you know, stroke risk.
It increases the potential for, you know, cardiovascular events as well.
So like, what are your thoughts on sort of weighing those risks?
So you're touching on an important point here that supraphysiologic level, like the amount that you wouldn't necessarily have in like a normal physiologically level.
I mean, I read a study where it was like 25 percent of men have this and it seems like it might be due to this like dosing, this injection protocol.
What's wrong with the cream?
Like, is that something that doesn't get your levels high enough or is it just like annoying to have to do every day?
Yeah.
I mean, I get that.
But like, you know.
like stroke risk, cardiovascular disease.
Okay.
What about other like parts of the risk profile?
So like how does it affect the prostate?
I read about fertility.
I mean, being a big one too, it's suppressing fertility.
Sleep apnea can be exacerbated as well.
I mean, these are all like part of the risk profile things to consider.
Okay.
But go ahead.
Please explain it.
Unless we're talking about that supraphysiological level where it seems as though like one in four men don't even know they're in that level.
They are.
I mean, it sounds... They must be, like, also just, like, they get aggressive and stuff and, like... Irritable.
I mean, to me, so, like, let's say...
adherence like compliance that's a whole issue right obviously but let's just like if we're just talking about risk profile right like you're not wanting to really get into that supra physiological level you're not like you know you're not like the bodybuilder you're not like you know you're the person that just really wants to keep that risk low but you want to get the benefits okay like that's that's what you want you really don't want the risk like just not not on the table for you
What would be the best?
There's the different methods you kind of mentioned a few.
Maybe you could kind of just go through them again briefly.
But like, what would be the best method to get you to a more normal range?
Maybe you're not someone that's totally hypogonadal, but like, you know, low T symptoms, right?
Lower T and symptoms.
But what you're aging, you're an aged, you know, like a 50 year old man or something.
What would be the ideal delivery method that would really get you those benefits but lower that risk profile?
Well, especially if you're, you're monitoring biomarkers and we'd love, I'd love to like talk about some of those in a minute, but I think that's, that's the key to right.
Like monitoring.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
So it's kind of a newer thing.
And when it comes to the injections, it sounds like more frequent sub-Q is like subcutaneous is like where you're going to get more less of the probability of having that supra physiological peak versus like if you're just doing it once a week, intramuscular, not bleeding out that like response there effect.
But again, as you mentioned, compliance is definitely going to be better if you're doing it once a week.
But I mean, twice a week, three times like every other day.
I mean, you know, for people that are that are really concerned about risk profile, perhaps they have already like, you know, a family history of cardiovascular disease or stroke or whatever.
They probably are more incentivized to like lower that risk for any potential side effects.
Yeah.
What about men that are wanting to reproduce?
Wow.
At what point does that atrophy start to occur?
I mean, like how long do you have to be on, you know, TRT before that really starts to happen?
Wow.
And so this is also kind of important to point out for like guys that are, you know, cowboying it and trying to like they want to they want to get their T up for like maybe some muscular effects or something.
Right.
And they're just kind of like maybe not hypogonadal, but like lower range.
Yeah.
And biomarkers to monitor, right?
Let's say you are going to be on this.
And so some of the biomarkers, you mentioned like lipids and we're talking about hematocrit, right?
Like some of these biomarkers are important.
Like what would be, or what are some of the ones that your company measures or what you think are important to measure?
PSA, right?
I don't know what they stand for either.
It's pretty comprehensive.
I don't imagine everyone is doing that.
So just briefly, women, you know, this is another.
I'd love to know.
We've talked a lot already about, like,
Testing methodology, timing tests, you know, time of the day to test and all that stuff.
But, you know, how how does a woman go about like determining whether or not she has low testosterone needs to kind of.
figure out dietary lifestyle-wise, like, you know, obviously that's the first line of, you know, defense, right?
You kind of address that first.
But I just would like to talk about, like, generally speaking, clinical symptoms in women.
Sounds like it's pretty similar to men.
We talked about that.
What females are a candidate for testosterone replacement therapy?
Like, what's the actual reference range for women?
Let's say they also have symptoms.
Or maybe they just want to have...
some of the benefits of a little bit more testosterone as they're getting into perimenopause and such.
So, yeah.
Can we talk a little bit about like women?
Maybe you should, like, you know... Yeah, I mean, especially as you're mentioning, like, the range is so small for us, right, for women, that, like...
I mean, I'm concerned, like, even trying.
I mean, I don't know if I need it right now, but, you know, I'm not saying that I'm going to.
But, you know, for women that, like, do go and get a test, again, we don't even know that they got the right test.
Maybe it wasn't even sensitive enough, right?
And so now they're getting on testosterone replacement therapy, and then it's like...
You know, it feels like kind of like the Wild West in a way.
Right.
Like you mentioned, it's there's no FDA approved TRT for women.
So it's off label.
You're kind of just going.
I don't know.
It feels like uncharted territory.
Yeah, you got to do your due diligence.
You got to educate yourself.
No, I mean, this would, podcasts like this are for as well.
What kind of dose of DHEA?
Totally.
Yeah.
No, this is great info.
Kind of the last topic to get to, and we've already sort of touched on it, was like some of the side effects of maybe perhaps some of this androgen therapy or hormone replacement therapy hair loss.
Mm-hmm.
And this is something I know you've personally talked about.
It's very interesting.
And I sort of just want to talk about it out of my own interest.
Like, why does hair loss occur?
Like, what is the role of DHT in that process?
Yeah.
Melatonin, right?
Oh yeah, sulforaphane.
Broccoli sprouts on the head.
My dad, but his hair's gray, but it's essentially the same.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Full thick, like head of hair, but it's just white.
Very thick.
Yeah.
But it's, it's now he's an outlier for sure.
I do.
Is it on the mom's side?
Right, it doesn't seem like it always does.
Well, let's talk about the proactive.
I mean, so, you know, what are these proactive measurements that can be done that do happen?
That's depressing.
Yeah.
So with respect to the topical, you know, strategies like the minoxidil, I mean, obviously, what are the side effects of that?
Oh, I thought it was topical.
It's funny, the microneedling, like I'm interested in it for skin effects.
Yeah, people use it on their face too.
And it was funny in their brochure, it was like, there's like this whole hair loss area to the microneedling and some of the stem cell growth factors that they use.
And I was like, hmm, what's going on here?
And I was like, oh, so it's like regrowing hair.
And she was like, yeah, we've done like a small study and we added...
It was like a combination of growth factors that are involved in, like, you know, stem cell production in the hair follicle.
And so I'm wondering if, like, you... But that's why I was, like, interested in the microneedling, too, with the hair.
I was like, oh, so they're essentially just making it better absorbed.
You're, like, you're getting... Whereas if you were to put some, you know, stem cell factors on just your scalp, like, it's just not going to get absorbed, really.
That seems like a legit pathway for for some men that are like a little bit skittish about potential side effects with the oral drugs as well, because like the finasteride and what is the other one?
Dutasteride.
Dutasteride.
You know, you mentioned the erection, but like, are there any other serious side effects with those that are really cancer?
I've heard of this like post-dutaster or post-finasteride syndrome.
Oh, for sure.
It's very real.
Yeah.
And there's actually, believe it or not, there's genes that you can, there's SNPs that are known that you can look at.
And even 23andMe does measure these SNPs for placebo versus nocebo.
And so like some people are more,
like susceptible to a placebo effect where they like believe in something and it's going to happen.
And I'm like, like I'm taking all my creatine.
I'm like, yes, I'm like, I'm not getting sleepy in the afternoon and it could be placebo, but I don't care because it's a real effect, right?
Nocebo effect is the same.
And again, there's SNPs that like some people that have those SNPs are more susceptible to, to believing that something is harming them if they're like aware of those things.
And so, yeah, well, that's interesting to know, but.
Okay.
I see.
Yeah.
But essentially, if you want to completely bypass it, you have to get, you have to inhibit.
Okay.
Wow.
Interesting stuff.
And you've been doing this yourself, right?
Are there any long-term studies looking at?
Have they looked at like all cause mortality or any of these?
I was just going to say the same thing.
Yeah.
Well, it's something to dive into later for sure.
And maybe, you know, it'd be nice to have a study to see like people that are on TRT and, you know, doing these, these androgen, you know, blockers, like how, how that affects life expectancy or cardiovascular related disease.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For real.
Thank you.
Well, this has been a very interesting conversation, Derek.
We've been talking for, I mean, just hours.
I don't even know how many hours.
Eight?
That was my first back to back.
Oh, yeah.
Especially like long back to long podcast back to back.
So it's been it's been a fun day talking to you.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Talking all things hormones.
Very informative.
I've learned a lot.
I have a lot to look into.
I learned, you know.
I've made mental notes of things that I want to look into and I'll go back.
And when I look at the read the episode again, read the transcript of the episode, I'll go back and look at some of these studies.
So thank you so much for coming on the show.
And you obviously have a big YouTube channel podcast called More Plates, More Dates.
Where else can people follow you?
You have your your health care company, Merrick Health.
Awesome.
Well, thanks so much, Derek.
Thank you for listening and a huge thank you to Derek for joining me today.
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Insulin resistance is increasingly recognized as a key contributor to chronic diseases such as obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and even cognitive decline, often developing silently years before conventional tests detect a problem.
Yet most people don't realize they're insulin resistant until blood glucose tests finally flash a warning sign, often decades too late.
The reality is, is that millions of people are unknowingly walking around with persistently elevated insulin levels, what we might call pre-pre-diabetes.
And this silent dysfunction has profound implications for their long-term metabolic health, disease risk, and longevity.
Today, I'm joined by Dr. Ben Bickman, an expert in insulin metabolism and one of the most insightful voices in unraveling the complexities behind insulin resistance.
Dr. Bickman is a professor of physiology and developmental biology at Brigham Young University, whose research has reshaped our understanding of insulin's broader roles far beyond glucose regulation.
His work highlights how insulin resistance differentially impacts muscle, liver, and fat tissue, the critical roles environmental toxins play, and the practical interventions that can significantly restore insulin sensitivity.
In this episode, Ben and I dive deep into crucial topics, including why insulin resistance remains hidden until advanced stages, how to detect it early through simple tests, and actionable first steps to reverse insulin resistance immediately.
what insulin's broader physiological roles are beyond just blood glucose, its profound influence on fat storage, appetite regulation, inflammation, and chronic disease.
We also discuss macronutrients and insulin sensitivity, discussing how different dietary compounds like refined carbohydrates, sugars, even certain types of fats like saturated fats and polyunsaturated fats uniquely impact insulin signaling, inflammation, and metabolic health, as well as their relative roles in driving insulin resistance.
We discuss how meal timing, frequency and caloric restriction independently influence insulin sensitivity, including practical insights into intermittent fasting and time-restricted eating protocols.
We also discuss why not all fat cells are equal, including the metabolic dangers of visceral fat versus subcutaneous fat, the concept of personalized fat threshold, and what actually happens to fat cells during weight loss.
We discuss lifestyle environmental factors beyond diet, including stress, sleep deprivation, nicotine exposure, and endocrine-disrupting chemicals, including those found in microplastics.
We also discuss lifestyle and environmental factors beyond diet, including stress, sleep deprivation, nicotine exposure, and microplastics, and how they may significantly influence insulin sensitivity and overall metabolic health.
We discuss the emerging use and potential pitfalls of GLP-1 agonist medications, including Ozembic and Wegovi, including their effects on fat versus muscle loss, long-term metabolic health, and whether microdosing offers a safer path to longevity benefits.
And finally, we discuss practical evidence-based strategies you can start today, including dietary modifications, exercise protocols, targeted supplementation to rapidly improve insulin sensitivity, and invest in your long-term metabolic health span.
By the end of this conversation, you'll have a deeper understanding of insulin resistance as a significant contributor to chronic diseases and aging, and you'll also gain practical tools to meaningfully improve your metabolic resilience starting immediately.
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Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm very excited to be sitting here with Dr. Ben Bickman, who is a professor of cell biology at Brigham Young University.
And he specializes in all things metabolic disorders and metabolism.
So I'm pretty excited to have a very well-rounded discussion today, Ben.
This has been a while.
I've been following your research for some time now.
So I'm excited to have this conversation with you.
I'm too.
Yeah, thanks.
This will be great.
I kind of wanted to start out with something a little provocative and I don't want to say surprising.
This question for you is a lot of people that have normal blood glucose levels, quote unquote, can actually be insulin resistant.
Why is that?
And what what is this state of like pre pre diabetes?
And why is it something that is not caught sooner?
Oh, I definitely want to get into that.
Well, just sort of as a follow-up question, in this world we live in now where continuous glucose monitors are so becoming very popular, many people have them, without a prescription you can get them.
Yep.
Is there any signs or tests using those that people can do to kind of look for this potential problem with having perhaps high insulin?
In fact, they're not measuring insulin, but glucose.
So many researchers, including yourself, do view insulin resistance as a sort of root of causing many different types of chronic diseases, age-related diseases, obviously type 2 diabetes, obesity is in there, cardiovascular disease.
Alzheimer's, fatty liver disease, infertility.
So why is that?
Yeah.
Something that people think is the root cause of so many chronic diseases.
And again, you're talking about insulin resistance being common and certainly like this pre-pre-diabetic state being pretty common.
What do you think the reason for that is?
So some researchers think that the high insulin is more of a response to ectopic fat accumulation, obesity sort of being the underlying cause of the high insulin.
So how do you kind of differentiate between this cause and effect?
What role does ectopic fat accumulation have in insulin resistance causing high insulin?
Yeah, well, this is, we've got a lot to dive into here.
I mean, it's funny, I remember one of my first projects as a budding young scientist was to look at insulin resistance, like free fatty acids, and can you make like a little nematode worm insulin resistant?
And, you know, it, from my understanding, had to do with the adipocyte cell and this sort of spillover
Of ceramides that are then attacking.
It all had to do with the AKT signaling pathway.
Yes.
You know, stopping basically the insulin receptor.
Well, it's just one of those things that, you know, when you do experiments, and especially when it's, like, something – one of your first projects, you kind of remember it.
And so, you know, as I became interested in nutrition, you know, later on down the line, and it's like, well –
It always stuck with me.
There's a role for fatty acids in causing insulin resistance.
Oh, there is.
So that was something that kind of stuck in my head.
And I think we're going to get into some of the dietary causes in just a minute.
But beyond, we're talking about, you kind of hinted at this earlier, insulin has many roles.
And oftentimes, the general public thinks about its role in just regulating blood glucose levels.
Mm-hmm.
But maybe you could just talk about some of the other roles insulin plays, for example, in fat accumulation.
Okay.
Well, we're really getting into this sort of underlying cause of what's causing the insulin resistance.
I mean, obviously the...
what's causing the high insulin as well.
And then ultimately obesity is in that mixture as well.
And I think, you know, refined carbohydrates is something that you've mentioned.
And I think a lot of people think that refined carbohydrates definitely play a role in insulin resistance, perhaps a primary role.
But, um, aside from the obesity, as you're talking about obesity being that slow forming insulin resistance, um,
What role – can we talk a little bit deeper about carbohydrates, refined carbohydrates?
Saturated fats is also something you touched on, the ceramide as well.
We know palmitate kind of plays into that pathway.
And so what role do dietary carbs, refined versus maybe complex –
Saturated fats play.
And then is this all in the background of caloric excess or, you know, being in a deficit?
Does that matter as well?
The mixture of the two sort of like, because there's nuance here.
Let me kind of get into it.
So if you're in a caloric deficit and you're eating some refined carbs, then it's not necessarily going to – I think you have more wiggle room.
You've got to eat.
And indeed... But calories aren't an issue in that context, really.
The saturated fat scenario is that there is definitely a pathway to insulin resistance.
However, it seems as though if you're more of a ketogenic type of eater, low carb ketogenic type of eater, that pathway doesn't seem to be relevant.
I think it's problematic and not just for metabolic health, but cardiometabolic health.
I mean, that's where you get small dense LDL particles.
Again, it's the combination of the saturated fat and the refined carbohydrates.
Now, are we talking about
When you're having a high saturated fat diet in combination with what you call carbohydrate, high carb, I mean, is this, what if you're eating fruits and vegetables and maybe some oats?
Is that the same as eating cookies and processed foods?
And but what about like fructose versus glucose?
If you're having more fructose in the fruit, is that really causing the same insulin response as a refined?
So with respect to insulin resistance and weight loss and obesity and what's causing like the cause of these things, right?
I mean, this is where we get into there's also this sort of war between saturated fat versus sort of a high carb diet.
And can you lose weight on one or the other better?
And that's where Kevin Hall's study was kind of interesting.
I'd love to get your thoughts because
So he's published a study back in 2021.
NIH did a pretty well-controlled study where people were on a higher-carb diet or they were on a ketogenic diet.
They were isocaloric, so the same calories.
But did they lose more fat as well?
Well, speaking of wiggle room, I mean, we're talking about a variety of scenarios here where people can have wiggle room.
We talked about being in caloric deficit gives you a little more wiggle room.
Being in a ketogenic or close to a ketogenic state seems to give you more wiggle room.
But what about being highly physically active?
Right, and also you mentioned the study that was comparing strength training to the low carb.
Right, well, I think also high intensity interval training, when you're doing, you know, there's a lot of work on, so we're talking about
How exercise can improve metabolic health.
And I think it is a really important lever to pull here because you're activating these glute four transporters.
And it does that, like that activation happens through lactate, the generation of lactate, which is happening when you're really pushing yourself hard.
Yeah.
And so at that point, you know, you're becoming insulin sensitive too, right?
You are.
So you're really kind of changing the scenario in some ways.
I don't personally think it should give people the justification to go and eat tons of pizzas and, you know, ice cream and all that stuff.
You know, cheating once in a while is fine.
But, like, I think that you can't – you definitely can't –
out you can out eat exercise in other words so you can't out exercise bed right exactly you can't exercise bad diet but i do think exercise is extremely important especially like there's different types of exercises that that was kind of another question you know the strength training versus like really going hard or or the long endurance training right so high intensity interval training you can kind of get away with doing less time but you're going really hard right you're pushing that and i am unapologetically an advocate of that
Yeah.
And that's where like if you're
In the context of aerobic training, I think that's also like there's a spectrum, right?
Like, well, what were they doing?
Were they able to talk?
You know, if they're really going hard.
Right.
You know, it really, it does make a difference with respect to your, how you're pushing that lever for, you know, insulin sensitivity and your glute transporters and them sort of translocating up to the muscle and opening the floodgates.
And so, yeah, it's nice to know.
In other words, there's many roads to roam.
And so...
I do.
I'm just trying to, you know, there's definitely a lot of diet wars out there.
And I do think it's important to keep in mind that biology is complicated.
There's a lot of things going on here.
And yes, having a low carb diet can be very beneficial for insulin sensitivity, for staving off insulin resistance.
But there's also people that are not going to eat a low carb diet and they can still be very metabolically healthy, particularly if they're avoiding refined carbohydrates, they're exercising, they're not overeating, they're not in a caloric surplus.
And then there's people that hear saturated fat's okay and they don't quite understand the whole context of it and they'll eat a lot of carbs with it.
And that's the worst case scenario where you're combining the two.
Right.
It's true.
I definitely want to get more into some of what you touched on, but I kind of want to just complete this, talk a little bit more about what's the underlying cause of insulin resistance.
We've talked about diet composition.
That's a big one.
What about meal frequency?
So how often you're eating, if you're a snacker, if you're when you're eating, if you're late night eating, or if you're a shift worker, how does that play a role?
Yeah.
Okay.
So the meal frequency, it sounds like the more each time you're having an insulin response, that insulin is then you're getting into the fat storage.
Right.
And the difference between, you know, this sugary type of like breakfast you're talking about and perhaps like something that's more of a complex carbohydrate would be the fiber is slowing that glucose response and causing some satiety as well.
So that would be something that you would contrast.
Not to mention even in that study in 2021, they probably were doing more complex carbohydrates and not.
Right.
I want to talk about you talked you sort of alluded to this and this has to do with the other contributing factors to insulin resistance.
And you're talking about this in the context of if you're late night eating, it can disrupt your sleep.
Yeah.
And, you know, for many reasons, you're also, you talked about some very interesting stuff that I hadn't really thought about before.
But also you're digesting, you know, when your systems are all activated.
Yeah, that's thermic effect of food.
Yeah, you're hot.
Exactly.
So, I mean, it makes perfect sense.
And, in fact, I remember a friend of mine, Dr. Sachin Panda, he's done a lot of research on time-restricted eating and he's got this app.
Um, my circadian clock where people were, you know, uploading pictures of their meals and it was timestamped and they're putting comments and like the most, one of the most common comments he was getting was, um, is disrupting sleep.
Eating later was disrupting sleep.
And finally it was like, like, he's like, got to look into this.
I mean, there's like,
you know, dozens of people talking about this.
And, and it's kind of funny when you kind of get that reverse thing that you're looking at when you're, when you get the data and then something else kind of pops.
Wow.
So eating late at night seems to be disrupting people's sleep.
And that's, that's, that's a real thing.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, it takes like, what, five, how many hours of digestion that's going on while you're asleep?
That's the one thing, sleep.
So you were talking about these fast causes of insulin resistance, inflammation, chronic stress, high cortisol.
Yeah.
and then the last one insulin right too much insulin where where does lack of sleep come into that because i have seen i've read studies and we were talking a little bit about this before before we you know started the podcast and that is first of all when i became a new parent and i was my just my sleep was entirely wrecked i mean just entirely wrecked i mean i aged like 10 years and like but for a good cause but a good cause i would do it all over again in a heartbeat um
My postprandial glucose, which is what I was monitoring at the time with my continuous glucose monitor, was... I mean, it was not my normal... I mean, I was pre-diabetic.
It was unreal.
And so I started looking into literature, and this was the most surprising thing.
When I wanted to wear a CGM, I was more like...
how is watermelon going to affect my glucose?
And I was more interested in the fruit and the, oh, look what a grape did.
This is insane.
And then it was like the disrupted sleep and everything else, nothing mattered anymore.
I was like, this is real.
Like, this is the real deal here.
And I started looking into the literature where sleep deprivation after one night, like half, you're getting four hours of sleep instead of eight, you can be insulin resistant the next day.
And I'm like, what?
Oh, yeah.
So I'd love to hear about that and how that's contributing to this, you know, fact cause of insulin.
So we're talking about other causes of insulin resistance.
You've also kind of looked into some of this other stuff that's very interesting with respect to environmental toxins and how particulate matter from air pollution, perhaps even plastic-associated chemicals or microplastics, how those can contribute.
Is that something that's meaningful?
The sleep deprivation, the cortisol sounds pretty meaningful.
Are these other, talk about it and whether or not they're pretty meaningful in the context.
Yeah, there are some more affordable HEPA filters now that do seem to kind of make a dent in reducing particulate matter.
But it's interesting that this air pollution is really, it seems like
pretty pervasive.
Like it's not just metabolic health, but it's Alzheimer's disease.
I mean, it seems like it's a cardiovascular disease.
I mean, it's really affecting lungs, of course, you know, respiratory health.
It's affecting so many different chronic diseases as well.
And so it is important to keep the context in perspective, right?
I mean, obviously diet, you know, exercise, these things are the most important when it comes to metabolic health.
But these other things matter.
They do, and not just for metabolic health, for a variety, just our overall health, right?
And it's interesting, I have winning smoking or vaping, vaping, right?
Do you think this is...
Coming down to nicotine or other things in the vape?
Yeah, right.
No, you have to let me know.
Before we get into some solutions here, I'd also love to touch on one more thing that you've also looked at with respect to other causes of insulin resistance and metabolic health, and that is commonly prescribed medications.
And this is something that I've witnessed firsthand and friends where...
They're, you know, metabolically healthy, lean, lean and metabolically healthy.
And they get on an antidepressant, for example, and all of a sudden gain a bunch of weight.
I mean, unbelievable amount of weight, you know, 30 to 40 pounds and are no longer metabolically healthy.
So there's a whole host of commonly prescribed medications out there from lipid lowering medications like statins to antidepressants and other neuropsychiatric disorders and medications that help with those disorders.
Is that something to be concerned about?
All right, so let's kind of shift gears and talk about some solutions here, protocols to maybe enhance insulin sensitivity.
We started this conversation talking about people who are a large population of people that are actually pre-pre-diabetic.
They might be on their way to insulin resistance or already insulin resistant and not even really know it.
What are some of the best strategies people can do now to really make a difference
And, you know, dietary strategies, you know, stress reduction, physical activity, but also how soon can they expect to see changes and what should they look at to see and monitor those changes?
Yeah.
I love the exercise snacks.
I like to do body weight squats.
That's something that I'll, you know, try to do after a meal, particularly when I'm on vacation and get the gelato that I never, ever, ever eat unless I'm in Rome.
But okay.
Well, that's great.
So many people ask about these supplements and, you know, are there these supplements that can improve insulin sensitivity?
So they
You know, you hear everything from magnesium to alpha-lipoic acid to berberine, apple cider vinegar.
And if there's any merit to that or taking it before a meal or is this just like dropping like a drop of water in the pool to like try to fill the pool up?
That's fascinating because when you're talking about the short chain fatty acid, you know, and I'm thinking, you know, acetate.
Yep.
So acetate, acetic acid, we're going from acid base.
I'm thinking of lactate, lactic acid, lactate, and that's when you're generating with exercise and lactate signaling.
is to AMP kinase, it's very much, you know, and then I'm thinking, well, is this like a short chain fatty acid sort of like, because they're signaling molecules, right?
They are.
And is there something that would be so interesting to look at to see if there's something going on with lactate, acetate, malate, right?
Like that's in like a Granny Smith apple or something like that, more sour apple, right?
Yep.
I mean, all these different short chain fatty acids, well, the short chain fatty acids that you're getting from foods, and then there's another, malate's also in like blueberries, right?
malic acid, malic acids in them.
So my wheels are turning here when you're mentioning that because it'd be so fascinating to see if there's a common mechanism.
Why is the acetic acid working?
We know lactate works too.
No, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting.
Ketone ketones are definitely signaling molecules.
And I also think there's a lot of overlap between lactate and beta hydroxybutyrate as well.
I mean, they're activating a lot of the same, like brain drive neurotrophic factor one, you know, um,
And, you know, I've had Dom D'Agostino on the podcast twice.
We talked a lot about ketogenic diets and, you know, Dr. Eric Verdin talked about them as well.
I do...
think they're not the easiest diet for people to follow for several reasons, including social too.
It's definitely restrictive.
But perhaps cycling them.
I've been interested in cycling it.
I've only done it a couple of times.
For me, it's also very hard to do
as well, but I'm interested in the brain benefits of ketones.
Do you think the dose matters?
So like, not only in respect to wanting the right dose of ketones to activate, you know, these beneficial signaling pathways, but also to make sure that you're not like
dipping too low like your glucose doesn't go too low where you're kind of like what's going on here yeah a little bit anxious a little bit yeah like you can get I can get you know when I haven't eaten for like many hours I like forget to eat because I'm so busy all of a sudden I'll start to get a little anxious and I'm like what's going on oh I haven't eaten you know it's
Yeah.
Right.
OK, well, let's talk a little bit more about, you know, fat.
And we kind of talked about this a little earlier about, you know, not all fat being equal.
And a lot of people are thinking about fat as just stored calories.
But I mean, there's much more to this picture.
Right.
So there's.
There are different ways we store fat, and there's the subcutaneous way, there's visceral fat.
These fats are not the same.
I know when you were talking about liver biopsies, you kept pointing to the abdominal region.
I was wondering if you were talking about you were getting visceral fat biopsies or probably not.
But can you talk a little bit about these different types of fat and what...
determines whether or not you're going to store fat subcutaneously versus viscerally.
Yeah.
Why visceral fat is so dangerous.
So with respect to these hyperplasia versus like hypertrophy fat cells, and I probably should have mentioned the visceral fat, the fat lining the organs, you mentioned the visceral cavities.
Yeah.
You mentioned the fact that the fat in the adipose tissue will become insulin resistant to basically shut down growth as a response, like adaptation.
Like, okay, we got to stop growing.
What about spillover of fat?
Like, is this feeding into that whole ceramide pathway that you started to talk about where is visceral fat and is this hypertrophy like swollen fat cell also causing more ceramides to go into your system?
And not to mention with the cytokine signaling, you're talking about now the chronic inflammation.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there's studies now linking visceral fat to cancer.
Yeah, that's right.
And so it's the brain, the cancer incidence, it's all... Atherosclerosis.
So you talked about genetics and, you know, someone's sex in terms of like male or female and how that affects whether or not they're going to have this, you know, predisposition to forming more fat cells or taking that fat cell and just expanding it.
What other factors play a role?
Because, I mean, you know...
Is there a dietary?
Is there some other factors that are also contributing to that?
Is that dose-dependent?
Like, are you going to get that if you're eating... I don't want people to be scared to eat, like, walnuts...
Is that is that the more because I, you know, I've looked a lot at the literature here.
And I remember I first was I was submitting a paper and I was going off about how terrible omega six high omega six.
And, you know, it wasn't necessarily from seed oil, but it was kind of going that way.
And and a reviewer just kind of just got me hard and I started to really have to look
at this with a different perspective and going to the literature.
And I really was shocked by how much of the literature is showing with these, you know, linoleic acid and even, you know, switching saturated fat with these polyunsaturated fat seed oils were either neutral or beneficial.
with the exception of like maybe one study, but like the bulk of them were not showing that.
And it wasn't until I started to really dive deep and see like, okay, it's like this heated seed oils.
And when you start to heat them, especially if you're like heating them very, very high temperatures or you're heating them over again-
Where they're becoming problematic, at least with respect to some of the biomarkers that were being looked at, like inflammatory biomarkers.
So I'm wondering, like, is the heating the seed oils the bigger problem than consuming them in this really concentrated form and heating them?
And the whole package that they're, you know, the friends that they're bringing along, right?
People are consuming these seed oils in processed foods, right?
They're all in processed foods versus eating some, like you said, meats, you know, walnut.
I mentioned nuts because they have a higher ratio, but they also, you know, have omega-3s as well.
So I do think it's a nuanced topic as well.
But I don't want people to, like, be so scared of just anything with linoleic acid.
Yeah, I think also it can be a distraction if you're if you're not focusing on like avoiding avoiding the refined carbohydrates, avoiding the refined sugars, making sure you're getting exercise, making sure you're not overeating, like all those things.
And then like I look, full disclosure, I don't cook with seed oils.
Yeah, I don't cook with them.
I don't use them.
Yeah.
But I will say that an unbiased look at the literature is.
I still think, I think cooking them, I think heating them, I would stay away from that for sure.
But if someone wants to put a little bit of, you know, of this uncooked oil on their salad, do I think it's like the worst thing in the world?
I'm not sure that it is.
Based on the current evidence.
But, you know, at the end of the day, I think that that person's probably already doing things right.
Yeah.
And that's really what matters.
Right.
I agree.
So that's kind of where I'm at.
Yeah, if there's a researcher doing that, I'll look into that.
But kind of going back to this fat cells and shrinking, and you were talking about the adipocytes kind of becoming insulin resistant first.
And that kind of leads into something that I forgot I wanted to ask you about as we were talking about some of this before.
And that is, you know, insulin resistance doesn't happen at the same time in all tissues, right?
And so it'd be kind of nice to just talk about that briefly while we continue on in terms of like the muscle, the adipose tissue, the liver.
What happens when each of those become insulin resistant?
And you also talked about adipose tissue maybe first.
Is that then contributing to the other ones then becoming insulin resistant?
Going back to this fat cell hyperplasia, forming lots of different fat cells versus this swelling of it, the hypertrophy.
If a person loses weight, let's say they're on a weight loss diet, they're restricting their calories, they're doing low carb, they're exercising, any of the combination of those.
What happens to the fat cells?
Do they shrink?
They shrink.
They shrink.
Do they ever die?
They do.
When people do lose weight and they're shrinking their fat cell size, are those fat cells, like, let's say someone was even insulin resistant, right?
And there was a problematic...
fat cell, and it shrinks in size, you lose weight, it shrinks in size, I mean, is it still problematic?
No.
With respect to the visceral fat, and I mean, particularly the visceral fat, since it's the fat that's really got that
Expansion of the fat cells.
Right.
Only going through hypertrophy.
What sort of targeted diet lifestyle interventions would be suggested or evidence-based to actually decrease the visceral fat?
Interesting.
So epinephrine, high intensity interval training is really like more intense exercise again, back to that.
And then, yeah, deliberate cold exposure is another one.
Great.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that's interesting.
I didn't know about the fact that epinephrine was linked to that as a mechanism.
Yeah.
Okay, so a little bit about, we talked a little bit about the muscle mass.
And I think just the one thing that was kind of on my mind was that sort of anabolic paradox of insulin.
Yeah.
And kind of what your thoughts are with respect to like, you know, some bodybuilders are injecting insulin, right?
I know, yeah.
So how...
Yeah, like, let's talk about a little bit, like, reconciling insulin's role as being this, you know, anabolic versus, you know, storing fat and being metabolically problematic.
No, I think I think that was a that's a really good.
Those are great points that you made for sure.
For sure.
I think we covered a lot of the muscle effects on insulin and how exercise is so important, growing muscle tissue and exercise is important for allowing the muscle to be that site of glucose disposal.
But let's kind of then shift gears and talk about this weight loss and exercise.
Obviously, I think right now there's a big trend in rapid weight loss and weight loss that's made very easy by taking GLP-1 agonist drugs, things like Ozembic and WeGoV.
And I'd love to know what your thoughts are on that.
Maybe first you can explain just generally how these GLP-1 agonists work and why they're causing weight loss and how they affect metabolic health, but also whether they're addressing the underlying root cause of obesity and obesity.
or if there's sort of shortcutting around that.
What is the dose range that you were referring to, talking about?
And two and a half milligrams being the low dose.
And, and,
The underlying, the dressing, obviously, these were used for, like you mentioned, this was a, you know, diabetes drug, right?
I mean, this wasn't necessarily meant to treat obesity.
Yeah, right.
But I guess that it all depends on, you know, the cause of obesity.
Overeating is partly a cause of obesity, so...
Milligram.
That's interesting that in your experience, people can do this microdose and after about 90 days, they can
keep the appetite regulation under control.
Because when you look at studies with people using the clinically relevant doses that they're using now of these different GLP-1 agonists, a lot of most of the people end up gaining weight back because they go back to their old habits.
Oh, I mean, absolutely.
The way you're thinking about something changes.
can change the outcome for sure.
I want to kind of go back to something that you mentioned that was very interesting to me and it has to do with the way, you know, this food is sitting in your gut and the way digestion's kind of changed and perhaps, you know, nutrient absorption.
I hadn't really thought about it in that way because what I'm sort of alluding to is
You know, I guess it's pretty well known now is that when people are rapidly losing weight, whether it's on a GLP-1 agonist or it's from caloric restriction, they can lose a lot of muscle along with the fat.
It's not just all fat.
Particularly if people are not getting enough dietary protein, which is a big signal for muscle protein synthesis.
And if they're not engaging in resistance training, which is the other very important signal for growing muscle mass.
So...
My question to you was going to be, you know, is there a kind of a way around this muscle loss by increasing dietary protein?
Obviously the resistance training would be key, perhaps even more key now because, you know, for one, if people aren't eating, I mean, I don't know how many meals a day people are eating.
It probably varies depending on the person and what their side effects and stuff are, but eating the protein and then like, are they absorbing all the protein?
I don't know if anyone's even looked at that, but that's interesting.
They're certainly not eating enough protein.
Yeah.
There's another interesting...
Yeah, that was my next question for you.
alzheimer's disease now and in you have to wonder like is is this a is there a direct effect of you know agonizing these glp-1 receptors on different tissues or is this just an indirect effect of weight loss and improved metabolic health right yeah yeah so i i don't know but we what i can speak to is our unpublished results right now in muscle cells we're treating them with varying doses of semaglutide at the higher doses
Okay.
Well, then this gets back to the microdosing.
And this is kind of, you know, I feel like you were talking about microdosing GLP-1 agonists for a very different reason than I'm going to ask you about now.
And you're talking about appetite regulation.
And I think that's...
It's super interesting, particularly for people who don't have real good control of their appetite or perhaps their I mean, who know their hormones are out of whack.
Right.
But there is now this sort of growing budding interest amongst, you know, many people about this.
potential GLP-1 agonist being a longevity drug because of these different, you know, outcome studies that have been observational in nature, right?
We're looking at correlation here.
But the question is, well, like, some people are now sort of starting to whisper about, we think now maybe these drugs are actually affecting, they're actually pro-longevity.
And so microdosing, you know, these drugs in the ranges that you were discussing earlier might be a way of
Getting the benefits.
And you're also getting the side effect benefit of appetite regulation.
So maybe you're not going to be eating as much as well.
Maybe it's just easier to not eat as much.
So, yeah, what you're saying essentially is that the improved metabolic health is probably what's driving the longevity benefits.
Yeah, I would agree.
That makes the most sense.
And it is important to obviously keep everything in context as well.
Obviously, there's people that are obese and metabolically unhealthy that have really just changed their lives, right?
But the question is,
Do they have to keep taking it?
On any dose of it or the high dose?
And this is after the weight loss and after being on the drug.
I think...
I mean, that's a pretty balanced view.
I think so too.
Yeah.
I mean, there's definitely more to discuss here, but we'd have to have another three-hour conversation.
So I kind of want to just circle back and end on, you know, you were talking about metabolic health being a predictor of longevity and, you know, there's metabolic health and inflammation is another one that I've seen where it predicts, which they're linked, right?
They're very much linked.
So-
if metabolic health is so important for longevity, and the opposite is true, right?
Where you're metabolically unhealthy, and that is essentially accelerating aging.
You mentioned something that kind of surprised me early on, and that is you were kind of talking about mechanisms by which insulin is so damaging, independent of glucose.
And I was sitting here thinking one of the main reasons why
being metabolically unhealthy, being insulin resistant is so unhealthy is because you're having high levels of glucose, which is glycating everything from your endothelial cells lining your blood vessels to your mitocardium.
Your skin.
Your skin, proteins, DNA, lipids, everything's getting stiffer and damaged.
What are the mechanisms that are involved here with accelerating aging and- Just the glucose alone, yeah.
Well, yeah, in general.
Is it the glucose alone or what else?
What do you do with the type 1 diabetic, though?
Wow.
I was just sort of thinking about prunes because prunes are like high in sorbitol.
I also like how you're talking about this insulin-centric sort of model of how that's really the most damaging.
And it really is.
When you think about insulin, you know, shutting down, I mean...
I guess I should say that another way.
When you think about insulin's role in activating AKT, which then is shutting down all these stress response pathways, everything from autophagy to making stem cells to just everything being shut down by the action of this one hormone.
I think I told you this on a phone call where...
Again, one of my first, you know, experiments as a young biologist.
I was a chemist before I was a biologist.
So I had a previous... You had an evolution.
Yeah, yeah.
I was like lots and lots of chemistry and peptide synthesis and stuff.
And then I was... It's funny, as a chemistry major at UCSD...
there's only a little bit of biology requirements.
So I didn't really have vast experience in biology until I graduated from UCSD with my degree in chemistry, biochemistry, then decided I was kind of like, I don't know that this is really what I want.
I'm gonna like go work for a little bit.
And I went to the Salk Institute in La Jolla and started working in an aging lab.
And again, one of my first experiments was
What happens when you shut down the insulin signaling pathway in these little nematode worms that share a lot of homologous genes with humans, including the insulin receptor and IGF-1 receptor.
And it was so clear to me that when you...
decreased the insulin signaling in these little worms, you doubled their life expectancy.
Exactly.
Doubled it.
15 days to 30 days, boom, like that.
And their health span, I mean, you look at these worms and you get to know them after about 15 days.
You name them.
They're like, yeah, you name them.
And you see as they're reaching after a week, they start to move slower.
And then they get old, like we do.
They get old.
They move less.
It's very clear.
when you shut down insulin signaling, that doesn't happen.
They're youthful, they're moving around like they're young worms when they're supposed to be dead already.
And that was like,
Okay.
So let's talk about these key biomarkers for aging, like from a metabolic perspective.
What do you think would be the most indicative of biological aging and what biomarkers are good to look at?
And just for general metabolic health, would you add in some of the HbA1c and
you know, maybe ApoB.
So you mentioned LDL.
I mean, they don't even directly measure LDL.
They don't.
ApoB would be obviously a more direct measure, but then looking also at particle size, which I again think is important.
It's the small dense LDL particles.
Okay, great.
I think if you could leave people with just one practical takeaway about insulin, about their metabolic health, how they can improve their life, their health span in the long run, what would it be?
So you want to extend that state where you're basically improving insulin sensitivity.
What if you eat dinner early?
Is it as- Awesome way to do it too.
Great.
Yeah.
I mean, I probably should have mentioned this earlier when we were talking about the late night snacking, but the fact that melatonin shuts down insulin production in the pancreatic beta cells is probably... Yeah, hyperglycemia disrupts melatonin too.
Oh, interesting.
So it's like a two-way thing here.
Well, this has been a very enlightening conversation, Ben.
Thank you so much for coming on this show and talking to me about all things and getting uncomfortable at times.
I really appreciate it.
My pleasure.
People, so you mentioned your book.
Oh, is it out already?
Oh, okay, so you're writing a third book.
I see, okay.
And then benbickman.com is your website where people can find all things.
You have a YouTube channel.
And you're on social media too.
You're active on X. I am, yeah.
Thanks again to Dr. Ben Bickman for bringing such clarity and depth to the conversation around insulin, metabolic health, and longevity.
His insights are always nuanced, actionable, and firmly grounded in science.
You can find out more about his work and his research at benbickman.com.
And before you go, if today's discussion piqued your curiosity or if you're hungry for more, you'll probably enjoy my weekly research newsletter.
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If topics like brain health, longevity, exercise, and nutrition are your thing,
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Thanks so much for listening and I'll talk to you soon.
Dr. Rhonda Patrick here.
Today we're going to go deep on coffee.
We've spent the last month or so reading through all of the latest research on coffee.
And in this episode, I'm going to tell you everything you need to know about how to get the maximum health and longevity benefits while minimizing the negative side effects.
The good news is that coffee can slow down your epigenetic aging clock, drop cardiovascular risk, and sharpen cognition.
But how you source your coffee, how you brew it, and how you time it makes a big difference.
And if done the wrong way, coffee can raise LDL, disrupt sleep, and you'll miss out on some of the benefits I just mentioned.
So in this episode, we'll answer questions like how coffee actually slows down aging and how to maximize those benefits, which beans and roast levels are healthiest, why a paper filter matters for cholesterol and cancer risk, the best way to source and store your beans to avoid mold in your coffee, the exact caffeine dose for endurance, strength, and mental focus.
which supplement you can take to reduce some of the side effects of coffee, such as the jitters, whether cream can blunt some of the positive benefits of coffee, and much more.
By the end of this episode, you'll know how to turn coffee into a precise, science-backed protocol for longer life, better metabolism, and peak brain performance.
So let's get started.
Science increasingly demonstrates that coffee actively slows biological aging.
It protects cells from damage and helps the body adapt to stress, effectively slowing down aging at the cellular level.
Biological aging is not just counting the chronological age.
It's the actual rate at which your cells and tissues deteriorate, your DNA accumulates damage, and your body becomes more vulnerable to disease.
One powerful way scientists measure this biological aging is through something called epigenetic age.
how genes turn on and off as we age, reflecting the functional state of cells or tissues relative to chronological age.
The faster your epigenetic clock runs, the quicker you age and the sooner diseases of aging appear.
But here's the fascinating part.
Drinking coffee appears to actively slow this biological aging process.
In fact, multiple large-scale studies show that regular coffee drinkers have significantly younger epigenetic age signatures compared to non-drinkers, meaning their DNA isn't just healthier, it literally behaves as if it's younger.
For example, a recent analysis of nearly 16,000 people identified consistent changes in DNA methylation.
These are the chemical marks controlling gene activity.
at 11 distinct sites closely tied to inflammation, metabolism, and the aging process itself.
In another comprehensive U.S.
health survey, researchers found that each additional cup of coffee corresponded to about 0.12 years younger biological age.
Even more strikingly, people who consumed three or more cups per day had a 34 to 41 percent lower chance of accelerated biological aging compared to non-drinkers.
In a separate multi-ethnic study using advanced epigenetic clocks further supported this.
So regular coffee intake correlated with roughly 0.7 to a full year reduction in epigenetic age for each daily cup consumed.
This effect appeared consistently across multiple robust measures of biological aging.
Now, it's important to mention these are observational studies, which means they can't prove direct causation yet.
But the consistency across numerous rigorous analyses strongly suggests that coffee's bioactive components, things like the chlorogenic acids, caffeine, and antioxidants formed during roasting are actively reshaping our epigenome.
In other words, coffee may be literally rewiring our genetic expression to slow down aging at the cellular level, potentially extending health span, and consistent, robust scientific evidence does show regular coffee drinkers do actually live longer.
And not only that, they also experience lower rates of the deadliest chronic diseases like heart disease, diabetes, and even certain cancers.
We now know coffee impacts nearly every major biological mechanism underlying aging and chronic disease.
First of all, coffee drinkers consistently have up to a 27% lower risk of dying from any cause than non-coffee drinkers.
This translates to almost two extra years of life.
And even decaf coffee delivers a similar benefit.
So this really suggests that compounds beyond caffeine like polyphenols and the chlorogenic acids do act as powerful anti-aging agents.
For decades, coffee was actually thought to be bad for the heart.
Turns out that was wrong.
Coffee significantly reduces cardiovascular disease risk by about 10% to 15%.
Coffee consumption protects against heart attacks, stroke, and cardiovascular-related death.
And here's where it gets even crazier.
Contrary to expectations, since coffee is generally contraindicated for arrhythmias, caffeine uniquely appears to reduce the risk of developing arrhythmias.
And this was in a dose-dependent manner with two to three cups of daily coffee linked to 12% lower arrhythmia risk and four to five cups associated with a 17% lower risk.
Decaf doesn't offer this arrhythmia protection, which really highlights caffeine's unique role in somehow stabilizing heart rhythms.
Most people reach for the cup of coffee in the morning.
When you drink your coffee actually matters.
Recent large-scale studies tell us something pretty fascinating.
People who consume their coffee exclusively in the morning show significant longevity benefits compared to those who spread caffeine throughout the day.
Specifically, morning coffee drinkers experience a 12% lower risk of death from all causes and an impressive 31% lower risk of cardiovascular-related death compared to non-coffee drinkers.
Spreading your coffee throughout the day, so in the morning, afternoon, and evening, didn't show the same health benefits.
The protective effect seems unique to starting your day with coffee rather than drinking it continuously throughout the day.
So why the morning?
It really comes down largely to circadian biology, the internal clock governing our sleep-awake cycles, hormone release, metabolism.
So caffeine consumed late in the day powerfully disrupts this clock.
There's controlled laboratory studies that show that caffeine taken within about three hours of natural bedtime shifts the internal clock later by roughly 45 minutes to an hour.
So this is like giving yourself a mini dose of jet lag every day.
The result delayed melatonin release, disrupted sleep patterns, reduced deep sleep quality, and ultimately compromised health.
But caffeine consumed early in the day actually works with your natural circadian rhythm.
It supports alertness, it reinforces stable cortisol timing, and it may help anchor your internal clock, optimizing your metabolism and cardiovascular health.
So there seems to be a clear takeaway protocol for coffee timing.
Consuming caffeine early, so aiming to stop caffeine at least eight to 10 hours before your natural bedtime.
For most people, that means cutting off caffeine around noon or the early afternoon.
You also want to keep it moderate.
So two to three cups of coffee in the morning is ideal.
This range provides maximum protective benefits without negative circadian disruption.
You can also drink decaf coffee afternoon.
So if you love the taste of coffee, there's a little bit of a placebo effect as well.
You get these benefits from the polyphenols if you drink the coffee later in the day.
So you can actually choose decaf to avoid interfering with your sleep quality.
So in short, early caffeine intake seems to really align well with biological rhythms.
It enhances cognitive performance during the day, protects against cardiovascular disease, and it maximizes coffee's powerful longevity benefits.
But you don't want to continuously keep drinking it all throughout the day.
Coffee also has powerful effects on metabolism, particularly the body's ability to regulate glucose and fat utilization.
Regular coffee drinking, especially around two to three cups per day, consistently reduces the risk of developing metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes.
In fact, studies show that drinking two to three cups of coffee daily can cut diabetes risk by as much as 60%.
But why does coffee have such a profound metabolic benefit?
One reason appears to be its ability to activate AMP kinase or AMPK for short.
This is a central metabolic regulator inside of our cells.
It's activated when we're in a fasted state, in a caloric deficit, after intense exercise or metabolic stress.
Compounds in coffee like caffeine and the chlorogenic acids can actually flip that AMPK switch on.
And that controls how our cells process energy, how it manages glucose levels, and how our cells handle fats.
When AMP kinase turns on, it tells the cell to burn fat, take up glucose, shut down growth pathways like mTOR.
So by boosting AMP kinase activity, coffee actually helps the body become more efficient at using energy and maintaining healthier blood sugar levels.
Chronic mild AMPK activation is a leading explanation, but it's not the only one.
Improved gut microbiome composition, reduced inflammation, enhanced fat oxidation also play roles as well.
There's a bit of a twist here because coffee can acutely raise fasting blood glucose in some individuals and may slightly decrease insulin sensitivity in the short term, largely via acute sympathetic activation.
But the overall long-term effect is protective.
It improves glucose tolerance, reduces triglyceride levels, and lowers long-term diabetes risk.
So coffee seems to make our metabolic machinery healthier, more responsive, and better able to protect itself against age-related metabolic disease.
Believe it or not, coffee used to be labeled a potential carcinogen from the 1990s to about 2016.
That was wrong.
The label rested on weak, confounded evidence.
But acrylamide was really at the heart of it.
Acrylamide is a chemical form naturally when coffee beans are roasted, as well as during the cooking of starchy foods at high temperatures.
Although acrylamide has caused cancer in lab animals at very high doses,
The levels typically found in coffee pose a minimal risk to humans.
One standard brewed cup delivers roughly two to five micrograms of acrylamide.
You'd need to drink 25 to 50 cups a day to hit the conservative reference level, which is around two micrograms per kilogram body weight per day.
What we now know is that coffee does not increase your cancer risk.
In fact, it probably reduces it, particularly for certain major cancers, including liver cancer, endometrial cancer, and skin cancer.
The evidence here is compelling.
Each daily cup of coffee you drink is associated with roughly a 15% to 20% reduction in liver cancer risk and about a 10% lower risk of endometrial cancer, with maximum benefits seen around four to five cups per day.
Even the International Agency for Research on Cancer recently acknowledged coffee's protective role, officially removing coffee from their list of possible carcinogens.
Cancer is the second leading cause of death in the United States, and it is the leading cause of death in Canada, Japan, and many Western European Union states.
So it is important to pay attention to.
Why does coffee have these powerful anti-cancer effects?
Well, coffee doesn't just have antioxidant properties.
it actively reduces DNA damage.
This is one of the fundamental triggers of cancer.
A compelling randomized controlled trial demonstrated that people drinking dark roast coffee daily had a 23% reduction in their DNA double-stranded breaks compared to water alone.
Now, DNA double-stranded breaks are among the most severe forms of genetic damage.
To give you context,
This is the type of damage you typically see from ionizing radiation, the kind that directly threatens your genetic code and your chromosomes, the structures that house your DNA.
And this is not just the DNA integrity at stake.
Chromosomal damage directly accelerates the shortening of telomeres.
These are the tiny caps that protect our chromosomes from damage, our DNA that's packaged in our chromosomes.
And telomeres naturally shorten with age, but damage accelerates this process dramatically.
And once the telomeres become critically short, our cells then enter a state known as senescence.
This is kind of a cellular aging that not only drives the aging process itself, but also greatly increases our risk for chronic diseases, including cancer.
By actively reducing DNA double stranded breaks, coffee may not only protect against cancer directly, but also may help maintain telomere length, thereby potentially slowing cellular aging and preserving genomic stability.
And in fact, studies have found that regular coffee drinkers do have longer telomeres compared to non-coffee drinkers.
Mechanistically, coffee triggers our cells to activate something called NRF2.
This is a master cellular switch that ramps up our body's own antioxidant defenses, including glutathione.
This is enhancing our natural capacity for DNA repair.
But coffee's protective effects go even broader.
It also influences liver metabolism, hormone regulation, and inflammation, all critical in preventing cancers that thrive on metabolic dysfunction or hormone imbalance.
Interestingly, decaffeinated coffee consistently shows similar protective effects, which strongly suggests that beneficial compounds beyond caffeine, such as polyphenols and the melanoidins, are primarily driving these anti-cancer benefits.
Coffee's health effects may actually start in the gut.
Each cup of coffee delivers up to 2 grams of soluble fiber, plus a pharmacy of polyphenols, chlorogenic acids, melanoidins, diterpenes, and trigonellin.
In a 23,000-person Nature Microbiology dataset, coffee was the single strongest dietary factor shaping the microbiome, enriching 115 bacterial species.
One Lawsonibacter species shows up almost exclusively in habitual coffee drinkers, essentially acting as a microbial coffee fingerprint.
What this bacterial species actually does is ferments coffee fiber and polyphenols into bioactive compounds.
such as quinic acid conjugates and short-chain fatty acids.
Short-chain fatty acids tighten gut barrier integrity, dampen inflammation, and improve insulin sensitivity.
And the quinic acid metabolites flip on the NRF2 switch for antioxidant activity, and in animal models, even lower PCSK9, which is a regulator of LDL cholesterol clearance.
This is early data, but intriguing for heart health.
So randomized controlled trials actually back this up.
Three cups of filtered coffee per day for eight weeks increased bifidobacterium and fecaly bacterium abundance.
These are both major short chain fatty acid producers.
And it did this without harming gut microbial diversity.
So parallel rodent work shows that coffee melidoidins actually thicken the mucus layer and it suppresses opportunistic pathogens from taking hold in the gut.
And coffee dose does matter.
The sweet spot appears to be two to four cups a day.
That range reliably enriches short-chain fatty acid-producing bacteria while keeping the pro-inflammatory strains in check.
Go much higher and the data gets noisy and diversity shifts are study dependent.
So I think the key takeaway here is that coffee, caffeinated or decaffeinated, acts as a prebiotic matrix.
It has fibers, melanoidins, and polyphenols that feed the gut ecosystem that in turn generate metabolites linked to lower inflammation, better cholesterol handling, and neuroprotection.
So the next time you're having your coffee, remember, you're not just stimulating your brain, you're actually feeding an entire microbial network in your gut that may be central to coffee's longevity signal.
There is an important nuance when it comes to coffee's health benefits, such as the cancer protective effects.
Brewing method does matter.
Most studies show clear cancer protection involved filtered coffee.
Boiled or unfiltered methods like the French press or espresso
allow oily compounds called diterpenes to enter our cup of coffee.
At higher consumption levels, these diterpenes have been associated with slightly elevated risk of certain cancers, such as pancreatic cancer and respiratory tract cancers.
So why does brewing method have such a profound impact on health outcomes?
It comes down to two key groups of coffee compounds.
On the one hand, coffee is rich in polyphenols.
These are powerful antioxidants that can lower dementia risk by as much as 50% and reduce DNA damage.
This is a critical precursor to cancer by around 23%.
On the other hand, coffee also contains these fat-soluble diterpenes.
If not filtered out, the diterpenes
can significantly raise LDL cholesterol by as much as 30 milligrams per deciliter within just a few weeks.
This elevates cardiovascular risk.
Regardless of one's perspective on LDL's role in cardiovascular disease, there is no reason coffee should be raising your LDL by this much.
So this is best avoided if possible.
To fully optimize coffee's health benefits, we need to understand how different brewing methods dramatically change its chemical makeup and ultimately its impact on our health.
Coffee contains two critical types of compounds we're going to focus on.
First, diterpenes, specifically caftol and kiwiol.
These are fat-soluble molecules that naturally are found in coffee beans.
The problem with these diterpenes is that they significantly raise LDL cholesterol.
In fact, studies have found that people who regularly drink unfiltered coffee, like from French press, espresso, or boiled coffee, it can raise their LDL levels by roughly 10 to 30 milligrams per deciliter within just a few weeks.
And that does increase cardiovascular disease risk.
There's also links between higher diterpene exposure from unfiltered coffee with slightly elevated risk of certain cancers.
Second and more beneficially, coffee beans are rich in polyphenols, primarily the chlorogenic acids.
Polyphenols are powerful antioxidants that reduce inflammation, oxidative stress, protect us from chronic diseases.
Unlike diterpenes, polyphenols are water-soluble, so they dissolve in water and easily pass through paper filters.
Here's why this chemical difference matters.
Brewing methods dictate how much these compounds end up in our coffee.
Unfiltered methods like espresso, French press, boiled coffee, or stovetop percolators retain the oily diterpenes.
For perspective, espresso contains around 1,100 milligrams of kafstal per liter.
Turkish boiled coffee contains around 900 milligrams per liter, while French press and mocha pots contain 70 to 90 milligrams per liter.
Practically, that means one espresso shot has about 30 milligrams of cafestol and a typical cup of coffee from other unfiltered methods have between 10 and 200 milligrams.
In contrast, filtered coffees like traditional paper drip, instant cold brew, trap these diterpenes in the filter, essentially eliminating their negative effects while still preserving beneficial polyphenols.
Recent studies have shown that even workplace coffee machines, which usually lack proper filtration, deliver significantly higher diterpene concentrations, between 140 to 170 milligrams per liter, compared to filtered coffee prepared at home, which often shows undetectable levels.
As a side note, I do want to mention that many traditional paper drip coffee machines do run hot water through plastic.
So if you are going to do a filtered coffee, pour over is probably your best bet, doing something into a glass container and not having the hot water touch plastic.
Just something to keep in mind.
Now, what about the antioxidants which significantly contribute to the health benefits of coffee?
The story shifts here a little bit.
Espresso actually tops the chart in antioxidant activity per volume.
This is because it has a very intense extraction.
Cold brew also ranks very highly because of its extended brewing duration.
French press and percolators provide moderate antioxidant levels, while filtered drip and instant coffee, though slightly lower, still offer substantial antioxidant benefits.
But antioxidants don't depend solely on brewing methods.
They're also influenced by bean type, roast level, how the beans are grown, and brewing temperature.
First, let's consider the two major coffee species, Arabica and Robusta.
Arabica beans are generally preferred for flavor.
They contain less caffeine, so about half as much.
And there's somewhat fewer chlorogenic acids.
Those are the key antioxidant than Robusta beans.
Robusta beans are higher in caffeine, higher in the chlorogenic acids, and they deliver more potent antioxidant effects and stronger mental stimulation.
But they also tend to taste more bitter and earthy.
But origin matters too.
Where and how coffee is grown also influences its biochemical makeup in important ways.
So altitude does matter.
Beans grown at higher altitude elevations, like those from Colombia's high altitude regions,
mature slowly, leading to a sweeter, brighter flavor and less caffeine and antioxidant density compared to beans grown at lower altitudes.
Sun exposure and latitude matter, so coffee beans from regions near the equator, like Ethiopia or Kenya,
typically develop higher concentrations of antioxidants like the chlorogenic acids as protection against intense sunlight and environmental stress.
So it's an adaptation.
It's kind of a stress response that the coffee bean plant is producing more of these antioxidants.
Soil-type matters, so mineral-rich volcanic soils found in regions like Guatemala and Colombia, influence coffee bean composition.
It enhances the sweetness and complex flavors due to the elevated sucrose and lipid content.
And processing techniques, washed versus natural, also matter.
So how beans are processed after harvesting can affect their fermentation, amino acid levels, and how antioxidants form during the roasting process.
This directly influences their final biochemical composition and also their health potential.
So practically speaking...
I think the best way to choose a coffee bean, if your goal is higher antioxidants, cognitive enhancement, maximum caffeine kick, you might want to lean towards Robusta beans or as a second best bean grown closer to the equator, like a coffee from Ethiopia or Kenya.
If you prefer milder stimulation, a sweeter taste, slightly lower caffeine, then a higher altitude Arabica like those from Colombia or Ethiopia would be ideal.
Remember that roasting and brewing methods can also dramatically influence the final antioxidant content in coffee.
It generally peaks around medium roast.
A darker roast reduces antioxidant levels regardless of species, and brewing methods like paper-filtered coffee will remove most of the cholesterol-raising diterpenes,
and they'll leave most of the polyphenols there no matter where your beans are from.
Finally, brewing temperature also does play a role.
Really hot brewing methods like espresso or drip brewing quickly extract antioxidants due to the higher temperatures and shorter brew times.
Cold brewing, while lower in temperature, can reach comparable antioxidant levels if it's steeped long enough.
So this is typically 12 to 24 hours.
But hot methods generally yield higher concentrations per serving.
So here's how to translate all this science into a smarter coffee shopping decision.
You want to focus on three variables, species, origin, and roast.
First, if you want maximal antioxidants, a Robusta dominant blend is your highest yield option.
Robusta beans contain about 60% more chlorogenic acids than Arabica.
If you prefer the flavor of Arabica, choose lots grown near the equator at high elevation.
Think altitude, Ethiopia, Kenya.
because equatorial sunlight and slow maturation will boost the polyphenol density well above lower latitude arabicas from, say, Colombia or Peru.
And finally, keep the roast in the light to medium range.
That window preserves the greatest fraction of chlorogenic acids, whereas dark roasts burn off a significant portion of those antioxidants.
So given everything we've discussed so far, it might not surprise you that the brewing method you choose can dramatically influence coffee's health impact.
But what's truly fascinating and maybe surprising is just how distinct these outcomes can be depending on how you prepare your coffee.
Filtered coffee consistently stands out as the best choice for longevity and overall health.
A major cohort study found that regularly drinking filtered coffee was linked to about a 15% lower all-cause mortality compared to drinking no coffee at all.
Similarly, regular consumption of filtered coffee around two to five cups per day is strongly associated with a 20% lower risk of cardiovascular-related mortality compared to drinking no coffee at all.
Neither of these protective associations were observed with unfiltered coffee methods like French press, likely due to their cholesterol-raising diterpenes.
And when it comes to cognitive health, the data is even more striking.
Consistently drinking filtered coffee can lower your dementia risk by as much as 50% compared to not drinking coffee.
But these benefits diminish sharply or even reverse when using unfiltered brewing methods, particularly when consuming extreme quantities of coffee.
For instance, heavy consumption of boiled coffee, like Turkish coffee, we're talking extreme, around eight cups or more per day, is linked to a nearly double risk of dementia compared to moderate drinkers, likely due to those diterpenes, which I mentioned earlier, they're raising LDL cholesterol.
High intake of boiled coffee also shows potential association with increased risk for specific cancers, as mentioned earlier, pancreatic cancer, respiratory tract cancers as well.
So it really highlights the need for moderation and caution when you're drinking boiled coffee.
You don't want to go to that extreme level of drinking eight cups per day.
I would say given the otherwise strong evidence for coffee's anti-dementia effects at more normal doses, either excessive intake itself or specifically boiled coffee is likely the culprit here with respect to increased dementia risk.
Because as I mentioned earlier, filtered coffee is associated with as much as a 50% lower dementia risk compared to not drinking coffee.
Now, espresso is somewhat of a special case.
While espresso does still contain those cholesterol-raising diterpenes, moderate espresso consumption, like two to three servings daily, remains strongly associated with a lower overall mortality, likely due to its exceptionally high antioxidant density per ounce.
Espresso's robust polyphenol content might actually balance out some of the diterpene-related downsides, providing that you're maintaining a moderate consumption of espresso.
Instant coffee, which is often overlooked, actually holds up remarkably well against filtered coffee.
Studies consistently find that instant coffee drinkers also benefit from a lower all-cause mortality as well as a significant protection against diabetes and cognitive decline.
That's probably because instant coffee also has high antioxidant levels similar to traditionally brewed coffee.
So to sum it up, filtered coffee really emerges as the best way to brew coffee.
It offers the strongest, most consistent health benefits across cardiovascular, metabolic, cognitive, and longevity outcomes.
Espresso and instant coffee also provide substantial protective effects at moderate consumption levels.
Unfiltered methods, especially boiled coffee or very heavy French press consumption, require greater caution due to their cholesterol-raising diterpenes
And at very, very extreme high levels, eight cups or more a day, potential cognitive risks, even though moderate intake probably still offers beneficial polyphenols and antioxidants.
And coffee's health benefits extend far beyond just its caffeine content.
And that really challenges a major assumption that many people hold, that caffeine alone drives coffee's benefits.
But the story shifts dramatically when we look at neurological outcomes like cognitive decline and neurodegenerative diseases.
This is where caffeine clearly takes center stage.
Regular caffeinated coffee drinkers, typically those consuming around three or more cups per day, show a remarkable 34 to 37 percent reduction in the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease compared to non-drinkers.
Even moderate caffeine intake, about two cups per day or around 200 milligrams daily, shows
noticeably slows cognitive decline, particularly in people already showing signs of mild cognitive impairment.
This is a common precursor to Alzheimer's disease.
Interestingly, genetically predicted higher caffeine levels in the bloodstream have also been linked to lower Alzheimer's disease risk, suggesting caffeine itself might directly influence brain aging.
The neuroprotective effects of caffeine can be traced directly to its unique biological mechanism of action.
Caffeine functions as a competitive antagonist at adenosine A2A and A1 receptors.
The A2A subtype is especially critical here because these receptors are densely expressed along the indirect pathway of our basal ganglia.
This is a key brain region that's involved in motor control and movement regulation.
By blocking A2A receptors, caffeine reduces the excessive inhibitory signaling that's characteristic of Parkinson's disease, simultaneously boosting dopamine D2 receptor activity.
Animal studies reinforce this mechanistic picture.
So chronic blockade of the A2A receptors with caffeine increases
consistently reduces neuroinflammation.
It limits harmful aggregation of alpha-signuclein.
This is a hallmark of Parkinson's disease.
And it also preserves mitochondrial function in dopamine-producing neurons.
The clinical relevance is pretty striking in that some Parkinson's drugs now specifically target
these same A2A receptors.
The precise molecular action of A2A receptors could explain why caffeine delivers unique neurological benefits that decaffeinated coffee does not replicate.
So if you're wanting to preserve your cognitive function, if protecting your brain is a primary goal, caffeinated coffee clearly emerges as the superior choice.
Now, beyond just protecting your brain against long-term neurodegenerative diseases, caffeine is also a powerful, rapid-acting cognitive enhancer.
At moderate doses, roughly 100 to 300 milligrams per day, or about one to three cups of coffee, it reliably boosts attention, improves working memory, speeds up reaction times by about 10 to 15%, and enhances overall cognitive performance, especially when you're tired or at those less optimal times of the day, like early morning or the mid-afternoon slump.
How does caffeine achieve these immediate cognitive improvements?
It all comes back to adenosine.
So as you stay awake, adenosine builds up, binding to specific receptors A1 and A2 in the brain, slowing down neural activity and increasing sleep pressure.
Caffeine blocks these receptors, essentially removing that break, allowing the brain circuits associated with alertness and attention, you know, powered by neurotransmitters like dopamine and norepinephrine and acetylcholine to become more active.
And the result is greater mental clarity, quicker thinking, reduced feelings of fatigue.
But caffeine is not the whole story.
Coffee contains several other bioactive compounds, particularly the polyphenols like the chlorogenic acids that independently benefit the brain, even without caffeine.
Decaffeinated coffee, which preserves these polyphenols, can still improve blood flow and oxygen delivery to active brain regions during challenging tasks.
This is a process called neurovascular coupling.
Polyphenols also increase levels of brain-derived neurotrophic factor, or BDNF, which is an essential growth factor for neuroplasticity, for learning and memory.
So for example, studies have shown that a single serving of coffee fruit extract can boost circulating BDNF levels by over 140%.
In addition, these coffee polyphenols act as antioxidants and anti-inflammatory agents, activating protective cellular pathways like NRF2 and reducing inflammation promoting ones like NF-kappa B. And this helps maintain vascular health and neuronal integrity.
So practically speaking, achieving these polyphenol-driven cognitive benefits typically requires around 400 to 800 milligrams of the chlorogenic acids per day, which is roughly found in about two cups of medium roast filtered coffee.
Interestingly, a small amount of caffeine, around 75 milligrams to 100 milligrams, actually seems to improve your body's absorption of these polyphenols, creating a beneficial synergy.
Higher caffeine doses might narrow blood vessels constriction, slightly counteracting some of the vascular benefits.
So again, moderation remains key.
And while caffeine clearly drives many of coffee's immediate cognitive enhancements and long-term neuroprotective effects, the rich blend of other bioactive compounds in coffee does deliver meaningful brain benefits even without caffeine.
Decaf won't match caffeine's potential impact on adenosine signaling, but it does remain a valuable option if you prefer to avoid caffeine and you still want to have
some brain supportive effects.
Now let's talk about caffeine and physical performance, what the data says, how to use caffeine optimally, and when you're getting too much.
So first off, caffeine is arguably the most studied and reliable performance enhancer available.
It consistently improves performance across endurance sports,
strength training, and cognitive tasks requiring focus and reaction speed.
So how much caffeine do you actually need?
The science points to a dose range of about three to six milligrams of caffeine per kilogram of your body weight.
Practically speaking, if you weigh about 70 kilograms or 155 pounds, that's roughly 200 to 400 milligrams of caffeine or about one to four cups of coffee, depending on how strong your coffee is.
Lower end doses, around three milligrams per kilogram body weight, are effective for most people,
But higher doses, up to 6 milligrams per kilogram body weight, might be necessary if you're habituated to caffeine.
In endurance events like running, cycling, swimming, you typically see about a 3% to 5% improvement in performance.
In strength or power-based activities, caffeine reliably boosts strength output and muscular endurance by about 2% to 4%.
And even again, cognitive skills, focus, reaction time, attention, these get about 10 to 15% bump from a modest caffeine dose of about 100 to 150 milligrams.
Caffeine peaks in your bloodstream around 45 to 60 minutes after ingestion.
And the performance enhancing effects do last about two to four hours.
So keep this timing in mind to maximize its benefits, especially for competition or intense workouts, or if you're looking for that mental pump.
There's a clear ceiling to caffeine's benefits.
Going beyond 400 milligrams rarely provides additional performance gains and frequently increases negative effects like anxiety, jitters, increased heart rate, digestive issues, and crucially, sleep disruption.
So consuming caffeine later than about eight hours before your bedtime will cut into your sleep quality, undermining training adaptations and recovery.
Unfortunately, decaf coffee does not have the same performance benefits.
Studies consistently show decaf coffee is essentially equivalent to placebo for physical performance.
Decaf coffee does provide beneficial polyphenols, and there's a variety of health benefits that we've already discussed.
But if you're looking for this documented ergogenic physical performance enhancement,
caffeine itself is necessary.
If you are wanting to harness some of the ergogenic effects from your coffee, you might aim for a dose around 1.5 to 2 cups of coffee and consume it around 45 minutes to 60 minutes before your event or your training.
If you use caffeine daily, periodically taking short breaks anywhere between two to seven days can actually resensitize you to caffeine, making caffeine more effective when you return to it.
And again, it's very wise for most people to stop consuming caffeine at least 8 to 10 hours before bedtime.
You want to protect your sleep.
You want your sleep quality to be good, and you want to be able to recover.
For general health, longevity, and even cancer prevention, both caffeinated and decaffeinated coffee do offer substantial benefits.
Regular consumption of either type of coffee is consistently associated with impressive reductions in chronic disease risk, including lower rates of cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, and certain cancers.
And importantly, studies reassure us that neither caffeinated nor decaffeinated coffee increases cancer risk.
Instead, these protective benefits largely stem from coffee's rich, complex blend of polyphenols, antioxidants, and other bioactive compounds, not just caffeine itself.
But if you do drink decaf coffee, it's important to be aware of how the caffeine was removed.
Most decaffeination processes use chemical solvents like methylene chloride or ethyl acetate.
Methylene chloride, for example, can sound concerning.
It's industrially used in paint strippers.
But the levels permitted in coffee are extremely low and strictly regulated, generally far below any threshold considered harmful by the FDA.
Ethyl acetate is sometimes called natural because it occurs in fruits, is similarly safe at these tiny residual concentrations.
Independent testing consistently shows actual residues of these solvents in commercial decaf coffee are often undetectable or far lower than the FDA's already stringent standards, which is reassuring.
But if you do prefer to avoid chemical solvents entirely, there are excellent alternatives.
The Swiss water process, for instance, uses only water and activated carbon, no chemicals involved.
Another popular solvent-free approach is the carbon dioxide decaffeination, which uses pressurized carbon dioxide gas to gently remove caffeine without affecting flavor or leaving residues.
Both methods reliably eliminate caffeine while keeping beneficial polyphenols, antioxidants, vitamins, and coffee oils intact.
in them largely intact.
Nutritionally, decaf coffee remains virtually identical to regular coffee, just minus the caffeine.
And modern solvent-free methods also preserve the flavor remarkably well.
So the science does show that decaf coffee, no matter how it's produced, even with solvents, is safe and has beneficial effects overall.
If you look at most of these studies that have been done showing the beneficial effects of decaffeinated coffee,
Most people are just drinking standard decaffeinated coffee that is not using a solvent-free method.
But if even trace amounts of chemical solvents do make you uncomfortable, choosing the Swiss water method or carbon dioxide decaffeination coffee is probably your best bet.
There's a lot of discussion out there about whether coffee is contaminated by mold toxins called mycotoxins and if these pose real health risks.
Let's cut through the noise and look at what the science actually says and then talk about practical steps to ensure your coffee remains safe.
First, what exactly are mycotoxins?
They're natural toxins produced by certain molds.
In coffee, the primary mycotoxin of concern is called ocrotoxin A or OTA.
At high chronic doses, far above what you'd ever encounter in coffee, OTA can damage kidneys and is considered a probable carcinogen.
Occasionally, you might hear about aflatoxins too, but they're mostly never detected in coffee.
Now, how common are these mycotoxins actually?
Large-scale global surveys involving thousands of coffee samples show that more than 95% are well below international safety limits for OTA.
Importantly, roasting your coffee beans destroys roughly 70% to 90% of any existing OTA, and brewing removes even more, leaving the final amount in your cup extremely low, far below any scientifically established health risk.
In fact, epidemiological studies consistently show coffee drinkers have a reduced risk of liver and kidney diseases, exactly the opposite of what you'd expect if a low-level OTA mycotoxin exposure was a significant issue.
So the reality is, for most coffee drinkers consuming moderate amounts, any mycotoxin exposure is minimal and far outweighed by coffee's proven health benefits.
But if you're still concerned and it's reasonable to want to minimize any potential risk, you
Here are some of the best practices you can follow.
One, choose specially grade coffee beans from reputable roasters.
Specially coffee is carefully screened, tested, and graded, dramatically reducing mold risk.
Two, opt for washed, wet-processed coffees.
Washed coffees from regions like Ethiopia or Colombia have lower mold risk due to the removal of surface contaminants during processing.
Three, make sure you store your beans properly.
Keep coffee beans in an airtight container away from moisture and heat to prevent mold growth.
Ideally, consume them within about a month of roasting.
And number four, use paper filters when brewing.
Paper filters can help capture residual compounds, including potential trace mycotoxins, which further reduces exposure.
So in summary, yes, molds can occasionally grow on coffee beans, but good sourcing, storage, roasting, and brewing practices reliably eliminate any meaningful risk.
I think the bottom line here is coffee's proven cardiovascular, metabolic, cognitive, and neuroprotective benefits far outweigh any theoretical mycotoxin concern, especially when you source and handle your beans with these simple precautions.
Now let's talk about coffee additives.
Many people ask, does adding dairy to your coffee blunt its beneficial effects?
The short answer is partially yes, especially if your goal is rapid polyphenol absorption and maximum cognitive benefit.
So here's what happens.
Milk contains casein and whey proteins, which bind tightly to coffee's main antioxidants, the chlorogenic acids.
These protein polyphenol complexes slow down early absorption in the small intestine, reducing the sharp immediate surge in these antioxidants in your bloodstream by about 20% to 30%.
Instead, polyphenols travel farther down the digestive tract where the gut microbiomes eventually break them down.
You're not losing the benefits completely, but you're massively delaying them and modifying how these compounds are metabolized.
If you want to have immediate brain-enhancing effects, such as improved cognition, rapid antioxidant activity, and early anti-inflammatory signaling, black coffee or coffee with minimal protein is the way to go.
Even small amounts of dairy can significantly blunt this rapid polyphenol availability.
On the other hand, if your priority is general health, gut microbiome support, or simply taste and enjoyment, modest dairy consumption likely won't erase coffee's broader benefits.
But if you want peak immediate cognitive enhancement from coffee's polyphenols, I strongly suggest you keep your coffee black or use a small amount of plant-based milk such as almond milk.
which interacts minimally with these beneficial compounds.
Or what about MCT powder?
Medium chain triglycerides or MCTs behave differently from dairy proteins.
Unlike casein and whey protein in milk, MCT powder does not bind polyphenols in coffee, so it won't significantly delay their absorption or blunt their rapid bioavailability.
In fact, adding MCT to your coffee can potentially enhance cognitive benefits through a different pathway by increasing ketone levels, which provide an alternative rapidly available energy source for neurons.
This can support alertness, focus, and even mood, especially in a fasted or low-carb state.
But there is another critical point to consider when you're using MCT powder, and that would be the saturated fat content.
Heavy cream, MCT powders, these contain substantial amounts of saturated fat.
And if you're consuming multiple cups of coffee daily, say three to four cups, you could be easily taking in an extra 15 to 20 grams of saturated fat per day in just your coffee.
Consistent high saturated fat intake does elevate ApoB containing lipoproteins, which is the primary driver of cardiovascular disease risk.
So you don't want to be consistently elevating your ApoB with every cup of coffee that you're drinking.
If you do drink coffee frequently throughout the day, it's probably wise to be mindful of what you add to your coffee.
So occasional use of MCT or
Or cream is likely harmless, but multiple times a day, and if you're doing heavy additions of it to your coffee, it might actually have a significant impact on your lipid profile.
If you do want to keep your ApoB in check while maximizing coffee health benefits, you should probably stick with black coffee or small amounts of cream, small amounts of MCT, or also opt for the unsweetened plant-based milks like almond milk.
Another common question I get is, can you add something to your coffee to amplify its cognitive benefits and reduce some of the jitteriness caffeine can cause?
And the answer is yes.
A particularly effective compound is L-theanine.
This is an amino acid naturally found in green tea that readily crosses the blood-brain barrier.
L-theanine works synergistically with caffeine.
On its own, caffeine enhances alertness by blocking adenosine receptors, boosting dopamine and norepinephrine,
Great for focus, but sometimes this creates anxiety or jitteriness.
L-theanine increases GABA and glycine signaling in the brain, creating a state of characterized...
alpha brainwaves.
These are the primary brain rhythms that are linked to calm, attentive states without sedation.
So what you're doing by pairing the two is essentially smoothing out caffeine's stimulatory spike.
Multiple studies show that combining roughly 100 to 200 milligrams of L-theanine with about 100 to 150 milligrams of caffeine, approximately the amount in a standard cup of coffee, significantly improves cognitive performance.
People experience enhanced sustained attention, faster reaction times, better accuracy on demanding cognitive tasks, and notably fewer feelings of anxiety or jitters.
L-theanine even dampens caffeine's transient blood pressure increase without sacrificing alertness.
So practically speaking, here's what I think is best for maximizing the cognitive benefits of coffee.
Pair about one cup of coffee, so 100 to about 150 milligrams of caffeine, with about 100 to 200 milligrams of L-theanine.
Take them at the same time.
They have similar absorption kinetics.
So if you simultaneously take them, that works the best.
You can easily find L-theanine as a powder or a capsule.
It dissolves directly into coffee and has minimal taste effects.
So this combination is really safe.
It's well studied and it's low risk at these doses.
I do want to make it absolutely clear that L-theanine doesn't remove caffeine's sleep disrupting effects.
So you still need to keep caffeine intake early in the day.
But if you're looking for that calm, sustained, jitter-free cognitive boost from coffee, adding L-theanine really is a powerful scientifically validated tool.
So in summary, coffee, when consumed correctly, is really a powerful tool backed by rigorous science for enhancing healthspan,
extending lifespan and protecting against the deadliest diseases of aging, including heart disease, diabetes, and certain cancers.
We now know that coffee actively influences the fundamental mechanisms of biological aging at the cellular level, shaping everything from our epigenetic age and DNA integrity to metabolism, cardiovascular health, and cognitive function.
But to summarize some of the benefits fully, timing and preparation do matter.
Early in the day consumption maximizes circadian biology,
optimizes sleep metabolism and overall health filtered coffee methods eliminate cholesterol raising compounds while preserving antioxidants that actively repair dna and reduce inflammation and while caffeine offers unique neuroprotective and cognitive benefits even decaf coffee contributes powerful bioactive compounds that nourish our gut microbiome and also fight disease
In practical terms, the science suggests consuming about two to three cups of coffee daily, ideally filtered and primarily in the morning hours.
You want to keep additives minimal to preserve the immediate cognitive and long-term metabolic benefits.
And you also want to consider strategic supplements like L-theanine to amplify caffeine's cognitive clarity without anxiety.
Ultimately, coffee is an accessible, evidence-based approach to improving our health at every level, from cells and genes to cognition and physical performance.
If used wisely, it's not just a beverage.
It's really a scientifically supported intervention for longevity and well-being.
Dr. Rhonda Patrick here.
A new study found that vitamin D supplementation was associated with a 40% lower risk of dementia over a decade.
After just five years, 84% of the vitamin D supplement users were dementia-free compared to 68% of the non-users.
This was a study of over 12,000 people.
And vitamin D reduced dementia risk by around 33% in adults with mild cognitive impairment and also had ApoE4.
This is a key genetic risk factor for neurodegenerative diseases.
Up to 25% of the population has one of these alleles, and it can double the risk of Alzheimer's disease if you have one of them.
If you have two of these alleles, you can have up to a tenfold higher risk of Alzheimer's disease.
Vitamin D is not just a vitamin.
Vitamin D gets converted into a steroid hormone that regulates over a thousand genes in our body.
It enters the nucleus of our cells and it regulates, it activates and turns on or it suppresses and turns off up to nearly 5% of the protein encoding human genome.
This is very relevant because up to 70% of Americans fall into a range known as deficient or insufficient.
So almost 30% of Americans actually are vitamin D deficient.
They have levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D below 20 nanograms per milliliter.
The other 40% or so has levels that's known as insufficient.
So these are people that have vitamin D levels above 20 nanograms per milliliter, but they're below 30 nanograms per milliliter.
And there's really a simple solution to avoiding this deficiency and insufficiency, and that is a vitamin D supplement.
Usually people that are vitamin D deficient, if they take around 2,000 to 4,000 IUs per day, they can get to a sufficient level.
There's a lot of reasons why vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency is so widespread.
That is because we actually make vitamin D in our skin upon exposure from UV radiation from the sun.
So anything that blocks out UVB radiation is also going to block out the ability to produce vitamin D3 in our skin.
That includes sunscreen.
It also includes skin pigmentation.
So melanin, this is the...
Darker pigmentation that serves as a natural sunscreen.
That also blunts the body's ability to make vitamin D3 from UVB radiation.
Age.
As you get older, your body is less efficient and effective at producing vitamin D3 from sun exposure.
In fact, a 70-year-old makes four times less vitamin D from the sun than a 20-year-old.
Where you live.
So living in a northern latitude...
Many months of the year, actually, there's no UVB radiation even reaching the atmosphere.
So people that are living in more northern latitude areas are not able to make vitamin D3 in their skin from the sun for many, many months out of the year.
So that also really affects the ability to make vitamin D. And then also just body fat.
So vitamin D is actually a fat-soluble vitamin.
And it's stored in fat.
And so the more body fat that you have, that means the less vitamin D3 is bioavailable to be released into the bloodstream, where that it undergoes further metabolic conversion to the steroid hormone, which is actually what's regulating all these genes, many of them in the brain.
I mean, there are many, many, many what are called observational studies that are looking at a correlation between low vitamin D levels and dementia risk.
Many different studies have found this same association.
And so one might say, well,
people that are vitamin D deficient might just be less healthy.
They might be going out in the sun less, they're exercising less.
And so vitamin D deficiency might just be biomarking some other health factor.
So that is a, I would say, pretty relevant argument, but we also have a whole host of other data to support the link between vitamin D deficiency and dementia risk and Alzheimer's disease risk.
So for example,
With these observational studies, we can look at what's called Mendelian randomization.
This is a way to use genetics to look at how something in the environment can affect an outcome.
In this case, there's many different genes that regulate the ability of your body to produce vitamin D3 and convert it into the steroid hormone.
And some people do that less effectively because they have a certain variation in those genes that are not doing it quite as well.
And so you can look at genetically low vitamin D levels.
In other words, you just look at someone's genes.
And if they have a certain variation of that vitamin D converting gene that makes it not as effective, you put them into the low vitamin D group because we know people with those genes actually do have low vitamin D. And then you compare them to people that have the normal functioning genes that don't make them have low vitamin D levels.
They don't have low 125-hydroxyvitamin D, which is the actual steroid hormone.
And then you look at the risk for dementia and Alzheimer's disease.
And so what's been shown is that genetically low vitamin D levels increase dementia risk by up to 54%.
Again, this is really confirming that observational data, which really can't really show causation.
And so it strengthens that data, but then you can go a step further and you can look at other studies that have shown vitamin D deficiency actually accelerates brain aging.
So there have been studies that have shown, that have looked by fMRI,
at what's called white matter hyperintensities.
So these kind of show up as little white hyper spots, if you're looking at an MRI image of the brain, and it's really a marker of damage to the white matter in the brain.
And the white matter is where
is it's so important for brain function, for communication.
It's how your brain's communicating.
So when you have damage to that white matter, it really does affect cognition.
It affects communication and memory.
For every 10 nanomole per liter increase in vitamin D, there was a small decrease in the volume of these white matter hyperintensities, suggesting that having higher levels of vitamin D can protect against this type of brain damage.
Even a step further, looking at vitamin D supplementation and how that can affect cognition.
Now, there's a lot of mixed data out there, particularly when it comes to vitamin D supplementation affecting cognition in normal, healthy adults, but there have been a few trials that have actually looked at vitamin D supplementation in people with either Alzheimer's disease or people with mild cognitive impairment.
So in both those scenarios, in people with mild cognitive impairment, if they took around 800 IUs of vitamin D daily for a year, they had significant improvements in multiple areas of cognition, memory, attention, overall IQ.
And the same goes with the Alzheimer's disease study.
So people that took, again, 800 IUs a day for over a year, and these people were already diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, they also had improved scores on memory and attention tests, similar to that first trial I just mentioned.
But additionally, there was also a reduction in blood biomarkers of amyloid beta pathology, such as amyloid beta-42, which is associated with Alzheimer's disease progression.
So this data really strengthens the argument that low vitamin D can increase dementia risk and that supplementing with vitamin D can help lower that risk, which brings us back to this recent study where vitamin D supplementation was associated with a 40% lower risk of dementia.
So let's dive into that a little bit closer.
So the study included 12,388 adults who were divided into two groups, those who reported using vitamin D supplements in any form.
It could be calcium vitamin D. It could be the active form of vitamin D. It could be vitamin D2.
So any form of vitamin D, it didn't matter what form.
And then the other group it was divided into is those that did not take any form of vitamin D supplement.
There was a 10-year follow-up, and during that period, supplementing with vitamin D was associated with a 40% lower incidence of dementia.
Over 2,000 participants who reported never using vitamin D supplements developed dementia compared to just 679 of those participants who actually did report using vitamin D supplements.
Supplementing with vitamin D was also associated with a greater five-year dementia-free survival.
So 84% of adults in the vitamin D group were free of dementia during this time period, while only 68% of the non-vitamin D users were dementia-free during that same period.
And this was also true regardless of whether or not
The participants had baseline mild cognitive decline or normal cognitive function.
So vitamin D seemed to provide a benefit in both of those scenarios.
And while dementia prevalence was higher in adults with mild cognitive impairment, it was around 15% lower in this group for adults who supplemented with vitamin D compared to those who didn't.
So in other words, even if you already had some sort of
mild cognitive impairment, you still had a lower risk of actually transitioning to dementia if you were supplementing with vitamin D. Although vitamin D supplementation reduced dementia risk among all groups, there were several interesting findings regarding the benefits of vitamin D for certain populations.
So, for example, women derived the greatest benefit from vitamin D. They actually experienced less dementia compared to men who supplemented.
And while vitamin D using men had a 26% lower dementia incidence than non-users, vitamin D using women had almost a 50% lower incidence compared to non-using women.
So really, there's a much bigger difference in terms of women having a lower incidence.
And I'm wondering if that's because generally speaking, women get dementia and Alzheimer's disease
about twice as higher of a frequency than men do.
So there just might be more of a signal here to lower.
That's one possibility.
Adults that had normal baseline cognitive function had a 56% lower dementia incidence if they supplemented with vitamin D, but adults that did have mild cognitive impairment only had a 33% lower incidence of dementia if they supplemented.
So in other words, if you were already, if you started out dementia-free and healthy,
vitamin D had a more robust effect on lowering your dementia incidence, which makes sense.
If you're already in a state of mild cognitive impairment, it's much harder to kind of reverse damage that's already been done.
And this brings us to APOE4.
So I mentioned earlier, APOE4 is the biggest genetic risk factor for Alzheimer's disease.
25% of the population carries at least one allele.
Having one allele can increase the risk of dementia and Alzheimer's disease by twofold.
Having two copies of that allele can increase the risk up to tenfold.
So it's really important for people to understand that if they have one of these alleles, that they really need to try to do everything they can within their lifestyle to lower their dementia risk.
And so people that had ApoE4 that supplemented with vitamin D did reduce their incidence of dementia by around 33%.
And among non-carriers, vitamin D reduced the incidence of dementia by 47%, a little bit higher, which is not surprising.
And supplementing with vitamin D wasn't enough to outweigh the effects of carrying one or two copies of ApoE4.
These participants still had a 16% greater risk of dementia than non-carriers, even non-carriers who didn't use vitamin D.
The same was true for another risk factor, having mild cognitive impairment, which elevated dementia incidence by nearly 400% compared to people that had normal cognitive function, even in the presence of vitamin D supplementation.
So in other words, if you have an APOE4 allele or if you had mild cognitive impairment at the baseline level,
then you had a tremendously higher risk of getting dementia and Alzheimer's disease.
However, the vitamin D supplementation did still help.
It just didn't help as much as someone that was healthy and had normal cognitive function and was a non-carrier at the start of this study.
Okay, so let's dig a little bit deeper.
Participants with mild cognitive impairment who didn't supplement with vitamin D had more than a 600% increase in dementia risk compared to the adults with normal cognitive function, even those who didn't use vitamin D. So in other words, I just mentioned that people that had mild cognitive impairment
had a 400% higher risk of having dementia compared to people that had normal cognitive function at the beginning of the trial.
But that was only if they supplemented with vitamin D. People that didn't supplement with vitamin D had a 600% higher risk of developing dementia if they started with mild cognitive impairment.
It also didn't matter what form vitamin D was used.
All of them were associated with a lower dementia risk.
Specifically, using calcium vitamin D was associated with a 44% lower risk of dementia.
And using vitamin D3 was associated with a 37% lower risk of dementia.
And then using vitamin D2, which is the plant version, was actually associated with a 50% lower risk of dementia.
Using combined forms of vitamin D was associated with a 50% lower risk.
So I think here in concluding thoughts, overall, not only the findings of this study, but the other studies that I talked about really do give strong support to this idea that everyone should probably be supplementing with at least some vitamin D to make sure they're avoiding deficiency.
And as I mentioned earlier, deficiency is a widespread problem in the United States.
Up to 70% of people are either deficient or insufficient.
So getting a simple blood test is one of the best things you can do.
Measure your 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels.
This is the precursor to the active steroid hormone, 125-hydroxy vitamin D. And you want to have your 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels between 30 to 60 nanograms per milliliter is a great, I would say, level to have your vitamin D levels.
You don't really want to go above 80 nanograms per milliliter.
Then you start getting into a pretty high range.
Most people can take a supplement in the range of 2,000 to 4,000 IUs a day, depending at where your blood levels are at, and keep their vitamin D levels within that 40 to 60 range.
So it's good to kind of do an annual vitamin D blood test just to make sure you're not taking too much or to make sure that you're actually taking enough to raise your levels into that sweet spot.
And lastly, I just want to mention how vitamin D can support brain health.
So vitamin D can enhance the removal of amyloid beta.
This is a protein that's linked to Alzheimer's disease by promoting its efflux from the brain.
Now, I mentioned in that study, it was a randomized controlled trial.
And people that were giving an 800 IUs of vitamin D a day, people that already had Alzheimer's disease, it lowered their amyloid beta plaque burden.
Vitamin D also is an immune modulator.
So vitamin D receptors on microglia and astrocytes in the brain help reduce excess neuroinflammation.
So it basically helps lower the pro-inflammatory cytokine response in the brain.
We know that neuroinflammation plays a major, major role in the cause of dementia and Alzheimer's disease.
Vitamin D also upregulates a variety of neurotrophic factors, including nerve growth factor and
also brain-derived neurotrophic factors.
So this is helping support neurotransmitters, supporting learning and memory.
And then lastly, vitamin D also decreases oxidative stress.
It's been shown in the mild cognitive impairment trial that I mentioned earlier.
This was a randomized controlled trial.
Those individuals that took vitamin D also had decreased levels of various markers of oxidative stress compared to people that were given the placebo.
And so oxidative stress is an indirect way that can lead to a variety of inflammatory processes and stuff in the brain as well.
So there's several different mechanisms by which vitamin D can support brain health.
And again, it's pretty simple to get a vitamin D test and to take a relatively inexpensive vitamin D supplement as well.
I'm Dr. Rhonda Patrick, and I'll talk to you soon.
Welcome back to the podcast.
Today, we're diving deep into the science of nutrition, supplementation, training, and recovery for peak athletic performance and longevity.
And joining me is Dr. Andy Galpin.
Dr. Galpin is a professor and director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University.
He bridges the gap between rigorous laboratory research and practical real world strategies, coaching elite athletes, Olympians, and everyday fitness enthusiasts alike.
His research explores the nuances of how training, nutrition, and targeted supplementation interact to drive strength, endurance, and optimal recovery.
In this wide ranging conversation,
Andy and I unpack several critical topics, including nutrition for performance and longevity.
Are these goals fundamentally at odds or can they coexist?
We explore strategies for balancing immediate athletic goals with long-term health.
Fasted training and time-restricted eating.
Who should train fasted?
When might skipping breakfast enhance or impair your results?
We discuss his latest research on fasting, training timing, and body recomposition.
carbohydrates, fat, and protein, what truly matters when fueling performance, recovery, or endurance, and what's just noise.
We break down macro timing, the reality behind carb loading, and the nuances of protein intake beyond standard guidelines.
Supplements that actually move the needle.
Andy shares practical insights into creatine, caffeine, beta-alanine, beetroot juice, rhodiola, and other performance enhancers, including optimal dosages, timing strategies, and which supplements might actively hinder your progress.
Recovery science made practical.
We dissect the science behind cold water immersion, sauna, compression therapies, and targeted nutritional strategies.
Which of these practices boost recovery and which might inadvertently blunt adaptations?
We talk about sleep and performance.
Andy reveals his top practical interventions to dramatically improve sleep quality tonight, no wearables required.
We also tackle common myths, emerging trends, and questions athletes often face from micronutrient needs and electrolyte management to inflammation, soreness, and overtraining.
By the end of this episode, you'll have a clear evidence-based roadmap for optimizing your training, nutrition, supplementation, and recovery, whether your goal is achieving elite performance, improving overall health, or extending longevity.
If you're aiming to enhance your VO2 max or build strength, we've compiled a comprehensive training guide that integrates insights from leading experts featured on the Found My Fitness podcast.
This resource offers evidence-based protocols to optimize your training outcomes.
You can access this free guide right now at howtotrainguide.com.
Once again, that's howtotrainguide.com.
If you find value in the rigorous evidence-based content provided on this podcast and want to support our commitment to keeping it ad-free, please consider becoming a FoundMyFitness Premium member.
Membership grants you exclusive access to the Aliquot, which is our members-only private podcast, monthly live Q&A sessions with me, curated science digest crafted to help you optimize your health and longevity.
You can learn more at foundmyfitness.com forward slash premium.
Once again, that's foundmyfitness.com forward slash premium.
So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Dr. Andy Galpin.
Hey, everyone.
I'm super excited to be sitting across the table from Dr. Andy Galpin, who is the director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University.
Andy and I have been corresponding for at least the last 10 years.
I'm pretty pumped to have this conversation.
He is an expert in muscle physiology, but also has published a wide range of, I would say, exercise physiology-related topics from muscle health to nutrition to recovery.
He also coaches athletes, Olympians, MMA fighters, just all around got a lot of experience and the science behind it.
So, yeah.
I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today, Andy.
I mean, you and I've talked about, you know, a lot of things via, you know, X and Twitter at the time, I think email as well.
So thank you so much for coming on the show.
Well, today it's kind of interesting because you've got this vast publication history in muscle biology and exercise physiology.
But I'm kind of taking you in a direction where you've also published and you have a lot of knowledge regarding nutrition, supplements, recovery.
I'm super interested in the role of those in helping people sort of meet their fitness goals.
And when it comes to nutrition, I mean, this is obviously a field that's
constantly, there's no agreement ever, whether we're talking about performance or longevity.
But there's a growing number of athletes and people that are like myself, which are, I would say, committed exercisers that I'm very interested in health, not as much in performance, although I'm becoming a lot more interested in performance these days, but I'm interested in longevity for sure.
I mean, that's my primary interest.
And so
There's people kind of trying to figure out what kind of diet they could, you know, what kind of diet they could eat to sort of meet their performance and longevity goals, if that's even possible.
Is that something that you've thought about?
No.
Yeah.
I was kind of thinking that was going to be your answer.
I'm very interested in the intermittent fasting, time-restricted eating, training while you're fasted, depending on the type of training, because it's something that I do for certain types of training.
You like to train fasted.
Well, I like to train fasted if I'm going for a 30-minute run.
Yep.
Zone two kind of run.
Sure.
And the reason I do that is because – I mean, this was years ago.
I read a meta-analysis.
And maybe you – I would love to hear your updates on the literature because I know that you've been keeping up with it.
But –
There was a meta-analysis looking at people that were training fasted.
And if they were doing endurance type of aerobic exercise training and they trained – they were training – it was like less than 60 minutes.
It was like less than an hour, right?
Yeah.
And this isn't – you know, this is like a zone two kind of below the lactate threshold type of training.
Then –
they had better adaptations in mitochondria, mitochondrial enzymes, you know, obviously like fatty acids being oxidized.
So, whereas if they trained when they were fed, again, it was less than an hour.
Some of those adaptations were blunted somewhat.
And for me, it was like, oh, well,
I kind of want those adaptations.
So I do like to train a little bit faster.
Now, I don't do hour-long runs anymore.
That was like a thing of the past for me.
I do my strength training.
I do not like to do fasted at all.
I have to have something like a banana.
I have to have some glucose or something.
So I'd love to get your take on training while fasted.
What if someone says, I'm interested in fat adaptation, I'm interested in mitochondrial health, and I'm not an endurance athlete.
I'm just, you know, these are my recovery days.
I do strength training on other days.
These are my recovery days, so to speak, right, in a way.
Then would you still kind of – what are your thoughts on that?
So you mentioned mito adaptations aren't – it's a subtle difference.
But what about lipolysis?
Like what about, you know – Yeah.
What about people that are doing strength training, resistance training first thing in the morning, and they don't have a lot of time.
They're getting their kids ready for school, and it's like they want to feel with something.
Like what's the best option?
Yeah, I think athletes are less interested in that, and people that are more interested in body recomposition, they're wanting to lose fat, gain muscle, are more interested in, okay, well, perhaps that kind of person, that their liver glycogen takes more hours before it depletes.
And then it's like, well, if I then eat before my run, then I didn't fully deplete the liver glycogen, and so they're not going to be perhaps –
undergoing lipolysis and oxidizing fatty acids for energy.
So what about people that are interested in, that are fit and they're not really athletes, but they're exercisers and they're interested in just sort of fat loss, body recomposition?
What about people that are doing time-restricted eating?
And the worry of time-restricted eating would be losing muscle, perhaps, if you're not getting in your protein intake or resistance training.
What are your thoughts there?
You have a new publication now.
You've published in this area.
How do you feel about people that are doing, let's say, a 16-8 time-restricted eating?
But do you think, again, if they were allowed, I mean, most people after they're done strength training, they eat within an hour.
Like I immediately am getting protein in me because I just, my body wants it.
So do you think that maybe would negate some of the performance deficits that you found?
that the tre group did started to come down at the end they just couldn't do as much volume as the other group could do okay at the end of a workout not like at the end of the eight weeks oh okay so because we tested them uh pre mid and post when were they working out morning or evening morning yep so they're all working out fast fasted they're doing strength training fasted yeah so let's okay so the bottom line is from your study which is going to be published soon i
Congratulations.
This is great.
This is a great study.
You sent it to me.
I can't wait to read it.
You can gain muscle on a 16-8 time-restricted eating schedule.
It sounds like if you're doing the training fasted, I mean, there's ways to do 16-8.
You can stop eating earlier and not have to be fasted in the morning, right?
Was it so high because you were doing this hypercaloric?
Because I mean, most people aren't doing...
that many carbohydrates unless they're like endurance athletes.
Would you say that if they were, let's say they were in a slight caloric deficit, still getting their protein, meeting their protein needs, would they be still gaining muscle, you think?
When did they stop eating and how was their sleep affected?
Why is it important for people to have carbohydrates before they're doing strength training?
Or if you're someone that is on more of a hypocaloric diet, if you're trying to lose fat or perhaps maintain your weight, you're kind of really kind of watching your calories, then perhaps you're not...
having a huge total caloric intake per day that you might want to have carbohydrates in that.
What about people that are more endurance type of athletes?
They're out running 10, 15 or more miles or cycling, biking.
What about those individuals?
What kind of carbohydrates are you talking?
You don't want that easy stuff, right?
Did he, I mean, how was the sleeping?
What was the sleeping like?
It's just incredible.
I can't believe people do things like that.
What about carbohydrate replenishment after a long endurance type of workout?
Do you think that's important to replenish the glycogen stores?
Or even if you're just training for a race, right?
If you're training like every day, you're probably going to want to get that replenishment in right away.
What kind of effect does that have on performance?
Is it pretty noticeable?
I mean, if you're
To kind of go back to the original question about eating for longevity versus performance, now we're kind of talking about here.
Well, no, I just kind of wanted to circle back because if we are talking about someone that is racing, right, they're competing, they're trying to PR, they're, you know, all of those things, then the carbohydrate sources that they're eating aren't going to be what I'm eating, right?
I'm not going to be – I'm certainly not going to be chugging the goo, but like the fast – like during like intra-workout, right, while you're racing or even perhaps like you were saying right before, you know, eating the quick – like the stuff that's going to spike your blood glucose quickly.
Yeah.
isn't typically stuff that people that are eating for a longevity type of, like my, my carbohydrate sources are typically vegetables, you know, fruits that have a food fiber matrix.
Most of the time, I mean, some fruits can hit, hit your, your body a little quicker than others like grapes, for example, but you know, um, you know, most of the carbohydrate source are more complex carbohydrates.
So fat often gets overshadowed by protein and carbohydrates.
Where does that come into the equation of meeting your fitness goals, whether you're an endurance athlete or strength training or not necessarily an athlete, just someone who's interested in being healthy and exercising and looking for the longevity aspects of diet and exercise?
Some people think if they're eating a high-fat diet, low-carb diet, and they're doing endurance type of exercise, they're more heavily biased towards endurance training, that they're going to be more fat adapted, they're going to be more metabolically flexible, and their mitochondrial adaptations are going to be superior.
Well, yeah, it does answer the question.
It's basically like, no, you don't have to.
You don't have to.
Eating a higher-fat diet isn't necessarily going to make you better at burning fat.
Oh, no, definitely not.
I certainly think that when it comes down to that metabolic flexibility exercise, again, when you're doing a lot of exercise, you actually are becoming more metabolically flexible through exercise, in my opinion, than anything else.
What do you think about – so I've had Marty Kabbalah on the podcast talking about high-intensity interval training and how – obviously when you're doing – a lot of people think when you're doing –
hit that it's like this all i'm only burning glucose right you know if i'm doing zone two i'm only burning fat only oxidizing fat and using mitochondria and they don't realize there's actually a lot of gray going on like you're doing high intensity interval training types of exercise you're yeah you're you're you're you know going above the lactate threshold you're you're using glucose as fuel but you're also still using your mitochondria right i mean yeah you're pushing them hard and
Right.
No, it's true.
I mean, it's, but people like to kind of put this, I think Lane explained this in a good way, how people like just put things in bins, like it's like this bin or this bin.
And it's like, well, there's sometimes there's a lot of, there's not bins.
They're just kind of just overlap.
I kind of wanted to ask you just because we were talking about the timing of... We talked about the anabolic window for carbohydrates, how there really... There truly does seem to be an importance there with respect to at least if you're doing more endurance type of training and you want to be ready for the next day.
But...
protein, you know, Stu Phillips has been on, LeVan Loon, you're in agreement that really the anabolic window is more of a, it's more of a total daily protein intake.
Is that, I mean, I guess, you know, when Lane came on the podcast, he said, maybe there's a little something you can squeeze out if you're like top level, you know, type of, yeah, power lifter, muscle bodybuilder, whatever.
So you just end up having to do protein like all, like, yeah, right.
Yeah, Luke Van Loon actually did a few studies.
I don't know if he collaborated with the person just mentioned, but also on this pre-sleep protein loading where it's like they're giving people protein, a bolus of protein right before bed, and it does increase muscle protein synthesis while they're sleeping.
And again, I think the way he also framed it was you're getting more of your total protein.
You're getting more of that total protein for the day,
but also it seems to make a difference for like elderly people who are just terrible at getting, making, meeting that protein requirement, you know, for whatever reason.
It's just hard to chew or chew food or their appetite isn't, they don't have a, you know, their appetite hormones are kind of dysregulated, whatever the reason.
So, um,
What I wanted to ask you about, because it was kind of interesting, I saw a study you were a co-author on with respect to protein.
Kind of on that sort of same, you know, token, people meeting, it's hard for some people to take in 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight or more, right?
Tough.
So they're taking protein powders.
They're doing the protein powder.
It's the easiest thing, right?
What are your thoughts on whole foods versus powders?
Now, you published an interesting study on protein.
egg white powder versus the whole egg.
But I'd like to know your thoughts in general.
Yeah, I was kind of...
I was a little shocked, to be honest, because protein was equated, calories were equated, and they were training.
And it's like the people eating the whole eggs had increases.
I guess it was slight in muscle mass.
Was it strength?
Strength also, right?
about that well it's a little interesting because you always think about well leucine is the major signal for you know protein synthesis muscle protein synthesis and you would think well if it's the leucine and the egg white powder it should be why why is there why is there a difference right i mean well again this is what like it's actually funny because when the reviewers came back it was like i knew it was going to happen everybody knew and it was that right you're just like
Totally.
Who knows, right?
Yeah.
But I personally, you know, I don't like protein powders, to be honest.
And it's a processed food.
I mean, you look at protein powders and it's like never just protein.
And so...
I have every reason to be motivated to eat my turkey burger, my homemade turkey burger, you know, versus the protein powder.
But I get it.
I get, like, I have these, like, pre-made, homemade turkey burgers.
You know, they're food prepped, and they're there ready to just microwave.
I'm not scared to microwave, so...
easy for me to do, but there's a lot of people that it's like, ah, they're not going to cook something.
If they don't meal prep, then it's, it's the go-to, right?
You're going, I don't like protein bars.
Same, same thing where it's like, it's processed.
It's all, it's all the stuff like, you know?
So I, I kind of liked the, um,
So we talked a lot about macronutrients.
I think there was, you know, I didn't know if there was, going back to the fat, just before we move on to the micronutrients, is there really an optimal fat ratio or timing?
I mean, or is it mostly come down to if they perform better, if that's what they want?
Or do you think that it's something that's just not as important as carbohydrates?
What about, so you mentioned earlier, you know, that you're,
mostly concerned if people aren't getting enough fat.
And so I'd love for you to explain to people why that is.
But also, I'm interested in your thoughts about the quality of fat.
Are some fats better than others?
Do some fats hinder performance?
The truth is all that matters to me, so let's hear it.
What about olive oil, avocado oil, avocados, nuts?
I mean, omega-3 fatty acids, fish, those are all.
I mean, we'd have to spend hours talking about it because there's just so much nuance.
That would be a whole other episode.
Yeah, there's a lot of emotions involved in nutrition, for sure.
So micronutrients, this is an area that, as you know, I'm very passionate about.
And I think it's a good segue into some supplements that I'm interested in talking about.
But, you know, exercise does increase requirements for several micronutrients.
How do you approach that so that people are more intentional about their diet and trying to get...
Maybe talk about some of those micronutrients and then how...
Yeah, for sure.
I'm glad you mentioned the plasma levels of magnesium, which is mostly what's being measured in a standard test, I guess, you would get from like a routine physical or something like that.
Yeah, you pull it out from your bones and really...
It's kind of like this, your bones are this reservoir.
And by the time someone reaches older age, like 50% of their magnesium has been taken out of their bones.
I mean, it's incredible.
And it plays a role in osteoporosis.
A huge role.
But people aren't really focused on that as much.
Yeah.
So about if half the country isn't...
As you mentioned, it depends on the paper that you're reading and what's being defined as magnesium insufficiency.
Most of the time, it's looking at what the RDA is.
So for women, it's about 320 milligrams per day.
For men, about 420 milligrams per day.
And so people aren't meeting that requirement.
So they're considered to be getting insufficient magnesium.
And so you're talking about half the country, basically.
So you've got a one in two chance of whatever athlete that walks into your door, they might be not getting enough, right?
So that's kind of...
I would say that it's good insurance.
But then, as you mentioned, these athletes are sweating magnesium.
They're breaking down tissue.
They're urinating more.
I mean, there's lots of like it's coming out.
It's coming out.
And so they can require up to 10% to 20% more than the RDA.
And so if they're not even meeting that RDA, it makes sense to supplement.
Now, I've heard you talk about different magnesium supplements like magnesium citrate.
being one that is often preferred for recovery.
And that's not an athlete.
That's the standard person.
Athletes can be up to 20% more.
What kind of dose do you typically, and, and, and have you noticed, um,
it affect performance or are they already supplementing with it?
It's not really.
That was my next question.
What about, so omega-3s, and I do want to talk about, we're going to get into recovery and supplements for performance as well, but omega-3s is another one.
I mean, I personally, as you probably know, think that most people are not getting enough omega-3.
In fact, if you look at data on the omega-3 index, people are mostly not.
They're in the low range, and there's a lot of longevity reasons, cardiovascular health, inflammation, why getting up to a higher omega-3 index would be ideal.
And most people, there's been studies showing that taking around,
1.5 to 2 grams a day will get you there from a 4% omega-3 index, which is low, to an 8% omega-3 index, which is high.
And how do you approach omega-3s from a performance perspective?
Yeah, on the AFib thing, there's, you know, it seems to be at a four gram, super high dose range, four grams, ethyl ester form.
Yeah.
And also the recent paper that came out, it was a correlation paper.
It wasn't a randomized control trial.
Bill Harris is publishing a response to that.
It was like terrible statistics and all this stuff done.
So anyways, stay tuned for that.
Did you see the absolute effect, by the way?
Yeah, it was extremely low.
Like nothing.
Like nothing.
So I think it was just creating a lot of anxiety.
Now, of course, there's people that maybe have a family history or prone.
Maybe shouldn't be taking five grams of ethyl ester, high vasepa or whatever a day.
Again, it's like one of those things where you're going to have to spend a little bit of time talking about all the nuance to like really convey everything.
You can't just do a little like, you know, soundbite.
It's just not, people are going to have their emotional response and that's that.
People respond differently.
Not to mention that maybe it was something else.
I mean, like you never really know, but have you, so I had a young professor on the podcast, Chris McClory, and he's,
been doing some pretty pioneering and interesting work.
He trained with a couple of the big guys.
Stu Phillips is one he trained with.
But he does work on high-dose omega-3 and disuse atrophy.
And he's done a couple of randomized controlled trials showing –
It has to be preloading because it's completely independent of the inflammatory effects, anti-inflammatory effects of omega-3s, right?
Where it seems to be you have to, like, get these people on omega-3 for at least a month, right?
They're doing, like, four or five weeks before the trial starts.
So they have to be loaded up.
That's how long it takes to accumulate in cell membranes.
Yeah.
And it's accumulating in their cell membranes and their muscle.
And people then have a disuse event.
So he'll put a cast or whatever on them.
And it cuts disuse atrophy like in half.
And he's trying to figure out what's going on, but it appears to be sensitizing muscle to amino acids.
So it's almost like what exercise is doing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is, of course, when you're having a disuse event, you're not exercising.
But anyways, it's something interesting I kind of wanted to throw out there and get on your radar because it's kind of in your world.
I think that generally speaking, healthy, so we're looking at the effects of omega-3.
They weren't high.
They didn't have high levels of omega-3.
So the idea is you take someone that's already eating fish.
They're supplementing with omega-3.
They're exercising, whatever.
So you put them in a disuse event where they're not moving a limb for four weeks or whatever.
Yeah.
And healthy or not, they're going to lose muscle mass.
So it's kind of interesting that you take something like omega-3s, which are known to affect transporters, receptors, anything embedded in the cell membrane, and makes it better.
It makes it functional.
So when you have a deficiency of it, they're not as optimal.
So it's kind of interesting because it kind of... Super interesting.
Yeah.
For me, it's not just important for...
elderly people and perhaps a surgery or an event a disuse event you can plan for but I think just injury like in general like having having you know these omega-3s in our cell membranes built up to that level already would be important but also what about recovery have you looked at omega-3s in recovery at all not in my lab ever
interesting to say on that stuff well to be determined some other time um i i do want to get into some of these performance enhancers and this is kind of you know it's it's an area that i'm i'm interested in myself i as we were chatting earlier off camera i had i had recently had darren kando on the podcast and he's done a lot of research in the creatine world and
So I'm kind of curious, I take creatine now, but I wanted to ask you about, you know, the top sort of performance enhancing supplements, and then we can kind of get into some of those, but just kind of what, what your thoughts, I'm sure creatine is at the top of the list.
Right, so pretty much the things we've been talking about, you want to make sure you're optimizing your diet, making sure you're getting your micronutrients, your magnesium, vitamin D, I'm sure.
Yeah, some people are really into measuring and trying to, you know, quantify their deficiencies and their sufficiencies and see what's best.
But not everyone, just not everyone's going to do that, right?
Totally, yeah.
So some people, you kind of put them in that bucket of, okay...
50% of the country is not getting enough magnesium.
Most people are not getting omega-3s.
The vitamin D, again, more than half the country is not getting enough because we're spending all of our time indoors.
And so you kind of go for the biggest ones that you're like, probably going to help, right?
Yep.
It's always better to measure things though, right?
Especially with things like vitamin D where you can measure it.
It's a simple test and most doctors will do it.
really careful of you have big downsides in them but yes most people the big stuff we're going to put you in a better spot and that's what to pay attention to so the minerals that are are sort of not as risky would be the magnesium now iron you said iron something that probably more focused on with male sorry females that are uh menstruating right yeah premenopausal females
Yep.
But don't you also like, as an athlete, you kind of like you're losing your, you know, tear down, like red blood cells are being torn down.
And so you're probably losing even more iron.
So you definitely want to measure your iron, your ferritin.
Like what are the main things?
Okay.
Yeah, got it.
Okay.
Well, you mentioned stimulants, cognitive enhancers, and that's something I'm interested in, starting with, of course, caffeine.
I mean, that's probably one of the most widely used stimulants globally.
Yeah.
And I've come across a few studies where caffeine, if used before exercise, seemed to enhance fat burning, like pretty significant.
And now this is not – someone that's already an athlete and doing long amounts of endurance exercise, it's not going to make a difference.
But someone like myself, I'm running like a 30-minute – doing a 30-minute run or I'm doing a 20-minute hit.
I don't know.
This might make a little bit more of a meaningful difference to me.
Boom, that's it.
Absolutely, yeah.
So it's essentially just you're working harder, kind of like with creatine, right?
You're more volume training, performing better.
And so whatever the reason, motivation, what about the dose of the caffeine?
Does that...
Yeah, so the downsides would be at a higher dose, or I guess depending on the person, some people are pretty sensitive, but how can someone know if it's actually affecting their performance?
What about, um, what about music as a performance enhancer?
So I've heard you talk a little bit about, you and Andrew Huberman talk about rhodiola rosea.
And I've been sort of interested in this as a, you know, fatigue reducer, cognitive enhancer.
I'm kind of interested.
How does it work?
How does it compare to caffeine, you know, dose, all those things?
Is it an adaptogen?
What is it?
Is it a polyphenol?
Right, okay, so it's not compromising adaptations.
It's hard to get funding for these sort of things.
What dose do you need to get the performance enhancement?
Is it dependent on your body weight?
Does it make, does it have a caffeine effect or is it like totally different?
And what about in terms of like, you say taking in the morning just to be safe, but like if you're wanting a performance enhancement.
You can take it at night, no problem.
So it's like something that's in your system for a certain amount of time.
It doesn't have to be like right before you work out.
To date, we don't.
Well, 150 milligrams, I guess I'm going to try that out and see.
I kind of want a little performance enhancement in my, especially in my strength training, my CrossFit stuff.
Okay.
You mentioned the beta alanine.
I want to get to that in a minute.
But before, because we're kind of talking about performance enhancement, there's this whole...
category of these blood flow enhancers.
Oh, yeah.
And there's like, so the beetroot juice, beetroot extract, and then there's the citrulline, arginine.
So I'd heard of the beetroot juice and, you know, these nitric oxide boosters, but the citrulline and arginine are something that I haven't really...
I mean, Argenine I know about for blood pressure, but not for this performance enhancement.
And so I'm wondering endurance type of exercise or high rep type of exercise.
I mean, is this something that actually can make a difference in someone that's already well-trained?
Is it like not well-trained people?
How much?
But it sounds like if it's increasing blood flow, it should make you cognitively more sharp as well.
Now, we're talking beetroot juice or we're talking citrulline and arginine?
I was reading about that.
That's not fake at all.
What's better, beetroot juice or beetroot extract?
I mean, I typically go for the low sugar.
Yep.
Which would be the extract.
Yep.
But does it matter?
Well, if you're going for the powder, what kind of dose do you have to take it?
How soon before exercise?
Can you take it chronically?
Is it going to stop working?
Can I start taking it before my podcast?
I mean, like, how does this work?
Can you use it with caffeine?
In other words, like, okay.
What are the downsides?
I mean, it affects blood pressure, presumably, right?
I think I remember reading studies about that years ago on at least beetroot.
Do you have a preference to citrulline versus beetroot?
Yeah.
What about just baking some beets?
Would you get a similar effect or would it not be concentrated enough?
In a smoothie or something?
Now, you said arginine has fallen out of favor.
Why is that?
Okay, got it.
Yeah, the arginine is used for viral replication.
I thought that was kind of interesting.
I mean, I've never tried, but...
I was reading a little bit about the cold sore thing.
I guess if someone has herpes, cold sores or whatever, that might flare them up or something.
But I'm going to try the beetroot.
It's totally worth it.
I experimented with it like 10 years ago for blood pressure and I was giving it to my mom.
But I just – at the time, I was more low carb and I couldn't find –
a quality source i'm sure now it's probably there's like great sources of it but um yeah so now i think i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna go back circle back and try it try it out again i love how you experiment on your mom that's great
I mean, I'm, you know.
Yeah, I'm judicial.
I don't do all the crazy stuff.
But I told you she's doing CrossFit now, which is like amazing.
CrossFit for seniors.
It's definitely a tone down from what I'm doing.
Yeah, and confident too, for sure.
And I'm also interested in all this stuff to, you know, I'm going to kind of play around a little bit.
You mentioned the beta alanine and I don't know if sodium bicarbonate's in there, but beta alanine I'm sort of interested in.
I've never really heard of it until I heard you talk about it.
I didn't know anything about the fatigue buffers, what it's doing.
So how does it work?
Tell us a little bit about it.
What would be the optimal dose?
Okay.
So we can look that up.
But I did read that there's some kind of tingling effect.
Oh, yeah.
Can you mitigate that by... Yeah.
But that's like a higher dose, right?
Can you just, can you take it?
Oh, so it's really like not something you're going to continue feeling once you.
What should you, is it like a cycling kind of thing where you want to cycle it?
Okay.
And it's pretty safe.
You said it's been well studied.
So anything else?
We didn't talk about the creatine dose.
I mean, typically, I mean, like I said, Darren Kando just was on the podcast and talked about typically for muscles, like five grams, but reasons to go up for cognitive.
0.1 gram per kilogram body weight is what I think he said.
Yeah.
People get GI distress.
Some people get that.
I don't.
Any other supplements?
Yeah.
And that improves your high-intensity performance?
But does, this doesn't have to, this doesn't take weeks like beta alanine.
I want to get into recovery and some other things, but taurine.
Have you ever messed around with taurine?
It comes to my mind.
I've come across the literature.
Also, my late mentor, Bruce Ames, called it a longevity vitamin.
He's taking a gram a day, and this was for longevity reasons, and there's a lot of evidence for longevity.
But I remember when I was looking into it, I was coming across some performance stuff.
It seemed a little mixed, but I was kind of curious.
No.
Okay.
It's good for mitochondrial health, but again, more longevity, I think, than performance-wise.
I don't like them because...
It's like it might have a one or two compounds I'm interested in, but then it has a whole host of things that I don't want.
It's like I can never find something that doesn't have something I don't want.
Yeah.
Speaking of which, supplements that we don't want to take.
I mean, I don't know if there's ones that actually inhibit performance, but I'm interested in the ones that are blunting adaptations.
Yeah.
Right.
Maybe we can talk a little bit about.
Well, are there ones that are actually that you don't want to take for performance?
I mean, you have to be taking some kind of powder or something.
Yeah.
So high dose caffeine would be something that's going to impair performance.
Right?
Antioxidants, anti-inflammatories.
But are they always combined?
Have you seen a vitamin C by itself blunting?
Like, and what dose, if you have?
I don't think so.
I've seen a lot of combined.
Vitamin E is a very powerful antioxidant.
Yeah.
So I'm always, you know, it's something I'm very interested in because...
There's definitely a good amount of evidence that taking vitamin C in the dose range above 250 milligrams a day can help prevent some upper respiratory tract infections, particularly in high-volume training endurance athletes.
Do you think the timing of it, let's say someone works out in the morning and you're
They take their vitamin C like with dinner.
Or vitamin C. It's not very long.
No, it's going to be pretty transient.
It's like a couple hours in the plasma.
I bring that up because I don't know the answer.
It's a really good question.
Right.
I don't know.
What I'm interested in is, okay, so you know a lot about
adaptations in terms of muscle adaptations, there's the cardiovascular adaptations, there's neural adaptations, right, that are happening as a consequence to the inflammation and the oxidation that we are causing from exercise that are important in those adaptations.
And so what you're wanting, you're not wanting to blunt those antioxidants and inflammatory signals that you're making.
So here's the case I'm trying to make.
I don't think people should be supplementing with anything above the RDA for vitamin E, alpha-tocopherol in general.
It's just you don't need 400 IUs of alpha-tocopherol.
But all these studies that are coupling...
Vitamin C with the vitamin E, it's like, hmm, well, are we seeing this because the vitamin E was there?
I think there was like one – maybe one study I recall.
I have a topic page on vitamin C. I think it's on that topic page.
And it was maybe 500 – maybe it was a gram.
I don't know.
But I don't – I just – again, it's like –
it's good to know because for one, I like to take high dose vitamin C when I've been exposed or when my son's been exposed.
It helps me.
And so it'd be nice to know for athletes as well.
It's like, okay, can I take that high dose vitamin C at a certain time?
Yeah, it would matter if it's every day, maybe you're getting 5% less over 20 years.
But the way I... So if I remember correctly, and people can go to my vitamin C topic page on my website and see, we have a graph.
Your plasma levels peak...
And then it goes pretty close back to baseline.
I want to say after like three hours or so.
So if I'm taking it, I'm taking mine at night.
And all night I'm sleeping.
And so it's like when I work out in the morning, my level should be normal by then.
But that's kind of the way I approach it.
Anti-inflammatories, how do you feel about people taking things like NSAIDs for pain or as an anti-inflammatory if they're working out too hard?
Because that also blunts adaptations, right?
Right.
I'm just wondering what she did, what she did to be in that much pain.
I love being sore too.
I mean, I love waking up the next day and... It's great.
Oh, it's the best.
It's the best.
Recovery.
Recovery.
Let's start with some supplements for recovery, but we're going to get it into recovery as well.
I hear a lot about... People have been asking me a lot about tart cherry juice, which...
When they're asking me about that, I was like, oh, you mean for sleep?
Because I'm so used to people taking tart cherry juice for sleep.
But apparently, it's being promoted for reducing delayed onset muscle soreness, recovery.
So can you talk a little bit about tart cherry juice?
Like I said, I want to get into recovery.
And typically, when I have delayed onset muscle soreness or DOMS, I go for a run.
And I'm good.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, it hurts when I start running.
And then as I'm going throughout the run, I start to feel better.
And then the next day, I'm much better.
Yep.
So, you know, I'm just wondering, you know, is tart cherry juice something you think I should try experimenting with?
I mean, is it?
Probably not.
Probably not.
Okay.
You're fine.
Then who's the kind of target person that may benefit from tart cherry juice or your blueberry polyphenol supplement or your polyphenol booster supplement?
Whatever.
Fill in the blank.
What dose?
Is that because the melatonin in it that sleep or combination of... Plausible.
Yeah.
I just, I've had multiple people asking me about it.
And so finally I was like, okay, what is this?
Like when you start to have multiple people asking you, you start to look into it and see like, okay.
It's not as good as other things that we're going to hopefully discuss in a minute.
What about glutamine?
So I have a few thoughts on glutamine.
One, that's interesting TBI because glutamine is like it gets converted into – it gets used by mitochondria as well as a source of energy.
Totally.
And in fact, I did a lot of research in graduate school with glutamine and –
T-cells and activated T-cells.
And this is kind of where I got into this.
I now take glutamine for immune reasons.
And I got it.
I don't know if you've seen any of the literature on long endurance athletes, you know, taking glutamine.
I'm not.
If there's an exposure, I'll take it three times a day.
So if my son all of a sudden starts sneezing, I'm like, okay.
You're just scooping.
So glutamine is used by activated T cells, and it just dawned on me.
I'd done all this research.
I'm like, you can take glucose out of a cell culture as long as there's glutamine there.
Those...
Cells are fine.
They are fine because they consume glutamine as an energy source.
It's used as alpha-ketoglutarate.
So basically it gets converted into that.
But I started taking it and this is total anecdata, but
You know, for a long period of time, I never got sick.
Then I became a mom.
I still didn't get sick until my son started school.
And then it was, like, insane how often I was getting sick.
I was, like, I was wondering if I had cancer.
I'm, like, what is wrong with me?
And then I started to glutamine, and I don't ever get sick anymore.
Really?
I'm serious.
I'm serious.
Now, I'm sure if the flu came up or something, like, I'd probably get it.
But upper respiratory tract infections, like...
If I get a little bit of anything, it's a tiny bit of a runny nose for like a couple of days.
And like, I haven't been sick in months.
And that's unusual as a parent, as you know.
So that's why I take it.
I take it not for recovery reasons, but for, I take it prophylactically every day.
Now, gut health.
So like I said, so right now I take five grams a day.
No, 5.6.
It's almost six grams.
It's about six grams a day.
If I have any inkling suspicion that it's coming... 25 grams.
Yeah, I'm like 20 grams.
I'm like up, up.
And the only downside for me is I can get a little gas when I start going high dose.
I think you're talking about no downsides.
I would say the only downside is if someone has cancer, they have...
Yeah, yeah.
Colon cancer or liver cancer or something like that.
Cancer cells like glutamine.
I was talking about T cells, but cancer cells can thrive with glutamine.
It's an energy source.
And people don't realize that.
And so I was thinking about the TBI thing that I'm totally going off a tangent here, but I'm wondering if the TBI thing, if there's an energy component to it.
In the gut too.
It's like it's being converted to energy.
Your gut cells are using alpha-ketoglutarate.
I mean, it's so interesting.
I think there's so much to be discovered with glutamine that I hope people are going to research that more.
You should, every day.
I give it to my son as well, and he's not getting sick nearly as much.
It's real.
So I was thinking it was placebo.
I was like, oh, it could be placebo because...
you know honestly if it was placebo i don't care if it works it works but my son doesn't know of course that i'm giving him glutamine what are you giving three grams i'm no i'm giving him full five almost five yeah yeah
And it's like, it's been a pretty night and day difference in terms of the effects on the immune system.
I mean, I'm saying immune system.
I don't know that it's actually, I'm just saying.
Bringing illness into our house.
This season has been unbelievable.
And it's funny because this season has been the worst for all of my friends.
Like everyone's been sick.
Crushed.
Yeah.
Everyone's been sick.
We haven't.
I put it in my coffee or, you know, my tea.
And it does, you can, the coffee, if you put, like, monk fruit or stevia, you won't taste it.
But it does have a taste.
As you probably know, you probably remember, it does have a taste.
I just put it, like, in that much water and just down it.
Now what's it supposed to do for muscle recovery?
I just wonder how much of the glutamine, you know, because I remember, gosh, it's been so long.
I did some of these like substrate labeling studies and it was like, you know, a lot of it's getting converted into glutamate and alpha-ketoglutarate and being used as energy.
So it's fascinating.
You kind of wonder how much of the glutamine that you're taking in
is going as an amino acid versus the energy source.
That's a great question.
So you're not really big on recovery supplements.
I got two more to ask you about.
One, and we can kind of lump them together as well, but the hydrolyzed collagen powder for joints and tendons.
And this is where I get into, you know, it's high in arginine.
It's actually really high in arginine.
I take it mostly for skin because I've been pretty convinced by the skin data.
But I was, you know, what are your thoughts on that?
The study that convinced me of that very question that you were asking was actually published a while ago, over a decade ago.
And it was an animal study where hydrolyzed collagen powder was radiolabeled and intact peptides were making their ways to the tendons.
And I was like, okay.
I mean, yeah, it's a rodent, but...
Are we really going to say that, you know, an intact peptide is going to make its way to the tendons?
I mean, maybe, maybe it's not going to happen in a human, but it seems encouraging.
It's got a very different amino acid profile than protein, though.
Proline and hydroxyproline, yeah.
Reasonable.
There's enough competition now that there's quality brands that you can find.
What are your thoughts on glucosamine chondroitin for tendon joint?
Kind of makes evidence as far as I last saw.
Sometimes I'll like, if I have an issue, it's like, okay, let's try to throw it.
Let's throw it in the bucket.
I don't see a big downside just in case.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, we'll hopefully get into some of that because I want to get into recovery.
This is an area where it's very important, as, of course, you know, but I don't know that a lot of people focus on recovery, although it's becoming, I think, more popular.
Increasing, more awareness is, I think, being generated now.
But I was thinking maybe you could kind of just start by walking people through the physiological process of what's going on during recovery.
Why is it so important?
I guess you're talking about the shifts in inflammation and immune response and cellular repair, all the things that are happening in response to the workload that you've applied and the inflammation that you've generated and the oxidation that you've generated.
I think I'm thinking more about adaptations that are occurring to improve muscle mass and strength and your cardiorespiratory fitness, for example.
Okay.
So then let's take a step forward and talk a little bit about what you were asking me.
And that would be like, how can...
person an athlete sort of know if they what can they what kind of metrics can they look at to help signal if they are if they're helping if they're if they're normally sort of recovering from their training versus not so then muscle soreness the injury like what what sort of metrics first most important metric is how are you feeling
Okay, so let's say you have muscle soreness again.
We're back to the muscle soreness.
So the level of blood flow, and you're saying for a long period of time.
So what I'm doing is a short, I'm doing 30 minute run.
What's going on here?
Is it delivering just oxygen and nutrients and inflammatory things are going to the right tissues?
Or what's the mechanism there?
What do you do if someone's feeling a soreness that isn't necessarily going away?
It's kind of sticking around.
It's not like a really bad injury kind of thing, but it's enough to affect their performance.
It's enough that it's like there's something going on.
Now this like compression thing, I've kind of been experimenting around with it.
Voodoo floss, the word voodoo floss.
So I guess it's blood flow restriction.
And you wrap it around something.
Like for me, I've got like this forearm thing.
It's like the tiny tendons or something.
And it really is what I'm pulling.
And what is the best way for fascia?
Is it something like a voodoo floss?
So the compression thing that you were talking about, the boots?
Yep.
So that's working through blood flow restriction?
And then how's that working?
Yeah.
Oh, really?
Well, heat, I would say for sure, because you're also increasing blood flow, right?
Let's talk about that.
Let's get into... Okay, so for recovery, you hear... I mean, you probably know I'm super into the deliberate heat exposure through also jacuzzi and sauna.
There's cold water immersion.
I'd love to talk about how... So with the heat exposure and jacuzzi, sauna...
It sounds like jacuzzi might be the winner with respect to the water.
It's my personal favorite.
The water, orthostatic part of the water as well and helping with blood flow.
Yep.
And also, does it help with the fascial tissue as well?
Yeah.
I mean, there has been some evidence on sauna improving blood pressure, but there's a lot of literature out there on hot baths and chimpanzees doing it.
Totally.
I mean, it's probably a lot more robust in a way as well.
And it's not really like you don't have to worry about the timing as much around exercise.
In fact, you can get in a hot jacuzzi or a hot sauna right after you lift weights.
Yeah.
Do you both endurance and weight training?
Both?
Yep.
There's a couple of things I want to talk about with the sauna.
One, what do you think about some of the, I would still say, preliminary at this point literature on using deliberate heat exposure as a way to improve endurance adaptations and improve performance?
Have you seen some of the data?
There's only really one human study that I've seen, lots of animal studies, looking at...
local heat so on humans it was the local heat applied and how it prevented disuse atrophy but like 40 percent yeah yeah and then there's of course tons and tons of animal studies in fact i was talking about the animal studies before the human data came out and i got a lot of pushback for that but i do think it's again in that sense where you can use it on the days where you're you're you're not training as much yeah to help with not only the cardiovascular adaptations that you mentioned but also helping prevent disuse atrophy right yeah yeah you know so yeah like i love heat
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like even for recovery, it might, I mean, that's a benefit if it's increasing the blood flow and, and helping with the delayed onset muscle soreness and things like that.
Yep.
Cold water immersion.
On the other hand, this is something – it's funny because it's really – it's become popular as a recovery tool.
And I don't – there's a lot of people that I've spoken to, friends that –
didn't know it could blunt adaptations, particularly muscle hypertrophy.
And they're like, what?
I'm getting into it after I lift weights.
Let's talk about that.
That's the study they need to do.
It's probably better than lifting and immediately getting into your ice bath.
Probably.
Yeah, let's talk about how you typically handle it.
Also, you mentioned when you're talking about adaptations, the different things that are happening.
There's the inflammatory response.
There's the hormonal responses that are happening.
There's a lot of things that are happening, right?
And so those things have different time courses.
Yeah.
we're talking about muscle protein synthesis, right?
You're talking about it's elevated for 48 hours after exercise.
And I know I had Luke Van Loon on, you know, not long ago, and he's done at least one study, I think two, looking at cold water immersion and muscle protein synthesis.
And he was saying, yeah, I mean, you know, because the cold water immersion causes vasoconstriction.
So not only are you not getting, you know, the inflammatory mediators to where they need to be and all that signaling, you know, molecules and things like that,
amino acids are not going to muscle either as readily.
And so he was saying, you know, you might want to, you know, wait 24 hours, like basically.
I'm like, so that sounds like a recovery day, but some people are training every day.
Some people are training every day.
I mean, I don't know if they should be training seven days, you know, maybe six days.
I don't know.
But I guess a recovery day can be,
Your endurance aerobic day, because I don't know if that's really been shown that it's blunting any adaptations.
In fact, there's been some performance enhancements, right?
Have you looked into that literature?
So mostly people can use it for their muscle soreness.
Presumably, yeah.
I mean, a lot of people use it for, like you said, the neurological benefits.
I mean, it's something that if I use it, I don't use cold water immersion unless it's summer, to be honest.
I know all about the science.
My husband uses it.
Well, right now he's like, we had to get a new pump, which we got, but then he had to clean it and all this.
But he typically uses it every night.
He uses it at night.
He uses it at night, which is funny because a lot of people use it when they wake up in the morning for like that, like wake up response and you feel like the norepinephrine, you know, you're feeling focused.
And he uses it at night because it helps him sleep, which, you know, I guess the coldness of maybe.
Yeah, interesting.
Yeah, he does it, I mean, it's at least an hour.
Yeah, sometimes he does shower, but it's like a really quick.
Like not, I don't know that he gets hot.
He's actually, he's cold in bed, so it doesn't really make him hot.
But he does hot tub before getting in the cold.
He'll get hot and then get in the cold.
I hate, I do the opposite.
I don't really prefer, I don't like doing hot to cold.
I get blood pressure changes that are like too much.
Yeah.
For me, I'm just like, I have to wait a little bit before, especially if I'm like hot tub into the cold.
I have to, I've had like some scary times where I'm like, like just, I didn't like it.
Um, okay.
So you were talking a little bit about, um, HRV and that's, and you talk about heart rate variability.
And I wanted to talk about, we were talking, chatting a little bit about this before, before we got on camera and, um, for, for measuring something that people can like, you know, maybe on their wearable device, measure a marker of recovery.
Now you said subjective, how you feel about,
wins yeah okay um and it seems to be the case with almost everything like like how hard are you going do you feel like how what's your heart rate going up to or do you feel like your perceived exertions oh your perceived exertion is going to win right yeah yeah um so ben levine was on the podcast and he was actually arguing that heart rate variability is extremely variable in terms of the way it's it's measured and you know he he just sees
Tons of variability, like plus or minus 25% constantly, depending on the variety of factors, the time of day, their breathing, just everything like that.
And he likes to look at resting heart rate, like first thing when you wake up in the morning, what's your resting heart rate, as a good marker of recovery.
And if your resting heart rate's higher...
then it should be, then it's kind of like, okay, maybe you're getting into this over non-functional overreaching, which I want to talk about over training.
Yeah.
Nice use, by the way.
Good gig.
Thank you.
That's good.
But HRV.
So do you think there's, you know,
if there's some way people can kind of follow this consistent measurement protocol, same time of day, same posture, same controlled breathing, or something that they do like a controlled breathing thing before they measure it, something that's giving them consistency.
Even first thing in the morning resting heart rate you're talking about?
How do they establish their normal standard deviation?
30 days.
How accurate are respiratory rate devices that are measuring respiratory rate?
But I mean, if someone's doing this at home, are they gonna be wearing a strap like while they're sleeping?
But you said you lose accuracy if you wear your watch.
And the respiratory rate, so you're mentioning the studies how stress would, I mean, it's very sensitive to stress.
And that's not just like psychological stress.
It's just exercise.
It's any type of stress on the body.
We're like, what?
And then days later, boom.
My friend, Dr. Ashley Mason's the one that's, she was involved with all that studies with us.
Now, would this change in respiratory rate indicate someone is transitioning from like functional overreaching to non-functional reaching?
Maybe you can explain what that is.
Yeah.
And then we can talk a little bit about like if that is a good indicator, what the best indicators are of that.
Besides, I mean, the way you feel as well.
I don't know where that comes into being able to determine that.
What happens to someone's hormones, like testosterone, for example, when they're in non-functional overtraining?
Sorry, I meant non-functional overreaching.
If you stay there, if you're not getting back into the functional overreaching.
Right.
But same exact curve, basically.
Okay.
So most...
People probably aren't.
I mean, there's athletes that might be consistently in non-functional overreaching, especially if they keep that vicious cycle of they're trying to train more to get better and they don't recover or they don't allow for enough recovery.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
They're not getting anywhere.
There's a few times where I get like, okay, I got to just not work out today because I just wake up and I feel tired.
Yep.
How much do you... On training days when you're working out hard, do you require more sleep?
That's actually...
Because you know, the opposite is true, right?
If you're not getting enough sleep, then it's going to affect your performance.
It's going to affect your adaptations.
I mean, everything, right?
Right, so sleep is like the best, I mean, and it's part of the recovery, right?
Again, recovery is so important for performance.
How does a person know if they are really getting enough sleep?
As you mentioned, all these sleep trackers and this and that.
That's kind of how I feel.
I feel like all those things, like how you feel.
I used to do all the sleep tracking and aura ring.
And I do have an eight sleep bed, which tracks my sleep as well.
And the only time I use it, I mean, I use the cooling and all that.
But the only time I look at my data...
Um, is if I'm like, I go out with friends and I'm at like, I'm like, I just, I know I got like, you know, six hours sleep or something.
I just, I'm just like curious, you know, or I feel it like the next day too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, then, then it's like, I, that's when I use it, but you know, it measures my resting heart rate too.
I'll look at that.
Sure.
It's not as, not as probably as good as wearing the aura ring, but, um, yeah, I think that there's a lot of benefit in calibration, um,
What are some of the highest impact behaviors, like adjustments to improve overall sleep quality?
I mean, I heard you talking about hydration for hours and learned a lot.
But what I realized, you know, I like to drink hot tea, especially in the wintertime, like in the evening.
Yep.
Herbal tea.
Yeah.
it is just detrimental to my sleep because I'll have to wake up and pee once or twice if it's like twice is like the worst.
But I've been convinced that I have to like starve myself of water before I go to bed.
Yeah.
Like,
Like, you know, like in the three hours before bed, it's water fasting, like little bits of water.
And then I can make it through the night without getting up once.
And it's amazing.
So I'd love to know.
I mean, there's a lot of sleep hygiene.
And of course, you can talk about that.
But like some of the high impact behaviors, maybe things that people don't realize.
Okay, so a CO2 monitor.
I have one.
So getting a CO2 monitor, what's the number?
900.
So you don't want to be above that.
So what do you do to improve your airflow?
I mean, just open a window?
Okay.
What about people's nose that are closing up?
I mean, you know, if you have a lot of pollen, let's say you have pet dander.
I mean, do you have to get these allergen pillowcases?
Like, how do you stop your nose from closing up?
Right, when you lay down or something.
So if you were going to, let's say, have the three highest impact behavior changes to improve sleep,
I love it.
It's funny.
I do those things and I didn't realize the routine.
It really is when I break my routine, I have a hard time falling asleep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
and and my routine is like a simple thing you know where it's like you know i i brush my teeth i wash my face and then i read the non completely non-work related thing as well it's got to be like like i never get on instagram i don't get on social media like i can't it's too work it's work for me it's hard it's so yeah it's got to be like completely separate from work what do you like relaxing music
It depends.
Like books or articles?
So I haven't been reading books at night in a while.
Now I read them during the day just because the light component.
But no, I'll just read like new stuff.
On your phone?
Oftentimes I will read like some cool science stuff.
But it's not necessarily like health.
So I don't feel like it's, you know, my work.
Relaxing music.
We play, I like to hear some relaxing music.
That also helps.
Yeah, yeah.
But...
No, this has been super awesome, Andy.
I really appreciate you coming out.
And let's talk about, you've got this podcast, Perform.
You talk all about, I mean, it's you and also other guests you have on that are experts.
Yeah, you've got a couple other things you mentioned throughout the podcast too.
What age range?
That's exciting.
Yeah, I'm heading to Dallas in April.
I'm sure I'll be back again, but I'll drop you a line when I head back there.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Well, next time I'd love to, we talked a lot about nutrition and supplements and recovery.
I'd love to get into strength training and protocols and resistance training, strength training, hypertrophy training.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I'm, you know, starting out and I think it's great.
I want to encourage other women too.
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Andy.
Been a real pleasure having you on.
A big thank you to Dr. Andy Galpin for coming on the podcast and thank you for listening.
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Thanks so much and I'll talk to you soon.
Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm Dr. Rhonda Patrick, and today we're discussing a topic that is transforming how we think about cancer prevention, treatment, and survivorship.
For decades, exercise was considered an optional part of cancer care, something beneficial for general health, but not essential.
That paradigm has completely shifted.
The evidence is now overwhelming.
Exercise is not just supportive, it's a therapeutic intervention that recalibrates tumor biology, it enhances treatment tolerance, and it improves survival outcomes.
At the forefront of this research is today's guest, Dr. Carrie Kernier.
He is a professor and Canada research chair at the University of Alberta and one of the most influential figures in exercise oncology.
With over 600 peer-reviewed studies, his work has fundamentally reshaped our understanding of how structured exercise, whether aerobic, resistance training, or high-intensity intervals, can mitigate treatment side effects, enhance immune function, and directly influence cancer progression.
Dr. Kernier co-authored the American Cancer Society's and the American College of Sports Medicine's physical activity guidelines for cancer survivors.
His work has influenced global recommendations.
Each year, 2 million people are diagnosed with cancer in the United States, yet research suggests that up to 40% of cases could be prevented through lifestyle changes.
Among the most powerful interventions, exercise.
Regular physical activity has been shown to lower the risk of at least 8 to 10 different cancer types, including some of the most common and deadly forms.
And crucially, this protection extends even to high-risk populations.
Exercise can reduce cancer risk even if someone is obese, even if they have a family history, and even if they've smoked.
In today's conversation, Dr. Kernier breaks down the most effective ways to use exercise for cancer prevention and treatment, what works, how much you need, and why it's so powerful, how much exercise it really takes to lower cancer risk, why vigorous exercise is the most powerful for cancer prevention.
How exercise lowers cancer risk even in high-risk individuals and the mechanisms behind this effect.
The best type of exercise for prevention and treatment.
We'll compare aerobic training, strength training, and high-intensity interval training to see which delivers the biggest impact for lowering risk and improving treatment outcomes.
How and why exercise improves cancer treatment outcomes, including cancer-related fatigue, sleep, anxiety, and how it helps patients tolerate chemotherapy and radiation more effectively.
Why muscle mass matters for survival and how much training is needed.
How exercise enhances drug effectiveness.
Exercise improves blood flow to tumors, making chemotherapy and radiation treatments more effective by increasing oxygen and drug delivery.
We'll also discuss new frontiers in exercise oncology.
Can exercise act as a pressure wash for circulating tumor cells?
Could high-intensity interval training be a form of cancer immunotherapy?
We explore emerging research that is changing the way we think about cancer care.
By the end of this episode, you'll have a clear science-backed roadmap on how to use exercise to lower cancer risk, to improve treatment outcomes, and to enhance overall health.
Before we dive in today's episode, I want to share with you something I'm really excited about.
I put together a free in-depth guide on how to structure your training based on insights from nearly 100 episodes of conversations with the world's leading experts in exercise physiology and human performance.
It covers everything from the most effective resistance training protocols for building muscle to specific interval training strategies for improving VO2 max to key factors like protein timing, creatine supplementation, and more.
This is all distilled into clear, actionable protocols that you can start using right away.
To get this free protocol guide and immediately start applying it to your own training, just head over to howtotrainguide.com.
Once again, that's howtotrainguide.com.
Okay, let's dive into this important episode.
I'm very, very excited to have this conversation with you, Kerry.
I've been a big fan of your research, read many of your studies over the years, and have been looking forward to this conversation with you today.
Well, I was thinking maybe we could kind of start at the top and just talk a little bit about why effortful exercise is not only beneficial for cancer, but also for health in general.
So maybe we can talk a little bit about cancer prevention.
You often hear about how cancer prevention occurs, you know, decades before you get a diagnosis.
From your research, what is the single best lifestyle shift that someone can do right now to positively, you know, affect their lifetime cancer risk?
If someone had limited time and resources in the sort of 80-20 sense, so if you were going to put in 20% of your effort to kind of get 80% of the reward, would
Do you think that, you know, what are some of the prevention strategies that would give you the biggest bang for your buck, like cancer screenings, exercise, things like that?
Do you find that these recommendations are, so like if you're going to do aerobic exercise versus like the resistance training or high intensity interval training, do you think there's any differences between them or is it really just kind of do something?
Yeah.
So you want a little bit of a stronger stress to cause that immune adaptation, for example, or the metabolic adaptations.
I know the major area of focus of your research is looking at how exercise affects cancer treatment.
But there are some interesting questions I have with prevention as well.
You're mentioning obesity being a big risk factor for a variety of different obesity-related cancers.
And perhaps there's people that have genetic predispositions.
Maybe they have some of these BRCA1, BRCA2, single nucleotide polymorphisms that may increase the risk of breast cancer, for example.
Is there any evidence or do you have any opinions on whether
Someone that may have those risk factors, if they incorporate exercise into their personal hygiene, is that something that can help negate some of that cancer risk, even if they still have the genetic predisposition or even are obese, for example.
Yeah, that was probably the most extreme genetic predisposition case.
I mean, there's other genetic predispositions as well, or maybe a family history, if someone's got like a family history.
There's, it seems like it's really just a panacea.
I mean, in some regards, obviously, you know, if you're a smoker, you don't want the take home message to be, I'm going to exercise, but still smoke, right?
Like, no, like you should, you should quit smoking, right?
That's like the number one thing.
But the fact of the matter is, and I'd love to get into some of these mechanisms in a minute about how exercise is, you know, how it's
playing a role in cancer prevention and, you know, affecting tumor biology through metabolic signals.
I mean, glucose regulation being a big one, right?
I mean, even if you're someone who is obese and you're exercising and you're increasing glucose uptake into your muscle, I mean, that's very beneficial to not have it then available for a lot of cancer cells, you know, which primarily do use glucose for fuel.
So what about someone who is, let's say, not obese?
They're healthy.
Maybe they're in their 40s and they're someone that's more like a weekend warrior maybe.
I don't even know if that would be the term.
Maybe there's someone that just goes for a jog on the weekends only.
Would there be a case to make for those people to maybe push a little bit higher intensity than just going for your jog on the weekends in terms of like making an impact on their cancer prevention?
Is there a limit on that?
So we're saying 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise, you know, depending on where you, what journal you read for the definition of moderate intensity exercise, you'll find it's, you know, your heart rate max is going to like, what, 70%, 75%.
heart rate max.
So, I mean, you're getting some sweat on your brow there.
If you were to do, let's say, 300 minutes a week, you were to double that of moderate intensity, or you're going to also increase the intensity, right?
So you're doing more vigorous types of exercise.
You're going above that 70, 75%.
You're going to 80% max heart rate.
Would you continue to see decreases in cancer risk in that?
I mean, is there a limit?
Like, does it
Okay.
So really, it's better to be on the higher end of the recommendations, whether that's, you know, the moderate intensity exercise 300 minutes a week or vigorous intensity, the higher end being, what, 150 minutes?
That's right.
Okay.
It seems as though people that, let's say, do have a family history of cancer experience
would really benefit from knowing this information as well as their physicians that they speak with because you would imagine someone with a family history would want to hit the top end of that recommendation, right?
And not the minimum.
So you often only hear the minimum when hearing recommendations, which...
I think that's kind of a problem, to be honest.
I think we should be talking about more of the upper end, especially if you're getting a dose response and people really do want to get and maximize their benefits that they're going to get from exercise.
For someone who is exercising and has been and say they still come down with cancer...
Is there any preemptive benefits they get?
So in other words, like, does the fact that they've been, let's say, exercising for decades before their cancer diagnosis, does that seem to change the trajectory of their outcome at all?
Like, do they have a benefit?
What kind of exercise prepares people the most for a cancer treatment that they're going to undergo?
I mean, strength training, resistance training is obviously – you do get your heart rate up.
It's not the same as aerobic exercise or vigorous intensity, high-intensity exercise.
But you're building muscle mass.
You're building muscle strength.
Very, very important for aging.
Yeah.
Where does the aerobic versus like resistance training come into play in terms of preparing someone for a cancer diagnosis?
Got it.
Yeah, I would imagine also if there would be some evidence looking at resistance training added on to that, it would be beneficial because, you know, post-surgery in particular, you're less mobile after, right?
And, you know, so you end up losing muscle mass and it's really hard to gain that muscle mass back after, at least when you're older, after an event like that.
Wow.
Does resistance training counter cancer cacaxia?
Because I know that's a little bit of a different mechanism.
Is that an inflammatory-driven mechanism that's breaking down muscle?
Yeah, that's a really good point.
I mean, on the prevention stage, it would be you have to be incorporating regular resistance training, strength training into your workout routine because you want to have, you want to basically build up that muscle reserve that you have more to pull from if a terrible thing like a cancer diagnosis occurs and cancer cachexia, I don't know exactly what drives it all, but if it kicks in, at least you have more muscle to start with, right?
Like that would be
Do people with obesity also have more muscle mass?
Are they just eating more calories, including from protein, which is a signal for muscle protein synthesis?
You know, the other thing I wonder, Carrie, is oftentimes you'll see in some of the scientific literature obesity defined as a BMI of X, fill in the blank, right?
And if they're measuring BMI, you know, some people that are lifting weights that are very muscular have a high BMI.
And if you were just to look at BMI only and not like hip to waist ratio and other factors, right?
you might actually miscategorize someone as obese.
And so I wonder, it'd be interesting to see if there's anyone that's looked at this obesity paradox and whether or not that's contributing to confounding that data.
Yeah, that's really not something that at least, you know, in the past decade or so or more was really talked about, at least within the context of why it's important to be fit with a cancer diagnosis, right?
Usually you think about aerobic exercise and the stress of aerobic exercise.
And of course, there's all these mechanisms that occur, right?
But it is really interesting to think about how important having that muscle reserve is if you are going to get diagnosed.
Because, I mean, it really does affect, you know, it's almost, it affects the trajectory of almost any kind of illness, not just cancer.
I mean, a respiratory illness, a surgery, anything that's going to have you immobilized for a period of time because you're recovering or, you know, anything like that.
So, yeah.
I know for myself, I've really gone on this personal journey.
I've always been really into endurance training.
I've loved being, you know, outside and running.
That's been something that I love to do for many decades.
But in the last year, I've taken strength training, resistance training really serious.
And, you know, I went from doing like 30 minutes a week to like two and a half hours a week.
of resistance training.
So I've really gone up on, and we're talking, you know, compound lifts and things that are working multiple muscle groups at once and joints and affecting strength as well as, you know, bone density and everything like that.
Okay, so I want to get into exercise treatment in a minute because I know that's really where the bulk of your research is.
But a couple more questions before we get there on the prevention side.
So
I've talked to some people and I've heard them say things like, oh, I do a lot of house chores.
I walk around.
I'm on my feet at work.
Therefore, I'm getting enough exercise and I don't really need to make structured exercise a part of my physical fitness routine.
What would you say to that in terms of affecting cancer risk?
So you're hitting on my next question, which is the concept of exercise snacks, because there's some studies that I've read where sedentary time, so the time that you're sitting at your desk or sitting down at work,
accumulates and that sedentary time is an independent risk factor for cancers, which kind of raises the question of whether or not if you do these sort of structured exercise snacks where you, you know, every hour or so you get up and you do a minute of high knees or you do some, you know, burpees or jumping jacks or whatever your favorite exercise snack is to kind of get the blood flow and break up that sedentary time.
Is that something that would be beneficial?
I think there's some evidence showing that as well, at least with the the vilpa studies, the vigorous intermittent lifestyle activity where people are accumulating these short bursts of a couple of minutes throughout the day all the way.
I think they accumulate up to between six and nine minutes of that, you know, the short bursts of intense actually exercise more intense.
So you mentioned supplements, people take supplements sort of as insurance.
And it's funny, because I've even used that term before, like I take a multivitamin, you know, there's a lot of trace elements and minerals in there that I may or may not get from my diet, but it's kind of like an insurance that I'm at least going to get some of these, you know, minerals and elements that I may not be meeting the recommended intake for.
And I think of exercise almost as like the best
long-term insurance for reducing my cancer risk.
Would you agree with that in terms of?
Okay, so let's shift gears and talk about the role of exercise in cancer treatment.
Maybe we could start just a little bit with explaining this sort of cancer treatment landscape.
Like when someone's newly diagnosed with cancer, like what kind of treatments are they potentially looking at for these different types of cancers?
How does that complicate the role of exercise in the cancer treatment?
I've heard you say, don't take cancer lying down.
How does a patient who is newly diagnosed with cancer, who is scared, confused, how do they transform that fear into motivation to exercise?
How do they transform their fatigue into that motivation to move and exercise?
So what are some of these, you know, effects that exercise can help improve, whether we're talking about chemo tolerance, side effects, you know, improved survival?
What are some of the effects that exercise helps with?
So when it comes to the exercise type, do you think that more intense exercise is more beneficial with respect to cancer treatment and some of the at least mechanisms that may be occurring to have these beneficial outcomes?
What kind of protocols are we talking about with respect to the weight training protocol, the aerobic exercise training protocol that some of the patients in your trials have been on?
Have you ever combined the aerobic exercise with weight training and see if there's like a synergy or additive effect?
When you say high aerobic exercise versus moderate, is this guidelines like per week or what was the kind of protocol?
So I want to talk a little bit about some of the mechanisms for improved survival, for reduced cancer recurrence.
I mean, you mentioned one, which was continuing the treatment, right?
So obviously that's one important one.
But perhaps some other ones that may also affect cancer metastasis, right?
Like that would also affect survival and perhaps recurrence later down the line as well.
What do you find?
Can we talk a little bit about some of these mechanisms like immune related, metabolic related?
I've heard you talk about increased blood flow as well.
And maybe what's most compelling if there's any that's most compelling?
That was phenomenal.
Thank you for that explanation.
A couple of follow-up questions.
So one,
what you're just talking about, you know, the immune surveillance.
And I'm wondering, so I've read some studies about exercise, and these are normal, healthy people.
And, you know, for a long time, it was thought like, oh, if you're sick, if you have a respiratory illness, you should not exercise.
Because some studies that were done showed
found that exercise acutely lowered the number of circulating T cells in the bloodstream, in the vascular system.
But then subsequent studies were done and found that actually those circulating T cells were going somewhere.
They're actually going to the lungs.
So they're immobilizing, going to the lungs to help fight off pathogens, causing the respiratory illness.
Does exercise affect the immune cells like the cytotoxic T lymphocytes or the natural killer T cells immobilization to go to the site of the tumor as well as surveilling in the vascular system?
And most people aren't out there running marathons.
So it seems kind of silly to be so concerned about immunosuppression when a very small percentage of people are overtraining in that regard, right?
My second question is, you were talking about the shearing forces of increasing blood flow and that can kill these circulating tumor cells.
There's a variety of ways you can increase blood flow through various forms of exercise.
So for example, aerobic exercise, it's on a continuum, right?
The higher the intensity you go, the stronger the sort of push of blood flow, you know, cleaning out the system.
Resistance training.
So lifting weights can also cause blood pressure changes and changes in blood flow.
Do you think both of those types of exercise could affect that pathway or is it mostly the more higher intensity sort of aerobic exercise?
And if you do reduce the number of circulating tumor cells in your vascular system, is that associated with, is there data showing that is associated with lower cancer recurrence, lower cancer mortality, for example?
How long does cancer metastasis take?
And does that vary by tumor type?
So if someone's diagnosed with, or let's say someone has stage one, they don't even know they have stage one breast cancer, prostate cancer, colorectal cancer, what's the timeline typically like to get to the next stages?
Is there any type of tracking that can be done for tracking these types?
I mean, can you get a blood test and measure circulating tumor cells?
Is that something that a test is sensitive enough to do?
Well, there are consumer-available tests like Grail that are available, these liquid biopsy tests that are done.
What are your thoughts on someone that's healthy without a family history or perhaps with a family history of cancer doing a liquid biopsy like the Grail test versus maybe the situation that you're saying, which may be a little more applicable now?
where someone has had a cancer diagnosis, has successfully, quote-unquote, successfully undergone treatment in that the primary tumor seems to have gone away, by all means, and they go and do a grail test and perhaps maybe find something or don't find something or maybe monitor, maybe someone does it yearly, annually, you know, I don't know.
What are your thoughts on those scenarios?
On the cancer recurrence side of it, let's say someone wants to pay out of pocket and they're going to go do, I say grail because that's like the biggest, probably most studied one that's out there for consumers.
Right.
And let's say they find, oh, I have a positive test.
I've got some tumor cell DNA that was detected, and it's the same kind of cancer that I was previously diagnosed with.
What would be the next steps for someone?
Do they go to the oncologist and then somehow verify?
I mean, is there any way to verify if the test is accurate or not?
Well, back to this exercise as insurance and the fact that
you know, aerobic exercise in particular, anything that's really increasing blood flow
does seem to really have an effect on these circulating tumor cells, then it would seem silly for someone who has been diagnosed, has been treated for cancer, to not be just moving like their life depended on it, right?
Exercising as much as possible because it seems like that would be your best bet for reducing the cancer metastasis and ensuring that these circulating tumor cells do not go and take camp into another organ.
Yeah.
So you've done a lot of research on a variety of different types of cancer in conjunction with exercise and standard of care treatment, prostate, breast, colorectal, on and on.
So have you noticed that different types of exercise affect these different types of cancers differently in terms of combined treatment?
I wonder if it's interesting because compound lifts and lifting heavy is probably one of the strongest lifestyle factors that can increase testosterone, actually.
I'm wondering if it's having more of a local effect on muscle and not going to the prostate versus...
I guess other things that would increase testosterone.
Well, I'd love to kind of on the flip side of that talk about exercise as a monotherapy.
So there's been some pretty recent large scale trials that you're involved in a race that prevent trial that are potentially going to be looking at exercise, you know, exercise as a monotherapy in, you know, low grade, early stage cancer.
This is an area that really excites me.
So I'd love to hear a little bit more about that.
Why did you choose high-intensity interval training as your exercise intervention type versus something perhaps more moderate intensity like jogging?
Is there something about HIIT and vigorous exercise that you felt was maybe more beneficial for the prostate cancer?
Or is it just easier to adopt that type of exercise?
routine for people?
So how do you guys, and maybe in this trial or in generally speaking, take someone who's under active surveillance, maybe they have been sedentary, they're not someone that's really done structured exercise as a routine, and help transform their fear, because I'm sure it's scary to be diagnosed with prostate cancer as early or as early.
I would say, you know, low grade as it is, it's still probably a very scary, fearful process.
Are there any sorts of programs, structured programs that can help like having a coach or group classes, things like that, that what would help for someone in that situation?
What did you guys use in the study?
With the oncologists and getting them on board, is that something, you know, you often do still hear, again, even oncologists will say to take it easy, to rest, especially if they're going to undergo, you know, they're not in active surveillance, but perhaps they're going to undergo a treatment like a
How do you sort of change the paradigm here and help perhaps a patient give the right information to their oncologist, like giving them studies?
Or what can help sort of change the oncologist from a you should rest and take it easy or just a light walk around the neighborhood to, okay, we should do some high intensity interval training classes to help with treatment?
Well, that's really good news to hear.
I want to kind of circle back to something you mentioned earlier with respect to the benefits of exercise along with treatment in cancer patients on psychological health.
And maybe you can talk a little bit about
how important these benefits are compared to maybe some of the anti-cancer benefits or perhaps even you know you have um one of the big takeaways from the erase trial was that exercise seemed to reduce the fear of progression and you know along with fear and that the stress you get stress hormones and stress hormones really can help fuel
tumor growth as well.
So maybe you can sort of talk about the psychological benefits and sort of are they uncoupled from the anti-cancer benefits.
There's been some pretty large randomized controlled trials over the years and even meta-analyses of these randomized controlled trials comparing exercise, whether it is aerobic, a lot of times running or cycling, even resistance training has been thrown into the mix, comparing them to standard of care treatments for major depressive disorder, like SSRIs, right?
And exercise as a treatment is,
It seems to work just as good, if not better, than a lot of these SSRI drugs are working for the treatment of depression, which is amazing because then you're going to get all the cardiovascular benefits, the muscular benefits, metabolic benefits, right?
Like the endless benefits of exercise in addition to the...
mood benefits, right?
So it's not that surprising to me that exercise would have a very positive effect on mental health of cancer patients, on reducing anxiety and fear, because it's been shown outside of the cancer context and other sorts of disease that are affecting the brain and mental health as well.
And also, you mentioned something interesting.
You said that exercise seems to help cancer patients feel like they have control of their lives, right?
Because I could imagine a cancer diagnosis does feel like you lose complete control of your life.
I mean, it's very scary.
And so I wonder also just if there's almost a placebo effect.
A placebo effect is a real biological phenomenon, as you know.
I mean, changes in immune system, dopamine, a lot of things are happening when you have a positive outlook, when you feel like you have control of something.
And so you almost wonder if that spills over to some of the psychological effects helping the anti-cancer effects as well.
Like there's probably some crossover there.
Well, it sounds to me like the bottom line is, I mean,
at every stage, exercise is something that people need to absolutely focus on for cancer prevention, for cancer treatment, and continuing treatment.
So, you know, it not only is helping you get through the treatment, perhaps, you know, even having beneficial outcomes, you know, with reducing mortality risk, reducing cancer recurrence, but that psychological, let's say you
okay, you get through the treatment, you got rid of the cancer, whew, okay, it's gone.
And some people might think, okay, end, end there, I'm done.
But the reality is then you do have to keep going back for these screenings.
You do have to worry about a few of those tumor cells that escaped and maybe are gonna continue growing at the tumor site or somewhere else.
And so having exercise as a part of your daily routine is going to make everything easier
And it's going to improve the chances that you're not going to have cancer recurrence.
So there's every reason to exercise and there's every reason to be motivated to exercise.
Before we move on to just a couple of rapid fire questions, is there anything that we didn't cover perhaps that might be important to discuss?
Do you have any idea what percentage of people that are diagnosed with cancer actually do use exercise in conjunction with their treatment?
Well, how do they get that support?
And also, what about people that are sedentary before a diagnosis who aren't even used to working out or exercising?
And then now they're facing a cancer diagnosis and they should be exercising.
How do we get those numbers up?
I don't know how the cost of chemotherapy seems like it'd be much more than the cost of an exercise program.
Obviously, we're not talking about exercise as a monotherapy for every cancer type and every diagnosis because some people are advanced.
But it seems like a drop in the pool when you're comparing it to the cost of a lot of these treatments.
But these exercise treatments have been shown to lower recurrence.
Is it just not a large enough study or more studies are needed to convince?
I'm assuming that using biomarkers like reducing circulating tumor cells, which would ultimately affect cancer recurrence, isn't enough to convince... This is a big debate in the oncology field, let alone the exercise oncology field.
Well, the good news is that there are many ways to exercise that are free than you can do at home, you can do in your neighborhood, at a park, right?
So, yeah, it is nice to have that support of a group class, and it's certainly very beneficial to have a coach, a class, I think.
But at the end of the day, if you're looking at, you know,
affecting your mortality, your recurrence, your mental health, all the things that you discuss, then someone's going to be motivated to go out and do it.
Okay, so I have a few rapid fire questions.
I would say, if there were only one sentence you could permanently tattoo onto every patient's mind about exercise, what would it be?
Which one?
Oh, because you're outside, not having some protection.
But it's not exercises doing it.
It's sun exposure.
So that's a bit misleading.
With the animal, the preclinical animal models, what types of tumors were exacerbated by exercise?
So it's not like the animals are being injected with a certain type of tumor.
It can't be traced to that type of tumor.
Maybe it's the background of the mice.
Exactly.
Okay.
Next question.
Have you ever encountered a case where effortful training didn't help?
And what did you learn?
I think you just answered that.
Yeah, sweat.
I mean, if you're sweating a lot, you can also exacerbate skin problems.
I do think at the end of the day, like...
Is there a trade-off?
Like, is the skin irritation or the little bit of diarrhea the price you pay for, like, even more, you know, positive benefits?
And so that's also probably something you consider as well and discuss with the patient, where it's like, you don't want them to necessarily stop the treatment because they have a little skin irritation.
But, you know, it's...
Again, I guess it's my mentality of thinking, too.
I'll handle some suffering if it's going to have a net positive effect.
That's right.
Yeah.
What's one habit or purchase under $50 that can help patients stay active at home during tough treatment phases?
If someone only has 15 minutes a day what's the single best use of that time to fight cancer?
If it's exercise then what type?
Nice.
I do CrossFit training and, you know, it's an hour long session I'll do.
And there's a lot of strength training at the beginning, progressively working up, you know, heavier weights and different types of compound lifts.
But typically at the end of the workout, it'll be like a 15 or 20 minute workout.
And it incorporates, you know, these exercises.
What you're basically saying, you know, squats or deadlifts or these types of strength training and resistance training exercises that do increase heart rate, that are improving muscle mass, improving strength, improving function.
But then it incorporates like some rowing or biking along with it.
So you're getting like a high intensity interval training workout that's including resistance training.
It's very dynamic.
And I think it's very time efficient.
And I think it's wonderful, a wonderful type of training.
Plus, you can get a group workout.
go to group CrossFit classes and have that, like, group setting as well.
We were getting that reinforcement from other people and coaches there.
Well, thank you so much, Carrie, for all of the research that you're doing.
Very, very important research.
And for anyone that's wanting to continue to read some of your publications, they can obviously look you up on PubMed.
But also you've got a –
faculty page at the University of Alberta, Canada.
People can go to that faculty page and find your faculty page there to look up some of your research as well.
Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
I really enjoyed this conversation and appreciate everything that you do.
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Welcome to today's episode, which promises to be exceptional for anyone aiming to
This comprehensive guide not only encompasses everything you'll learn today, but also tackles key questions on how to best train, eat, and supplement for optimal results.
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Now, let's proceed with the episode on the science of protein.
Beyond its well-known role as the building block of muscle, protein is fundamental to our metabolism, insulin sensitivity, and the prevention of diseases such as type 2 diabetes and sarcopenia.
But how much dietary protein do we really need?
And could too much protein, especially from meat, actually be harmful?
Today we'll discuss why maintaining and even building muscle is critical for everyone, not just athletes.
You'll discover how protein intake, coupled with resistance training, drives muscle repair and growth, enhancing athletic performance, improving metabolic health, and promoting longevity by acting as a defense against age-related frailty.
You'll learn about optimal protein amounts based on age, activity level, and goals, whether you want to actively gain muscle
maintain it, or just improve body composition.
we will critically examine current protein recommendations, challenging the adequacy of the RDA of 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight.
Drawing on the latest research, we discuss why higher intakes, ranging from 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kilogram, are more beneficial for general health and why up to two grams or higher may be best for body recomposition.
Addressing the contentious links between high protein diets and health risks,
We will analyze evidence surrounding proteins association with cancer, heart disease, and kidney function.
We'll explore how lifestyle factors, particularly physical activity, profoundly influence these risks.
Specifically, we'll uncover how exercise modulates growth factors like IGF-1, diverting them towards muscle and brain tissue, where they support repair and growth, while potentially mitigating their pro-cancer effects in other tissues.
We dissect the differences between animal and plant proteins in stimulating muscle protein synthesis.
We'll provide practical strategies for vegetarians and vegans to meet their protein needs effectively through increased total intake, diversified sources, and the use of plant-based protein concentrates.
We'll also dispel myths around protein intake timing.
You'll learn how distributing protein evenly across meals can maximize muscle protein synthesis and why the so-called post-exercise anabolic window may not be as narrow as once thought.
Additionally,
We highlight the pivotal role of the amino acid leucine in activating muscle building pathways and how this impacts protein quality considerations.
By the end of this episode, you'll be equipped with all of the evidence-based insights you need to better navigate common misconceptions and ultimately harness protein for muscle maintenance, performance, and a frailty-free future.
So let's get into it.
How much muscle we have tells us more about how we are aging than body weight or BMI ever could.
Here's a startling fact.
After the age of 50, the average person loses about 1% of their muscle mass every single year.
And it's not just muscle mass.
Strength plummets even faster, dropping around 3% annually.
By the time you reach 75, if you're not engaging in regular strength training, you could be losing up to 4% of your strength every year.
So what can we do about this?
Exercise, both before you need it, building muscle reserve, but also in old age to slow and reverse the decline.
While resistance training is the most important factor for building and maintaining muscle mass and strength,
Protein intake plays an important role too.
A meta-analysis from Dr. Stuart Phillips and colleagues highlights the importance of protein intake by showing that people who engage in resistance training and supplemented with additional protein, taking their total daily protein intake up to 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight
increased their muscle mass by 27% and their strength by 10% more than those who did resistance training without additional protein supplementation.
So these people were getting around 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram body weight.
So dialing in that protein intake matters for both muscle mass and strength when combined with resistance training.
Skeletal muscle makes up around 30 to 40% of our lean body mass.
More muscle doesn't just mean more strength.
It means better metabolism, enhanced insulin sensitivity, and a pretty good defense against type 2 diabetes.
It also dramatically decreases frailty and the risk for sarcopenia, one of the main risk factors for falls and fractures in older adults.
Research has shown that individuals who suffer from a fragility fracture are twice as likely to die compared to those without such fractures.
And between 22 to 58 percent of people with a hip fracture pass away within just 12 months after the injury.
In old age, falling and breaking a hip can literally be a death sentence.
A better body composition dramatically improves quality of life and reduces disability risk.
There are a few factors that play a role in this, but a big player here is a phenomenon called
anabolic resistance.
So as we age, our muscles become less responsive to amino acids, meaning they don't trigger muscle protein synthesis in response to protein intake as effectively.
So for older individuals, the same amount of protein results in a smaller increase in muscle protein synthesis compared to younger people.
Some studies have shown that an older person requires almost twice as much protein for the same response.
For example, around 0.24 grams of protein per kilogram body weight or 0.1 grams per pound.
That's 20 grams of protein for about an 80 kilogram man.
maximally stimulates muscle protein synthesis in someone young.
But this dose is higher for older adults who need about 0.4 grams of protein per kilogram or 0.18 grams per pound of protein per dose.
An older adult man weighing about 80 kilograms would need about 32 grams of protein to maximally stimulate muscle protein synthesis.
By the way, for anyone taking notes, this suggests
that the optimal amount of protein per dose is between 20 and as high as 35 grams of protein, depending on your personal level of anabolic resistance.
So this means a few things.
The first is that if you're older, you need a higher total daily protein intake to maintain or increase muscle mass.
It also means that you need a higher dose of protein at each meal to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.
But anabolic resistance is not inevitable or only due to aging, as some might suggest.
In fact, physical inactivity may actually be the biggest contributor.
Reducing physical activity worsens anabolic resistance.
For example, taking fewer steps for just two weeks causes anabolic resistance in older adults.
and reduces their insulin sensitivity.
Imagine what decades of inactivity can do.
That's the bad news.
But the good news is that exercise makes muscle more sensitive to protein and essentially negates anabolic resistance.
When older adults exercise before protein intake, their muscle anabolic response is identical to that of a younger adult.
So how do I interpret this?
Active older adults probably don't experience as much anabolic resistance
as inactive people, and therefore it might not be such an issue for people that are physically active.
The most effective way to combat anabolic resistance as we age is through regular physical activity combined with a higher daily protein intake, ideally around 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight.
We do not have to be frail and old age.
We can build muscle into our 40s, 50s, 60s, and even our 70s and beyond.
and we can definitely increase muscle strength and power output at this age.
In one study that recruited adults aged 90 years and older, eight weeks of high intensity strength training produced a 174% increase in muscle strength.
Muscle strength and size increased even in the ninth decade of life, an age when most people wouldn't even think twice about touching a weight.
So let's talk about the optimal protein intake.
The optimal amount of protein will not be the same for everyone.
Some people want to build muscle mass, some people want to maintain it, and others want to improve their body composition by building muscle and losing fat.
Each of these goals requires a more tailored approach.
The first thing to know is that it's generally agreed upon that protein needs should be calculated based on a lean body mass or an adjusted body weight, reflecting a healthy body fat percentage.
So for example, 12 to 15% for men and around 20% for women.
This prevents unrealistic targets, especially for those who are overweight or obese.
So when I refer to protein intake in grams per kilogram of body weight per day, what I'm ideally referring to is your ideal or goal body weight.
Let's address one thing up front.
The recommended dietary allowance or the RDA for protein of 0.8 grams per kilogram per day
is thought by many to be too low.
This is because the RDA was derived from nitrogen balance studies, which have limitations due to incomplete collection
and inaccurate estimates of amino acid losses.
The optimal range for daily protein intake is closer to 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight per day, or roughly 0.54 to 0.72 grams per pound.
This is based on alternative methods like stable isotope studies, which consistently show that higher intakes are necessary to maintain a positive protein balance,
far above the 0.8 grams per kilogram often cited.
So aiming for at least 1.2 grams and up to 1.6 grams is what we're talking about for optimal protein intake.
There's good evidence to suggest this.
For example, older adults consuming at least 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram body weight per day prevented age-related losses in lean mass when compared to consuming the RDA of 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight.
Older women were also 30% less likely to experience frailty
when consuming protein above the RDA.
So what is the optimal protein intake for building muscle while resistance training?
For people engaged in resistance training, a protein intake of 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight per day has been shown to maximize gains in lean body mass with a 27% increase in muscle mass over even a 1.2 gram
per kilogram intake.
That's a lot, and it really just serves to really underscore how low the RDA really is when you're talking about 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight.
By the way, for an excellent discussion of the protein RDA and much more, see my interview with Dr. Stuart Phillips in episode 76 of the Found My Fitness podcast.
There are special circumstances where even a higher protein intake might offer some marginal benefit.
The first example is people undergoing body recomposition, where they are in an energy deficit to lose fat mass while preserving or even increasing muscle mass.
So let's talk a little bit more about body recomposition and weight loss.
A higher protein intake tends to improve satiety.
It helps you feel fuller for longer and may help prevent overeating.
For people who want to lose weight, this is a major benefit.
Eating more protein is also essential during weight loss to prevent the loss of lean body mass.
When you eat a higher protein calorie restricted diet, more weight loss comes from fat mass than muscle mass.
But remember, resistance training is also important to prevent the loss of lean mass.
High protein diets may also cause a slight increase in the metabolic rate due to the thermic effect of food, helping you burn a few more calories throughout the day.
The second example where a higher protein intake above 1.6 grams per kilogram may be beneficial is with professional athletes where extremely marginal improvements in muscle protein synthesis gives them an edge on competition.
So in this scenario, this is where up to 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram per day or one gram per pound may provide marginal benefits.
Despite common misconceptions, a very high protein intake is not harmful to kidney health in people without pre-existing kidney conditions.
Research consistently shows that high protein diets are safe for most people and any concerns over kidney damage are largely unfounded.
So let's talk about this myth.
Early interpretations of certain studies suggested that excessive protein intake might overwork the kidneys.
While protein restriction can slow the progression of kidney disease in some individuals,
We now know this does not imply that a healthy people should limit their protein consumption.
Higher protein diets do induce changes in kidney function, but they do not overburden the kidneys.
The observed increase in markers in kidney function is a normal adaptive response to eliminate urea and other waste products generated during protein metabolism.
This is entirely normal for individuals with healthy renal function.
So current evidence does not support an association between higher protein intake and kidney disease among healthy adults or those at risk, such as individuals with obesity, hypertension, or even diabetes.
Moreover, research in athletes has shown that consuming protein intakes as high as 3.2 to 4.5 grams per kilogram of body weight per day for up to one year does not cause any adverse changes in kidney function and is considered safe.
This intake is four to six times higher than the RDA for protein.
And emerging research even suggests that higher protein intake may actually be beneficial for people with chronic kidney disease.
Some studies have found that consuming protein at levels above the RDA is associated with reduced mortality risk in this population, challenging the traditional approach of protein restriction.
The bottom line?
we can finally put to rest the myth that high-protein diets harm healthy kidneys.
It's time to tackle another important aspect of protein intake, and that's how often and when we should consume it.
We'll tackle two key points.
First, how we consume our daily protein intake, whether we should spread it evenly across three to four meals or load it up into one or two meals.
Second and related, does protein have to be consumed within a critical anabolic window or timed with our workouts?
In short, the answer to both of these is that factors are less important overall than you might expect.
Emerging evidence reveals that the body can effectively utilize even very large protein doses.
This challenges the notion that protein must be meticulously spread over multiple meals to maximize muscle protein synthesis.
Even though an even daily protein distribution is ideal,
This doesn't mean that consuming the same total amount of protein in fewer high-protein meals is ineffective.
Protein distribution is important but not vital.
When you eat a larger dose of protein, it takes longer to digest but your body will eventually use it.
This is contrary to what some people think happens when you consume more
than 20 to 25 grams of protein in a single meal.
They think that the excess protein will just be excreted by the body and otherwise wasted.
In fact, a study by Dr. Luke Van Loon and colleagues found that consuming 100 grams of protein after exercise led to a more robust and prolonged anabolic response than did 25 grams of protein, but had negligible effects on amino acid oxidation.
The conclusion from this study was, quote, the magnitude and duration of the anabolic response to protein has no upper limit in humans and has been severely underestimated, end quote.
This dispels a few myths about how the body can use only 20 to 25 grams of protein at once.
As a practical takeaway, a more evenly distributed pattern of protein intake throughout the day is probably what we should be striving for.
But evidence like this highlights why more and more experts seem to be aligning on the simple fact that the vast majority of us, athletes or not, should be thinking about protein intake from the standpoint of total efficiency.
daily intake with less overall focus on factors like timing or the per meal intake.
Another question that people have regarding protein timing is whether protein needs to be consumed immediately after exercise to enhance the effects of training.
This idea is known as the anabolic window.
The anabolic window is a period after exercise typically lasting from 30 minutes to two hours during which the body is primed to absorb and utilize nutrients, particularly protein and carbohydrates for muscle repair and growth.
It occurs because the body's ability to synthesize protein
and replenish glycogen stores is heightened, aided by exercise-induced hormonal changes like increased insulin levels.
Consuming 20 to 40 grams of high quality protein, often paired with carbohydrates, can enhance muscle recovery and growth during the anabolic window.
Or so it was once thought.
Recent scientific evidence reveals that muscle protein synthesis remains significantly elevated for a full 24 hours following exercise, effectively debunking the notion of a very narrow anabolic window lasting only a few hours.
Furthermore, supplementing with protein before exercise has the same effects on body composition and strength,
compared to supplementing with protein immediately after exercise.
In other words, there are no meaningful differences between pre- and post-exercise protein ingestion.
This means that you're free to choose when you want to consume protein in relation to exercise, so long as your total daily intake of protein is adequately high to support optimal muscle protein synthesis.
Of course, there is definitely no downside to consuming protein immediately after a workout, especially for people interested in achieving marginal gains in strength or muscle mass.
To wrap up our discussion on protein timing and distribution, I want to bring up one more strategy to help with muscle building that relates to protein distribution and timing, pre-sleep protein.
There's two ways to look at this.
One way is through the lens of time-restricted eating, and the other is through the lens of actively optimizing for muscle protein synthesis on training days.
It's been shown in studies by Dr. Luke Van Loon and colleagues that protein consumed before bed is digested and absorbed overnight.
It also increases overnight muscle protein synthesis rates and improves net protein balance in people who had performed resistance training or
earlier in the day to enhance muscle recovery the benefits of pre-sleep protein have also been shown during chronic resistance exercise training consuming about 30 grams of protein before bed every night while resistance training appears to increase muscle mass and muscle strength
Another thing about pre-sleep protein is that it does not seem to reduce appetite or diminish the muscle protein synthesis response at breakfast the next morning which may have been a concern for some people.
Overall, I think pre-sleep protein is just one way to increase total daily protein intake.
If you don't like going to bed hungry, having a low calorie protein shake on training days may have the benefit of potentially enhancing your muscle gain on those training days.
But don't use this as an excuse to go wild.
We should still be mindful about the fall in insulin sensitivity that happens as we get close to our habitual bedtime.
And this is particularly true if you're not actively training.
So let's summarize some key points about protein timing and distribution.
First, while it's not necessary to consume protein immediately after a workout, there's no harm in doing so.
For those who exercise fasted, having a protein-rich meal right after may be beneficial.
Ultimately, total daily protein intake is the most crucial factor.
Second, evenly distributing protein across meals is ideal, but your body can use even large protein meals.
And finally, consuming protein before bed isn't essential, but it can be a helpful strategy to boost total daily intake
or support muscle recovery, especially in those who are actively training.
All this talk about protein lacks context unless we discuss the best sources of protein, particularly when it comes to stimulating muscle protein synthesis.
Is animal protein better than plant protein?
What about whey protein compared to casein protein?
A high-quality protein can be efficiently digested and utilized to maximize muscle protein synthesis.
Several factors influence a protein's digestibility, including whether it's a whole food source, an animal-based or plant-based protein source, the presence of other nutrients like fiber, which are mainly present in plant foods, and the amino acid composition of the protein.
When it comes to the amino acid composition, leucine is of particular importance for protein quality.
The main anabolic component of protein is the branch chain amino acid leucine, which is a potent stimulator of muscle protein synthesis.
Leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis by activating the mTOR pathway,
which is our body's central regulator of cell growth and metabolism.
In fact, leucine appears to be more critical than the total protein content of food or supplement in determining the muscle protein anabolic response.
This concept is referred to as the leucine threshold or the leucine trigger hypothesis, which suggests that a specific amount of leucine must be consumed to activate muscle protein synthesis.
Essentially, leucine acts as a switch kickstarting the muscle protein building process.
About 0.25 grams of protein per kilogram body weight in a single meal provides a saturating dose of leucine and amino acids to stimulate muscle protein synthesis effectively.
for up to six hours.
That's about two to three grams of leucine, which can be obtained by consuming 20 grams of a high quality protein like whey protein.
Even though leucine might be the most important amino acid for stimulating muscle protein synthesis, all of the amino acids are required to allow the process of muscle protein synthesis to sustain for four to six hours.
Leucine is the signal, but we also need to have all of the building blocks to build and repair muscle protein.
Exercise lowers that leucine threshold because it makes muscle more sensitive to amino acids.
This means a lower dose of leucine and therefore a lower dose of protein is needed to reach the leucine threshold and stimulate muscle protein synthesis.
after exercise.
Aging does reduce the sensitivity of leucine and other amino acids.
It takes a larger dose of protein or leucine to stimulate the same muscle protein synthesis response for someone who is older compared to a younger adult.
But again, older adults who routinely exercise can help overcome this since exercise increases
sensitivity to leucine.
If you're consuming a variety of plant-based and animal-based food sources and or supplementing with whey protein, you probably don't have to worry about consuming enough leucine at each meal or throughout the day.
Focusing on whole foods is the best way to ensure you're getting enough leucine, but of course, if you're concerned, adding whey protein or branched-chain amino acid supplement to your diet is another way to get additional leucine.
Now, let's talk about the difference between protein from animal and plant-based sources.
Animal versus plant protein.
Whether your loyalties are towards a plant-based diet or a meat-inclusive diet, from a standpoint of just focusing on optimizing for muscle protein synthesis, an animal source protein is better.
It is also easier for most people to obtain protein from an animal-based food source for a few reasons.
For one, animal protein sources have a greater protein density.
Plant-based foods contain less protein per gram than most animal-based foods.
For example, getting 20 grams of protein from potatoes
means you need to consume more than a kilogram of potatoes but just 70 grams of meat like chicken or beef contain 20 grams of protein second plant-based foods have a lower digestibility than animal-based foods largely due to the presence of a food matrix consisting of fiber fiber can slightly reduce the body's ability to extract and utilize protein found in plants
it also slows the digestion process.
Sprouting and fermenting can overcome some of this and improve the digestibility and absorption of plant protein.
Third, plant proteins are often deficient in one or more of the essential amino acids.
For example, lysine, methionine, and most importantly, leucine.
Remember, that essential amino acids are needed to be consumed in the diet to build complete proteins in the body.
A lower essential amino acid content means that most plant proteins are incomplete proteins and stimulate a lower anabolic response compared to animal-based protein.
If you're eating plant-based, you do have options.
Protein needs can be met on plant-based diets by supplementing with plant-based protein isolates and concentrates, by consuming a larger quantity of protein each day to compensate for a lower protein quality, and also by diversifying the intake of a
complementary proteins that have the right amino acid profile.
Despite the lower anabolic potential of plant-based protein sources, studies generally support the idea that as long as the total daily protein intake is high enough, a vegetarian or a vegan diet can support daily muscle protein synthesis and gains in muscle size and strength as much as a diet containing animal-based protein.
But because plant protein is lower in quality,
You'll have to consume more food overall to reach your daily protein intake.
But whole foods aren't the only source of protein.
Many people choose to obtain their protein through protein supplements or protein powder, and there's a good reason to think that this is a fairly sensible practice.
Whey protein is one of the most popular protein supplements, in part because it's an extremely high-quality protein source.
Whey is a rich source of the essential amino acids cysteine and the branched-chain amino acids leucine, isoleucine, and valine.
Whey also contains several bioactive peptides.
The leucine content of whey is what makes it stand out.
The leucine content in whey is 50 to 75% higher than other protein sources.
Compared to the other component of milk protein like casein, whey protein is more rapidly digested and stimulates muscle protein synthesis
more effectively at rest and after exercise, making it a go-to protein source for many athletes.
The slower digestion of casein compared to whey isn't necessarily a downside because this means casein provides a prolonged release of amino acids that can be helpful for sustaining the muscle protein synthesis response for a longer period of time.
Whey and casein protein are both much higher quality protein sources than collagen, which has a lower quality amino acid profile.
It's rich in glycine and proline, but lacks essential amino acids like leucine.
Furthermore, collagen does not significantly enhance muscle protein synthesis,
or muscle connective protein synthesis at rest or after exercise, making it a suboptimal protein choice for those engaged in resistance training and wanting to improve skeletal muscle protein synthesis.
It should be clear from our discussion thus far that dietary protein, especially when optimized to suit your individual goals and needs, has an array of health benefits for nearly everyone.
It's performance enhancing, anti-aging from the standpoint of frailty prevention,
and can help you lose weight however this might come as a surprise to many but there is a school of thought within the aging community that too much dietary protein increases cancer risk and contributes to accelerated aging yet today many athletes consume a high protein diet and the fact of the matter is being an athlete even a recreational one is one of the best things we can do to age well
This is both intuitively and scientifically obvious.
How do we reconcile these facts?
Let's get into it.
Some researchers argue that a high protein intake, especially for meat, accelerates aging and even raises the risk of cancer and early death.
This idea stems largely from laboratory studies showing that restricting protein intake extends lifespan in animals and observational data linking high animal protein diets
to a higher mortality rate.
Supporting this idea, one study found that middle-aged adults consuming high-protein diets where 20% of their calories came from protein were 75% more likely to die from any cause and four times more likely to die from cancer.
This is a pretty shocking statistic and animal evidence corroborates some of this at the mechanistic level.
However, there is more to this story.
In another major study, middle-aged adults consuming high protein diets did show increased mortality rates, but only if they had other unhealthy lifestyle factors like obesity, smoking, heavy drinking, or being sedentary.
Among healthy people,
this association disappeared.
So does a high animal protein diet really pose a health risk, or is it more about what unhealthy lifestyle factors exist in someone's life?
This is where it gets interesting.
Protein, particularly from animal sources, spikes levels of a hormone called IGF-1, which can help build muscle, support brain health,
It enhances muscle repair.
But high IGF-1 levels also come with potential downsides, like promoting the survival of precancerous cells and potentially allowing them to form cancer.
Numerous studies have found an association between elevated IGF-1 levels and an increased risk of various cancers.
So should we cut protein drastically to lower IGF-1 levels?
Not necessarily.
Lowering IGF-1 too much can come with its own set of risks.
For example, calorie restriction, which significantly drops IGF-1, has been linked to brain matter loss and non-human primates.
This raises questions about whether low IGF-1 might have trade-offs in terms of brain health.
So is it better to significantly cut protein intake and avoid these risks, or is there a balance to be struck that gives us the best of both worlds?
Muscle strength, muscle repair,
cognitive health, and protection against cancer.
A recent meta-analysis by Dr. Walter Longo and colleagues highlighted this idea, showing a U-shaped relationship between IGF-1 levels and mortality.
Both very high and very low IGF-1 were linked to higher death rates.
What was the optimal range?
It was actually around 120%
to 116 nanograms per milliliter.
And to reach this IGF-1 sweet spot, researchers estimated a daily protein intake of around 50 to 80 grams, which is not very much protein.
Not to mention this study did not specifically look at healthy, physically active people.
And that's a critical piece to the puzzle because a strong response to exercise requires IGF-1.
So it raises a philosophical question.
Are these recommendations aimed at healthy, physically active individuals, or are they tailored to people maintaining a largely sedentary lifestyle?
Physical activity fundamentally changes how IGF-1 behaves in the body.
Exercise lowers IGF-1 in the bloodstream, redirecting it to where it can be beneficial, like the muscle, and notably the brain.
Here's why that's important.
When you exercise, whether it's cardiovascular exercise or strength training or high-intensity interval training, it stimulates muscle fibers and increases IGF-1 receptor density
in the muscle cells.
This makes muscle tissue more sensitive to IGF-1, potentially enhancing its uptake.
While this precise mechanism is still being explored in research, what's clear is that exercise increases the ability of IGF-1 to cross the blood brain barrier.
Once in the brain, IGF-1 plays a crucial role in promoting neurogenesis.
That's the growth of new brain cells, especially in regions of the brain
like the hippocampus, which is important for learning and memory.
Exercise doesn't stop there.
Exercise, particularly intensive exercise, also raises levels of proteins that bind to IGF-1 and reduce its bioavailability to damaged cells that could potentially form cancer cells.
Exercise alone causes more amino acids to be taken up into skeletal muscle, which also has the effect of reducing circulating IGF-1.
In fact, when protein is consumed after exercise, IGF-1 levels do not increase in the ensuing 24 hours like they do when protein is eaten without exercising beforehand.
So by channeling how IGF-1 is used and making it less available to potentially stimulate cancer cells,
exercise acts as a protective shield.
Regular physical activity has long been shown to strongly reduce the risk of many types of cancer, and this may just be one crucial mechanism that accounts for that fact.
Furthermore, exercise enhances the immune system's ability to find and destroy cancer cells.
It lowers chronic inflammation, which is a known risk factor for cancer, and it improves insulin sensitivity, which can further influence IGF-1 levels.
So in short, higher IGF-1 levels aren't inherently dangerous.
It's the context that matters.
Exercise and a healthy lifestyle change the story entirely, showing us that IGF-1 can be a powerful ally for health, strength, and also longevity when guided by an active, balanced lifestyle.
This brings us to another important question.
If protein truly is inherently pro-aging, wouldn't we expect a population with a higher protein intake, athletes for example, to experience reduced life expectancy?
But this doesn't appear to be the case.
And in fact, the opposite is true.
Athletes who we can reasonably expect generally consume higher protein amounts and are known to have elevated IGF-1 levels consistently show longer lifespans and a better health metric.
On average, they live two to eight years longer than the general population.
They also die less of cancer and cardiovascular diseases.
Let's circle back to the amino acid leucine.
Whether we're talking about optimizing muscle protein synthesis or controversies in the aging field surrounding IGF-1 and mTOR, leucine is at the heart of it.
Leucine is the critical signal driving robust activation of mTOR.
Animal protein has a lot of leucine, and whether you consider that a good thing or not actually depends on your views of IGF-1 and mTOR.
mTOR plays key roles in skeletal muscle growth by driving muscle protein synthesis and recovery.
But this brings us to another area where mTOR pathway has also sparked controversy, its potential connection to atherosclerosis.
A study from early 2024 suggested that a high protein intake could accelerate the development of atherosclerosis, which is the hardening and stiffening of arteries.
The study suggested that leucine, which activates mTOR in muscle tissue to drive muscle growth, might also activate mTOR in the vascular system, promoting plaque buildup through immune cell activation.
The important thing to remember is that exercise causes leucine to be taken up by muscle where it activates mTOR in muscle to build and repair muscle rather than spending time in the bloodstream triggering mTOR in the vascular system.
This is yet another example of how being physically active versus sedentary
changes the entire equation.
It's a different game for people who exercise regularly.
Okay, so I hope it's clear by now that the evidence suggesting high protein diets are harmful to health is not particularly strong.
When it comes to some observational data suggesting a potential link between high protein intake and risks like cancer, this risk primarily applies to sedentary individuals with other unhealthy lifestyle factors like obesity.
For physically active people, it's a different story.
Exercise ensures that protein and leucine are directed toward muscle growth and repair, keeping mTOR activation where it's beneficial in the muscles rather than in peripheral tissues.
This explains why athletes, despite consuming more protein, enjoy better health and longer lifespans than the general population.
The bottom line is that for active individuals, higher protein intake supports performance, longevity, and health.
All right, everyone.
That just about does it for our discussion on the science of protein.
To wrap up, I want to provide eight of the most important takeaways.
Number one.
For most adults, a protein intake in the range of 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight per day should be consumed to support overall health.
Older adults, athletes and people who want to lose weight while sustaining lean body mass should consume 1.6 grams per kilogram per day or more.
Protein needs should be calculated based on lean body mass or an adjusted body weight that reflects a healthy body fat percentage.
This is typically around 12 to 15% for men and 20% for women.
This means that if you're not at your ideal weight, you should determine your protein requirements using the target weight you're aiming to achieve.
Number two, when it comes to protein timing, the so-called anabolic window after exercise isn't as narrow as once believed.
Consuming protein either before or after a workout is effective, but also just focusing on total daily protein intake is what is most important for optimizing resistance training gains.
Number three, it is ideal to try and distribute your protein intake evenly across the day.
Aim for around three to four protein rich meals, each containing around 20 to 25 grams of high quality protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.
For older adults, increasing each meal's protein content to 20 to 30 grams may be advantageous due to their higher protein needs and anabolic resistance.
But remember,
that total daily protein intake is much more important than how protein is distributed throughout the day.
Number four, consuming protein before bed, a practice known as pre-sleep protein intake.
This can be particularly beneficial for older adults and athletes.
This strategy enhances overnight muscle protein synthesis and aids in muscle recovery.
It contributes to better muscle health and performance.
Number five, for those considering protein supplementation,
High quality sources like whey and casein proteins are excellent options.
Whey protein is rapidly digested and effective at stimulating muscle protein synthesis, making it a great choice post-exercise or even before bed to provide additional boost of amino acids.
Casein protein digests more slowly, providing a prolonged release of amino acids.
Even if you're meeting your protein needs through diet alone, supplementation can offer targeted benefits such as supporting recovery during sleep or after a very intense exercise.
Number six.
Animal proteins are generally superior to plant proteins for maximizing muscle protein synthesis due to their higher protein density, better digestibility, and complete essential amino acid profiles, particularly their leucine content.
However, vegetarians and vegans can still meet their protein needs by consuming larger quantities of plant-based proteins, diversifying their protein sources, and incorporating plant-based protein isolates and concentrates to ensure they get all their essential amino acids.
Number seven, concerns about high protein intake harming healthy kidneys are largely unfounded for individuals without preexisting kidney issues.
And finally, number eight, despite some schools of thought in the longevity field that higher protein intakes may reduce longevity or promote cancer growth, the available evidence in humans just isn't convincing enough.
Exercise positively influences how the body uses amino acids and growth factors like IGF-1 and proteins like mTOR, directing them towards the muscle and brain health where they're most beneficial.
That brings us to the end of this special episode on all things protein.
I sincerely hope that you learned a few new things and have a greater understanding of the incredibly important role that protein plays in promoting physical health.
Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode.
I hope you enjoyed our deep dive into the science of protein and that you learned something valuable.
If you found this episode helpful, please share it with anyone who might benefit.
Remember, you can download my free guide, How to Train According to the Experts at howtotrainguide.com.
This comprehensive resource distills the most effective training, nutrition, and supplementation strategies from world-leading experts I've interviewed on the podcast.
It dives into optimizing protein intake for muscle growth and recovery, effective resistance training techniques, and aerobic exercise protocols all designed to help you maximize your results, no matter your fitness level.
This guide tackles key questions like what are the core principles of resistance training for strength, hypertrophy, and body composition?
Is training to failure necessary for maximizing muscle growth?
Are training zones effective for monitoring intensity during aerobic exercise?
How can you structure high-intensity interval training to optimize aerobic fitness?
What's the ideal weekly volume and intensity for aerobic exercise?
Does protein timing and distribution impact training adaptations?
How safe and effective is creatine supplementation?
You can get the training guide at howtotrainguide.com.
Thanks for listening and I'll catch you in the next episode.
Most people don't have a slow metabolism and aren't even close to training too hard.
They don't even know what failure feels like because intensity is uncomfortable.
That's one of the many lessons in our episode today featuring Dr. Lane Norton, who is a PhD scientist, professional bodybuilder, and a champion powerlifter that deadlifts over 700 pounds.
Dude's a beast.
Lane and I sat down to discuss when to push to failure, whether seed oils are the real culprit behind chronic disease, the sustaining power of good habits, and not being a perfectionist, not even when it comes to form, how he eats, trains, and his preferred supplement stack.
We also talk about recovering from training injury and then get into controversies such as those surrounding the carnivore diet, diet sodas, artificial sweeteners, intermittent fasting, and much more.
We also discuss why to start tracking calories for at least three days, how the antidepressant effects of exercise compare to SSRIs, how one year of resistance training has lasting benefits three years later, why everyone should train until failure at least once,
Why hard training and consistency trump exercise selection.
How lifting weights can actually decrease lower back pain.
Why proper form isn't that important for injury prevention.
How exposure therapy can help you train through an injury.
Why you should auto-regulate your training after a poor night's sleep.
Why it's never too late to start lifting weights.
Whether seed oils are the predominant cause of chronic disease or if it's just obesity.
whether the carnivore diet is an LDL cholesterol catastrophe, why high heat or repeated heating makes seed oils more damaging, why diet soda helps many people lose weight, and what are the microbiome risks.
whether aspartame from diet soda increases cancer risk, whether time-restricted eating has benefits independent of calorie intake, why everyone should supplement with creatine, why Lane is very bullish on ashwagandha, and so much more.
In this episode, Lane and I talk about the cognitive benefits of physical activity, and a major player in this process is thought to be brain-derived neurotrophic factor, or BDNF.
I've compiled scientifically plausible exercise and nutrition protocols that are incredibly likely to increase BDNF and enhance cognition.
It is an easy to read guide called the Cognitive Enhancement Blueprint.
Make sure you get this free guide at bdnfprotocols.com.
Once again, that's bdnfprotocols.com.
Also during this episode, we reference several key studies.
If you're looking for more context supporting references, our show notes are really awesome.
We've recently revamped them and they're packed with valuable insights.
They have graphs, charts, and more.
So check those out at foundmyfitness.com forward slash episodes.
And now please enjoy this episode with Dr. Lane Norton.
Hey, everyone.
I'm sitting here with Dr. Lane Norton, who needs no intro.
He is a scientist.
He has a PhD in nutrition.
He is a fitness industry influencer.
And he is also a natural professional bodybuilder, powerlifter.
He's an author, serial entrepreneur.
The list goes on and on.
and I'm super excited to be sitting here today with you, Lane.
You and I, we've had interactions over the years on social media, and it's a long time coming that we get to sit down together, meet each other, have a discussion.
I have a lot of respect for the things that you put out on social media, on YouTube, the way you look at the evidence, and really in particular your overall –
view of health and fitness and how practical of a view you take, evidence-based, and really just it's influenced me over the years.
So I'll say that.
So excited to have you here, Lane.
You also have this very unique background because you are a professional powerlifter, bodybuilder.
You have been for many years.
You're coaching people.
You've coached thousands of people.
In fact, I kind of wanted to start with I'm interested in understanding like what are some of the common themes that you use in your coaching life?
to help people be successful?
And what are some of, I would say, the misconceptions, the common misconceptions that you see you have to address in order for them to be successful?
What about – you're talking about eating like the whole foods versus the processed and junk food and bad stuff.
What about people that are coming to you that are – there's so many different diets that are – fad diets for weight loss and –
Like if someone does want to – they want to lose weight, they want to increase their lean body mass and maybe body recomposition.
And I know we're going to talk about training and stuff.
But like what – like do you – is there like a calorie amount that you sort of start with?
Is it based on their body weight?
Like is that something – or do you like think about the actual composition?
Are they doing low carb?
Are they doing high carb or low fat?
Like what's your – how do you approach that?
Can you explain that to people?
Because I think it's important, right?
And that was kind of a follow-up question.
It's like, well –
Where training comes into this picture, where muscle mass comes into this picture and why.
Yeah.
Like how is that a really important like lever that you can pull to help people like body recomp, to help people lose fat?
Can I ask you a question about the lean mass?
Let's say assuming a lot of that is skeletal muscle as well, right?
Sure.
So –
What about the fact that your skeletal muscle is also a big sink for glucose?
How is that?
Do you think you can – you can't really ignore that aspect as well, right?
I mean in terms of the big picture you're talking about.
First of all, I just want to say, we are speaking the same language like all these intermittent – they're actually called the VILPA studies and Marty Gabala was part of that.
I had him on the podcast, talked about that research.
And it was – to me, it was just – it was amazing that they had these fitness trackers like you said.
It was like they went out and did these little short bursts of physical activity and it had a profound effect –
cumulative right i mean so um how easy is it to do like two minutes of like you know climbing like sprinting up the stairs or whatever um i actually work out mostly for the brain benefits by the way like like if i don't get some form of exercise whether it's resistance training or doing some more cardio like i am not in a good space in my head like i can
Those colored glasses are gone.
I can see the negative in a lot of things.
Comparisons.
I'm just in a bad mood.
Like it's – I am a very different person if I get exercise versus if I don't.
And so it's like for me, exercise is – it's necessary.
It is a part of my – I wake up in the – like I brush my teeth.
I have to do exercise.
If I don't, then I'm not in a good position.
And there's the – as Stu Phillips likes to call the disability threshold, right?
Where –
It's like, okay, then one of those things happens or, you know, then another one.
And then they get an infection.
Right.
And then it's like all of a sudden they're not mobile anymore.
You know, they're not independent anymore.
And you're absolutely right.
Those things do add up.
And I do want to – there were some people that had some questions about aging as well.
And, you know, with everything you just said, obviously it's –
Doing something is important and sometimes not obsessing over the perfectionist type of program to do and all that.
But I'm going to ask you some questions because people do ask these questions.
Sure, sure.
Is it – like do you train differently?
Like is there a different type of – are there sets and the reps different do you think for training for mass versus strength?
How do you know if – so I'm sorry.
Going – for someone that may not know what their failure is, like how do you identify close to failure?
For people that are not powerlifters or even professional bodybuilders, what are – perhaps someone that you're – would approach your coaching business or something like that who are wanting to – they're wanting to gain some mass and function and strength, everything, not like a competitive level.
But like what would you say – like how do you do –
exercise selection, like choosing a hack squat over a barbell squat or doing a, you know, a bench press over dumbbells?
And then also, like, are there certain, like, if you were to, like, are there, like, the top five exercises for, like, for each muscle group that you would consider?
It also – I've had this conversation to some – I mean a little bit of this conversation with Stu Phillips and Brad Schoenfeld about training failure, lifting heavy, and things that you've given some more details as well.
But what's nice about it and what I like about it is there are a lot of people –
a lot of older adults, women that have been scared of lifting because of the like, oh, no, I got to lift heavy and I'm going to injure myself.
I might bulk up too much.
I mean, we can talk about that.
But like it does give –
Once I found out it was like you don't have to lift heavy.
You just put the effort in, fatigue yourself.
Now I'm lifting heavier too.
But I started to get into even starting.
That was my in where it was like, okay, I don't have to do this scary thing.
Although now I love it and I'm wanting to lift heavy.
But –
I did want to ask you one follow-up on the squat, hack squat versus like a barbell squat.
Now, in terms of muscle growth –
What about functional, like function?
Let's say an older adult, you know, getting up out of their chair, like being able to like avoid the fall.
Do you think it's the same thing?
This kind of leads to some of the questions that I was wanting to ask you about, you know,
Again, you are obviously an outlier.
I mean, you're a professional power lifter and bodybuilder.
But generally speaking, how do you or how do you coach people to, as much as they can, prevent getting injuries?
Or, I mean, lower your risk, I would say.
Sure.
Lower your risk of injuries.
That's the proper way to say it.
Yeah.
And then also –
like warmups, stretching, but then again, once you have an injury, like how do you push, like you were saying, pain, like you get better with lifting.
So then how do you approach once you actually have an injury?
Like what do you do or what do you coach people to do as well?
You mentioned a couple of things.
I just want to ask you about one to sleep because, you know.
There are many times when people – there are some people that get chronic, like, four hours of sleep.
They're stressed, their work schedule, I don't – maybe they're, like, a new parent, whatever, you know.
But, you know, generally speaking, like, let's say you are getting poor sleep because of something social or just an event, like –
It's not like a chronic, chronic thing forever, but like you even get a couple of poor nights of sleep.
That's when I think that really you need to make sure you really do focus on getting a workout.
And I don't mean go and run a marathon, but like go and like do a 20-minute interval or even 10-minute, whatever, something, you know.
So you said sleep is important for lowering the risk of injury, generally speaking.
And pain, yeah.
And pain, yes.
But if you're getting a poor night's sleep or a couple poor nights' sleep...
Do you still think people should go and train or is the risk for, let's say, injury with like resistance training, is it going to be significantly higher or should you just go and lift some weights?
I like that term, the auto-regulate, because it's really applicable to so many different situations that people are in.
But since you brought up the women, there's also a whole class of women that are post-menopausal.
And some of them maybe perhaps haven't lifted weights before.
They've noticed that even though they're eating the same –
calorie-wise, that as they hit menopause, for some reason, they're getting a little more belly fat without necessarily taking in more calories.
Like, you know, there's something that's happening that they're not, it's not the same.
Like, how do you approach that?
Like, is it like, do they need to lift?
Is that the secret sauce?
Do they need to lift more if they are lifting and it's still kind of hard?
where the calories come into the picture as well.
Again, like I said, even if they're already haven't really changed their calories, it just hit menopause.
And then, you know, they get that sort of belly fat accumulating easier.
Do you think that a postmenopausal woman that increases their –
their volume of resistance training versus let's say, you know, getting on a Peloton and doing spin or, you know, endurance.
Like, do you think there's a difference in, in helping compensate for some of those changes in their, their, their physical activity that they're not thinking about?
Cause you're getting more muscle mass or does it,
It's never too late.
What about – there's a lot of people that are older adults.
So let's say they're 65 or older and maybe they are just starting out and let's say they have joint issues.
And I think you kind of addressed this with the pain and I want to just confirm this.
So for these people, let's say, that are older, they have joint issues –
If they just start like with like lighter weights, just start with the like low exposure where they're just doing something and training and their muscles are adapting, their joints are adapting.
Is that sort of the approach you would take with older adults?
I think this is a good segue too for the other signal of increasing muscle mass that we talked a lot about, the mechanical signal.
Tension and the training, which is the biggest.
Most important.
Most important factor for not only just muscle mass and function, but like we're talking about brain, overall health, bone density, just the list goes on and on, right?
Well, that's kind of – I wanted to get your thoughts on – so I have had Stu Phillips and Luke Van Loon, Brad Schoenfeld.
We've talked about protein requirements, talking about getting the biggest bang for your buck with your training, 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight.
I know you've talked about that as well.
I kind of wanted to get your thoughts on like what do you think about like earning your protein?
So there is this sort of focus on protein intake right now.
Like there's a lot of influencers talking about it.
It's in the blogosphere, social media.
But like does someone need to focus on their protein intake as much if they're just sitting around not exercising, not training?
What do you –
Does it help, let's say, if you look at the NHANES studies and people on average, well, depending on their age, but like younger adults, let's say people that are like 40 and younger, they're getting on average about 1.5 grams per kilogram body weight.
Now, older adults, more like 1.2, but that's their average consumption.
So...
Do you still think focusing on the protein, knowing like what they're – I mean I guess for older adults.
But I'd love to hear what your take is.
What about – have you seen Luke Van Loon's study, the overnight like muscle protein synthesis giving protein like before bed and stimulating while you're sleeping?
You're like building protein and – I mean does that add something to – I tell people – OK.
You're bringing up a really – what I think is a really important point, Lane, because – and particularly coming from you who – you do really look a lot at randomized controlled trials and the meta-analysis and evidence.
But the reality is, is that in many cases –
They're almost, they can be set up to fail from the beginning because they're underpowered, like you said, and we have this obsession with statistical significance.
I mean, we had to do something, right?
But at the end of the day, as you said, it's like, well, there's a trend, 11%.
Maybe if we had 40 people instead of six, probably we'd see, you know, but then it comes down to then, okay, well, I like how you're speaking about it, where it's like, okay, well, this is what the evidence shows.
This is my truth serum.
This is what I really think.
Yeah.
And I think that's important too because even people that are influencers that are interpreting studies, randomized controlled trials, we can be very harsh on the results.
But at the end of the day, these randomized controlled trials were designed for drugs where –
people don't have any of this in their system before the drug.
What about for people, two things.
One, like endurance athletes, like really just training hard, like marathon runners.
And then two, people that are...
In a caloric deficit, trying to lose body fat, does increasing their protein – I mean, I don't know above 2, but above the 1.6 and maybe to the 2.
Like, are there situations where increasing that protein does make a difference in –
Okay.
This is – I want to kind of shift gears and talk about some hot topics, I guess, in the fitness and health world.
Yeah.
Starting with seed oils.
Well, it's an interesting one.
I –
avoid them.
I try to mostly avoid them.
I mean, at home, olive oil is what I use for cooking, for everything.
But I also think they've been overly demonized in the fitness and health world.
And I know that many of our listeners that are listening, watching, have heard a lot of conflicting information about sea turtles.
But maybe you could start with just summarizing what sea turtles are and why are they such a controversial topic?
Can I interrupt for a second?
Because you're talking about the Mendelian randomization studies, and I do want to talk about carnivore diets in a minute too.
But I've heard a lot in that community, these studies that are cited, low LDL is actually a higher predictor of all-cause mortality and early death.
Yeah, after age 65, yeah.
Right.
But those studies that you were just talking about, to me, are the argument against that because they're showing people with natural PCSK9, when they're having a lower level of it, and they have naturally just lower levels of LDL throughout their life, they have a lower all-cause mortality.
They have a lower cardiovascular-related mortality.
So to me, it's like, well,
The low LDL because they got sick or old or whatever is causing their LDL to drop.
It's a correlation.
Certainly in the cohort studies.
Yeah.
So the seed oils, so far the randomized controlled trial evidence doesn't suggest it increases cardiovascular disease.
Doesn't suggest it increases inflammatory biomarkers, at least in the randomized.
Yeah, not CRP or.
CRP and some of the, yeah.
Now the heated versus the non-heated.
And this is where I kind of.
think seed oils can be bad and that it does have to do with what you said about cohort evidence is true, right?
Because you're right.
You can't know, are they just frying all this like terrible food and there's too many confounders, right?
There's too many confounders.
But there are very few, three or four studies that have interestingly
Compared, heating serum seed oils, a lot of times it's safflower oil.
They'll heat it or even do repeated heating.
Once I did 20 and did not, and then made muffins, the same muffins.
I thought it was a great study, the 20 times heated oil versus just the cool, not heated oil.
And the heated oils did increase inflammatory markers and
They increased oxidized LDL.
And so – and like I said, too few studies really comparing just non-heated with heated.
Because essentially, a lot of those randomized controlled trials showing no effect on inflammation with seed oils, they were giving them pills that were – they weren't cooking the seed oil, right?
They were just putting it in the pill.
So –
I do think there's a strong possibility based on the very limited evidence so far that heated seed oils might cause more inflammation compared to consuming them, certainly in whole foods, but even just like putting it on a salad.
I don't know.
What are your thoughts?
Well, we have options too, right?
What about avocado oil or olive oil?
Do you think that maybe just getting one of those options?
What about the phenol, polyphenols in olive oil?
There's some studies showing like randomized controlled trials showing a beneficial effect just from on cardiovascular disease with olive oil.
Well, let's talk about the other thing you mentioned that is definitely a hot topic, which is the refined sugar.
And I know you've delved deeply into this topic.
It's a lot of reading of the evidence.
It's something that you've talked about.
I want to ask you if you view consuming refined sugar, particularly in the form of sugar-sweetened beverages, like something that's just liquid and sugar, if calories are the same, if people aren't over-consuming calories, do you think –
that's something that is still inert, not that harmful?
Or do you think perhaps there's a reason to say, I mean, maybe we shouldn't drink sugar-sweetened beverage.
Like, you know, I know you don't like to say that because then there's the whole psychology part, but there's diet sodas, right?
But they're both sugar.
Right.
So what about not consuming, just consuming water?
Oh, okay.
Good, good, good.
Water versus any sugar.
Like it doesn't have to be glucose or fructose.
Well, I'm talking about a specific type of sugar without a food matrix, right?
It's a liquid, 40 grams in a can.
If you have two of those, it's 80, right?
So I'm just saying like consuming a high sugar beverage with no food matrix, not like substituting a carbohydrate food because it's different.
No, that doesn't make any sense.
Okay, so non-nutritive sweeteners.
There's definitely the artificial sweeteners that you're talking about, the sucralose, the aspartame, saccharin, right?
And there's the more natural ones, monk fruit, stevia.
What I'm getting from you, and I just want to make sure it's clear, is that people that are consuming these sugar-sweetened beverages, if they substitute them with like a diet soda, which has aspartame, am I right?
Okay.
Then it's clearly a benefit.
Studies show it.
They're losing weight.
I mean, you know.
Getting more metabolically healthy.
More metabolically healthy.
Let's talk about someone who doesn't drink sodas, like, that are sugar-sweetened, and they're lean, and they kind of just – like, there's some people out there that, like, diet Coke a day.
Like, not because they are getting off of their Coke habit, but because they, like, diet Coke for whatever reason.
Maybe it's the caffeine.
Maybe something about the taste.
I don't know what it is, but those people exist.
Sure.
So diet Coke a day, you know –
What is that?
Do you feel confident that... You talked a lot about the aspartame data, and it definitely seems a little bit all over the place.
Cancer does take, of course, decades to occur, and there's a cumulative damage, and dose may matter, maybe one a day.
But is there an uncertainty there that you might say, well, maybe we don't really know at the end of the day?
You drink a Diet Coke a day and not feel like you're increasing your mortality or cancer?
Like the carnivore diet.
I definitely want to talk to you about that.
You talked about it a little bit.
You know, it's kind of like the seed oil thing, you know, where it's like you've taken it head on.
And I like talking about it.
I really want to talk about it with you because I don't think people can accuse you as the anti-meat guy, clearly.
There's clearly a lot of people that experience benefits from going on a carnivore diet, an all-meat diet.
I also hear them say things like plants are bad for you.
You mentioned that.
Fiber is bad for you.
Interesting.
I'm trying to figure out where that's coming from.
But, you know, what's your take on it like in terms of, you know,
Why they're experiencing the benefits.
You kind of talked a little bit about it.
Why they're experiencing some of these benefits.
Like autoimmune disease is a big one, right?
Their autoimmune issues kind of resolved.
But like long term.
For some people.
Yeah.
But long term, you know, like...
We don't have.
Do we have even data on this?
No, there's no data.
So there's a lot of belief in this based on how you feel, I guess, or perhaps some biomarkers.
But, you know, plants are bad for you.
Fiber is bad for you.
Like what's your take?
Clearly there's something going on.
People are experiencing things that are real.
Not to mention the micronutrients, vitamins and minerals.
That are co-ingested along with that.
In those plants and fruits, yeah.
I 100% agree that there's just an overwhelming amount of evidence that fiber is beneficial.
Plants, vegetables, fruits are beneficial.
There's randomized controlled trials.
There's observational data.
I mean you just – you can't ignore that.
Okay.
We're running out of time.
I do... There's another topic I want to cover.
I also want to ask you about personal routine, but the topic is something that you and I have probably butted heads with a little bit, at least on social media in the past years ago.
I don't know that it's been recent.
And that has to do with time-restricted eating and a form of intermittent fasting.
So...
My question to you is, well, first of all, I want to say this.
Over the years, my...
view of certain benefits of what I think of time-restricted eating has changed as more data has come in, and specifically referring to the fact that there are studies out there that have calculated if people are just in their free-living environment and they're naturally doing time-restricted eating, and they actually are doing it, they do decrease their calorie intake.
Correct.
Between 200 to 500, depending on how short of a time window they're eating their food.
And so if you don't consider the calories that they are restricting, the weight loss benefits seem to go away when you then consider the calories.
So in other words, if they aren't restricting calories, the time-restricted effect on weight loss seems to go away.
That's correct.
Now, so I didn't always believe that, but as more data came out, I now say, okay, well, this seems to be –
Real, for sure.
There are a lot of types of time-restricted eating.
There's like six-hour window you're eating in, eight-hour window.
There's even 10 hours, which I don't think you're going to get a big difference if you're comparing 10 to 12.
But other effects of time-restricted eating, do you think –
You know, there is a circadian component to time-restricted eating, right?
There is a circadian component.
You are eating, you know, humans are diurnal creatures.
We're eating within our time window when our circadian rhythm is more metabolically inclined to process glucose and fatty acids and everything, right?
Do you think there is a possibility of a benefit of time-restricted eating, like independent of calories?
Blood pressure.
Have you seen the blood pressure one?
I haven't seen the blood pressure one.
That's the six-hour – I think it was Verde from Chicago.
Blood pressure was – it was – again, calories were equated, so there was no weight loss.
Yeah.
There was the fasting blood glucose, but the blood pressure was – that was the thing that was most interesting to me because it was like size effects that you get with antihypertensive treatment drugs, which was very interesting.
And so that's something – I mean there's – again, you're getting into the potential cardiometabolic effects.
There needs to be more research, but I just wanted to see if you were – what your stance is.
Got it.
I think a lot of people are interested in what Lane's weekly routine is, like in terms of your – the workout, your diet, supplement.
Is there like a supplement that is – in the fitness industry you think is like a no-brainer that people should be taking?
So I'd love to kind of end with your personal routine.
Is there a reason you train in the afternoon?
Is it – I just feel better.
What kind of dose for the creatine?
Do you think it causes, does the water, is the water gain?
People are worried about an insulin response from protein powder.
What dose?
I recently got interested in this, in rhodiola rosavans, and I ordered it, and I have it.
And it was because of the mental, potential mental effects.
Totally.
Well, I mean – and you're going to help them get that information.
People can find you.
You have a YouTube channel, social media, book.
You want to call out everything.
I mean there's – I'm sure a lot of people already know where to find you.
But for those few that don't.
A lot of options there for someone or anyone.
Well, that's for sure.
I absolutely enjoyed having a conversation with you, Lane.
It's too bad that it had to be cut a little bit short.
We could keep going for another couple hours, but I think that means we have to do this again.
I would love to because... Anytime.
Yeah.
And again, thanks again for coming on, for everything you do.
And I look forward to continuing following you and seeing what's up.
And again, possibly around to you soon.
That'd be fun.
A huge thank you to Dr. Lane Norton for coming out in person to have this discussion with me.
And a big thank you to all of you for listening.
You can learn more about Lane at biolane.com or try his calorie tracking app at joincarbon.com.
We also talked about fish oil in this episode.
If you're wondering which fish oil brands are truly top quality, I've put together a free guide that highlights the most important factors to consider when choosing a fish oil supplement, along with a few brands that have passed rigorous third-party testing.
This omega-3 supplementation guide also covers optimal dosing, and it addresses common concerns.
Download your free omega-3 guide at fmfomegathreaguide.com.
Once again, that's fmfomegathreaguide.com.
And lastly, if you have genetic data from a DNA testing service like 23andMe or AncestryDNA, check out our fitness genetic report available at foundmyfitness.com forward slash genetics.
This report zeroes in on genes that have credible impact on aspects of fitness.
We break down the genetic impact of factors like endurance, VO2 max improvement, muscle fatigue, and injury susceptibility, all sided with actual peer-reviewed evidence.
To get your free fitness report, head over to foundmyfitness.com forward slash genetics and scroll down to the basic free report section.
Thank you all for listening.
I appreciate your support and I'll talk to you soon.
Protein is fundamentally the engine of our biology.
At the cellular level, it's indispensable.
Without protein, our cells can't perform their essential functions.
We rely on proteins to build, repair, and maintain our tissues.
They're key catalysts in nearly every biochemical reaction, impacting everything from DNA replication and hormone synthesis to immune regulation.
It's safe to say that almost no biological activity happens without the involvement of proteins.
Consider this.
Every single day, our bodies renew and replace around 300 grams of protein.
That's roughly the same weight as a can of Campbell's chicken soup.
Yet, despite its crucial role, many of us don't spend much time thinking about protein.
It's not just about muscle.
protein synthesis is critical in all tissues.
Factors like age, physical activity, and gender all play a role in how much protein we need.
And while most people know they need to eat protein daily and understand which foods contain it, few truly grasp its importance to overall health or how to ensure they're getting enough.
In today's episode, we're joined by Dr. Luke Van Loon, a renowned expert in exercise physiology and nutrition, who will be delivering a masterclass on the crucial role of dietary protein and muscle protein synthesis and how muscles adapt to physical activity.
Dr. Van Loon has significantly advanced our understanding in this area through his extensive research.
We'll also dive deep into the essential nature of protein for our bodies, exploring the continuous cycle of muscle protein turnover and how it shapes our dietary protein need.
We'll discuss how factors like age, weight, and activity affect how much protein we require.
One of the most common questions people have about dietary protein is, how much do I need each day?
Dr. Van Loon will discuss evidence-based recommendations for dietary protein intake that support muscle building, fat loss, and strength maintenance as we age.
Additionally, we'll look at how to optimize protein distribution throughout the day, identify the best sources of protein, and discuss strategies to prevent anabolic resistance, a condition often associated with aging, but might be preventable with sufficient activity.
I promise that after this episode, you will have a better understanding of how to optimize your protein intake to reach your goals.
Other topics discussed in this episode include, should people who resistance train eat one gram of protein per pound of body weight?
Whether you should alter your protein intake when dieting for weight loss?
Why anabolic resistance could be the result of reduced physical activity?
How to calculate your protein requirement if you're overweight?
Whether consuming one large dose of protein is the same as consuming several smaller doses throughout the day?
tips for gaining muscle mass while practicing time-restricted eating, whether you should consume protein before or after resistance training, which is better for stimulating muscle protein synthesis, casein or whey protein, why animal protein is more effective for hypertrophy, and what to do if you're eating a plant-based diet, which is a better protein supplement, protein isolate or concentrate, does collagen supplementation benefit the skin, and so much more.
Although protein takes the spotlight when it comes to talking about nutrients for muscle building,
Did you know that omega-3 fatty acids may also play a role in maintaining muscle health?
Recent research has made it clear that omega-3s can prevent muscle wasting and muscle atrophy associated with aging and disuse.
If there is one other nutrient that deserves your attention for its effect on muscle health, it's omega-3s.
To help you figure out a strategy around omega-3 supplementation,
My team and I put together a brand new report, the Omega-3 Supplementation Guide.
It's the result of thorough evidence-based research packed into a handy 13-page PDF.
Best of all, it's free.
You can download your copy at fmfomegathreaguide.com.
In this guide, you'll learn how to choose a quality omega-3 fatty acid supplement along with some of the top picks based on third-party testing.
You'll learn how to determine the best dose for your needs and find answers to frequently asked questions about omega-3s.
I highly recommend you take a moment to download this free guide.
Again, you can find that at fmfomegathreaguide.com.
I'll also mention that if you want more details on the topics discussed and the research covered in this interview, you need to check out our super comprehensive episode show notes, which are jam-packed with science.
These notes can serve as a standalone resource, a compliment to this episode, or an expansion of everything that Luke and I talk about, including in-depth results of studies mentioned during our interview, graphs, charts, and more.
We've chosen to provide the Omega-3 Supplementation Guide for free as a part of our commitment to empower you with the tools you need to support your health and fitness goals.
At Found My Fitness, we're really aspiring to make sure that our free content is comprehensive, exciting, and at the cutting edge of what's happening in science.
Thank you so much for watching.
Visit foundmyfitness.com and click the Become a Member button at the top of the page to unlock your member benefits and help support what we are doing at Found My Fitness.
And now enjoy my discussion with Dr. Luke Van Loon.
I'm delighted to be sitting here with Luke Van Loon, who is a professor at Maastricht University in Netherlands.
He is well known for his significant contributions in the field of exercise and nutrition, particularly looking at how protein metabolism affects muscle adaptations, how exercise affects protein turnover.
I'm very excited to have a discussion with you today, Luke.
Maybe we could start at the beginning.
Why protein is important?
Why we need protein?
So there's protein requirements that have been established by a variety of committees, World Health Organization.
And those protein requirements are generally 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram body weight.
Can you tell people what...
evidence that those requirements were established on or how that was based, where it came from?
So you said people in the studies that were used to determine the requirement or being in neutral, at least being in the neutral balance.
Were these people older, younger?
Were they mostly sedentary, physically active?
Or is any of that, you know, what's known and what's not known?
So how is that that people that are consuming really low-protein diets... I personally don't subscribe to that type of diet myself, but there are many people, as you said, that do consume low-protein diets, whether it's by choice or not.
But you're right, they don't disappear.
I mean, when you get to the extreme level, they look like they lost a lot of muscle.
But is there some sort of...
adaptation in other organs that change the way protein is distributed or absorbed?
Okay.
What about people that are engaged in resistance training?
So you are putting a stress on your muscle and obviously there's going to probably increase the turnover as well.
So how much do the demands in terms of protein requirements go up?
Now, I know it probably depends a lot on what your goals are.
Are your goals to be an elite bodybuilder or are your goals to stave off muscle atrophy?
But it'd be nice to have, you know, what are some of the requirements for protein intake with people that are engaged in
frequent resistance training, also some aerobic conditioning, not elite athletes, just regular people that are committed to health.
And also, I hear a lot in the bodybuilding community that you should just eat one gram of protein per pound, which is 2.2 grams per kilogram body weight.
I'd love to know what your thoughts are on that as well.
What about people that are not in energy balance?
Let's say there are people that are undergoing energy restriction to change body composition.
Do protein requirements... Is it beneficial to change protein requirements and perhaps increase them in that specific condition?
How does resistance training and training in general change the way the muscle responds to amino acids?
Okay, so is that kind of why you were saying when you, let's say you're training and then you increase your protein intake to 1.6 to 1.8, let's say you're going higher and you're doing that for a while and your body adapts to that.
When you say they adapt, like, for example, with respect to the extreme, like, low-protein diet level, I mean, they adapt, but, you know, they're not building muscle.
Is that correct?
Until they get older, and then it's harder to stay in the balance if you're not getting enough protein?
Well, what about, you've done some research on anabolic resistance, and maybe you can explain to people what anabolic resistance is and how that is relevant in terms of protein intake for older adults.
Okay, so if I'm understanding correctly, most of the anabolic resistance with older age is attenuated with physical activity, resistance training, just being physically active?
Well, that's pretty incredible because...
You're right.
A lot of people do, as they get older, they do become less physically active.
Certainly people that aren't necessarily focused on their exercise, right?
I mean, just normal people that are kind of more active perhaps when they're in their job and then they retire and then they're not as active.
I mean, that's probably the biggest, I think, for the general population, the biggest problem is when they then retire and then they're just sitting at home and then no longer physically active.
So knowing that anabolic resistance can be overcome by physical activity is...
mostly overcome is, I think, extremely important for public health.
Before we kind of dive into some of that a little bit more, you mentioned something about being overweight and obese with respect to protein requirements.
Because in the United States, many people are overweight and obese.
And people listening to this podcast might look at that number, 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight, and directly translate that to their weight, which could be quite high.
So how does a person who is overweight and obese, perhaps it's not as important because they're probably, like you said, they're consuming enough food so they don't have to worry about it, but there are anal people that want to think about calculations no matter what.
How does that person approach how much protein they should be taking in when they are obese or overweight?
So most people aren't going and measuring their fat-free mass, but that is something that can be done.
People can go get, would you say, doing a DEXA scan would be something that would be more or less similar?
Yeah.
With respect to the resistance training, sort of how it's tied to protein intake and increases in muscle mass and even strength would be something I'm interested in because there have been some meta-analyses.
Stu Phillips did a really nice one where they looked at increasing protein intake and increases in...
They said lean body mass and then also strength.
And what kind of was striking to me and stood out to me was that with increasing amounts of protein, so when you start to get up to, like, for younger people, 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight was associated with a modest amount
increase in muscle mass, but it was very minor increase in strength.
And these were people that were doing resistance training.
And the same went for elderly.
They started to actually have increases in muscle mass at a little bit lower.
They were 1.2 grams per kilogram body weight.
And it was the same thing, modest increases in muscle mass and minor increases in strength.
And that's where
I felt like I thought muscle mass strength was easier to gain with resistance training than muscle mass.
So I'm wondering, is this something to do with measuring lean body mass or maybe just the resistance training program wasn't
Can you give a little bit of a range in terms of maybe not exact because you probably don't know, but with respect to that time course, so like when you start to do resistance training and your strength is going up, like you said, like how much longer of a lag before you start to perhaps visually see or even if you're measuring it can see increases in actual muscle mass?
Okay.
Maybe we can talk, we can get into that a little bit more in a minute.
I wanted to kind of continue on the nutrition part with protein distribution.
You've done a lot of research in this area as well.
And I had done some reading preparing for this podcast on like some of the nutritional surveys that are done in the United States called NHANES in terms of like how are people typically eating
distributing their protein amongst their meals.
And I think probably it's very similar to what's found in Europe where people are eating the majority of their protein is skewed towards their evening meal, their last meal of the day.
And in most cases, at least with respect to this NHANES data, it's about three times the amount of protein in their evening meal versus their morning meal or even their afternoon meal.
Yeah.
Does it matter with respect to, you know, how the muscle responds to amino acids throughout the day?
Like, is it better to evenly have your protein evenly distributed or can you skew it in the evening and still have the same?
I don't want to just say increases in muscle protein synthesis because, as you mentioned, that doesn't always translate to gains in muscle mass.
People are more interested in gains in muscle mass.
So let's leave it with that end point.
So let's talk a little bit about that study since you brought it up because it was surprising to many people.
Maybe you can talk a little bit about the difference in terms of the quantity.
It was like 100 grams of protein versus what has previously been shown, maybe 30, I think, grams of protein was something that's been shown in terms of maximizing.
Now, this was muscle protein synthesis that you were looking at?
Unless it's your last meal of the evening.
Good point.
So the question then is, if it's your last meal in the evening and, you know, let's say you've already distributed your protein intake fairly decently in your first two meals.
Some people will talk about a minute time-restricted eating and caloric restriction.
And let's say you want to go a little higher for your, maybe not all the way to 100 grams, but, you know, 60, whatever.
Then...
Would you, if you speculate on this, and there's two parts to this question, would you think that the increase in muscle protein synthesis would be higher if you had ingested 60 grams of protein in that last meal versus 25 throughout the evening?
Like we're talking like 12, 20 hours.
And also, what if you then wake up in the morning and then you have again your first meal, right?
Is that going to change the muscle protein synthesis or are you better off having that meal higher?
Are you really maximizing it?
What about people, so time-restricted eating, you mentioned a lot of people do practice time-restricted eating and they're eating in an eight-hour window and they're fasting for 16 hours.
And you've done some research in this area as well.
So eating that large protein bolus with your last meal,
You know, what if it's earlier and it's not like right before sleep because you have your feeding window, your eating window, and then you have your fasting window?
Do you think based on your study with the 100 grams of protein, really extreme case, that that protein will be digested longer and incorporated into muscle for muscle protein synthesis?
Yes.
Right.
I think there's now been many, many studies that have done that have found that people naturally doing time-restricted eating in their free-living conditions on average reduce their calorie intake by about 200 calories per day.
And that's just natural because people don't snack or they don't eat that dessert because they are trying to restrict their meals into a shorter time period.
But, and I think you've even shown this in other studies, many studies have shown, while if you do keep calories the same, you will not lose fat-free mass and weight, right?
Then the glucose homeostasis is still improved by not eating carbs.
in a huge, you know, like by restricting your time eating window shorter to let's say eight hours, you know, in some cases 10, but mostly eight, even shorter than that six hours.
So there are people also that are very interested in their glucose homeostasis that, you know, want to eat within a shorter time window as well.
But the question then goes is, well, if they're skipping meals or skipping snacks, then they're potentially skipping protein intake, right?
If someone is doing the time-restricted eating schedule where they're eating within an eight-hour window, then they really do need to make sure they're not losing their protein, correct?
So let me rephrase my question.
For someone who is doing time-restricted eating in an eight-hour window, fasting for 16 hours, and they're engaged in resistance training at least three times a week minimum, and they're taking in their protein, they're not missing their protein.
Yes.
Can they gain muscle mass?
Can they gain it?
I have a question.
So we were talking about protein distribution and perhaps it being beneficial to more evenly distribute protein.
protein.
But how does physical activity, because you said physical activity sensitizes, I mean, you said it sensitizes muscle to amino acids.
How does that, does that change whether, I mean, you would think that in the background of someone who's physically active, does all these other little differences matter?
Well, the thing that's so interesting about this recent study that you published on the higher dose of protein and that being incorporated into muscle is, so if you have that 24-hour anabolic window, as you're saying, and you're going to be more sensitive to amino acids throughout that 24 hours, of course, then every meal, so if you have 10 meals on the extreme end, okay, every 10 times of protein, you're going to be sensitive to that protein because it's still within that 24-hour window.
Right.
However, if you don't have time because you're working, as you said, to eat three or four or five meals throughout the day, it's also nice to know that you can go a little further than 30 grams in those, let's say, three meals and perhaps still get a similar amount of muscle protein synthesis.
In fact, let me ask you to speculate.
Let's say a person did two people or the same person and you did a crossover study where they do both conditions.
They're doing their resistance training.
Their anabolic window is 24 hours.
They're sensitive to the amino acids.
The first time they're eating, you know, let's say...
what, 80 grams of protein, they're doing that within five meals, or they're going to do it within three.
Do you think they'll have the same amount of gains in muscle mass?
Okay, so it is... It's pure theory, of course.
Yeah, speculation.
Essentially, it sounds like, certainly in the context of training in the background, that you can skew your protein somewhat with your meals and still not be missing out on what you otherwise would gain in muscle mass.
Absolutely.
That's the essential thing.
That's the baseline, right?
It's true.
It's absolutely true.
And I'd like to continue on the nutrition because you've done so much research in this area, but I want to get to the training.
But we've been talking about protein, like this general thing, like protein.
And so there's food sources of protein.
There's supplemental sources of protein.
There's plant sources of protein, meat sources of protein.
So I was kind of wanting to start maybe with just let's talk about animal sources because most people are eating meat and fish and poultry.
And dairy, yes.
In terms of skeletal muscle protein synthesis, in terms of gaining muscle mass, if you're having the same amount of protein on a gram basis from food versus a protein shake, and it probably will depend on the type of protein shake, but is there going to be differences in gains in muscle mass?
Okay.
So, of course, there's differences because if you're eating food, you're getting vitamins and minerals and fatty acids and all the other important micronutrients and macronutrients that are required for eating.
But when you say sluggish, I mean, do you just mean delayed?
It's essentially those amino acids will get to the muscle, but it'll take longer?
Correct.
Okay.
Well, in that sense, I mean, we're talking in the absolute sense gains in muscle mass, then it doesn't really make a difference if you're doing the animal source.
We're talking about animal source right now.
Okay.
But, of course, people are also interested in not getting, if they're doing caloric restriction and basically trying to change their body composition, protein shakes can help with that if they're lower in calories, lower in fat, and then you're getting your protein without the other fat sources.
Is there a difference with respect to the source of protein supplements?
So, for example, if it's sourced from casein versus whey versus egg white protein with respect to, we're talking about skeletal muscle protein synthesis and presumably increases the muscle mass.
Oh, egg white as well?
So you're talking about in the real world here, you think maybe to most people those differences aren't so important.
To some they are, like the ones that are really optimizing every just little thing.
But what about in the context of research and data that's not, like you compare studies and someone's using casein and then you got whey and then their time when they do it, maybe the casein hadn't all been absorbed.
So conflicting data, I mean, methodological differences seems like it might be.
Now, are these important?
So when you're saying that it's a greater stimulation in skeletal muscle protein synthesis at the time you measured, but will they normalize eventually over time so that it's less of a difference in the real world, more of a difference in the lab in terms of when you're studying?
Yeah, it's good to differentiate that.
I want to kind of shift back and talk about the protein source because we've talked about the animal source, we've talked about supplemental sources of protein from animal products.
But there's also a large percentage of people that are vegetarian and vegan, don't consume any animal products.
So maybe you can tell people a little bit about the differences between food sources, plant sources of protein versus animal sources of protein sources.
So vegans that are interested in gaining muscle mass, obviously preserving muscle mass, but also gaining muscle mass with their resistance training programs, they can supplement with plant-based protein powder sources that will allow them to, on a gram-per-gram basis, especially if it's a high enough dose, gain the same muscle mass as someone doing, let's say...
animal-based protein supplements potentially?
And what about, so you mentioned pea protein is what you looked at in your study and compared it to dairy when 30 grams and 30 grams, there was no difference in terms of skeletal muscle protein synthesis.
What about, so is pea protein different from rice protein in terms of its amino acid composition?
Is there a protein powder that's better perhaps for vegans that are interested in increasing their muscle mass?
So you mentioned lysine and methionine.
Maybe you can explain to people why those are also important.
You mentioned leucine and how that stimulates mTOR, and that's important for muscle protein synthesis.
But why is lysine and methionine important?
And then maybe also what would be a good combination of plant-sourced protein powders perhaps to get all those?
Like you said, pea protein, is there something else in combination with pea that would cover all the bases?
And then sprouting, I think also some of the, you can get sprouted quinoa source of protein where it's getting away some of the, as you mentioned, like some of these anti-nutritional components, like the fiber matrix that are, you know, in some cases, other lectins and they're sort of inhibiting some of the absorption of protein.
What about protein isolate versus concentrate?
Is it better to consume protein isolate for higher protein?
If someone's interested in lower fat content and more protein content.
Protein isolate, okay.
So we've talked about leucine and how it's very important for activating mTOR.
Can you talk a little bit about the leucine threshold and how resistance training, physical activity changes that leucine threshold?
So here's another question for you.
I know that exercise causes branched-chain amino acids like leucine to be taken up into skeletal muscle, like from circulation.
So leucine, these amino acids are doing lots of things in multiple tissues.
It's going into the brain.
It's getting transported in the brain, for example.
But the exercise causes more leucine to be taken up into skeletal muscle.
So does that...
I don't know if it's proper to even call it the leucine threshold, but can you then take in more leucine and get it more into the muscle where it used to be like, oh, after three grams or whatever, then you're not going to really do much more.
Do you think exercise would, in a way, almost make it where you could consume even more leucine?
Well, it kind of leads me to this next question that has to do with cardiovascular disease.
And I'm sure you saw this headline that claimed high-protein diets.
It was an animal study that claimed getting 22% of your calories from protein was going to cause atherosclerosis.
There was some human data in that study looking specifically at and identifying, they identified leucine as a major driver of this because leucine in circulation activates macrophages, which are one part of the bigger, larger story in atherosclerosis.
I was wondering what your thoughts are on, I know it's not your study, but on high protein diets.
I mean, first of all, can you even translate that sort of study to humans when you're consuming 22% of your calories from protein and that's causing atherosclerosis?
Yes, and I think they had some other markers of arteriosclerosis as well, but yes.
Right.
And that's where exercise and physical activity is key because you are not only, you know, I mean, most of the time you are, of course, burning energy.
So you can consume more, but your muscle is taking up glucose.
It's taking up the protein.
It's taking up leucine.
So it's not in circulation activating macrophages, right?
So the exercise, and there's even been studies that have looked at, for example, people that are consuming meat versus a vegan source of protein and how cancer mortality is higher in these meat eaters.
It's all-cause mortality is higher in meat eaters.
But when you then do a subgroup analysis and you say, okay,
I only want the meat eaters that have no unhealthy lifestyle factors.
So they're not sedentary.
They're not overweight, obese.
They're not smoking and they're not consuming excess alcohol.
Guess what?
Their cancer mortality and all-cause mortality was the same as people consuming the plant protein.
So if you are going to be unhealthy and obese and sedentary and smoke, perhaps you shouldn't eat
a lot of protein, 22% of your calories shouldn't be coming from protein.
But certainly when you're physically active and you're healthy and you're not overweight and obese and you're not smoking, you probably shouldn't be worried about getting atherosclerosis by eating protein.
I agree.
Context matters 100% and that's really important to keep in mind.
And it's often the observational data and animal data that loses that context.
Yeah, I completely agree.
I mean, it's so different when you're talking about a mouse in a cage that's sedentary and not physically active.
And it's so hard to compare that sort of study to a physically active person, you know, as well.
Their baselines are different.
Talking about resistance training adaptations, this is another area that you've done a lot of research in.
Can you tell people a little bit about muscle memory and how the muscle adapts to repeated bouts of resistance training?
Now, you've also been involved in some research looking at exercise frequency.
And I mean, presumably recovery is part of that equation in terms of if you're frequently working out and doing resistance training, is there a diminishing returns in terms of gaining muscle mass?
Is there a frequency that can be done to maximize muscle growth and also recovery?
In terms of recovery, if you're working certain muscle groups, is it good to wait 24 hours, 48 hours?
Is that still more of a personalized sliding scale?
You've published a study looking at an aging population.
So you did older adults and then also elderly.
So these are people like 85 years old.
And you show they could have improvements in muscle mass and strength after engaging in a resistance training program.
If there are some people out there who are, you know, older adults and elderly who perhaps want to start a resistance training program, are there any sort of exercises that you think might be just, you know, beneficial to start with for improvements in muscle mass and strength?
Yeah, that makes sense.
I have a question regarding women and their response to adaptations from resistance training, either premenopausal versus postmenopausal, or postmenopausal with or without hormone replacement therapy.
So in other words, how the adaptations change with estrogen and progesterone and testosterone, more hormones around that.
Yeah, it's just so powerful.
So testosterone does play a role in the context of these people that are not physically active.
And then they start to lose more muscle.
But you can basically attenuate that if you are...
There's a saying that our mutual friend Stu Phillips says, and I really like this saying, is that exercise forgives a lot of sins.
And I'm seeing that recurring theme in not just exercise physiology, but in other fields as well.
I mean, it's just sleep deprivation being one.
I mean, insulin resistance goes up, glucose dysregulation, homeostasis out of control.
But doing exercise...
mostly can rescue a lot of that, even all-cause mortality increases.
Again, physical activity really can forgive some of those sins.
So it's really, you know, it's the best medicine.
I also think looking at it like I just called it a medicine, but, you know, yes, exercise is a treatment and that's like a general saying.
You hear people say exercise is a good medicine.
But honestly, I think sedentarism is a disease.
It's a disease.
I think, you know, obesity is a disease, type 2 diabetes is a disease.
It's an occupational hazard.
Sedentarism is a disease.
We're sitting.
I mean, so I do want to kind of shift gears because cold water immersion is an area that you have done research in.
And...
I'm personally interested in the neuroendocrine effects of cold water immersion.
A lot of physically active people are interested in using cold water immersion for recovery, for enhancing, sorry, for blunting inflammation of the muscle.
But you've shown, and maybe you can talk about your study, about doing cold water immersion immediately after resistance training can blunt some gains.
Do you think the timing of cold water immersion can affect whether or not you're going to blunt those gains?
And you said something that I picked up on, you said for six hours.
Do you think that if you do cold water immersion and you wait six hours after resistance training, that you would still affect muscle protein synthesis?
I mean, pure speculation.
So waiting for recovery days.
Now you mentioned endurance training, but there are studies showing that cold water immersion can enhance performance in endurance trainers and also enhance neuromuscular function.
You're talking about that.
Probably not as – these people aren't –
You know, the resistance training is really stimulating muscle.
So I'm wondering if you could do it perhaps on an endurance training day, maybe wait a few hours again.
Right, yeah.
So you're talking more at the elite level where they're really like the rowers or these runners that are incurring more damage on their muscle.
So if the cold water immersion is causing vasoconstriction, it's preventing the muscle perfusion, right?
The question is, how long does that last?
So the norepinephrine is the hormone that is regulating that, as you know, and that does go up even after just two minutes in cold.
So the question then goes, well, how long does that last?
So is it an eight-hour response?
Do you think it would be eight hours that it's going to be affecting people?
Or at the very least, it would be interesting to do a cold water immersion where it's not immediately after resistance training.
It's, you know, six, eight hours, maybe the next day.
Yeah, I guess the question is that, you know,
If you're doing resistance training and you wait six to eight hours after that training, will that cold water immersion blunt your gains?
You said maybe a little bit, maybe not.
Of course, yeah.
I want to shift gears and talk about collagen last because you've also been getting involved in some of this research and I'm very interested in hydrolyzed collagen powder for skin, for example, and skin aging.
And so I wanted to ask you if you think there are effects on supplemental hydrolyzed collagen powder that are independent of the muscle connective protein, which...
I think, if I'm correct, does not have a huge amount of collagen.
But do you think there are effects in maybe other tissues, like the joints, skin, for example, bone?
It's interesting, there's been a lot of people that think that hydrolyzed collagen powder doesn't actually go to cartilage, but there's been some animal studies that have radio-labeled hydrolyzed collagen powder, and it does go to cartilage.
Do you think that's applicable, like that's translatable to humans?
What about the role, the signaling?
You've been talking a lot about proline, hydroxyproline, glycine.
I mean, these are amino acids that are certainly in greater quantity in something like hydrolyzed collagen powder versus a protein source from food or even a protein powder.
But there's been a lot of, at least a lot of preclinical evidence looking at
these small peptides being signaling molecules in their tissues.
And there's been a lot of sort of, I would say, speculation that perhaps the signaling role of these collagen peptides may be as important, if not more important, than the incorporation of proline and hydroxyproline and glycine into tendons and skin.
Yeah.
The thing that really piqued my interest in that was there's been a few studies looking at very small amounts of hydrolyzed collagen powder.
I mean, amounts that you would get in a pill in people with giving them either the hydrolyzed collagen powder or a placebo in people with arthritis.
And the very, very small amount of hydrolyzed collagen powder was having...
an effect on reducing, you know, some of their, a lot of it's subjective, but there was also some inflammation that was reduced.
That's why I brought up the signaling molecule as well, because when I saw the doses, and these are placebo-controlled, it was very surprising to me.
I'm like, well, it's got to be something else going on.
The last thing about the hydrolyzed collagen powder I wanted to talk about was getting your thoughts on, you know, so typically hydrolyzed collagen powder is available in a wide variety of sizes.
So anywhere between 2 kilodollars to 10.
And there's some evidence that suggests perhaps that smaller, like two to five kilodaltons, those peptides are better absorbed, better used as signaling molecules, getting to the tissues better.
Like, for example, skin, getting smaller ones like two to three kilodaltons.
I mean, again, there's not an overwhelming amount of evidence on this.
It's really up and coming, and I think in its infancy.
But I just wanted to get your thoughts and any speculation as to why smaller, perhaps not the 10 kilodaltons, but maybe the two to five range might be
And what are your thoughts on the skin studies?
That's one area where, again, you mentioned tissues with a lot of collagen might be more important.
Well, the other interesting thing, too, would go back to that signaling role because, again, I've seen, and this is, as you mentioned, largely in vitro when scientists are looking at mechanistic potential explanations, is that these collagen peptides that are small, they're decreasing matrix metalloproteinases that are breaking down collagen.
They're increasing enzymes that are synthesizing collagen in the skin.
These are skin cells, fibroblasts, but...
Do you think there might be beneficial aspects to consuming a type of what you in some ways called low protein source because it doesn't have all the great amino acids for skeletal muscle protein synthesis?
But, you know, proline, hydroxyproline, glycine, it's high in arginine.
Arginine plays a role in, you know, our vascular system.
Do you think there could be a role just for consuming hydrolyzed collagen powder just for those amino acids that are a little more abundant in that type of protein source?
Yeah, I don't know that most people are consuming high amounts of proline and glycine and hydroxyproline from food sources unless they are eating the cartilage of their chicken and boiling the bone broth.
I mean, yes, some people are doing that, but the general population is not.
And so it is easier to take a hydrolyzed collagen powder, which has a much higher concentration of those specific amino acids, than eating a steak.
Do you know of a role that growth hormone plays in collagen synthesis?
Yeah, I mean, you increase growth hormone with exercise.
Well, thank you so much, Luke, for this very enlightening conversation, for all your research that you've done.
Before we, you know, before we leave, I'd like to ask one last question about your personal routine.
I mean, how you apply maybe some of the principles you've learned through your research and others for your nutrition, your exercise workout, like frequency, I mean, what you aim to do, perhaps what you do and what you aim to do.
And as I heard from you say earlier, you mostly don't eat a lot during the day and then eat most of your... Yes, but that's not a good thing.
Well, thank you so much, Luke, for coming on the show and talking about your research and the importance of protein and resistance training in muscle physiology.
A big thank you to Dr. Luke Van Loon for coming on the podcast and thank you for listening.
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What the study found, these are randomized controlled trials, placebo controlled, right? The multivitamin actually did improve brain aging. So they were less, people taking the multivitamin mineral supplement were less likely to experience cognitive dysfunction, memory loss. And in fact, they experienced a improvement in their brain aging that was equivalent to reversing two years of brain aging.
What the study found, these are randomized controlled trials, placebo controlled, right? The multivitamin actually did improve brain aging. So they were less, people taking the multivitamin mineral supplement were less likely to experience cognitive dysfunction, memory loss. And in fact, they experienced a improvement in their brain aging that was equivalent to reversing two years of brain aging.
What the study found, these are randomized controlled trials, placebo controlled, right? The multivitamin actually did improve brain aging. So they were less, people taking the multivitamin mineral supplement were less likely to experience cognitive dysfunction, memory loss. And in fact, they experienced a improvement in their brain aging that was equivalent to reversing two years of brain aging.
Wow. Okay. randomized control trial. Here we are 10 years later.
Wow. Okay. randomized control trial. Here we are 10 years later.
Wow. Okay. randomized control trial. Here we are 10 years later.
Well, first of all, Mark, I want to thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate what you do as well, and I also appreciate the kind words. So, sorry. Did I make you cry? Bruce Ames passed away a couple months ago, and he was my mentor and a very good friend of mine. Unbelievable guy. And it kind of a funny story about how I ended up in his lab.
Well, first of all, Mark, I want to thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate what you do as well, and I also appreciate the kind words. So, sorry. Did I make you cry? Bruce Ames passed away a couple months ago, and he was my mentor and a very good friend of mine. Unbelievable guy. And it kind of a funny story about how I ended up in his lab.
Well, first of all, Mark, I want to thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate what you do as well, and I also appreciate the kind words. So, sorry. Did I make you cry? Bruce Ames passed away a couple months ago, and he was my mentor and a very good friend of mine. Unbelievable guy. And it kind of a funny story about how I ended up in his lab.
You know, I was when I was wrapping up my graduate research, my Ph.D. at St. George Children's Research Hospital. While I was there, I really got into health and for just wanting to be healthy and also healthy. I had done some previous research before graduate school in an aging lab at the Salk Institute in La Jolla.
You know, I was when I was wrapping up my graduate research, my Ph.D. at St. George Children's Research Hospital. While I was there, I really got into health and for just wanting to be healthy and also healthy. I had done some previous research before graduate school in an aging lab at the Salk Institute in La Jolla.
You know, I was when I was wrapping up my graduate research, my Ph.D. at St. George Children's Research Hospital. While I was there, I really got into health and for just wanting to be healthy and also healthy. I had done some previous research before graduate school in an aging lab at the Salk Institute in La Jolla.
And so I was already very interested in aging, even though I was in my 20s when I was working in that lab.
And so I was already very interested in aging, even though I was in my 20s when I was working in that lab.
And so I was already very interested in aging, even though I was in my 20s when I was working in that lab.
I was definitely thinking about it. And specifically, I was thinking about things that I can do in my diet and lifestyle because I had done some research on how insulin affects aging and glucose metabolism. And so it was very real to me that there's a very strong connection between our diet and lifestyle and the way we age.
I was definitely thinking about it. And specifically, I was thinking about things that I can do in my diet and lifestyle because I had done some research on how insulin affects aging and glucose metabolism. And so it was very real to me that there's a very strong connection between our diet and lifestyle and the way we age.
I was definitely thinking about it. And specifically, I was thinking about things that I can do in my diet and lifestyle because I had done some research on how insulin affects aging and glucose metabolism. And so it was very real to me that there's a very strong connection between our diet and lifestyle and the way we age.
And so that led me to reading a lot of Bruce's studies on mitochondrial health, on micronutrients. And I continued reading him throughout grad school. And I started a blog at that time. I was blogging about vitamin D and omega-3. And I kind of decided I didn't want to be a professor necessarily.
And so that led me to reading a lot of Bruce's studies on mitochondrial health, on micronutrients. And I continued reading him throughout grad school. And I started a blog at that time. I was blogging about vitamin D and omega-3. And I kind of decided I didn't want to be a professor necessarily.
And so that led me to reading a lot of Bruce's studies on mitochondrial health, on micronutrients. And I continued reading him throughout grad school. And I started a blog at that time. I was blogging about vitamin D and omega-3. And I kind of decided I didn't want to be a professor necessarily.
I didn't necessarily want to go and write grants and do this sort of classical pathway that a lot of scientists do when they're doing their training. And I had told that to my mentor. And my mentors at the time, and they were very distraught about that because they were saying that I was a very good scientist and I was completely going to destroy my scientific career.
I didn't necessarily want to go and write grants and do this sort of classical pathway that a lot of scientists do when they're doing their training. And I had told that to my mentor. And my mentors at the time, and they were very distraught about that because they were saying that I was a very good scientist and I was completely going to destroy my scientific career.
I didn't necessarily want to go and write grants and do this sort of classical pathway that a lot of scientists do when they're doing their training. And I had told that to my mentor. And my mentors at the time, and they were very distraught about that because they were saying that I was a very good scientist and I was completely going to destroy my scientific career.
They begged me to please at least go interview for some postdoctoral positions. Yeah. And so I did. I said, okay, well, I'll go ahead and interview. And I went on a few interviews in some very prominent labs. I interviewed for even aging labs.
They begged me to please at least go interview for some postdoctoral positions. Yeah. And so I did. I said, okay, well, I'll go ahead and interview. And I went on a few interviews in some very prominent labs. I interviewed for even aging labs.
They begged me to please at least go interview for some postdoctoral positions. Yeah. And so I did. I said, okay, well, I'll go ahead and interview. And I went on a few interviews in some very prominent labs. I interviewed for even aging labs.
In fact, one of the guys that I interviewed with at Stanford looked me up and saw that I was blogging and said to me, you can't do this if you're going to come to my lab. You need to work for me. So then I go to Bruce, and I meet Bruce, and he – is absolutely just, he blew me away with not only his excitement for science, but his excitement for science communication and what I was doing.
In fact, one of the guys that I interviewed with at Stanford looked me up and saw that I was blogging and said to me, you can't do this if you're going to come to my lab. You need to work for me. So then I go to Bruce, and I meet Bruce, and he – is absolutely just, he blew me away with not only his excitement for science, but his excitement for science communication and what I was doing.
In fact, one of the guys that I interviewed with at Stanford looked me up and saw that I was blogging and said to me, you can't do this if you're going to come to my lab. You need to work for me. So then I go to Bruce, and I meet Bruce, and he – is absolutely just, he blew me away with not only his excitement for science, but his excitement for science communication and what I was doing.
And he was so enthusiastic about it. And he was basically like, oh, you need to continue doing this. This is a very important thing you do. Now, remember Bruce, you know, he kind of switches fields every few years or so. He started out looking at enzymes and then he developed this
And he was so enthusiastic about it. And he was basically like, oh, you need to continue doing this. This is a very important thing you do. Now, remember Bruce, you know, he kind of switches fields every few years or so. He started out looking at enzymes and then he developed this
And he was so enthusiastic about it. And he was basically like, oh, you need to continue doing this. This is a very important thing you do. Now, remember Bruce, you know, he kind of switches fields every few years or so. He started out looking at enzymes and then he developed this
known as the Ames test that is a very, very simple test for testing for mutagens, things that can damage your DNA, which is the precursor for cancer. It's still widely used today. And he had done a lot of research back in the late 70s and early 80s. And he found that chemicals that were in things like women's hair dye, children's pajamas were mutagens and carcinogens.
known as the Ames test that is a very, very simple test for testing for mutagens, things that can damage your DNA, which is the precursor for cancer. It's still widely used today. And he had done a lot of research back in the late 70s and early 80s. And he found that chemicals that were in things like women's hair dye, children's pajamas were mutagens and carcinogens.
known as the Ames test that is a very, very simple test for testing for mutagens, things that can damage your DNA, which is the precursor for cancer. It's still widely used today. And he had done a lot of research back in the late 70s and early 80s. And he found that chemicals that were in things like women's hair dye, children's pajamas were mutagens and carcinogens.
And he published this paper on it and nobody was doing anything about it. And he was on the phone calling up these companies Have you seen my paper? And he was responsible for getting these chemicals out of women's hair dye, out of children's pajamas. I mean, he has had an amazing impact on public health, continues to have an impact on public health.
And he published this paper on it and nobody was doing anything about it. And he was on the phone calling up these companies Have you seen my paper? And he was responsible for getting these chemicals out of women's hair dye, out of children's pajamas. I mean, he has had an amazing impact on public health, continues to have an impact on public health.
And he published this paper on it and nobody was doing anything about it. And he was on the phone calling up these companies Have you seen my paper? And he was responsible for getting these chemicals out of women's hair dye, out of children's pajamas. I mean, he has had an amazing impact on public health, continues to have an impact on public health.
He is. He is. And then, you know, he got into you wonder what he's doing this cancer research. And then he gets into micronutrients. So, you know, these are about 30 or 40. essential vitamins, minerals, amino acids, fatty acids that we need to get from our diet. We need them to survive. But as Bruce would argue, we also need them to age optimally. And he got into this field quite quickly.
He is. He is. And then, you know, he got into you wonder what he's doing this cancer research. And then he gets into micronutrients. So, you know, these are about 30 or 40. essential vitamins, minerals, amino acids, fatty acids that we need to get from our diet. We need them to survive. But as Bruce would argue, we also need them to age optimally. And he got into this field quite quickly.
He is. He is. And then, you know, he got into you wonder what he's doing this cancer research. And then he gets into micronutrients. So, you know, these are about 30 or 40. essential vitamins, minerals, amino acids, fatty acids that we need to get from our diet. We need them to survive. But as Bruce would argue, we also need them to age optimally. And he got into this field quite quickly.
I would say it was an accident. He had a guy in his lab doing a sabbatical, Dr. McGregor. And this guy was a cytobiologist. He was looking at red blood cells and doing a lot of experiments with red blood cells. And it turns out he used a media that didn't have folate. And all of a sudden, he started noticing all these double-stranded breaks in DNA.
I would say it was an accident. He had a guy in his lab doing a sabbatical, Dr. McGregor. And this guy was a cytobiologist. He was looking at red blood cells and doing a lot of experiments with red blood cells. And it turns out he used a media that didn't have folate. And all of a sudden, he started noticing all these double-stranded breaks in DNA.
I would say it was an accident. He had a guy in his lab doing a sabbatical, Dr. McGregor. And this guy was a cytobiologist. He was looking at red blood cells and doing a lot of experiments with red blood cells. And it turns out he used a media that didn't have folate. And all of a sudden, he started noticing all these double-stranded breaks in DNA.
Being damaged. And so he was like, oh, what's going on? And he finally traced it down to, oh, we have this media that we've used that doesn't have folate. So then he decided to do some animal work. Well, let's see what happens if we deprive rodents of folate.
Being damaged. And so he was like, oh, what's going on? And he finally traced it down to, oh, we have this media that we've used that doesn't have folate. So then he decided to do some animal work. Well, let's see what happens if we deprive rodents of folate.
Being damaged. And so he was like, oh, what's going on? And he finally traced it down to, oh, we have this media that we've used that doesn't have folate. So then he decided to do some animal work. Well, let's see what happens if we deprive rodents of folate.
And sure enough, widespread DNA damage, just completely, you know, double-stranded breaks in DNA are the precursor to basically oncogenic mutations. The answer. Exactly. Cancer. So Bruce, of course, was like, wow, this is amazing. Not having a important micronutrient can potentially cause cancer. And that's kind of what it was doing in the rodent studies.
And sure enough, widespread DNA damage, just completely, you know, double-stranded breaks in DNA are the precursor to basically oncogenic mutations. The answer. Exactly. Cancer. So Bruce, of course, was like, wow, this is amazing. Not having a important micronutrient can potentially cause cancer. And that's kind of what it was doing in the rodent studies.
And sure enough, widespread DNA damage, just completely, you know, double-stranded breaks in DNA are the precursor to basically oncogenic mutations. The answer. Exactly. Cancer. So Bruce, of course, was like, wow, this is amazing. Not having a important micronutrient can potentially cause cancer. And that's kind of what it was doing in the rodent studies.
And then he had found some humans that were low in folate and did some experiments as well. Found a similar thing, gave them back the folate, DNA double-stranded breaks, went away. He worked out the mechanism, which was folate is a precursor for making DNA. And so if you don't have that there, your body will put something there from RNA, a uracil, instead of a thymine.
And then he had found some humans that were low in folate and did some experiments as well. Found a similar thing, gave them back the folate, DNA double-stranded breaks, went away. He worked out the mechanism, which was folate is a precursor for making DNA. And so if you don't have that there, your body will put something there from RNA, a uracil, instead of a thymine.
And then he had found some humans that were low in folate and did some experiments as well. Found a similar thing, gave them back the folate, DNA double-stranded breaks, went away. He worked out the mechanism, which was folate is a precursor for making DNA. And so if you don't have that there, your body will put something there from RNA, a uracil, instead of a thymine.
Right. And so it basically causes these double-stranded breaks. So long story short, that's how Bruce got into micronutrients. And he started to really dive into understanding how these vitamins and minerals are affecting the way we age because cancer is a disease of age for the most part. There are some childhood leukemias and childhood cancers, but those are mostly linked to genetics.
Right. And so it basically causes these double-stranded breaks. So long story short, that's how Bruce got into micronutrients. And he started to really dive into understanding how these vitamins and minerals are affecting the way we age because cancer is a disease of age for the most part. There are some childhood leukemias and childhood cancers, but those are mostly linked to genetics.
Right. And so it basically causes these double-stranded breaks. So long story short, that's how Bruce got into micronutrients. And he started to really dive into understanding how these vitamins and minerals are affecting the way we age because cancer is a disease of age for the most part. There are some childhood leukemias and childhood cancers, but those are mostly linked to genetics.
Aging in general is a major driver of cancer. Bruce came up with this theory called the triage theory.
Aging in general is a major driver of cancer. Bruce came up with this theory called the triage theory.
Aging in general is a major driver of cancer. Bruce came up with this theory called the triage theory.
Yeah, this is a – it's a theory that he came up with that posits that vitamins and minerals that we get from our diet, they get triaged to essential functions in our body that are important for preventing basically acute death, right? So if you think about blood coagulation, vitamin K1, very important. Like you need to have your blood clot, right?
Yeah, this is a – it's a theory that he came up with that posits that vitamins and minerals that we get from our diet, they get triaged to essential functions in our body that are important for preventing basically acute death, right? So if you think about blood coagulation, vitamin K1, very important. Like you need to have your blood clot, right?
Yeah, this is a – it's a theory that he came up with that posits that vitamins and minerals that we get from our diet, they get triaged to essential functions in our body that are important for preventing basically acute death, right? So if you think about blood coagulation, vitamin K1, very important. Like you need to have your blood clot, right?
Otherwise, you could have, you know, a pretty severe injury and you could have a hemorrhage and that would be detrimental, right? So vitamin K is one example. And there's some other examples like selenium that Bruce has published and showed there are proteins that have a stronger binding to vitamin K1 that are important for coagulation. So these are proteins in the liver.
Otherwise, you could have, you know, a pretty severe injury and you could have a hemorrhage and that would be detrimental, right? So vitamin K is one example. And there's some other examples like selenium that Bruce has published and showed there are proteins that have a stronger binding to vitamin K1 that are important for coagulation. So these are proteins in the liver.
Otherwise, you could have, you know, a pretty severe injury and you could have a hemorrhage and that would be detrimental, right? So vitamin K is one example. And there's some other examples like selenium that Bruce has published and showed there are proteins that have a stronger binding to vitamin K1 that are important for coagulation. So these are proteins in the liver.
versus, for example, other proteins that stay in circulation and are activating proteins that are important for calcium signaling and trafficking, moving calcium out of the bloodstream, moving it to muscle, moving it to bones, right? So he's published a couple of papers showing that. So the idea is that your body will triage them to essential functions to prevent short-term death at the expense of
versus, for example, other proteins that stay in circulation and are activating proteins that are important for calcium signaling and trafficking, moving calcium out of the bloodstream, moving it to muscle, moving it to bones, right? So he's published a couple of papers showing that. So the idea is that your body will triage them to essential functions to prevent short-term death at the expense of
versus, for example, other proteins that stay in circulation and are activating proteins that are important for calcium signaling and trafficking, moving calcium out of the bloodstream, moving it to muscle, moving it to bones, right? So he's published a couple of papers showing that. So the idea is that your body will triage them to essential functions to prevent short-term death at the expense of
these long-term sort of health functions, right?
these long-term sort of health functions, right?
these long-term sort of health functions, right?
Exactly. And so magnesium would be another one. Magnesium is an essential mineral. It's involved in over 300 different enzymatic processes, and ATP production and utilization is one of those. And ATP is the energetic currency of our cells. We need to make energy to survive. Right.
Exactly. And so magnesium would be another one. Magnesium is an essential mineral. It's involved in over 300 different enzymatic processes, and ATP production and utilization is one of those. And ATP is the energetic currency of our cells. We need to make energy to survive. Right.
Exactly. And so magnesium would be another one. Magnesium is an essential mineral. It's involved in over 300 different enzymatic processes, and ATP production and utilization is one of those. And ATP is the energetic currency of our cells. We need to make energy to survive. Right.
Exactly. But it's also essential for DNA repair enzymes. They use it to repair damage to our DNA. Every time we make a new cell, whether that's a skin cell or a liver cell or a blood cell, there's damage that occurs even with just the process of cell division, right? Let alone the external processes that we're exposed to, UV radiation, unhealthy diet, things like that.
Exactly. But it's also essential for DNA repair enzymes. They use it to repair damage to our DNA. Every time we make a new cell, whether that's a skin cell or a liver cell or a blood cell, there's damage that occurs even with just the process of cell division, right? Let alone the external processes that we're exposed to, UV radiation, unhealthy diet, things like that.
Exactly. But it's also essential for DNA repair enzymes. They use it to repair damage to our DNA. Every time we make a new cell, whether that's a skin cell or a liver cell or a blood cell, there's damage that occurs even with just the process of cell division, right? Let alone the external processes that we're exposed to, UV radiation, unhealthy diet, things like that.
50%.
50%.
50%.
Close to 50%. Yeah. And, you know, magnesium, as Bruce would say, is at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their green color.
Close to 50%. Yeah. And, you know, magnesium, as Bruce would say, is at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their green color.
Close to 50%. Yeah. And, you know, magnesium, as Bruce would say, is at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their green color.
So magnesium is very high in dark leafy greens.
So magnesium is very high in dark leafy greens.
So magnesium is very high in dark leafy greens.
You're supposed to eat your greens. You get your magnesium. Yeah. And so people aren't eating enough of their greens and they're not getting enough magnesium.
You're supposed to eat your greens. You get your magnesium. Yeah. And so people aren't eating enough of their greens and they're not getting enough magnesium.
You're supposed to eat your greens. You get your magnesium. Yeah. And so people aren't eating enough of their greens and they're not getting enough magnesium.
Greens and beans. It's in oats.
Greens and beans. It's in oats.
Greens and beans. It's in oats.
Almonds. Exactly.
Almonds. Exactly.
Almonds. Exactly.
Right. Exactly. So, you know, the magnesium RDA is about 350 to 400 milligrams a day, depending on if you're male or female. Males require a little bit more. And so you're really supposed to be getting the majority of that from your diet. People aren't getting that from their diet. Right.
Right. Exactly. So, you know, the magnesium RDA is about 350 to 400 milligrams a day, depending on if you're male or female. Males require a little bit more. And so you're really supposed to be getting the majority of that from your diet. People aren't getting that from their diet. Right.
Right. Exactly. So, you know, the magnesium RDA is about 350 to 400 milligrams a day, depending on if you're male or female. Males require a little bit more. And so you're really supposed to be getting the majority of that from your diet. People aren't getting that from their diet. Right.
And, you know, just in terms of we talked about triage theory in cancer, there are a variety of studies that have looked at these are observational studies. So it's always difficult to establish causation, of course, from observational data. But nonetheless, there are studies that have found a dose dependent effect of low magnesium.
And, you know, just in terms of we talked about triage theory in cancer, there are a variety of studies that have looked at these are observational studies. So it's always difficult to establish causation, of course, from observational data. But nonetheless, there are studies that have found a dose dependent effect of low magnesium.
And, you know, just in terms of we talked about triage theory in cancer, there are a variety of studies that have looked at these are observational studies. So it's always difficult to establish causation, of course, from observational data. But nonetheless, there are studies that have found a dose dependent effect of low magnesium.
So for every 100 milligram dose, but less 100 milligrams less intake per day. was associated with a 24% increase in pancreatic cancer incidence.
So for every 100 milligram dose, but less 100 milligrams less intake per day. was associated with a 24% increase in pancreatic cancer incidence.
So for every 100 milligram dose, but less 100 milligrams less intake per day. was associated with a 24% increase in pancreatic cancer incidence.
Of magnesium. Of magnesium. So eventually, and that's dose dependent, right?
Of magnesium. Of magnesium. So eventually, and that's dose dependent, right?
Of magnesium. Of magnesium. So eventually, and that's dose dependent, right?
Well, I want to start out with the multivitamins and vitamins don't do anything and they're expensive urine, which you also mentioned earlier because this is a pet peeve of mine, I guess. Me too.
Well, I want to start out with the multivitamins and vitamins don't do anything and they're expensive urine, which you also mentioned earlier because this is a pet peeve of mine, I guess. Me too.
Well, I want to start out with the multivitamins and vitamins don't do anything and they're expensive urine, which you also mentioned earlier because this is a pet peeve of mine, I guess. Me too.
Oh, really?
Oh, really?
Oh, really?
That's a great question.
That's a great question.
That's a great question.
But I take it. Here's a big flaw with a lot of those studies that are cited by journals, great journals like JAMA, for example. They're poorly designed. They're poorly designed. So, you know... They're designed like drugs, I guess. Exactly. Exactly right. Exactly. So the problem is when you have a drug trial, randomized controlled trials are the gold standard, right?
But I take it. Here's a big flaw with a lot of those studies that are cited by journals, great journals like JAMA, for example. They're poorly designed. They're poorly designed. So, you know... They're designed like drugs, I guess. Exactly. Exactly right. Exactly. So the problem is when you have a drug trial, randomized controlled trials are the gold standard, right?
But I take it. Here's a big flaw with a lot of those studies that are cited by journals, great journals like JAMA, for example. They're poorly designed. They're poorly designed. So, you know... They're designed like drugs, I guess. Exactly. Exactly right. Exactly. So the problem is when you have a drug trial, randomized controlled trials are the gold standard, right?
You have a drug and then you have a placebo. But the thing is, is that with a drug, everybody has zero levels of that drug in the start of the trial, right? That's right. So you don't have to measure anything, right? Because there's nothing to measure until you take the drug.
You have a drug and then you have a placebo. But the thing is, is that with a drug, everybody has zero levels of that drug in the start of the trial, right? That's right. So you don't have to measure anything, right? Because there's nothing to measure until you take the drug.
You have a drug and then you have a placebo. But the thing is, is that with a drug, everybody has zero levels of that drug in the start of the trial, right? That's right. So you don't have to measure anything, right? Because there's nothing to measure until you take the drug.
Yeah, bad example, like statins. So, you know, but when you're doing a... You don't have a normal blood level of Lipitor, right? Right, exactly. When you're doing a study on vitamin D or... omega-3 or fill-in-the-blank vitamin mineral, everybody has varying levels of these micronutrients in their body. And so you have to measure things. You have to measure things at the start of the trial.
Yeah, bad example, like statins. So, you know, but when you're doing a... You don't have a normal blood level of Lipitor, right? Right, exactly. When you're doing a study on vitamin D or... omega-3 or fill-in-the-blank vitamin mineral, everybody has varying levels of these micronutrients in their body. And so you have to measure things. You have to measure things at the start of the trial.
Yeah, bad example, like statins. So, you know, but when you're doing a... You don't have a normal blood level of Lipitor, right? Right, exactly. When you're doing a study on vitamin D or... omega-3 or fill-in-the-blank vitamin mineral, everybody has varying levels of these micronutrients in their body. And so you have to measure things. You have to measure things at the start of the trial.
You might have someone that's already got sufficient levels of vitamin D. They may have 50 nanograms per milliliter level vitamin D. And so you give them a vitamin D supplement and it's not going to do anything because they're already sufficient, right? Yeah.
You might have someone that's already got sufficient levels of vitamin D. They may have 50 nanograms per milliliter level vitamin D. And so you give them a vitamin D supplement and it's not going to do anything because they're already sufficient, right? Yeah.
You might have someone that's already got sufficient levels of vitamin D. They may have 50 nanograms per milliliter level vitamin D. And so you give them a vitamin D supplement and it's not going to do anything because they're already sufficient, right? Yeah.
Or the converse is they're so deficient and you give them a supplement that's 400 IUs or 800 IUs, which doesn't raise their blood levels hardly at all. that it doesn't really do anything.
Or the converse is they're so deficient and you give them a supplement that's 400 IUs or 800 IUs, which doesn't raise their blood levels hardly at all. that it doesn't really do anything.
Or the converse is they're so deficient and you give them a supplement that's 400 IUs or 800 IUs, which doesn't raise their blood levels hardly at all. that it doesn't really do anything.
Exactly. So that's the fundamental flaw of clinical trials in nutrition. that right there, is that the MDs that are running these trials are running them like they're drug trials, and they're not. You have to measure things. With that said, there have been some well-done trials.
Exactly. So that's the fundamental flaw of clinical trials in nutrition. that right there, is that the MDs that are running these trials are running them like they're drug trials, and they're not. You have to measure things. With that said, there have been some well-done trials.
Exactly. So that's the fundamental flaw of clinical trials in nutrition. that right there, is that the MDs that are running these trials are running them like they're drug trials, and they're not. You have to measure things. With that said, there have been some well-done trials.
Yeah, that is possible, not to mention the fact that smokers – I mean, if you give beta-carotene to non-smokers, it doesn't cause cancer. But smokers are doing so much oxidative damage and they're getting DNA damage that a high dose of something like beta-carotene, which can be an antioxidant, may then allow some of that. It's basically –
Yeah, that is possible, not to mention the fact that smokers – I mean, if you give beta-carotene to non-smokers, it doesn't cause cancer. But smokers are doing so much oxidative damage and they're getting DNA damage that a high dose of something like beta-carotene, which can be an antioxidant, may then allow some of that. It's basically –
Yeah, that is possible, not to mention the fact that smokers – I mean, if you give beta-carotene to non-smokers, it doesn't cause cancer. But smokers are doing so much oxidative damage and they're getting DNA damage that a high dose of something like beta-carotene, which can be an antioxidant, may then allow some of that. It's basically –
It's allowing some of the cells that would otherwise die from the oxidative stress, you know, not to die. Right. And so, yeah, it's a very complicated thing when you're doing things like that. But, you know, I think like it was about 10 years ago, there was a huge study in the Annals of Internal Medicine and it was called Enough is Enough.
It's allowing some of the cells that would otherwise die from the oxidative stress, you know, not to die. Right. And so, yeah, it's a very complicated thing when you're doing things like that. But, you know, I think like it was about 10 years ago, there was a huge study in the Annals of Internal Medicine and it was called Enough is Enough.
It's allowing some of the cells that would otherwise die from the oxidative stress, you know, not to die. Right. And so, yeah, it's a very complicated thing when you're doing things like that. But, you know, I think like it was about 10 years ago, there was a huge study in the Annals of Internal Medicine and it was called Enough is Enough.
Vitamins and mineral supplements not only don't do anything that may be harmful. Yeah. I think that was, do you remember that study? Yeah. It was about 10 years ago.
Vitamins and mineral supplements not only don't do anything that may be harmful. Yeah. I think that was, do you remember that study? Yeah. It was about 10 years ago.
Vitamins and mineral supplements not only don't do anything that may be harmful. Yeah. I think that was, do you remember that study? Yeah. It was about 10 years ago.
And, you know, I just dug in and it was a meta-analysis and I went and looked at all those studies and I found that all these flaws, again, come eventually.
And, you know, I just dug in and it was a meta-analysis and I went and looked at all those studies and I found that all these flaws, again, come eventually.
And, you know, I just dug in and it was a meta-analysis and I went and looked at all those studies and I found that all these flaws, again, come eventually.
Exactly. Yeah. And I put out a video about it like years and years ago. And all these flaws that we just talked about were there. And here we are 10 years later, and the COSMOS trials was just published, right? So this is another meta-analysis of a couple randomized controlled trials where older adults were given a multivitamin.
Exactly. Yeah. And I put out a video about it like years and years ago. And all these flaws that we just talked about were there. And here we are 10 years later, and the COSMOS trials was just published, right? So this is another meta-analysis of a couple randomized controlled trials where older adults were given a multivitamin.
Exactly. Yeah. And I put out a video about it like years and years ago. And all these flaws that we just talked about were there. And here we are 10 years later, and the COSMOS trials was just published, right? So this is another meta-analysis of a couple randomized controlled trials where older adults were given a multivitamin.
They had about 20 or so essential vitamins, essential minerals, omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, right? Magnesium. This was all present in this multivitamin and they were given it for two years. What the study found, these are randomized controlled trials, placebo controlled, right? The multivitamin actually did improve brain aging.
They had about 20 or so essential vitamins, essential minerals, omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, right? Magnesium. This was all present in this multivitamin and they were given it for two years. What the study found, these are randomized controlled trials, placebo controlled, right? The multivitamin actually did improve brain aging.
They had about 20 or so essential vitamins, essential minerals, omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, right? Magnesium. This was all present in this multivitamin and they were given it for two years. What the study found, these are randomized controlled trials, placebo controlled, right? The multivitamin actually did improve brain aging.
So people taking the multivitamin mineral supplement were less likely to experience cognitive dysfunction, memory loss. And in fact, they experienced a improvement in their brain aging that was equivalent to reversing two years of brain aging. Wow. Wow.
So people taking the multivitamin mineral supplement were less likely to experience cognitive dysfunction, memory loss. And in fact, they experienced a improvement in their brain aging that was equivalent to reversing two years of brain aging. Wow. Wow.
So people taking the multivitamin mineral supplement were less likely to experience cognitive dysfunction, memory loss. And in fact, they experienced a improvement in their brain aging that was equivalent to reversing two years of brain aging. Wow. Wow.
Brandomized controlled trial. Here we are 10 years later. Yeah.
Brandomized controlled trial. Here we are 10 years later. Yeah.
Brandomized controlled trial. Here we are 10 years later. Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah. I think that it comes down to, yes, you should try to get your micronutrients from diet. However, taking a multivitamin supplement, taking vitamin D, taking omega-3s, these are insurance, right? This is insurance to make sure you're getting your optimum levels. So you asked about deficiencies and what are some of the common ones. Well, omega-3. Okay. So
Exactly. Yeah. I think that it comes down to, yes, you should try to get your micronutrients from diet. However, taking a multivitamin supplement, taking vitamin D, taking omega-3s, these are insurance, right? This is insurance to make sure you're getting your optimum levels. So you asked about deficiencies and what are some of the common ones. Well, omega-3. Okay. So
Exactly. Yeah. I think that it comes down to, yes, you should try to get your micronutrients from diet. However, taking a multivitamin supplement, taking vitamin D, taking omega-3s, these are insurance, right? This is insurance to make sure you're getting your optimum levels. So you asked about deficiencies and what are some of the common ones. Well, omega-3. Okay. So
About 80% of the world's population and 90% of the U.S. population does not meet the requirements for omega-3 fatty acids.
About 80% of the world's population and 90% of the U.S. population does not meet the requirements for omega-3 fatty acids.
About 80% of the world's population and 90% of the U.S. population does not meet the requirements for omega-3 fatty acids.
Exactly. Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly.
And there's been a lot of work by Dr. Bill Harris. So I'm an associate professor at the Fatty Acid Research Institute with Bill Harris. And so I'm involved in a lot of research on omega-3. And he's published just an array of studies that are quite convincing.
And there's been a lot of work by Dr. Bill Harris. So I'm an associate professor at the Fatty Acid Research Institute with Bill Harris. And so I'm involved in a lot of research on omega-3. And he's published just an array of studies that are quite convincing.
And there's been a lot of work by Dr. Bill Harris. So I'm an associate professor at the Fatty Acid Research Institute with Bill Harris. And so I'm involved in a lot of research on omega-3. And he's published just an array of studies that are quite convincing.
So looking at the omega-3 index, so this is the omega-3 levels in red blood cells, which is sort of like a long-term marker for omega-3 because they take about... What does the index actually measure? It measures the EPA and DHA levels along with a bunch of other fatty acids if you're interested in that. But it's really the EPA and DHA level in the red blood cell membrane.
So looking at the omega-3 index, so this is the omega-3 levels in red blood cells, which is sort of like a long-term marker for omega-3 because they take about... What does the index actually measure? It measures the EPA and DHA levels along with a bunch of other fatty acids if you're interested in that. But it's really the EPA and DHA level in the red blood cell membrane.
So looking at the omega-3 index, so this is the omega-3 levels in red blood cells, which is sort of like a long-term marker for omega-3 because they take about... What does the index actually measure? It measures the EPA and DHA levels along with a bunch of other fatty acids if you're interested in that. But it's really the EPA and DHA level in the red blood cell membrane.
Exactly. So he's published studies using like the Framingham cohort. So these are large cohort studies with a lot of people. And he's looked at the omega-3 index and correlated it with all-cause mortality. So dying from a variety of different diseases.
Exactly. So he's published studies using like the Framingham cohort. So these are large cohort studies with a lot of people. And he's looked at the omega-3 index and correlated it with all-cause mortality. So dying from a variety of different diseases.
Exactly. So he's published studies using like the Framingham cohort. So these are large cohort studies with a lot of people. And he's looked at the omega-3 index and correlated it with all-cause mortality. So dying from a variety of different diseases.
And what he's found is that people that have what is defined as a high omega-3 index, so this would be 8% or more, have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to people that have a 4% omega-3 index, which is low. And actually, the average omega-3 index of the U.S. population is about 5%, pretty close to that 4%. Yeah, yeah.
And what he's found is that people that have what is defined as a high omega-3 index, so this would be 8% or more, have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to people that have a 4% omega-3 index, which is low. And actually, the average omega-3 index of the U.S. population is about 5%, pretty close to that 4%. Yeah, yeah.
And what he's found is that people that have what is defined as a high omega-3 index, so this would be 8% or more, have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to people that have a 4% omega-3 index, which is low. And actually, the average omega-3 index of the U.S. population is about 5%, pretty close to that 4%. Yeah, yeah.
Five-year increased life expectancy. If you think about Japan, Japan, they eat a lot of seafood in Japan. Their omega-3 index on average is like 10%. So they're above the high, the 8%. Yeah, yeah.
Five-year increased life expectancy. If you think about Japan, Japan, they eat a lot of seafood in Japan. Their omega-3 index on average is like 10%. So they're above the high, the 8%. Yeah, yeah.
Five-year increased life expectancy. If you think about Japan, Japan, they eat a lot of seafood in Japan. Their omega-3 index on average is like 10%. So they're above the high, the 8%. Yeah, yeah.
What's funny, it's funny that you say that, Mark. There's been studies like in pregnant women. You probably remember this, that decades ago women were advised to stop eating fish because of the high mercury levels. And that actually had a detrimental sort of effect because omega-3 fatty acids, as you mentioned, they're so important for the brain, very important for neurodevelopment.
What's funny, it's funny that you say that, Mark. There's been studies like in pregnant women. You probably remember this, that decades ago women were advised to stop eating fish because of the high mercury levels. And that actually had a detrimental sort of effect because omega-3 fatty acids, as you mentioned, they're so important for the brain, very important for neurodevelopment.
What's funny, it's funny that you say that, Mark. There's been studies like in pregnant women. You probably remember this, that decades ago women were advised to stop eating fish because of the high mercury levels. And that actually had a detrimental sort of effect because omega-3 fatty acids, as you mentioned, they're so important for the brain, very important for neurodevelopment.
And there have now been a whole host of studies that have come out showing that omega-3 fatty acids actually protect from any potential mercury toxicity in the developing fetus. And in fact, there's been studies looking at children... that were born to mothers that had a high level of omega-3 and high mercury, those children scored higher on intelligence tests, so IQ scores.
And there have now been a whole host of studies that have come out showing that omega-3 fatty acids actually protect from any potential mercury toxicity in the developing fetus. And in fact, there's been studies looking at children... that were born to mothers that had a high level of omega-3 and high mercury, those children scored higher on intelligence tests, so IQ scores.
And there have now been a whole host of studies that have come out showing that omega-3 fatty acids actually protect from any potential mercury toxicity in the developing fetus. And in fact, there's been studies looking at children... that were born to mothers that had a high level of omega-3 and high mercury, those children scored higher on intelligence tests, so IQ scores.
So high mercury was actually biomarking intelligence. It wasn't actually the mercury. It was high omega-3. Wow, that's crazy. But yes, you get the point.
So high mercury was actually biomarking intelligence. It wasn't actually the mercury. It was high omega-3. Wow, that's crazy. But yes, you get the point.
So high mercury was actually biomarking intelligence. It wasn't actually the mercury. It was high omega-3. Wow, that's crazy. But yes, you get the point.
Oh, is it?
Oh, is it?
Oh, is it?
I think garlic. Garlic, the beta-mercaptans in garlic as well. But back to the omega-3 and this study I was talking about from Bill Harris is so interesting because he also, this is a huge cohort of people, the Framingham, there's people that have all sorts of lifestyles, including smoking. Right. And so he did a sub-analysis looking at smokers and non-smokers and their omega-3 index.
I think garlic. Garlic, the beta-mercaptans in garlic as well. But back to the omega-3 and this study I was talking about from Bill Harris is so interesting because he also, this is a huge cohort of people, the Framingham, there's people that have all sorts of lifestyles, including smoking. Right. And so he did a sub-analysis looking at smokers and non-smokers and their omega-3 index.
I think garlic. Garlic, the beta-mercaptans in garlic as well. But back to the omega-3 and this study I was talking about from Bill Harris is so interesting because he also, this is a huge cohort of people, the Framingham, there's people that have all sorts of lifestyles, including smoking. Right. And so he did a sub-analysis looking at smokers and non-smokers and their omega-3 index.
And what Bill and his associates and colleagues found was that smokers with a high level of omega-3, so they had a high omega-3 index of 8%, they had the same mortality rate. as non-smokers with a low omega-3 index.
And what Bill and his associates and colleagues found was that smokers with a high level of omega-3, so they had a high omega-3 index of 8%, they had the same mortality rate. as non-smokers with a low omega-3 index.
And what Bill and his associates and colleagues found was that smokers with a high level of omega-3, so they had a high omega-3 index of 8%, they had the same mortality rate. as non-smokers with a low omega-3 index.
Or if you're not getting enough omega-3, it's like smoking, right? I mean, if you look at the graph of this, I mean, it's incredible. The overlay is perfect.
Or if you're not getting enough omega-3, it's like smoking, right? I mean, if you look at the graph of this, I mean, it's incredible. The overlay is perfect.
Or if you're not getting enough omega-3, it's like smoking, right? I mean, if you look at the graph of this, I mean, it's incredible. The overlay is perfect.
So having a low omega-3 index had the same mortality risk as smoking.
So having a low omega-3 index had the same mortality risk as smoking.
So having a low omega-3 index had the same mortality risk as smoking.
Yes, yes. And, you know, there's also been a whole host of randomized controlled trials looking at omega-3s being cardioprotective, right? So they're very important for cardiovascular health, triglycerides.
Yes, yes. And, you know, there's also been a whole host of randomized controlled trials looking at omega-3s being cardioprotective, right? So they're very important for cardiovascular health, triglycerides.
Yes, yes. And, you know, there's also been a whole host of randomized controlled trials looking at omega-3s being cardioprotective, right? So they're very important for cardiovascular health, triglycerides.
Right. Yeah. And you mentioned inflammation. So this is another thing. They play a major role in lowering inflammation. And so that's a driver of aging in many ways, brain aging, cardiovascular aging. So omega-3s are, I would say, one of the most profound lifestyle factors that can play a role in negating inflammation aside from exercise. Right.
Right. Yeah. And you mentioned inflammation. So this is another thing. They play a major role in lowering inflammation. And so that's a driver of aging in many ways, brain aging, cardiovascular aging. So omega-3s are, I would say, one of the most profound lifestyle factors that can play a role in negating inflammation aside from exercise. Right.
Right. Yeah. And you mentioned inflammation. So this is another thing. They play a major role in lowering inflammation. And so that's a driver of aging in many ways, brain aging, cardiovascular aging. So omega-3s are, I would say, one of the most profound lifestyle factors that can play a role in negating inflammation aside from exercise. Right.
That's also very much in line with Bruce's triage theory, right? These micronutrients are running our metabolism, which runs everything from our heart pumping blood to neurotransmitter function to repairing DNA. So there's a lot of, you know, you can look in the mirror and if you're vitamin C deficient and your gums start falling apart, you can see, oh, I've got scurvy.
That's also very much in line with Bruce's triage theory, right? These micronutrients are running our metabolism, which runs everything from our heart pumping blood to neurotransmitter function to repairing DNA. So there's a lot of, you know, you can look in the mirror and if you're vitamin C deficient and your gums start falling apart, you can see, oh, I've got scurvy.
That's also very much in line with Bruce's triage theory, right? These micronutrients are running our metabolism, which runs everything from our heart pumping blood to neurotransmitter function to repairing DNA. So there's a lot of, you know, you can look in the mirror and if you're vitamin C deficient and your gums start falling apart, you can see, oh, I've got scurvy.
But when you're magnesium deficient, you're not going to see DNA damage happening.
But when you're magnesium deficient, you're not going to see DNA damage happening.
But when you're magnesium deficient, you're not going to see DNA damage happening.
I like it. It is insufficiency because most people are not deficient. We do have a lot of fortification even in our ultra-processed foods because of, you know, preventing neural tube defects, preventing pellagra, like all these diseases that were sort of cropping up like you mentioned in the early... Fortified.
I like it. It is insufficiency because most people are not deficient. We do have a lot of fortification even in our ultra-processed foods because of, you know, preventing neural tube defects, preventing pellagra, like all these diseases that were sort of cropping up like you mentioned in the early... Fortified.
I like it. It is insufficiency because most people are not deficient. We do have a lot of fortification even in our ultra-processed foods because of, you know, preventing neural tube defects, preventing pellagra, like all these diseases that were sort of cropping up like you mentioned in the early... Fortified.
It is. It is. But it seems to stop some of those deficiencies, right? But it's the insufficiency. And with vitamin D, it's a really big one because it is converted into a steroid hormone. Right. So this is something that is going into the nucleus of our cell and binding and interacting with DNA. It has a little sequence of DNA called a vitamin D response element. It's so important.
It is. It is. But it seems to stop some of those deficiencies, right? But it's the insufficiency. And with vitamin D, it's a really big one because it is converted into a steroid hormone. Right. So this is something that is going into the nucleus of our cell and binding and interacting with DNA. It has a little sequence of DNA called a vitamin D response element. It's so important.
It is. It is. But it seems to stop some of those deficiencies, right? But it's the insufficiency. And with vitamin D, it's a really big one because it is converted into a steroid hormone. Right. So this is something that is going into the nucleus of our cell and binding and interacting with DNA. It has a little sequence of DNA called a vitamin D response element. It's so important.
70%. 30%.
70%. 30%.
70%. 30%.
Right. Yeah. And so that would be – there have been studies looking at all-cause mortality and vitamin D levels. Of course, this is, again, observational. Lots of meta-analyses out there, even dating back for like 30 years. Yeah. And it seems as though having at least 40 nanograms per mil seems to be a sweet spot.
Right. Yeah. And so that would be – there have been studies looking at all-cause mortality and vitamin D levels. Of course, this is, again, observational. Lots of meta-analyses out there, even dating back for like 30 years. Yeah. And it seems as though having at least 40 nanograms per mil seems to be a sweet spot.
Right. Yeah. And so that would be – there have been studies looking at all-cause mortality and vitamin D levels. Of course, this is, again, observational. Lots of meta-analyses out there, even dating back for like 30 years. Yeah. And it seems as though having at least 40 nanograms per mil seems to be a sweet spot.
40 to 60 is a really good place to be where you're having a good level of vitamin D. But again, it's a steroid hormone. It's regulating over 5% of the protein-encoding human genome. That's like thousands of genes. Everything from immune function, it plays an important role in preventing autoimmunity. Brain function, it regulates genes that are important for converting tryptophan into serotonin.
40 to 60 is a really good place to be where you're having a good level of vitamin D. But again, it's a steroid hormone. It's regulating over 5% of the protein-encoding human genome. That's like thousands of genes. Everything from immune function, it plays an important role in preventing autoimmunity. Brain function, it regulates genes that are important for converting tryptophan into serotonin.
40 to 60 is a really good place to be where you're having a good level of vitamin D. But again, it's a steroid hormone. It's regulating over 5% of the protein-encoding human genome. That's like thousands of genes. Everything from immune function, it plays an important role in preventing autoimmunity. Brain function, it regulates genes that are important for converting tryptophan into serotonin.
Serotonin is an important neurotransmitter that regulates mood, cognitive function, impulse control. So vitamin D- Maybe I need more of that then. Well, and the problem is, is that, you know, vitamin D, typically you make it from UVB radiation exposure from the sun. Yeah.
Serotonin is an important neurotransmitter that regulates mood, cognitive function, impulse control. So vitamin D- Maybe I need more of that then. Well, and the problem is, is that, you know, vitamin D, typically you make it from UVB radiation exposure from the sun. Yeah.
Serotonin is an important neurotransmitter that regulates mood, cognitive function, impulse control. So vitamin D- Maybe I need more of that then. Well, and the problem is, is that, you know, vitamin D, typically you make it from UVB radiation exposure from the sun. Yeah.
Right. Exactly. We don't. And so, you know, I do think so people, the simple solution is a vitamin D supplement, right? And so about 4,000 IUs a day will generally get someone from a deficient range, which is 20 nanograms per mil up to a sufficient range.
Right. Exactly. We don't. And so, you know, I do think so people, the simple solution is a vitamin D supplement, right? And so about 4,000 IUs a day will generally get someone from a deficient range, which is 20 nanograms per mil up to a sufficient range.
Right. Exactly. We don't. And so, you know, I do think so people, the simple solution is a vitamin D supplement, right? And so about 4,000 IUs a day will generally get someone from a deficient range, which is 20 nanograms per mil up to a sufficient range.
I am. I am. Because, yeah, you really do. It's about 1,000 IUs of vitamin D will raise blood levels between 5 to 10 nanograms per mil. But we have genes. We have different variations of our genes that are able to do this. And this, again, comes down to these clinical studies showing that nothing happens.
I am. I am. Because, yeah, you really do. It's about 1,000 IUs of vitamin D will raise blood levels between 5 to 10 nanograms per mil. But we have genes. We have different variations of our genes that are able to do this. And this, again, comes down to these clinical studies showing that nothing happens.
I am. I am. Because, yeah, you really do. It's about 1,000 IUs of vitamin D will raise blood levels between 5 to 10 nanograms per mil. But we have genes. We have different variations of our genes that are able to do this. And this, again, comes down to these clinical studies showing that nothing happens.
We're all different. And so some people actually have to take a much higher dose, right? Because they have genes that aren't converting vitamin D3 into 25-hydroxyvitamin D, which is the circulating form of vitamin D or the steroid hormone, 125-hydroxyvitamin D. Well, let's go down this rabbit hole because I think there's a paper you just reminded me of that Bruce Ames wrote.
We're all different. And so some people actually have to take a much higher dose, right? Because they have genes that aren't converting vitamin D3 into 25-hydroxyvitamin D, which is the circulating form of vitamin D or the steroid hormone, 125-hydroxyvitamin D. Well, let's go down this rabbit hole because I think there's a paper you just reminded me of that Bruce Ames wrote.
We're all different. And so some people actually have to take a much higher dose, right? Because they have genes that aren't converting vitamin D3 into 25-hydroxyvitamin D, which is the circulating form of vitamin D or the steroid hormone, 125-hydroxyvitamin D. Well, let's go down this rabbit hole because I think there's a paper you just reminded me of that Bruce Ames wrote.
It's true. These minerals and vitamins – so you're talking about magnesium, zinc, calcium, B vitamins. These are cofactors for these enzymes to make these enzymes run properly. And if you don't have – you know, sufficient levels of those vitamins and minerals, what happens is those enzymes do not work optimally, right?
It's true. These minerals and vitamins – so you're talking about magnesium, zinc, calcium, B vitamins. These are cofactors for these enzymes to make these enzymes run properly. And if you don't have – you know, sufficient levels of those vitamins and minerals, what happens is those enzymes do not work optimally, right?
It's true. These minerals and vitamins – so you're talking about magnesium, zinc, calcium, B vitamins. These are cofactors for these enzymes to make these enzymes run properly. And if you don't have – you know, sufficient levels of those vitamins and minerals, what happens is those enzymes do not work optimally, right?
So in the case that we talked about DNA repair enzymes, they're not going to be repairing damage as well. Zinc is also involved in DNA repair as well. You know, so B vitamins are involved in serotonin production. Magnesium is involved in vitamin D production, right? You were talking about, you know, nutrients working together. And it's very true.
So in the case that we talked about DNA repair enzymes, they're not going to be repairing damage as well. Zinc is also involved in DNA repair as well. You know, so B vitamins are involved in serotonin production. Magnesium is involved in vitamin D production, right? You were talking about, you know, nutrients working together. And it's very true.
So in the case that we talked about DNA repair enzymes, they're not going to be repairing damage as well. Zinc is also involved in DNA repair as well. You know, so B vitamins are involved in serotonin production. Magnesium is involved in vitamin D production, right? You were talking about, you know, nutrients working together. And it's very true.
So I think a really great way to think about eating, diet, is what do I need to run my metabolism, right?
So I think a really great way to think about eating, diet, is what do I need to run my metabolism, right?
So I think a really great way to think about eating, diet, is what do I need to run my metabolism, right?
Yeah. Yeah. I guess when people hear the word metabolism, they think about weight loss.
Yeah. Yeah. I guess when people hear the word metabolism, they think about weight loss.
Yeah. Yeah. I guess when people hear the word metabolism, they think about weight loss.
Right. Right. What I'm talking about is much more a biochemist definition of metabolism, which is all these enzymes. You're talking about, you know, one third of the protein encoding genome. Right. that are doing enzymatic reactions that are making proteins function. So they are producing energy. They are running neurotransmitter synthesis.
Right. Right. What I'm talking about is much more a biochemist definition of metabolism, which is all these enzymes. You're talking about, you know, one third of the protein encoding genome. Right. that are doing enzymatic reactions that are making proteins function. So they are producing energy. They are running neurotransmitter synthesis.
Right. Right. What I'm talking about is much more a biochemist definition of metabolism, which is all these enzymes. You're talking about, you know, one third of the protein encoding genome. Right. that are doing enzymatic reactions that are making proteins function. So they are producing energy. They are running neurotransmitter synthesis.
They are causing your liver to function properly, your heart to function, the lungs, everything.
They are causing your liver to function properly, your heart to function, the lungs, everything.
They are causing your liver to function properly, your heart to function, the lungs, everything.
Exactly. So, you know, getting the micronutrients you need from food, and nature sort of color-coded them in a way, right? I mentioned, you know, chlorophyll, that's magnesium. You have vitamin K, also the...
Exactly. So, you know, getting the micronutrients you need from food, and nature sort of color-coded them in a way, right? I mentioned, you know, chlorophyll, that's magnesium. You have vitamin K, also the...
Exactly. So, you know, getting the micronutrients you need from food, and nature sort of color-coded them in a way, right? I mentioned, you know, chlorophyll, that's magnesium. You have vitamin K, also the...
I guess it's green, too. I would say green.
I guess it's green, too. I would say green.
I guess it's green, too. I would say green.
Vitamin K1.
Vitamin K1.
Vitamin K1.
The orange, right? And then you've got the phytochemicals, right? So that would be the purples. But you really do need to get... a lot of vegetables and fruits, and then you need your protein and fiber.
The orange, right? And then you've got the phytochemicals, right? So that would be the purples. But you really do need to get... a lot of vegetables and fruits, and then you need your protein and fiber.
The orange, right? And then you've got the phytochemicals, right? So that would be the purples. But you really do need to get... a lot of vegetables and fruits, and then you need your protein and fiber.
When you're getting your micronutrients, you're also getting the fiber because a lot of the micronutrients are coming from plants, which are a great source of both fermentable and non-fermentable fiber. I think it's a really simple way. There's so many fad diets out there, right? Carnivore, keto, vegetarian, paleo. And I do think paleo is the closest thing to what I'm talking about.
When you're getting your micronutrients, you're also getting the fiber because a lot of the micronutrients are coming from plants, which are a great source of both fermentable and non-fermentable fiber. I think it's a really simple way. There's so many fad diets out there, right? Carnivore, keto, vegetarian, paleo. And I do think paleo is the closest thing to what I'm talking about.
When you're getting your micronutrients, you're also getting the fiber because a lot of the micronutrients are coming from plants, which are a great source of both fermentable and non-fermentable fiber. I think it's a really simple way. There's so many fad diets out there, right? Carnivore, keto, vegetarian, paleo. And I do think paleo is the closest thing to what I'm talking about.
But what I'm talking about is even simpler because what it really means is that you understand why you need food. What's the purpose of food, right? The purpose of food is to provide you with these essential vitamins and minerals and fatty acids like omega-3 and protein. and fiber to improve gut health. That's the purpose of eating.
But what I'm talking about is even simpler because what it really means is that you understand why you need food. What's the purpose of food, right? The purpose of food is to provide you with these essential vitamins and minerals and fatty acids like omega-3 and protein. and fiber to improve gut health. That's the purpose of eating.
But what I'm talking about is even simpler because what it really means is that you understand why you need food. What's the purpose of food, right? The purpose of food is to provide you with these essential vitamins and minerals and fatty acids like omega-3 and protein. and fiber to improve gut health. That's the purpose of eating.
Right. And so that means you don't need ultra-processed foods. That means if you're eating something like just carnivore diet, you're going to be missing out on a lot of micronutrients.
Right. And so that means you don't need ultra-processed foods. That means if you're eating something like just carnivore diet, you're going to be missing out on a lot of micronutrients.
Right. And so that means you don't need ultra-processed foods. That means if you're eating something like just carnivore diet, you're going to be missing out on a lot of micronutrients.
Have you heard of the protein leverage hypothesis?
Have you heard of the protein leverage hypothesis?
Have you heard of the protein leverage hypothesis?
Yeah. So it's kind of the same thing where your body needs a certain amount of protein to run optimally. And if you're eating – there's been a couple of randomized controlled trials on this. I think it's like Stephen Simpson is one of the proponents of it. It was like 2000s or something.
Yeah. So it's kind of the same thing where your body needs a certain amount of protein to run optimally. And if you're eating – there's been a couple of randomized controlled trials on this. I think it's like Stephen Simpson is one of the proponents of it. It was like 2000s or something.
Yeah. So it's kind of the same thing where your body needs a certain amount of protein to run optimally. And if you're eating – there's been a couple of randomized controlled trials on this. I think it's like Stephen Simpson is one of the proponents of it. It was like 2000s or something.
And that essentially, if you're eating ultra-processed foods, which are high in a lot of refined carbohydrates, low in protein, that you overeat to sort of try to get enough protein. So it does make sense. If your body is looking for more of micronutrients, more vitamins, more minerals, more protein, that you start to overeat.
And that essentially, if you're eating ultra-processed foods, which are high in a lot of refined carbohydrates, low in protein, that you overeat to sort of try to get enough protein. So it does make sense. If your body is looking for more of micronutrients, more vitamins, more minerals, more protein, that you start to overeat.
And that essentially, if you're eating ultra-processed foods, which are high in a lot of refined carbohydrates, low in protein, that you overeat to sort of try to get enough protein. So it does make sense. If your body is looking for more of micronutrients, more vitamins, more minerals, more protein, that you start to overeat.
And are you familiar with Kevin Hall's study that he published a couple of years ago?
And are you familiar with Kevin Hall's study that he published a couple of years ago?
And are you familiar with Kevin Hall's study that he published a couple of years ago?
They ate 500. Yeah. So for people listening, I mean- Ultra processed food. Exactly. They had two diets. They had a whole foods diet, which was essentially mostly they were getting salads and they were getting poultry and lean meats and some fish, oatmeal. And then there was the ultra processed foods diet.
They ate 500. Yeah. So for people listening, I mean- Ultra processed food. Exactly. They had two diets. They had a whole foods diet, which was essentially mostly they were getting salads and they were getting poultry and lean meats and some fish, oatmeal. And then there was the ultra processed foods diet.
They ate 500. Yeah. So for people listening, I mean- Ultra processed food. Exactly. They had two diets. They had a whole foods diet, which was essentially mostly they were getting salads and they were getting poultry and lean meats and some fish, oatmeal. And then there was the ultra processed foods diet.
Yeah. So they were matched for calories. They were matched for total sugar, although the added sugar and the ultra processed foods- group was, it was like a huge difference. I mean, it was like something like 70 or 80% versus 1%. So the sugars in the whole foods diet were coming from fruit, which has a fiber matrix, right? So they were matched for that. Exactly.
Yeah. So they were matched for calories. They were matched for total sugar, although the added sugar and the ultra processed foods- group was, it was like a huge difference. I mean, it was like something like 70 or 80% versus 1%. So the sugars in the whole foods diet were coming from fruit, which has a fiber matrix, right? So they were matched for that. Exactly.
Yeah. So they were matched for calories. They were matched for total sugar, although the added sugar and the ultra processed foods- group was, it was like a huge difference. I mean, it was like something like 70 or 80% versus 1%. So the sugars in the whole foods diet were coming from fruit, which has a fiber matrix, right? So they were matched for that. Exactly.
So the added sugar was not matched, although total sugar was, right? And then protein was somewhat matched. The whole foods had a little bit more protein. It was like something like 15.6% in whole foods diet versus 14% in the ultra processed foods diet.
So the added sugar was not matched, although total sugar was, right? And then protein was somewhat matched. The whole foods had a little bit more protein. It was like something like 15.6% in whole foods diet versus 14% in the ultra processed foods diet.
So the added sugar was not matched, although total sugar was, right? And then protein was somewhat matched. The whole foods had a little bit more protein. It was like something like 15.6% in whole foods diet versus 14% in the ultra processed foods diet.
And they were given... So a lot of things were matched and they were given these foods in a sort of metabolic ward where they came in and eat and they had 60 minutes to eat the meal ad libitum, right? So they could eat as much or as little as they want.
And they were given... So a lot of things were matched and they were given these foods in a sort of metabolic ward where they came in and eat and they had 60 minutes to eat the meal ad libitum, right? So they could eat as much or as little as they want.
And they were given... So a lot of things were matched and they were given these foods in a sort of metabolic ward where they came in and eat and they had 60 minutes to eat the meal ad libitum, right? So they could eat as much or as little as they want.
Yeah. I didn't do that math. I know that I just read the results, which was they gained two pounds in two weeks, whereas the whole foods diet lost two pounds in two weeks.
Yeah. I didn't do that math. I know that I just read the results, which was they gained two pounds in two weeks, whereas the whole foods diet lost two pounds in two weeks.
Yeah. I didn't do that math. I know that I just read the results, which was they gained two pounds in two weeks, whereas the whole foods diet lost two pounds in two weeks.
There's been studies that have looked at, like, healthy individuals, and they've given them – they were actually young men. They gave them a 20-ounce sugar-sweetened beverage, sort of akin to, like, a soda, Coke or something. And they did this for three weeks. And after that three-week mark, their C-reactive protein biomarker for inflammation went up 100%.
There's been studies that have looked at, like, healthy individuals, and they've given them – they were actually young men. They gave them a 20-ounce sugar-sweetened beverage, sort of akin to, like, a soda, Coke or something. And they did this for three weeks. And after that three-week mark, their C-reactive protein biomarker for inflammation went up 100%.
There's been studies that have looked at, like, healthy individuals, and they've given them – they were actually young men. They gave them a 20-ounce sugar-sweetened beverage, sort of akin to, like, a soda, Coke or something. And they did this for three weeks. And after that three-week mark, their C-reactive protein biomarker for inflammation went up 100%.
Their small, dense LDL, so these are lipoproteins that are transporting. The bad. Yeah.
Their small, dense LDL, so these are lipoproteins that are transporting. The bad. Yeah.
Their small, dense LDL, so these are lipoproteins that are transporting. The bad. Yeah.
Exactly. Causing more atherosclerosis. They went up as well. This was just after three weeks. Beginning of the process. Of a sugar-sweetened beverage, which is the ultimate. Yeah. Right. That's the ultimate machine. But the reality is... But it's gluten-free. It's gluten-free, yes. But it's definitely... It's causing inflammation, massive inflammation at the level of the gut.
Exactly. Causing more atherosclerosis. They went up as well. This was just after three weeks. Beginning of the process. Of a sugar-sweetened beverage, which is the ultimate. Yeah. Right. That's the ultimate machine. But the reality is... But it's gluten-free. It's gluten-free, yes. But it's definitely... It's causing inflammation, massive inflammation at the level of the gut.
Exactly. Causing more atherosclerosis. They went up as well. This was just after three weeks. Beginning of the process. Of a sugar-sweetened beverage, which is the ultimate. Yeah. Right. That's the ultimate machine. But the reality is... But it's gluten-free. It's gluten-free, yes. But it's definitely... It's causing inflammation, massive inflammation at the level of the gut.
And so you can take healthy people and dramatically change their profile within a matter of weeks of having... you know, this ultra processed foods, these sugar sweetened beverages, you know, which again, like.
And so you can take healthy people and dramatically change their profile within a matter of weeks of having... you know, this ultra processed foods, these sugar sweetened beverages, you know, which again, like.
And so you can take healthy people and dramatically change their profile within a matter of weeks of having... you know, this ultra processed foods, these sugar sweetened beverages, you know, which again, like.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So again, it's, it comes down to, I think, you know, thinking about why you need to eat is so important because then it's like, I need to get micronutrients. I need to get my, my fiber. I need to get protein. When I say fiber, carbohydrates, right? But it needs to be carbohydrates in the form of fruits and vegetables, which have the micronutrients and the fiber, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So again, it's, it comes down to, I think, you know, thinking about why you need to eat is so important because then it's like, I need to get micronutrients. I need to get my, my fiber. I need to get protein. When I say fiber, carbohydrates, right? But it needs to be carbohydrates in the form of fruits and vegetables, which have the micronutrients and the fiber, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So again, it's, it comes down to, I think, you know, thinking about why you need to eat is so important because then it's like, I need to get micronutrients. I need to get my, my fiber. I need to get protein. When I say fiber, carbohydrates, right? But it needs to be carbohydrates in the form of fruits and vegetables, which have the micronutrients and the fiber, right?
And nuts and seeds, yeah, and oats. And then avoiding ultra-processed foods. I think if people were to do that and think about eating that way, and then you have to move, right? You have to be physically active. Being sedentary is a disease, right? Like there's data out there that show people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness.
And nuts and seeds, yeah, and oats. And then avoiding ultra-processed foods. I think if people were to do that and think about eating that way, and then you have to move, right? You have to be physically active. Being sedentary is a disease, right? Like there's data out there that show people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness.
And nuts and seeds, yeah, and oats. And then avoiding ultra-processed foods. I think if people were to do that and think about eating that way, and then you have to move, right? You have to be physically active. Being sedentary is a disease, right? Like there's data out there that show people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness.
So this is a marker of, you know, I mean, it's a marker of how physically active you are, essentially. That's an oversimplification. But people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness have the same disease risk as people with diabetes, cardiovascular disease, smokers.
So this is a marker of, you know, I mean, it's a marker of how physically active you are, essentially. That's an oversimplification. But people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness have the same disease risk as people with diabetes, cardiovascular disease, smokers.
So this is a marker of, you know, I mean, it's a marker of how physically active you are, essentially. That's an oversimplification. But people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness have the same disease risk as people with diabetes, cardiovascular disease, smokers.
Well, cardiorespiratory fitness is something typically you can measure if you go into like a lab that measures them and they put that like a mask. It's a VO2 max. So it's measuring your maximal oxygen uptake under maximal exercise. They put a mask on you. And that's really how you empirically quantify it. However, if you have like a smartwatch, Apple watches do sort of measure it.
Well, cardiorespiratory fitness is something typically you can measure if you go into like a lab that measures them and they put that like a mask. It's a VO2 max. So it's measuring your maximal oxygen uptake under maximal exercise. They put a mask on you. And that's really how you empirically quantify it. However, if you have like a smartwatch, Apple watches do sort of measure it.
Well, cardiorespiratory fitness is something typically you can measure if you go into like a lab that measures them and they put that like a mask. It's a VO2 max. So it's measuring your maximal oxygen uptake under maximal exercise. They put a mask on you. And that's really how you empirically quantify it. However, if you have like a smartwatch, Apple watches do sort of measure it.
It's not really entirely accurate.
It's not really entirely accurate.
It's not really entirely accurate.
Well, you can actually do it. You can do what's called the Cooper test. And so that's basically you do a 12-minute run on a flat surface like a track. If you have hills, it's harder to run hills. And so you're trying to run as fast as you can maintain for that 12 minutes. So it's a maintainable 12-minute pace, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a calculation.
Well, you can actually do it. You can do what's called the Cooper test. And so that's basically you do a 12-minute run on a flat surface like a track. If you have hills, it's harder to run hills. And so you're trying to run as fast as you can maintain for that 12 minutes. So it's a maintainable 12-minute pace, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a calculation.
Well, you can actually do it. You can do what's called the Cooper test. And so that's basically you do a 12-minute run on a flat surface like a track. If you have hills, it's harder to run hills. And so you're trying to run as fast as you can maintain for that 12 minutes. So it's a maintainable 12-minute pace, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a calculation.
You can look it up, the Cooper test, and you can sort of get a good estimate of your VO2 max. Yeah, yeah.
You can look it up, the Cooper test, and you can sort of get a good estimate of your VO2 max. Yeah, yeah.
You can look it up, the Cooper test, and you can sort of get a good estimate of your VO2 max. Yeah, yeah.
You know, there's an argument to be made for exercise snacks. You know, so these are short bursts of, you know, physical activity where you're getting your heart rate above, you know, 70% max heart rate. So you're getting more into the vigorous exercise, you know, range. And there have been some studies. They're called the VILPA studies. Are you familiar with these?
You know, there's an argument to be made for exercise snacks. You know, so these are short bursts of, you know, physical activity where you're getting your heart rate above, you know, 70% max heart rate. So you're getting more into the vigorous exercise, you know, range. And there have been some studies. They're called the VILPA studies. Are you familiar with these?
You know, there's an argument to be made for exercise snacks. You know, so these are short bursts of, you know, physical activity where you're getting your heart rate above, you know, 70% max heart rate. So you're getting more into the vigorous exercise, you know, range. And there have been some studies. They're called the VILPA studies. Are you familiar with these?
These are Vigorous Intermittent Lifestyle Activity Studies. And Martin Kabbalah, he's an expert on high-intensity interval training. I've had him on my podcast. He's involved in a lot of this research.
These are Vigorous Intermittent Lifestyle Activity Studies. And Martin Kabbalah, he's an expert on high-intensity interval training. I've had him on my podcast. He's involved in a lot of this research.
These are Vigorous Intermittent Lifestyle Activity Studies. And Martin Kabbalah, he's an expert on high-intensity interval training. I've had him on my podcast. He's involved in a lot of this research.
Sort of, yeah. People are wearing these wearable devices that they can measure their heart rate. And so scientists can see when they're getting these bursts of high-intensity exercise. So this type of exercise is actually not structured. What you're talking about would be structured, right, where you get up and do burpees or air squats or high knees or jumping jacks.
Sort of, yeah. People are wearing these wearable devices that they can measure their heart rate. And so scientists can see when they're getting these bursts of high-intensity exercise. So this type of exercise is actually not structured. What you're talking about would be structured, right, where you get up and do burpees or air squats or high knees or jumping jacks.
Sort of, yeah. People are wearing these wearable devices that they can measure their heart rate. And so scientists can see when they're getting these bursts of high-intensity exercise. So this type of exercise is actually not structured. What you're talking about would be structured, right, where you get up and do burpees or air squats or high knees or jumping jacks.
This is where people sort of take advantage of everyday situations. So they sprint up the stairs, right, and run. They're running to some place rather than walking. So they're really using their everyday lifestyle to kind of get their heart rate up.
This is where people sort of take advantage of everyday situations. So they sprint up the stairs, right, and run. They're running to some place rather than walking. So they're really using their everyday lifestyle to kind of get their heart rate up.
This is where people sort of take advantage of everyday situations. So they sprint up the stairs, right, and run. They're running to some place rather than walking. So they're really using their everyday lifestyle to kind of get their heart rate up.
Well, people that do that do anywhere between three to nine minutes a day have a 40 percent reduction in cancer mortality, a 50 percent reduction in cardiovascular related mortality, all cause mortality. So this is beneficial for people. And this is even in people that identify as non-exercisers. So just getting like some sort of exercise does have benefits for people in general. Yeah.
Well, people that do that do anywhere between three to nine minutes a day have a 40 percent reduction in cancer mortality, a 50 percent reduction in cardiovascular related mortality, all cause mortality. So this is beneficial for people. And this is even in people that identify as non-exercisers. So just getting like some sort of exercise does have benefits for people in general. Yeah.
Well, people that do that do anywhere between three to nine minutes a day have a 40 percent reduction in cancer mortality, a 50 percent reduction in cardiovascular related mortality, all cause mortality. So this is beneficial for people. And this is even in people that identify as non-exercisers. So just getting like some sort of exercise does have benefits for people in general. Yeah.
Is that also for visceral fat, measuring visceral fat?
Is that also for visceral fat, measuring visceral fat?
Is that also for visceral fat, measuring visceral fat?
Are you familiar with some of the – there's some gene variations in the transporter that transports magnesium into cells. And people with a gene variation that obscures the transport, so basically they're not getting as much magnesium into their cells, are much more likely to have type 2 diabetes. So there's really some, I would say, more causal evidence there, right?
Are you familiar with some of the – there's some gene variations in the transporter that transports magnesium into cells. And people with a gene variation that obscures the transport, so basically they're not getting as much magnesium into their cells, are much more likely to have type 2 diabetes. So there's really some, I would say, more causal evidence there, right?
Are you familiar with some of the – there's some gene variations in the transporter that transports magnesium into cells. And people with a gene variation that obscures the transport, so basically they're not getting as much magnesium into their cells, are much more likely to have type 2 diabetes. So there's really some, I would say, more causal evidence there, right?
Because one would argue, well, people that are low in magnesium are also – eating a refined sugar diet and they're not exercising and all these other potential unhealthy lifestyle factors that could be contributing. But when you look at the genetics, right, I mean, it doesn't lie. So you're looking at someone that's not getting enough magnesium.
Because one would argue, well, people that are low in magnesium are also – eating a refined sugar diet and they're not exercising and all these other potential unhealthy lifestyle factors that could be contributing. But when you look at the genetics, right, I mean, it doesn't lie. So you're looking at someone that's not getting enough magnesium.
Because one would argue, well, people that are low in magnesium are also – eating a refined sugar diet and they're not exercising and all these other potential unhealthy lifestyle factors that could be contributing. But when you look at the genetics, right, I mean, it doesn't lie. So you're looking at someone that's not getting enough magnesium.
They are, you know, insufficient and deficient in some cases. And their risk for type 2 diabetes just skyrockets.
They are, you know, insufficient and deficient in some cases. And their risk for type 2 diabetes just skyrockets.
They are, you know, insufficient and deficient in some cases. And their risk for type 2 diabetes just skyrockets.
Yeah. So the vitamin D, magnesium, omega-3 we talked about, right? You know, believe it or not, a lot of people, I don't remember the exact percentage, but quite a bit of people are not getting enough vitamin C. Something like 30 or 40 percent or something like that are not getting enough vitamin C. Yeah.
Yeah. So the vitamin D, magnesium, omega-3 we talked about, right? You know, believe it or not, a lot of people, I don't remember the exact percentage, but quite a bit of people are not getting enough vitamin C. Something like 30 or 40 percent or something like that are not getting enough vitamin C. Yeah.
Yeah. So the vitamin D, magnesium, omega-3 we talked about, right? You know, believe it or not, a lot of people, I don't remember the exact percentage, but quite a bit of people are not getting enough vitamin C. Something like 30 or 40 percent or something like that are not getting enough vitamin C. Yeah.
That's unbelievable. Just not eating any vegetables or fruits because vitamin C is also in vegetables, not just in fruits. Calcium is another one. So, I mean, these are things that can be tested for and measured. Another one is vitamin E. People are not getting enough vitamin E. Again, that's also found in things like avocados, nuts, whole grains. And then potassium is a big one because...
That's unbelievable. Just not eating any vegetables or fruits because vitamin C is also in vegetables, not just in fruits. Calcium is another one. So, I mean, these are things that can be tested for and measured. Another one is vitamin E. People are not getting enough vitamin E. Again, that's also found in things like avocados, nuts, whole grains. And then potassium is a big one because...
That's unbelievable. Just not eating any vegetables or fruits because vitamin C is also in vegetables, not just in fruits. Calcium is another one. So, I mean, these are things that can be tested for and measured. Another one is vitamin E. People are not getting enough vitamin E. Again, that's also found in things like avocados, nuts, whole grains. And then potassium is a big one because...
It's so important for the sodium-potassium pump, which plays a role in blood pressure. And so when you're talking about too much sodium and not enough potassium, it's really exacerbating that not getting enough potassium aspect, right? Because that ratio is so important. And so not only are – I think it's something like 96% of the U.S. population doesn't meet the adequate intake for potassium.
It's so important for the sodium-potassium pump, which plays a role in blood pressure. And so when you're talking about too much sodium and not enough potassium, it's really exacerbating that not getting enough potassium aspect, right? Because that ratio is so important. And so not only are – I think it's something like 96% of the U.S. population doesn't meet the adequate intake for potassium.
It's so important for the sodium-potassium pump, which plays a role in blood pressure. And so when you're talking about too much sodium and not enough potassium, it's really exacerbating that not getting enough potassium aspect, right? Because that ratio is so important. And so not only are – I think it's something like 96% of the U.S. population doesn't meet the adequate intake for potassium.
It's essentially everyone. Right.
It's essentially everyone. Right.
It's essentially everyone. Right.
It's the other way around. Exactly. And so there's, you know, all sorts of problems with blood pressure and, you know, gosh, it's like even like 30% of like individuals age 20 to 39 have hypertension. Yeah. These are young adults with hypertension. Yeah. We now know that hypertension isn't just a risk for cardiovascular disease.
It's the other way around. Exactly. And so there's, you know, all sorts of problems with blood pressure and, you know, gosh, it's like even like 30% of like individuals age 20 to 39 have hypertension. Yeah. These are young adults with hypertension. Yeah. We now know that hypertension isn't just a risk for cardiovascular disease.
It's the other way around. Exactly. And so there's, you know, all sorts of problems with blood pressure and, you know, gosh, it's like even like 30% of like individuals age 20 to 39 have hypertension. Yeah. These are young adults with hypertension. Yeah. We now know that hypertension isn't just a risk for cardiovascular disease.
It's a risk for dementia and Alzheimer's disease, particularly if you start earlier, right? If you're like a younger person, so like it's cumulative exposure to hypertension. You know, it's important because you have to get blood flowed to your brain, right?
It's a risk for dementia and Alzheimer's disease, particularly if you start earlier, right? If you're like a younger person, so like it's cumulative exposure to hypertension. You know, it's important because you have to get blood flowed to your brain, right?
It's a risk for dementia and Alzheimer's disease, particularly if you start earlier, right? If you're like a younger person, so like it's cumulative exposure to hypertension. You know, it's important because you have to get blood flowed to your brain, right?
And, you know, you've got all these tiny, like 90% of the brain vasculature surrounding the brain is made of these tiny, tiny blood vessels that are like this smaller than the size of a hair in terms of diameter. And they have to get blood flow to them. So exercise helps that. But hypertension exacerbates the lack of blood flow going to those blood vessels.
And, you know, you've got all these tiny, like 90% of the brain vasculature surrounding the brain is made of these tiny, tiny blood vessels that are like this smaller than the size of a hair in terms of diameter. And they have to get blood flow to them. So exercise helps that. But hypertension exacerbates the lack of blood flow going to those blood vessels.
And, you know, you've got all these tiny, like 90% of the brain vasculature surrounding the brain is made of these tiny, tiny blood vessels that are like this smaller than the size of a hair in terms of diameter. And they have to get blood flow to them. So exercise helps that. But hypertension exacerbates the lack of blood flow going to those blood vessels.
And what happens is they're so tiny, they start to sort of constrict and sort of fall off automatically.
And what happens is they're so tiny, they start to sort of constrict and sort of fall off automatically.
And what happens is they're so tiny, they start to sort of constrict and sort of fall off automatically.
Mini strokes, but also neurons don't get the nutrients and the oxygen they need. And so then you start to lose neurons, right? And you get brain atrophy. And so there's this connection between hypertension and dementia. And I'm talking about potassium here because potassium does play an important role in-
Mini strokes, but also neurons don't get the nutrients and the oxygen they need. And so then you start to lose neurons, right? And you get brain atrophy. And so there's this connection between hypertension and dementia. And I'm talking about potassium here because potassium does play an important role in-
Mini strokes, but also neurons don't get the nutrients and the oxygen they need. And so then you start to lose neurons, right? And you get brain atrophy. And so there's this connection between hypertension and dementia. And I'm talking about potassium here because potassium does play an important role in-
I think there's some evidence also I've seen that vitamin D plays a role in preventing that as well. And it's funny, like when I was pregnant, I asked my OBGYN for a vitamin D test. Do you want to know what his answer was?
I think there's some evidence also I've seen that vitamin D plays a role in preventing that as well. And it's funny, like when I was pregnant, I asked my OBGYN for a vitamin D test. Do you want to know what his answer was?
I think there's some evidence also I've seen that vitamin D plays a role in preventing that as well. And it's funny, like when I was pregnant, I asked my OBGYN for a vitamin D test. Do you want to know what his answer was?
Why? It's going to be low. Why is it going to be low? Why? It's going to be low. Just take it anyway. Are you kidding me? You're telling me why do I need to test? It's just going to be low? And I'm like, well, I want to test. And yes, I'm going to be supplementing, but I want to know how much I'm going to be supplementing with. But it was just really astonishing to me, that mentality.
Why? It's going to be low. Why is it going to be low? Why? It's going to be low. Just take it anyway. Are you kidding me? You're telling me why do I need to test? It's just going to be low? And I'm like, well, I want to test. And yes, I'm going to be supplementing, but I want to know how much I'm going to be supplementing with. But it was just really astonishing to me, that mentality.
Why? It's going to be low. Why is it going to be low? Why? It's going to be low. Just take it anyway. Are you kidding me? You're telling me why do I need to test? It's just going to be low? And I'm like, well, I want to test. And yes, I'm going to be supplementing, but I want to know how much I'm going to be supplementing with. But it was just really astonishing to me, that mentality.
And actually just recently I went in for – I didn't go to my normal doc. I went into – it was like a sort of ER kind of – or urgent care doc. And I wanted to get my vitamin D levels measured. And he goes, you know that's falling out of vogue now. And I just gave him this long lecture. I mean, I was like, I went in deep. I looked at him and he goes, is this your area of expertise?
And actually just recently I went in for – I didn't go to my normal doc. I went into – it was like a sort of ER kind of – or urgent care doc. And I wanted to get my vitamin D levels measured. And he goes, you know that's falling out of vogue now. And I just gave him this long lecture. I mean, I was like, I went in deep. I looked at him and he goes, is this your area of expertise?
And actually just recently I went in for – I didn't go to my normal doc. I went into – it was like a sort of ER kind of – or urgent care doc. And I wanted to get my vitamin D levels measured. And he goes, you know that's falling out of vogue now. And I just gave him this long lecture. I mean, I was like, I went in deep. I looked at him and he goes, is this your area of expertise?
And I was like, yes, it is. I've done research on it. I've published studies on it. And he kind of was like, okay, all right.
And I was like, yes, it is. I've done research on it. I've published studies on it. And he kind of was like, okay, all right.
And I was like, yes, it is. I've done research on it. I've published studies on it. And he kind of was like, okay, all right.
It is. It is.
It is. It is.
It is. It is.
Yeah. So, you know, one of the last papers that Bruce published, his second to last paper, was called Longevity Vitamins. Yeah. And, you know, it was about these vitamins like vitamin D and magnesium and omega-3, taurine or some other like essential amino acids. Amino acids. play a role in the way we age and slowing age-related decline.
Yeah. So, you know, one of the last papers that Bruce published, his second to last paper, was called Longevity Vitamins. Yeah. And, you know, it was about these vitamins like vitamin D and magnesium and omega-3, taurine or some other like essential amino acids. Amino acids. play a role in the way we age and slowing age-related decline.
Yeah. So, you know, one of the last papers that Bruce published, his second to last paper, was called Longevity Vitamins. Yeah. And, you know, it was about these vitamins like vitamin D and magnesium and omega-3, taurine or some other like essential amino acids. Amino acids. play a role in the way we age and slowing age-related decline.
And there was just a recent study that came out on vitamin D, sufficient levels of vitamin D. People that supplemented with vitamin D were 40% less likely to have dementia. So the reality is is that
And there was just a recent study that came out on vitamin D, sufficient levels of vitamin D. People that supplemented with vitamin D were 40% less likely to have dementia. So the reality is is that
And there was just a recent study that came out on vitamin D, sufficient levels of vitamin D. People that supplemented with vitamin D were 40% less likely to have dementia. So the reality is is that
They don't. They don't. These micronutrients are running everything in our body. And when you have insufficient levels of them, you're not going to necessarily see it, although you probably feel it.
They don't. They don't. These micronutrients are running everything in our body. And when you have insufficient levels of them, you're not going to necessarily see it, although you probably feel it.
They don't. They don't. These micronutrients are running everything in our body. And when you have insufficient levels of them, you're not going to necessarily see it, although you probably feel it.
Right. You don't attach it to that. But it's causing this insidious damage, right? This insidious DNA damage, a little bit of oxidative stress, a little bit of inflammation.
Right. You don't attach it to that. But it's causing this insidious damage, right? This insidious DNA damage, a little bit of oxidative stress, a little bit of inflammation.
Right. You don't attach it to that. But it's causing this insidious damage, right? This insidious DNA damage, a little bit of oxidative stress, a little bit of inflammation.
Right. Or you're getting sick all the time.
Right. Or you're getting sick all the time.
Right. Or you're getting sick all the time.
Depression is interesting. There's a pretty classic study that no one ever talks about where healthy individuals were injected with lipopolysaccharide. So for those listening, this is a component of your bacterial outer cell membranes. It's present in our colon because we have about I don't know how many trillions of bacteria, like so many bacteria in there, right?
Depression is interesting. There's a pretty classic study that no one ever talks about where healthy individuals were injected with lipopolysaccharide. So for those listening, this is a component of your bacterial outer cell membranes. It's present in our colon because we have about I don't know how many trillions of bacteria, like so many bacteria in there, right?
Depression is interesting. There's a pretty classic study that no one ever talks about where healthy individuals were injected with lipopolysaccharide. So for those listening, this is a component of your bacterial outer cell membranes. It's present in our colon because we have about I don't know how many trillions of bacteria, like so many bacteria in there, right?
Okay. 40 or 50 trillion. There's about a gram of lipopolysaccharide in our gut because those bacteria do die off.
Okay. 40 or 50 trillion. There's about a gram of lipopolysaccharide in our gut because those bacteria do die off.
Okay. 40 or 50 trillion. There's about a gram of lipopolysaccharide in our gut because those bacteria do die off.
It does. And when we have gut permeability, lots of things that cause that, it releases it. Right. Also known as leaky gut. It leaches the LPS into our bloodstream. Well, this study took healthy individuals and injected them with an amount of LPS that would be equivalent to something that you could get from intestinal permeability. And it caused depressive symptoms in these individuals.
It does. And when we have gut permeability, lots of things that cause that, it releases it. Right. Also known as leaky gut. It leaches the LPS into our bloodstream. Well, this study took healthy individuals and injected them with an amount of LPS that would be equivalent to something that you could get from intestinal permeability. And it caused depressive symptoms in these individuals.
It does. And when we have gut permeability, lots of things that cause that, it releases it. Right. Also known as leaky gut. It leaches the LPS into our bloodstream. Well, this study took healthy individuals and injected them with an amount of LPS that would be equivalent to something that you could get from intestinal permeability. And it caused depressive symptoms in these individuals.
Okay, one, that links inflammation to depression, right? 100%. Two, if those individuals were given EPA, so this is one of the omega-3 fatty acids, it does play a major role in dampening inflammation through a variety of mechanisms like resolvins and mericins and the SPMs. These are all molecules that are resolving inflammation very quickly.
Okay, one, that links inflammation to depression, right? 100%. Two, if those individuals were given EPA, so this is one of the omega-3 fatty acids, it does play a major role in dampening inflammation through a variety of mechanisms like resolvins and mericins and the SPMs. These are all molecules that are resolving inflammation very quickly.
Okay, one, that links inflammation to depression, right? 100%. Two, if those individuals were given EPA, so this is one of the omega-3 fatty acids, it does play a major role in dampening inflammation through a variety of mechanisms like resolvins and mericins and the SPMs. These are all molecules that are resolving inflammation very quickly.
They did not experience those depressive symptoms if they were injected with the LPS.
They did not experience those depressive symptoms if they were injected with the LPS.
They did not experience those depressive symptoms if they were injected with the LPS.
If they have the omega-3s. Yeah. So it comes down to like, again, you know... And omega-3s have been shown to actually help with depression. They have.
If they have the omega-3s. Yeah. So it comes down to like, again, you know... And omega-3s have been shown to actually help with depression. They have.
If they have the omega-3s. Yeah. So it comes down to like, again, you know... And omega-3s have been shown to actually help with depression. They have.
Yeah. With depression, specifically EPA seems to be very important for depression. And I think that's because there's a really big inflammatory component to depression where, you know, there's now studies showing that people that don't respond to classical SSRIs, so serotonin reuptake inhibitors...
Yeah. With depression, specifically EPA seems to be very important for depression. And I think that's because there's a really big inflammatory component to depression where, you know, there's now studies showing that people that don't respond to classical SSRIs, so serotonin reuptake inhibitors...
Yeah. With depression, specifically EPA seems to be very important for depression. And I think that's because there's a really big inflammatory component to depression where, you know, there's now studies showing that people that don't respond to classical SSRIs, so serotonin reuptake inhibitors...
Exactly. People that don't respond to that, they typically have very, very high levels of C-reactive protein inflammation. So there's like a subset of people. Some people respond and it helps them. But there's a subset, a quite large subset of people that... that have very high inflammatory biomarkers and do not respond to SSRIs.
Exactly. People that don't respond to that, they typically have very, very high levels of C-reactive protein inflammation. So there's like a subset of people. Some people respond and it helps them. But there's a subset, a quite large subset of people that... that have very high inflammatory biomarkers and do not respond to SSRIs.
Exactly. People that don't respond to that, they typically have very, very high levels of C-reactive protein inflammation. So there's like a subset of people. Some people respond and it helps them. But there's a subset, a quite large subset of people that... that have very high inflammatory biomarkers and do not respond to SSRIs.
And so logically, the next question would be, should we lower their inflammation?
And so logically, the next question would be, should we lower their inflammation?
And so logically, the next question would be, should we lower their inflammation?
I completely, a thousand percent agree. I just made this up. So I think that humans, We evolved to eat plants and meat and things, but plants, because of the phytochemicals. So you mentioned sulforaphane, right? So sulforaphane is present in a variety of cruciferous vegetables like broccoli. It's much more – it's not present – I'm sorry.
I completely, a thousand percent agree. I just made this up. So I think that humans, We evolved to eat plants and meat and things, but plants, because of the phytochemicals. So you mentioned sulforaphane, right? So sulforaphane is present in a variety of cruciferous vegetables like broccoli. It's much more – it's not present – I'm sorry.
I completely, a thousand percent agree. I just made this up. So I think that humans, We evolved to eat plants and meat and things, but plants, because of the phytochemicals. So you mentioned sulforaphane, right? So sulforaphane is present in a variety of cruciferous vegetables like broccoli. It's much more – it's not present – I'm sorry.
The precursor to it, glucoraphanin, is present in it, and it gets converted into sulforaphane when the plant matter is broken, chewed, because it activates an enzyme called myrosinase, which converts glucoraphanin into sulforaphane.
The precursor to it, glucoraphanin, is present in it, and it gets converted into sulforaphane when the plant matter is broken, chewed, because it activates an enzyme called myrosinase, which converts glucoraphanin into sulforaphane.
The precursor to it, glucoraphanin, is present in it, and it gets converted into sulforaphane when the plant matter is broken, chewed, because it activates an enzyme called myrosinase, which converts glucoraphanin into sulforaphane.
Exactly. And if you go even further and chew the young plant, the broccoli sprouts, there's about 100 times more glucoraphanin in it.
Exactly. And if you go even further and chew the young plant, the broccoli sprouts, there's about 100 times more glucoraphanin in it.
Exactly. And if you go even further and chew the young plant, the broccoli sprouts, there's about 100 times more glucoraphanin in it.
Yes, broccoli sprouts are really, really high in glucoraphanin. I also take a supplement that's been used in a lot of clinical studies called Avmacol. I don't have any affiliation with them, but they've got a really great method of stabilizing that myrosinase enzyme, which is very unstable. It's also very heat sensitive.
Yes, broccoli sprouts are really, really high in glucoraphanin. I also take a supplement that's been used in a lot of clinical studies called Avmacol. I don't have any affiliation with them, but they've got a really great method of stabilizing that myrosinase enzyme, which is very unstable. It's also very heat sensitive.
Yes, broccoli sprouts are really, really high in glucoraphanin. I also take a supplement that's been used in a lot of clinical studies called Avmacol. I don't have any affiliation with them, but they've got a really great method of stabilizing that myrosinase enzyme, which is very unstable. It's also very heat sensitive.
But before I get sidetracked, sulforaphane is the most potent dietary activator of what's called transcription factor in our body. It's NRF2. And this is... NRF2. Yeah. It's a master regulator of, as you mentioned, detoxification enzymes. So they're called phase two detoxification enzymes. Also phase one biotransformation enzymes.
But before I get sidetracked, sulforaphane is the most potent dietary activator of what's called transcription factor in our body. It's NRF2. And this is... NRF2. Yeah. It's a master regulator of, as you mentioned, detoxification enzymes. So they're called phase two detoxification enzymes. Also phase one biotransformation enzymes.
But before I get sidetracked, sulforaphane is the most potent dietary activator of what's called transcription factor in our body. It's NRF2. And this is... NRF2. Yeah. It's a master regulator of, as you mentioned, detoxification enzymes. So they're called phase two detoxification enzymes. Also phase one biotransformation enzymes.
So those are enzymes that will convert procarcinogens into carcinogens. So NRF2 activation will blunt that. It'll stop that from happening. So think things like nitrites being converted into nitrosamines. Nitrites are present in a lot of processed meats and So Nrf2 activation, typically it's like it gets activated every 80 minutes or so inside of our cells.
So those are enzymes that will convert procarcinogens into carcinogens. So NRF2 activation will blunt that. It'll stop that from happening. So think things like nitrites being converted into nitrosamines. Nitrites are present in a lot of processed meats and So Nrf2 activation, typically it's like it gets activated every 80 minutes or so inside of our cells.
So those are enzymes that will convert procarcinogens into carcinogens. So NRF2 activation will blunt that. It'll stop that from happening. So think things like nitrites being converted into nitrosamines. Nitrites are present in a lot of processed meats and So Nrf2 activation, typically it's like it gets activated every 80 minutes or so inside of our cells.
But if you take sulforaphane, it gets activated every 130 minutes. But if you take sulforaphane, it gets activated like every 80 minutes, something like that, where it's like you're getting like a 60% increase in the activation of this important transcription factor, which is regulating just hundreds of different genes that are antioxidant, involved in antioxidant function, anti-inflammation. Yeah.
But if you take sulforaphane, it gets activated every 130 minutes. But if you take sulforaphane, it gets activated like every 80 minutes, something like that, where it's like you're getting like a 60% increase in the activation of this important transcription factor, which is regulating just hundreds of different genes that are antioxidant, involved in antioxidant function, anti-inflammation. Yeah.
But if you take sulforaphane, it gets activated every 130 minutes. But if you take sulforaphane, it gets activated like every 80 minutes, something like that, where it's like you're getting like a 60% increase in the activation of this important transcription factor, which is regulating just hundreds of different genes that are antioxidant, involved in antioxidant function, anti-inflammation. Yeah.
Clinical studies showing that if you give someone broccoli sprout extract or sulforaphane or glucoraphanin plus the enzyme myrosinase, it increases glutathione in plasma and in the brain by fMRI. I mean, this is unbelievable. Glutathione, as you know, it's one of the major, major antioxidants that our body has. It's very important for the brain function.
Clinical studies showing that if you give someone broccoli sprout extract or sulforaphane or glucoraphanin plus the enzyme myrosinase, it increases glutathione in plasma and in the brain by fMRI. I mean, this is unbelievable. Glutathione, as you know, it's one of the major, major antioxidants that our body has. It's very important for the brain function.
Clinical studies showing that if you give someone broccoli sprout extract or sulforaphane or glucoraphanin plus the enzyme myrosinase, it increases glutathione in plasma and in the brain by fMRI. I mean, this is unbelievable. Glutathione, as you know, it's one of the major, major antioxidants that our body has. It's very important for the brain function.
Other studies in China where there's a lot of air pollution show that people that take about 40 micromoles of sulforaphane, they start to excrete some of the chemicals that are in air pollution like benzene, which is a carcinogen. They excrete it by 60 percent after 24 hours, again, because the activation of the phase two detoxification.
Other studies in China where there's a lot of air pollution show that people that take about 40 micromoles of sulforaphane, they start to excrete some of the chemicals that are in air pollution like benzene, which is a carcinogen. They excrete it by 60 percent after 24 hours, again, because the activation of the phase two detoxification.
Other studies in China where there's a lot of air pollution show that people that take about 40 micromoles of sulforaphane, they start to excrete some of the chemicals that are in air pollution like benzene, which is a carcinogen. They excrete it by 60 percent after 24 hours, again, because the activation of the phase two detoxification.
Exactly. It's very, so I've been telling all my friends in LA to get.
Exactly. It's very, so I've been telling all my friends in LA to get.
Exactly. It's very, so I've been telling all my friends in LA to get.
I think the phytochemicals, again, I'm 100% with you. I think we're supposed to eat these. These are pathways in our body that are activated by a little bit of stress. They're stress response pathways. And the phytochemicals provide that tiny bit of stress that activates them in a way that's powerful enough to not only deal with a little bit of stress, but to deal with the stress of aging.
I think the phytochemicals, again, I'm 100% with you. I think we're supposed to eat these. These are pathways in our body that are activated by a little bit of stress. They're stress response pathways. And the phytochemicals provide that tiny bit of stress that activates them in a way that's powerful enough to not only deal with a little bit of stress, but to deal with the stress of aging.
I think the phytochemicals, again, I'm 100% with you. I think we're supposed to eat these. These are pathways in our body that are activated by a little bit of stress. They're stress response pathways. And the phytochemicals provide that tiny bit of stress that activates them in a way that's powerful enough to not only deal with a little bit of stress, but to deal with the stress of aging.
And anthocyanins from blueberries. I mean, this is another one. We've got so many randomized controlled trials now on giving people blueberry extract powder with actual anthocyanins versus like the, you know, just taste of it. So it's placebo. It improves cognitive function across the lifespan. Kids, adolescents, older adults. It lowers damage to DNA. It improves blood flow to the brain.
And anthocyanins from blueberries. I mean, this is another one. We've got so many randomized controlled trials now on giving people blueberry extract powder with actual anthocyanins versus like the, you know, just taste of it. So it's placebo. It improves cognitive function across the lifespan. Kids, adolescents, older adults. It lowers damage to DNA. It improves blood flow to the brain.
And anthocyanins from blueberries. I mean, this is another one. We've got so many randomized controlled trials now on giving people blueberry extract powder with actual anthocyanins versus like the, you know, just taste of it. So it's placebo. It improves cognitive function across the lifespan. Kids, adolescents, older adults. It lowers damage to DNA. It improves blood flow to the brain.
You know, this is equivalent to like a cup of blueberries a day. So it's so important to get these phytochemicals. It's not only important to eat the fruits and the vegetables because of the micronutrients, but the phytochemicals as well. And Bruce would argue that. Some of these phytochemicals, they're longevity vitamins. We need them. And he argues that.
You know, this is equivalent to like a cup of blueberries a day. So it's so important to get these phytochemicals. It's not only important to eat the fruits and the vegetables because of the micronutrients, but the phytochemicals as well. And Bruce would argue that. Some of these phytochemicals, they're longevity vitamins. We need them. And he argues that.
You know, this is equivalent to like a cup of blueberries a day. So it's so important to get these phytochemicals. It's not only important to eat the fruits and the vegetables because of the micronutrients, but the phytochemicals as well. And Bruce would argue that. Some of these phytochemicals, they're longevity vitamins. We need them. And he argues that.
Exactly, exactly. The antioxidant response element, you were talking about DNA having – there's a sequence in genes in our DNA called antioxidant response elements that respond to this Nrf2 activation, right? So it is. It's evolved into our DNA, and there's ways to do it.
Exactly, exactly. The antioxidant response element, you were talking about DNA having – there's a sequence in genes in our DNA called antioxidant response elements that respond to this Nrf2 activation, right? So it is. It's evolved into our DNA, and there's ways to do it.
Exactly, exactly. The antioxidant response element, you were talking about DNA having – there's a sequence in genes in our DNA called antioxidant response elements that respond to this Nrf2 activation, right? So it is. It's evolved into our DNA, and there's ways to do it.
Xenohormesis, you're talking about plants and phytochemicals, exercise, all these different ways that we're meant to basically –
Xenohormesis, you're talking about plants and phytochemicals, exercise, all these different ways that we're meant to basically –
Xenohormesis, you're talking about plants and phytochemicals, exercise, all these different ways that we're meant to basically –
Yeah. And we really do need to move. I mean, it's not an add-on. It has to be something that's part of your hygiene that you do every day, like brushing your teeth. You have to do it. Even if it's just 10 minutes of exercise, you have to do it. It makes a difference. And our bodies need it. You're depriving your body of it if you don't.
Yeah. And we really do need to move. I mean, it's not an add-on. It has to be something that's part of your hygiene that you do every day, like brushing your teeth. You have to do it. Even if it's just 10 minutes of exercise, you have to do it. It makes a difference. And our bodies need it. You're depriving your body of it if you don't.
Yeah. And we really do need to move. I mean, it's not an add-on. It has to be something that's part of your hygiene that you do every day, like brushing your teeth. You have to do it. Even if it's just 10 minutes of exercise, you have to do it. It makes a difference. And our bodies need it. You're depriving your body of it if you don't.
Yeah, I do have some of the basic things that I think – well, that I take, but also that I think that would help a majority of people that are insufficient in a lot of these micronutrients. And first and foremost, vitamin D supplement. And again, I think generally speaking – Vitamin D, 4,000 IUs a day, pretty, for the most part, gets people to a sufficient-ish level.
Yeah, I do have some of the basic things that I think – well, that I take, but also that I think that would help a majority of people that are insufficient in a lot of these micronutrients. And first and foremost, vitamin D supplement. And again, I think generally speaking – Vitamin D, 4,000 IUs a day, pretty, for the most part, gets people to a sufficient-ish level.
Yeah, I do have some of the basic things that I think – well, that I take, but also that I think that would help a majority of people that are insufficient in a lot of these micronutrients. And first and foremost, vitamin D supplement. And again, I think generally speaking – Vitamin D, 4,000 IUs a day, pretty, for the most part, gets people to a sufficient-ish level.
You have to do a blood test to really know for certain. You may have to take a little more. But starting at 4,000 IUs a day, which is the upper top of the day, is safe. It's safe.
You have to do a blood test to really know for certain. You may have to take a little more. But starting at 4,000 IUs a day, which is the upper top of the day, is safe. It's safe.
You have to do a blood test to really know for certain. You may have to take a little more. But starting at 4,000 IUs a day, which is the upper top of the day, is safe. It's safe.
Exactly. Number two, omega-3 fatty acids. And this is something where Bill Harris has published studies looking at how do you get someone who is low omega-3 index, so 4% omega-3 index up to an 8%. Turns out it takes close to about two grams a day.
Exactly. Number two, omega-3 fatty acids. And this is something where Bill Harris has published studies looking at how do you get someone who is low omega-3 index, so 4% omega-3 index up to an 8%. Turns out it takes close to about two grams a day.
Exactly. Number two, omega-3 fatty acids. And this is something where Bill Harris has published studies looking at how do you get someone who is low omega-3 index, so 4% omega-3 index up to an 8%. Turns out it takes close to about two grams a day.
Exactly. So that, I think, is a pretty simple solution.
Exactly. So that, I think, is a pretty simple solution.
Exactly. So that, I think, is a pretty simple solution.
1.5 to 2 grams. You get most people that are in a 4% low range to an 8% high range.
1.5 to 2 grams. You get most people that are in a 4% low range to an 8% high range.
1.5 to 2 grams. You get most people that are in a 4% low range to an 8% high range.
Usually it's like a 2 to 1 ratio. EPA to DHA. Yeah. For the most part, something close to that.
Usually it's like a 2 to 1 ratio. EPA to DHA. Yeah. For the most part, something close to that.
Usually it's like a 2 to 1 ratio. EPA to DHA. Yeah. For the most part, something close to that.
But I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. Number three and number four are kind of tied, but I think a multivitamin is a really good insurance because... you know, there's selenium, you know, boron. Yeah. There's, you know, the B vitamins that, you know, you're getting, there's vitamin A, there's so many different micronutrients and that really covers a lot of the bases.
But I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. Number three and number four are kind of tied, but I think a multivitamin is a really good insurance because... you know, there's selenium, you know, boron. Yeah. There's, you know, the B vitamins that, you know, you're getting, there's vitamin A, there's so many different micronutrients and that really covers a lot of the bases.
But I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. Number three and number four are kind of tied, but I think a multivitamin is a really good insurance because... you know, there's selenium, you know, boron. Yeah. There's, you know, the B vitamins that, you know, you're getting, there's vitamin A, there's so many different micronutrients and that really covers a lot of the bases.
So I think a pretty high quality multivitamin is good along with magnesium. So magnesium, because such a large percentage of people are not getting enough magnesium, magnesium, it is so important to for a variety of processes, DNA damage, brain function, muscle function. People that are physically active, they sweat out magnesium, so you might need anywhere between 10% to 20% more than the RDA.
So I think a pretty high quality multivitamin is good along with magnesium. So magnesium, because such a large percentage of people are not getting enough magnesium, magnesium, it is so important to for a variety of processes, DNA damage, brain function, muscle function. People that are physically active, they sweat out magnesium, so you might need anywhere between 10% to 20% more than the RDA.
So I think a pretty high quality multivitamin is good along with magnesium. So magnesium, because such a large percentage of people are not getting enough magnesium, magnesium, it is so important to for a variety of processes, DNA damage, brain function, muscle function. People that are physically active, they sweat out magnesium, so you might need anywhere between 10% to 20% more than the RDA.
Stress depletes it. And alcohol. Exactly.
Stress depletes it. And alcohol. Exactly.
Stress depletes it. And alcohol. Exactly.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Yes. And so you want to make sure you're getting an organic salt. So that would be something like magnesium citrate, magnesium malate, magnesium glycinate.
Yes. And so you want to make sure you're getting an organic salt. So that would be something like magnesium citrate, magnesium malate, magnesium glycinate.
Yes. And so you want to make sure you're getting an organic salt. So that would be something like magnesium citrate, magnesium malate, magnesium glycinate.
Right. So those are the organic salts which are more bioavailable.
Right. So those are the organic salts which are more bioavailable.
Right. So those are the organic salts which are more bioavailable.
So that would be another one. And then I add to my essentials the sulforaphane. I used to sprout, and I no longer do that because my excuses. Yeah, I'm, you know.
So that would be another one. And then I add to my essentials the sulforaphane. I used to sprout, and I no longer do that because my excuses. Yeah, I'm, you know.
So that would be another one. And then I add to my essentials the sulforaphane. I used to sprout, and I no longer do that because my excuses. Yeah, I'm, you know.
It's like the worst thing you can do for your health. But I trust the science that I've read looking at the supplement that I take, which, again, it's a really good supplement, Avmacol. And they have about – the advanced formula is what I take. I take about two to four a day depending on – And we'll put the link in the show notes for that. They're great.
It's like the worst thing you can do for your health. But I trust the science that I've read looking at the supplement that I take, which, again, it's a really good supplement, Avmacol. And they have about – the advanced formula is what I take. I take about two to four a day depending on – And we'll put the link in the show notes for that. They're great.
It's like the worst thing you can do for your health. But I trust the science that I've read looking at the supplement that I take, which, again, it's a really good supplement, Avmacol. And they have about – the advanced formula is what I take. I take about two to four a day depending on – And we'll put the link in the show notes for that. They're great.
And they publish studies on them improving autism. So it's affecting the brain. So it's approved autism spectrum disorder in kids with autism, adolescents with autism. But it's a very strong activator of glutathione, right? So NRF2 pathway. So that's my phytochemical.
And they publish studies on them improving autism. So it's affecting the brain. So it's approved autism spectrum disorder in kids with autism, adolescents with autism. But it's a very strong activator of glutathione, right? So NRF2 pathway. So that's my phytochemical.
And they publish studies on them improving autism. So it's affecting the brain. So it's approved autism spectrum disorder in kids with autism, adolescents with autism. But it's a very strong activator of glutathione, right? So NRF2 pathway. So that's my phytochemical.
It is, yeah. It's a major, major antioxidant in the body.
It is, yeah. It's a major, major antioxidant in the body.
It is, yeah. It's a major, major antioxidant in the body.
You know, it depends. So some people get a laxative effect and they want that.
You know, it depends. So some people get a laxative effect and they want that.
You know, it depends. So some people get a laxative effect and they want that.
Even with even with higher doses of other forms, they can. But yeah. So, I mean, I think it depends on your diet. Like if you're not eating a lot of plants, shame on you. You need to increase that. But, you know, about 250, 300 milligrams, you know, is a good is a good range.
Even with even with higher doses of other forms, they can. But yeah. So, I mean, I think it depends on your diet. Like if you're not eating a lot of plants, shame on you. You need to increase that. But, you know, about 250, 300 milligrams, you know, is a good is a good range.
Even with even with higher doses of other forms, they can. But yeah. So, I mean, I think it depends on your diet. Like if you're not eating a lot of plants, shame on you. You need to increase that. But, you know, about 250, 300 milligrams, you know, is a good is a good range.
Now, if you're trying to treat like migraines and stuff, you might have to go higher, like some studies show like 600 milligrams. And then there's the form of magnesium, magnesium threonate, that's thought to cross the blood-brain barrier more effectively for brain health because magnesium doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier very well.
Now, if you're trying to treat like migraines and stuff, you might have to go higher, like some studies show like 600 milligrams. And then there's the form of magnesium, magnesium threonate, that's thought to cross the blood-brain barrier more effectively for brain health because magnesium doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier very well.
Now, if you're trying to treat like migraines and stuff, you might have to go higher, like some studies show like 600 milligrams. And then there's the form of magnesium, magnesium threonate, that's thought to cross the blood-brain barrier more effectively for brain health because magnesium doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier very well.
But magnesium threonate isn't essentially – it's not necessarily going to do the DNA damage repair aspect of magnesium. So make sure you're getting both if you're doing that. Yeah. Yeah. So like for me, I take like about 250 milligrams, maybe 300 milligrams.
But magnesium threonate isn't essentially – it's not necessarily going to do the DNA damage repair aspect of magnesium. So make sure you're getting both if you're doing that. Yeah. Yeah. So like for me, I take like about 250 milligrams, maybe 300 milligrams.
But magnesium threonate isn't essentially – it's not necessarily going to do the DNA damage repair aspect of magnesium. So make sure you're getting both if you're doing that. Yeah. Yeah. So like for me, I take like about 250 milligrams, maybe 300 milligrams.
Yeah. Then there's a bunch of other things you could add to that list as you're going.
Yeah. Then there's a bunch of other things you could add to that list as you're going.
Yeah. Then there's a bunch of other things you could add to that list as you're going.
It is. It's amazing. I mean, I think I think it's as Bruce would say, you know, it's a really it's affordable. It's it's easily correctable for pretty cheap and it will have a huge difference in the way you age.
It is. It's amazing. I mean, I think I think it's as Bruce would say, you know, it's a really it's affordable. It's it's easily correctable for pretty cheap and it will have a huge difference in the way you age.
It is. It's amazing. I mean, I think I think it's as Bruce would say, you know, it's a really it's affordable. It's it's easily correctable for pretty cheap and it will have a huge difference in the way you age.
Okay, great. Thank you. So I have a podcast. It's called Found My Fitness. I'm on YouTube.
Okay, great. Thank you. So I have a podcast. It's called Found My Fitness. I'm on YouTube.
Okay, great. Thank you. So I have a podcast. It's called Found My Fitness. I'm on YouTube.
Let me know when you're in San Diego.
Let me know when you're in San Diego.
Let me know when you're in San Diego.
So Found My Fitness, it's on YouTube. It's on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. I have a website, foundmyfitness.com. And I also am on social media, Instagram, X as Found My Fitness, or you can look up Rhonda Patrick. I have some free guides out there. I have one on omega-3. We talked a lot about it. So how to choose a good omega-3 supplement.
So Found My Fitness, it's on YouTube. It's on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. I have a website, foundmyfitness.com. And I also am on social media, Instagram, X as Found My Fitness, or you can look up Rhonda Patrick. I have some free guides out there. I have one on omega-3. We talked a lot about it. So how to choose a good omega-3 supplement.
So Found My Fitness, it's on YouTube. It's on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. I have a website, foundmyfitness.com. And I also am on social media, Instagram, X as Found My Fitness, or you can look up Rhonda Patrick. I have some free guides out there. I have one on omega-3. We talked a lot about it. So how to choose a good omega-3 supplement.
So I kind of have a guide on that in terms of like – and I talk about some of the science of omega-3. So you can find that at omega3guide.com.
So I kind of have a guide on that in terms of like – and I talk about some of the science of omega-3. So you can find that at omega3guide.com.
So I kind of have a guide on that in terms of like – and I talk about some of the science of omega-3. So you can find that at omega3guide.com.
And then I have another free guide on improving brain health through brain-derived neurotrophic factor and a variety of exercise protocols and polyphenol protocols that have been published to improve brain health. And that's bdnfprotocols.com. You can find that there. I have a new guide out, how to train, from all the exports that I've had on the podcast.
And then I have another free guide on improving brain health through brain-derived neurotrophic factor and a variety of exercise protocols and polyphenol protocols that have been published to improve brain health. And that's bdnfprotocols.com. You can find that there. I have a new guide out, how to train, from all the exports that I've had on the podcast.
And then I have another free guide on improving brain health through brain-derived neurotrophic factor and a variety of exercise protocols and polyphenol protocols that have been published to improve brain health. And that's bdnfprotocols.com. You can find that there. I have a new guide out, how to train, from all the exports that I've had on the podcast.
It's a good one. It's how to train. So it's like to improve VO2 max. We talked about that. How to Train to Improve Muscle Mass, Strength, Function. And it's according to all the incredible experts that I've had on my podcast. And that is the howtotrainguide.com. So those are all just free information that people can get by going and downloading the guide.
It's a good one. It's how to train. So it's like to improve VO2 max. We talked about that. How to Train to Improve Muscle Mass, Strength, Function. And it's according to all the incredible experts that I've had on my podcast. And that is the howtotrainguide.com. So those are all just free information that people can get by going and downloading the guide.
It's a good one. It's how to train. So it's like to improve VO2 max. We talked about that. How to Train to Improve Muscle Mass, Strength, Function. And it's according to all the incredible experts that I've had on my podcast. And that is the howtotrainguide.com. So those are all just free information that people can get by going and downloading the guide.
So thank you so much, Mark, for having me on the podcast. Very interesting discussion. We share a lot of common passions with nutrition and micronutrients.
So thank you so much, Mark, for having me on the podcast. Very interesting discussion. We share a lot of common passions with nutrition and micronutrients.
So thank you so much, Mark, for having me on the podcast. Very interesting discussion. We share a lot of common passions with nutrition and micronutrients.
Appreciate it. Thank you, Mark.
Appreciate it. Thank you, Mark.
Appreciate it. Thank you, Mark.
Well, the answer to that, my real answer to that is kind of like more hardcore science. And I don't know if you want that or not. But it actually has to do with like 20 years ago, I thought aging was caused by... an accumulation of damage that we're just getting over time.
Well, the answer to that, my real answer to that is kind of like more hardcore science. And I don't know if you want that or not. But it actually has to do with like 20 years ago, I thought aging was caused by... an accumulation of damage that we're just getting over time.
So damage just in general to our DNA, to our proteins, for our mitochondria, you know, and you have these hallmarks of aging and you have to go and fix each hallmark, like a surgeon. And it's like, you have to fix your genomic instability and you have to fix your mitochondria and you have to fix everything right now. I think aging is a program password 20 years. I think aging is a program and it,
So damage just in general to our DNA, to our proteins, for our mitochondria, you know, and you have these hallmarks of aging and you have to go and fix each hallmark, like a surgeon. And it's like, you have to fix your genomic instability and you have to fix your mitochondria and you have to fix everything right now. I think aging is a program password 20 years. I think aging is a program and it,
It's something that is in our DNA at the level of our epigenome. So our epigenetics, these are things that are sort of kind of on top of our DNA that turn our genes on and activate them or turn them off and deactivate them. And it comes down to this concept of Dr. Steve Horvath's biological agent clocks. You've heard of these? The biological agent clocks.
It's something that is in our DNA at the level of our epigenome. So our epigenetics, these are things that are sort of kind of on top of our DNA that turn our genes on and activate them or turn them off and deactivate them. And it comes down to this concept of Dr. Steve Horvath's biological agent clocks. You've heard of these? The biological agent clocks.
Biological aging, right. How do you test that? There's a variety of tests for it.
Biological aging, right. How do you test that? There's a variety of tests for it.
There's a blood work test. And they test, they're called methyl groups. Essentially, they're just carbon with three hydrogens. And there's a pattern of them on our DNA. There's a pattern of them. And this pattern... I think is the aging program.
There's a blood work test. And they test, they're called methyl groups. Essentially, they're just carbon with three hydrogens. And there's a pattern of them on our DNA. There's a pattern of them. And this pattern... I think is the aging program.
I'm following the leading scientists, but now this is, this is now my belief 20 years later that there is a program of aging and it's these patterns of these methyl groups on our DNA that change with time that makes us age.
I'm following the leading scientists, but now this is, this is now my belief 20 years later that there is a program of aging and it's these patterns of these methyl groups on our DNA that change with time that makes us age.
And the reason I think that is because if you think about reproduction, so if you think about like a sperm and an egg, I mean, these aren't young cells and in the best case scenario, I mean, you got like a 20 year old, but like, yeah, You know, a lot of people are reproducing at 30 and 40, right? So these are older cells. I mean, they're still older even at 20. They're older. They come together.
And the reason I think that is because if you think about reproduction, so if you think about like a sperm and an egg, I mean, these aren't young cells and in the best case scenario, I mean, you got like a 20 year old, but like, yeah, You know, a lot of people are reproducing at 30 and 40, right? So these are older cells. I mean, they're still older even at 20. They're older. They come together.
They recombine. Their epigenome completely resets, and they make a young organism with no sign of aging.
They recombine. Their epigenome completely resets, and they make a young organism with no sign of aging.
No sign of aging.
No sign of aging.
The epigenome resets, completely resets. and there's no sign of aging.
The epigenome resets, completely resets. and there's no sign of aging.
That's the question. And so now, there have been over the last, I would say, oh gosh, Five to seven years. There's been... So, okay, let me take it even a step further back. Okay. Back in 2006, Shinya Yamanaka, a Japanese scientist, won the Nobel Prize for discovering four different genes that are very specific type of genes.
That's the question. And so now, there have been over the last, I would say, oh gosh, Five to seven years. There's been... So, okay, let me take it even a step further back. Okay. Back in 2006, Shinya Yamanaka, a Japanese scientist, won the Nobel Prize for discovering four different genes that are very specific type of genes.
They're called transcription factors because they can regulate a lot of different genes in our body.
They're called transcription factors because they can regulate a lot of different genes in our body.
He discovered that if he took four of these transcription factors and took any cell from the body, any old cell from an 80-year-old woman, skin cell, and he put these four transcription factor genes on them, on that old 80-year-old cell, he could revert it into an embryonic stem cell with no sign of aging, right? It's an embryonic stem cell that now can form any cell in the body.
He discovered that if he took four of these transcription factors and took any cell from the body, any old cell from an 80-year-old woman, skin cell, and he put these four transcription factor genes on them, on that old 80-year-old cell, he could revert it into an embryonic stem cell with no sign of aging, right? It's an embryonic stem cell that now can form any cell in the body.
This is a, it's called induced pluripotent stem cell. So it resets the epigenome completely. The cell loses its identity. It doesn't know it's a skin cell anymore. It's an embryonic stem cell. But it can now form any type of cell, right? And so...
This is a, it's called induced pluripotent stem cell. So it resets the epigenome completely. The cell loses its identity. It doesn't know it's a skin cell anymore. It's an embryonic stem cell. But it can now form any type of cell, right? And so...
So, that is also evidence that resetting the epigenome, at least to the very extreme case, right, all the way to the embryonic stem cell state is a way of reprogramming the cell into a very youthful state. And there's some more lines of evidence. Cloning is another one.
So, that is also evidence that resetting the epigenome, at least to the very extreme case, right, all the way to the embryonic stem cell state is a way of reprogramming the cell into a very youthful state. And there's some more lines of evidence. Cloning is another one.
So, you take a nucleus from like an old cell, put it in a young cytoplasm of an egg, and the epigenome is reset and you have a young organism, right? So, there's other lines of evidence of this.
So, you take a nucleus from like an old cell, put it in a young cytoplasm of an egg, and the epigenome is reset and you have a young organism, right? So, there's other lines of evidence of this.
But in the last five-ish years, there's been some research that have been done by a variety of scientists where they've taken those Yamanaka factors, they're called, the four transcription factors, and they've given them to mice, older mice. And they don't want to make all the mice cells become stem cells, right? Like they don't want the cell to lose its identity.
But in the last five-ish years, there's been some research that have been done by a variety of scientists where they've taken those Yamanaka factors, they're called, the four transcription factors, and they've given them to mice, older mice. And they don't want to make all the mice cells become stem cells, right? Like they don't want the cell to lose its identity.
Almost like a big tumor cell or something. Right. What they want is to reset that epigenome in a way to make it, to return it to a more youthful state. And so they've been able to sort of pulse it on. You just kind of like, you got to find the right timing, the right timing. And so they're making progress with this.
Almost like a big tumor cell or something. Right. What they want is to reset that epigenome in a way to make it, to return it to a more youthful state. And so they've been able to sort of pulse it on. You just kind of like, you got to find the right timing, the right timing. And so they're making progress with this.
And there's been some studies that have shown, you know, you kind of, it's called partial cellular reprogramming. So they're not doing the full on reprogram, but they're partially doing it. And it does rejuvenate a lot of aspects of aging in these rodents. There's a lot of hurdles to overcome. And I know that this was the answer you were looking for, but I'm super excited about it.
And there's been some studies that have shown, you know, you kind of, it's called partial cellular reprogramming. So they're not doing the full on reprogram, but they're partially doing it. And it does rejuvenate a lot of aspects of aging in these rodents. There's a lot of hurdles to overcome. And I know that this was the answer you were looking for, but I'm super excited about it.
It's very interesting. I think that... we are very likely going to...I think there's this process of epigenetic reprogramming and Altos Labs, they're doing phenomenal research. They have a lot of the top scientists, Dr. Steve Horvath, Dr. Morgan Levine. I've had both of them on my podcast. They're both really good.
It's very interesting. I think that... we are very likely going to...I think there's this process of epigenetic reprogramming and Altos Labs, they're doing phenomenal research. They have a lot of the top scientists, Dr. Steve Horvath, Dr. Morgan Levine. I've had both of them on my podcast. They're both really good.
I mean, Dr. Steve Horvath is the one who...he's the pioneer of the Horvath clocks, the epigenetic clocks that can identify this biological age, this molecular age that really identifies like how old you are versus your chronological age. But I do think that if they can figure out some of these hurdles, that we might have a tune-up where we go and get rejuvenated.
I mean, Dr. Steve Horvath is the one who...he's the pioneer of the Horvath clocks, the epigenetic clocks that can identify this biological age, this molecular age that really identifies like how old you are versus your chronological age. But I do think that if they can figure out some of these hurdles, that we might have a tune-up where we go and get rejuvenated.
Right. Exactly. Or more.
Right. Exactly. Or more.
I don't, you know, I don't, I could say a couple decades I could see for sure. Like, because things are really growing. Things are growing. And then gene engineering, you know, there's a lot of exponential growth in some of this synthetic biology world where they're, you know, doing all this gene engineering and it's like, they're just really kind of, like, it's kind of
I don't, you know, I don't, I could say a couple decades I could see for sure. Like, because things are really growing. Things are growing. And then gene engineering, you know, there's a lot of exponential growth in some of this synthetic biology world where they're, you know, doing all this gene engineering and it's like, they're just really kind of, like, it's kind of
I am very cautious when it comes to some of that stuff. So, but it's not that I don't think some of it works. Also, I just, you know, I'm a little bit of a scaredy cat, but I stick with the exercise. I'm just researching.
I am very cautious when it comes to some of that stuff. So, but it's not that I don't think some of it works. Also, I just, you know, I'm a little bit of a scaredy cat, but I stick with the exercise. I'm just researching.
Yeah. And so those are the big things. And, you know, to kind of maybe go back to your question, I would say that, you know, I used to think that, you know, limiting protein was probably like, oh, you're better off being more plant-based. Now, I think exercise is the king. I think exercise is the longevity drug that if you could pill it up, we'd all be taking it. We all should be taking it.
Yeah. And so those are the big things. And, you know, to kind of maybe go back to your question, I would say that, you know, I used to think that, you know, limiting protein was probably like, oh, you're better off being more plant-based. Now, I think exercise is the king. I think exercise is the longevity drug that if you could pill it up, we'd all be taking it. We all should be taking it.
And I think that the protein is important for fueling our muscles, for improving muscle mass, and for... repair as well. And so that would be a bigger thing. And also like, you know, intermittent fasting as well. I still try and I still think that it's important to do a type of it, time-restricted eating.
And I think that the protein is important for fueling our muscles, for improving muscle mass, and for... repair as well. And so that would be a bigger thing. And also like, you know, intermittent fasting as well. I still try and I still think that it's important to do a type of it, time-restricted eating.
Yeah, I don't know exactly what endpoints that he was talking about, but I think the way I sort of think about it is you want to have a fasting period while you're sleeping because if the repair processes that we were talking about to kind of go back to the start of this podcast is that we were talking about your DNA is repaired when you're sleeping.
Yeah, I don't know exactly what endpoints that he was talking about, but I think the way I sort of think about it is you want to have a fasting period while you're sleeping because if the repair processes that we were talking about to kind of go back to the start of this podcast is that we were talking about your DNA is repaired when you're sleeping.
You're cleaning out stuff inside of your cells, pieces of DNA from cells dividing that have just kind of fragmented off or gunk, you know, just pieces of the cell, like there's all this gunk in our cells. And that process is cleared out.
You're cleaning out stuff inside of your cells, pieces of DNA from cells dividing that have just kind of fragmented off or gunk, you know, just pieces of the cell, like there's all this gunk in our cells. And that process is cleared out.
When you sleep. However, if you just ate a meal before you hit the pillow, Your digestion, all that stuff, that goes on for like five hours. There's a lot of stuff happening that shunts energy away from that. The energy ships from repair. It's still in digestive mode.
When you sleep. However, if you just ate a meal before you hit the pillow, Your digestion, all that stuff, that goes on for like five hours. There's a lot of stuff happening that shunts energy away from that. The energy ships from repair. It's still in digestive mode.
So repair mode needs to be fasted.
So repair mode needs to be fasted.
I think typically it's like three hours are what a lot of the experts like Dr. Satch and Panda have sort of come to the conclusion. Because if you think about, if you finished eating three hours before you go to sleep, then for the first two hours, you're going to be finishing up the digestion process, right? And then the rest of the time, it's repair mode, right? It's repair mode.
I think typically it's like three hours are what a lot of the experts like Dr. Satch and Panda have sort of come to the conclusion. Because if you think about, if you finished eating three hours before you go to sleep, then for the first two hours, you're going to be finishing up the digestion process, right? And then the rest of the time, it's repair mode, right? It's repair mode.
So you want to give your body repair mode. And that's where I...
So you want to give your body repair mode. And that's where I...
I mean, that's not going to be as big as a meal, right? Like, let's be real. So some people really take it seriously. Like, they don't want to take a vitamin or anything. Like, don't worry about that.
I mean, that's not going to be as big as a meal, right? Like, let's be real. So some people really take it seriously. Like, they don't want to take a vitamin or anything. Like, don't worry about that.
I take my vitamins, like, close to bed, you know? But, yeah, you don't want a full-on meal. I mean, now, of course, there's times when I've been so obsessive about it where then I go to bed hungry and I'm cold because... My metabolism is down.
I take my vitamins, like, close to bed, you know? But, yeah, you don't want a full-on meal. I mean, now, of course, there's times when I've been so obsessive about it where then I go to bed hungry and I'm cold because... My metabolism is down.
And then I don't sleep well. Exactly. I wake up cold all night and I'm like, well, maybe I should have had a little something to eat because that.
And then I don't sleep well. Exactly. I wake up cold all night and I'm like, well, maybe I should have had a little something to eat because that.
It's a different kind of cold.
It's a different kind of cold.
Yeah. It's not like you can put the blanket on and feel.
Yeah. It's not like you can put the blanket on and feel.
It's like, yeah, it's like that cold that you can't, you just can't fit.
It's like, yeah, it's like that cold that you can't, you just can't fit.
Yeah. So, yeah, I will say that I've decided I'm not going to be so obsessive about it. But like with the fasting thing too, what's interesting is I do think that a lot, you know, there's the problem that people could come across is where they're skipping so many meals that they're not getting enough protein, right?
Yeah. So, yeah, I will say that I've decided I'm not going to be so obsessive about it. But like with the fasting thing too, what's interesting is I do think that a lot, you know, there's the problem that people could come across is where they're skipping so many meals that they're not getting enough protein, right?
And then are they working out to make sure they're at least getting that aspect of increasing you know, getting that muscle protein synthesis because... So, if you are going to be doing some intermittent fasting and there's an argument to be made to kind of like do a little once in a while sort of just clean out, right? Where you kind of stress your body a little bit and do that.
And then are they working out to make sure they're at least getting that aspect of increasing you know, getting that muscle protein synthesis because... So, if you are going to be doing some intermittent fasting and there's an argument to be made to kind of like do a little once in a while sort of just clean out, right? Where you kind of stress your body a little bit and do that.
But I feel like, I mean, that's what exercise does. And in fact, exercise activates, vigorous exercise activates a lot of those same repair processes like autophagy. That's one of the things that's happening when you're not eating. It also happens when you're sleeping and not eating. So again, it comes back to exercise forgives a lot of sins. Not all of them, but I mean, it really does.
But I feel like, I mean, that's what exercise does. And in fact, exercise activates, vigorous exercise activates a lot of those same repair processes like autophagy. That's one of the things that's happening when you're not eating. It also happens when you're sleeping and not eating. So again, it comes back to exercise forgives a lot of sins. Not all of them, but I mean, it really does.
So there's a lot, there's been some studies and this isn't, you know, I don't remember the details like in great detail, basically. There have been studies that have looked at like if you eat a high carbohydrate meal for dinner versus a high fat meal versus high protein. And I don't remember all the details. All I remember is that one would improve deep sleep, but the other would improve REM.
So there's a lot, there's been some studies and this isn't, you know, I don't remember the details like in great detail, basically. There have been studies that have looked at like if you eat a high carbohydrate meal for dinner versus a high fat meal versus high protein. And I don't remember all the details. All I remember is that one would improve deep sleep, but the other would improve REM.
And so it was with this kind of mixed bag where it's like, okay, well, if I am going to do the higher carbohydrate meal, then at least I'm going to get one of those other ones. I don't know. I forgot which one it is. been a few years since I read those studies.
And so it was with this kind of mixed bag where it's like, okay, well, if I am going to do the higher carbohydrate meal, then at least I'm going to get one of those other ones. I don't know. I forgot which one it is. been a few years since I read those studies.
But if you're looking at the macronutrient level, I would say that it seems as though different types of foods are affecting different stages of sleep.
But if you're looking at the macronutrient level, I would say that it seems as though different types of foods are affecting different stages of sleep.
It is interesting. And it also is... Sorry to all the people out there that want to say it's the one or the other. I'm just going to tell you what the data says, is that it's like, I don't remember which one improved the deep sleep and which one... Because honestly, I don't know that... Yeah, eating your meal right before bed also kind of
It is interesting. And it also is... Sorry to all the people out there that want to say it's the one or the other. I'm just going to tell you what the data says, is that it's like, I don't remember which one improved the deep sleep and which one... Because honestly, I don't know that... Yeah, eating your meal right before bed also kind of
disrupts your sleep and i think that might be even more important than like what you're eating um as well as getting that physical activity earlier in the day makes a difference and then the other thing that i think is even more important than the food is heat stress it's like doing a hot tub or a sauna that if you do that pretty close to bedtime like not necessarily right before bed but like maybe a couple of hours before bed it really seems to improve sleep really yeah and there's a lot of
disrupts your sleep and i think that might be even more important than like what you're eating um as well as getting that physical activity earlier in the day makes a difference and then the other thing that i think is even more important than the food is heat stress it's like doing a hot tub or a sauna that if you do that pretty close to bedtime like not necessarily right before bed but like maybe a couple of hours before bed it really seems to improve sleep really yeah and there's a lot of
potential reasons for that. But, you know, like growth hormone being one, you know, and also like it increases what are called somnogenic cytokines. So when you get in a hot tub or sauna, you're actually increasing some inflammatory markers that are also called somnogenic cytokines because they induce sleep. And so there's a reason. Now you wanna be able to cool off.
potential reasons for that. But, you know, like growth hormone being one, you know, and also like it increases what are called somnogenic cytokines. So when you get in a hot tub or sauna, you're actually increasing some inflammatory markers that are also called somnogenic cytokines because they induce sleep. And so there's a reason. Now you wanna be able to cool off.
You were talking about being cool. You don't wanna like get in the sauna then get right into bed and you're sweating in bed and then you can't go to sleep. But usually if you take like a shower, a cooler shower after that, you know, or some people like to get in their cold plunge, but you don't have a cold plunge and just do a shower. Cold shower, yeah.
You were talking about being cool. You don't wanna like get in the sauna then get right into bed and you're sweating in bed and then you can't go to sleep. But usually if you take like a shower, a cooler shower after that, you know, or some people like to get in their cold plunge, but you don't have a cold plunge and just do a shower. Cold shower, yeah.
Yeah, and then it really does, in fact, my husband is religious about it every night. He has to do, he does the hot tub. And then cold? And then cold, cold plunge. And then- He sleeps like a baby? Sleeps like a baby, like, because I don't have as much trouble falling asleep. Like, I get, he's more of a night person. Like, I can go to bed at 9, I'll be asleep at 9.30, no problem.
Yeah, and then it really does, in fact, my husband is religious about it every night. He has to do, he does the hot tub. And then cold? And then cold, cold plunge. And then- He sleeps like a baby? Sleeps like a baby, like, because I don't have as much trouble falling asleep. Like, I get, he's more of a night person. Like, I can go to bed at 9, I'll be asleep at 9.30, no problem.
No, it doesn't. No, I know a lot of people use the cold to kind of get that like norepinephrine burst where you wake up in the morning and you get that hit and you feel good and you're sure. No, I'm sure while he's in it, but it's like maybe the combination with the heat does something. But he doesn't just do the cold.
No, it doesn't. No, I know a lot of people use the cold to kind of get that like norepinephrine burst where you wake up in the morning and you get that hit and you feel good and you're sure. No, I'm sure while he's in it, but it's like maybe the combination with the heat does something. But he doesn't just do the cold.
It's hot and cold. But he does the hot for a while and then gets into the cold. Probably he doesn't want to be sweating too much.
It's hot and cold. But he does the hot for a while and then gets into the cold. Probably he doesn't want to be sweating too much.
Perfect for like being healthy.
Perfect for like being healthy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. So what I would do is wake up when I would naturally wake up. I typically naturally wake up around 7 a.m.
Okay. So what I would do is wake up when I would naturally wake up. I typically naturally wake up around 7 a.m.
Just wake up naturally. Yeah. I mean, the only time I use an alarm is if I have to wake up before 7, like I'm doing a sunrise hike or something, or I'm in another time zone or something and I have to use it. But I would wake up naturally, which is usually around 7 a.m., I personally like to have coffee.
Just wake up naturally. Yeah. I mean, the only time I use an alarm is if I have to wake up before 7, like I'm doing a sunrise hike or something, or I'm in another time zone or something and I have to use it. But I would wake up naturally, which is usually around 7 a.m., I personally like to have coffee.
So I, you know, I have my coffee and then sometimes I'll do like a little bit of like maybe a protein shake or I'll have some like egg or something like very light that's protein. And then I'll go outside because I want that early morning light exposure to reset my circadian rhythm so that I, again, fall asleep at the right time.
So I, you know, I have my coffee and then sometimes I'll do like a little bit of like maybe a protein shake or I'll have some like egg or something like very light that's protein. And then I'll go outside because I want that early morning light exposure to reset my circadian rhythm so that I, again, fall asleep at the right time.
And it's really that light exposure early in the morning is very important for that resetting of the circadian rhythm. I would go outside and I work out. I work out outside. Actually, almost all the time. Really? I work out outside. I do my lifting outside. So I would go out and I would do my sort of CrossFit training protocol, which I love. And so this is like an hour-long workout.
And it's really that light exposure early in the morning is very important for that resetting of the circadian rhythm. I would go outside and I work out. I work out outside. Actually, almost all the time. Really? I work out outside. I do my lifting outside. So I would go out and I would do my sort of CrossFit training protocol, which I love. And so this is like an hour-long workout.
And I do some resistance training depending on the day. Maybe I'll do some squats and deadlifts. Mix it in with a workout, maybe some rowing in there, burpees, a little push-ups. You know, I'm getting the best of both worlds. I'm getting the hit and the resistance training. I do that for an hour. And then I would probably have the sauna already on and it would be about 175.
And I do some resistance training depending on the day. Maybe I'll do some squats and deadlifts. Mix it in with a workout, maybe some rowing in there, burpees, a little push-ups. You know, I'm getting the best of both worlds. I'm getting the hit and the resistance training. I do that for an hour. And then I would probably have the sauna already on and it would be about 175.
I don't like to go too high these days, like about 175, especially after a workout. And I go in the sauna and I would either, listen to some music or maybe a podcast that I'm interested in listening to, or maybe read a book or read a science study. And so I'd be in there for about 20 to 30 minutes, depending on how I'm feeling. And sometimes I'll put some water on the rocks to get steam.
I don't like to go too high these days, like about 175, especially after a workout. And I go in the sauna and I would either, listen to some music or maybe a podcast that I'm interested in listening to, or maybe read a book or read a science study. And so I'd be in there for about 20 to 30 minutes, depending on how I'm feeling. And sometimes I'll put some water on the rocks to get steam.
I like the steam as well. So I do that. Then I'll get out and then I'll have my bigger protein meal.
I like the steam as well. So I do that. Then I'll get out and then I'll have my bigger protein meal.
I like a little bit because especially if you're going a little bit harder and you're doing some high intensity, I find that it helps me not get so dizzy.
I like a little bit because especially if you're going a little bit harder and you're doing some high intensity, I find that it helps me not get so dizzy.
Yeah. So I mentioned like I'll have like a protein shake. Sometimes I'll also have like a half an apple. Like I'll cut half an apple for myself. Something, yeah. Something. Like I like a little bit of something. And then after that, I'll have my meal. Like I'll have a frittata, egg frittata that has broccoli in it. I'll have a big serving of it. And then I'll have some, I like my yerba mate tea.
Yeah. So I mentioned like I'll have like a protein shake. Sometimes I'll also have like a half an apple. Like I'll cut half an apple for myself. Something, yeah. Something. Like I like a little bit of something. And then after that, I'll have my meal. Like I'll have a frittata, egg frittata that has broccoli in it. I'll have a big serving of it. And then I'll have some, I like my yerba mate tea.
So I don't drink too much coffee. I certainly don't, I usually only have one cup in the morning. Sometimes I'll have two. But most of the time I go to the yerba mate hot tea, loose leaf tea. And I'll make that after I have my meal. And then I like to...
So I don't drink too much coffee. I certainly don't, I usually only have one cup in the morning. Sometimes I'll have two. But most of the time I go to the yerba mate hot tea, loose leaf tea. And I'll make that after I have my meal. And then I like to...
sit down and do some science read some science like what's the latest um i get into all that you know cognitive stimulation is very important right it's very important to keep the mind sharp and um cognitive stimulation is also very important for brain drive neurotrophic factor we're talking about exercise increasing it will cognitive stimulation does as well novelty learning something new all those things are important so having a podcast like the school of greatness where you're constantly you know learning new things it's very good for the brain
sit down and do some science read some science like what's the latest um i get into all that you know cognitive stimulation is very important right it's very important to keep the mind sharp and um cognitive stimulation is also very important for brain drive neurotrophic factor we're talking about exercise increasing it will cognitive stimulation does as well novelty learning something new all those things are important so having a podcast like the school of greatness where you're constantly you know learning new things it's very good for the brain
so so i like to do that while i'm drinking my yerba monte tea and then the afternoon um i will get hungry again and i will i will have two homemade turkey burgers another i'm really getting big on the protein but then i also have some kale and blueberries in a shake together and that also really kind of gives me a
so so i like to do that while i'm drinking my yerba monte tea and then the afternoon um i will get hungry again and i will i will have two homemade turkey burgers another i'm really getting big on the protein but then i also have some kale and blueberries in a shake together and that also really kind of gives me a
brain boost i don't know what it is i think it's the polyphenols and the blueberries but i'm not alone in that like other people sure talk about it where it's like instead of having the caffeine that mid-afternoon i get the blueberries and there's studies showing that it improves cognition and memory across the lifespan young young children adolescents older age boom so i do that and what's the next best thing besides blueberries that would give you that
brain boost i don't know what it is i think it's the polyphenols and the blueberries but i'm not alone in that like other people sure talk about it where it's like instead of having the caffeine that mid-afternoon i get the blueberries and there's studies showing that it improves cognition and memory across the lifespan young young children adolescents older age boom so i do that and what's the next best thing besides blueberries that would give you that
Cocovia has been shown that. So it's a type of cacao powder that has very, very similar polyphenols.
Cocovia has been shown that. So it's a type of cacao powder that has very, very similar polyphenols.
Yeah. That's the brand name I use. And because their powder has been shown in clinical studies to improve blood flow to the brain, to improve cognition and memory in older adults. And also blood pressure. It's been shown to improve blood pressure. In fact, I've gotten my mom and people in my family to use it and have improvements in their blood pressure as well.
Yeah. That's the brand name I use. And because their powder has been shown in clinical studies to improve blood flow to the brain, to improve cognition and memory in older adults. And also blood pressure. It's been shown to improve blood pressure. In fact, I've gotten my mom and people in my family to use it and have improvements in their blood pressure as well.
It's a cocoa powder that's unflavored. You can put it, I usually, I don't usually put it in my smoothie. You could. I usually put it in, I usually drink like a, especially in the wintertime, I do like a cocoa. So I'll put cocoa via with some water and then I'll mix in a little bit of like monk fruit or stevia and I'll just drink that.
It's a cocoa powder that's unflavored. You can put it, I usually, I don't usually put it in my smoothie. You could. I usually put it in, I usually drink like a, especially in the wintertime, I do like a cocoa. So I'll put cocoa via with some water and then I'll mix in a little bit of like monk fruit or stevia and I'll just drink that.
So.
So.
Yeah. You don't want to put milk or dairy in there because it blunts the polyphenol. It binds up the polyphenols and then you're not going to get the same effect. So if you're going to... Almond milk or no? Almond milk's fine. If you like creaminess, almond milk would work. But you don't want like dairy. Interesting.
Yeah. You don't want to put milk or dairy in there because it blunts the polyphenol. It binds up the polyphenols and then you're not going to get the same effect. So if you're going to... Almond milk or no? Almond milk's fine. If you like creaminess, almond milk would work. But you don't want like dairy. Interesting.
But so that... I forgive you.
But so that... I forgive you.
So you're telling me that... I'm telling you like my perfect day that I, you know, can do, right? So turkey burgers and then, you know... Then I would say on the ideal day, then I like to go out and do just a couple mile run. This is about, I would say, 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Usually I do it when my son's at soccer. It's like, what else am I going to do? Just jog around.
So you're telling me that... I'm telling you like my perfect day that I, you know, can do, right? So turkey burgers and then, you know... Then I would say on the ideal day, then I like to go out and do just a couple mile run. This is about, I would say, 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Usually I do it when my son's at soccer. It's like, what else am I going to do? Just jog around.
I jog around the trail. And this is like, I love it. I feel when I get that second exercise thing in, and it's not like a long, you know, it's 20 minutes or whatever. I'm doing like, okay. It's not like a long... And I'm not going hard.
I jog around the trail. And this is like, I love it. I feel when I get that second exercise thing in, and it's not like a long, you know, it's 20 minutes or whatever. I'm doing like, okay. It's not like a long... And I'm not going hard.
Yeah, it's like a zone two type of like, you know, have a breathy conversation. I'll do some intervals. I'll run a little faster. So I will kind of do a little bit of intervals in there sometimes. But I like to get that, like those are the best days when I get that second hit of exercise in. That's cool. About three o'clock. And then it's time to...
Yeah, it's like a zone two type of like, you know, have a breathy conversation. I'll do some intervals. I'll run a little faster. So I will kind of do a little bit of intervals in there sometimes. But I like to get that, like those are the best days when I get that second hit of exercise in. That's cool. About three o'clock. And then it's time to...
Let's see, did I do any supplements in the morning? No, I usually do my supplements. Sometimes I'll take an omega-3 in the morning as well. These days I've been only doing it at night. So then I get to dinner time and dinner I like to have some nice protein and then I like to have either roasted vegetables or a salad. So I like to get some more vegetables in there and salad.
Let's see, did I do any supplements in the morning? No, I usually do my supplements. Sometimes I'll take an omega-3 in the morning as well. These days I've been only doing it at night. So then I get to dinner time and dinner I like to have some nice protein and then I like to have either roasted vegetables or a salad. So I like to get some more vegetables in there and salad.
Also, sometimes I'll have, you know, an orange or an apple or something for dessert. And I know people are scared of fruit. I think fruit's great. Um, I just don't eat nonstop fruit. So I'll have that as well. And then I'll get my, this is when I get my supplements. So I do a lot of, I do a lot of vitamins. So I do about two grams of omega-3. Usually it's about two to one ratio EPA, DHA. And, um,
Also, sometimes I'll have, you know, an orange or an apple or something for dessert. And I know people are scared of fruit. I think fruit's great. Um, I just don't eat nonstop fruit. So I'll have that as well. And then I'll get my, this is when I get my supplements. So I do a lot of, I do a lot of vitamins. So I do about two grams of omega-3. Usually it's about two to one ratio EPA, DHA. And, um,
Then I do, let's see, so the omega-3, then I do vitamin D. So I take around, I total around 4,000 IUs of vitamin D a day. So I get like 2,000 in a vitamin D supplement plus 2,000 in my multivitamin. So I take a multivitamin as well. And then I take magnesium. And then I take another product called Magnesium, which is like a powder I put in my water that I take all my vitamins with.
Then I do, let's see, so the omega-3, then I do vitamin D. So I take around, I total around 4,000 IUs of vitamin D a day. So I get like 2,000 in a vitamin D supplement plus 2,000 in my multivitamin. So I take a multivitamin as well. And then I take magnesium. And then I take another product called Magnesium, which is like a powder I put in my water that I take all my vitamins with.
And it's got like a mixture of some other magnesium, organic magnesium salts as well. And then I take alpha lipoic acid. Are you wanting all the perfect supplement? Yeah. Alpha-lipidic acid, which has been shown to blunt the advanced glycation end products. So it's been trying to lower those in clinical studies. In fact, people with type 2 diabetes, it's been shown to improve their ages.
And it's got like a mixture of some other magnesium, organic magnesium salts as well. And then I take alpha lipoic acid. Are you wanting all the perfect supplement? Yeah. Alpha-lipidic acid, which has been shown to blunt the advanced glycation end products. So it's been trying to lower those in clinical studies. In fact, people with type 2 diabetes, it's been shown to improve their ages.
So I take that. And then I take benfotiamine, another vitamin that's been shown to help with advanced glycation end products. That's an important aspect that I'm focused on. And that's just a fat-soluble vitamin B1. Take that. And then I take lutein, zeaxanthin for my eyes. I take CoQ10. And then I take...I'm probably going to miss something. I take sulforaphane.
So I take that. And then I take benfotiamine, another vitamin that's been shown to help with advanced glycation end products. That's an important aspect that I'm focused on. And that's just a fat-soluble vitamin B1. Take that. And then I take lutein, zeaxanthin for my eyes. I take CoQ10. And then I take...I'm probably going to miss something. I take sulforaphane.
Sulforaphane helps detoxify a lot of terrible things that we're exposed to like plastic chemicals like BPA, but also air pollution factors as well. It activates a very powerful detoxification system in our body. So I take that.
Sulforaphane helps detoxify a lot of terrible things that we're exposed to like plastic chemicals like BPA, but also air pollution factors as well. It activates a very powerful detoxification system in our body. So I take that.
No, no. I mean, so look, I'll tell you, the omega-3 one's critical. So there's studies that have now shown that having a low omega-3 index is like smoking.
No, no. I mean, so look, I'll tell you, the omega-3 one's critical. So there's studies that have now shown that having a low omega-3 index is like smoking.
It's like smoking. So omega-3 levels as measured by the omega-3 index. So this is like measuring it in your red blood cells. It's a long-term marker of omega-3. It's a beautiful study that was done by Dr. Bill Harris. It was a Framingham cohort published a few years ago. And he looked at people's omega-3 levels, so high or low. High would be 8%, low would be 4%.
It's like smoking. So omega-3 levels as measured by the omega-3 index. So this is like measuring it in your red blood cells. It's a long-term marker of omega-3. It's a beautiful study that was done by Dr. Bill Harris. It was a Framingham cohort published a few years ago. And he looked at people's omega-3 levels, so high or low. High would be 8%, low would be 4%.
He's the pioneer of the omega-3 index. And Basically people that were non-smokers but had a low omega-3 index had the same life expectancy as smokers with a high omega-3 index. I mean, if you look at their life expectancy curve, they're overlaid. I mean, it's like, I wish I could pull up the figure. It's mind blowing.
He's the pioneer of the omega-3 index. And Basically people that were non-smokers but had a low omega-3 index had the same life expectancy as smokers with a high omega-3 index. I mean, if you look at their life expectancy curve, they're overlaid. I mean, it's like, I wish I could pull up the figure. It's mind blowing.
So no, yes. Seafood is the major. That's what's going to drive your omega-3 index. It needs to be EPA, DHA. That's from the marine sources. ALA, the plant source of omega-3, can be converted into those two other omega-3 fatty acids very, very inefficiently. And so really you need to get the marine source. For people that are vegetarians or vegans, microalgae is the source of microalgae oil.
So no, yes. Seafood is the major. That's what's going to drive your omega-3 index. It needs to be EPA, DHA. That's from the marine sources. ALA, the plant source of omega-3, can be converted into those two other omega-3 fatty acids very, very inefficiently. And so really you need to get the marine source. For people that are vegetarians or vegans, microalgae is the source of microalgae oil.
You have to take a lot of it. But studies have found that people with 4% omega-3 index, that's low. Actually, people in the US, the average omega-3 index is like 5%. If you take two grams of omega-3, so supplemental omega-3 per day for, was it like three months or so, then, or three or four months, then you can go from a 4% low omega-3 index to a 8% high omega-3 index.
You have to take a lot of it. But studies have found that people with 4% omega-3 index, that's low. Actually, people in the US, the average omega-3 index is like 5%. If you take two grams of omega-3, so supplemental omega-3 per day for, was it like three months or so, then, or three or four months, then you can go from a 4% low omega-3 index to a 8% high omega-3 index.
And people that have an 8% omega-3 index have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to the people with low. Come on, really? If you think about Japan, Japan, they have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to the U.S. on average.
And people that have an 8% omega-3 index have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to the people with low. Come on, really? If you think about Japan, Japan, they have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to the U.S. on average.
Their omega-3 index is 10%. Ours is 5%. So their average omega-3 index is 10%. Our average here in the U.S. is 5%.
Their omega-3 index is 10%. Ours is 5%. So their average omega-3 index is 10%. Our average here in the U.S. is 5%.
It's connected to fish intake, right.
It's connected to fish intake, right.
Yeah, I mean, it depends on the type of fish you're eating too, right? So the best types of fish to eat would be salmon, mackerel, sardines. These are high omega-3 but low mercury fish. Wow. And there's actually even studies showing that the omega-3 fatty acids protect against the mercury to some degree. You don't want to eat swordfish every day. Swordfish is very high.
Yeah, I mean, it depends on the type of fish you're eating too, right? So the best types of fish to eat would be salmon, mackerel, sardines. These are high omega-3 but low mercury fish. Wow. And there's actually even studies showing that the omega-3 fatty acids protect against the mercury to some degree. You don't want to eat swordfish every day. Swordfish is very high.
Like, that's a very real thing. If you can get, like, really high mercury levels, then it can be bad. But if you're eating, like, I eat salmon, like, three times a week. You know, I'm maybe four sometimes. I eat salmon a lot. But I also take my omega-3 supplements. So, it came back to that question is, do you think you could get away from all the supplements?
Like, that's a very real thing. If you can get, like, really high mercury levels, then it can be bad. But if you're eating, like, I eat salmon, like, three times a week. You know, I'm maybe four sometimes. I eat salmon a lot. But I also take my omega-3 supplements. So, it came back to that question is, do you think you could get away from all the supplements?
I mean, I do think that there's a few that are really important. Omega-3 and vitamin D, you know, you can make it from the sun. It gets converted into a steroid hormone, very, very important, very important. It's a steroid hormone regulating, you know, 5% of the human genome. So, without it, lots of stuff's going wrong.
I mean, I do think that there's a few that are really important. Omega-3 and vitamin D, you know, you can make it from the sun. It gets converted into a steroid hormone, very, very important, very important. It's a steroid hormone regulating, you know, 5% of the human genome. So, without it, lots of stuff's going wrong.
But, you know, there's a lot of things that regulate whether or not you can make vitamin D, right, where you live. How much melanin you have in your skin, that's a natural sunscreen, if you wear sunscreen or if you have a lot of protective clothing. As you get older, you're four times less efficient at making it. So lots of things, right? So that's where the supplement does help.
But, you know, there's a lot of things that regulate whether or not you can make vitamin D, right, where you live. How much melanin you have in your skin, that's a natural sunscreen, if you wear sunscreen or if you have a lot of protective clothing. As you get older, you're four times less efficient at making it. So lots of things, right? So that's where the supplement does help.
So I don't, you know, I would say, no, I would want those couple of supplements.
So I don't, you know, I would say, no, I would want those couple of supplements.
I don't have a list on my site. I do talk about it on my membership. I have a lot of Q&As I do once a month. I'm thinking about something like having some kind of maybe list because other people have lists of the supplements.
I don't have a list on my site. I do talk about it on my membership. I have a lot of Q&As I do once a month. I'm thinking about something like having some kind of maybe list because other people have lists of the supplements.
They're not necessarily right.
They're not necessarily right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
but my list changes a lot that's the thing it's like what you took two years ago is different than this year it is it changes a lot like sometimes i you need a rolling list you know you need an updateable list what do i like i'll like is this really like i used to take nad like you know precursors if you could only take three supplements a day and this you're only allowed three right now what would you take consistently i would take omega-3 vitamin d and sulforaphane
but my list changes a lot that's the thing it's like what you took two years ago is different than this year it is it changes a lot like sometimes i you need a rolling list you know you need an updateable list what do i like i'll like is this really like i used to take nad like you know precursors if you could only take three supplements a day and this you're only allowed three right now what would you take consistently i would take omega-3 vitamin d and sulforaphane
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I would definitely make sure I'm getting my magnesium for my food because I left that one out.
But I would definitely make sure I'm getting my magnesium for my food because I left that one out.
I left that one. Well, if I only had three.
I left that one. Well, if I only had three.
I would be getting my leafy greens and my nuts like almonds are very high in magnesium, right? Because I want to make sure I'm getting, you know, meeting the RCA.
I would be getting my leafy greens and my nuts like almonds are very high in magnesium, right? Because I want to make sure I'm getting, you know, meeting the RCA.
Okay, omega-3, vitamin D, sulforaphane, magnesium, and the multivitamin.
Okay, omega-3, vitamin D, sulforaphane, magnesium, and the multivitamin.
That's the top five.
That's the top five.
That's right. Great to be here.
That's right. Great to be here.
Well, so the first question is, how much sleep do people need? And it's a little bit of... There's a general answer because, and I say this because, believe it or not, there are something called chronotypes where people actually, there's genes that affect how much sleep they actually need. And most people, okay, most people need seven to nine hours of sleep a night.
Well, so the first question is, how much sleep do people need? And it's a little bit of... There's a general answer because, and I say this because, believe it or not, there are something called chronotypes where people actually, there's genes that affect how much sleep they actually need. And most people, okay, most people need seven to nine hours of sleep a night.
However, I will caveat that with that, you know, those outlier people that have certain genes that make them not require quite as much and they can actually function quite well with less than seven hours. That's the exception, not the rule.
However, I will caveat that with that, you know, those outlier people that have certain genes that make them not require quite as much and they can actually function quite well with less than seven hours. That's the exception, not the rule.
It's really interesting because it has to do with their circadian rhythm. So this 24-hour clock that our body is on, all of our cells are on, our metabolism, our neurotransmitter production, our hormone production. And when that circadian rhythm is disrupted, things kind of go haywire. And so their circadian rhythm, it's like a fundamental difference where it's just a little different.
It's really interesting because it has to do with their circadian rhythm. So this 24-hour clock that our body is on, all of our cells are on, our metabolism, our neurotransmitter production, our hormone production. And when that circadian rhythm is disrupted, things kind of go haywire. And so their circadian rhythm, it's like a fundamental difference where it's just a little different.
And so because of that, they can actually be healthier and healthy with less sleep. And I don't know so much about that exception, so I don't want to focus on that.
And so because of that, they can actually be healthier and healthy with less sleep. And I don't know so much about that exception, so I don't want to focus on that.
I don't know what percent. It's not a lot, but it does exist. And I just want to acknowledge its existence because people will hear this seven to nine hours, and then there's that whatever, 1% to 3% of people that will yell and scream about how they don't need that.
I don't know what percent. It's not a lot, but it does exist. And I just want to acknowledge its existence because people will hear this seven to nine hours, and then there's that whatever, 1% to 3% of people that will yell and scream about how they don't need that.
That's a good question.
That's a good question.
Well, if you think about sleep, I mean, It's definitely a time of rejuvenation, of repair. So all of our repair processes are happening when we're sleeping, whether that's repairing damage to our DNA to prevent us from getting cancer-causing mutations, so they're oncogenic mutations,
Well, if you think about sleep, I mean, It's definitely a time of rejuvenation, of repair. So all of our repair processes are happening when we're sleeping, whether that's repairing damage to our DNA to prevent us from getting cancer-causing mutations, so they're oncogenic mutations,
Whether we're repairing our brain, so we're cleaning out a lot of gunk that builds up in our brain throughout the day. These are things that are like little pieces of protein fragments and aggregates. And so when we sleep, it's like we clean that all out.
Whether we're repairing our brain, so we're cleaning out a lot of gunk that builds up in our brain throughout the day. These are things that are like little pieces of protein fragments and aggregates. And so when we sleep, it's like we clean that all out.
There's a process called the glymphatic system that gets activated and it literally squirts this lymphatic fluid throughout our brain kind of like a wash, like a cleansing. And it physically forces it out through the lymphatic system. And it's very important for preventing the buildup of protein aggregates like amyloid beta, which is involved in Alzheimer's disease.
There's a process called the glymphatic system that gets activated and it literally squirts this lymphatic fluid throughout our brain kind of like a wash, like a cleansing. And it physically forces it out through the lymphatic system. And it's very important for preventing the buildup of protein aggregates like amyloid beta, which is involved in Alzheimer's disease.
And it's why sleep is so inherently connected to neurodegenerative disease because it is a repair time, right? Lots of things are going on with the brain. but also your metabolism and blood pressure. Your blood pressure resets. Everything's resetting during sleep. Digestion shuts down so that you can do all this repair stuff. So if you think about your body as kind of like a phone.
And it's why sleep is so inherently connected to neurodegenerative disease because it is a repair time, right? Lots of things are going on with the brain. but also your metabolism and blood pressure. Your blood pressure resets. Everything's resetting during sleep. Digestion shuts down so that you can do all this repair stuff. So if you think about your body as kind of like a phone.
So your body is a phone, and if you don't recharge your phone at night, It dies. It dies. It's not going to run properly. It's going to eventually die and you won't be able to use it. So it's kind of like the same thing. You have to recharge your battery when you're sleeping and that's kind of what you do. And that includes everything from brain function to immune cell function.
So your body is a phone, and if you don't recharge your phone at night, It dies. It dies. It's not going to run properly. It's going to eventually die and you won't be able to use it. So it's kind of like the same thing. You have to recharge your battery when you're sleeping and that's kind of what you do. And that includes everything from brain function to immune cell function.
Your immune system is also replenished to metabolism. And this is something that I don't think a lot of people think of. Most people, when they think of being sleep deprived, they think of brain fog. I'm like, I'm not functioning properly. I'm not thinking like, you know, my sharpest. But I don't know that most people are thinking of type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome.
Your immune system is also replenished to metabolism. And this is something that I don't think a lot of people think of. Most people, when they think of being sleep deprived, they think of brain fog. I'm like, I'm not functioning properly. I'm not thinking like, you know, my sharpest. But I don't know that most people are thinking of type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome.
And this is something I know I certainly wasn't thinking about it until I became a new mother and was wearing a continuous glucose monitor. So that's something that you can attach to either your arm or I put it on my abdomen area and it continually measures your blood glucose levels. And of course, when you become a new parent, you're sleep deprived. You're not sleeping.
And this is something I know I certainly wasn't thinking about it until I became a new mother and was wearing a continuous glucose monitor. So that's something that you can attach to either your arm or I put it on my abdomen area and it continually measures your blood glucose levels. And of course, when you become a new parent, you're sleep deprived. You're not sleeping.
Yeah, especially a mother when you're waking up nursing your child three times a night. I mean, you're getting very fragmented sleep. And I was wearing a continuous glucose monitor and it was very eye-opening what was happening to my blood glucose regulation. I mean, it was completely shot.
Yeah, especially a mother when you're waking up nursing your child three times a night. I mean, you're getting very fragmented sleep. And I was wearing a continuous glucose monitor and it was very eye-opening what was happening to my blood glucose regulation. I mean, it was completely shot.
So my levels were looking like pre-diabetic. And this is like, I was still eating healthy, right? I was eating my healthy foods, my vegetables and my salmon and blueberries. Yeah, I wasn't as physically active as my usual because, you know, especially, you know, the first month after having a baby. But I'll get to some good news in a minute.
So my levels were looking like pre-diabetic. And this is like, I was still eating healthy, right? I was eating my healthy foods, my vegetables and my salmon and blueberries. Yeah, I wasn't as physically active as my usual because, you know, especially, you know, the first month after having a baby. But I'll get to some good news in a minute.
But that was, you know, to me it was just like it was so crazy to see like my fasting blood glucose levels so incredibly high without changing my diet, really. And, you know, I was still sort of physically active. I was going for walks, but I wasn't doing my usual like a run. I eventually started doing HIIT. So the point here is that actually even just...
But that was, you know, to me it was just like it was so crazy to see like my fasting blood glucose levels so incredibly high without changing my diet, really. And, you know, I was still sort of physically active. I was going for walks, but I wasn't doing my usual like a run. I eventually started doing HIIT. So the point here is that actually even just...
getting one to three hours less sleep per night for three nights in a row. I mean, think how common is it to get one hour less of sleep a night for three nights in a row? So common, so common. It happens to me all the time, all the time.
getting one to three hours less sleep per night for three nights in a row. I mean, think how common is it to get one hour less of sleep a night for three nights in a row? So common, so common. It happens to me all the time, all the time.
And there's been studies that have looked at, well, what does happen to normal, quote unquote, healthy people that haven't been diagnosed with any sort of metabolic disease? What happens is after three nights of getting one to three hours less sleep per night is that their body isn't disposing of glucose properly. So their blood glucose levels stay elevated.
And there's been studies that have looked at, well, what does happen to normal, quote unquote, healthy people that haven't been diagnosed with any sort of metabolic disease? What happens is after three nights of getting one to three hours less sleep per night is that their body isn't disposing of glucose properly. So their blood glucose levels stay elevated.
On top of that, insulin, they're not making enough insulin to lower the blood glucose levels. And so you get this double whammy, almost looking like insulin resistant or pre-diabetic if you were to just look at the hard numbers. And again, this is just from not getting enough sleep for three nights in a row.
On top of that, insulin, they're not making enough insulin to lower the blood glucose levels. And so you get this double whammy, almost looking like insulin resistant or pre-diabetic if you were to just look at the hard numbers. And again, this is just from not getting enough sleep for three nights in a row.
And it's not even like full-on sleep restriction where you're taking away four or five hours of their sleep. It's just one to three hours less. And so it really has profound effects on metabolism and this sort of accumulates. So there's a cumulative effect. It's called sleep debt, right? So when you're getting less and less sleep each night, it's like you build up this sleep debt.
And it's not even like full-on sleep restriction where you're taking away four or five hours of their sleep. It's just one to three hours less. And so it really has profound effects on metabolism and this sort of accumulates. So there's a cumulative effect. It's called sleep debt, right? So when you're getting less and less sleep each night, it's like you build up this sleep debt.
The good news is that, believe it or not, at least with respect to the metabolic effects and also the cognitive effects, is that exercise can help negate a lot of that. And that's what I also learned with my own personal experience.
The good news is that, believe it or not, at least with respect to the metabolic effects and also the cognitive effects, is that exercise can help negate a lot of that. And that's what I also learned with my own personal experience.
So according to research, yes. And according to my own anecdotal data, yes. And there's reasons why. So when you're doing high intensity interval training, so this is where you're going, you know, you're doing intervals that are hard. So you're going above what you normally would do if you're just going for a jog. You're going like 80, 85% of your max heart rate.
So according to research, yes. And according to my own anecdotal data, yes. And there's reasons why. So when you're doing high intensity interval training, so this is where you're going, you know, you're doing intervals that are hard. So you're going above what you normally would do if you're just going for a jog. You're going like 80, 85% of your max heart rate.
and you're doing it for a period of time that's an interval and then you kind of have a recovery period where you're going lighter, right? So you're doing a lot of vigorous intensity exercise where it's like during that interval, you can't talk because you're working out too hard. So that's the real test here. What happens when you're working out really hard like that is that you're pushing
and you're doing it for a period of time that's an interval and then you kind of have a recovery period where you're going lighter, right? So you're doing a lot of vigorous intensity exercise where it's like during that interval, you can't talk because you're working out too hard. So that's the real test here. What happens when you're working out really hard like that is that you're pushing
your energy system to utilize glucose only. And what happens is you utilize glucose only and you make a metabolite called lactate. And everyone thought lactate, this metabolite you're making when you're going hard is this waste product, byproduct, it's not useful. Turns out very, very wrong. Lactate itself is not only used by other tissues.
your energy system to utilize glucose only. And what happens is you utilize glucose only and you make a metabolite called lactate. And everyone thought lactate, this metabolite you're making when you're going hard is this waste product, byproduct, it's not useful. Turns out very, very wrong. Lactate itself is not only used by other tissues.
So when you're making lactate, your muscles are making lactate because they're using glucose. The reason they're using glucose is because your body can't get oxygen to your muscle quick enough to use oxygen as energy basically and make it through something using the mitochondria. So, basically, you're making this lactate and using glucose instead, right?
So when you're making lactate, your muscles are making lactate because they're using glucose. The reason they're using glucose is because your body can't get oxygen to your muscle quick enough to use oxygen as energy basically and make it through something using the mitochondria. So, basically, you're making this lactate and using glucose instead, right?
And the lactate then gets shuttled into the brain, it gets shuttled into the heart, into the liver. And it's not only used as a very energetically favorable source of energy, it's also what's called a signaling molecule. It's the way your muscle communicates with other parts of the body, including going back into the muscle.
And the lactate then gets shuttled into the brain, it gets shuttled into the heart, into the liver. And it's not only used as a very energetically favorable source of energy, it's also what's called a signaling molecule. It's the way your muscle communicates with other parts of the body, including going back into the muscle.
And so what lactate does is it signals to the cells, hey, make more of this or make less of this. And what it does to the muscle is the muscle's going, I'm consuming a lot of glucose here because that's the only energy I can use. I need to make a way to get more of it. And so lactate actually signals to your muscle to make transporters for glucose more of them come up.
And so what lactate does is it signals to the cells, hey, make more of this or make less of this. And what it does to the muscle is the muscle's going, I'm consuming a lot of glucose here because that's the only energy I can use. I need to make a way to get more of it. And so lactate actually signals to your muscle to make transporters for glucose more of them come up.
So transporters for glucose are kind of sitting below the surface of the muscle. They're not really letting glucose in all the time. But when lactate comes around, they wake up, they go to the surface of the muscle, and they just allow a lot more glucose to come in.
So transporters for glucose are kind of sitting below the surface of the muscle. They're not really letting glucose in all the time. But when lactate comes around, they wake up, they go to the surface of the muscle, and they just allow a lot more glucose to come in.
well, the glucose is from your food or from gluconeogenesis, the process of making glucose from other materials like glycerol, for example, or amino acids.
well, the glucose is from your food or from gluconeogenesis, the process of making glucose from other materials like glycerol, for example, or amino acids.
Usually it's from the food or glycogen, stored as glycogen. But the point is that those glucose transporters that come up to the muscle stay there for like 48 hours. And so your body becomes very, all the glucose that you're eating for the next two days is getting taken up into your muscle very effectively and efficiently.
Usually it's from the food or glycogen, stored as glycogen. But the point is that those glucose transporters that come up to the muscle stay there for like 48 hours. And so your body becomes very, all the glucose that you're eating for the next two days is getting taken up into your muscle very effectively and efficiently.
And so the net effect is, you know, this high intensity interval training is getting that glucose out of your bloodstream and bringing it to your muscle where you want it. And so if you go back to the sleep story, you know, and there's multiple studies showing this, that people that even do high intensity interval training before they're sleep-deprived, or they do it after they're sleep-deprived.
And so the net effect is, you know, this high intensity interval training is getting that glucose out of your bloodstream and bringing it to your muscle where you want it. And so if you go back to the sleep story, you know, and there's multiple studies showing this, that people that even do high intensity interval training before they're sleep-deprived, or they do it after they're sleep-deprived.
It doesn't matter. If you're doing it within a 48-hour window or so of getting less sleep, what's happening is your glucose regulation resets, right? Because you're causing that stress on your muscle to make more of those transporters, and so glucose gets taken in better. And then it also affects insulin signaling as well. So there's a lot of other ways that it's happening.
It doesn't matter. If you're doing it within a 48-hour window or so of getting less sleep, what's happening is your glucose regulation resets, right? Because you're causing that stress on your muscle to make more of those transporters, and so glucose gets taken in better. And then it also affects insulin signaling as well. So there's a lot of other ways that it's happening.
So those studies have been done and with respect to the metabolism, yes, doing it before for sure it's going to affect. Now, if you're talking about cognition and brain function, I would say unfortunately you're going to want to do it the next day after you've been sleep deprived before your meeting.
So those studies have been done and with respect to the metabolism, yes, doing it before for sure it's going to affect. Now, if you're talking about cognition and brain function, I would say unfortunately you're going to want to do it the next day after you've been sleep deprived before your meeting.
Right then.
Right then.
Yeah, right then.
Yeah, right then.
You're like, where am I going?
You're like, where am I going?
Do you have 10 minutes? Because that's what's been shown. 10 minutes. of high intensity interval training can improve blood flow to the brain. It improves memory. It improves cognition. And it only took 10 minutes to do it. So maybe not the 30 minutes, but 10 minutes.
Do you have 10 minutes? Because that's what's been shown. 10 minutes. of high intensity interval training can improve blood flow to the brain. It improves memory. It improves cognition. And it only took 10 minutes to do it. So maybe not the 30 minutes, but 10 minutes.
Not like a CrossFit style.
Not like a CrossFit style.
Not like a full on, like the hardest thing that you usually do when you're on your game, but like 10 minutes, right? Go on 10 minutes, get on a Peloton or a bike or whatever. And you do a 10 minute, whatever your program is. And it will, I do it all the time.
Not like a full on, like the hardest thing that you usually do when you're on your game, but like 10 minutes, right? Go on 10 minutes, get on a Peloton or a bike or whatever. And you do a 10 minute, whatever your program is. And it will, I do it all the time.
I do it all the time. Because you're sleep deprived all the time.
I do it all the time. Because you're sleep deprived all the time.
Well, like if I'm like going to Florida, I live in California and I have to give a talk at like eight in the morning, which is like five in the morning my time. And I'm already sleep deprived from the travel, right? I will absolutely get up and do a hit first thing in the morning before the talk, even though it's already pretty darn early for me. And you're tired. And I'm tired.
Well, like if I'm like going to Florida, I live in California and I have to give a talk at like eight in the morning, which is like five in the morning my time. And I'm already sleep deprived from the travel, right? I will absolutely get up and do a hit first thing in the morning before the talk, even though it's already pretty darn early for me. And you're tired. And I'm tired.
And that's the last thing I want to do. But like I'm like 10 minutes. Really? Like I'll sit and drink coffee for 10 minutes. What's going to be better? Right?
And that's the last thing I want to do. But like I'm like 10 minutes. Really? Like I'll sit and drink coffee for 10 minutes. What's going to be better? Right?
It probably depends on a lot of factors, other factors too. I will say this, you mentioned doing the HIIT like the day before you're gonna go, you know you're gonna be sleep deprived, right?
It probably depends on a lot of factors, other factors too. I will say this, you mentioned doing the HIIT like the day before you're gonna go, you know you're gonna be sleep deprived, right?
But you know what, in a way, so I'm talking about like, I talked about doing it right before whatever your meeting or your podcast or whatever it is, you have to be on point, right? Mostly because like that's when you really like, you do, it's like the peak.
But you know what, in a way, so I'm talking about like, I talked about doing it right before whatever your meeting or your podcast or whatever it is, you have to be on point, right? Mostly because like that's when you really like, you do, it's like the peak.
But I will say this, yes, if you do it before, you still get brain benefits because, again, coming back to lactate, so lactate, it all comes down to, in order to make lactate, you have to work hard. You have to be going 85% of your max heart rate and doing that 10, 20, 30 minutes, right? The more you do it, it's a dose-dependent effect. That lactate goes into the brain.
But I will say this, yes, if you do it before, you still get brain benefits because, again, coming back to lactate, so lactate, it all comes down to, in order to make lactate, you have to work hard. You have to be going 85% of your max heart rate and doing that 10, 20, 30 minutes, right? The more you do it, it's a dose-dependent effect. That lactate goes into the brain.
In fact, the brain is one of the biggest consumers of it. And it increases something in the brain called brain-derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF. And this is something that will help you. It's something that increases the growth of new neurons in the hippocampus. It increases the connections between neurons, right?
In fact, the brain is one of the biggest consumers of it. And it increases something in the brain called brain-derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF. And this is something that will help you. It's something that increases the growth of new neurons in the hippocampus. It increases the connections between neurons, right?
So you're actually going to help with memory, long-term memory, short-term memory as well. And it also improves something called neuroplasticity. So that is the ability of your brain to adapt to a changing environment, right? And that's very important. As we age, our brain becomes, quote unquote, less plastic, less adaptable. We're not able to change. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, right?
So you're actually going to help with memory, long-term memory, short-term memory as well. And it also improves something called neuroplasticity. So that is the ability of your brain to adapt to a changing environment, right? And that's very important. As we age, our brain becomes, quote unquote, less plastic, less adaptable. We're not able to change. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, right?
You've heard that. It's kind of like that. Like your brain is less adaptable. Well, neuroplasticity is something that you want to maintain it with age. And brain-derived neurotrophic factor regulates that. So because you're getting that brain-derived neurotrophic factor, and there have been a variety of studies that have really shown that you do increase it from a particularly vigorous exercise.
You've heard that. It's kind of like that. Like your brain is less adaptable. Well, neuroplasticity is something that you want to maintain it with age. And brain-derived neurotrophic factor regulates that. So because you're getting that brain-derived neurotrophic factor, and there have been a variety of studies that have really shown that you do increase it from a particularly vigorous exercise.
Again, the lactate's key. So going back to your question, I do want to sort of caveat what I originally said with, yes, it is going to improve brain function doing it before as well. But if you're wanting that like... immediate blood flow effect where you just, you feel it, like really doing it right before is- Is better. Yeah, kind of better.
Again, the lactate's key. So going back to your question, I do want to sort of caveat what I originally said with, yes, it is going to improve brain function doing it before as well. But if you're wanting that like... immediate blood flow effect where you just, you feel it, like really doing it right before is- Is better. Yeah, kind of better.
Right, yeah. See what I'm saying?
Right, yeah. See what I'm saying?
No, I don't, not for the brain. For the glucose stuff, it lasts.
No, I don't, not for the brain. For the glucose stuff, it lasts.
The body, but not the brain.
The body, but not the brain.
Not the brain. No. Yeah. It does. You do need at least like you're going to start to feel tired.
Not the brain. No. Yeah. It does. You do need at least like you're going to start to feel tired.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right. And you might actually need like a little nap or something. A little nap.
Right. And you might actually need like a little nap or something. A little nap.
So I talked to Dr. Sachin Panda about, he's talked about naps a lot and he's a circadian biologist and really an expert. And he really does think that naps are useful, particularly when you are sleep deprived. And so if you can nap, Great. I'm not really a napper. Like it's hard for me to nap. Like even when I'm tired, I'm not sure why, but it's just who I am.
So I talked to Dr. Sachin Panda about, he's talked about naps a lot and he's a circadian biologist and really an expert. And he really does think that naps are useful, particularly when you are sleep deprived. And so if you can nap, Great. I'm not really a napper. Like it's hard for me to nap. Like even when I'm tired, I'm not sure why, but it's just who I am.
And so I'm not saying I never do nap, but it is kind of, I think, especially if I'm like amped up on, I know I have to do something like, you know, then I'm like, it's hard to shut down.
And so I'm not saying I never do nap, but it is kind of, I think, especially if I'm like amped up on, I know I have to do something like, you know, then I'm like, it's hard to shut down.
So I always go to the exercise. Like I'll, I will just go to the gym, even though I'm tired. I go to the gym, not for long. Sometimes it's like 15 minutes. You know, and it does, it helps me. It really helps a lot.
So I always go to the exercise. Like I'll, I will just go to the gym, even though I'm tired. I go to the gym, not for long. Sometimes it's like 15 minutes. You know, and it does, it helps me. It really helps a lot.
Try to go to bed earlier, exactly. That's exactly what I, if you can't, like if you're like a conference thing where it's like multiple nights where you're staying up late, you go, you know, leave as early as you can. But again, that's where the exercise comes in. Like it really does. Like even just doing it in your hotel, like I have this go-to routine I'll do in my hotel room.
Try to go to bed earlier, exactly. That's exactly what I, if you can't, like if you're like a conference thing where it's like multiple nights where you're staying up late, you go, you know, leave as early as you can. But again, that's where the exercise comes in. Like it really does. Like even just doing it in your hotel, like I have this go-to routine I'll do in my hotel room.
It's kind of like a version of what CrossFitters call the Cindy workout. So I'll do 10 push-ups and then I do 10 V-ups, which are kind of like a version of a sit-up. And then I do like 15 bodyweight squats. And I do it over and over and over for like 10, 15 minutes.
It's kind of like a version of what CrossFitters call the Cindy workout. So I'll do 10 push-ups and then I do 10 V-ups, which are kind of like a version of a sit-up. And then I do like 15 bodyweight squats. And I do it over and over and over for like 10, 15 minutes.
No rest.
No rest.
I do it 10 minutes.
I do it 10 minutes.
Yeah, I go from one to the next to the next. I mean, I'll catch my breath for a minute, but the recovery is very short, maybe 20 seconds. So you're keeping your heart rate up the whole time. I keep my heart rate up the whole time, and usually, in many cases, I only do 10 minutes. If it's a hotel room workout where I just need to do something quick and get it, but it really works.
Yeah, I go from one to the next to the next. I mean, I'll catch my breath for a minute, but the recovery is very short, maybe 20 seconds. So you're keeping your heart rate up the whole time. I keep my heart rate up the whole time, and usually, in many cases, I only do 10 minutes. If it's a hotel room workout where I just need to do something quick and get it, but it really works.
The Cindy workout, yeah.
The Cindy workout, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
You can measure it, but like heart rate is a good way. Like if you're getting up to like 85%, so I wear my Apple Watch, right? And if you're getting up to like, you know, 85% of your max heart rate, 80, 85%, you're most likely going to be making lactate.
You can measure it, but like heart rate is a good way. Like if you're getting up to like 85%, so I wear my Apple Watch, right? And if you're getting up to like, you know, 85% of your max heart rate, 80, 85%, you're most likely going to be making lactate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
burns it burns does it burn like in the muscle group or more than the lungs i feel it in the muscle group when i'm doing when i'm doing things like body weight squats or biking or push-ups yeah i mean you feel it it feels heavy it feels like it hurts i mean even yeah you know doing body weight squats are great there's a study that came out i don't know it was like
burns it burns does it burn like in the muscle group or more than the lungs i feel it in the muscle group when i'm doing when i'm doing things like body weight squats or biking or push-ups yeah i mean you feel it it feels heavy it feels like it hurts i mean even yeah you know doing body weight squats are great there's a study that came out i don't know it was like
six months ago or something that showed doing 10 body weight squats every 45 minutes throughout like an eight-hour-ish workday was better for glucose regulation, so this is your blood sugar regulation, than a 30-minute walk. And I timed myself, it took me 27 seconds to do 10 bodyweight squats. So these are like exercise snacks, right? These are things that you do.
six months ago or something that showed doing 10 body weight squats every 45 minutes throughout like an eight-hour-ish workday was better for glucose regulation, so this is your blood sugar regulation, than a 30-minute walk. And I timed myself, it took me 27 seconds to do 10 bodyweight squats. So these are like exercise snacks, right? These are things that you do.
It's a great way to break up your sedentary time. So when you're sitting in your office for hours at a time, you're sedentary. And it's interesting because There's been a lot of research that have come out over the past few years showing that being sedentary, I always used to think of being sedentary as like, you're not physically active. And sometimes I still use that word, you're sedentary.
It's a great way to break up your sedentary time. So when you're sitting in your office for hours at a time, you're sedentary. And it's interesting because There's been a lot of research that have come out over the past few years showing that being sedentary, I always used to think of being sedentary as like, you're not physically active. And sometimes I still use that word, you're sedentary.
It's true. When you're sedentary, you're not physically active. And that's typically when you're doing a study and you're categorizing someone in a group, right? But you can be sedentary and still be physically active. So like I do a lot of sitting when I'm at my computer, when I'm researching something, reading studies, you know, I'm at my computer or I'm doing a podcast, I'm sitting.
It's true. When you're sedentary, you're not physically active. And that's typically when you're doing a study and you're categorizing someone in a group, right? But you can be sedentary and still be physically active. So like I do a lot of sitting when I'm at my computer, when I'm researching something, reading studies, you know, I'm at my computer or I'm doing a podcast, I'm sitting.
I sit for multiple hours, right? That is sedentary time and that has been shown to be an independent risk factor for certain cancers. Wow. Meaning independent of your physical activity even.
I sit for multiple hours, right? That is sedentary time and that has been shown to be an independent risk factor for certain cancers. Wow. Meaning independent of your physical activity even.
which is interesting because it makes you think, wow, exercise, now getting up and doing a two minute, three minute, you do some high knees or you do some burpees or some squats or something where you're getting that physical activity, And you just do it for a couple of minutes and you break up your workday. What's really interesting is there's been studies showing that.
which is interesting because it makes you think, wow, exercise, now getting up and doing a two minute, three minute, you do some high knees or you do some burpees or some squats or something where you're getting that physical activity, And you just do it for a couple of minutes and you break up your workday. What's really interesting is there's been studies showing that.
There's exercise snacks in a structured way, like I just said, right? Where you're like, okay, I set a timer. Every 45 minutes, I'm going to get up and do 10 bodyweight squats. Okay, that's a structured exercise snack. Well, some people have unstructured exercise snacks. So let's say they work on the fourth floor of an office building. And they walk the stairs. They sprint the stairs. Ooh.
There's exercise snacks in a structured way, like I just said, right? Where you're like, okay, I set a timer. Every 45 minutes, I'm going to get up and do 10 bodyweight squats. Okay, that's a structured exercise snack. Well, some people have unstructured exercise snacks. So let's say they work on the fourth floor of an office building. And they walk the stairs. They sprint the stairs. Ooh.
They sprint the stairs. They get their heart rate up, right? Let's go. Yeah. So there's been large studies. Interesting.
They sprint the stairs. They get their heart rate up, right? Let's go. Yeah. So there's been large studies. Interesting.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
No. It's still good to walk the stairs too, right? Okay, let me define sprint because if we're talking about a coach sprint, no. They're not doing what a coach sprint would be. What I mean is they're going fast, okay? They're running. Yeah, right, right. They're going faster than just walking. They're not sprinting in the coach sense of the word.
No. It's still good to walk the stairs too, right? Okay, let me define sprint because if we're talking about a coach sprint, no. They're not doing what a coach sprint would be. What I mean is they're going fast, okay? They're running. Yeah, right, right. They're going faster than just walking. They're not sprinting in the coach sense of the word.
Thank you for pointing that out because people might be like, Lana, you're crazy. They're not sprinting. No way. And you're right.
Thank you for pointing that out because people might be like, Lana, you're crazy. They're not sprinting. No way. And you're right.
As fast as they can up the stairs. And their heart rate's getting pretty high. And this has been measured because there's been large studies that have put accelerometers on people where they measure their heart rate. And they found that people that do anywhere from between two to six minutes of this sort of unstructured type of vigorous exercise, they have a 40% lower cancer-related mortality.
As fast as they can up the stairs. And their heart rate's getting pretty high. And this has been measured because there's been large studies that have put accelerometers on people where they measure their heart rate. And they found that people that do anywhere from between two to six minutes of this sort of unstructured type of vigorous exercise, they have a 40% lower cancer-related mortality.
Come on. 40% were lower all-cause mortality, so dying from all causes. 50% lower cardiovascular-related mortality. This is incredible because this was even in people that identified themselves as non-exercisers. In other words, they don't go to the gym. They don't take that extra time. They just do this. This is how they exercise. They incorporate this, you know, lifestyle.
Come on. 40% were lower all-cause mortality, so dying from all causes. 50% lower cardiovascular-related mortality. This is incredible because this was even in people that identified themselves as non-exercisers. In other words, they don't go to the gym. They don't take that extra time. They just do this. This is how they exercise. They incorporate this, you know, lifestyle.
It's called vigorous intermittent lifestyle activity, physical activity, VILPA. Wow.
It's called vigorous intermittent lifestyle activity, physical activity, VILPA. Wow.
Yeah. I think it's a good question and it comes down to, you know, like maybe it disrupts their flow too much. They're in the middle of something working and so you bring up a good point and that is you really do, you have to find something that you will do consistently. It's very, very important. And, you know, because Exercise is, it has to be part of your personal hygiene every day, right?
Yeah. I think it's a good question and it comes down to, you know, like maybe it disrupts their flow too much. They're in the middle of something working and so you bring up a good point and that is you really do, you have to find something that you will do consistently. It's very, very important. And, you know, because Exercise is, it has to be part of your personal hygiene every day, right?
Like brushing your teeth. It's not an add-on. You don't add it on. You do it. And I've sort of adopted this. I've recently really just focused a lot on resistance training, on doing a lot of high intensity interval training, also getting my aerobic exercise. And it's a priority for me.
Like brushing your teeth. It's not an add-on. You don't add it on. You do it. And I've sort of adopted this. I've recently really just focused a lot on resistance training, on doing a lot of high intensity interval training, also getting my aerobic exercise. And it's a priority for me.
Well, I've always been sort of an aerobic exercise, like a runner. So I've always had that aerobic exercise part of my life. I've always been physically active.
Well, I've always been sort of an aerobic exercise, like a runner. So I've always had that aerobic exercise part of my life. I've always been physically active.
But lifting. Lifting has been... I would say I started making it a priority... About a year and a half, maybe a year and a half ago, but maybe like a year ago. And then really about nine months ago, getting really serious about it. And that happened when I started getting a coach. That helped me personally.
But lifting. Lifting has been... I would say I started making it a priority... About a year and a half, maybe a year and a half ago, but maybe like a year ago. And then really about nine months ago, getting really serious about it. And that happened when I started getting a coach. That helped me personally.
Or like, you know, going to a gym, like a CrossFit gym, somewhere there's a community where you have this accountability as well.
Or like, you know, going to a gym, like a CrossFit gym, somewhere there's a community where you have this accountability as well.
So, I think what really motivated me to kind of prioritize it more was when I started to speak to some of these experts in muscle physiology, muscle protein synthesis, you know, in sarcopenia, which is age-related muscle loss. And knowing as I was getting into my 40s, you know, that like, it's getting real now, right?
So, I think what really motivated me to kind of prioritize it more was when I started to speak to some of these experts in muscle physiology, muscle protein synthesis, you know, in sarcopenia, which is age-related muscle loss. And knowing as I was getting into my 40s, you know, that like, it's getting real now, right?
Yeah, it seems like it's unfortunate, but there is, you know, I don't know that I was like, For me, it was kind of like, well, I do a lot of running and really covering that. Like, aerobic exercise is the most important because it's going to help with cardiovascular disease. Yeah, brain health and heart health and cancer. And, you know, and then part of me, it's like, oh, I don't want to bulk up.
Yeah, it seems like it's unfortunate, but there is, you know, I don't know that I was like, For me, it was kind of like, well, I do a lot of running and really covering that. Like, aerobic exercise is the most important because it's going to help with cardiovascular disease. Yeah, brain health and heart health and cancer. And, you know, and then part of me, it's like, oh, I don't want to bulk up.
There's always this, like, background fear of, like, getting too bulky. Yeah, my shoulders are going to get big. Yeah, big biceps. And so, but of course, like, well, you just don't lift as hard or heavy or whatever. Like, there's, you know, there's weight.
There's always this, like, background fear of, like, getting too bulky. Yeah, my shoulders are going to get big. Yeah, big biceps. And so, but of course, like, well, you just don't lift as hard or heavy or whatever. Like, there's, you know, there's weight.
Right. So, but getting into the science with the experts like Stu Phillips, Brad Schoenfeld, these are some of the leading experts in this field that really kind of brought it home for me, which is, you know, as you're aging, and I also just seen it, I've seen it with family members and I'm sure all of us have, where, you know, the family members that don't really focus on functional training or
Right. So, but getting into the science with the experts like Stu Phillips, Brad Schoenfeld, these are some of the leading experts in this field that really kind of brought it home for me, which is, you know, as you're aging, and I also just seen it, I've seen it with family members and I'm sure all of us have, where, you know, the family members that don't really focus on functional training or
or resistance training or, you know, maintaining building and maintaining muscle, you know, as they start to get older and they have a hospital event or a surgery. It's hard. And then, you know, they lose so much muscle mass the two to three weeks, four weeks, like month after the event. Shrink. Yes. And then it happens again, right? And they don't ever gain it back.
or resistance training or, you know, maintaining building and maintaining muscle, you know, as they start to get older and they have a hospital event or a surgery. It's hard. And then, you know, they lose so much muscle mass the two to three weeks, four weeks, like month after the event. Shrink. Yes. And then it happens again, right? And they don't ever gain it back.
You don't gain it back as well when you're older, right? And so... Just seeing that with family members and understanding the science behind it where it's like, wow, then you start to reach this what's called disability threshold where there's a point of no return and you really lose your physical independence. Your walking gait is so much slower. Everything is just harder, right? And so...
You don't gain it back as well when you're older, right? And so... Just seeing that with family members and understanding the science behind it where it's like, wow, then you start to reach this what's called disability threshold where there's a point of no return and you really lose your physical independence. Your walking gait is so much slower. Everything is just harder, right? And so...
I realized that I had to really focus on, like I had to catch up even, right? I had to catch up too. And so I got a coach. She's a great coach. I do a lot of CrossFit training, which I love.
I realized that I had to really focus on, like I had to catch up even, right? I had to catch up too. And so I got a coach. She's a great coach. I do a lot of CrossFit training, which I love.
I think CrossFit's a great, it's got a great mixture of resistance training, but also high intensity interval training, both things which I think are really important based on all the science that I've read and experts that I've interviewed in fields. And so I think that was the real thing that got me
I think CrossFit's a great, it's got a great mixture of resistance training, but also high intensity interval training, both things which I think are really important based on all the science that I've read and experts that I've interviewed in fields. And so I think that was the real thing that got me
Yeah, you know, to a, so I'll give you, this is going to take us to another area a little bit. You know, I have, my core background research was really aging research. Yes. And, you know, 20 years ago, I was in an aging lab. And I remember 20 years ago, you know, at the time, you know, even at that time, you know,
Yeah, you know, to a, so I'll give you, this is going to take us to another area a little bit. You know, I have, my core background research was really aging research. Yes. And, you know, 20 years ago, I was in an aging lab. And I remember 20 years ago, you know, at the time, you know, even at that time, you know,
amino acid restriction and protein restriction, like not consuming a lot of protein, was really starting to take off with that field in terms of improving longevity, right? And a lot of this was from animal studies. So you get these animal studies where you restrict dietary protein and they live longer.
amino acid restriction and protein restriction, like not consuming a lot of protein, was really starting to take off with that field in terms of improving longevity, right? And a lot of this was from animal studies. So you get these animal studies where you restrict dietary protein and they live longer.
Yeah, less protein.
Yeah, less protein.
Yes.
Yes.
Right, right.
Right, right.
And it only continued. It started 20 years ago. It was kind of like, you know, the start of it. And then it continued on throughout, you know, and it's still a thing in the aging. A lot of aging researchers think that. So there's a variety of lines of evidence that convinced, I think, I'd say these people that are in the longevity world that you should limit your protein intake to be healthier.
And it only continued. It started 20 years ago. It was kind of like, you know, the start of it. And then it continued on throughout, you know, and it's still a thing in the aging. A lot of aging researchers think that. So there's a variety of lines of evidence that convinced, I think, I'd say these people that are in the longevity world that you should limit your protein intake to be healthier.
One is a lot of animal studies where they've done these protein restrictions and their cardiovascular systems better. They don't get as much cancer. Their life expectancy is extended, right? And so there's a lot of reasons for these animal studies.
One is a lot of animal studies where they've done these protein restrictions and their cardiovascular systems better. They don't get as much cancer. Their life expectancy is extended, right? And so there's a lot of reasons for these animal studies.
I'll say, though, then I had Dr. Stu Phillips on, and he really brought up a lot of good points with that research, which is you have these mice in a sterile environment. They're not getting influenza. They're not getting any respiratory illness.
I'll say, though, then I had Dr. Stu Phillips on, and he really brought up a lot of good points with that research, which is you have these mice in a sterile environment. They're not getting influenza. They're not getting any respiratory illness.
They're not in the wild. They're not in the wild. They're basically just eating all day. They're kind of sedentary, and they're eating... But they're not like... A little box. Yeah. They're not being exposed to these... They're not like hitting these catabolic crises that humans do that we just talked about, right?
They're not in the wild. They're not in the wild. They're basically just eating all day. They're kind of sedentary, and they're eating... But they're not like... A little box. Yeah. They're not being exposed to these... They're not like hitting these catabolic crises that humans do that we just talked about, right?
Where you're in the hospital and then you're not moving around because you've been sick for, you know, a couple of weeks or you have a surgery and that keeps happening and you lose all this muscle mass and you just... You really start to go down, right? Yeah. And it's a really good point because it's absolutely true. On top of that, you know, it's also these mice are not very physically active.
Where you're in the hospital and then you're not moving around because you've been sick for, you know, a couple of weeks or you have a surgery and that keeps happening and you lose all this muscle mass and you just... You really start to go down, right? Yeah. And it's a really good point because it's absolutely true. On top of that, you know, it's also these mice are not very physically active.
And so if you're eating protein and you are physically active, the protein is going to your muscle and it's building muscle, right? It's not activating all these pathways in the body that are known to help cancer cells grow like the IGF-1 or mTOR pathway. mTOR is getting activated, but it's doing it in the muscle where you want it. And so, you know, I was a little bit indoctrinated in that field.
And so if you're eating protein and you are physically active, the protein is going to your muscle and it's building muscle, right? It's not activating all these pathways in the body that are known to help cancer cells grow like the IGF-1 or mTOR pathway. mTOR is getting activated, but it's doing it in the muscle where you want it. And so, you know, I was a little bit indoctrinated in that field.
Of like less protein.
Of like less protein.
Of like less protein, yeah.
Of like less protein, yeah.
Less muscle.
Less muscle.
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't necessarily less muscle, but it kind of like the less protein, like the, you know, it was not as important. And then there's a lot of observational data. So this is data in humans where you look at a correlation between what they eat and what an outcome is. So people that are eating like 20% of their calories are coming from protein, particularly animal-based protein.
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't necessarily less muscle, but it kind of like the less protein, like the, you know, it was not as important. And then there's a lot of observational data. So this is data in humans where you look at a correlation between what they eat and what an outcome is. So people that are eating like 20% of their calories are coming from protein, particularly animal-based protein.
You know, there was like one study that came out and it was like they have a, you know, they're fourfold higher cancer mortality. You know, there's 75% higher all-cause mortality compared to people eating a lower protein diet. But yet again, it's a correlation, not causation.
You know, there was like one study that came out and it was like they have a, you know, they're fourfold higher cancer mortality. You know, there's 75% higher all-cause mortality compared to people eating a lower protein diet. But yet again, it's a correlation, not causation.
And in fact, some of the same authors of that study went on to publish another one finding a similar thing, but then they looked at healthy lifestyle and unhealthy lifestyle factors. And what was found was that actually,
And in fact, some of the same authors of that study went on to publish another one finding a similar thing, but then they looked at healthy lifestyle and unhealthy lifestyle factors. And what was found was that actually,
people that were eating a lot of protein, animal-based protein, that had no unhealthy lifestyle factors, so they were physically active, they were not obese, they weren't smoking, consuming excess alcohol, they actually had the same life expectancy or the same all-cause mortality as people that were eating the lower protein or the plant-based protein.
people that were eating a lot of protein, animal-based protein, that had no unhealthy lifestyle factors, so they were physically active, they were not obese, they weren't smoking, consuming excess alcohol, they actually had the same life expectancy or the same all-cause mortality as people that were eating the lower protein or the plant-based protein.
So again, it comes down to, I think there's a lot of important factors involved in that protein story, why protein, restricting protein isn't necessarily what I think. I don't think it's the way to go.
So again, it comes down to, I think there's a lot of important factors involved in that protein story, why protein, restricting protein isn't necessarily what I think. I don't think it's the way to go.
So like maybe if you're a really obese person that's smoking and you're not going to be physically active, even then, I don't know that you want to go too far on protein restriction because protein is one of the major signals for building muscle, right? Protein synthesis in your muscle. The other one is physical activity and mechanical force. In fact, that's the major one.
So like maybe if you're a really obese person that's smoking and you're not going to be physically active, even then, I don't know that you want to go too far on protein restriction because protein is one of the major signals for building muscle, right? Protein synthesis in your muscle. The other one is physical activity and mechanical force. In fact, that's the major one.
That's the one we should all be focusing on.
That's the one we should all be focusing on.
It's hard to repair that damage that you are causing. You're tearing your muscles. Right. So you do need, you have higher protein requirements. And I also just now think that a lot of that aging research is, I think it's all in the lens of, okay, are we talking about a very obese person that needs to lose weight?
It's hard to repair that damage that you are causing. You're tearing your muscles. Right. So you do need, you have higher protein requirements. And I also just now think that a lot of that aging research is, I think it's all in the lens of, okay, are we talking about a very obese person that needs to lose weight?
Well, they can do with less protein and less calories and less fat and less everything, right? you know, let's lose the weight. But like, are we talking about physically active people that are healthy? You know, the protein isn't, I don't think that restricting the protein is going to make them healthier. In fact, athletes, elite athletes are consuming way more protein than the majority of us.
Well, they can do with less protein and less calories and less fat and less everything, right? you know, let's lose the weight. But like, are we talking about physically active people that are healthy? You know, the protein isn't, I don't think that restricting the protein is going to make them healthier. In fact, athletes, elite athletes are consuming way more protein than the majority of us.
And they actually have the longest life expectancy. these athletes are living like up to five years longer, elite athletes, like Olympians and stuff, Olympic athletes. They're living up to like five years longer than the average population, like the average person. Yeah, yeah, elite athletes, they have a much like up to like 40 to 50% lower cancer incidence. Like they're doing good.
And they actually have the longest life expectancy. these athletes are living like up to five years longer, elite athletes, like Olympians and stuff, Olympic athletes. They're living up to like five years longer than the average population, like the average person. Yeah, yeah, elite athletes, they have a much like up to like 40 to 50% lower cancer incidence. Like they're doing good.
And these are, again, at the elite level, you know, so.
And these are, again, at the elite level, you know, so.
know it's like if you've been training so hard since you're like whatever 12 or 15 and you're going for 20 years for that elite level but i guess you're really optimizing your body too for performance your body is very adaptable and so the thing is i'm sure there's the outliers that that is true but if you again look at studies that are published looking at generally like you know average population of like there's a french
know it's like if you've been training so hard since you're like whatever 12 or 15 and you're going for 20 years for that elite level but i guess you're really optimizing your body too for performance your body is very adaptable and so the thing is i'm sure there's the outliers that that is true but if you again look at studies that are published looking at generally like you know average population of like there's a french
Olympian athlete study. And then there's another Olympian athlete study that looks at multiple different Olympic athletes from around the world. And then just looking at some of the studies, looking at people that have an elite level of cardiorespiratory fitness, right? So that would be your ability to take in oxygen during maximal exercise is measured by VO2 max.
Olympian athlete study. And then there's another Olympian athlete study that looks at multiple different Olympic athletes from around the world. And then just looking at some of the studies, looking at people that have an elite level of cardiorespiratory fitness, right? So that would be your ability to take in oxygen during maximal exercise is measured by VO2 max.
There's studies showing that people that are in the elite level, so these are the elite athletes, like they're in like the top 2.3% of VO2 max, have an 80% reduction in all-cause mortality compared to people at the low end, like the people with low VO2 max, 80%. And what's even more mind-blowing is that First of all, the elite people, so people that are like, again, these are the athletes.
There's studies showing that people that are in the elite level, so these are the elite athletes, like they're in like the top 2.3% of VO2 max, have an 80% reduction in all-cause mortality compared to people at the low end, like the people with low VO2 max, 80%. And what's even more mind-blowing is that First of all, the elite people, so people that are like, again, these are the athletes.
If you compare them to people that are like me, like high, I have a high VO2 max for my age, I'm not elite. Like they still had a 20% lower all cause mortality than, so it seems like there's no limit, right? You keep going up. But the people with the low VO2 max, those people had a mortality that was comparable or worse to people that were smokers, had hypertension, diabetes. I know.
If you compare them to people that are like me, like high, I have a high VO2 max for my age, I'm not elite. Like they still had a 20% lower all cause mortality than, so it seems like there's no limit, right? You keep going up. But the people with the low VO2 max, those people had a mortality that was comparable or worse to people that were smokers, had hypertension, diabetes. I know.
It's because being sedentary, like not being physically active is a disease. It is a disease. I think it should be talked about as being a disease because it has the same mortality risk as people that are not, I mean, people that have diseases. that we identify as disease, right? Like hypertension.
It's because being sedentary, like not being physically active is a disease. It is a disease. I think it should be talked about as being a disease because it has the same mortality risk as people that are not, I mean, people that have diseases. that we identify as disease, right? Like hypertension.
Good question. Typically, I mean, what I'm talking about is the context of studies. And so typically what would be defined as a sedentary lifestyle is someone that has no leisure time physical activity, so they don't play tennis or pickleball or soccer or basketball or baseball or any type of leisure type of hockey, whatever, fill in the blank. Kickball. Kickball, handball. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Good question. Typically, I mean, what I'm talking about is the context of studies. And so typically what would be defined as a sedentary lifestyle is someone that has no leisure time physical activity, so they don't play tennis or pickleball or soccer or basketball or baseball or any type of leisure type of hockey, whatever, fill in the blank. Kickball. Kickball, handball. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Or they don't go to the gym, they don't run, so they don't identify themselves as taking time to engage in some type of physical exercise.
Or they don't go to the gym, they don't run, so they don't identify themselves as taking time to engage in some type of physical exercise.
That's it. And that would be considered sedentary.
That's it. And that would be considered sedentary.
Yeah, I mean, it depends on if, you know, maybe they are walking. If they walk their dog more, they're getting more steps, you know. I mean, I think that's better than nothing.
Yeah, I mean, it depends on if, you know, maybe they are walking. If they walk their dog more, they're getting more steps, you know. I mean, I think that's better than nothing.
But most of the time, people walking their dogs are not doing brisk walks. Yeah, they're stopping. Yeah, yeah. So probably I would say that, I wonder if scientists actually ask them, do you walk your dog? I don't know. That might be considered sedentary. I would call it sedentary. Right.
But most of the time, people walking their dogs are not doing brisk walks. Yeah, they're stopping. Yeah, yeah. So probably I would say that, I wonder if scientists actually ask them, do you walk your dog? I don't know. That might be considered sedentary. I would call it sedentary. Right.
Right. And I do think, I think that 10,000 steps should be replaced with like the 10 minute of like vigorous exercise, like more like a day. What do you need a day? 10 minutes of vigorous exercise. That's what I think.
Right. And I do think, I think that 10,000 steps should be replaced with like the 10 minute of like vigorous exercise, like more like a day. What do you need a day? 10 minutes of vigorous exercise. That's what I think.
No, not 10,000 steps.
No, not 10,000 steps.
Really?
Really?
Yes, because it comes down to like, you can walk slow, right? And it also takes, you know how long it takes?
Yes, because it comes down to like, you can walk slow, right? And it also takes, you know how long it takes?
It takes a long time. It takes like hours.
It takes a long time. It takes like hours.
Yeah, like an hour and a half or something. Like it's not, you know, and I just told you that, you know, 10 bodyweight squats every 45 minutes for an eight-hour, you know, work week is better at glucose regulation than 30-minute walk, right? So I do think that the 10,000 steps a day should be replaced with 10 minutes of vigorous exercise. I personally feel that way.
Yeah, like an hour and a half or something. Like it's not, you know, and I just told you that, you know, 10 bodyweight squats every 45 minutes for an eight-hour, you know, work week is better at glucose regulation than 30-minute walk, right? So I do think that the 10,000 steps a day should be replaced with 10 minutes of vigorous exercise. I personally feel that way.
But like the sedentary aspect, you know, we're talking about being sedentary. There was a classic study that was Dr. Ben Levine. He was on my podcast. He's really the leader in how the heart adapts to stress, whether it's exercise or space or whatever. He's like a juggernaut in the exercise physiology world.
But like the sedentary aspect, you know, we're talking about being sedentary. There was a classic study that was Dr. Ben Levine. He was on my podcast. He's really the leader in how the heart adapts to stress, whether it's exercise or space or whatever. He's like a juggernaut in the exercise physiology world.
His mentors had done a study when he was a young boy where they took these like 10 guys and measured their cardiorespiratory fitness and a variety of cardiovascular endpoints. And then they put them under bed rest for three weeks. So you're talking about what's being sedentary. At the extreme level of being sedentary, we're talking these guys were in bed for three weeks.
His mentors had done a study when he was a young boy where they took these like 10 guys and measured their cardiorespiratory fitness and a variety of cardiovascular endpoints. And then they put them under bed rest for three weeks. So you're talking about what's being sedentary. At the extreme level of being sedentary, we're talking these guys were in bed for three weeks.
They used a catheter to go to the bathroom. No way. That would drive me nuts. No, it totally would. But there are people that volunteered to do this.
They used a catheter to go to the bathroom. No way. That would drive me nuts. No, it totally would. But there are people that volunteered to do this.
I don't know. I agree with you.
I don't know. I agree with you.
Couldn't even get up to go to the bathroom. This is the extreme. They wanted to really understand what full sedentarism did. What happened? Oh, so their cardiorespiratory fitness was just, it went, it was just shot to the ground. I mean, it was terrible after three weeks. But here's the real kicker. So, Ben Levine was a young boy when this was done. This was done by his mentors, okay?
Couldn't even get up to go to the bathroom. This is the extreme. They wanted to really understand what full sedentarism did. What happened? Oh, so their cardiorespiratory fitness was just, it went, it was just shot to the ground. I mean, it was terrible after three weeks. But here's the real kicker. So, Ben Levine was a young boy when this was done. This was done by his mentors, okay?
You know, fast forward 30 years, okay? They found these same 10 guys. They found these same 10 guys, okay? Now, here's Ben. This is Ben's being involved in this study. They get these same guys, and they measure what 30 years, because they have all their data from before the bed rest, right? They measure what 30 years of aging does on their cardiovascular system.
You know, fast forward 30 years, okay? They found these same 10 guys. They found these same 10 guys, okay? Now, here's Ben. This is Ben's being involved in this study. They get these same guys, and they measure what 30 years, because they have all their data from before the bed rest, right? They measure what 30 years of aging does on their cardiovascular system.
And do you want to know what is insane? 30 years of aging was not worse than what three weeks of bed rest did.
And do you want to know what is insane? 30 years of aging was not worse than what three weeks of bed rest did.
It was not worse than three weeks of bed rest in terms of their cardiorespiratory fitness, which I personally think is one of the best markers for longevity that we can measure, VO2 max.
It was not worse than three weeks of bed rest in terms of their cardiorespiratory fitness, which I personally think is one of the best markers for longevity that we can measure, VO2 max.
How often do you test it? Good question. Okay. So embarrassingly, I do an estimator for it. So how do you measure VO2 max? Okay.
How often do you test it? Good question. Okay. So embarrassingly, I do an estimator for it. So how do you measure VO2 max? Okay.
You have to go into a lab. You have to really precisely measure it. You get a lab and you can Google whatever. But you're doing your Apple Watch. I do my Apple Watch, but also there's something called the 12-minute run test, which... is a good way to do it. It's actually a little better than the Apple Watch, I think.
You have to go into a lab. You have to really precisely measure it. You get a lab and you can Google whatever. But you're doing your Apple Watch. I do my Apple Watch, but also there's something called the 12-minute run test, which... is a good way to do it. It's actually a little better than the Apple Watch, I think.
So what you'd have to do is, because your Apple Watch is measuring, so I do a lot of running, but I do a lot of trail running. And trail running is like hills, okay? And you run slower when you're running on a hill, right? And so your true VO2 max, you want to have a flat surface where you're running. So you have to find like a track field and you want to run
So what you'd have to do is, because your Apple Watch is measuring, so I do a lot of running, but I do a lot of trail running. And trail running is like hills, okay? And you run slower when you're running on a hill, right? And so your true VO2 max, you want to have a flat surface where you're running. So you have to find like a track field and you want to run
as fast as you can maintain for that 12 minutes. So it has to be a sustainable 12 minute speed. You don't want to go too fast, but you don't want to go too slow. Right. So it has to be like a sustainable speed that you're really pushing hard, but you're able to sustain that for 12 minutes. And you do that 12 minute run test on a flat track.
as fast as you can maintain for that 12 minutes. So it has to be a sustainable 12 minute speed. You don't want to go too fast, but you don't want to go too slow. Right. So it has to be like a sustainable speed that you're really pushing hard, but you're able to sustain that for 12 minutes. And you do that 12 minute run test on a flat track.
So you can do it on a treadmill also, right? Yeah.
So you can do it on a treadmill also, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. You just have to have measure your distance. So measure your distance that you ran and the time. And then there's an equation you can plug it into. It's called the Cooper test. And that'll give you pretty much that's what your Apple Watch is doing. Yeah. Or your whatever device that's measuring VO2 max is doing something similar.
Yeah. Yeah. You just have to have measure your distance. So measure your distance that you ran and the time. And then there's an equation you can plug it into. It's called the Cooper test. And that'll give you pretty much that's what your Apple Watch is doing. Yeah. Or your whatever device that's measuring VO2 max is doing something similar.
But again, if you're just using like I use my Apple Watch and I look at it, I'm like, oh, but it's like I'm running all these hills. It's not really like true. Right. You need a flat. So it could be a flat treadmill or like a track.
But again, if you're just using like I use my Apple Watch and I look at it, I'm like, oh, but it's like I'm running all these hills. It's not really like true. Right. You need a flat. So it could be a flat treadmill or like a track.
That's all you need. You need to know the distance and your time. And then I'll tell you. And then there's an equation.
That's all you need. You need to know the distance and your time. And then I'll tell you. And then there's an equation.
Yeah. There's like an equation. I don't remember.
Yeah. There's like an equation. I don't remember.
No. So it's not. No, it's not. No. Then you can like compare what your VO2 max is based on your height and your gender and your weight and all that. Okay. Age and all that stuff, yeah. Right. You'll know where you rank. The category, yeah. You'll know where you rank, right? Oh, like I'm supposed to be here, but I'm... Top 10%. Right. Yeah, exactly.
No. So it's not. No, it's not. No. Then you can like compare what your VO2 max is based on your height and your gender and your weight and all that. Okay. Age and all that stuff, yeah. Right. You'll know where you rank. The category, yeah. You'll know where you rank, right? Oh, like I'm supposed to be here, but I'm... Top 10%. Right. Yeah, exactly.
And one of the best ways to improve VO2 max is high intensity interval training. So there's been those studies done where even people that are doing... So what do we hear about physical activity requirements? We hear two and a half hours of moderate intensity exercise a week, right? That would be... you know, the kind of exercise where you can, the talk test.
And one of the best ways to improve VO2 max is high intensity interval training. So there's been those studies done where even people that are doing... So what do we hear about physical activity requirements? We hear two and a half hours of moderate intensity exercise a week, right? That would be... you know, the kind of exercise where you can, the talk test.
So you can talk, you can have a, sort of have a conversation, but you're breathy. Yes. Right?
So you can talk, you can have a, sort of have a conversation, but you're breathy. Yes. Right?
Well, so this is where... Where you can't talk. Right. Well, so that... How many minutes a week? It all depends, right? So people that are doing two and a half hours of this moderate intensity, about 40% of those people still can't improve their VO2 max until they add in high intensity. Now, the question is, well, how much? How much do you want to improve? Right?
Well, so this is where... Where you can't talk. Right. Well, so that... How many minutes a week? It all depends, right? So people that are doing two and a half hours of this moderate intensity, about 40% of those people still can't improve their VO2 max until they add in high intensity. Now, the question is, well, how much? How much do you want to improve? Right?
I mean, obviously, you don't want to, like...
I mean, obviously, you don't want to, like...
burn out like like all your exercises hit like it's a bit much right but um you know if you're doing some of the best ways to do it would be like a longer interval so like a one minute interval of like going harder or there's the norwegian four by four this is one of the best ways to improve your vo2 max and that is where you go four minutes at an intensity that's pretty high that you can maintain and sustain for that entire four minutes usually it's about 85 max heart rate
burn out like like all your exercises hit like it's a bit much right but um you know if you're doing some of the best ways to do it would be like a longer interval so like a one minute interval of like going harder or there's the norwegian four by four this is one of the best ways to improve your vo2 max and that is where you go four minutes at an intensity that's pretty high that you can maintain and sustain for that entire four minutes usually it's about 85 max heart rate
So you're going pretty hard for the entire four minutes, as hard as you can maintain for the entire four minutes. And then you rest for three minutes. Rest as in low intensity, very low. You want your heart rate to come down. And then you do it, repeat four, so you do it four times. And that is one of the best ways to improve your cardiorespiratory fitness.
So you're going pretty hard for the entire four minutes, as hard as you can maintain for the entire four minutes. And then you rest for three minutes. Rest as in low intensity, very low. You want your heart rate to come down. And then you do it, repeat four, so you do it four times. And that is one of the best ways to improve your cardiorespiratory fitness.
And in fact, that same guy, researcher, Dr. Ben Levine, that I talked about with the Dallas, it's called the Dallas Bedrest Study. It's just phenomenal.
And in fact, that same guy, researcher, Dr. Ben Levine, that I talked about with the Dallas, it's called the Dallas Bedrest Study. It's just phenomenal.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Well, he, in my opinion, has done an even more interesting study where he took 50-year-olds, so he and his colleagues, his lab, They took 50-year-olds that were sedentary. So no, they weren't physically active. But they hadn't been identified with any other disease besides sedentarism, which I think is a disease. They hadn't been identified with type 2 diabetes or hypertension or anything else.
Well, he, in my opinion, has done an even more interesting study where he took 50-year-olds, so he and his colleagues, his lab, They took 50-year-olds that were sedentary. So no, they weren't physically active. But they hadn't been identified with any other disease besides sedentarism, which I think is a disease. They hadn't been identified with type 2 diabetes or hypertension or anything else.
So they were quote unquote what they would call healthy, right? But they didn't work out. But they didn't work out, so I wouldn't call them healthy, but this is what you... They were disease-less. They were disease-free. Yeah. No, but they were sedentary, so I wouldn't even say that, right?
So they were quote unquote what they would call healthy, right? But they didn't work out. But they didn't work out, so I wouldn't call them healthy, but this is what you... They were disease-less. They were disease-free. Yeah. No, but they were sedentary, so I wouldn't even say that, right?
So, but they took them, and they put them on a two-year, pretty intense exercise intervention protocol, okay?
So, but they took them, and they put them on a two-year, pretty intense exercise intervention protocol, okay?
Okay. So they went from not exercising to five to six hours of physical activity a week. A large portion of that they were doing what's called maximal sustainable intensity. So you're doing, it's a lot of vigorous exercise. They're like 80% max heart rate, 75, 80% max heart rate. And then they were doing the Norwegian four by four once a week. Wow.
Okay. So they went from not exercising to five to six hours of physical activity a week. A large portion of that they were doing what's called maximal sustainable intensity. So you're doing, it's a lot of vigorous exercise. They're like 80% max heart rate, 75, 80% max heart rate. And then they were doing the Norwegian four by four once a week. Wow.
and they didn't start them out with this right out the gate it was like the first six months was like progressive right and after the two years okay so as we age our hearts get smaller and stiffer okay smaller and stiffer as we age and that affects not only our exercise capacity but it affects our cardiovascular disease risk our heart attack risk hypertension risk right all of these things are connected so after those two years of you know five to six hours of physical pretty good physical exercise every single week
and they didn't start them out with this right out the gate it was like the first six months was like progressive right and after the two years okay so as we age our hearts get smaller and stiffer okay smaller and stiffer as we age and that affects not only our exercise capacity but it affects our cardiovascular disease risk our heart attack risk hypertension risk right all of these things are connected so after those two years of you know five to six hours of physical pretty good physical exercise every single week
Their hearts looked 20 years younger in terms of structure. Holy cow. Their structure. 20 years younger. So they were 50. And if you look just at the structure of the heart, their hearts look like 30-year-olds.
Their hearts looked 20 years younger in terms of structure. Holy cow. Their structure. 20 years younger. So they were 50. And if you look just at the structure of the heart, their hearts look like 30-year-olds.
Wow.
Wow.
They're doing this at 50, so it's never too late. But also just look what exercise can do. Wow. Right? And that's like for me, I like to understand. I get this like dopamine. I'm like, oh, yes, like this is what I can do. I'm on it, you know? And it's like that's – it helps me understand. adopt a type of protocol where I'm doing my exercise and I'm motivated and that was definitely part of it too.
They're doing this at 50, so it's never too late. But also just look what exercise can do. Wow. Right? And that's like for me, I like to understand. I get this like dopamine. I'm like, oh, yes, like this is what I can do. I'm on it, you know? And it's like that's – it helps me understand. adopt a type of protocol where I'm doing my exercise and I'm motivated and that was definitely part of it too.
Um, certainly I would say I'm stronger and my VO2 max has improved my running. I'm faster. And even the strength training has helped with that. And so there's been like, like I've definitely been like lifting a lot more and that's carried over to my cardiovascular performance as well. Why is that? I don't know. I think my legs are stronger. You know, I think it's a big part of it.
Um, certainly I would say I'm stronger and my VO2 max has improved my running. I'm faster. And even the strength training has helped with that. And so there's been like, like I've definitely been like lifting a lot more and that's carried over to my cardiovascular performance as well. Why is that? I don't know. I think my legs are stronger. You know, I think it's a big part of it.
I also am using more upper body too when I run. Like I feel like, especially on like hills or something, it helps me like go up the hill. Also, I'm going to be honest. Lifting is hard. Like, you know, I'm doing, it's hard mentally.
I also am using more upper body too when I run. Like I feel like, especially on like hills or something, it helps me like go up the hill. Also, I'm going to be honest. Lifting is hard. Like, you know, I'm doing, it's hard mentally.
And it's- And physically too. And physically too, but mentally, like I'm doing, I do a lot of barbell work. I'm doing front squats where I clean and- You know, it's scary. There's never a time when I'm not down there. And I always do progressive loading, right? So I actually have not injured myself when I work with a coach. But I'm scared. You have to focus.
And it's- And physically too. And physically too, but mentally, like I'm doing, I do a lot of barbell work. I'm doing front squats where I clean and- You know, it's scary. There's never a time when I'm not down there. And I always do progressive loading, right? So I actually have not injured myself when I work with a coach. But I'm scared. You have to focus.
You have to really pay attention.
You have to really pay attention.
And I feel like the mental toughness I've gotten from weight training has carried over to other areas. Like when I'm running and it's like going fast is hard. And so...
And I feel like the mental toughness I've gotten from weight training has carried over to other areas. Like when I'm running and it's like going fast is hard. And so...
it's it's you know or doing work like work things that i'm procrastinating it comes it becomes a little easier it really does carry over really does carry over and so i think about that too now when i'm like gosh i like i don't want to do this like but i know it's going to make me stronger and it's going to help me in other areas right how has it helped you as a parent
it's it's you know or doing work like work things that i'm procrastinating it comes it becomes a little easier it really does carry over really does carry over and so i think about that too now when i'm like gosh i like i don't want to do this like but i know it's going to make me stronger and it's going to help me in other areas right how has it helped you as a parent
Well, the same goes for that as well. I mean, for one, I feel, you know, happier because exercise affects mood and that also helps, like with sleepless nights and stuff, it helps. There's a lot of struggles as being a parent, right? You're caring for this other person. You want the best for them. You don't want to intervene too much. You want them to learn.
Well, the same goes for that as well. I mean, for one, I feel, you know, happier because exercise affects mood and that also helps, like with sleepless nights and stuff, it helps. There's a lot of struggles as being a parent, right? You're caring for this other person. You want the best for them. You don't want to intervene too much. You want them to learn.
I mean, there's like a million things that you're like the stress, right? The stress that ages us. I mean, I feel like I aged like 20 years after I became a mom. But it was like, oh, yeah. For sure. Not just the sleep, like not like the lack of sleep, but just the stress of like the worry, the worry of everything, you know, and stress is accelerates aging on like a molecular level.
I mean, there's like a million things that you're like the stress, right? The stress that ages us. I mean, I feel like I aged like 20 years after I became a mom. But it was like, oh, yeah. For sure. Not just the sleep, like not like the lack of sleep, but just the stress of like the worry, the worry of everything, you know, and stress is accelerates aging on like a molecular level.
Like, you know, there's lots of like, I could go into the details on it where it's just not good. But I do like the exercise is a big, it makes me mentally more happy, stronger. And yeah, I just think it's a big part of mental health.
Like, you know, there's lots of like, I could go into the details on it where it's just not good. But I do like the exercise is a big, it makes me mentally more happy, stronger. And yeah, I just think it's a big part of mental health.
for sure and and buffering encountering those negative effects that stress does have because there's lots of things that are out of your control and You have to like you have to find a way to buffer that and exercise is one of those ways that does buffer it for sure something I wanted to talk about what you mentioned earlier from lack of sleep to also high intensity exercise or resistance training and
for sure and and buffering encountering those negative effects that stress does have because there's lots of things that are out of your control and You have to like you have to find a way to buffer that and exercise is one of those ways that does buffer it for sure something I wanted to talk about what you mentioned earlier from lack of sleep to also high intensity exercise or resistance training and
Yeah, so it depends on, you know, what a person is referring to when, like an average person is saying glucose spike. Probably they're talking about postprandial, maybe like after a meal. And so when you are training, those spikes are not going to be as high. Because, again, it goes down to what I already talked about.
Yeah, so it depends on, you know, what a person is referring to when, like an average person is saying glucose spike. Probably they're talking about postprandial, maybe like after a meal. And so when you are training, those spikes are not going to be as high. Because, again, it goes down to what I already talked about.
As soon as you get glucose into your body, it's going...it's shuttled into your muscle because for 48 hours, those glucose transporters, they're called GLUT4 transporters, they are ready. They're like this...just like this big open like sink that's like taking it in, taking it in. And anyone can wear a continuous glucose monitor and see that, right? That happens.
As soon as you get glucose into your body, it's going...it's shuttled into your muscle because for 48 hours, those glucose transporters, they're called GLUT4 transporters, they are ready. They're like this...just like this big open like sink that's like taking it in, taking it in. And anyone can wear a continuous glucose monitor and see that, right? That happens.
I would say the bigger concern isn't necessarily the spikes if you clear it pretty quickly. The bigger concern is the long-term glucose where it's just constantly around because this goes back to the heart stiffening with age I talked about. So what happens is that when you have glucose, that's continually around, let's say you're sedentary, you just never exercise.
I would say the bigger concern isn't necessarily the spikes if you clear it pretty quickly. The bigger concern is the long-term glucose where it's just constantly around because this goes back to the heart stiffening with age I talked about. So what happens is that when you have glucose, that's continually around, let's say you're sedentary, you just never exercise.
So, you know, your muscles aren't that responsive to the glucose. It might be taken up into your adipose tissue instead. Of course, you're going to gain more fat that way. But also, it might just sit around longer. And so, what happens when glucose sits around in your vascular system is it reacts with...it forms something called advanced glycation end products or AGES.
So, you know, your muscles aren't that responsive to the glucose. It might be taken up into your adipose tissue instead. Of course, you're going to gain more fat that way. But also, it might just sit around longer. And so, what happens when glucose sits around in your vascular system is it reacts with...it forms something called advanced glycation end products or AGES.
And they do age us, so it's easy to remember. And these react with DNA, proteins, collagen in our body. And what they do, the chemical reaction is called the Maillard reaction. And it cross-links collagen and stuff together. When it's collagen, collagen is there forever, right? So collagen is lining our blood vessels, it's lining our myocardium, our pericardium, right?
And they do age us, so it's easy to remember. And these react with DNA, proteins, collagen in our body. And what they do, the chemical reaction is called the Maillard reaction. And it cross-links collagen and stuff together. When it's collagen, collagen is there forever, right? So collagen is lining our blood vessels, it's lining our myocardium, our pericardium, right?
And when that collagen gets cross-linked, it gets stiff. it gets stiff. When it gets cross-linked in our vascular system, it gets stiff. That causes hypertension. It causes what's called vascular compliance to go down. And so you're basically stiffening your heart through glucose.
And when that collagen gets cross-linked, it gets stiff. it gets stiff. When it gets cross-linked in our vascular system, it gets stiff. That causes hypertension. It causes what's called vascular compliance to go down. And so you're basically stiffening your heart through glucose.
Yeah, it's really, okay. Being sedentary is really what's facilitating it in people. So diabetics have the worst of the worst because they have a hard time regulating their blood sugar. So they have the most advanced glycation end products and the most problems with this issue, unfortunately.
Yeah, it's really, okay. Being sedentary is really what's facilitating it in people. So diabetics have the worst of the worst because they have a hard time regulating their blood sugar. So they have the most advanced glycation end products and the most problems with this issue, unfortunately.
They're not disposing of the glucose correctly, right?
They're not disposing of the glucose correctly, right?
Every day adds up. It's cumulative, right? Exactly. So when you have a person that, let's say, is very physically active and they go eat a Twinkie, they're gonna get a little bit of glucose spike. It's not gonna be like the sedentary person that eats the Twinkie, right? Because again, it's going right into their muscle. It's like this pipeline right to the muscle.
Every day adds up. It's cumulative, right? Exactly. So when you have a person that, let's say, is very physically active and they go eat a Twinkie, they're gonna get a little bit of glucose spike. It's not gonna be like the sedentary person that eats the Twinkie, right? Because again, it's going right into their muscle. It's like this pipeline right to the muscle.
So exercise is really helping a lot with that. And it's not like, if you're getting the spike, everyone's kind of spikes after a meal, but if you do that, in fact, there's been studies showing that doing those exercise snacks we were talking about, if you time them around meals, most of the studies have been done with people that have metabolic syndrome or type 2 diabetes.
So exercise is really helping a lot with that. And it's not like, if you're getting the spike, everyone's kind of spikes after a meal, but if you do that, in fact, there's been studies showing that doing those exercise snacks we were talking about, if you time them around meals, most of the studies have been done with people that have metabolic syndrome or type 2 diabetes.
And they get these people to do like 30 minutes of exercise like before a meal, anywhere between like an hour or so before a meal or after a meal. And it really dramatically improves their glucose disposal. So they're not getting that big spike.
And they get these people to do like 30 minutes of exercise like before a meal, anywhere between like an hour or so before a meal or after a meal. And it really dramatically improves their glucose disposal. So they're not getting that big spike.
Before and after.
Before and after.
You can do the exercise before or after, either, either or. It doesn't have to be both. But yeah, so timing it around a meal also really... And again, it's the vigorous exercise that's the best. You always hear about, oh, you should go for a walk after a meal.
You can do the exercise before or after, either, either or. It doesn't have to be both. But yeah, so timing it around a meal also really... And again, it's the vigorous exercise that's the best. You always hear about, oh, you should go for a walk after a meal.
Actually, the body weight squats or something that's really going to get like heart rate high, higher, it's the lactate you want to generate because that's what's causing the glucose transporters to basically become, you know, able to take the glucose in. So that's where the vigorous comes in.
Actually, the body weight squats or something that's really going to get like heart rate high, higher, it's the lactate you want to generate because that's what's causing the glucose transporters to basically become, you know, able to take the glucose in. So that's where the vigorous comes in.
You could do it 30 minutes after. Like I was in, you know, I was in Mallorca, Spain this last summer.
You could do it 30 minutes after. Like I was in, you know, I was in Mallorca, Spain this last summer.
And I don't know about you, but like anytime in Europe, like gelato is just like everywhere. And I've got like, yeah, I've got like a kid. It's like, yeah. I mean like, and how could I not? So, so I was absolutely on the street doing air squats. I was doing body weight squats.
And I don't know about you, but like anytime in Europe, like gelato is just like everywhere. And I've got like, yeah, I've got like a kid. It's like, yeah. I mean like, and how could I not? So, so I was absolutely on the street doing air squats. I was doing body weight squats.
After the gelato. But like, yes, I do stuff like that where it's like, we were also walking a lot, but I did the body. Like if it was like, I'm going to eat something that I never eat, that's just really high in sugar. I'm going to get that. I'm going to do something.
After the gelato. But like, yes, I do stuff like that where it's like, we were also walking a lot, but I did the body. Like if it was like, I'm going to eat something that I never eat, that's just really high in sugar. I'm going to get that. I'm going to do something.
Oh no. I mean, I mean, yeah, I was just doing like a couple of 20 air squats. Right. And then I was continuing walking. So I was still getting that. But you know, if, if, if, if it was someone that like, I wasn't like on a vacation, but like, yeah, if you want to stop and do like five minutes of like body weight squats, it's so it's hard. You, you do five. Yeah. It's nonstop.
Oh no. I mean, I mean, yeah, I was just doing like a couple of 20 air squats. Right. And then I was continuing walking. So I was still getting that. But you know, if, if, if, if it was someone that like, I wasn't like on a vacation, but like, yeah, if you want to stop and do like five minutes of like body weight squats, it's so it's hard. You, you do five. Yeah. It's nonstop.
Yeah. I mean, you rest like for like 20 seconds, like it's still, but it's hard.
Yeah. I mean, you rest like for like 20 seconds, like it's still, but it's hard.
It's going to help a little, but that's a situation where you want to make sure you have gotten your, your, your 20 or 30 minute exercise in. Or even if you did it earlier in the day, right? Because, but, but add the extra five minutes on top of that.
It's going to help a little, but that's a situation where you want to make sure you have gotten your, your, your 20 or 30 minute exercise in. Or even if you did it earlier in the day, right? Because, but, but add the extra five minutes on top of that.
It'll really help.
It'll really help.
it does meal timing like around the meal time a little extra helps but yeah that's the case where if you're already physically active and you're doing you do that actually i like to do mine in the morning um it's just how i like even though i perform better performance wise if i if i go for a run in the afternoon i'll be like faster um yeah i still like the the pump i get in the morning it's just good to get a complete also it does it feels good to get a complete tired or later in the day sometimes
it does meal timing like around the meal time a little extra helps but yeah that's the case where if you're already physically active and you're doing you do that actually i like to do mine in the morning um it's just how i like even though i perform better performance wise if i if i go for a run in the afternoon i'll be like faster um yeah i still like the the pump i get in the morning it's just good to get a complete also it does it feels good to get a complete tired or later in the day sometimes
It does. Yeah. And then also I was talking about mental, that mental toughness. Like when I lift in the morning and I, and I, and I get, I do those like hard squats and stuff. Other things are easier. I can do anything today. Let's go. But it's true. I mean, I mean, it's not anything. Yeah. It's still hard, but like it is a little easier. It really is. Like I for sure know it. It's easier. Yeah.
It does. Yeah. And then also I was talking about mental, that mental toughness. Like when I lift in the morning and I, and I, and I get, I do those like hard squats and stuff. Other things are easier. I can do anything today. Let's go. But it's true. I mean, I mean, it's not anything. Yeah. It's still hard, but like it is a little easier. It really is. Like I for sure know it. It's easier. Yeah.
Well, I did my first aging experiments 20 years ago. That was when I was just, you know, starting my scientific career.
Well, I did my first aging experiments 20 years ago. That was when I was just, you know, starting my scientific career.
Well, the answer to that, my real answer to that is kind of like more hardcore science. And I don't know if you want that or not. But it actually has to do with like 20 years ago, I thought aging was caused by... an accumulation of damage that we're just getting over time.
Well, the answer to that, my real answer to that is kind of like more hardcore science. And I don't know if you want that or not. But it actually has to do with like 20 years ago, I thought aging was caused by... an accumulation of damage that we're just getting over time.
So damage just in general to our DNA, to our proteins, to our mitochondria, you know, and you have these hallmarks of aging and you have to go and fix each hallmark, like a surgeon. And it's like, you have to fix your genomic instability and you have to fix your mitochondria and you have to fix everything, right? Now, I think aging is a program, password 20 years. I think aging is a program and it,
So damage just in general to our DNA, to our proteins, to our mitochondria, you know, and you have these hallmarks of aging and you have to go and fix each hallmark, like a surgeon. And it's like, you have to fix your genomic instability and you have to fix your mitochondria and you have to fix everything, right? Now, I think aging is a program, password 20 years. I think aging is a program and it,
It's something that is in our DNA at the level of our epigenome. So our epigenetics, these are things that are sort of kind of on top of our DNA that turn our genes on and activate them or turn them off and deactivate them. And it comes down to this concept of Dr. Steve Horvath's biological agent clocks. You've heard of these? The biological agent clocks.
It's something that is in our DNA at the level of our epigenome. So our epigenetics, these are things that are sort of kind of on top of our DNA that turn our genes on and activate them or turn them off and deactivate them. And it comes down to this concept of Dr. Steve Horvath's biological agent clocks. You've heard of these? The biological agent clocks.
Biological aging, right. How do you test that? There's a variety of tests for it.
Biological aging, right. How do you test that? There's a variety of tests for it.
Blood work, is that what it is?
Blood work, is that what it is?
There's a blood work test, and they test. They're called methyl groups. Essentially, they're just carbon with three hydrogens, and there's a pattern of them on our DNA. There's a pattern of them, and this pattern... I think is the aging program.
There's a blood work test, and they test. They're called methyl groups. Essentially, they're just carbon with three hydrogens, and there's a pattern of them on our DNA. There's a pattern of them, and this pattern... I think is the aging program.
I'm following the leading scientists, but now this is, this is now my belief 20 years later that there is a program of aging and it's these patterns of these methyl groups on our DNA that change with time that makes us age.
I'm following the leading scientists, but now this is, this is now my belief 20 years later that there is a program of aging and it's these patterns of these methyl groups on our DNA that change with time that makes us age.
And the reason I think that is because if you think about reproduction, so if you think about like a sperm and an egg, I mean, these aren't young cells and the, in the best case scenario, I mean, you got like a 20 year old, but like, yeah, You know, a lot of people are reproducing at 30 and 40, right? So these are older cells. I mean, they're still older, even at 20. They're older.
And the reason I think that is because if you think about reproduction, so if you think about like a sperm and an egg, I mean, these aren't young cells and the, in the best case scenario, I mean, you got like a 20 year old, but like, yeah, You know, a lot of people are reproducing at 30 and 40, right? So these are older cells. I mean, they're still older, even at 20. They're older.
They come together. They recombine. Their epigenome completely resets, and they make a young organism with no sign of aging.
They come together. They recombine. Their epigenome completely resets, and they make a young organism with no sign of aging.
Isn't that interesting?
Isn't that interesting?
No sign of aging.
No sign of aging.
How's that possible?
How's that possible?
The epigenome resets, completely resets. and there's no sign of aging.
The epigenome resets, completely resets. and there's no sign of aging.
It's very fascinating.
It's very fascinating.
That's the question. And so now, there have been over the last, I would say, oh gosh, Five to seven years. There's been... So, okay, let me take it even a step further back. Okay. Back in 2006, Shinya Yamanaka, a Japanese scientist, won the Nobel Prize for discovering four different genes that are very specific type of genes.
That's the question. And so now, there have been over the last, I would say, oh gosh, Five to seven years. There's been... So, okay, let me take it even a step further back. Okay. Back in 2006, Shinya Yamanaka, a Japanese scientist, won the Nobel Prize for discovering four different genes that are very specific type of genes.
They're called transcription factors because they can regulate a lot of different genes in our body.
They're called transcription factors because they can regulate a lot of different genes in our body.
he discovered that if he took four of these transcription factors and took any cell from the body, any old cell from an 80-year-old woman, skin cell, and he put these four transcription factor genes on them, on that old 80-year-old cell, he could revert it into an embryonic stem cell with no sign of aging, right? It's an embryonic stem cell that now can form any cell in the body.
he discovered that if he took four of these transcription factors and took any cell from the body, any old cell from an 80-year-old woman, skin cell, and he put these four transcription factor genes on them, on that old 80-year-old cell, he could revert it into an embryonic stem cell with no sign of aging, right? It's an embryonic stem cell that now can form any cell in the body.
This is a it's called induced pluripotent stem cell. So it resets the epigenome completely. The cell loses its identity. It doesn't know it's a skin cell anymore. It's an embryonic stem cell, but it can now form any type of cell. Right. And so
This is a it's called induced pluripotent stem cell. So it resets the epigenome completely. The cell loses its identity. It doesn't know it's a skin cell anymore. It's an embryonic stem cell, but it can now form any type of cell. Right. And so
That is also evidence that resetting the epigenome, at least to the very extreme case, right, all the way to the embryonic stem cell state, is a way of reprogramming the cell into a very youthful state. And there's some more lines of evidence. Cloning is another one.
That is also evidence that resetting the epigenome, at least to the very extreme case, right, all the way to the embryonic stem cell state, is a way of reprogramming the cell into a very youthful state. And there's some more lines of evidence. Cloning is another one.
So you take a nucleus from like an old cell, put it in a young cytoplasm of an egg, and the epigenome is reset and you have a young organism, right? So there's other lines of evidence of this.
So you take a nucleus from like an old cell, put it in a young cytoplasm of an egg, and the epigenome is reset and you have a young organism, right? So there's other lines of evidence of this.
But in the last five-ish years, there's been some research that have been done by a variety of scientists where they've taken those Yamanaka factors, they're called, the four transcription factors, and they've given them to mice, older mice. And they don't want to make all the mice cells become stem cells, right? Like, they don't want the cell to lose its identity.
But in the last five-ish years, there's been some research that have been done by a variety of scientists where they've taken those Yamanaka factors, they're called, the four transcription factors, and they've given them to mice, older mice. And they don't want to make all the mice cells become stem cells, right? Like, they don't want the cell to lose its identity.
They'll just be like a blob, right? Right. It's just, you know. almost like a big tumor cell or something. What they want is to reset that epigenome in a way to make it, to return it to a more youthful state. And so they've been able to sort of pulse it on. You just kind of like, you got to find the right timing, the right timing. And so they're making progress with this.
They'll just be like a blob, right? Right. It's just, you know. almost like a big tumor cell or something. What they want is to reset that epigenome in a way to make it, to return it to a more youthful state. And so they've been able to sort of pulse it on. You just kind of like, you got to find the right timing, the right timing. And so they're making progress with this.
And there's been some studies that have shown It's called partial cellular reprogramming, so they're not doing the full-on reprogram, but they're partially doing it. And it does rejuvenate a lot of aspects of aging in these rodents. There's a lot of hurdles to overcome. And I know that this was the answer you were looking for, but I'm super excited about it. It's very interesting. I think that...
And there's been some studies that have shown It's called partial cellular reprogramming, so they're not doing the full-on reprogram, but they're partially doing it. And it does rejuvenate a lot of aspects of aging in these rodents. There's a lot of hurdles to overcome. And I know that this was the answer you were looking for, but I'm super excited about it. It's very interesting. I think that...
we are very likely going to... I think there's this process of epigenetic reprogramming and Altos Labs, they're doing phenomenal research. They have a lot of the top scientists, Dr. Steve Horvath, Dr. Morgan Levine. I've had both of them on my podcast. They're both really good.
we are very likely going to... I think there's this process of epigenetic reprogramming and Altos Labs, they're doing phenomenal research. They have a lot of the top scientists, Dr. Steve Horvath, Dr. Morgan Levine. I've had both of them on my podcast. They're both really good.
I mean, Dr. Steve Horvath is the one who... He's the pioneer of the Horvath clocks, the epigenetic clocks that can identify this biological age, this molecular age that really identifies like how old you are versus your chronological age. But I do think that if they can figure out some of these hurdles that we might have a tune up where we go and get
I mean, Dr. Steve Horvath is the one who... He's the pioneer of the Horvath clocks, the epigenetic clocks that can identify this biological age, this molecular age that really identifies like how old you are versus your chronological age. But I do think that if they can figure out some of these hurdles that we might have a tune up where we go and get
Right. Exactly. Or more.
Right. Exactly. Or more.
I don't, you know, I don't, I could say a couple decades I could see for sure. Like, because things are really growing. Things are growing. And then gene engineering, you know, there's a lot of exponential growth in some of this synthetic biology world where they're, you know, doing all this gene engineering. And it's like, they're just really kind of, like, it's kind of,
I don't, you know, I don't, I could say a couple decades I could see for sure. Like, because things are really growing. Things are growing. And then gene engineering, you know, there's a lot of exponential growth in some of this synthetic biology world where they're, you know, doing all this gene engineering. And it's like, they're just really kind of, like, it's kind of,
I am very cautious when it comes to some of that stuff. So, but it's not that I don't think some of it works. Also, I just, you know, I'm a little bit of a scaredy cat, but I stick with the exercise. I'm just researching.
I am very cautious when it comes to some of that stuff. So, but it's not that I don't think some of it works. Also, I just, you know, I'm a little bit of a scaredy cat, but I stick with the exercise. I'm just researching.
Food, exercise, sleep.
Food, exercise, sleep.
Yeah, and so those are the big things. And to kind of maybe go back to your question, I would say that I used to think that limiting protein was probably like, oh, you're better off being more plant-based. Now, I think exercise is the king. I think exercise is the longevity drug that if you could pill it up, we'd all be taking it. We all should be taking it.
Yeah, and so those are the big things. And to kind of maybe go back to your question, I would say that I used to think that limiting protein was probably like, oh, you're better off being more plant-based. Now, I think exercise is the king. I think exercise is the longevity drug that if you could pill it up, we'd all be taking it. We all should be taking it.
And I think that the protein is important for fueling our muscles, for improving muscle mass, and for repair as well. And so that would be a bigger thing. And also, like, You know, intermittent fasting as well. I still try and I still think that it's important to do a type of it, time-restricted eating.
And I think that the protein is important for fueling our muscles, for improving muscle mass, and for repair as well. And so that would be a bigger thing. And also, like, You know, intermittent fasting as well. I still try and I still think that it's important to do a type of it, time-restricted eating.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know exactly what endpoints that he was talking about. But I think... The way I sort of think about it is you want to have a fasting period while you're sleeping because the repair processes that we were talking about to kind of go back to the start of this podcast is that we were talking about your DNA is repaired when you're sleeping.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know exactly what endpoints that he was talking about. But I think... The way I sort of think about it is you want to have a fasting period while you're sleeping because the repair processes that we were talking about to kind of go back to the start of this podcast is that we were talking about your DNA is repaired when you're sleeping.
You're cleaning out stuff inside of your cells, pieces of DNA from cells dividing that have just kind of... fragmented off or gunk, you know, just pieces of the cell, like there's all this gunk in our cells. And that process is cleared out.
You're cleaning out stuff inside of your cells, pieces of DNA from cells dividing that have just kind of... fragmented off or gunk, you know, just pieces of the cell, like there's all this gunk in our cells. And that process is cleared out.
When you sleep. However, if you just ate a meal before you hit the pillow, your digestion, all that stuff, that goes on for like five hours. There's a lot of stuff happening that shunts energy away from, the energy ships from repair, it's still in digestive mode. So repair mode needs to be fasted.
When you sleep. However, if you just ate a meal before you hit the pillow, your digestion, all that stuff, that goes on for like five hours. There's a lot of stuff happening that shunts energy away from, the energy ships from repair, it's still in digestive mode. So repair mode needs to be fasted.
I think typically it's like three hours are what a lot of the experts like Dr. Satch and Panda have sort of come to the conclusion. Because if you think about... If you finished eating three hours before you go to sleep, then for the first two hours, you're going to be finishing up the digestion process, right? And then the rest of the time, it's repair mode, right? Wow. It's repair mode.
I think typically it's like three hours are what a lot of the experts like Dr. Satch and Panda have sort of come to the conclusion. Because if you think about... If you finished eating three hours before you go to sleep, then for the first two hours, you're going to be finishing up the digestion process, right? And then the rest of the time, it's repair mode, right? Wow. It's repair mode.
So you want to give your body repair mode. And that's where I...
So you want to give your body repair mode. And that's where I...
is that no no like treats not even a little snack a couple of nuts i mean that's not going to be as big as a meal right like let's be real yeah so i'm some people really take it seriously like they don't want to take a vitamin or anything like like don't worry about you drink water or whatever i take my vitamins like close to bed you know so but but yeah you don't want a full-on meal yeah i mean now of course there's there's times that i've been so obsessive about it where i then i go to bed hungry and i'm cold because
is that no no like treats not even a little snack a couple of nuts i mean that's not going to be as big as a meal right like let's be real yeah so i'm some people really take it seriously like they don't want to take a vitamin or anything like like don't worry about you drink water or whatever i take my vitamins like close to bed you know so but but yeah you don't want a full-on meal yeah i mean now of course there's there's times that i've been so obsessive about it where i then i go to bed hungry and i'm cold because
My metabolism is down. You don't sleep well. And then I don't sleep well. Exactly. I wake up cold all night and I'm like, well, maybe I should have had a little something to eat because that.
My metabolism is down. You don't sleep well. And then I don't sleep well. Exactly. I wake up cold all night and I'm like, well, maybe I should have had a little something to eat because that.
It's a different kind of cold.
It's a different kind of cold.
It's your bones cold. Yeah. It's not like you can put the blanket on and feel. It's eternal cold. It's like, yeah, it's like that cold that you can't, you just can't fit.
It's your bones cold. Yeah. It's not like you can put the blanket on and feel. It's eternal cold. It's like, yeah, it's like that cold that you can't, you just can't fit.
So, yeah, I will say that I've decided I'm not going to be so obsessive about it. But like with the fasting thing too, what's interesting is I do think that a lot, you know, the problem that people could come across is where they're skipping so many meals that they're not getting enough protein. Right.
So, yeah, I will say that I've decided I'm not going to be so obsessive about it. But like with the fasting thing too, what's interesting is I do think that a lot, you know, the problem that people could come across is where they're skipping so many meals that they're not getting enough protein. Right.
And then are they working out to make sure they're at least getting that aspect of increasing, you know, getting that muscle protein synthesis? Because so if you are going to be doing some intermittent fasting and there's an argument to be made to kind of like do a little once in a while sort of just clean out, right, where you kind of stress your body a little bit and do that. But
And then are they working out to make sure they're at least getting that aspect of increasing, you know, getting that muscle protein synthesis? Because so if you are going to be doing some intermittent fasting and there's an argument to be made to kind of like do a little once in a while sort of just clean out, right, where you kind of stress your body a little bit and do that. But
I feel like, I mean, that's what exercise does. And in fact, exercise activates, vigorous exercise activates a lot of those same repair processes, like autophagy. That's one of the things that's happening when you're not eating. It also happens when you're sleeping and not eating. So again, it comes back to exercise forgives a lot of sins. Not all of them, but I mean, it really does.
I feel like, I mean, that's what exercise does. And in fact, exercise activates, vigorous exercise activates a lot of those same repair processes, like autophagy. That's one of the things that's happening when you're not eating. It also happens when you're sleeping and not eating. So again, it comes back to exercise forgives a lot of sins. Not all of them, but I mean, it really does.
So there's a lot, there's been some studies and this isn't, you know, I don't remember the details like in great detail, basically. There have been studies that have looked at like, if you eat a high carbohydrate meal for dinner versus a high fat meal versus high protein. And I don't remember all the details. All I remember is that one would improve deep sleep, but the other would improve REM.
So there's a lot, there's been some studies and this isn't, you know, I don't remember the details like in great detail, basically. There have been studies that have looked at like, if you eat a high carbohydrate meal for dinner versus a high fat meal versus high protein. And I don't remember all the details. All I remember is that one would improve deep sleep, but the other would improve REM.
And so it was with this kind of mixed bag where it's like, okay, well, if I am gonna do the higher carbohydrate meal, then at least I'm gonna get one of those other ones. I don't know, I forgot which one it is.
And so it was with this kind of mixed bag where it's like, okay, well, if I am gonna do the higher carbohydrate meal, then at least I'm gonna get one of those other ones. I don't know, I forgot which one it is.
Been a few years since I read those studies, but like if you're looking at like the macronutrient level I would say that that It seems as though different types of foods are affecting different stages of interesting It is interesting and it also is sorry to all the people out there that want to say it's the one or the other let's I'm just gonna tell you what the data says is that it's like I don't remember which one improved the deep sleep and which one because honestly, I don't know that you know, I yeah eating your meal right before bed also kind of
Been a few years since I read those studies, but like if you're looking at like the macronutrient level I would say that that It seems as though different types of foods are affecting different stages of interesting It is interesting and it also is sorry to all the people out there that want to say it's the one or the other let's I'm just gonna tell you what the data says is that it's like I don't remember which one improved the deep sleep and which one because honestly, I don't know that you know, I yeah eating your meal right before bed also kind of
disrupts your sleep and i think that might be even more important than like what you're eating um as well as getting that physical activity earlier in the day makes a difference and then the other thing that i think is even more important than the food is heat stress it's like doing a hot tub or a sauna that if you do that pretty close to bedtime like not necessarily right before bed but like maybe a couple of hours before bed it really seems to improve sleep really yeah and there's a lot of
disrupts your sleep and i think that might be even more important than like what you're eating um as well as getting that physical activity earlier in the day makes a difference and then the other thing that i think is even more important than the food is heat stress it's like doing a hot tub or a sauna that if you do that pretty close to bedtime like not necessarily right before bed but like maybe a couple of hours before bed it really seems to improve sleep really yeah and there's a lot of
potential reasons for that. But, you know, like growth hormone being one, you know, and also like it increases what are called somnogenic cytokines. So when you get in a hot tub or sauna, you're actually increasing some inflammatory markers that are also called somnogenic cytokines because they induce sleep. And so there's a reason. Now you want to be able to cool off.
potential reasons for that. But, you know, like growth hormone being one, you know, and also like it increases what are called somnogenic cytokines. So when you get in a hot tub or sauna, you're actually increasing some inflammatory markers that are also called somnogenic cytokines because they induce sleep. And so there's a reason. Now you want to be able to cool off.
You're talking about being cool. You don't want to like get in the sauna then get right into bed and you're sweating in bed and you can't go to sleep. But usually if you take like a shower, a cooler shower after that, you know, or some people like to get in their cold plunge, but you don't have a cold plunge and just do a shower. Cold shower, yeah.
You're talking about being cool. You don't want to like get in the sauna then get right into bed and you're sweating in bed and you can't go to sleep. But usually if you take like a shower, a cooler shower after that, you know, or some people like to get in their cold plunge, but you don't have a cold plunge and just do a shower. Cold shower, yeah.
Yeah, and then it really does, in fact, my husband is religious about it every night. He has to do, he does the hot tub. And then cold? And then cold, cold plunge. And then... He sleeps like a baby? Sleeps like a baby, like, because I don't have as much trouble falling asleep. Like, I get, he's more of a night person. Like, I can go to bed at 9, I'll be asleep at 9.30, no problem. Wow.
Yeah, and then it really does, in fact, my husband is religious about it every night. He has to do, he does the hot tub. And then cold? And then cold, cold plunge. And then... He sleeps like a baby? Sleeps like a baby, like, because I don't have as much trouble falling asleep. Like, I get, he's more of a night person. Like, I can go to bed at 9, I'll be asleep at 9.30, no problem. Wow.
No, it doesn't. No, I know a lot of people use the cold to kind of get that like norepinephrine burst where you wake up in the morning and you get that hit and you feel good. No, I'm sure while he's in it, but it's like maybe the combination with the heat does something. Yeah, sure. Because he doesn't just do the cold.
No, it doesn't. No, I know a lot of people use the cold to kind of get that like norepinephrine burst where you wake up in the morning and you get that hit and you feel good. No, I'm sure while he's in it, but it's like maybe the combination with the heat does something. Yeah, sure. Because he doesn't just do the cold.
Yeah, it's hot and cold. It's hot and cold.
Yeah, it's hot and cold. It's hot and cold.
All right, I'm tired. But he does the hot for a while and then gets into the cold. Probably he doesn't want to be sweating too much.
All right, I'm tired. But he does the hot for a while and then gets into the cold. Probably he doesn't want to be sweating too much.
Perfect for like being healthy.
Perfect for like being healthy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
oxygen chamber all the time like anything you can do okay so what i would do is wake up when i would naturally wake up yeah i typically naturally wake up around seven a.m and no alarm though just wake up i don't yeah i mean the only time i use an alarm is if i have to wake up before seven like i'm doing a sunrise hike or something or i'm in another time zone or something and i have to use it but i would wake up naturally
oxygen chamber all the time like anything you can do okay so what i would do is wake up when i would naturally wake up yeah i typically naturally wake up around seven a.m and no alarm though just wake up i don't yeah i mean the only time i use an alarm is if i have to wake up before seven like i'm doing a sunrise hike or something or i'm in another time zone or something and i have to use it but i would wake up naturally
which is usually around 7 a.m. I personally like to have coffee, so I have my coffee, and then sometimes I'll do a little bit of maybe a protein shake, or I'll have...
which is usually around 7 a.m. I personally like to have coffee, so I have my coffee, and then sometimes I'll do a little bit of maybe a protein shake, or I'll have...
some like egg or something like very light that's protein and then i'll go outside because i want that early morning light exposure to reset my circadian rhythm so that i again fall asleep at the right time and it's really that light exposure early in the morning is very important for that resetting of the circadian rhythm i go outside and i work out i work out outside
some like egg or something like very light that's protein and then i'll go outside because i want that early morning light exposure to reset my circadian rhythm so that i again fall asleep at the right time and it's really that light exposure early in the morning is very important for that resetting of the circadian rhythm i go outside and i work out i work out outside
Actually, almost all the time. Really? I work out outside. I do my lifting outside. So I would go out and I would do my sort of CrossFit training protocol, which I love. And so this is like an hour-long workout. And I do some resistance training depending on the day. Maybe I'll do some squats and deadlifts, mix it in with a workout, maybe some rowing in there, burpees, a little push-ups.
Actually, almost all the time. Really? I work out outside. I do my lifting outside. So I would go out and I would do my sort of CrossFit training protocol, which I love. And so this is like an hour-long workout. And I do some resistance training depending on the day. Maybe I'll do some squats and deadlifts, mix it in with a workout, maybe some rowing in there, burpees, a little push-ups.
You know, I'm getting the best of both worlds. resistance training I do that for an hour and then I would probably have the sauna already on and it would be about 175 I don't like to go too high these days like about 175 especially after a workout and I go in the sauna and I would either
You know, I'm getting the best of both worlds. resistance training I do that for an hour and then I would probably have the sauna already on and it would be about 175 I don't like to go too high these days like about 175 especially after a workout and I go in the sauna and I would either
listen to some music or maybe a podcast that I'm interested in listening to or maybe read a book or read a science study. And so I'd be in there for about 20 to 30 minutes depending on how I'm feeling. And sometimes I'll put some water on the rocks to get steam. I like the steam as well. So I do that. Then I'll get out and then I'll have my bigger protein meal.
listen to some music or maybe a podcast that I'm interested in listening to or maybe read a book or read a science study. And so I'd be in there for about 20 to 30 minutes depending on how I'm feeling. And sometimes I'll put some water on the rocks to get steam. I like the steam as well. So I do that. Then I'll get out and then I'll have my bigger protein meal.
I like a little bit because especially if you're going a little bit harder and you're doing some high intensity, I find that it helps me not get so dizzy.
I like a little bit because especially if you're going a little bit harder and you're doing some high intensity, I find that it helps me not get so dizzy.
Yeah. Gives you more energy too.
Yeah. Gives you more energy too.
Yeah. So I mentioned like I'll have like a protein shake. Sometimes I'll also have like a half an apple. Like I'll cut half an apple for myself.
Yeah. So I mentioned like I'll have like a protein shake. Sometimes I'll also have like a half an apple. Like I'll cut half an apple for myself.
Something, yeah.
Something, yeah.
Something. Like I like a little bit of something. And then after that I'll have my meal. Like I'll have a frittata. Egg frittata that has broccoli in it. I'll have a big serving of it. And then I'll have some, I like my Yerba Mate tea. So I don't drink too much coffee. I certainly don't, I usually only have one cup in the morning. Sometimes I'll have two.
Something. Like I like a little bit of something. And then after that I'll have my meal. Like I'll have a frittata. Egg frittata that has broccoli in it. I'll have a big serving of it. And then I'll have some, I like my Yerba Mate tea. So I don't drink too much coffee. I certainly don't, I usually only have one cup in the morning. Sometimes I'll have two.
But most of the time I go to the Yerba Mate hot tea, loose leaf tea. And I'll make that after I have my meal. And then I like to... sit down and do some science, read some science, like what's the latest. I get into all that. You know, cognitive stimulation is very important, right? It's very important to keep the mind sharp.
But most of the time I go to the Yerba Mate hot tea, loose leaf tea. And I'll make that after I have my meal. And then I like to... sit down and do some science, read some science, like what's the latest. I get into all that. You know, cognitive stimulation is very important, right? It's very important to keep the mind sharp.
And cognitive stimulation is also very important for brain-derived neurotrophic factor. We were talking about exercise increasing. Well, cognitive stimulation does as well. Novelty, learning something new, all those things are important. So having a podcast like the School of Greatness where you're constantly, you know, learning new things, it's very good for the brain. It's good for the brain.
And cognitive stimulation is also very important for brain-derived neurotrophic factor. We were talking about exercise increasing. Well, cognitive stimulation does as well. Novelty, learning something new, all those things are important. So having a podcast like the School of Greatness where you're constantly, you know, learning new things, it's very good for the brain. It's good for the brain.
So I like to do that while I'm drinking my yerba mate tea. And then the afternoon, I will get hungry again and I will have two homemade turkey burgers. I'm really getting big on the protein. But then I also have some kale and blueberries in a shake together. And that also really kind of gives me a...
So I like to do that while I'm drinking my yerba mate tea. And then the afternoon, I will get hungry again and I will have two homemade turkey burgers. I'm really getting big on the protein. But then I also have some kale and blueberries in a shake together. And that also really kind of gives me a...
brain boost i don't know what it is i think it's the polyphenols and the blueberries but i'm not alone in that like other people sure talk about it where it's like instead of having the caffeine that mid-afternoon i get the blueberries and there's studies showing that it improves cognition and memory across the lifespan young young children adolescents older age boom so i do that and what's the next best thing besides blueberries that will give you that
brain boost i don't know what it is i think it's the polyphenols and the blueberries but i'm not alone in that like other people sure talk about it where it's like instead of having the caffeine that mid-afternoon i get the blueberries and there's studies showing that it improves cognition and memory across the lifespan young young children adolescents older age boom so i do that and what's the next best thing besides blueberries that will give you that
Cocovia has been shown that. So it's a type of cacao powder that has very similar polyphenols.
Cocovia has been shown that. So it's a type of cacao powder that has very similar polyphenols.
Cocovia?
Cocovia?
Yeah. That's the brand name I use. And because their powder has been shown in clinical studies to improve blood flow to the brain, to improve cognition and memory in older adults. And also blood pressure. It's been shown to improve blood pressure. In fact, I've gotten my mom and people in my family to use it and have improvements in their blood pressure as well.
Yeah. That's the brand name I use. And because their powder has been shown in clinical studies to improve blood flow to the brain, to improve cognition and memory in older adults. And also blood pressure. It's been shown to improve blood pressure. In fact, I've gotten my mom and people in my family to use it and have improvements in their blood pressure as well.
Really? Yeah. So it's like a cocoa powder.
Really? Yeah. So it's like a cocoa powder.
It's a cocoa powder that's unflavored. You can put it, I usually, I don't usually put it in my smoothie. You could. I usually put it in, I usually drink like a, especially in the wintertime, I do like a cocoa. So I'll put cocoa via with some water and then I'll mix in a little bit of like monk fruit or stevia and I'll just drink that.
It's a cocoa powder that's unflavored. You can put it, I usually, I don't usually put it in my smoothie. You could. I usually put it in, I usually drink like a, especially in the wintertime, I do like a cocoa. So I'll put cocoa via with some water and then I'll mix in a little bit of like monk fruit or stevia and I'll just drink that.
So.
So.
yeah you don't want to put milk or dairy in there because it blunts the polyphenol it binds up the polyphenols and then you're not going to get the same effect so if you're going to if you like milk or no almond milk's fine if you like creaminess almond milk would work but you don't want like dairy interesting okay but so that would so that forgive you okay so you're telling me that i'm telling you like my perfect day that i you know can do right um so turkey burgers and then um you know
yeah you don't want to put milk or dairy in there because it blunts the polyphenol it binds up the polyphenols and then you're not going to get the same effect so if you're going to if you like milk or no almond milk's fine if you like creaminess almond milk would work but you don't want like dairy interesting okay but so that would so that forgive you okay so you're telling me that i'm telling you like my perfect day that i you know can do right um so turkey burgers and then um you know
Then I would say on the ideal day, then I like to go out and do just a couple mile run. This is about, I would say, 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Usually I do it when my son's at soccer. It's like, what else am I going to do? Just jog around? I jog around the trail. And this is like, I love it.
Then I would say on the ideal day, then I like to go out and do just a couple mile run. This is about, I would say, 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Usually I do it when my son's at soccer. It's like, what else am I going to do? Just jog around? I jog around the trail. And this is like, I love it.
I feel when I get that second exercise thing in, and it's not like a long, you know, it's 20 minutes or whatever. I'm doing like a 5K. It's not like a long... And I'm not going hard.
I feel when I get that second exercise thing in, and it's not like a long, you know, it's 20 minutes or whatever. I'm doing like a 5K. It's not like a long... And I'm not going hard.
Yeah, it's like a zone two type of, I can have a breathy conversation. I'll do some intervals. I'll run a little faster. So I will kind of do a little bit of intervals in there sometimes. But I like to get that, like those are the best days when I get that second hit of exercise in. That's cool. About three o'clock. And then it's time to,
Yeah, it's like a zone two type of, I can have a breathy conversation. I'll do some intervals. I'll run a little faster. So I will kind of do a little bit of intervals in there sometimes. But I like to get that, like those are the best days when I get that second hit of exercise in. That's cool. About three o'clock. And then it's time to,
see did i do any supplements in the morning no i usually do my supplements sometimes i'll take an omega-3 in the morning as well these days i've been only doing it at night so then i get to dinner time and dinner i like to have some nice protein and then i like to have either roasted vegetables or a salad so i'd like to get some more vegetables in there and salad also sometimes i'll have you know
see did i do any supplements in the morning no i usually do my supplements sometimes i'll take an omega-3 in the morning as well these days i've been only doing it at night so then i get to dinner time and dinner i like to have some nice protein and then i like to have either roasted vegetables or a salad so i'd like to get some more vegetables in there and salad also sometimes i'll have you know
an orange or an apple or something for dessert. And I know people are going to say, I think fruit's great. I just don't eat nonstop fruit. So I'll have that as well. And then I'll get my, this is when I get my supplements. So I do a lot of, I do a lot of vitamins. So I do about two grams of omega-3. Usually it's about two to one ratio EPA, DHA. And, um,
an orange or an apple or something for dessert. And I know people are going to say, I think fruit's great. I just don't eat nonstop fruit. So I'll have that as well. And then I'll get my, this is when I get my supplements. So I do a lot of, I do a lot of vitamins. So I do about two grams of omega-3. Usually it's about two to one ratio EPA, DHA. And, um,
Then I do, let's see, so the omega-3, then I do vitamin D. So I take around, I total around 4,000 IUs of vitamin D a day. So I get like 2,000 in a vitamin D supplement plus 2,000 in my multivitamin, so I take a multivitamin as well. And then I take magnesium. And then I take another product called Magnesium, which is like a powder I put in my water that I take all my vitamins with.
Then I do, let's see, so the omega-3, then I do vitamin D. So I take around, I total around 4,000 IUs of vitamin D a day. So I get like 2,000 in a vitamin D supplement plus 2,000 in my multivitamin, so I take a multivitamin as well. And then I take magnesium. And then I take another product called Magnesium, which is like a powder I put in my water that I take all my vitamins with.
And it's got like a mixture of some other magnesium, organic magnesium salts as well. And then I take alpha lipoic acid. Are you wanting all the perfect supplements? Yeah. Alpha lipoic acid, which has been shown to blunt the advanced glycation end products. So it's been trying to lower those in clinical studies. In fact, people with type 2 diabetes, it's been shown to improve their ages.
And it's got like a mixture of some other magnesium, organic magnesium salts as well. And then I take alpha lipoic acid. Are you wanting all the perfect supplements? Yeah. Alpha lipoic acid, which has been shown to blunt the advanced glycation end products. So it's been trying to lower those in clinical studies. In fact, people with type 2 diabetes, it's been shown to improve their ages.
So I take that. And then I take benfotiamine, another vitamin that's been shown to help with advanced glycation end products. That's an important aspect that I'm focused on. And that's just a fat-soluble vitamin B1. Take that. And then I take lutein, zeaxanthin for my eyes. I take CoQ10. And then I take... I'm probably going to miss something. I take sulforaphane.
So I take that. And then I take benfotiamine, another vitamin that's been shown to help with advanced glycation end products. That's an important aspect that I'm focused on. And that's just a fat-soluble vitamin B1. Take that. And then I take lutein, zeaxanthin for my eyes. I take CoQ10. And then I take... I'm probably going to miss something. I take sulforaphane.
Sulforaphane helps detoxify a lot of terrible things that we're exposed to, like plastic chemicals like BPA, but also air pollution factors as well. It activates a very powerful detoxification system in our body. So I take that. And then...
Sulforaphane helps detoxify a lot of terrible things that we're exposed to, like plastic chemicals like BPA, but also air pollution factors as well. It activates a very powerful detoxification system in our body. So I take that. And then...
No, no. I mean, so look, I'll tell you, the omega-3 one's critical. So there's studies that have now shown that having a low omega-3 index is like smoking.
No, no. I mean, so look, I'll tell you, the omega-3 one's critical. So there's studies that have now shown that having a low omega-3 index is like smoking.
Come on, really? Wow.
Come on, really? Wow.
It's like smoking. So omega-3 levels, as measured by the omega-3 index. So this is like measuring it in your red blood cells. It's a long-term marker of omega-3. It's a beautiful study that was done by Dr. Bill Harris. It was a Framingham cohort published a few years ago. And he looked at people's omega-3 levels, so high or low. High would be 8%, low would be 4%.
It's like smoking. So omega-3 levels, as measured by the omega-3 index. So this is like measuring it in your red blood cells. It's a long-term marker of omega-3. It's a beautiful study that was done by Dr. Bill Harris. It was a Framingham cohort published a few years ago. And he looked at people's omega-3 levels, so high or low. High would be 8%, low would be 4%.
He's the pioneer of the omega-3 index. And Basically, people that were non-smokers but had a low omega-3 index had the same life expectancy as smokers with a high omega-3 index. Wow. I mean, if you look at their life expectancy curve, they're overlaid. I mean, it's like, I wish I could pull up the figure. It's mind-blowing.
He's the pioneer of the omega-3 index. And Basically, people that were non-smokers but had a low omega-3 index had the same life expectancy as smokers with a high omega-3 index. Wow. I mean, if you look at their life expectancy curve, they're overlaid. I mean, it's like, I wish I could pull up the figure. It's mind-blowing.
So, no. Yes. Seafood is the major. That's what's going to drive your omega-3 index. It needs to be EPA, DHA. That's from the marine sources. ALA, the plant source of omega-3, can be converted into those two other omega-3 fatty acids very, very inefficiently. And so really you need to get the marine source. For people that are vegetarians or vegans, microalgae is the source of microalgae oil.
So, no. Yes. Seafood is the major. That's what's going to drive your omega-3 index. It needs to be EPA, DHA. That's from the marine sources. ALA, the plant source of omega-3, can be converted into those two other omega-3 fatty acids very, very inefficiently. And so really you need to get the marine source. For people that are vegetarians or vegans, microalgae is the source of microalgae oil.
You have to take a lot of it. But studies have found that people with 4% omega-3 index, that's low. Actually, people in the U.S., the average omega-3 index is like 5%. If you take two grams of omega-3, so supplemental omega-3 per day for, was it like three months or so, then, or three or four months, then you can go from a 4% low omega-3 index to a 8% high omega-3 index.
You have to take a lot of it. But studies have found that people with 4% omega-3 index, that's low. Actually, people in the U.S., the average omega-3 index is like 5%. If you take two grams of omega-3, so supplemental omega-3 per day for, was it like three months or so, then, or three or four months, then you can go from a 4% low omega-3 index to a 8% high omega-3 index.
And people that have an 8% omega-3 index have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to the people with low. Come on, really? If you think about Japan, Japan, they have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to the U.S. on average.
And people that have an 8% omega-3 index have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to the people with low. Come on, really? If you think about Japan, Japan, they have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to the U.S. on average.
Their omega-3 index is 10%. Ours is 5%. So their average omega-3 index is 10%. Our average here in the U.S. is 5%.
Their omega-3 index is 10%. Ours is 5%. So their average omega-3 index is 10%. Our average here in the U.S. is 5%.
It's connected to fish intake, right. Wow.
It's connected to fish intake, right. Wow.
Yeah, I mean, it depends on the type of fish you're eating too, right? So the best types of fish to eat would be salmon, mackerel, sardines. These are high omega-3 but low mercury fish. Wow. And there's actually even studies showing that the omega-3 fatty acids protect against the mercury to some degree. You don't want to eat swordfish already. Swordfish is very high. That's a very real thing.
Yeah, I mean, it depends on the type of fish you're eating too, right? So the best types of fish to eat would be salmon, mackerel, sardines. These are high omega-3 but low mercury fish. Wow. And there's actually even studies showing that the omega-3 fatty acids protect against the mercury to some degree. You don't want to eat swordfish already. Swordfish is very high. That's a very real thing.
If you can get really high mercury levels, then it can be bad. But if you're eating, like I eat salmon like three times a week. You know, I'm maybe four sometimes. I eat salmon a lot. But I also take my omega-3 supplements. So it came back to that question is, do you think you can get away from all the supplements? I mean, I do think that there's a few that are really important.
If you can get really high mercury levels, then it can be bad. But if you're eating, like I eat salmon like three times a week. You know, I'm maybe four sometimes. I eat salmon a lot. But I also take my omega-3 supplements. So it came back to that question is, do you think you can get away from all the supplements? I mean, I do think that there's a few that are really important.
Omega-3 and vitamin D, you know, you can make it from the sun. It gets converted into a steroid hormone. Very, very important. Very important. It's a steroid hormone regulating, you know, 5% of the human genome. So without it, lots of stuff's going wrong. But, you know, there's a lot of things that regulate whether or not you can make vitamin D, right, where you live.
Omega-3 and vitamin D, you know, you can make it from the sun. It gets converted into a steroid hormone. Very, very important. Very important. It's a steroid hormone regulating, you know, 5% of the human genome. So without it, lots of stuff's going wrong. But, you know, there's a lot of things that regulate whether or not you can make vitamin D, right, where you live.
How much melanin you have in your skin, that's a natural sunscreen. If you wear sunscreen or if you have a lot of protective clothing. As you get older, you're four times less efficient at making it. So lots of things, right? So that's where the supplement does help. So I don't, you know, I would say, no, I would want those couple of supplements.
How much melanin you have in your skin, that's a natural sunscreen. If you wear sunscreen or if you have a lot of protective clothing. As you get older, you're four times less efficient at making it. So lots of things, right? So that's where the supplement does help. So I don't, you know, I would say, no, I would want those couple of supplements.
I don't have a list on my site. I do talk about it on my membership. I have a lot of Q&As I do once a month. I'm thinking about something like having some kind of maybe list because other people have lists of the stuff I'm missing. Everyone's got a list, right? I'm not necessarily right.
I don't have a list on my site. I do talk about it on my membership. I have a lot of Q&As I do once a month. I'm thinking about something like having some kind of maybe list because other people have lists of the stuff I'm missing. Everyone's got a list, right? I'm not necessarily right.
Yeah. But my list changes a lot.
Yeah. But my list changes a lot.
It is. It changes a lot. Like sometimes I... You need a rolling list.
It is. It changes a lot. Like sometimes I... You need a rolling list.
What do I... Like, is this really... Like, I used to take NAD, like, you know, precursors.
What do I... Like, is this really... Like, I used to take NAD, like, you know, precursors.
I would take omega-3, vitamin D, and sulforaphane.
I would take omega-3, vitamin D, and sulforaphane.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I would definitely make sure I'm getting my magnesium for my food because I left that one out.
But I would definitely make sure I'm getting my magnesium for my food because I left that one out.
I left that one. Well, if I only had three.
I left that one. Well, if I only had three.
I would be getting my leafy greens and my nuts like almonds are very high in magnesium, right? Because I want to make sure I'm getting, you know, meeting the RCA.
I would be getting my leafy greens and my nuts like almonds are very high in magnesium, right? Because I want to make sure I'm getting, you know, meeting the RCA.
Okay, omega-3, vitamin D, sulforaphane, magnesium, and the multivitamin.
Okay, omega-3, vitamin D, sulforaphane, magnesium, and the multivitamin.
That's the top five. is sulforaphane yeah sulforaphane is it's a compound that is made from a precursor that is found in certain types of cruciferous vegetables so these are broccoli cauliflower brussels sprouts cabbage those types of vegetables um it's really the precursor is called glucoraphanin and when you
That's the top five. is sulforaphane yeah sulforaphane is it's a compound that is made from a precursor that is found in certain types of cruciferous vegetables so these are broccoli cauliflower brussels sprouts cabbage those types of vegetables um it's really the precursor is called glucoraphanin and when you
break the plant, like by chewing it, or you break the plant wall, the glucoraphanin comes in contact with an enzyme called myrosinase that breaks it down into a compound called sulforaphane. So sulforaphane is really high in broccoli sprouts. In fact, it's... 100 times higher than mature broccoli. Sprouting broccoli is another option.
break the plant, like by chewing it, or you break the plant wall, the glucoraphanin comes in contact with an enzyme called myrosinase that breaks it down into a compound called sulforaphane. So sulforaphane is really high in broccoli sprouts. In fact, it's... 100 times higher than mature broccoli. Sprouting broccoli is another option.
Broccoli sprouts is another option. I prefer to just take a supplement that, you have to find a good one. So there's a couple of good ones, Avmacol and Prostaphan.
Broccoli sprouts is another option. I prefer to just take a supplement that, you have to find a good one. So there's a couple of good ones, Avmacol and Prostaphan.
Okay.
Okay.
And Brock, they're all sort of, those are like the high quality supplements. But sulforaphane activates a pathway in your body called NRF2 that's a major, major activator of a lot of different genes in our body that get rid of toxic compounds like carcinogens. So like if you're eating, let's say you're eating bacon, you can be exposed to something called heterocyclic amines which can cause cancer.
And Brock, they're all sort of, those are like the high quality supplements. But sulforaphane activates a pathway in your body called NRF2 that's a major, major activator of a lot of different genes in our body that get rid of toxic compounds like carcinogens. So like if you're eating, let's say you're eating bacon, you can be exposed to something called heterocyclic amines which can cause cancer.
Well, activating Nrf2 through sulforaphane can stop your body from getting those terrible heterocyclic amines, right? So it's very good at detoxifying carcinogens, but also other factors like air pollution, benzene that you breathe in. I'm concerned with plastic chemicals like BPA, BPS. I think it's very good at detoxifying that because it does the same.
Well, activating Nrf2 through sulforaphane can stop your body from getting those terrible heterocyclic amines, right? So it's very good at detoxifying carcinogens, but also other factors like air pollution, benzene that you breathe in. I'm concerned with plastic chemicals like BPA, BPS. I think it's very good at detoxifying that because it does the same.
It activates pathways that are able to take BPA make it water soluble because you excrete a lot of BPA through your urine. So that's why I think sulforaphane is very important.
It activates pathways that are able to take BPA make it water soluble because you excrete a lot of BPA through your urine. So that's why I think sulforaphane is very important.
Yeah, so I take my supplements, and then sometimes I also like to do a little hot tub at night as well. And so that would be, like the end of the day would be hot tub relaxing outside under the stars with some relaxing music, conversation with my husband, and then bedtime.
Yeah, so I take my supplements, and then sometimes I also like to do a little hot tub at night as well. And so that would be, like the end of the day would be hot tub relaxing outside under the stars with some relaxing music, conversation with my husband, and then bedtime.
Sounds like a good day.
Sounds like a good day.
yeah that's my idea like cold exposure wasn't in there i i mix it up sometimes in the summer i like to do it when it's really hot or like there's like a big event and it helps me with anxiety but but but my my major jam these days is just exercise like getting out there and like
yeah that's my idea like cold exposure wasn't in there i i mix it up sometimes in the summer i like to do it when it's really hot or like there's like a big event and it helps me with anxiety but but but my my major jam these days is just exercise like getting out there and like
It is. Those are my best days. When I get two in. When I get two in. Yeah.
It is. Those are my best days. When I get two in. When I get two in. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I like both. I think YouTube. Yeah, okay, cool.
Well, you know, I like both. I think YouTube. Yeah, okay, cool.
Yeah, YouTube is.
Yeah, YouTube is.
Right. And that's kind of like the idea why, like my exercise journey where I've come up with this, with how to train guide, right? Yes. How to train, and it's like that's, From my journey of interviewing the experts and then saying, I got to put this together into a more protocols based guide. Right. And I've got a few of those where.
Right. And that's kind of like the idea why, like my exercise journey where I've come up with this, with how to train guide, right? Yes. How to train, and it's like that's, From my journey of interviewing the experts and then saying, I got to put this together into a more protocols based guide. Right. And I've got a few of those where.
It's a free guide. Yeah. How to train.com.
It's a free guide. Yeah. How to train.com.
Oh, sorry. How to train guide.com.
Oh, sorry. How to train guide.com.
Right.
Right.
It's the omega-3 one too. I have an omega-3 guide. It's FMF omega-3 guide.
It's the omega-3 one too. I have an omega-3 guide. It's FMF omega-3 guide.
It's about how to find the best omega-3 supplement, like what matters. And then I have like, I list eight different brands that are quality based on low oxidation status is big. That's like a really important one. And concentration of actually, there's so many supplements that don't even have the concentration of what you think is in there, in there.
It's about how to find the best omega-3 supplement, like what matters. And then I have like, I list eight different brands that are quality based on low oxidation status is big. That's like a really important one. And concentration of actually, there's so many supplements that don't even have the concentration of what you think is in there, in there.
And so that's like a guide on like choosing the best omega-3 supplement.
And so that's like a guide on like choosing the best omega-3 supplement.
Yeah, it's the bdnfprotocols.com. That's the BDNF Protocols Guide. It talks about the easy-hit exercises that have been shown to increase BDNF, as well as other things like polyphenols and how much, and other dietary factors that have been shown to improve and increase BDNF. It's why I do the cocovia. It's why I do the blueberries.
Yeah, it's the bdnfprotocols.com. That's the BDNF Protocols Guide. It talks about the easy-hit exercises that have been shown to increase BDNF, as well as other things like polyphenols and how much, and other dietary factors that have been shown to improve and increase BDNF. It's why I do the cocovia. It's why I do the blueberries.
Because those increase BDNF.
Because those increase BDNF.
Try it. I try it out. Like I actually feel like you can feel a like a pick me up from it. Really? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there's a little bit of caffeine in cocoa, right? But I don't think that's it.
Try it. I try it out. Like I actually feel like you can feel a like a pick me up from it. Really? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there's a little bit of caffeine in cocoa, right? But I don't think that's it.
Because there's it's the blood flow. I'm almost certain it's like it increases blood flow to the brain.
Because there's it's the blood flow. I'm almost certain it's like it increases blood flow to the brain.
The amount is, it's a scoop. And I think it's in the protocols guide. But if you buy the Cocovia, by the way, I have no affiliation with them. You buy, I buy the powder. They have capsules as well. I buy the powder and I do a scoop of the powder. There's something about it being in hot liquid that kind of just goes to the brain. You know what I mean? Plus it has that like coffee.
The amount is, it's a scoop. And I think it's in the protocols guide. But if you buy the Cocovia, by the way, I have no affiliation with them. You buy, I buy the powder. They have capsules as well. I buy the powder and I do a scoop of the powder. There's something about it being in hot liquid that kind of just goes to the brain. You know what I mean? Plus it has that like coffee.
It's like, oh, it feels like coffee effect. But I do one scoop. In hot water? In hot water. And I mix it up with the frother.
It's like, oh, it feels like coffee effect. But I do one scoop. In hot water? In hot water. And I mix it up with the frother.
Okay, okay. And then... It's like a little hot chocolate.
Okay, okay. And then... It's like a little hot chocolate.
It is, it is. You have to add a little stevia or something to it. To make it sweet and it's bitter. Otherwise, you're going to be chugging it because it doesn't taste good.
It is, it is. You have to add a little stevia or something to it. To make it sweet and it's bitter. Otherwise, you're going to be chugging it because it doesn't taste good.
Very bitter.
Very bitter.
All the guides aren't there. They're kind of like separate. Yeah, so like they're separate pages. We'll link them up.
All the guides aren't there. They're kind of like separate. Yeah, so like they're separate pages. We'll link them up.
Yeah, I'm on YouTube. I also have a clip channel where we do release something every day.
Yeah, I'm on YouTube. I also have a clip channel where we do release something every day.
There you go.
There you go.
On YouTube. Definitely every week. Yeah, FoundMyFitness Clips. But the main channel is where we release our long interview expert series. And I'm on X, FoundMyFitness.com. Rhonda Patrick. And then I'm on Instagram also as Rhonda Patrick. I'm also on TikTok, although not as popular as we post, but not quite as popular on TikTok yet. There's a lot to compete with there.
On YouTube. Definitely every week. Yeah, FoundMyFitness Clips. But the main channel is where we release our long interview expert series. And I'm on X, FoundMyFitness.com. Rhonda Patrick. And then I'm on Instagram also as Rhonda Patrick. I'm also on TikTok, although not as popular as we post, but not quite as popular on TikTok yet. There's a lot to compete with there.
Thank you so much, Lewis. Those are very, very kind words. I'm very appreciative to have the opportunity to come and chat with you. And I appreciate everything that you said. It's very nice. Of course. And yeah, I'd love to come back anytime and chat with you again, for sure.
Thank you so much, Lewis. Those are very, very kind words. I'm very appreciative to have the opportunity to come and chat with you. And I appreciate everything that you said. It's very nice. Of course. And yeah, I'd love to come back anytime and chat with you again, for sure.
For all of my content, okay, not for like life.
For all of my content, okay, not for like life.
I would say, exercise get out there and and and make it a part of your personal hygiene i think that exercise it not only makes us healthier and improves the way we age i think it makes us better humans i think it makes us kinder it makes us happier it makes us um you know just just better people and i think that affects the world yes um so i if we could get everyone to like do
I would say, exercise get out there and and and make it a part of your personal hygiene i think that exercise it not only makes us healthier and improves the way we age i think it makes us better humans i think it makes us kinder it makes us happier it makes us um you know just just better people and i think that affects the world yes um so i if we could get everyone to like do
you know five hours of exercise a week where they're doing like one hour a day during the work week i really think that people would be nicer to each other so that would be number one um i think number two would be social connections with the people that you love um and to foster them and cherish them.
you know five hours of exercise a week where they're doing like one hour a day during the work week i really think that people would be nicer to each other so that would be number one um i think number two would be social connections with the people that you love um and to foster them and cherish them.
We didn't talk about that today and the role that plays in aging, which is something, it does play a big role in aging. In fact, all the super agers seem to have this, you know, social connections is a very big, you know, not being lonely, like losing all your friends and not having that social connection
We didn't talk about that today and the role that plays in aging, which is something, it does play a big role in aging. In fact, all the super agers seem to have this, you know, social connections is a very big, you know, not being lonely, like losing all your friends and not having that social connection
is devastating on on the body and the brain and it does age you faster but also um again it comes down to that like connectedness like like connecting with people it's just it's it's so good yeah it's so i don't i don't I don't know that it's better than or worse than like vitamin D. Right. Like it's so important.
is devastating on on the body and the brain and it does age you faster but also um again it comes down to that like connectedness like like connecting with people it's just it's it's so good yeah it's so i don't i don't I don't know that it's better than or worse than like vitamin D. Right. Like it's so important.
And I didn't talk about that in my perfect day, but it actually is a part of my big day. I have a family and I spend a lot of time with my family. So that would be number two. And I think number three would be that. I think. I think there's a lot of potential people are missing in terms of their optimizing their health, their own health and their own lifespan and life expectancy and health span.
And I didn't talk about that in my perfect day, but it actually is a part of my big day. I have a family and I spend a lot of time with my family. So that would be number two. And I think number three would be that. I think. I think there's a lot of potential people are missing in terms of their optimizing their health, their own health and their own lifespan and life expectancy and health span.
And it all comes down to Shifting a focus on what you need. What are the things that you need to run your body? We need essential vitamins and minerals. If you don't get vitamin C, eventually you could die. Magnesium. These are 30 to 40 essential minerals and vitamins. We need these fatty acids. We need amino acids.
And it all comes down to Shifting a focus on what you need. What are the things that you need to run your body? We need essential vitamins and minerals. If you don't get vitamin C, eventually you could die. Magnesium. These are 30 to 40 essential minerals and vitamins. We need these fatty acids. We need amino acids.
shift your thinking to what you need to fuel your body and everything else will fall into place instead of focusing on what you need, avoiding refined carbohydrates. Well, if you think about what you need to eat, that's not gonna be in the equation, so it already goes away, right? And I think it's a simplified way of thinking about health, especially nutrition.
shift your thinking to what you need to fuel your body and everything else will fall into place instead of focusing on what you need, avoiding refined carbohydrates. Well, if you think about what you need to eat, that's not gonna be in the equation, so it already goes away, right? And I think it's a simplified way of thinking about health, especially nutrition.
Yeah, the food and the vitamins that you need to run your body, right.
Yeah, the food and the vitamins that you need to run your body, right.
I know that's a hard one. So I think for me my definition of greatness is really trying to push past my mental barriers, things that hold me back, things I'm afraid of, my fears. to avoid thinking and seeing, to try to see less of the negative and more of the positive, seeing less of the problems and more of the solutions. I think that for me, greatness is really,
I know that's a hard one. So I think for me my definition of greatness is really trying to push past my mental barriers, things that hold me back, things I'm afraid of, my fears. to avoid thinking and seeing, to try to see less of the negative and more of the positive, seeing less of the problems and more of the solutions. I think that for me, greatness is really,
pushing past the fears and negativity, I think. If I get past that, things are really great. I think last time I talked about honesty as my greatness, and I think that's definitely still part of my greatness. Yeah, I think just getting past the hard, hard stuff is greatness.
pushing past the fears and negativity, I think. If I get past that, things are really great. I think last time I talked about honesty as my greatness, and I think that's definitely still part of my greatness. Yeah, I think just getting past the hard, hard stuff is greatness.
So whether it's in my social relationships or being a parent, being a wife, being a daughter or being a podcaster or being a scientist, in every part of what makes me who I am, There are things that hold me back. There are things I'm scared of. And there are things that I can identify a lot of problems in without seeing the solutions. And I think that those are not greatness.
So whether it's in my social relationships or being a parent, being a wife, being a daughter or being a podcaster or being a scientist, in every part of what makes me who I am, There are things that hold me back. There are things I'm scared of. And there are things that I can identify a lot of problems in without seeing the solutions. And I think that those are not greatness.
I think that's holding me back from greatness.
I think that's holding me back from greatness.
Sure, sure. Ron, I appreciate it. Thank you for being here.
Sure, sure. Ron, I appreciate it. Thank you for being here.
Thanks so much. Thank you so much.
Thanks so much. Thank you so much.