Dr. Erin Foster
Appearances
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
Well, this kind of behavior continues. One, it exists for two reasons, psychologically and then behaviorally. Why does it persist? That comes down to how self-aware are you and how willing are you to increase your insight about your self-awareness? And the root of this is deep insecurity. That seems obvious, but the insecurity is rooted in fear.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
The reason this persists is that some sort of childhood wound, some lack of attachment continues to persist into adulthood. So that's the psychology behind this is what wound, what attachment is not secure and And now you have this self-seeking, very deeply insecure, attention-seeking behavior. And the thought, the belief is, I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy enough.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
And I am terrified that somebody else is going to think the same thing about me. So what am I going to do? I'm going to project and I'm going to put it onto somebody else. And This is really a reflection of how someone thinks and feels about themselves. So we know hurt people hurt people.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
That's right. It doesn't. And let's call this what it is, bullying. And bullying is really abuse. So let's take a deeper look at the behavior behind bullying. I'm a behavioral analyst and I look at four areas of behavior in how you do something and then six areas of why do you do it, your value, your motivation. One of the scales is about power and control.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
So if you do not have a healthy self-awareness, if you do not. Also, if you haven't been modeled how to treat people, you will want to have power and control over others. Now, when you combine that with somebody. who wants to get ahead, who is looking to produce a result with this behavior, now they become incredibly dominant. And then when you see that dominance, that's the bullying.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
And then the abuse comes out when it's, I want to have power over you.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
We do know better and there is no excuse for it. And it's it's petty. and it's immature. And if we look at it from an evolutionary anthropological perspective, you had to think about self-preservation in order to survive. And I like what you're saying about the strongest, fittest man, the one who could provide food, is how you would survive. That's deeply rooted in our DNA.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
Well, you also had to survive based on the community. So when I look at it from that lens in terms of social media, which has become too permissive to focus on self-preservation, versus am I treating someone with kindness? Am I treating someone the way I would wish to be treated? And that goes back to the self-awareness. Well, social media has allowed us to not be self-aware.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
It's given us permission. If I'm going to look at it from a Jungian psychoanalytic lens, it's given us permission to hide behind a mask. And what is the persona that I'm going to put out? But is that persona rooted in am I thinking about how to help someone else or is it rooted in how do I help myself in order to survive?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
I'm sorry that happened because it's really a reflection of how she feels about herself. Oh, clearly. I mean, yeah. No, I figured that out. People with character, people with integrity don't go around intentionally wishing to destroy other people. And based on my own experiences of having overt aggression for something I did not do is really about...
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
somebody who is jealous and intimidated and desperately wants what you have. Because people like you that have light, that speak truth, people who don't have that want that. And we live in this culture now that is permissive to be cruel. We live in this culture where now it is accessible to be unkind. And it really takes strength and it takes being brave to say, eh, Don't care. Don't need that.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
I'm going to stand up to that.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
Great question. When do I walk away? So I talk about, is this in alignment with my authentic self? If I choose to be associated or engage with this person, am I honoring my authentic self? Does the energy flow? And we all know friendship is about mutual trust, respect, and communication. So you have to weigh, is this worth having a conversation where there can be a repair or
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
Or do you consider the source and say, am I suffering a fool? And do I protect myself by having a boundary and walking away? So I always look at what is the longevity of the friendship? Has there been shared mutual experiences that have bonded us in trust and respect and admiration? And if I can say yes, then I say yes. You go to a friend and say yes. This is what I perceived happened.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
This is how I felt about it. I'd like to discuss it. If you don't believe that will be well received and if you believe that you and you have evidence to suggest that it's only going to continue, cut your losses, walk away because that's having a boundary and boundaries are healthy.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
So women friendship is really rooted in a mutual understanding. We have experiences.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
that we don't have with men friends or romantic partners and there is a deep understanding it's the connectivity and the bonding comes in shared experience and things that we go through as women and there's a significant amount of trust there and so losing a deep friendship is incredibly wounding because it's destabilizing a piece of your identity and
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
Women have so many roles that we play that that participate in who we are and so many roles that define who we are. And when you feel like you have someone that has your back and you lose that, you're losing a sense of self.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
So I see this all the time in my office. And my approach is I first ask them who they are. I ask the child, who do you know you are? And I really like to root them in a sense of their belief in their own value and worth first. And I encourage that and I support that and reinforce it. And then I ask them, what do they believe to be true about the other person?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
And then the other piece that I weave into this is, what do you think is happening with them? Because their behavior is a reflection of them. And I do this because I think it's important to understand what motivates people and that there may be something bigger going on with this other person so that they have a sense of compassion for people who are hurting, but also knowing this is not safe.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
This is not a safe person. So I walk away.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
So in those moments, what you have to do is help them to process what is happening and give them the language that, for their feelings. Give them the word to use with what they are feeling, and then an action. We move through emotion through action. And I really work with kids, especially teenagers. What can you do with how you feel in order to empower yourself?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
While also normalizing the feeling, not the behavior.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Real Jon Hamm is Not Who You Think, Plus What Happens When "Mean Girls" Grow Up and Get Meaner
Well, it depends. Could be. Oh, really? What kind of revenge would you encourage, wink, wink? What would you say?