Dr. Blythe Corbett
Appearances
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I like your spirit. So we have been able to implement SENS Theater in a couple of sites through our multi-site clinical trial in the country. But I think we've now done so many studies to show its efficacy that we've been published in high-impact journals to show there are really some significant changes that can take place for many of our participants.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
But now we are exploring different ways so that we can make sense data more available to people in other states, potentially other countries, who would like to adopt this model.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Sure.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Well, first, I will address this idea of performance. In another area of my research in my lab, we study stress. As part of that, we expose individuals to different types of what we will call social paradigms. One of them is well-established. It's called the True Social Stress Test.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And what it requires is for someone to perform either telling a story or participating in a job interview or some of these kind of situations in front of raters. And these raters have neutral facial expressions and they are evaluating the person who's getting up and performing for them.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
For many of us, not having that positive affirmation of you're doing a good job or smiling and that sort of thing and seeing this flat aspect can be incredibly stressful. It also consists of performing a math subtraction test that if you get it wrong, you have to start over. Remarkably stressful for most of us because we don't want to be socially evaluated.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Well, across a number of different studies that we've published, we have found that many individuals in the upper west defense do not find such situations to be stressful. This idea of social evaluation and that kind of threat does not seem to be as concerning. In Sense Theater, we have found for many of our participants the same thing, Tony.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
It's so interesting because many of them, they love being on the stage. They want to perform. It's interesting that in contrast to a lot of us, it's not as stressful as one might imagine.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
But the other aspect that you mentioned in terms of the novelty factor, the new experience of walking into meeting people you've never met and doing things we haven't done and wearing clothes that might be uncomfortable in the form of a costume, those things we do need to shape. Meaning? Gradually introduce them for some of our participants. Take things slowly. Give them breaks.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
So I have several scientific endeavors. And then I also run a nonprofit called I started a theater program for individuals with autism spectrum disorder. And I think that's especially what we probably want to talk about today. It's called Sense Theater.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And also let them participate in the decision. For example, what kind of costume do you want to wear? What do you have at home in your own closet that you can bring to be part of your costume? And they help also pick out other pieces that we might want to get for their character. That can help.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
But getting past that first day, if we can do that, we tell parents, if we can just get through day one, we're going to be fine. So we try to plan day one pretty carefully.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
to share a couple of different things that we do. So we start out with joke time. Every week, we ask for W1 to bring in a joke that they will perform. And we, of course, support them in lab, even if it's not funny. They have to be clean. They're G-rated. But part of just doing that kind of gets over our fear of having people laugh, which some people think at us, but it's really with us.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Also by the ability to learn how to tell a joke, that can be really helpful. Also going back to what we mentioned before in terms of improvisation. So we do some exercise there and there's a lot of theater games, which kind of loosen everybody up. They get silly and do things that everyday life does not allow.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And so that can also help us to become more flexible, not only what we're saying and approaching things, but also with our bodies and how we might use them to, again, bring out humor or different reactions in other people.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I think that theater is an ideal environment in which to welcome so many different voices, points of view, and ways to express ourselves. We have illustrated that through the programs, but we also continue to learn. For example, we just did a program that was for individuals with autism and intellectual disability.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Tony, similar to you, I have an interesting background as a performer.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And so they also not only had their voices heard, but their performance was so well received by an audience, including some of their parents that marveled at what their children were able to do. So I think the theater naturally provides a beautiful platform for us to embrace art.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
We can include aspects of science, but it really does welcome people with all abilities and points of view to be able to share their perspective through the telling of a story and being able to, in the process, generally learn about others, but also ourselves.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And I think that unfolds naturally in the theater, but also the audience is a vital part of this intervention as well, because it's a give and take and that also that relationship, which is how we embrace the autism community by being on the stage and they get off the stage and how we now see them differently is actually a platform for their own voices.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I'm a writer and an actor. That was my background. I recognized early on, as many people do in the field, that our own sense of confidence and social communication can really be enhanced through the performing arts, including acting. Certainly my life was changed notably by being an actor.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
In terms of the program, we've been able to provide SENS Theater as a form of intervention through the generous support of research funding. We now are transitioning and exploring different business models and
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I'm seeking business partners who can also help build that program to make it more accessible, still affordable for members of the community, but in ways that we maintain the integrity of the program that we've done through research, but at the same time, expand our accessibility so that people in other parts of the country and potentially even
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
the world would be able to access sense theater for their autistic community.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Two different sites for your listeners. If you'd like to learn more about Sense Theater, it's for a non-profit. The address is sensetheater.com, which is all lowercase, S-E-N-S-E-T-H-E-A-T-R-E.com. And then for more information about Sense Theater, as well as our research that we're doing, you can find out more information on our website at senselab.vkcsites.org.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Thank you so much, Tony.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And so years later, when I went to college, which I went quite late in life compared to many people, I started working with some children with autism. I was intrigued by them. I was drawn to working with them.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And I thought in the back of my mind, someday, you know, utilizing theater might be an impactful way to enhance or bring out the social communication and the voices of individuals with autism. And so that's how the idea emerged.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
It was in 2009 that I first started Sense Theater. I originally wrote a couple of grants. None of them were funded, and so I started a nonprofit. We were able to, through a music benefit, which you'll appreciate, raise just enough money to pay for the research. Everybody worked for free.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
But we ended up the number of different measures that we were really impacting some of the core attributes, characteristics of autism by utilizing this approach.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
It has definitely emerged as something significantly larger than what I thought it would be. Like I said, it started out as a nonprofit. I was at University of California, Davis. When I came to Vanderbilt, it was really embraced, and they really wanted me to continue to include myself
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Since theater is part of my own program, which I had always wanted to do anyway, even though I established it elsewhere, I was given the opportunity to continue to expand it here. I also, through the extremely generous support of the National Institute of Mental Health, I've been able to receive three grants from them to include an initial
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
randomized clinical trial pilot project, then a multi-site randomized clinical trial, and then another clinical trial for adults. So the program has expanded exponentially in terms of research. In the process, we've learned a lot about what does change in response to this peer-mediated, theater-based approach. Some things they don't, but we just continue to better understand it.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And at this point, we've literally given it the program to hundreds of youth with autism spectrum disorder, and we've also done it at other sites.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I would say right from the very beginning, I think people did not take it seriously that theater might be an actual form of intervention or a way in which to really impact the lives of people with autism spectrum disorders and be actually a platform for their own voices.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Once I got past that in trying to convince people that this wasn't simply a recreational activity for them, and I was able to show the science and the fundamental principles of why there might be change, then people started really embracing it. For example, we know in psychology that peers can really make a significant impact for many of us. It's called peer mediation.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And so I thought if we really want individuals with autism to be able to better engage with their peers, then we should include peers in the intervention. This has been done in other contexts, but I made it front and center for a sense theater. So we train what we would characterize as typically developing peers.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
They could be undergraduate students, they could be high school students, but they have good social communication skills. Some of them do have a theater background, but they're paired one-on-one with a participant who has autism in the program. So that's one key component. Another key component, is actually utilizing theater and looking at it as a form of intervention.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
For example, improvisation allows us to think more flexibly. We know that individuals with autism have sometimes difficulty thinking more flexibly and tend to be a little more concrete. So that's an example of a way that we can embrace something that we think of as part of a recreational or artistic activity and utilize it as a part of an intervention. So that's just one example.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
It was convincing others in the way in which we presented it that this could be a way to impact individuals' lives and not just provide fun activity for them.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
So, well, improvisation, I want to highlight is just one technique that we use. But to answer your question, an interesting thing happens when you are trying something and maybe you're uncomfortable and everyone around you is also going through the same experience. And their reaction is they're laughing, they're being silly, they're making mistakes. And it becomes that nobody cares.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I just forgot my life or I just made up something new and everybody's laughing and supporting me. And this is interesting to quote, not do it right and have people reinforce that. I think that's part of it is getting this collective sense of social reinforcement and realizing that there isn't just one way to do something. After a while, that process sometimes can be infectious.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Absolutely. And thank you for asking. So we do work with a script and I'll tell you a little bit more about that in a minute, but I used to work with published scripts that people are quite familiar with, but I went back to my roots. We did this for a number of reasons. One, yes, I admit it's really fun, but for me, but in addition to that, we can choose the topics that
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
We can be flexible in terms of, you know, with our actors, with and without autism, they might come up with really great ideas. Guess what? They're now part of the play. They might have talents that they might be musicians. And all of a sudden we... Might have a gorilla who happens to play the violin. Why not?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And so being, again, being flexible in the way that we also present the stories can be meaningful. So we do have a script. We also include music. And typically we have about three songs throughout the 45 to 60 minute play. I say it's played with music because we don't provide as much music as you would normally see in a full-on musical.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Music is yet another aspect of the program that I don't need to tell you, Tony, but it really brings out a lot of really meaningful, powerful emotions in people. It's in Beijing, so it can often help people to want to participate. And obviously, it can be...
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
an enhanced and thrilling experience for the audience as well they also end up participating too a little bit more i think in the program because of that element of music so we have the script we have some music we have some improv but i think one of the other most critical characteristics of the program is everyone is cast in the show everyone has a character that they need to develop.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And so that also builds perspective taking, also better understanding the self, making decisions about how we're going to walk and talk and engage with others. What is my relationship with this character versus another? These are wonderful ways to practice and learn about social skills without being so obvious. It's a fun way to try to enhance our experience about other people and ourselves.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
It depends on the program, but we have gone down as young as seven. For most of our research, though, has been conducted with participants 10 to 16 years of age, so that's a youth program. And then we also have had programs for adults, and that ranges in age from 18 to 40 years of age.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
In general, in the youth program, there are 10 sessions, and they range between three to four hours each session for most of the programs that we've done. It then culminates into a dress rehearsal, as well as two public performances of the play.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
Oh my goodness. So we've been doing this since 2009. I would say that each year, first of all, I've written approximately about 10 different plays for the program. And each year, well, 2010, we're putting out usually, we have usually at least two a year, sometimes as many as four. So quite a few.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I've been at Vanderbilt for 14 years. I've been here 2010, and so it's been run through my clinical research program. Prior to coming here, I ran the associated program for just under two years.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I'm really excited to be here.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
So the reception has been wonderful. The autistic community has embraced it, has been really supportive. The families have been grateful that we have been able to provide a lot of opportunity for their family members. And because we've done it through research, many of them have been able to participate in the program at no cost.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
In terms of the peers that have participated in the program and have volunteered and provided support, for some of them, it's been really transformative.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
in a lot of ways, to be able to spend time with individuals on the spectrum, gain a much better understanding, not only of the condition, but the individuals, to be able to meet so many different people and change their perspective of what they think autism is.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And then finally, the audience has been, I think, although we haven't studied it, but I've heard enough comments to believe they've really been impacted as well. I know that we have an audience there that's impressionable. And so I intentionally also write stories that I think are highly relevant.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
The topics for the plays are about things like belonging and acceptance and trying new things and some having a characteristic or something that's different. And am I going to be accepted? And those type of things. And these messages, though, are delivered through characters that are quite wonderfully unique and different.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
So it's wonderful to be here. So I am a professor at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences. I have had the privilege of working with children and adults with autism and for nearly 30 years. And I work with them and my life is enriched by them in many ways. So I am a clinician specifically, a pediatric neuropsychologist. I'm also a researcher.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
And it's much more palatable to hear some of these messages when it's delivered by an insect. Or an animal or some other lovely, entertaining creature. I think that some of those embedded metaphors have been extremely well received by our audience as well.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
I've been really lucky in that I do have members of my lab who also happen to be remarkably talented. We also collaborate with Dr. Leah Lowe, who is involved with the theater department. I've also worked with other theater directors in the past who bring their incredible talent as directors and they direct the plays as inclusive as I possibly can.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
For example, our theater director that we've worked with many times is also an adult who is autistic. Our accompanist is an adult. also who has autism. I write the songs with a parent who has an adult child with autism.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression
So in many ways, we are trying to not only with our participants in the program, but hear the voices and honor the perspective of individuals with autism throughout the program on and off the stage.