Dr. Andy Galpin
👤 PersonPodcast Appearances
It's just, I can't even explain how much of an honor and a pleasure this is.
I've been telling you for a long time now how stoked I am about this and my wife is tired of hearing of it.
So I'm finally excited to get here and do it.
Yeah, I get the question of performance versus longevity or health or nutrition a lot.
And I think as you've done so well over your career, there are tenets that are going to agree and then there's going to be distension.
And so I think it's easiest maybe to frame this as what are the flags we can put on both sides of this equation?
Known obvious yeses and obvious noes, right?
So if you want to live your longest, healthiest life,
Number one, we're all going to agree on probably five, seven, maybe eight different things.
And if you were to look, I'll just do it this way.
If I said, okay, great, because we deal with these clients.
I deal with high-performance athletes, as you mentioned, and we have a lot of our clients that are like you.
They're not athletes, never were, do not care, but they're wanting them to live their longest, healthiest life.
And if I threw their diets in front of you, I'd be stunned if you could tell me which one was for which person.
I don't think you'd have any chance, right?
So you'd say, what's that gonna look like?
We're gonna center around protein, right?
You've talked about that endlessly.
It's gonna be high and high quality.
We're gonna have a lot of variety of foods.
We're gonna have a lot of variety of colors.
Turns out micronutrients, vitamins, and minerals are pretty important, right?
Like your entire career.
We're gonna have some attention paid to fiber.
Caloric intake will be managed.
We're gonna distribute carbohydrates and fat in some way that helps them hit their needs and goals and personal preferences.
We could go down the list, but the easiest way to think about it is how much overlap is there?
Almost all.
What are the small differences between these performance and longevity goals?
Well, depends on what type of performance.
So we're talking about a lot of caloric expenditure.
Are we talking about a power event?
Then, yeah, we're going to find some differences.
And we can chop that up all day if you want to know exact numbers and hours.
But the reality of it is, both of those people, performance, longevity, you have to manage calories one way or the other.
You have to do all the other things.
It's not that different.
You can make some arguments of...
Maybe you can get away with certain things.
If you're not interested in performance, you can do some different things with food timing, food frequency.
You can play with some different stuff where you wouldn't want to do that with a high-performance athlete.
So there's a lot of fun differences with those things.
But at the highest level for the average person, if you're eating like a high-performance athlete, for the most part, you're also eating for longevity.
Only big fundamental difference there might be caloric balance.
That's the top layer.
But other than that, it's pretty similar.
Yeah, there's a lot of things to think about here.
I know that I sent you right before we started here our preprint of one of our fasting studies we just got published.
So we can go into that if you want.
But in general, the biggest way to think about this is, is the magnitude of benefit with the intervention exceeding the magnitude of preference?
And what I mean by that is,
When I coach people, this morning, like literally this morning, I'm dealing with putting together a program for the number one quarterback in college football.
Right after that, I have to deal with one of our executives who's a 60-year-old female.
Right after that, I'm also dealing with a guy preparing for a 900-mile hike.
And so that context is important because as I'm answering questions like this, all of these avatars are in my head.
And I'm thinking, what is true for a person one, two, and three?
And what is true for the other person who doesn't exercise at all?
And if something's not consistent across those four, then I have to modify and contextualize the answer.
So when it comes to training fasted, great.
If you are going for an event like you're talking about and you feel better when you do it,
That matters to me in that particular context more than the physiological benefit because the physiological benefit is not fake.
It's just not huge.
So is it more beneficial for your mitochondria?
Yes, potentially.
But if you look at the amount, it's not that much.
Now, if you liked it or didn't care, fine.
But if you're like, I hate it, my performance is worse, I don't like it, I don't feel good, then we actually don't do it.
And so my first layer answer to all that is number one, what are you actually performing best in?
What are your personal preferences?
Are you training in the morning?
Are you training in the evening?
All these other factors that are now, again, contextualized are my true answer.
And I hate to be wishwashy on that, but that's the most honest answer because I deal with a lot of people with different goals and different scenarios.
So the science can lead us in one direction, but the actual layering on top of what would I really recommend a human do, that in this scenario matters more.
So if you look at the research very specifically on fasting exercise,
Always depends on the type of exercise.
You mentioned you were really careful about saying like, I'm under 60 minutes, right?
I'm under 60 minutes.
Like I know you're aware that that answer will change, right?
What am I optimizing for?
Am I optimizing for performance?
Am I optimizing for feeling better that day?
More focused that day?
Am I optimizing for the happiness, the personal?
There's so many different reasons why one would exercise that you have to answer all those questions and figure out, well, what lever am I trying to pull here?
What am I trying to get out of it?
So do we have people, I'll answer this way.
Do we ever take somebody and say, hey, you need to start doing your endurance work in the morning fasted?
I can't think of very many times when we've ever done that.
But if somebody shows up with that, well, we don't have any strong reason we're not going to pull them off of it either.
So the way that we would frame this is –
We need more information on them to determine whether or not that's going to actually matter for them.
So if they're saying, okay, I want to enhance fat burning, I want to enhance oxidative capacity.
Great.
Well, we actually need to look at their capacity for metabolic flexibility.
We need to test that.
I need to see that number, right?
If you're just saying you want more, I'm going to say more from where.
Like, where are you currently at?
I don't know.
Well, then we don't know if we have anything to actually gain here.
So we could do that intervention, and I don't know if it would do anything for you.
If you're already pegged on that, if your mitochondria are already functioning very high, if your ability to utilize fuel independent of food is strong, then we're not going to get anything from that.
If you're really weak in that area, then we would get something from it.
So our first answer is data, right?
We have to run some objective tests.
If you don't want to do that or can't do that,
You want to give that a try?
Sure.
Like, fine.
It's probably not going to hurt much in the short term.
So go ahead and do that.
So my answer to somebody who asked that question, like, I want to optimize mitochondria.
Okay, great.
Starting off with faster cardio is not the place we would go, but we might use it eventually.
If you can do a whole bunch of stuff, and we can do this objectively.
Okay, when you go out and train, how do you feel if you don't eat before?
oh, I feel terrible.
Okay, well, that's like an easy litmus test to say maybe we have some stuff we can do there.
There's way more we could get into in detail.
I wouldn't only ask that question, but that's how we would actually think about that answer.
So it could be everything from yes to like, I'm not super worried about it.
If they're really, really stoked to do it, I'm probably going to say yes, just for that fact alone.
Like, yeah, let's give it a go.
But I don't necessarily think you would have to do that to have healthy mitochondria, if that's another way to answer the question.
Personal preference in terms of feeding or not feeding.
The literature would be fairly clear here.
I would say our personal experience would match that.
Some people are fine.
Some people are not.
If you want to go just like practical recommendations, a banana and a protein shake.
Super easy.
A little bit of yogurt, maybe in granola.
We have a lot of our athletes that will train in the morning.
That's a really common thing.
Some granola, yogurt, maybe honey, maybe some berries, small six to eight ounces, right?
Really small servings.
You're talking probably 300 calories.
maybe 50 grams of carbohydrate, like in these rough neighborhoods of things, some a little protein, 10 to 30 grams, depending on their physical size.
Remember, some of our athletes are 115 pounds, some of them are 350 pounds.
So like the numbers vary.
A small size is different for those people.
So personal preference, but yeah, the recommendations would be things like that.
We don't have too many athletes or clients that...
we'll intentionally ask them to not eat before they train, like we sort of talked about.
But the easy, quick, just get out the door stuff, that's what we're going to lean on.
Like very simple, easy digesting, small amounts of food, probably not as much as your full breakfast, but those things will tend to work pretty well.
Mm-hmm.
The acute timeframe pre mid post exercise for those people probably doesn't matter that much.
It really isn't going to have a huge impact.
What will matter is the days and weeks, the total caloric expenditure throughout the day.
This person, if you're training in the morning, you probably have at least 24 hours to recover, right?
Even if you're training hard every single day, most of the time when we get really specific about nutrient timing, it's because a lot of our clientele are training twice or more a day.
That's when timing really is critical, whether you're talking about timing of fat, protein, and carbohydrates.
So when we hear people say things like, oh, timing doesn't matter, for the average person, it's not a huge deal.
But for some of our people, it really significantly matters.
But what you just described is not.
It's that other person who's like, I'm exercising, let's just even say seven days a week.
Probably most people are doing like five.
So even in between that, you've got a lot of recovery time.
So what you have before the workout is,
Doesn't matter a huge amount.
Whether you have it immediately post, doesn't matter a huge amount.
The total in throughout the day, the only caveat is actually what you asked a little bit before.
It's personal preference.
I don't feel as well.
Okay, great.
I'm stomach, awesome.
That's the context.
It's not the physiology or the biology that's mattering there.
It's now personal preference or objective data that says we're getting
less performance out of this is your recovery slowing down one of the cases.
So overall, I would say do what feels best for you there.
And there's not a significant thing you should be worried about the productivity you're leaving on the table, progress you're leaving on the table or compromised results from no matter what choice you make there, whether it is fats, the protein or the carbohydrates.
Yeah, so we actually ran this study.
We started in 2019, and we just published it this week.
That tells you, you know how that goes.
COVID killed us.
We had a big cohort study going.
Our last two groups, I was like literally days away from doing the final biopsies, and we got pulled out of the lab, and I was like begging our people.
I'm like, just let me one day go in and biopsy 10 people.
No, they wouldn't, so...
Nonetheless, we ran this study and one of the things we're interested in is with time restricted eating 16 to 8, all the research on that area for the most part is caloric restriction.
So how does this thing work for fat loss?
And that's fine.
Grant Tinsley, I don't know if you know Grant, but he's done a ton of work at Texas Tech and lots of other groups have done it.
You've talked a lot about TREs, 16 to 8, okay, great.
What I was more interested in is what's the opposite?
What about the person who's trying to gain muscle?
If I do 16-8, what's actually happening here?
And because of the way that I operate, I don't care about just a molecular mechanism.
I don't care just about body composition.
I wanted to ask questions about sleep, about personal preference, about digestion, about how hard the diet was, how likely are you to do it, physical performance.
Because when you go into the real world, that's how you make decisions, right?
I want to be able to tell people, hey, this 16-8, maybe it is better for body composition, but it's harder to follow, right?
Or it makes your sleep worse.
Or it's better for everything.
Whatever combination the answer is going to be, I don't really care.
But that's the full context people have when they make dietary decisions.
So that's what we did.
We took people that were very well-trained.
And we did eight weeks of strength training with them in the lab, supervised all that already, again, previously well-trained men and women, college age as normal.
We did biopsies.
We did muscle imaging.
We did questionnaires.
We did sleep stuff.
We did blood.
We did a bunch of different things.
And ultimately what we wanted to see was, okay, we're going to put them all at the same protein load and we're going to put them in caloric excess.
So hypercaloric, not hypocaloric.
We know the answer what happens with TRE if you're trying to lose weight.
What happens if somebody actively trying to gain muscle?
So that's the very unique twist of it.
And it was super interesting.
The take-home message was it didn't matter a ton.
As long as you hit your numbers, the results were basically the same across both groups, right?
So standard four, five, six feedings a day versus TRE.
Now we actually like doubled down on the question because we actually made the people train in the TRE group in the morning and then they had to wait at least an hour before they fueled afterwards.
So they trained, fasted, they didn't recover with protein or anything like that immediately afterwards and they stayed in that state until the afternoon, right?
So even despite of that, it didn't significantly compromise muscle growth or performance or really anything else.
We saw some subtle differences.
The TRE group actually looked like it didn't gain as much body fat because you're going to do that when you go hypochloric, right?
You're going to, especially if you're well-trained, you want to add muscle, you're going to bring some fat along for the route.
I don't know if it was enough of a difference.
And I spent a lot of time in that data set
I don't know if that's a real finding, to be honest, or if that was just a little bit of an artifact.
The counter to it was, as time went on, fatigue got higher in the TRE group.
Legs got heavier, performance in the legs started to decline.
Again...
So much so what I suggest TRE is gonna be bad.
No, no, but it was like, okay, I think there's something happening here.
I think potentially if we were to change the study design a little bit and give them fuel closer, that would have made it, not exactly sure.
We would have to run a separate study design for that.
And so if you torture the data a little bit, you might find some subtle differences between the two groups.
And they were, you know, statistically significant and effect size and like all those things there.
But looking at it from a real practitioner perspective, my general take home was it didn't matter a ton.
If you're trying to maximize leg strength and maximize leg growth, I probably wouldn't go to 16.8 TRE.
But if you have other reasons to do it, you're still going to get gains.
They still got stronger.
They didn't get as strong.
There's some other issues that happen, but either one of them works.
I think it would, honestly, it was more of a carbohydrate issue.
carbohydrates yeah i think that was the bigger issue because they were going so long without carbohydrates and they were training so hard they were and they were doing the same workout multiple times per week i just think over time we were also progressing them so they were being tested every time they came in the lab and the training got harder right like traditional progressive overload i don't think they i wish we had actually biopsy data for their um muscle glycogen levels
But if I had to suspect, I think that that was starting to leak down.
And I just think the legs were getting, we would say just getting heavier over time.
Like it just wasn't handling the volume because that's actually what happened to the volume.
Depending on when this comes out, it may already be there.
Like any day.
Any day.
I'm stunned it actually hasn't happened yet.
Well, so actually, that's super interesting because when I looked at this, I was like, man, I think that's just the better approach.
Maybe if they would have done their fasting in the evening, afternoon, there's a bunch of other arguments we could make that that's better anyways.
That would be a really cool follow-up, and I'd be willing to bet they wouldn't have had such indirect, indirect markers of fatigue over time.
They just didn't have fuel for a really long time.
I could also tell you these things behind, and this is like the veil of people that when you run actual studies, you can make comments about things that aren't in the paper.
The people had a really hard time with the carbohydrates.
That was the complaint.
And so when you had a whole bunch, you remember, because you're getting, some of these people are at six, 700 grams of carbohydrate a day.
And you got to get that in an eight hour window.
GI was just destroyed.
Like it was a lot of people were like, man, my stomach is just blowing up from 600 grams of carbohydrates.
Could you imagine eating 200 grams of carbohydrates?
A couple hours later, you got another 200, another 200.
It was just a lot.
Yeah, well, we had big, we have some big people, right?
So if you're 110 kilos and you've got to be at a hypo, and you're at either, you know, six grams per kilogram body weight, like those numbers get high fast, right?
So in order to get there, that stuff got there.
Even the protein got a little tough as well.
So we didn't see, I wish we would have had more subjective questions in those areas, but that what I would say, it was just hard for those people to hit their numbers.
Most of them got there, but they're just like, whoa.
I just wish I had another hour.
Like, give me another two hours.
Could I get 50 grams of this protein a little bit earlier?
That'd make my life so much easier.
So I just think from a practical perspective, it was harder for them to follow.
It was harder for them to hit their numbers waiting the whole day than to start and hit it in a caloric surplus.
So if you're not in a caloric surplus,
Different equation here.
If you're on a caloric deficit, different equation here.
But for people that are pre-trained, pretty well-trained, and they're actively trying to get bigger and stronger, it wouldn't be the first approach I would take.
But it's still plausible.
Clearly it worked.
They still got benefits from it.
But switching the order, I think, would be cool.
I don't think it would have gained as much.
They would have gained some, right?
If you look at like, again, all grants work and a lot of that hypochloric state stuff, sometimes they gain muscle.
It can happen, but can they gain it at the same rate as when you add more calories?
I don't think so.
And I don't think so because in our particular program, the training program was really aggressive.
They were training hard for really well-trained people.
I don't think the recovery would be there.
I just don't think it would be there.
So we let them choose their window.
So some of them came in and trained at like seven o'clock in the morning because they want to start their eating window at 10.
Right.
But they're college kids.
So most of them trained like 10, 11, 12 o'clock in the morning.
And then they would start their eating windows, you know, between one and two o'clock in the afternoon, like something like that.
Depends on if they work or whatever.
So we let them shift a little bit.
The time domains had to be the same, but when the, like we didn't make them start at noon, like 10,
depending on their life schedule.
Sleep didn't really change that much.
I wish we would have had some of our newer sleep technology.
We could have really objectively looked at it at the time.
We just had basic questionnaires, right?
So we'll see there.
What we did notice is the perceived fatigue and naps increased over time in the TRE group.
And so again, a little inclination there of saying, I think fatigue was setting in more.
Some of that didn't land statistically significant, but you start to see sort of multiple things in the same pattern.
You go, all right, if we run a follow-up study there, that might be interesting to focus on.
You don't have to.
If you can get away with it, you're fine.
It's not the thing we're super concerned about, depending on where you're at.
If you can get through it, if your total caloric intake throughout the day is fine, if your carbohydrate intake throughout the day is fine, and depending on how often you're strength training, if you're the kind of typical person who's training the same body part on non-consecutive days, then carbohydrate pre-exercise is not a big deal.
It's totally fine.
You can get away with your strength training.
It'd be a personal preference again.
If you're training, though, the same muscle group in multiple days or multiple times per day, that's when the carbohydrate timing will matter most.
So you can have it before.
Generally, people feel better with it.
Performance is usually better, but it's not always.
We will generally, as just a high-level rule, try to get more of our calories around training.
Just period.
Regardless of what we're doing, regardless of what type of training, regardless of the person, as a first level thing, that's our preference.
We want to either do it pre, mid, post.
In your example there, if we're trying to bring calories down, we're going to go somewhere else if we can.
It doesn't always work that way.
People don't always like it.
But that is our default position is, yeah, we're going to do more calories in and around the training to support it.
I want better performance.
You perform better, you get better adaptations.
That's generally how we look at it.
Different equation now, right?
So whether you talk about strength training or even endurance training, but as you said earlier, like you're talking sub 60 minutes at kind of a moderate to low intensity,
carbohydrate before training for most people is not going to matter that much.
Now you're talking about something different, really high intensity exercise for a prolonged amount and or moderate exercise for a longer amount, right?
So we'll define longer by plus 60 minutes.
Now you will very often see performance improvements with carbohydrates.
That said, we have some of our people, some of our friends, a good friend of mine that I will never stop
giving him the business on this one, Cam Haines, you know Cam?
Oh yeah, Cam's great.
The worst performance nutrition you could just possibly dream of, right?
Like he will intentionally not eat and drink water and then go run 18 miles, right?
And you're just like, what are we doing here, right?
I've made the argument, like I will PR him in every race he's ever done if he would just like let me tell him, he would just follow what I tell him to do, but he refuses.
So you can do these things.
This is not a matter of it's impossible physiologically, but are you going to get your best out of it?
Probably not.
Carbohydrates before exercise, probably three or four hours before exercise, if possible, if you're trying to maximize performance, generally looking at something in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 grams of carbohydrates.
that's a huge plus or minus range there.
Three or four hours before we were generally looking at starches, slower digesting, like give it time, not a big spike.
Some people we will tinker with 30 minutes before something in the neighborhood of 50, 60 grams of carbohydrates, maybe a little bit more.
Some people though kind of deal with a glucose double whammy if you do that.
So you gotta be careful.
Um,
what I mean is if you take a whole bunch of fast responding glucose, right?
Things that get in your bloodstream really quickly, right before you start exercising, insulin starts pulling glucose down, muscle starts pulling it as well.
And so blood glucose actually dips.
This is a like, I had a banana and honey right before I started my race.
And then I got two miles in and I felt like death.
Like, okay, you had two mechanisms at the same time that are independent that are bringing it down and blood glucose actually dips quite a bit until the liver has a chance to kick in and bring it back to normalize.
So you'll feel that response pretty often.
So you got to be really careful with easy digesting carbohydrates right before the event and depending on how long it's going to last.
But those are like rough numbers to start with.
In the exercise itself, the numbers you're going to see here, somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 grams up to 100 grams of carbohydrate per hour, which is...
Like if you want to maximize performance, you'll see the data will show you like 80 plus, 80 to 100 grams.
No, now you want the fastest possible.
Oh, you do want the fastest possible.
Because you're in a race, right?
You're moving, right?
This is when the goos and the packs and things hit in.
So you're trying to smash it in there as much as you can.
I actually just had a guy named Jordy Sullivan, a dietician in Australia.
He was just on my podcast and he actually coached a guy named Ned Brockman.
And Ned did a thousand mile race.
On a track.
So he ran on a track for a thousand miles.
I think it took him like 11 or 12 days, something like that to finish.
The sleeping situation.
Sleep on the track, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was just like lay down and crash for a little bit and then get up and just like run again.
And he just kept going.
He, Jordy went through the exact details, exactly what he fed him, the amounts, the type, the concentration.
And when you get into things like that, when Michael's getting ready for this 900 mile hike thing, 60 to 80 to a hundred grams of carbohydrate per hour is awesome in the lab.
And I put you on a bike and you're in my research facility.
Like those are the numbers that work.
When you cross over into humans, you start getting really tired of goo.
don't want to taste sugary drinks anymore.
And so when you get past a couple of hours of exercise, then you actually start really paying attention to texture and flavor profile and mouthfeel because that stuff starts to matter and you can't hit those numbers.
They're just not realistic.
So if you're going to try to do something like this, pick your poison in terms of the carbohydrate source.
This is the fast sugars.
But if you're going to go for more in a couple of hours, you got to really think carefully about, are you sure you're going to like that taste of that for six hours?
Because you probably won't.
Depends on...
It depends on what you had starting with.
So did you feed before or did you not?
That is automatically our context.
If you fed before, then we don't have to worry about as much directly after.
If you're fasted, we've got to worry about more.
The other context we have to pay attention to, again, what's our total caloric intake, what's our carbohydrate intake throughout the day, and when are we going to train again?
Some of our folks, again, training multiple times per day, we are going to go absolutely out of our way to get 100 grams of carbohydrate post-exercise if it's a hard training session.
rough number.
Again, that number scales up and down with physical size and caloric expenditure, things like that.
If you're going to get on a plane and drive and you're going to do something else for the next two days,
Carbohydrate post-exercise, like the amount, doesn't matter.
It's not a big deal.
You're up against a race of replenishment time.
If that matters, you want to, again, look for 100-ish grams of carbohydrate pretty close to finishing.
And unlike protein, timing matters.
The faster you get that carbohydrate in, the faster you will replenish muscle and liver glycogen.
Protein, as you've covered many times, like timing, anabolic window, like not a big deal at all.
But carbohydrates are different.
You got to repeat that performance again soon, faster, more, better.
If you got a lot of time, then your recovery window is plenty, then you're going to be fine.
Well, in that case, actually, that's a great point because it's not only necessarily just about recovering for your next workout, but you actually need to train that system.
So one mistake people make when they do endurance events like that is they will forget to mimic the race in training.
So then when they get into training and they try to do something, they haven't done it before, and their bodies can freak out.
This is when you get a lot of GI distress, when you get a lot of your tapering, and the week before, all of a sudden, your performance is down, and you're like, what's going on?
Well, you're doing something different now than you were doing the last eight weeks.
And so, yeah, I would actually strongly encourage you to treat your practice races differently.
like your real race so do your pre mid post fueling strategies in preparation for that so then when you show up your body's like yep this is exactly what we do this is exactly how we handle people for the super bowl for world championship events for the olympics you try to make those big events where they're so incredibly important and there's so much pressure and stress and that
You wanna make it feel like a normal practice.
This is just what we do.
So while most of you aren't gonna be on that stage, I get it.
When you go run that first 5K, like that's still gonna be a really, you're gonna be really excited and it's gonna feel like that.
Your body is gonna know, wow, this is something I care about.
Or you go and you finally get to surf that wave that you've been wanting to do or whatever the thing is, you go on that hunt that you've been wanting to go after.
the thing you can control the most is making your day feel like you've been training.
It's a normal process.
This is what we do.
This is how we warm up.
This is the thing we take.
The more you can do that, the more consistent a response you're going to have, the more predictable response.
And that way you can check out of those things and let your body just do what it's been ingrained to do.
So yeah, I would definitely recommend that post-carbohydrate for that individual simply for those purposes.
yeah it is it is everything from i bonked what happened i felt flat what we like everything went away what's going on to now i hit the pr like if you play with these things correctly you should feel your best on competition day there's some of our sports that this is not possible because of weight cutting and other dumb things we have to do but for the most part this is the stuff that matters this is the like there's nothing worse than when you pr a week after competition
Like there's just nothing worse, right?
You're like, all right, PR the week before or the week after.
These are little details that make you land on the right day, in the right time, in that one race, that one event.
That's how we help people smash those things.
And they don't just go, well, we're just gonna train kind of hard and we hope that you show up the day and perform.
We wanna take all those questions out of it.
So yeah, it'll make everything from, again, I tanked, I bombed, I failed out to I had my best performance ever.
Oh, man, we're on question one still.
Yeah.
So fair point.
This is that small sliver difference at the end, right?
So again, if we were to look at your, um,
We actually have probably, I don't know, five females right now that we're coaching that are plus around your body size.
So we'll make just equivalents to you and those individuals.
We take both your diets for you and all those different girls that are in different sports.
They're going to be almost identical, right?
So they're going to be heavily focused on vegetables and starches and fruit and all those things.
What would that difference be?
Well, okay.
Some of them post-training might do...
a powdered glucose source.
So we might give them a carbohydrate supplement.
Then we might use a Vitargo or something like that, where it's like a scooped carbohydrate, where you're probably never having that.
You're not having it throughout the day.
You're not having it pre and post your workout.
You don't need 60 grams of carbohydrate that's easily.
So that would be different, right?
But what are they going to have post-workout?
I don't know, watermelon?
Like they're going to have things that you're probably eating too.
Do we have a little more liberty with them?
to add some more grapes sure but you could also probably eat grapes too you would just take something else like out or move it around or you would have more protein when you have the grapes or whatever different strategies we do it's really small the amount of goos and powders and things like that that we're doing we're gonna eat 95 of their calories as whole real food
You got a little bit of supplements on the end and things like that, but we're not going to spend too much time with low quality foods, even for those individuals.
I want them eating real whole healthy foods.
So that is, it's a really small difference, I guess.
So yeah, in some of those situations, but for the most part, your diet and their diets would be very identical.
Yeah, so I would say, I mean, you positioned it pretty well.
Most people will start with protein, lock that thing in, and then you'll play with carbohydrates and fat as a way to adjust overall caloric intake.
And because we know the role of carbohydrates and exercise performance, we will usually go to that second, and then fat gets the third consideration.
Like, okay, fine, whatever calories we have left, we backfill with fat.
And as long as your fat isn't too low...
and it's too low chronically, then you're not going to really run into too many issues with having insufficient amount of intake of fat, dietary fat.
That said, this is something I've changed my tune on a lot.
I come from the classic exercise physiology academic background, and all those people are carbohydrates first, carbohydrates second, third, fourth.
Fat was always shunned.
And I don't think I believe that as much anymore.
Also, we've experienced a lot.
A lot of the people we've worked with, they're fine on moderate to low carbohydrate, even high exercisers, non-athletes, but they train a ton.
You're talking about guys and girls running 60 miles per week, right?
Like real high energy expenditures in terms of performance.
And they're at 100 grams of carbohydrate a day.
They're not eating ketosis at all.
They're not even trying to be, but they just like are fine at 150 grams a day or 200 grams of carbohydrate a day, right?
For 120 to 190 pound like individuals kind of at that, just as some frame of reference for numbers there.
In that case, their fat intakes are way higher and they're fine.
We're not seeing any performance decrements.
They're not having a hard time recovering.
Their sleep isn't going down.
Like sex hormones are fine.
So I actually have just seen enough evidence now anecdotally and empirically being like, I think actually you're fine there.
I think you're okay.
If you're giving yourself, if your endogenous recovery is sufficient, I think you're going to be just fine there.
So what we do with carbohydrates and fat for that person you're describing is we let personal preference drive us a lot, right?
We also will change it just so that you can have some dietary changes.
Like fat tastes delicious.
It's really hard.
It's really bland when you don't get to have a lot of fat in your diet.
So sometimes we'll bring carbohydrate down for a while and let them have more fat if we need to manage calories.
We don't generally see that much for the average person.
We don't see that many consequences performance-wise.
So I don't think most people...
are going to have this huge like, oh my God, I'm not recovering anymore.
If you're doing a normal amount of exercise, I think you're going to be just fine.
I would not support that statement.
I would disagree with that.
This is a great one.
So the term metabolic flexibility has been hijacked.
And the way that it is described now colloquially is not what that phrase ever started to be.
And it's not what that is intended to be.
It's so crazy because metabolic flexibility has got turned into maximizing fat burning.
It's supposed to be metabolic flexibility, which means you have the ability to run the whole gamut.
I get it.
If you pluck the average person off the street, they're probably less likely to be good at burning fat than they are carbohydrate.
So on aggregate, we probably need to get more people better at burning fat.
I'm with you on that one.
But metabolic flexibility is not just maximize fat burning.
Those are not the same thing.
And that's how people will often describe that.
If you go too hard on one side or the other of the equation, you'll see a whole host of adaptations that compromise the ability to do the other things.
That's not metabolic flexibility.
That is still specialization.
You're just specializing in the other side of the equation.
If that's what you want to do, fine.
We're all for it.
But we generally like to see people truly flexible on both sides.
So if you want to go higher fat in your performance because you feel better, you like it, great.
If you can demonstrate no issues, we're all for it.
But if we're doing it for a theoretical idea and you don't actually have information behind that, then we're not going to support those ideas.
So you want to go higher fat?
Great.
We have had some people where we've tinkered around with some number of people actually.
We've tinkered around with different things.
We try a higher fat diet and they actually do perform better.
So we stay with that, right?
Like even independent of any metabolic flexibility data we've got in them, great, we're gonna stay in that.
And then we've had others that are the opposite.
So these are these really long, long duration endurance folks that are out there and they just don't do well when the carbohydrates get low.
And so we have to have room for both of those realities.
Some people will perform better on a higher fat diet for more fat oxidizing, lower intensity things.
And some will just do a lot better on those.
And to finish up the point,
I'm talking about long-duration endurance events that are both fast and slow.
So if you look at, to be ridiculous, like we were talking about Cam earlier, you look at some, Rob, producer, these guys are under two-and-a-half-hour marathon times.
Cam's higher, but Rob's a two-and-a-half-hour.
He's fast.
He's going to be burning, I don't know, I don't have metabolic data on him, but 70% to 80% carbohydrate in the marathon.
So that's a long duration endurance event, but that is not a fat burning event.
That is a carbohydrate game, right?
If you want to run a marathon fast, that is a carbohydrate game.
If you want to run a really, really long one and you don't care about speed, you're still going to burn a boatload of carbohydrates.
But now we can afford to go slower with more fat oxidation.
And so when we say endurance, there's also like another level of question.
It was like, okay, fast endurance or just like endurance for the longterm.
So all of that goes into our calculus of thinking about how we're going to fuel somebody, how we're going to ask them to recover.
To get to the, like to go back a few minutes earlier, Jordy was talking about this with Ned Brockman, like a thousand miles.
He's not giving him fat only.
He's not on an 80% fat.
Like that is his most fat oxidation possible thing you could come up with, a thousand dang miles.
And he's still relying heavily on carbohydrates to get him through.
So I don't know if that actually answers your question, but you can think about like, that's the stuff that we framed against.
Actually, I think the one thing that's kind of interesting here that does get left, the way that we think about metabolic flexibility is more of an innate human skill rather than an exercise performance one, such that I think you all, we all should have the ability to go for six hours and not have any food and still perform cognitively.
You shouldn't be hangry and cranky because you missed lunch, right?
Like that is now you're in the kind of like, you're not super resilient, right?
whether this is a metabolic flexibility issue or not, if that's happening consistently with you, I would say we have some room to grow with metabolic health, likely, right?
You should probably be able to go 24 hours and maintain cognitive function and maintain physical performance.
If you've ever, you've done some fasting, like longer fasting stuff, right?
You should be able to not eat any calories for 24 hours and still exercise, right?
You will not deplete really of very much anything.
If you're the person who is the like, I can't do anything, I skipped lunch or didn't get to breakfast, then I think we have some stuff to do.
But this is more of like you probably are lacking some innate physiological skills that are going to help you in multiple ways.
But past that, the metabolic flexibility thing is, again, not often packaged correctly in my opinion.
There are many things to say about poor understanding of metabolism is how I'll say that.
There is no way to fully metabolize carbohydrate without oxidation.
You just can't, right?
Like you can run through and we can do it.
It's probably not the most interesting thing, but you can't get very far anaerobically with even carbohydrate.
You have to finish that story aerobically.
Does that mean your fuel in the exercise itself is the same as the total net expenditure?
No.
So in the case of Marty's work and higher intensity stuff, yeah, in the actual exercise bout itself, you're going to be well above anaerobic threshold.
You're going to be well above an RER of 1.0, right?
You're going to get really, really high.
In fact, we have seen many times 1.3s, 1.4s, right, for RERs or RQs.
That's mathematically impossible.
1.0 means 100%.
So what you mean is like the carbon dioxide expenditure is so exceeding aerobic or oxidative intake that your numbers get like astronomically high.
So yes, but that said, anything you just burn there that's sitting either in lactate or in pyruvate or some other intermediate form there, it's going to be finished in the mitochondria with oxidation.
You wanna recover faster?
and I'm talking about within the minutes to hours post-exercise, as well as couple of days, now this is an aerobic capacity issue.
That's how you handle these things.
For our athletes that fight in five, five-minute rounds, like in the UFC, or we do 12 rounds in boxing, whatever the case is, there is a huge aerobic component to that.
Huge, despite the fact that they are going as hard as possible.
They are pegged heart rate-wise and other things.
Getting them to recover, especially from session to session,
the morning workout to the evening workout, the higher functioning aerobic capacity we have there, and I don't mean VO2 max per se there.
I truly mean aerobic capacity.
That is a huge component of their ability to recover and to not be completely trashed the next day.
The ones that are really, really smashed anaerobically, like really high...
They can't train as much.
We have to back them off more.
The volume has to be lower.
We have to be really strategic.
We run into injuries more frequently.
We run into just physiologically running into the ground.
Our recovery metrics get lower.
The taper has to be longer.
We have to just make adjustments with calories.
They can't handle as much.
The ones that are higher in aerobic fitness, they can handle things more.
there's consequences of that too, but yeah, that you can pick the highest intensity thing you could possibly do.
And there are still, um, like anaerobic anaerobic is not two different things.
It's the same gear, right?
It's just the top side and bottom side of the same gear.
There's not different units.
They're just, you know, the front side and the backside of it.
So they will always compliment each other.
They're not distinct things.
I mean, look at all of Georgia's work on lactate.
We know these answers now.
This is not a one system.
These are not different systems.
These are just the different side of the same coin.
That's rarely how physiology works.
Yeah.
Right.
We have redundant systems on purpose.
Yeah.
And honestly that comes down though to practicality.
It's just simply because I said earlier, it's just really hard to get 400 grams of protein in a day.
Look at Mike Ormsby's work at a Florida state.
He's done all that pre-bed carbohydrate stuff or protein ingestion stuff.
So it's like 40 grams of protein 30 minutes before bed.
Now, in all that stuff, he hasn't shown these huge, massive benefits to it.
He actually doesn't show any consequences either.
So you don't compromise fat.
You don't gain more fat.
You don't reduce fat oxidation by having this big bowl of protein right before bed.
And so the way he will package that...
is to say, if you're struggling to hit your total protein numbers, this is just another window to get you there.
If your protein numbers are fine, though, there's no added benefit here.
There's no huge win.
And so that just is another example, I think, at this point, when it comes to the protein game, probably what Lane was saying, like, if this is just maybe a way for you to smack in 15 more grams or 20 or 40, then great.
But outside of that, there's no magic benefit.
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that was actually a pretty cool study.
Whole food is always the answer.
That is always our default position.
If we ever have to go to supplements or even supplemental food, like a protein powder or a powdered carbohydrate, that is our second choice.
Full stop right there.
That particular paper and actually set of studies on that
found basically the same thing.
So whole egg versus egg white.
And it turns out potentially we don't, we didn't have mechanisms behind this, but potentially some of the stuff that's in the egg yolk itself was contributing to additional muscle growth, micronutrient wise, vitamin D, right?
Of course.
And like any number of things are in there.
Absolutely.
Right.
Whether those actually were the case, I don't get, we didn't have mechanism on those.
It was just sort of like, why do you think this is happening?
Even when you match it for calories seems to be the case.
Nonetheless, to back out your question, yeah, it's a whole food answer, right?
If we can get there with whole food, and I will say this, we have many of our professional athletes that take almost no supplements.
And they definitely don't supplement protein powder.
Some of them don't like it.
It doesn't sit well with their GI.
You don't have to have protein powder ever.
I can't think of a compelling reason why, outside of practical, you know, easier flavor, taste, whatever.
So protein very specifically...
Whole food.
Muscle growth.
Whole food.
There are other use cases for other supplements and other strategies, but that is our answer.
And I think that paper you're referring to showed the same thing.
Yeah, but you would anticipate it to be slight.
Like how much of a benefit would a couple of egg yolks a day plausibly give a healthy person?
It shouldn't be much.
Had those data come back and it was more than that, I would have been like,
okay how we're like well i don't know we don't have this and so you just start making again as you mentioned choline and you start making like well plausible this and then you make plausibly that and then plausibly that and like you're trying to run well there's also some omega-3s in eggs and you might think well the cell membranes now maybe the transporters are getting more leucine in who knows
Never.
little extra motivation to say yeah go for the whole foods go for the whole foods you know i have had a love hate relationship with those things as well spent many decades like smashing many scoops of protein powder a day and then probably went a decade or more with like almost no protein powder now i'm back on a little bit more for for other reasons like they're getting better with some of those things
But if you're asking me what I'd rather do, have a candy bar or have a piece of whole food, I'm always going to take the whole food for preference, just flavor preferences.
I like eating food more than I like supplements.
Well, I'll answer this two ways.
I'll be short.
I actually think it's an interesting question.
I don't think people spend a lot of time studying.
I'm open to the possibility that there is way more important in different timing scenarios than we think, but that people just have not done that work.
So that's an open-ended question that's never been there.
The other way I'll say it is,
Because of that, I guess, yeah, I just don't feel like at this point we have any compelling reason to think that it is a critical thing to pay attention to in terms of timing and stuff relative there.
If you just think about plausibly what these different fueling sources are intending to do, it makes sense that fat is probably the thing you should be third concerned about.
You have backup stores of it already.
It can be mobilized when you ingest it or you're using your endogenous fat.
It still happens at roughly the same rate.
So on and so forth.
So with all that, I think that's our answer.
But I'm open.
I'm open to other things.
Yeah, this is actually a whole category of questions that are super interesting.
We grew up in the same nutritional generation,
Low fat, low fat, low fat.
And then we saw those consequences.
Okay, if you are really low fat for a long time, there are a cataclysm of problems that can happen with that, especially if you're combining that on top of hypochlorism.
Endocrine disruptions, sleep disruptions, probably long-term health disruptions in many areas.
It's going to be a huge issue.
What does low mean?
I don't think we have a great definitive number on that, but if it's less than 10% of your calories, again, combined with hypochloric for a long period of time, then you're probably running into all kinds of issues from cell membrane.
You don't have the basic building blocks to keep cells together to the other ones, endocrine health, organ health, transporter health, storage health.
It has so many roles in our body.
So you want to stay away from those things.
Now, past that,
In terms of fat quality, boy, how inflamed... Your audience is probably a little bit better, but how mad do you want the internet to get mad at these following statements, right?
I know it matters to you.
You've been clear in your career of how you approach things, but there's just not a lot of compelling evidence that whole fat...
itself can be disregarded as always healthy or always bad right so animal fat vegetable fats seed oils right we'll throw it out there hmm when managed under all appropriate situations we're okay here like we're really just okay you're fine we're gonna handle these things
But you go exaggerating any one of those areas, you're going to run into problems, right?
So if you're eating copious amounts of saturated fat and combining that with low physical activity, hyperchlorism, you're going to have problems.
Same thing with seed oils, right?
You cook them, you process them, you do all those things, you combine them, you're going to run into problems there too.
So what does a quality fat mean?
I always default back to the same thing.
I don't want to eat anything that's processed.
I don't care, animal, plant, you pick it.
I'm trying to eat whole food versions of everything.
And that is true for my carbohydrates, my proteins, and my fat.
So we don't approach the fats that differently.
So I don't deal with it that much because rarely are we going out of our way to give people processed foods, processed fats included.
So when we're eating processed,
For most of our people, they eat animal sources, right?
So we're going to be getting fats from animals in a reasonable amount, and we're paying attention to those other factors, vegetables, protein, whole foods.
So because of that, animal fat just doesn't come in huge quantities.
We don't have the physical space.
It comes in a normal amount, and we're okay.
At the same time, we're not having to be so guarded against seed oils because we're not consuming most foods that come with seed oils.
We don't have to worry about that.
Right, it's the company.
It's the company, right?
Things are not critically...
I know some people get so fired up about it.
If it's in a whole food, we have no issue with it, right?
You have to be a little bit careful with exogenous oils just because, as you're aware, like caloric intake just gets really, really high there.
But do we have our people eat nuts?
Yeah, avocados, yes.
Like all of the above.
Whole foods are almost always going to be on our list.
You just be careful with additives.
you put something into an oil and low quality in the sunlight, it, you know, fill in the blank there.
Same thing with nuts, right?
Those can come in low quality as well.
So we always try to get those things in the appropriate standards and then we don't have any issues past that.
So I don't know how much we've successfully dodged or didn't dodge any landmines on that one, but man, I just don't have a lot of aptitude for the conversation.
Thank you for saying that rather than, so I didn't have to say it.
That's one kind way to put it, but my goodness, people.
That's a great way to put it.
There's a lot of emotions involved.
So micronutrients, vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals.
If you're doing your job with nutrition, those things are mostly taken care of.
If you're eating the variety of the foods, the type of foods that we've been talking about, the big basic stuff, you're in a really good spot.
Now, do we need to go on top of those things and supplement particular vitamins, minerals, nutrients?
Context dependent here.
Magnesium is the one that jumps off, of course, as the one where...
If our food quality sources were, I don't want to say how they used to be or what we would like them to be, and we had adequate amounts of those in our food, then we would literally just not have to worry about supplements at all.
But that's not always the case.
So because of that, you can look and you'll see all kinds of numbers about things like magnesium deficiencies, whether that's clinical deficient, subclinical, or just suboptimal.
I don't know, some, some papers, 40% of people, some people, 60%, like those numbers can get really, really high.
When you look at athletes because of caloric expenditure and because of sweat and because of how much tissue breakdown that's happening through many, like then the needs are even higher with them.
So I would say magnesium is a supplement.
comes in probably 90% of the people we work with.
It's really, really, really common for us to add magnesium as a supplement.
We try to add higher magnesium bioavailable foods more.
That is our starting place, but we're probably going to add supplements on top of that in addition because it's just hard to get there.
You got to be careful with this a little bit though because
If you were to look at your magnesium levels in like a classic blood draw, that's a terrible place to look.
The magnesium that comes on your blood work that you get is not an indicative of all of what's actually happening in your body.
The vast majority of it's going to be stored in bone anyways, and it's super transient.
Now there's good information you can get there, and there's other ways you can look at it, markers of it.
But I always like to flag that because people get really freaked out.
They go in for blood work for whatever reason, they see that, and they're like, oh, I'm super high, I don't need it.
Like that's not a good way to interpret your overall magnesium status.
We can talk more about that.
But in general, because of those things, we end up adding magnesium as one of our top line micronutrients to pay attention to.
So I'll go on for more, but I'll stop on magnesium if you want to talk more about that.
I know you're a fan.
Magnesium source is different.
Back when we were kids, you had to be really on top of this because of ineffective forms of magnesium and because of GI distress.
Most supplement companies have cleaned that up.
So now you can look at bisglycinate is a really common one.
That is fine.
Citrate's fine.
Obviously, 3 and 8s become more popular now.
Any of those are generally okay.
It's the old forms, the oxidase, the different ones like that that you really had to be careful of.
But you're generally okay there.
They've also, in large part...
dose these things so that GI distress is not huge anymore.
So this is actually something we would pay a lot of attention to way back in the day.
But for the most part, you're okay as long as your dosage is reasonable.
If it is giving you problems, then you can go down a little bit or you can try a different form.
But we haven't seen huge differences between various forms.
They're all basically getting to the same spot.
So like most of our people coming in,
The closest accuracy you can look at is, it's not uncommon for us to see people below 250 in terms of their intake.
So like you said, 320, 400.
Yeah.
So we actually have generally found our non-athlete, our normal people population is generally higher with magnesium intake.
Our athletes tend to be lower.
That's a little bit of, well, that's a lot of selection bias.
Someone's coming into work with me.
They're probably pretty health conscious.
They're eating more meat, less greens.
The athletes are not like always health conscious.
So it's a little section of ice.
Yeah.
But like really common.
I'm like so much.
So to be candid, I barely look at it anymore.
Cause I'm like, I just know, I assume you're going to be low until you prove, prove otherwise.
But yeah, the forms of it.
Um, yeah.
No, most aren't actually, surprising enough.
Most are not taking with it.
Standard dosages, if you look at the big high quality brands, 150, 200, something like that in that range, right?
That's going to usually take a scoop, a scoop and a half.
If it's a powder, three pills, caps, if it's capsule, like something like that.
So those would be sort of our starter dosages.
We have gone double that plenty of times.
Again, context, we deal with many 300-plus pound people.
So when we're doubling it, I'm not doubling it for the 100 and nothing pound individual.
So we can get high there.
The only real drawback, in general, as you know, when you start tinkering with vitamins...
you have a range of like, okay, not a big deal to like really big deal.
Phytochemicals, antioxidants, same thing.
Minerals are different.
You got to be careful with rocks, right?
Magnesium though is pretty inert.
It's okay.
You start tinkering with iron, you got to really be paying attention.
You start tinkering with other rocks, you got to really understand.
But magnesium seems to be like pretty okay.
Like the worst thing we're going to deal with is GI distress.
And as I talked about, like most people are okay now.
It's not a big deal.
So I'm not super concerned with going a little bit aggressive with magnesium.
Because of that, because we also are asking so much of them in other areas of performance or movement.
It's one I'm saying, like, don't worry a ton about the dosage on that one.
If you're a little bit high, you want to go a little more aggressive.
I'm fine with that.
We will see some people respond very well in terms of physical recovery.
Totally subjective.
They feel like their legs are not a sore anymore or they're not getting as much.
I don't know if that's actually happening.
Totally honestly, I don't know.
We will see pretty pronounced improvements in a bunch of sleep metrics though.
That seems to be, and that's all very objective.
Like our sleep technology is incredibly advanced that we use.
It's not just like a consumer wearable.
And so we have a ton of metrics we can look at there.
And that one seems to be a really clear jumping off point.
And it doesn't seem to matter which form we use.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not surprised.
No, I mean, there's been actually probably two or three papers in the last six months on 3 and 8 specifically.
We're finally starting to get human trials.
Need more work.
But we haven't noticed a big difference between forms.
Most people are on 3 and 8 right now, but not a big deal for us.
Have you seen the data on omega index in professional athletes?
No.
I think, don't quote me here, but you'll make the point.
I think that the NBA data was like 50% or below 5%.
It's stark.
The low five.
Yeah, it's just like- It's very low.
Stunningly low, right?
Nobody's at 15.
It's just like, you just don't get it, right?
The numbers might even be higher.
It's outrageous.
So yeah, magnesium is a pretty big staple.
And unless we have strong contraindication, pretty much everyone's going to be getting omega-3 as well.
I know, again, another, we'll throw it out there.
Yes, I saw the AFib.
paper, like everybody's aware of the omega-3 and heart palpitations, great.
If you are a cardiologist, you can treat that however you'd like.
If you're concerned about it, work with your cardiologist, do whatever you want.
But outside of that, there is so much other information, so much benefit, so many rationale reasons for omega-3s that we use it very consistently.
We always start food first, blah, blah, blah, all the things.
But because of that,
A moderate to low dose of omega-3, pretty safe place to go.
It's ridiculous.
Man, I got torched for that recently.
Really?
Yeah, I was talking about it somewhere.
People flew off the handle.
I'm like, my God.
Like you have to pay attention past line, the top line.
You do.
Look at the absolute effect.
There's also like just, look, humans are weird.
You can't pick a exercise, a supplement, a nutrition thing that we've ever done where somebody of the 7 billion of us won't throw their hand up and go, oh, I did that and I had this crazy negative response.
Right.
Like, yeah.
Yes.
Like, totally happens.
And I believe you.
I trust you.
I can't explain it.
Right.
Physiology is wild.
There's nuance here.
Yeah, look, you'll see a cornucopia of things like this.
When you take people, I would assume, I don't know...
his population database in that trial, but I would assume it's fairly inactive, unhealthy people.
Women, young women.
Okay.
The only reason I'm saying that is you just seems to see these type of crazy things happen when you go from like somewhat suboptimal to poor health and you just get them back to baseline.
Wild stuff just starts happening like this.
I have no idea.
We could probably get a whiteboard out and start tossing up mechanisms, figure out what's possibly happening there.
But you could infer this, okay, a healthier cell membrane probably then can do a bunch of things that it was trying to do, but wasn't healthy enough to do, however we want to determine healthy, and now it can.
Could it be a reactionary response?
Could it be all these things?
Yeah, awesome.
That is quite different than going from already pretty healthy
So I would imagine that case, if you take people who are already pretty healthy into the same thing, you wouldn't see as much of a response.
But that goes to the point of saying, okay, now given the fact we know most people are not already pretty healthy.
These were healthy women.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, yeah, I don't, I don't think, I don't think I've spent a ton of time outside of the obnoxious, again, going from deficient, super low, just back to a standard number, going from good to high.
Uh, no, I don't, I don't think I have anything super...
Yeah, of course.
Right.
Like how, how's that not going to be on the top of everyone's one?
The way that we would think about supplements in general is number one,
Remove, reduce, try to eliminate any physiological insufficiency, whether that is coming because of caloric restriction.
So we have dealt with a lot of people, whether this is, again, as our athletes or non-athletes, where caloric restriction is a thing.
And I'm saying that because that's why supplements tend to be helpful.
I would prefer you to get all your stuff from food.
But when food is limited for a bunch of different reasons, now we can use supplements to backfill vitamins, nutrients, minerals, and a bunch of other stuff.
That is our top line performance enhancement.
When your physiology is in a healthier spot, it will perform better.
So we can get into beta alanine and other things for sure.
But that's really important for me to state because that is where we have actually seen by far the most enhancements in performance and recovery and sleep and cognitive function, you name it.
It's by just making sure we call them performance anchors.
You don't have any anchor behind you.
Nothing's just like dragging your physiology down.
We get that thing solved, get it up back to normal.
And then for the most part, I want to step away.
Like I want to let your physiology just run how it wants to run.
But if we have big holes, we plug them first.
Whether you want to pick your metric is, again, recovery, muscle growth, testosterone levels, like pick your thing that's going to get your brain most excited.
That's where we see the most impact, like by a landslide.
If your house is cleaned up there, now we can get into creatine, beta alanines.
You can get into fatigue blockers.
You can get into stimulants.
You can do a whole bunch of things like that.
Adaptogens.
There's a whole host of things we can cover there.
But that part of the equation is where all of you will most likely see your biggest benefits.
Yeah, we do this actually quite differently.
We spend a lot of time
on a bunch of biomarkers.
So we take a ton of blood, a ton of urine, stool, and saliva, and we get really precise with vitamin, mineral, nutrient recommendations.
It's hard to get into that on a podcast without exact examples, but that's where we get.
So yeah, we can start off with general recommendations, but being precise to physiology, we're able to paint pretty good molecular portraits of people and figure out what's happening with them over time and then get really specific with recommendations.
Past that, then, is when we get in, like, our direct performance enhancement.
So, like, that's how we handle that equation.
Yep.
And vitamin D is a good example.
It's also one where...
I feel pretty good with you just taking vitamin D without a test.
I ain't tripping if you're just like, hey, I want to take vitamin D. Like, all right, I'm probably cool.
Like, what's the worst that's going to happen?
Not much.
Very limited downside.
Strong likelihood you're low.
Even if you're not low, very little harm here.
So there's most of the things we've talked about, you don't need any test at all to go do.
Some things I'm going to say, hey, like, we want to see actual markers on this before we start tinkering with that.
Like minerals in particular.
A lot of them can become low iron and reds like reds are really common thing to pay attention to.
So this is a concern you have with relative energy deficiency.
So if you're not only combining being female as well as a lot of caloric expenditure and calories are moderate to low.
Then we have all kinds of problems we have to pay attention to there.
So there's just a whole bunch of other factors that go into that.
Iron gets really complicated really fast.
So maybe we can come back to that one on a different day.
Okay.
So there is a thing that we will talk about for many decades now called heel strike hemolysis.
This is exactly what it sounds like.
If you run a lot and your feet smash the ground, when your blood is going past the bottom of your foot, just normal blood moving through your body, and that blood is between your foot and the ground and then you smash it, you will smash your red blood cells.
We see this in our combat athletes, right?
So you have physical things hitting your body.
You will physically smash those red blood cells.
You will smash that iron.
And so, yeah, it's not just menstruation.
It's not just breaking down of tissue.
You will actually physically smash your own red blood cells.
So it is a huge concern for not just females, but young, old.
It's a whole thing.
Iron is also insanely related to sleep quality.
So you will see numbers go all over the board when you are having splinted contractions that night because you're having mild sleep apnea or other disturbances.
So the numbers that you're paying attention to there, they really throw people for a loop when their blood work.
So you got to be really careful and pay attention to that.
And as I said, that's not an innocuous supplement.
You can't just smash it and just be like, oh, I'll just take some more.
Not a good idea at all.
A bunch of ones.
Yeah, I would say that there's probably...
at least seven markers that we would pay attention to before we're really, truly understanding what's happening with your overall iron status, everything from hematocrit to hemoglobin, um, ferritin, of course.
Uh, but then you have even like red blood cell magnesium concentrations.
And, uh, there, there,
maybe probably closer to 10, actually, I would pay attention to.
Mean corpuscular volume.
There's a bunch of different things that we would look at.
So yeah, we'll come back to that one just because I'm stopping myself from going.
It's going to be a 40 minute part right now.
Because it's good.
The reason why I don't want to do it right now is you can't get your toes deep in this without just making more confusion than not.
Sure.
I wouldn't, I would be skeptical on that one.
Caffeine works.
No question about it.
It works as an ergogenic benefit.
You will perform oftentimes better.
So there you go, right?
Like if you burn more calories, train harder, went faster, yeah.
Now, will it have a lipolytic effect?
Yeah.
You take it right now, you will see free fatty acids go up in your blood.
That will happen.
You don't do anything with it, they will be restored and placed right back in their position.
So if you look at the research on even fat burners,
you're not gonna really significantly aid in fat loss, right?
Stimulants, caffeine, combinations of them, they are an acute effect.
If they are used then to train better, more frequently, more motivation, work harder, great.
Sometimes they have an appetite suppressant effect as well.
but that's how they're getting to any substantive fat loss rather than the actual mechanism itself.
Yeah.
I mean, typical doses you're going to look at something like most is 150 to 400 milligrams ish on those things.
We way back in the day, people were tinkering with like 10 grams per kilogram, milligrams per kilogram.
So you're getting really high dosages and you're like, you're in these trials and you're just sitting there and you're like, your head is going to explode.
Like these numbers are outrageous.
Four to five milligrams.
is like more of a standard one now, which is going to equate to that, you know, like two, 300, 400 total milligrams, depending on your body size, you start crossing past like 500 milligrams caffeine.
And like, you might have an existential event, like you're going to be like, what is happening?
And I just remember sitting there with other students and stuff, just being like, I just want this to be over with.
You just do not feel good at those high dosages at all.
Okay, so that's actually, there's a lot of conflicting research as well on adaptation.
So there used to be this idea that you want to desensitize yourself to caffeine.
So even if you're a normal habitual caffeine user, let's just say an average dose of caffeine in a, say a coffee or an espresso is 200 milligrams, right?
Like whatever tea is less and you get the idea.
So if you say you do two of those a day and you're like a three to 400 milligram per day user, you would come off of it entirely for a day or five days or something like that.
And then you would reintroduce it and you would have this like super response.
You will feel that.
But the question was, is that actually then doing anything for performance?
People would do this in like the powerlifting and weightlifting worlds and even in the endurance worlds for a long time.
but there's more recent data that suggests that it probably doesn't matter.
There doesn't seem to be a correlation.
Well, it doesn't seem to be a hundred percent crossover between your perception, your personal stimulation of it and the performance benefits.
Those seem to be disentangled quite a bit.
So even if you're normally at 400 milligrams a day, and then you take your normal 400 milligram dose and you don't feel anything different, you might still have those performance benefits.
You don't have to feel like you're, you know, like super stimulated or,
to get that thing.
So those data have changed over the years, right?
It's gone back and forth.
This is like, it has to be novel or now it looks like it doesn't really matter that much.
So that game of like, do you run a resensitize or desensitize yourself?
I leave it up to people, whatever you want to do.
Generally, we don't worry about it, but it seems to be the performance benefit.
So how would you know if your performance is getting better?
We just have to have some objective marker of,
performance?
Like, are you lifting?
Are you running?
Like, what are you doing?
Are you?
Are you either going more?
Well, the two ways we would typically do this in the lab is like a time trial.
right?
Or maximum performance.
Like, so you can play the game.
So you can say, we're going to lock this in at 30 minutes and say, how much work can you get done in 30 minutes?
Oh, you got more work done this time than you did without the caffeine or the opposite.
We're going to run a 5k and does your time get better?
Like those are the kind of like the two ways to pay attention to it.
And you'll generally see benefit in both of those scenarios.
Yep.
You'll see that.
like pretty consistently, you'll see that actually even with muscle growth.
So intentional playing of music generally will give you a small benefit in muscle growth.
Mechanism there being obvious, like you probably are happier, you're probably training more, probably training harder.
The type of music doesn't seem to matter.
that much seems to be pretty independent whatever you want like you want death metal cool you want to play jazz cool really it doesn't seem to matter that much it doesn't have to be the only thing you'll kind of see here is tempo generally higher tempo better like you don't want to be down slow i don't know like what those beats would be actually but anyways pastor higher tempo stuff would would uh generally be what you're looking at we actually ran a study in my lab years ago
Or we had professional drummers come in.
This is totally unrelated.
But we ran a bunch of metabolic equivalents.
We put them on a metabolic cart and looked at VO2 max during drumming of a bunch of different songs and things like that and looked at the caloric expenditure.
But yeah, nonetheless, music, pretty good idea for most people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rhodiola has been around for a long time.
I've probably been using it
know at least a decade or more it was always hard to get and you were like scared of where you're going to get it from kind of thing you don't really know now we have enough data on it there's quality providers NSF certified places and such um
More research is coming out muscle endurance in terms of like how many repetitions can you do of a, you know, 30 reps versus 35 reps, like that kind of muscular endurance.
And then we're seeing benefits.
Otherwise, Andrew talks a lot about like he feels cognitive stuff from it.
I don't really personally there, but to each their own.
How's it working?
Nobody knows.
We don't really have, outside of like stuff in yeast and I think there's some fruit fly data, there's not a lot of mechanism here.
I could guess.
I could spout out.
What is it?
Both, right?
So you have both of those effects.
But the only little bit of mechanism data is maybe cortisol, right?
Maybe something HPA access, maybe dopamine, maybe serotonin, like something's happening here.
What you will generally see is if you look at markers like heart rate variability,
What will often happen with rhodiola is the same dose of high intensity exercise when you use rhodiola will not drive HRV as much.
That's why we say it's like an adaptogen.
That's why it mitigates the stress response.
I have not seen any evidence that rhodiola would do something like improve baseline resting HRV over time.
So it's not like a recovery agent, but it seems to make harder, higher intensity exposure things not as damaging without compromising performance.
Correct.
In fact, some data have indicated that, but most of the research suggests actual performance enhancements from it.
We're just now, with the cortisol and stuff, we're speculating.
Because at some point, if you actually block cortisol response, then you actually inhibit stimuli, which you don't want.
So our hands are up in the air.
I haven't seen anybody really do a lot of human trials in figuring out definitive mechanisms.
That too.
But yeah.
Always.
But most products are going to be something like, I think 150 or so is like a...
reasonable starting point.
I haven't really seen, like we've tinkered with really high ones.
There's some, some people I think have done like 800 milligrams, like way up there.
All at once?
Like one dose?
Yeah, yeah.
Um, I'm not gonna lie to you and say we haven't tried that too.
No, no, no.
So you don't feel like.
No.
Yeah, no.
Great question.
It's not a, um, yeah, not, not a stimulant like that.
We actually haven't seen any like changes in sleep or anything like that.
I will always take it in the morning personally, if I'm going to use it at all.
And we generally come in the morning just in case.
But no, not a stimulant in that sake at all.
It's generally, again, the way to think about it is, if I already put you in a placebo-controlled right now and gave it to you,
You wouldn't know.
I don't think you'd feel like, if I gave you beta alanine, if I gave you caffeine, you'd be like, whoa, you know there?
But we could blind you to rhododendron almost surely, and you wouldn't know it.
Yeah, we will use it chronically.
Okay.
Yeah, but again, we're speculating here because we don't know where we have mechanism.
We understand at least roughly how a beta alanine or sodium bicarbonate are working or caffeine.
I don't actually know.
So I should back up.
I don't know the answer to your question.
We are not super worried about it that you have it right before your workout.
I guess it's plausible that we should, but we're not, yeah.
Yeah, I think that is a pretty good place where you would likely to see some benefit there.
That would be a good place to try.
Yeah.
Talk about what it's doing.
Sure.
There's actually a lot of research.
right andy jones uh has done so much stuff here um he's done a ton of work on it and there's a lot like you're talking about a solid decade and more in lots of populations lots of different stuff so it is really well studied it's funny you bring it up because it it gets no love like people don't talk about it that much despite it's not a small amount of research here if you want to especially stack up like rhodiola to be like you have a mountain to go on with beetroot juice and you have a pebble like on rhodiola
We like it.
We use it a lot.
I've used a ton of different forms over the years.
It's great because it is not a stimulant.
So you can take it in the evenings and it doesn't compromise sleep at all.
We will all use it a lot for our individuals who are either exercising at night or training multiple times per day.
And their stimulants come in the morning, but they still have high fatigue.
And so they want to use it in the evening.
So that is our common use case.
You see it a lot in the endurance world, particularly the steady state endurance world.
So cycling, swimming, running, things like that.
You're talking about nitric oxide.
This is a vasodilator.
You're going to open up blood flow.
You will feel it.
If I were to put you in that blind test right now and I gave you any of those forms you mentioned, you will be like, whoa, something just happened.
There's no blinding to those studies.
It will.
Yeah.
I don't like it.
You're going to have the same answer for basically all the above.
There will be noticeable effects.
There are differences between all three of those.
If you were to take literally beetroot juice and concentrate it into like a three ounce shot, you could see the same stuff here.
Most of the time with like citrulline and arginine though, you're getting really high concentrations.
I don't know typical dosage of those off the top of my head, to be honest.
But what you're going to normally see there is a very pronounced stimulant effect.
Like it's not going to be caffeine, but you're going to be like whoop.
especially citrulline.
Like you're going to see that right now.
Um, you will see if you go to the gym and you take any of those forms, particularly like the Argentines have fallen out of favor.
Like they're not as popular anymore for a host of reasons.
But even the beetroot stuff, like you will see a pump, a physical pump.
Like you will see.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Does it matter?
We use extract more.
You could make a compelling argument, though, that juice is better.
you could do that.
So it kind of depends on multiple parts of that equation.
We use the powder though for a bunch of different reasons.
A lot of them are practical.
A lot of them are travel related, right?
You don't want to take a whole bunch of juice with you in your airplane and you're flying all around to different places and you're just like, all right, I can take the powdered supplement.
It lasts longer, shelf stable.
If we're talking about like antioxidant, polyphenol properties, but we know we're losing them in the powder.
Like we're probably losing some of that relative to the juice.
Okay.
But then we're going to backfill that with whole foods and other things there.
So lots of research on both of those.
I would say,
A lot of people would prefer juice, I think is a fair thing to say, but I'm not fully against powders.
You can... If you put a scoop in there right now, you would know that you did it.
There's no question.
So you can take it... You're talking about, I don't know, five minutes to take effect?
Like, it happens fast.
Like, really... Like caffeine.
Like, you're going to have a pretty acute effect of it.
And it will last... I think you can think of it like caffeine.
It will last probably...
three hours ish.
Some people are going to metabolize it faster.
Some people are sorry.
So it is not a, it's not a short lasting thing.
It'll be there for quite some time.
Um, so if you're going to use it for performance benefits, whether that's in the podcast room or in the weight room or dealing with the assembly at your kid's school or whatever thing you got to get through, uh, yeah, right before would be the time to go about it.
Um, we will sometimes use it hours before exercise when we have, uh,
high fatigue, high motivation issues, right?
So you start having these associations.
Let's say, for example, we have somebody training at like 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
And at 2 o'clock, this is when we start having problems with like, am I going to train today?
Am I not?
Or whatever.
All right, let's give them a little hit right there.
And we don't want to go to caffeine.
We don't want to go to other stimulants like that.
So we'll simply use it as like an afternoon pick-me-up, if you will, for even on a non-exercising day.
if we're trying, especially if we're trying to get caffeine out of somebody's equation or lower it in the afternoon.
So we use it then as just simply like a, okay, motivation's back up, I'm feeling good again, and I'm ready to go.
You'll feel it.
This is nitric oxide, right?
Right.
So this is your primary health concern is going to be anything related to blood pressure.
So you handle those equations.
Our downside, GI.
Like GI distress is going to 100% be there.
With beetroot or with citrulline?
All of the above, particularly the beetroot.
The juice there.
If you eat beets and you forget and then you go to the bathroom,
So that's the part where you're like, oh, people can freak out and they forget that they took it or they don't know why.
So you can have things like that.
But as long as they're not GI issues, very minimal concerns outside of if you have, again, medical conditions that you got to pay attention to.
Beetroot.
Why?
Yeah, generally we're going to be there.
Issues, issues is a strong word.
The slight things we've had to consider with citrulline is power.
Like it's just too powerful for some people.
They're just way like, whoa, like this is too much for me.
I don't like it.
I don't feel it.
So you can titrate those dosages down.
The other, again, issues is the wrong word.
Issues too strong.
But the other like little bit of like, eh, we've had is, why can't I just get this out of close, something closer to whole food?
Okay.
So if that is your preference, then we can go back up a little bit to beet or beetroot juice.
But that's not a strong argument.
Probably like 15 years ago, I had a friend who, you know, actually you met before.
Who did this?
And he would blend beets, like in a blender.
Like you could call it a smoothie, but he would like juice it and blend it and he would do a combination.
It was probably like eight to 10 whole beets he would consume pre-workout.
And he did it about three times, I think.
And two of the three times he just threw up everywhere.
And then he's like red blood.
You can.
It's a dosage issue though.
Will you get a small benefit?
I can't.
I've never personally felt like a blood flow benefit from eating a bunch of beets.
Personally, some people say that they do, but you wouldn't get the dosage.
That's why they're juiced.
That's why they're concentrated.
Okay, so you're probably pretty aware of nitric oxide metabolism.
You can't just consume nitric oxide.
Nitrite, nitrate, like immediately, like you're toast, right?
So then the argument is, oh, can we go back up the chain?
Like, can we go up to arginine?
Can we go back up the thing?
So the first stop on that train was arginine.
And then the issue you're going to fall out there, which is almost always the case with supplementation, was bioavailability.
Like, how can we just get enough of it?
And that one just seemed to fail.
It just seemed to get better once we started going there.
And then there's other concerns, cold sores and things like that that started popping up that people were, like, not super stoked about.
And so citrulline seems to be the better approach to that right now.
That's the short version.
Trying to do what you can do.
It's fantastic.
I love it.
Yeah, but you're getting jacked.
I love it.
It's functional.
It's been around for a really long time.
Really simple strategy with this one.
So enzymes work in a certain pH range, right?
If you come too acidic inside of a muscle, we have a hard time running any metabolic process.
Aerobic, anaerobic, strength, it doesn't really matter, right?
Contracting muscle power, we start running into acidic environment, we start running into problems.
So enter then a whole cascade of supplements designed to buffer fatigue, which is a way to say like, let's keep you within that acidic range.
Now you can do this by starting off more alkaline, or you can just do this by putting intermediators in there that say like, we're just going to keep you within that certain range so you don't get too high.
Beta alanine was a great stop on that because we're looking at intracellular carnosine.
That's what we're trying to do, right?
So he's like saying, hey, this is our limiting factor, beta alanine being the amino acid limiting factor.
So if we can give you more of that, you can build up more carnosine, then we can buffer more effectively.
And it works.
There's a good amount of research on it.
It worked for the things that you would anticipate it working for.
Doesn't do much for maximal strength.
Doesn't do much for speed or power.
Doesn't do a lot for long duration endurance.
Though, again, you can see some positive benefits there.
Where it mostly works are things of really high intensity.
And by that, I mean cardiovascular intensity, right?
So high intensity of strength training, again, I just said not super relevant because you're doing two reps.
Acidic is not the problem there.
So beta alanine is something that you would take chronically.
You will feel an acute effect, certainly at somewhat of a higher dose, but you need three to five weeks for this to build up intracellularly before it makes a difference.
And so much like caffeine, or creatine rather, unlike caffeine, this takes a while for you to dose it.
So you can do a bunch of things to mitigate that, but you will see a pretty classic effect
that CrossFit would be a great example.
Like you couldn't, basically couldn't engineer a supplement better for acute or for CrossFit performance outside of beta alanine.
And as I mentioned, it's been around a really long time.
It's just an amino acid.
It's not a stimulant.
It won't affect energy.
You can take it right now.
And again, like you wouldn't notice, you wouldn't be like, oh, I'm fired up and ready to go.
You wouldn't feel anything different, but you would just feel the burn is not as bad as your training.
Man, I'm blanking on dosage right now, to be honest with you.
Back in the day, we would say this is an iosine dump.
But that doesn't seem to be the case.
There's actually a couple of papers that came out
it seems to be something to do with sensory input.
So there, there's some sort of sensory receptors that are being clicked on and tingled.
And it kind of feels like a fire.
It feels like you're itching.
It feels like you rolled around in grass a bunch, right?
Don't tell anybody this.
We would, we would give people beta alanine a bunch, like our friends as a joke.
And they're like not paying attention.
So you like put some, like we were younger.
So you're like sitting there doing work, whatever.
All of a sudden you just like start itching everywhere.
You're like, what the fuck?
We would do this a bunch.
I did this to my wife one time, actually, and she was like, what is going on?
She's like, something's, yeah.
Not even, like a moderate dose, you'll feel that.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
It'll desensitize super fast.
You can also just back dosage down.
Like you just go down a tiny bit and you'll find that level of like, okay, I feel fine.
And as soon as you start training, it typically goes away.
So 30, 45 minutes before or so, you take it, you'll start feeling those itchy, kind of crawly feels a little bit.
Generally, as soon as you start training, it goes away.
If that's still bothering you, just lower the dosage.
What we'll do a lot of the time, because it's not an acute stimulant, is we'll just split the dosage up throughout the day.
Half the morning, half the night.
Couple grams in the morning, couple grams at night.
That is a general place it will go.
So if the four grams is like...
killing you, or you don't like it, or three is better, then again, split them up throughout the day and they won't have any effect.
So we will do that.
You will develop a little bit of a tolerance to that though.
So this is one of the cases where we actually want to build that dose over time.
So when we get within like eight weeks of competition, we will start strategically increasing that dosage to get that as high as we possibly can, where other things we don't have to worry about dosage going up.
You don't have to cycle it because there's no feedback loop here.
It's just an amino acid.
So there's no, like creatine, like there's no, you're not shutting down any endogenous process by doing it, but we will tend to bring it away just for, if we don't have a particular purpose with supplements, we don't take them.
Like for that purpose alone, we're like, okay, great.
We finished, we competed, we did something.
We're pulling it back down.
So for the people who are not in competitive sports,
We will tend to just use it when we have a bigger priority or we're training really hard.
And so we use it in six to 10 weeks.
And then if you wanna like come off of it, but you don't have to cycle it.
We have some people that are on it permanently and they just don't come off of it.
I haven't seen anything to suggest that you need to pull it away if you don't want.
Super well studied.
I haven't seen, outside of the acute tingling,
I can't say I've seen any like side effects that have been documented that are a problem.
So again, it's amino acids.
It's like pretty, pretty straightforward.
Yeah.
I mean, Darren's published so much in this world.
We don't use the five gram number at all for the most part.
As I've said a couple of times now, it's because we deal with humans that are literally triple the size of each other.
Exactly, right?
Which translates to a lot of people as like three to five grams.
Right.
Where we probably spend more of our time is like seven and a half to 12 and a half grams.
Most of the time.
We'll go as low as three.
No problem there.
Like I'll go five.
No issue there.
You want to use five as a starting place?
Awesome.
Tight trade up from there.
Really no downside of going higher.
So we will like go quite a bit higher quite often.
Darren's actually done some stuff at 20 grams a day.
For years.
So...
As long as you're not getting nauseous, like the number one thing we get, right?
It's just like, I got nauseous.
Okay, great.
So if you're not getting that, we run that train pretty high pretty often.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you mentioned quickly, I think it's probably worth sodium bicarbonate.
Okay.
Same idea, different mechanism, but same idea as beta alanine.
So sodium bicarbonate, you're making yourself more alkaline, right?
That's all you're doing.
So if you don't like beta alanine or don't want to use it or something like that, you can go the sodium bicarbonate route.
You can get that at the cheapest price possible, baking soda.
You can literally do that.
We have done that many, many, many times.
Just take baking soda and put it in water and drink it.
Way, again, many, many years ago, it's a little bit off color, but when we would have to run these studies with sodium bicarbonate, we would have to do it really close to the toilet.
Because this will have a very pronounced acute GI effect on you.
It's like there was many times of wheeling over carts when you have like an IV in somebody or something, you're like, get them over to the toilet.
Not a good situation.
So because of that, most people have modified the delivery mechanisms of sodium bicarbonate, but it does work pretty well.
If you're concerned about that, you're like, that is the least appealing thing I've ever heard in a podcast in my life.
You can just use creams.
Momentous makes PR lotion.
That's exactly what PR lotion is.
It's just a sodium bicarbonate cream.
So this is local.
So if you're using your arms today, you can put it on your arms.
You don't have to put it through your GI tract at all.
You can put it on your quad or whatever you're doing.
So that is the best workaround for the GI tract.
Yeah, sodium.
You're also, you're putting sodium directly intracellular as well as it'll get into, it'll get into blood flow.
It's an acute effect.
Yep.
So you rub it on right before.
You take it right before 30 to 60 minutes before training would be what you're looking for.
It takes some time to get in and get into tissue.
But yeah, this is an acute effect.
And this is definitely something I would generally only use on training days where beta alanine you could take and probably should take on non-training days because it takes a while for that storage to come up.
Creatine, same thing.
If you're going to use a sodium bicarbonate or equivalent, this is only like a pre-workout strategy.
We don't use it.
The closest you'll see is this will come in a lot of pre-workout cocktails.
Yeah.
What do you think of those?
Okay.
Yeah.
I prefer people having least amount of artificial ingredients as possible.
That's our default position, right?
If you want to use a stimulant, we'd rather you use coffee, tea, so on and so forth, right?
If you're going to use a pre-workout combination, the major downsides are we can't control dosage of individual ingredients, right?
For most of our people, that's a problem.
For me as a scientist, I hate it.
I want to know what we're dosing.
We're going to run experiments.
We're going to try things out.
And we have a pre-made cocktail.
I don't have any influence on what we're tinkering with.
I hate it.
I like precision.
I like detail.
I don't like the fact that we have a whole bunch of things coming in that we don't know.
I don't actually know what's in there.
I don't know that they're dosed at that level.
There's all these variables that we don't like.
I'm also not ultra concerned that if somebody really wants to have a fill-in-the-blank drink before they train and that makes them train harder and better, all right, we can live with that.
I can handle that.
If that's your one thing we're dealing with, but if it's up to me, we're not going to use them.
You'll never see me program one of them, ever.
If someone already has it and they're going to fight against it, okay, I might let that slide, but it's never going to come out of my mouth.
If you go too high on caffeine, you'll actually see performance decrements.
Like endurance performance decrements, way high.
Like that stuff, like I said earlier, eight to 10 grams per kilogram, you'll start to see performance come down way high.
That's insane.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah.
So you'd be drinking like six grams.
Of course, you could... Like some people live at that level, so they'll be fine there.
But yeah, that's one of them.
I think what you're probably referring to is things like...
copious and excessive amounts of supplemental antioxidants.
Absolutely.
The lab I was in as a graduate student did some of that original work on acetaminophen and things like that.
So I was around for a lot of those programs.
And then stuff came out on specifically things like vitamin C combined with vitamin E. Vitamin C in general, vitamin E, we want to default to food.
If we can get it from there, we do.
That's where we're looking for all of our nutrients.
Clear evidence, in my opinion, at this point, that antioxidant consumption from food has no detrimental effect on exercise adaptation.
Eat your blueberries to your heart's content, right?
Eat the cherries, eat whatever you want.
Never seen evidence to suggest that with blunt performance.
There is some evidence to suggest, though, when you take those as a supplement, again, a couple of studies that were vitamin C, vitamin E,
That's a great question.
I know.
It's like the hyperpower.
Yeah.
We use vitamin C very judiciously.
not to get us back there, but you start actually looking at iron, what it does when you co-ingest iron with vitamin C. If you're going to go after iron, you probably should bring vitamin C along.
You want to bring in collagen, probably should bring in vitamin C, super lower dosage, like 50 mg, right?
Like way down.
You want to actually start doing anything to prevent someone getting sick when they're traveling.
Again, especially when they're traveling in a six to eight week hypercaloric state and they're going to be on a plane and then they're meeting, greeting and they're fans.
Okay, we're going to go, certainly going to go for any kind of immune support that we can have
I do not hesitate to go to a gram of vitamin C. You can go way up there for three days, five days, seven days, two weeks, whatever the case is.
Not super concerned about that.
We're not going to live at that level.
500 milligrams of vitamin C is a very reasonable dose.
What's actually, what do you think a half-life is on 500 milligrams of caffeine?
I don't even remember the last time we recommended vitamin E to anybody.
So we rarely dose it for all those reasons.
The reason I asked you that half-life question was I was thinking the same thing.
I don't know
I don't know anybody that's actually run any even light trial on timing of vitamin C for exercise adaptations.
So I don't know.
I don't know if you took it later in the day and you train, took it 12 hours away.
I don't know that it would have a different effect.
It may, it could.
To answer your question, here's how we handle vitamin C.
We're not just giving it to people.
It's not like a standard like magnesium or omega-3.
We will use it judiciously in different things.
But I'm also, I'm not worried about it.
If you ask me what am I concerned more about, the small amount of adaptation that I miss versus not being sick, that's an easy exchange for me.
Categorically, here's how we think about it.
Again, athlete or non-athlete, it doesn't actually matter.
There are times when we're trying to induce adaptation.
When we're doing that, we're going to want to let those stress things happen.
And then there's times when we're trying to peak.
We call this optimization versus peaking.
If I'm peaking...
I don't care about adaptation.
I'm trying to maximize performance in the short term.
In that case, we are going way up on antioxidants.
We're going way up on vitamin C. Don't want to get sick.
Want you to feel great.
We want you to perform at your best right now.
If that compromises some adaptation, fine.
I don't care because we're trying to get the max performance right now.
If we're concerned about long-term optimization.
I can't emphasize this enough.
Even in people who are not competing, this is still a thing you should play with throughout the year.
You should have phases of optimization.
You should have phases of adaptation.
You should be pushing this boundary.
If not, you're going to kind of run medium all the time.
And so that's how we will think.
I will have no problem putting it there.
If we have some reason to think somebody is in a really high oxidative state because of really poor nutrition, environmental exposures,
any number of other things, then we might just kind of prophylactically give them vitamin C, probably at 500 milligrams.
I wouldn't be, I'm not worried about that.
I'm not super concerned.
The other thing to pay attention to here is when we say adaptation attenuation, it's not blocking.
It doesn't mean you're getting zero.
It's you're getting 5% less, 10% less, like some amount that matters, but it's not zero.
It's not like absolutely zero.
Oh, I did nothing.
Like, no, it just means you got 90% of where we thought we could have got potentially.
Yes.
Yeah, it can.
It's the same, like you're running a calculus, right?
Like what are we worried about?
Should you take them every day?
Probably not for many reasons.
Not a good approach.
My wife actually just started a new training phase a couple of days ago.
So she added a new, a couple of new exercises she hadn't been doing.
And she tends to do this, just went way too heavy.
So much pain.
She has not been able to move for two days.
Like bad, right?
She's just like, can't move without really, really substantial amount.
I couldn't make my heart happier.
Like I love hearing her in physical pain, just makes my joy there.
Cause she's not like hurt, you know, she's just like, oh my God.
The kids are just terrorizing her, just like wanting to play with mom.
And she's just like, everything hurts on my body.
Yeah, we're like, she's using a lot of NSAIDs, right?
Like there's no win here.
There's no positive benefit.
There's no adaptation we're missing with you being in extraordinary amounts of pain, right?
In those particular cases, when you overshoot it or whatever happens, yeah, use them, no problem.
If that's what you're using just to get through your training, then our training program is probably, or something else in our physiological process is depleting our recovery bucket, and we need to go fix that problem.
So it is something we have to use.
The exceptions there are our athletes, of course.
Like football is really hard sport.
And if you got to take it to get through a football week, cause that's your job, then like, that's what we're going to do.
And there's some other things there, but for the most people, um, yeah, we're not using them very often.
I like the look on your face, by the way, when I said my wife is in so much pain, it brings my heart joy.
You're like, I'm just like smiling at me at all.
Nothing crazy.
Just like, um, she normally does a bunch of her training at home.
And then she was actually happened to be at a gym where it had some of their equipment and she's able to be like load to load stuff more.
And she was like, just too happy at the moment.
It was like, yeah.
So she's doing some deadlifts, some RDLs.
I think she did some overhead pressing, some lat pulldowns, like not crazy stuff.
Yeah, there's data there.
There's data there to support muscle soreness, muscle damage.
Um, could I, could I make a strong argument that you wouldn't get the same thing if you just had a really high similar food source?
I think you could actually, I don't think there's anything magic to that.
I'm not surprised, right?
If you think about what's in dark, rich colored fruits, polyphenols, right?
Like we know that that's there.
Um, it's the same thing we make when people talk about like blueberries for cognitive performance.
Yeah.
It's also the same probably in strawberries and probably in raspberry.
It's not like magic to the cherry or the blueberry, I don't think.
It is a super high concentration of polyphenols in a bunch of different areas.
That's probably doing most of the work here.
But yeah, you will see that there.
We tinker with it for a few years.
We don't use it very much, honestly.
You're not getting that sore that often.
Yeah.
Again, we don't use it.
Very often.
So I'm probably not the person to make the case for people wanting to go out and try it.
It's cool.
It's fine.
Again, the research is there.
I've seen it.
It's compelling.
You also mentioned sleep.
That's another compelling reason.
So if you're wanting to use kind of a double combo and you like it for sleep, where this is most popular is in the bodybuilding communities.
For those exact reasons.
So I can take it a ton at night.
It'll help me sleep and I'll be a little bit less sore.
I'm kind of getting a double win.
Plausible, probably all the above, right?
And again, that research is actually there.
You'll see it.
And I have seen a lot of people who will anecdotally say, yeah, it helped my sleep a ton.
But again, I probably haven't recommended it and
five years or more.
Like we kind of did it a bunch and okay, great.
We generally don't honestly favor recovery supplements that much.
That's just like probably the bigger answer here is supplements for recovery is not that great.
Yeah, you can do that.
So we will use glutamine conditional amino acid, right?
So in our populations, when amino acid need is really high, again, you're combining it with caloric reduction and you don't have that much room to go like, I just can't give you more food.
I can't give you more chicken breasts.
I can't give you more turkey or elk or whatever we're doing.
Okay, fine.
So we have some argument for the conditional actually coming into practice with those people.
Then you have the kind of area of glutamine with gut health stuff.
And then we actually see that a little bit transfer over to even brain health.
And you specifically like post-concussion protocols.
That whole line then starts to come together and you go, okay, for our population, there's one, two, and three likelihood of all that stuff.
Okay, pretty reasonable.
Add on top of that safety profile,
No real downsides here.
We're not worried about any other effect of it.
Yeah, we use it quite a bit actually.
Yes.
You're taking it two times a day.
Are you splitting up your dose?
Oh, no, there absolutely is.
There's huge.
I covered this.
I did a whole...
We published a paper a few months ago.
Myself, Tommy Wood, and Federica Conti works with me at Parker now as my research scientist.
We published a review on preventative as well as post-brain injury concussion research.
All the supplementation, dosage, timing, all that stuff, as well as whole food equivalents.
And that whole paper is open access.
So you can go through that whole thing.
But yeah, this came out as a pretty clear one.
When you start then poking around into the gut health literature as well, you start going, okay, the immune stuff you just brought up, this is such a clear connection between this entire chain from being sick to the brain health to the energy.
You pay attention to how it's working, what it's doing.
And you're like, okay, this is one of those times where it lines up and you go, oh yeah, now I get it.
Like this is why it's having such cross benefit.
Right.
Absolutely makes sense.
We do almost always 10 grams twice a day, morning and night.
That's a pretty thing, especially if we have any inclination or direct evidence of actual gut issues.
That's a common one.
If we want to drop it then back down to 10 grams total a day, like we will do that, but we will generally live at least 10 grams a day.
That said, um,
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do your protocol because I'm on it.
If I ever get sick again, I'm having a lawyer send a letter to you.
I'm blaming everybody.
It doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Not getting a cold.
My wife probably has had one cold in a decade.
Like it doesn't matter.
You could soak her in a bath of 16 cold viruses.
She will get nothing.
I'm so envious of those people.
Nothing.
My, my daughter is like, okay, but she gets a lot.
My son and I just, you bring it home.
It's over.
Like it's a wrap.
I'm so done.
And I get so mad because I'm like, I know all these things.
I do this, whatever.
This is my job and I can't.
But I've never tried this at this level.
Try it.
I'm so, like, I'm fired up.
I'm a straight shooter.
Yeah.
And we just dose it with all the rest.
It's like put creatine, put it all in there, deal with six ounces of the light and just get it out.
Well, if it has a conditional effect, if it has any of the immune effect, it's going to have the same there.
So you will see muscle soreness as the primary outcome to pay attention to there.
Like, is it doing anything anabolically?
in cachexia maybe or like some other situations, sarcopenic, but for normal people.
Now, why we do it is the other stuff for the most part, like all the gut health.
I've changed my tune on this one.
I was not compelled by this evidence for a long time.
I was also not compelled that as long as your protein intake, whole food is high or higher than ish, you know, like higher than basic numbers.
It's not no compelling evidence.
I don't care about skin.
So I'm like, whatever.
I've changed a little bit.
More and more research has come out
And it looks like there's something actually happening here.
Where this gets sticky is still the argument of organ-specific conversion.
So if you are consuming it, how do we actually know that you're consuming collagen and that's getting into collagen?
Well, the argument would be if it's all being broken down into its individual constituents and it doesn't matter.
And then there's some talk of like, well, there's these special kind of conditional ones where it gets crossed through as these combination of amino acids.
So therefore, it's going to be more targeting collagen.
We'll wait and see if that holds true or not.
I'm not entirely convinced of that either.
But that said, when you go to the end of the story, it does seem to be doing stuff for connective tissue and ligaments.
And I would say... I think it's just an area where we probably don't have the answers yet.
Like we don't have all the answers.
It may be something else.
Maybe it's that, maybe it's not that, but something's happening here.
And so now we will very often recommend it prophylactically, even if you're not injured.
Certainly if you have any soft tissue injury history, you're compelled to that.
30 to 60 minutes pre-exercise seems to be the time.
So timing dosage does seem to matter with collagen.
I mentioned earlier, co-ingested with like 50 milligrams of vitamin C seems to be the thing.
This is all Keith Barr's work, like many other people, but he's the one who's pushed this for many, many years now.
scientifically.
So he gets credit for a lot of this work.
And again, I was on the other side of the fence, like, I don't buy it, I don't buy it, I don't buy it.
Completely different.
Well, this was the argument against it for many years.
Well, for muscle, yeah, but like for connective tissue and... Now, potentially it mattered, right?
So...
Yep, we'll do it.
As you've heard me say many times now, I also like to run like, well, what ifs?
Like, what's the downside?
There doesn't seem to be really any downside here.
So cost, money, sure.
Physiologically, we're not blocking adaptations.
We're not shuttling something else out.
We're not doing long-term damage.
We're not shutting off a pathway.
Okay, worst, we spent some money.
All right, most of the people I'm around, they'll take that exchange.
Then you start adding with something like collagen,
Hair, skin, other potential benefits?
Like, okay, I'm getting potential benefits in multiple areas.
There is some human research on this.
It might work.
Very little downside.
Yes, it's pretty cost intensive relative to protein powder.
And if that's your barrier, fine, I get it.
No problem.
But for the most part, it's not that expensive.
We don't use it much.
No?
No.
Honestly, I would have to dive back into that database.
I haven't looked in many years.
Same.
I give it to my dogs.
That makes you feel any better?
That's the only thing we give them.
They're old.
But, yeah, we don't use it.
I think there's more compelling ways to go about it.
If we're having consistent injury issues, we're doing other things.
That's not going to be our first, second, or third line of defense at all.
How are you defining recovery?
How are you labeling?
Okay.
The reason I ask that is because we answer this differently depending on how people are thinking of recovery.
We think about this in terms of like a muscle soreness.
Are we thinking about this in terms of a, my energy's low the next day?
Are we thinking about this in terms of, I felt fine, but my actual performance was just a little bit lower.
Those are three different types of recovery.
Are we thinking about this more chronically?
man, I've just been going down for several weeks and several months.
Like depending on how we frame this, my answer would completely different.
So is there one or more of those that you would want to focus on?
Yeah.
Okay.
So in that particular case, you've laid out the basic framework for us a second ago, right?
In terms of the three big processes that happen there, it is not the case typically where you're actually tearing tissue down.
In the case of strength training and muscle, we hear that all the time.
Like you break the muscle down, you have these micro tears that would then have those cascades you're mentioning that actually doesn't happen as much as people think.
Um,
Most of the time, muscle tissue is fine.
We're certainly not tearing down a lot of tissue in our cardiovascular system.
This is more of a signaling issue than it is a damage issue.
And we know that because you can induce those same adaptations if you cut those first parts of the equation out.
So I can give you things that simply ramp up adaptation that don't require damage at all.
I do not have to have inflammation to induce adaptation.
That is the primary signal though.
Same token.
If I give you an inflammatory agent without any tissue damage at all, I can get similar adaptation.
So we can cause physiological responses with an inflammatory marker that comes in rather than an actual tissue damage.
So those things are independent of itself.
It's not there.
But you laid out the basic cascade, some sort of inflammatory immune response there, some sort of tissue edema swelling, and then some sort of back cascade.
Why supplements, why different tools, why different recovery protocols work and why they matter is because they can target any aspect of that.
The front side works.
Or the backside.
The insult coming in or the adaptive response.
And you can play a game any part of that area.
We will use different solutions based on why we think that the thing happened in the first place.
So that is our overall framework of how we set up recovery in this context.
And I'm saying this because if you look at actually the data, and we've done this across millions of data points, like literally millions of heart rate variability data points and things like that, subjective perception, how you feel today, will stack up as tight as almost any other biological metric we can pick.
It's really, really important.
If you're feeling good, if you're making progress and you don't feel terrible, then I'm not worried about your recovery at all.
Like we're done.
So when you ask me what should people measure, most of the time the answer is nothing.
Don't worry about it.
You making progress?
Yeah.
You in a lot of pain and suffering?
No?
Good.
We're done.
Like you want to do metrics behind that,
Sometimes it makes things worse.
Sometimes we're looking at data and it's not the right way to go about it and that can cause problems.
We end up pulling technologies away from people a lot.
We pull sleep trackers away from people a lot.
We do those things.
So I'm bringing that up because that is the metric you should care about, progress and pain.
We're good on both of those, we're done.
This is the only recovery equation we're happening.
If we're running into issues with one of those two things,
Now we'll have a conversation.
Easy, no problem.
Muscles are sore.
Step number one, input.
What's your training program look like?
I told you the story earlier, wife getting super sore.
There's not a supplement there that we can do to fix her.
That was a training program error.
In her case, it was not.
Actually, she uses Brett Contreras' program.
Not Brett's fault.
That was her dum-dum fault.
She did a training boo-boo, as she calls them,
And okay, great.
That's not something we have to go fix.
That was just like, all right, like don't do that again or suffer.
Let's just throw that one out.
Let's go to the backside.
Let's assume your training program is good.
And just for the sake of speedy conversation here, let's assume sleep and nutrition and mental health and all that is okay, right?
Because that is all going to be part of our real equation.
Let's go to the end of it.
What do you do?
Got super sore.
How do you fix it?
supplements again would not be our route if you need to take pain relievers because you're there fine what's going to be more effective now you're actually starting to talk about things like blood movement you actually mentioned earlier you like to move a low level of physical activity on in terms of magnitude of effect is almost always going to be your biggest impact can you get something can you get out and move a little bit
Um, thermal stress is another big favorite of mine.
Sauna.
Great.
I like direct contact though.
So if we can get in warm water, I prefer that.
So this is a jacuzzi bath, things like that.
If you want to go to, and we've run a couple of actually Dom studies, uh, two of them using Norma tech boots, right?
And compression boots, air boots, like things that go there.
That is fine as well.
We've done a lot of muscle stimulation stuff.
So yeah, muscle stem units and things like that.
You'll find data that supports all of those things.
If you want to sledgehammer things and use a combination, we will do that too.
We will say, okay, great.
We're going to bath today.
We're going to do Norma tech boots.
We're going to do hyper ice stuff.
We're going to do compression stuff.
You can do all of these things.
They probably are working on similar mechanisms, but
But again, no downside.
And if you're in that much pain and suffering, use them all.
Like really try to use everything.
Because what you're basically doing is you're doing low-level physical activity for many, many, many hours of the day.
We'll use Firefly.
That little tiny device you can put on the front of your leg.
It's a little strip.
Makes your toe, bing, bing, kind of up, down, move.
You can do it for hours a day.
So you can put that thing on.
You're on a plane, you're working, your foot is flexing at a high frequency.
That's been shown a bunch of times to be super effective for recovery.
So there's tons of little tools we can do, but all of it is basically doing the same thing.
It's low-level blood flow.
for a long period of time.
So pick your tool, pick your poison.
You want free, you want expensive, you want combinations.
I can give them all to you, but it's all, again, basically going the same way.
All the above.
All the above.
I would have bet, too, after you do your run, you're probably a little more physically active.
Because you're not a sore.
So you're probably going to be walking a little bit more.
You're going to be getting up.
You're going to be doing things more active throughout the day.
So your 30-minute run is still going to net on aggregate.
Get a lot more blood flow.
Yeah, more blood flow in, more nutrients in, more waste products out, all of the above.
You also have indirect signaling.
A lot of pain, to go back a little bit, a lot of like muscle soreness pain is neurological, right?
So you have pressure likely happening on the nerve endings in that specific area, right?
So you can get some of that fluid out of there, you have less pressure, you have less pain receptors.
You also have desensitization that's happening, right?
So you're moving in sodium potassium pumps, like on the cell membrane,
That's moving stuff back and forth, right?
We're seeing adaptation there.
So it's gonna be a combination of all that.
I don't know if I've ever seen any particular set of papers that say like, this is the exact molecule signaling property that is like explaining all of muscle soreness.
So the best answer we could say would be all of those things are likely contributing on some level.
At the end of the day, most of the time, exercise-induced muscle soreness is a cellular pressure issue.
And so the more that you can get that out there,
You have to get the inflammatory signal out of there because that's going to keep putting you back into tissue swelling.
So get the fluid out and then stop the signal that says stop putting more fluid in there.
And then eventually you're going to get yourself back to normal.
Yeah.
You're probably actually looking more of a fascial issue than you are blood flow.
That's what the voodoo floss stuff is going to do.
So you're pinning and twisting and moving.
So it's connective tissue glide and slide.
So your connective tissue is supposed to glide actually.
So people don't actually realize this very often, but you should be able to pinch your skin and pull it away from your tissue.
That's not just fat there.
If you are pinned down constantly, that's a connective tissue fascial.
And so what you're doing with that is you're rubbing it both horizontally and vertically.
And when we typically think about like massage, it is a vertical compression, right?
I'm pushing down on the tissue.
I'm down on the tissue.
What you'll see often is actually horizontal movement and pulling away.
This is, if you've ever seen like cupping, people do that.
You're pulling skin away from fascia rather than smashing fascia back into it when it's kind of knotted down already.
So any relief you're getting there is not probably for the blood flow.
It's the fact that you're pinning that fascia and then you're moving the tissue around the fascia and getting that kink, if you will, to let go.
So completely different mechanism of action there.
That is acute and chronic, but mostly that is an acute issue.
If you're dealing with things like runners will get a lot of side leg pain, TFL pain, IT band, a lot of times same issue there, right?
So you're getting more glide and slide, that fascia can move appropriately, and that's where the pain signal is going.
People don't realize that there's a load of nerve endings in fascia.
There's a ton, right?
So if that stuff gets irritated and aggravated, that's going to be pain.
And that's probably not a muscle issue.
You might not necessarily be able to tell.
A lot of people can't tell their fascia versus their muscle.
But more likely than not, it's connected to your fascia issue.
You can.
Conceptually, you just want to move it.
So if Voodoo Floss does it for you, awesome.
If you want to roll out on a lacrosse ball, cool.
If you want manual massage, great.
Cupping, infinite ways to do it.
But what you want to do, again, is not just compress.
The only thing traditional, like a foam roller or any other self-myofascial release...
generally people are smashing down.
What we want to think is actually pulling away.
So pulling the fascia away from your body rather than smashing it into the muscle and then rotating it, moving it horizontally, gliding up and down versus just smashing together.
So there's a whole host of companies that make this.
Normatec is the one that's been on the market for a long time.
They actually recently got acquired by Hyperice.
But these are boots...
You can sit, and they make them for the upper body too, but you can sit in them, and imagine a pair of pants, and the pair of pants inflates with air all the way around it.
And so it goes on and inflates, entire leg gets crushed, and then it deflates.
And then it gets crushed and deflates.
And so it squeezes back and forth and back and forth.
So you get a little bit of hypoxia, a little bit of blood flow.
A little bit of hypoxia, a little bit of blood flow.
And they can do it for 20 or 40 or 60 minutes or however long you want.
It's basically simulated exercise.
A little bit of blood, a little bit low, a little bit back.
So blood flow, yes.
You will actually see really compelling evidence on water immersion.
Not only cold water.
I simply mean water immersion.
Yeah.
Totally.
But it's the orthostatic pressure that comes with being in fluid that will do the same thing.
This is many, again, one of the many reasons why I'm like, like sauna is not the only answer here.
It's great for a thousand things.
But the water itself is playing a little bit of a magic role.
And we know this because there have been trials where we've actually controlled for temperature and you still get those benefits of just being in that fluid environment.
So if you can do that, you can, gravity changes in the equation, things can move in and out of tissue.
And there's actually pressure that comes from being in the water.
It's a low level pressure that smashes up against your tissue.
Now, if you want to change temperature and you get some of those other benefits, that's great too.
But the water itself is fantastic way.
So I would strongly also recommend people getting into water if they can.
Probably not.
You might help you manipulate it.
Yeah.
I mean, you have the pressure issue we talked about, and then we have all the other heat-related mechanisms that you've talked about for many, many years now that happen too.
So you combine those two, it's a big win.
Yeah.
In fact, there's some evidence that it's beneficial.
Right.
It's like supportive.
We do it a lot.
We do it a lot post-exercise.
The only thing you got to be careful with is if you did something that
you really went over the edge with in terms of training if you get into a sauna sometimes it feels like it delays recovery a little bit because it actually kind of feels like it exacerbates the training like you've continued to train particularly if you've gone really hard like if we've had a our folks have um played like a five-hour round of golf in georgia in august
Probably not hopping in the sauna afterwards, right?
Because like fatigue is high, fluids are already low, so on and so forth.
We're not going to add that on.
And in that particular case, we're like walking away.
So when you, you got to think through this stuff a little bit more when you're saying, all right, we were actually are pretty fatigued.
Let's not add to that bucket, but like a normal exercise session.
Yeah.
Hop in a sauna, jacuzzi afterwards.
Like we're all, we're all game for it.
Totally here.
So here's how we will frame it.
It's not a substitute for exercise, of course, but it's better than sitting on a couch.
for most things.
So training is first.
If on top of past that, or we have an injury or fill in the blank there, then we can use sauna to keep maintenance, to keep pace, to keep some cardiovascular adaptation going.
So if we're pulling training down, like oftentimes we actually have to pull high intensity exercise down for people.
If you're dosing high-intensity stuff, like truly high-intensity endurance work too often, that can put people in really bad spots.
So what we can do sometimes is pull them off of that and insert sauna, and they still can kind of feel like a little bit of, I worked really hard.
And some people need that, not for physical reasons, but for other rationale.
So we use it in those particular cases.
Or we're deloading.
Or we're doing any number of other things where we can't get as much exercise as we want, or we're bringing it down.
So we use it in that particular context.
If we then take it into an individual athlete and we're trying to use it for specifically performance benefits gains, I would only be okay doing that if training volume is pretty low.
Because anything that takes away from training in an athlete, there has to be a really big payout because specificity wins.
So if that means we're doing less miles on the road, well, some people can afford less miles.
Sometimes that's a good thing.
But we've got to be really careful of maintaining oyster training specificity.
In that context, that's how we'll handle that thing.
So we'll be really time dependent and whatever else is going on in our life.
Feels good, of course.
Feels way better than cold.
We rarely have a hard time convincing people to do stuff that involves the heat.
Like, okay, put a hot pad on your leg.
Like, all right, I'm in for that one.
High Price makes a bunch of stuff.
I don't have any connection to them at all, but they just make a bunch of little easy things to put on your legs and your arms that get hot really fast.
They're super easy to use.
So we will do those things, again, quite a bit.
Whether or not they're making a benefit in our high performance on things, I don't know.
But if they're like, that felt good, that's a win.
plausibly helping.
Cool.
You finally convinced me to do it, and now you're telling me I'm screwing myself up.
Your fault.
Muscle soreness, it seems pretty clear based upon the data that is available that cold water immersion is more effective than something like cryotherapy or a cold shower.
there has been some papers that showed crowd therapy itself did help with muscle soreness, but if you stack them again against the cold water immersion, the water...
wins.
So we really never use cryotherapy.
If you're going to use something like a cold shower, then there's, there's other reasons for it.
I don't think I would be, I wouldn't put my money on cold showers doing much for muscle soreness, right?
Again, many other reasons why one could do it, but that would not be the primary goal if we're using it for that.
So right out the gates.
Now, it does work.
And many studies have been done.
And I would say our anecdotal experience, my personal experience, our coaching experiences would support that.
Generally, people are going to be a little bit less sore when they go in it.
Do we do it immediately post-workout for people trying to grow muscle?
No.
many in studies now, and I feel like every couple of weeks another one comes out and I'm like, good gracious, we know already.
We know already.
Stop doing this.
Stop doing that work.
We know it's not a good idea.
The questions that come up then next usually are, okay, so how long post-exercise do I have to wait?
No one knows.
Yes, like stop doing the basic one.
We know that answer.
There's like seven studies at least now that have done it.
We get it.
I don't know, right?
If you look at our time course stuff we've done on like gene expression, that happens within seconds.
Signaling happens within seconds and is ramped up for minutes to hours post-exercise, depending on the marker and things like that.
Gene expression typically peaks three to four to six hours, again, depending on the one you're looking at for muscle anabolism.
Muscle protein synthesis, you're at 48 hours.
So I don't know, because people always ask, what if I lift in the morning and ice at night?
I don't know.
Is it four to six hours?
That's where that number comes from, by the way.
It's like all the time course research on gene expression.
You're also talking about like four or five genes that were in that study.
So it's not like it's exact, like complete mapping of the entire anabolic genetic response.
It's like a few of the markers.
Some of them are at four, but they weren't all.
Some of them peaked at an hour.
Some of them peaked like seven hours later.
So like the four hour window thing is like a, it's not exactly what people think it is.
So nobody has any idea.
Like I have no idea at all.
Again, I'll tell you how we typically handle it, but
Yeah, we don't know.
Yep.
Yes.
Yeah.
Not a ton to go off of there, but yeah, like one queen can do that.
The quick answer there is you're looking at mitochondrial benefits.
Like, which is okay.
Like then there's some plausible thing there.
We don't use cold water immersion a ton.
I used to use it more.
We do it when we do it, when we do it rather, it's for other reasons.
If somebody really overcooks it and they're super sore, great, okay?
The other reasons we use it are generally not performance-based, okay?
We're not using it for longevity or lifespan or anything like that.
We tend to use it for things like stress inoculation, for nervous system resilience,
For breathing mechanics, that's the rationale we typically go to cold water.
That said, we have pulled cold water away from people a lot because there can be serious nervous system problems that come with cold water immersion.
There can be sleep issues that come with cold water immersion for some people.
So in those people, we tend to like back it off because it's a stressor.
It's a very big stressor.
And if your allostatic load is already over the brim,
Some people cold is great.
Some people it is pushing past and making things worse.
So we'll wind it back.
That said, I love it.
I have multiple at my house.
I've been doing it for a very long time.
I had a deep freezer in the back of my house for many, many, many years that I use.
But it's not for everybody.
It's not the danger, though.
It's not going to block all your adaptations.
But it's probably not something you have to be doing every day to live a great life either.
So lots to say about that.
Other reasons.
A bunch of reasons that you would explain that.
So we've actually plotted this.
We did a bunch of stuff probably four or five years ago.
We didn't publish it.
just we were, we were tinkering around with stuff and we started looking at HRV.
Uh, we brought it up just in case people aren't aware.
It's a marker of overall recovery.
Like we'll kind of keep it at that for now.
And when you go into the ice, whether this is anywhere between 30 to 50 degrees for a minute to five minutes, you generally going to get out of that ice and you will see sympathetic drive fight or flight is elevated like pretty consistently.
That said, uh,
We plotted this every 15 minutes for up to three hours post, and you just continually see a rise in parasympathetic drive for up to three hours post.
So I don't know when he's using it, but I would be willing to strongly bet he is far more down regulated going to bed when he does the ice for that exact reason.
You got to time it appropriately, because again, when you get in the ice and immediately somewhere between 15 to 30 minutes post ice exposure, you'll be more sympathetically driven.
But after that, for several hours, and most of the people, they were far more.
And I'm talking about like 20 to 50% reductions, or elevations rather, in HRV, meaning more passive, for many hours.
And we stopped actually collecting the data at three hours.
So I don't even know how long that thing lasts.
But I'm not surprised.
Yeah, we have a non-small amount of people who like to do it in the evening as well.
Yeah.
I'm not surprised at all that he likes it.
Yeah.
But yeah.
Does he shower then before he goes to bed?
Is he hot again or does he?
Yeah.
There you go.
There you go.
Oh, he likes to get hot first and get in the cold.
I go straight cold.
I'm like, I hate going hot.
Oh, I don't hate it.
But like, I'm like, all right, just get cold.
Just like do the cold and get over it.
But a lot of people like it that way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Understood.
Yeah, the big ones in this particular area, these are all respiratory related, what you just described.
There's lots of ways we measure readiness
Performance, fatigue, like depending on which spectrum you're in here, people will call these different things.
Load management, there are performance-based ones.
These ones you've all mentioned are in the respiratory physiology side.
So that's great.
We'll just stick right there.
Now, HRV is one of them.
Resting heart rate's another.
More commonly, though, that we use are respiratory rate.
And then you can look at something like CO2 tolerance.
Let's just disregard those for now.
We'll focus on respiratory rate.
We'll focus on HRV and heart rate.
Resting heart rate is a good sign if conditions are stable.
If your resting heart rate becomes elevated at probably more than three to five beats per minute for more than a couple of days, that is a good sign something is happening.
In this case, not a good thing, right?
So it's starting to become elevated, as you said earlier, generally indicates you're getting overcooked, right?
Too much training or allostatic load, total stress, like something.
Not enough recovery.
Not enough recovery, calories, something's going on there.
The issue with that is resting heart rate is incredibly unsensitive, right?
It takes weeks for that to happen.
You're well into that problem.
And when you start seeing changes in resting heart rate, you are so far down that road that you've like, we should have saw this weeks ago.
100%.
Yeah.
You will not see a change in first thing resting heart rate for a very long time into problems.
The reason why people like HRV more is because it is far more stable.
It is also, like resting heart rate, nonspecific.
So you don't know what's happening, but that variability that you're mentioning that Ben talked about earlier, that's also the benefit.
Once you establish somebody's standard deviation, what do they normally fluctuate, right?
Some people are going to be really neurologically, nervous system is going to be super stable.
Some people's nervous system is really unstable, right?
That itself is a marker.
How wide you range on your daily HRV is incredibly telling to what's going on in your system.
Because of that, that sensitivity, I can see things happening really quickly.
Now, some of the common mistakes with HRV are looking at the flat score, right?
You know if I said right now, like, Ronald, what's your resting heart rate?
And if I said your resting heart rate's 100 beats per minute, you know that's bad.
If I said right now your HRV's 100,
You have no idea if that means anything.
Actually, I wouldn't know.
I'd have to be like, okay, well, what device was that on?
What conditions?
Like, I still don't know.
So the benefit of something like a heart rate is it's clear and defined for the most part, good and bad.
HRV is not.
It's really a moving target.
So it's more sensitive, but it tells us information.
The variability, like I said, tells us a lot.
In addition to that, once I establish your normal standard deviation, when you start exceeding one, especially two standard deviations for more than a couple of days, something is happening.
And I will tell you right now, you will see that way before you start seeing changes in resting heart rate.
That problem is going to occur way before.
You don't want to overreact to a single day, as I mentioned.
So you wake up, your HRV and your devices will pick a number.
70 normally.
Some people will stay within 70 to 75 to 65.
So their standard deviation will be like 5 milliseconds.
Some people's normal standard deviation is 20.
30 days.
Measure for 30 days.
And try to keep things stable.
Take the average, right?
Most of your tracker devices and stuff will give you these numbers anyways.
If you're more than outside that standard deviation for one day, eh, whatever.
Don't really care, right?
If it is three plus days, I typically am looking for five plus days.
Five plus days of a continual pattern in one direction or the other, something is happening.
Now, it's nonspecific, so there will be a lot of noise in the system.
But again, I think this is a feature, not a perk, not a downside.
Cause we're going to see like, okay, did you change something in your food and your sleep and your environment?
You know, fill in the blanks.
Everything can tinker in there.
We, um, we, we will use HRV a decent amount.
Some people though, as I said earlier, they get so obsessed with those numbers.
We take it away and go, Hey, just how are you feeling today?
Right.
Because of those exact problems, Ben has mentioned like, like there'll be a ton of variability.
People can't get this past.
I literally was dealing with, um, a client, um,
He's like, I'll just say, sold a company early in life.
He's in his 40s and just has way too much money, right?
This is how he is.
He serves.
That's what he does.
Everything that we measure on him is fantastic.
He's been in the program for probably a year and a half.
So he's super dialed on everything.
And he just can't get this HRV score out of his brain.
Like he can't get it because he's just like, it's down, it's down, it's down.
it's not down, right?
For him, this is a normal number.
And also, by the way, these technology companies, if you're using that stuff, they change algorithms constantly.
So like your scores can there.
So those are all the reasons if you're like paying attention to commercial HRV stuff, Ben is right.
You should be super skeptical.
Don't over-interpret those things.
If you see something like resting heart rate change,
That means something.
There's no accident there.
That wasn't because you had a bad night of sleep.
And you're consistently seeing an elevation of heart rate.
One day difference in HRV could be nothing.
It could be completely irrelevant to what you're doing.
But that doesn't mean necessarily that it's a bad marker.
When you're using it appropriately, there's a ton of information we can glean out of that.
Specifically, again, where we find most of the value is even things like biofeedback training.
We can develop more resilience within your nervous system, and you can objectively see that.
And so we can use a whole bunch of different tools where we can give people, and we can say things like, okay, can you calm yourself down?
Can you?
Oh, yes, I can.
Great.
Well, then show me in your physiology.
And you can see them looking at HRV data and going, oh, it's not moving.
Oh, great, this is why we want you to go do A, B, and C, or a bunch of different ways you can do it.
So that's a lot of value in HRV independent of just my single one ultimate recovery marker.
In my opinion, respiratory rate is even better.
When you see changes in respiratory rate, this will happen way before changes in resting heart rate, and this itself will influence both resting heart rate and HRV.
If you start breathing more, something is happening.
There's actually a really interesting paper.
Laura Bloomfield did a couple of papers where she measured all these things, resting heart rate, sleep, HRV, and looked at stress.
And one of the things she found in her second, actually, two studies in the second one found that you'll see something like your likelihood of experiencing moderate to high stress, one beat per minute increase in resting heart rate gave like a 1% to 2% increase in risk.
but a one breath per minute change in resting heart rate was a 20 to 30% increase in likelihood of experiencing moderate to high stress, which is a way of saying that stuff will flag way before resting heart rate.
Resting heart rate didn't do anything, didn't tell them anything about it, but HRV and specifically respiratory rate shot way up.
You can see acute stress.
If I look at someone's day in the morning and your normal respiratory rate is say 12 breaths per minute overnight, and you're at 14, I'm like, whoa.
something's going on.
If you're at 14 for two days in a row, boom, you're going to get sick the next day or you're already sick or something like, Hey, what's going on, Ronnie?
Okay.
Like what's going on?
Like, no, my God, like something's happening.
And so for me, when we're coaching people, like we're coaching them, I don't want to wait six weeks to start seeing problems happen.
I need to go like, Hey, this happened right now.
What the heck has happened?
What's going on?
And from our opinion, HRV and respiratory rate, we'll jump off the charts way before resting heart
Depends on the device you're using.
If you start going out to the wrist and the hand, we start losing accuracy, right?
If you're actually using a chest strap,
We're getting better.
When we really care about it, like in our actually like sleep testing stuff, we're gonna have a device directly on your chest.
We're measuring not only respiratory rate, but we're measuring the amplitude of change in your chest.
We're measuring the direct movement of it.
Outside of that though, respiratory rate's pretty easy to measure.
You can, or you can wear your wearable, your watch or your ring.
For respiratory rate, it's okay.
For HRV, we start to lose accuracy.
But respiratory rate is actually pretty easy to pick up from a tracker.
So you'd be okay there.
HRV gets tricky.
Nutritional stress, environmental stress.
Again, you'll see, if you remember a few years ago, well, a few years ago,
We all remember COVID.
There was a bunch of different devices that came out where NFL and the NBA, actually, I think they did it with Aura.
They were able to have these like pre-COVID flags.
And we had a bunch of professional athletes.
And I'll give Aura some credit here.
It was pretty good.
And what I'm saying is we would get an alert.
We're like, boom.
It's like somebody has COVID.
No signs, no symptoms.
Well, it's a combination.
Respiratory rate, body temperature, and a handful of other things.
And they had this like fancy algorithm.
They just opened it up like publicly last year or something.
Dude, it's fantastic.
Yeah.
Like I'll tell you, like I didn't look at the data.
I didn't read the papers.
But for our athletes, like it was pretty much spot on.
Like, damn.
And you like have a day to prepare.
You're like, okay, great.
You're going to get COVID tomorrow.
Like we just knew it was happening.
So those things can be pretty sensitive.
Even again, that's a wearable on their finger.
And they were able to get good enough with their data to figure out you're going to get sick the next day.
So it can be, yeah, stress.
It can be nutrition.
It can be actual like bacterial viral infection, environmental exposure, allergens, tons of things like that can flag that make people breathe more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, great.
In order for you to create adaptation, we have to put in stress.
That's how the body maneuvers itself.
The more stress, the more adaptation.
At some point, though, too much stress overwhelms the system, and we start having negative adaptations.
We start going backwards, we stop making progress, and eventually, actually, things get worse.
You get hurt, you get injured, so on and so forth.
At the end of that station, that is overtraining.
True physiological overtraining is very rare.
It tends to take weeks, if not months, to recover from.
You're not overtrained if you're like, oh, I had to take Saturday off.
I feel way better today.
That's not overtrained.
Overtrained is I couldn't exercise for two months, and then I finally started feeling better.
So it's really uncommon.
It does happen.
Uncommon.
Before that, you get into what's called non-functional overreaching.
So you're overreaching.
You're pushing your body past where it should do.
And you did it so much that when you actually recovered, you didn't get any positive adaptations.
It was not functional.
It didn't produce a benefit.
So if you were to go this in the spectrum, right now, if you were not to go train, we got done, we would go lift.
Our acute performance would be worse because we're tired.
Okay, great.
But then we rest and we come back tomorrow.
Next day, our performance is better.
If we keep doing that though, we keep training and we don't give ourselves enough time to recover.
we'll eventually go down in performance, down in performance.
And then if we take some time to recover, we should have this super compensation.
That would be a situation in which we overreached, but it was functional because it produced a benefit, produced performance enhancement, more mitochondria, more muscle, you know, fill in the blank for whatever you want.
So we have functional overreaching.
That's what we're after.
It was functional.
We have non-functional.
You kept going.
You either trained too much.
You under-recovered or both.
And then you had to take weeks off, typically days off or weeks off, and you got back to baseline.
And then overreaching is past that.
That's what we're really getting at.
We want to spend as much time in functional overreaching as we can.
And when we back off, we have, again, ideally a super compensation.
We got the adaptation we're looking for.
If you really get into over-training...
It's hard to define because there's no marker of it.
We actually have this really cool, Phillip Larson and his lab in Carolinas Institute has published a bunch of really cool papers.
There's a handful of very specific mitochondria markers that they've identified.
They can actually see overtraining happening before any other signal of them.
There's like six or eight different metabolites they've got that they've published.
It's really interesting stuff.
I actually think they're onto something pretty smart there.
But because of that, this is one of the exercise science problems.
What are the signs of true overtraining?
I don't know.
You're tired.
You're hungry.
Maybe you're sleeping more.
Maybe you're sleeping less.
Maybe you're not hungry.
It's kind of like everything.
There's no...
This is just like, well, we saw people that were over-trained and then some of them had less energy.
Some of them had more.
It's all over the board, right?
There's no class, like there's this classic literature on things like testosterone to cortisol ratio and cortisol DHEA ratios.
And there's lots of other little markers, but there's no one specific biomarker or performance marker or subjective marker or sleep marker that is like the definitive, yes, you're diagnosed with over-training.
Like that doesn't exist.
So it's a combination of all these things that we're looking at to try to determine whether or not somebody's in that spot or whether they're functionally overreached or non-functionally overreached.
So it's a pretty messy situation, to be totally honest with you.
So we don't exactly know what we're doing.
All that then underlines saying, all right, how does somebody know?
I don't know.
Take a day off.
Do you feel better?
Yeah, I feel way better.
Okay, probably functionally overreached or non-functionally overreached.
That's good.
Good position to be in.
Took a week off.
Still feel terrible?
Okay, now we might need to deploy some more aggressive solutions because you may have actually pushed way past that limit.
So that is really the best way to think about overall overtraining.
So generally what's going to happen along that entire cascade, in all that, you're going to be less anabolic.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I got you.
It's a cascade.
So you're going to be, okay.
So you're going to start off and things get worse.
Testosterone will go down.
Yeah.
So let's just say we start, we're not working out.
We haven't trained in a month.
And then we pick it up again.
You and I, we get after it and we're going.
The first couple of weeks, we might see a reduction in basal testosterone.
We've overloaded the system a little bit.
Things might get worse, right?
Your physical performance might get worse.
Fatigue is setting in.
This is a stressor.
This is actually good.
This is why you wouldn't want to come in and give yourself an anti-inflammatory.
You wouldn't want to come in and give yourself, like you're actually trying to induce adaptation here.
And so when you see markers that look like they're bad, this is just a signal that says you're overloaded right now.
Resting heart rate might go up.
HRV goes down.
That's okay.
This is the off-season for our athletes.
We expect these things to happen at the beginning of the off-season when we just start training again.
Normal.
If we continue past that... Sorry, what's up?
If you were to stop...
and you were to start recovering more, then you'll see testosterone come right back up.
Potentially, well, most likely not go back any higher, but it'll come right back up and performance will go higher.
So like an acute, and I'm defining acute as like a couple of days or a couple of weeks of something like testosterone going down early in a training phase, it's very normal.
It might stay the same, but it might come down a little bit.
And if it does come down a little bit, I'm not stopping training.
I'm not backing off unless we're seeing signs of like extreme fatigue or pain or whatever.
That little bit of like short-term, what looks like a negative thing is not.
It's a normal physiological response.
If we were to keep going though, we didn't bring you out of that.
And then we got into something like non-functional overreaching.
Then the testosterone is still going to be down or potentially lower.
But then you'll start seeing the things of, now my performance has been down.
It's been down for three weeks.
It's been down for five weeks.
It's not coming back up.
Okay.
Sleep issues, hunger issues, motivation issues.
You continue to go and you get into true overtraining.
Now, almost surely, anabolic hormones are down.
The few studies directly on actual overtraining suggested that something like a testosterone recovery might take a while.
It can really struggle to come back.
Typically, when somebody's a little bit overreached, even if their testosterone is down, a couple of days off, it flies right back up.
It's not really a compromised neurological system there.
It's just an acute fatigue.
What about in women?
Is it?
Same thing.
Obviously, testosterone total amount is lower.
I'd say we've seen it more in non-athletes than athletes.
Yeah, way more.
Because an athlete's generally pretty in tuned.
And they're like, oh, I don't want to do this or whatever.
You'll get feedback from them.
It's oftentimes the hard charging CEOs, right?
This is like I'm burning the bridge.
I'm on oftentimes a lot of stimulants or other things.
I'm running a company.
I'm doing this.
I'm traveling a bunch.
And then, oh, yeah, I do.
All I do is high-intensity exercise training.
And then because of that, I'm on a lot of stimulants, like I said.
And then, oh, yeah, then my sleep's not great.
It's inconsistent.
I'm in different time zones.
I don't see my kids.
It's that whole thing that goes, whew.
Allostatic load just gets through the roof and there's no payback.
That's the people we've seen more in the non-functional overreaching.
And then they wonder why they're plateaued.
Okay, I'm laughing here because that makes intuitive sense, right?
And we have a number, we work with, I have a company, Absolute Rest, and we have the most famous, you would know the name, sleep scientists in the world, right?
The most published ones.
I've asked that question so many times.
Nobody has a direct answer.
It makes sense, right?
I burn more calories today, I should sleep more.
There's no compelling scientific evidence to suggest that caloric expenditure is directly tied to minutes of sleep needed.
That said...
Like Jeffrey Germer has been doing this for 30 years.
He's like, there is like, he just, he's saying, I'm telling you clinically that happens.
So I'm like very much laughing when you say that, because I'm like, man, I know what the science says on that, but my experience is different.
And Jeff is like, no, the higher output sports need more sleep.
High volume people need more sleep.
People that are like professional athletes, but they don't have a lot of caloric expenditure don't seem to meet as much sleep, need as much sleep.
I defer to Jeff on this one.
I'm like, I think he's actually right.
I think they're the same.
So it's very funny question.
Um, but is that like true on a day to day basis?
I don't think so.
I don't think just because you train really hard today, you have to have more sleep tomorrow.
I think on average over weeks, it might probably line up.
But that's the best we can answer.
So there is nothing we can do to enhance performance more than sleep.
So there's no supplement.
There's nothing that's even close.
When you asked about recovery earlier, that's our first step.
I got, you know, I'm clearly very biased here.
Like this is what my company does at a very high level, right?
So I have a...
A vested interest in a different answer here than probably most.
But we spent a lot of time.
I've been fortunate to work with many of the highest paid athletes in the world where we had unlimited funds to do anything.
And we know at the same time, sleep is so critically important.
But the best thing we could do is send them in like a sleep clinic or a consumer wearable.
And it was like killing me.
I'm like, how is there not better sleep solutions than these?
That's why we went and built Absolute Rest.
How do we know if it's enough?
We do it differently.
We actually have a bunch of direct measures of follow-up cognitive and physical performance.
So we determine high quality sleep as a function of how are you actually performing.
So that is a different answer for everybody.
It can be a time domain.
It can be, there's actually a, one of the markers we use is actually called sleep quality index.
It's FDA approved.
Tons of evidence behind it.
That metric alone is an okay single number, if you want to use it.
But that has a lot of validation behind it.
We start there.
But like I said, sometimes it is a numbers game.
It is a total amount of hours.
Past that, it's way more interesting stuff than sleep staging.
Sleep staging is...
is not a good way at all to think about sleep quality.
More interesting are things like fragmentation, sleep stability, sleep range.
The amount of time you spend in those arbitrary sleep stages varies wildly by cognitive demand.
Your body is not asked to do the same things on every day, so it's not gonna have the same sleep architecture every day.
So the way that we define high quality sleep, completely different.
What we are working on right now, actually,
is direct testing of next day cognitive function.
That's how we backfill sleep quality and sleep timing.
And so we want to actually develop methodologies in which we're like, we'll actually test a whole bunch of different cognitive functions and we can determine what is actually effective for you based on your actual functionality rather than an arbitrary like set of numbers.
If that is like, what the hell is he talking about?
Back all the way up and just say, how do you define good quality sleep for you?
How is your daytime function?
That is your thing.
Are you fatigued?
Are you sleepy throughout the day?
Everyone's gonna be somewhat sleepy, particularly in the afternoon, right?
But is it detrimental to your performance?
How are you performing cognitively?
How are you performing physically, right?
And then how much strain are you under?
If you're happy with all those things, then I would say you have good sleep quality.
We don't have to get any piece of technology past that.
If you're failing or you're like slightly suboptimal in one of those areas,
Then we might have to do some tinkering.
I have to do some follow-up.
But if you're like, I wake up, I'm a little bit tired in the morning, but like, that's normal.
Yeah, like I have a coffee and then I feel fine.
A little bit tired in the afternoon, but I train, I feel good.
You probably sleep pretty good.
That's a pretty good marker.
If it's not that, let's talk.
But other than that, you don't need to go out and get yourself tested.
in awareness and accountability, right?
So I actually don't even care which tracker you use or the accuracy because for those three things, it's great.
Here's examples.
Some people have no idea how they're sleeping.
Like, oh yeah, I sleep six hours and I sleep five hours a night.
And you look and you're like, you sleep eight hours a night.
You have no idea what good... So a tracker, accurate or not, it's good for accountability.
When people know they're being watched, they make better decisions, right?
It's good for awareness, right?
So pick your poison.
I have multiple eight sleeps actually at my house.
They're great.
I love them.
Awesome.
Use that.
Use whatever you want to do.
If you're actually trying to get into the nitty gritty of sleep details...
then you need to take an appropriate look at an appropriate set of technologies, not those ones.
But if you don't care about that, there's tons of benefits from people just getting somewhat aware and being held kind of accountable.
People generally make better decisions, especially, again, the folks that we work with.
They know we're going to look.
They know someone's going to be like, what did you do?
And they have to answer that question.
They just tend to make slightly better decisions.
As I talk about everything.
Yeah, I learned a lot.
Yeah.
You know all the big stuff.
I'll skip past it.
Okay.
You got it all cold, dark, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Past that.
Hydration is one of them.
my expectation is for people to wake up at most once per night.
I would like to get you to zero.
It's not always realistic.
Past once per night, now we have something to fix for most people.
If you're causing the damage by drinking too much water at night, then let's stop that.
I drink tea pretty much right before bed at night.
Generally, I'm okay with it.
If it's not, then back it off.
And if that means you have to go back to three hours, then that's what you got to have the tea at four o'clock in the afternoon, I guess.
I don't know.
Have it back there.
Okay, no problem there.
Other stuff that people generally don't think about, a couple of things.
Fatigue and falling asleep at night does not necessarily equate to downregulation.
So we have something called the wind down index.
We have a whole bunch of metrics we can look at.
This is very common for the person who wakes up at two or three in the morning.
And either that happens all the time
Or when they wake up at two or three in the morning, they can't get back to sleep.
Really strongly tied to lack of wind down index.
And so what does that mean?
Just like with your kid, you probably have a 60 to 90 minute routine that that person goes through and you don't even realize it.
But that is really critically important to getting you to land in the right spot.
Your routine is probably 15 minutes.
right?
Not yours, but you know what I mean.
And so having a more appropriate game plan of what that is, it doesn't mean to have to avoid light.
Doesn't mean you have to avoid TV.
Doesn't mean you have to sleep with your phone in a different room.
You can do all those things.
You don't have to.
We have tremendous high resilient sleepers that do all those things, but it is about a consistent routine.
Number one, just try to do the same thing as often as you possibly can.
We'll work out switching out behaviors a little bit later.
That's another one.
Ventilation in the room is critically important.
People don't pay attention to this.
One of the biggest reasons people wake up during the night is because they can't breathe through their nose.
One of the biggest reasons you can't breathe through their nose is dander, pollen, allergens, something like that.
Start to block it up.
Whether that's completely blocked or not, but then you open up and you start mouth breathing.
Mouth breathing then means your tongue is a bigger issue.
as well as your mouth can get dehydrated or get dry, rather, and you have a little bit of a dry mouth and you need to have a drink of water at night.
These things can happen.
This will wake people up a ton.
You want to make sure that you have proper ventilation in your room.
One of the things that also happens in this is CO2.
CO2 levels rise above 900 parts per million.
This will significantly and dramatically affect everything from sleep onset, sleep quality, next day perceived fatigue, next day arithmetic ability.
CO2 getting too high in a room can happen because your doors and windows are all closed.
If you have multiple bodies, you and your partner, your dog is in there, all of you are now kicking out CO2 into the room, right?
You're exhaling.
If that room is small, and again, lack of ventilation, that number starts to rise.
If you are particularly sensitive to CO2 as well, which many people are, then that kicks off that entire cascade.
You get pushed way more into sympathetic drive.
And again, the biggest issue is you will see a subjective and objective massive change in fatigue and energy and cognitive function the next day.
People rarely talk about CO2 concentrations in your room.
This is a classic case of, like, I do all the things.
I've listened to Matt Walker.
Like, I do all of it, and I still suck at sleep.
You start thinking about what's going on in your physical environment.
900 parts per million.
Yep.
You will see typically 1,200, 1,300.
In people, like really consistently, that's not that bad.
Most of the problems happen at like 2,000, 2,500, 3,000.
So if you're freaking out, you're like, oh my God, Annie said 900 and I'm at 1,000.
Don't worry about it.
Okay, you have tons of combinations of things you can do here on both ends of the spectrum.
Number one, you can actually just become more resilient to CO2.
So if you work on your CO2 tolerance, this will help, especially if you're CO2 intolerant.
Outside of that, lower the amount in the room.
If you can open up windows at night, that's great.
If you can have less bodies in your room, that's great.
Those two things are generally not very much of an option for people.
Awesome.
Can you get high ventilation in that room before you go to bed?
Have your doors and windows open.
Get that number down.
When I used to live here in LA, our house was probably, I don't know, 2,400 square feet, multiple level.
And we're in LA, so our doors and windows are closed because air quality is just, it is what it is here.
It would not be uncommon for us to just, by the time it's like seven o'clock at night, have 2,200 parts per million.
You're like, oh my gosh, it's up there.
And it would take us hours to open up windows and just like let the CO2 clear in the house, right?
You're talking about four humans, two dogs,
And even in a pretty big place, that fills up pretty fast.
So can you start that process earlier?
As earlier in the day, can you open up windows in the house?
If not, at least open up your sleeping space so that airflow can get in and out of that.
If you need to turn a physical fan on to do that, that's another option.
And it will drop pretty fast by doing that.
Okay, so a bunch of different things there as well.
One, same exact answer.
Try to get as much of that cleared out of there as possible before the nighttime starts, right?
Now, you'll particularly see this with people who are like, my nose is fine throughout the day, and I just wake up at night.
It only happens at night, only happens in my bedroom.
Part of that's gravity.
Part of that's physically gravity, right?
Like you're laying up here or you're standing up here, all right, and you go backwards, and then it's going to sit there.
Like part of it is that.
So number one, do all the things I just talked about, cleaning the air out of there.
If you want to get an air filter and then specifically put it in or above or around your bedroom, that is a great option.
So you can go there as a next step.
Third step is you can just use Flonase.
You can use a very simple nasal dilator.
So whether this is actually like a nose strip that you can put on, we use a bunch of different companies for this, or an actual injection, again, like a Flonase, and you can squirt it in your nose before bed, dilate your nose, you can stop having problems that way.
So those are three or four different things you can try.
We've used and we'll use all those things pretty consistently, and they're all pretty beneficial and they work pretty well.
There's some amount of just like morning gunk you'll have.
That's normal, that's okay.
But if this is consistently waking up with dry mouth and nose completely clogged, then I would do all those steps.
Past that, then you've got to really start thinking about special pillowcases and different solutions like that.
But those are more expensive.
The rest of the stuff I mentioned is cheaper.
Yeah, I'd say, like, have a consistent approach.
Timing, system, whatever you want to be.
Routine, number one.
And I want to be really clear.
I know I'm running out, but...
That doesn't mean 45 minutes of breath work and meditation.
That's not the routine.
The routine can just simply be, I do the dishes, and then I brush my teeth, and then I check my... That is fine for the routine.
It doesn't have to be this big 90-minute, my phone's gone, and that's not what I'm referring to.
Just do the same thing as much as you can in the same order, in the same routine.
Number two, make sure that your physical environment past temperature, past sound, past light, like you're, you're taking a caution to that.
If you don't have a CO2 sensor or an environmental scanner, we like, we send that out to everybody.
So they always have those just open up the ventilation anyways.
So you can do those steps regardless of the testing.
So that'd be my second biggest one.
Um, another one that I would maybe say pop off that's, that's abnormal.
Um,
Yeah, honestly, like the wind down index is pretty popular.
So making sure just because you're fatigued, and you know, you're gonna fall asleep quickly, that you're still doing something to make sure that your parasympathetic system is actually turned on.
That's a little bit different, right?
So we always say like, like, turn on the off switch, we want to do so do whatever that takes for you to do it.
Some people that's reading other people that's not, like for me,
Reading doesn't do it for me.
Breathwork will not do it for me.
I actually have to have something that physically triggers my brain of gives me permission to let go for the day.
That means I'm doing something that is so unproductive.
I'm probably reading some blog that four other people read about what the Seattle Seahawks did with their 12-string wide receiver.
Something that is clearly not work-related for me that
is what I feel like is a waste of time.
That is just a trigger for me to go, yeah, it's your time.
You don't have to be productive.
You don't have to answer anybody.
All the input, everybody wants something from you all day, your space.
So I'm doing that.
I'm watching something non-inspiring or motivational on TV, whatever the case is.
That's hunting videos for me.
That's outdoor stuff.
I'm watching cool things like that.
It makes me super happy and I check out.
That doesn't work for Natasha.
It doesn't work for her at all.
Whatever it is that cues you that your day's over, you give your brain permission to be done for the day, that's it.
So that would be my three big areas that people can try.
On my phone.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Technology or whatever other fun stuff.
Yeah, it's seasonal.
So we did 10 episodes the first season, and then we took, I don't know, five or six months off.
And then season two is out now.
No guests season one, just me going nuts.
And then we brought in some guests this season and we're actually going to finish up filming tomorrow.
We'll be done for the season.
We'll take a little break.
And then another set will come out later in the fall.
So I can't do the, I don't know how you all do it.
Like the consistent podcast is a poof.
It takes my soul in a good way.
Yeah, it's super fun.
I appreciate you bringing that up.
It's like perform is the name of the game.
Like we want to help people perform at their best, whatever that means to them, like however that means to them.
So yeah, enjoy it, love it.
And yeah, thanks for bringing it up.
Yeah, obviously we're building that Human Performance Center in Dallas, which is really awesome.
I can't wait to share with people some of the technology that we built inside that thing.
It doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.
It's like super exciting.
The ability for us to conduct research out of there, to do studies that I've wanted to do for decades, you know, it's like, well, that's just not feasible anymore.
The team down there at Parker has removed those barriers.
They're like, make it world-class, and we're making it world-class.
We're doing a study right now, actually that we're actively recruiting for.
Maybe I can pitch that if that's cool with you.
My grad student Zoe, she came with me from California, and Federica, they're running a study where we're looking at sleep across the menstrual cycle.
Stunning enough, there's not a lot of research on this.
And the stuff that's been done is questionnaires and maybe like a PSG, like two days here, two days there, two days at the end of the cycle or something.
So there's still a bunch of unresolved questions about what actually happens
to sleep quality throughout the menstrual cycle.
And so we're actively recruiting.
So if you are female and you are interested in this, I would like love to have you involved in our study.
You can be anywhere.
You don't have to be in Dallas.
So it's open.
We're recruiting.
We're doing an open protocol.
You get a bunch of stuff with it, but we're going to run full clinical grade FDA approved sleep analysis every night throughout the entire cycle.
So we'll do cycle mapping.
We'll do blood.
We'll do urine.
We'll do a bunch of cognitive stuff.
And so we're really going to see like, is sleep changing in people with a normal menstrual cycle across the window?
18 to 35.
So younger, healthier, you know, all that stuff.
We really wanted to do it.
Actually, Matt was trying to get us to do this and menopause stuff.
And I was like, I want to, but I got to answer one question like at a time rather than two at a time.
So it's just cool stuff like that that we can do because of some of the technology we have.
But yeah, we're actively recruiting.
That's our first like big study out of there.
And then we got a bunch of other ones, but yeah, the performance center should be open next year.
Hopefully.
And people can come down and check it out.
It'll be open to the public too.
Yeah, let us know.
I'm super excited about that.
Yeah, and grad students too, if you want to come to grad school.
We have an online program so we can get a master's in strength and performance with me.
That's fully virtual.
Or you can come in person and then work in our lab where we're, we have a lot of projects.
So welcome all the bodies.
So bring it.
Every time I said that people are like, Oh my God, you're in box.
I'm like, I don't care.
Bring them all.
Yeah.
You know, I got to tell you something before you leave and get out of here.
I'm so proud of you.
The fact that you post those strength training videos, and I know what happens in the comment section to that.
Like it's everything for me not to be like hammering everybody on there.
But it is really hard for people to post stuff like that.
And you know it's going to happen.
But you're very courageous in putting that stuff up there.
I think that helps a lot of women.
I think it's dope as fuck.
I think it's the coolest thing.
Yeah, love it.
Appreciate it.
Can't wait to chat again.
And it's been so long coming.
Define high performance for me, but some categorical rules I can answer here.
Define high performance for me, but some categorical rules I can answer here.
Define high performance for me, but some categorical rules I can answer here.
Cognitive performance is a different answer here, right? So you can go into the small details with examples like people like to bring up blueberries. Lots of research, a cup of blueberries per day is actually going to have statistically significant and clinically meaningful improvements in cognitive function. We use this very routinely. It's been very well demonstrated.
Cognitive performance is a different answer here, right? So you can go into the small details with examples like people like to bring up blueberries. Lots of research, a cup of blueberries per day is actually going to have statistically significant and clinically meaningful improvements in cognitive function. We use this very routinely. It's been very well demonstrated.
Cognitive performance is a different answer here, right? So you can go into the small details with examples like people like to bring up blueberries. Lots of research, a cup of blueberries per day is actually going to have statistically significant and clinically meaningful improvements in cognitive function. We use this very routinely. It's been very well demonstrated.
It's all honestly super true. So if you then wind back to some of your previous questions on that, does it matter which format that you like to give yourself structure with? You're like, what the hell did he just say? You could have called that a diet. That's all diets are. They're just a different format that gives you structure.
It's all honestly super true. So if you then wind back to some of your previous questions on that, does it matter which format that you like to give yourself structure with? You're like, what the hell did he just say? You could have called that a diet. That's all diets are. They're just a different format that gives you structure.
It's all honestly super true. So if you then wind back to some of your previous questions on that, does it matter which format that you like to give yourself structure with? You're like, what the hell did he just say? You could have called that a diet. That's all diets are. They're just a different format that gives you structure.
That's all it is, right? I don't even call them diets because it's nonsensical.
That's all it is, right? I don't even call them diets because it's nonsensical.
That's all it is, right? I don't even call them diets because it's nonsensical.
That's garbage, like almost all nonsense out of that stuff. Fasting is insanely overrated. I like it. Do it a bunch. But if you're thinking that skipping breakfast in the morning is going to solve almost any of your health problems, you're generally massively misguided. If it is helping you, avoid triggers. Then awesome. If it is helping you manage your calories, awesome.
That's garbage, like almost all nonsense out of that stuff. Fasting is insanely overrated. I like it. Do it a bunch. But if you're thinking that skipping breakfast in the morning is going to solve almost any of your health problems, you're generally massively misguided. If it is helping you, avoid triggers. Then awesome. If it is helping you manage your calories, awesome.
That's garbage, like almost all nonsense out of that stuff. Fasting is insanely overrated. I like it. Do it a bunch. But if you're thinking that skipping breakfast in the morning is going to solve almost any of your health problems, you're generally massively misguided. If it is helping you, avoid triggers. Then awesome. If it is helping you manage your calories, awesome.
If you don't like breakfast in the morning, awesome. Totally fine. We actually just, this actually on the way over here, I submitted back revisions. Our paper should be accepted in the next couple of days. We ran a study on intermittent fasting in our laboratory. So I'm not against it at all, but I'm certainly against people thinking that they have to do it for any short or long-term reason.
If you don't like breakfast in the morning, awesome. Totally fine. We actually just, this actually on the way over here, I submitted back revisions. Our paper should be accepted in the next couple of days. We ran a study on intermittent fasting in our laboratory. So I'm not against it at all, but I'm certainly against people thinking that they have to do it for any short or long-term reason.
If you don't like breakfast in the morning, awesome. Totally fine. We actually just, this actually on the way over here, I submitted back revisions. Our paper should be accepted in the next couple of days. We ran a study on intermittent fasting in our laboratory. So I'm not against it at all, but I'm certainly against people thinking that they have to do it for any short or long-term reason.
You have to figure out a way to get yourself high-quality foods. You have to figure out a way to manage calories somehow. And if fasting is a way that checks those boxes on a positive, well, great. If it doesn't, then I don't care at all about it. I will promote a six meal a day diet as much as I will a one meal a day diet. Whatever is, those are not the factors that matter.
You have to figure out a way to get yourself high-quality foods. You have to figure out a way to manage calories somehow. And if fasting is a way that checks those boxes on a positive, well, great. If it doesn't, then I don't care at all about it. I will promote a six meal a day diet as much as I will a one meal a day diet. Whatever is, those are not the factors that matter.
You have to figure out a way to get yourself high-quality foods. You have to figure out a way to manage calories somehow. And if fasting is a way that checks those boxes on a positive, well, great. If it doesn't, then I don't care at all about it. I will promote a six meal a day diet as much as I will a one meal a day diet. Whatever is, those are not the factors that matter.
The factors that matter are the other things. Now, having said that, We will use things like fasting a lot for cognitive performance with things like our surgeons and our firefighters and our other responders because they generally are going to go, hey, I can't take a break every two hours and go snack, right? I'm in a 16-hour surgery. I'm in a nine-hour surgery, right?
The factors that matter are the other things. Now, having said that, We will use things like fasting a lot for cognitive performance with things like our surgeons and our firefighters and our other responders because they generally are going to go, hey, I can't take a break every two hours and go snack, right? I'm in a 16-hour surgery. I'm in a nine-hour surgery, right?
The factors that matter are the other things. Now, having said that, We will use things like fasting a lot for cognitive performance with things like our surgeons and our firefighters and our other responders because they generally are going to go, hey, I can't take a break every two hours and go snack, right? I'm in a 16-hour surgery. I'm in a nine-hour surgery, right?
I need to perform really well given these constraints. Awesome. I don't want a surgeon then getting hungry every two hours and like scrubbing. They're going to be like, dude, no, zero chance. So in situations like that, or again, the firefighters are another example or military where you're like, hey, I need to be able to be on for these big chunks of time and then feed and then great.
I need to perform really well given these constraints. Awesome. I don't want a surgeon then getting hungry every two hours and like scrubbing. They're going to be like, dude, no, zero chance. So in situations like that, or again, the firefighters are another example or military where you're like, hey, I need to be able to be on for these big chunks of time and then feed and then great.
I need to perform really well given these constraints. Awesome. I don't want a surgeon then getting hungry every two hours and like scrubbing. They're going to be like, dude, no, zero chance. So in situations like that, or again, the firefighters are another example or military where you're like, hey, I need to be able to be on for these big chunks of time and then feed and then great.
But I would never do that for a PGA golfer. Never, right? That would make no sense for us whatsoever to do that. We need to have different constraints and different performance variables. So those people generally eat way more frequently. If you have a personal preference, if you have anything. So it's always about precision.
But I would never do that for a PGA golfer. Never, right? That would make no sense for us whatsoever to do that. We need to have different constraints and different performance variables. So those people generally eat way more frequently. If you have a personal preference, if you have anything. So it's always about precision.
But I would never do that for a PGA golfer. Never, right? That would make no sense for us whatsoever to do that. We need to have different constraints and different performance variables. So those people generally eat way more frequently. If you have a personal preference, if you have anything. So it's always about precision.
Because their tournaments are not at the same time. Sometimes they tee off at 6 in the morning, and let's say they're a West Coaster, and they're going to go play a tournament on the East Coast, they're teeing off at what's 4 a.m. their time. And then they're going to play a five-hour round in August in Florida. It's going to be super hot, right? And they've got to turn around and then play.
Because their tournaments are not at the same time. Sometimes they tee off at 6 in the morning, and let's say they're a West Coaster, and they're going to go play a tournament on the East Coast, they're teeing off at what's 4 a.m. their time. And then they're going to play a five-hour round in August in Florida. It's going to be super hot, right? And they've got to turn around and then play.
Because their tournaments are not at the same time. Sometimes they tee off at 6 in the morning, and let's say they're a West Coaster, and they're going to go play a tournament on the East Coast, they're teeing off at what's 4 a.m. their time. And then they're going to play a five-hour round in August in Florida. It's going to be super hot, right? And they've got to turn around and then play.
So our energy demands are really, really, really high on those tournaments.
So our energy demands are really, really, really high on those tournaments.
So our energy demands are really, really, really high on those tournaments.
So it's honestly, it's all the big stuff. You're going to manage calorie intake one way or the other, right? We're going to focus on getting high amounts of high quality foods. So we're eating mostly whole real foods. We want a variety of colors. We want a variety of preparation methods. We're going to use a lot of fruits, a lot of vegetables, a lot of meats if we can.
So it's honestly, it's all the big stuff. You're going to manage calorie intake one way or the other, right? We're going to focus on getting high amounts of high quality foods. So we're eating mostly whole real foods. We want a variety of colors. We want a variety of preparation methods. We're going to use a lot of fruits, a lot of vegetables, a lot of meats if we can.
So it's honestly, it's all the big stuff. You're going to manage calorie intake one way or the other, right? We're going to focus on getting high amounts of high quality foods. So we're eating mostly whole real foods. We want a variety of colors. We want a variety of preparation methods. We're going to use a lot of fruits, a lot of vegetables, a lot of meats if we can.
Four to six.
Four to six.
Four to six.
Yes and no. Here's what I'd say. Intermittent fasting affects different people differently.
Yes and no. Here's what I'd say. Intermittent fasting affects different people differently.
Yes and no. Here's what I'd say. Intermittent fasting affects different people differently.
Sure. I have coached world champion females in six different sports. And I have coached a countless amount of females non-athletes. I just, I can't honestly say, yes, women generally need to do more fasting.
Sure. I have coached world champion females in six different sports. And I have coached a countless amount of females non-athletes. I just, I can't honestly say, yes, women generally need to do more fasting.
Sure. I have coached world champion females in six different sports. And I have coached a countless amount of females non-athletes. I just, I can't honestly say, yes, women generally need to do more fasting.
I will say, like, of all the females we've coached, and this is 18-year-olds to 68-year-olds, right? I've coached the whole spectrum, a lot of them. It's just a person-to-person thing. Okay. More than it is a male versus female thing. Some of our... Women just do way better. when we eat more frequently. Some of them, it doesn't really matter.
I will say, like, of all the females we've coached, and this is 18-year-olds to 68-year-olds, right? I've coached the whole spectrum, a lot of them. It's just a person-to-person thing. Okay. More than it is a male versus female thing. Some of our... Women just do way better. when we eat more frequently. Some of them, it doesn't really matter.
I will say, like, of all the females we've coached, and this is 18-year-olds to 68-year-olds, right? I've coached the whole spectrum, a lot of them. It's just a person-to-person thing. Okay. More than it is a male versus female thing. Some of our... Women just do way better. when we eat more frequently. Some of them, it doesn't really matter.
Some of them, it's like, it's just, again, it's like an individual thing more than anything. So what we like categorically never do, and I'm trying to like triple check my brain, but yeah, I don't think there's anything we ever specifically do just because someone walks in and they're female versus male. Like there's no like, oh, automatically we train this way or we do this with our food.
Some of them, it's like, it's just, again, it's like an individual thing more than anything. So what we like categorically never do, and I'm trying to like triple check my brain, but yeah, I don't think there's anything we ever specifically do just because someone walks in and they're female versus male. Like there's no like, oh, automatically we train this way or we do this with our food.
Some of them, it's like, it's just, again, it's like an individual thing more than anything. So what we like categorically never do, and I'm trying to like triple check my brain, but yeah, I don't think there's anything we ever specifically do just because someone walks in and they're female versus male. Like there's no like, oh, automatically we train this way or we do this with our food.
We do the same individualized programming every day. Like that's, it's a variable we pay attention to, but there's no buckets you just go into because you show up in your male or you show up in your female or you show up in your anything else, right? So we're really going to pay attention to that. And we test, we're actually doing a trial right now.
We do the same individualized programming every day. Like that's, it's a variable we pay attention to, but there's no buckets you just go into because you show up in your male or you show up in your female or you show up in your anything else, right? So we're really going to pay attention to that. And we test, we're actually doing a trial right now.
We do the same individualized programming every day. Like that's, it's a variable we pay attention to, but there's no buckets you just go into because you show up in your male or you show up in your female or you show up in your anything else, right? So we're really going to pay attention to that. And we test, we're actually doing a trial right now.
My grad student Zoe is running a study where we're actually doing the first ever detailed sleep analysis throughout the entire menstrual cycle. So we're looking at blood. We're directly testing high-fidelity sleep every single day throughout the entire cycle. We're directly testing blood. We're directly testing ovulation. We're testing these things every single day for maximum precision.
My grad student Zoe is running a study where we're actually doing the first ever detailed sleep analysis throughout the entire menstrual cycle. So we're looking at blood. We're directly testing high-fidelity sleep every single day throughout the entire cycle. We're directly testing blood. We're directly testing ovulation. We're testing these things every single day for maximum precision.
My grad student Zoe is running a study where we're actually doing the first ever detailed sleep analysis throughout the entire menstrual cycle. So we're looking at blood. We're directly testing high-fidelity sleep every single day throughout the entire cycle. We're directly testing blood. We're directly testing ovulation. We're testing these things every single day for maximum precision.
And one of the things you'll see is things like menstrual cycle length is not the same from woman to woman. Everyone knows that. But it's not even the same within each woman. But let's say it is. Let's just say you're a 28-day cycle all the time. Great. Your ovulation cycle is not the same. And this really, if you test it every single day, cycle after cycle, you'll see this pop up.
And one of the things you'll see is things like menstrual cycle length is not the same from woman to woman. Everyone knows that. But it's not even the same within each woman. But let's say it is. Let's just say you're a 28-day cycle all the time. Great. Your ovulation cycle is not the same. And this really, if you test it every single day, cycle after cycle, you'll see this pop up.
And one of the things you'll see is things like menstrual cycle length is not the same from woman to woman. Everyone knows that. But it's not even the same within each woman. But let's say it is. Let's just say you're a 28-day cycle all the time. Great. Your ovulation cycle is not the same. And this really, if you test it every single day, cycle after cycle, you'll see this pop up.
You don't necessarily ovulate on day 14.
You don't necessarily ovulate on day 14.
You don't necessarily ovulate on day 14.
When like men are like, what is he even talking about? But girls are like, no, dude, it's finally, right? This is exactly. Totally, yeah. So we're not going to make critical decisions about their nutrition or supplementation or stuff based on like a, well, you're a woman, therefore you should be ovulating day 14, and therefore, here we go.
When like men are like, what is he even talking about? But girls are like, no, dude, it's finally, right? This is exactly. Totally, yeah. So we're not going to make critical decisions about their nutrition or supplementation or stuff based on like a, well, you're a woman, therefore you should be ovulating day 14, and therefore, here we go.
When like men are like, what is he even talking about? But girls are like, no, dude, it's finally, right? This is exactly. Totally, yeah. So we're not going to make critical decisions about their nutrition or supplementation or stuff based on like a, well, you're a woman, therefore you should be ovulating day 14, and therefore, here we go.
We're going to test these things and then go, okay, for you, this is what's going to go on. That's what we're going to do based on your physiology.
We're going to test these things and then go, okay, for you, this is what's going to go on. That's what we're going to do based on your physiology.
We're going to test these things and then go, okay, for you, this is what's going to go on. That's what we're going to do based on your physiology.
Calorie balance, whole real foods for the most part. We want a reasonable balance of macronutrients. By reasonable, that could mean some people do better on a really high-fat, low-carbohydrate. Some do the opposite. Really low-fat, really high-carbohydrates. Some don't care at all or are in a balance. So when I say reasonable, I'm just saying like... what is actually working for you or not.
Calorie balance, whole real foods for the most part. We want a reasonable balance of macronutrients. By reasonable, that could mean some people do better on a really high-fat, low-carbohydrate. Some do the opposite. Really low-fat, really high-carbohydrates. Some don't care at all or are in a balance. So when I say reasonable, I'm just saying like... what is actually working for you or not.
Calorie balance, whole real foods for the most part. We want a reasonable balance of macronutrients. By reasonable, that could mean some people do better on a really high-fat, low-carbohydrate. Some do the opposite. Really low-fat, really high-carbohydrates. Some don't care at all or are in a balance. So when I say reasonable, I'm just saying like... what is actually working for you or not.
And we can play games there. High performers, not high performers, lifestyle preferences, taste, digestion. We can mix and match, particularly fat and carbohydrates. We almost always, though, want a moderate to high protein intake. Almost always right there. And then we want a lot of variety. and our colors.
And we can play games there. High performers, not high performers, lifestyle preferences, taste, digestion. We can mix and match, particularly fat and carbohydrates. We almost always, though, want a moderate to high protein intake. Almost always right there. And then we want a lot of variety. and our colors.
And we can play games there. High performers, not high performers, lifestyle preferences, taste, digestion. We can mix and match, particularly fat and carbohydrates. We almost always, though, want a moderate to high protein intake. Almost always right there. And then we want a lot of variety. and our colors.
We need a variety of micronutrients, vitamins, chemicals, phytochemicals, minerals in there. And so we like a lot of color. We like a lot of different sources of those things. That's basically what everyone does. The way that we get there, different.
We need a variety of micronutrients, vitamins, chemicals, phytochemicals, minerals in there. And so we like a lot of color. We like a lot of different sources of those things. That's basically what everyone does. The way that we get there, different.
We need a variety of micronutrients, vitamins, chemicals, phytochemicals, minerals in there. And so we like a lot of color. We like a lot of different sources of those things. That's basically what everyone does. The way that we get there, different.
Sure. So most of the time I'm walking around about 170 pounds. So I'm looking for 200 grams of protein a day, like plus or minus, right?
Sure. So most of the time I'm walking around about 170 pounds. So I'm looking for 200 grams of protein a day, like plus or minus, right?
Sure. So most of the time I'm walking around about 170 pounds. So I'm looking for 200 grams of protein a day, like plus or minus, right?
I don't weigh and measure at this point hardly ever anymore. So some days I'm probably 130. Some days I'm well over 200. Right. Most days, though, I'm probably going to be swinging within 30 or 40 grams of that number, right?
I don't weigh and measure at this point hardly ever anymore. So some days I'm probably 130. Some days I'm well over 200. Right. Most days, though, I'm probably going to be swinging within 30 or 40 grams of that number, right?
I don't weigh and measure at this point hardly ever anymore. So some days I'm probably 130. Some days I'm well over 200. Right. Most days, though, I'm probably going to be swinging within 30 or 40 grams of that number, right?
So in the morning, I generally wake up. When we get going, I'm going to almost always have eggs and some sort of wild game meat.
So in the morning, I generally wake up. When we get going, I'm going to almost always have eggs and some sort of wild game meat.
So in the morning, I generally wake up. When we get going, I'm going to almost always have eggs and some sort of wild game meat.
I harvest my own. So I'm going to eat deer or elk or bear or like something every day. What?
I harvest my own. So I'm going to eat deer or elk or bear or like something every day. What?
I harvest my own. So I'm going to eat deer or elk or bear or like something every day. What?
What do you mean, bear? Bear. Like the animal. You know, like Winnie the Pooh, the bear. Like a grizzly bear? I can't hunt grizzly bears very often, but black bears are pretty easy to get, so they're quite tasty.
What do you mean, bear? Bear. Like the animal. You know, like Winnie the Pooh, the bear. Like a grizzly bear? I can't hunt grizzly bears very often, but black bears are pretty easy to get, so they're quite tasty.
What do you mean, bear? Bear. Like the animal. You know, like Winnie the Pooh, the bear. Like a grizzly bear? I can't hunt grizzly bears very often, but black bears are pretty easy to get, so they're quite tasty.
many times okay is it fatty is it like what is it it depends on what if you get them post hibernation like you do spring bear hunt they're going to be much leaner right you get them prior to like a later winter hunt and they're going to be much fattier it's not like any other animal though it's weird it is weird to me uh when people no offense but react this way because if i said like hey i ate a cow yeah of course
many times okay is it fatty is it like what is it it depends on what if you get them post hibernation like you do spring bear hunt they're going to be much leaner right you get them prior to like a later winter hunt and they're going to be much fattier it's not like any other animal though it's weird it is weird to me uh when people no offense but react this way because if i said like hey i ate a cow yeah of course
many times okay is it fatty is it like what is it it depends on what if you get them post hibernation like you do spring bear hunt they're going to be much leaner right you get them prior to like a later winter hunt and they're going to be much fattier it's not like any other animal though it's weird it is weird to me uh when people no offense but react this way because if i said like hey i ate a cow yeah of course
And then like I say, I ate a beer and you're like, like you can't comprehend.
And then like I say, I ate a beer and you're like, like you can't comprehend.
And then like I say, I ate a beer and you're like, like you can't comprehend.
Deer, people don't freak out. But then bear like, of course, right? They're like any other animal that we can hunt and eat.
Deer, people don't freak out. But then bear like, of course, right? They're like any other animal that we can hunt and eat.
Deer, people don't freak out. But then bear like, of course, right? They're like any other animal that we can hunt and eat.
The general thing you'll hear people say about bear meat is it's greasier, right? So it has this weird thing, and that can be off-putting. It's not gamey, though. If you get a whitetail deer, and it's not processed properly, or you get it during the rut, then you'll get that classic gamey taste. That'll smell weird. But a normal non-deer, or non-poorly processed deer, it was going to taste fine.
The general thing you'll hear people say about bear meat is it's greasier, right? So it has this weird thing, and that can be off-putting. It's not gamey, though. If you get a whitetail deer, and it's not processed properly, or you get it during the rut, then you'll get that classic gamey taste. That'll smell weird. But a normal non-deer, or non-poorly processed deer, it was going to taste fine.
The general thing you'll hear people say about bear meat is it's greasier, right? So it has this weird thing, and that can be off-putting. It's not gamey, though. If you get a whitetail deer, and it's not processed properly, or you get it during the rut, then you'll get that classic gamey taste. That'll smell weird. But a normal non-deer, or non-poorly processed deer, it was going to taste fine.
Bear will be the same way. So if you get it when it's been feeding on a bunch of rotten salmon, then it's not going to taste tremendous. But you'll know it pretty quickly. But on average, if we had lunch right now and I made it for you, you would have had no idea.
Bear will be the same way. So if you get it when it's been feeding on a bunch of rotten salmon, then it's not going to taste tremendous. But you'll know it pretty quickly. But on average, if we had lunch right now and I made it for you, you would have had no idea.
Bear will be the same way. So if you get it when it's been feeding on a bunch of rotten salmon, then it's not going to taste tremendous. But you'll know it pretty quickly. But on average, if we had lunch right now and I made it for you, you would have had no idea.
You'd eat it, whether we're eating like the steak or the burger of it or whatever the case, you'd be like, you wouldn't have had any idea of what I just put in front of you. If I gave you something like axis deer, then you'd be like, that's the most delicious thing I've ever had. What the hell is that? But you wouldn't be like, oh my God, I feel like I just ate a deer. You would have no idea.
You'd eat it, whether we're eating like the steak or the burger of it or whatever the case, you'd be like, you wouldn't have had any idea of what I just put in front of you. If I gave you something like axis deer, then you'd be like, that's the most delicious thing I've ever had. What the hell is that? But you wouldn't be like, oh my God, I feel like I just ate a deer. You would have no idea.
You'd eat it, whether we're eating like the steak or the burger of it or whatever the case, you'd be like, you wouldn't have had any idea of what I just put in front of you. If I gave you something like axis deer, then you'd be like, that's the most delicious thing I've ever had. What the hell is that? But you wouldn't be like, oh my God, I feel like I just ate a deer. You would have no idea.
It's tremendous. I love wild meat.
It's tremendous. I love wild meat.
It's tremendous. I love wild meat.
Every day? Every day, yeah.
Every day? Every day, yeah.
Every day? Every day, yeah.
Of course. If my kid was right there and he'd be like, do you eat bear? They would be like, Yeah, like what? Like they wouldn't have any reaction at all to be like, of course, because they don't know any different.
Of course. If my kid was right there and he'd be like, do you eat bear? They would be like, Yeah, like what? Like they wouldn't have any reaction at all to be like, of course, because they don't know any different.
Of course. If my kid was right there and he'd be like, do you eat bear? They would be like, Yeah, like what? Like they wouldn't have any reaction at all to be like, of course, because they don't know any different.
Not everything, but we try to for the most part. Do you ever go to Whole Foods? No. I haven't been to a grocery store in many, many years.
Not everything, but we try to for the most part. Do you ever go to Whole Foods? No. I haven't been to a grocery store in many, many years.
Not everything, but we try to for the most part. Do you ever go to Whole Foods? No. I haven't been to a grocery store in many, many years.
Yeah. I mean, we'll eat, I don't know what a fair number is. Maybe, I don't know what percent. But we still buy grocery stuff, particularly if we want a specific cut or something that she's doing, she's making, where she wants a specific way it's prepared. Then she'll buy other stuff. But in terms of our general meat consumption...
Yeah. I mean, we'll eat, I don't know what a fair number is. Maybe, I don't know what percent. But we still buy grocery stuff, particularly if we want a specific cut or something that she's doing, she's making, where she wants a specific way it's prepared. Then she'll buy other stuff. But in terms of our general meat consumption...
Yeah. I mean, we'll eat, I don't know what a fair number is. Maybe, I don't know what percent. But we still buy grocery stuff, particularly if we want a specific cut or something that she's doing, she's making, where she wants a specific way it's prepared. Then she'll buy other stuff. But in terms of our general meat consumption...
I probably have, I don't know, 400 pounds of frozen meat in my house right now between elk and axis deer. And I have some mule deer still. And then the salmon run just got done. So my nephew brought over a bunch of wild salmon. So we got a bunch of salmon in there. We got clams and we got a bunch of other stuff. What else do we have in there? Like, it's just like we're in the winter.
I probably have, I don't know, 400 pounds of frozen meat in my house right now between elk and axis deer. And I have some mule deer still. And then the salmon run just got done. So my nephew brought over a bunch of wild salmon. So we got a bunch of salmon in there. We got clams and we got a bunch of other stuff. What else do we have in there? Like, it's just like we're in the winter.
I probably have, I don't know, 400 pounds of frozen meat in my house right now between elk and axis deer. And I have some mule deer still. And then the salmon run just got done. So my nephew brought over a bunch of wild salmon. So we got a bunch of salmon in there. We got clams and we got a bunch of other stuff. What else do we have in there? Like, it's just like we're in the winter.
So we just got done with all those, like the seafood season. So we got crabs in there. We got a bunch of other stuff. So yeah, we had a large portion, but we still buy... Like sometimes occasionally even buy cow and beef and things like that. Pork, of course.
So we just got done with all those, like the seafood season. So we got crabs in there. We got a bunch of other stuff. So yeah, we had a large portion, but we still buy... Like sometimes occasionally even buy cow and beef and things like that. Pork, of course.
So we just got done with all those, like the seafood season. So we got crabs in there. We got a bunch of other stuff. So yeah, we had a large portion, but we still buy... Like sometimes occasionally even buy cow and beef and things like that. Pork, of course.
My wife's Jewish and my kids are Jewish too, but she's a bad Jew.
My wife's Jewish and my kids are Jewish too, but she's a bad Jew.
My wife's Jewish and my kids are Jewish too, but she's a bad Jew.
No. Well, pork is more delicious. I will give you that.
No. Well, pork is more delicious. I will give you that.
No. Well, pork is more delicious. I will give you that.
It's just like not even a thing that pops up in my head is weird. It's just like so part of... That's just how I go.
It's just like not even a thing that pops up in my head is weird. It's just like so part of... That's just how I go.
It's just like not even a thing that pops up in my head is weird. It's just like so part of... That's just how I go.
Well, so the only thing about bear you got to be careful of is... There's a non-zero chance that it has trichinosis. And so you would not want to eat bear rare at all, or even medium rare. So even if you're, like very rarely, you don't do, the only part of bear that I'll eat a steak will be like the back straps or the tenderloins. which you can do, but you want to cook them well done.
Well, so the only thing about bear you got to be careful of is... There's a non-zero chance that it has trichinosis. And so you would not want to eat bear rare at all, or even medium rare. So even if you're, like very rarely, you don't do, the only part of bear that I'll eat a steak will be like the back straps or the tenderloins. which you can do, but you want to cook them well done.
Well, so the only thing about bear you got to be careful of is... There's a non-zero chance that it has trichinosis. And so you would not want to eat bear rare at all, or even medium rare. So even if you're, like very rarely, you don't do, the only part of bear that I'll eat a steak will be like the back straps or the tenderloins. which you can do, but you want to cook them well done.
But outside of that, you're pretty much going to go to other cuts, stews or roasts or grounds or things like that. So you can make like stews are really easy. Grounds or soups and things like that are totally fine. And then the rest you'll do sausage and different grounds and things like that. So we eat a lot of- A bear sausage?
But outside of that, you're pretty much going to go to other cuts, stews or roasts or grounds or things like that. So you can make like stews are really easy. Grounds or soups and things like that are totally fine. And then the rest you'll do sausage and different grounds and things like that. So we eat a lot of- A bear sausage?
But outside of that, you're pretty much going to go to other cuts, stews or roasts or grounds or things like that. So you can make like stews are really easy. Grounds or soups and things like that are totally fine. And then the rest you'll do sausage and different grounds and things like that. So we eat a lot of- A bear sausage?
Same as any other sausage. Take a bunch of meat, put it through a grinder, and then add any other stuff you want to add in there, depending on if you're trying to make bratwurst or breakfast sausage or spicy jalapeno or some other combination. You can make it however you want. We're out of bear meat right now, I think. We're pretty much done, but we're pretty loaded on axis deer right now.
Same as any other sausage. Take a bunch of meat, put it through a grinder, and then add any other stuff you want to add in there, depending on if you're trying to make bratwurst or breakfast sausage or spicy jalapeno or some other combination. You can make it however you want. We're out of bear meat right now, I think. We're pretty much done, but we're pretty loaded on axis deer right now.
Same as any other sausage. Take a bunch of meat, put it through a grinder, and then add any other stuff you want to add in there, depending on if you're trying to make bratwurst or breakfast sausage or spicy jalapeno or some other combination. You can make it however you want. We're out of bear meat right now, I think. We're pretty much done, but we're pretty loaded on axis deer right now.
We just got back. I got a really nice bull elk this year, so we got a lot of elk meat right now, too, which is tremendous.
We just got back. I got a really nice bull elk this year, so we got a lot of elk meat right now, too, which is tremendous.
We just got back. I got a really nice bull elk this year, so we got a lot of elk meat right now, too, which is tremendous.
No, actually, we haven't gone together, but we've just missed each other a bunch. We have a lot of the same friends.
No, actually, we haven't gone together, but we've just missed each other a bunch. We have a lot of the same friends.
No, actually, we haven't gone together, but we've just missed each other a bunch. We have a lot of the same friends.
I knew Joe before Andrew did. I knew Andrew way before. But I'm actually going this spring, I'm going on a bear hunt with Cam Haynes. I don't know if Joe's going to be there or not. He may be, but I haven't asked him about it. But we'll be up there together. Yeah, so we have many friends.
I knew Joe before Andrew did. I knew Andrew way before. But I'm actually going this spring, I'm going on a bear hunt with Cam Haynes. I don't know if Joe's going to be there or not. He may be, but I haven't asked him about it. But we'll be up there together. Yeah, so we have many friends.
I knew Joe before Andrew did. I knew Andrew way before. But I'm actually going this spring, I'm going on a bear hunt with Cam Haynes. I don't know if Joe's going to be there or not. He may be, but I haven't asked him about it. But we'll be up there together. Yeah, so we have many friends.
Depends on how you want to define quality. There's a lot of back and forth. Obviously, as we've just been talking about, I'm clearly a big fan of meat and animal meat. But I think there is ample evidence now that people can live a really high-performing life on plant-based stuff as well. I work with a bunch of plant-based athletes, and they perform fine. So we can get there as well.
Depends on how you want to define quality. There's a lot of back and forth. Obviously, as we've just been talking about, I'm clearly a big fan of meat and animal meat. But I think there is ample evidence now that people can live a really high-performing life on plant-based stuff as well. I work with a bunch of plant-based athletes, and they perform fine. So we can get there as well.
Depends on how you want to define quality. There's a lot of back and forth. Obviously, as we've just been talking about, I'm clearly a big fan of meat and animal meat. But I think there is ample evidence now that people can live a really high-performing life on plant-based stuff as well. I work with a bunch of plant-based athletes, and they perform fine. So we can get there as well.
I work with some really famous local musicians that they are plant-based. So you can get there. I'm not as bullish on that as I used to be. More evidence has come out that's like, okay, the only thing you got to pay attention to a little bit is, of course, limits options.
I work with some really famous local musicians that they are plant-based. So you can get there. I'm not as bullish on that as I used to be. More evidence has come out that's like, okay, the only thing you got to pay attention to a little bit is, of course, limits options.
I work with some really famous local musicians that they are plant-based. So you can get there. I'm not as bullish on that as I used to be. More evidence has come out that's like, okay, the only thing you got to pay attention to a little bit is, of course, limits options.
And you have to be really conscious of calories with that because you generally have to eat more of it or you have to get it in forms that are more calorically dense, right? So if you try to equate something like, you know, four ounces of Maui Nui axis deer to get the same amount of protein, as you get out of peanut butter, right?
And you have to be really conscious of calories with that because you generally have to eat more of it or you have to get it in forms that are more calorically dense, right? So if you try to equate something like, you know, four ounces of Maui Nui axis deer to get the same amount of protein, as you get out of peanut butter, right?
And you have to be really conscious of calories with that because you generally have to eat more of it or you have to get it in forms that are more calorically dense, right? So if you try to equate something like, you know, four ounces of Maui Nui axis deer to get the same amount of protein, as you get out of peanut butter, right?
You're going to be eating 150 calories of protein from the Maui Nui axis deer, and you're going to eat 700 calories from the peanut butter. So your overall calorie intake has to go way up, depending on how it's packaged.
You're going to be eating 150 calories of protein from the Maui Nui axis deer, and you're going to eat 700 calories from the peanut butter. So your overall calorie intake has to go way up, depending on how it's packaged.
You're going to be eating 150 calories of protein from the Maui Nui axis deer, and you're going to eat 700 calories from the peanut butter. So your overall calorie intake has to go way up, depending on how it's packaged.
Like, you know my opinion on that clearly, but it can be done well.
Like, you know my opinion on that clearly, but it can be done well.
Like, you know my opinion on that clearly, but it can be done well.
Yeah. I have, at all times, I take... In fact, they were just around here a second ago. But those travel Momentous protein things, I always have like 20 of them with me at all times.
Yeah. I have, at all times, I take... In fact, they were just around here a second ago. But those travel Momentous protein things, I always have like 20 of them with me at all times.
Yeah. I have, at all times, I take... In fact, they were just around here a second ago. But those travel Momentous protein things, I always have like 20 of them with me at all times.
Yeah, I always take them. So if it's a... You know what's actually cool about Momentus, too? They just changed their whey protein formula. Have you seen this? Which, tell me. They took out... There's no gum anymore. There's no fillers. And there's no...
Yeah, I always take them. So if it's a... You know what's actually cool about Momentus, too? They just changed their whey protein formula. Have you seen this? Which, tell me. They took out... There's no gum anymore. There's no fillers. And there's no...
Yeah, I always take them. So if it's a... You know what's actually cool about Momentus, too? They just changed their whey protein formula. Have you seen this? Which, tell me. They took out... There's no gum anymore. There's no fillers. And there's no...
I mean, the artificial stuff in there. And they took the price way down. So it's way cleaner.
I mean, the artificial stuff in there. And they took the price way down. So it's way cleaner.
I mean, the artificial stuff in there. And they took the price way down. So it's way cleaner.
Yeah, no, I know this because, so I've been working with Momentous for a long time. Disclosure here, they are a sponsor to my show and I personally am on their advisory board. But I'm saying that because they asked me for many years and I said no for like several years. And then they changed leadership and these new people came in and they developed what they call the momentous standard.
Yeah, no, I know this because, so I've been working with Momentous for a long time. Disclosure here, they are a sponsor to my show and I personally am on their advisory board. But I'm saying that because they asked me for many years and I said no for like several years. And then they changed leadership and these new people came in and they developed what they call the momentous standard.
Yeah, no, I know this because, so I've been working with Momentous for a long time. Disclosure here, they are a sponsor to my show and I personally am on their advisory board. But I'm saying that because they asked me for many years and I said no for like several years. And then they changed leadership and these new people came in and they developed what they call the momentous standard.
And so every single product that they make is third-party tested.
And so every single product that they make is third-party tested.
And so every single product that they make is third-party tested.
It's tested also for heavy metals, for pesticides, for herbicides, for toxins, for lead, for a ton of different stuff, right? Which very, very few supplement companies actually do. And then on top of that, most of their products have what's called NSF certified for sport, which is something we have to have for our athletes. So it's all third party tested.
It's tested also for heavy metals, for pesticides, for herbicides, for toxins, for lead, for a ton of different stuff, right? Which very, very few supplement companies actually do. And then on top of that, most of their products have what's called NSF certified for sport, which is something we have to have for our athletes. So it's all third party tested.
It's tested also for heavy metals, for pesticides, for herbicides, for toxins, for lead, for a ton of different stuff, right? Which very, very few supplement companies actually do. And then on top of that, most of their products have what's called NSF certified for sport, which is something we have to have for our athletes. So it's all third party tested.
And then a bunch of it has all this additional stuff. So it's when I saw them doing all that stuff, I was like, oh, You're actually putting your money where your mouth is. Because everybody says their products are the cleanest.
And then a bunch of it has all this additional stuff. So it's when I saw them doing all that stuff, I was like, oh, You're actually putting your money where your mouth is. Because everybody says their products are the cleanest.
And then a bunch of it has all this additional stuff. So it's when I saw them doing all that stuff, I was like, oh, You're actually putting your money where your mouth is. Because everybody says their products are the cleanest.
Yeah, I could believe it.
Yeah, I could believe it.
Yeah, I could believe it.
I have no idea. It's weird. Probably, if I had to guess, knowing what I know about the supplement industry and the food industry in general, a lot of the times, multiple companies are buying from the same distributor. So my guess is something like that is happening. Ultimately, I don't really care because the fact that the products that I use are all tested anyways.
I have no idea. It's weird. Probably, if I had to guess, knowing what I know about the supplement industry and the food industry in general, a lot of the times, multiple companies are buying from the same distributor. So my guess is something like that is happening. Ultimately, I don't really care because the fact that the products that I use are all tested anyways.
I have no idea. It's weird. Probably, if I had to guess, knowing what I know about the supplement industry and the food industry in general, a lot of the times, multiple companies are buying from the same distributor. So my guess is something like that is happening. Ultimately, I don't really care because the fact that the products that I use are all tested anyways.
And there are other companies that make good stuff too in the supplement world, but I just particularly prefer Momentus. So if you don't like them for whatever reason, great, find another one. But just whatever you do, especially for things like supplements and food-based products, just make sure that they're at the same kind of level of testing. If they do, then fine, go with somebody else.
And there are other companies that make good stuff too in the supplement world, but I just particularly prefer Momentus. So if you don't like them for whatever reason, great, find another one. But just whatever you do, especially for things like supplements and food-based products, just make sure that they're at the same kind of level of testing. If they do, then fine, go with somebody else.
And there are other companies that make good stuff too in the supplement world, but I just particularly prefer Momentus. So if you don't like them for whatever reason, great, find another one. But just whatever you do, especially for things like supplements and food-based products, just make sure that they're at the same kind of level of testing. If they do, then fine, go with somebody else.
If they don't, though, be careful.
If they don't, though, be careful.
If they don't, though, be careful.
Well, okay, actually, number one, you don't necessarily unless your company's... This is ridiculous. It sounds like we're doing a giant ad for Momentus.
Well, okay, actually, number one, you don't necessarily unless your company's... This is ridiculous. It sounds like we're doing a giant ad for Momentus.
Well, okay, actually, number one, you don't necessarily unless your company's... This is ridiculous. It sounds like we're doing a giant ad for Momentus.
I swear. Companies like Momentous, though, will let that testing available. So see it. Show me the testing results, right? The other way is, and this is something we don't talk about very often, but we will routinely see heavy metals and other toxins in people's blood work. And then you go back and see, oh, they stopped taking...
I swear. Companies like Momentous, though, will let that testing available. So see it. Show me the testing results, right? The other way is, and this is something we don't talk about very often, but we will routinely see heavy metals and other toxins in people's blood work. And then you go back and see, oh, they stopped taking...
I swear. Companies like Momentous, though, will let that testing available. So see it. Show me the testing results, right? The other way is, and this is something we don't talk about very often, but we will routinely see heavy metals and other toxins in people's blood work. And then you go back and see, oh, they stopped taking...
those supplements from non-tested places or places that say that they're tested, but they're not. And you don't know it's from them, right? Things like mercury could be from anywhere, right? Totally, right? Or even lead could be a thousand places, right? And so not every time, but many times, the only change we make is we stop taking those low quality supplements. And then guess what happens?
those supplements from non-tested places or places that say that they're tested, but they're not. And you don't know it's from them, right? Things like mercury could be from anywhere, right? Totally, right? Or even lead could be a thousand places, right? And so not every time, but many times, the only change we make is we stop taking those low quality supplements. And then guess what happens?
those supplements from non-tested places or places that say that they're tested, but they're not. And you don't know it's from them, right? Things like mercury could be from anywhere, right? Totally, right? Or even lead could be a thousand places, right? And so not every time, but many times, the only change we make is we stop taking those low quality supplements. And then guess what happens?
It's gone in their blood. Really? So there's many steps in logic. I jumped there. That would be a bad science experiment if I just said it that way. I didn't control for all variables. Generally, toxin in blood are acute exposures anyways. They clear. But it's happened enough times where I'm like, all right, you got to stop taking those crappy supplements.
It's gone in their blood. Really? So there's many steps in logic. I jumped there. That would be a bad science experiment if I just said it that way. I didn't control for all variables. Generally, toxin in blood are acute exposures anyways. They clear. But it's happened enough times where I'm like, all right, you got to stop taking those crappy supplements.
It's gone in their blood. Really? So there's many steps in logic. I jumped there. That would be a bad science experiment if I just said it that way. I didn't control for all variables. Generally, toxin in blood are acute exposures anyways. They clear. But it's happened enough times where I'm like, all right, you got to stop taking those crappy supplements.
I'd have to know exactly what the person said, but I can add a couple of things to that. Number one, if you're going to compare something like a whole food to the fruit juice.
I'd have to know exactly what the person said, but I can add a couple of things to that. Number one, if you're going to compare something like a whole food to the fruit juice.
I'd have to know exactly what the person said, but I can add a couple of things to that. Number one, if you're going to compare something like a whole food to the fruit juice.
I'm getting there. I'm getting there.
I'm getting there. I'm getting there.
I'm getting there. I'm getting there.
So let's start where we all agree.
So let's start where we all agree.
So let's start where we all agree.
Everyone would agree with that, right? Why we're missing the fiber intake almost exclusively, right? Fiber is going to mitigate blood glucose spikes and elevation. Great. Second step then is what if I take that whole apple, banana, peach, whatever it is, eat it as a whole apple versus blend it up? Well, you'll actually see the same thing with meat. A steak versus ground meat.
Everyone would agree with that, right? Why we're missing the fiber intake almost exclusively, right? Fiber is going to mitigate blood glucose spikes and elevation. Great. Second step then is what if I take that whole apple, banana, peach, whatever it is, eat it as a whole apple versus blend it up? Well, you'll actually see the same thing with meat. A steak versus ground meat.
Everyone would agree with that, right? Why we're missing the fiber intake almost exclusively, right? Fiber is going to mitigate blood glucose spikes and elevation. Great. Second step then is what if I take that whole apple, banana, peach, whatever it is, eat it as a whole apple versus blend it up? Well, you'll actually see the same thing with meat. A steak versus ground meat.
Ground meat versus actually blended meat because these studies have been done. You blend it up and you drink the meat.
Ground meat versus actually blended meat because these studies have been done. You blend it up and you drink the meat.
Ground meat versus actually blended meat because these studies have been done. You blend it up and you drink the meat.
Yeah, yeah. For this exact reason. It is what happens if I pre-digest, basically, pre-break down the food item. There are differences. There are differences in absorption. The amount that you actually get from the gut actually into the rest of your system is kind of how you can think about that. There are differences.
Yeah, yeah. For this exact reason. It is what happens if I pre-digest, basically, pre-break down the food item. There are differences. There are differences in absorption. The amount that you actually get from the gut actually into the rest of your system is kind of how you can think about that. There are differences.
Yeah, yeah. For this exact reason. It is what happens if I pre-digest, basically, pre-break down the food item. There are differences. There are differences in absorption. The amount that you actually get from the gut actually into the rest of your system is kind of how you can think about that. There are differences.
That said, how much of a difference in that particular example of if I ate that peach or if I blended it up, how much more would that cause my blood glucose to spike? I would probably, if they showed me data that said it spiked it more when you blended it, for those other reasons, I'd believe it. Does it do it to a magnitude that I care about? I don't know. Maybe. I don't know the data.
That said, how much of a difference in that particular example of if I ate that peach or if I blended it up, how much more would that cause my blood glucose to spike? I would probably, if they showed me data that said it spiked it more when you blended it, for those other reasons, I'd believe it. Does it do it to a magnitude that I care about? I don't know. Maybe. I don't know the data.
That said, how much of a difference in that particular example of if I ate that peach or if I blended it up, how much more would that cause my blood glucose to spike? I would probably, if they showed me data that said it spiked it more when you blended it, for those other reasons, I'd believe it. Does it do it to a magnitude that I care about? I don't know. Maybe. I don't know the data.
I don't know the specific study that they're referring to. My initial skepticism, you can see there. I don't know if I would care enough. But it's plausible based on what I do know from studies in a very similar realm. So I'd say plausible, but I don't know. I don't really do that very often, so I'm not super worried about it.
I don't know the specific study that they're referring to. My initial skepticism, you can see there. I don't know if I would care enough. But it's plausible based on what I do know from studies in a very similar realm. So I'd say plausible, but I don't know. I don't really do that very often, so I'm not super worried about it.
I don't know the specific study that they're referring to. My initial skepticism, you can see there. I don't know if I would care enough. But it's plausible based on what I do know from studies in a very similar realm. So I'd say plausible, but I don't know. I don't really do that very often, so I'm not super worried about it.
It depends on how far up or down that priority list it is for you. If everything else is really dialed and this is the last little thing to figure out, then maybe this is making a big enough of an impact.
It depends on how far up or down that priority list it is for you. If everything else is really dialed and this is the last little thing to figure out, then maybe this is making a big enough of an impact.
It depends on how far up or down that priority list it is for you. If everything else is really dialed and this is the last little thing to figure out, then maybe this is making a big enough of an impact.
But if we're still worrying about this over top of the other big rocks we talked about earlier, you're eating 20 grams of protein a day, you're having irregular sleep schedule, then I'd be like, dude, you're way focused on the wrong thing. So it could be real, but whether you need to focus on it or pay attention to it would be up to what the individual situation is.
But if we're still worrying about this over top of the other big rocks we talked about earlier, you're eating 20 grams of protein a day, you're having irregular sleep schedule, then I'd be like, dude, you're way focused on the wrong thing. So it could be real, but whether you need to focus on it or pay attention to it would be up to what the individual situation is.
But if we're still worrying about this over top of the other big rocks we talked about earlier, you're eating 20 grams of protein a day, you're having irregular sleep schedule, then I'd be like, dude, you're way focused on the wrong thing. So it could be real, but whether you need to focus on it or pay attention to it would be up to what the individual situation is.
Or missing a meal or whatever the case is, right? So would I rather have you blend your banana strawberry smoothie rather than just going to the store and buying a, yes, it's still whole real food. It's still better probably than adding additional processing steps to it. Totally, totally.
Or missing a meal or whatever the case is, right? So would I rather have you blend your banana strawberry smoothie rather than just going to the store and buying a, yes, it's still whole real food. It's still better probably than adding additional processing steps to it. Totally, totally.
Or missing a meal or whatever the case is, right? So would I rather have you blend your banana strawberry smoothie rather than just going to the store and buying a, yes, it's still whole real food. It's still better probably than adding additional processing steps to it. Totally, totally.
And I don't know, if it represents some marginal increase in blood glucose elevation, just go for a walk and it's all gone. So who cares? It's pretty easy to manage.
And I don't know, if it represents some marginal increase in blood glucose elevation, just go for a walk and it's all gone. So who cares? It's pretty easy to manage.
And I don't know, if it represents some marginal increase in blood glucose elevation, just go for a walk and it's all gone. So who cares? It's pretty easy to manage.
Yeah, it helps with, I mean, darn near everything, from short and long-term gut health to mitigating blood glucose elevation to nutrient absorption to helping manage cholesterol levels, a ton of other reasons to go after it. I would say, in general, we've probably increased fiber intake more than we've done the opposite.
Yeah, it helps with, I mean, darn near everything, from short and long-term gut health to mitigating blood glucose elevation to nutrient absorption to helping manage cholesterol levels, a ton of other reasons to go after it. I would say, in general, we've probably increased fiber intake more than we've done the opposite.
Yeah, it helps with, I mean, darn near everything, from short and long-term gut health to mitigating blood glucose elevation to nutrient absorption to helping manage cholesterol levels, a ton of other reasons to go after it. I would say, in general, we've probably increased fiber intake more than we've done the opposite.
And I say that because there actually have been, and we just had one last week, Young 32-year-old guy is just on top of everything. Lots of IBS symptoms, was just convinced he had something happening with gut health or whatever. Okay, run stool tests, things like that. Take a look at it and he's eating like 50 grams of fiber a day. Okay, what's that mean?
And I say that because there actually have been, and we just had one last week, Young 32-year-old guy is just on top of everything. Lots of IBS symptoms, was just convinced he had something happening with gut health or whatever. Okay, run stool tests, things like that. Take a look at it and he's eating like 50 grams of fiber a day. Okay, what's that mean?
And I say that because there actually have been, and we just had one last week, Young 32-year-old guy is just on top of everything. Lots of IBS symptoms, was just convinced he had something happening with gut health or whatever. Okay, run stool tests, things like that. Take a look at it and he's eating like 50 grams of fiber a day. Okay, what's that mean?
The kind of rule of thumb we say is for every thousand calories you eat, you want to eat around 14 or so grams of fiber. So if you're eating 2,000 calories, you should be having, that would be 28 grams of fiber, which would mean, all right, somewhere between 25 and 30, like, you know, plus or minus. These numbers, like, don't get too specific with them.
The kind of rule of thumb we say is for every thousand calories you eat, you want to eat around 14 or so grams of fiber. So if you're eating 2,000 calories, you should be having, that would be 28 grams of fiber, which would mean, all right, somewhere between 25 and 30, like, you know, plus or minus. These numbers, like, don't get too specific with them.
The kind of rule of thumb we say is for every thousand calories you eat, you want to eat around 14 or so grams of fiber. So if you're eating 2,000 calories, you should be having, that would be 28 grams of fiber, which would mean, all right, somewhere between 25 and 30, like, you know, plus or minus. These numbers, like, don't get too specific with them.
If you're at 3,000 calories a day, maybe something like 40, 50 grams of fiber a day. So when I saw he's like 50 grams of fiber a day, I'm like, oh, okay, you must be at a pretty high calorie load. Calorie load was like 1,800. And I was like, oh, well, I know why you think you have IBS. You have triple the fiber intake. And that's going to tear your stomach to pieces, right?
If you're at 3,000 calories a day, maybe something like 40, 50 grams of fiber a day. So when I saw he's like 50 grams of fiber a day, I'm like, oh, okay, you must be at a pretty high calorie load. Calorie load was like 1,800. And I was like, oh, well, I know why you think you have IBS. You have triple the fiber intake. And that's going to tear your stomach to pieces, right?
If you're at 3,000 calories a day, maybe something like 40, 50 grams of fiber a day. So when I saw he's like 50 grams of fiber a day, I'm like, oh, okay, you must be at a pretty high calorie load. Calorie load was like 1,800. And I was like, oh, well, I know why you think you have IBS. You have triple the fiber intake. And that's going to tear your stomach to pieces, right?
We also see this a lot with people that are really health conscious or trying to be really health conscious. And they jack up insoluble fiber really high on accident. They do things like, okay, I'm going to cut out all my starches. I'm not going to eat any more pasta, no more grains. And I'm eating all vegetables and their broccoli intake. They're eating three cups of broccoli per meal.
We also see this a lot with people that are really health conscious or trying to be really health conscious. And they jack up insoluble fiber really high on accident. They do things like, okay, I'm going to cut out all my starches. I'm not going to eat any more pasta, no more grains. And I'm eating all vegetables and their broccoli intake. They're eating three cups of broccoli per meal.
We also see this a lot with people that are really health conscious or trying to be really health conscious. And they jack up insoluble fiber really high on accident. They do things like, okay, I'm going to cut out all my starches. I'm not going to eat any more pasta, no more grains. And I'm eating all vegetables and their broccoli intake. They're eating three cups of broccoli per meal.
And all of a sudden they're just like, damn, and I'm getting like all this bloating. And I'm like, well, yeah. Yeah. How about we switch out a cup of broccoli and put in a pizza?
And all of a sudden they're just like, damn, and I'm getting like all this bloating. And I'm like, well, yeah. Yeah. How about we switch out a cup of broccoli and put in a pizza?
And all of a sudden they're just like, damn, and I'm getting like all this bloating. And I'm like, well, yeah. Yeah. How about we switch out a cup of broccoli and put in a pizza?
Really?
Really?
Really?
And all of a sudden they're like, yeah, my GI problems are going away. I'm like, well, no kidding.
And all of a sudden they're like, yeah, my GI problems are going away. I'm like, well, no kidding.
And all of a sudden they're like, yeah, my GI problems are going away. I'm like, well, no kidding.
Because remember, there's two types of fiber. There's soluble fiber and insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber, here's a clear difference. If you took a glass of water and put it on the table and you put something in that water, if it would get soggy and soak up the water, like imagine putting a piece of bread in water. Fill up, okay? That is a soluble fiber. If you put a piece of broccoli in water,
Because remember, there's two types of fiber. There's soluble fiber and insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber, here's a clear difference. If you took a glass of water and put it on the table and you put something in that water, if it would get soggy and soak up the water, like imagine putting a piece of bread in water. Fill up, okay? That is a soluble fiber. If you put a piece of broccoli in water,
Because remember, there's two types of fiber. There's soluble fiber and insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber, here's a clear difference. If you took a glass of water and put it on the table and you put something in that water, if it would get soggy and soak up the water, like imagine putting a piece of bread in water. Fill up, okay? That is a soluble fiber. If you put a piece of broccoli in water,
it wouldn't do anything. That is insoluble, right? Well, the same thing happens in your GI tract. So both soluble and insoluble fiber are really healthy. They're really good for you, but they have different functions. So if you get a ton of soluble fiber, and you don't have insoluble fiber in there, like boom, things will shoot through.
it wouldn't do anything. That is insoluble, right? Well, the same thing happens in your GI tract. So both soluble and insoluble fiber are really healthy. They're really good for you, but they have different functions. So if you get a ton of soluble fiber, and you don't have insoluble fiber in there, like boom, things will shoot through.
it wouldn't do anything. That is insoluble, right? Well, the same thing happens in your GI tract. So both soluble and insoluble fiber are really healthy. They're really good for you, but they have different functions. So if you get a ton of soluble fiber, and you don't have insoluble fiber in there, like boom, things will shoot through.
You'll go, probably go like really constipated and then boom, diarrhea or like pretty new story, right? If you do the opposite and you jack insoluble fiber up way too high, you could just really have like tons of bowel movements. Maybe you're not watery, maybe not. Or you could, again, feel constipated.
You'll go, probably go like really constipated and then boom, diarrhea or like pretty new story, right? If you do the opposite and you jack insoluble fiber up way too high, you could just really have like tons of bowel movements. Maybe you're not watery, maybe not. Or you could, again, feel constipated.
You'll go, probably go like really constipated and then boom, diarrhea or like pretty new story, right? If you do the opposite and you jack insoluble fiber up way too high, you could just really have like tons of bowel movements. Maybe you're not watery, maybe not. Or you could, again, feel constipated.
So both of these things could be causing either end of that spectrum, depending on where they're at. So when you just have way too much fiber intake, especially in a quick span. So you've just made this change. You went from eating like eight or 10 grams of fiber a day to now eating 35. You're going to just go bam.
So both of these things could be causing either end of that spectrum, depending on where they're at. So when you just have way too much fiber intake, especially in a quick span. So you've just made this change. You went from eating like eight or 10 grams of fiber a day to now eating 35. You're going to just go bam.
So both of these things could be causing either end of that spectrum, depending on where they're at. So when you just have way too much fiber intake, especially in a quick span. So you've just made this change. You went from eating like eight or 10 grams of fiber a day to now eating 35. You're going to just go bam.
Like your stomach is going to have one of two reactions and neither of them you want.
Like your stomach is going to have one of two reactions and neither of them you want.
Like your stomach is going to have one of two reactions and neither of them you want.
That's the majority. I would probably say 90% of the time we've happened to give people more fiber. 10% of the time have been people eating like too much fiber. I would say if you had to pick one error on the side of 40% too much fiber rather than 3% too little.
That's the majority. I would probably say 90% of the time we've happened to give people more fiber. 10% of the time have been people eating like too much fiber. I would say if you had to pick one error on the side of 40% too much fiber rather than 3% too little.
That's the majority. I would probably say 90% of the time we've happened to give people more fiber. 10% of the time have been people eating like too much fiber. I would say if you had to pick one error on the side of 40% too much fiber rather than 3% too little.
Like really you want to make sure you're at or above the number, but if you're going crazy and you made all these changes and it's new to you, it's the change that matters, right? So if your GI system's not ready for that, And all of a sudden you're just like, man, I'm eating all these healthy foods and oh my God, my stomach is, I'm just gassy and like all these problems.
Like really you want to make sure you're at or above the number, but if you're going crazy and you made all these changes and it's new to you, it's the change that matters, right? So if your GI system's not ready for that, And all of a sudden you're just like, man, I'm eating all these healthy foods and oh my God, my stomach is, I'm just gassy and like all these problems.
Like really you want to make sure you're at or above the number, but if you're going crazy and you made all these changes and it's new to you, it's the change that matters, right? So if your GI system's not ready for that, And all of a sudden you're just like, man, I'm eating all these healthy foods and oh my God, my stomach is, I'm just gassy and like all these problems.
Then maybe tone down the broccoli, you know, for a little bit and get some easier to digest forms of fiber for a little bit. Then maybe work your way back up if you need to at all. But yes, most people are not eating enough fiber.
Then maybe tone down the broccoli, you know, for a little bit and get some easier to digest forms of fiber for a little bit. Then maybe work your way back up if you need to at all. But yes, most people are not eating enough fiber.
Then maybe tone down the broccoli, you know, for a little bit and get some easier to digest forms of fiber for a little bit. Then maybe work your way back up if you need to at all. But yes, most people are not eating enough fiber.
You can. We have used these a lot, whether they are things like FiberMend from Thorne is great, or Metamucil, right? Like psyllium husk, like lots of different things like that you can do.
You can. We have used these a lot, whether they are things like FiberMend from Thorne is great, or Metamucil, right? Like psyllium husk, like lots of different things like that you can do.
You can. We have used these a lot, whether they are things like FiberMend from Thorne is great, or Metamucil, right? Like psyllium husk, like lots of different things like that you can do.
BioMe?
BioMe?
BioMe?
We've used those in times probably most often when, and this is not me, we have medical doctors and things like that on our team that'll do, if you actually have a gut problem, let me fix your gut, right? That's a big part of those gut healing protocols, right? But where we have used them more are things like in caloric deficits.
We've used those in times probably most often when, and this is not me, we have medical doctors and things like that on our team that'll do, if you actually have a gut problem, let me fix your gut, right? That's a big part of those gut healing protocols, right? But where we have used them more are things like in caloric deficits.
We've used those in times probably most often when, and this is not me, we have medical doctors and things like that on our team that'll do, if you actually have a gut problem, let me fix your gut, right? That's a big part of those gut healing protocols, right? But where we have used them more are things like in caloric deficits.
So as calories come down, sometimes micronutrients, vitamins, minerals come down. This is when supplements and stuff start to come into the equation, right? And oftentimes, a lot of the athletes we work with or general population will go through phases of caloric restriction. And then if fiber starts to get hurt there, we'll bring in then fiber as a supplement.
So as calories come down, sometimes micronutrients, vitamins, minerals come down. This is when supplements and stuff start to come into the equation, right? And oftentimes, a lot of the athletes we work with or general population will go through phases of caloric restriction. And then if fiber starts to get hurt there, we'll bring in then fiber as a supplement.
So as calories come down, sometimes micronutrients, vitamins, minerals come down. This is when supplements and stuff start to come into the equation, right? And oftentimes, a lot of the athletes we work with or general population will go through phases of caloric restriction. And then if fiber starts to get hurt there, we'll bring in then fiber as a supplement.
I usually would rather get fiber from whole food, but we will turn to supplements in those particular cases. And it's really helpful, particularly during those last few weeks. and you're just like, man, not really regular right now, and you're like, okay, great, and we can take some psyllium husk or something like that and get your stomach to not feel so suboptimal, then it's pretty helpful.
I usually would rather get fiber from whole food, but we will turn to supplements in those particular cases. And it's really helpful, particularly during those last few weeks. and you're just like, man, not really regular right now, and you're like, okay, great, and we can take some psyllium husk or something like that and get your stomach to not feel so suboptimal, then it's pretty helpful.
I usually would rather get fiber from whole food, but we will turn to supplements in those particular cases. And it's really helpful, particularly during those last few weeks. and you're just like, man, not really regular right now, and you're like, okay, great, and we can take some psyllium husk or something like that and get your stomach to not feel so suboptimal, then it's pretty helpful.
Supplements should be thought of as supplements. have good relationships, drink water, see the sunlight, move. This is all the stuff that changes your life. Now, if we want to add some little ice cream on top, this is where supplements come in. And so we use supplements quite regularly. Supplements do work.
Supplements should be thought of as supplements. have good relationships, drink water, see the sunlight, move. This is all the stuff that changes your life. Now, if we want to add some little ice cream on top, this is where supplements come in. And so we use supplements quite regularly. Supplements do work.
Supplements should be thought of as supplements. have good relationships, drink water, see the sunlight, move. This is all the stuff that changes your life. Now, if we want to add some little ice cream on top, this is where supplements come in. And so we use supplements quite regularly. Supplements do work.
When people say things like supplements are a scam, they don't work, I just don't think they can read. I'm generally considering thinking they cannot physically read.
When people say things like supplements are a scam, they don't work, I just don't think they can read. I'm generally considering thinking they cannot physically read.
When people say things like supplements are a scam, they don't work, I just don't think they can read. I'm generally considering thinking they cannot physically read.
Yeah, well, there are thousands of studies on supplements, right? They're being kind of jerks when they say that, but what they're trying to say is, Supplements don't have the magnitude of impact that most people think. And that's true. So they do work, but they generally don't work like people think. It's uncommon for you to take one supplement and your life changes.
Yeah, well, there are thousands of studies on supplements, right? They're being kind of jerks when they say that, but what they're trying to say is, Supplements don't have the magnitude of impact that most people think. And that's true. So they do work, but they generally don't work like people think. It's uncommon for you to take one supplement and your life changes.
Yeah, well, there are thousands of studies on supplements, right? They're being kind of jerks when they say that, but what they're trying to say is, Supplements don't have the magnitude of impact that most people think. And that's true. So they do work, but they generally don't work like people think. It's uncommon for you to take one supplement and your life changes.
That's not the kind of impact supplements tend to have. If you want numbers, I don't know, if I had to add every supplement in the whole world together, I'd probably say most supplements change whatever you're measuring by 3% to 10%. It's not 50%. Yeah, it's not that much. It's not 90%. But if you're at a certain level where you've done the big stuff, that does move the needle by 90% or 200%.
That's not the kind of impact supplements tend to have. If you want numbers, I don't know, if I had to add every supplement in the whole world together, I'd probably say most supplements change whatever you're measuring by 3% to 10%. It's not 50%. Yeah, it's not that much. It's not 90%. But if you're at a certain level where you've done the big stuff, that does move the needle by 90% or 200%.
That's not the kind of impact supplements tend to have. If you want numbers, I don't know, if I had to add every supplement in the whole world together, I'd probably say most supplements change whatever you're measuring by 3% to 10%. It's not 50%. Yeah, it's not that much. It's not 90%. But if you're at a certain level where you've done the big stuff, that does move the needle by 90% or 200%.
And you are looking for that last 5% or 10%. Well, now a supplement can potentially do that. Now, there are some supplements... like a fish oil. That will move the needle in those really big numbers, like fiber potentially. And then there are others like a creatine, where the impact is more gonna be in that three to 10% range, but the safety profile's high.
And you are looking for that last 5% or 10%. Well, now a supplement can potentially do that. Now, there are some supplements... like a fish oil. That will move the needle in those really big numbers, like fiber potentially. And then there are others like a creatine, where the impact is more gonna be in that three to 10% range, but the safety profile's high.
And you are looking for that last 5% or 10%. Well, now a supplement can potentially do that. Now, there are some supplements... like a fish oil. That will move the needle in those really big numbers, like fiber potentially. And then there are others like a creatine, where the impact is more gonna be in that three to 10% range, but the safety profile's high.
They've been tested in every clinical population you can imagine, from brain damage to brain injuries to neurological disorders to pregnancy to kids to weight loss to young to old, right? And they very rarely have any negative side effects of any. And they generally improve a wide range of outcomes, like lean muscle, like brain health, like mood, like cognitive function. They're not doing a lot.
They've been tested in every clinical population you can imagine, from brain damage to brain injuries to neurological disorders to pregnancy to kids to weight loss to young to old, right? And they very rarely have any negative side effects of any. And they generally improve a wide range of outcomes, like lean muscle, like brain health, like mood, like cognitive function. They're not doing a lot.
They've been tested in every clinical population you can imagine, from brain damage to brain injuries to neurological disorders to pregnancy to kids to weight loss to young to old, right? And they very rarely have any negative side effects of any. And they generally improve a wide range of outcomes, like lean muscle, like brain health, like mood, like cognitive function. They're not doing a lot.
They're not at the same order of magnitude as a drug would do. But this is a context. So if you hear that and you think, oh, I knew it, they're a scam. Thank you.
They're not at the same order of magnitude as a drug would do. But this is a context. So if you hear that and you think, oh, I knew it, they're a scam. Thank you.
They're not at the same order of magnitude as a drug would do. But this is a context. So if you hear that and you think, oh, I knew it, they're a scam. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know what I love about it the most? other than like being happy for him. He's so punk. He only ever does things the way he wants to do it. And from the gate, like he didn't do any things of like, oh, you have to do this to optimize. You have to do this. He's just like, no. Like I'm just like, and if it works, it works great. Like whatever.
You know what I love about it the most? other than like being happy for him. He's so punk. He only ever does things the way he wants to do it. And from the gate, like he didn't do any things of like, oh, you have to do this to optimize. You have to do this. He's just like, no. Like I'm just like, and if it works, it works great. Like whatever.
You know what I love about it the most? other than like being happy for him. He's so punk. He only ever does things the way he wants to do it. And from the gate, like he didn't do any things of like, oh, you have to do this to optimize. You have to do this. He's just like, no. Like I'm just like, and if it works, it works great. Like whatever.
Not from an arrogance perspective, but just being like true to himself. And like, this is what he wants to do. This is a topic he wants to talk about. These are the papers he wants to read. I'm like, that's what he's going to do. I like knowing that. It's great. It's great. Like no one deserves it more than he does.
Not from an arrogance perspective, but just being like true to himself. And like, this is what he wants to do. This is a topic he wants to talk about. These are the papers he wants to read. I'm like, that's what he's going to do. I like knowing that. It's great. It's great. Like no one deserves it more than he does.
Not from an arrogance perspective, but just being like true to himself. And like, this is what he wants to do. This is a topic he wants to talk about. These are the papers he wants to read. I'm like, that's what he's going to do. I like knowing that. It's great. It's great. Like no one deserves it more than he does.
Well, get in line with all the other people that— I don't want to get in line. He promised. Why does he promise? He shouldn't do that, though. You know, honestly, people get mad at him about this, but this is a—
Well, get in line with all the other people that— I don't want to get in line. He promised. Why does he promise? He shouldn't do that, though. You know, honestly, people get mad at him about this, but this is a—
Well, get in line with all the other people that— I don't want to get in line. He promised. Why does he promise? He shouldn't do that, though. You know, honestly, people get mad at him about this, but this is a—
here's what will happen with him he will genuinely be excited like super excited to do something and want to do it and he'll say yes and then he'll look at his calendar and it is going and he's like damn damn damn and then it just gets buried on the thing so it's not disingenuous at all when he says yes to something he legitimately is very excited about it and then reality sets in of like travel schedule and other things and it just like can't physically happen
here's what will happen with him he will genuinely be excited like super excited to do something and want to do it and he'll say yes and then he'll look at his calendar and it is going and he's like damn damn damn and then it just gets buried on the thing so it's not disingenuous at all when he says yes to something he legitimately is very excited about it and then reality sets in of like travel schedule and other things and it just like can't physically happen
here's what will happen with him he will genuinely be excited like super excited to do something and want to do it and he'll say yes and then he'll look at his calendar and it is going and he's like damn damn damn and then it just gets buried on the thing so it's not disingenuous at all when he says yes to something he legitimately is very excited about it and then reality sets in of like travel schedule and other things and it just like can't physically happen
So he probably should be better at being more realistic about his commitments. I will say it that way. But it's never like, eh, she's not popular enough or he's not cool. It's always like, yeah, he's super into it.
So he probably should be better at being more realistic about his commitments. I will say it that way. But it's never like, eh, she's not popular enough or he's not cool. It's always like, yeah, he's super into it.
So he probably should be better at being more realistic about his commitments. I will say it that way. But it's never like, eh, she's not popular enough or he's not cool. It's always like, yeah, he's super into it.
I can't promise you. I don't know.
I can't promise you. I don't know.
I can't promise you. I don't know.
It's timing. It's fluke. It's...
It's timing. It's fluke. It's...
It's timing. It's fluke. It's...
It's all the lucky things, right? All right, because I see him on Joe Rogan.
It's all the lucky things, right? All right, because I see him on Joe Rogan.
It's all the lucky things, right? All right, because I see him on Joe Rogan.
So I'll, I'll eat that stuff.
So I'll, I'll eat that stuff.
So I'll, I'll eat that stuff.
I'll eat those things as well as always some fruit in the morning and then generally some starch. And I have a pretty big variety of what I'm going to choose for those categories. Okay.
I'll eat those things as well as always some fruit in the morning and then generally some starch. And I have a pretty big variety of what I'm going to choose for those categories. Okay.
I'll eat those things as well as always some fruit in the morning and then generally some starch. And I have a pretty big variety of what I'm going to choose for those categories. Okay.
You can have too much of anything.
You can have too much of anything.
You can have too much of anything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, calories matter.
Well, calories matter.
Well, calories matter.
Yeah, it doesn't matter, right? Are calories the only thing that matters? No. Is it the most important thing? Maybe not. Is calorie measuring the best dietary system? Maybe not. That doesn't mean calories don't count. There are ways that it looks like the calorie in, calorie out system's not working for you. But that generally means a miscalculation on calories in or calories out, right?
Yeah, it doesn't matter, right? Are calories the only thing that matters? No. Is it the most important thing? Maybe not. Is calorie measuring the best dietary system? Maybe not. That doesn't mean calories don't count. There are ways that it looks like the calorie in, calorie out system's not working for you. But that generally means a miscalculation on calories in or calories out, right?
Yeah, it doesn't matter, right? Are calories the only thing that matters? No. Is it the most important thing? Maybe not. Is calorie measuring the best dietary system? Maybe not. That doesn't mean calories don't count. There are ways that it looks like the calorie in, calorie out system's not working for you. But that generally means a miscalculation on calories in or calories out, right?
Because the body does lots of adaptive things. to mitigate and manage what happens there. So yeah, calories matter. Anything past that is details now, but you can't make an argument that calories just don't exist or matter, right? So all of my supplements are very specific to either my goals at that time and or what's happening in my physiology. So it changes. I don't just take the same thing.
Because the body does lots of adaptive things. to mitigate and manage what happens there. So yeah, calories matter. Anything past that is details now, but you can't make an argument that calories just don't exist or matter, right? So all of my supplements are very specific to either my goals at that time and or what's happening in my physiology. So it changes. I don't just take the same thing.
Because the body does lots of adaptive things. to mitigate and manage what happens there. So yeah, calories matter. Anything past that is details now, but you can't make an argument that calories just don't exist or matter, right? So all of my supplements are very specific to either my goals at that time and or what's happening in my physiology. So it changes. I don't just take the same thing.
Sure.
Sure.
Sure.
somewhat high to none, right? So you're talking about a precursor for glutathione for the most part, right? So it has a, generally you can think of it as like a pretty potent antioxidant. Not something I would tell everyone to take. You have to be really careful, especially with timing of antioxidants, especially powerful ones like that.
somewhat high to none, right? So you're talking about a precursor for glutathione for the most part, right? So it has a, generally you can think of it as like a pretty potent antioxidant. Not something I would tell everyone to take. You have to be really careful, especially with timing of antioxidants, especially powerful ones like that.
somewhat high to none, right? So you're talking about a precursor for glutathione for the most part, right? So it has a, generally you can think of it as like a pretty potent antioxidant. Not something I would tell everyone to take. You have to be really careful, especially with timing of antioxidants, especially powerful ones like that.
If you're trying to induce any physiological adaptation, this comes in response to insult. So you cause an inflammatory response when you exercise. If you then block that inflammatory response with an NSAID, with NAC, with vitamin E, vitamin C, then you will mitigate and block adaptations. Really? This has been shown many times.
If you're trying to induce any physiological adaptation, this comes in response to insult. So you cause an inflammatory response when you exercise. If you then block that inflammatory response with an NSAID, with NAC, with vitamin E, vitamin C, then you will mitigate and block adaptations. Really? This has been shown many times.
If you're trying to induce any physiological adaptation, this comes in response to insult. So you cause an inflammatory response when you exercise. If you then block that inflammatory response with an NSAID, with NAC, with vitamin E, vitamin C, then you will mitigate and block adaptations. Really? This has been shown many times.
You have to take a pretty high amount, but if you're trying to cause stress and then you're stopping the stress from happening, you're stopping the physiological response. But I thought taking antioxidants is a great... Antioxidant supplements are something you should be very conscious of. High antioxidant foods are almost always okay.
You have to take a pretty high amount, but if you're trying to cause stress and then you're stopping the stress from happening, you're stopping the physiological response. But I thought taking antioxidants is a great... Antioxidant supplements are something you should be very conscious of. High antioxidant foods are almost always okay.
You have to take a pretty high amount, but if you're trying to cause stress and then you're stopping the stress from happening, you're stopping the physiological response. But I thought taking antioxidants is a great... Antioxidant supplements are something you should be very conscious of. High antioxidant foods are almost always okay.
So if you're eating more quality foods that are higher in antioxidants, this is almost always a good thing. But now when you're taking them in the form of a medication of a supplement, you're getting extremely high dosage in non-natural combinations, if you will. That becomes really problematic is almost a fair word to say.
So if you're eating more quality foods that are higher in antioxidants, this is almost always a good thing. But now when you're taking them in the form of a medication of a supplement, you're getting extremely high dosage in non-natural combinations, if you will. That becomes really problematic is almost a fair word to say.
So if you're eating more quality foods that are higher in antioxidants, this is almost always a good thing. But now when you're taking them in the form of a medication of a supplement, you're getting extremely high dosage in non-natural combinations, if you will. That becomes really problematic is almost a fair word to say.
What I just explained. So if you're overly suppressing inflammation, inflammation is the signal for adaptation. It is the signal for blood clotting. It is the signal for cognitive change. It is the signal for neuroplasticity. If you're going in and smashing and maximally suppressing that, then you don't have any stimuli for adaptation. Like this becomes a problem.
What I just explained. So if you're overly suppressing inflammation, inflammation is the signal for adaptation. It is the signal for blood clotting. It is the signal for cognitive change. It is the signal for neuroplasticity. If you're going in and smashing and maximally suppressing that, then you don't have any stimuli for adaptation. Like this becomes a problem.
What I just explained. So if you're overly suppressing inflammation, inflammation is the signal for adaptation. It is the signal for blood clotting. It is the signal for cognitive change. It is the signal for neuroplasticity. If you're going in and smashing and maximally suppressing that, then you don't have any stimuli for adaptation. Like this becomes a problem.
So we do not just prophylactically take antioxidants of any kind. If we have a very structured reason for that, then we might put some in there. But then we're going to come off of them as soon as we've done. But we do not just put people on, especially high-powered ones like NAC, and just as like a, yeah, go take this forever thing.
So we do not just prophylactically take antioxidants of any kind. If we have a very structured reason for that, then we might put some in there. But then we're going to come off of them as soon as we've done. But we do not just put people on, especially high-powered ones like NAC, and just as like a, yeah, go take this forever thing.
So we do not just prophylactically take antioxidants of any kind. If we have a very structured reason for that, then we might put some in there. But then we're going to come off of them as soon as we've done. But we do not just put people on, especially high-powered ones like NAC, and just as like a, yeah, go take this forever thing.
Astaxanthin?
Astaxanthin?
Astaxanthin?
Yeah. It's great. That's your blueberry stuff. That's just like the ingredient down the list. And it's one of the many awesome things in blueberries, cherries, and things like that. It's phenomenal. Lots of research on it. It's great. Again, though, I would say the same thing. We're not going to take those unless we have a reason for that.
Yeah. It's great. That's your blueberry stuff. That's just like the ingredient down the list. And it's one of the many awesome things in blueberries, cherries, and things like that. It's phenomenal. Lots of research on it. It's great. Again, though, I would say the same thing. We're not going to take those unless we have a reason for that.
Yeah. It's great. That's your blueberry stuff. That's just like the ingredient down the list. And it's one of the many awesome things in blueberries, cherries, and things like that. It's phenomenal. Lots of research on it. It's great. Again, though, I would say the same thing. We're not going to take those unless we have a reason for that.
Because you have to be conscious of what you're trying to do signaling-wise in your physiology. This is a potent one.
Because you have to be conscious of what you're trying to do signaling-wise in your physiology. This is a potent one.
Because you have to be conscious of what you're trying to do signaling-wise in your physiology. This is a potent one.
No, definitely not the case. You can get away with higher than needed amounts of protein, of fiber. But you start getting into, here's a general rule. If it is a macronutrient, fiber, water, protein, carbs, fat, No big deal if you eat excess, okay? If it is a micronutrient, if it is a vitamin, if it's a water-soluble vitamin, you'll just pee it out.
No, definitely not the case. You can get away with higher than needed amounts of protein, of fiber. But you start getting into, here's a general rule. If it is a macronutrient, fiber, water, protein, carbs, fat, No big deal if you eat excess, okay? If it is a micronutrient, if it is a vitamin, if it's a water-soluble vitamin, you'll just pee it out.
No, definitely not the case. You can get away with higher than needed amounts of protein, of fiber. But you start getting into, here's a general rule. If it is a macronutrient, fiber, water, protein, carbs, fat, No big deal if you eat excess, okay? If it is a micronutrient, if it is a vitamin, if it's a water-soluble vitamin, you'll just pee it out.
So not a big deal for over-consuming water-soluble vitamins usually, with some exceptions, vitamin C, things like that. If you start getting into fat-soluble, and if you specifically get into minerals- be really, really careful of high concentrations of exogenous minerals, iron, calcium, even something like potassium. These can cause real significant and serious issues.
So not a big deal for over-consuming water-soluble vitamins usually, with some exceptions, vitamin C, things like that. If you start getting into fat-soluble, and if you specifically get into minerals- be really, really careful of high concentrations of exogenous minerals, iron, calcium, even something like potassium. These can cause real significant and serious issues.
So not a big deal for over-consuming water-soluble vitamins usually, with some exceptions, vitamin C, things like that. If you start getting into fat-soluble, and if you specifically get into minerals- be really, really careful of high concentrations of exogenous minerals, iron, calcium, even something like potassium. These can cause real significant and serious issues.
So I wouldn't go to any of these things. Phytochemicals are in the same realm. Antioxidants, you really should be conscious of using those things unless you have a reason. If you are training super hard and you're peaking for competition, we might add in some antioxidant supplementation.
So I wouldn't go to any of these things. Phytochemicals are in the same realm. Antioxidants, you really should be conscious of using those things unless you have a reason. If you are training super hard and you're peaking for competition, we might add in some antioxidant supplementation.
So I wouldn't go to any of these things. Phytochemicals are in the same realm. Antioxidants, you really should be conscious of using those things unless you have a reason. If you are training super hard and you're peaking for competition, we might add in some antioxidant supplementation.
If we're in a particular area of the world, let's say, or traveling with a lot of pollutants, or you're going to be interacting with a lot of people and you're worried about, you're going to be sleeping a lot less, and you have other things that are going to suppress your immune system, we might add in some antioxidant support there. But if not, we're not going to touch those things.
If we're in a particular area of the world, let's say, or traveling with a lot of pollutants, or you're going to be interacting with a lot of people and you're worried about, you're going to be sleeping a lot less, and you have other things that are going to suppress your immune system, we might add in some antioxidant support there. But if not, we're not going to touch those things.
If we're in a particular area of the world, let's say, or traveling with a lot of pollutants, or you're going to be interacting with a lot of people and you're worried about, you're going to be sleeping a lot less, and you have other things that are going to suppress your immune system, we might add in some antioxidant support there. But if not, we're not going to touch those things.
Oftentimes, if we're having any immune-related issues, there's something causing it, and we're going to go back and solve that problem, and then just let your immune system and your physiology do what it wants to do and get out of the way.
Oftentimes, if we're having any immune-related issues, there's something causing it, and we're going to go back and solve that problem, and then just let your immune system and your physiology do what it wants to do and get out of the way.
Oftentimes, if we're having any immune-related issues, there's something causing it, and we're going to go back and solve that problem, and then just let your immune system and your physiology do what it wants to do and get out of the way.
I wouldn't take them unless you had a real reason for it.
I wouldn't take them unless you had a real reason for it.
I wouldn't take them unless you had a real reason for it.
Well, again, if you have a reason for it, then... That was three years ago, though. Oh, my God. Well, you're not the same person.
Well, again, if you have a reason for it, then... That was three years ago, though. Oh, my God. Well, you're not the same person.
Well, again, if you have a reason for it, then... That was three years ago, though. Oh, my God. Well, you're not the same person.
Yeah, no, that's... I'd say, like, if you're all, like, at home and you're confused, don't have blood or whatever, if you are leading... an inactive lifestyle, and or you eat a bunch of low-quality food, or you do something that is known to be pretty deleterious, like excessive alcohol or smoking, or you live in a place that has really low air quality.
Yeah, no, that's... I'd say, like, if you're all, like, at home and you're confused, don't have blood or whatever, if you are leading... an inactive lifestyle, and or you eat a bunch of low-quality food, or you do something that is known to be pretty deleterious, like excessive alcohol or smoking, or you live in a place that has really low air quality.
Yeah, no, that's... I'd say, like, if you're all, like, at home and you're confused, don't have blood or whatever, if you are leading... an inactive lifestyle, and or you eat a bunch of low-quality food, or you do something that is known to be pretty deleterious, like excessive alcohol or smoking, or you live in a place that has really low air quality.
Right, exactly. Right. Then, then okay. But if you're checking most of those boxes, I wouldn't, without blood work or without some particular reason, I'd probably stay away from most antioxidant supplements.
Right, exactly. Right. Then, then okay. But if you're checking most of those boxes, I wouldn't, without blood work or without some particular reason, I'd probably stay away from most antioxidant supplements.
Right, exactly. Right. Then, then okay. But if you're checking most of those boxes, I wouldn't, without blood work or without some particular reason, I'd probably stay away from most antioxidant supplements.
You're too busy to coach me. No, no, no, there is. You're going to coach me yourself. We have a program called Optima that I personally coach. You, you're going to coach me. That's me, that's me directly.
You're too busy to coach me. No, no, no, there is. You're going to coach me yourself. We have a program called Optima that I personally coach. You, you're going to coach me. That's me, that's me directly.
You're too busy to coach me. No, no, no, there is. You're going to coach me yourself. We have a program called Optima that I personally coach. You, you're going to coach me. That's me, that's me directly.
I'm going to hire you. Yeah, it's, look into the program.
I'm going to hire you. Yeah, it's, look into the program.
I'm going to hire you. Yeah, it's, look into the program.
It's not a reasonable number that most people can afford.
It's not a reasonable number that most people can afford.
It's not a reasonable number that most people can afford.
No, our coaching program, our full immersion coaching program is one program, one price. That's it.
No, our coaching program, our full immersion coaching program is one program, one price. That's it.
No, our coaching program, our full immersion coaching program is one program, one price. That's it.
10,000.
10,000.
10,000.
So if you want, what you can do
So if you want, what you can do
So if you want, what you can do
I'm not embarrassed. It's just better this way.
I'm not embarrassed. It's just better this way.
I'm not embarrassed. It's just better this way.
You can look in the program and you can see if it's your fit. And you do it yourself. The Optima program, I personally coach. This is where I personally coach.
You can look in the program and you can see if it's your fit. And you do it yourself. The Optima program, I personally coach. This is where I personally coach.
You can look in the program and you can see if it's your fit. And you do it yourself. The Optima program, I personally coach. This is where I personally coach.
Yeah. When I say like I coach, this is not like people in my company. This is literally the people I'm coaching. Then we have a more affordable program that I have built. And I did coach for years and years in. And now I don't personally coach in that line anymore. At the same time, you can do something like just our blood work. So our blood work program is called Vitality. Okay.
Yeah. When I say like I coach, this is not like people in my company. This is literally the people I'm coaching. Then we have a more affordable program that I have built. And I did coach for years and years in. And now I don't personally coach in that line anymore. At the same time, you can do something like just our blood work. So our blood work program is called Vitality. Okay.
Yeah. When I say like I coach, this is not like people in my company. This is literally the people I'm coaching. Then we have a more affordable program that I have built. And I did coach for years and years in. And now I don't personally coach in that line anymore. At the same time, you can do something like just our blood work. So our blood work program is called Vitality. Okay.
This will, it's like about 100 markers, I think, plus or minus.
This will, it's like about 100 markers, I think, plus or minus.
This will, it's like about 100 markers, I think, plus or minus.
Yeah, and then there's, again, probably another several thousand that it's calculating after that. But that will not only pull those markers, it'll analyze, it'll interpret, tell you exactly what all these markers and combinations and cross-reactions mean, and then tell you exactly what to do to not just fix the marker that is high or low, but to fix the cause.
Yeah, and then there's, again, probably another several thousand that it's calculating after that. But that will not only pull those markers, it'll analyze, it'll interpret, tell you exactly what all these markers and combinations and cross-reactions mean, and then tell you exactly what to do to not just fix the marker that is high or low, but to fix the cause.
Yeah, and then there's, again, probably another several thousand that it's calculating after that. But that will not only pull those markers, it'll analyze, it'll interpret, tell you exactly what all these markers and combinations and cross-reactions mean, and then tell you exactly what to do to not just fix the marker that is high or low, but to fix the cause.
It's all automated in software.
It's all automated in software.
It's all automated in software.
So you'll run through it. Your results will come back in. You'll get an alert. You'll pop on and everything will be analyzed, interpreted for you. It can walk you through, hey, this number is high. This is what it means. This is what it's doing. And then do exactly this to correct, maybe not that number, but correct the cause of that problem. And it's all automated for you.
So you'll run through it. Your results will come back in. You'll get an alert. You'll pop on and everything will be analyzed, interpreted for you. It can walk you through, hey, this number is high. This is what it means. This is what it's doing. And then do exactly this to correct, maybe not that number, but correct the cause of that problem. And it's all automated for you.
So you'll run through it. Your results will come back in. You'll get an alert. You'll pop on and everything will be analyzed, interpreted for you. It can walk you through, hey, this number is high. This is what it means. This is what it's doing. And then do exactly this to correct, maybe not that number, but correct the cause of that problem. And it's all automated for you.
Once, a one-time fee. Yeah, and if you buy, of course, semi-annual or multiple, it's cheaper.
Once, a one-time fee. Yeah, and if you buy, of course, semi-annual or multiple, it's cheaper.
Once, a one-time fee. Yeah, and if you buy, of course, semi-annual or multiple, it's cheaper.
You can go to a local lab car or whatever. You can do mobile phlebotomy. I think mobile phlebotomy is a separate charge on top of that, $1,200, but usually it's a couple hundred bucks or less or whatever. Or you can go to a lab car. So you can get into blood work. That's very affordable. Our Absolute Rest Sleep Program is...
You can go to a local lab car or whatever. You can do mobile phlebotomy. I think mobile phlebotomy is a separate charge on top of that, $1,200, but usually it's a couple hundred bucks or less or whatever. Or you can go to a lab car. So you can get into blood work. That's very affordable. Our Absolute Rest Sleep Program is...
You can go to a local lab car or whatever. You can do mobile phlebotomy. I think mobile phlebotomy is a separate charge on top of that, $1,200, but usually it's a couple hundred bucks or less or whatever. Or you can go to a lab car. So you can get into blood work. That's very affordable. Our Absolute Rest Sleep Program is...
It's not at a price where you're like, I want to try that. It's not like a pair of shoes? The blood work program may be like in the number that you're like, oh, okay, I'll try that. Yeah, this is probably more... But this is not, this is like, you better be very serious, because it's almost a year-long program, and so...
It's not at a price where you're like, I want to try that. It's not like a pair of shoes? The blood work program may be like in the number that you're like, oh, okay, I'll try that. Yeah, this is probably more... But this is not, this is like, you better be very serious, because it's almost a year-long program, and so...
It's not at a price where you're like, I want to try that. It's not like a pair of shoes? The blood work program may be like in the number that you're like, oh, okay, I'll try that. Yeah, this is probably more... But this is not, this is like, you better be very serious, because it's almost a year-long program, and so...
Define big.
Define big.
Define big.
We've had the highest contract.
We've had the highest contract.
We've had the highest contract.
And we've had the highest contract in sports probably six or seven times.
And we've had the highest contract in sports probably six or seven times.
And we've had the highest contract in sports probably six or seven times.
Not LeBron. Patrick Mahomes? Not Patrick. Tom Brady. But we have had everything from Travis Barker. I still work with Travis. He's phenomenal. To Fred Warner, who's the number one linebacker in the NFL. Trevor Bauer, he signed the highest contract in Major League Baseball history, won the Cy Young. Jon Rahm. Behind Tiger Woods, you know, very likely the highest paid golfer in the world.
Not LeBron. Patrick Mahomes? Not Patrick. Tom Brady. But we have had everything from Travis Barker. I still work with Travis. He's phenomenal. To Fred Warner, who's the number one linebacker in the NFL. Trevor Bauer, he signed the highest contract in Major League Baseball history, won the Cy Young. Jon Rahm. Behind Tiger Woods, you know, very likely the highest paid golfer in the world.
Not LeBron. Patrick Mahomes? Not Patrick. Tom Brady. But we have had everything from Travis Barker. I still work with Travis. He's phenomenal. To Fred Warner, who's the number one linebacker in the NFL. Trevor Bauer, he signed the highest contract in Major League Baseball history, won the Cy Young. Jon Rahm. Behind Tiger Woods, you know, very likely the highest paid golfer in the world.
Probably a thousand that I'm forgetting at this point. I'm always terrible with remembering. But these are some of the big names that are like right now on the top of our list. But plenty of Hall of Famers, MVPs, Cy Young winners. Again, the highest contract at the time, at least six times.
Probably a thousand that I'm forgetting at this point. I'm always terrible with remembering. But these are some of the big names that are like right now on the top of our list. But plenty of Hall of Famers, MVPs, Cy Young winners. Again, the highest contract at the time, at least six times.
Probably a thousand that I'm forgetting at this point. I'm always terrible with remembering. But these are some of the big names that are like right now on the top of our list. But plenty of Hall of Famers, MVPs, Cy Young winners. Again, the highest contract at the time, at least six times.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you travel all the time? I do a little bit. And then, I mean, I lived here in LA for like 13 years.
Do you travel all the time? I do a little bit. And then, I mean, I lived here in LA for like 13 years.
Do you travel all the time? I do a little bit. And then, I mean, I lived here in LA for like 13 years.
So like Tatiana Suarez.
So like Tatiana Suarez.
So like Tatiana Suarez.
my daughter knows her. They're like best buddies because she'd come to my house and like trains at my house.
my daughter knows her. They're like best buddies because she'd come to my house and like trains at my house.
my daughter knows her. They're like best buddies because she'd come to my house and like trains at my house.
Yeah, Brian Ortega, UFC fighter.
Yeah, Brian Ortega, UFC fighter.
Yeah, Brian Ortega, UFC fighter.
Like he lives here in LA, right? So hundreds of times.
Like he lives here in LA, right? So hundreds of times.
Like he lives here in LA, right? So hundreds of times.
Well, sort of. Like strength and conditioning coaches I know, you weren't really- Generally how we- Like you're not like- But like if you're asking like if I'm in the gym taking them through their training programs, yeah.
Well, sort of. Like strength and conditioning coaches I know, you weren't really- Generally how we- Like you're not like- But like if you're asking like if I'm in the gym taking them through their training programs, yeah.
Well, sort of. Like strength and conditioning coaches I know, you weren't really- Generally how we- Like you're not like- But like if you're asking like if I'm in the gym taking them through their training programs, yeah.
I did that for many, many years. I started actually, I first started coaching professional athletes like in the gym personally in 2003.
I did that for many, many years. I started actually, I first started coaching professional athletes like in the gym personally in 2003.
I did that for many, many years. I started actually, I first started coaching professional athletes like in the gym personally in 2003.
I've had a lot of pro athletes that like I have directly personally coached in my house, in the gym, in different formulas.
I've had a lot of pro athletes that like I have directly personally coached in my house, in the gym, in different formulas.
I've had a lot of pro athletes that like I have directly personally coached in my house, in the gym, in different formulas.
So I'm not in the gym with them as much anymore, like I said.
So I'm not in the gym with them as much anymore, like I said.
So I'm not in the gym with them as much anymore, like I said.
But I'm still actively coaching many of them.
But I'm still actively coaching many of them.
But I'm still actively coaching many of them.
Which is great, too.
Which is great, too.
Which is great, too.
And my interest clearly is in a little bit of all of them.
And my interest clearly is in a little bit of all of them.
And my interest clearly is in a little bit of all of them.
So, I mean, I didn't have... Honestly, I didn't have it in me to be a full-time only strength coach or a full-time only sciences. I much prefer doing kind of a little bit of everything.
So, I mean, I didn't have... Honestly, I didn't have it in me to be a full-time only strength coach or a full-time only sciences. I much prefer doing kind of a little bit of everything.
So, I mean, I didn't have... Honestly, I didn't have it in me to be a full-time only strength coach or a full-time only sciences. I much prefer doing kind of a little bit of everything.
And then having a whole bunch of legitimate experts that I work with to bring in, to be true experts in those fields.
And then having a whole bunch of legitimate experts that I work with to bring in, to be true experts in those fields.
And then having a whole bunch of legitimate experts that I work with to bring in, to be true experts in those fields.
So all of our stuff is like a team approach, right? So we try to bring in the best physical therapist, the best behavioral therapist, the best conditioning coaches, the best medical providers and say like, whatever you need, you're going to get a legitimate world-class individual in that category.
So all of our stuff is like a team approach, right? So we try to bring in the best physical therapist, the best behavioral therapist, the best conditioning coaches, the best medical providers and say like, whatever you need, you're going to get a legitimate world-class individual in that category.
So all of our stuff is like a team approach, right? So we try to bring in the best physical therapist, the best behavioral therapist, the best conditioning coaches, the best medical providers and say like, whatever you need, you're going to get a legitimate world-class individual in that category.
And I generally sit kind of like on the top is a bad way to say it, but I'm kind of the first filter that goes, yo, yo, this is where we need to go.
And I generally sit kind of like on the top is a bad way to say it, but I'm kind of the first filter that goes, yo, yo, this is where we need to go.
And I generally sit kind of like on the top is a bad way to say it, but I'm kind of the first filter that goes, yo, yo, this is where we need to go.
And fruit and starch. Almost always, a few hours into the day, I'm going to have like a 40-gram protein ingestion right now for probably two months straight. That means I'm going to do a double scoop of Momentous. Like, I promise you that's true. I believe you, yep. So I'll hammer that and then maybe another piece of fruit, which makes me feel great.
And fruit and starch. Almost always, a few hours into the day, I'm going to have like a 40-gram protein ingestion right now for probably two months straight. That means I'm going to do a double scoop of Momentous. Like, I promise you that's true. I believe you, yep. So I'll hammer that and then maybe another piece of fruit, which makes me feel great.
And fruit and starch. Almost always, a few hours into the day, I'm going to have like a 40-gram protein ingestion right now for probably two months straight. That means I'm going to do a double scoop of Momentous. Like, I promise you that's true. I believe you, yep. So I'll hammer that and then maybe another piece of fruit, which makes me feel great.
And then we always do lunch and dinner is the same thing. And so we'll make dinner and then double the thing and have it for the next day. So I'll explain to you lunch and it's the same thing as dinner. But it's always a combination of six to eight ounces of meat of various kinds. a giant serving, like an entire plate of vegetables. And this is an enormous variety.
And then we always do lunch and dinner is the same thing. And so we'll make dinner and then double the thing and have it for the next day. So I'll explain to you lunch and it's the same thing as dinner. But it's always a combination of six to eight ounces of meat of various kinds. a giant serving, like an entire plate of vegetables. And this is an enormous variety.
And then we always do lunch and dinner is the same thing. And so we'll make dinner and then double the thing and have it for the next day. So I'll explain to you lunch and it's the same thing as dinner. But it's always a combination of six to eight ounces of meat of various kinds. a giant serving, like an entire plate of vegetables. And this is an enormous variety.
My wife is a tremendous, I won't say chef, but basically a chef. So she makes all kinds of things. Some serving of fat there, whether that's gonna be nuts or a cheese or an oil or avocado, whatever the thing is. And then depending on the day, some varying amount of starch. So quinoa to rice to sweet potatoes to regular potatoes to sourdough bread to like any number of things.
My wife is a tremendous, I won't say chef, but basically a chef. So she makes all kinds of things. Some serving of fat there, whether that's gonna be nuts or a cheese or an oil or avocado, whatever the thing is. And then depending on the day, some varying amount of starch. So quinoa to rice to sweet potatoes to regular potatoes to sourdough bread to like any number of things.
My wife is a tremendous, I won't say chef, but basically a chef. So she makes all kinds of things. Some serving of fat there, whether that's gonna be nuts or a cheese or an oil or avocado, whatever the thing is. And then depending on the day, some varying amount of starch. So quinoa to rice to sweet potatoes to regular potatoes to sourdough bread to like any number of things.
And then the meal in between that could be something like yogurt and nuts or some other thing like that. So you kind of run that thing out and you can see like 200 grams of protein is pretty easy to get to.
And then the meal in between that could be something like yogurt and nuts or some other thing like that. So you kind of run that thing out and you can see like 200 grams of protein is pretty easy to get to.
And then the meal in between that could be something like yogurt and nuts or some other thing like that. So you kind of run that thing out and you can see like 200 grams of protein is pretty easy to get to.
Yeah, like in the afternoons is when I like to train. Sometimes that gets pushed back a little bit.
Yeah, like in the afternoons is when I like to train. Sometimes that gets pushed back a little bit.
Yeah, like in the afternoons is when I like to train. Sometimes that gets pushed back a little bit.
If I'm going to be lifting weights, I'm generally going to be doing full body. I don't do body part splits at all. And then what I do is I will oftentimes rotate like strength training, and then some sort of conditioning.
If I'm going to be lifting weights, I'm generally going to be doing full body. I don't do body part splits at all. And then what I do is I will oftentimes rotate like strength training, and then some sort of conditioning.
If I'm going to be lifting weights, I'm generally going to be doing full body. I don't do body part splits at all. And then what I do is I will oftentimes rotate like strength training, and then some sort of conditioning.
And the reason I do that is, and because my travel schedule is what it is, I would not have success doing like a, I lift legs on Monday, or I just do the next workout the next day I have a chance. That's however I do it, right? So if I have seven days in a row, I'm going to train seven days in a row. Because I might have four days in a row of like terrible travel, right?
And the reason I do that is, and because my travel schedule is what it is, I would not have success doing like a, I lift legs on Monday, or I just do the next workout the next day I have a chance. That's however I do it, right? So if I have seven days in a row, I'm going to train seven days in a row. Because I might have four days in a row of like terrible travel, right?
And the reason I do that is, and because my travel schedule is what it is, I would not have success doing like a, I lift legs on Monday, or I just do the next workout the next day I have a chance. That's however I do it, right? So if I have seven days in a row, I'm going to train seven days in a row. Because I might have four days in a row of like terrible travel, right?
Or nonstop media, blah, blah, blah, right? Where I'm like, okay, there's just no reality of me getting a 45-minute lift in because I got to take my Uber for an hour. Yeah. I don't have three hours of a break, right, because I'm on the road. Or my hotel doesn't have a gym or whatever the case is.
Or nonstop media, blah, blah, blah, right? Where I'm like, okay, there's just no reality of me getting a 45-minute lift in because I got to take my Uber for an hour. Yeah. I don't have three hours of a break, right, because I'm on the road. Or my hotel doesn't have a gym or whatever the case is.
Or nonstop media, blah, blah, blah, right? Where I'm like, okay, there's just no reality of me getting a 45-minute lift in because I got to take my Uber for an hour. Yeah. I don't have three hours of a break, right, because I'm on the road. Or my hotel doesn't have a gym or whatever the case is.
Well, like depending on where you're at, like you get, you know, depending on what city you're in and you're all over the place and timing and things like that, right? Yeah. So I'll just do the next one. So my conditioning could be anything from, you know, like 15 minutes of really high intensity sprint work, or it could be longer duration, lower intensity.
Well, like depending on where you're at, like you get, you know, depending on what city you're in and you're all over the place and timing and things like that, right? Yeah. So I'll just do the next one. So my conditioning could be anything from, you know, like 15 minutes of really high intensity sprint work, or it could be longer duration, lower intensity.
Well, like depending on where you're at, like you get, you know, depending on what city you're in and you're all over the place and timing and things like that, right? Yeah. So I'll just do the next one. So my conditioning could be anything from, you know, like 15 minutes of really high intensity sprint work, or it could be longer duration, lower intensity.
It could be, you know, like an hour walk. It could be all kinds of different stuff I do. And then my workouts are generally going to be, again, like I have a coach. I have a full-time strength conditioning coach for my program.
It could be, you know, like an hour walk. It could be all kinds of different stuff I do. And then my workouts are generally going to be, again, like I have a coach. I have a full-time strength conditioning coach for my program.
It could be, you know, like an hour walk. It could be all kinds of different stuff I do. And then my workouts are generally going to be, again, like I have a coach. I have a full-time strength conditioning coach for my program.
Tim DeFrancesco does my stuff. He was a former strength and conditioning coach for the Lakers. So really, really high level, but like I pay him to write my program.
Tim DeFrancesco does my stuff. He was a former strength and conditioning coach for the Lakers. So really, really high level, but like I pay him to write my program.
Tim DeFrancesco does my stuff. He was a former strength and conditioning coach for the Lakers. So really, really high level, but like I pay him to write my program.
I did my own stuff for decades and it's just, I will never do it again.
I did my own stuff for decades and it's just, I will never do it again.
I did my own stuff for decades and it's just, I will never do it again.
Never. Yeah. So he does all my programs and he's awesome about changing stuff up as I'm going or whatever.
Never. Yeah. So he does all my programs and he's awesome about changing stuff up as I'm going or whatever.
Never. Yeah. So he does all my programs and he's awesome about changing stuff up as I'm going or whatever.
Honestly, personally, when I train, I don't want anybody around.
Honestly, personally, when I train, I don't want anybody around.
Honestly, personally, when I train, I don't want anybody around.
Like my whole life is talking to other people for the most part. I know. Whether it's our companies or my students or whatever. So when I can have an hour to myself, I'm like, I'm out.
Like my whole life is talking to other people for the most part. I know. Whether it's our companies or my students or whatever. So when I can have an hour to myself, I'm like, I'm out.
Like my whole life is talking to other people for the most part. I know. Whether it's our companies or my students or whatever. So when I can have an hour to myself, I'm like, I'm out.
So I love having a remote coach like that. But that's generally what it is. So my day, like that's what I'll eat. That's how I do it. The kids are home. Yeah. Usually like six o'clock, we're doing dinner and then it's like family time the rest of the day. They're in bed at eight o'clock. Eight o'clock is, you know, wife and I time to do whatever. And then it's wake up the next day and do it again.
So I love having a remote coach like that. But that's generally what it is. So my day, like that's what I'll eat. That's how I do it. The kids are home. Yeah. Usually like six o'clock, we're doing dinner and then it's like family time the rest of the day. They're in bed at eight o'clock. Eight o'clock is, you know, wife and I time to do whatever. And then it's wake up the next day and do it again.
So I love having a remote coach like that. But that's generally what it is. So my day, like that's what I'll eat. That's how I do it. The kids are home. Yeah. Usually like six o'clock, we're doing dinner and then it's like family time the rest of the day. They're in bed at eight o'clock. Eight o'clock is, you know, wife and I time to do whatever. And then it's wake up the next day and do it again.
All good, all good.
All good, all good.
All good, all good.
Yeah, I'm in LA somewhat routinely, so we'll definitely do that.
Yeah, I'm in LA somewhat routinely, so we'll definitely do that.
Yeah, I'm in LA somewhat routinely, so we'll definitely do that.
Yeah, well, yeah. I don't know about that, but okay.
Yeah, well, yeah. I don't know about that, but okay.
Yeah, well, yeah. I don't know about that, but okay.
My pleasure. Thank you so much.
My pleasure. Thank you so much.
My pleasure. Thank you so much.
Very reasonable tasting. Oftentimes these things taste terrible.
Very reasonable tasting. Oftentimes these things taste terrible.
Very reasonable tasting. Oftentimes these things taste terrible.
Yeah, beyond that.
Yeah, beyond that.
Yeah, beyond that.
Well, just be careful because I already speak a lot and I go quickly. So if you speak up at all, this might get worse for everybody.
Well, just be careful because I already speak a lot and I go quickly. So if you speak up at all, this might get worse for everybody.
Well, just be careful because I already speak a lot and I go quickly. So if you speak up at all, this might get worse for everybody.
I think actually that's a really good question, first of all, because we define performance quite differently. Ultimately, I'm not a metabolism guy. I'm not a sleep guy. I'm not a muscle growth guy. What I am is a physiologist. And why that matters is I actually don't really particularly care how you yourself define performance.
I think actually that's a really good question, first of all, because we define performance quite differently. Ultimately, I'm not a metabolism guy. I'm not a sleep guy. I'm not a muscle growth guy. What I am is a physiologist. And why that matters is I actually don't really particularly care how you yourself define performance.
I think actually that's a really good question, first of all, because we define performance quite differently. Ultimately, I'm not a metabolism guy. I'm not a sleep guy. I'm not a muscle growth guy. What I am is a physiologist. And why that matters is I actually don't really particularly care how you yourself define performance.
So the people that we coach, whether it's our athletes or our non-athletes, the science we do in my lab, the way that I communicate in the public sphere, it is designed to have somebody be able to come in and say, hey, Andy, I have these goals. I want more mental focus. I want to lose weight. I want to be strong. You tell me the goal.
So the people that we coach, whether it's our athletes or our non-athletes, the science we do in my lab, the way that I communicate in the public sphere, it is designed to have somebody be able to come in and say, hey, Andy, I have these goals. I want more mental focus. I want to lose weight. I want to be strong. You tell me the goal.
So the people that we coach, whether it's our athletes or our non-athletes, the science we do in my lab, the way that I communicate in the public sphere, it is designed to have somebody be able to come in and say, hey, Andy, I have these goals. I want more mental focus. I want to lose weight. I want to be strong. You tell me the goal.
And from my perspective, I'm trying to make sure your physiology aligns with that goal. And so that's why I've had success with NFL players executives, actors, musicians rather, tons of regular people. It's because I'm not focused on that last end of the niche, which is how do I optimize hitting a baseball? Or how do I run the fastest? Or how do I mobilize my big toe the best?
And from my perspective, I'm trying to make sure your physiology aligns with that goal. And so that's why I've had success with NFL players executives, actors, musicians rather, tons of regular people. It's because I'm not focused on that last end of the niche, which is how do I optimize hitting a baseball? Or how do I run the fastest? Or how do I mobilize my big toe the best?
And from my perspective, I'm trying to make sure your physiology aligns with that goal. And so that's why I've had success with NFL players executives, actors, musicians rather, tons of regular people. It's because I'm not focused on that last end of the niche, which is how do I optimize hitting a baseball? Or how do I run the fastest? Or how do I mobilize my big toe the best?
I don't care about that end. What I make sure is that physiology is running at its highest level so that you can then deploy those capabilities however you're defining perform in your unique world. So that's why we've been able to gear our laboratory and our coaching programs in that fashion. And we've had success in so many different areas.
I don't care about that end. What I make sure is that physiology is running at its highest level so that you can then deploy those capabilities however you're defining perform in your unique world. So that's why we've been able to gear our laboratory and our coaching programs in that fashion. And we've had success in so many different areas.
I don't care about that end. What I make sure is that physiology is running at its highest level so that you can then deploy those capabilities however you're defining perform in your unique world. So that's why we've been able to gear our laboratory and our coaching programs in that fashion. And we've had success in so many different areas.
Genetics always matter. They matter for everything, right? There is just no world or reality in which me or you could do any training or modality of any kind and all of a sudden be the top athlete in the world in any sport, right? So clearly genetics matter.
Genetics always matter. They matter for everything, right? There is just no world or reality in which me or you could do any training or modality of any kind and all of a sudden be the top athlete in the world in any sport, right? So clearly genetics matter.
Genetics always matter. They matter for everything, right? There is just no world or reality in which me or you could do any training or modality of any kind and all of a sudden be the top athlete in the world in any sport, right? So clearly genetics matter.
Right? Now, all humans have the same genes. We're 99.9% the same. We all have some very slight variations in one of those allele pairs, one from mom, one from dad. And that's what gives us our unique characteristics, right? So we can all have basically the exact same genome, despite the fact that we are all, a billion of us will never be the same person.
Right? Now, all humans have the same genes. We're 99.9% the same. We all have some very slight variations in one of those allele pairs, one from mom, one from dad. And that's what gives us our unique characteristics, right? So we can all have basically the exact same genome, despite the fact that we are all, a billion of us will never be the same person.
Right? Now, all humans have the same genes. We're 99.9% the same. We all have some very slight variations in one of those allele pairs, one from mom, one from dad. And that's what gives us our unique characteristics, right? So we can all have basically the exact same genome, despite the fact that we are all, a billion of us will never be the same person.
So what that means is, yes, genes are there. Genetic testing for the most part for performance perspectives is almost entirely useless. It doesn't tell us much of anything. Where we become unique, different people is at the next level down, which is what we call the proteome. So your genetics are just a potential to create proteins. What are you actually making? What proteins are made?
So what that means is, yes, genes are there. Genetic testing for the most part for performance perspectives is almost entirely useless. It doesn't tell us much of anything. Where we become unique, different people is at the next level down, which is what we call the proteome. So your genetics are just a potential to create proteins. What are you actually making? What proteins are made?
So what that means is, yes, genes are there. Genetic testing for the most part for performance perspectives is almost entirely useless. It doesn't tell us much of anything. Where we become unique, different people is at the next level down, which is what we call the proteome. So your genetics are just a potential to create proteins. What are you actually making? What proteins are made?
How are they functioning? That's what we're going to measure, right? That's blood work. That is performance testing. That's a hair sample. That's urine, saliva. It's a VO2 max test. Like all of these laboratory tests or emotional tests, like this is all at the level of the protein as a big kind of easy way to say it. So that is what's going to explain your uniqueness.
How are they functioning? That's what we're going to measure, right? That's blood work. That is performance testing. That's a hair sample. That's urine, saliva. It's a VO2 max test. Like all of these laboratory tests or emotional tests, like this is all at the level of the protein as a big kind of easy way to say it. So that is what's going to explain your uniqueness.
How are they functioning? That's what we're going to measure, right? That's blood work. That is performance testing. That's a hair sample. That's urine, saliva. It's a VO2 max test. Like all of these laboratory tests or emotional tests, like this is all at the level of the protein as a big kind of easy way to say it. So that is what's going to explain your uniqueness.
That's why I care about that part, right? Because I actually don't really care what genetics you have because if the net genes aren't or not turned on or off, it's not gonna matter. So it's just a potential. It's sort of like saying, okay, I'm gonna invest in your company Well, you're in the space of protein powder. Okay, great. Well, therefore, I'm gonna give you a billion dollars.
That's why I care about that part, right? Because I actually don't really care what genetics you have because if the net genes aren't or not turned on or off, it's not gonna matter. So it's just a potential. It's sort of like saying, okay, I'm gonna invest in your company Well, you're in the space of protein powder. Okay, great. Well, therefore, I'm gonna give you a billion dollars.
That's why I care about that part, right? Because I actually don't really care what genetics you have because if the net genes aren't or not turned on or off, it's not gonna matter. So it's just a potential. It's sort of like saying, okay, I'm gonna invest in your company Well, you're in the space of protein powder. Okay, great. Well, therefore, I'm gonna give you a billion dollars.
Like, whoa, the company could be great, terrible. Like, just because you're in the protein powder space, it tells me nothing about anything else. Like, that's just a stupid level to stop at. So going to the next level of saying like, what's your revenue? What's your, like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Like, that would be what you actually care about. That is the protein level in our world.
Like, whoa, the company could be great, terrible. Like, just because you're in the protein powder space, it tells me nothing about anything else. Like, that's just a stupid level to stop at. So going to the next level of saying like, what's your revenue? What's your, like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Like, that would be what you actually care about. That is the protein level in our world.
Like, whoa, the company could be great, terrible. Like, just because you're in the protein powder space, it tells me nothing about anything else. Like, that's just a stupid level to stop at. So going to the next level of saying like, what's your revenue? What's your, like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Like, that would be what you actually care about. That is the protein level in our world.
And so getting to that level is actually what allows us to create those individualized plans. And the way that we think about it, we have a program called Arete, A-R-E-T-E, right?
And so getting to that level is actually what allows us to create those individualized plans. And the way that we think about it, we have a program called Arete, A-R-E-T-E, right?
And so getting to that level is actually what allows us to create those individualized plans. And the way that we think about it, we have a program called Arete, A-R-E-T-E, right?
No, I mean, that word arete has been used a trillion times.
No, I mean, that word arete has been used a trillion times.
No, I mean, that word arete has been used a trillion times.
No.
No.
No.
You find there's like construction companies and there's mindset books.
You find there's like construction companies and there's mindset books.
You find there's like construction companies and there's mindset books.
Right. Sure. There's like, no one owns that word. It comes from actual ancient Greek philosophy of reaching your full potential in all areas.
Right. Sure. There's like, no one owns that word. It comes from actual ancient Greek philosophy of reaching your full potential in all areas.
Right. Sure. There's like, no one owns that word. It comes from actual ancient Greek philosophy of reaching your full potential in all areas.
That's all it really stands for.
That's all it really stands for.
That's all it really stands for.
Okay. I've been obsessed with the word since I was a kid. Oh. Right. I've just loved it. I've used it my whole life and things. So other people have too, but nonetheless. Within that program, we get as detailed as possible with testing so that we can provide a simple, straightforward solution. Okay.
Okay. I've been obsessed with the word since I was a kid. Oh. Right. I've just loved it. I've used it my whole life and things. So other people have too, but nonetheless. Within that program, we get as detailed as possible with testing so that we can provide a simple, straightforward solution. Okay.
Okay. I've been obsessed with the word since I was a kid. Oh. Right. I've just loved it. I've used it my whole life and things. So other people have too, but nonetheless. Within that program, we get as detailed as possible with testing so that we can provide a simple, straightforward solution. Okay.
The way to think about that is you can pick your goal. You want to get rid of your headaches. You want to sleep better. You feel fine. You just want to make sure you're optimizing for longevity. Like whatever the particular thing is you're interested in. Fine. No big deal. All right. The next step then is saying, well, what is the constraint in your physiology?
The way to think about that is you can pick your goal. You want to get rid of your headaches. You want to sleep better. You feel fine. You just want to make sure you're optimizing for longevity. Like whatever the particular thing is you're interested in. Fine. No big deal. All right. The next step then is saying, well, what is the constraint in your physiology?
The way to think about that is you can pick your goal. You want to get rid of your headaches. You want to sleep better. You feel fine. You just want to make sure you're optimizing for longevity. Like whatever the particular thing is you're interested in. Fine. No big deal. All right. The next step then is saying, well, what is the constraint in your physiology?
What's the thing that's holding you back the most? What's creating the biggest limitation or problem? Well, you could just start by saying like, well, I'm gonna get really good at hydration or I'm gonna focus on food or I'm gonna do better with meditation. Like there's lots of things you can do. But how do you know which one is gonna make the most impact? You're just guessing.
What's the thing that's holding you back the most? What's creating the biggest limitation or problem? Well, you could just start by saying like, well, I'm gonna get really good at hydration or I'm gonna focus on food or I'm gonna do better with meditation. Like there's lots of things you can do. But how do you know which one is gonna make the most impact? You're just guessing.
What's the thing that's holding you back the most? What's creating the biggest limitation or problem? Well, you could just start by saying like, well, I'm gonna get really good at hydration or I'm gonna focus on food or I'm gonna do better with meditation. Like there's lots of things you can do. But how do you know which one is gonna make the most impact? You're just guessing.
And you might guess right occasionally, but we would prefer the method of saying, well, let's test everything, identify what the biggest constraint or what we call performance anchor is. And now I can give you a program that is hyper-specific to that issue. And so in this particular case, I might say, hey, Jen, you know what? Like meditation is great. It's awesome. We love it all.
And you might guess right occasionally, but we would prefer the method of saying, well, let's test everything, identify what the biggest constraint or what we call performance anchor is. And now I can give you a program that is hyper-specific to that issue. And so in this particular case, I might say, hey, Jen, you know what? Like meditation is great. It's awesome. We love it all.
And you might guess right occasionally, but we would prefer the method of saying, well, let's test everything, identify what the biggest constraint or what we call performance anchor is. And now I can give you a program that is hyper-specific to that issue. And so in this particular case, I might say, hey, Jen, you know what? Like meditation is great. It's awesome. We love it all.
And so is red light therapy and so is walking in age. All those things are awesome. But you right now specifically need additional B6 and 15 more minutes of cardiovascular exercise a day. Great. Everything else is good too. You can also do that, but you will get the most impact out of, and I just made those examples.
And so is red light therapy and so is walking in age. All those things are awesome. But you right now specifically need additional B6 and 15 more minutes of cardiovascular exercise a day. Great. Everything else is good too. You can also do that, but you will get the most impact out of, and I just made those examples.
And so is red light therapy and so is walking in age. All those things are awesome. But you right now specifically need additional B6 and 15 more minutes of cardiovascular exercise a day. Great. Everything else is good too. You can also do that, but you will get the most impact out of, and I just made those examples.
We don't have a physical facility. It's all remote.
We don't have a physical facility. It's all remote.
We don't have a physical facility. It's all remote.
Sort of, yeah. We actually just send people to you. So we send someone to your house and take care of everything remote. So it doesn't matter where in the country you are. We take care of it.
Sort of, yeah. We actually just send people to you. So we send someone to your house and take care of everything remote. So it doesn't matter where in the country you are. We take care of it.
Sort of, yeah. We actually just send people to you. So we send someone to your house and take care of everything remote. So it doesn't matter where in the country you are. We take care of it.
Right. Okay. So let me clarify what we're saying there. Number one, the amount of markers we take is a little bit dependent upon situations and scenario, right?
Right. Okay. So let me clarify what we're saying there. Number one, the amount of markers we take is a little bit dependent upon situations and scenario, right?
Right. Okay. So let me clarify what we're saying there. Number one, the amount of markers we take is a little bit dependent upon situations and scenario, right?
This is basically exactly what all of our non-athletes say. Exactly. So our athletes will come in and have a very specific thing that they're after for the most part. And then all of our non-athletes are, you know, oftentimes your answer. Our analysis process takes about two months to get through. So we do, I said, an extraordinary amount of testing.
This is basically exactly what all of our non-athletes say. Exactly. So our athletes will come in and have a very specific thing that they're after for the most part. And then all of our non-athletes are, you know, oftentimes your answer. Our analysis process takes about two months to get through. So we do, I said, an extraordinary amount of testing.
This is basically exactly what all of our non-athletes say. Exactly. So our athletes will come in and have a very specific thing that they're after for the most part. And then all of our non-athletes are, you know, oftentimes your answer. Our analysis process takes about two months to get through. So we do, I said, an extraordinary amount of testing.
We come from, and this program was built on situations like the Olympics.
We come from, and this program was built on situations like the Olympics.
We come from, and this program was built on situations like the Olympics.
Professional athletes where you have one shot. I don't have, hey, go try this and come back in eight weeks and let me know how you're feeling.
Professional athletes where you have one shot. I don't have, hey, go try this and come back in eight weeks and let me know how you're feeling.
Professional athletes where you have one shot. I don't have, hey, go try this and come back in eight weeks and let me know how you're feeling.
And then we'll just run this for three or four years and eventually your career's over. Right, right, right. Exactly. Right. In addition to people saying, look, I have more... money than I have time. So I don't want to wait three or four years for these headaches to go away. I can't wait two years for me to stop having diarrhea all the time.
And then we'll just run this for three or four years and eventually your career's over. Right, right, right. Exactly. Right. In addition to people saying, look, I have more... money than I have time. So I don't want to wait three or four years for these headaches to go away. I can't wait two years for me to stop having diarrhea all the time.
And then we'll just run this for three or four years and eventually your career's over. Right, right, right. Exactly. Right. In addition to people saying, look, I have more... money than I have time. So I don't want to wait three or four years for these headaches to go away. I can't wait two years for me to stop having diarrhea all the time.
Like I'd rather spend an extra a hundred dollars to do more testing that maybe we didn't need then wait six months and then come back and say, okay, now let's try this additional. Right. Like this trial and error thing. Totally. Right. We just said, what if we can go past all that and just get as much stuff as we can possibly get done initially. So it takes a couple of months.
Like I'd rather spend an extra a hundred dollars to do more testing that maybe we didn't need then wait six months and then come back and say, okay, now let's try this additional. Right. Like this trial and error thing. Totally. Right. We just said, what if we can go past all that and just get as much stuff as we can possibly get done initially. So it takes a couple of months.
Like I'd rather spend an extra a hundred dollars to do more testing that maybe we didn't need then wait six months and then come back and say, okay, now let's try this additional. Right. Like this trial and error thing. Totally. Right. We just said, what if we can go past all that and just get as much stuff as we can possibly get done initially. So it takes a couple of months.
Some people get done in two weeks, but on average it takes a couple of months. Now, what does that involve? It's a little bit different, but just making up as a direct example. It's everything from a ton of blood work, urine. How much blood work? Like how many markers are you checking? Directly, we're probably going to test 115.
Some people get done in two weeks, but on average it takes a couple of months. Now, what does that involve? It's a little bit different, but just making up as a direct example. It's everything from a ton of blood work, urine. How much blood work? Like how many markers are you checking? Directly, we're probably going to test 115.
Some people get done in two weeks, but on average it takes a couple of months. Now, what does that involve? It's a little bit different, but just making up as a direct example. It's everything from a ton of blood work, urine. How much blood work? Like how many markers are you checking? Directly, we're probably going to test 115.
But off of that, we're going to run over 20,000 calculations on those. And why I'm saying that is it's not the marker. It's not, where's your free testosterone? Where's your cortisol? Where's your sodium? Blah, blah, blah. In addition to that, you have a whole bunch of calculations. You have relationships. You have patterns that you can recognize within that.
But off of that, we're going to run over 20,000 calculations on those. And why I'm saying that is it's not the marker. It's not, where's your free testosterone? Where's your cortisol? Where's your sodium? Blah, blah, blah. In addition to that, you have a whole bunch of calculations. You have relationships. You have patterns that you can recognize within that.
But off of that, we're going to run over 20,000 calculations on those. And why I'm saying that is it's not the marker. It's not, where's your free testosterone? Where's your cortisol? Where's your sodium? Blah, blah, blah. In addition to that, you have a whole bunch of calculations. You have relationships. You have patterns that you can recognize within that.
And so this is when people have traditionally gotten blood work done, they'll look at a single marker and say that marker is high or that marker is low. Now they're saying that's high or low based on a number of problems. In other words, they look at the sheet and the sheet says that number is green, then I must be good.
And so this is when people have traditionally gotten blood work done, they'll look at a single marker and say that marker is high or that marker is low. Now they're saying that's high or low based on a number of problems. In other words, they look at the sheet and the sheet says that number is green, then I must be good.
And so this is when people have traditionally gotten blood work done, they'll look at a single marker and say that marker is high or that marker is low. Now they're saying that's high or low based on a number of problems. In other words, they look at the sheet and the sheet says that number is green, then I must be good.
Or that number says I'm red, like I must be bad. Well, there's a whole host of issues with this approach. First and foremost is the fact that what you're being compared against is called a reference range. So if you look at your albumin or your sodium, pick your favorite marker here. And it says, oh, your albumin is 7.0.
Or that number says I'm red, like I must be bad. Well, there's a whole host of issues with this approach. First and foremost is the fact that what you're being compared against is called a reference range. So if you look at your albumin or your sodium, pick your favorite marker here. And it says, oh, your albumin is 7.0.
Or that number says I'm red, like I must be bad. Well, there's a whole host of issues with this approach. First and foremost is the fact that what you're being compared against is called a reference range. So if you look at your albumin or your sodium, pick your favorite marker here. And it says, oh, your albumin is 7.0.
They're going to be like, wow, you're really, really high because the average person, 95% of people will be within four to five. What's albumin? What is that? It's a protein. It is one example, but it's a protein that carries around carbon dioxide through your body. Cortisol has a whole bunch of transportation. It to me is reason I bring it up is it's my favorite marker of all things in the world.
They're going to be like, wow, you're really, really high because the average person, 95% of people will be within four to five. What's albumin? What is that? It's a protein. It is one example, but it's a protein that carries around carbon dioxide through your body. Cortisol has a whole bunch of transportation. It to me is reason I bring it up is it's my favorite marker of all things in the world.
They're going to be like, wow, you're really, really high because the average person, 95% of people will be within four to five. What's albumin? What is that? It's a protein. It is one example, but it's a protein that carries around carbon dioxide through your body. Cortisol has a whole bunch of transportation. It to me is reason I bring it up is it's my favorite marker of all things in the world.
It's on every blood test you've ever gotten done. Almost nobody has ever seen their albumin out of normal, but it will still tell you everything that's going on in your body. So it's the one I pick because people go, oh, look, my albumin is normal. And I'll be able to tell them actually it's not. Like really consistently.
It's on every blood test you've ever gotten done. Almost nobody has ever seen their albumin out of normal, but it will still tell you everything that's going on in your body. So it's the one I pick because people go, oh, look, my albumin is normal. And I'll be able to tell them actually it's not. Like really consistently.
It's on every blood test you've ever gotten done. Almost nobody has ever seen their albumin out of normal, but it will still tell you everything that's going on in your body. So it's the one I pick because people go, oh, look, my albumin is normal. And I'll be able to tell them actually it's not. Like really consistently.
Because albumin is what's called an acute phase reactant, which means it's going to change in response to dehydration and inflammation. But it does it the opposite. So if you are dehydrated, albumin is going to go down. But if you're inflamed, it goes up. So guess what?
Because albumin is what's called an acute phase reactant, which means it's going to change in response to dehydration and inflammation. But it does it the opposite. So if you are dehydrated, albumin is going to go down. But if you're inflamed, it goes up. So guess what?
Because albumin is what's called an acute phase reactant, which means it's going to change in response to dehydration and inflammation. But it does it the opposite. So if you are dehydrated, albumin is going to go down. But if you're inflamed, it goes up. So guess what?
If you're slightly dehydrated and slightly inflamed, albumin will be smack in the middle.
If you're slightly dehydrated and slightly inflamed, albumin will be smack in the middle.
If you're slightly dehydrated and slightly inflamed, albumin will be smack in the middle.
This is what I'm saying. You can't just look at the numbers and go, oh, everything's fine. Because it's not. I can look directly at your albumin. It can be perfectly right within that reference range. That's not a normal population group, by the way. It's not a healthy group of people. You're not in the population database that we create reference ranges from, right? You're way above it.
This is what I'm saying. You can't just look at the numbers and go, oh, everything's fine. Because it's not. I can look directly at your albumin. It can be perfectly right within that reference range. That's not a normal population group, by the way. It's not a healthy group of people. You're not in the population database that we create reference ranges from, right? You're way above it.
This is what I'm saying. You can't just look at the numbers and go, oh, everything's fine. Because it's not. I can look directly at your albumin. It can be perfectly right within that reference range. That's not a normal population group, by the way. It's not a healthy group of people. You're not in the population database that we create reference ranges from, right? You're way above it.
But nonetheless, you'll still be right in the middle. And then this is exactly what happens when people go, oh, I got my labs done and I looked pretty good.
But nonetheless, you'll still be right in the middle. And then this is exactly what happens when people go, oh, I got my labs done and I looked pretty good.
But nonetheless, you'll still be right in the middle. And then this is exactly what happens when people go, oh, I got my labs done and I looked pretty good.
You have to then, in this particular case, look at things like sodium, potassium, carbon dioxide, a ton of other things that are all still going to be the way, by the way, within the reference range. But if sodium is trending a little bit low, still within the green, potassium is a little bit high, carbon dioxide is a little below, you can start to see these patterns are going
You have to then, in this particular case, look at things like sodium, potassium, carbon dioxide, a ton of other things that are all still going to be the way, by the way, within the reference range. But if sodium is trending a little bit low, still within the green, potassium is a little bit high, carbon dioxide is a little below, you can start to see these patterns are going
You have to then, in this particular case, look at things like sodium, potassium, carbon dioxide, a ton of other things that are all still going to be the way, by the way, within the reference range. But if sodium is trending a little bit low, still within the green, potassium is a little bit high, carbon dioxide is a little below, you can start to see these patterns are going
You're actually A, B, C, D, E, and F. Plus we ask you some questions and you're talking about how sometimes you get a little bit constipated. Oh, and then on the afternoons, you feel like you're getting a little additional brain fog. We tracked your hydration markers and you're slightly dehydrated.
You're actually A, B, C, D, E, and F. Plus we ask you some questions and you're talking about how sometimes you get a little bit constipated. Oh, and then on the afternoons, you feel like you're getting a little additional brain fog. We tracked your hydration markers and you're slightly dehydrated.
You're actually A, B, C, D, E, and F. Plus we ask you some questions and you're talking about how sometimes you get a little bit constipated. Oh, and then on the afternoons, you feel like you're getting a little additional brain fog. We tracked your hydration markers and you're slightly dehydrated.
Now we know that being dehydrated by as little as 1% can have significant, both clinical and statistically significant reductions in physical performance and cognitive capacity, mood, arithmetic, retention, sleep, all things like that. So I can look within the labs and go every single thing on your labs is within the reference range. You don't have a clinical disease, Jen.
Now we know that being dehydrated by as little as 1% can have significant, both clinical and statistically significant reductions in physical performance and cognitive capacity, mood, arithmetic, retention, sleep, all things like that. So I can look within the labs and go every single thing on your labs is within the reference range. You don't have a clinical disease, Jen.
Now we know that being dehydrated by as little as 1% can have significant, both clinical and statistically significant reductions in physical performance and cognitive capacity, mood, arithmetic, retention, sleep, all things like that. So I can look within the labs and go every single thing on your labs is within the reference range. You don't have a clinical disease, Jen.
You don't have a disease. But this is why you're performing slightly suboptimally.
You don't have a disease. But this is why you're performing slightly suboptimally.
You don't have a disease. But this is why you're performing slightly suboptimally.
In that particular case, it might be you're just slightly dehydrated. But not that day. Because we'll see that, right? It's not like, oh, you didn't drink enough water.
In that particular case, it might be you're just slightly dehydrated. But not that day. Because we'll see that, right? It's not like, oh, you didn't drink enough water.
In that particular case, it might be you're just slightly dehydrated. But not that day. Because we'll see that, right? It's not like, oh, you didn't drink enough water.
No, no. So we'll see that in your blood as well. We have a number of short term, medium and long term markers to let us cross reference and go, oh, you know what? Actually, we're seeing dehydration for her, but her medium and long term markers are fine. So she just didn't drink enough water that day. False finding. Don't worry about it.
No, no. So we'll see that in your blood as well. We have a number of short term, medium and long term markers to let us cross reference and go, oh, you know what? Actually, we're seeing dehydration for her, but her medium and long term markers are fine. So she just didn't drink enough water that day. False finding. Don't worry about it.
No, no. So we'll see that in your blood as well. We have a number of short term, medium and long term markers to let us cross reference and go, oh, you know what? Actually, we're seeing dehydration for her, but her medium and long term markers are fine. So she just didn't drink enough water that day. False finding. Don't worry about it.
Some of them. Some of them change very acutely. Okay. Some of them are very chronic. And that's why you need to have a combination of both and be able to look at that independently and say, yeah, yeah, again, she's a little bit active. It could be sick. It could be trained or worked out really hard. Could be the food you had the night before.
Some of them. Some of them change very acutely. Okay. Some of them are very chronic. And that's why you need to have a combination of both and be able to look at that independently and say, yeah, yeah, again, she's a little bit active. It could be sick. It could be trained or worked out really hard. Could be the food you had the night before.
Some of them. Some of them change very acutely. Okay. Some of them are very chronic. And that's why you need to have a combination of both and be able to look at that independently and say, yeah, yeah, again, she's a little bit active. It could be sick. It could be trained or worked out really hard. Could be the food you had the night before.
Depending on what you're looking at in any host of functional areas. Right. Then you have to be able to cross-reference, again, short-term and long-term as well as symptomology. So how are you feeling? We're seeing some signs here of poor sleep. Oh, my sleep's tremendous. Oh, okay. Then maybe it's normal for your physiology.
Depending on what you're looking at in any host of functional areas. Right. Then you have to be able to cross-reference, again, short-term and long-term as well as symptomology. So how are you feeling? We're seeing some signs here of poor sleep. Oh, my sleep's tremendous. Oh, okay. Then maybe it's normal for your physiology.
Depending on what you're looking at in any host of functional areas. Right. Then you have to be able to cross-reference, again, short-term and long-term as well as symptomology. So how are you feeling? We're seeing some signs here of poor sleep. Oh, my sleep's tremendous. Oh, okay. Then maybe it's normal for your physiology.
So you have to be able to match this entire thing, which honestly kind of goes back and answers your original question. When you say you don't treat the individual markers, this is exactly what I'm referring to. So we will almost always look at somebody's blood And we'll hear this all the time. Again, I've had a bunch of blood work done. Nothing's ever showed up really great.
So you have to be able to match this entire thing, which honestly kind of goes back and answers your original question. When you say you don't treat the individual markers, this is exactly what I'm referring to. So we will almost always look at somebody's blood And we'll hear this all the time. Again, I've had a bunch of blood work done. Nothing's ever showed up really great.
So you have to be able to match this entire thing, which honestly kind of goes back and answers your original question. When you say you don't treat the individual markers, this is exactly what I'm referring to. So we will almost always look at somebody's blood And we'll hear this all the time. Again, I've had a bunch of blood work done. Nothing's ever showed up really great.
And we can look at it and go, boom, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And we actually do this as like, I do it all the time in like live seminars. We'll just like pull somebody's blood randomly. I don't know, you pull it up or whatever. And like, just watch us start telling you about your life. And they're like, what the? Are you serious? It's right there in your blood. Like no one's ever told me that.
And we can look at it and go, boom, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And we actually do this as like, I do it all the time in like live seminars. We'll just like pull somebody's blood randomly. I don't know, you pull it up or whatever. And like, just watch us start telling you about your life. And they're like, what the? Are you serious? It's right there in your blood. Like no one's ever told me that.
And we can look at it and go, boom, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And we actually do this as like, I do it all the time in like live seminars. We'll just like pull somebody's blood randomly. I don't know, you pull it up or whatever. And like, just watch us start telling you about your life. And they're like, what the? Are you serious? It's right there in your blood. Like no one's ever told me that.
I'm like, yeah, because there's a different level of interpretation. from what we call high performance perspective. And so again, these are things that if you have a disease, I'm not gonna touch it. I'm not a medical doctor. I'm gonna say, you need to go talk to a doctor. Like you might have a disease. But this is high performance.
I'm like, yeah, because there's a different level of interpretation. from what we call high performance perspective. And so again, these are things that if you have a disease, I'm not gonna touch it. I'm not a medical doctor. I'm gonna say, you need to go talk to a doctor. Like you might have a disease. But this is high performance.
I'm like, yeah, because there's a different level of interpretation. from what we call high performance perspective. And so again, these are things that if you have a disease, I'm not gonna touch it. I'm not a medical doctor. I'm gonna say, you need to go talk to a doctor. Like you might have a disease. But this is high performance.
This is stuff that is still usually within the reference range or pretty close or subclinical, but it doesn't mean it's not affecting how you're living and feeling and performing. And that's what we do.
This is stuff that is still usually within the reference range or pretty close or subclinical, but it doesn't mean it's not affecting how you're living and feeling and performing. And that's what we do.
This is stuff that is still usually within the reference range or pretty close or subclinical, but it doesn't mean it's not affecting how you're living and feeling and performing. And that's what we do.
Yeah, I have many things to say about the topic. First and foremost, again, I'm not a medical doctor. Yes, but you just play one on TV.
Yeah, I have many things to say about the topic. First and foremost, again, I'm not a medical doctor. Yes, but you just play one on TV.
Yeah, I have many things to say about the topic. First and foremost, again, I'm not a medical doctor. Yes, but you just play one on TV.
No, I think it's just fairness. People listening might have been like, oh, he's a doctor, and assume I'm a medical doctor.
No, I think it's just fairness. People listening might have been like, oh, he's a doctor, and assume I'm a medical doctor.
No, I think it's just fairness. People listening might have been like, oh, he's a doctor, and assume I'm a medical doctor.
Yeah, we do, but... I'm not a medical.
Yeah, we do, but... I'm not a medical.
Yeah, we do, but... I'm not a medical.
That said, I'm very supportive of hormone therapy, particularly for women, especially post-menopause. There's even for men, lots of reasons why hormone therapy is great. That said, I will say in my personal experience, we have had many people come into our coaching programs post-TRT, many men, because they were given it flippantly or haphazardly.
That said, I'm very supportive of hormone therapy, particularly for women, especially post-menopause. There's even for men, lots of reasons why hormone therapy is great. That said, I will say in my personal experience, we have had many people come into our coaching programs post-TRT, many men, because they were given it flippantly or haphazardly.
That said, I'm very supportive of hormone therapy, particularly for women, especially post-menopause. There's even for men, lots of reasons why hormone therapy is great. That said, I will say in my personal experience, we have had many people come into our coaching programs post-TRT, many men, because they were given it flippantly or haphazardly.
And that is a real significant problem because you will feel pretty good for six weeks, for six months. And then things get really bad and generally are going to stay bad for a long time unless you do something about it. So there are real concerns about giving people exogenous hormones in a very poor, underdeveloped, unmanaged way.
And that is a real significant problem because you will feel pretty good for six weeks, for six months. And then things get really bad and generally are going to stay bad for a long time unless you do something about it. So there are real concerns about giving people exogenous hormones in a very poor, underdeveloped, unmanaged way.
And that is a real significant problem because you will feel pretty good for six weeks, for six months. And then things get really bad and generally are going to stay bad for a long time unless you do something about it. So there are real concerns about giving people exogenous hormones in a very poor, underdeveloped, unmanaged way.
If someone's really paying attention, taking you through it, it can be safe and highly effective. There are problems with it because of the way that you got into it. Again, did you have a 15 minute teledoc and you said, I'm tired and I'm sleepy and they just gave you testosterone. To me, that's a really poor decision.
If someone's really paying attention, taking you through it, it can be safe and highly effective. There are problems with it because of the way that you got into it. Again, did you have a 15 minute teledoc and you said, I'm tired and I'm sleepy and they just gave you testosterone. To me, that's a really poor decision.
If someone's really paying attention, taking you through it, it can be safe and highly effective. There are problems with it because of the way that you got into it. Again, did you have a 15 minute teledoc and you said, I'm tired and I'm sleepy and they just gave you testosterone. To me, that's a really poor decision.
We can use these easy examples because we actually just got our, pretty recently just got all of our mid-season blood work back from our NFL players. On average, we're seeing about 150 to 200 increase in testosterone mid-season in the NFL. We can't use exogenous hormones there.
We can use these easy examples because we actually just got our, pretty recently just got all of our mid-season blood work back from our NFL players. On average, we're seeing about 150 to 200 increase in testosterone mid-season in the NFL. We can't use exogenous hormones there.
We can use these easy examples because we actually just got our, pretty recently just got all of our mid-season blood work back from our NFL players. On average, we're seeing about 150 to 200 increase in testosterone mid-season in the NFL. We can't use exogenous hormones there.
So we're seeing now most Vanderbilt players are sitting like 700 plus testosterone, usually in the mid 500s at the beginning of the year. See the same thing with our baseball players and everybody else. So we are really consistently able to elevate people's testosterone without touching any hormones, any peptides, anything that's even close to this stuff.
So we're seeing now most Vanderbilt players are sitting like 700 plus testosterone, usually in the mid 500s at the beginning of the year. See the same thing with our baseball players and everybody else. So we are really consistently able to elevate people's testosterone without touching any hormones, any peptides, anything that's even close to this stuff.
So we're seeing now most Vanderbilt players are sitting like 700 plus testosterone, usually in the mid 500s at the beginning of the year. See the same thing with our baseball players and everybody else. So we are really consistently able to elevate people's testosterone without touching any hormones, any peptides, anything that's even close to this stuff.
All we actually ever have to do is remove any major constraints from their physiology. What are the constraints? It could be suboptimal sleep, right? They could have a clinical sleep disorder, not realize it. You just get a small improvement in sleep and you will see 20% increases in testosterone really routinely. It might be something to do with their physiology. Good examples.
All we actually ever have to do is remove any major constraints from their physiology. What are the constraints? It could be suboptimal sleep, right? They could have a clinical sleep disorder, not realize it. You just get a small improvement in sleep and you will see 20% increases in testosterone really routinely. It might be something to do with their physiology. Good examples.
All we actually ever have to do is remove any major constraints from their physiology. What are the constraints? It could be suboptimal sleep, right? They could have a clinical sleep disorder, not realize it. You just get a small improvement in sleep and you will see 20% increases in testosterone really routinely. It might be something to do with their physiology. Good examples.
You look at somebody's testosterone on a blood test. Let's just say it's a male and we're talking total testosterone.
You look at somebody's testosterone on a blood test. Let's just say it's a male and we're talking total testosterone.
You look at somebody's testosterone on a blood test. Let's just say it's a male and we're talking total testosterone.
And that number is low. Great. First stop is, is that normal for that person? Second stop is, do they have any symptoms? Again, are they fatigued, libido, recovery, like anything there? Awesome. If you haven't even gone to those two steps, we probably shouldn't be jumping to therapies and things. But past that.
And that number is low. Great. First stop is, is that normal for that person? Second stop is, do they have any symptoms? Again, are they fatigued, libido, recovery, like anything there? Awesome. If you haven't even gone to those two steps, we probably shouldn't be jumping to therapies and things. But past that.
And that number is low. Great. First stop is, is that normal for that person? Second stop is, do they have any symptoms? Again, are they fatigued, libido, recovery, like anything there? Awesome. If you haven't even gone to those two steps, we probably shouldn't be jumping to therapies and things. But past that.
Before I'm even worrying about any of those things, I'm gonna look at this and go, okay, why is testosterone low? And then I'm gonna look at things, the easy one that's gonna come to people's mind is things like cortisol. There's an antagonist relationship between cortisol and testosterone.
Before I'm even worrying about any of those things, I'm gonna look at this and go, okay, why is testosterone low? And then I'm gonna look at things, the easy one that's gonna come to people's mind is things like cortisol. There's an antagonist relationship between cortisol and testosterone.
Before I'm even worrying about any of those things, I'm gonna look at this and go, okay, why is testosterone low? And then I'm gonna look at things, the easy one that's gonna come to people's mind is things like cortisol. There's an antagonist relationship between cortisol and testosterone.
If your blood draw cortisol is super high, there's lots of ways to measure cortisol, that's why I specified blood. then before you go anywhere with testosterone, all you have to do is get cortisol back down and your testosterone will go up.
If your blood draw cortisol is super high, there's lots of ways to measure cortisol, that's why I specified blood. then before you go anywhere with testosterone, all you have to do is get cortisol back down and your testosterone will go up.
If your blood draw cortisol is super high, there's lots of ways to measure cortisol, that's why I specified blood. then before you go anywhere with testosterone, all you have to do is get cortisol back down and your testosterone will go up.
If we then start looking at things like sodium to potassium ratios, now again, both those numbers are probably gonna be fine, but that individual ratio itself will tell us a lot about acute versus chronic fatigue. So if I start looking at that and I start seeing, okay, resting cortisol is normal, but sodium potassium ratios are off. We don't have an acute stress issue.
If we then start looking at things like sodium to potassium ratios, now again, both those numbers are probably gonna be fine, but that individual ratio itself will tell us a lot about acute versus chronic fatigue. So if I start looking at that and I start seeing, okay, resting cortisol is normal, but sodium potassium ratios are off. We don't have an acute stress issue.
If we then start looking at things like sodium to potassium ratios, now again, both those numbers are probably gonna be fine, but that individual ratio itself will tell us a lot about acute versus chronic fatigue. So if I start looking at that and I start seeing, okay, resting cortisol is normal, but sodium potassium ratios are off. We don't have an acute stress issue.
You have a long-term stress management issue. Then I start poking around and we start looking at things like HRV, your respiratory rate, how often you're breathing, your CO2 tolerance, and some other functional categories there. Maybe we're looking at basic pH and we start seeing three or four or five signs of chronic stress. And what's key about this is that may or may not
You have a long-term stress management issue. Then I start poking around and we start looking at things like HRV, your respiratory rate, how often you're breathing, your CO2 tolerance, and some other functional categories there. Maybe we're looking at basic pH and we start seeing three or four or five signs of chronic stress. And what's key about this is that may or may not
You have a long-term stress management issue. Then I start poking around and we start looking at things like HRV, your respiratory rate, how often you're breathing, your CO2 tolerance, and some other functional categories there. Maybe we're looking at basic pH and we start seeing three or four or five signs of chronic stress. And what's key about this is that may or may not
manifests itself in psychological stress. So the person may not be like, no, I'm not stressed. Depression, no, I'm fine. Anxiety, no, I'm good. Like, no, they may or may not have the symptoms, but we can look at it and see they are physiologically very stressed. So now all we do is resolve some or most of that physiological stress, and guess what happens to testosterone? It shoots right back up.
manifests itself in psychological stress. So the person may not be like, no, I'm not stressed. Depression, no, I'm fine. Anxiety, no, I'm good. Like, no, they may or may not have the symptoms, but we can look at it and see they are physiologically very stressed. So now all we do is resolve some or most of that physiological stress, and guess what happens to testosterone? It shoots right back up.
manifests itself in psychological stress. So the person may not be like, no, I'm not stressed. Depression, no, I'm fine. Anxiety, no, I'm good. Like, no, they may or may not have the symptoms, but we can look at it and see they are physiologically very stressed. So now all we do is resolve some or most of that physiological stress, and guess what happens to testosterone? It shoots right back up.
It depends on what the cause is.
It depends on what the cause is.
It depends on what the cause is.
Not really. Really? So what you're, what you're conflating, and I see the confusion, this is actually a really good question. You have to disentangle short acute with long chronic. So if you and I were to leave right now, go hit your gym right across the hall here, and we trained like crazy, did legs, did whatever, right? We would see a huge rise in cortisol right now.
Not really. Really? So what you're, what you're conflating, and I see the confusion, this is actually a really good question. You have to disentangle short acute with long chronic. So if you and I were to leave right now, go hit your gym right across the hall here, and we trained like crazy, did legs, did whatever, right? We would see a huge rise in cortisol right now.
Not really. Really? So what you're, what you're conflating, and I see the confusion, this is actually a really good question. You have to disentangle short acute with long chronic. So if you and I were to leave right now, go hit your gym right across the hall here, and we trained like crazy, did legs, did whatever, right? We would see a huge rise in cortisol right now.
But by the time we got home tonight or tomorrow morning, it would actually be lower than where we are right now. So it's a short, really aggressive spike that comes back down to baseline and then typically goes lower than normal baseline. This is why chronic exercise is a stress reducer, but acute exercise is a massive short-term stressor, right?
But by the time we got home tonight or tomorrow morning, it would actually be lower than where we are right now. So it's a short, really aggressive spike that comes back down to baseline and then typically goes lower than normal baseline. This is why chronic exercise is a stress reducer, but acute exercise is a massive short-term stressor, right?
But by the time we got home tonight or tomorrow morning, it would actually be lower than where we are right now. So it's a short, really aggressive spike that comes back down to baseline and then typically goes lower than normal baseline. This is why chronic exercise is a stress reducer, but acute exercise is a massive short-term stressor, right?
So it's that small, it's called a hormetic stress, right? So it's a little bit of poison, makes you actually better.
So it's that small, it's called a hormetic stress, right? So it's a little bit of poison, makes you actually better.
So it's that small, it's called a hormetic stress, right? So it's a little bit of poison, makes you actually better.
It's not a myth. It depends on what you mean when you say increase. If you say increase in terms of if we were to go train right now and we took your blood before the workout and after the workout, yes, it would go up. But the question is— Not long-term. exercise generally does increase testosterone long-term if it is suppressed. If it's normal, then it won't.
It's not a myth. It depends on what you mean when you say increase. If you say increase in terms of if we were to go train right now and we took your blood before the workout and after the workout, yes, it would go up. But the question is— Not long-term. exercise generally does increase testosterone long-term if it is suppressed. If it's normal, then it won't.
It's not a myth. It depends on what you mean when you say increase. If you say increase in terms of if we were to go train right now and we took your blood before the workout and after the workout, yes, it would go up. But the question is— Not long-term. exercise generally does increase testosterone long-term if it is suppressed. If it's normal, then it won't.
And so there's always a difference in physiology for the most part going from suboptimal to normal, going from normal to super optimal. That's a different thing that gets you from normal to high. So if you were walking around and you were suppressed, then exercise would elevate it.
And so there's always a difference in physiology for the most part going from suboptimal to normal, going from normal to super optimal. That's a different thing that gets you from normal to high. So if you were walking around and you were suppressed, then exercise would elevate it.
And so there's always a difference in physiology for the most part going from suboptimal to normal, going from normal to super optimal. That's a different thing that gets you from normal to high. So if you were walking around and you were suppressed, then exercise would elevate it.
But if you're already super fit, your stress is managed, you sleep really well, blah, blah, blah, then working out is not going to make your testosterone keep going higher.
But if you're already super fit, your stress is managed, you sleep really well, blah, blah, blah, then working out is not going to make your testosterone keep going higher.
But if you're already super fit, your stress is managed, you sleep really well, blah, blah, blah, then working out is not going to make your testosterone keep going higher.
That absolutely happens. We see that very routinely. It's not the norm, but we see that really commonly. Too much high intensity can absolutely lead to, it's not going to lead to adrenal fatigue. It can certainly lead to cortisol dysfunction though.
That absolutely happens. We see that very routinely. It's not the norm, but we see that really commonly. Too much high intensity can absolutely lead to, it's not going to lead to adrenal fatigue. It can certainly lead to cortisol dysfunction though.
That absolutely happens. We see that very routinely. It's not the norm, but we see that really commonly. Too much high intensity can absolutely lead to, it's not going to lead to adrenal fatigue. It can certainly lead to cortisol dysfunction though.
And we see this typically when things like really high intensity exercise are dosed too often in combination with really high stress lifestyles.
And we see this typically when things like really high intensity exercise are dosed too often in combination with really high stress lifestyles.
And we see this typically when things like really high intensity exercise are dosed too often in combination with really high stress lifestyles.
That's it. So if you are like, oh, I train super hard and then I have this other down regulation practice I do. I have this other, my lifestyle is great. I'm not living in these high stress areas like geographically and so on and so forth. then it doesn't seem to be as much of a problem. It's also very person dependent.
That's it. So if you are like, oh, I train super hard and then I have this other down regulation practice I do. I have this other, my lifestyle is great. I'm not living in these high stress areas like geographically and so on and so forth. then it doesn't seem to be as much of a problem. It's also very person dependent.
That's it. So if you are like, oh, I train super hard and then I have this other down regulation practice I do. I have this other, my lifestyle is great. I'm not living in these high stress areas like geographically and so on and so forth. then it doesn't seem to be as much of a problem. It's also very person dependent.
We work with a number of like legitimately fortune 10 executives and they are doing billions of dollars a year and every decision they make is worth hundreds of millions and they train like crazy. They're on just loads of stimulants and they're actually like very fine. We don't see these issues like they're okay.
We work with a number of like legitimately fortune 10 executives and they are doing billions of dollars a year and every decision they make is worth hundreds of millions and they train like crazy. They're on just loads of stimulants and they're actually like very fine. We don't see these issues like they're okay.
We work with a number of like legitimately fortune 10 executives and they are doing billions of dollars a year and every decision they make is worth hundreds of millions and they train like crazy. They're on just loads of stimulants and they're actually like very fine. We don't see these issues like they're okay.
Other folks, the opposite, where they have like a middle to lower stress lifestyle, they train kind of hard, but it is too much for them. And so I don't want people to just think that like all of a sudden you have to do these things or you can't train high intensity. What I want, the message I would like to get across is just make sure it's working for you because sometimes it's not.
Other folks, the opposite, where they have like a middle to lower stress lifestyle, they train kind of hard, but it is too much for them. And so I don't want people to just think that like all of a sudden you have to do these things or you can't train high intensity. What I want, the message I would like to get across is just make sure it's working for you because sometimes it's not.
Other folks, the opposite, where they have like a middle to lower stress lifestyle, they train kind of hard, but it is too much for them. And so I don't want people to just think that like all of a sudden you have to do these things or you can't train high intensity. What I want, the message I would like to get across is just make sure it's working for you because sometimes it's not.
In the same token, we've had plenty of of executives and high performers where the exercise is not servicing them. It's actually making their life way worse because it's doing things like this. And when we pull them off of that high intensity training, everything in their life gets better.
In the same token, we've had plenty of of executives and high performers where the exercise is not servicing them. It's actually making their life way worse because it's doing things like this. And when we pull them off of that high intensity training, everything in their life gets better.
In the same token, we've had plenty of of executives and high performers where the exercise is not servicing them. It's actually making their life way worse because it's doing things like this. And when we pull them off of that high intensity training, everything in their life gets better.
And so it's always not necessarily just about the person or the category of person, male versus female or middle-aged or executive. It's always about the individual physiology and their unique environment. So
And so it's always not necessarily just about the person or the category of person, male versus female or middle-aged or executive. It's always about the individual physiology and their unique environment. So
And so it's always not necessarily just about the person or the category of person, male versus female or middle-aged or executive. It's always about the individual physiology and their unique environment. So
Yep. Okay, great. Number one, I'm okay calling it cortisol dysfunction for the sake of kind of like learning, but it's not just that because your cortisol can be fine. And this is one thing to pay attention to is if you're like, well, I got my blood drawn or I did this cortisol test and it was fine. Great. There's many other physiological mechanisms that go into stress management.
Yep. Okay, great. Number one, I'm okay calling it cortisol dysfunction for the sake of kind of like learning, but it's not just that because your cortisol can be fine. And this is one thing to pay attention to is if you're like, well, I got my blood drawn or I did this cortisol test and it was fine. Great. There's many other physiological mechanisms that go into stress management.
Yep. Okay, great. Number one, I'm okay calling it cortisol dysfunction for the sake of kind of like learning, but it's not just that because your cortisol can be fine. And this is one thing to pay attention to is if you're like, well, I got my blood drawn or I did this cortisol test and it was fine. Great. There's many other physiological mechanisms that go into stress management.
Cortisol is just one of them. So just because your cortisol is bad, that doesn't mean this is you. And just because your cortisol is good, that doesn't mean you're free from this. either. So what are the symptoms? Things like reduced motivation to train, no more progress. You're not making any more progress in the gym. Another way that we will classically see this is delayed onset to sleep.
Cortisol is just one of them. So just because your cortisol is bad, that doesn't mean this is you. And just because your cortisol is good, that doesn't mean you're free from this. either. So what are the symptoms? Things like reduced motivation to train, no more progress. You're not making any more progress in the gym. Another way that we will classically see this is delayed onset to sleep.
Cortisol is just one of them. So just because your cortisol is bad, that doesn't mean this is you. And just because your cortisol is good, that doesn't mean you're free from this. either. So what are the symptoms? Things like reduced motivation to train, no more progress. You're not making any more progress in the gym. Another way that we will classically see this is delayed onset to sleep.
It takes me a long time to fall asleep at night. And when I fall asleep, I'm great or I'm okay, or I'm terrible. It doesn't matter, but it takes me a while to fall asleep. Awesome. What about in the wake of the middle of the night? If you get woken up in the night, do you have a really hard time falling back to sleep? Oh yeah. Never going to happen.
It takes me a long time to fall asleep at night. And when I fall asleep, I'm great or I'm okay, or I'm terrible. It doesn't matter, but it takes me a while to fall asleep. Awesome. What about in the wake of the middle of the night? If you get woken up in the night, do you have a really hard time falling back to sleep? Oh yeah. Never going to happen.
It takes me a long time to fall asleep at night. And when I fall asleep, I'm great or I'm okay, or I'm terrible. It doesn't matter, but it takes me a while to fall asleep. Awesome. What about in the wake of the middle of the night? If you get woken up in the night, do you have a really hard time falling back to sleep? Oh yeah. Never going to happen.
Hmm, great, another common thing we see pop up in people. Maybe they fall asleep really fast because they're exhausted, because they've been running on level nine all day, but if they wake up at all in the middle of the night, they'll never go back to sleep. If you look at their heart rate at night, if you look at some down regulation, we have a thing that we use in my sleep company,
Hmm, great, another common thing we see pop up in people. Maybe they fall asleep really fast because they're exhausted, because they've been running on level nine all day, but if they wake up at all in the middle of the night, they'll never go back to sleep. If you look at their heart rate at night, if you look at some down regulation, we have a thing that we use in my sleep company,
Hmm, great, another common thing we see pop up in people. Maybe they fall asleep really fast because they're exhausted, because they've been running on level nine all day, but if they wake up at all in the middle of the night, they'll never go back to sleep. If you look at their heart rate at night, if you look at some down regulation, we have a thing that we use in my sleep company,
called a wind down index. And you'll see that number is just awful with these people, right? So you'll start to see some signs and symptoms like that. So sleep is a great way to go about it. Another one is, again, the big lack of progress. Like I'm training super hard.
called a wind down index. And you'll see that number is just awful with these people, right? So you'll start to see some signs and symptoms like that. So sleep is a great way to go about it. Another one is, again, the big lack of progress. Like I'm training super hard.
called a wind down index. And you'll see that number is just awful with these people, right? So you'll start to see some signs and symptoms like that. So sleep is a great way to go about it. Another one is, again, the big lack of progress. Like I'm training super hard.
I'm not making progress. Okay, great. And then the other more classic ones like libido, like follow through, like I'm just like not getting stuff done that I used to like, I feel like I'm delaying and procrastinating projects. I never used to do that before. I'd say those are generally like the four or five things that are probably most likely to tip with people.
I'm not making progress. Okay, great. And then the other more classic ones like libido, like follow through, like I'm just like not getting stuff done that I used to like, I feel like I'm delaying and procrastinating projects. I never used to do that before. I'd say those are generally like the four or five things that are probably most likely to tip with people.
I'm not making progress. Okay, great. And then the other more classic ones like libido, like follow through, like I'm just like not getting stuff done that I used to like, I feel like I'm delaying and procrastinating projects. I never used to do that before. I'd say those are generally like the four or five things that are probably most likely to tip with people.
Or the last one that is less common will happen is just kind of like the feeling of like, I always feel anxious. Like I feel like my heart's like going, I don't even know why. I'm like not even stressed at work right now or whatever. But your system is just so waxed all the time. It never calms back down.
Or the last one that is less common will happen is just kind of like the feeling of like, I always feel anxious. Like I feel like my heart's like going, I don't even know why. I'm like not even stressed at work right now or whatever. But your system is just so waxed all the time. It never calms back down.
Or the last one that is less common will happen is just kind of like the feeling of like, I always feel anxious. Like I feel like my heart's like going, I don't even know why. I'm like not even stressed at work right now or whatever. But your system is just so waxed all the time. It never calms back down.
So the solution is, number one, resolve what's causing the problem. If it is truly too much high intensity exercise, take two weeks down. Don't take two weeks off.
So the solution is, number one, resolve what's causing the problem. If it is truly too much high intensity exercise, take two weeks down. Don't take two weeks off.
So the solution is, number one, resolve what's causing the problem. If it is truly too much high intensity exercise, take two weeks down. Don't take two weeks off.
Still train. But just don't go to level 10 every time. Can you give me 7 out of 10 for two weeks?
Still train. But just don't go to level 10 every time. Can you give me 7 out of 10 for two weeks?
Still train. But just don't go to level 10 every time. Can you give me 7 out of 10 for two weeks?
Give me 7 out of 10.
Give me 7 out of 10.
Give me 7 out of 10.
This is one of the classic signs and symptoms of, there's different terminology than overtraining, but for colloquially what you're referring to, yeah, this is, you will see, for example, testosterone. Testosterone will go down with overtraining almost every time. And it's this exact same pathway that you're in. But let's just continue on your example because I've heard this a thousand times.
This is one of the classic signs and symptoms of, there's different terminology than overtraining, but for colloquially what you're referring to, yeah, this is, you will see, for example, testosterone. Testosterone will go down with overtraining almost every time. And it's this exact same pathway that you're in. But let's just continue on your example because I've heard this a thousand times.
This is one of the classic signs and symptoms of, there's different terminology than overtraining, but for colloquially what you're referring to, yeah, this is, you will see, for example, testosterone. Testosterone will go down with overtraining almost every time. And it's this exact same pathway that you're in. But let's just continue on your example because I've heard this a thousand times.
Yeah, sure. Not like, okay, let's just say because mentally you won't allow it. Personality, you won't allow it. And by allow it, I mean backing off from training.
Yeah, sure. Not like, okay, let's just say because mentally you won't allow it. Personality, you won't allow it. And by allow it, I mean backing off from training.
Yeah, sure. Not like, okay, let's just say because mentally you won't allow it. Personality, you won't allow it. And by allow it, I mean backing off from training.
Yeah. So a lot to dive into there. Number one would be fine. Again, I've heard this a bunch. And if, for example, you are an athlete, like our NFL players are in the playoffs right now. There is no, hey, let's tone it down for a couple weeks.
Yeah. So a lot to dive into there. Number one would be fine. Again, I've heard this a bunch. And if, for example, you are an athlete, like our NFL players are in the playoffs right now. There is no, hey, let's tone it down for a couple weeks.
Yeah. So a lot to dive into there. Number one would be fine. Again, I've heard this a bunch. And if, for example, you are an athlete, like our NFL players are in the playoffs right now. There is no, hey, let's tone it down for a couple weeks.
Not an option. So we have dealt with this, whether it's just because you're... You're being ridiculous and you won't back off a little bit. Or we have legitimate, we're two weeks from the Olympics. We're not going to back off. Oh, okay. Got it. Fine. No problem. So let's work backwards. What are you willing to do?
Not an option. So we have dealt with this, whether it's just because you're... You're being ridiculous and you won't back off a little bit. Or we have legitimate, we're two weeks from the Olympics. We're not going to back off. Oh, okay. Got it. Fine. No problem. So let's work backwards. What are you willing to do?
Not an option. So we have dealt with this, whether it's just because you're... You're being ridiculous and you won't back off a little bit. Or we have legitimate, we're two weeks from the Olympics. We're not going to back off. Oh, okay. Got it. Fine. No problem. So let's work backwards. What are you willing to do?
If you're not willing to trade off intensity with your exercise, will you trade off intensity somewhere else?
If you're not willing to trade off intensity with your exercise, will you trade off intensity somewhere else?
If you're not willing to trade off intensity with your exercise, will you trade off intensity somewhere else?
If you block that out, what are my other options? Are you doing something in your personal life that we can take to five out of 10? Are we doing something work-wise that we can take out of five out of 10? I'm not saying forever, again, short periods. Or if you're not willing to back down on stressor intake, you have to ramp up de-stress. Right? So you're not willing to reduce any stress intake.
If you block that out, what are my other options? Are you doing something in your personal life that we can take to five out of 10? Are we doing something work-wise that we can take out of five out of 10? I'm not saying forever, again, short periods. Or if you're not willing to back down on stressor intake, you have to ramp up de-stress. Right? So you're not willing to reduce any stress intake.
If you block that out, what are my other options? Are you doing something in your personal life that we can take to five out of 10? Are we doing something work-wise that we can take out of five out of 10? I'm not saying forever, again, short periods. Or if you're not willing to back down on stressor intake, you have to ramp up de-stress. Right? So you're not willing to reduce any stress intake.
You have to triple down now on down regulation processes. That's the only other side of the coin that we can play with now. Right. So what's that look like? Fine. You won't give up your training. You're not going to stop the work project. You're going to keep fighting with your friend or whatever you're in the middle of, and you just won't let it go for a week. Cool.
You have to triple down now on down regulation processes. That's the only other side of the coin that we can play with now. Right. So what's that look like? Fine. You won't give up your training. You're not going to stop the work project. You're going to keep fighting with your friend or whatever you're in the middle of, and you just won't let it go for a week. Cool.
You have to triple down now on down regulation processes. That's the only other side of the coin that we can play with now. Right. So what's that look like? Fine. You won't give up your training. You're not going to stop the work project. You're going to keep fighting with your friend or whatever you're in the middle of, and you just won't let it go for a week. Cool.
You owe me an hour and a half of focused down regulation every day. hour and a half, no, no, no, stop. Do you want this to get better or not? Like you have to pick something here. An hour and a half is like aggressive, but you get the point here, right? It's not like, okay, I'll do 10 minutes of breath work today. It's not going to be enough.
You owe me an hour and a half of focused down regulation every day. hour and a half, no, no, no, stop. Do you want this to get better or not? Like you have to pick something here. An hour and a half is like aggressive, but you get the point here, right? It's not like, okay, I'll do 10 minutes of breath work today. It's not going to be enough.
You owe me an hour and a half of focused down regulation every day. hour and a half, no, no, no, stop. Do you want this to get better or not? Like you have to pick something here. An hour and a half is like aggressive, but you get the point here, right? It's not like, okay, I'll do 10 minutes of breath work today. It's not going to be enough.
You have to legitimately do something that gives your system and physiology a chance to back up. What this could look like is maybe I'll give you some physical activity back and you can walk for 30 minutes twice a day with no headphones. No podcast, no stimuli coming in, no music, no talking on the phone. It is reduced arousal. You will have nothing but sympathetic drive coming in all day.
You have to legitimately do something that gives your system and physiology a chance to back up. What this could look like is maybe I'll give you some physical activity back and you can walk for 30 minutes twice a day with no headphones. No podcast, no stimuli coming in, no music, no talking on the phone. It is reduced arousal. You will have nothing but sympathetic drive coming in all day.
You have to legitimately do something that gives your system and physiology a chance to back up. What this could look like is maybe I'll give you some physical activity back and you can walk for 30 minutes twice a day with no headphones. No podcast, no stimuli coming in, no music, no talking on the phone. It is reduced arousal. You will have nothing but sympathetic drive coming in all day.
You have to give some processing time. Now, what's interesting that you said about that is if I took your exercise away, your mental health, whatever, however you want to phrase it, would tank. My mood. Sure.
You have to give some processing time. Now, what's interesting that you said about that is if I took your exercise away, your mental health, whatever, however you want to phrase it, would tank. My mood. Sure.
You have to give some processing time. Now, what's interesting that you said about that is if I took your exercise away, your mental health, whatever, however you want to phrase it, would tank. My mood. Sure.
But you know what I just did in the second thing? What? I just forced you to deal with that. Because I said, we're going to go for a 30 minute walk and you don't get to distract yourself with podcasts and music. Which means what's going to happen in that 30 minute time? You're going to have to process. You're going to have to process things. And that sucks.
But you know what I just did in the second thing? What? I just forced you to deal with that. Because I said, we're going to go for a 30 minute walk and you don't get to distract yourself with podcasts and music. Which means what's going to happen in that 30 minute time? You're going to have to process. You're going to have to process things. And that sucks.
But you know what I just did in the second thing? What? I just forced you to deal with that. Because I said, we're going to go for a 30 minute walk and you don't get to distract yourself with podcasts and music. Which means what's going to happen in that 30 minute time? You're going to have to process. You're going to have to process things. And that sucks.
That's why you want to train because you don't want to process.
That's why you want to train because you don't want to process.
That's why you want to train because you don't want to process.
All the stuff you're doing in life is distraction. So you don't have to process either emotionally or subconsciously. You don't want to have to process those things. So you're just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If I just keep putting things in my ear, I won't have to deal with the things that are between my ears. Right. Now I'm taking that option away. And you have to go deal with it.
All the stuff you're doing in life is distraction. So you don't have to process either emotionally or subconsciously. You don't want to have to process those things. So you're just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If I just keep putting things in my ear, I won't have to deal with the things that are between my ears. Right. Now I'm taking that option away. And you have to go deal with it.
All the stuff you're doing in life is distraction. So you don't have to process either emotionally or subconsciously. You don't want to have to process those things. So you're just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If I just keep putting things in my ear, I won't have to deal with the things that are between my ears. Right. Now I'm taking that option away. And you have to go deal with it.
The fact that when you say that, and this is not my particular realm, I'm a physiologist, but we have a tremendous amount of behavioral therapists and psychologists and stuff on our teams. And we see this stuff so routinely. I feel a little bit fair to like go at it this way.
The fact that when you say that, and this is not my particular realm, I'm a physiologist, but we have a tremendous amount of behavioral therapists and psychologists and stuff on our teams. And we see this stuff so routinely. I feel a little bit fair to like go at it this way.
The fact that when you say that, and this is not my particular realm, I'm a physiologist, but we have a tremendous amount of behavioral therapists and psychologists and stuff on our teams. And we see this stuff so routinely. I feel a little bit fair to like go at it this way.
This is exactly what that person, like if you came into our program, if you're in our chair right now, I would be like chuckling. I'd be like, Emily. You're on. Here you go.
This is exactly what that person, like if you came into our program, if you're in our chair right now, I would be like chuckling. I'd be like, Emily. You're on. Here you go.
This is exactly what that person, like if you came into our program, if you're in our chair right now, I would be like chuckling. I'd be like, Emily. You're on. Here you go.
Take her. Because we know this story. You've just seen it so many times. Like, I know the thing you're going to say. I know the next excuse you're going to say. Let me guess. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah. Great. We've seen it.
Take her. Because we know this story. You've just seen it so many times. Like, I know the thing you're going to say. I know the next excuse you're going to say. Let me guess. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah. Great. We've seen it.
Take her. Because we know this story. You've just seen it so many times. Like, I know the thing you're going to say. I know the next excuse you're going to say. Let me guess. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah. Great. We've seen it.
No doubt.
No doubt.
No doubt.
It depends on how silly you want to be here. Let's be really silly, Andy. Now, I'm a physiologist, so I'm going to offend people right now on purpose. It's a joke, everyone. It's just a joke. But I always say that psychology is just misunderstood physiology. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. What I mean by that is, again, it's a joke, okay? Okay, it's not just mental for some people.
It depends on how silly you want to be here. Let's be really silly, Andy. Now, I'm a physiologist, so I'm going to offend people right now on purpose. It's a joke, everyone. It's just a joke. But I always say that psychology is just misunderstood physiology. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. What I mean by that is, again, it's a joke, okay? Okay, it's not just mental for some people.
It depends on how silly you want to be here. Let's be really silly, Andy. Now, I'm a physiologist, so I'm going to offend people right now on purpose. It's a joke, everyone. It's just a joke. But I always say that psychology is just misunderstood physiology. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. What I mean by that is, again, it's a joke, okay? Okay, it's not just mental for some people.
In this case, it can be. But if there are things happening in your metabolism, it can be causing this whole process. So you feel like you have to run all the time, not because you actually have anything going on upstairs, but simply because things like your respiratory rate is greatly exceeding your metabolic input. And so when you feel that mismatch, you don't feel normal.
In this case, it can be. But if there are things happening in your metabolism, it can be causing this whole process. So you feel like you have to run all the time, not because you actually have anything going on upstairs, but simply because things like your respiratory rate is greatly exceeding your metabolic input. And so when you feel that mismatch, you don't feel normal.
In this case, it can be. But if there are things happening in your metabolism, it can be causing this whole process. So you feel like you have to run all the time, not because you actually have anything going on upstairs, but simply because things like your respiratory rate is greatly exceeding your metabolic input. And so when you feel that mismatch, you don't feel normal.
When you feel normal then is when you increase your metabolic rate to match your respiratory rate and things are balanced again. And so people that are really addicted to exercise, not always, but a lot of the times, they have this going on. So this is actually a metabolic issue. It's just sending signals that are screaming to you like, you gotta go, you gotta go, you gotta go, you gotta go.
When you feel normal then is when you increase your metabolic rate to match your respiratory rate and things are balanced again. And so people that are really addicted to exercise, not always, but a lot of the times, they have this going on. So this is actually a metabolic issue. It's just sending signals that are screaming to you like, you gotta go, you gotta go, you gotta go, you gotta go.
When you feel normal then is when you increase your metabolic rate to match your respiratory rate and things are balanced again. And so people that are really addicted to exercise, not always, but a lot of the times, they have this going on. So this is actually a metabolic issue. It's just sending signals that are screaming to you like, you gotta go, you gotta go, you gotta go, you gotta go.
And it's not, it feels or can also be expressed as a psychological thing, but it is really at its core, in this case, driven by accelerated metabolism, if you wanna call it that, And you feel mismatched. That's what it is, right? And so what we can do is come backwards and go, yo, let's slow that thing down a little bit. And so you should feel normal at rest as well, but you're not.
And it's not, it feels or can also be expressed as a psychological thing, but it is really at its core, in this case, driven by accelerated metabolism, if you wanna call it that, And you feel mismatched. That's what it is, right? And so what we can do is come backwards and go, yo, let's slow that thing down a little bit. And so you should feel normal at rest as well, but you're not.
And it's not, it feels or can also be expressed as a psychological thing, but it is really at its core, in this case, driven by accelerated metabolism, if you wanna call it that, And you feel mismatched. That's what it is, right? And so what we can do is come backwards and go, yo, let's slow that thing down a little bit. And so you should feel normal at rest as well, but you're not.
So we can match you there. And this is exactly why we see this routinely where people feel more calm, more focused. Thank you.
So we can match you there. And this is exactly why we see this routinely where people feel more calm, more focused. Thank you.
So we can match you there. And this is exactly why we see this routinely where people feel more calm, more focused. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. , , , , , ,, in P. P. P. P. P. P,實, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a a We take your sleep tracker away. We take your morning meditation away. We take your sauna stuff away because you can become hyper fixated on these things. Orthosomnia is very real, right?
Thank you. , , , , , ,, in P. P. P. P. P. P,實, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a a We take your sleep tracker away. We take your morning meditation away. We take your sauna stuff away because you can become hyper fixated on these things. Orthosomnia is very real, right?
Thank you. , , , , , ,, in P. P. P. P. P. P,實, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a a We take your sleep tracker away. We take your morning meditation away. We take your sauna stuff away because you can become hyper fixated on these things. Orthosomnia is very real, right?
They can. Some people, it doesn't matter. Some people, it's neutral. And some people, it's really deleterious. I've told this story a bunch, and I always tell people I have permission, but I coach a guy named Jon Rahm, one of the top golfers in the world. And he was pretty public about this. He threw that stuff away because it was very clearly making his stuff get worse.
They can. Some people, it doesn't matter. Some people, it's neutral. And some people, it's really deleterious. I've told this story a bunch, and I always tell people I have permission, but I coach a guy named Jon Rahm, one of the top golfers in the world. And he was pretty public about this. He threw that stuff away because it was very clearly making his stuff get worse.
They can. Some people, it doesn't matter. Some people, it's neutral. And some people, it's really deleterious. I've told this story a bunch, and I always tell people I have permission, but I coach a guy named Jon Rahm, one of the top golfers in the world. And he was pretty public about this. He threw that stuff away because it was very clearly making his stuff get worse.
all other reasons so he's we've gone away from and he is one of the most highly paid athletes in the entire world he is yeah like insanely highly paid we can afford anything with his we can do anything we want technology wise with him and we don't use those things because he was just making things worse perfect yeah exactly right So what do you do with him?
all other reasons so he's we've gone away from and he is one of the most highly paid athletes in the entire world he is yeah like insanely highly paid we can afford anything with his we can do anything we want technology wise with him and we don't use those things because he was just making things worse perfect yeah exactly right So what do you do with him?
all other reasons so he's we've gone away from and he is one of the most highly paid athletes in the entire world he is yeah like insanely highly paid we can afford anything with his we can do anything we want technology wise with him and we don't use those things because he was just making things worse perfect yeah exactly right So what do you do with him?
Lots of different things that are specific to what he's doing. But the point I'm trying to make is it's not just about can you afford the technology? Can you afford the test? Because even those things that feel innocuous can be deleterious. I'll actually go back to the very beginning. And this is really important because of things like genetic testing.
Lots of different things that are specific to what he's doing. But the point I'm trying to make is it's not just about can you afford the technology? Can you afford the test? Because even those things that feel innocuous can be deleterious. I'll actually go back to the very beginning. And this is really important because of things like genetic testing.
Lots of different things that are specific to what he's doing. But the point I'm trying to make is it's not just about can you afford the technology? Can you afford the test? Because even those things that feel innocuous can be deleterious. I'll actually go back to the very beginning. And this is really important because of things like genetic testing.
There are ample data now that will show pretty clearly that when people have tests done based on their genetics, that they take the information more seriously and they have bigger follow through. Now this is a huge, huge problem because if that information is poor, which it almost always is, then we tend to drive a lot of negative behavior and a lot of problems.
There are ample data now that will show pretty clearly that when people have tests done based on their genetics, that they take the information more seriously and they have bigger follow through. Now this is a huge, huge problem because if that information is poor, which it almost always is, then we tend to drive a lot of negative behavior and a lot of problems.
There are ample data now that will show pretty clearly that when people have tests done based on their genetics, that they take the information more seriously and they have bigger follow through. Now this is a huge, huge problem because if that information is poor, which it almost always is, then we tend to drive a lot of negative behavior and a lot of problems.
And so the reason I'm bringing that up is people say things like, well, why not do that test? It's only a couple of hundred bucks. You'll get more data and there's no harm. There is harm. There is legitimately harm, even if it's a couple of hundred dollars in a sleep tracker, a couple of hundred dollars for genetic tests.
And so the reason I'm bringing that up is people say things like, well, why not do that test? It's only a couple of hundred bucks. You'll get more data and there's no harm. There is harm. There is legitimately harm, even if it's a couple of hundred dollars in a sleep tracker, a couple of hundred dollars for genetic tests.
And so the reason I'm bringing that up is people say things like, well, why not do that test? It's only a couple of hundred bucks. You'll get more data and there's no harm. There is harm. There is legitimately harm, even if it's a couple of hundred dollars in a sleep tracker, a couple of hundred dollars for genetic tests.
Not gonna harm everybody, most people won't, but for some people, there is a risk here. It's not just a couple of hundred dollars. And so you need to be really careful whether you're coaching people or advising people or you're a clinician or it's you yourself. If the product or service is serving you, great, I'm all for it. Spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for all I care.
Not gonna harm everybody, most people won't, but for some people, there is a risk here. It's not just a couple of hundred dollars. And so you need to be really careful whether you're coaching people or advising people or you're a clinician or it's you yourself. If the product or service is serving you, great, I'm all for it. Spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for all I care.
Not gonna harm everybody, most people won't, but for some people, there is a risk here. It's not just a couple of hundred dollars. And so you need to be really careful whether you're coaching people or advising people or you're a clinician or it's you yourself. If the product or service is serving you, great, I'm all for it. Spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for all I care.
If it is making things worse though, then you need to pay attention to that client. Pay attention to what they're saying and be really careful. Something as simple as a food tracker can really harm some people if they have poor associations and regulations with food. So it's not the technology. It's none of those things that I care about.
If it is making things worse though, then you need to pay attention to that client. Pay attention to what they're saying and be really careful. Something as simple as a food tracker can really harm some people if they have poor associations and regulations with food. So it's not the technology. It's none of those things that I care about.
If it is making things worse though, then you need to pay attention to that client. Pay attention to what they're saying and be really careful. Something as simple as a food tracker can really harm some people if they have poor associations and regulations with food. So it's not the technology. It's none of those things that I care about.
It's just you really paying attention and realizing what's actually happening and going, oh yeah, great, great, great. We're going to take the red light away from you. Well, I realize, but no, no, no, no. But just because you right now, it's bad. Right, right, right. That's all it is. That's coaching.
It's just you really paying attention and realizing what's actually happening and going, oh yeah, great, great, great. We're going to take the red light away from you. Well, I realize, but no, no, no, no. But just because you right now, it's bad. Right, right, right. That's all it is. That's coaching.
It's just you really paying attention and realizing what's actually happening and going, oh yeah, great, great, great. We're going to take the red light away from you. Well, I realize, but no, no, no, no. But just because you right now, it's bad. Right, right, right. That's all it is. That's coaching.
Of course it's okay. In fact, it's, um, I mean, geez, that is a really, I hope it wasn't actually teed up that way from people. That'd be a really terrible message.
Of course it's okay. In fact, it's, um, I mean, geez, that is a really, I hope it wasn't actually teed up that way from people. That'd be a really terrible message.
Of course it's okay. In fact, it's, um, I mean, geez, that is a really, I hope it wasn't actually teed up that way from people. That'd be a really terrible message.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm saying other people did.
I'm saying other people did.
I'm saying other people did.
No, no, no. Okay. Okay. All right. Timeout here. Timeout here. Timeout. Okay. Exercise science 101 here. First and foremost, almost all forms of exercise are great, right? So I don't care what it is in terms of short and long-term health. Okay. In fact, if you look at any amount of data on longevity, lifespan, healthspan, strengthspan, wellnessspan, pick your terms here, you will routinely see
No, no, no. Okay. Okay. All right. Timeout here. Timeout here. Timeout. Okay. Exercise science 101 here. First and foremost, almost all forms of exercise are great, right? So I don't care what it is in terms of short and long-term health. Okay. In fact, if you look at any amount of data on longevity, lifespan, healthspan, strengthspan, wellnessspan, pick your terms here, you will routinely see
No, no, no. Okay. Okay. All right. Timeout here. Timeout here. Timeout. Okay. Exercise science 101 here. First and foremost, almost all forms of exercise are great, right? So I don't care what it is in terms of short and long-term health. Okay. In fact, if you look at any amount of data on longevity, lifespan, healthspan, strengthspan, wellnessspan, pick your terms here, you will routinely see
The best combination of all exercise over a long span is going to be the blend of something in the world of strength training and something in the world of cardiovascular training. That is unequivocal at this point. It is inarguable at this point. Now, can you hedge towards one over the other a little bit more? Sure.
The best combination of all exercise over a long span is going to be the blend of something in the world of strength training and something in the world of cardiovascular training. That is unequivocal at this point. It is inarguable at this point. Now, can you hedge towards one over the other a little bit more? Sure.
The best combination of all exercise over a long span is going to be the blend of something in the world of strength training and something in the world of cardiovascular training. That is unequivocal at this point. It is inarguable at this point. Now, can you hedge towards one over the other a little bit more? Sure.
Of course, if you like to do more endurance and conditioning and if you want to call it cardio work, great. But don't leave strength training off the table. If you're only cycling, only running, I would guarantee you, and as a scientist, I don't like saying things like that, but I would pretty much guarantee you, you're leaving some health and productivity on the table.
Of course, if you like to do more endurance and conditioning and if you want to call it cardio work, great. But don't leave strength training off the table. If you're only cycling, only running, I would guarantee you, and as a scientist, I don't like saying things like that, but I would pretty much guarantee you, you're leaving some health and productivity on the table.
Of course, if you like to do more endurance and conditioning and if you want to call it cardio work, great. But don't leave strength training off the table. If you're only cycling, only running, I would guarantee you, and as a scientist, I don't like saying things like that, but I would pretty much guarantee you, you're leaving some health and productivity on the table.
And I'd say the same thing about strength training. If you're only lifting weights and you're not doing anything else, I definitely would be comfortable in saying you are leaving health and performance in the short and long-term on the table. Like you're leaving gains there. So how do I blend these two? Well, there is a reality.
And I'd say the same thing about strength training. If you're only lifting weights and you're not doing anything else, I definitely would be comfortable in saying you are leaving health and performance in the short and long-term on the table. Like you're leaving gains there. So how do I blend these two? Well, there is a reality.
And I'd say the same thing about strength training. If you're only lifting weights and you're not doing anything else, I definitely would be comfortable in saying you are leaving health and performance in the short and long-term on the table. Like you're leaving gains there. So how do I blend these two? Well, there is a reality.
If you are trying to maximize any adaptation, you wanna get your legs stronger, you wanna get bigger shoulders, you wanna get more flexible, you wanna run your first marathon, I don't care.
If you are trying to maximize any adaptation, you wanna get your legs stronger, you wanna get bigger shoulders, you wanna get more flexible, you wanna run your first marathon, I don't care.
If you are trying to maximize any adaptation, you wanna get your legs stronger, you wanna get bigger shoulders, you wanna get more flexible, you wanna run your first marathon, I don't care.
I'm starting off on one side. Okay. Just making sure. If you want to maximize one adaptation, the more you focus on that and nothing else, the faster you'll get to that goal. So if you're like, wow, I want to run a marathon. great, I want to do a half marathon. Then I would say we are going to focus almost exclusively on running moderate to long distances.
I'm starting off on one side. Okay. Just making sure. If you want to maximize one adaptation, the more you focus on that and nothing else, the faster you'll get to that goal. So if you're like, wow, I want to run a marathon. great, I want to do a half marathon. Then I would say we are going to focus almost exclusively on running moderate to long distances.
I'm starting off on one side. Okay. Just making sure. If you want to maximize one adaptation, the more you focus on that and nothing else, the faster you'll get to that goal. So if you're like, wow, I want to run a marathon. great, I want to do a half marathon. Then I would say we are going to focus almost exclusively on running moderate to long distances.
Not entirely, but almost exclusively, right? I'm not going to be like, I'll run once a week and let's lift some weights. It'd be a terrible training program. Same thing if you said, I want to squat double body weight for the first time ever. All right, great. We're going to be squatting. This is not rocket science, right? That said...
Not entirely, but almost exclusively, right? I'm not going to be like, I'll run once a week and let's lift some weights. It'd be a terrible training program. Same thing if you said, I want to squat double body weight for the first time ever. All right, great. We're going to be squatting. This is not rocket science, right? That said...
Not entirely, but almost exclusively, right? I'm not going to be like, I'll run once a week and let's lift some weights. It'd be a terrible training program. Same thing if you said, I want to squat double body weight for the first time ever. All right, great. We're going to be squatting. This is not rocket science, right? That said...
When you move past one individual specific goal and you're looking for well-roundedness, I wanna be lean and I wanna have energy and I don't want my joints to hurt and I want, fine, whatever those define you, then we're gonna have a combination of these two things. What you're referring to is what we would often call like a crossover or blocking effect, right?
When you move past one individual specific goal and you're looking for well-roundedness, I wanna be lean and I wanna have energy and I don't want my joints to hurt and I want, fine, whatever those define you, then we're gonna have a combination of these two things. What you're referring to is what we would often call like a crossover or blocking effect, right?
When you move past one individual specific goal and you're looking for well-roundedness, I wanna be lean and I wanna have energy and I don't want my joints to hurt and I want, fine, whatever those define you, then we're gonna have a combination of these two things. What you're referring to is what we would often call like a crossover or blocking effect, right?
Where if you do a bunch of strength training, it's not going to limit your gains in cardiovascular training. Very rarely are lifting weights or plyometrics or power training going to make an endurance athlete worse. Almost always it makes them better. But the opposite isn't true. If you do a bunch of volume conditioning-wise or endurance-wise, this will eventually limit muscle growth, right?
Where if you do a bunch of strength training, it's not going to limit your gains in cardiovascular training. Very rarely are lifting weights or plyometrics or power training going to make an endurance athlete worse. Almost always it makes them better. But the opposite isn't true. If you do a bunch of volume conditioning-wise or endurance-wise, this will eventually limit muscle growth, right?
Where if you do a bunch of strength training, it's not going to limit your gains in cardiovascular training. Very rarely are lifting weights or plyometrics or power training going to make an endurance athlete worse. Almost always it makes them better. But the opposite isn't true. If you do a bunch of volume conditioning-wise or endurance-wise, this will eventually limit muscle growth, right?
Bodybuilders don't run 20 miles a day, very clearly, right? That got blown out of proportion though. And I was as guilty as that many years ago saying the same thing, right? So then this sort of got portrayed as like, hey, if you do any cardio, it's gonna block all your gains. No, it's not. No, it's not at all, right?
Bodybuilders don't run 20 miles a day, very clearly, right? That got blown out of proportion though. And I was as guilty as that many years ago saying the same thing, right? So then this sort of got portrayed as like, hey, if you do any cardio, it's gonna block all your gains. No, it's not. No, it's not at all, right?
Bodybuilders don't run 20 miles a day, very clearly, right? That got blown out of proportion though. And I was as guilty as that many years ago saying the same thing, right? So then this sort of got portrayed as like, hey, if you do any cardio, it's gonna block all your gains. No, it's not. No, it's not at all, right?
If you're trying to maximize strength, and I mean like really maximize it, not get stronger, I mean like set a world record, get the strongest you've ever been in your life, then you probably don't want to waste a lot of your energy and your recovery capacity on running miles. or swimming miles. Like that just makes a lot of sense.
If you're trying to maximize strength, and I mean like really maximize it, not get stronger, I mean like set a world record, get the strongest you've ever been in your life, then you probably don't want to waste a lot of your energy and your recovery capacity on running miles. or swimming miles. Like that just makes a lot of sense.
If you're trying to maximize strength, and I mean like really maximize it, not get stronger, I mean like set a world record, get the strongest you've ever been in your life, then you probably don't want to waste a lot of your energy and your recovery capacity on running miles. or swimming miles. Like that just makes a lot of sense.
Save all your energy so that you can truly go in, put a maximum effort in. Any amount of energy you don't have in recovery that you wasted on the treadmill takes away from that goal, right? The same thing for muscle growth. But does that mean you can't jog a couple of miles here and there? Of course you can.
Save all your energy so that you can truly go in, put a maximum effort in. Any amount of energy you don't have in recovery that you wasted on the treadmill takes away from that goal, right? The same thing for muscle growth. But does that mean you can't jog a couple of miles here and there? Of course you can.
Save all your energy so that you can truly go in, put a maximum effort in. Any amount of energy you don't have in recovery that you wasted on the treadmill takes away from that goal, right? The same thing for muscle growth. But does that mean you can't jog a couple of miles here and there? Of course you can.
Energy expenditure is a huge component to it. There is a number of review articles that have been published on this My colleague and friend, Dr. Kevin Murak at Arkansas and Jimmy Bagley at San Francisco State published a great one. And it basically said total volume, overall energy intake, the type of exercise you're doing.
Energy expenditure is a huge component to it. There is a number of review articles that have been published on this My colleague and friend, Dr. Kevin Murak at Arkansas and Jimmy Bagley at San Francisco State published a great one. And it basically said total volume, overall energy intake, the type of exercise you're doing.
Energy expenditure is a huge component to it. There is a number of review articles that have been published on this My colleague and friend, Dr. Kevin Murak at Arkansas and Jimmy Bagley at San Francisco State published a great one. And it basically said total volume, overall energy intake, the type of exercise you're doing.
So things like swimming don't have nearly as much of an interference effect on muscle growth as things like running, because it's an impact on your quads, right? You're trying to grow your quads, but then you're damp. You get the idea. So cycling doesn't have as much of an interference effect. It's not as landing. So all these factors go into it.
So things like swimming don't have nearly as much of an interference effect on muscle growth as things like running, because it's an impact on your quads, right? You're trying to grow your quads, but then you're damp. You get the idea. So cycling doesn't have as much of an interference effect. It's not as landing. So all these factors go into it.
So things like swimming don't have nearly as much of an interference effect on muscle growth as things like running, because it's an impact on your quads, right? You're trying to grow your quads, but then you're damp. You get the idea. So cycling doesn't have as much of an interference effect. It's not as landing. So all these factors go into it.
In terms of if you're trying to maximize muscle strength or growth. But that said, that running volume has to get pretty high for it to do any amount of interference. How much do you think you need to run to ruin your muscles? Depends on the person. If you don't run and I have you run two miles a day, that's going to crush you, right?
In terms of if you're trying to maximize muscle strength or growth. But that said, that running volume has to get pretty high for it to do any amount of interference. How much do you think you need to run to ruin your muscles? Depends on the person. If you don't run and I have you run two miles a day, that's going to crush you, right?
In terms of if you're trying to maximize muscle strength or growth. But that said, that running volume has to get pretty high for it to do any amount of interference. How much do you think you need to run to ruin your muscles? Depends on the person. If you don't run and I have you run two miles a day, that's going to crush you, right?
If you run a lot and you run two miles a day, it might not do anything at all.
If you run a lot and you run two miles a day, it might not do anything at all.
If you run a lot and you run two miles a day, it might not do anything at all.
50 to 100 miles a week.
50 to 100 miles a week.
50 to 100 miles a week.
No, no, no, there isn't. I would say for you, three to four miles a day probably is getting on the line of limiting muscle growth and strength if you're trying to maximize that. So here's what I'd say to you. All right, you want to get, let's get jacked, right? You want to get as big as you can. Like you want to go, you want to put on some muscle right now.
No, no, no, there isn't. I would say for you, three to four miles a day probably is getting on the line of limiting muscle growth and strength if you're trying to maximize that. So here's what I'd say to you. All right, you want to get, let's get jacked, right? You want to get as big as you can. Like you want to go, you want to put on some muscle right now.
No, no, no, there isn't. I would say for you, three to four miles a day probably is getting on the line of limiting muscle growth and strength if you're trying to maximize that. So here's what I'd say to you. All right, you want to get, let's get jacked, right? You want to get as big as you can. Like you want to go, you want to put on some muscle right now.
Can we back that off to like two miles a day? Just for the next, say, eight weeks. Great. And after that, we're going to change our focus a little bit. We'll put some miles back in. We'll see if we can maintain this new muscle and strength for as long as we can. But I can't have everything pegged all the way up to the top and then expect progress.
Can we back that off to like two miles a day? Just for the next, say, eight weeks. Great. And after that, we're going to change our focus a little bit. We'll put some miles back in. We'll see if we can maintain this new muscle and strength for as long as we can. But I can't have everything pegged all the way up to the top and then expect progress.
Can we back that off to like two miles a day? Just for the next, say, eight weeks. Great. And after that, we're going to change our focus a little bit. We'll put some miles back in. We'll see if we can maintain this new muscle and strength for as long as we can. But I can't have everything pegged all the way up to the top and then expect progress.
There you go. Right. Like, and then really was it a, was it this big molecular interference effect or was it the fact that it just took away your training quality? Right. It's not some big sciencey thing. You just didn't train as hard because of it.
There you go. Right. Like, and then really was it a, was it this big molecular interference effect or was it the fact that it just took away your training quality? Right. It's not some big sciencey thing. You just didn't train as hard because of it.
There you go. Right. Like, and then really was it a, was it this big molecular interference effect or was it the fact that it just took away your training quality? Right. It's not some big sciencey thing. You just didn't train as hard because of it.
Of course. Yep. So what you can do in that scenario is a couple of things. Switch the order, train first, get your lift in first, and then you got any juice left, go for your run.
Of course. Yep. So what you can do in that scenario is a couple of things. Switch the order, train first, get your lift in first, and then you got any juice left, go for your run.
Of course. Yep. So what you can do in that scenario is a couple of things. Switch the order, train first, get your lift in first, and then you got any juice left, go for your run.
Not really. Nope.
Not really. Nope.
Not really. Nope.
Yes. The easy rule here is priority. Do the thing that is the most important to you when you're the most fresh. And now to be clear, I'm saying most fresh. I'm not saying first in the day.
Yes. The easy rule here is priority. Do the thing that is the most important to you when you're the most fresh. And now to be clear, I'm saying most fresh. I'm not saying first in the day.
Yes. The easy rule here is priority. Do the thing that is the most important to you when you're the most fresh. And now to be clear, I'm saying most fresh. I'm not saying first in the day.
Some people, a lot of our competitive athletes, they train, like in a couple of weeks, one of my athletes is fighting for a UFC championship in Australia. A girl, Tatiana Suarez, right? Now, she is a main event fighter. When she fights, she fights at like 8 to 9 to 10 p.m. So she doesn't get up and do six o'clock workouts. That would be a terrible time, right?
Some people, a lot of our competitive athletes, they train, like in a couple of weeks, one of my athletes is fighting for a UFC championship in Australia. A girl, Tatiana Suarez, right? Now, she is a main event fighter. When she fights, she fights at like 8 to 9 to 10 p.m. So she doesn't get up and do six o'clock workouts. That would be a terrible time, right?
Some people, a lot of our competitive athletes, they train, like in a couple of weeks, one of my athletes is fighting for a UFC championship in Australia. A girl, Tatiana Suarez, right? Now, she is a main event fighter. When she fights, she fights at like 8 to 9 to 10 p.m. So she doesn't get up and do six o'clock workouts. That would be a terrible time, right?
So not her specifically, but people like that, we will do their best, most important training session late at night because that's when they're the most fresh. You get up and they train in the morning, they will train, but they're not actually ready to go because they're physiologically peaking at 6 p.m., 7 p.m. Other people are the opposite, right?
So not her specifically, but people like that, we will do their best, most important training session late at night because that's when they're the most fresh. You get up and they train in the morning, they will train, but they're not actually ready to go because they're physiologically peaking at 6 p.m., 7 p.m. Other people are the opposite, right?
So not her specifically, but people like that, we will do their best, most important training session late at night because that's when they're the most fresh. You get up and they train in the morning, they will train, but they're not actually ready to go because they're physiologically peaking at 6 p.m., 7 p.m. Other people are the opposite, right?
And so it's not just first in the day, it is when are you at your absolute best and that's when we do the most important thing for you.
And so it's not just first in the day, it is when are you at your absolute best and that's when we do the most important thing for you.
And so it's not just first in the day, it is when are you at your absolute best and that's when we do the most important thing for you.
Mentally, physically, all of it, right? Energetically, just like get through our mornings. We take them very slow. We're not up and going. And we are peaking in the evenings.
Mentally, physically, all of it, right? Energetically, just like get through our mornings. We take them very slow. We're not up and going. And we are peaking in the evenings.
Mentally, physically, all of it, right? Energetically, just like get through our mornings. We take them very slow. We're not up and going. And we are peaking in the evenings.
Yep. NBA players, NFL players, like most of our performing athletes, that's how we operate.
Yep. NBA players, NFL players, like most of our performing athletes, that's how we operate.
Yep. NBA players, NFL players, like most of our performing athletes, that's how we operate.
It depends on the individual person, but oftentimes they're doing it after the game. After the game. Same thing. What's your priority today? Play the game. Like you're getting $2 million for that game, not for your workout. whatever you're making.
It depends on the individual person, but oftentimes they're doing it after the game. After the game. Same thing. What's your priority today? Play the game. Like you're getting $2 million for that game, not for your workout. whatever you're making.
It depends on the individual person, but oftentimes they're doing it after the game. After the game. Same thing. What's your priority today? Play the game. Like you're getting $2 million for that game, not for your workout. whatever you're making.
Totally. And now whatever you got left, we'll lift after the game. That's a really common thing in the NBA. Um, major league baseball, it's different. Nobody lifts for the most part after the game. Um, just cause it's, it's so late at night and other things. And, and baseball is a very easy, like physical sport.
Totally. And now whatever you got left, we'll lift after the game. That's a really common thing in the NBA. Um, major league baseball, it's different. Nobody lifts for the most part after the game. Um, just cause it's, it's so late at night and other things. And, and baseball is a very easy, like physical sport.
Totally. And now whatever you got left, we'll lift after the game. That's a really common thing in the NBA. Um, major league baseball, it's different. Nobody lifts for the most part after the game. Um, just cause it's, it's so late at night and other things. And, and baseball is a very easy, like physical sport.
Yeah, exactly. Um,
Yeah, exactly. Um,
Yeah, exactly. Um,
If they're a morning person.
If they're a morning person.
If they're a morning person.
Yeah, so that is when I train always.
Yeah, so that is when I train always.
Yeah, so that is when I train always.
Two to three. If I train at six in the morning, I'm a very early riser. I get up really early.
Two to three. If I train at six in the morning, I'm a very early riser. I get up really early.
Two to three. If I train at six in the morning, I'm a very early riser. I get up really early.
If it's my preference in my world for foreign change in the morning, that's when I like to get up and get going.
If it's my preference in my world for foreign change in the morning, that's when I like to get up and get going.
If it's my preference in my world for foreign change in the morning, that's when I like to get up and get going.
My morning routine is like six minutes.
My morning routine is like six minutes.
My morning routine is like six minutes.
Now I sleep in later now because I have little kids.
Now I sleep in later now because I have little kids.
Now I sleep in later now because I have little kids.
And like, there's this different scenario.
And like, there's this different scenario.
And like, there's this different scenario.
Well, but I mean, by that is now like I wake up at six and set it there.
Well, but I mean, by that is now like I wake up at six and set it there.
Well, but I mean, by that is now like I wake up at six and set it there.
So like I can have time with them and stuff like that. Right. But like prior to kids, I was definitely a, I want to be up at like four or four 15 most mornings and like, like going right. But even when I get up in the morning, if I train two or three hours after waking up, I can get through it, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to be that great.
So like I can have time with them and stuff like that. Right. But like prior to kids, I was definitely a, I want to be up at like four or four 15 most mornings and like, like going right. But even when I get up in the morning, if I train two or three hours after waking up, I can get through it, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to be that great.
So like I can have time with them and stuff like that. Right. But like prior to kids, I was definitely a, I want to be up at like four or four 15 most mornings and like, like going right. But even when I get up in the morning, if I train two or three hours after waking up, I can get through it, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to be that great.
I actually like to get up and I'm usually really on. When I wake up in the morning, I'm like ready to go. I'm ready to go. I want to get up. Like I want to, I want to get to work. Like I want to get going on things like knocking stuff out. Like I'm doing a bunch of different stuff. And then I feel great after that. So then I train and then my energy's high. I feel good.
I actually like to get up and I'm usually really on. When I wake up in the morning, I'm like ready to go. I'm ready to go. I want to get up. Like I want to, I want to get to work. Like I want to get going on things like knocking stuff out. Like I'm doing a bunch of different stuff. And then I feel great after that. So then I train and then my energy's high. I feel good.
I actually like to get up and I'm usually really on. When I wake up in the morning, I'm like ready to go. I'm ready to go. I want to get up. Like I want to, I want to get to work. Like I want to get going on things like knocking stuff out. Like I'm doing a bunch of different stuff. And then I feel great after that. So then I train and then my energy's high. I feel good.
Like everything's out of my brain two or three o'clock in the afternoon.
Like everything's out of my brain two or three o'clock in the afternoon.
Like everything's out of my brain two or three o'clock in the afternoon.
No, I feel great.
No, I feel great.
No, I feel great.
Uh, if I'm going to get up at four, then I'm going to be a better day. Okay.
Uh, if I'm going to get up at four, then I'm going to be a better day. Okay.
Uh, if I'm going to get up at four, then I'm going to be a better day. Okay.
Like energy for different things. So I have a lot of energy at 10, but I'd rather get stuff done work-wise.
Like energy for different things. So I have a lot of energy at 10, but I'd rather get stuff done work-wise.
Like energy for different things. So I have a lot of energy at 10, but I'd rather get stuff done work-wise.
Yeah, so right now we are not getting up at four again because of kids.
Yeah, so right now we are not getting up at four again because of kids.
Yeah, so right now we are not getting up at four again because of kids.
My daughter's six and my son's four.
My daughter's six and my son's four.
My daughter's six and my son's four.
I mean, as you know, it's a magical time that I don't want to miss. So I've changed my lifestyle.
I mean, as you know, it's a magical time that I don't want to miss. So I've changed my lifestyle.
I mean, as you know, it's a magical time that I don't want to miss. So I've changed my lifestyle.
Totally. To be around the kids, which is like fine. Okay, whatever. So I generally get up, always hang out with the kids for a solid like 20 minutes, make breakfast, do all that stuff, just mess around. Then they usually get off and go about their routine. I will take the dogs outside. I live up in the mountains. So I'm going to be in nature within 20 seconds. I'll be in the trees.
Totally. To be around the kids, which is like fine. Okay, whatever. So I generally get up, always hang out with the kids for a solid like 20 minutes, make breakfast, do all that stuff, just mess around. Then they usually get off and go about their routine. I will take the dogs outside. I live up in the mountains. So I'm going to be in nature within 20 seconds. I'll be in the trees.
Totally. To be around the kids, which is like fine. Okay, whatever. So I generally get up, always hang out with the kids for a solid like 20 minutes, make breakfast, do all that stuff, just mess around. Then they usually get off and go about their routine. I will take the dogs outside. I live up in the mountains. So I'm going to be in nature within 20 seconds. I'll be in the trees.
And like there's deer around, there's animals around, like there's coyotes, like They're a bear, elk around, like I'm in nature and moving for the most part there. I don't spend very much time out there initially. Like it's a really quick walk. I just get up going and then I get straight to work.
And like there's deer around, there's animals around, like there's coyotes, like They're a bear, elk around, like I'm in nature and moving for the most part there. I don't spend very much time out there initially. Like it's a really quick walk. I just get up going and then I get straight to work.
And like there's deer around, there's animals around, like there's coyotes, like They're a bear, elk around, like I'm in nature and moving for the most part there. I don't spend very much time out there initially. Like it's a really quick walk. I just get up going and then I get straight to work.
I don't do anything else in the morning, but then get right into work and I feel incredible and I'm usually stoked to get going.
I don't do anything else in the morning, but then get right into work and I feel incredible and I'm usually stoked to get going.
I don't do anything else in the morning, but then get right into work and I feel incredible and I'm usually stoked to get going.
I want to move a little bit. I want to move and I generally want to get like really cold or hot if I can or whatever, like just to get up and get moving. So I've gotten some family time in.
I want to move a little bit. I want to move and I generally want to get like really cold or hot if I can or whatever, like just to get up and get moving. So I've gotten some family time in.
I want to move a little bit. I want to move and I generally want to get like really cold or hot if I can or whatever, like just to get up and get moving. So I've gotten some family time in.
I've gotten food in. I've gotten moving. And now I'm ready to go.
I've gotten food in. I've gotten moving. And now I'm ready to go.
I've gotten food in. I've gotten moving. And now I'm ready to go.
Did you give me them?
Did you give me them?
Did you give me them?
But what I'd say is one general mistake people make with exercise, if you're failing to make progress or hitting your goals, it's oftentimes just a few things. One, you probably don't have any structure to your plan. So people are kind of just like doing whatever they feel like that day and or what we call in the field program hopping.
But what I'd say is one general mistake people make with exercise, if you're failing to make progress or hitting your goals, it's oftentimes just a few things. One, you probably don't have any structure to your plan. So people are kind of just like doing whatever they feel like that day and or what we call in the field program hopping.
But what I'd say is one general mistake people make with exercise, if you're failing to make progress or hitting your goals, it's oftentimes just a few things. One, you probably don't have any structure to your plan. So people are kind of just like doing whatever they feel like that day and or what we call in the field program hopping.
So you're like, you did this kind of program for a week, and then you did this one or whatever, and there's not enough specificity and then not enough overload over time for you to actually drive any adaptations. So that's generally like problem number one. The second one is because of that or similar to it, it's lack of any true progression.
So you're like, you did this kind of program for a week, and then you did this one or whatever, and there's not enough specificity and then not enough overload over time for you to actually drive any adaptations. So that's generally like problem number one. The second one is because of that or similar to it, it's lack of any true progression.
So you're like, you did this kind of program for a week, and then you did this one or whatever, and there's not enough specificity and then not enough overload over time for you to actually drive any adaptations. So that's generally like problem number one. The second one is because of that or similar to it, it's lack of any true progression.
So you do the same workout at the same intensity, at the same repetition range, in the same range of motion, in the same order for years, and then why would you think you would actually make changes? Your body will get very adapted and accustomed to that. You'll be optimized for it. And because of that, you don't make any progress.
So you do the same workout at the same intensity, at the same repetition range, in the same range of motion, in the same order for years, and then why would you think you would actually make changes? Your body will get very adapted and accustomed to that. You'll be optimized for it. And because of that, you don't make any progress.
So you do the same workout at the same intensity, at the same repetition range, in the same range of motion, in the same order for years, and then why would you think you would actually make changes? Your body will get very adapted and accustomed to that. You'll be optimized for it. And because of that, you don't make any progress.
So without going into individual exercises and orders and things like that, because they can vary, the answer can be anything there. In general, if you're following a well-developed plan, at least kind of closely, and you're making some sort of intention for progressive overload, you should be seeing results. If you're not, then you got to go back to those things.
So without going into individual exercises and orders and things like that, because they can vary, the answer can be anything there. In general, if you're following a well-developed plan, at least kind of closely, and you're making some sort of intention for progressive overload, you should be seeing results. If you're not, then you got to go back to those things.
So without going into individual exercises and orders and things like that, because they can vary, the answer can be anything there. In general, if you're following a well-developed plan, at least kind of closely, and you're making some sort of intention for progressive overload, you should be seeing results. If you're not, then you got to go back to those things.
And if you're doing both of those things and you're not seeing progress, now we're probably at the point of consistency and effort. You're actually trying hard. You're working hard. You're like going hard. And are you doing it for more than a week and then falling off for a week and then doing it for two weeks and then you're missing five days?
And if you're doing both of those things and you're not seeing progress, now we're probably at the point of consistency and effort. You're actually trying hard. You're working hard. You're like going hard. And are you doing it for more than a week and then falling off for a week and then doing it for two weeks and then you're missing five days?
And if you're doing both of those things and you're not seeing progress, now we're probably at the point of consistency and effort. You're actually trying hard. You're working hard. You're like going hard. And are you doing it for more than a week and then falling off for a week and then doing it for two weeks and then you're missing five days?
That's just going to be hard to make progress like that.
That's just going to be hard to make progress like that.
That's just going to be hard to make progress like that.
Yeah, this is actually a really cool question. I did an entire podcast on this exact topic.
Yeah, this is actually a really cool question. I did an entire podcast on this exact topic.
Yeah, this is actually a really cool question. I did an entire podcast on this exact topic.
It's like two and a half hours probably. So you can go into all the details. What are the signs? What are the symptoms? What do I measure? What do I pay attention to? Like, how do I know it? And then what do I do about it? I'll try to condense it into just a couple of minutes.
It's like two and a half hours probably. So you can go into all the details. What are the signs? What are the symptoms? What do I measure? What do I pay attention to? Like, how do I know it? And then what do I do about it? I'll try to condense it into just a couple of minutes.
It's like two and a half hours probably. So you can go into all the details. What are the signs? What are the symptoms? What do I measure? What do I pay attention to? Like, how do I know it? And then what do I do about it? I'll try to condense it into just a couple of minutes.
Give me a one minute version of it.
Give me a one minute version of it.
Give me a one minute version of it.
In general, the reason for plateaus is lack of intentional progression. That is simply it. You don't have a plan for how you're going to add weight or reps or many ways you can do it. You just kind of are working. And sometimes you work really hard, but there's no intentional judicious plan of saying this is how we're going to get to that number. Second big thing that causes it is distraction.
In general, the reason for plateaus is lack of intentional progression. That is simply it. You don't have a plan for how you're going to add weight or reps or many ways you can do it. You just kind of are working. And sometimes you work really hard, but there's no intentional judicious plan of saying this is how we're going to get to that number. Second big thing that causes it is distraction.
In general, the reason for plateaus is lack of intentional progression. That is simply it. You don't have a plan for how you're going to add weight or reps or many ways you can do it. You just kind of are working. And sometimes you work really hard, but there's no intentional judicious plan of saying this is how we're going to get to that number. Second big thing that causes it is distraction.
And what I mean by that is you did that lift. Oh, and then also you popped into an extra Pilates class this week. And then you did that extra 16 mile hike. And you're like, okay, there's not enough energy reserves left to put the stressor in that intentional spot. And so the body just kind of recovered everything a little bit. There's no intentionality there.
And what I mean by that is you did that lift. Oh, and then also you popped into an extra Pilates class this week. And then you did that extra 16 mile hike. And you're like, okay, there's not enough energy reserves left to put the stressor in that intentional spot. And so the body just kind of recovered everything a little bit. There's no intentionality there.
And what I mean by that is you did that lift. Oh, and then also you popped into an extra Pilates class this week. And then you did that extra 16 mile hike. And you're like, okay, there's not enough energy reserves left to put the stressor in that intentional spot. And so the body just kind of recovered everything a little bit. There's no intentionality there.
You have to train something hard, hard-ish, and then not distract it with other adaptations and other things that deplete energy reserves. So if it's not that, those first two things, then the third big thing that it comes down to is are you making some grand limitation in the other big rocks? You just don't have enough calories. You're not getting enough protein.
You have to train something hard, hard-ish, and then not distract it with other adaptations and other things that deplete energy reserves. So if it's not that, those first two things, then the third big thing that it comes down to is are you making some grand limitation in the other big rocks? You just don't have enough calories. You're not getting enough protein.
You have to train something hard, hard-ish, and then not distract it with other adaptations and other things that deplete energy reserves. So if it's not that, those first two things, then the third big thing that it comes down to is are you making some grand limitation in the other big rocks? You just don't have enough calories. You're not getting enough protein.
You're having big limitations in your sleep or something like that. So if it's not the stress input, which is those first two, then it is the stress output side of it, which is you're not allowing enough recovery capacity to actually build any structural change. So as long as you're taking care of those big things, most people will go right past plateaus.
You're having big limitations in your sleep or something like that. So if it's not the stress input, which is those first two, then it is the stress output side of it, which is you're not allowing enough recovery capacity to actually build any structural change. So as long as you're taking care of those big things, most people will go right past plateaus.
You're having big limitations in your sleep or something like that. So if it's not the stress input, which is those first two, then it is the stress output side of it, which is you're not allowing enough recovery capacity to actually build any structural change. So as long as you're taking care of those big things, most people will go right past plateaus.
Number five is if it's not any of those first four, it's just a time issue. The better you get, the more well-trained you are, the longer it takes to make progress. So when we hear people that are pretty well-trained and experienced and like, man, I'm plateaued, I'm plateaued. And I'm like, all right, how long has it been? Oh, it's been three weeks. Okay, that's not a plateau.
Number five is if it's not any of those first four, it's just a time issue. The better you get, the more well-trained you are, the longer it takes to make progress. So when we hear people that are pretty well-trained and experienced and like, man, I'm plateaued, I'm plateaued. And I'm like, all right, how long has it been? Oh, it's been three weeks. Okay, that's not a plateau.
Number five is if it's not any of those first four, it's just a time issue. The better you get, the more well-trained you are, the longer it takes to make progress. So when we hear people that are pretty well-trained and experienced and like, man, I'm plateaued, I'm plateaued. And I'm like, all right, how long has it been? Oh, it's been three weeks. Okay, that's not a plateau.
That is a normal adaptation response time. Oh, it's been three months. How long have you been lifting? 15 years. Three months is nothing then. When we have our Olympic weightlifters and professional powerlifters, and the Olympic weightlifters, for example, are training for the Olympics, if we saw a gain every three months, we'd be breaking world records.
That is a normal adaptation response time. Oh, it's been three months. How long have you been lifting? 15 years. Three months is nothing then. When we have our Olympic weightlifters and professional powerlifters, and the Olympic weightlifters, for example, are training for the Olympics, if we saw a gain every three months, we'd be breaking world records.
That is a normal adaptation response time. Oh, it's been three months. How long have you been lifting? 15 years. Three months is nothing then. When we have our Olympic weightlifters and professional powerlifters, and the Olympic weightlifters, for example, are training for the Olympics, if we saw a gain every three months, we'd be breaking world records.
You plan the four years out and saying we're trying to get a peak at the end of this four years. So that's a pretty extreme example. But when you get really to the end of your strength spectrum or whatever you're after, it just takes a long time. And so you're probably not at a plateau. You're just at a level of where we can't perceive the progress.
You plan the four years out and saying we're trying to get a peak at the end of this four years. So that's a pretty extreme example. But when you get really to the end of your strength spectrum or whatever you're after, it just takes a long time. And so you're probably not at a plateau. You're just at a level of where we can't perceive the progress.
You plan the four years out and saying we're trying to get a peak at the end of this four years. So that's a pretty extreme example. But when you get really to the end of your strength spectrum or whatever you're after, it just takes a long time. And so you're probably not at a plateau. You're just at a level of where we can't perceive the progress.
The increments are going slower than we realize, right? So if you want to think about it this way, you've gained a half a pound of strength. But how can I see that in the weight room?
The increments are going slower than we realize, right? So if you want to think about it this way, you've gained a half a pound of strength. But how can I see that in the weight room?
The increments are going slower than we realize, right? So if you want to think about it this way, you've gained a half a pound of strength. But how can I see that in the weight room?
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Yep. So now you have to just be a little more patient in your progress and realize that, yeah, when you first started your journey, you were losing five pounds every week or every time you went to the gym, you were adding more weight. Well, again, did you think that that was going to last forever and you were going to break world records by year one? Right. Like just do the basic math there.
Yep. So now you have to just be a little more patient in your progress and realize that, yeah, when you first started your journey, you were losing five pounds every week or every time you went to the gym, you were adding more weight. Well, again, did you think that that was going to last forever and you were going to break world records by year one? Right. Like just do the basic math there.
Yep. So now you have to just be a little more patient in your progress and realize that, yeah, when you first started your journey, you were losing five pounds every week or every time you went to the gym, you were adding more weight. Well, again, did you think that that was going to last forever and you were going to break world records by year one? Right. Like just do the basic math there.
You'd be squatting 6,000 pounds by next year.
You'd be squatting 6,000 pounds by next year.
You'd be squatting 6,000 pounds by next year.
Not going to happen, right?
Not going to happen, right?
Not going to happen, right?
You know, people will always say this. You don't make progress in the gym. Your progress comes at home, which is the way of saying like nothing will change, whether we're talking about gaining muscle, losing fat, neuroplasticity, enhanced, like you pick the physiological adaptation and it does not happen during the stimulus. It happens post-stimuli. So how important is recovery?
You know, people will always say this. You don't make progress in the gym. Your progress comes at home, which is the way of saying like nothing will change, whether we're talking about gaining muscle, losing fat, neuroplasticity, enhanced, like you pick the physiological adaptation and it does not happen during the stimulus. It happens post-stimuli. So how important is recovery?
You know, people will always say this. You don't make progress in the gym. Your progress comes at home, which is the way of saying like nothing will change, whether we're talking about gaining muscle, losing fat, neuroplasticity, enhanced, like you pick the physiological adaptation and it does not happen during the stimulus. It happens post-stimuli. So how important is recovery?
Like it is the only opportunity you actually have to make a change.
Like it is the only opportunity you actually have to make a change.
Like it is the only opportunity you actually have to make a change.
It's a hard one to answer without saying similar things as I've said before, where it depends on what that person's limitation is. Could be sleep, could be nutrition. It could be down regulation. Those are the big ones that pop up. I'd say on aggregate, people just don't sleep as well as they think they do.
It's a hard one to answer without saying similar things as I've said before, where it depends on what that person's limitation is. Could be sleep, could be nutrition. It could be down regulation. Those are the big ones that pop up. I'd say on aggregate, people just don't sleep as well as they think they do.
It's a hard one to answer without saying similar things as I've said before, where it depends on what that person's limitation is. Could be sleep, could be nutrition. It could be down regulation. Those are the big ones that pop up. I'd say on aggregate, people just don't sleep as well as they think they do.
And I'd say the thing that will make the biggest impact in progress that is the most consistent problem is sleep. Generally, people even that think that they're sleeping okay are not. Or even I would say is okay sleep might be okay enough for regular people. But if you're trying to perform at your best, okay sleep is not enough.
And I'd say the thing that will make the biggest impact in progress that is the most consistent problem is sleep. Generally, people even that think that they're sleeping okay are not. Or even I would say is okay sleep might be okay enough for regular people. But if you're trying to perform at your best, okay sleep is not enough.
And I'd say the thing that will make the biggest impact in progress that is the most consistent problem is sleep. Generally, people even that think that they're sleeping okay are not. Or even I would say is okay sleep might be okay enough for regular people. But if you're trying to perform at your best, okay sleep is not enough.
And we see really big progress gains when people go from like okay sleep to really good sleep.
And we see really big progress gains when people go from like okay sleep to really good sleep.
And we see really big progress gains when people go from like okay sleep to really good sleep.
Yeah. I mean, there's kind of like a handful of big categories for sleep. You can bucket it this way. You can think about physiology. This could be strictly a physiology problem. If you're not making appropriate neurotransmitters If any number of things in your physiology are off, high or low, this is gonna directly affect sleep. So it could be a physiology issue.
Yeah. I mean, there's kind of like a handful of big categories for sleep. You can bucket it this way. You can think about physiology. This could be strictly a physiology problem. If you're not making appropriate neurotransmitters If any number of things in your physiology are off, high or low, this is gonna directly affect sleep. So it could be a physiology issue.
Yeah. I mean, there's kind of like a handful of big categories for sleep. You can bucket it this way. You can think about physiology. This could be strictly a physiology problem. If you're not making appropriate neurotransmitters If any number of things in your physiology are off, high or low, this is gonna directly affect sleep. So it could be a physiology issue.
It could be psychological, of course, as you're alluding to. It could be pathology. There are a ton of people that have clinical or subclinical sleep disorders that don't realize it. In fact, the numbers are crazy. It's something like 30 to 50 million people have clinical sleep disorders and don't know it. Over 80% of sleep disorders go undiagnosed.
It could be psychological, of course, as you're alluding to. It could be pathology. There are a ton of people that have clinical or subclinical sleep disorders that don't realize it. In fact, the numbers are crazy. It's something like 30 to 50 million people have clinical sleep disorders and don't know it. Over 80% of sleep disorders go undiagnosed.
It could be psychological, of course, as you're alluding to. It could be pathology. There are a ton of people that have clinical or subclinical sleep disorders that don't realize it. In fact, the numbers are crazy. It's something like 30 to 50 million people have clinical sleep disorders and don't know it. Over 80% of sleep disorders go undiagnosed.
It's really, really, really problematic and people don't realize it. And then within that, again, there are subclinical ones, which means you don't qualify for a technical disease. This is people who have said things like, I went to a sleep clinic, I got testing, and they said I have like mild sleep apnea.
It's really, really, really problematic and people don't realize it. And then within that, again, there are subclinical ones, which means you don't qualify for a technical disease. This is people who have said things like, I went to a sleep clinic, I got testing, and they said I have like mild sleep apnea.
It's really, really, really problematic and people don't realize it. And then within that, again, there are subclinical ones, which means you don't qualify for a technical disease. This is people who have said things like, I went to a sleep clinic, I got testing, and they said I have like mild sleep apnea.
Well, almost surely you have a whole host of fixable things going on, but you didn't meet a clinical diagnosis for that clinical disease, something you didn't get much help, right? So there's a ton of things we can do that are super easy to fix that will change people's lives that fall below that threshold. The fourth component of good sleep then is your environment.
Well, almost surely you have a whole host of fixable things going on, but you didn't meet a clinical diagnosis for that clinical disease, something you didn't get much help, right? So there's a ton of things we can do that are super easy to fix that will change people's lives that fall below that threshold. The fourth component of good sleep then is your environment.
Well, almost surely you have a whole host of fixable things going on, but you didn't meet a clinical diagnosis for that clinical disease, something you didn't get much help, right? So there's a ton of things we can do that are super easy to fix that will change people's lives that fall below that threshold. The fourth component of good sleep then is your environment.
So there's a whole host of things in your physical environment that people do not even realize. Everyone knows about temperature. Everyone knows about light and sound. It's all the other stuff going on in your environment that people are oblivious to that can be the single thing that is tormenting your sleep and you just have no idea. The smell.
So there's a whole host of things in your physical environment that people do not even realize. Everyone knows about temperature. Everyone knows about light and sound. It's all the other stuff going on in your environment that people are oblivious to that can be the single thing that is tormenting your sleep and you just have no idea. The smell.
So there's a whole host of things in your physical environment that people do not even realize. Everyone knows about temperature. Everyone knows about light and sound. It's all the other stuff going on in your environment that people are oblivious to that can be the single thing that is tormenting your sleep and you just have no idea. The smell.
the CO2 concentration in the area, the way that the air flows through your room, sounds coming from your partner. We have fixed an enormous amount of sleep disorders in people that had nothing wrong with their sleep. It is all because of a disorder in their partner and neither one of them had any idea about it.
the CO2 concentration in the area, the way that the air flows through your room, sounds coming from your partner. We have fixed an enormous amount of sleep disorders in people that had nothing wrong with their sleep. It is all because of a disorder in their partner and neither one of them had any idea about it.
the CO2 concentration in the area, the way that the air flows through your room, sounds coming from your partner. We have fixed an enormous amount of sleep disorders in people that had nothing wrong with their sleep. It is all because of a disorder in their partner and neither one of them had any idea about it.
So that's the type of stuff where we can go, we can fix A, B, and C. It's a passive fix oftentimes. And they're like, I just, I thought I had this stuff going on and you didn't have it. I thought my testosterone was low. I thought I was going, I just middle...
So that's the type of stuff where we can go, we can fix A, B, and C. It's a passive fix oftentimes. And they're like, I just, I thought I had this stuff going on and you didn't have it. I thought my testosterone was low. I thought I was going, I just middle...
So that's the type of stuff where we can go, we can fix A, B, and C. It's a passive fix oftentimes. And they're like, I just, I thought I had this stuff going on and you didn't have it. I thought my testosterone was low. I thought I was going, I just middle...
You just had shitty sleep. Yeah, you just had this thing going on in your physical environment and you can do all the down regulation and meditation you want. It's not going to fix the fact that this thing is in the air in your bedroom and it's tanking your sleep.
You just had shitty sleep. Yeah, you just had this thing going on in your physical environment and you can do all the down regulation and meditation you want. It's not going to fix the fact that this thing is in the air in your bedroom and it's tanking your sleep.
You just had shitty sleep. Yeah, you just had this thing going on in your physical environment and you can do all the down regulation and meditation you want. It's not going to fix the fact that this thing is in the air in your bedroom and it's tanking your sleep.
Yep, we do that. What the hell is that? So this is my company, Absolute Rest. Okay. We run full clinical grade sleep studies on people from their house. So you never have to go to a sleep hospital ever again. We can do the whole thing from your house and we can do 50 nights if you want.
Yep, we do that. What the hell is that? So this is my company, Absolute Rest. Okay. We run full clinical grade sleep studies on people from their house. So you never have to go to a sleep hospital ever again. We can do the whole thing from your house and we can do 50 nights if you want.
Yep, we do that. What the hell is that? So this is my company, Absolute Rest. Okay. We run full clinical grade sleep studies on people from their house. So you never have to go to a sleep hospital ever again. We can do the whole thing from your house and we can do 50 nights if you want.
Instead of having to worry about like, you slept weird that one night when you're in the hospital and someone was watching, like, of course. Of course you're gonna sleep terrible in a sleep clinic, right? So it's super easy for us to just go in and send all this equipment to your house and run these sleep tests on you.
Instead of having to worry about like, you slept weird that one night when you're in the hospital and someone was watching, like, of course. Of course you're gonna sleep terrible in a sleep clinic, right? So it's super easy for us to just go in and send all this equipment to your house and run these sleep tests on you.
Instead of having to worry about like, you slept weird that one night when you're in the hospital and someone was watching, like, of course. Of course you're gonna sleep terrible in a sleep clinic, right? So it's super easy for us to just go in and send all this equipment to your house and run these sleep tests on you.
So what happens with the full sleep test is we're running everything from, we're detecting if your mouth is moving at night to your chest, to your stomach, we're running EEG analysis, direct brainwave analysis of your brain. We're taking blood and saliva and doing a whole host of testing there. What you're referring to is in addition to all that, we're looking and we're scanning your environment.
So what happens with the full sleep test is we're running everything from, we're detecting if your mouth is moving at night to your chest, to your stomach, we're running EEG analysis, direct brainwave analysis of your brain. We're taking blood and saliva and doing a whole host of testing there. What you're referring to is in addition to all that, we're looking and we're scanning your environment.
So what happens with the full sleep test is we're running everything from, we're detecting if your mouth is moving at night to your chest, to your stomach, we're running EEG analysis, direct brainwave analysis of your brain. We're taking blood and saliva and doing a whole host of testing there. What you're referring to is in addition to all that, we're looking and we're scanning your environment.
So we have a full-time, real-time analysis of all the particulate matter that's in your air, any dander, allergens, pollen, CO2 concentrations, anything like that that's in the atmosphere of your room. And that's all synced up directly against your sleep data. So if we see things like, well, you're moving a lot at this particular time, we can look back and go, oh, interesting.
So we have a full-time, real-time analysis of all the particulate matter that's in your air, any dander, allergens, pollen, CO2 concentrations, anything like that that's in the atmosphere of your room. And that's all synced up directly against your sleep data. So if we see things like, well, you're moving a lot at this particular time, we can look back and go, oh, interesting.
So we have a full-time, real-time analysis of all the particulate matter that's in your air, any dander, allergens, pollen, CO2 concentrations, anything like that that's in the atmosphere of your room. And that's all synced up directly against your sleep data. So if we see things like, well, you're moving a lot at this particular time, we can look back and go, oh, interesting.
We saw this particular matter got really high in the air, and this had nothing to do with bruxism or anxiety or anything else. This was an actual environmental factor that was stuffing up your nose, causing you to breathe through your mouth a bunch, which then looked like it was causing sleep apnea or whatever the case is, and it was just an environmental factor.
We saw this particular matter got really high in the air, and this had nothing to do with bruxism or anxiety or anything else. This was an actual environmental factor that was stuffing up your nose, causing you to breathe through your mouth a bunch, which then looked like it was causing sleep apnea or whatever the case is, and it was just an environmental factor.
We saw this particular matter got really high in the air, and this had nothing to do with bruxism or anxiety or anything else. This was an actual environmental factor that was stuffing up your nose, causing you to breathe through your mouth a bunch, which then looked like it was causing sleep apnea or whatever the case is, and it was just an environmental factor.
No. The only way to do it is to go through our full absolute rest program.
No. The only way to do it is to go through our full absolute rest program.
No. The only way to do it is to go through our full absolute rest program.
Depending on your definition of expensive.
Depending on your definition of expensive.
Depending on your definition of expensive.
A little bit more than. I mean, you're going to go through this. You meet directly with scientists. It's not a sleep test, by the way. It is a full coaching program. So you go through all this testing, and then we run experiments. We test things. We change things. We see if it's actually working rather than just being like, you have sleep apnea. Go do these things and sort of good luck.
A little bit more than. I mean, you're going to go through this. You meet directly with scientists. It's not a sleep test, by the way. It is a full coaching program. So you go through all this testing, and then we run experiments. We test things. We change things. We see if it's actually working rather than just being like, you have sleep apnea. Go do these things and sort of good luck.
A little bit more than. I mean, you're going to go through this. You meet directly with scientists. It's not a sleep test, by the way. It is a full coaching program. So you go through all this testing, and then we run experiments. We test things. We change things. We see if it's actually working rather than just being like, you have sleep apnea. Go do these things and sort of good luck.
It's a full coaching program.
It's a full coaching program.
It's a full coaching program.
No, you can't. And the reason for that is a couple of things. Number one, it won't tell you anything because it's just telling you about your environment.
No, you can't. And the reason for that is a couple of things. Number one, it won't tell you anything because it's just telling you about your environment.
No, you can't. And the reason for that is a couple of things. Number one, it won't tell you anything because it's just telling you about your environment.
Whether that is actually making an impact on your sleep, you don't even actually know. Right, right, right, right. And then secondly, we actually did that for a little bit where we let people do that and it caused so many problems with people freaking out.
Whether that is actually making an impact on your sleep, you don't even actually know. Right, right, right, right. And then secondly, we actually did that for a little bit where we let people do that and it caused so many problems with people freaking out.
Whether that is actually making an impact on your sleep, you don't even actually know. Right, right, right, right. And then secondly, we actually did that for a little bit where we let people do that and it caused so many problems with people freaking out.
And we were like, all right, like,
And we were like, all right, like,
And we were like, all right, like,
Yeah. So they're running, because we do this with our like athletes and stuff when they go on the road. It's like you test the hotel rooms. We take care of all these things ahead of time. Our performer, high performing, like executives are traveling, stuff like that. And when people didn't have that with proper context, they were honestly overemphasizing the environment thing and freaking out.
Yeah. So they're running, because we do this with our like athletes and stuff when they go on the road. It's like you test the hotel rooms. We take care of all these things ahead of time. Our performer, high performing, like executives are traveling, stuff like that. And when people didn't have that with proper context, they were honestly overemphasizing the environment thing and freaking out.
Yeah. So they're running, because we do this with our like athletes and stuff when they go on the road. It's like you test the hotel rooms. We take care of all these things ahead of time. Our performer, high performing, like executives are traveling, stuff like that. And when people didn't have that with proper context, they were honestly overemphasizing the environment thing and freaking out.
And we're just like, all right, no more of this because it's not always true. There can be things going on.
And we're just like, all right, no more of this because it's not always true. There can be things going on.
And we're just like, all right, no more of this because it's not always true. There can be things going on.
Yeah. As you're seeing with all of our stuff, we generally just want to help people. And we don't want to upsell things and put people in this fear. And when we feel like something's doing that, then we're generally going to take it away.
Yeah. As you're seeing with all of our stuff, we generally just want to help people. And we don't want to upsell things and put people in this fear. And when we feel like something's doing that, then we're generally going to take it away.
Yeah. As you're seeing with all of our stuff, we generally just want to help people. And we don't want to upsell things and put people in this fear. And when we feel like something's doing that, then we're generally going to take it away.
The science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life. Welcome to Perform. For the final time this season, welcome back, friends. I'm Dr. Andy Galpin. I'm a professor of kinesiology in the Center for Sport Performance at Cal State Fullerton.
The science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life. Welcome to Perform. For the final time this season, welcome back, friends. I'm Dr. Andy Galpin. I'm a professor of kinesiology in the Center for Sport Performance at Cal State Fullerton.
So far in the first season of PERFORM, we've talked about everything from muscle to the immune system to liver and lungs, metabolism, genetics, sleep, blood work. And so I thought we have to end this thing on what I hate giving credit to, because I'm a muscle guy, but probably deserves it. And that's the brain.
So far in the first season of PERFORM, we've talked about everything from muscle to the immune system to liver and lungs, metabolism, genetics, sleep, blood work. And so I thought we have to end this thing on what I hate giving credit to, because I'm a muscle guy, but probably deserves it. And that's the brain.
There are obviously many factors that go into getting your brain to perform at its best. But today I want to focus specifically on what you can do from a nutrition perspective to reduce your risk of, as well as recover faster from brain injuries, concussions, and TBIs. I think it's worth reminding you though, that if it's good for preventing and returning faster from a brain injury,
There are obviously many factors that go into getting your brain to perform at its best. But today I want to focus specifically on what you can do from a nutrition perspective to reduce your risk of, as well as recover faster from brain injuries, concussions, and TBIs. I think it's worth reminding you though, that if it's good for preventing and returning faster from a brain injury,
It's probably safe to assume it's also good for brain performance as well as long-term health. Now I'm particularly passionate about this subject having dealt with it a lot personally. I've had a concussion or two myself and I've spent much of my career working with athletes prone or at high risk of developing similar injuries.
It's probably safe to assume it's also good for brain performance as well as long-term health. Now I'm particularly passionate about this subject having dealt with it a lot personally. I've had a concussion or two myself and I've spent much of my career working with athletes prone or at high risk of developing similar injuries.
This includes football players, wrestlers, fighters, boxers, and so forth. That said, those are not the only people at risk of a brain injury. In fact, those things are quite common and not only in athletes. So I'm really excited about this topic because brain injuries are really common. They can be completely debilitating.
This includes football players, wrestlers, fighters, boxers, and so forth. That said, those are not the only people at risk of a brain injury. In fact, those things are quite common and not only in athletes. So I'm really excited about this topic because brain injuries are really common. They can be completely debilitating.
And there's actually a lot of evidence that nutrition and supplementation can have a big effect. And again, both reducing your risk of getting one as well as coming back faster once they've happened. And so I really want to make sure everyone knows what their options are from a supplementation as well as whole food perspective.
And there's actually a lot of evidence that nutrition and supplementation can have a big effect. And again, both reducing your risk of getting one as well as coming back faster once they've happened. And so I really want to make sure everyone knows what their options are from a supplementation as well as whole food perspective.
on getting back and returning as fast as possible and minimizing the symptoms of brain injuries. Now, as I was saying, traumatic brain injuries, or what we'll refer to as TBIs, are really common. In fact, a lot of people in the field refer to them as the invisible disease because they don't come with a physical appearance.
on getting back and returning as fast as possible and minimizing the symptoms of brain injuries. Now, as I was saying, traumatic brain injuries, or what we'll refer to as TBIs, are really common. In fact, a lot of people in the field refer to them as the invisible disease because they don't come with a physical appearance.
There's no cut, there's no bruise or joint sticking the wrong way, bone poking out of the skin. And so these things can happen and you don't necessarily know that an injury occurred. Other problems include the fact that the symptoms that are associated with a TBI or concussion are really similar to those generally associated with aging.
There's no cut, there's no bruise or joint sticking the wrong way, bone poking out of the skin. And so these things can happen and you don't necessarily know that an injury occurred. Other problems include the fact that the symptoms that are associated with a TBI or concussion are really similar to those generally associated with aging.
So you talk about memory recall issues, mood, sleep, and other things that people don't necessarily know are because of an injury, and they may think it's just due to normal aging.
So you talk about memory recall issues, mood, sleep, and other things that people don't necessarily know are because of an injury, and they may think it's just due to normal aging.
In fact, we'll get into this a lot as the episode progresses, but a lot of the research on brain health with aging, Alzheimer's, dementia, and other related topics come from the same data sets that we work on for TBIs and concussions, and the inverse.
In fact, we'll get into this a lot as the episode progresses, but a lot of the research on brain health with aging, Alzheimer's, dementia, and other related topics come from the same data sets that we work on for TBIs and concussions, and the inverse.
So there's a huge overlap or event diagram between the types of research, the study design, the actual papers themselves, the interventions, the models, whether we're talking about data from humans or animals and rats and ferrets and things like that. There's a large overlap between these two bases. They're different, of course, and we'll try to highlight those.
So there's a huge overlap or event diagram between the types of research, the study design, the actual papers themselves, the interventions, the models, whether we're talking about data from humans or animals and rats and ferrets and things like that. There's a large overlap between these two bases. They're different, of course, and we'll try to highlight those.
But these are some of the reasons why I want to get in today's episode, even if you're not an athlete. Because many of you are still at risk of getting a TBI. In fact, the vast majority of concussions and TBIs do not come from sports. They come from accidental slips and falls and other problems like that.
But these are some of the reasons why I want to get in today's episode, even if you're not an athlete. Because many of you are still at risk of getting a TBI. In fact, the vast majority of concussions and TBIs do not come from sports. They come from accidental slips and falls and other problems like that.
In addition, they're still going to tell us a lot of indirect information about overall healthy brain aging. So the goal here will be to reduce our risk, of course, but if it does occur, to minimize the symptoms and return back to a healthy brain as fast as possible. Now, before we go too much further, I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsors because they make this show possible.
In addition, they're still going to tell us a lot of indirect information about overall healthy brain aging. So the goal here will be to reduce our risk, of course, but if it does occur, to minimize the symptoms and return back to a healthy brain as fast as possible. Now, before we go too much further, I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsors because they make this show possible.
Not only are they on this list because they offer great products and services, but because I actually personally love them and use them myself. Today's episode is brought to you by Element. Element is an electrolyte drink mix that has an ideal ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, but has no sugar.
Not only are they on this list because they offer great products and services, but because I actually personally love them and use them myself. Today's episode is brought to you by Element. Element is an electrolyte drink mix that has an ideal ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, but has no sugar.
Electrolytes are critical to proper hydration, which I've been harping on for years, but you can't do that by only drinking water. In fact, many of you will probably remember that I featured Element in my YouTube series on optimizing hydration all the way back in 2020, which is obviously long before this podcast even existed. So I've been a fan of Element for a long time.
Electrolytes are critical to proper hydration, which I've been harping on for years, but you can't do that by only drinking water. In fact, many of you will probably remember that I featured Element in my YouTube series on optimizing hydration all the way back in 2020, which is obviously long before this podcast even existed. So I've been a fan of Element for a long time.
In fact, astute listeners will also realize these hydration videos were the genesis of the Galpin hydration equation, named not by me, but by the legendary neuroscientist Dr. Andrew Huberman.
In fact, astute listeners will also realize these hydration videos were the genesis of the Galpin hydration equation, named not by me, but by the legendary neuroscientist Dr. Andrew Huberman.
I featured Element in these videos because their blend of 1,000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams potassium, and 60 milligrams magnesium really is different than any other electrolyte on the market and has great scientific support.
I featured Element in these videos because their blend of 1,000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams potassium, and 60 milligrams magnesium really is different than any other electrolyte on the market and has great scientific support.
I personally use the citrus and watermelon flavors a ton to pre-hydrate before heading out on a full day of training or a long hike or a hunt since I know I'll be losing a bunch of fluids and won't have many opportunities to take things with me. Element has also just released a new line of canned sparkling Element. which I am all about.
I personally use the citrus and watermelon flavors a ton to pre-hydrate before heading out on a full day of training or a long hike or a hunt since I know I'll be losing a bunch of fluids and won't have many opportunities to take things with me. Element has also just released a new line of canned sparkling Element. which I am all about.
If you'd like to try Element, you can go to drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free Element sample pack with the purchase of any Element drink mix. Again, that's drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free sample pack. Today's episode is also brought to you by Continuum. Continuum is a membership-only wellness club designed to help high performers reach their fitness and performance goals.
If you'd like to try Element, you can go to drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free Element sample pack with the purchase of any Element drink mix. Again, that's drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free sample pack. Today's episode is also brought to you by Continuum. Continuum is a membership-only wellness club designed to help high performers reach their fitness and performance goals.
Continuum just opened its flagship club in Manhattan, quickly making it one of the most sought-after memberships in the city. Its location in Greenwich Village is incredible. In fact, it's stunning. It's a 25,000 square foot space with state-of-the-art equipment, a beautiful design, and everything you could possibly want in this unique mix of a gym, wellness center, and social club.
Continuum just opened its flagship club in Manhattan, quickly making it one of the most sought-after memberships in the city. Its location in Greenwich Village is incredible. In fact, it's stunning. It's a 25,000 square foot space with state-of-the-art equipment, a beautiful design, and everything you could possibly want in this unique mix of a gym, wellness center, and social club.
Continuum members start with a thorough Olympic-grade assessment that results in a biometrically-driven, AI-assisted wellness program that updates in real time and incorporates everything from personal training and physical therapy to hyperbaric and IV therapies.
Continuum members start with a thorough Olympic-grade assessment that results in a biometrically-driven, AI-assisted wellness program that updates in real time and incorporates everything from personal training and physical therapy to hyperbaric and IV therapies.
By bringing together true fitness experts, best-in-class technology, and proven wellness services and amenities, Continuum delivers the most comprehensive solution to performance. I've been involved with Continuum, working as their head of performance science since their founding, and I've been incredibly impressed by what the team there has built.
By bringing together true fitness experts, best-in-class technology, and proven wellness services and amenities, Continuum delivers the most comprehensive solution to performance. I've been involved with Continuum, working as their head of performance science since their founding, and I've been incredibly impressed by what the team there has built.
If you're interested in joining Continuum, their team has agreed to give a select number of you, the listeners here, a fully waived onboarding, which includes VO2 max testing, DEXA scans, blood panels, sleep analysis, and more, all at their fabulous New York City flagship location. To learn more, visit continuum.club slash perform. Again, that's continuum with two u's, .club slash perform.
If you're interested in joining Continuum, their team has agreed to give a select number of you, the listeners here, a fully waived onboarding, which includes VO2 max testing, DEXA scans, blood panels, sleep analysis, and more, all at their fabulous New York City flagship location. To learn more, visit continuum.club slash perform. Again, that's continuum with two u's, .club slash perform.
Now, before we get started on the details, I want to highlight a couple of things. First, remember, I have a PhD. I am a scientist. I've published in this area. In fact, I have recently submitted a literature review as a co-author, and we'll talk about that later. But I'm not a medical doctor.
Now, before we get started on the details, I want to highlight a couple of things. First, remember, I have a PhD. I am a scientist. I've published in this area. In fact, I have recently submitted a literature review as a co-author, and we'll talk about that later. But I'm not a medical doctor.
If you think you have any risk of or potentially have had or are suffering consequences from any type of brain-related injury, Please see a medical professional in this area. I want to focus this episode on nutrition and supplementation related to brain injury. But I also don't want anyone to think that I'm suggesting this is all you should do for your brain injury.
If you think you have any risk of or potentially have had or are suffering consequences from any type of brain-related injury, Please see a medical professional in this area. I want to focus this episode on nutrition and supplementation related to brain injury. But I also don't want anyone to think that I'm suggesting this is all you should do for your brain injury.
I also don't want anyone to think that I'm suggesting this is enough to stop your chances of ever having a brain injury. So that being said, the landscape of the research and many of the scientists in this area are on the same page in the fact that there is emerging evidence that several micronutrients and what we'll call biological compounds
I also don't want anyone to think that I'm suggesting this is enough to stop your chances of ever having a brain injury. So that being said, the landscape of the research and many of the scientists in this area are on the same page in the fact that there is emerging evidence that several micronutrients and what we'll call biological compounds
really do have the ability to reduce the risk, I hesitate to say prevent, but can help prevent and treat brain injuries, concussions, TBIs and related events. Now, over the course of today's show, I'm going to walk you through a bunch of different micronutrient and nutraceutical options you have. We'll cover the evidence, how much to take, the protocols and so on and so forth.
really do have the ability to reduce the risk, I hesitate to say prevent, but can help prevent and treat brain injuries, concussions, TBIs and related events. Now, over the course of today's show, I'm going to walk you through a bunch of different micronutrient and nutraceutical options you have. We'll cover the evidence, how much to take, the protocols and so on and so forth.
But before we do that, you have to actually understand a little bit of the terminology. Because depending on what type of brain injury you have, you may want to take a different route with your nutrition. So getting going with that point, what is a brain injury? You've heard me now say concussion, TBI, brain health, and a bunch of different terms like that. What is actually the difference?
But before we do that, you have to actually understand a little bit of the terminology. Because depending on what type of brain injury you have, you may want to take a different route with your nutrition. So getting going with that point, what is a brain injury? You've heard me now say concussion, TBI, brain health, and a bunch of different terms like that. What is actually the difference?
In fact, do you even know the difference between a TBI and a concussion? It's been my experience that most people don't. And so we'll maybe just start right there. So a brain injury can mean a lot of different things. Honest answer here, there's not that much research in humans and randomized control trials on what to do to prevent or reduce an injury.
In fact, do you even know the difference between a TBI and a concussion? It's been my experience that most people don't. And so we'll maybe just start right there. So a brain injury can mean a lot of different things. Honest answer here, there's not that much research in humans and randomized control trials on what to do to prevent or reduce an injury.
In fact, if you think about research design, that's really hard to do. The only way to execute these kinds of studies in humans is to set up an enrollment center, say at a hospital, probably around an area that has a lot of kids playing in sports, wait for people to show up with an injury, ask them if you can enroll them in a study, and go on from that.
In fact, if you think about research design, that's really hard to do. The only way to execute these kinds of studies in humans is to set up an enrollment center, say at a hospital, probably around an area that has a lot of kids playing in sports, wait for people to show up with an injury, ask them if you can enroll them in a study, and go on from that.
We can't go out and give humans head injuries and concussions. And so it's really challenging. It's hard to get an adequate sample size. And you're also relying upon those people coming into the study having the same type of brain injury. And we know that that does not happen. And so brain injuries themselves, there's a lot to learn and there's lots of different types.
We can't go out and give humans head injuries and concussions. And so it's really challenging. It's hard to get an adequate sample size. And you're also relying upon those people coming into the study having the same type of brain injury. And we know that that does not happen. And so brain injuries themselves, there's a lot to learn and there's lots of different types.
It would be foolish to think that we know how to prevent all of them or recover from all of them. Some types of injuries we know more about, other types we know way less. And so there's not one type, which means there's not one solution. And this is going to explain why almost always you will see mixed results. Easy example here.
It would be foolish to think that we know how to prevent all of them or recover from all of them. Some types of injuries we know more about, other types we know way less. And so there's not one type, which means there's not one solution. And this is going to explain why almost always you will see mixed results. Easy example here.
We're gonna talk about one of the major problems that are associated with brain injuries is sleep. So supplements that help with sleep, therefore, are going to be helpful for folks who are experiencing sleep-related problems with a brain injury. However, if you have a brain injury and are not suffering symptoms of sleep loss, then a sleep aid may or may not actually work.
We're gonna talk about one of the major problems that are associated with brain injuries is sleep. So supplements that help with sleep, therefore, are going to be helpful for folks who are experiencing sleep-related problems with a brain injury. However, if you have a brain injury and are not suffering symptoms of sleep loss, then a sleep aid may or may not actually work.
If both those individuals, let's say we had two people, one having issues with sleep, one not, both enrolled in the same study, you're going to see the magnitude of effect of the supplement or the nutritional factor gets a little bit washed out. So those are common themes you will see. I won't bring this up again, because honestly, I could do that with just about every single study.
If both those individuals, let's say we had two people, one having issues with sleep, one not, both enrolled in the same study, you're going to see the magnitude of effect of the supplement or the nutritional factor gets a little bit washed out. So those are common themes you will see. I won't bring this up again, because honestly, I could do that with just about every single study.
But it's something for you to really consider in the back of your mind. All right. Now, the goal then is to present to you information that I think has a strength of evidence, I'll explain to you what my criteria for a strong evidence is a little bit later. And things that I think kind of justify what we'll call low risk and high potential reward.
But it's something for you to really consider in the back of your mind. All right. Now, the goal then is to present to you information that I think has a strength of evidence, I'll explain to you what my criteria for a strong evidence is a little bit later. And things that I think kind of justify what we'll call low risk and high potential reward.
And we'll typically break those down into things you can do before the injury. during or immediately after the injury, as well as long-term post-recovery. So you can think about that as pre, peri, or post, or simply preventative, and then treatments post-injury. So in terms of terminology, I'm gonna try to be consistent with three basic phrases.
And we'll typically break those down into things you can do before the injury. during or immediately after the injury, as well as long-term post-recovery. So you can think about that as pre, peri, or post, or simply preventative, and then treatments post-injury. So in terms of terminology, I'm gonna try to be consistent with three basic phrases.
So a brain injury is often broken up into three categories based on the severity. There's mild, which is the lowest, moderate, and severe. Now fortunately, mild is by far the most common. In fact, some papers indicate that over 90 plus percent of brain injuries are qualified as mild. What that means typically is there is a 30 minute or less change in state of consciousness.
So a brain injury is often broken up into three categories based on the severity. There's mild, which is the lowest, moderate, and severe. Now fortunately, mild is by far the most common. In fact, some papers indicate that over 90 plus percent of brain injuries are qualified as mild. What that means typically is there is a 30 minute or less change in state of consciousness.
So if you were unconscious for a couple of minutes, you probably had a mild traumatic brain injury. This is often associated with things like confusion or post-traumatic impact amnesia. So you forgot what happened immediately afterwards or you had a little bit of a time travel, as I like to call it.
So if you were unconscious for a couple of minutes, you probably had a mild traumatic brain injury. This is often associated with things like confusion or post-traumatic impact amnesia. So you forgot what happened immediately afterwards or you had a little bit of a time travel, as I like to call it.
And this can occur for a couple of hours or even up to one day is the general line that we cross there. The overwhelming majority of recreational and sport-related concussions fall into this category. Therefore, almost always, though not always, but almost always when you hear the word concussion, you can generally translate that into a mild TBI.
And this can occur for a couple of hours or even up to one day is the general line that we cross there. The overwhelming majority of recreational and sport-related concussions fall into this category. Therefore, almost always, though not always, but almost always when you hear the word concussion, you can generally translate that into a mild TBI.
Now, not all TBIs are concussions, but all concussions are TBIs. Okay, so one more time in case I lost you there. Concussion is effectively a mild traumatic brain injury based on those categories. If you had worse effects, so you were unconscious for longer or your amnesia will lasted longer, then you may be actually be considered to be in a moderate category.
Now, not all TBIs are concussions, but all concussions are TBIs. Okay, so one more time in case I lost you there. Concussion is effectively a mild traumatic brain injury based on those categories. If you had worse effects, so you were unconscious for longer or your amnesia will lasted longer, then you may be actually be considered to be in a moderate category.
So moderate technically is defined as a loss of consciousness or amnesia for somewhere between 30 minutes to up to 24 hours. Symptoms associated with this are more severe. It is headaches, confusion, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, slurred speech, drowsiness, difficulty concentrating, so on and so forth.
So moderate technically is defined as a loss of consciousness or amnesia for somewhere between 30 minutes to up to 24 hours. Symptoms associated with this are more severe. It is headaches, confusion, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, slurred speech, drowsiness, difficulty concentrating, so on and so forth.
And so another kind of back of the envelope way to differentiate between mild and moderate is mild, again, not always, but rough guidelines here. Mild is fairly acute. So in and immediately after the injury, you had symptoms, but then you're usually back to normal. Moderate often comes with downstream problems, not the injury themselves.
And so another kind of back of the envelope way to differentiate between mild and moderate is mild, again, not always, but rough guidelines here. Mild is fairly acute. So in and immediately after the injury, you had symptoms, but then you're usually back to normal. Moderate often comes with downstream problems, not the injury themselves.
So this is when you have behavioral changes because of the TBI. You've got, again, difficulty with memory that lasts a long time. That's, again, back of the envelope kind of distinction. If it is worse than that, we call it severe. That is technically a loss of consciousness or amnesia for somewhere between 24 hours to up to or more than seven days.
So this is when you have behavioral changes because of the TBI. You've got, again, difficulty with memory that lasts a long time. That's, again, back of the envelope kind of distinction. If it is worse than that, we call it severe. That is technically a loss of consciousness or amnesia for somewhere between 24 hours to up to or more than seven days.
And moderate and severe also have similar dementia-like symptoms. Now, I mentioned this earlier, but think about this. Severe TBIs oftentimes come with memory and attention problems, decision-making problems, learning impairments, mood, big sleep disturbances. And so you can imagine somebody who's in their 50s, 60s, or 70s who start experiencing things like that.
And moderate and severe also have similar dementia-like symptoms. Now, I mentioned this earlier, but think about this. Severe TBIs oftentimes come with memory and attention problems, decision-making problems, learning impairments, mood, big sleep disturbances. And so you can imagine somebody who's in their 50s, 60s, or 70s who start experiencing things like that.
They may personally just think, oh, this is, I'm getting old. Family members may think, oh, grandma's got, you know, starting to show dementia signs. Could be possible. Could also be possible that grandma's simply suffering from a severe TBI. And so this is what I was referring to earlier when I said there is actually a big crossover here. It's a bit of a gray area.
They may personally just think, oh, this is, I'm getting old. Family members may think, oh, grandma's got, you know, starting to show dementia signs. Could be possible. Could also be possible that grandma's simply suffering from a severe TBI. And so this is what I was referring to earlier when I said there is actually a big crossover here. It's a bit of a gray area.
They can actually be the same thing. They can clearly be different as well, but there is a large crossover between them. So hopefully that helps you understand a little bit about what the difference between a concussion and a TBI is, what a mild, moderate, and severe traumatic pain injury are. And I started sneaking in some of the physiology about at least what's the symptoms?
They can actually be the same thing. They can clearly be different as well, but there is a large crossover between them. So hopefully that helps you understand a little bit about what the difference between a concussion and a TBI is, what a mild, moderate, and severe traumatic pain injury are. And I started sneaking in some of the physiology about at least what's the symptoms?
What are the behavioral and actual consequences? That is important to understand because now that'll tell us what we do in terms of a treatment or prevention strategy. In order to finally connect that dot though, we got to walk through just a touch. And I promise this will be just a touch of the physiology or pathophysiology of each one of these categories.
What are the behavioral and actual consequences? That is important to understand because now that'll tell us what we do in terms of a treatment or prevention strategy. In order to finally connect that dot though, we got to walk through just a touch. And I promise this will be just a touch of the physiology or pathophysiology of each one of these categories.
So we understand what we're trying to do with the nutrition or the micronutrient why they solve those problems, and then ultimately how that translates into reduction or elimination of these symptoms. So what's actually happening in the brain when we experience any of these three levels of a brain injury?
So we understand what we're trying to do with the nutrition or the micronutrient why they solve those problems, and then ultimately how that translates into reduction or elimination of these symptoms. So what's actually happening in the brain when we experience any of these three levels of a brain injury?
There's a couple of resources I want to give you if you want to learn more about this right now. I based a lot of this episode heavily off of these papers, so I want to give them their due credit. They will of course be linked and PDFs will be available in the show notes. You can find those at performpodcast.com.
There's a couple of resources I want to give you if you want to learn more about this right now. I based a lot of this episode heavily off of these papers, so I want to give them their due credit. They will of course be linked and PDFs will be available in the show notes. You can find those at performpodcast.com.
But for those of you who want to write it down right now, a paper that I found particularly helpful came out just last year in 2023, and that is titled, Optimization of Nutrition After Brain Injury, Mechanistic and Therapeutic Considerations.
But for those of you who want to write it down right now, a paper that I found particularly helpful came out just last year in 2023, and that is titled, Optimization of Nutrition After Brain Injury, Mechanistic and Therapeutic Considerations.
In addition to that, my friend and colleague, Dan Garner, has a product available for purchase on Amazon called the Brain Synergy Protocol, and I will talk about that a little bit later. And then finally, I honestly took the vast majority of this episode off of a paper that I co-authored, and that's, depending on when you're listening to this, either in review or potentially published by now.
In addition to that, my friend and colleague, Dan Garner, has a product available for purchase on Amazon called the Brain Synergy Protocol, and I will talk about that a little bit later. And then finally, I honestly took the vast majority of this episode off of a paper that I co-authored, and that's, depending on when you're listening to this, either in review or potentially published by now.
called Mitigating Traumatic Brain Injury, A Narrative Review of Supplementation and Dietary Protocols. This was led by Tommy Wood, the fantastic neuroscientist at the University of Washington, and was first authored by Federica Conti, another tremendous neuroscientist in her own right. So they did the bulk of the work here.
called Mitigating Traumatic Brain Injury, A Narrative Review of Supplementation and Dietary Protocols. This was led by Tommy Wood, the fantastic neuroscientist at the University of Washington, and was first authored by Federica Conti, another tremendous neuroscientist in her own right. So they did the bulk of the work here.
We contribute on this paper together, and I thought it was honestly so perfect. for a show that I thought I'm just gonna take this entire thing and make a whole episode out of it. But nonetheless, let's get into the paper right now. So what's actually happening in your brain when you experience an injury?
We contribute on this paper together, and I thought it was honestly so perfect. for a show that I thought I'm just gonna take this entire thing and make a whole episode out of it. But nonetheless, let's get into the paper right now. So what's actually happening in your brain when you experience an injury?
Typically, we've been told that when you have some sort of injury, you have to go through this whiplash experience. So you have to say a sudden stop, your brain inside your skull continues to travel and then smashes up against your skull, and then therefore has a bruise on the brain. And while that certainly can happen, that's actually probably pretty unlikely.
Typically, we've been told that when you have some sort of injury, you have to go through this whiplash experience. So you have to say a sudden stop, your brain inside your skull continues to travel and then smashes up against your skull, and then therefore has a bruise on the brain. And while that certainly can happen, that's actually probably pretty unlikely.
Generally, what's going to happen if that occurred is you would see the injury site being on the outside. So you can imagine, let's just say the front of your brain smashes into the front of your skull. You would expect the injury to be right on the front, on the outside part of your brain. The reality of it is that's not where most... Concussions and TBIs occur.
Generally, what's going to happen if that occurred is you would see the injury site being on the outside. So you can imagine, let's just say the front of your brain smashes into the front of your skull. You would expect the injury to be right on the front, on the outside part of your brain. The reality of it is that's not where most... Concussions and TBIs occur.
It generally happens more towards the middle of the brain. Remember, the outside of the brain is where your gray matter is. That's mostly where your neurons are. On the inside is the white matter that's made of mostly fat, and it helps you conduct messages more quickly throughout the brain. See, what typically happens in brain injuries is you get more of what I call the accordion effect.
It generally happens more towards the middle of the brain. Remember, the outside of the brain is where your gray matter is. That's mostly where your neurons are. On the inside is the white matter that's made of mostly fat, and it helps you conduct messages more quickly throughout the brain. See, what typically happens in brain injuries is you get more of what I call the accordion effect.
And so you have so much fluid in your brain that if you were to slosh it around a little bit, there's not much room to slosh. And so it protects your brain from hitting the skull. But what can happen though is an intense pressure inside the tissue because it squeezes together and then gets expanded back out.
And so you have so much fluid in your brain that if you were to slosh it around a little bit, there's not much room to slosh. And so it protects your brain from hitting the skull. But what can happen though is an intense pressure inside the tissue because it squeezes together and then gets expanded back out.
Picture the accordion here, me taking my two hands, putting them closer together, smashing it, pulling it back apart. And so you have this kind of egg-looking oval that is supposed to be your brain, and it gets smashed down into a vertical piece of paper, and then extended way back out and stretched, and so on and so forth.
Picture the accordion here, me taking my two hands, putting them closer together, smashing it, pulling it back apart. And so you have this kind of egg-looking oval that is supposed to be your brain, and it gets smashed down into a vertical piece of paper, and then extended way back out and stretched, and so on and so forth.
So it's not the actual connection or contact to the skull that is always the issue. Sometimes it's that stretching and pulling and that pressure wave that causes the damage on the interior or various portions of the brain. And so the injuries are highly varied in the brain. It can be everything from a capillary or blood flow supply that is damaged or torn. The axon themselves can be torn.
So it's not the actual connection or contact to the skull that is always the issue. Sometimes it's that stretching and pulling and that pressure wave that causes the damage on the interior or various portions of the brain. And so the injuries are highly varied in the brain. It can be everything from a capillary or blood flow supply that is damaged or torn. The axon themselves can be torn.
This then causes a host of issues that we'll get into step by step. But it's everything from temperature problems, energy problems, metabolism problems, inflammation, and physical structural damage. So many different options that can occur, but that's basically what happens for most, but not all. This is obviously a complicated area. I don't mean to oversimplify it.
This then causes a host of issues that we'll get into step by step. But it's everything from temperature problems, energy problems, metabolism problems, inflammation, and physical structural damage. So many different options that can occur, but that's basically what happens for most, but not all. This is obviously a complicated area. I don't mean to oversimplify it.
depending on if you had a single event, say a car crash or a single slip and fall, or numerous sub-concussive events. Think of blast injuries in folks in the military, small impacts with combat athletes or other people in professions that kind of bang their head a little bit, don't necessarily get huge symptoms, but they have a lot of these stack over time. All of it results in different problems.
depending on if you had a single event, say a car crash or a single slip and fall, or numerous sub-concussive events. Think of blast injuries in folks in the military, small impacts with combat athletes or other people in professions that kind of bang their head a little bit, don't necessarily get huge symptoms, but they have a lot of these stack over time. All of it results in different problems.
I'm just trying to highlight a small example of what it can look like as a quick overview. That being said, there are some generalities and commonalities between different forms of TBIs, and I'll just cover them broadly right now. The top of our list here is what's called comprised excitotoxicity.
I'm just trying to highlight a small example of what it can look like as a quick overview. That being said, there are some generalities and commonalities between different forms of TBIs, and I'll just cover them broadly right now. The top of our list here is what's called comprised excitotoxicity.
I'll explain what that means later, but this is arguably one of the bigger problems you will experience. There are ionic disturbances, so your positive and negative charges get all messed up. There are blood flow to the brain that's called cerebral blood flow, edemas and swellings, oxidative stress, inflammation.
I'll explain what that means later, but this is arguably one of the bigger problems you will experience. There are ionic disturbances, so your positive and negative charges get all messed up. There are blood flow to the brain that's called cerebral blood flow, edemas and swellings, oxidative stress, inflammation.
And then, as I mentioned before, even damage or even death in the cells that are directly in the brain or related to the brain. That can actually be going on acutely for weeks or even months to decades throughout life. So I can't go over all of this. It would take me the entire show, if not many.
And then, as I mentioned before, even damage or even death in the cells that are directly in the brain or related to the brain. That can actually be going on acutely for weeks or even months to decades throughout life. So I can't go over all of this. It would take me the entire show, if not many.
But I do want to cover a couple of very specific examples so you can start to grasp what this could look like. The first one is just if you've had capillaries burst. So remember, you have capillaries that surround all tissue in your body and that's where all of your blood exchanges happen. So you have this network and this bed of capillaries that surround your brain.
But I do want to cover a couple of very specific examples so you can start to grasp what this could look like. The first one is just if you've had capillaries burst. So remember, you have capillaries that surround all tissue in your body and that's where all of your blood exchanges happen. So you have this network and this bed of capillaries that surround your brain.
When those burst, you can't get nutrients and fuel in, and you can't get waste products out. And so the most fundamental problem here is you don't get oxygen to the brain. So we lose cerebral blood flow, we lose energy production because we're not getting fuel in the brain because we've physically torn capillaries.
When those burst, you can't get nutrients and fuel in, and you can't get waste products out. And so the most fundamental problem here is you don't get oxygen to the brain. So we lose cerebral blood flow, we lose energy production because we're not getting fuel in the brain because we've physically torn capillaries.
If this was on your arm like it is on mine right now, you might have a purple and black arm. Thank you, Cam Haines. But in your brain, you wouldn't see that. This goes right back to the invisible disease problem from earlier. More detailed example would be the following, though. Oftentimes, we'll break up TBIs into what we call the initial response and then the delayed or phase two response.
If this was on your arm like it is on mine right now, you might have a purple and black arm. Thank you, Cam Haines. But in your brain, you wouldn't see that. This goes right back to the invisible disease problem from earlier. More detailed example would be the following, though. Oftentimes, we'll break up TBIs into what we call the initial response and then the delayed or phase two response.
So let's say you had some sort of direct hit. Again, pick your example. It might look something like this. Your initial response would be an over-activation of the neurons. That's right. The nerves that are associated with the injury area become overly activated. Now this initial response is caused in large part by what's called over-activation of neighboring neurons.
So let's say you had some sort of direct hit. Again, pick your example. It might look something like this. Your initial response would be an over-activation of the neurons. That's right. The nerves that are associated with the injury area become overly activated. Now this initial response is caused in large part by what's called over-activation of neighboring neurons.
So you remember all the nerves connected one to one to one, they're not actually physically connected. There's a small space in between them. And they communicate by releasing what's called neurotransmitters. So what happens in this area is you have a damage to one, it over-communicates to the next one, and you get way too much neuron activity.
So you remember all the nerves connected one to one to one, they're not actually physically connected. There's a small space in between them. And they communicate by releasing what's called neurotransmitters. So what happens in this area is you have a damage to one, it over-communicates to the next one, and you get way too much neuron activity.
That's called over-excitation, okay, or excitotoxicity, because you're excited so much that it comes to the level of toxicity. And excited being the neurons being too active. Now, this happens in large part because of a molecule called glutamate. You'll see this all over the TBI literature, supplementation, marketing. Very common to be talked about because it is very real and very important.
That's called over-excitation, okay, or excitotoxicity, because you're excited so much that it comes to the level of toxicity. And excited being the neurons being too active. Now, this happens in large part because of a molecule called glutamate. You'll see this all over the TBI literature, supplementation, marketing. Very common to be talked about because it is very real and very important.
It's the main neurotransmitter that's responsible for this excitatory activity. Now this gets released. In response to that, we have a whole downstream cascade of problems. And this starts off as an initial response, and then I'll show you how this turns into that delayed phase response later. So we have this overexcitation.
It's the main neurotransmitter that's responsible for this excitatory activity. Now this gets released. In response to that, we have a whole downstream cascade of problems. And this starts off as an initial response, and then I'll show you how this turns into that delayed phase response later. So we have this overexcitation.
Now, if you go back to our episode on muscle, you'll learn more about how nerves and cells contract, why sodium and calcium and potassium and chloride are responsible for action potentials and so on and so forth. For now, sodium and calcium very specifically become overly activated. In fact, you literally oftentimes have damage to the plasma membrane.
Now, if you go back to our episode on muscle, you'll learn more about how nerves and cells contract, why sodium and calcium and potassium and chloride are responsible for action potentials and so on and so forth. For now, sodium and calcium very specifically become overly activated. In fact, you literally oftentimes have damage to the plasma membrane.
So the little thing that surrounds your cells gets damaged, it gets broken. And so because of that, the things that are supposed to be in the cell and things that are not supposed to come in the cell start leaking everywhere. So sodium and calcium start coming in and out of the cell in inappropriate manners.
So the little thing that surrounds your cells gets damaged, it gets broken. And so because of that, the things that are supposed to be in the cell and things that are not supposed to come in the cell start leaking everywhere. So sodium and calcium start coming in and out of the cell in inappropriate manners.
Now this causes things that are eventually going to be cell death and degradation because of production of what's called ROS. ROS is R-O-S, a reactive oxygen species. So remember, oxygen is very reactive. It is good and bad. You have to have oxygen for fuel, allow you to create fuel rather. It's a byproduct needed to make aerobic metabolism.
Now this causes things that are eventually going to be cell death and degradation because of production of what's called ROS. ROS is R-O-S, a reactive oxygen species. So remember, oxygen is very reactive. It is good and bad. You have to have oxygen for fuel, allow you to create fuel rather. It's a byproduct needed to make aerobic metabolism.
At the same time, excessive amounts of it are going to be damaging. This is how we break down tissue. This is how we create and clean out dead and debride cells. And so if we're generating way too much of this reactive oxygen species, this is almost synonymous every time with oxidative stress. These are kind of similar terms, not the exact same thing, but pretty close.
At the same time, excessive amounts of it are going to be damaging. This is how we break down tissue. This is how we create and clean out dead and debride cells. And so if we're generating way too much of this reactive oxygen species, this is almost synonymous every time with oxidative stress. These are kind of similar terms, not the exact same thing, but pretty close.
This also activates several enzymes that damage the cell structure. These are everything from what we'll call proteases, so an anase is an enzyme that breaks down a protein, to lipases, these are enzymes that break down fats, nitric oxides, synthases, and endonucleuses, and other things like that. A whole cask of enzymes that start breaking the thing down.
This also activates several enzymes that damage the cell structure. These are everything from what we'll call proteases, so an anase is an enzyme that breaks down a protein, to lipases, these are enzymes that break down fats, nitric oxides, synthases, and endonucleuses, and other things like that. A whole cask of enzymes that start breaking the thing down.
You don't know exactly what's happening here, but the cell thinks that there's problems, because there are, and so it just starts activating cell death. So we're having issues with that. In addition to that, that calcium specificity becomes a problem because it alone harms mitochondrial health and efficiency. And so the cells that do stay alive start getting really damaged mitochondria.
You don't know exactly what's happening here, but the cell thinks that there's problems, because there are, and so it just starts activating cell death. So we're having issues with that. In addition to that, that calcium specificity becomes a problem because it alone harms mitochondrial health and efficiency. And so the cells that do stay alive start getting really damaged mitochondria.
This is, again, because of a membrane damage issue that allows too much permeability of things in and out. And that Of course, eliminates or drastically reduces mitochondria's ability to work, which means your ability to make ATP. Remember, ATP is the cellular currency. It's the only way any living cell can create energy. And so mitochondria is not the only way we can make ATP. Hold on to that.
This is, again, because of a membrane damage issue that allows too much permeability of things in and out. And that Of course, eliminates or drastically reduces mitochondria's ability to work, which means your ability to make ATP. Remember, ATP is the cellular currency. It's the only way any living cell can create energy. And so mitochondria is not the only way we can make ATP. Hold on to that.
We're going to come back to that. But it is a primary way, and it is the exclusive way in which we generate aerobic metabolism. So the way that we create fuel... with oxygen has to go for mitochondria. So damaged or ineffective mitochondria is going to directly lead to reduced ATP production. Reduced ATP production simply means we have way more cellular energy in our brain.
We're going to come back to that. But it is a primary way, and it is the exclusive way in which we generate aerobic metabolism. So the way that we create fuel... with oxygen has to go for mitochondria. So damaged or ineffective mitochondria is going to directly lead to reduced ATP production. Reduced ATP production simply means we have way more cellular energy in our brain.
This idea of brain fog or fatigue or can't remember things, recall, executive decision, if you don't have energy, your brain can't think. That's quite literally what's happening. This is why some of the supplements and micronutrients we're going to talk about later have such positive effect, is they help you restore what's called that energy balance.
This idea of brain fog or fatigue or can't remember things, recall, executive decision, if you don't have energy, your brain can't think. That's quite literally what's happening. This is why some of the supplements and micronutrients we're going to talk about later have such positive effect, is they help you restore what's called that energy balance.
The damage occurred, you weren't able to get transportation of oxygen and things in, this allowed permeability of calcium, this allowed too much excitation, which means we're burning too much energy. At the same time, we don't create enough energy, and so we end up being in this really catabolic or negative energy state.
The damage occurred, you weren't able to get transportation of oxygen and things in, this allowed permeability of calcium, this allowed too much excitation, which means we're burning too much energy. At the same time, we don't create enough energy, and so we end up being in this really catabolic or negative energy state.
And now we can't think well, we're dealing with signs and symptoms, and overall, more importantly, our brain is actually physically unhealthy. And so because your brain is measuring energy production at all times, it knows this imbalance is occurring, it's going to try to alleviate it. And the best way to do that is to ramp up energy production.
And now we can't think well, we're dealing with signs and symptoms, and overall, more importantly, our brain is actually physically unhealthy. And so because your brain is measuring energy production at all times, it knows this imbalance is occurring, it's going to try to alleviate it. And the best way to do that is to ramp up energy production.
But since it can't do it aerobically, it has to turn to anaerobic methods. And specifically what we're talking about here is anaerobic glycolysis. One more time, go back to our previous episode, I believe it was episode two on muscle, and we talk about the physiology and bioenergetics of how we use carbohydrates for fuel. It's the same.
But since it can't do it aerobically, it has to turn to anaerobic methods. And specifically what we're talking about here is anaerobic glycolysis. One more time, go back to our previous episode, I believe it was episode two on muscle, and we talk about the physiology and bioenergetics of how we use carbohydrates for fuel. It's the same.
We're in the brain here, we're not in muscle, but anaerobic glycolysis is still anaerobic glycolysis. It's still the breakdown of carbohydrates for the production of ATP. So in this particular case, since the ability to store glucose in the brain is quite limited, and the amount that we can get into the brain through the blood-brain barrier is also somewhat limited,
We're in the brain here, we're not in muscle, but anaerobic glycolysis is still anaerobic glycolysis. It's still the breakdown of carbohydrates for the production of ATP. So in this particular case, since the ability to store glucose in the brain is quite limited, and the amount that we can get into the brain through the blood-brain barrier is also somewhat limited,
If we're only or mostly relying upon anaerobic glycolysis, you can quickly see we're not going to be able to handle all the supply because not only does the brain take an enormous amount of energy, it's in fact, depending on the situation, our most energy costly organ in the body, and now it's injured and it has more energy demands to recover and it has less energy production,
If we're only or mostly relying upon anaerobic glycolysis, you can quickly see we're not going to be able to handle all the supply because not only does the brain take an enormous amount of energy, it's in fact, depending on the situation, our most energy costly organ in the body, and now it's injured and it has more energy demands to recover and it has less energy production,
we're going to be really running into problems with our energy deficit. So to summarize all that, effectively what's happening here is you've got this disrupted cell homeostasis. This leads to all kinds of problems like cell death or apoptosis, DNA fragmentation, necrosis, cytoskeletal degradation, and a whole host of other things that are short and long-term. And that's just the phase one part.
we're going to be really running into problems with our energy deficit. So to summarize all that, effectively what's happening here is you've got this disrupted cell homeostasis. This leads to all kinds of problems like cell death or apoptosis, DNA fragmentation, necrosis, cytoskeletal degradation, and a whole host of other things that are short and long-term. And that's just the phase one part.
That's the initial response. From there, and once we've dealt with that, we now have to handle step two or the delayed or second phase, which is generally associated with neuroinflammation and prolonged oxidative stress. So what we're talking about here is this pervasive inflammatory cascade that is in combination with our metabolic changes specifically to the blood-brain barrier.
That's the initial response. From there, and once we've dealt with that, we now have to handle step two or the delayed or second phase, which is generally associated with neuroinflammation and prolonged oxidative stress. So what we're talking about here is this pervasive inflammatory cascade that is in combination with our metabolic changes specifically to the blood-brain barrier.
Now remember, that's the thing that keeps things out of your brain and in your body and kind of keeps the separation there. If we've got a brain injury, we potentially have damage to that membrane as well. And so we've got excessive inflammation happening, not even talking about the acute response. Now it's staying there and persisting for days, weeks, months, or potentially even longer.
Now remember, that's the thing that keeps things out of your brain and in your body and kind of keeps the separation there. If we've got a brain injury, we potentially have damage to that membrane as well. And so we've got excessive inflammation happening, not even talking about the acute response. Now it's staying there and persisting for days, weeks, months, or potentially even longer.
This causes a migration of what's called peripheral immune cells into the brain and releases a whole storm of cytokines. These are communication tools that come out of your body from one organ to the next. They're not necessarily good or bad, but in this case, it's so large and it's so extreme that it continues to exacerbate this inflammatory problem.
This causes a migration of what's called peripheral immune cells into the brain and releases a whole storm of cytokines. These are communication tools that come out of your body from one organ to the next. They're not necessarily good or bad, but in this case, it's so large and it's so extreme that it continues to exacerbate this inflammatory problem.
This also causes activation of things that are called residual neural cells. There's a whole host of these things like astrocytes, complement proteins, and so on. These things release reactive oxidative species, they release that glutamate again, and they release those cytokines. And so you can see how this circle just sort of perpetuates itself.
This also causes activation of things that are called residual neural cells. There's a whole host of these things like astrocytes, complement proteins, and so on. These things release reactive oxidative species, they release that glutamate again, and they release those cytokines. And so you can see how this circle just sort of perpetuates itself.
It's not always a bad response, but in this particular case, since there's been so much structural damage, one more time, the cycle just continues. This is gonna really harm the brain's healing. It's gonna facilitate formation of what are called membrane attack complexes. You could just hear from that term.
It's not always a bad response, but in this particular case, since there's been so much structural damage, one more time, the cycle just continues. This is gonna really harm the brain's healing. It's gonna facilitate formation of what are called membrane attack complexes. You could just hear from that term.
That's probably not a good thing again We're trying to clean out the damage, but it's gonna come with a lot of problems This is gonna create like very specifically pores in the membranes of the target cells Which means those are gonna often die now in the case of like a skeletal muscle from exercise. This is okay It's pretty easy to repair But when it's happening in your brain
That's probably not a good thing again We're trying to clean out the damage, but it's gonna come with a lot of problems This is gonna create like very specifically pores in the membranes of the target cells Which means those are gonna often die now in the case of like a skeletal muscle from exercise. This is okay It's pretty easy to repair But when it's happening in your brain
It's a problem, right? So overall, we've got that oxidative stress response, and that's gonna start damaging fat, protein, and DNA, remember. A big portion of your brain is made of fat. So while we're typically not concerned about oxidative stress harming all the fat in the rest of our body, that represents a serious damage to our brain and one that potentially is not reversible.
It's a problem, right? So overall, we've got that oxidative stress response, and that's gonna start damaging fat, protein, and DNA, remember. A big portion of your brain is made of fat. So while we're typically not concerned about oxidative stress harming all the fat in the rest of our body, that represents a serious damage to our brain and one that potentially is not reversible.
Now I know I got pretty technical there. So if I lost any of you, don't worry about it. Just think about it this way. At the highest level, TBI is going to involve some likelihood of a physical injury or damage. This could be your capillaries or any of your vessels, your blood brain barrier, your membranes of your cells, your astrocytes, your neurons are actually physically torn.
Now I know I got pretty technical there. So if I lost any of you, don't worry about it. Just think about it this way. At the highest level, TBI is going to involve some likelihood of a physical injury or damage. This could be your capillaries or any of your vessels, your blood brain barrier, your membranes of your cells, your astrocytes, your neurons are actually physically torn.
If you were a house, this would mean your windows are smashed, your door is broken, you got a hole in a wall. It's not a functionality issue as it is an actual structure is broken and has to be repaired. Now, in addition to that, we're going to be dealing with a secondary problem, which is now because we don't have the physical structure to get in nutrients and get waste out, we can't make energy.
If you were a house, this would mean your windows are smashed, your door is broken, you got a hole in a wall. It's not a functionality issue as it is an actual structure is broken and has to be repaired. Now, in addition to that, we're going to be dealing with a secondary problem, which is now because we don't have the physical structure to get in nutrients and get waste out, we can't make energy.
So problem number two is a massive energy deficit. Your brain's going to try to get around it. It's going to start ramping up our less effective methods of producing energy, but it's never going to catch up. And so physical damage, number one, energy deficit, number two. Number three in response to number one and two is this prolonged inflammatory response.
So problem number two is a massive energy deficit. Your brain's going to try to get around it. It's going to start ramping up our less effective methods of producing energy, but it's never going to catch up. And so physical damage, number one, energy deficit, number two. Number three in response to number one and two is this prolonged inflammatory response.
And so we're sending in molecules that let the inflammation continue and they exacerbate it and they start breaking down and killing and getting rid of actual tissue. And so the ones that maybe were not injured initially will be injured or removed entirely in the weeks to months because of this inflammatory response. So effectively, those are our three big problems.
And so we're sending in molecules that let the inflammation continue and they exacerbate it and they start breaking down and killing and getting rid of actual tissue. And so the ones that maybe were not injured initially will be injured or removed entirely in the weeks to months because of this inflammatory response. So effectively, those are our three big problems.
which means now we can talk about what nutrition options we have to solve or mitigate or at least attenuate, slightly reduce some of those issues. I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by Momentous. Momentous makes supplements of the absolute highest quality.
which means now we can talk about what nutrition options we have to solve or mitigate or at least attenuate, slightly reduce some of those issues. I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by Momentous. Momentous makes supplements of the absolute highest quality.
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Again, that's mauinuivenison.com slash perform for 20% off. Let's jump right into it with our very first nutrient compound, and that's creatine monohydrate. You're probably sick of hearing me talk about it because I've been doing it for so many years, but it's for good reason. There's so much data on it. It is by far the most widely studied sports supplement, and it's not even close.
Again, that's mauinuivenison.com slash perform for 20% off. Let's jump right into it with our very first nutrient compound, and that's creatine monohydrate. You're probably sick of hearing me talk about it because I've been doing it for so many years, but it's for good reason. There's so much data on it. It is by far the most widely studied sports supplement, and it's not even close.
It's been studied in every population, healthy, diseased, young, old, men, women, kids, so on and so forth. And there's really very limited side effects, if any, that have been reported. Now creatine itself is a naturally occurring derivative of three very specific amino acids, methionine, glycine, and arginine. These are really, really common.
It's been studied in every population, healthy, diseased, young, old, men, women, kids, so on and so forth. And there's really very limited side effects, if any, that have been reported. Now creatine itself is a naturally occurring derivative of three very specific amino acids, methionine, glycine, and arginine. These are really, really common.
Creatine itself, I typically have talked about how it's stored in muscle and used as a great fuel source. But many people don't realize it's actually also stored in your liver, testes, and brain. The last one, of course, is where we're gonna pay our attention to today. Now it's stored in the brain so that it can be used as a very quick fuel source. Your gears should be turning at this point.
Creatine itself, I typically have talked about how it's stored in muscle and used as a great fuel source. But many people don't realize it's actually also stored in your liver, testes, and brain. The last one, of course, is where we're gonna pay our attention to today. Now it's stored in the brain so that it can be used as a very quick fuel source. Your gears should be turning at this point.
Remember, one of the primary issues we have with the TBI is that energy demand problem. And so it made a ton of sense to scientists very early on to say, okay, we know that we have energy issues. We know that the fastest way any of our tissues can make energy is through creatine monohydrate. And we know it's in store in the brain already. It makes sense to try that.
Remember, one of the primary issues we have with the TBI is that energy demand problem. And so it made a ton of sense to scientists very early on to say, okay, we know that we have energy issues. We know that the fastest way any of our tissues can make energy is through creatine monohydrate. And we know it's in store in the brain already. It makes sense to try that.
to both prevent or reduce the risk of and then treat brain injuries. So it's no surprise when we look at the research here on both TBI as well as aging and normal brain health research to find that creatine monohydrate often improves cognitive function in both brain injury and normal healthy aging folks.
to both prevent or reduce the risk of and then treat brain injuries. So it's no surprise when we look at the research here on both TBI as well as aging and normal brain health research to find that creatine monohydrate often improves cognitive function in both brain injury and normal healthy aging folks.
Now, it's not the world's most powerful nootropic, but it is effective and been shown again in many models and many studies across many laboratories. So because it's so effective at giving energy, especially in low oxygen situations, you'll see evidence across injury and TBI papers, but also just normal cognitive function in healthy individuals out to see benefit, right?
Now, it's not the world's most powerful nootropic, but it is effective and been shown again in many models and many studies across many laboratories. So because it's so effective at giving energy, especially in low oxygen situations, you'll see evidence across injury and TBI papers, but also just normal cognitive function in healthy individuals out to see benefit, right?
So creatine is effective in all of those populations, and the physiology, biochemistry make total sense. Now, specifically regarding TBIs and concussions, one of the things you want to pay attention to a lot is what's called the second impact syndrome. Many people have not heard of this, but this is the basic idea of repeated head blows cause more damage, as time goes on.
So creatine is effective in all of those populations, and the physiology, biochemistry make total sense. Now, specifically regarding TBIs and concussions, one of the things you want to pay attention to a lot is what's called the second impact syndrome. Many people have not heard of this, but this is the basic idea of repeated head blows cause more damage, as time goes on.
And so one of the things that's been shown with creatine is it is really effective for that second impact syndrome. More specifically, it's been shown that the repeated head blows cause more damage if the creatine is depleted prior to the additional impacts. Okay, so imagine you had one single impact, the more creatine depletion you have, the worse damage you get if you have a secondary impact.
And so one of the things that's been shown with creatine is it is really effective for that second impact syndrome. More specifically, it's been shown that the repeated head blows cause more damage if the creatine is depleted prior to the additional impacts. Okay, so imagine you had one single impact, the more creatine depletion you have, the worse damage you get if you have a secondary impact.
This is any athlete that's going to be in sparring or competitions where we're getting a lot of impacts. This is military or special forces or anything like that that is getting low impact repeated exposures or blasts. The more creatine depletion that happens, the worse the damage in your brain that occurs after the second or repeated impact. So right there,
This is any athlete that's going to be in sparring or competitions where we're getting a lot of impacts. This is military or special forces or anything like that that is getting low impact repeated exposures or blasts. The more creatine depletion that happens, the worse the damage in your brain that occurs after the second or repeated impact. So right there,
we can see that if you've had an injury, making sure your creaking stores are replenished as quickly as possible is really important if we're going to continue in that exposure. Now, that's important because many people don't recognize or realize the first injury happened to begin with. Most of them are unreported. Most don't realize it. Hard to diagnose.
we can see that if you've had an injury, making sure your creaking stores are replenished as quickly as possible is really important if we're going to continue in that exposure. Now, that's important because many people don't recognize or realize the first injury happened to begin with. Most of them are unreported. Most don't realize it. Hard to diagnose.
And so prophylactically, it just maybe makes some sense to make sure that you're taking care of business, not necessarily just when you have an injury, but if you even think you're at risk or in high-risk situations or prior to high-risk exposures or competitions.
And so prophylactically, it just maybe makes some sense to make sure that you're taking care of business, not necessarily just when you have an injury, but if you even think you're at risk or in high-risk situations or prior to high-risk exposures or competitions.
All right, good example of this, there's a pretty famous study, I think it was in high school, football players, high school or college, but nonetheless, football players, American football, that is, that did indicate that creatine stores in their brain, I think specifically in the motor and prefrontal cortex, reduced over the course of the season.
All right, good example of this, there's a pretty famous study, I think it was in high school, football players, high school or college, but nonetheless, football players, American football, that is, that did indicate that creatine stores in their brain, I think specifically in the motor and prefrontal cortex, reduced over the course of the season.
Now, this is not a perfect study design, but you can see what this is alluding to. If you're in a situation, again, with repeated head impacts over the course of a season, The number of impacts, in fact, maybe I'll back up quickly. In this particular study, what they did is they filmed the games. And so what they measured is, for each individual player, how many head contacts they had.
Now, this is not a perfect study design, but you can see what this is alluding to. If you're in a situation, again, with repeated head impacts over the course of a season, The number of impacts, in fact, maybe I'll back up quickly. In this particular study, what they did is they filmed the games. And so what they measured is, for each individual player, how many head contacts they had.
But there was an association between those players that had more head impacts, not even necessarily injuries, and the level of creatine reduction in the brain over the course of the season. So again, we're making some assumptions here, but I think it's fair to at least say it's plausible
But there was an association between those players that had more head impacts, not even necessarily injuries, and the level of creatine reduction in the brain over the course of the season. So again, we're making some assumptions here, but I think it's fair to at least say it's plausible
The more impacts on your brain, the more creatine is reduced, potentially the higher risk you are for second impact syndrome injuries. Now, before we go any further with the creatine research, I need to do a quick pause and explain to you what I mean when I say strong evidence or weak evidence. There's no perfect way to do that.
The more impacts on your brain, the more creatine is reduced, potentially the higher risk you are for second impact syndrome injuries. Now, before we go any further with the creatine research, I need to do a quick pause and explain to you what I mean when I say strong evidence or weak evidence. There's no perfect way to do that.
but an easy way to roughly understand is called the strength of evidence scale. So I will abbreviate that and the rest of today's episode by just calling it the SOE, the strength of evidence. This takes into account research design, the quality of the relevant studies, the applicability to patient care, and a number of other factors.
but an easy way to roughly understand is called the strength of evidence scale. So I will abbreviate that and the rest of today's episode by just calling it the SOE, the strength of evidence. This takes into account research design, the quality of the relevant studies, the applicability to patient care, and a number of other factors.
It's up to you ultimately to decide what is an actionable level of evidence or not. Some people that are maybe suffering from a brain injury consider a study in animals to be enough, and others wanna see a randomized controlled trial in humans. That's not for me to decide, that's up to you, but I do wanna share with you where the level of evidence is, and you can make your choice from there.
It's up to you ultimately to decide what is an actionable level of evidence or not. Some people that are maybe suffering from a brain injury consider a study in animals to be enough, and others wanna see a randomized controlled trial in humans. That's not for me to decide, that's up to you, but I do wanna share with you where the level of evidence is, and you can make your choice from there.
So the SOE is on a scale of one to five. A score of one is the best. That is the highest score possible. This means we see consistent results across multiple studies. You've seen it in both randomized control trials as well as systematic reviews and so on and so forth. A score of say four or five would be the opposite. That would be our lowest score.
So the SOE is on a scale of one to five. A score of one is the best. That is the highest score possible. This means we see consistent results across multiple studies. You've seen it in both randomized control trials as well as systematic reviews and so on and so forth. A score of say four or five would be the opposite. That would be our lowest score.
Maybe there's evidence there, but it's from case studies or case control studies. Maybe it's mechanism only or some other model that's close. Maybe research from aging or dementia. Not the same as brain injury, but it shares some mechanisms. You get the idea here. So for example, the SOE for creatine monohydrate is a two. My opinion personally, that's pretty good.
Maybe there's evidence there, but it's from case studies or case control studies. Maybe it's mechanism only or some other model that's close. Maybe research from aging or dementia. Not the same as brain injury, but it shares some mechanisms. You get the idea here. So for example, the SOE for creatine monohydrate is a two. My opinion personally, that's pretty good.
Summarizing the collective evidence here, there's been a lot of research on everything from kids to rugby players to mountain bikers. And collectively, you're going to see it supports cognitive health. It's been shown actually in psychiatric disorders.
Summarizing the collective evidence here, there's been a lot of research on everything from kids to rugby players to mountain bikers. And collectively, you're going to see it supports cognitive health. It's been shown actually in psychiatric disorders.
There's, I believe, two randomized control trials that I'm aware of that have found five grams of creatine per day added in addition to antidepressant treatments improve depressive symptoms. So take that for what you will. Regarding TBIs and brain injuries, there's an argument we can make here for preventative use, specifically for neuronal damage and injury.
There's, I believe, two randomized control trials that I'm aware of that have found five grams of creatine per day added in addition to antidepressant treatments improve depressive symptoms. So take that for what you will. Regarding TBIs and brain injuries, there's an argument we can make here for preventative use, specifically for neuronal damage and injury.
There's been shown to reduce cortical damage following a TBI by anywhere between 35% to 50%. That'd be 5-0. Pretty substantial amount there. Should catch your attention. They don't know exactly how it works, but it's thought to prevent some of that mitochondrial dysfunction I was talking about a few minutes ago. Helps maintain the membrane health.
There's been shown to reduce cortical damage following a TBI by anywhere between 35% to 50%. That'd be 5-0. Pretty substantial amount there. Should catch your attention. They don't know exactly how it works, but it's thought to prevent some of that mitochondrial dysfunction I was talking about a few minutes ago. Helps maintain the membrane health.
Certainly has a role in fending off that downstream reactive oxygen species, ATP, calcium. So a lot of those things we just got done covering. That's why we covered them. Creatine probably has a role, again, we need more information here, but likely has a role in either eliminating or at least drastically reducing some of those issues.
Certainly has a role in fending off that downstream reactive oxygen species, ATP, calcium. So a lot of those things we just got done covering. That's why we covered them. Creatine probably has a role, again, we need more information here, but likely has a role in either eliminating or at least drastically reducing some of those issues.
And finally then, what you care more about is the downstream TBI effects have also been documented. What I mean here is sleep, cognition, and actual mood seem to be enhanced with the creatine. Furthermore, there's actually some studies that have specifically been done on kids. There's one I'm thinking of, In detail here, that was everything from 1 to 18 year olds that had severe TBIs.
And finally then, what you care more about is the downstream TBI effects have also been documented. What I mean here is sleep, cognition, and actual mood seem to be enhanced with the creatine. Furthermore, there's actually some studies that have specifically been done on kids. There's one I'm thinking of, In detail here, that was everything from 1 to 18 year olds that had severe TBIs.
In this particular paper, they gave them 0.4 grams per kilogram of body weight. If you do the math there, that ends up being a pretty standard dose, but appropriately it was done based on body size. You have two year olds and 18 year olds, so we can't give them all just five grams. So a relative dose was given to them within four hours post-injury and done so for six months.
In this particular paper, they gave them 0.4 grams per kilogram of body weight. If you do the math there, that ends up being a pretty standard dose, but appropriately it was done based on body size. You have two year olds and 18 year olds, so we can't give them all just five grams. So a relative dose was given to them within four hours post-injury and done so for six months.
In that particular study, they found improvements in everything from amnesia to the length of stay in the ICU, improvements in communication, locomotion, and social skills. And more importantly, one of the things I loved most about this was the researchers were clear in the fact that the treatment provided costs significantly less than the standard treatment protocol.
In that particular study, they found improvements in everything from amnesia to the length of stay in the ICU, improvements in communication, locomotion, and social skills. And more importantly, one of the things I loved most about this was the researchers were clear in the fact that the treatment provided costs significantly less than the standard treatment protocol.
And this is something I felt was really important because I know supplements are not cheap and many of you can't afford any cost whatsoever. But if you can, while creatine, I know, I know I hear this all the time, has gotten more expensive in recent years, it's still likely far cheaper than a standard hospital protocol. So if you can possibly afford it, seems to be a pretty good option.
And this is something I felt was really important because I know supplements are not cheap and many of you can't afford any cost whatsoever. But if you can, while creatine, I know, I know I hear this all the time, has gotten more expensive in recent years, it's still likely far cheaper than a standard hospital protocol. So if you can possibly afford it, seems to be a pretty good option.
Another thing I want to point out here, because it comes up all the time as well, in this study, again, remember, kids, six months of creatine, there were no signs of any kidney, liver, or heart side effects. So overall, we would deem creatine as a pretty strong chance of success in both the physiology as well as actual symptoms with a very low likelihood of injury or adverse effects.
Another thing I want to point out here, because it comes up all the time as well, in this study, again, remember, kids, six months of creatine, there were no signs of any kidney, liver, or heart side effects. So overall, we would deem creatine as a pretty strong chance of success in both the physiology as well as actual symptoms with a very low likelihood of injury or adverse effects.
For me personally, I wouldn't hesitate to give this to one of my kids if they have it. It's entirely up to you to make your choice. I'm not advocating you do anything that you don't wanna do or are uncomfortable with. I'm just letting you know, for me, when I look at the research as a parent myself of two young kids, I would not hesitate at all to use this in my children.
For me personally, I wouldn't hesitate to give this to one of my kids if they have it. It's entirely up to you to make your choice. I'm not advocating you do anything that you don't wanna do or are uncomfortable with. I'm just letting you know, for me, when I look at the research as a parent myself of two young kids, I would not hesitate at all to use this in my children.
So how do you actually use creatine? Well, you have a couple of options. One, you can try to get this from Whole Foods, and I'll present to you exactly what that would mean in amounts. Or you can use the supplementation route. I guess a third option would be to use a combination of both.
So how do you actually use creatine? Well, you have a couple of options. One, you can try to get this from Whole Foods, and I'll present to you exactly what that would mean in amounts. Or you can use the supplementation route. I guess a third option would be to use a combination of both.
So most of the data on creatine monohydrate for brain injuries, they're typically using dosages of about 20 grams per day. Now that's four times the typical dose you'll see for performance benefits. So this is one of our major things we have to pay attention to. This is not a dosage that's just your standard five grams, five grams, five grams. It is much higher for the brain health benefits.
So most of the data on creatine monohydrate for brain injuries, they're typically using dosages of about 20 grams per day. Now that's four times the typical dose you'll see for performance benefits. So this is one of our major things we have to pay attention to. This is not a dosage that's just your standard five grams, five grams, five grams. It is much higher for the brain health benefits.
Now, oftentimes that's a little bit challenging. And so you'll see typical protocols instead of taking 20 grams at once are things like five grams administered four times per day, right? So the benefits are typically thought of as both acute and chronic. I know I've said many, many, many years now that creatine is not an acute thing. It's not caffeine.
Now, oftentimes that's a little bit challenging. And so you'll see typical protocols instead of taking 20 grams at once are things like five grams administered four times per day, right? So the benefits are typically thought of as both acute and chronic. I know I've said many, many, many years now that creatine is not an acute thing. It's not caffeine.
You don't take creatine right now and feel this big stimulation effects. It takes weeks or months to build up. However, One paper that came out recently kind of shook everyone's world, a 2024 paper. Just one paper here, so temper a little bit. I'm tempering my own expectations.
You don't take creatine right now and feel this big stimulation effects. It takes weeks or months to build up. However, One paper that came out recently kind of shook everyone's world, a 2024 paper. Just one paper here, so temper a little bit. I'm tempering my own expectations.
But a recent paper suggested that a very high dose, I think it was 0.35 grams per kilogram of body weight, was enough to attenuate the drop in cognitive performance after sleep deprivation. So you take people through sleep deprivation, the next day you give them this giant bolus of creatine, and those that took the creatine had less of a cognitive drop. from sleep deprivation.
But a recent paper suggested that a very high dose, I think it was 0.35 grams per kilogram of body weight, was enough to attenuate the drop in cognitive performance after sleep deprivation. So you take people through sleep deprivation, the next day you give them this giant bolus of creatine, and those that took the creatine had less of a cognitive drop. from sleep deprivation.
I actually think the benefits started at about three and a half hours and lasted up to nine hours. So potentially say something bad happened and you didn't get a great night of sleep and you could take this maybe 20 gram dose in the morning and by noon or so or for the rest of the day, you might have some improvements in cognitive function.
I actually think the benefits started at about three and a half hours and lasted up to nine hours. So potentially say something bad happened and you didn't get a great night of sleep and you could take this maybe 20 gram dose in the morning and by noon or so or for the rest of the day, you might have some improvements in cognitive function.
That's the first paper I've ever seen that I'm aware of to show an acute effect of creatine. But since that was so dramatic, I wanted to make sure I drew it to your attention. So to me, you have an option there for brain health. And now if we consider this in context of the episode of today, even getting this creatine in immediately potentially has a brain impact.
That's the first paper I've ever seen that I'm aware of to show an acute effect of creatine. But since that was so dramatic, I wanted to make sure I drew it to your attention. So to me, you have an option there for brain health. And now if we consider this in context of the episode of today, even getting this creatine in immediately potentially has a brain impact.
And that's why I wanted to bring that study up as it relates to the current topic. Other studies have found that that 20 grams per day for seven days enhances cognitive function. This is specifically the mountain biker study I'm referring to.
And that's why I wanted to bring that study up as it relates to the current topic. Other studies have found that that 20 grams per day for seven days enhances cognitive function. This is specifically the mountain biker study I'm referring to.
And so generally, me personally, this is not the studies, this is me personally, based on the work that I've read, I think five to 10 grams per day is probably plenty for most people as a prophylactic. So kind of an ongoing option to be at that number.
And so generally, me personally, this is not the studies, this is me personally, based on the work that I've read, I think five to 10 grams per day is probably plenty for most people as a prophylactic. So kind of an ongoing option to be at that number.
That said, and again, candidly, this is what I do for my athletes, seven days or so prior to a high risk situation, a competition, something like that, a race or an event, we're going to up that dose to 20 to 30 grams for that seven days. All right. Again, one more time, when I do that, it is hard to choke down 20 grams at once. That's a handful of scoops.
That said, and again, candidly, this is what I do for my athletes, seven days or so prior to a high risk situation, a competition, something like that, a race or an event, we're going to up that dose to 20 to 30 grams for that seven days. All right. Again, one more time, when I do that, it is hard to choke down 20 grams at once. That's a handful of scoops.
And so we'll often try to get 5 to 10 grams in the morning, 5 to 10 grams at night, and split up the dosages throughout the day, simply from my practical perspective. Now, one of my favorite sayings is there are no free passes in physiology. Creatine is not perfect. It's not a panacea, and there are some potential risks. The biggest one is GI distress.
And so we'll often try to get 5 to 10 grams in the morning, 5 to 10 grams at night, and split up the dosages throughout the day, simply from my practical perspective. Now, one of my favorite sayings is there are no free passes in physiology. Creatine is not perfect. It's not a panacea, and there are some potential risks. The biggest one is GI distress.
Some people have a gas or bloating or stomach cramps at even five grams a day. So taking them to 20 or 30 may cause some serious issues. It's not that frequently reported. I've never experienced it. I can't think of a situation where I've ever had an athlete or client reported, but it is a real thing. It is pretty uncommon, but it is reported. And so you will want to pay attention to that.
Some people have a gas or bloating or stomach cramps at even five grams a day. So taking them to 20 or 30 may cause some serious issues. It's not that frequently reported. I've never experienced it. I can't think of a situation where I've ever had an athlete or client reported, but it is a real thing. It is pretty uncommon, but it is reported. And so you will want to pay attention to that.
Outside of that, there isn't really any documented problems associated, even with high dosages, 20 plus grams a day, for years. There have been studies in kids, elderly, various we'll call risky or unhealthy populations, for many, many years.
Outside of that, there isn't really any documented problems associated, even with high dosages, 20 plus grams a day, for years. There have been studies in kids, elderly, various we'll call risky or unhealthy populations, for many, many years.
You can look all across basically all those studies and you just won't find really any other adverse events outside of the possible mild or moderate GI distress. Now, if the supplement does give you GI distress or you can't afford it, don't have access to it, or for any other reason, just don't like supplements,
You can look all across basically all those studies and you just won't find really any other adverse events outside of the possible mild or moderate GI distress. Now, if the supplement does give you GI distress or you can't afford it, don't have access to it, or for any other reason, just don't like supplements,
You can theoretically get here with food, but it is admittedly very challenging, especially for those vegans and vegetarians, because the primary source of creatine from food comes from muscle or meat. The most common places of creatine in meat are gonna be things like beef, chicken, salmon, tuna, cod. And they mostly have somewhere between 400 to 600 milligrams of creatine per 100 grams of meat.
You can theoretically get here with food, but it is admittedly very challenging, especially for those vegans and vegetarians, because the primary source of creatine from food comes from muscle or meat. The most common places of creatine in meat are gonna be things like beef, chicken, salmon, tuna, cod. And they mostly have somewhere between 400 to 600 milligrams of creatine per 100 grams of meat.
Now, I know in America, you're thinking, what the hell is 100 grams? The rest of the world knows exactly what that means. But 100 grams is about three and a half ounces. A typical serving size at a restaurant is seven ounces or so. And so you can kind of double it.
Now, I know in America, you're thinking, what the hell is 100 grams? The rest of the world knows exactly what that means. But 100 grams is about three and a half ounces. A typical serving size at a restaurant is seven ounces or so. And so you can kind of double it.
In other words, beef specifically has 600 milligrams of creatine per 100 grams, but a typical serving is 200 grams, so you'd be getting 1,200 milligrams. 1,200 milligrams is also 1.2 grams, okay? Now, the average American at least eats about 350 grams or 12 ounces of meat per day. So if you did some basic math there, which would mean you're at about 2,000 milligrams or 2 grams of creatine per day.
In other words, beef specifically has 600 milligrams of creatine per 100 grams, but a typical serving is 200 grams, so you'd be getting 1,200 milligrams. 1,200 milligrams is also 1.2 grams, okay? Now, the average American at least eats about 350 grams or 12 ounces of meat per day. So if you did some basic math there, which would mean you're at about 2,000 milligrams or 2 grams of creatine per day.
So while it is possible theoretically to get all your creatine from food, it's honestly quite challenging. So supplementation just might be the better option in this case. I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by AG1. AG1 is a foundational nutrition greens supplement.
So while it is possible theoretically to get all your creatine from food, it's honestly quite challenging. So supplementation just might be the better option in this case. I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by AG1. AG1 is a foundational nutrition greens supplement.
That means AG1 provides a variety of vitamins, minerals, probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens in an easy to drink greens powder. Initially, I was very skeptical of AG1. as I am with all supplement companies, frankly.
That means AG1 provides a variety of vitamins, minerals, probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens in an easy to drink greens powder. Initially, I was very skeptical of AG1. as I am with all supplement companies, frankly.
But after months of discussions with their lead nutrition scientists and the team at AG1, I've been impressed by their commitment to sourcing the highest quality ingredients and rigorous testing to ensure that every single batch is free of banned substances, allergens, heavy metals, microbes, pesticides, herbicides, residual solvents, and mycotoxins.
But after months of discussions with their lead nutrition scientists and the team at AG1, I've been impressed by their commitment to sourcing the highest quality ingredients and rigorous testing to ensure that every single batch is free of banned substances, allergens, heavy metals, microbes, pesticides, herbicides, residual solvents, and mycotoxins.
It's even earned the prestigious NSF Certified for Sport third-party testing approval. Now, AG1 is not a replacement for eating whole foods, but it is a great way to fill in the gaps, and it's been a big help pushing some of my clients just in the right direction for eating more high-quality foods because it helps them with cravings, digestion, and many other benefits.
It's even earned the prestigious NSF Certified for Sport third-party testing approval. Now, AG1 is not a replacement for eating whole foods, but it is a great way to fill in the gaps, and it's been a big help pushing some of my clients just in the right direction for eating more high-quality foods because it helps them with cravings, digestion, and many other benefits.
Now, not everyone needs to consume greens powders, but if you're going to do so, you better make sure it actually includes the ingredients that it claims to and that those ingredients are of the best sourcing. If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com slash perform to receive five free travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 plus K2.
Now, not everyone needs to consume greens powders, but if you're going to do so, you better make sure it actually includes the ingredients that it claims to and that those ingredients are of the best sourcing. If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com slash perform to receive five free travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 plus K2.
Again, that's drinkag1.com slash perform to receive five free travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 plus K2. Today's episode is also brought to us by David. David makes protein bars unlike anything I've ever encountered. They have an amazing 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from protein.
Again, that's drinkag1.com slash perform to receive five free travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3 plus K2. Today's episode is also brought to us by David. David makes protein bars unlike anything I've ever encountered. They have an amazing 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from protein.
This is 50% higher than the next closest protein bar. Honestly, it's the best tasting protein bar I've ever had in my life by a mile. Now, I don't usually talk about products before their launch, but these bars by David represent a meaningful breakthrough in both macronutrients and taste. And when you guys try it, you will know what I mean.
This is 50% higher than the next closest protein bar. Honestly, it's the best tasting protein bar I've ever had in my life by a mile. Now, I don't usually talk about products before their launch, but these bars by David represent a meaningful breakthrough in both macronutrients and taste. And when you guys try it, you will know what I mean.
After lots of research and development, these David protein bars are releasing to the public in September of 2024. The macronutrients, one more time, are 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, and 0 grams of sugar. And they do this with excellent ingredients.
After lots of research and development, these David protein bars are releasing to the public in September of 2024. The macronutrients, one more time, are 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, and 0 grams of sugar. And they do this with excellent ingredients.
If you're interested in trying these bars for yourself, you can go to davidprotein.com slash perform to purchase if possible, or be notified when they're available. Again, that's davidprotein.com slash perform to purchase if possible, or be notified when they are available. Our next topic is fish oil. More specifically, what I mean here is DHA and EPA. DHEA is accumulated in the brain.
If you're interested in trying these bars for yourself, you can go to davidprotein.com slash perform to purchase if possible, or be notified when they're available. Again, that's davidprotein.com slash perform to purchase if possible, or be notified when they are available. Our next topic is fish oil. More specifically, what I mean here is DHA and EPA. DHEA is accumulated in the brain.
In fact, it's about 10% of your brain or so. So it makes a lot of sense that this one's going to be pretty important. It's critical for everything from neurological function to injury risk, metabolic rate, prevention of neurodegeneration, aging and brain health, and Alzheimer's, dementia, and so on and so forth. Incredibly important to actual structure. EPA is a little bit different.
In fact, it's about 10% of your brain or so. So it makes a lot of sense that this one's going to be pretty important. It's critical for everything from neurological function to injury risk, metabolic rate, prevention of neurodegeneration, aging and brain health, and Alzheimer's, dementia, and so on and so forth. Incredibly important to actual structure. EPA is a little bit different.
It's mainly involved in vascular function, inflammation, oxygen delivery, nutrient delivery to the brain, and so on and so forth. So these are typically tied together, so I'm not going to really differentiate them as most omega-3s come with both EPA and DHA.
It's mainly involved in vascular function, inflammation, oxygen delivery, nutrient delivery to the brain, and so on and so forth. So these are typically tied together, so I'm not going to really differentiate them as most omega-3s come with both EPA and DHA.
Now, while I said earlier that creatine is by far the most studied sports supplement, because it is, omega-3s are by far the most studied regarding traumatic brain injury. There are dozens and dozens of studies, systematic reviews, randomized control trials on omega-3s and brain-related injuries and various head traumas.
Now, while I said earlier that creatine is by far the most studied sports supplement, because it is, omega-3s are by far the most studied regarding traumatic brain injury. There are dozens and dozens of studies, systematic reviews, randomized control trials on omega-3s and brain-related injuries and various head traumas.
However, you might be surprised to know I'm not aware of any direct evidence of omega-3s and TBIs. So this is a great example of me saying, hey, look, there's still a lot of good tangential or indirect evidence here, so much I feel like it's overwhelming, but not necessarily that much directly on TBIs. For the reasons we've described earlier, they're just hard studies to carry out.
However, you might be surprised to know I'm not aware of any direct evidence of omega-3s and TBIs. So this is a great example of me saying, hey, look, there's still a lot of good tangential or indirect evidence here, so much I feel like it's overwhelming, but not necessarily that much directly on TBIs. For the reasons we've described earlier, they're just hard studies to carry out.
In general, what you're going to see is, frankly, they work. They work for both pre and post impacts. The SOE is technically three here. And you generally see main effects and benefits from cerebral perfusion. So this is getting that blood and oxygen and flow of nutrients in and out of the brain.
In general, what you're going to see is, frankly, they work. They work for both pre and post impacts. The SOE is technically three here. And you generally see main effects and benefits from cerebral perfusion. So this is getting that blood and oxygen and flow of nutrients in and out of the brain.
Remember, the primary cause of injury there is that structural, that tissue and that axon shearing, that kind of ripping apart. And so what that does is cause that cascade of secondary insults that mismatch the blood flow and the metabolic demand. We talked about that earlier. Omega-3s land right on that problem for solutions.
Remember, the primary cause of injury there is that structural, that tissue and that axon shearing, that kind of ripping apart. And so what that does is cause that cascade of secondary insults that mismatch the blood flow and the metabolic demand. We talked about that earlier. Omega-3s land right on that problem for solutions.
And the reason is it helps dramatically with what's called arterial pliability and compliance. And so when we're having issues getting blood in, the arteries can either be broke or damaged or stiff, and omega-3s really help it become more pliable and pliable. open and close more effectively is one way to think about it.
And the reason is it helps dramatically with what's called arterial pliability and compliance. And so when we're having issues getting blood in, the arteries can either be broke or damaged or stiff, and omega-3s really help it become more pliable and pliable. open and close more effectively is one way to think about it.
It's also why you see so much evidence and research on omega-3s for heart health and blood pressure and so on and so forth has the same effect essentially in the brain. Other thing it does that's a huge benefit outside of that cerebral perfusion is it modulates inflammation post-injury by regulating that ROS, reactive oxygen species.
It's also why you see so much evidence and research on omega-3s for heart health and blood pressure and so on and so forth has the same effect essentially in the brain. Other thing it does that's a huge benefit outside of that cerebral perfusion is it modulates inflammation post-injury by regulating that ROS, reactive oxygen species.
It interacts with all kinds of cytokines like interleukin-1 and TNF-alpha, if you're familiar with those. If not, don't worry about it. Even actually, there's one in particular called NFKB. Brain folks will know exactly what I'm talking about here. This actually, functionally, it affects gene expression of a bunch of inflammatory things, so it kind of cuts off inflammation at the genetic level.
It interacts with all kinds of cytokines like interleukin-1 and TNF-alpha, if you're familiar with those. If not, don't worry about it. Even actually, there's one in particular called NFKB. Brain folks will know exactly what I'm talking about here. This actually, functionally, it affects gene expression of a bunch of inflammatory things, so it kind of cuts off inflammation at the genetic level.
So lots of ways that it has an impact. To give you a couple specific examples, one of the most common issues associated with TBI Long-term is called atrophy of the hippocampus. Now that's associated in one of the areas that's mainly responsible for learning and memory. And we know that those are problems, right?
So lots of ways that it has an impact. To give you a couple specific examples, one of the most common issues associated with TBI Long-term is called atrophy of the hippocampus. Now that's associated in one of the areas that's mainly responsible for learning and memory. And we know that those are problems, right?
We know that higher omega-3 intake is associated with a bigger hippocampal volume, right? So we have cross-sectional studies here, longitudinal ones that suggest that people that consume more tend to have a larger hippocampus. And we also see a significant increase in these areas at the dosage of about 2.2 grams per day.
We know that higher omega-3 intake is associated with a bigger hippocampal volume, right? So we have cross-sectional studies here, longitudinal ones that suggest that people that consume more tend to have a larger hippocampus. And we also see a significant increase in these areas at the dosage of about 2.2 grams per day.
2.2 grams of fish oil per day associated with a bigger hippocampus, therefore potential to improve or enhance our learning and memory. Similar things have been done with memory specifically. In fact, one study looked at, I think it was a combination of 900 milligrams of EPA plus 260 milligrams of DHA. And that resulted in greater accuracy and speed of recall tasks. So mental recall memory.
2.2 grams of fish oil per day associated with a bigger hippocampus, therefore potential to improve or enhance our learning and memory. Similar things have been done with memory specifically. In fact, one study looked at, I think it was a combination of 900 milligrams of EPA plus 260 milligrams of DHA. And that resulted in greater accuracy and speed of recall tasks. So mental recall memory.
EPA in general is often really associated with cognitive function, and the DHA is associated with axonal injuries. It works on a thing called neurofilament light, or NFL, and that's actually been specifically shown in college football players, I believe, again, at that two grams per day dosage of DHA.
EPA in general is often really associated with cognitive function, and the DHA is associated with axonal injuries. It works on a thing called neurofilament light, or NFL, and that's actually been specifically shown in college football players, I believe, again, at that two grams per day dosage of DHA.
And so in general, to get to the end here, the dosage for brain-related injuries is somewhere between two to four grams per day, though... There's really little risk. The only adverse issue you're going to typically have here is potentially some loose stool. Again, there's not that much evidence of it, but if you consume a bunch of oil, that can kind of run through you a little bit.
And so in general, to get to the end here, the dosage for brain-related injuries is somewhere between two to four grams per day, though... There's really little risk. The only adverse issue you're going to typically have here is potentially some loose stool. Again, there's not that much evidence of it, but if you consume a bunch of oil, that can kind of run through you a little bit.
Probably not going to see much happen there very often. The timing of it doesn't matter that much. You would certainly want to be taking it before the injury as well as after the injury. And the timing of the day is honestly totally irrelevant. And so pretty easy, pretty fast one to go through, very effective.
Probably not going to see much happen there very often. The timing of it doesn't matter that much. You would certainly want to be taking it before the injury as well as after the injury. And the timing of the day is honestly totally irrelevant. And so pretty easy, pretty fast one to go through, very effective.
I personally will be totally honest, I take a lot more than four grams for other benefits, but very fairly, the available evidence on not necessarily directly TBI RCTs, but the other associated areas of brain health and injury and damage, pretty consistently show the effect happens at about two or so grams, and studies that have looked at higher doses don't see any additional benefit.
I personally will be totally honest, I take a lot more than four grams for other benefits, but very fairly, the available evidence on not necessarily directly TBI RCTs, but the other associated areas of brain health and injury and damage, pretty consistently show the effect happens at about two or so grams, and studies that have looked at higher doses don't see any additional benefit.
So I think it's very fair to say two grams a day or so is the effective dose, and more than that may not give you additional benefit. What's that look like from food? Another example where vegans and vegetarians really should honestly strongly consider supplementation here. We're going to get fish oil from fish, pretty obviously, right?
So I think it's very fair to say two grams a day or so is the effective dose, and more than that may not give you additional benefit. What's that look like from food? Another example where vegans and vegetarians really should honestly strongly consider supplementation here. We're going to get fish oil from fish, pretty obviously, right?
Salmon, herring, sardines, mackerels, trout are generally the most highest concentration ones. Salmon being the most obvious example, that's got about two grams of fish oil per hundred grams. of cooked meat. Again, that'd be three and a half ounces or so, which is not an outrageous dosage at all. Unfortunately, the standard American diet is typically about 100 milligrams of omega-3s per day.
Salmon, herring, sardines, mackerels, trout are generally the most highest concentration ones. Salmon being the most obvious example, that's got about two grams of fish oil per hundred grams. of cooked meat. Again, that'd be three and a half ounces or so, which is not an outrageous dosage at all. Unfortunately, the standard American diet is typically about 100 milligrams of omega-3s per day.
And we need to get to two, right? So you're going to have to up your ante. It's totally possible, but most people just don't do enough of it. This is a really important one to go after. I know I just covered information, but I want to also highlight the fact that you can check
And we need to get to two, right? So you're going to have to up your ante. It's totally possible, but most people just don't do enough of it. This is a really important one to go after. I know I just covered information, but I want to also highlight the fact that you can check
What I mean by that is unlike creatine where it's going to be really hard to measure your creatine monohydrate, especially in your brain levels, you as a preventative strategy should look at your omega-3 index and identify whether you have problems because there's a lot of evidence to suggest if you go into a brain injury with a better omega-3, the brain injury will be less significant.
What I mean by that is unlike creatine where it's going to be really hard to measure your creatine monohydrate, especially in your brain levels, you as a preventative strategy should look at your omega-3 index and identify whether you have problems because there's a lot of evidence to suggest if you go into a brain injury with a better omega-3, the brain injury will be less significant.
So our starting place here is to actually not go into the injury with a problem. I mentioned this, but I'll be more clear. The omega-3 index is not a perfect way to measure it, but it is an effective blood test you can get done. And what that's going to effectively tell you is the percentage of EPA and DHA that's in the membrane of your red blood cells.
So our starting place here is to actually not go into the injury with a problem. I mentioned this, but I'll be more clear. The omega-3 index is not a perfect way to measure it, but it is an effective blood test you can get done. And what that's going to effectively tell you is the percentage of EPA and DHA that's in the membrane of your red blood cells.
And there's been a handful of studies on this that are quite impressive, my opinion. Studies on football players and even basketball players have found that the mass majority of them have an omega-3 index of less than 5%. Optimal is like 8 to 10, maybe even 12. The overwhelming majority of these athletes are less than five.
And there's been a handful of studies on this that are quite impressive, my opinion. Studies on football players and even basketball players have found that the mass majority of them have an omega-3 index of less than 5%. Optimal is like 8 to 10, maybe even 12. The overwhelming majority of these athletes are less than five.
In fact, I think the studies I'm thinking of right now, the two kind of combined, basically none of the athletes had higher than 7%. Again, eight to 12 is what we're looking for. In fact, the reason we're doing that is because there's been known and shown documented cognitive benefits at 10% plus, even as low as 8% plus. So in these studies, no athletes are there.
In fact, I think the studies I'm thinking of right now, the two kind of combined, basically none of the athletes had higher than 7%. Again, eight to 12 is what we're looking for. In fact, the reason we're doing that is because there's been known and shown documented cognitive benefits at 10% plus, even as low as 8% plus. So in these studies, no athletes are there.
In fact, over 50% of the athletes in these studies had an omega-3 index of less than 4%. So it is really, really, really common in our athletes to see omega-3 status being really insufficient. And the same thing has happened in the general population. So you can 100% achieve enough for brain health through food if you'd like, you just need to make a considered effort for it.
In fact, over 50% of the athletes in these studies had an omega-3 index of less than 4%. So it is really, really, really common in our athletes to see omega-3 status being really insufficient. And the same thing has happened in the general population. So you can 100% achieve enough for brain health through food if you'd like, you just need to make a considered effort for it.
And you can see and go back to hear the dosages. Or you can use supplements or a combination, but you absolutely want to make sure that you're doing this prophylactically as well as if you do experience an injury, getting right on the supplementation as quickly as you can. Next up is what's called vitamin B2 or riboflavin.
And you can see and go back to hear the dosages. Or you can use supplements or a combination, but you absolutely want to make sure that you're doing this prophylactically as well as if you do experience an injury, getting right on the supplementation as quickly as you can. Next up is what's called vitamin B2 or riboflavin.
We're going into riboflavin next because it is a requirement for proper DHA utilization. Here's what I mean. There's some really nice studies showing that if you give people DHA, but they have insufficient B2, B6, B9, B12, and choline, they won't integrate that DHA into their brain.
We're going into riboflavin next because it is a requirement for proper DHA utilization. Here's what I mean. There's some really nice studies showing that if you give people DHA, but they have insufficient B2, B6, B9, B12, and choline, they won't integrate that DHA into their brain.
So it's really, really hard technically to get the DHA to integrate into the phospholipid membrane without these B vitamins. And so part and parcel to our appropriate omega-3 status is making sure we're not vitamin B deficient. And specifically in this case, we're talking about riboflavin. So it is a coenzyme for ATP production. It's a part of many of our energy production cycles.
So it's really, really hard technically to get the DHA to integrate into the phospholipid membrane without these B vitamins. And so part and parcel to our appropriate omega-3 status is making sure we're not vitamin B deficient. And specifically in this case, we're talking about riboflavin. So it is a coenzyme for ATP production. It's a part of many of our energy production cycles.
It's also highly responsible for glutathione. You'll hear me bring this up again, but glutathione is our chief endogenous antioxidant. It's the big whopper, okay? So going back to our problems associated with injury, Riboflavin is going to play a role in two of those ones, energy production, as well as inflammation or antioxidant capacity. So really helpful from that regard.
It's also highly responsible for glutathione. You'll hear me bring this up again, but glutathione is our chief endogenous antioxidant. It's the big whopper, okay? So going back to our problems associated with injury, Riboflavin is going to play a role in two of those ones, energy production, as well as inflammation or antioxidant capacity. So really helpful from that regard.
Since we know TBI has metabolic problems, it makes sense that these B2 and other B vitamins are going to probably play an important role. The SOE on riboflavin is a three. Now, personally, that's enough for me to take action. You're welcome to choose your own level. I've actually not a score here, but I have utilized and will probably continue to utilize riboflavin for head-related injuries.
Since we know TBI has metabolic problems, it makes sense that these B2 and other B vitamins are going to probably play an important role. The SOE on riboflavin is a three. Now, personally, that's enough for me to take action. You're welcome to choose your own level. I've actually not a score here, but I have utilized and will probably continue to utilize riboflavin for head-related injuries.
There's great data in rat studies that have shown riboflavin helps with some of the behavioral modification issues associated with downstream TBI problems. Humans, there's not that much research, candidly. Again, that's why it has an SOE score of 3, not 2 or 1. And what we do know is there's kind of two studies in particular that are classic, and they both used about 400 milligrams per day.
There's great data in rat studies that have shown riboflavin helps with some of the behavioral modification issues associated with downstream TBI problems. Humans, there's not that much research, candidly. Again, that's why it has an SOE score of 3, not 2 or 1. And what we do know is there's kind of two studies in particular that are classic, and they both used about 400 milligrams per day.
One of them is a bit older, 1998, I think it was published, and it was actually in migraines. And what it showed is that it was safe and well-tolerated. Now, interestingly, this was followed up in 2023, and they gave, again, 400 milligrams. I think they actually did it twice per day instead of once per day, starting 24 hours after injury.
One of them is a bit older, 1998, I think it was published, and it was actually in migraines. And what it showed is that it was safe and well-tolerated. Now, interestingly, this was followed up in 2023, and they gave, again, 400 milligrams. I think they actually did it twice per day instead of once per day, starting 24 hours after injury.
I think they had 50 plus people in the study and they're all about 20 years old. Now in that, they found a significant reduction in the number of days of recovery by about half. So the group that did not get the supplement, the typical recovery day was 22 days long. The supplement group, it was cut down to 10. So this was a very, very, very impressive result.
I think they had 50 plus people in the study and they're all about 20 years old. Now in that, they found a significant reduction in the number of days of recovery by about half. So the group that did not get the supplement, the typical recovery day was 22 days long. The supplement group, it was cut down to 10. So this was a very, very, very impressive result.
And so it seems to be a somewhat high reward, low risk option. Additionally, the other B vitamins like B6 and B12 have probably more limited research, but they're really plausible. They're also really safe. They've been studied a lot in a lot of unhealthy or risky populations, and they just don't really have that many negative side effects. So sounds logical to try these ones.
And so it seems to be a somewhat high reward, low risk option. Additionally, the other B vitamins like B6 and B12 have probably more limited research, but they're really plausible. They're also really safe. They've been studied a lot in a lot of unhealthy or risky populations, and they just don't really have that many negative side effects. So sounds logical to try these ones.
There is a little bit of work here, Particularly what I'm thinking of is some rat studies in cases of things like folate deficiency. When that happens, a little bit of a background there, when you are deficient in folate, you have higher levels of what's called homocysteine. Homocysteine is highly associated with additional oxidative stress and a whole host of other negative health cascades.
There is a little bit of work here, Particularly what I'm thinking of is some rat studies in cases of things like folate deficiency. When that happens, a little bit of a background there, when you are deficient in folate, you have higher levels of what's called homocysteine. Homocysteine is highly associated with additional oxidative stress and a whole host of other negative health cascades.
So really high homocysteine is bad news. Homocysteine is often also elevated when B vitamins are too low in general. That alone is associated with neuropathy of TBIs, brain atrophy, cognitive decline with aging, and so on and so forth. And so the clinical trials that have been done in this area where they combine these B vitamins and omega-3s have been shown to reduce homocysteine.
So really high homocysteine is bad news. Homocysteine is often also elevated when B vitamins are too low in general. That alone is associated with neuropathy of TBIs, brain atrophy, cognitive decline with aging, and so on and so forth. And so the clinical trials that have been done in this area where they combine these B vitamins and omega-3s have been shown to reduce homocysteine.
And that has then also been associated with a reduction in cognitive decline. So if you can, pay attention to all those B vitamins, try to get them as high as reasonable, or at least not in those danger areas. Take a look at homocysteine and pay attention to that. And if you do that, that will give those omega-3s a better chance to work more effectively, and you should be in a better spot.
And that has then also been associated with a reduction in cognitive decline. So if you can, pay attention to all those B vitamins, try to get them as high as reasonable, or at least not in those danger areas. Take a look at homocysteine and pay attention to that. And if you do that, that will give those omega-3s a better chance to work more effectively, and you should be in a better spot.
So what's riboflavin look like in terms of supplementation and food? one more time the dosages that have been studied for migraines and headaches and brain health and things like that are 400 milligrams per day one of the studies did that dosage once per day another did it twice per day but those are really really common now you can look all over the internet and you will generally find
So what's riboflavin look like in terms of supplementation and food? one more time the dosages that have been studied for migraines and headaches and brain health and things like that are 400 milligrams per day one of the studies did that dosage once per day another did it twice per day but those are really really common now you can look all over the internet and you will generally find
Every multivitamin has riboflavin, but it's not very much. So multivitamins are not going to be the place you can go to to get enough B2 for this issue. You're going to have to go to companies that make B2 specifically. And in terms of timing, again, you want to take this...
Every multivitamin has riboflavin, but it's not very much. So multivitamins are not going to be the place you can go to to get enough B2 for this issue. You're going to have to go to companies that make B2 specifically. And in terms of timing, again, you want to take this...
after your brain injuries, certainly, but the better option is just to make sure your B status is high enough prior to going in, okay? But if you didn't do that or don't know, you'd want to take this post-injury. Time of day doesn't matter at all. Some people will feel a little bit of an energetic effect, so perhaps earlier in the morning. Others don't, but you might want to consider that.
after your brain injuries, certainly, but the better option is just to make sure your B status is high enough prior to going in, okay? But if you didn't do that or don't know, you'd want to take this post-injury. Time of day doesn't matter at all. Some people will feel a little bit of an energetic effect, so perhaps earlier in the morning. Others don't, but you might want to consider that.
I'm not aware of any risks associated with it, Obviously, everything has some risk of some dosage in some people. But for the most part, there's very little harm here. B vitamins typically don't have many issues if you overconsume them, outside of perhaps wasting your money, I guess, if you want to think about it that way. But there's really very little consequences at reasonable dosages.
I'm not aware of any risks associated with it, Obviously, everything has some risk of some dosage in some people. But for the most part, there's very little harm here. B vitamins typically don't have many issues if you overconsume them, outside of perhaps wasting your money, I guess, if you want to think about it that way. But there's really very little consequences at reasonable dosages.
So you should be okay there. If you want to get this from whole food sources, this is where things like liver come in handy or fortified cereals. Whey protein actually has a decent amount. Beef liver specifically has 3.4 milligrams of riboflavin per 100 grams. Whey protein is about half that. I think it's about two actually. So it's not a terrible source.
So you should be okay there. If you want to get this from whole food sources, this is where things like liver come in handy or fortified cereals. Whey protein actually has a decent amount. Beef liver specifically has 3.4 milligrams of riboflavin per 100 grams. Whey protein is about half that. I think it's about two actually. So it's not a terrible source.
So you can run the math very similar to how we just did it before. I won't drag you through it again. But if you have to eat something like 15 times-ish, the amount of the serving size I just listed, to get to that 400 milligrams per day, that's going to be a pound, a pound and a half. Sorry, a kilo or a kilo and a half of beef liver per day.
So you can run the math very similar to how we just did it before. I won't drag you through it again. But if you have to eat something like 15 times-ish, the amount of the serving size I just listed, to get to that 400 milligrams per day, that's going to be a pound, a pound and a half. Sorry, a kilo or a kilo and a half of beef liver per day.
So again, theoretically possible, but just pretty unlikely or pretty unrealistic for most people to get these at this dosage through just food. Now remember, these are not daily amounts you have to take. We're talking about the dosages specifically for a brain injury. And so it's actually not that crazy to think you're taking it if you've experienced something like this.
So again, theoretically possible, but just pretty unlikely or pretty unrealistic for most people to get these at this dosage through just food. Now remember, these are not daily amounts you have to take. We're talking about the dosages specifically for a brain injury. And so it's actually not that crazy to think you're taking it if you've experienced something like this.
It's not something that you need to do every day your entire life. Next on our list is choline. Now this has a handful of functions. First, it's helpful in preserving that blood brain barrier. because it wards off membrane breakdown. It's critical to that cell membrane, so it has a handful of effects there.
It's not something that you need to do every day your entire life. Next on our list is choline. Now this has a handful of functions. First, it's helpful in preserving that blood brain barrier. because it wards off membrane breakdown. It's critical to that cell membrane, so it has a handful of effects there.
The second big thing it does is it is the primary precursor to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. You may remember that acetylcholine is the primary neurotransmitter. It's the signal, the molecular signal that goes from one neuron to the next that activates it. We talked about this in a little more detail in a previous episode on muscle. So you can go back to that to learn more.
The second big thing it does is it is the primary precursor to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. You may remember that acetylcholine is the primary neurotransmitter. It's the signal, the molecular signal that goes from one neuron to the next that activates it. We talked about this in a little more detail in a previous episode on muscle. So you can go back to that to learn more.
But the third thing it does, it is a precursor to that important antioxidant glutathione. So a handful of functions here, both structural, damage, cellular communication and activation, as well as antioxidant.
But the third thing it does, it is a precursor to that important antioxidant glutathione. So a handful of functions here, both structural, damage, cellular communication and activation, as well as antioxidant.
We also know from a lot of research in the area of brain aging, dementia, Alzheimer's and so forth, that higher dietary intake of choline is strongly associated with decreases in several biomarkers that are associated with that Alzheimer's, dementia and other risk factors. So from a dietary perspective,
We also know from a lot of research in the area of brain aging, dementia, Alzheimer's and so forth, that higher dietary intake of choline is strongly associated with decreases in several biomarkers that are associated with that Alzheimer's, dementia and other risk factors. So from a dietary perspective,
from a molecular and mechanistic perspective, is starting to line up as a pretty important molecule for both TBI as well as long-term brain health. To summarize the collective evidence, it is well tolerated and safe. It's plausibly helpful, like I just described. And there's even some minor benefits in both physiological and cognitive domains following head trauma.
from a molecular and mechanistic perspective, is starting to line up as a pretty important molecule for both TBI as well as long-term brain health. To summarize the collective evidence, it is well tolerated and safe. It's plausibly helpful, like I just described. And there's even some minor benefits in both physiological and cognitive domains following head trauma.
The most common form of choline in the research is what's called acetylcholine or CDP choline, as you'll see it sometimes. And it's been tested in multiple TBI randomized controlled trials. In fact, a recent meta-analysis indicated that there's about a 20% likelihood of success or effectiveness with acetylcholine for TBI treatment. So it's not perfect, but 20% is pretty good, in my opinion.
The most common form of choline in the research is what's called acetylcholine or CDP choline, as you'll see it sometimes. And it's been tested in multiple TBI randomized controlled trials. In fact, a recent meta-analysis indicated that there's about a 20% likelihood of success or effectiveness with acetylcholine for TBI treatment. So it's not perfect, but 20% is pretty good, in my opinion.
Getting into the research just a little bit further, there's a handful of animal and human studies that are worth talking about at a very high level. The animal research looked at 100 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day, and I'm bringing up those numbers intentionally. I want to put some context behind that, honestly, because I've just heard people misinterpret this paper a lot.
Getting into the research just a little bit further, there's a handful of animal and human studies that are worth talking about at a very high level. The animal research looked at 100 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day, and I'm bringing up those numbers intentionally. I want to put some context behind that, honestly, because I've just heard people misinterpret this paper a lot.
So 100 milligrams per kilogram per day immediately after an injury, which resulted in significant improvements in what's called spatial memory performance. Now, you can't simply equate body weight here to humans. You'll get an absurd number that won't make sense. It doesn't actually work that way for details we don't want to talk about now.
So 100 milligrams per kilogram per day immediately after an injury, which resulted in significant improvements in what's called spatial memory performance. Now, you can't simply equate body weight here to humans. You'll get an absurd number that won't make sense. It doesn't actually work that way for details we don't want to talk about now.
But what this would equate to is something like 60 to 70 milligrams per kilogram in humans. And that is high. It's about three to five times the dosages used in human research, but it's not impossible either. So I do want to acknowledge that those numbers are, again, high, but it's not completely crazy either.
But what this would equate to is something like 60 to 70 milligrams per kilogram in humans. And that is high. It's about three to five times the dosages used in human research, but it's not impossible either. So I do want to acknowledge that those numbers are, again, high, but it's not completely crazy either.
In fact, some of the studies at 250 milligrams helped with the blood-brain barrier breakdown and edema were largely reduced in those trials and also had benefits in hippocampal neuronal death, for the seven days following injury. So pretty good mechanisms from the rat studies. In terms of the human, you will see that the studies are mixed, okay?
In fact, some of the studies at 250 milligrams helped with the blood-brain barrier breakdown and edema were largely reduced in those trials and also had benefits in hippocampal neuronal death, for the seven days following injury. So pretty good mechanisms from the rat studies. In terms of the human, you will see that the studies are mixed, okay?
One gram per day for 30 days has been found in at least mild TBI to produce statistically significant improvements in recognition memory, which is obviously an important downstream behavioral problem that's associated with TBIs. And that study was actually repeated about 20 years after the initial one. And they used a pretty similar protocol design and found actually no difference in TBI symptoms.
One gram per day for 30 days has been found in at least mild TBI to produce statistically significant improvements in recognition memory, which is obviously an important downstream behavioral problem that's associated with TBIs. And that study was actually repeated about 20 years after the initial one. And they used a pretty similar protocol design and found actually no difference in TBI symptoms.
I think it was headaches, sleepiness, dizziness, and concentration and things like that. However, what's really important to note here is in this study, the majority of the participants had really minor TBIs, meaning their cholinergic pathways were probably not affected. This is a classic case of something I warned out at the beginning or earlier in our conversation.
I think it was headaches, sleepiness, dizziness, and concentration and things like that. However, what's really important to note here is in this study, the majority of the participants had really minor TBIs, meaning their cholinergic pathways were probably not affected. This is a classic case of something I warned out at the beginning or earlier in our conversation.
If you're not actually giving a supplement or taking a food that the mechanism of effect is not the mechanism of injury, then you shouldn't expect a benefit. So I think this is really a case of that.
If you're not actually giving a supplement or taking a food that the mechanism of effect is not the mechanism of injury, then you shouldn't expect a benefit. So I think this is really a case of that.
I actually do feel like the strength of the evidence for choline is okay and reasonable, but that 2023 follow-up study to me is not an indication that the original study was flawed or didn't work, but simply you had mild... injuries that didn't result in damage to that pathway. So the supplement provided very limited or mixed benefits.
I actually do feel like the strength of the evidence for choline is okay and reasonable, but that 2023 follow-up study to me is not an indication that the original study was flawed or didn't work, but simply you had mild... injuries that didn't result in damage to that pathway. So the supplement provided very limited or mixed benefits.
In addition, I know of two meta-analyses that reported generally positive benefits here, regardless of TBI severity. So that's some more information on positive benefit. And the probably landmark study in this area came out fairly recently. It was called the COBRIT study. I think it stands for like cytokoline brain injury treatment trial.
In addition, I know of two meta-analyses that reported generally positive benefits here, regardless of TBI severity. So that's some more information on positive benefit. And the probably landmark study in this area came out fairly recently. It was called the COBRIT study. I think it stands for like cytokoline brain injury treatment trial.
You know how scientists always like to make these acronyms for our big studies. Again, honestly, I feel like this is being misinterpreted in my opinion. And so I want to touch on this just really briefly. But in that, they found no evidence of benefit for cognitive function or cognitive status 90 days post-injury with two grams a day of acetylcholine.
You know how scientists always like to make these acronyms for our big studies. Again, honestly, I feel like this is being misinterpreted in my opinion. And so I want to touch on this just really briefly. But in that, they found no evidence of benefit for cognitive function or cognitive status 90 days post-injury with two grams a day of acetylcholine.
Now, a lot of people have used that to say, we told you it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and that's fine. People can interpret how they will. My personal opinion on this study, though, is that it's highly flawed. And I'm saying that because in it, they considered adherence to be 75%, meaning if the people in the study took their acetylcholine 75% of the time, they were considered to be adherent.
Now, a lot of people have used that to say, we told you it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and that's fine. People can interpret how they will. My personal opinion on this study, though, is that it's highly flawed. And I'm saying that because in it, they considered adherence to be 75%, meaning if the people in the study took their acetylcholine 75% of the time, they were considered to be adherent.
Only 44% of their participants met that 75% mark. 40% were considered to be non-adherent. So that means they took it less than 75%. And the rest, they don't even know. So for me, it's hard to suggest that it didn't work when the vast majority of people didn't actually take it most of the time, and those that did was still only 75% of the time.
Only 44% of their participants met that 75% mark. 40% were considered to be non-adherent. So that means they took it less than 75%. And the rest, they don't even know. So for me, it's hard to suggest that it didn't work when the vast majority of people didn't actually take it most of the time, and those that did was still only 75% of the time.
So, cool study, helped add a lot of information, in my opinion, to the database, but I don't think it should be interpreted as saying that choline then therefore doesn't work, or it's a myth, or any of those other more extreme interpretations of these data.
So, cool study, helped add a lot of information, in my opinion, to the database, but I don't think it should be interpreted as saying that choline then therefore doesn't work, or it's a myth, or any of those other more extreme interpretations of these data.
More directly for the context of our show today, been done on football players where brain choline, specifically in the primary motor cortex, is known to diminish across the season, similar to what we saw earlier with creatine. Probably as a result of those continuous head impacts, so it couldn't be inferred directly from this study, but pretty easy to make a guess that's likely scenario.
More directly for the context of our show today, been done on football players where brain choline, specifically in the primary motor cortex, is known to diminish across the season, similar to what we saw earlier with creatine. Probably as a result of those continuous head impacts, so it couldn't be inferred directly from this study, but pretty easy to make a guess that's likely scenario.
And this actually may contribute to that second impact syndrome and accumulation of damage. So, Similar idea here as creatine, to me, pretty strong case. So based on the different study designs, mixed results, and other limitations, the SOE for choline lands at a three. So what are we looking at in terms of food and supplements? Well, first of all,
And this actually may contribute to that second impact syndrome and accumulation of damage. So, Similar idea here as creatine, to me, pretty strong case. So based on the different study designs, mixed results, and other limitations, the SOE for choline lands at a three. So what are we looking at in terms of food and supplements? Well, first of all,
you're not going to find choline supplements on their own very commonly. It's almost always going to be in the form of what's called alpha GPC or in the more direct version of phosphatidylcholine. Now, alpha GPC is immediately metabolized into phosphatidylcholine or PC. once you orally ingest it. So you can think of these as similar products.
you're not going to find choline supplements on their own very commonly. It's almost always going to be in the form of what's called alpha GPC or in the more direct version of phosphatidylcholine. Now, alpha GPC is immediately metabolized into phosphatidylcholine or PC. once you orally ingest it. So you can think of these as similar products.
Many companies make either PC straight or alpha GPC, or have a little bit built into oftentimes like B complexes. Dosages are usually a little bit lower, 20 to 30 milligrams. If you're getting the alpha GPC directly, And Momentous, of course, the sponsor for the show, as well as other companies, generally will make dosages 300 to 400 milligrams per serving.
Many companies make either PC straight or alpha GPC, or have a little bit built into oftentimes like B complexes. Dosages are usually a little bit lower, 20 to 30 milligrams. If you're getting the alpha GPC directly, And Momentous, of course, the sponsor for the show, as well as other companies, generally will make dosages 300 to 400 milligrams per serving.
So you need to take, you know, three or so of those to get to this dosage level. But you will find that fairly commonly. Okay, now, in terms of timing... you probably want to take something like 500 milligrams per day as a daily dosage prophylactically. However, if you've had a direct head injury, this might be the time to ramp up to one to two grams. These generally do have a nootropic effect.
So you need to take, you know, three or so of those to get to this dosage level. But you will find that fairly commonly. Okay, now, in terms of timing... you probably want to take something like 500 milligrams per day as a daily dosage prophylactically. However, if you've had a direct head injury, this might be the time to ramp up to one to two grams. These generally do have a nootropic effect.
And so you would want to take these earlier in the day. So you certainly don't have any problems cognitively or with sleep later on. In terms of food, if you need to get up to that one to two grams after an acute injury, you're probably going to want to use supplementation. But it's quite easy to get to that 500, that baseline prophylactic dosage, straight out of food.
And so you would want to take these earlier in the day. So you certainly don't have any problems cognitively or with sleep later on. In terms of food, if you need to get up to that one to two grams after an acute injury, you're probably going to want to use supplementation. But it's quite easy to get to that 500, that baseline prophylactic dosage, straight out of food.
A couple of eggs and some turkey will almost always get you right there. The most common places to get choline in food are meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy, beans, cruciferous vegetables. Beef liver, for example, has around 400 milligrams per 100 grams of liver. Eggs, it's about 150 milligrams per egg.
A couple of eggs and some turkey will almost always get you right there. The most common places to get choline in food are meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy, beans, cruciferous vegetables. Beef liver, for example, has around 400 milligrams per 100 grams of liver. Eggs, it's about 150 milligrams per egg.
And so you can actually see, all right, three or four eggs in a day gets you really close to that 500 number. Most people, a couple of eggs, a little bit of serving meat, you're going to be right there throughout the day, which again will put you in a pretty good spot. The average person, though, doesn't get enough choline. Typical numbers in men is around 400 milligrams.
And so you can actually see, all right, three or four eggs in a day gets you really close to that 500 number. Most people, a couple of eggs, a little bit of serving meat, you're going to be right there throughout the day, which again will put you in a pretty good spot. The average person, though, doesn't get enough choline. Typical numbers in men is around 400 milligrams.
Women, it's about 300 or so. which is well below the AI or adequate intake, which is 550 for men and 420 or so for women. So you would have to probably do something in the neighborhood of like 12 eggs to get you to that two grams of choline per day. So like I said, Totally fine to get this from food as your normal baseline health strategy.
Women, it's about 300 or so. which is well below the AI or adequate intake, which is 550 for men and 420 or so for women. So you would have to probably do something in the neighborhood of like 12 eggs to get you to that two grams of choline per day. So like I said, Totally fine to get this from food as your normal baseline health strategy.
But if you did want to get those upper dosage with an acute injury, you're probably gonna have an easier time getting a little bit of supplementation rather than trying to eat 14 or 15 eggs in a day. All right, moving on to our next one. We're looking at branched chain amino acids.
But if you did want to get those upper dosage with an acute injury, you're probably gonna have an easier time getting a little bit of supplementation rather than trying to eat 14 or 15 eggs in a day. All right, moving on to our next one. We're looking at branched chain amino acids.
To clarify, when I say BCAAs, I'm almost always talking about three amino acids in particular, isoleucine, leucine, and valine. Now, leucine is the primary driver of muscle growth or muscle protein synthesis, which is why there's so much steam behind BCAAs for muscle growth.
To clarify, when I say BCAAs, I'm almost always talking about three amino acids in particular, isoleucine, leucine, and valine. Now, leucine is the primary driver of muscle growth or muscle protein synthesis, which is why there's so much steam behind BCAAs for muscle growth.
We'll talk about those details later, but in general, if you get enough protein, BCAAs are not really needed for muscle growth. That said, it does something different in the brain. The human data do suggest that the severity of your TBI symptoms correlate well with the degree of BCAA suppression in the brain. Bigger drop in BCAAs, more symptoms. The BCAAs have two big effects.
We'll talk about those details later, but in general, if you get enough protein, BCAAs are not really needed for muscle growth. That said, it does something different in the brain. The human data do suggest that the severity of your TBI symptoms correlate well with the degree of BCAA suppression in the brain. Bigger drop in BCAAs, more symptoms. The BCAAs have two big effects.
One of them is the fact that they are what's called a nitrogen donor. And the other is that they help transportation interference across the blood-brain barrier. So let me walk you through what those mean really quickly, as it's important to understand why they actually work in this case, but perhaps are not so important for muscle growth.
One of them is the fact that they are what's called a nitrogen donor. And the other is that they help transportation interference across the blood-brain barrier. So let me walk you through what those mean really quickly, as it's important to understand why they actually work in this case, but perhaps are not so important for muscle growth.
Now, when I say nitrogen donor, what I mean is they are specifically used as in broken down to give off nitrogen, which can be used for glutamate and GABA. I already talked about glutamate earlier and how that is a primary problem with extreme excitotoxicity. So getting too excited, turning too many neurons on.
Now, when I say nitrogen donor, what I mean is they are specifically used as in broken down to give off nitrogen, which can be used for glutamate and GABA. I already talked about glutamate earlier and how that is a primary problem with extreme excitotoxicity. So getting too excited, turning too many neurons on.
Now, both GABA and glutamate are heavily involved in TBI pathology, like we just talked about. From the transporter perspective, when you eat protein, the amount, or just as food or supplement, the amount of BCAAs in your blood goes up. Makes sense. But a bunch of proteins in your stomach, they get broken down into amino acids. Amino acids in your blood go up.
Now, both GABA and glutamate are heavily involved in TBI pathology, like we just talked about. From the transporter perspective, when you eat protein, the amount, or just as food or supplement, the amount of BCAAs in your blood goes up. Makes sense. But a bunch of proteins in your stomach, they get broken down into amino acids. Amino acids in your blood go up.
If you ate a complete protein, that will come with a bunch of BCAAs. The amount of those go up in your blood. Now, as the BCAA concentration goes up, two molecules called tryptophan and tyrosine. They happen to share the same transporters to get through the blood-brain barrier.
If you ate a complete protein, that will come with a bunch of BCAAs. The amount of those go up in your blood. Now, as the BCAA concentration goes up, two molecules called tryptophan and tyrosine. They happen to share the same transporters to get through the blood-brain barrier.
So if you have this big rise in BCAAs in your blood, the BCAAs will block up those transporters, which means the uptake of tyrosine and tryptophan are blocked. So they're not gonna get across the blood-brain barrier, not gonna get in the brain. So the amount actually in your brain of TNT, tyrosine and tryptophan,
So if you have this big rise in BCAAs in your blood, the BCAAs will block up those transporters, which means the uptake of tyrosine and tryptophan are blocked. So they're not gonna get across the blood-brain barrier, not gonna get in the brain. So the amount actually in your brain of TNT, tyrosine and tryptophan,
What that does is cause problems with things like serotonin because TNT act as precursors for serotonin, which of course is in a precursor for melatonin and various catecholamines. So this could be contributing to the TBI induced sleep problems. And so you can see the basic logic there.
What that does is cause problems with things like serotonin because TNT act as precursors for serotonin, which of course is in a precursor for melatonin and various catecholamines. So this could be contributing to the TBI induced sleep problems. And so you can see the basic logic there.
The current evidence does suggest that actually sleep is not compromised with BCAAs, but actually even potentially improved. I know of actually a study coming to mind right now that looked at 30 grams of BCAAs administered twice per day. found it actually improved insomnia and other latency-related issues. This study, I think, was in veterans with chronic TBI.
The current evidence does suggest that actually sleep is not compromised with BCAAs, but actually even potentially improved. I know of actually a study coming to mind right now that looked at 30 grams of BCAAs administered twice per day. found it actually improved insomnia and other latency-related issues. This study, I think, was in veterans with chronic TBI.
And so we know some about the mechanisms that I just outlined. It has a potential to be influencing some of our sleep-related problems, and it seems to be causing a positive and beneficial effect for sleep, which is a huge concern and one of the biggest symptoms associated with a brain injury. The SOE on BCAAs is surprisingly a 2. Remember, 1 is best, 5 is worst on this scoring.
And so we know some about the mechanisms that I just outlined. It has a potential to be influencing some of our sleep-related problems, and it seems to be causing a positive and beneficial effect for sleep, which is a huge concern and one of the biggest symptoms associated with a brain injury. The SOE on BCAAs is surprisingly a 2. Remember, 1 is best, 5 is worst on this scoring.
So the data are actually pretty strong here. It is pretty clear that it works as much as we can define work. There is extensive evidence in post-impact for both mild and severe TBIs. The benefits range from cognitive deficits, so reductions in cognitive deficits,
So the data are actually pretty strong here. It is pretty clear that it works as much as we can define work. There is extensive evidence in post-impact for both mild and severe TBIs. The benefits range from cognitive deficits, so reductions in cognitive deficits,
what I just described, some of these sleep-wake abnormalities, with the main effects probably being correction of that excitotoxicity issue and some of the GABA and other glutamate problems that we have just described. Probably the most famous study in this area is called the HIT Heads Trial. I believe this came out in 2024, actually, so pretty recent. It was a pilot randomized controlled trial.
what I just described, some of these sleep-wake abnormalities, with the main effects probably being correction of that excitotoxicity issue and some of the GABA and other glutamate problems that we have just described. Probably the most famous study in this area is called the HIT Heads Trial. I believe this came out in 2024, actually, so pretty recent. It was a pilot randomized controlled trial.
They had, I think, like 10 to 35-year-olds in there, so teens, preteens, all the way up to normal age. And they followed them for three weeks or 21 days post-injury. And this was really cool. They had, I think, five arms in this study. So some of the participants just got a placebo. And then they broke up the rest of the intervention by dosage. So they got 15 grams a day, 30 grams, 45, or even 54.
They had, I think, like 10 to 35-year-olds in there, so teens, preteens, all the way up to normal age. And they followed them for three weeks or 21 days post-injury. And this was really cool. They had, I think, five arms in this study. So some of the participants just got a placebo. And then they broke up the rest of the intervention by dosage. So they got 15 grams a day, 30 grams, 45, or even 54.
I'm not sure why it's only 55. But they wanted to see, is there an effect at all compared to placebo? And if there is, what's the optimal dosage? And they gave them five different dosages from low dose to more moderate to pretty high and scaled all the way up. And one of the things that they found was a pretty clear dose response such that the most improvements were found in that 54 grams per day.
I'm not sure why it's only 55. But they wanted to see, is there an effect at all compared to placebo? And if there is, what's the optimal dosage? And they gave them five different dosages from low dose to more moderate to pretty high and scaled all the way up. And one of the things that they found was a pretty clear dose response such that the most improvements were found in that 54 grams per day.
decreased symptoms of concussions, faster and better return to baseline. There were not benefits actually in what was called processing speed. So that had been shown in some of the earlier studies we talked about, but they didn't find that here for whatever reason. But they had all those other benefits.
decreased symptoms of concussions, faster and better return to baseline. There were not benefits actually in what was called processing speed. So that had been shown in some of the earlier studies we talked about, but they didn't find that here for whatever reason. But they had all those other benefits.
One more time, highlights the fact that not every supplement, not every food, not every nutrient fixes every problem. Okay, so benefits here in the concussion symptoms, but not necessarily the processing speed. But the effects one more time were dose dependent. And one more time, like we keep bringing up, there was no adverse effects reported.
One more time, highlights the fact that not every supplement, not every food, not every nutrient fixes every problem. Okay, so benefits here in the concussion symptoms, but not necessarily the processing speed. But the effects one more time were dose dependent. And one more time, like we keep bringing up, there was no adverse effects reported.
The data that we currently have suggests up to 55 or 54 grams per day, more specifically, is a dosage. You would want to make sure you're at that higher dosage past injury. You can be at a much smaller one. Just honestly make sure your protein intake is high enough. You can use whatever number you like. We've talked many times, though.
The data that we currently have suggests up to 55 or 54 grams per day, more specifically, is a dosage. You would want to make sure you're at that higher dosage past injury. You can be at a much smaller one. Just honestly make sure your protein intake is high enough. You can use whatever number you like. We've talked many times, though.
I personally like one gram of protein per pound of body weight. If you're at that, you're probably getting enough BCAAs at baseline, and then we would go to only this higher dose post-brain injury. To break this down food-wise... BCAAs, it's protein, it's dairy products, it's meat and poultry. Most meat's gonna be three to four grams of BCAAs per 100 grams of serving.
I personally like one gram of protein per pound of body weight. If you're at that, you're probably getting enough BCAAs at baseline, and then we would go to only this higher dose post-brain injury. To break this down food-wise... BCAAs, it's protein, it's dairy products, it's meat and poultry. Most meat's gonna be three to four grams of BCAAs per 100 grams of serving.
And so similar math that we've done before, okay? This is gonna result in you having to have like 40 or 50 ounces of meat per day. Not something you need baseline, but in these small cases, again, I don't want you to feel like I'm pushing you to supplements, but it is just significantly easier here for small times and for specific scenarios of a brain injury to go to supplementation here.
And so similar math that we've done before, okay? This is gonna result in you having to have like 40 or 50 ounces of meat per day. Not something you need baseline, but in these small cases, again, I don't want you to feel like I'm pushing you to supplements, but it is just significantly easier here for small times and for specific scenarios of a brain injury to go to supplementation here.
Our next micronutrient is magnesium. Oh my goodness, could I go on and on and on about the physiological benefits of magnesium. It is involved in well over 600 reactions in your body from cell signaling, vascular function, ATP production, protein synthesis, neuroplasticity, learning, memory, and I could basically think of anything that happens in your body and magnesium's central to that.
Our next micronutrient is magnesium. Oh my goodness, could I go on and on and on about the physiological benefits of magnesium. It is involved in well over 600 reactions in your body from cell signaling, vascular function, ATP production, protein synthesis, neuroplasticity, learning, memory, and I could basically think of anything that happens in your body and magnesium's central to that.
I don't have to draw this out then. It's pretty easy for you to assume this is going to be an important role in your brain pre and post-injury.
I don't have to draw this out then. It's pretty easy for you to assume this is going to be an important role in your brain pre and post-injury.
We also have very strong data if you are deficient in magnesium, you have associations with a host of comorbidities, health conditions, type two diabetes, metabolic syndrome, hypertension, headaches is another common one, migraines, heart disease, so on and so forth. We know that it probably inhibits receptors that are directly targets
We also have very strong data if you are deficient in magnesium, you have associations with a host of comorbidities, health conditions, type two diabetes, metabolic syndrome, hypertension, headaches is another common one, migraines, heart disease, so on and so forth. We know that it probably inhibits receptors that are directly targets
of antidepressants as well, and is a strong contributor to that brain excitotoxicity after injury. So you do not want to be deficient in magnesium. You can listen to, read almost anything in the sports performance realm, and you will see magnesium as a top tier supplementation. It is really robust and a strong line of evidence and recommended by, again, many people in this field.
of antidepressants as well, and is a strong contributor to that brain excitotoxicity after injury. So you do not want to be deficient in magnesium. You can listen to, read almost anything in the sports performance realm, and you will see magnesium as a top tier supplementation. It is really robust and a strong line of evidence and recommended by, again, many people in this field.
But surprisingly, the SOE is only three here. There's a well-documented drop in magnesium, especially in your central neurons after a TBI. And the extent of that drop is associated with the severity of the injury and the level of behavioral disturbances. So not only the injury, but your symptoms as well. Animal and human research here from the animals, it's associated with edema.
But surprisingly, the SOE is only three here. There's a well-documented drop in magnesium, especially in your central neurons after a TBI. And the extent of that drop is associated with the severity of the injury and the level of behavioral disturbances. So not only the injury, but your symptoms as well. Animal and human research here from the animals, it's associated with edema.
brain and blood concentrations, calcium problems, like we talked about earlier. These are going to result in those behavioral modifications, memory, cognitive function, spatial and working memory, and so on and so forth. From the actual human stuff, Couple of studies that are worth drawing attention to here.
brain and blood concentrations, calcium problems, like we talked about earlier. These are going to result in those behavioral modifications, memory, cognitive function, spatial and working memory, and so on and so forth. From the actual human stuff, Couple of studies that are worth drawing attention to here.
One looked at acute TBIs in kids and saw a significant reduction in post-concussion severity scores 48 hours after the injury when they used 400 milligrams of magnesium twice per day. Now, another study used a similar design and didn't find a benefit, but this was actually using magnesium from an IV for five days.
One looked at acute TBIs in kids and saw a significant reduction in post-concussion severity scores 48 hours after the injury when they used 400 milligrams of magnesium twice per day. Now, another study used a similar design and didn't find a benefit, but this was actually using magnesium from an IV for five days.
Now, no one really actually knows why this one trial worked and the other one didn't. The obvious thought is maybe there's something that happens when you ingest it through your stomach that aids in digestion or makes it more bioavailable. But when you took it with the IV, it didn't. To me, that's honestly not a great answer. But I don't have any other reason to think that that happened.
Now, no one really actually knows why this one trial worked and the other one didn't. The obvious thought is maybe there's something that happens when you ingest it through your stomach that aids in digestion or makes it more bioavailable. But when you took it with the IV, it didn't. To me, that's honestly not a great answer. But I don't have any other reason to think that that happened.
So really honestly, to summarize here, it is very, very safe. It's very little harm. It has so many other health and performance related benefits. There's so many health consequences that are associated with magnesium deficiency. It helps with symptoms and behaviors that are hallmarks of TBI, like we've talked about.
So really honestly, to summarize here, it is very, very safe. It's very little harm. It has so many other health and performance related benefits. There's so many health consequences that are associated with magnesium deficiency. It helps with symptoms and behaviors that are hallmarks of TBI, like we've talked about.
So I know the SOE is technically three, but personally it's about as high on the list as I could think one supplement could be. The dosages we described one more time, 400 milligrams per day. The timing doesn't matter. You'll want to have some in there pre as well as post injury, and you could take it at any point in the day.
So I know the SOE is technically three, but personally it's about as high on the list as I could think one supplement could be. The dosages we described one more time, 400 milligrams per day. The timing doesn't matter. You'll want to have some in there pre as well as post injury, and you could take it at any point in the day.
Now, depending on the type or form that you use, you might want to take it later in the evening. Some people report, and depending on the type, magnesium helps you fall asleep. I personally feel no effect at all, but most people do. I still then take my magnesium at night just because, just in case. There's all kinds of forms.
Now, depending on the type or form that you use, you might want to take it later in the evening. Some people report, and depending on the type, magnesium helps you fall asleep. I personally feel no effect at all, but most people do. I still then take my magnesium at night just because, just in case. There's all kinds of forms.
You've heard of magnesium threonate at this point, bisglycinate, malate. And right now, I don't know of any compelling evidence to suggest one of those forms is any better than another. Obviously, magnesium threonate has become more popular recently. And that may turn out to be more effective. It may not. I'm not sure. There's just not enough data for us to have really an answer at this point.
You've heard of magnesium threonate at this point, bisglycinate, malate. And right now, I don't know of any compelling evidence to suggest one of those forms is any better than another. Obviously, magnesium threonate has become more popular recently. And that may turn out to be more effective. It may not. I'm not sure. There's just not enough data for us to have really an answer at this point.
And so you can take whatever form sits best with you. The obvious risks associated with magnesium are the GI distress. Bisglycinate, malate, threonate are generally pretty well handled. And so you shouldn't have too many issues with it. If you want to get it strictly from food, you're looking now at things like pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, almonds, and spinach.
And so you can take whatever form sits best with you. The obvious risks associated with magnesium are the GI distress. Bisglycinate, malate, threonate are generally pretty well handled. And so you shouldn't have too many issues with it. If you want to get it strictly from food, you're looking now at things like pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, almonds, and spinach.
Typically, I think pumpkin seeds are about the highest you'll find. They've got around 200 milligrams of magnesium per 100 grams roasted. Again, you can do some math there and realize, all right, that's at least 200 grams of roasted pumpkin seeds I'd have to get to get to my 400 milligrams, which is honestly quite a lot. Not impossible.
Typically, I think pumpkin seeds are about the highest you'll find. They've got around 200 milligrams of magnesium per 100 grams roasted. Again, you can do some math there and realize, all right, that's at least 200 grams of roasted pumpkin seeds I'd have to get to get to my 400 milligrams, which is honestly quite a lot. Not impossible.
Some people eat tons of almonds and spinach and things like that, especially vegetarians and vegans. But it is quite a bit, given how cheap, effective, and easy to handle, and how many other things are benefited. Magnesium is a supplement. We use it pretty commonly. Our final food item to discuss is what's called anthocyanins. Now, these come almost always from blueberries.
Some people eat tons of almonds and spinach and things like that, especially vegetarians and vegans. But it is quite a bit, given how cheap, effective, and easy to handle, and how many other things are benefited. Magnesium is a supplement. We use it pretty commonly. Our final food item to discuss is what's called anthocyanins. Now, these come almost always from blueberries.
So, henceforward, I'll call these blueberry anthos. That's how I refer to it. Now, these are phytochemicals in the flavonoid family. There's over 700 known anthocyanins. and we're honestly basically just learning about this stuff. So we have a ton of improvements needed, a ton more analysis and understanding of mechanisms and so on and so forth, but there's enough here to go on at this point.
So, henceforward, I'll call these blueberry anthos. That's how I refer to it. Now, these are phytochemicals in the flavonoid family. There's over 700 known anthocyanins. and we're honestly basically just learning about this stuff. So we have a ton of improvements needed, a ton more analysis and understanding of mechanisms and so on and so forth, but there's enough here to go on at this point.
We know that anthos are involved in cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, cancers, visions, skin health, inflammation, neurodegenerative disorders, and probably 50 more things. Really ubiquitous, really robust, and critical to a bunch of human functions. TBI specifically?
We know that anthos are involved in cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, cancers, visions, skin health, inflammation, neurodegenerative disorders, and probably 50 more things. Really ubiquitous, really robust, and critical to a bunch of human functions. TBI specifically?
Animal research here, blueberry supplements or blueberry extracts post-injury have been shown to improve what's called brain-derived neurotropic factor, or what you may have heard of as BDNF, which is inversely correlated with indirect markers of memory, performance, and cognition. Now, a similar study has found that blueberries also protect against oxidative stress, which makes a ton of sense.
Animal research here, blueberry supplements or blueberry extracts post-injury have been shown to improve what's called brain-derived neurotropic factor, or what you may have heard of as BDNF, which is inversely correlated with indirect markers of memory, performance, and cognition. Now, a similar study has found that blueberries also protect against oxidative stress, which makes a ton of sense.
You've all probably heard about the antioxidant properties associated with blueberries and blueberry extracts. So this is no surprise for most people. The SOE for Anthos is a three. And in terms of human data, I don't think there's a single RCT, randomized controlled trial, that exists for blueberries and TBI at this point.
You've all probably heard about the antioxidant properties associated with blueberries and blueberry extracts. So this is no surprise for most people. The SOE for Anthos is a three. And in terms of human data, I don't think there's a single RCT, randomized controlled trial, that exists for blueberries and TBI at this point.
That said, there have been studies, many RCTs, some in fact that range from developmental to aging to clinical populations, on brain health. And so this is a classic example of where we can infer some things from general brain health over to TBI at a pretty low risk, high reward possibility. The collective evidence indicates that it does help with attention, memory, executive function.
That said, there have been studies, many RCTs, some in fact that range from developmental to aging to clinical populations, on brain health. And so this is a classic example of where we can infer some things from general brain health over to TBI at a pretty low risk, high reward possibility. The collective evidence indicates that it does help with attention, memory, executive function.
There's a lot of evidence. Specifically, we use a handful of papers that have been done looking at blueberries prior to golf and enhancing brain performance in sport context. So there's a lot out there. We know it works, but we also know we're missing a lot of the details because of what I just described earlier. It's pretty new. A couple of examples.
There's a lot of evidence. Specifically, we use a handful of papers that have been done looking at blueberries prior to golf and enhancing brain performance in sport context. So there's a lot out there. We know it works, but we also know we're missing a lot of the details because of what I just described earlier. It's pretty new. A couple of examples.
One study in kids in particular looked at 15 or 30 grams of freeze-dried wild blueberries and saw significant improvements in cognitive function in a dose-dependent fashion. The more blueberries, the better.
One study in kids in particular looked at 15 or 30 grams of freeze-dried wild blueberries and saw significant improvements in cognitive function in a dose-dependent fashion. The more blueberries, the better.
Other work has been done in older adults looking at things like 100 milligrams blueberry extracts and seeing better episodic memory performance, reduced cardiovascular disease, and so on and so forth. So what this would look like from a whole food source to get something like 500 milligrams Of the Anthos, you need 100 grams of blueberries, which is, I think, a cup has 150.
Other work has been done in older adults looking at things like 100 milligrams blueberry extracts and seeing better episodic memory performance, reduced cardiovascular disease, and so on and so forth. So what this would look like from a whole food source to get something like 500 milligrams Of the Anthos, you need 100 grams of blueberries, which is, I think, a cup has 150.
So I'll translate that for you a little bit. You have a cup of blueberries, and you're probably hitting your numbers. It's really that easy. I would actually say that of all the things we've discussed so far today, this is the easiest one to get out of straight food.
So I'll translate that for you a little bit. You have a cup of blueberries, and you're probably hitting your numbers. It's really that easy. I would actually say that of all the things we've discussed so far today, this is the easiest one to get out of straight food.
You will be hard pressed to find a program that ever comes out of myself, our rapid health and performance company, or any other one that I'm associated with that doesn't have a cup of blueberries in it. And it's for these reasons and many more. So it's a pretty easy number to hit, pretty consistent and has a lot of benefits, right? I will also tell you,
You will be hard pressed to find a program that ever comes out of myself, our rapid health and performance company, or any other one that I'm associated with that doesn't have a cup of blueberries in it. And it's for these reasons and many more. So it's a pretty easy number to hit, pretty consistent and has a lot of benefits, right? I will also tell you,
People love to give blueberry olives a credit here, but it's not the only food item that's got the anthos in it. Strawberries, cranberries, they have it too. There's not as much data. I don't actually know if there's any data, but I imagine if they did those studies, you'd probably find the same benefits. So I'm actually not as particular on this one.
People love to give blueberry olives a credit here, but it's not the only food item that's got the anthos in it. Strawberries, cranberries, they have it too. There's not as much data. I don't actually know if there's any data, but I imagine if they did those studies, you'd probably find the same benefits. So I'm actually not as particular on this one.
I don't have evidence to support myself, but I don't think it's that big of a stretch to think the same chemicals in this case that are in blueberries probably also exist in raspberries and strawberries and other similar forms. So we will spread our berries out. But if you want to stick to giving all the love to blueberries, you're not going to hurt my feelings.
I don't have evidence to support myself, but I don't think it's that big of a stretch to think the same chemicals in this case that are in blueberries probably also exist in raspberries and strawberries and other similar forms. So we will spread our berries out. But if you want to stick to giving all the love to blueberries, you're not going to hurt my feelings.
As far as I understand it, that represents all the evidence on food related items one can take for brain health, TBIs and concussions. The only thing I'm aware of that's actually detrimental for brain healing is caffeine. And there's enough evidence here that this is probably pretty bad news when trying to heal from a brain injury. It causes neurovascular constriction, it leads to less blood flow.
As far as I understand it, that represents all the evidence on food related items one can take for brain health, TBIs and concussions. The only thing I'm aware of that's actually detrimental for brain healing is caffeine. And there's enough evidence here that this is probably pretty bad news when trying to heal from a brain injury. It causes neurovascular constriction, it leads to less blood flow.
We know that caffeine consumers are more susceptible to diminished emotional health, bad sleep quality, depression, and somatic symptoms with brain injuries. And so what my recommendation here would be overconsumption. is the problem. Do not over-consume caffeine if you've experienced a brain injury.
We know that caffeine consumers are more susceptible to diminished emotional health, bad sleep quality, depression, and somatic symptoms with brain injuries. And so what my recommendation here would be overconsumption. is the problem. Do not over-consume caffeine if you've experienced a brain injury.
I don't think there's any reason to think caffeine consumption is going to give you more risk to have a brain injury, but if you have one, you want to make sure you're really careful. Ask your doctor, check in there, but that's the only one on our list that we have reason to think that you should avoid. That concludes today's episode on nutrition for brain injury, TBIs, and concussion.
I don't think there's any reason to think caffeine consumption is going to give you more risk to have a brain injury, but if you have one, you want to make sure you're really careful. Ask your doctor, check in there, but that's the only one on our list that we have reason to think that you should avoid. That concludes today's episode on nutrition for brain injury, TBIs, and concussion.
I think it's worth reminding you though that if it's good for preventing and returning faster from a brain injury, it's probably safe to assume it's also good for brain performance as well as long-term health.
I think it's worth reminding you though that if it's good for preventing and returning faster from a brain injury, it's probably safe to assume it's also good for brain performance as well as long-term health.
My goal of today as always was to provide you with a ton of information so that you can be excited, you can learn, you have some things to try, but to also be fair with the state of the data and you can make your decision about what you want to do or not do based upon that.
My goal of today as always was to provide you with a ton of information so that you can be excited, you can learn, you have some things to try, but to also be fair with the state of the data and you can make your decision about what you want to do or not do based upon that.
Given this was episode 10, not only are we done with today's discussion, but we are done with season one of Perform with Dr. Andy Galpin. I can't thank you all for the support. I seriously was overwhelmed with comments from people I know, don't know. It was... blew past my expectations. And so I really just cannot thank you all enough. If you're a new listener, this is maybe your first episode.
Given this was episode 10, not only are we done with today's discussion, but we are done with season one of Perform with Dr. Andy Galpin. I can't thank you all for the support. I seriously was overwhelmed with comments from people I know, don't know. It was... blew past my expectations. And so I really just cannot thank you all enough. If you're a new listener, this is maybe your first episode.
You can go back and check out all previous nine episodes on performpodcast.com. You can check out the notes. You can go to YouTube and you can see the exact sections of a particular video if you're interested in that. And we've made it as easy as possible, hopefully, for you to go straight to the information you're looking for and not spend time on things you are not.
You can go back and check out all previous nine episodes on performpodcast.com. You can check out the notes. You can go to YouTube and you can see the exact sections of a particular video if you're interested in that. And we've made it as easy as possible, hopefully, for you to go straight to the information you're looking for and not spend time on things you are not.
I can also share with you another fun announcement, and that is that Season 2 has officially been confirmed. It's going to be coming out pretty soon. If you want to know more about when that does hit the radio waves, you can stay tuned, of course, on my social media. But also, I would recommend signing up for our newsletter.
I can also share with you another fun announcement, and that is that Season 2 has officially been confirmed. It's going to be coming out pretty soon. If you want to know more about when that does hit the radio waves, you can stay tuned, of course, on my social media. But also, I would recommend signing up for our newsletter.
Finishing us off here, I cannot conclude this season without some very specific thank yous. First of all, to all the sponsors, it was overwhelming your support. The people jumped on board quickly and were really, really helpful. So this show would not have existed without them. So I know ad reads are a thing, but please do me a solid.
Finishing us off here, I cannot conclude this season without some very specific thank yous. First of all, to all the sponsors, it was overwhelming your support. The people jumped on board quickly and were really, really helpful. So this show would not have existed without them. So I know ad reads are a thing, but please do me a solid.
If you enjoyed any part of any of the episodes of the season, go check out the sponsors. They really are phenomenal products. I got to thank my special man, Vindog. You know who you are. Helped me a ton in preparing for this. He's not the front of the camera kind of guy, so appreciate it, Vince.
If you enjoyed any part of any of the episodes of the season, go check out the sponsors. They really are phenomenal products. I got to thank my special man, Vindog. You know who you are. Helped me a ton in preparing for this. He's not the front of the camera kind of guy, so appreciate it, Vince.
Natasha, of course, my wife, super, super supportive and all the time it spent to come up here and get this stuff done. My students, former and past and current, could not have done any of the stuff that allowed me to be up here without all of your support and truly doing all the work in the lab.
Natasha, of course, my wife, super, super supportive and all the time it spent to come up here and get this stuff done. My students, former and past and current, could not have done any of the stuff that allowed me to be up here without all of your support and truly doing all the work in the lab.
Same thing for all of my colleagues and fellow scientists whom helped me directly with this show or indirectly, and that I stole your research or read it at least and was able to have information to share with people. So science is not easy. And a lot of times people don't get the credit for it. And I thank you all for your contribution.
Same thing for all of my colleagues and fellow scientists whom helped me directly with this show or indirectly, and that I stole your research or read it at least and was able to have information to share with people. So science is not easy. And a lot of times people don't get the credit for it. And I thank you all for your contribution.
All of my teammates and colleagues at my companies, Rapid, Health and Performance, Biomolecular Athlete, Absolute Rest, and Vitality. Again, tons and tons of support for everyone. So I appreciate that. And then finally, of course, my man here, my boys here at SciComm. And of course, Dr. Andrew Huberman. Love you all. Super appreciative of it. Thank you all so much for joining on this ride.
All of my teammates and colleagues at my companies, Rapid, Health and Performance, Biomolecular Athlete, Absolute Rest, and Vitality. Again, tons and tons of support for everyone. So I appreciate that. And then finally, of course, my man here, my boys here at SciComm. And of course, Dr. Andrew Huberman. Love you all. Super appreciative of it. Thank you all so much for joining on this ride.
And I'll see you next season. Thank you for joining for today's episode. Our goal is to share exciting scientific insight that helps you perform at your absolute best. If the show resonates with you and you want to help ensure this information remains free and accessible to anyone in the world, there are a few ways that you can support.
And I'll see you next season. Thank you for joining for today's episode. Our goal is to share exciting scientific insight that helps you perform at your absolute best. If the show resonates with you and you want to help ensure this information remains free and accessible to anyone in the world, there are a few ways that you can support.
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First, you can subscribe to the show on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple. And on Apple and Spotify, you can leave up to a five-star review. Given that we're a new podcast, subscribing and leaving a review really does help us a lot. Second, please check out our sponsors. The show would not exist without them, and they really are exceptional products and services.
And then finally, you can share today's episode with a friend who you think would enjoy it. If you have any content questions or suggestions, please put those in the comment section on YouTube. I really do try to read these and see what you have to say. If you have yet to sign up for our monthly newsletter, you can do so at performpodcast.com.
And then finally, you can share today's episode with a friend who you think would enjoy it. If you have any content questions or suggestions, please put those in the comment section on YouTube. I really do try to read these and see what you have to say. If you have yet to sign up for our monthly newsletter, you can do so at performpodcast.com.
Our newsletter provides episode summaries with the key takeaways for each and every episode of the podcast. This includes topics like how to improve your VO2 max, how to build muscle mass and muscle strength, how to optimize your sleep for high performance, and much more. To sign up, just go to performpodcast.com, click Newsletter at the top of the screen, and then enter your email address.
Our newsletter provides episode summaries with the key takeaways for each and every episode of the podcast. This includes topics like how to improve your VO2 max, how to build muscle mass and muscle strength, how to optimize your sleep for high performance, and much more. To sign up, just go to performpodcast.com, click Newsletter at the top of the screen, and then enter your email address.
Once you sign up, you receive access to all of our newsletters. I use my Instagram and Twitter also exclusively for scientific communication. So those are great places to follow along for more learning. My handle is DrAndyGalpin on both platforms. Thank you for listening. And never forget, in the famous words of Bill Bowerman, if you have a body, you're an athlete.
Once you sign up, you receive access to all of our newsletters. I use my Instagram and Twitter also exclusively for scientific communication. So those are great places to follow along for more learning. My handle is DrAndyGalpin on both platforms. Thank you for listening. And never forget, in the famous words of Bill Bowerman, if you have a body, you're an athlete.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You want to gain more muscle. You want to have more energy. You want to have more mental focus. Okay, why haven't you done that before? I want to find what is that single thing that stopped you from winning. And that's all I want to work on. Professor of kinesiology. Expert in muscle physiology. Dr. Andy Galpin. What's going to burn more calories? Walking a mile or running a mile? Running a mile.
You want to gain more muscle. You want to have more energy. You want to have more mental focus. Okay, why haven't you done that before? I want to find what is that single thing that stopped you from winning. And that's all I want to work on. Professor of kinesiology. Expert in muscle physiology. Dr. Andy Galpin. What's going to burn more calories? Walking a mile or running a mile? Running a mile.
A calorie is energy. Walking a mile, running a mile, it's the same thing.
A calorie is energy. Walking a mile, running a mile, it's the same thing.
Number one predictor of success with training programs is... The number one health and wellness podcast.
Number one predictor of success with training programs is... The number one health and wellness podcast.
It's a pleasure, man. We have many friends in common. It's about time here.
It's a pleasure, man. We have many friends in common. It's about time here.
There is no specific routine. direction to that. And I know that was like the most deflated answer possible after that enormous setup. But I'm saying that because I actually want to empower people, not the opposite.
There is no specific routine. direction to that. And I know that was like the most deflated answer possible after that enormous setup. But I'm saying that because I actually want to empower people, not the opposite.
Having done this for many years, having taught for a very long time, one thing that is very clear, if you give hyper-specific answers to questions like that, when someone hears that and they go, oh, I can't do that exercise because my knee hurts, or I can't train like that because I fill in the blanks, right? Then they often feel like they can't do anything. And And I hate that.
Having done this for many years, having taught for a very long time, one thing that is very clear, if you give hyper-specific answers to questions like that, when someone hears that and they go, oh, I can't do that exercise because my knee hurts, or I can't train like that because I fill in the blanks, right? Then they often feel like they can't do anything. And And I hate that.
I want to go everyone from zero to two. I want to get somebody to 10, but I want all the wins we can possibly get. And so if you look at that combination of things you said, two very specific things, grow muscle, lose fat. Okay, great. That gives you effectively every option under the table for your fitness routine.
I want to go everyone from zero to two. I want to get somebody to 10, but I want all the wins we can possibly get. And so if you look at that combination of things you said, two very specific things, grow muscle, lose fat. Okay, great. That gives you effectively every option under the table for your fitness routine.
There are some core things that will lay in that foundation though that will be true regardless of your approach. I can hit those very quickly. This is a basic saying that we will, and there's variations of this, but the concepts are few and the methods are many. As long as you hit these next couple of concepts, you can choose all kinds of different methods.
There are some core things that will lay in that foundation though that will be true regardless of your approach. I can hit those very quickly. This is a basic saying that we will, and there's variations of this, but the concepts are few and the methods are many. As long as you hit these next couple of concepts, you can choose all kinds of different methods.
The methods are things like how many days you do it, Do you use kettlebell? Do you run? Do you go outside? Do you use group classes? Those are all methods, methods. They're important. We can get to that detail. But concepts are few. Here's what that's going to look like. Are you doing something consistently?
The methods are things like how many days you do it, Do you use kettlebell? Do you run? Do you go outside? Do you use group classes? Those are all methods, methods. They're important. We can get to that detail. But concepts are few. Here's what that's going to look like. Are you doing something consistently?
If you look across the literature for many years now, the strongest predictor of success with training programs, fitness programs, exercise programs, and nutrition programs, number one predictor of success, short and long term, is adherence. You have to be consistent. I will take a consistent approach,
If you look across the literature for many years now, the strongest predictor of success with training programs, fitness programs, exercise programs, and nutrition programs, number one predictor of success, short and long term, is adherence. You have to be consistent. I will take a consistent approach,
with a suboptimal program, with a bad program, any day of the week for that particular question. So be consistent. Second one is there's got to be some sort of progressive overload. That doesn't mean you have to lift more weights. It doesn't mean you have to train harder or more, but there has to be some sort of intentional progress. That could be done within the day, the week, the month.
with a suboptimal program, with a bad program, any day of the week for that particular question. So be consistent. Second one is there's got to be some sort of progressive overload. That doesn't mean you have to lift more weights. It doesn't mean you have to train harder or more, but there has to be some sort of intentional progress. That could be done within the day, the week, the month.
You get lots of ways to get there, but be consistent and try to keep progressing eventually. Outside of that, we're getting into more nuance. And so now we're thinking about things like you probably want to use really high efficient movements. These are exercise types, movement patterns that have a lot of caloric expenditure with minimal time, right? Most likely I'm inferring from that question,
You get lots of ways to get there, but be consistent and try to keep progressing eventually. Outside of that, we're getting into more nuance. And so now we're thinking about things like you probably want to use really high efficient movements. These are exercise types, movement patterns that have a lot of caloric expenditure with minimal time, right? Most likely I'm inferring from that question,
That person probably doesn't want to spend 20 hours a week in their fitness. And so you want to choose things. This is not typically isolation work. So I wouldn't spend 20 minutes doing bicep specific exercises for that particular person. You got to get a lot of muscles worked and you got to burn a lot of calories.
That person probably doesn't want to spend 20 hours a week in their fitness. And so you want to choose things. This is not typically isolation work. So I wouldn't spend 20 minutes doing bicep specific exercises for that particular person. You got to get a lot of muscles worked and you got to burn a lot of calories.
So this could be a combination of some type of strength training program and some type of cardiovascular program or anything in between. The reality of it though is, I'll reiterate one more time, and because I've done this many, many times personally, this is consistent across the literature. Those two goals can be achieved with no or minimal cardiovascular training.
So this could be a combination of some type of strength training program and some type of cardiovascular program or anything in between. The reality of it though is, I'll reiterate one more time, and because I've done this many, many times personally, this is consistent across the literature. Those two goals can be achieved with no or minimal cardiovascular training.
These can be achieved with very minimal strength training. These can be achieved with body weight training, with any other combination of those things. You have tons of options there. So if that is truly your goal, pick something that's going to give you a little bit of both sides of that equation. Stay safe. Don't get hurt. You still got to work.
These can be achieved with very minimal strength training. These can be achieved with body weight training, with any other combination of those things. You have tons of options there. So if that is truly your goal, pick something that's going to give you a little bit of both sides of that equation. Stay safe. Don't get hurt. You still got to work.
And because this is our third one, there's got to be consistent effort there. So be consistent. Keep doing it. Try to be high productivity with that. And then you got to try. I need a six to seven out of 10 on an effort scale. We'd love to see a little bit more, but I'll live with six. Below six, we may not be having enough actual stimuli to grow muscle or lose weight.
And because this is our third one, there's got to be consistent effort there. So be consistent. Keep doing it. Try to be high productivity with that. And then you got to try. I need a six to seven out of 10 on an effort scale. We'd love to see a little bit more, but I'll live with six. Below six, we may not be having enough actual stimuli to grow muscle or lose weight.
But you give me those three things and most people are going to have a tremendous amount of success.
But you give me those three things and most people are going to have a tremendous amount of success.
Yeah. You know, honestly, I have a hard time when I get questions like that because I want, at home as a listener, when I hear people on podcasts, I'm like, would you just give me like one question? So I'm sensitive to that. But the reality of it is, that's not the most honest answer. It's not the answer scientifically.
Yeah. You know, honestly, I have a hard time when I get questions like that because I want, at home as a listener, when I hear people on podcasts, I'm like, would you just give me like one question? So I'm sensitive to that. But the reality of it is, that's not the most honest answer. It's not the answer scientifically.
And me coaching people now, the people that I personally train, the non-athletes, it's not real. That's not really how I would approach them. So I tried to do my best to give an honest answer. And I know that's not always... as tangible, but it is the honest reality. Yeah.
And me coaching people now, the people that I personally train, the non-athletes, it's not real. That's not really how I would approach them. So I tried to do my best to give an honest answer. And I know that's not always... as tangible, but it is the honest reality. Yeah.
There's a handful of ways. We will always start at the top. Okay, what's our biggest constraint? And that sounds a little bit backwards, but we call these things performance anchors. So you want a goal, right? And I use the soccer example here, football, maybe if you're listening, you want to kick, you want a goal. And there's something in that way. There's a defender, there's a goalie there.
There's a handful of ways. We will always start at the top. Okay, what's our biggest constraint? And that sounds a little bit backwards, but we call these things performance anchors. So you want a goal, right? And I use the soccer example here, football, maybe if you're listening, you want to kick, you want a goal. And there's something in that way. There's a defender, there's a goalie there.
What's your goalie? And I'm saying that to say, is it finances? Is it time? Is it injury? Is it you've never been to the gym before and you're nervous? Because once I know that, the entire path I'm taking is going to be different based on that very first filter. You want to gain more muscle. You want to fill in all those blanks. Okay, why haven't you done that before?
What's your goalie? And I'm saying that to say, is it finances? Is it time? Is it injury? Is it you've never been to the gym before and you're nervous? Because once I know that, the entire path I'm taking is going to be different based on that very first filter. You want to gain more muscle. You want to fill in all those blanks. Okay, why haven't you done that before?
Have you tried in the past and failed? Have you never tried? That's the biggest lever we have to work on. If it is a finance issue, I can't afford gym membership. Okay, got it. Now I'm going to take you on a totally different route. If it is unlimited finance, like, okay, now we're doing next level stuff. If it's somewhere in the middle, we have different answers.
Have you tried in the past and failed? Have you never tried? That's the biggest lever we have to work on. If it is a finance issue, I can't afford gym membership. Okay, got it. Now I'm going to take you on a totally different route. If it is unlimited finance, like, okay, now we're doing next level stuff. If it's somewhere in the middle, we have different answers.
So this could be a combination of saying, identify why you failed in the past or why you've never started. and overcome that barrier and I'm done. I'm gonna stop right there. That'll give me six months, right? In this initial case, in that person you laid out, I'm going back to what I said earlier. Adherence is number one and consistency over time.
So this could be a combination of saying, identify why you failed in the past or why you've never started. and overcome that barrier and I'm done. I'm gonna stop right there. That'll give me six months, right? In this initial case, in that person you laid out, I'm going back to what I said earlier. Adherence is number one and consistency over time.
So I want this first January push, this February push towards fitness, like new year, new me. I want to win. I want wins, wins, wins. I don't care if it's an optimal program. It doesn't necessarily matter. We'll come to those details later, but I want you to have an experience through fitness that went, yeah, that was kind of, it was okay. It wasn't so bad.
So I want this first January push, this February push towards fitness, like new year, new me. I want to win. I want wins, wins, wins. I don't care if it's an optimal program. It doesn't necessarily matter. We'll come to those details later, but I want you to have an experience through fitness that went, yeah, that was kind of, it was okay. It wasn't so bad.
I wasn't super sore and I, okay, now you're a believer. Now I can get that two days a week to three. Now I can get you to invest $50 and get you a kettlebell at home. Okay, great. Like we can start pushing the pace here. If we do the opposite and we get these big, huge charges, That can work if you're an all-in type of person. You, maybe I could get you on that.
I wasn't super sore and I, okay, now you're a believer. Now I can get that two days a week to three. Now I can get you to invest $50 and get you a kettlebell at home. Okay, great. Like we can start pushing the pace here. If we do the opposite and we get these big, huge charges, That can work if you're an all-in type of person. You, maybe I could get you on that.
All right, let's get it personality-wise. But if that's not your personality, oftentimes that is a crash and burn by February or March. And that actually dissuades you probably more from starting again the next time. So for the general population, as an aggregate answer here, I want to find what is that single thing that stopped you from winning? And that's all I want to work on.
All right, let's get it personality-wise. But if that's not your personality, oftentimes that is a crash and burn by February or March. And that actually dissuades you probably more from starting again the next time. So for the general population, as an aggregate answer here, I want to find what is that single thing that stopped you from winning? And that's all I want to work on.
When we program this for our executive clients and all those, we look at the year. And we look at this whole thing and we use what we call a quadrant model. So the quadrant is you get 10 total points and you can choose to spend those 10 total points across four areas, right? So 10 total, not 40 total. Here are your four areas. And we do this practice before they start anything.
When we program this for our executive clients and all those, we look at the year. And we look at this whole thing and we use what we call a quadrant model. So the quadrant is you get 10 total points and you can choose to spend those 10 total points across four areas, right? So 10 total, not 40 total. Here are your four areas. And we do this practice before they start anything.
They don't get a workout before any of this question is answered. We go through this exercise. We lay out their answer. This gets posted on a note card. It goes in their most vulnerable place. This could be their office. Where's the point where it's going to, you were going to work out today and then you didn't. Is that your Netflix TV? Is that the office? Cause you wouldn't stop working.
They don't get a workout before any of this question is answered. We go through this exercise. We lay out their answer. This gets posted on a note card. It goes in their most vulnerable place. This could be their office. Where's the point where it's going to, you were going to work out today and then you didn't. Is that your Netflix TV? Is that the office? Cause you wouldn't stop working.
Is it right? You get held accountable to that and we're going to hold you accountable to that. Here's what the quadrant looks like. Quadrant one is we'll just call it business. Whatever you do for your life and your finances, okay, that's business. Quadrant number two is social, family, relationships, whatever that means to you. Number three is your physical health.
Is it right? You get held accountable to that and we're going to hold you accountable to that. Here's what the quadrant looks like. Quadrant one is we'll just call it business. Whatever you do for your life and your finances, okay, that's business. Quadrant number two is social, family, relationships, whatever that means to you. Number three is your physical health.
Again, these are wide-ranging definitions and everyone gets to define it for themselves. Quadrant number four is recovery. So we start off by asking, and we always do this, and if you want to play along, you're welcome to. This is kind of fun sometimes. Let's do it. Great. Let's do that right now for you. So you got 10 total chips. Let's start with business.
Again, these are wide-ranging definitions and everyone gets to define it for themselves. Quadrant number four is recovery. So we start off by asking, and we always do this, and if you want to play along, you're welcome to. This is kind of fun sometimes. Let's do it. Great. Let's do that right now for you. So you got 10 total chips. Let's start with business.
Of your 10, how many do you want to spend? Let's say this is January and you're going to get kickstarted. Jay, what are you going to put in business?
Of your 10, how many do you want to spend? Let's say this is January and you're going to get kickstarted. Jay, what are you going to put in business?
It's all of it, right? So we intentionally keep it vague. If I say you got life energy.
It's all of it, right? So we intentionally keep it vague. If I say you got life energy.
You got 10. Right. Could be money, could be combination, focus, attention, resources, however that makes sense to you.
You got 10. Right. Could be money, could be combination, focus, attention, resources, however that makes sense to you.
And it's business, family.
And it's business, family.
Great. Yeah. Most common answer is five.
Great. Yeah. Most common answer is five.
By far the most common answer is five. Nobody wants to say six because in their head they go... Haven't got enough left. And no one knows it's not four. Yeah. Right. So we're at five for business. Now let's go on to relationships.
By far the most common answer is five. Nobody wants to say six because in their head they go... Haven't got enough left. And no one knows it's not four. Yeah. Right. So we're at five for business. Now let's go on to relationships.
two okay great we're at seven right how many is your fitness two great now we have an obvious one left yeah a couple of rules we have on this one by the way what you just gave is by far the most common total answer right almost everybody has this problem there's issues with what you just said We never let recovery be less than half of our next highest category.
two okay great we're at seven right how many is your fitness two great now we have an obvious one left yeah a couple of rules we have on this one by the way what you just gave is by far the most common total answer right almost everybody has this problem there's issues with what you just said We never let recovery be less than half of our next highest category.
I'm happy you did two and one, that's great. Most people, recovery end up going to zero. What does recovery mean? It doesn't necessarily mean a massage or a sauna. Fine, that can be it. Recovery can be a night out with friends. Recovery can be, I need alone time. Recovery, tons of ways, but what is the thing that gives you energy back is what we're trying to go after.
I'm happy you did two and one, that's great. Most people, recovery end up going to zero. What does recovery mean? It doesn't necessarily mean a massage or a sauna. Fine, that can be it. Recovery can be a night out with friends. Recovery can be, I need alone time. Recovery, tons of ways, but what is the thing that gives you energy back is what we're trying to go after.
Physical fitness, same sort of thing. There's always overlaps between these things. We will work through you on that one. So that routine you laid out says, fine, okay, you gave me two for physical fitness. I'm going to construct a program now that says this is at most 20% of Jay's energy. If I come then and get you with this program five days a week, I know I've lost already.
Physical fitness, same sort of thing. There's always overlaps between these things. We will work through you on that one. So that routine you laid out says, fine, okay, you gave me two for physical fitness. I'm going to construct a program now that says this is at most 20% of Jay's energy. If I come then and get you with this program five days a week, I know I've lost already.
You're not gonna get it. And if you are, are you gonna get it for three straight months? You just told me business was a really big priority. At the same token, when you come back to me and you're asking and you're wondering why the program isn't getting you the success that you want, I'm gonna say, you gave it 20%. What expectations did you have? Okay. What do you want to take it from?
You're not gonna get it. And if you are, are you gonna get it for three straight months? You just told me business was a really big priority. At the same token, when you come back to me and you're asking and you're wondering why the program isn't getting you the success that you want, I'm gonna say, you gave it 20%. What expectations did you have? Okay. What do you want to take it from?
If you're not willing to move it from somewhere else, there's only finite things that a human can do. So we're going to walk backwards from that equation. So I might say, fine, we're there. Now we get to quarter two and you want to adjust that. You want more results. You want to lose more fat, fill in the blank for the adaptation. I go, great. Where are we going to pull it from?
If you're not willing to move it from somewhere else, there's only finite things that a human can do. So we're going to walk backwards from that equation. So I might say, fine, we're there. Now we get to quarter two and you want to adjust that. You want more results. You want to lose more fat, fill in the blank for the adaptation. I go, great. Where are we going to pull it from?
It's not going to come from recovery. Now it means less business, less friends. This is the ultimate dynamic we have to play, right? People don't want to do the recovery and they don't want to pull it from there, but then they expect massive gains in fitness. We can get you through short periods of time.
It's not going to come from recovery. Now it means less business, less friends. This is the ultimate dynamic we have to play, right? People don't want to do the recovery and they don't want to pull it from there, but then they expect massive gains in fitness. We can get you through short periods of time.
We have these special scenarios all the time where it's like, hey, the Olympics are coming, world championships are coming. We can juice up this a little bit with all kinds of little tricks, but those don't last. And sometimes they burn you into a bigger hole. So if we're thinking long-term strategy with you, I'd say, great, I'm fine with two. We would scope up a little program.
We have these special scenarios all the time where it's like, hey, the Olympics are coming, world championships are coming. We can juice up this a little bit with all kinds of little tricks, but those don't last. And sometimes they burn you into a bigger hole. So if we're thinking long-term strategy with you, I'd say, great, I'm fine with two. We would scope up a little program.
And in your brain, it goes to two. And I'm watching. And I'm like, Jay, you didn't do this thing for recovery. It's been three days. It's been a week. We're at zero for recovery. Don't expect fitness goals with no recovery. Bam. Jay, went out again last night. Went out a little again, took another trip. Friends has been at three or four. You get the point here, right?
And in your brain, it goes to two. And I'm watching. And I'm like, Jay, you didn't do this thing for recovery. It's been three days. It's been a week. We're at zero for recovery. Don't expect fitness goals with no recovery. Bam. Jay, went out again last night. Went out a little again, took another trip. Friends has been at three or four. You get the point here, right?
So I can hold you really accountable to that and saying, if you're not getting your fitness goal, number one starter is, are you even giving it a chance to succeed? If not, we have a non-starter and we have to change our expectations. If you want more results, You got to give me more pie. Give me a bigger shot at it and we'll get more results.
So I can hold you really accountable to that and saying, if you're not getting your fitness goal, number one starter is, are you even giving it a chance to succeed? If not, we have a non-starter and we have to change our expectations. If you want more results, You got to give me more pie. Give me a bigger shot at it and we'll get more results.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
So let me run you through two specific examples on that. I love you brought up travel. This is super easy. We have a coaching program called Arate. This is this like excellence in kind of everything program. If you were an Arate with us right now, I would say, great, you've been home. I'm going to change your entire program. It's going to be more gym stuff. We're going to lift more weights.
So let me run you through two specific examples on that. I love you brought up travel. This is super easy. We have a coaching program called Arate. This is this like excellence in kind of everything program. If you were an Arate with us right now, I would say, great, you've been home. I'm going to change your entire program. It's going to be more gym stuff. We're going to lift more weights.
We're going to have a very specific plan. I'm going to ask you to report back exactly how much you lifted and we're going to track it and we're going to do heavy there. Had we flipped the rule and you were all of a sudden on the road, I would say, great. If I gave that same program, that's going to be a terrible one. It's not going to work. Why?
We're going to have a very specific plan. I'm going to ask you to report back exactly how much you lifted and we're going to track it and we're going to do heavy there. Had we flipped the rule and you were all of a sudden on the road, I would say, great. If I gave that same program, that's going to be a terrible one. It's not going to work. Why?
Because everywhere you land, you're going to have to go to find a gym. It's not going to work. And then the hotel gym sucks. Like, I've set you up for failure. That's bad coaching. I would have spent six weeks going, you know what? Here's what we're going to do. It's called a flexible program. We don't need anything more than a band and a kettlebell. Okay? Maybe not even the kettlebell.
Because everywhere you land, you're going to have to go to find a gym. It's not going to work. And then the hotel gym sucks. Like, I've set you up for failure. That's bad coaching. I would have spent six weeks going, you know what? Here's what we're going to do. It's called a flexible program. We don't need anything more than a band and a kettlebell. Okay? Maybe not even the kettlebell.
And we're going to rotate the days. So what I mean by that is, right now, if you're at home, I would say, okay, Mondays are this. Tuesdays are this. Wednesdays are this. And when you didn't do that on Wednesday, I'd be calling you. Why didn't you finish? Why didn't we train Wednesday? I don't care. I'm on it, right? That doesn't work for you on the road.
And we're going to rotate the days. So what I mean by that is, right now, if you're at home, I would say, okay, Mondays are this. Tuesdays are this. Wednesdays are this. And when you didn't do that on Wednesday, I'd be calling you. Why didn't you finish? Why didn't we train Wednesday? I don't care. I'm on it, right? That doesn't work for you on the road.
I would do more flexible program where we have a concept we're trying to hit. We're trying to get a strength training day in. You do that strength training day, whatever day that comes up. And as soon as you get it in, we check it off. And then we have, say, the next day is gonna be a long duration workout. Great, you get that in when you can.
I would do more flexible program where we have a concept we're trying to hit. We're trying to get a strength training day in. You do that strength training day, whatever day that comes up. And as soon as you get it in, we check it off. And then we have, say, the next day is gonna be a long duration workout. Great, you get that in when you can.
But we also have flexibility because when you go, hey, you know what? I got an extra hour today. There was no gym, but I went for an hour walk. Boom, got that thing in. You have different things you can plug and play based on availability, time, and energy, right? So that's the way to have you success.
But we also have flexibility because when you go, hey, you know what? I got an extra hour today. There was no gym, but I went for an hour walk. Boom, got that thing in. You have different things you can plug and play based on availability, time, and energy, right? So that's the way to have you success.
At the end of the six weeks, we wouldn't have probably made a ton of progress on you if you're on the road constantly, but we would have not gone backwards anywhere. The literature is really clear. The science is clear. You can maintain muscle size. You can maintain muscle strength very, very well. Cardiovascular fitness is incredibly stable. with one or so training sessions per week.
At the end of the six weeks, we wouldn't have probably made a ton of progress on you if you're on the road constantly, but we would have not gone backwards anywhere. The literature is really clear. The science is clear. You can maintain muscle size. You can maintain muscle strength very, very well. Cardiovascular fitness is incredibly stable. with one or so training sessions per week.
We could have kept you right where you're at. And then we would have looked at this and said, okay, our expectations for progress are not going to be high during Jay's six weeks of travel. Let's all set expectation here. But when we get home... We're getting after it and our expectations are higher.
We could have kept you right where you're at. And then we would have looked at this and said, okay, our expectations for progress are not going to be high during Jay's six weeks of travel. Let's all set expectation here. But when we get home... We're getting after it and our expectations are higher.
So at the net end of both of those, you add them together and you see where I'm going with that, right? So it's not just expecting yourself to gain five pounds of muscle every single month. It's unrealistic. We would have looked at the whole quarter or the whole year is what we, in our day, we look at the whole year for people. And we go, okay, great.
So at the net end of both of those, you add them together and you see where I'm going with that, right? So it's not just expecting yourself to gain five pounds of muscle every single month. It's unrealistic. We would have looked at the whole quarter or the whole year is what we, in our day, we look at the whole year for people. And we go, okay, great.
Quarter one is not the quarter we're going to go after it. We're going to work on mobility. We're going to work on our breath work. We're going to work on thousands of other things that can be done on the road, can be done with traveling. We're going to get our best gains in, fill in the other blank, when we've got, maybe it's quarter three.
Quarter one is not the quarter we're going to go after it. We're going to work on mobility. We're going to work on our breath work. We're going to work on thousands of other things that can be done on the road, can be done with traveling. We're going to get our best gains in, fill in the other blank, when we've got, maybe it's quarter three.
And we actually have goals for each quarter for the year that are plotted out. And so we give people the best chance of success. The best example I can give of that is quarter four is the worst possible time to have fat loss goals in America. Like it's impossible. You run into Halloween, I have a little bit of candy, right? And then it's like, well, I'll get back on it.
And we actually have goals for each quarter for the year that are plotted out. And so we give people the best chance of success. The best example I can give of that is quarter four is the worst possible time to have fat loss goals in America. Like it's impossible. You run into Halloween, I have a little bit of candy, right? And then it's like, well, I'll get back on it.
But reality, it is like Thanksgiving is going to be here in a couple of weeks, right? All the way out through New Year.
But reality, it is like Thanksgiving is going to be here in a couple of weeks, right? All the way out through New Year.
Terrible. If you try to have, for most people, a huge fat loss goal, you're going to lose. So we don't play that game. You know what we typically focus on this part of the year? We're going to shift towards muscle growth. That's when you need excessive calories, right? Let's feed the beast. Let's not fight our life. Life will win.
Terrible. If you try to have, for most people, a huge fat loss goal, you're going to lose. So we don't play that game. You know what we typically focus on this part of the year? We're going to shift towards muscle growth. That's when you need excessive calories, right? Let's feed the beast. Let's not fight our life. Life will win.
We're going to go back typically just as, you know, big examples here. It's different for everyone. We will focus more typically on fat loss quarter two. You know why? No holidays, nothing around, and everyone has a little bit of extra motivation to look a little bit better over the summer when the sun comes out and they're more likely to have their shirts off. thing down.
We're going to go back typically just as, you know, big examples here. It's different for everyone. We will focus more typically on fat loss quarter two. You know why? No holidays, nothing around, and everyone has a little bit of extra motivation to look a little bit better over the summer when the sun comes out and they're more likely to have their shirts off. thing down.
So it fits life a little bit better. You see my point here, right?
So it fits life a little bit better. You see my point here, right?
Totally.
Totally.
Yeah, no, I absolutely love that. So at its highest category, We always define it as people generally want three things in their fitness. They want to look good, they want to feel good, and they want to perform good. Pardon my grammar, right? Now, what does look mean? I don't know. You tell me. You want to have this look or you don't want, I do not care.
Yeah, no, I absolutely love that. So at its highest category, We always define it as people generally want three things in their fitness. They want to look good, they want to feel good, and they want to perform good. Pardon my grammar, right? Now, what does look mean? I don't know. You tell me. You want to have this look or you don't want, I do not care.
But at some point, you want your body to look a certain way or not look a certain way. Up to you to define. You want it to feel a certain way. You want it to feel strong. You want it to feel fast. You want it to feel mobile. You want it to feel, don't care, you define that. Then you want to perform. What's that mean? You want to have more energy. You want to have more mental focus.
But at some point, you want your body to look a certain way or not look a certain way. Up to you to define. You want it to feel a certain way. You want it to feel strong. You want it to feel fast. You want it to feel mobile. You want it to feel, don't care, you define that. Then you want to perform. What's that mean? You want to have more energy. You want to have more mental focus.
You want your digestion problem to go away. You don't want that knee pain gone. Okay? So it's a look, a feel, or a performance metric. Absolutely. Ultimately, everybody's after, right? Yeah. So from our professional athletes to non, to the students that work in my lab for our research questions, that's the first lens I'm looking at. What does that mean for you?
You want your digestion problem to go away. You don't want that knee pain gone. Okay? So it's a look, a feel, or a performance metric. Absolutely. Ultimately, everybody's after, right? Yeah. So from our professional athletes to non, to the students that work in my lab for our research questions, that's the first lens I'm looking at. What does that mean for you?
So when I'm designing a, when we're designing a study or we're, again, working with individuals, filter number one, what does fit, what does look mean to you? What does feel, what does perform look to you? Now I'm calibrated, right? Because I love this question so much. Fitness can be, I just want to be able to surf every day. Amazing. I'm in, right?
So when I'm designing a, when we're designing a study or we're, again, working with individuals, filter number one, what does fit, what does look mean to you? What does feel, what does perform look to you? Now I'm calibrated, right? Because I love this question so much. Fitness can be, I just want to be able to surf every day. Amazing. I'm in, right?
Fitness just means I want more energy with my kids. I'm here for all of that. All of that can be rooted in performance.
Fitness just means I want more energy with my kids. I'm here for all of that. All of that can be rooted in performance.
We have a saying that if you have a body, you're an athlete, which is to say, I don't care if you want to use those physical abilities to shoot a basketball or hit a golf ball, like some of our clients, or you want to use that to just run your business better, be a better leader, make better decisions, be able to work more hours and less fatigue. Fine. You're still asking your body to perform.
We have a saying that if you have a body, you're an athlete, which is to say, I don't care if you want to use those physical abilities to shoot a basketball or hit a golf ball, like some of our clients, or you want to use that to just run your business better, be a better leader, make better decisions, be able to work more hours and less fatigue. Fine. You're still asking your body to perform.
It's the exact same thing, except for a couple of little points at the end of physical movement skill, right? So that's answer number one. Now, taking this question entirely differently, if you look at what is generally true for most people, fitness is a combination of a handful of things. You want to be able to do activities and not pay major consequences. That is it, right?
It's the exact same thing, except for a couple of little points at the end of physical movement skill, right? So that's answer number one. Now, taking this question entirely differently, if you look at what is generally true for most people, fitness is a combination of a handful of things. You want to be able to do activities and not pay major consequences. That is it, right?
I want to be able to walk up this dang hill and then not wake up tomorrow in screaming pain. So it is a, I want to do A, and then I don't want B to happen as a consequence, right? So I want to empower everyone to be able to have that.
I want to be able to walk up this dang hill and then not wake up tomorrow in screaming pain. So it is a, I want to do A, and then I don't want B to happen as a consequence, right? So I want to empower everyone to be able to have that.
and then not pay major consequences, whether it's injury or a handful of other things. So for most people to be able to execute a resilient physiology, that is to be able to do many things, it's one of the reasons, again, we called it RTA. It's this concept of I want to be able to do many things and then not have severe consequences.
and then not pay major consequences, whether it's injury or a handful of other things. So for most people to be able to execute a resilient physiology, that is to be able to do many things, it's one of the reasons, again, we called it RTA. It's this concept of I want to be able to do many things and then not have severe consequences.
So you're going to have to have some semblance of physical strength, number one, right? You don't need to be a powerlifter or a bodybuilder or a weightlifter, blah, blah, blah. But minimal levels of strength. If you want to look at this from the medical perspective, I can make that argument. We can go into tons of the research. I was about to ask you that. Yeah.
So you're going to have to have some semblance of physical strength, number one, right? You don't need to be a powerlifter or a bodybuilder or a weightlifter, blah, blah, blah. But minimal levels of strength. If you want to look at this from the medical perspective, I can make that argument. We can go into tons of the research. I was about to ask you that. Yeah.
Well, I would say that we as a strength conditioning field didn't help ourselves much. And this was actually the whole fun story here. In the early 1900s, strength training was viewed as something that was really deleterious. It was dangerous. There's a long story here, but you'll have a heart attack. It's this thing, right? And that stayed along for a long period of time.
Well, I would say that we as a strength conditioning field didn't help ourselves much. And this was actually the whole fun story here. In the early 1900s, strength training was viewed as something that was really deleterious. It was dangerous. There's a long story here, but you'll have a heart attack. It's this thing, right? And that stayed along for a long period of time.
The science said it was bad for you. And then the science changed. In fact, there's a famous individual named Dr. Karpovich, who himself was a scientific advocate of this is dangerous. And then collected more data and realized actually it's not dangerous. And then, oh my gosh, there's all these health benefits. That happened in the 1950s and 60s.
The science said it was bad for you. And then the science changed. In fact, there's a famous individual named Dr. Karpovich, who himself was a scientific advocate of this is dangerous. And then collected more data and realized actually it's not dangerous. And then, oh my gosh, there's all these health benefits. That happened in the 1950s and 60s.
Right after that, on the back of it, you've got Arnold Schwarzenegger. You've got Pumping Iron. You've got Conan. You've got these things. And you went from bad for my health to, oh my gosh, I can become a superhero. And this empowered a generation of men, mostly. Oh my gosh, I can become a physical superhero. That was awesome.
Right after that, on the back of it, you've got Arnold Schwarzenegger. You've got Pumping Iron. You've got Conan. You've got these things. And you went from bad for my health to, oh my gosh, I can become a superhero. And this empowered a generation of men, mostly. Oh my gosh, I can become a physical superhero. That was awesome.
But the downside of that was everyone's association with him with strength training was muscle and bodybuilding. And that is a very limited perspective of strength. So scientifically, the people in this field were not strength training people. The exercise physiologists, the nutrition scientists for, in most part, the 1960s through 90s were all endurance folks.
But the downside of that was everyone's association with him with strength training was muscle and bodybuilding. And that is a very limited perspective of strength. So scientifically, the people in this field were not strength training people. The exercise physiologists, the nutrition scientists for, in most part, the 1960s through 90s were all endurance folks.
And so you had no research being done. I mean, you couldn't make the argument anymore that it was bad for your health, but there was no argument that it was really great for your health. And they had a whole generation of kids like me. who came up on that, but then also like science and started saying like, why aren't we doing studies on strength and high intensity stuff?
And so you had no research being done. I mean, you couldn't make the argument anymore that it was bad for your health, but there was no argument that it was really great for your health. And they had a whole generation of kids like me. who came up on that, but then also like science and started saying like, why aren't we doing studies on strength and high intensity stuff?
And well, that only lasted so long before work started coming out in that area. And now it is so clear. We have mechanism. We have epidemiological evidence. We have randomized control trials in men and women, young, old, and the research goes on. Physical strength is one of the single strongest, pun intended, predictors of lifespan.
And well, that only lasted so long before work started coming out in that area. And now it is so clear. We have mechanism. We have epidemiological evidence. We have randomized control trials in men and women, young, old, and the research goes on. Physical strength is one of the single strongest, pun intended, predictors of lifespan.
And so you've got lifespan, which is how long you're going to live. You have health span, which people talk about now, which is how healthy are you within those years? And now scientifically, we call that strength span, right? And what they're saying is strength span, it's not the only thing that matters, but it's an important characteristic to your health span.
And so you've got lifespan, which is how long you're going to live. You have health span, which people talk about now, which is how healthy are you within those years? And now scientifically, we call that strength span, right? And what they're saying is strength span, it's not the only thing that matters, but it's an important characteristic to your health span.
If you lack physical strength, a number of things start to happen. Number one, This is one of the reasons why we look at, for the record, like leg strength and grip strength as two of the most ubiquitous predictors. You'll see this all across the literature as statistically significant predictors of mortality.
If you lack physical strength, a number of things start to happen. Number one, This is one of the reasons why we look at, for the record, like leg strength and grip strength as two of the most ubiquitous predictors. You'll see this all across the literature as statistically significant predictors of mortality.
And in fact, some of the papers that directly compare strength, again, mostly leg strength, leg extension, and grip strength, to VO2 max, oftentimes, but not always, but oftentimes will show strength is a stronger predictor of mortality or all-cause mortality than VO2 max. So we've talked ad nauseum, you know, last bunch of years about important VO2 maxes, and it's absolutely true.
And in fact, some of the papers that directly compare strength, again, mostly leg strength, leg extension, and grip strength, to VO2 max, oftentimes, but not always, but oftentimes will show strength is a stronger predictor of mortality or all-cause mortality than VO2 max. So we've talked ad nauseum, you know, last bunch of years about important VO2 maxes, and it's absolutely true.
But strength is right there as an equivalent predictor of how long you're going to live. So the question is why? Well, you have correlation and causation here. Lots of evidence on both sides. If you are weak, say in your hands, it is a proxy for overall strength. So that in and of itself is true. It's also direct intervention.
But strength is right there as an equivalent predictor of how long you're going to live. So the question is why? Well, you have correlation and causation here. Lots of evidence on both sides. If you are weak, say in your hands, it is a proxy for overall strength. So that in and of itself is true. It's also direct intervention.
If you can't carry a bag confidently and you can't put a backpack in an overhead compartment, you're not going to take the bus. You're much less likely to go on an airplane. This now leads to secondary problems with social isolation. You're not confident.
If you can't carry a bag confidently and you can't put a backpack in an overhead compartment, you're not going to take the bus. You're much less likely to go on an airplane. This now leads to secondary problems with social isolation. You're not confident.
One of the single biggest predictors of one of the single biggest issues we have with unsuccessful aging is that people, when people start to feel like they become a burden on society, they start to withdraw rapidly. No one wants to be the person in line holding everybody up. No one wants, like, you just, you know all those examples there, right?
One of the single biggest predictors of one of the single biggest issues we have with unsuccessful aging is that people, when people start to feel like they become a burden on society, they start to withdraw rapidly. No one wants to be the person in line holding everybody up. No one wants, like, you just, you know all those examples there, right?
So people are more likely to just socially withdraw. And now we're having all the secondary problems of social isolation and even physical activity starts to go down because people don't leave their house, they watch TV more, and this whole cascade of things start to happen.
So people are more likely to just socially withdraw. And now we're having all the secondary problems of social isolation and even physical activity starts to go down because people don't leave their house, they watch TV more, and this whole cascade of things start to happen.
And so we have direct and indirect mechanism there that say, again, you don't have to be massively strong, but just maintain some semblance of grip strength. Your legs are going to tell the same story. This is your interface with the world, your legs and your hands. And so your ability to locomote, to move throughout the world is mostly your legs.
And so we have direct and indirect mechanism there that say, again, you don't have to be massively strong, but just maintain some semblance of grip strength. Your legs are going to tell the same story. This is your interface with the world, your legs and your hands. And so your ability to locomote, to move throughout the world is mostly your legs.
If you don't feel confident that you can walk up the steps to that museum, slowly you stop going on those trips. You start doing that extra thing. It hurts too much. It's too exhausting. Again, fill in all the blanks here. And so having some sort of physical leg strength gives you confidence that allows general physical activity, which then pays all those additional benefits.
If you don't feel confident that you can walk up the steps to that museum, slowly you stop going on those trips. You start doing that extra thing. It hurts too much. It's too exhausting. Again, fill in all the blanks here. And so having some sort of physical leg strength gives you confidence that allows general physical activity, which then pays all those additional benefits.
That doesn't even carry in account the direct physical benefits. So if we start looking at muscles specifically, muscle quality, and this can be defined a lot of different ways, is going to regulate in part things like your blood glucose. And you've, I'm sure, talked to many people about the importance of metabolic health.
That doesn't even carry in account the direct physical benefits. So if we start looking at muscles specifically, muscle quality, and this can be defined a lot of different ways, is going to regulate in part things like your blood glucose. And you've, I'm sure, talked to many people about the importance of metabolic health.
Skeletal muscle is going to explain about 80% of the variance in your resting metabolic rate. That's your faster, slow metabolism. Again, 80% of the variance is going to be explained by how much lean muscle you have for the most part. So you don't need to be huge, but losing muscle is called sarcopenia. You lose muscle faster than you should be with aging.
Skeletal muscle is going to explain about 80% of the variance in your resting metabolic rate. That's your faster, slow metabolism. Again, 80% of the variance is going to be explained by how much lean muscle you have for the most part. So you don't need to be huge, but losing muscle is called sarcopenia. You lose muscle faster than you should be with aging.
Highly associated with inflammatory states, reduced resting metabolic rate, which then goes right back to the equation. Glucose regulation, all of these things start to happen. Last fire hose, I know I'm going after it this little bit here, but this is a topic of clear passion to me, is you have the presence of strength as well as the act of the training itself.
Highly associated with inflammatory states, reduced resting metabolic rate, which then goes right back to the equation. Glucose regulation, all of these things start to happen. Last fire hose, I know I'm going after it this little bit here, but this is a topic of clear passion to me, is you have the presence of strength as well as the act of the training itself.
So going through the strength training process has additional benefits to things like your central nervous system, brain, and neurological system. The evidence is very clear. Your physical brain will stay healthier in terms of white matter and things like that when you strength train. It will stay around a lot longer.
So going through the strength training process has additional benefits to things like your central nervous system, brain, and neurological system. The evidence is very clear. Your physical brain will stay healthier in terms of white matter and things like that when you strength train. It will stay around a lot longer.
There's actually a lot of research now that's starting to point to the fact that things like dementia and Alzheimer's, late onset specifically, is highly preventable. And by highly, I mean it's an extraordinarily high number. You'd have to get a neuroscientist on to really get numbers there.
There's actually a lot of research now that's starting to point to the fact that things like dementia and Alzheimer's, late onset specifically, is highly preventable. And by highly, I mean it's an extraordinarily high number. You'd have to get a neuroscientist on to really get numbers there.
But it is way more preventable than we realize, specifically from physical activity and exercise as not the only thing there, but a huge component to that. Lastly, Why? Remember, the way that you move throughout the world has three big components to it. So when you pick your leg up like that and you just shifted your toe, what ended up happening there is three things.
But it is way more preventable than we realize, specifically from physical activity and exercise as not the only thing there, but a huge component to that. Lastly, Why? Remember, the way that you move throughout the world has three big components to it. So when you pick your leg up like that and you just shifted your toe, what ended up happening there is three things.
Some signal went from your central nervous system. This could be your brain, spinal cord, it doesn't matter, nerves. Send a signal. That's part one. Part two, those nerves activate or turn on muscles, and then the muscles contract. That's part two. Those muscles are surrounded by connective tissue. The connective tissue actually is tied into your bone.
Some signal went from your central nervous system. This could be your brain, spinal cord, it doesn't matter, nerves. Send a signal. That's part one. Part two, those nerves activate or turn on muscles, and then the muscles contract. That's part two. Those muscles are surrounded by connective tissue. The connective tissue actually is tied into your bone.
Pulling the connective tissue is what actually made your foot move like that. So connective tissue is part three. So the reality is anytime you're strength training, you're keeping connective tissue healthier, you're keeping that muscle quality high, and you're continuing to keep that nervous system activated. Keeping that nervous system alive is keeping your brain alive.
Pulling the connective tissue is what actually made your foot move like that. So connective tissue is part three. So the reality is anytime you're strength training, you're keeping connective tissue healthier, you're keeping that muscle quality high, and you're continuing to keep that nervous system activated. Keeping that nervous system alive is keeping your brain alive.
It's physically what you're doing. It's keeping your entire nervous system around and fine-tuned. It's the same process. And so when we tend to think about strength training as something we're doing for our muscles, we cannot forget we're also doing it for our joints, we're doing it for our bones, And we're also doing it for our brains and nervous system.
It's physically what you're doing. It's keeping your entire nervous system around and fine-tuned. It's the same process. And so when we tend to think about strength training as something we're doing for our muscles, we cannot forget we're also doing it for our joints, we're doing it for our bones, And we're also doing it for our brains and nervous system.
Great. You're on fire. I love these questions so much. Let me ask you a trick question. And I'm telling you, I'm tricking you right now. What's going to burn more calories, walking a mile or running a mile?
Great. You're on fire. I love these questions so much. Let me ask you a trick question. And I'm telling you, I'm tricking you right now. What's going to burn more calories, walking a mile or running a mile?
What's calorie? Oh, walking. Sorry, my bad. A calorie is energy. Right. Calories work. Right. Walking a mile, running a mile. Oh, same thing. It's the same thing. Interesting.
What's calorie? Oh, walking. Sorry, my bad. A calorie is energy. Right. Calories work. Right. Walking a mile, running a mile. Oh, same thing. It's the same thing. Interesting.
Now it's a bit of a trick because you probably would burn a few more calories walking or running rather because there's a little bit of inefficiency in the system.
Now it's a bit of a trick because you probably would burn a few more calories walking or running rather because there's a little bit of inefficiency in the system.
But theoretically, if you're simply looking for caloric work, this is why we have so much evidence at this point. You can manage calories any way you'd like.
But theoretically, if you're simply looking for caloric work, this is why we have so much evidence at this point. You can manage calories any way you'd like.
That'll hit people. If you like long duration, slower stuff, you like cardio or heart, I hate those phrases, but if that's ringing a bell to you. Which phrases do you hate? Things like cardio.
That'll hit people. If you like long duration, slower stuff, you like cardio or heart, I hate those phrases, but if that's ringing a bell to you. Which phrases do you hate? Things like cardio.
Because? It doesn't mean anything. Well, it's cardiovascular training. Anything that uses your heart. Like, well, fantastic. That is literally every form of exercise, right? Like it doesn't make any sense. If you hate that though, you don't ever have to do it. We can get this same place.
Because? It doesn't mean anything. Well, it's cardiovascular training. Anything that uses your heart. Like, well, fantastic. That is literally every form of exercise, right? Like it doesn't make any sense. If you hate that though, you don't ever have to do it. We can get this same place.
And the energy thing I just gave you was just a little silly example of saying, hey, look, if we really actually get down to the physiology and science, These are not major differences like people think that they are. So if I'm looking at fitness across the entire spectrum here, I think it's helpful to break it up into three global areas.
And the energy thing I just gave you was just a little silly example of saying, hey, look, if we really actually get down to the physiology and science, These are not major differences like people think that they are. So if I'm looking at fitness across the entire spectrum here, I think it's helpful to break it up into three global areas.
If you can't tell by this point in the show, I'm a teacher, so I like systems and numbers. Yeah, it's great. Number one, what you laid out when you said walking 10,000 steps, I will bucket that into physical activity. This is human movement. We should have a default state of human movement, right?
If you can't tell by this point in the show, I'm a teacher, so I like systems and numbers. Yeah, it's great. Number one, what you laid out when you said walking 10,000 steps, I will bucket that into physical activity. This is human movement. We should have a default state of human movement, right?
Whether this is walking, standing, playing with our kids, gardening, if you're in a labor and you have a physical, fantastic. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking, my lifestyle is really active because I'm a construction worker or I'm a nurse and I'm walking up okay, you probably don't need to go out of your way to do a whole bunch of low intensity cardiovascular exercise.
Whether this is walking, standing, playing with our kids, gardening, if you're in a labor and you have a physical, fantastic. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking, my lifestyle is really active because I'm a construction worker or I'm a nurse and I'm walking up okay, you probably don't need to go out of your way to do a whole bunch of low intensity cardiovascular exercise.
And you could, but if we're trying to get really efficient and saying kind of what's my minimal viable option here, I could say, if we got to give one up, let's give that one up because you're getting your 10,000 or 15 or 20,000 steps. If you've ever paid attention to a teacher's My wife spent 17 years as a preschool special ed teacher.
And you could, but if we're trying to get really efficient and saying kind of what's my minimal viable option here, I could say, if we got to give one up, let's give that one up because you're getting your 10,000 or 15 or 20,000 steps. If you've ever paid attention to a teacher's My wife spent 17 years as a preschool special ed teacher.
Her step count was outrageous because her whole life was just going three steps at a time, trying to keep a kid from like doing something really naughty or dangerous or whatever. So there's a lot of professions that are even outside of a true like construction jobs that get a lot of physical activity. They don't realize it. So that person, I'm going to go, we're good there.
Her step count was outrageous because her whole life was just going three steps at a time, trying to keep a kid from like doing something really naughty or dangerous or whatever. So there's a lot of professions that are even outside of a true like construction jobs that get a lot of physical activity. They don't realize it. So that person, I'm going to go, we're good there.
Maybe we're going to go float on category two, which is, we'll just call this structured cardiovascular exercise. This is intentionally going to work out. This could be intervals. It could be swimming. It could be pickleball, sports, wrestling, like any number of things. It could be higher intensity stuff or even lower intensity stuff, but you're going to work out, right?
Maybe we're going to go float on category two, which is, we'll just call this structured cardiovascular exercise. This is intentionally going to work out. This could be intervals. It could be swimming. It could be pickleball, sports, wrestling, like any number of things. It could be higher intensity stuff or even lower intensity stuff, but you're going to work out, right?
Heart rate's going to be much higher here. You're probably going to break a sweat or something like that. I hope you're not breaking a sweat walking. It's physical activity, right? So if those things help you kind of understand the general category of number two, that's what we're after.
Heart rate's going to be much higher here. You're probably going to break a sweat or something like that. I hope you're not breaking a sweat walking. It's physical activity, right? So if those things help you kind of understand the general category of number two, that's what we're after.
So if we go back to that nurse or that teacher and we're thinking, okay, we're good over there, but we still need to get one to two days a week, most likely, of this structured cardiovascular training. If we want to make it simple, give me one day where we get a really high heart rate, I'll call it max.
So if we go back to that nurse or that teacher and we're thinking, okay, we're good over there, but we still need to get one to two days a week, most likely, of this structured cardiovascular training. If we want to make it simple, give me one day where we get a really high heart rate, I'll call it max.
It doesn't necessarily need to literally be 100%, but it's going to have to be well past comfort zone. One day a week is all we really need up there. It doesn't have to be a long time. I don't care the method you pick. I don't care the machine you go on. If you want to run sprints, I'm all for it. You want to swing kettlebells to do it, whatever. Great.
It doesn't necessarily need to literally be 100%, but it's going to have to be well past comfort zone. One day a week is all we really need up there. It doesn't have to be a long time. I don't care the method you pick. I don't care the machine you go on. If you want to run sprints, I'm all for it. You want to swing kettlebells to do it, whatever. Great.
What I'm looking at is did we get that node knocked off? Yes, we got high heart rate up there. Cool. Category three is more of our traditional strength training thing. And you asked a little bit of a question earlier, but why is that different? Why is it not the same? Why isn't the walking and the higher intensity? I did sprints. My legs are tired and sore. Why is that not strength training?
What I'm looking at is did we get that node knocked off? Yes, we got high heart rate up there. Cool. Category three is more of our traditional strength training thing. And you asked a little bit of a question earlier, but why is that different? Why is it not the same? Why isn't the walking and the higher intensity? I did sprints. My legs are tired and sore. Why is that not strength training?
Well, there's a very specific reason. First of all, it's pretty good. If that's all we can do, I'll take it. That's a win. But your muscles are actually constructed of hundreds of thousands of individual muscle fibers. So think of this like a ponytail. So a ponytail you think of as like one thing, but in reality, it's just a conglomerate of a bunch of individual hairs.
Well, there's a very specific reason. First of all, it's pretty good. If that's all we can do, I'll take it. That's a win. But your muscles are actually constructed of hundreds of thousands of individual muscle fibers. So think of this like a ponytail. So a ponytail you think of as like one thing, but in reality, it's just a conglomerate of a bunch of individual hairs.
That's how your muscles work. You have lots of hair, we call them muscle fibers in there. Each one of those muscle fibers can be broadly categorized as either fast twitch, Or slow twitch. Fast twitch does what it sounds like. Slow twitch has more mitochondria in it. It handles most of your basal physical activity. Right now, you and I are using almost exclusively slow twitch fibers.
That's how your muscles work. You have lots of hair, we call them muscle fibers in there. Each one of those muscle fibers can be broadly categorized as either fast twitch, Or slow twitch. Fast twitch does what it sounds like. Slow twitch has more mitochondria in it. It handles most of your basal physical activity. Right now, you and I are using almost exclusively slow twitch fibers.
Nothing we're doing fast here. Right. And so they're not fatigable. So if I ask you to take your finger, maybe your right finger, left finger, we'll do left finger. and reach up and touch your nose with that left finger. Now, what you just did right there is you activated a set of neurons that said, okay, turn on the muscles in combination to touch that nose.
Nothing we're doing fast here. Right. And so they're not fatigable. So if I ask you to take your finger, maybe your right finger, left finger, we'll do left finger. and reach up and touch your nose with that left finger. Now, what you just did right there is you activated a set of neurons that said, okay, turn on the muscles in combination to touch that nose.
The neurons you just turned on are very low threshold, which means they're easy to activate, they're very energy efficient, but they're gonna activate generally those slow twitch fibers. Now, if I said, grab that can of juice, will you? Or juice, sorry to call it juice. Tea? Yeah, sparkling tea. Yeah, okay, great. Put that back in your left hand.
The neurons you just turned on are very low threshold, which means they're easy to activate, they're very energy efficient, but they're gonna activate generally those slow twitch fibers. Now, if I said, grab that can of juice, will you? Or juice, sorry to call it juice. Tea? Yeah, sparkling tea. Yeah, okay, great. Put that back in your left hand.
Now, do the same exact activity and raise it to your nose Boom. You just did the exact same process, but you needed to produce more force. Why? Because you got an extra eight ounces or something in that. So your body went, wait a minute. I'm assuming nothing was going to be in my hand, but then I realized there's an additional amount of force needed. And so how did it increase force production?
Now, do the same exact activity and raise it to your nose Boom. You just did the exact same process, but you needed to produce more force. Why? Because you got an extra eight ounces or something in that. So your body went, wait a minute. I'm assuming nothing was going to be in my hand, but then I realized there's an additional amount of force needed. And so how did it increase force production?
Your muscle fibers can't squeeze any harder. When they contract, they contract as hard as possible every single time. The only way that you increase force production is to turn on more of those nerves. We just train our nervous system. That's what it is. More of those nerves turned on.
Your muscle fibers can't squeeze any harder. When they contract, they contract as hard as possible every single time. The only way that you increase force production is to turn on more of those nerves. We just train our nervous system. That's what it is. More of those nerves turned on.
If I were to now take that T and we made it 40 kilos, the only way that you can continue to produce more force to lift it up to your nose is to turn on those additional motor neurons, which are going to be your fast-twitch muscle fibers. So if we extend this all out, when you're doing those other activities, you're not ever going to get to that high threshold.
If I were to now take that T and we made it 40 kilos, the only way that you can continue to produce more force to lift it up to your nose is to turn on those additional motor neurons, which are going to be your fast-twitch muscle fibers. So if we extend this all out, when you're doing those other activities, you're not ever going to get to that high threshold.
You're never going to use those muscle fibers. And so one of the things we know happens with aging, when we omit strength training or strength training-like activities, those motor neurons and those muscle fibers die. And this is why we lose strength and power as we age is because we never activate those neurons. I don't care about getting you PRs in the gym right now.
You're never going to use those muscle fibers. And so one of the things we know happens with aging, when we omit strength training or strength training-like activities, those motor neurons and those muscle fibers die. And this is why we lose strength and power as we age is because we never activate those neurons. I don't care about getting you PRs in the gym right now.
We're trying to make sure that we just don't lose any functional capacity 50 years from now. The sprinting that got your legs sore was good. But those nerves are turned on when force is required. We didn't get enough physical force production. This is the exact same reason why things like body weight exercise is great. It's good. It can take people a long way. But eventually...
We're trying to make sure that we just don't lose any functional capacity 50 years from now. The sprinting that got your legs sore was good. But those nerves are turned on when force is required. We didn't get enough physical force production. This is the exact same reason why things like body weight exercise is great. It's good. It can take people a long way. But eventually...
We're going to run out of some options here, especially for our lower body, because we just won't have enough load to activate all the nerves or the motor units rather in the legs to truly get force production to keep them as strong and healthy as possible. So that third category we're talking about, remember category one was kind of physical activity.
We're going to run out of some options here, especially for our lower body, because we just won't have enough load to activate all the nerves or the motor units rather in the legs to truly get force production to keep them as strong and healthy as possible. So that third category we're talking about, remember category one was kind of physical activity.
Category two is that structured cardiovascular. Category three was structured strength training stuff. You got to give me one of those days a week. So if we go back to this kind of nurse, lots of physical activity, one to two days a week of that, one to two days a week of something related to strength. We'd be good there.
Category two is that structured cardiovascular. Category three was structured strength training stuff. You got to give me one of those days a week. So if we go back to this kind of nurse, lots of physical activity, one to two days a week of that, one to two days a week of something related to strength. We'd be good there.
We changed that scenario up to somebody more like you and I. I was probably not doing a lot of steps throughout the day because we're sitting. You and I are going to have to engineer that back into our lives. So the fitness routine, I don't know anything about how your day is set up. I'm just assuming you're sitting more than that type of person, that avatar.
We changed that scenario up to somebody more like you and I. I was probably not doing a lot of steps throughout the day because we're sitting. You and I are going to have to engineer that back into our lives. So the fitness routine, I don't know anything about how your day is set up. I'm just assuming you're sitting more than that type of person, that avatar.
I would put more structured physical activity in your life. We would maybe do something like a 10-minute walk three times a day. Two times a day. We would maybe, hey, let's add in a walking treadmill.
I would put more structured physical activity in your life. We would maybe do something like a 10-minute walk three times a day. Two times a day. We would maybe, hey, let's add in a walking treadmill.
Maybe let's add in, like we would look for little games that we can, maybe we need to add in one or two days a week of an hour long hike as a part of your structured fitness program to get that back, right? So what we're always doing is, again, assessing the entire nature and saying, those are the three big areas most people have.
Maybe let's add in, like we would look for little games that we can, maybe we need to add in one or two days a week of an hour long hike as a part of your structured fitness program to get that back, right? So what we're always doing is, again, assessing the entire nature and saying, those are the three big areas most people have.
And you got to move well within those categories and don't get hurt and never lose your flexibility. And there's more stuff, but categorically, these are the first layers of filters I'm going through and saying, okay, if we have to leave one of these things out, maybe we can, right? So maybe you sit at a desk job, but then you go and you do kickboxing class.
And you got to move well within those categories and don't get hurt and never lose your flexibility. And there's more stuff, but categorically, these are the first layers of filters I'm going through and saying, okay, if we have to leave one of these things out, maybe we can, right? So maybe you sit at a desk job, but then you go and you do kickboxing class.
okay, we actually got node two out of there. Maybe now we just put some physical activity in there and put some strength training in there and we're actually, we're okay. We can survive with that, right? That's kind of the best way to think about your lifestyle and think, am I getting any of these three? Great.
okay, we actually got node two out of there. Maybe now we just put some physical activity in there and put some strength training in there and we're actually, we're okay. We can survive with that, right? That's kind of the best way to think about your lifestyle and think, am I getting any of these three? Great.
And then if, okay, optimal is not realistic to me, then what do I have to do to just kind of get MVP out? And then that's how I go about thinking it.
And then if, okay, optimal is not realistic to me, then what do I have to do to just kind of get MVP out? And then that's how I go about thinking it.
It's hard to be really good at all three. Yeah. This would go back to quadrant. And we would say, okay, what's the realistic goal? Okay, realistic goal is I'm at five with business. Okay, well then maybe we go, look, he doesn't have time to do three and a half hours of zone two and then do a strength training and then do it. We're going to lose that.
It's hard to be really good at all three. Yeah. This would go back to quadrant. And we would say, okay, what's the realistic goal? Okay, realistic goal is I'm at five with business. Okay, well then maybe we go, look, he doesn't have time to do three and a half hours of zone two and then do a strength training and then do it. We're going to lose that.
But we're not going to let that be an excuse for never doing it. So next quarter, we're going to come back and you got to pay me back. We're going to go back into it. We're going to now emphasize maybe caloric restriction. We're going to do more movement because it'll burn the same calories and we have more time. And you got to promise me we're going to take business down to four.
But we're not going to let that be an excuse for never doing it. So next quarter, we're going to come back and you got to pay me back. We're going to go back into it. We're going to now emphasize maybe caloric restriction. We're going to do more movement because it'll burn the same calories and we have more time. And you got to promise me we're going to take business down to four.
Deal. Great. Now you have a window. You're looking at it. You're going, okay, I got this month. You don't have to feel bad about skipping this thing because there's a plan. There's a strategy, right? But then I'm also going to be able to hold you accountable to something that was realistic and making progress. So you don't have to have those balances I talked about all year round.
Deal. Great. Now you have a window. You're looking at it. You're going, okay, I got this month. You don't have to feel bad about skipping this thing because there's a plan. There's a strategy, right? But then I'm also going to be able to hold you accountable to something that was realistic and making progress. So you don't have to have those balances I talked about all year round.
It's okay to shift them. different priorities, different times of the year. Look at your schedule, look what you want, look at what's realistic, and then set yourself up for the best chance for failure. For success, sorry.
It's okay to shift them. different priorities, different times of the year. Look at your schedule, look what you want, look at what's realistic, and then set yourself up for the best chance for failure. For success, sorry.
Right. So with recovery, when you think about strength training, Recovery, in most people's mind, is how sore was I, okay? However, you gotta remember, with higher intensity cardiovascular stuff, that has a different recovery demand as well.
Right. So with recovery, when you think about strength training, Recovery, in most people's mind, is how sore was I, okay? However, you gotta remember, with higher intensity cardiovascular stuff, that has a different recovery demand as well.
So I don't want you to think strength training requires my recovery, because we've seen a lot of people burn themselves into the ground with lots of high intensity cardiovascular training, and they have no idea why. Especially your hard-charging executives, decision-makers, surgeons, high-pressure jobs. High pressure, high pressure, high pressure. High ventilatory rate.
So I don't want you to think strength training requires my recovery, because we've seen a lot of people burn themselves into the ground with lots of high intensity cardiovascular training, and they have no idea why. Especially your hard-charging executives, decision-makers, surgeons, high-pressure jobs. High pressure, high pressure, high pressure. High ventilatory rate.
High sympathetic drive all day. And then leave straight to the gym. High, high, high, high, high. Probably had a pre-workout. And then guess what? We can't sleep. Stunning, right? So there's a recovery requirement for both pieces there. And they're separate, right? So when we're thinking that higher intensity cardiovascular stuff, we're thinking more systemic, right?
High sympathetic drive all day. And then leave straight to the gym. High, high, high, high, high. Probably had a pre-workout. And then guess what? We can't sleep. Stunning, right? So there's a recovery requirement for both pieces there. And they're separate, right? So when we're thinking that higher intensity cardiovascular stuff, we're thinking more systemic, right?
So now I'm looking at is our overall caloric expenditure there. Do we have recovery time? Are we downregulating throughout the day? Are we not overindulging in stimulants? A whole set of equations over there. From the muscle side, number one, if we're getting excessively sore, we might have issues with our training program.
So now I'm looking at is our overall caloric expenditure there. Do we have recovery time? Are we downregulating throughout the day? Are we not overindulging in stimulants? A whole set of equations over there. From the muscle side, number one, if we're getting excessively sore, we might have issues with our training program.
We shouldn't be getting that sore that often unless you're at a pretty high level. And even then, the research is very clear. The amount of muscle soreness you get after lifting weights has almost no correlation to how much muscle growth you'll get from that workout. So that's the terrible proxy for good or bad workout of how sore I got.
We shouldn't be getting that sore that often unless you're at a pretty high level. And even then, the research is very clear. The amount of muscle soreness you get after lifting weights has almost no correlation to how much muscle growth you'll get from that workout. So that's the terrible proxy for good or bad workout of how sore I got.
There's a fantastic model. that I heard years ago from a friend of mine named Dr. Mike Isretel. And I'm stealing this directly from him. So I'll give him his due credit for that. You can kind of think of three things. Here we go with the list again. In the workout, if you're trying to grow muscle, you should probably feel that muscle.
There's a fantastic model. that I heard years ago from a friend of mine named Dr. Mike Isretel. And I'm stealing this directly from him. So I'll give him his due credit for that. You can kind of think of three things. Here we go with the list again. In the workout, if you're trying to grow muscle, you should probably feel that muscle.
This sounds crazy, but you'd be stunned how many people have tried to say, get a bigger chest and they're benching and they're benching and they're benching and it's, they're never getting a bigger chest from it. And like, are you feeling your chest contract? No.
This sounds crazy, but you'd be stunned how many people have tried to say, get a bigger chest and they're benching and they're benching and they're benching and it's, they're never getting a bigger chest from it. And like, are you feeling your chest contract? No.
Well then for you, that position, the way that your anatomy works, your technique, whatever equipment you're using, it wasn't probably targeting your chest. So then why do we expect your chest to grow? Doesn't mean it has to be maximally contracted, but there's gotta be probably some feeling of it's feeling like it's contracted.
Well then for you, that position, the way that your anatomy works, your technique, whatever equipment you're using, it wasn't probably targeting your chest. So then why do we expect your chest to grow? Doesn't mean it has to be maximally contracted, but there's gotta be probably some feeling of it's feeling like it's contracted.
Number two, you probably want to feel some sort of what we call a pump in there. So after the session, that muscle should look a little bit bigger. It should have contracted, filled with blood, filled with fluids. Like it should look a little bit bigger. Number three, you should feel it something the next day. A little bit tight. Good. Three out of 10 in terms of like how tight, how sore.
Number two, you probably want to feel some sort of what we call a pump in there. So after the session, that muscle should look a little bit bigger. It should have contracted, filled with blood, filled with fluids. Like it should look a little bit bigger. Number three, you should feel it something the next day. A little bit tight. Good. Three out of 10 in terms of like how tight, how sore.
It's probably good. If it's seven, eight, nine out of 10, you may actually be going backwards because you may take so long to recover from that that it's going to compromise the quality of the next training session. If you love the stuff and you're into it, I'll take fives. Five's okay. But more than that, if you're at zero,
It's probably good. If it's seven, eight, nine out of 10, you may actually be going backwards because you may take so long to recover from that that it's going to compromise the quality of the next training session. If you love the stuff and you're into it, I'll take fives. Five's okay. But more than that, if you're at zero,
then I might be thinking, okay, maybe we didn't get actually enough out of that session. Two to three is a really good level of soreness out of that. So we're initially thinking those types of things. So number one, if you're getting excessively sore, my biggest tip for recovery is making sure you're not actually getting too sore to begin with.
then I might be thinking, okay, maybe we didn't get actually enough out of that session. Two to three is a really good level of soreness out of that. So we're initially thinking those types of things. So number one, if you're getting excessively sore, my biggest tip for recovery is making sure you're not actually getting too sore to begin with.
Second one, by far, there's nothing that will land even close to as impactful as even moderate quality sleep. You have to have that. If you look at any of the scientists that work in this area of muscle growth, if you look at many of the people that coach people here, when you start seeing solid progress, you start looking at sleep as your first.
Second one, by far, there's nothing that will land even close to as impactful as even moderate quality sleep. You have to have that. If you look at any of the scientists that work in this area of muscle growth, if you look at many of the people that coach people here, when you start seeing solid progress, you start looking at sleep as your first.
Before you look at supplements, before you look at anything else, you definitely go to sleep.
Before you look at supplements, before you look at anything else, you definitely go to sleep.
And if you see compromises in sleep, you're going to go back to that as your first area of emphasis. And I know people hate to hear that, but I'm telling you, look at the people who are the best in the world at growing muscle. There's a reason that that's like one of the first places they're going after.
And if you see compromises in sleep, you're going to go back to that as your first area of emphasis. And I know people hate to hear that, but I'm telling you, look at the people who are the best in the world at growing muscle. There's a reason that that's like one of the first places they're going after.
So don't get overly sore, number one. Make sure you're prioritizing your sleep. After that, if you want to go to nutrition, we can look at it. Okay, great. Maybe our total caloric intake is low. That's generally where we're going to start. From a protein perspective, oftentimes, as long as it's reasonable. Walk us through the ideal amount of protein we actually need. Yeah.
So don't get overly sore, number one. Make sure you're prioritizing your sleep. After that, if you want to go to nutrition, we can look at it. Okay, great. Maybe our total caloric intake is low. That's generally where we're going to start. From a protein perspective, oftentimes, as long as it's reasonable. Walk us through the ideal amount of protein we actually need. Yeah.
I mean, reasonable is, and this is a heavy ish. by the way, something like one gram per pound of body weight or 2.2 grams per kilo, rough starting point. If you want to go below that, I'm not going to argue. If you want to go below that as in, let's say you're at 0.8, 0.6, I can survive that. That'd be closer to say to like 1.6 grams per kilogram. So 0.6 would be grams per pound, right?
I mean, reasonable is, and this is a heavy ish. by the way, something like one gram per pound of body weight or 2.2 grams per kilo, rough starting point. If you want to go below that, I'm not going to argue. If you want to go below that as in, let's say you're at 0.8, 0.6, I can survive that. That'd be closer to say to like 1.6 grams per kilogram. So 0.6 would be grams per pound, right?
So both units there for you. I can live with that. People can grow muscle like that. No question about it. People can grow muscle very clearly on many food sources, plant-based, animal-based. They're both effective. If you go above that, you don't necessarily guarantee more growth either. And so what we're looking at with protein for most people is like, just be in the stratosphere.
So both units there for you. I can live with that. People can grow muscle like that. No question about it. People can grow muscle very clearly on many food sources, plant-based, animal-based. They're both effective. If you go above that, you don't necessarily guarantee more growth either. And so what we're looking at with protein for most people is like, just be in the stratosphere.
Don't make it your constraint. Don't make it the problem. Once you make it not the problem, then it's probably like going up more. Sometimes that's helped with people, but it's generally not been the thing that has really been like, oh, I was only at one gram per pound and I went to 1.5 and I don't get sore anymore. That can happen, but it's probably not what we're looking at.
Don't make it your constraint. Don't make it the problem. Once you make it not the problem, then it's probably like going up more. Sometimes that's helped with people, but it's generally not been the thing that has really been like, oh, I was only at one gram per pound and I went to 1.5 and I don't get sore anymore. That can happen, but it's probably not what we're looking at.
So it's, again, it's one of those things where like, just don't make it the contractor and you're probably okay.
So it's, again, it's one of those things where like, just don't make it the contractor and you're probably okay.
We got a lot of tricks. We could get you there if you want. Like how? Depends on how you're eating it is why, right? So we can sneak it in in different places. A really good example of this is how many meals do you eat a day roughly? Three meals. Okay, great. So sliding in 25 grams. in between before or after a meal is not as hard as one thinks.
We got a lot of tricks. We could get you there if you want. Like how? Depends on how you're eating it is why, right? So we can sneak it in in different places. A really good example of this is how many meals do you eat a day roughly? Three meals. Okay, great. So sliding in 25 grams. in between before or after a meal is not as hard as one thinks.
If you're trying to eat that in eight ounces of chicken breast, that's going to be uncomfortable. But if we get that in in terms of this is why protein shakes- On plant-based as well, yeah. No problem. We can easily get that. A friend of mine, Dr. Mike Ormsby at Florida State, has been doing research in an area for over 15 years now of protein feeding immediately before bed.
If you're trying to eat that in eight ounces of chicken breast, that's going to be uncomfortable. But if we get that in in terms of this is why protein shakes- On plant-based as well, yeah. No problem. We can easily get that. A friend of mine, Dr. Mike Ormsby at Florida State, has been doing research in an area for over 15 years now of protein feeding immediately before bed.
Now, a lot of people immediately are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? Yeah, that's surprising. 15 years of research in this area, he's tested combinations, men, women, metabolically unhealthy people. And in general, most of his studies point to the same thing. That is? 40 grams of protein about 30 minutes before bed. He's yet to find any disturbances in sleep. Now, this is 40 grams of protein.
Now, a lot of people immediately are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? Yeah, that's surprising. 15 years of research in this area, he's tested combinations, men, women, metabolically unhealthy people. And in general, most of his studies point to the same thing. That is? 40 grams of protein about 30 minutes before bed. He's yet to find any disturbances in sleep. Now, this is 40 grams of protein.
It was 120 to 150, 60 calories. These are not 500 calorie full meals, right? This is a fairly modest amount. Admittedly, I think the best he's done with sleep so far are kind of questionnaires. And so I know one of the things he's working on right now is more high fidelity sleep testing, right? Because this is one of the things, yeah, obviously I'm a, you know, I have a sleep company.
It was 120 to 150, 60 calories. These are not 500 calorie full meals, right? This is a fairly modest amount. Admittedly, I think the best he's done with sleep so far are kind of questionnaires. And so I know one of the things he's working on right now is more high fidelity sleep testing, right? Because this is one of the things, yeah, obviously I'm a, you know, I have a sleep company.
Like I'm very interested in maximizing sleep. So in fairness there, it's plausible. But on the surface so far of all of his studies, he's yet to report any significant disturbances in sleep. What he has reported though, is very little change in things like fat oxidation. So one, there's this misnomer, like if you eat right before bed, your body won't use this, you'll store it all as fat.
Like I'm very interested in maximizing sleep. So in fairness there, it's plausible. But on the surface so far of all of his studies, he's yet to report any significant disturbances in sleep. What he has reported though, is very little change in things like fat oxidation. So one, there's this misnomer, like if you eat right before bed, your body won't use this, you'll store it all as fat.
And he's done so many studies now that I think that door is about to slam shut as possible, that that's just not going to be the case. And so his research is also not indicating some over-the-top advantage for muscle growth. It's not going to increase muscle growth by 25%. None of that's true. It's a modest benefit.
And he's done so many studies now that I think that door is about to slam shut as possible, that that's just not going to be the case. And so his research is also not indicating some over-the-top advantage for muscle growth. It's not going to increase muscle growth by 25%. None of that's true. It's a modest benefit.
So for me, when I summarize his work, I say, okay, look, very little detriment, an opportunity to get in 40 more grams of protein if you're low on your protein targets. So if you're okay on your protein targets, I don't think you need to do this. I don't think there's a huge advantage. But if you're really struggling, this is one of the things that we'll go to.
So for me, when I summarize his work, I say, okay, look, very little detriment, an opportunity to get in 40 more grams of protein if you're low on your protein targets. So if you're okay on your protein targets, I don't think you need to do this. I don't think there's a huge advantage. But if you're really struggling, this is one of the things that we'll go to.
And 30 minutes, by the way, is an arbitrary number. If you go, oh my gosh, I tried that one time and I... Don't do it then. Like, absolutely. There's not worth... There's not a ton of benefit here. And I'm trying to make that really clear, right? I don't like overselling. This is just, hey, there's no detriment, really.
And 30 minutes, by the way, is an arbitrary number. If you go, oh my gosh, I tried that one time and I... Don't do it then. Like, absolutely. There's not worth... There's not a ton of benefit here. And I'm trying to make that really clear, right? I don't like overselling. This is just, hey, there's no detriment, really.
We don't want to like, don't get too lost in detail there, right? The point is, here you go. You had dinner at 6, 6.30, something like that probably. And then maybe a couple of hours later, You want to do whole food, great. In his research, scientifically, he uses protein powders just to control. He's actually used whole food as well. You want to do a yogurt thing.
We don't want to like, don't get too lost in detail there, right? The point is, here you go. You had dinner at 6, 6.30, something like that probably. And then maybe a couple of hours later, You want to do whole food, great. In his research, scientifically, he uses protein powders just to control. He's actually used whole food as well. You want to do a yogurt thing.
You want to do whatever your favorite source protein is. 150, 160 calories. These are not going to all of a sudden massively disrupt your blood flow and stuff like that. I think it's a very viable option. It's not required. No special magic benefit to it. But that's one of the many little tricks we can use to
You want to do whatever your favorite source protein is. 150, 160 calories. These are not going to all of a sudden massively disrupt your blood flow and stuff like that. I think it's a very viable option. It's not required. No special magic benefit to it. But that's one of the many little tricks we can use to
plug in and you kind of put together two or three of those strategies, you'd be surprised 60, 80 grams of protein can kind of come like that. And you're like, oh wow, like that was actually sort of hard.
plug in and you kind of put together two or three of those strategies, you'd be surprised 60, 80 grams of protein can kind of come like that. And you're like, oh wow, like that was actually sort of hard.
I have an old YouTube video up that is called something like post-exercise anabolic window. I think it's like 25 minutes or something. So you want all the details, you can go there. I'll give you the two minute version, right? For those that don't want to do that. The post-exercise anabolic window was this idea that
I have an old YouTube video up that is called something like post-exercise anabolic window. I think it's like 25 minutes or something. So you want all the details, you can go there. I'll give you the two minute version, right? For those that don't want to do that. The post-exercise anabolic window was this idea that
There's this magic, it started off as 30 minutes, window post-exercise where you had to consume your nutrients, specifically carbohydrates and protein, to maximize. And there was good rationale, molecular mechanisms as to why we thought that existed. Summarized many years later, it's very clear that that's just not the case.
There's this magic, it started off as 30 minutes, window post-exercise where you had to consume your nutrients, specifically carbohydrates and protein, to maximize. And there was good rationale, molecular mechanisms as to why we thought that existed. Summarized many years later, it's very clear that that's just not the case.
And so the way you want to think about this is total protein intake throughout the day is going to determine almost all of your variance there. So as long as you hit your total, and even I'll say, Total protein intake throughout the day is not even that important. It's probably thought about as like protein throughout the week.
And so the way you want to think about this is total protein intake throughout the day is going to determine almost all of your variance there. So as long as you hit your total, and even I'll say, Total protein intake throughout the day is not even that important. It's probably thought about as like protein throughout the week.
100%.
100%.
Right? Yeah. You end up having steak for one night and got extra 60 grams of protein. The next night you had a pasta dish. It'll be okay, right? So don't get overly concerned about you were 10 grams low today or 20. Like, you'll be fine, right? So that matters most. There are some exceptions, though.
Right? Yeah. You end up having steak for one night and got extra 60 grams of protein. The next night you had a pasta dish. It'll be okay, right? So don't get overly concerned about you were 10 grams low today or 20. Like, you'll be fine, right? So that matters most. There are some exceptions, though.
When you are performing at a high level of energy expenditure, let's take some of our baseball players. It's not a big deal because the energy expenditure in baseball is not incredibly high for Major League Baseball. NBA players, this is different, though. Our UFC fighters, way different. Our professional boxers, way different. They're training hard twice a day, almost always, right?
When you are performing at a high level of energy expenditure, let's take some of our baseball players. It's not a big deal because the energy expenditure in baseball is not incredibly high for Major League Baseball. NBA players, this is different, though. Our UFC fighters, way different. Our professional boxers, way different. They're training hard twice a day, almost always, right?
Um, golfers a little bit different. So if you're training really, really hard, whether you're an athlete or not, but you're, you're a workout or you're super active, you're on the walking treadmill, you know, you're, you're an endurance, but you'd burn all those calories. Your nutrition window might matter because you may not have enough time to restore muscle glycogen.
Um, golfers a little bit different. So if you're training really, really hard, whether you're an athlete or not, but you're, you're a workout or you're super active, you're on the walking treadmill, you know, you're, you're an endurance, but you'd burn all those calories. Your nutrition window might matter because you may not have enough time to restore muscle glycogen.
Remember you store carbohydrates in your muscle, right? And you'll use some of those during exercise. And if you're doing a lot of hard work, you use a lot of it. And then if you're not consuming nutrients, you just, you kind of run out of time before then the session happens again, four hours later. So in those particular cases, nutrient timing does start to matter.
Remember you store carbohydrates in your muscle, right? And you'll use some of those during exercise. And if you're doing a lot of hard work, you use a lot of it. And then if you're not consuming nutrients, you just, you kind of run out of time before then the session happens again, four hours later. So in those particular cases, nutrient timing does start to matter.
but it's not a magic molecular signaling window so much as it is practical issue of just like you ran out of time to refill those muscle glycogen stores. And so your training for the next session went down because we couldn't refuel. We actually just completed an intermittent fasting study And it was the first of its kind because we were looking specifically at, there's been a lot of research.
but it's not a magic molecular signaling window so much as it is practical issue of just like you ran out of time to refill those muscle glycogen stores. And so your training for the next session went down because we couldn't refuel. We actually just completed an intermittent fasting study And it was the first of its kind because we were looking specifically at, there's been a lot of research.
Grant Tinsley in Texas Tech has done a lot of awesome work and many others on 16-8 intermittent fasting, right? Really, really common. You eat all your calories in an eight-hour window. Let's just say you don't eat breakfast. You start eating at 11 a.m. and you eat dinner at 7, right? Really common thing. Lots of research on that compared to normal feeding, three meals a day, six, five, whatever.
Grant Tinsley in Texas Tech has done a lot of awesome work and many others on 16-8 intermittent fasting, right? Really, really common. You eat all your calories in an eight-hour window. Let's just say you don't eat breakfast. You start eating at 11 a.m. and you eat dinner at 7, right? Really common thing. Lots of research on that compared to normal feeding, three meals a day, six, five, whatever.
And the evidence is pretty clear at this point. Intermittent fasting does nothing particularly special. Doesn't help you lose fat any faster or anything like that. No, not at all. Wow. As long as you equate for protein and you equate for calories, you'll get basically the same result. Wow. Some studies have reported maybe like a half a kilogram extra fat loss, others not.
And the evidence is pretty clear at this point. Intermittent fasting does nothing particularly special. Doesn't help you lose fat any faster or anything like that. No, not at all. Wow. As long as you equate for protein and you equate for calories, you'll get basically the same result. Wow. Some studies have reported maybe like a half a kilogram extra fat loss, others not.
But if you look at the research on aggregate, it's about the same. If it fits your lifestyle, if it helps you be more adherent, tremendous. I'm all for it. That's great. Nothing's super special about it for caloric restriction, right?
But if you look at the research on aggregate, it's about the same. If it fits your lifestyle, if it helps you be more adherent, tremendous. I'm all for it. That's great. Nothing's super special about it for caloric restriction, right?
Probably 15, 20 studies from different labs at this point. So like generally they're all kind of saying the same thing. What we were interested in though is what about if you're trying to grow muscle? What happens, right? Because all those studies have put people in a caloric deficit, trying to lose weight, right? So you bring them down there for the most part or caloric maintenance.
Probably 15, 20 studies from different labs at this point. So like generally they're all kind of saying the same thing. What we were interested in though is what about if you're trying to grow muscle? What happens, right? Because all those studies have put people in a caloric deficit, trying to lose weight, right? So you bring them down there for the most part or caloric maintenance.
So we took young, highly trained people, that were trying to grow muscle. We put them in a caloric surplus. We went way above energy needs, put them on very high protein. One group did 16-8, one group did not. And we did everything. We took muscle biopsies, looked at molecular signaling, genetic signaling, single fibers adaptations. We looked at muscle size. We looked at sleep.
So we took young, highly trained people, that were trying to grow muscle. We put them in a caloric surplus. We went way above energy needs, put them on very high protein. One group did 16-8, one group did not. And we did everything. We took muscle biopsies, looked at molecular signaling, genetic signaling, single fibers adaptations. We looked at muscle size. We looked at sleep.
We looked at digestion. We looked at hunger. We looked at happiness, complaints of how hard or easy the diet was. We looked at all of it. Net result, there were differences. But in terms of muscle growth, about the same. One of the biggest things with the fasting group was there was just a lot of anecdotal like, oh, this is hard. It's just hard. And specifically the problem was carbohydrates.
We looked at digestion. We looked at hunger. We looked at happiness, complaints of how hard or easy the diet was. We looked at all of it. Net result, there were differences. But in terms of muscle growth, about the same. One of the biggest things with the fasting group was there was just a lot of anecdotal like, oh, this is hard. It's just hard. And specifically the problem was carbohydrates.
It was hard for them to get their carbohydrates in without getting a lot of GI distress. We had that come up a number of times. Performance, specifically leg strength,
It was hard for them to get their carbohydrates in without getting a lot of GI distress. We had that come up a number of times. Performance, specifically leg strength,
started to come down in the fasting group and i think we have pretty good rationale to suggest if you're trying to maximize because we were progressively overloading them basically you can imagine this like you're in the gym training and you finish every set this isn't exactly what we did but it gives you the concept you finish every set and let's say you do a leg press at 200 pounds and you do 10 reps okay next time you come in you're going to do 11.
started to come down in the fasting group and i think we have pretty good rationale to suggest if you're trying to maximize because we were progressively overloading them basically you can imagine this like you're in the gym training and you finish every set this isn't exactly what we did but it gives you the concept you finish every set and let's say you do a leg press at 200 pounds and you do 10 reps okay next time you come in you're going to do 11.
If you did 11, next time we're going to do 12. So like every single session, if they were getting, they were going to, so they were training really hard for eight weeks. I just don't think they had the recovery capacity. I think either there was under-reporting Because it was just like, I can't, I'm just going to write the number down, but I can't really eat that food.
If you did 11, next time we're going to do 12. So like every single session, if they were getting, they were going to, so they were training really hard for eight weeks. I just don't think they had the recovery capacity. I think either there was under-reporting Because it was just like, I can't, I'm just going to write the number down, but I can't really eat that food.
That's always possible in like real human studies.
That's always possible in like real human studies.
Or there was actually, and we had in the paper, we have pretty good rationale to think that this is a real finding. So coming all the way back, like if you're trying to maximize strength and muscle gain and you're training really hard, both would work.
Or there was actually, and we had in the paper, we have pretty good rationale to think that this is a real finding. So coming all the way back, like if you're trying to maximize strength and muscle gain and you're training really hard, both would work.
In fact, actually, the intermittent fasting group didn't put on as much fat. So the reality of it is, it's my opinion, this is how science, this is how nutrition really works. One of the reasons I advocated so hard to ask sleep questions, fatigue was higher in the fasting group too.
In fact, actually, the intermittent fasting group didn't put on as much fat. So the reality of it is, it's my opinion, this is how science, this is how nutrition really works. One of the reasons I advocated so hard to ask sleep questions, fatigue was higher in the fasting group too.
Energy got lower.
Energy got lower.
Harder throughout the day, more naps, and actually naps was the same, but just perceived energy got lower towards the end of the study. People go into change. from my worldview, that's exercise, that's nutrition. There's many forms of change though, right? When you go into change, you often do it because you're inspired. You heard something, you heard your podcast.
Harder throughout the day, more naps, and actually naps was the same, but just perceived energy got lower towards the end of the study. People go into change. from my worldview, that's exercise, that's nutrition. There's many forms of change though, right? When you go into change, you often do it because you're inspired. You heard something, you heard your podcast.
You're like, great, I'm going to try that. That sounded awesome. So you go into it with an expectation. The reality of it is very few things are panaceas. So maybe higher protein is better for muscle, but maybe it hurts your digestion. Okay, maybe it hurts your sleep. Maybe it then helps your hormone. I'm making those up. But that's the real honest truth of how it works, right?
You're like, great, I'm going to try that. That sounded awesome. So you go into it with an expectation. The reality of it is very few things are panaceas. So maybe higher protein is better for muscle, but maybe it hurts your digestion. Okay, maybe it hurts your sleep. Maybe it then helps your hormone. I'm making those up. But that's the real honest truth of how it works, right?
You're going to have to make your selections, right? I don't like to be the person of going like, you should optimize for this or that, right? But you should have some knowledge of going, okay, I'm going to choose intermittent fast. Okay. I like it because I get A, B, and C, but then I'm probably going to lose D and B. You're constantly experimenting and figuring it out.
You're going to have to make your selections, right? I don't like to be the person of going like, you should optimize for this or that, right? But you should have some knowledge of going, okay, I'm going to choose intermittent fast. Okay. I like it because I get A, B, and C, but then I'm probably going to lose D and B. You're constantly experimenting and figuring it out.
Okay. This is another one where if you want to get scared, Look at the hydration research. Scared in the sense of you want to pick erectile dysfunction. You want to pick headaches. In fact, there's actually a paper that I just saw a week ago, two weeks ago. Less than, I actually, yeah, I think it was about 1% dehydration.
Okay. This is another one where if you want to get scared, Look at the hydration research. Scared in the sense of you want to pick erectile dysfunction. You want to pick headaches. In fact, there's actually a paper that I just saw a week ago, two weeks ago. Less than, I actually, yeah, I think it was about 1% dehydration.
will reduce cognitive function in a statistically significant manner, right? So if you are less than 1% dehydrated, which is almost functionally impossible for you to notice, you will see clinically meaningful and statistically significant reductions in a number of different markers.
will reduce cognitive function in a statistically significant manner, right? So if you are less than 1% dehydrated, which is almost functionally impossible for you to notice, you will see clinically meaningful and statistically significant reductions in a number of different markers.
This is, when I say cognitive function, I mean, I think, I can't remember honestly specifically this paper, but it's often things like word recall, executive decision-making, short-term memory, Things like that, right? So again, I can't remember the exact metrics in this particular study. So you'll see that. You can pick thermoregulation.
This is, when I say cognitive function, I mean, I think, I can't remember honestly specifically this paper, but it's often things like word recall, executive decision-making, short-term memory, Things like that, right? So again, I can't remember the exact metrics in this particular study. So you'll see that. You can pick thermoregulation.
You can pick, I mentioned sexual function, endocrine health, body composition, sleep. Like you'll run yourself dead worrying about this. That said, it's not as scary as it sounds because when we typically report like 1% dehydration, 2% dehydration, what we're talking about is percentage of your body weight. I'm not like, oh my God, I'm just tiny below optimal, right?
You can pick, I mentioned sexual function, endocrine health, body composition, sleep. Like you'll run yourself dead worrying about this. That said, it's not as scary as it sounds because when we typically report like 1% dehydration, 2% dehydration, what we're talking about is percentage of your body weight. I'm not like, oh my God, I'm just tiny below optimal, right?
You have to be pretty far below optimal to be 1% of your body. Most of your body is water. So to lose 1% of that is a liter or sort of more, right? So that's to say, when we have done this a lot, I'd probably say, I'm making this number up, somewhere between 5% and 15% of our people that we've coached over the years have come in with problems.
You have to be pretty far below optimal to be 1% of your body. Most of your body is water. So to lose 1% of that is a liter or sort of more, right? So that's to say, when we have done this a lot, I'd probably say, I'm making this number up, somewhere between 5% and 15% of our people that we've coached over the years have come in with problems.
And all we had to do is just get their hydration not terrible. This is everything from headaches, constant headaches to brain fog. Brain fog is probably the biggest one. Brain fog and energy are the most common ones. 10%, I'm comfortable saying 10% of the time it's just been a hydration issue. Wow. What is it the other times? Sometimes it is, by the way, sometimes it's overhydration. Interesting.
And all we had to do is just get their hydration not terrible. This is everything from headaches, constant headaches to brain fog. Brain fog is probably the biggest one. Brain fog and energy are the most common ones. 10%, I'm comfortable saying 10% of the time it's just been a hydration issue. Wow. What is it the other times? Sometimes it is, by the way, sometimes it's overhydration. Interesting.
This is just anecdote here. This is not my lab. I don't know the research on this or if it exists or not, but this is just what we've seen. Generally, Women have an issue with overhydration. There's like, my wife and her friends have these like called emotional support models. It's like they go to work or whatever. It's like seven different, a tea and like a recovery drink and their hydration.
This is just anecdote here. This is not my lab. I don't know the research on this or if it exists or not, but this is just what we've seen. Generally, Women have an issue with overhydration. There's like, my wife and her friends have these like called emotional support models. It's like they go to work or whatever. It's like seven different, a tea and like a recovery drink and their hydration.
It's like bottles everywhere, right? I'm talking about you, Dara and Danny. But sometimes that's a case of like, they just consistently drink water, water, water, water. And so they get close to what's called hyponatremia. That's the science word for salt, right? Sodium more specifically and hypo meaning low. So what ends up happening is not that your salt or sodium gets low in your system.
It's like bottles everywhere, right? I'm talking about you, Dara and Danny. But sometimes that's a case of like, they just consistently drink water, water, water, water. And so they get close to what's called hyponatremia. That's the science word for salt, right? Sodium more specifically and hypo meaning low. So what ends up happening is not that your salt or sodium gets low in your system.
By the way, this is actually really common in endurance athletes. And every year somebody dies in an endurance race from hyponatremia. drinking too much pure water. You drink too much pure water, it gets really dilute. Sodium is half of the, well, it's part of the equation rather that causes an electrical gradient that lets muscles contract. Why that kills you is your heart is a muscle.
By the way, this is actually really common in endurance athletes. And every year somebody dies in an endurance race from hyponatremia. drinking too much pure water. You drink too much pure water, it gets really dilute. Sodium is half of the, well, it's part of the equation rather that causes an electrical gradient that lets muscles contract. Why that kills you is your heart is a muscle.
So your heart will stop contracting because there's no gradient difference. There's not a positive and negative charge from one side of the cell to the other side, so it won't contract and transmit electricity. it's not really super common. You're probably not going to die drinking like a little bit of extra water.
So your heart will stop contracting because there's no gradient difference. There's not a positive and negative charge from one side of the cell to the other side, so it won't contract and transmit electricity. it's not really super common. You're probably not going to die drinking like a little bit of extra water.
But if you remember back in the day of, there used to be things like fraternity rushes and things like that where they make the new pledges drink a gallon of water or there's been terrible stories of parents like punishing their kids. And again, it's not really common, but people have died pretty routinely. Really? Yeah, lots of fraternity people died from these like... That's terrible. Yeah.
But if you remember back in the day of, there used to be things like fraternity rushes and things like that where they make the new pledges drink a gallon of water or there's been terrible stories of parents like punishing their kids. And again, it's not really common, but people have died pretty routinely. Really? Yeah, lots of fraternity people died from these like... That's terrible. Yeah.
your heart will stop, right? You get super deluded.
your heart will stop, right? You get super deluded.
So most likely you're not drinking, you're not going to kill yourself, but what you can get is some way up that journey to where electricity, again, I'm kind of screwing up some science here on purpose for communication purposes, but if you can't send electricity from one side of a neuron to the next one, then why are you expecting cognitive function to be at its peak?
So most likely you're not drinking, you're not going to kill yourself, but what you can get is some way up that journey to where electricity, again, I'm kind of screwing up some science here on purpose for communication purposes, but if you can't send electricity from one side of a neuron to the next one, then why are you expecting cognitive function to be at its peak?
So we have seen this again many times. It's not the most common Maybe 10% of people, it's a hydration issue. Of that 10%, probably I'd say 70% are under hydrating. So 30% of that 10, it's a small number, but it is real.
So we have seen this again many times. It's not the most common Maybe 10% of people, it's a hydration issue. Of that 10%, probably I'd say 70% are under hydrating. So 30% of that 10, it's a small number, but it is real.
are just drinking too much and the rest and the rest of that are on the opposite side of the equation right so they're drinking insufficient amounts of water or they're having things that look like dehydration that are this is going to sound funny but they're actually we'll call them anxiety related there's a very clear relationship between hyperventilation and this is resting hyperventilation so if you're sitting there and you don't realize it but your respiratory rate is actually like
are just drinking too much and the rest and the rest of that are on the opposite side of the equation right so they're drinking insufficient amounts of water or they're having things that look like dehydration that are this is going to sound funny but they're actually we'll call them anxiety related there's a very clear relationship between hyperventilation and this is resting hyperventilation so if you're sitting there and you don't realize it but your respiratory rate is actually like
I'm exaggerating, but you're making a point, right? Yes, yes, yes. That can actually put you in a position of where you're actually getting rid of too much carbon dioxide because you're breathing in oxygen, breathing out carbon dioxide. You're getting carbon dioxide concentrations too low in your system. This is going to put you into what's called respiratory alkalosis, okay?
I'm exaggerating, but you're making a point, right? Yes, yes, yes. That can actually put you in a position of where you're actually getting rid of too much carbon dioxide because you're breathing in oxygen, breathing out carbon dioxide. You're getting carbon dioxide concentrations too low in your system. This is going to put you into what's called respiratory alkalosis, okay?
Respiratory alkalosis is oftentimes then matched with metabolic acidosis. So that entire set of equation tries to balance the pH in your system. One of the mechanisms that has to do that is to then start altering how your kidneys resorb and reabsorb electrolytes, salts and things like that, which then alters hydration.
Respiratory alkalosis is oftentimes then matched with metabolic acidosis. So that entire set of equation tries to balance the pH in your system. One of the mechanisms that has to do that is to then start altering how your kidneys resorb and reabsorb electrolytes, salts and things like that, which then alters hydration.
So some of the times this comes back to us going, and again, I'm using anxiety like very inappropriately here, but roughly of saying, oh, okay. This is a hydration issue, but that's not because you're not drinking enough water or having enough salt or whatever the case is. This is the fact that your system is continually trying to dump fluids.
So some of the times this comes back to us going, and again, I'm using anxiety like very inappropriately here, but roughly of saying, oh, okay. This is a hydration issue, but that's not because you're not drinking enough water or having enough salt or whatever the case is. This is the fact that your system is continually trying to dump fluids.
That's the problem we have to come backwards and solve. So we can cover the symptom, give you more salt or... reduce water, something like that. But really, we got to work all the way back to the beginning and say, like, let's stop this problem from reoccurring. That happens really commonly. We see that a bunch in that, you know, 10% sort of people.
That's the problem we have to come backwards and solve. So we can cover the symptom, give you more salt or... reduce water, something like that. But really, we got to work all the way back to the beginning and say, like, let's stop this problem from reoccurring. That happens really commonly. We see that a bunch in that, you know, 10% sort of people.
Yeah, I mean, we get this one a lot. So it's funny. I would say brain fog people, I don't know. Again, I'm making a number up, but it feels to me like 90% of the time they think something unique and special is going on. Some micronutrient is out of whack. They've got some sort of toxic thing floating around. They got a pathogen or gut bacteria thing. And those happen. We see those.
Yeah, I mean, we get this one a lot. So it's funny. I would say brain fog people, I don't know. Again, I'm making a number up, but it feels to me like 90% of the time they think something unique and special is going on. Some micronutrient is out of whack. They've got some sort of toxic thing floating around. They got a pathogen or gut bacteria thing. And those happen. We see those.
And that's a real thing. Mostly, it's the basics. And I really, truly mean that. We have a very high success rate at Arte with brain fog. Really high success rate. And often, the majority of the time, it is the, okay, for you, it might be your sleep is completely dysfunctional. Boom. Maybe you don't realize your sleep is dysfunctional. gone, brain fog gone. Like that's it, right?
And that's a real thing. Mostly, it's the basics. And I really, truly mean that. We have a very high success rate at Arte with brain fog. Really high success rate. And often, the majority of the time, it is the, okay, for you, it might be your sleep is completely dysfunctional. Boom. Maybe you don't realize your sleep is dysfunctional. gone, brain fog gone. Like that's it, right?
Maybe it has nothing to do with your sleep. Your sleep is okay. Maybe it's not great, but it's okay. And your nutrition is really mixed with your physiology. Great. Sometimes it is gut microbiome related. Sometimes we do see heavy metal toxins at high concentrations. Like those things are real. I would say if you don't have access to a program like ours or advanced testing, if you do the basics,
Maybe it has nothing to do with your sleep. Your sleep is okay. Maybe it's not great, but it's okay. And your nutrition is really mixed with your physiology. Great. Sometimes it is gut microbiome related. Sometimes we do see heavy metal toxins at high concentrations. Like those things are real. I would say if you don't have access to a program like ours or advanced testing, if you do the basics,
Really get your stress management under control. Quality water, like really all that stuff. And I'm really trying to emphasize that because that's mostly free stuff. You don't need to turn to coaching. You don't need to turn to a stool sample. You don't need to turn to a blood test. You don't need to buy supplements yet. Get your house in order with movement, sunlight, quality food.
Really get your stress management under control. Quality water, like really all that stuff. And I'm really trying to emphasize that because that's mostly free stuff. You don't need to turn to coaching. You don't need to turn to a stool sample. You don't need to turn to a blood test. You don't need to buy supplements yet. Get your house in order with movement, sunlight, quality food.
A large percentage of your brain fog is probably going to go away. if you've tried that and haven't had success, maybe you can take additional steps, but really we've had, we joke sometimes that like, we've had a lot of people spend a lot of money and we're like,
A large percentage of your brain fog is probably going to go away. if you've tried that and haven't had success, maybe you can take additional steps, but really we've had, we joke sometimes that like, we've had a lot of people spend a lot of money and we're like,
you knew the answer yeah we told you this coming in and you so past that it can be micronutrient related there's no question about that um there's hey everyone we want to tell you about our podcast hi i'm daniel i'm a particle physicist and i think our universe is absolutely extraordinary
you knew the answer yeah we told you this coming in and you so past that it can be micronutrient related there's no question about that um there's hey everyone we want to tell you about our podcast hi i'm daniel i'm a particle physicist and i think our universe is absolutely extraordinary
You see that pretty routinely. That can look like all kinds of different stuff. I'm wishing there was like one or two I could pull out and say, Jay, it's usually B6 or B12. It's not the honest answer though. It has come up, but like sometimes it's honestly, it's super sporadic.
You see that pretty routinely. That can look like all kinds of different stuff. I'm wishing there was like one or two I could pull out and say, Jay, it's usually B6 or B12. It's not the honest answer though. It has come up, but like sometimes it's honestly, it's super sporadic.
If you get your breathing in order though, if you get stress in order, you get reasonably close with hydration, reasonably close with quality foods. and see some sun, like most of you will probably see really significant improvements.
If you get your breathing in order though, if you get stress in order, you get reasonably close with hydration, reasonably close with quality foods. and see some sun, like most of you will probably see really significant improvements.
What do you prioritize? Well, I have a family. I have five companies and I have a research lab. So let's answer with your, your quadrant. Oh, my quadrant.
What do you prioritize? Well, I have a family. I have five companies and I have a research lab. So let's answer with your, your quadrant. Oh, my quadrant.
Okay. Start there. Yeah, no. So that's actually really cool. Um, cause I, I do this practice. Just moved my family pretty recently, moved my lab. So now my lab is in, I'm at Parker University in Dallas, Texas. We're building a 65,000 square foot human performance center. It's going to be open to the public. So really, really excited about that. That's dope.
Okay. Start there. Yeah, no. So that's actually really cool. Um, cause I, I do this practice. Just moved my family pretty recently, moved my lab. So now my lab is in, I'm at Parker University in Dallas, Texas. We're building a 65,000 square foot human performance center. It's going to be open to the public. So really, really excited about that. That's dope.
We're going to be able to do a lot of testing and stuff in there. Graduate students, a lot of research in there. We have a cool visitor center. That's going to be a part of it. I'm just like so stoked to be- Congrats, man. That's awesome. Thank you, man. So that all happened this quarter.
We're going to be able to do a lot of testing and stuff in there. Graduate students, a lot of research in there. We have a cool visitor center. That's going to be a part of it. I'm just like so stoked to be- Congrats, man. That's awesome. Thank you, man. So that all happened this quarter.
And then my sleep company, Absolute Rest, our blood work company, Vitality, and our coaching program, all this stuff came up. So this quarter is, it was quite frankly, a seven in business. And- I have to give a huge shout out to my wife because like we knew coming into this quarter, I'm like, this is going to be rough.
And then my sleep company, Absolute Rest, our blood work company, Vitality, and our coaching program, all this stuff came up. So this quarter is, it was quite frankly, a seven in business. And- I have to give a huge shout out to my wife because like we knew coming into this quarter, I'm like, this is going to be rough.
I'm not going to say she hasn't complained at all, but for the most part, so my fitness has been a one. The lowest it's probably been in my memory. I'm doing the best I can. My coach, Tim, is sort of like, geez, are you ever going to train? I'm like, I'm doing sort of the best I can. The rest of it's one, right? So it's one, one, one, all category. Recovery, one. Relationships, one.
I'm not going to say she hasn't complained at all, but for the most part, so my fitness has been a one. The lowest it's probably been in my memory. I'm doing the best I can. My coach, Tim, is sort of like, geez, are you ever going to train? I'm like, I'm doing sort of the best I can. The rest of it's one, right? So it's one, one, one, all category. Recovery, one. Relationships, one.
My relationships, personal things like that have been almost non-existent, very intentionally. That said, I'm super stoked because I'm about, well, in fact, when I leave here, I'm going to be spending about seven straight days with nothing but family.
My relationships, personal things like that have been almost non-existent, very intentionally. That said, I'm super stoked because I'm about, well, in fact, when I leave here, I'm going to be spending about seven straight days with nothing but family.
So I'm paying that back. When the new quarter comes and when we start off that, that's going to go back down to five from a business perspective. And that's all going to come back up in training. So I'm super stoked to get back after it. But we made this decision in early summer. Just it's the unfortunate thing of
So I'm paying that back. When the new quarter comes and when we start off that, that's going to go back down to five from a business perspective. And that's all going to come back up in training. So I'm super stoked to get back after it. But we made this decision in early summer. Just it's the unfortunate thing of
like the lab move and our family move and two of our companies really taking off, like really taking off. And I was like, I see where this is going and I'm just going to set expectations personally.
like the lab move and our family move and two of our companies really taking off, like really taking off. And I was like, I see where this is going and I'm just going to set expectations personally.
So I have different phases is what I do, right? Now, one of my biggest things I look forward to every year, my dad, my brother and I always go on a hunting trip in the fall, right? Like all kinds of stuff. This year we were up in about 10,000 feet elevation in Western Wyoming and we're running up and down the hills basically the whole time.
So I have different phases is what I do, right? Now, one of my biggest things I look forward to every year, my dad, my brother and I always go on a hunting trip in the fall, right? Like all kinds of stuff. This year we were up in about 10,000 feet elevation in Western Wyoming and we're running up and down the hills basically the whole time.
So I will generally schedule my entire year around that phase, which means prior to that, it was a lot more long duration, rucking, moving, training, things like that. not emphasizing muscle growth, not emphasizing even like VO2 max or anything like that. I need to be able to handle the mountain and I need to be able to handle my respiration and the elevation. So I'm geared towards that.
So I will generally schedule my entire year around that phase, which means prior to that, it was a lot more long duration, rucking, moving, training, things like that. not emphasizing muscle growth, not emphasizing even like VO2 max or anything like that. I need to be able to handle the mountain and I need to be able to handle my respiration and the elevation. So I'm geared towards that.
Coming back off of that trip, then I knew this quarter was going to be awful. So this quarter was just about moving. I'm trying to move. I did a little workout yesterday in the hotel room. Today, all I basically got in was sauna for the most part, right? No time. And I had, well, that's a lie. I did a bath. I did a bath in the hotel rooms, like the best I could come up with. I had no break.
Coming back off of that trip, then I knew this quarter was going to be awful. So this quarter was just about moving. I'm trying to move. I did a little workout yesterday in the hotel room. Today, all I basically got in was sauna for the most part, right? No time. And I had, well, that's a lie. I did a bath. I did a bath in the hotel rooms, like the best I could come up with. I had no break.
I'm eating and I'm like, I can get a 15 minute hot bath in and like sweat. move throughout the day. Okay. That's how it is now. When I go back to start off after this refresher here, it's generally going to look something like this. I'm mostly going to be lifting weights three to four times per week.
I'm eating and I'm like, I can get a 15 minute hot bath in and like sweat. move throughout the day. Okay. That's how it is now. When I go back to start off after this refresher here, it's generally going to look something like this. I'm mostly going to be lifting weights three to four times per week.
And I don't ever have a Monday is legs, Tuesday is arms, things like that, because that's never going to happen. I just have the next workout and I get that thing done the next time it's available. So I don't actually have like seven day routines. I just have a thing I'm trying to get done over across 90 days.
And I don't ever have a Monday is legs, Tuesday is arms, things like that, because that's never going to happen. I just have the next workout and I get that thing done the next time it's available. So I don't actually have like seven day routines. I just have a thing I'm trying to get done over across 90 days.
And so what that ends up looking like is generally like 70 workouts I try to get done in 90 days. Sometimes that's nine or 10 or 11 days in a row because I like have the space and then I know I'm going to have two workouts in eight days. Right. So I'm just like, if I have a chance to train, I'm going to train because I know like schedule is going to eat me right now. So I do that.
And so what that ends up looking like is generally like 70 workouts I try to get done in 90 days. Sometimes that's nine or 10 or 11 days in a row because I like have the space and then I know I'm going to have two workouts in eight days. Right. So I'm just like, if I have a chance to train, I'm going to train because I know like schedule is going to eat me right now. So I do that.
So generally three to four days a week of lifting, generally one to two days a week of trying to move a ton. This could be a lot of steps up and down the mountain where I live. This could be, I will do many of my meetings where like people always laugh at me because I'm just going to like pace back and forth. I love pacing when I work. So I'm just like trying to accrue movement throughout the day.
So generally three to four days a week of lifting, generally one to two days a week of trying to move a ton. This could be a lot of steps up and down the mountain where I live. This could be, I will do many of my meetings where like people always laugh at me because I'm just going to like pace back and forth. I love pacing when I work. So I'm just like trying to accrue movement throughout the day.
And then something at least once a week, like I said earlier, where I touch maximum possible heart rate and a lot of different varieties. The last probably year or so of lifting specifically has been probably the most frustrating year of more like almost a year and a half now, because I made a conscious decision of saying, you know, I feel good.
And then something at least once a week, like I said earlier, where I touch maximum possible heart rate and a lot of different varieties. The last probably year or so of lifting specifically has been probably the most frustrating year of more like almost a year and a half now, because I made a conscious decision of saying, you know, I feel good.
Everything's great, but I need to be thinking about the next 60 years. And so I have a couple of little asymmetries and a couple of little things that I know are not moving how they should be moving. So I have a coach and all of my programming is just correcting those things. So the workouts are just infuriating because it's all the stuff you suck at.
Everything's great, but I need to be thinking about the next 60 years. And so I have a couple of little asymmetries and a couple of little things that I know are not moving how they should be moving. So I have a coach and all of my programming is just correcting those things. So the workouts are just infuriating because it's all the stuff you suck at.
It's none of the stuff that like feels these big rewarding things out of it. But it is a saying it's me stepping back and going, what if you spend a year? What if you spend a year? And you weren't trying to maximize growth or maximize strength, but you're really trying to maximize joint health and function. Would you regret that 40 years from now? I doubt it. Right?
It's none of the stuff that like feels these big rewarding things out of it. But it is a saying it's me stepping back and going, what if you spend a year? What if you spend a year? And you weren't trying to maximize growth or maximize strength, but you're really trying to maximize joint health and function. Would you regret that 40 years from now? I doubt it. Right?
And so it was just like looking back and going, let's run the counterfactual. What if you didn't do that? you probably regret it.
And so it was just like looking back and going, let's run the counterfactual. What if you didn't do that? you probably regret it.
So then you make that choice. So lifting for me specifically the last year has just been like, so not fun. But like, that's the conscious decision I made of investing in myself. So yeah. Thanks for the honesty, man. Yeah, man.
So then you make that choice. So lifting for me specifically the last year has just been like, so not fun. But like, that's the conscious decision I made of investing in myself. So yeah. Thanks for the honesty, man. Yeah, man.
Sure.
Sure.
It's always a practice, right?
It's always a practice, right?
You can work out at night, but you want to just be careful of how much is disrupting your sleep and what type of workout you're doing. Especially if your day is laid out. The example I think I gave earlier was really high intensity, sympathetic fight or flight type of day. If you're then always matching that with additional sympathetic drive, some people that's okay.
You can work out at night, but you want to just be careful of how much is disrupting your sleep and what type of workout you're doing. Especially if your day is laid out. The example I think I gave earlier was really high intensity, sympathetic fight or flight type of day. If you're then always matching that with additional sympathetic drive, some people that's okay.
But a lot of people in our experiences, that has been their quote unquote root cause of fill in the blank, right? So low testosterone, brain fog, sleep, sort of like, okay, when you're on gas pedal all day, maybe for you right now, Your exercise needs to be a little bit more restorative rather than the opposite. It's not always the case though. I train at night with generally no issues whatsoever.
But a lot of people in our experiences, that has been their quote unquote root cause of fill in the blank, right? So low testosterone, brain fog, sleep, sort of like, okay, when you're on gas pedal all day, maybe for you right now, Your exercise needs to be a little bit more restorative rather than the opposite. It's not always the case though. I train at night with generally no issues whatsoever.
I like it. I almost always train at the end of the day. So it can be just fine. Got it. Just be mindful of, if you're looking at your system and going, okay, great. I can do really high intensity stuff. I can do, we've like, our sleep technology is pretty outrageous. So I can verifiably say these things. I can do lots of stimulatory stuff. I can watch Lord of the Rings in 8K on a 90 inch screen.
I like it. I almost always train at the end of the day. So it can be just fine. Got it. Just be mindful of, if you're looking at your system and going, okay, great. I can do really high intensity stuff. I can do, we've like, our sleep technology is pretty outrageous. So I can verifiably say these things. I can do lots of stimulatory stuff. I can watch Lord of the Rings in 8K on a 90 inch screen.
I don't have this, but like right in front of my face. A minute before bed. And I have zero issues with blue light. I have zero issues with stimulation. That's just how you're wired. Sleep architecture is going to be fine. Sleep duration, sleep quality, the amount of time, the depth within each sleep phase. I track all these every night, right? No change for me.
I don't have this, but like right in front of my face. A minute before bed. And I have zero issues with blue light. I have zero issues with stimulation. That's just how you're wired. Sleep architecture is going to be fine. Sleep duration, sleep quality, the amount of time, the depth within each sleep phase. I track all these every night, right? No change for me.
So intensity of exercise is going to have no bearing on me personally. But that's for you specifically, yeah. Totally. What I've seen, though, for a lot of our people... is not always, but many people it's the opposite, where we have to be a little bit more mindful. And so what we might have to do is say, okay, we can train, but your training has to look like this.
So intensity of exercise is going to have no bearing on me personally. But that's for you specifically, yeah. Totally. What I've seen, though, for a lot of our people... is not always, but many people it's the opposite, where we have to be a little bit more mindful. And so what we might have to do is say, okay, we can train, but your training has to look like this.
We have to redefine what training is for you. We have to do our higher intensity stuff earlier or at minimum, and this is what we do for our athletes because they don't have an option. They have to, their competition is at night, right? NBA plays at seven o'clock or you get the idea. Let's at least match the high intensity work with down regulation post-exercise.
We have to redefine what training is for you. We have to do our higher intensity stuff earlier or at minimum, and this is what we do for our athletes because they don't have an option. They have to, their competition is at night, right? NBA plays at seven o'clock or you get the idea. Let's at least match the high intensity work with down regulation post-exercise.
If we just walk off the court or walk out of the gym and go, right, now we finally see our kids for the day or whatever. You're just asking for disaster here. Give me five minutes. Three to seven is what I say. Give me three to seven minutes. Can we downregulate a little bit? And we have really found that can give us 80% of what we need to get. It's not 100%, but...
If we just walk off the court or walk out of the gym and go, right, now we finally see our kids for the day or whatever. You're just asking for disaster here. Give me five minutes. Three to seven is what I say. Give me three to seven minutes. Can we downregulate a little bit? And we have really found that can give us 80% of what we need to get. It's not 100%, but...
If all those things are your fuse, you're like, that's it, that's my only time of day and I'm not giving up my, okay, fine. Give me my five minutes post-training. You can do this in a car. You can do this in a locker room or wherever it is. Lights down, cover your face with our athletes will put just their shirt or their towel over their face, lie on your back.
If all those things are your fuse, you're like, that's it, that's my only time of day and I'm not giving up my, okay, fine. Give me my five minutes post-training. You can do this in a car. You can do this in a locker room or wherever it is. Lights down, cover your face with our athletes will put just their shirt or their towel over their face, lie on your back.
I would love to give you a specific and highly designed down regulation breath work routine. That's our gold standard. But if you can't do that or won't do that, Just give me the other stuff. Fine. Just breathe through your nose. All right. You want to do a double extended exhale. So you want to do a cadence, like a four second inhale, eight second exhale.
I would love to give you a specific and highly designed down regulation breath work routine. That's our gold standard. But if you can't do that or won't do that, Just give me the other stuff. Fine. Just breathe through your nose. All right. You want to do a double extended exhale. So you want to do a cadence, like a four second inhale, eight second exhale.
Generally the longer you're exhaling, the more down regulatory it is like, Oh, okay, great. Like we have lots of protocols. We can go into tons of customized breathing programs. We do that a lot, but if not, can you make it as simple as go sit in your car, close your eyes and just breathe through your nose, set a timer for four minutes. that actually is a stunning amount of effectiveness to that.
Generally the longer you're exhaling, the more down regulatory it is like, Oh, okay, great. Like we have lots of protocols. We can go into tons of customized breathing programs. We do that a lot, but if not, can you make it as simple as go sit in your car, close your eyes and just breathe through your nose, set a timer for four minutes. that actually is a stunning amount of effectiveness to that.
Yeah. You'd be surprised. It might not be enough for you. You might have to do 15 or 20 minutes or it might not work at all, but give it a go. You might, we've seen enough. It might work.
Yeah. You'd be surprised. It might not be enough for you. You might have to do 15 or 20 minutes or it might not work at all, but give it a go. You might, we've seen enough. It might work.
So when you get into situations like that, whether it's PCOS, whether it's just simply really difficult menstrual cycles to manage, whether it's a menopause or, you know, I don't know if we're going through it, things like that. This area of research is so tricky because symptomology is so wide ranging. Defining menopause is...
So when you get into situations like that, whether it's PCOS, whether it's just simply really difficult menstrual cycles to manage, whether it's a menopause or, you know, I don't know if we're going through it, things like that. This area of research is so tricky because symptomology is so wide ranging. Defining menopause is...
uh physiologically easy but even understanding you know it could be six months or 10 years like it's a really hard thing symptoms are up and down the menstrual cycle alone independent pcos you're adding on top of those things i have yet to see a clear-cut specific this is better got it And just sort of like, if you want to follow some guidelines and you're feeling better, I'm all in.
uh physiologically easy but even understanding you know it could be six months or 10 years like it's a really hard thing symptoms are up and down the menstrual cycle alone independent pcos you're adding on top of those things i have yet to see a clear-cut specific this is better got it And just sort of like, if you want to follow some guidelines and you're feeling better, I'm all in.
Like, that's great. If not, though, I don't have a specific thing that says you have to do this this way. We are yet to give women different styles of training while we're here. We don't train them differently just because they're women. We don't do anything different throughout the menstrual cycle with training or nutrition just because they're women.
Like, that's great. If not, though, I don't have a specific thing that says you have to do this this way. We are yet to give women different styles of training while we're here. We don't train them differently just because they're women. We don't do anything different throughout the menstrual cycle with training or nutrition just because they're women.
We do everything that's based on the individual. So if we need to do such stuff, we absolutely will. But we do not walk them in and saying, oh, okay, our women do this style of training. Our men do this. We absolutely do not. And I know that wasn't what you're asking.
We do everything that's based on the individual. So if we need to do such stuff, we absolutely will. But we do not walk them in and saying, oh, okay, our women do this style of training. Our men do this. We absolutely do not. And I know that wasn't what you're asking.
Yes. Men and women have massive differences, and we're always going to acknowledge and pay attention to those things. But I'm always coaching you. What are the differences that people should be aware of? You have clear hormonal differences generally, right?
Yes. Men and women have massive differences, and we're always going to acknowledge and pay attention to those things. But I'm always coaching you. What are the differences that people should be aware of? You have clear hormonal differences generally, right?
One of the things that we have seen in our research, and I would say it's held true in our coaching practices, a lot of the times women handle volume better from an exercise perspective, right? And when I say handle, I mean you can give them more reps, more sets. They can train more often. Their recovery's faster. The other way you can flip that. Why is that?
One of the things that we have seen in our research, and I would say it's held true in our coaching practices, a lot of the times women handle volume better from an exercise perspective, right? And when I say handle, I mean you can give them more reps, more sets. They can train more often. Their recovery's faster. The other way you can flip that. Why is that?
Well, we've actually done some work here, and nobody really knows. I noticed that with my wife. My wife's like that. Yeah. Honestly, it's pretty true. My friend Brett Contreras made a really awesome post recently, and I'm like, wow, this is great. Specifically on this point. Again, I want to give him credit because I'm like, oh, actually, he nailed this.
Well, we've actually done some work here, and nobody really knows. I noticed that with my wife. My wife's like that. Yeah. Honestly, it's pretty true. My friend Brett Contreras made a really awesome post recently, and I'm like, wow, this is great. Specifically on this point. Again, I want to give him credit because I'm like, oh, actually, he nailed this.
When people say things like, oh, we don't train men and women differently, like I just said, I generally hear that and go, okay, you never train women. Like, you never train women if you're going to say that. That's exactly what Brett's post was. I'm like, okay. Because honestly, we sort of do. Now, walking in, we do not, but I know that oftentimes we can bring the volume up.
When people say things like, oh, we don't train men and women differently, like I just said, I generally hear that and go, okay, you never train women. Like, you never train women if you're going to say that. That's exactly what Brett's post was. I'm like, okay. Because honestly, we sort of do. Now, walking in, we do not, but I know that oftentimes we can bring the volume up.
Also, it oftentimes means they need more volume. Not always, but I'm hedging quickly of going, okay, we got to start probably thinking more volume here. And if we're not getting responses as quickly as you want, we're pretty quick to just go to volume. And it oftentimes when, oftentimes men that'll go the other direction.
Also, it oftentimes means they need more volume. Not always, but I'm hedging quickly of going, okay, we got to start probably thinking more volume here. And if we're not getting responses as quickly as you want, we're pretty quick to just go to volume. And it oftentimes when, oftentimes men that'll go the other direction.
When it comes to performance to women, because of that generally don't need as much of a taper. They don't need to have, they don't have to back off as much to get that super compensation, that, that peaking day. Okay. Again, these are very broad generalizations, right? We're always coaching the individual. Yeah, we can't get specific without an avatar in front of us. Exactly.
When it comes to performance to women, because of that generally don't need as much of a taper. They don't need to have, they don't have to back off as much to get that super compensation, that, that peaking day. Okay. Again, these are very broad generalizations, right? We're always coaching the individual. Yeah, we can't get specific without an avatar in front of us. Exactly.
So those are some ones that we kind of like pop out to immediately where we see differences. I've coached world champion females in probably six or more sports at this point. So we've done powerlifting and UFC and a bunch of different sports, wrestling. I can also say most often women are more in tune with their body than men. They generally give better feedback.
So those are some ones that we kind of like pop out to immediately where we see differences. I've coached world champion females in probably six or more sports at this point. So we've done powerlifting and UFC and a bunch of different sports, wrestling. I can also say most often women are more in tune with their body than men. They generally give better feedback.
If you go ask one of our male athletes, like, how are you feeling today? Like, I know what they're going to say. Pretty good coach. Like, whatever. Where women are more likely to be like, oh, I feel pretty good, but back's a little bit tighter here. Energy's just a touchdown. You're like, oh. And they're really in tune with this thing just a little bit off over here.
If you go ask one of our male athletes, like, how are you feeling today? Like, I know what they're going to say. Pretty good coach. Like, whatever. Where women are more likely to be like, oh, I feel pretty good, but back's a little bit tighter here. Energy's just a touchdown. You're like, oh. And they're really in tune with this thing just a little bit off over here.
Men are like kind of blunt instruments. A lot of the times women will be more responsive to changes in caloric intake, where again, men are a little more robust to those things. So you have to be really careful. You have to be really careful of lowering calories too much, too long for women. You gotta be careful not in men, but you can get away with it. Yeah. A little bit more.
Men are like kind of blunt instruments. A lot of the times women will be more responsive to changes in caloric intake, where again, men are a little more robust to those things. So you have to be really careful. You have to be really careful of lowering calories too much, too long for women. You gotta be careful not in men, but you can get away with it. Yeah. A little bit more.
So when it comes to just sort of these generalities, those are the ones that pop up the most. Some things that are counterintuitive, actually, since we're here. And there's a lot of research on this that I'd say empirically, our coaching practice, scientifically. We actually just published a meta-analysis. I was a co-author on this one. So somebody else led this one.
So when it comes to just sort of these generalities, those are the ones that pop up the most. Some things that are counterintuitive, actually, since we're here. And there's a lot of research on this that I'd say empirically, our coaching practice, scientifically. We actually just published a meta-analysis. I was a co-author on this one. So somebody else led this one.
But you don't really see much of a difference in rate of increase between men and women in terms of strength and muscle. It's not that different. You grow at about the same relative rate. It's just that men are generally bigger. So if you both gain 10%, your absolute amount is far much higher. So it looks like you just got it there.
But you don't really see much of a difference in rate of increase between men and women in terms of strength and muscle. It's not that different. You grow at about the same relative rate. It's just that men are generally bigger. So if you both gain 10%, your absolute amount is far much higher. So it looks like you just got it there.
There are some subtle differences there within that meta-analysis. You can read the details if you're a nerd like that. But the take-home message for that is it's pretty much the same. And I would say our coaching experience has seen that. We don't see women... on average, struggling to put on more muscle relative to men or strength.
There are some subtle differences there within that meta-analysis. You can read the details if you're a nerd like that. But the take-home message for that is it's pretty much the same. And I would say our coaching experience has seen that. We don't see women... on average, struggling to put on more muscle relative to men or strength.
If the training and the nutrition and all the other factors are equal, they're going to progress pretty much equally for a long period of time. The last one that would jump out to me is on a similar note there is we generally see women through aging are a little bit more successful against joint injury.
If the training and the nutrition and all the other factors are equal, they're going to progress pretty much equally for a long period of time. The last one that would jump out to me is on a similar note there is we generally see women through aging are a little bit more successful against joint injury.
Men are going to be a little more banged up for the most part. So I think that's a believable story too. I don't know why, but well, I can, I can guess. A little more aggressive, probably worse decision-making, but you get it. So categorically, those would be some of the differences.
Men are going to be a little more banged up for the most part. So I think that's a believable story too. I don't know why, but well, I can, I can guess. A little more aggressive, probably worse decision-making, but you get it. So categorically, those would be some of the differences.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The notion of adaptability and plasticity is far greater than people realize. Your genetics play a big part, of course, but your lifestyle is far more important to your end story than your genetics. So you have the ability, the capacity within reach to make a significant improvement in any aspect of that look, feel, perform that you choose. Some work there, but you have autonomy in your body.
The notion of adaptability and plasticity is far greater than people realize. Your genetics play a big part, of course, but your lifestyle is far more important to your end story than your genetics. So you have the ability, the capacity within reach to make a significant improvement in any aspect of that look, feel, perform that you choose. Some work there, but you have autonomy in your body.
Oh boy. I'm going to cheat with my answer here and give a antithesis to my first answer, which is the idea that there is a certain food you can or can't eat, that all of us in humanity have to be eating or sleeping or training or living a certain way, or we're going to be unhealthy. That is colossally untrue, unfair, and unhelpful.
Oh boy. I'm going to cheat with my answer here and give a antithesis to my first answer, which is the idea that there is a certain food you can or can't eat, that all of us in humanity have to be eating or sleeping or training or living a certain way, or we're going to be unhealthy. That is colossally untrue, unfair, and unhelpful.
This will sound a little bit counterintuitive, but a large portion of your resting metabolic rate, your metabolism is defined by how much muscle you have. So getting those last few pounds off the belly, maybe try to put some muscle on.
This will sound a little bit counterintuitive, but a large portion of your resting metabolic rate, your metabolism is defined by how much muscle you have. So getting those last few pounds off the belly, maybe try to put some muscle on.
My guess is you've already done everything else. So try that option.
My guess is you've already done everything else. So try that option.
I have a lot of answers. I've been... Open, honest, probably should do more about things that change. I was very against cardiovascular exercise. I thought, like, strength training is the only thing you need to do. That's very wrong. I was also very against... low carbohydrate diets in any form. I was very against intermittent fasting.
I have a lot of answers. I've been... Open, honest, probably should do more about things that change. I was very against cardiovascular exercise. I thought, like, strength training is the only thing you need to do. That's very wrong. I was also very against... low carbohydrate diets in any form. I was very against intermittent fasting.
And I think I wasn't totally wrong on that, but those are viable strategies for most people. They're not perfect for all goals, but those things are options. So I'd say those three specific ones, but in general, I was simply too closed-minded about assuming I knew what everyone wanted in terms of the outcome and the goal.
And I think I wasn't totally wrong on that, but those are viable strategies for most people. They're not perfect for all goals, but those things are options. So I'd say those three specific ones, but in general, I was simply too closed-minded about assuming I knew what everyone wanted in terms of the outcome and the goal.
When you do that, you start limiting options and you are working too much off of hubris. The more you realize people are looking for different things, then you start to realize, oh, okay, these are potentially acceptable. They just aren't going to get to where I thought everyone wanted to go. And that was not the appropriate approach.
When you do that, you start limiting options and you are working too much off of hubris. The more you realize people are looking for different things, then you start to realize, oh, okay, these are potentially acceptable. They just aren't going to get to where I thought everyone wanted to go. And that was not the appropriate approach.
So all of your questions, by the way, I'm on like sentence nine. Yeah.
So all of your questions, by the way, I'm on like sentence nine. Yeah.
You know, what's quite funny about this answer is I literally sent a tweet out yesterday that said, I think we should make it illegal for people to recline their seats on airplanes. Yeah.
You know, what's quite funny about this answer is I literally sent a tweet out yesterday that said, I think we should make it illegal for people to recline their seats on airplanes. Yeah.
No, not because you're smashing into my lap and I can't work.
No, not because you're smashing into my lap and I can't work.
Yeah, I'm like, plane time is perfect work time. Got it.
Yeah, I'm like, plane time is perfect work time. Got it.
No, man, I hate it. So my cheeky answer here would be I'd make it illegal to recline seats on airplanes. I love it.
No, man, I hate it. So my cheeky answer here would be I'd make it illegal to recline seats on airplanes. I love it.
the science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life. Welcome to Perform. I'm Dr. Andy Galpin. I'm a professor and scientist and the executive director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University. And today we're going to be talking about how to control your nervous system. My favorite example of this actually comes from a TV show.
the science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life. Welcome to Perform. I'm Dr. Andy Galpin. I'm a professor and scientist and the executive director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University. And today we're going to be talking about how to control your nervous system. My favorite example of this actually comes from a TV show.
Many of you probably remember the show, The Office, at least the American version. And I'll never forget one of the classic scenes, one of the characters, Dwight Schrute, was telling and bragging actually about how he had superior genes and he was able to, at his own will, raise his blood cholesterol levels.
Many of you probably remember the show, The Office, at least the American version. And I'll never forget one of the classic scenes, one of the characters, Dwight Schrute, was telling and bragging actually about how he had superior genes and he was able to, at his own will, raise his blood cholesterol levels.
And of course, the bewildered friends of his asked him, why would you even want to do that? And his response in classic Dwight fashion was so that he could lower his cholesterol. That had made me laugh and I've never stopped laughing at that. And it highlights one example, albeit admittedly, not sure why you would want to do that or if that's real or not.
And of course, the bewildered friends of his asked him, why would you even want to do that? And his response in classic Dwight fashion was so that he could lower his cholesterol. That had made me laugh and I've never stopped laughing at that. And it highlights one example, albeit admittedly, not sure why you would want to do that or if that's real or not.
But it highlights the point of how can we actually have control over aspects of our physiology that most people think we can't. Maybe we have some control, but it's subconscious or otherwise. And that's what I'm referring to when I say control your nervous system. There is actually a bunch of science behind this. Probably the most famous initial scientifically documented experiment came in 1970.
But it highlights the point of how can we actually have control over aspects of our physiology that most people think we can't. Maybe we have some control, but it's subconscious or otherwise. And that's what I'm referring to when I say control your nervous system. There is actually a bunch of science behind this. Probably the most famous initial scientifically documented experiment came in 1970.
There was a famous gentleman, I think his name is Swami Rama. I hope I pronounced that appropriately. But Swami was able to do a host of feats that still baffle most of us. What eventually happened was he sat in a room with a handful of scientists, and they placed what are called ECGs to measure electrical conductivity of his heart, as well as EEGs to measure directly into his brain.
There was a famous gentleman, I think his name is Swami Rama. I hope I pronounced that appropriately. But Swami was able to do a host of feats that still baffle most of us. What eventually happened was he sat in a room with a handful of scientists, and they placed what are called ECGs to measure electrical conductivity of his heart, as well as EEGs to measure directly into his brain.
And he performed, again, this whole host of insane physiological feats without moving. Now that part's critical, right?
And he performed, again, this whole host of insane physiological feats without moving. Now that part's critical, right?
So when he did things like take his resting heart rate from 70 beats per minute to reportedly 300 beats per minute, and he held that for several seconds and then brought it back down, he did that not by running sprints up a hill or anything, but by just simply sitting there and having the conscious ability to control that aspect of his physiology.
So when he did things like take his resting heart rate from 70 beats per minute to reportedly 300 beats per minute, and he held that for several seconds and then brought it back down, he did that not by running sprints up a hill or anything, but by just simply sitting there and having the conscious ability to control that aspect of his physiology.
Another really impressive thing Swami was able to do was actually shock the scientific team. They thought he was in cardiac arrest. because his ECG stopped working. And what happened was he was able to bring his heart rate below 20 beats per minute at the same time, give himself what's called AFib. And so the machine itself thought his heart had been stopped for like 20 seconds.
Another really impressive thing Swami was able to do was actually shock the scientific team. They thought he was in cardiac arrest. because his ECG stopped working. And what happened was he was able to bring his heart rate below 20 beats per minute at the same time, give himself what's called AFib. And so the machine itself thought his heart had been stopped for like 20 seconds.
I guess he signaled that, you know, I'm fine, I'm okay here. And then eventually brought it back up. Arguably more impressive was some of the stuff he was able to do with his physical temperature. So they had him on the same hand change the temperature by I think like six degrees Celsius in his same hand, again, only inches away.
I guess he signaled that, you know, I'm fine, I'm okay here. And then eventually brought it back up. Arguably more impressive was some of the stuff he was able to do with his physical temperature. So they had him on the same hand change the temperature by I think like six degrees Celsius in his same hand, again, only inches away.
And so clearly demonstrating some, not only control of his whole body temperature, but extreme precision of where that temperature was going and where it was not. But nonetheless, that was documented and published. And again, to this day is probably one of the more famous cases of such incredible control of one's what's supposed to be autonomic physiology.
And so clearly demonstrating some, not only control of his whole body temperature, but extreme precision of where that temperature was going and where it was not. But nonetheless, that was documented and published. And again, to this day is probably one of the more famous cases of such incredible control of one's what's supposed to be autonomic physiology.
A decade later, and I'm gonna highlight this one as well, I think it was 1982 actually, a similar thing was done in a more extensive group. And so what actually happened here was a paper was published in Nature. Now, that's one of the most blue-ribbon, highest-esteem journals in all of science and physiology.
A decade later, and I'm gonna highlight this one as well, I think it was 1982 actually, a similar thing was done in a more extensive group. And so what actually happened here was a paper was published in Nature. Now, that's one of the most blue-ribbon, highest-esteem journals in all of science and physiology.
And so, preeminent journal, it was published, and they looked at a bunch of Tibetan monks that lived in the Himalayas, studying and utilizing a practice that's called TUMMO, T-U-M-M-O. And they were able to do a bunch of similar things that Rami was able to do. I won't draw them out, but temperature controls, raising their body temperatures by like eight degrees consciously without moving.
And so, preeminent journal, it was published, and they looked at a bunch of Tibetan monks that lived in the Himalayas, studying and utilizing a practice that's called TUMMO, T-U-M-M-O. And they were able to do a bunch of similar things that Rami was able to do. I won't draw them out, but temperature controls, raising their body temperatures by like eight degrees consciously without moving.
In fact, one of the things that they did was they put wet sheets on top of them and put them in very cold, if not sub-zero conditions. And these individuals were able to not only stay neutral with temperature, stay neutral with their heart rate, but they were also able to physically dry the sheets within like 30 to 60 minutes. And so you can go on and on.
In fact, one of the things that they did was they put wet sheets on top of them and put them in very cold, if not sub-zero conditions. And these individuals were able to not only stay neutral with temperature, stay neutral with their heart rate, but they were also able to physically dry the sheets within like 30 to 60 minutes. And so you can go on and on.
You could probably find many other case studies like this. And again, thousands of anecdotes and other stories throughout history. But I think one thing that I'm trying to highlight here that is inarguable There is clearly the ability to run control over your physiology if you really take the time and attention. Is it tummo? Is it visualization?
You could probably find many other case studies like this. And again, thousands of anecdotes and other stories throughout history. But I think one thing that I'm trying to highlight here that is inarguable There is clearly the ability to run control over your physiology if you really take the time and attention. Is it tummo? Is it visualization?
Well, probably, realistically, we've got tons of different options. And so what I'd like to do today is talk about just a few of them. What do we know? What does it mean to control your nervous system? What can we do? What can't we do? And then what are a bunch of tactics and strategies so that you can have a more resilient nervous system?
Well, probably, realistically, we've got tons of different options. And so what I'd like to do today is talk about just a few of them. What do we know? What does it mean to control your nervous system? What can we do? What can't we do? And then what are a bunch of tactics and strategies so that you can have a more resilient nervous system?
To start us off, I wanna make sure we're all on the same page when I say nervous system. The easiest way to conceptualize it is think about it in two large branches. The first is what's called the central nervous system. This is your brain and brain stem and spinal cord. And the second is what's called your peripheral nervous system.
To start us off, I wanna make sure we're all on the same page when I say nervous system. The easiest way to conceptualize it is think about it in two large branches. The first is what's called the central nervous system. This is your brain and brain stem and spinal cord. And the second is what's called your peripheral nervous system.
So this is everything else that goes out and comes back to the central nervous system. Now, focusing on the peripheral nervous system, that's where most of the action happens. In this case, the peripheral nervous system is broken up into a couple of other categories, one being what's called the somatic system. This is what you can actively control. We're not going to talk about that much today.
So this is everything else that goes out and comes back to the central nervous system. Now, focusing on the peripheral nervous system, that's where most of the action happens. In this case, the peripheral nervous system is broken up into a couple of other categories, one being what's called the somatic system. This is what you can actively control. We're not going to talk about that much today.
It's stuff you already know you have control over. What I want to focus more on is the other branch, and that's what's called the autonomic nervous system, the ANS. And so within the autonomic nervous system, we're talking about things like the parasympathetic system. You may have heard of that as rest and digest.
It's stuff you already know you have control over. What I want to focus more on is the other branch, and that's what's called the autonomic nervous system, the ANS. And so within the autonomic nervous system, we're talking about things like the parasympathetic system. You may have heard of that as rest and digest.
There are probably better ways we can describe it and more interesting applications of it. But nonetheless, we'll just keep it simple right now and say that the parasympathetic is rest and digest. You also have the sympathetic. That is your fight and flight. And so most of us stop right there and we think, okay, parasympathetic, I'm relaxed, I'm lethargic, I'm down, I'm chill, I'm zen.
There are probably better ways we can describe it and more interesting applications of it. But nonetheless, we'll just keep it simple right now and say that the parasympathetic is rest and digest. You also have the sympathetic. That is your fight and flight. And so most of us stop right there and we think, okay, parasympathetic, I'm relaxed, I'm lethargic, I'm down, I'm chill, I'm zen.
Sympathetic, I'm fight, I'm flight, I'm up, I'm focused, I'm aroused, and so on and so forth. Reality of it is there's probably more things like the freeze mechanism. There's also the enteric system that happens here. This is kind of like most specifically referring to your gut.
Sympathetic, I'm fight, I'm flight, I'm up, I'm focused, I'm aroused, and so on and so forth. Reality of it is there's probably more things like the freeze mechanism. There's also the enteric system that happens here. This is kind of like most specifically referring to your gut.
But for the most part, again, for the sake of time, we're going to focus on the interplay between the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system because that provides us the ability to have a lot of control over what our nervous system is doing. And as I'll show here very soon, that has a significant impact on how you're looking, feeling, and performing in the short term. and long term.
But for the most part, again, for the sake of time, we're going to focus on the interplay between the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system because that provides us the ability to have a lot of control over what our nervous system is doing. And as I'll show here very soon, that has a significant impact on how you're looking, feeling, and performing in the short term. and long term.
And I'm highlighting that because again, people don't necessarily realize how much control they actually have over those systems. They are autonomic, but you have the ability to move them up and down, you can recalibrate them, and you can consciously, critically control them, as I've given many examples of already.
And I'm highlighting that because again, people don't necessarily realize how much control they actually have over those systems. They are autonomic, but you have the ability to move them up and down, you can recalibrate them, and you can consciously, critically control them, as I've given many examples of already.
If we were to zoom all the way out, focusing on that autonomic nervous system, the ultimate goal is to not have too much time and attention spent on this thing. If it is firing and functioning appropriately, it's running in the background. It is the software that's running your computer. You don't need to be worrying about it.
If we were to zoom all the way out, focusing on that autonomic nervous system, the ultimate goal is to not have too much time and attention spent on this thing. If it is firing and functioning appropriately, it's running in the background. It is the software that's running your computer. You don't need to be worrying about it.
It's making your life easier and better, but you shouldn't spend a lot of conscious control over it. That said, sometimes it gets a little bit out of whack and you want to have the ability to toggle it and recalibrate it so that you can bring it up or back down based on a particular thing you're trying to do.
It's making your life easier and better, but you shouldn't spend a lot of conscious control over it. That said, sometimes it gets a little bit out of whack and you want to have the ability to toggle it and recalibrate it so that you can bring it up or back down based on a particular thing you're trying to do.
And so all we're talking about really in today's episode is what happens when it gets again out of whack or is not as finely tuned to a particular thing that you'd like, and what can you do about it? That is ultimately today's version of controlling your nervous system. Now to be really clear, because we could go in a lot of different areas here, I'm also gonna qualify this talk even further.
And so all we're talking about really in today's episode is what happens when it gets again out of whack or is not as finely tuned to a particular thing that you'd like, and what can you do about it? That is ultimately today's version of controlling your nervous system. Now to be really clear, because we could go in a lot of different areas here, I'm also gonna qualify this talk even further.
We're not gonna be talking about stress management. emotions, or even really mental health. In fact, I would encourage you to go listen to a recent episode of the Huberman Lab podcast, one of the ones that's in the essentials catalog, where they break down a bunch of different tools and tactics on overall stress management and neurological control. I'm not going to cover any of those things today.
We're not gonna be talking about stress management. emotions, or even really mental health. In fact, I would encourage you to go listen to a recent episode of the Huberman Lab podcast, one of the ones that's in the essentials catalog, where they break down a bunch of different tools and tactics on overall stress management and neurological control. I'm not going to cover any of those things today.
We're going an entirely separate route. I'm also not only talking about downregulation. I know personally for many years,
We're going an entirely separate route. I'm also not only talking about downregulation. I know personally for many years,
i had this connotation whenever i thought about parasympathetic or recovery or relaxing i just always or breath work for that matter i just always thought it's all about down down down down down and it's not in fact i'm not only going to focus exclusively on breath work today either we're going to go well past those things what i really want to get at is again fine-tune control the ability to go down but also go back up
i had this connotation whenever i thought about parasympathetic or recovery or relaxing i just always or breath work for that matter i just always thought it's all about down down down down down and it's not in fact i'm not only going to focus exclusively on breath work today either we're going to go well past those things what i really want to get at is again fine-tune control the ability to go down but also go back up
and making sure that system is functioning how you'd like it to function. So what we will talk about are of course the three I's. If you're new to the show, what that means is how to investigate it, how to measure your nervous system, what that even means, what you should look for. The second I is interpret.
and making sure that system is functioning how you'd like it to function. So what we will talk about are of course the three I's. If you're new to the show, what that means is how to investigate it, how to measure your nervous system, what that even means, what you should look for. The second I is interpret.
So how do you make sense of, how do you judge or evaluate that information that you got from that previous test? And then the third one, which is intervene. What do you do about it? What are protocols? What are tools and technologies? What are things you can do at home? What are things that can be done at a higher level? that will make those positive impacts no matter which direction you're going.
So how do you make sense of, how do you judge or evaluate that information that you got from that previous test? And then the third one, which is intervene. What do you do about it? What are protocols? What are tools and technologies? What are things you can do at home? What are things that can be done at a higher level? that will make those positive impacts no matter which direction you're going.
So that overall is our game plan today. Talk about how we can control our nervous system in all those forms and fashion. Today's episode is sponsored by AG1. AG1 is a vitamin mineral drink with probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens.
So that overall is our game plan today. Talk about how we can control our nervous system in all those forms and fashion. Today's episode is sponsored by AG1. AG1 is a vitamin mineral drink with probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens.
Initially, I was extremely skeptical of AG1, as I am with all supplement companies, but after months of discussions with their lead nutrition scientist and the general team at AG1, I've been impressed by AG1's commitment to sourcing the highest quality ingredients and constantly updating their formulas to have the right ingredients in the optimal amounts.
Initially, I was extremely skeptical of AG1, as I am with all supplement companies, but after months of discussions with their lead nutrition scientist and the general team at AG1, I've been impressed by AG1's commitment to sourcing the highest quality ingredients and constantly updating their formulas to have the right ingredients in the optimal amounts.
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It's for these reasons and many others that I personally take AG1 almost every day. Now, it's of course not a replacement for eating whole healthy foods, but it is a great way to make sure that you're plugging in any gaps in your nutrition to improve your energy, bolster your immune system, and just generally help promote a healthy gut microbiome and more.
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If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com slash perform to receive five free travel packs plus a year supply of vitamin D3 plus K2. Again, that's drinkag1.com slash perform to receive five free travel packs plus a year supply of vitamin D3 plus K2. Today's episode is also sponsored by David. David makes protein bars unlike any I have ever encountered.
They have an amazing 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from that protein. This is 50% higher than the next closest protein bar. Honestly, it's the best tasting protein bar I've had by a mile.
They have an amazing 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from that protein. This is 50% higher than the next closest protein bar. Honestly, it's the best tasting protein bar I've had by a mile.
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Their bars taste incredible and are each packed with 28 grams of protein. I eat one almost every day and always have two or three in my backpack when I'm traveling, like literally always. It probably sounds funny, but I eat them as dessert all the time. When you try them, you'll know exactly what I mean.
The macronutrients, one more time, are 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar. If you're interested in trying these bars for yourself, you can go to davidprotein.com slash perform. Again, that's davidprotein.com slash perform. So to start us off, let's remember the ultimate goal. We would like, number one, that system to be operating independent of us.
The macronutrients, one more time, are 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar. If you're interested in trying these bars for yourself, you can go to davidprotein.com slash perform. Again, that's davidprotein.com slash perform. So to start us off, let's remember the ultimate goal. We would like, number one, that system to be operating independent of us.
We want it to be that software that's running. And then two, we want to have some active control over it when we'd like, but we don't want to be spending our entire day mitigating and managing what's going on in our nervous system. So that goal is important because it lays the foundation of what we're trying to do. And so really you can bucket control of the system into two main areas.
We want it to be that software that's running. And then two, we want to have some active control over it when we'd like, but we don't want to be spending our entire day mitigating and managing what's going on in our nervous system. So that goal is important because it lays the foundation of what we're trying to do. And so really you can bucket control of the system into two main areas.
Number one is what we simply call READ. You need to be able to read your current state. You can use this with technology. So you can buy something or use something that tells you what's happening in your own internal physiology. Or you can learn what's called interoception or interoception, which means you can feel it yourself. Now, some people are really good at that.
Number one is what we simply call READ. You need to be able to read your current state. You can use this with technology. So you can buy something or use something that tells you what's happening in your own internal physiology. Or you can learn what's called interoception or interoception, which means you can feel it yourself. Now, some people are really good at that.
Some people are completely terrible at it. But either way, we've got to figure out where you currently are. The second then step is to regulate. So know where I'm at, number one. Number two, move it. And when I say regulate, I'm going to break today's discussion up into two parts, what I call acute, things that move it right now. So you're feeling flustered right now.
Some people are completely terrible at it. But either way, we've got to figure out where you currently are. The second then step is to regulate. So know where I'm at, number one. Number two, move it. And when I say regulate, I'm going to break today's discussion up into two parts, what I call acute, things that move it right now. So you're feeling flustered right now.
What can you do about it in this second? Are you feeling tired right now? You're losing focus right now. What are tips and tricks we can do that'll instantly change my state? And then the chronic ones are ones I refer to of what are going to move the baseline permanently.
What can you do about it in this second? Are you feeling tired right now? You're losing focus right now. What are tips and tricks we can do that'll instantly change my state? And then the chronic ones are ones I refer to of what are going to move the baseline permanently.
Where we get confusion or oftentimes people that have tried things like this, where they've maybe been disappointed in the past is they're using things that are an acute stimuli and hoping it makes a chronic or permanent change. I'm really hopeful by the end of today's talk that you'll understand the difference and you can use the ones in the right form and fashion appropriately.
Where we get confusion or oftentimes people that have tried things like this, where they've maybe been disappointed in the past is they're using things that are an acute stimuli and hoping it makes a chronic or permanent change. I'm really hopeful by the end of today's talk that you'll understand the difference and you can use the ones in the right form and fashion appropriately.
But that's what we're after. In either case, what we're really trying to do is make sure that we're widening the range of our sympathetic and parasympathetic experience rather than sensitizing it. What do I mean by that? It's not about just reducing stress. It's not about just down-regulating. It's the opposite. In fact, maybe not the opposite, but it is complementary.
But that's what we're after. In either case, what we're really trying to do is make sure that we're widening the range of our sympathetic and parasympathetic experience rather than sensitizing it. What do I mean by that? It's not about just reducing stress. It's not about just down-regulating. It's the opposite. In fact, maybe not the opposite, but it is complementary.
The analogy I like to give here is imagine driving down a road and you're going down a one-lane highway. It's very likely for you to hit the guardrails on one side of the road when another car comes by because there's just not a lot of room to work. But if you expanded that highway from a one-lane road to a seven-lane road, you're far less likely to hit the guardrails. That's what I mean.
The analogy I like to give here is imagine driving down a road and you're going down a one-lane highway. It's very likely for you to hit the guardrails on one side of the road when another car comes by because there's just not a lot of room to work. But if you expanded that highway from a one-lane road to a seven-lane road, you're far less likely to hit the guardrails. That's what I mean.
When we become overly sensitized to the down regulation or the up regulation, we're driving on a one-lane highway. We want to not only become better drivers, right? I want you to have more control so you're not weaving as much. That alone will help you reduce your likelihood of hitting the wall.
When we become overly sensitized to the down regulation or the up regulation, we're driving on a one-lane highway. We want to not only become better drivers, right? I want you to have more control so you're not weaving as much. That alone will help you reduce your likelihood of hitting the wall.
But mostly what we're after is widening out that lane, giving you seven lanes so that when you do lose a little bit of control, you can feel it, see it, but you're not smashing up against walls. When I teach this, I like to use that highway analogy. That said, if you were to look at the research or talk to clinicians that work in this space,
But mostly what we're after is widening out that lane, giving you seven lanes so that when you do lose a little bit of control, you can feel it, see it, but you're not smashing up against walls. When I teach this, I like to use that highway analogy. That said, if you were to look at the research or talk to clinicians that work in this space,
you're generally going to see it described more as resilience. And what that means is you have the ability to experience high and low levels of changes in your autonomic nervous system without it having a dramatic impact on your lived experience.
you're generally going to see it described more as resilience. And what that means is you have the ability to experience high and low levels of changes in your autonomic nervous system without it having a dramatic impact on your lived experience.
Whether this is your psychology, your happiness, your anxiety, your depression, your perceived stress load, or your actual physiology, your hormone health, your energy, your metabolism, your sleep, your recovery, your physical performance.
Whether this is your psychology, your happiness, your anxiety, your depression, your perceived stress load, or your actual physiology, your hormone health, your energy, your metabolism, your sleep, your recovery, your physical performance.
We want you to all to be able to live a life that is your best, meaning you can handle things that challenge and change your body from a psychological perspective or a physiological perspective. And those things don't have dramatic consequences for you in the short or long term.
We want you to all to be able to live a life that is your best, meaning you can handle things that challenge and change your body from a psychological perspective or a physiological perspective. And those things don't have dramatic consequences for you in the short or long term.
So I feel comfortable in saying that most of us are better off with a more resilient rather than sensitive nervous system. What does that technically and practically look like? I will give you some tangible examples a little bit later.
So I feel comfortable in saying that most of us are better off with a more resilient rather than sensitive nervous system. What does that technically and practically look like? I will give you some tangible examples a little bit later.
But one thing you want to think about here is if you are somebody who feels like you are on constant sympathetic drive, you work out really hard at high intensity, you have a high stress personal life, a high stress place that you live, personal experiences, jobs, so on and so forth, then you might need to just focus on downregulation. That's fine.
But one thing you want to think about here is if you are somebody who feels like you are on constant sympathetic drive, you work out really hard at high intensity, you have a high stress personal life, a high stress place that you live, personal experiences, jobs, so on and so forth, then you might need to just focus on downregulation. That's fine.
We have hundreds of randomized control trials on people only doing down regulation work and it creating tons of positive experiences in their life. We've done this a bunch in my coaching programs. I've done this with my clients and athletes. No question that works there.
We have hundreds of randomized control trials on people only doing down regulation work and it creating tons of positive experiences in their life. We've done this a bunch in my coaching programs. I've done this with my clients and athletes. No question that works there.
But that's a little bit different and not always the best scenario when somebody is having issues on both sides, upregulation and downregulation. Because what can happen is if you're only ever paying attention to that downregulation size, that highway starts to get smaller. All right.
But that's a little bit different and not always the best scenario when somebody is having issues on both sides, upregulation and downregulation. Because what can happen is if you're only ever paying attention to that downregulation size, that highway starts to get smaller. All right.
So what you probably want to do, and if you actually look at the research in this space more carefully, a lot of the interventions are strategically implement both up-regulation and down-regulation.
So what you probably want to do, and if you actually look at the research in this space more carefully, a lot of the interventions are strategically implement both up-regulation and down-regulation.
Even if somebody is highly stressed, has a lot of anxiety or has other markers of overall dysfunction or problems in the nervous system, you're gonna see careful integration of both up-regulation and down-regulation. And that's because it works like a hormetic stressor. I've talked about this for many, many, many years. It's one of my favorite things to talk about.
Even if somebody is highly stressed, has a lot of anxiety or has other markers of overall dysfunction or problems in the nervous system, you're gonna see careful integration of both up-regulation and down-regulation. And that's because it works like a hormetic stressor. I've talked about this for many, many, many years. It's one of my favorite things to talk about.
But effectively what you're doing is you want yourself to downregulate. Well, just telling yourself to calm down doesn't always work very well. Sometimes the easiest way to calm down is to actually give yourself a supercharge up so that your body naturally swings back down as an equal and opposite reaction and the other way. So that is the framework with what we're going to talk about.
But effectively what you're doing is you want yourself to downregulate. Well, just telling yourself to calm down doesn't always work very well. Sometimes the easiest way to calm down is to actually give yourself a supercharge up so that your body naturally swings back down as an equal and opposite reaction and the other way. So that is the framework with what we're going to talk about.
Let's get right into how we measure our nervous system. what tools we can use, and then we'll go into evaluation and interpretations from there. With that all in mind, let's dive into our first I, which is investigate. How do you measure this stuff? Well, there's no one answer here. I think it's easiest to describe this in three major categories. First one are what I call performance-based tests.
Let's get right into how we measure our nervous system. what tools we can use, and then we'll go into evaluation and interpretations from there. With that all in mind, let's dive into our first I, which is investigate. How do you measure this stuff? Well, there's no one answer here. I think it's easiest to describe this in three major categories. First one are what I call performance-based tests.
So in the sporting world, you'll see groups do this where they'll take a vertical jump test every day. So you'll come in and every single day, you'll do say three or four maximum effort vertical jumps. And they look at the change, the assumption there being if your vertical jump is much lower today than it normally is, then there's a strong likelihood your nervous system is a little bit fatigued.
So in the sporting world, you'll see groups do this where they'll take a vertical jump test every day. So you'll come in and every single day, you'll do say three or four maximum effort vertical jumps. And they look at the change, the assumption there being if your vertical jump is much lower today than it normally is, then there's a strong likelihood your nervous system is a little bit fatigued.
That is a very common and classic approach in the sport performance world. Others do it with things like grip strength. Again, simple test, easy to do. There are reaction time drills. There's a ton of different apps and low or fairly inexpensive technologies to look at firing rates, fingering tap tests, how quickly can you move your thumb, lots and lots of different technologies here.
That is a very common and classic approach in the sport performance world. Others do it with things like grip strength. Again, simple test, easy to do. There are reaction time drills. There's a ton of different apps and low or fairly inexpensive technologies to look at firing rates, fingering tap tests, how quickly can you move your thumb, lots and lots of different technologies here.
Others I've seen, and we've actually explored this a lot, have looked at things like range of motion and flexibility. And I've actually personally seen this one land pretty well. So a basic sit and reach test of your hamstrings and low back, a rotational test, a forearm or flexion extension test. I've seen all these in the field a ton, and I'll be totally honest with you, they're pretty good.
Others I've seen, and we've actually explored this a lot, have looked at things like range of motion and flexibility. And I've actually personally seen this one land pretty well. So a basic sit and reach test of your hamstrings and low back, a rotational test, a forearm or flexion extension test. I've seen all these in the field a ton, and I'll be totally honest with you, they're pretty good.
We spent many years, probably over four years, testing some of these things every single day. We stuck them directly up against other more scientifically validated measures, and they all came in pretty much the same. And so these are absolutely fine ways to measure it. It's obviously mostly used in, again, the sport performance world, and so they are hedging towards the performance aspect.
We spent many years, probably over four years, testing some of these things every single day. We stuck them directly up against other more scientifically validated measures, and they all came in pretty much the same. And so these are absolutely fine ways to measure it. It's obviously mostly used in, again, the sport performance world, and so they are hedging towards the performance aspect.
If you're not jumping as high or moving as well, that's what they're concerned about. A totally different approach to this is more of a psychological assessment. Again, you'll see research and I've seen now huge databases. You're talking about millions of data points stacked directly up against something like mood. How you feel today?
If you're not jumping as high or moving as well, that's what they're concerned about. A totally different approach to this is more of a psychological assessment. Again, you'll see research and I've seen now huge databases. You're talking about millions of data points stacked directly up against something like mood. How you feel today?
And you'll be stunned, stunned on aggregate in large populations. Mood is a very strong predictor of overall nervous system state. How tired are you? So fatigue is another question. One we see often is called RPE, so rate of perceived exertion. Just different ways to ask about how do you feel today? What's your effort feel like today? How interested in training are you today?
And you'll be stunned, stunned on aggregate in large populations. Mood is a very strong predictor of overall nervous system state. How tired are you? So fatigue is another question. One we see often is called RPE, so rate of perceived exertion. Just different ways to ask about how do you feel today? What's your effort feel like today? How interested in training are you today?
Tons of different questions there. That's hedged more towards your subjective experience where the previous ones are obviously looking at objective performance, but there is classic overlap between both of them.
Tons of different questions there. That's hedged more towards your subjective experience where the previous ones are obviously looking at objective performance, but there is classic overlap between both of them.
The third one though that is more objective and where the bulk of the published research is, which doesn't mean they're better by the way, it just means they're used more scientifically, are in what I call the physiological markers. Common ones here are blood tests. I've spoke in season one. We had an entire episode on overtraining and overreaching.
The third one though that is more objective and where the bulk of the published research is, which doesn't mean they're better by the way, it just means they're used more scientifically, are in what I call the physiological markers. Common ones here are blood tests. I've spoke in season one. We had an entire episode on overtraining and overreaching.
We also had one on how to interpret blood tests for high performance. In both of those, I talked about a number of different blood and salivary markers you can use to assess overall fatigue and readiness and performance. We'll have direct links to those episodes in the show notes. You can go check them out and see what I'm talking about.
We also had one on how to interpret blood tests for high performance. In both of those, I talked about a number of different blood and salivary markers you can use to assess overall fatigue and readiness and performance. We'll have direct links to those episodes in the show notes. You can go check them out and see what I'm talking about.
But we're not going to get into that stuff today because we've covered a lot of it already. What we will get into for the most part are what I call the respiratory physiology markers. This is everything from resting heart rate to something called your heart rate variability or HRV to respiratory rate and CO2 tolerance. HRV, heart rate variability, is the king here.
But we're not going to get into that stuff today because we've covered a lot of it already. What we will get into for the most part are what I call the respiratory physiology markers. This is everything from resting heart rate to something called your heart rate variability or HRV to respiratory rate and CO2 tolerance. HRV, heart rate variability, is the king here.
Not saying it's the best, but it has the overwhelming majority of the research is on HRV. You don't see a lot anymore on resting heart rate, and that's because it's not very sensitive. We used to look at it a little bit more and we kind of walked away from it.
Not saying it's the best, but it has the overwhelming majority of the research is on HRV. You don't see a lot anymore on resting heart rate, and that's because it's not very sensitive. We used to look at it a little bit more and we kind of walked away from it.
If you get really shot for a long time, you're over-trained or highly chronically stressed or have a chronic disease, you will start to see increases in resting heart rates that are not being explained by a lack of physical fitness or cardiovascular fitness.
If you get really shot for a long time, you're over-trained or highly chronically stressed or have a chronic disease, you will start to see increases in resting heart rates that are not being explained by a lack of physical fitness or cardiovascular fitness.
So you can see changes in heart rate as a result of this autonomic nervous system being pushed into a direction, in this case, more sympathetic than you'd like. but it takes a long time. You're not gonna see the resting heart rate move for several weeks before you would really notice. And then the amount of movement is small. So it's hard to understand kind of signal to noise ratio there.
So you can see changes in heart rate as a result of this autonomic nervous system being pushed into a direction, in this case, more sympathetic than you'd like. but it takes a long time. You're not gonna see the resting heart rate move for several weeks before you would really notice. And then the amount of movement is small. So it's hard to understand kind of signal to noise ratio there.
So honestly kind of cross off resting heart rate, not a great marker. I don't know too many people that use it by itself or certainly use it as their first line of measurement. Now, heart rate variability is much more documented. Respiratory rate is growing. That's something we're learning much more about.
So honestly kind of cross off resting heart rate, not a great marker. I don't know too many people that use it by itself or certainly use it as their first line of measurement. Now, heart rate variability is much more documented. Respiratory rate is growing. That's something we're learning much more about.
And CO2 tolerance is something that I have used a lot, but there's not a ton of research behind that either. I will share with you my personal experiences with all these things, but I want to spend most of our attention today on HRV because we have so much more information to go off of. So let's dive into HRV. What is it? Why do you care? And how do we manipulate it?
And CO2 tolerance is something that I have used a lot, but there's not a ton of research behind that either. I will share with you my personal experiences with all these things, but I want to spend most of our attention today on HRV because we have so much more information to go off of. So let's dive into HRV. What is it? Why do you care? And how do we manipulate it?
Heart rate variability is exactly what it sounds like. It is the variation in your heart rate. Let me use an example. Let's say your resting heart rate is 60 beats per minute. You would then assume that since there's 60 seconds in one minute, that your heart is then beating, in this example, every second on the second.
Heart rate variability is exactly what it sounds like. It is the variation in your heart rate. Let me use an example. Let's say your resting heart rate is 60 beats per minute. You would then assume that since there's 60 seconds in one minute, that your heart is then beating, in this example, every second on the second.
And then if you sped your heart rate up to 670 or 80 or 90 or 100 beats per minute, you would simply shorten the time between each heartbeat. But that the time between each heartbeat would be the same. It'd be one second or half a second or three quarters of a second or whatever the case is. Well, in that particular case, there's no variation in your heart rate. That's not actually what happens.
And then if you sped your heart rate up to 670 or 80 or 90 or 100 beats per minute, you would simply shorten the time between each heartbeat. But that the time between each heartbeat would be the same. It'd be one second or half a second or three quarters of a second or whatever the case is. Well, in that particular case, there's no variation in your heart rate. That's not actually what happens.
If your heart rate is 60 beats per minute, What's going to happen naturally is maybe it beats at 1.1 second, and the next beat comes at 1.2 seconds later, and the next beat after that comes 0.9 seconds later, and then it comes at 0.8, and then it goes to 1.3. And so there's variations. At the end of the 60 seconds, you'll still have done 60 beats, but it won't be a metronome.
If your heart rate is 60 beats per minute, What's going to happen naturally is maybe it beats at 1.1 second, and the next beat comes at 1.2 seconds later, and the next beat after that comes 0.9 seconds later, and then it comes at 0.8, and then it goes to 1.3. And so there's variations. At the end of the 60 seconds, you'll still have done 60 beats, but it won't be a metronome.
It doesn't happen every second on the second. How variable that is, is the marker we're talking about. It's a little bit counterintuitive, but the more variation, the more parasympathetic you are. So the more variation in your heart rate, the more down-regulated. If it becomes like a metronome, every second on the second, it's dialed in, that means you're in sympathetic drive.
It doesn't happen every second on the second. How variable that is, is the marker we're talking about. It's a little bit counterintuitive, but the more variation, the more parasympathetic you are. So the more variation in your heart rate, the more down-regulated. If it becomes like a metronome, every second on the second, it's dialed in, that means you're in sympathetic drive.
Now, as I said, parasympathetic and sympathetic aren't on-off switches. They toggle back and forth. So HRV is just telling us kind of where at on that entire spectrum we are. Generally, on average here, we want to spend more time in parasympathetic, meaning a higher HRV, and less time in sympathetic. Most people struggle with spending too much time in sympathetic and therefore have a low HRV.
Now, as I said, parasympathetic and sympathetic aren't on-off switches. They toggle back and forth. So HRV is just telling us kind of where at on that entire spectrum we are. Generally, on average here, we want to spend more time in parasympathetic, meaning a higher HRV, and less time in sympathetic. Most people struggle with spending too much time in sympathetic and therefore have a low HRV.
Now, you can have the opposite problem, and we have seen that. I've coached people through that, where their HRV is extraordinarily high and they're lethargic with no energy, no motivation, and so on and so forth. But that's way more rare. Generally, I would probably say 95 times out of 100, it's the opposite.
Now, you can have the opposite problem, and we have seen that. I've coached people through that, where their HRV is extraordinarily high and they're lethargic with no energy, no motivation, and so on and so forth. But that's way more rare. Generally, I would probably say 95 times out of 100, it's the opposite.
We're getting people out of so much time in sympathetic drive and more in parasympathetic. A million explanations for this, but just as a practical example, you can imagine going from a A high stress job, sitting in traffic, even if it's not a high stress job, but it's a job.
We're getting people out of so much time in sympathetic drive and more in parasympathetic. A million explanations for this, but just as a practical example, you can imagine going from a A high stress job, sitting in traffic, even if it's not a high stress job, but it's a job.
You're around people, you're performing, you're in traffic, you're listening to podcasts, you're coming home, you're watching TV, and it's just sensory input all the time that requires your attention and reaction. If you're managing children, if you're managing other stuff, and there's just not enough quiet time that used to be around us.
You're around people, you're performing, you're in traffic, you're listening to podcasts, you're coming home, you're watching TV, and it's just sensory input all the time that requires your attention and reaction. If you're managing children, if you're managing other stuff, and there's just not enough quiet time that used to be around us.
Plenty of other reasons to explain it, but that's a good way to kind of understand the idea here of why most people are probably in sympathetic drive. If you want to say that that means we're in a more stressed life than we used to be, I don't know. I'll leave that up to you.
Plenty of other reasons to explain it, but that's a good way to kind of understand the idea here of why most people are probably in sympathetic drive. If you want to say that that means we're in a more stressed life than we used to be, I don't know. I'll leave that up to you.
But just from a practical perspective, we have way more arousal coming in way more frequently than we probably had for most of our experience as a human species. That's what HRV is, it's that variation, and that's what it tells us. It is a snapshot into the autonomic nervous system, specifically parasympathetic and sympathetic drive. It is only one metric. It is not perfect.
But just from a practical perspective, we have way more arousal coming in way more frequently than we probably had for most of our experience as a human species. That's what HRV is, it's that variation, and that's what it tells us. It is a snapshot into the autonomic nervous system, specifically parasympathetic and sympathetic drive. It is only one metric. It is not perfect.
There's not a single metric I will show you today that is perfect, but it does have a lot of research behind it. So that's roughly what HRV is. It is, at our best guess, 50% genetic and 50% lifestyle. Admittedly, I am not thoroughly impressed with that research.
There's not a single metric I will show you today that is perfect, but it does have a lot of research behind it. So that's roughly what HRV is. It is, at our best guess, 50% genetic and 50% lifestyle. Admittedly, I am not thoroughly impressed with that research.
I think that number is going to change over time, but it is inarguable that some point of it is not within your control and some part of it is. Why that matters? When we get to the interpretation stuff later, it's not VO2 max. I can't just look at your HRV and tell you you're good or bad. You have to consider the fact that a large part of it is not within your control. Tough to interpret.
I think that number is going to change over time, but it is inarguable that some point of it is not within your control and some part of it is. Why that matters? When we get to the interpretation stuff later, it's not VO2 max. I can't just look at your HRV and tell you you're good or bad. You have to consider the fact that a large part of it is not within your control. Tough to interpret.
The numbers themselves aren't as specific as they are for other variables, again, like VO2 max. There's also a age-related decline that happens in your HRV. So it gets lower as you age. That said, a recent paper just came out, I think actually last year, And it argued pretty strongly that the age-related decline in HRV is not inevitable.
The numbers themselves aren't as specific as they are for other variables, again, like VO2 max. There's also a age-related decline that happens in your HRV. So it gets lower as you age. That said, a recent paper just came out, I think actually last year, And it argued pretty strongly that the age-related decline in HRV is not inevitable.
And if you maintain function and fitness through life, that HRV should not drop as much, if any, but certainly not as much as you think. And so those are things that we are learning more about, but that paper just came out, first time I've seen anybody even examine it. So we're going to have to see where those things end up shaking out to be.
And if you maintain function and fitness through life, that HRV should not drop as much, if any, but certainly not as much as you think. And so those are things that we are learning more about, but that paper just came out, first time I've seen anybody even examine it. So we're going to have to see where those things end up shaking out to be.
Now, HRV is generally associated with better health, and you can look at this in a variety of different ways, but from a physical, cardiovascular, cardiopulmonary fitness perspective, it's generally pretty tied. It's not perfect. Just because VO2 max goes up doesn't mean HRV will go up, and the opposite as well.
Now, HRV is generally associated with better health, and you can look at this in a variety of different ways, but from a physical, cardiovascular, cardiopulmonary fitness perspective, it's generally pretty tied. It's not perfect. Just because VO2 max goes up doesn't mean HRV will go up, and the opposite as well.
So they are related, but they're definitely not a one-to-one correlation, and it's, I'd say, a moderate correlation, so much so we basically factor them in independently. I've seen plenty of people with smashingly high and that will tell you almost nothing about their HRV and the opposite, okay?
So they are related, but they're definitely not a one-to-one correlation, and it's, I'd say, a moderate correlation, so much so we basically factor them in independently. I've seen plenty of people with smashingly high and that will tell you almost nothing about their HRV and the opposite, okay?
Now, the research will show, and I have seen this personally in my experience, we've coached a lot of men and a lot of women. Women just tend to be a little bit lower with their VO2 max. Doesn't mean it's worse, but it is just a little bit lower of a score, meaning more sympathetic drive, right? Not worse. Now, that may actually not mean that, but that's a conversation for another day.
Now, the research will show, and I have seen this personally in my experience, we've coached a lot of men and a lot of women. Women just tend to be a little bit lower with their VO2 max. Doesn't mean it's worse, but it is just a little bit lower of a score, meaning more sympathetic drive, right? Not worse. Now, that may actually not mean that, but that's a conversation for another day.
But nonetheless, Little bit of calibration on what this thing actually is. We now know HRV influences, and I won't say directly and only causes, something like attention and focus has dozens, if not hundreds of things that regulate it. So we need to make sure that we're hearing this correctly, right? It is just associated with, and it does influence, but it's not the only influence of HRV.
But nonetheless, Little bit of calibration on what this thing actually is. We now know HRV influences, and I won't say directly and only causes, something like attention and focus has dozens, if not hundreds of things that regulate it. So we need to make sure that we're hearing this correctly, right? It is just associated with, and it does influence, but it's not the only influence of HRV.
Everything from attention to decision making, emotional control, and then other things like what are called mental endurance. Now this particularly matters because mental endurance under stress is resilience. This is why we're talking about it, right? I want you to be more resilient to stress. In this particular example, can you maintain decision-making? Can you maintain focus?
Everything from attention to decision making, emotional control, and then other things like what are called mental endurance. Now this particularly matters because mental endurance under stress is resilience. This is why we're talking about it, right? I want you to be more resilient to stress. In this particular example, can you maintain decision-making? Can you maintain focus?
Can you maintain attention and memory skills in the presence of stress? Not just when you're baseline, not when you're fresh and okay, but what about when you become fatigued? That's what a higher HRV allows you to do. And that's why we're going to press forward and give you tools to improve it, enhance it, or if it's already good, to maintain it.
Can you maintain attention and memory skills in the presence of stress? Not just when you're baseline, not when you're fresh and okay, but what about when you become fatigued? That's what a higher HRV allows you to do. And that's why we're going to press forward and give you tools to improve it, enhance it, or if it's already good, to maintain it.
You could drown yourself in data, whether you want to look at systematic reviews or meta-analyses, but you'll find them. Heart rate variability is associated with an enormous number of health implications. Everything from...
You could drown yourself in data, whether you want to look at systematic reviews or meta-analyses, but you'll find them. Heart rate variability is associated with an enormous number of health implications. Everything from...
I'm being a little aggressive here, but basically every psychological or mental health metric, anxiety, depression, PTSD, and so forth, to things like cardiovascular disease, all cause mortality, inflammation, hyperglycemia, hyperlipidemia, hypertension.
I'm being a little aggressive here, but basically every psychological or mental health metric, anxiety, depression, PTSD, and so forth, to things like cardiovascular disease, all cause mortality, inflammation, hyperglycemia, hyperlipidemia, hypertension.
I mean, pick your metric and you will find the meta-analysis or systematic review that shows, man, a bad HRV is going to be associated with bad health outcomes. One example I can give you here is things like that hyperglycemia. Now, that's high blood sugar, right? So think type 2 diabetes. Well, just think about it this way. If you were in a state of fight or flight,
I mean, pick your metric and you will find the meta-analysis or systematic review that shows, man, a bad HRV is going to be associated with bad health outcomes. One example I can give you here is things like that hyperglycemia. Now, that's high blood sugar, right? So think type 2 diabetes. Well, just think about it this way. If you were in a state of fight or flight,
you were fighting for your life, your adrenaline would be up. When your adrenaline goes up, your body releases a bunch of glucose into the bloodstream. And it does that because glucose will then go to your skeletal muscle. It gives them short-term energy and it can prepare for combat in this particular case. It doesn't actually matter if you're fighting.
you were fighting for your life, your adrenaline would be up. When your adrenaline goes up, your body releases a bunch of glucose into the bloodstream. And it does that because glucose will then go to your skeletal muscle. It gives them short-term energy and it can prepare for combat in this particular case. It doesn't actually matter if you're fighting.
General point is this, stress goes up, adrenaline goes up, blood glucose goes up. Well, if this is happening consistently throughout the day, you're effectively giving yourself stress-induced diabetes because you're constantly smashing your insulin system, smashing the pancreas because you're throwing blood glucose up and down and you didn't do anything with food.
General point is this, stress goes up, adrenaline goes up, blood glucose goes up. Well, if this is happening consistently throughout the day, you're effectively giving yourself stress-induced diabetes because you're constantly smashing your insulin system, smashing the pancreas because you're throwing blood glucose up and down and you didn't do anything with food.
This is why high stress and chronic stress management, one of the many reasons at least, why these things are associated with obesity. They are associated with inflammation. They are associated with high blood pressure and so forth. There's a direct physical reaction that happens from your psychology in this case, all the way down to your molecular biology. and it has consequences across systems.
This is why high stress and chronic stress management, one of the many reasons at least, why these things are associated with obesity. They are associated with inflammation. They are associated with high blood pressure and so forth. There's a direct physical reaction that happens from your psychology in this case, all the way down to your molecular biology. and it has consequences across systems.
I can keep giving you examples, but I think you get the point by now. In fact, many of you may have already realized or known that bad HRV is associated with lots of bad health implications, and that's no good. What is less discussed and less understood in my experience is how it directly relates to resilience.
I can keep giving you examples, but I think you get the point by now. In fact, many of you may have already realized or known that bad HRV is associated with lots of bad health implications, and that's no good. What is less discussed and less understood in my experience is how it directly relates to resilience.
And there's a couple of interesting papers that highlight this point, and so I want to dive into them in just a little bit more detail now. But if you remember, Your heart rate variability is driven by your autonomic nervous system. And one of the main things within that is called your vagus nerve. Now, when we hear vagus, we often think it's downregulation. But it's not just that.
And there's a couple of interesting papers that highlight this point, and so I want to dive into them in just a little bit more detail now. But if you remember, Your heart rate variability is driven by your autonomic nervous system. And one of the main things within that is called your vagus nerve. Now, when we hear vagus, we often think it's downregulation. But it's not just that.
If you were to stimulate the vagus nerve, you could get arousal as well, upregulation, excitement, so on and so forth. It is this toggle, right? It's this ability to go back and forth between them. Well, we have evidence now, molecularly, of how the vagus nerve can directly activate and change the immune system. No surprise here. What happens when you are really cooked?
If you were to stimulate the vagus nerve, you could get arousal as well, upregulation, excitement, so on and so forth. It is this toggle, right? It's this ability to go back and forth between them. Well, we have evidence now, molecularly, of how the vagus nerve can directly activate and change the immune system. No surprise here. What happens when you are really cooked?
You're shot, overworked, overstressed. Your immune system gets compromised, right? Why? Well, in part because of this. Now I'm not saying HRV caused that, but HRV would provide you that signal and says, hey, this is why you're not as resilient right now as you used to be.
You're shot, overworked, overstressed. Your immune system gets compromised, right? Why? Well, in part because of this. Now I'm not saying HRV caused that, but HRV would provide you that signal and says, hey, this is why you're not as resilient right now as you used to be.
Vagus nerve, overused, altered immune system function, and now you got sick or got more sick than you should have got because of that overall stress response you were less resilient to. Now, another example of that is a really complicated study, but it was so beautiful. I wanted to point it out. What they looked at here was this resilience or what's called reactivity marker.
Vagus nerve, overused, altered immune system function, and now you got sick or got more sick than you should have got because of that overall stress response you were less resilient to. Now, another example of that is a really complicated study, but it was so beautiful. I wanted to point it out. What they looked at here was this resilience or what's called reactivity marker.
And so what they found is kind of getting to the end of the paper here was when you were in the state of low HRV, sympathetic drive, That gave you higher sleep reactivity to stress. Meaning when we expose you to the same stressor, you had a exaggerated sleep response. In this case, a bad sleep response. That's exactly what we're talking about.
And so what they found is kind of getting to the end of the paper here was when you were in the state of low HRV, sympathetic drive, That gave you higher sleep reactivity to stress. Meaning when we expose you to the same stressor, you had a exaggerated sleep response. In this case, a bad sleep response. That's exactly what we're talking about.
So the same thing happened to you when you had a higher HRV, didn't affect your sleep. Now, when we give that thing to you and you have a low HRV, it affects your sleep a lot. That's higher reactivity. That is being less resilient to the same stressor. So same stress, big response. This is in circular, right? Because we also know at the same point, less sleep or worse sleep,
So the same thing happened to you when you had a higher HRV, didn't affect your sleep. Now, when we give that thing to you and you have a low HRV, it affects your sleep a lot. That's higher reactivity. That is being less resilient to the same stressor. So same stress, big response. This is in circular, right? Because we also know at the same point, less sleep or worse sleep,
increases your risk of all kinds of problems. And in this specific paper, the problem that they're looking at was depression symptoms. So the lower amount of sleep increased the risk of experiencing higher depressive symptoms. Many actual examples of this, but that really does, again, encapsulates what I'm trying to talk about here. It's not just up or down.
increases your risk of all kinds of problems. And in this specific paper, the problem that they're looking at was depression symptoms. So the lower amount of sleep increased the risk of experiencing higher depressive symptoms. Many actual examples of this, but that really does, again, encapsulates what I'm trying to talk about here. It's not just up or down.
It is being more resilient to everything that happens in your life. And our autonomic nervous system is a great tool to measure and pay attention to for that. So if that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will, but I'm assuming at this point you're all on board. So how do you actually measure it? Let's talk about different ways where you can actually investigate your HRV level.
It is being more resilient to everything that happens in your life. And our autonomic nervous system is a great tool to measure and pay attention to for that. So if that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will, but I'm assuming at this point you're all on board. So how do you actually measure it? Let's talk about different ways where you can actually investigate your HRV level.
Today's episode is sponsored by Element. Element is an electrolyte drink mix that has an ideal electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, but no sugar. Hydration is critical to performance, both physical and mental performance. Countless studies have shown that even a slight degree of dehydration, even as small as 1%, can lead to decreases in physical output and mental performance.
Today's episode is sponsored by Element. Element is an electrolyte drink mix that has an ideal electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, but no sugar. Hydration is critical to performance, both physical and mental performance. Countless studies have shown that even a slight degree of dehydration, even as small as 1%, can lead to decreases in physical output and mental performance.
We also know that electrolytes are critical to proper hydration, which I've been harping on for years. But you can't do that, proper hydration, by only drinking water. You need to get the right amount of electrolytes in the right ratios, and that's why I'm a huge fan of Element.
We also know that electrolytes are critical to proper hydration, which I've been harping on for years. But you can't do that, proper hydration, by only drinking water. You need to get the right amount of electrolytes in the right ratios, and that's why I'm a huge fan of Element.
In fact, many of you will probably remember that I featured Element in my YouTube series on optimizing hydration nearly five years ago. I featured Element in these videos because their blend of 1,000 milligrams of sodium 200 milligrams potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium really is unique and different than any other electrolyte on the market, and it has great scientific support.
In fact, many of you will probably remember that I featured Element in my YouTube series on optimizing hydration nearly five years ago. I featured Element in these videos because their blend of 1,000 milligrams of sodium 200 milligrams potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium really is unique and different than any other electrolyte on the market, and it has great scientific support.
I use Element constantly, particularly when I'm sweating a lot, and I routinely make it a part of my clients' optimization programs. If you'd like to try Element, You can go to drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free element sample pack with the purchase of any element drink mix. Again, that's drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free sample pack.
I use Element constantly, particularly when I'm sweating a lot, and I routinely make it a part of my clients' optimization programs. If you'd like to try Element, You can go to drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free element sample pack with the purchase of any element drink mix. Again, that's drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free sample pack.
Today's episode is also sponsored by Momentus. Momentus makes the highest quality supplements on the market, period. Many of you know me and you know that I do not trust the vast majority of supplement companies. And for good reason.
Today's episode is also sponsored by Momentus. Momentus makes the highest quality supplements on the market, period. Many of you know me and you know that I do not trust the vast majority of supplement companies. And for good reason.
Many studies have shown that anywhere between 10 to up to 40% of supplements have accidental contaminants, intentional alterations, mislabeling, or other serious issues. But Momentus is different. I literally spent years vetting the company, their products, and leadership team before personally officially partnering with them in 2023.
Many studies have shown that anywhere between 10 to up to 40% of supplements have accidental contaminants, intentional alterations, mislabeling, or other serious issues. But Momentus is different. I literally spent years vetting the company, their products, and leadership team before personally officially partnering with them in 2023.
Every single one of Momentus' products is third-party tested to ensure quality, and many are even NSF certified for sport. Now, while I love all of their products, the ones I use the most, both personally and with my clients, are what I call the big three. And these are the omega-3 fish oil, creatine, and newly improved whey protein formula.
Every single one of Momentus' products is third-party tested to ensure quality, and many are even NSF certified for sport. Now, while I love all of their products, the ones I use the most, both personally and with my clients, are what I call the big three. And these are the omega-3 fish oil, creatine, and newly improved whey protein formula.
These three supplements have fantastic data supporting their benefits. Whey protein for lean muscle mass, omega-3s for brain health, and creatine for both muscle and brain support. And they have been shown to be very safe across basically all populations of people, young, old, men, women, et cetera. Now, nobody has to use supplements, and I hope you never feel pressured to do so.
These three supplements have fantastic data supporting their benefits. Whey protein for lean muscle mass, omega-3s for brain health, and creatine for both muscle and brain support. And they have been shown to be very safe across basically all populations of people, young, old, men, women, et cetera. Now, nobody has to use supplements, and I hope you never feel pressured to do so.
But if you're interested in supplements, it's important that you get them from the highest quality providers. You don't want mercury in your fish oil or lead in your whey protein or anything like that. So that's why I stick exclusively to Momentus. If you'd like to give Momentus a try, go to livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off your order.
But if you're interested in supplements, it's important that you get them from the highest quality providers. You don't want mercury in your fish oil or lead in your whey protein or anything like that. So that's why I stick exclusively to Momentus. If you'd like to give Momentus a try, go to livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off your order.
Again, that's livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off. Because HRV is so ubiquitous and you can get it all from just your heart, There's a ton of different cheap tools to measure. I have used historically something called Morpheus, and it is amazing for looking at changes in HRV over time, especially at a baseline.
Again, that's livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off. Because HRV is so ubiquitous and you can get it all from just your heart, There's a ton of different cheap tools to measure. I have used historically something called Morpheus, and it is amazing for looking at changes in HRV over time, especially at a baseline.
It's fantastic for improving your conditioning and knowing what exercise to do for the day. But the other ones I want to get into today function a little bit differently. And that is kind of more understanding and acute sense. What am I at right now? And if I go do something, can I see that change instantly? So for that, actually, I like a device that's a combination of a couple of things.
It's fantastic for improving your conditioning and knowing what exercise to do for the day. But the other ones I want to get into today function a little bit differently. And that is kind of more understanding and acute sense. What am I at right now? And if I go do something, can I see that change instantly? So for that, actually, I like a device that's a combination of a couple of things.
Number one, I use a chest strap, Polar H10. I have no affiliation to Polar. I buy it. It's about $100 or so. This is the gold standard. And I like this the most because it is actually directly measuring EKG or ECG in the heart. Others, the ones that are worn like on your arm or on your wrist, are not directly measuring the heart.
Number one, I use a chest strap, Polar H10. I have no affiliation to Polar. I buy it. It's about $100 or so. This is the gold standard. And I like this the most because it is actually directly measuring EKG or ECG in the heart. Others, the ones that are worn like on your arm or on your wrist, are not directly measuring the heart.
They're using a different technology or methodology, which doesn't matter. And they're okay in some spaces. Some of them are very good. But for me, if I'm going to make a change, if I'm going to pay attention, if I'm going to coach somebody on it, I'm not going to try to save $30 and buying something that's slightly cheaper. $100 is pretty reasonable for most people to get to.
They're using a different technology or methodology, which doesn't matter. And they're okay in some spaces. Some of them are very good. But for me, if I'm going to make a change, if I'm going to pay attention, if I'm going to coach somebody on it, I'm not going to try to save $30 and buying something that's slightly cheaper. $100 is pretty reasonable for most people to get to.
And so I want the highest standard there. So for me, I've just personally had the most success with the Polar H10 strap. On top of that, I have recently been shown by a colleague of mine, Dr. Jay Wiles, W-I-L-E-S. Jay is phenomenal in this area. He does a ton of research and clinical experience in this stuff. He recently showed me an app called Optimal HRV. Again, I have no association to them.
And so I want the highest standard there. So for me, I've just personally had the most success with the Polar H10 strap. On top of that, I have recently been shown by a colleague of mine, Dr. Jay Wiles, W-I-L-E-S. Jay is phenomenal in this area. He does a ton of research and clinical experience in this stuff. He recently showed me an app called Optimal HRV. Again, I have no association to them.
I pay normal full price for it. It's about five bucks a month. It's really, really cheap. It pairs perfectly with that Polar H10 strap. So you can put the strap on, you can pull up the app, and you can see your HIV in real time. So we can see it right now. We can go test something. We can go try something, and we can see the response. It's very intuitive.
I pay normal full price for it. It's about five bucks a month. It's really, really cheap. It pairs perfectly with that Polar H10 strap. So you can put the strap on, you can pull up the app, and you can see your HIV in real time. So we can see it right now. We can go test something. We can go try something, and we can see the response. It's very intuitive.
So you're talking $100, $115 or something like that. You could have yourself a nice HIV tool. One more time to be really clear. If we are concerned about HIV, we're going to go with one of those devices. We're going to measure it directly from the chest. We're not going to measure it from the finger or the wrist or anywhere else unless we absolutely have to.
So you're talking $100, $115 or something like that. You could have yourself a nice HIV tool. One more time to be really clear. If we are concerned about HIV, we're going to go with one of those devices. We're going to measure it directly from the chest. We're not going to measure it from the finger or the wrist or anywhere else unless we absolutely have to.
Now, it's been a long time since we talked about this, but earlier I brought up respiratory rate. And I'm going to come back to it now. There's not as much research here, but it is growing. And what's clear about respiratory rate is the information you get from it is different than what you get from heart rate variability. And so ideally, you're going to pay attention to both of these.
Now, it's been a long time since we talked about this, but earlier I brought up respiratory rate. And I'm going to come back to it now. There's not as much research here, but it is growing. And what's clear about respiratory rate is the information you get from it is different than what you get from heart rate variability. And so ideally, you're going to pay attention to both of these.
Respiratory rate, like HRV... It is a non-specific, but highly sensitive measure of your nervous system. In other words, if your HRV is up or down, or your respiratory rate is up or down, something's happening. It's very sensitive to changes. You will see changes within a day. As I just described, you can change these things within minutes or seconds.
Respiratory rate, like HRV... It is a non-specific, but highly sensitive measure of your nervous system. In other words, if your HRV is up or down, or your respiratory rate is up or down, something's happening. It's very sensitive to changes. You will see changes within a day. As I just described, you can change these things within minutes or seconds.
If you see changes over a couple of days, it means something, but they're non-specific. They're not telling you, oh, this was your nutrition, or, oh, this is your mental stress, or, oh, this is hydration or bad sleep. You don't know what's happening. It's simply telling you something about the overall allostatic load, the total stress of the environment.
If you see changes over a couple of days, it means something, but they're non-specific. They're not telling you, oh, this was your nutrition, or, oh, this is your mental stress, or, oh, this is hydration or bad sleep. You don't know what's happening. It's simply telling you something about the overall allostatic load, the total stress of the environment.
So then you gotta go work to figure out what's happening there, but they are both highly relevant. Why I like respiratory rate arguably the most here is because I have personally, and now I'm walking away from the research here, I can't show this scientifically yet, But I have found it personally to be more sensitive. It'll show up fast.
So then you gotta go work to figure out what's happening there, but they are both highly relevant. Why I like respiratory rate arguably the most here is because I have personally, and now I'm walking away from the research here, I can't show this scientifically yet, But I have found it personally to be more sensitive. It'll show up fast.
Oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes in my personal experience, you'll see changes in respiratory rate before you'll see them in HRV. You know, anything that matters, but not always. And so we really pay high attention to both.
Oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes in my personal experience, you'll see changes in respiratory rate before you'll see them in HRV. You know, anything that matters, but not always. And so we really pay high attention to both.
There's a really wonderful article in a technology journal actually called Sensors published a couple of years ago by a scientist that I just love in this field, Andre Nicolo, called The Importance of Respiratory Rate Monitoring from Healthcare to Sport and Exercise. And in that paper, they walk you through a ton of the research, what's going on here, the fact that it is a critical vital sign
There's a really wonderful article in a technology journal actually called Sensors published a couple of years ago by a scientist that I just love in this field, Andre Nicolo, called The Importance of Respiratory Rate Monitoring from Healthcare to Sport and Exercise. And in that paper, they walk you through a ton of the research, what's going on here, the fact that it is a critical vital sign
It has been associated with everything from cardiac events and pneumonia to heat exposure and cold and exercise, emotional stress, cognitive load, and so on and so forth. You can go read about more of the details of respiratory rate there. I've thrown this out a couple of times at the beginning, but I wanted to finally tie a bow on this as well. What does this have to do with CO2 tolerance?
It has been associated with everything from cardiac events and pneumonia to heat exposure and cold and exercise, emotional stress, cognitive load, and so on and so forth. You can go read about more of the details of respiratory rate there. I've thrown this out a couple of times at the beginning, but I wanted to finally tie a bow on this as well. What does this have to do with CO2 tolerance?
If you're not familiar with that, This is a similar metric. So when we're looking at respiratory rate and we're looking at resting heart rate and HRV, we also like to pay attention to CO2 tolerance. This is a different way of examining the state of your nervous system.
If you're not familiar with that, This is a similar metric. So when we're looking at respiratory rate and we're looking at resting heart rate and HRV, we also like to pay attention to CO2 tolerance. This is a different way of examining the state of your nervous system.
Specifically, the way that we have defined CO2 tolerance, this is developed, or rather was brought to me by a gentleman named Brian McKenzie. I don't know who created it initially, but Brian is the one who taught me about it.
Specifically, the way that we have defined CO2 tolerance, this is developed, or rather was brought to me by a gentleman named Brian McKenzie. I don't know who created it initially, but Brian is the one who taught me about it.
And the way that this works is it's effectively like a little bit of a breath hold test where you exhale continuously and you can see how long that you can continually exhale some small amount of air. It's a maximal effort test. In the show notes, we'll put a direct link to a video Brian has made that shows you how to go through the CO2 tolerance test. And I like it. We've used it a bunch.
And the way that this works is it's effectively like a little bit of a breath hold test where you exhale continuously and you can see how long that you can continually exhale some small amount of air. It's a maximal effort test. In the show notes, we'll put a direct link to a video Brian has made that shows you how to go through the CO2 tolerance test. And I like it. We've used it a bunch.
I also feel like it tells us something similar, but slightly different than both HRV and respiratory rate. So while I told you earlier, we look at both of those, we also look at CO2 as much as we can. I can't get CO2 tolerance though from a simple test on a resting test. You actually have to actively do it. It only takes about a minute.
I also feel like it tells us something similar, but slightly different than both HRV and respiratory rate. So while I told you earlier, we look at both of those, we also look at CO2 as much as we can. I can't get CO2 tolerance though from a simple test on a resting test. You actually have to actively do it. It only takes about a minute.
But because of that, people won't necessarily do it every day where I can check their heart rate easily, whether they're doing something or not. So that's the only reason why we don't use it necessarily every day. But here's the connection. The way that your physiology works is you will bring in oxygen when you take a breath in.
But because of that, people won't necessarily do it every day where I can check their heart rate easily, whether they're doing something or not. So that's the only reason why we don't use it necessarily every day. But here's the connection. The way that your physiology works is you will bring in oxygen when you take a breath in.
And you're doing that because oxygen's primary job is to regulate metabolism. It's energy production, right? It's aerobic metabolism, which is what most of your body's doing most of the time. When you breathe out, you're breathing out CO2. The difference between oxygen and CO2 is that carbon molecule. That carbon is a byproduct of any metabolic process.
And you're doing that because oxygen's primary job is to regulate metabolism. It's energy production, right? It's aerobic metabolism, which is what most of your body's doing most of the time. When you breathe out, you're breathing out CO2. The difference between oxygen and CO2 is that carbon molecule. That carbon is a byproduct of any metabolic process.
So whether you're breaking down carbohydrates or fat, whether you're using that resulting energy for exercise or digestion or immune function or cognitive performance, it doesn't actually matter. It all is going to net result in you leaving a little bit of the water leftover, making some ATP, and having a bunch of free-floating carbon. That carbon in your system is highly problematic.
So whether you're breaking down carbohydrates or fat, whether you're using that resulting energy for exercise or digestion or immune function or cognitive performance, it doesn't actually matter. It all is going to net result in you leaving a little bit of the water leftover, making some ATP, and having a bunch of free-floating carbon. That carbon in your system is highly problematic.
And so your body will immediately attach it to an oxygen molecule forming CO2. And so the way we say this is the net end result of all metabolic processes are water, ATP, and CO2. Now, if you're in the case of, let's just say exercise, it doesn't matter, but let's just say we are doing that, the more metabolism you go through, the more CO2 is generated in your muscle.
And so your body will immediately attach it to an oxygen molecule forming CO2. And so the way we say this is the net end result of all metabolic processes are water, ATP, and CO2. Now, if you're in the case of, let's just say exercise, it doesn't matter, but let's just say we are doing that, the more metabolism you go through, the more CO2 is generated in your muscle.
Your muscle then puts it into your blood and then transmits through your blood, goes into your lungs, and then you exhale and get it out. That's the entire cycle of life. Plants do the opposite. They breathe in CO2, pull out the carbon, keep it, hold on it to themselves, and then get rid of the O2, right? That's the relationship living beings have with plants in terms of oxygen and CO2.
Your muscle then puts it into your blood and then transmits through your blood, goes into your lungs, and then you exhale and get it out. That's the entire cycle of life. Plants do the opposite. They breathe in CO2, pull out the carbon, keep it, hold on it to themselves, and then get rid of the O2, right? That's the relationship living beings have with plants in terms of oxygen and CO2.
Why this matters, again, you breathe in oxygen to regulate metabolism, but your CO2 levels are there to regulate your pH. It has nothing to do with your exercise performance. Your body will regulate blood pressure, it will regulate electrolytes, and it will regulate pH over almost anything. And one could argue it will regulate pH literally over anything else in the whole world.
Why this matters, again, you breathe in oxygen to regulate metabolism, but your CO2 levels are there to regulate your pH. It has nothing to do with your exercise performance. Your body will regulate blood pressure, it will regulate electrolytes, and it will regulate pH over almost anything. And one could argue it will regulate pH literally over anything else in the whole world.
That is because most of your body, the vast majority of all enzymes in the world, have to run at a very specific pH. Too acidic or too alkaline, they don't work. If they don't work and your heart can't pump and your brain can't operate, you die pretty quickly. So your physiological pH levels are maintained at an incredibly tight number. Your testosterone can easily triple in a few minutes.
That is because most of your body, the vast majority of all enzymes in the world, have to run at a very specific pH. Too acidic or too alkaline, they don't work. If they don't work and your heart can't pump and your brain can't operate, you die pretty quickly. So your physiological pH levels are maintained at an incredibly tight number. Your testosterone can easily triple in a few minutes.
Your adrenaline can go up many multiples. Your pH stays within an extremely tight window. It will move everything else around it to keep your pH at the right level. The primary way your body regulates your pH is by changing the amount of CO2 that it lets be in your blood. If CO2 levels get too high in your blood, This will tell your autonomic nervous system to breathe more. You don't feel it.
Your adrenaline can go up many multiples. Your pH stays within an extremely tight window. It will move everything else around it to keep your pH at the right level. The primary way your body regulates your pH is by changing the amount of CO2 that it lets be in your blood. If CO2 levels get too high in your blood, This will tell your autonomic nervous system to breathe more. You don't feel it.
This is subconscious. You're just breathing more. You have no idea what's happening. Not an active process, autonomic nervous system. It does that, it gets rid of the CO2, it brings the acidic level down. If the acidic level is too low, meaning you're too alkaline, it will have you slow your respiration down. You'll hold your breath. Again, you won't even know this.
This is subconscious. You're just breathing more. You have no idea what's happening. Not an active process, autonomic nervous system. It does that, it gets rid of the CO2, it brings the acidic level down. If the acidic level is too low, meaning you're too alkaline, it will have you slow your respiration down. You'll hold your breath. Again, you won't even know this.
It'll let the CO2 levels increase more until it gets to the spot it wants, and then it'll bring your respiration back up. If you go start exercising, you start putting a bunch of CO2 in the blood, that's why your body makes you breathe more. Because it has to dump that CO2.
It'll let the CO2 levels increase more until it gets to the spot it wants, and then it'll bring your respiration back up. If you go start exercising, you start putting a bunch of CO2 in the blood, that's why your body makes you breathe more. Because it has to dump that CO2.
In normal circumstances, the primary reason you get air hunger or you feel like you have to breathe, if I were to make you hold your breath right now, it's not because you're running low on oxygen. It's because CO2 levels are rising. CO2 concentrations in your blood are the primary mechanism that drive you to feel like you need to ventilate.
In normal circumstances, the primary reason you get air hunger or you feel like you have to breathe, if I were to make you hold your breath right now, it's not because you're running low on oxygen. It's because CO2 levels are rising. CO2 concentrations in your blood are the primary mechanism that drive you to feel like you need to ventilate.
So it can be conscious, you can feel it, but most of the time this is happening without you having any awareness at all of what's going on. If you are chronically breathing heavily, Not enough. You are under breathing, which doesn't happen much. CO2 levels would be getting really high, you'd be acidic. What's more common is the opposite. And there are papers on this, right? That you can see it.
So it can be conscious, you can feel it, but most of the time this is happening without you having any awareness at all of what's going on. If you are chronically breathing heavily, Not enough. You are under breathing, which doesn't happen much. CO2 levels would be getting really high, you'd be acidic. What's more common is the opposite. And there are papers on this, right? That you can see it.
If you are breathing too much, whether you want to call this over breathing, like we tend to call it, Or if you are actually truly into what's called chronic hyperventilation, this is a medically diagnosable condition. Chronic hyperventilation is over breathing. What that really is, is you're putting too much CO2 out of your body into the atmosphere.
If you are breathing too much, whether you want to call this over breathing, like we tend to call it, Or if you are actually truly into what's called chronic hyperventilation, this is a medically diagnosable condition. Chronic hyperventilation is over breathing. What that really is, is you're putting too much CO2 out of your body into the atmosphere.
So because of that, your CO2 levels in your body get too low. This is called hypocapnia, too low of CO2. This is incredibly problematic because again, one, we are out of pH range now. We're not acidic, we're alkaline, we're the opposite. So because of that, your kidneys, somewhere within a couple of days or a couple of hours to a couple of days, maybe even a few weeks, can respond to that.
So because of that, your CO2 levels in your body get too low. This is called hypocapnia, too low of CO2. This is incredibly problematic because again, one, we are out of pH range now. We're not acidic, we're alkaline, we're the opposite. So because of that, your kidneys, somewhere within a couple of days or a couple of hours to a couple of days, maybe even a few weeks, can respond to that.
They don't always, but they can respond to that by putting you into what's called metabolic acidosis. And it's doing that because it's, again, trying to reestablish some acidity in the system to make everything happy. This then has a whole host of renal and kidney issues, hydration issues, and sodium, potassium, and electrolyte issues, and a bunch of other stuff that is just overall problematic.
They don't always, but they can respond to that by putting you into what's called metabolic acidosis. And it's doing that because it's, again, trying to reestablish some acidity in the system to make everything happy. This then has a whole host of renal and kidney issues, hydration issues, and sodium, potassium, and electrolyte issues, and a bunch of other stuff that is just overall problematic.
The other major problem with this over-breathing strategy is CO2 is a vasodilator. And so if you are exhaling too much of it and CO2 concentrations get too low, you get vasoconstriction. This means decreased cerebral blood flow. This means decreased blood flow everywhere else, it also alters what's called Bohr's effect. In general, what all this is meaning, you don't have as much oxygenation.
The other major problem with this over-breathing strategy is CO2 is a vasodilator. And so if you are exhaling too much of it and CO2 concentrations get too low, you get vasoconstriction. This means decreased cerebral blood flow. This means decreased blood flow everywhere else, it also alters what's called Bohr's effect. In general, what all this is meaning, you don't have as much oxygenation.
Not exactly what it is, but if that helps you conceptualize what's going on here, then that's fine. And so we're seeing problems in health, cognitive performance, physical exercise performance, all of this stuff can be a response to chronic hyperventilation or over-breathing, however you would define those things. That said then, if I'm seeing HRV is fine, resting heart rate's fine,
Not exactly what it is, but if that helps you conceptualize what's going on here, then that's fine. And so we're seeing problems in health, cognitive performance, physical exercise performance, all of this stuff can be a response to chronic hyperventilation or over-breathing, however you would define those things. That said then, if I'm seeing HRV is fine, resting heart rate's fine,
but I am chronically over breathing, I still have some work to do. And it is indicating something is happening potentially from a stress situation that's not going to be necessarily picked up by changes in sleep or changes in HRV or changes in overall resting heart rate. Why this becomes really problematic is they can then turn quickly into what are called sustaining factors.
but I am chronically over breathing, I still have some work to do. And it is indicating something is happening potentially from a stress situation that's not going to be necessarily picked up by changes in sleep or changes in HRV or changes in overall resting heart rate. Why this becomes really problematic is they can then turn quickly into what are called sustaining factors.
And so while something caused hyperventilation, which is a normal and healthy response, remember, I say I get scared right now. I want to go into sympathetic drive. I want adrenaline up. I want to start an anticipatory over-breathing strategy. I know CO2 is going to start increasing because I'm about to start doing something physically. So I'll start over-breathing. That's great.
And so while something caused hyperventilation, which is a normal and healthy response, remember, I say I get scared right now. I want to go into sympathetic drive. I want adrenaline up. I want to start an anticipatory over-breathing strategy. I know CO2 is going to start increasing because I'm about to start doing something physically. So I'll start over-breathing. That's great.
Normal reactive strategy there. Healthy one. That's what we want. But if we're chronically doing that, We're chronically over breathing because we're chronically in this sympathetic drive. We're chronically in this high stress environment. That can be sustained. It can turn into a habit. It can turn into misattribution. It can turn into lots of different things.
Normal reactive strategy there. Healthy one. That's what we want. But if we're chronically doing that, We're chronically over breathing because we're chronically in this sympathetic drive. We're chronically in this high stress environment. That can be sustained. It can turn into a habit. It can turn into misattribution. It can turn into lots of different things.
We have increased that sympathetic adrenergic tone. We are ready and dialed and primed for the same situation, the same smell, the same thing we hear, the same thing we see to drive us back into that hyperventilation strategy. We then can be causing the same problem and it can be cyclical, right? Because that hyperventilation itself can cause the same physiological problems.
We have increased that sympathetic adrenergic tone. We are ready and dialed and primed for the same situation, the same smell, the same thing we hear, the same thing we see to drive us back into that hyperventilation strategy. We then can be causing the same problem and it can be cyclical, right? Because that hyperventilation itself can cause the same physiological problems.
So it's hard strategy to break. So really important to pay attention to respiratory rate as well. I could go on, but again, for the sake of time, we'll stop right there. Important, highly correlated, highly overlapped with some of the other markers we've talked about, but it tells us unique information. Now, how do I measure this? Most of the wearables you have will measure respiratory rate.
So it's hard strategy to break. So really important to pay attention to respiratory rate as well. I could go on, but again, for the sake of time, we'll stop right there. Important, highly correlated, highly overlapped with some of the other markers we've talked about, but it tells us unique information. Now, how do I measure this? Most of the wearables you have will measure respiratory rate.
I will give you fair warning. There is no industry standard though on how that's calculated. So just like HRV, don't put a ton of stock in the absolute number. You want to pay most attention to trends and things like that, but at least be consistent with the device that you're using. Use whatever you like. It doesn't matter what you get, how you use it.
I will give you fair warning. There is no industry standard though on how that's calculated. So just like HRV, don't put a ton of stock in the absolute number. You want to pay most attention to trends and things like that, but at least be consistent with the device that you're using. Use whatever you like. It doesn't matter what you get, how you use it.
It's a very simple measure that basically every wearable either directly has or it can have. If they're not reporting it, they're measuring it. They're just using it to calculate other stuff. So that can be done in a bunch of different ways. Hopefully, that gave you some more information about how you can calculate HRV, how you can calculate respiratory rate.
It's a very simple measure that basically every wearable either directly has or it can have. If they're not reporting it, they're measuring it. They're just using it to calculate other stuff. So that can be done in a bunch of different ways. Hopefully, that gave you some more information about how you can calculate HRV, how you can calculate respiratory rate.
You probably can infer how to calculate resting heart rate. And I gave you some tools on how to calculate and measure CO2 tolerance as well. It's time for us to now move on to where we figure out how to make sense of all that information and determine how do we interpret it all. We're gonna start off by talking about HRV.
You probably can infer how to calculate resting heart rate. And I gave you some tools on how to calculate and measure CO2 tolerance as well. It's time for us to now move on to where we figure out how to make sense of all that information and determine how do we interpret it all. We're gonna start off by talking about HRV.
Anyone who works in this area will be squeamish when you ask them the question of what's a good one or a bad one. We all say the same thing, which actually to me is like a badge of honor that that person knows what they're talking about when I hear them say that. It's a hard thing to put a number on. I'll give you something though, to get started on most wearables.
Anyone who works in this area will be squeamish when you ask them the question of what's a good one or a bad one. We all say the same thing, which actually to me is like a badge of honor that that person knows what they're talking about when I hear them say that. It's a hard thing to put a number on. I'll give you something though, to get started on most wearables.
Most men are going to be something in the like forties to 60 range on their HRV score. Women are a little bit lower than that. If you are older than say 60 years old, then maybe tink that down a little bit. That all said, I wanted to start off with a number, but I don't know what that even means. And that's because every device actually has a different calculation they use to measure HRV.
Most men are going to be something in the like forties to 60 range on their HRV score. Women are a little bit lower than that. If you are older than say 60 years old, then maybe tink that down a little bit. That all said, I wanted to start off with a number, but I don't know what that even means. And that's because every device actually has a different calculation they use to measure HRV.
So we're not even necessarily always talking about the same thing. More importantly than that, though, there is a misuse of HRV in a bunch of different scenarios. And so you should pay attention to it. I made a long argument of why it's important, it's relevant. But I just started off by also saying the measurement itself is not the same between devices.
So we're not even necessarily always talking about the same thing. More importantly than that, though, there is a misuse of HRV in a bunch of different scenarios. And so you should pay attention to it. I made a long argument of why it's important, it's relevant. But I just started off by also saying the measurement itself is not the same between devices.
So we want to use this as a measure of progress or regression rather than just comparing score to score, especially if you're comparing your score to your friends and you're on a ring and they're on a watch or something like that. The number is actually the calculation. The equation itself can be completely different.
So we want to use this as a measure of progress or regression rather than just comparing score to score, especially if you're comparing your score to your friends and you're on a ring and they're on a watch or something like that. The number is actually the calculation. The equation itself can be completely different.
There's many, many ways to calculate HRV that are scientifically validated, and the numbers are digits different than the other ones. That's an important point to pay attention to. I've already also talked about the fact that it could be normal for you when you have an HRV score that is, let's just to put numbers on it, say 25. Well, that actually might be normal for you. I don't know.
There's many, many ways to calculate HRV that are scientifically validated, and the numbers are digits different than the other ones. That's an important point to pay attention to. I've already also talked about the fact that it could be normal for you when you have an HRV score that is, let's just to put numbers on it, say 25. Well, that actually might be normal for you. I don't know.
If we look at your respiratory rate and your resting heart rate and your CO2 tolerance and your subjective feeling and your recovery and your performance and your cognition, and they're all great, well, then I might not be super worried about just your HRV. So we're never going to take it of itself, by itself, and only itself, and over-interpret its meaning.
If we look at your respiratory rate and your resting heart rate and your CO2 tolerance and your subjective feeling and your recovery and your performance and your cognition, and they're all great, well, then I might not be super worried about just your HRV. So we're never going to take it of itself, by itself, and only itself, and over-interpret its meaning.
If you are going to calculate it, please collect good data. What do I mean by that? However you're testing it, be consistent. If you're wearing a ring, wear a ring. Use the same one. If you're testing it with a chest strap every morning, use it in the same position. Don't take it seated one day. Don't take it lying down the next day.
If you are going to calculate it, please collect good data. What do I mean by that? However you're testing it, be consistent. If you're wearing a ring, wear a ring. Use the same one. If you're testing it with a chest strap every morning, use it in the same position. Don't take it seated one day. Don't take it lying down the next day.
Don't wake up and go to the bathroom one day and then check it and the next day you did it before going to the bathroom. Or you did it before breakfast and then you had coffee the next time and you had a giant pancake breakfast. You get the point here. Test it under the same consistent terms always. We want to pay attention mostly to trends over time.
Don't wake up and go to the bathroom one day and then check it and the next day you did it before going to the bathroom. Or you did it before breakfast and then you had coffee the next time and you had a giant pancake breakfast. You get the point here. Test it under the same consistent terms always. We want to pay attention mostly to trends over time.
And the recommendation I'll give you here is to establish your own standard deviation. Here's what that means. Let's say you test your HRV for 30 days. And within those 30 days, don't do anything about it. Don't make any changes. on a piece of paper in an Excel file on your computer, just jot down the score on all 30 of those days. Then ask it to run a standard deviation calculation
And the recommendation I'll give you here is to establish your own standard deviation. Here's what that means. Let's say you test your HRV for 30 days. And within those 30 days, don't do anything about it. Don't make any changes. on a piece of paper in an Excel file on your computer, just jot down the score on all 30 of those days. Then ask it to run a standard deviation calculation
And this will basically tell you what your normal average number is and how far off, up or low, you tend to go within a 30-day window. This matters a ton because the amount of that deviation, number one, tells us something about your physiology that's maybe arguably more important than the actual number itself. Let me give you some mathematical examples. Let's say your HRV was 30 on your device.
And this will basically tell you what your normal average number is and how far off, up or low, you tend to go within a 30-day window. This matters a ton because the amount of that deviation, number one, tells us something about your physiology that's maybe arguably more important than the actual number itself. Let me give you some mathematical examples. Let's say your HRV was 30 on your device.
Whatever 30 is, whatever that means, it doesn't matter. and you calculated it after a month, and it said your average is 30, and your standard deviation was 20. That means you swing all the way down to 10, all the way up to 50. That is a very large standard deviation. Other people, their standard deviation might be three or five. And so you have to know What matters to you?
Whatever 30 is, whatever that means, it doesn't matter. and you calculated it after a month, and it said your average is 30, and your standard deviation was 20. That means you swing all the way down to 10, all the way up to 50. That is a very large standard deviation. Other people, their standard deviation might be three or five. And so you have to know What matters to you?
If your standard deviation is 20 and you wake up one day and instead of being at 30, which is your average, you're at 27, that means nothing to you. That is nothing because that's such a low percentage of your normal deviation.
If your standard deviation is 20 and you wake up one day and instead of being at 30, which is your average, you're at 27, that means nothing to you. That is nothing because that's such a low percentage of your normal deviation.
the opposite person, whose standard deviation is normally five, and they wake up and they're seven high or low, then that actually tells them something's going on that their system is responding to. So if you want my honest answer of how to use HRV the most appropriate, this is what we're paying attention to. Typically, again, just a rule of thumb here,
the opposite person, whose standard deviation is normally five, and they wake up and they're seven high or low, then that actually tells them something's going on that their system is responding to. So if you want my honest answer of how to use HRV the most appropriate, this is what we're paying attention to. Typically, again, just a rule of thumb here,
People that are more stable in their HRV are generally better. If you have a score that is doubling every other day, we would immediately start thinking, all right, this person's hyperreactive. Whatever they're doing is causing a huge change in their autonomic nervous system. We need to create more stability here. That's how we become more resilient. That's how we become more predictable.
People that are more stable in their HRV are generally better. If you have a score that is doubling every other day, we would immediately start thinking, all right, this person's hyperreactive. Whatever they're doing is causing a huge change in their autonomic nervous system. We need to create more stability here. That's how we become more resilient. That's how we become more predictable.
That's what we're after. If you're so tight, no matter what you do, we're getting the same response every day. Then we know that system is actually quite stable. And no matter what insult hits you that day, work stress, Environmental toxin, who cares? Your body is able to handle it. You're not hitting the wall on the highway. You're moving left and right, right?
That's what we're after. If you're so tight, no matter what you do, we're getting the same response every day. Then we know that system is actually quite stable. And no matter what insult hits you that day, work stress, Environmental toxin, who cares? Your body is able to handle it. You're not hitting the wall on the highway. You're moving left and right, right?
Your car is swerving, but you're not hitting the wall. So those numbers aren't changing. That's where we're bringing back that highway analogy. And that's what we're talking about when we're talking about nervous system stability. So we never make changes based on one day. We never use a cheap consumer wearable to tell us how to live our life.
Your car is swerving, but you're not hitting the wall. So those numbers aren't changing. That's where we're bringing back that highway analogy. And that's what we're talking about when we're talking about nervous system stability. So we never make changes based on one day. We never use a cheap consumer wearable to tell us how to live our life.
To exercise today or to not exercise, to sleep today or to not sleep today, that is, and I think the people behind most of these companies would say the same thing, that's not the best way to use something like an HRV score.
To exercise today or to not exercise, to sleep today or to not sleep today, that is, and I think the people behind most of these companies would say the same thing, that's not the best way to use something like an HRV score.
Interpret your numbers in the appropriate context, but regardless, we should be able to get better and maybe become more resilient in our overall nervous system responses to stress. Back to our highway analogy. What causes people to be more stable versus less stable with their HRV is a bunch of different stuff, genetics. And then it's also the dumb stuff. It is an irregular sleep schedule.
Interpret your numbers in the appropriate context, but regardless, we should be able to get better and maybe become more resilient in our overall nervous system responses to stress. Back to our highway analogy. What causes people to be more stable versus less stable with their HRV is a bunch of different stuff, genetics. And then it's also the dumb stuff. It is an irregular sleep schedule.
Once we get people sleeping just in a consistent time, HRV almost always goes up. In fact, so much so, it is very often the first thing I look at. When somebody asks me about their HRV, or we're going through their overall analysis of all their data, and we see HRV's poor, my eyes go right up to sleep irregularity. If their sleep is irregular, then I honestly don't go much past that.
Once we get people sleeping just in a consistent time, HRV almost always goes up. In fact, so much so, it is very often the first thing I look at. When somebody asks me about their HRV, or we're going through their overall analysis of all their data, and we see HRV's poor, my eyes go right up to sleep irregularity. If their sleep is irregular, then I honestly don't go much past that.
When their sleep irregularity goes up, HRV just goes up. So if you're like, man, I've been doing everything, I've been doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, my HRV doesn't go up, and your sleep's irregular, well, that's stop number one on the train. Other stuff is honestly, sorry to be sound this way, but it's kind of what I call the dumb stuff. It's alcohol.
When their sleep irregularity goes up, HRV just goes up. So if you're like, man, I've been doing everything, I've been doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, my HRV doesn't go up, and your sleep's irregular, well, that's stop number one on the train. Other stuff is honestly, sorry to be sound this way, but it's kind of what I call the dumb stuff. It's alcohol.
It is lots of bad negative health habits. All this stuff will bring it down. So if you remove all those from the equation, it's probably going to go up. Another one I wanted to bring up here. that people don't pay a lot of attention to. Two things have stood out when I was diving back through some of our databases. One was wild changes in exercise within the same week.
It is lots of bad negative health habits. All this stuff will bring it down. So if you remove all those from the equation, it's probably going to go up. Another one I wanted to bring up here. that people don't pay a lot of attention to. Two things have stood out when I was diving back through some of our databases. One was wild changes in exercise within the same week.
So what I mean by that is if you're pretty standard throughout the week, and then you're the type of person who goes bonkers with your exercise on the weekend, We see this huge instability of HRV.
So what I mean by that is if you're pretty standard throughout the week, and then you're the type of person who goes bonkers with your exercise on the weekend, We see this huge instability of HRV.
So whether you do your 10 mile run on the weekend, or you do the multiple classes, or you like to play five hours of pickleball or whatever, and it is drastically different than your week, that will also explain a lot of instability with your HRV and your resting heart rate for that matter. So that one will sneak up on people.
So whether you do your 10 mile run on the weekend, or you do the multiple classes, or you like to play five hours of pickleball or whatever, and it is drastically different than your week, that will also explain a lot of instability with your HRV and your resting heart rate for that matter. So that one will sneak up on people.
The last one I'll bring up is actually nutrition related, feeding frequency of food. Specifically, we have had a number of people come in for sleep-related issues, whether that is really bad sleep or just kind of suboptimal sleep, and they're eating one meal a day. Now, I'm not fundamentally opposed to one meal a day, but in our experience, this has led to really, really compromised HRVs.
The last one I'll bring up is actually nutrition related, feeding frequency of food. Specifically, we have had a number of people come in for sleep-related issues, whether that is really bad sleep or just kind of suboptimal sleep, and they're eating one meal a day. Now, I'm not fundamentally opposed to one meal a day, but in our experience, this has led to really, really compromised HRVs.
What has happened many times is these individuals feel good, okay, or great for 30 days or 45 days, maybe up to 90 days. But then you see the nervous system just starting to pay the price. I'm not trying to indicate that one meal a day is bad for your health. Again, I'm going on my personal experience and the data we have in our companies and we've just seen it not go well.
What has happened many times is these individuals feel good, okay, or great for 30 days or 45 days, maybe up to 90 days. But then you see the nervous system just starting to pay the price. I'm not trying to indicate that one meal a day is bad for your health. Again, I'm going on my personal experience and the data we have in our companies and we've just seen it not go well.
And we've at the same time seen people then who eat more frequently. in terms of they were eating one meal a day and they change and go to a two or three and the nervous system sends to recover. I want to be real clear here. I don't only mean their HRV score. That does happen. But it's other signs and symptoms as well.
And we've at the same time seen people then who eat more frequently. in terms of they were eating one meal a day and they change and go to a two or three and the nervous system sends to recover. I want to be real clear here. I don't only mean their HRV score. That does happen. But it's other signs and symptoms as well.
It's objective measures of say sleep quality, cognitive function, performance and so forth. They feel good. But their physiology in the longer term isn't responding how they think or hoping it really is. So if you are a one meal a day or fine, great. If you feel awesome, awesome. Keep doing it. I'm only bringing this up to where if you've made a change recently and you're like, what the heck?
It's objective measures of say sleep quality, cognitive function, performance and so forth. They feel good. But their physiology in the longer term isn't responding how they think or hoping it really is. So if you are a one meal a day or fine, great. If you feel awesome, awesome. Keep doing it. I'm only bringing this up to where if you've made a change recently and you're like, what the heck?
Why is my HIV going down? That, I think, is the most appropriate way to interpret it as this is maybe one of the things that happens with lack of feeding throughout the day is it creates some potentially somewhat of a neurological or nervous system stressor that will alter HRV. So lots of other things I could bring up here, but those are the ones that I thought were most interesting.
Why is my HIV going down? That, I think, is the most appropriate way to interpret it as this is maybe one of the things that happens with lack of feeding throughout the day is it creates some potentially somewhat of a neurological or nervous system stressor that will alter HRV. So lots of other things I could bring up here, but those are the ones that I thought were most interesting.
It's a combination of some of the stuff that is most well-documented, the alcohol, the emotional regularity, so on and so forth, with some things I thought that maybe some of you would find interesting in that we've just seen behind the scenes that is not necessarily in the peer-reviewed literature. Today's episode is sponsored by 8sleep.
It's a combination of some of the stuff that is most well-documented, the alcohol, the emotional regularity, so on and so forth, with some things I thought that maybe some of you would find interesting in that we've just seen behind the scenes that is not necessarily in the peer-reviewed literature. Today's episode is sponsored by 8sleep.
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We have a little bit of an algorithm we use when determining if a change in HRV matters to us. So how do you interpret this context? Number one, we always check to make sure we got good data. I talked about that earlier. If they don't, then I disregard it. But let's say they do. Most of the time they do. So we've got good data, however you define that.
We have a little bit of an algorithm we use when determining if a change in HRV matters to us. So how do you interpret this context? Number one, we always check to make sure we got good data. I talked about that earlier. If they don't, then I disregard it. But let's say they do. Most of the time they do. So we've got good data, however you define that.
Next question I'm asking is, are we talking about one day? Or has this been happening for more than three, ideally more than five to seven days? If it is acute, single day, second day, third day only, then I'm asking the next set of questions, which is, okay, what are we doing with your training right now? If we're in a phase where we're trying to cause physiological adaptations,
Next question I'm asking is, are we talking about one day? Or has this been happening for more than three, ideally more than five to seven days? If it is acute, single day, second day, third day only, then I'm asking the next set of questions, which is, okay, what are we doing with your training right now? If we're in a phase where we're trying to cause physiological adaptations,
I'm trying to stress you. So if your HRV is lower and I'm seeing signs of stress, that's exactly what we're pushing for. That's a good thing. We're not changing anything. This is one of the huge flaws of general technologies that just tell you what to do with your workout, your nutrition based on today's score. Oh, your HRV is low, therefore take a day off.
I'm trying to stress you. So if your HRV is lower and I'm seeing signs of stress, that's exactly what we're pushing for. That's a good thing. We're not changing anything. This is one of the huge flaws of general technologies that just tell you what to do with your workout, your nutrition based on today's score. Oh, your HRV is low, therefore take a day off.
That's a really bad approach because it doesn't understand what you're trying to do in the long term or even the medium term in this case. So if we see an HRV that is low, and it's been down for two or three days, and we're in a phase where we're in the off season, we're trying to build up change, we're in a caloric deficit, and we're working hard. I don't care. You are a little bit stressed.
That's a really bad approach because it doesn't understand what you're trying to do in the long term or even the medium term in this case. So if we see an HRV that is low, and it's been down for two or three days, and we're in a phase where we're in the off season, we're trying to build up change, we're in a caloric deficit, and we're working hard. I don't care. You are a little bit stressed.
That's the point that's going to cause adaptation. We're going to ignore. That said, if we're in a phase where we're supposed to be peaking, I'm trying to feel good. Whether we're peaking for sports performance or you're simply saying, I need to be on today. I need to have a great day. This is a really important thing I'm doing in my family life or work life or something like that.
That's the point that's going to cause adaptation. We're going to ignore. That said, if we're in a phase where we're supposed to be peaking, I'm trying to feel good. Whether we're peaking for sports performance or you're simply saying, I need to be on today. I need to have a great day. This is a really important thing I'm doing in my family life or work life or something like that.
My HRV has been down for a couple of days and I got to get it fixed because I'm trying to perform my best right now. Then we're going to do what I call acute state shifters. And I got a whole category of these things to cover for you here in one second. But I'm going to give them tons of different strategies that they can pull out one or more of these acute shifters.
My HRV has been down for a couple of days and I got to get it fixed because I'm trying to perform my best right now. Then we're going to do what I call acute state shifters. And I got a whole category of these things to cover for you here in one second. But I'm going to give them tons of different strategies that they can pull out one or more of these acute shifters.
And I promise you, these will make that HRV go up right now. They'll go up today. They'll probably be up again tomorrow. And you'll be fine. We'll be back in the sweet spot. Going back up our algorithm a little bit. If we got good data... and this has not just been a one or two day thing, but it's been here for five or seven or 10 days or longer, then I'm gonna ask the same follow-up question.
And I promise you, these will make that HRV go up right now. They'll go up today. They'll probably be up again tomorrow. And you'll be fine. We'll be back in the sweet spot. Going back up our algorithm a little bit. If we got good data... and this has not just been a one or two day thing, but it's been here for five or seven or 10 days or longer, then I'm gonna ask the same follow-up question.
Number one, are we trying to induce adaptation? If so, I'm not gonna ignore it, but I'm gonna watch it carefully. Not necessarily gonna change your workout program today, but we are gonna watch it carefully. If it is really suppressed, meaning it's more than two standard deviations, outside your normal for more than five days, we're going to take action. We're going to do something. Okay.
Number one, are we trying to induce adaptation? If so, I'm not gonna ignore it, but I'm gonna watch it carefully. Not necessarily gonna change your workout program today, but we are gonna watch it carefully. If it is really suppressed, meaning it's more than two standard deviations, outside your normal for more than five days, we're going to take action. We're going to do something. Okay.
If that was really technical for you, if it's a really big change and it's around a long time and you're really feeling bad, your motivation, your energy, you feel junky, then, then we're going to, we're going to take action. Okay. If we're in a phase where we're trying to perform our best, and that's been down for a long time. Then we're gonna go to what I call chronic solutions.
If that was really technical for you, if it's a really big change and it's around a long time and you're really feeling bad, your motivation, your energy, you feel junky, then, then we're going to, we're going to take action. Okay. If we're in a phase where we're trying to perform our best, and that's been down for a long time. Then we're gonna go to what I call chronic solutions.
So we have our acute solutions and our chronic solutions. And so ultimately, we wanna make sure we're using the right tool for the right task. Now, I'm gonna go through all those Briefly, but before we do that, I wanna finish talking about respiratory rate as well, because it's a little bit of a different interpretation. I've given you some sample numbers earlier.
So we have our acute solutions and our chronic solutions. And so ultimately, we wanna make sure we're using the right tool for the right task. Now, I'm gonna go through all those Briefly, but before we do that, I wanna finish talking about respiratory rate as well, because it's a little bit of a different interpretation. I've given you some sample numbers earlier.
I kept saying 14 breaths per minute or 15 breaths per minute. And I'm doing that because the literature will show you. The cutoff line seems to be about 16 breaths per minute. If you are over 16, there is clear and consistent literature tying that to everything from risk of a cardiovascular event, myocardial infarction or stroke,
I kept saying 14 breaths per minute or 15 breaths per minute. And I'm doing that because the literature will show you. The cutoff line seems to be about 16 breaths per minute. If you are over 16, there is clear and consistent literature tying that to everything from risk of a cardiovascular event, myocardial infarction or stroke,
or things like that is tied to clinical deterioration pain emotional stress cognitive load and a whole host of things that you don't want to be anywhere near if you are at 16 you're right on that line and i'm not trying to overly scare you but if you're above that i'm going to make the case that you as long as our data are accurate which is again a whole other question
or things like that is tied to clinical deterioration pain emotional stress cognitive load and a whole host of things that you don't want to be anywhere near if you are at 16 you're right on that line and i'm not trying to overly scare you but if you're above that i'm going to make the case that you as long as our data are accurate which is again a whole other question
But if you are up there, then we have a case of chronic over-breathing, whether that is chronic hyperventilation, that's a medical diagnosis, not for me to decide, but you are over-breathing in my opinion, and we're going to want to bring that thing down. Most of the time I'm looking at, if you are in the 10 to 14 range, and then I don't see anything else, I'm good here.
But if you are up there, then we have a case of chronic over-breathing, whether that is chronic hyperventilation, that's a medical diagnosis, not for me to decide, but you are over-breathing in my opinion, and we're going to want to bring that thing down. Most of the time I'm looking at, if you are in the 10 to 14 range, and then I don't see anything else, I'm good here.
If you're 15, I'm asking a lot of follow-up questions. You're 15, 16, I'm probably going to ask us to do something. If we have a bunch of other major issues, maybe I'm not too worried about it. But if you're over 16, then this is going to be one of our top tier priorities. Because of all the reasons I shared earlier about what happens when you're overventilating.
If you're 15, I'm asking a lot of follow-up questions. You're 15, 16, I'm probably going to ask us to do something. If we have a bunch of other major issues, maybe I'm not too worried about it. But if you're over 16, then this is going to be one of our top tier priorities. Because of all the reasons I shared earlier about what happens when you're overventilating.
Lots of short and long-term issues. And so this is exactly how we interpret those numbers. Let's say you're at 16 or 17. Okay, very first stop on this train, I want to make sure your breathing mechanics are okay. Very simple first principles here.
Lots of short and long-term issues. And so this is exactly how we interpret those numbers. Let's say you're at 16 or 17. Okay, very first stop on this train, I want to make sure your breathing mechanics are okay. Very simple first principles here.
If you are ineffective with your breathing strategy, whether you're breathing through your shoulders and your neck, or clavicular breathing, whether your diaphragm doesn't work appropriately, your intercostals are weak, your position or your posture is bad, so bad that it's infecting your, well, then you can't breathe well. You're going to have to bring more often.
If you are ineffective with your breathing strategy, whether you're breathing through your shoulders and your neck, or clavicular breathing, whether your diaphragm doesn't work appropriately, your intercostals are weak, your position or your posture is bad, so bad that it's infecting your, well, then you can't breathe well. You're going to have to bring more often.
This is simply, if you're weak in a spot, you have to do it more often. If you can imagine being hunched over, right? Touch your front of your shoulder to your knee and try to breathe. You can't. So you're going to breathe more frequently to get the same amount of air in. That's an exaggerated example, but you get the point.
This is simply, if you're weak in a spot, you have to do it more often. If you can imagine being hunched over, right? Touch your front of your shoulder to your knee and try to breathe. You can't. So you're going to breathe more frequently to get the same amount of air in. That's an exaggerated example, but you get the point.
So number one, before I'm worried about some long-term intervention with you, I just want to make sure that it's not a mechanical issue. Past that, we're gonna look at breathing problems. And what I mean by that are everything from allergies to nasal blockage to clinical sleep disorders. If you can't breathe through your nose, there's a strong chance you're gonna be hyperventilating.
So number one, before I'm worried about some long-term intervention with you, I just want to make sure that it's not a mechanical issue. Past that, we're gonna look at breathing problems. And what I mean by that are everything from allergies to nasal blockage to clinical sleep disorders. If you can't breathe through your nose, there's a strong chance you're gonna be hyperventilating.
It's not a guarantee, but we've just seen that really highly associated. So step number one, the way that we're gonna interpret this higher respiratory rate, okay, maybe it's a sign that mechanical breathing technique is not great. Nope. How's your nose? Oh yeah, I'm stuffed up all the time. Have polyps. Can you breathe through your nose ever? No, never. Are you a mouth breather? Okay, great.
It's not a guarantee, but we've just seen that really highly associated. So step number one, the way that we're gonna interpret this higher respiratory rate, okay, maybe it's a sign that mechanical breathing technique is not great. Nope. How's your nose? Oh yeah, I'm stuffed up all the time. Have polyps. Can you breathe through your nose ever? No, never. Are you a mouth breather? Okay, great.
Then we're going right there. I'm not going into anything else past this until we fix breathing out of your nose. Dehydration can do the same thing. So if you just notice your respiratory rates up one particular day, oh my gosh, and then you properly hydrate, it probably goes back down. Nothing to worry about long-term there. After that, things get a little bit more work intensive.
Then we're going right there. I'm not going into anything else past this until we fix breathing out of your nose. Dehydration can do the same thing. So if you just notice your respiratory rates up one particular day, oh my gosh, and then you properly hydrate, it probably goes back down. Nothing to worry about long-term there. After that, things get a little bit more work intensive.
So it could be a CO2 intolerance thing. If you're highly sensitive to that CO2, your brain can sometimes get miscalibrated. It thinks there's way too much CO2 in the system than there actually is. So you're either hyper-stressed or hypersensitive. And so it starts asking you to dump and offload that CO2 way sooner than it needs to. You're intolerant or hypersensitive, one of those two.
So it could be a CO2 intolerance thing. If you're highly sensitive to that CO2, your brain can sometimes get miscalibrated. It thinks there's way too much CO2 in the system than there actually is. So you're either hyper-stressed or hypersensitive. And so it starts asking you to dump and offload that CO2 way sooner than it needs to. You're intolerant or hypersensitive, one of those two.
In that case, we can confirm that. So we see your respiratory rate is elevated. We also then run that CO2 tolerance test on you. Oh, that's also poor? Then great. We don't need to do anything else with your respiratory rate. We fixed your CO2 tolerance and that respiratory rate will take care of itself. Other things to think about here if your respiratory rate is high.
In that case, we can confirm that. So we see your respiratory rate is elevated. We also then run that CO2 tolerance test on you. Oh, that's also poor? Then great. We don't need to do anything else with your respiratory rate. We fixed your CO2 tolerance and that respiratory rate will take care of itself. Other things to think about here if your respiratory rate is high.
It could just be a long-term pattern. Remember earlier when I talked about how these can go from initiating factors to sustaining factors? We've experienced this a lot in our middle to later aged adults, right?
It could just be a long-term pattern. Remember earlier when I talked about how these can go from initiating factors to sustaining factors? We've experienced this a lot in our middle to later aged adults, right?
These are often folks that came from high stress environments, high stress careers, whether these have been lots of former surgeons, military individuals, entrepreneurs, things like that, where they just had high stress for a long period of time. the over-breathing was appropriate because they were in a stressful environment. And then they sell the company, they retire, they reduce their hours.
These are often folks that came from high stress environments, high stress careers, whether these have been lots of former surgeons, military individuals, entrepreneurs, things like that, where they just had high stress for a long period of time. the over-breathing was appropriate because they were in a stressful environment. And then they sell the company, they retire, they reduce their hours.
And then years later, they're still over-breathing. And in the cases where we've had years of data on people, we've seen this confirmed pretty well. That pattern just exists. You're just over-breathing and you don't know it. So that has happened a lot. You got to go break that pattern. One of the biggest causes of this has actually been pregnancy.
And then years later, they're still over-breathing. And in the cases where we've had years of data on people, we've seen this confirmed pretty well. That pattern just exists. You're just over-breathing and you don't know it. So that has happened a lot. You got to go break that pattern. One of the biggest causes of this has actually been pregnancy.
A lot of things can happen post having a child for women, and those patterns can be established and stay permanent unless you go back in there and actively reframe and rebuild a new pattern. Last one then here is what we would finally call general elevated allostatic load, whether this is physical or mental.
A lot of things can happen post having a child for women, and those patterns can be established and stay permanent unless you go back in there and actively reframe and rebuild a new pattern. Last one then here is what we would finally call general elevated allostatic load, whether this is physical or mental.
Remember, allostatic load is that colloquial term for kind of like global stress on your body, no matter how it comes in or not. I went through all that list for a bunch of reasons, but one of them is I want you to realize that that stress thing is the last one. We don't look at respiratory rate and go, oh, you're stressed.
Remember, allostatic load is that colloquial term for kind of like global stress on your body, no matter how it comes in or not. I went through all that list for a bunch of reasons, but one of them is I want you to realize that that stress thing is the last one. We don't look at respiratory rate and go, oh, you're stressed.
That could be, but it could simply be the fact that you can't breathe out of your nose. It could be something, you're not hydrated. It could be the fact that you're just intolerant or sensitive to CO2 or any number of reasons. And that is the pecking order. That's the strategy we go off of when we try to solve those simple problems first.
That could be, but it could simply be the fact that you can't breathe out of your nose. It could be something, you're not hydrated. It could be the fact that you're just intolerant or sensitive to CO2 or any number of reasons. And that is the pecking order. That's the strategy we go off of when we try to solve those simple problems first.
And in our experience, you get through one through four, mechanics, breathing problems, hydration, and CO2 tolerance. Most of the time, your situation is solved. Whether you pick any of the metrics I just talked about today, heart rate or respiratory rate or anything else, or you pick something else entirely different. I think most of us in this field would agree.
And in our experience, you get through one through four, mechanics, breathing problems, hydration, and CO2 tolerance. Most of the time, your situation is solved. Whether you pick any of the metrics I just talked about today, heart rate or respiratory rate or anything else, or you pick something else entirely different. I think most of us in this field would agree.
You should not be overly fixated on one metric. There is no best number here. And there's problems with data and interpretation and normative values and so forth. Things like stress, things like recovery are multifaceted. You need multiple objective and subjective measures before you get too excited.
You should not be overly fixated on one metric. There is no best number here. And there's problems with data and interpretation and normative values and so forth. Things like stress, things like recovery are multifaceted. You need multiple objective and subjective measures before you get too excited.
Let's actually finally talk about what some of these interventions are and how we can improve overall nervous system resilience. It makes sense for us to start off with the acute changes. This is the stuff you can do right now in any given moment, and it will change how you're feeling and experiencing life. It will shift your state. You already know this.
Let's actually finally talk about what some of these interventions are and how we can improve overall nervous system resilience. It makes sense for us to start off with the acute changes. This is the stuff you can do right now in any given moment, and it will change how you're feeling and experiencing life. It will shift your state. You already know this.
This is what I call the four by four matrix. So picture on one part of the matrix, your physiology, on another part, your autonomic nervous system. What I'm going to share with you is how physiology can change autonomic nervous system and it can make it go up or it can make it go down. Autonomic nervous system can do the same thing with physiology. So it's a four-way street here.
This is what I call the four by four matrix. So picture on one part of the matrix, your physiology, on another part, your autonomic nervous system. What I'm going to share with you is how physiology can change autonomic nervous system and it can make it go up or it can make it go down. Autonomic nervous system can do the same thing with physiology. So it's a four-way street here.
Really easy examples. If you want to make your physiology change your autonomic nervous system and you want to make it go up, just scream. Yell right now. Flex your muscles as hard as you possibly can. You do anything like that with your physical body, that will cause your autonomic nervous system to change instantaneously. Heart rate will go up. Respiratory rate will change. Adrenaline levels.
Really easy examples. If you want to make your physiology change your autonomic nervous system and you want to make it go up, just scream. Yell right now. Flex your muscles as hard as you possibly can. You do anything like that with your physical body, that will cause your autonomic nervous system to change instantaneously. Heart rate will go up. Respiratory rate will change. Adrenaline levels.
You picked your metric. Physiology directly increasing autonomic nervous system activity. You can also do the opposite. You could do a physiological double sigh. You could do progressive muscle relaxation. You simply relax your forearm, and this could cause a change in your autonomic nervous system. You get the idea. That is physiology to ANS. ANS to physiology is basically the opposite.
You picked your metric. Physiology directly increasing autonomic nervous system activity. You can also do the opposite. You could do a physiological double sigh. You could do progressive muscle relaxation. You simply relax your forearm, and this could cause a change in your autonomic nervous system. You get the idea. That is physiology to ANS. ANS to physiology is basically the opposite.
You get scared. Big shot of adrenaline happens. This will physically increase your strength capacity, force production, and power output in your muscles. And autonomic nervous system change. You could do this with a supplement or a drug. We could go down. You could be more zen. You could take, again, a medication. It could lower your heart rate.
You get scared. Big shot of adrenaline happens. This will physically increase your strength capacity, force production, and power output in your muscles. And autonomic nervous system change. You could do this with a supplement or a drug. We could go down. You could be more zen. You could take, again, a medication. It could lower your heart rate.
And because of that, it could have a physical response as well. So you intuitively know the answer. You want to change and regulate your autonomic nervous system. You have the capacity and you already know the basics of it. I break these acute and chronic actions up into a bunch of different categories.
And because of that, it could have a physical response as well. So you intuitively know the answer. You want to change and regulate your autonomic nervous system. You have the capacity and you already know the basics of it. I break these acute and chronic actions up into a bunch of different categories.
For me, that looks like there are food-based solutions, there are supplements, there are thermal stressors, so temperature. Of course, there's breath work. There are what I call brain distractions or brain alterations, basic rest or sleep. There's light things you can do like physical light. There's movement stuff, physical movement. And then there's what I call motivation.
For me, that looks like there are food-based solutions, there are supplements, there are thermal stressors, so temperature. Of course, there's breath work. There are what I call brain distractions or brain alterations, basic rest or sleep. There's light things you can do like physical light. There's movement stuff, physical movement. And then there's what I call motivation.
Tons and tons and tons of examples. Most of them though are acute. Let's take motivation, for example. If you scrolled on social media and came across a phenomenal Cameron Haynes or Jocko Willink quote, you might get inspired. That could change your autonomic nervous system. That could change your arousal state right now. You might have been low energy, lethargic.
Tons and tons and tons of examples. Most of them though are acute. Let's take motivation, for example. If you scrolled on social media and came across a phenomenal Cameron Haynes or Jocko Willink quote, you might get inspired. That could change your autonomic nervous system. That could change your arousal state right now. You might have been low energy, lethargic.
That could put you in more sympathetic drive. Your HRV will change if it is actually sufficiently motivating to you. You could read a story or a book or watch a movie. You could do a physical warmup, start training, do some hops. I mentioned earlier, flex as hard as you can.
That could put you in more sympathetic drive. Your HRV will change if it is actually sufficiently motivating to you. You could read a story or a book or watch a movie. You could do a physical warmup, start training, do some hops. I mentioned earlier, flex as hard as you can.
If I shine a bright light directly in your face, all these things would change your state in the moment, but none of those are gonna make your chronic HRV improve over time. These are mostly short-term solutions. The chronic ones are a little bit more difficult, okay? This is when we get into stuff like biofeedback training. If you have sleep issues, getting a chronic sleep improvement.
If I shine a bright light directly in your face, all these things would change your state in the moment, but none of those are gonna make your chronic HRV improve over time. These are mostly short-term solutions. The chronic ones are a little bit more difficult, okay? This is when we get into stuff like biofeedback training. If you have sleep issues, getting a chronic sleep improvement.
If you are chronically under-exercised, start exercising more. If you are really off, particularly if you are low in caloric intake, you're hypocaloric for too long, this might have a chronic effect of bringing more calories back. And then there are things like, again, thermal exposure that can have a chronic effect, but most of that stuff is pretty direct and acute.
If you are chronically under-exercised, start exercising more. If you are really off, particularly if you are low in caloric intake, you're hypocaloric for too long, this might have a chronic effect of bringing more calories back. And then there are things like, again, thermal exposure that can have a chronic effect, but most of that stuff is pretty direct and acute.
Give you a really easy example. I've been doing a cold water immersion, cold water exposures for a very long time. I do not use them because I think it adds a minute to my life. I do not use them to burn more fat. You guys can all debate whether or not you think those things exist. But for me, we have used it for stuff like this. We actually ran a bunch of experiments.
Give you a really easy example. I've been doing a cold water immersion, cold water exposures for a very long time. I do not use them because I think it adds a minute to my life. I do not use them to burn more fat. You guys can all debate whether or not you think those things exist. But for me, we have used it for stuff like this. We actually ran a bunch of experiments.
We never published this stuff. We didn't take it through IRB. We just ran it with a bunch of our athletes. And what we found was if you look at somebody's HRV very specifically, and then you put them in a cold bath, cold water for two to five minutes. How cold? I don't know. In American units here, somewhere between 30 to 50 degrees. It didn't really matter that much, to be honest.
We never published this stuff. We didn't take it through IRB. We just ran it with a bunch of our athletes. And what we found was if you look at somebody's HRV very specifically, and then you put them in a cold bath, cold water for two to five minutes. How cold? I don't know. In American units here, somewhere between 30 to 50 degrees. It didn't really matter that much, to be honest.
And you sat them there. Here's what would happen. Your HRV immediately post the ice bath when you got out would go down. No surprise. If you get in cold, really cold water, you get shot immediately into sympathetic drive. Low HRV. Remember, fight or flight. However, as quickly as 30 minutes post, your HRV will be 10 to 20% higher than more down-regulated than you were before the cold.
And you sat them there. Here's what would happen. Your HRV immediately post the ice bath when you got out would go down. No surprise. If you get in cold, really cold water, you get shot immediately into sympathetic drive. Low HRV. Remember, fight or flight. However, as quickly as 30 minutes post, your HRV will be 10 to 20% higher than more down-regulated than you were before the cold.
And that continued to increase for about the next three hours or so. And we ran this stuff by actually checking HRV like every 15 minutes for several hours. So we had 30 minutes post, 45 minutes post, 60 minutes post, et cetera, et cetera, all the way up to 180 posts, and we stopped measuring at that.
And that continued to increase for about the next three hours or so. And we ran this stuff by actually checking HRV like every 15 minutes for several hours. So we had 30 minutes post, 45 minutes post, 60 minutes post, et cetera, et cetera, all the way up to 180 posts, and we stopped measuring at that.
And still, 180 minutes post-cold water immersion, HRV was higher, significantly higher, 25 to 50%, depending on the person, higher. three hours after the cold bath. And so while I know that most of us think about it as like that short-term thing, No, I don't have peer-reviewed publications on this, but we saw this enough to where I was like, yeah, okay, great.
And still, 180 minutes post-cold water immersion, HRV was higher, significantly higher, 25 to 50%, depending on the person, higher. three hours after the cold bath. And so while I know that most of us think about it as like that short-term thing, No, I don't have peer-reviewed publications on this, but we saw this enough to where I was like, yeah, okay, great.
And it also stacked up with what I feel. It's going to last today. Now, will this last weeks and months? I don't know. Don't think so. Probably, if I had to guess. But it certainly will give you a nice acute bump. And by acute, I mean several hours and several days, right? If you hate the ice, you think it is terrible or you don't like it at all, fine. I got 50 more examples I can give you.
And it also stacked up with what I feel. It's going to last today. Now, will this last weeks and months? I don't know. Don't think so. Probably, if I had to guess. But it certainly will give you a nice acute bump. And by acute, I mean several hours and several days, right? If you hate the ice, you think it is terrible or you don't like it at all, fine. I got 50 more examples I can give you.
It's just one that showed up as really clear evidence to us. Changing gears entirely. You can do this without moving your physical body at all, without suffering, by just doing what are called visual resets. Mentioned him a couple of times now, but thank you, Dr. Andrew Huberman. Some of his early podcasts on his platform, his show, talked a lot about this.
It's just one that showed up as really clear evidence to us. Changing gears entirely. You can do this without moving your physical body at all, without suffering, by just doing what are called visual resets. Mentioned him a couple of times now, but thank you, Dr. Andrew Huberman. Some of his early podcasts on his platform, his show, talked a lot about this.
But visual resets, I know his lab worked on it a lot, are really compelling and really effective. Lots of ways you can do this. There are simple drills like eye circles. So you stand there and basically run a big loop with your eyes circling around. That will change your sympathetic drive.
But visual resets, I know his lab worked on it a lot, are really compelling and really effective. Lots of ways you can do this. There are simple drills like eye circles. So you stand there and basically run a big loop with your eyes circling around. That will change your sympathetic drive.
Other ones that, again, my colleague Emily Hightower I know uses a lot are things like a smooth H. You can see this, and the literature is really clear here. There's lots of different cortical and visual resets, but this stuff is really fantastic and super effective. A different one entirely. that I think a lot of you exercisers and strength trainers will like. It's a modified valsalva maneuver.
Other ones that, again, my colleague Emily Hightower I know uses a lot are things like a smooth H. You can see this, and the literature is really clear here. There's lots of different cortical and visual resets, but this stuff is really fantastic and super effective. A different one entirely. that I think a lot of you exercisers and strength trainers will like. It's a modified valsalva maneuver.
The valsalva maneuver is that intra-abdominal pressure that you create when you're doing things like lifting weights or having a bowel movement. This is exactly how you use it. Again, we're still talking about chronic or acute rather. This is something you're going to do right now.
The valsalva maneuver is that intra-abdominal pressure that you create when you're doing things like lifting weights or having a bowel movement. This is exactly how you use it. Again, we're still talking about chronic or acute rather. This is something you're going to do right now.
It's not going to fix your long-term stuff, but it'll give you that change when you're feeling like you need it right now. So you're going to hold your breath. You can do an inhale and hold, or you can do an exhale and hold. It doesn't really matter, but you're going to hold and then create a bunch of intra-abdominal pressure.
It's not going to fix your long-term stuff, but it'll give you that change when you're feeling like you need it right now. So you're going to hold your breath. You can do an inhale and hold, or you can do an exhale and hold. It doesn't really matter, but you're going to hold and then create a bunch of intra-abdominal pressure.
And what's really key about this is the pressure needs to be in a true 360 degree range. Here's the analogy I like in this one. Imagine you are a can of soda. So you're a barrel, if you will. And the bottom of the barrel that's sitting flat on the ground is your pelvic floor. And the top is your diaphragm. So these are running parallel to each other.
And what's really key about this is the pressure needs to be in a true 360 degree range. Here's the analogy I like in this one. Imagine you are a can of soda. So you're a barrel, if you will. And the bottom of the barrel that's sitting flat on the ground is your pelvic floor. And the top is your diaphragm. So these are running parallel to each other.
And then the barrel, or the can of soda, however you like to think about it, is everything from the front of your stomach to the side of your stomach all the way to your back. You want to create pressure against all of those surfaces. So imagine you're trying to explode that barrel. Every way. You're trying to blow the bottom out. So blow the bottom into the ground.
And then the barrel, or the can of soda, however you like to think about it, is everything from the front of your stomach to the side of your stomach all the way to your back. You want to create pressure against all of those surfaces. So imagine you're trying to explode that barrel. Every way. You're trying to blow the bottom out. So blow the bottom into the ground.
You're trying to blow the top up in the air and you're trying to blow every side out each individual way, right? That's how we do it. It's not just a crunch. It's not a back extension. It's not anything else. It is a all quadrants, vertical and horizontal. And you're going to do that and you're going to hold it for 10 seconds.
You're trying to blow the top up in the air and you're trying to blow every side out each individual way, right? That's how we do it. It's not just a crunch. It's not a back extension. It's not anything else. It is a all quadrants, vertical and horizontal. And you're going to do that and you're going to hold it for 10 seconds.
In doing that, you're going to see your heart rate jump from 60, 70 beats per minute to 120. It'll shoot way, way, way up in the air. But then at the end of those 10 seconds, you exhale. And actually the literature suggests that it doesn't really matter how you exhale. Go slowly, go through your mouth, go through your nose, kind of let it all dump out quickly.
In doing that, you're going to see your heart rate jump from 60, 70 beats per minute to 120. It'll shoot way, way, way up in the air. But then at the end of those 10 seconds, you exhale. And actually the literature suggests that it doesn't really matter how you exhale. Go slowly, go through your mouth, go through your nose, kind of let it all dump out quickly.
It doesn't actually matter that much. In doing that, that heart rate will go from 110 or 120 all the way now down to like 40 or 50. So before you started the drill, you were at 60 or 70, and now your new baseline is significantly lower. Really effective. You can do it anywhere. It takes just a few seconds to do. It doesn't cost you any money at all.
It doesn't actually matter that much. In doing that, that heart rate will go from 110 or 120 all the way now down to like 40 or 50. So before you started the drill, you were at 60 or 70, and now your new baseline is significantly lower. Really effective. You can do it anywhere. It takes just a few seconds to do. It doesn't cost you any money at all.
And it is particularly good at altering what are called baroreceptors that have specific action on that vagus nerve. And so you can do this. The magnitude of effect is actually really, really high. You'll hear in a second, but there's different technology you can use to directly stimulate your vagus nerve. But the magnitude of effect is much lower than something like this Valsalva.
And it is particularly good at altering what are called baroreceptors that have specific action on that vagus nerve. And so you can do this. The magnitude of effect is actually really, really high. You'll hear in a second, but there's different technology you can use to directly stimulate your vagus nerve. But the magnitude of effect is much lower than something like this Valsalva.
So it's free, it's cheap, it's easy. You can do it a bunch and it has a big magnitude of effect. Couple of caveats here with this modified Valsalva though. If you are prone to orthostatic issues, you pass out a lot, you have low blood pressure, don't do this. Don't do this if you're by water or in a pool or in the ocean. Don't do this a whole bunch of times.
So it's free, it's cheap, it's easy. You can do it a bunch and it has a big magnitude of effect. Couple of caveats here with this modified Valsalva though. If you are prone to orthostatic issues, you pass out a lot, you have low blood pressure, don't do this. Don't do this if you're by water or in a pool or in the ocean. Don't do this a whole bunch of times.
Probably don't do this immediately during your workout. All the caveats aside, right? You're going to create a bunch of intra-abdominal pressure. You're going to block a lot of blood flow, if not occluded entirely. Don't pass out. Don't fall into water. Don't drown. Don't do all that stuff. Another option, like I just mentioned, are what are called those vagal nerve stimulators.
Probably don't do this immediately during your workout. All the caveats aside, right? You're going to create a bunch of intra-abdominal pressure. You're going to block a lot of blood flow, if not occluded entirely. Don't pass out. Don't fall into water. Don't drown. Don't do all that stuff. Another option, like I just mentioned, are what are called those vagal nerve stimulators.
These are somewhat new. There are a handful of FDA approved devices that you can use. You generally have to have a prescription to get them though. You can buy a ton of these as normal consumers. And I have not been impressed with any of them. The data are, I would say, weak at best on them. I have personally used many of them and found like I got nothing out of it.
These are somewhat new. There are a handful of FDA approved devices that you can use. You generally have to have a prescription to get them though. You can buy a ton of these as normal consumers. And I have not been impressed with any of them. The data are, I would say, weak at best on them. I have personally used many of them and found like I got nothing out of it.
The people we had try it got nothing out of it at all. The studies that are the most supportive are ones that are funded by the companies themselves. So that doesn't inherently mean the data are wrong or bad or manipulated, but you all know what that means. So for me, when it comes to these commercially available nerve stimulators,
The people we had try it got nothing out of it at all. The studies that are the most supportive are ones that are funded by the companies themselves. So that doesn't inherently mean the data are wrong or bad or manipulated, but you all know what that means. So for me, when it comes to these commercially available nerve stimulators,
Until we can see some more independent testing done and the data are more impressive, I generally don't like to use them. That said, if you had a different experience and you like it a lot, that's by all means, that's great. Use it. I have tried some of the clinical ones, the FDA approved ones, the ones that require a prescription, and those are far more powerful. Those have been effective.
Until we can see some more independent testing done and the data are more impressive, I generally don't like to use them. That said, if you had a different experience and you like it a lot, that's by all means, that's great. Use it. I have tried some of the clinical ones, the FDA approved ones, the ones that require a prescription, and those are far more powerful. Those have been effective.
I specifically have used one called the Gamma Core. You have to have a RX for it, as I mentioned. No affiliation to the company. But it is quite effective. You'll notice it pretty substantially. Your data will change almost instantaneously if you're measuring it and monitoring it. So mostly when it comes to these things, these are coming from neurologists, people with severe migraines.
I specifically have used one called the Gamma Core. You have to have a RX for it, as I mentioned. No affiliation to the company. But it is quite effective. You'll notice it pretty substantially. Your data will change almost instantaneously if you're measuring it and monitoring it. So mostly when it comes to these things, these are coming from neurologists, people with severe migraines.
This is generally the application. This is not something that we often think about as somebody who's like trying to make their HRV score better today. So don't swing a sledgehammer at a fly, if you know what I mean. But these things aren't out there. Hopefully that gives you a sense of a bunch of different tools and strategies. I intentionally picked things all over the map.
This is generally the application. This is not something that we often think about as somebody who's like trying to make their HRV score better today. So don't swing a sledgehammer at a fly, if you know what I mean. But these things aren't out there. Hopefully that gives you a sense of a bunch of different tools and strategies. I intentionally picked things all over the map.
Cold water to a breathing drill to technology from free to a little bit more expensive and a whole bunch of other things in between that can shift or improve that state instantaneously. We're going to transition now and finish up by talking about some of the things that will actually make improvements chronically.
Cold water to a breathing drill to technology from free to a little bit more expensive and a whole bunch of other things in between that can shift or improve that state instantaneously. We're going to transition now and finish up by talking about some of the things that will actually make improvements chronically.
So let's get you out of that hole and let's make you a more permanent, more resilient nervous system. Remember our goal. We want to desensitize. We want that system running in the background and for us to have the ability to have some control over it when we want.
So let's get you out of that hole and let's make you a more permanent, more resilient nervous system. Remember our goal. We want to desensitize. We want that system running in the background and for us to have the ability to have some control over it when we want.
If you think about basic desensitization, the exact same principles apply here, which means you can already intuit a lot of the solutions. I'll give you some, again, what the science shows us, what we've experienced, but there's obviously many, many more things or an unending list of stuff you could try. Think about this from the perspective of the immune system.
If you think about basic desensitization, the exact same principles apply here, which means you can already intuit a lot of the solutions. I'll give you some, again, what the science shows us, what we've experienced, but there's obviously many, many more things or an unending list of stuff you could try. Think about this from the perspective of the immune system.
Now, I'll tell you a personal story. My daughter has an incredibly severe allergy to cashews. We put her through a treatment, it took us about 18 months, and she now eats cashews every day. We were in a position for, when she was younger, to have to carry an EpiPen with us. If there was cashew dust in the air, there's a non-zero chance that she could die. It was that severe.
Now, I'll tell you a personal story. My daughter has an incredibly severe allergy to cashews. We put her through a treatment, it took us about 18 months, and she now eats cashews every day. We were in a position for, when she was younger, to have to carry an EpiPen with us. If there was cashew dust in the air, there's a non-zero chance that she could die. It was that severe.
How did that program work? Basic desensitization. You give them a very, very, very small load. Don't put anything else in the system that could irritate them. As time goes on, you give them a slightly higher amount of load until she got up to eating, again, multiple cashews a day.
How did that program work? Basic desensitization. You give them a very, very, very small load. Don't put anything else in the system that could irritate them. As time goes on, you give them a slightly higher amount of load until she got up to eating, again, multiple cashews a day.
If you look at a totally different system, another personal experience I had many years ago, I had an athlete who was struggling a lot with low back pain. I called a colleague of mine, a physical therapist, Dr. Quinn Hennock.
If you look at a totally different system, another personal experience I had many years ago, I had an athlete who was struggling a lot with low back pain. I called a colleague of mine, a physical therapist, Dr. Quinn Hennock.
Quinn was fantastic and he basically said, hey, you're dealing with low back pain, take her all the way up to the point of low back pain, go right below that line and then train a bunch. Don't hurt her. Don't exaggerate it, right? Don't give my daughter a bunch of cashews and cause a huge reaction that makes the system worse, more sensitive, right? It's on high alert. No, no, no.
Quinn was fantastic and he basically said, hey, you're dealing with low back pain, take her all the way up to the point of low back pain, go right below that line and then train a bunch. Don't hurt her. Don't exaggerate it, right? Don't give my daughter a bunch of cashews and cause a huge reaction that makes the system worse, more sensitive, right? It's on high alert. No, no, no.
Small doses and then build those doses up and desensitize the back pain. Worked perfectly well. The athlete has, it's been years that athlete not had back pain, chronic low back pain ever since. Completely different. And again, I'm showing you wildly different examples here because I want you to understand, in my opinion, this is a ubiquitous physiological thing.
Small doses and then build those doses up and desensitize the back pain. Worked perfectly well. The athlete has, it's been years that athlete not had back pain, chronic low back pain ever since. Completely different. And again, I'm showing you wildly different examples here because I want you to understand, in my opinion, this is a ubiquitous physiological thing.
This is not specific to HRV, specific to the nervous system. It seems to be just a renowned physiological principle. So it carries a ton of weight. This looks a lot of different ways. I'm just going to give you some samples. The research is going to show you Most of the time, practices in this area, you're going to start to see changes in three to four weeks.
This is not specific to HRV, specific to the nervous system. It seems to be just a renowned physiological principle. So it carries a ton of weight. This looks a lot of different ways. I'm just going to give you some samples. The research is going to show you Most of the time, practices in this area, you're going to start to see changes in three to four weeks.
You should feel noticeable changes, but it won't be a week. It won't be a day. Three to four weeks seems to be the number. The biggest impact seems to come around the six to eight week mark. consistently dosing for that long. Past eight weeks, you don't see as much continued progress.
You should feel noticeable changes, but it won't be a week. It won't be a day. Three to four weeks seems to be the number. The biggest impact seems to come around the six to eight week mark. consistently dosing for that long. Past eight weeks, you don't see as much continued progress.
And so what oftentimes happens is you can, whatever you're doing, you can kind of back it down from doing it once or twice every day to maybe two or three times a week. So you're kind of at a maintenance dosage from there. That's what my daughter is with her cashews. She has a little bit of cashews a couple of times a week, and that keeps her immune system totally at bay.
And so what oftentimes happens is you can, whatever you're doing, you can kind of back it down from doing it once or twice every day to maybe two or three times a week. So you're kind of at a maintenance dosage from there. That's what my daughter is with her cashews. She has a little bit of cashews a couple of times a week, and that keeps her immune system totally at bay.
As far as we understand it, if we were to do that, pull the cashews away for a couple of months, she might actually regress all the way back to the beginning. Again, some analogy that helps out there. If you were to think about this from a growing muscle perspective, nobody in their right mind would go do one workout and then go to bed that night and go, my biceps aren't any bigger.
As far as we understand it, if we were to do that, pull the cashews away for a couple of months, she might actually regress all the way back to the beginning. Again, some analogy that helps out there. If you were to think about this from a growing muscle perspective, nobody in their right mind would go do one workout and then go to bed that night and go, my biceps aren't any bigger.
This stuff sucks. It doesn't work. Strength training is a joke. It's fake. Woke up the next day, my arms aren't any bigger. Like you just know that doesn't work, right? But yet we expect the same thing to happen when we do breath work. Ah, I've been doing it for two days. Nothing happened. My HRV score is the same. Sure, of course it is. This is a system approach. This is a desensitization.
This stuff sucks. It doesn't work. Strength training is a joke. It's fake. Woke up the next day, my arms aren't any bigger. Like you just know that doesn't work, right? But yet we expect the same thing to happen when we do breath work. Ah, I've been doing it for two days. Nothing happened. My HRV score is the same. Sure, of course it is. This is a system approach. This is a desensitization.
You're reframing, you're building a new road here. It's going to take several weeks. That's where the benefit comes. If you feel better right now when you do it, great. That was an acute thing. But we're trying to get to chronic changes, right? So we want to be active now so that it can be passive later. What that means is during these first four to eight weeks, it's work. It's a lot.
You're reframing, you're building a new road here. It's going to take several weeks. That's where the benefit comes. If you feel better right now when you do it, great. That was an acute thing. But we're trying to get to chronic changes, right? So we want to be active now so that it can be passive later. What that means is during these first four to eight weeks, it's work. It's a lot.
You're going to have to dedicate 10 to 15 minutes a day of doing something that you're not going to necessarily feel that much better in doing. But if you do this appropriately, we reset this baseline, then you can be on to maintenance dosage and not have to actively do this so much. So there's a bunch of examples for you. I'm going to go through a handful right now.
You're going to have to dedicate 10 to 15 minutes a day of doing something that you're not going to necessarily feel that much better in doing. But if you do this appropriately, we reset this baseline, then you can be on to maintenance dosage and not have to actively do this so much. So there's a bunch of examples for you. I'm going to go through a handful right now.
And again, I've intentionally tried to choose these from a wide variety of activities. So let's dive into them. Very first one we're going to start with is exercise. You know about the hormetic stressor effects of exercise, right? You break it down to build it up. Not exactly what happens, but... That's what hormesis is, right? Small insult, come back better. We saw this with cold.
And again, I've intentionally tried to choose these from a wide variety of activities. So let's dive into them. Very first one we're going to start with is exercise. You know about the hormetic stressor effects of exercise, right? You break it down to build it up. Not exactly what happens, but... That's what hormesis is, right? Small insult, come back better. We saw this with cold.
You get really, really cold, you dive into sympathetic drive, which then has this compensatory response into parasympathetic. Same thing here, same thing else. You can look across the research. I've got some papers specifically I pulled up that'll be in the show notes. Strength training, low intensity cardiovascular training, high intensity intervals, all of it works.
You get really, really cold, you dive into sympathetic drive, which then has this compensatory response into parasympathetic. Same thing here, same thing else. You can look across the research. I've got some papers specifically I pulled up that'll be in the show notes. Strength training, low intensity cardiovascular training, high intensity intervals, all of it works.
If you want to directly compare them, looks like high intensity interval training seems to be the best for this specific marker. Same time, if you're doing max effort high intensity intervals every single day, you're going to run into a hole. You're going to run into a wall and it's going to go down eventually. So dose appropriately. We use a little bit of all of it.
If you want to directly compare them, looks like high intensity interval training seems to be the best for this specific marker. Same time, if you're doing max effort high intensity intervals every single day, you're going to run into a hole. You're going to run into a wall and it's going to go down eventually. So dose appropriately. We use a little bit of all of it.
If we feel like somebody is doing way too much high intensity work, we will pull it back and HRV will improve. Respiratory rate will come down. Resting heart rate will come down. I've seen that more times than I can count.
If we feel like somebody is doing way too much high intensity work, we will pull it back and HRV will improve. Respiratory rate will come down. Resting heart rate will come down. I've seen that more times than I can count.
That said, if you're not exercising at all, or you're exercising a little bit or moderate amount, or you don't go that high of intensity very often, we will see the same positive responses by adding high intensity training, whether that's higher intensity strength training, higher intensity interval training, or cardiovascular training. Same thing.
That said, if you're not exercising at all, or you're exercising a little bit or moderate amount, or you don't go that high of intensity very often, we will see the same positive responses by adding high intensity training, whether that's higher intensity strength training, higher intensity interval training, or cardiovascular training. Same thing.
So this is just about the right dose for the right overall experience. Totally dependent upon your lifestyle and sleep and nutrition and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So not a one size fits all answer here, but pay attention to those things. So overall exercise wins. And this has been, again, documented so many times, I can't even count. Next one on that stop is breath work.
So this is just about the right dose for the right overall experience. Totally dependent upon your lifestyle and sleep and nutrition and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So not a one size fits all answer here, but pay attention to those things. So overall exercise wins. And this has been, again, documented so many times, I can't even count. Next one on that stop is breath work.
Remember earlier, when you exercise more CO2, so you breathe more, So when you start thinking about it, what is structured breath work doing? It's kind of like manipulating a little bit of a lower level amount of exercise. It makes sense. The same physiology happens. The same basic benefits. It's really consistent. The framework we use to think about it is in three basic steps.
Remember earlier, when you exercise more CO2, so you breathe more, So when you start thinking about it, what is structured breath work doing? It's kind of like manipulating a little bit of a lower level amount of exercise. It makes sense. The same physiology happens. The same basic benefits. It's really consistent. The framework we use to think about it is in three basic steps.
If we're going to implement a specific breathing protocol for somebody, here's how we do it. Again, for these particular purposes. Number one, Before we actually put somebody on a breathing program, we reduce arousal. I said this a while ago now. But this is actually step number one.
If we're going to implement a specific breathing protocol for somebody, here's how we do it. Again, for these particular purposes. Number one, Before we actually put somebody on a breathing program, we reduce arousal. I said this a while ago now. But this is actually step number one.
Before you have to go through this meditation or intentional breathwork protocol, we just got to reduce the sensory input. We have seen this a lot. Go for a walk in nature. No podcast. No music. Not as much time. You can't wake up in the morning, immediately go to your heavy metal music, work for 15 hours, come home, answer emails, and then fall asleep. You can because you burn a lot of energy.
Before you have to go through this meditation or intentional breathwork protocol, we just got to reduce the sensory input. We have seen this a lot. Go for a walk in nature. No podcast. No music. Not as much time. You can't wake up in the morning, immediately go to your heavy metal music, work for 15 hours, come home, answer emails, and then fall asleep. You can because you burn a lot of energy.
You're going to be tired, but that's going to keep you in a pretty high state of arousal. So I'm telling you right now, if you want to do breath work, you're into it, cool. We've had a lot of people who just don't like it. I'd be totally candid with you. I'm not the biggest fan myself personally. Always feels good, always works, but it's not like on my high list of things I enjoy doing every day.
You're going to be tired, but that's going to keep you in a pretty high state of arousal. So I'm telling you right now, if you want to do breath work, you're into it, cool. We've had a lot of people who just don't like it. I'd be totally candid with you. I'm not the biggest fan myself personally. Always feels good, always works, but it's not like on my high list of things I enjoy doing every day.
And so I would rather just be like, man, I need some recovery. It's easier for me to just reduce physical arousal. Give me some more quiet time. No more sensory input for the day. That'll take care of most of it. If that's not enough, the next step we go to is more time doing nasal only breathing. Close your mouth, breathe through your nose.
And so I would rather just be like, man, I need some recovery. It's easier for me to just reduce physical arousal. Give me some more quiet time. No more sensory input for the day. That'll take care of most of it. If that's not enough, the next step we go to is more time doing nasal only breathing. Close your mouth, breathe through your nose.
Whether this means you tape your mouth closed while you're working, or you go for a walk and you're breathing only through your nose, or you're doing some or all or any portion of your exercise with nasal only breathing, I don't really care. It activates the diaphragm more. It tends to on itself slow respiratory rate down because you can't move air like you can.
Whether this means you tape your mouth closed while you're working, or you go for a walk and you're breathing only through your nose, or you're doing some or all or any portion of your exercise with nasal only breathing, I don't really care. It activates the diaphragm more. It tends to on itself slow respiratory rate down because you can't move air like you can.
You will notice hyperventilation through your nose when you won't necessarily notice hyperventilation through your mouth. You'll feel that, you'll hear that. That would be very different than it coming through your mouth. And we also know that nasal breathing is more parasympathetic on itself.
You will notice hyperventilation through your nose when you won't necessarily notice hyperventilation through your mouth. You'll feel that, you'll hear that. That would be very different than it coming through your mouth. And we also know that nasal breathing is more parasympathetic on itself.
So by doing that, reducing arousal, and then forcing people into some nasal-only breathing time, this basically takes care of all of our problems. If you like or want to still need to do more things past that, at that point, we will instill a specific breathwork protocol and it could look a bunch of different ways. But again, here are some samples.
So by doing that, reducing arousal, and then forcing people into some nasal-only breathing time, this basically takes care of all of our problems. If you like or want to still need to do more things past that, at that point, we will instill a specific breathwork protocol and it could look a bunch of different ways. But again, here are some samples.
Intuitively here, just make your breath do what you want to feel like. What's that mean? Let's say you're trying to go up more energy. You're feeling lethargic or lack of motivation and you're down. and you're not breathing very much, and everything, heart rate's low, and energy's low. Think about it. What would your breath look like if you were at a high energy state? And then do that.
Intuitively here, just make your breath do what you want to feel like. What's that mean? Let's say you're trying to go up more energy. You're feeling lethargic or lack of motivation and you're down. and you're not breathing very much, and everything, heart rate's low, and energy's low. Think about it. What would your breath look like if you were at a high energy state? And then do that.
Force your breath to do something, and as I talked about earlier, your physiology will respond to match it. This is hyperventilation. Breathe more. Any of you who have ever done hyperventilation breath work, you'll know within a few seconds, tingling in your arms, you might start sweating, temperature goes up really acutely. So just do that. Just hyperventilate.
Force your breath to do something, and as I talked about earlier, your physiology will respond to match it. This is hyperventilation. Breathe more. Any of you who have ever done hyperventilation breath work, you'll know within a few seconds, tingling in your arms, you might start sweating, temperature goes up really acutely. So just do that. Just hyperventilate.
If you're in the opposite and you're trying to come down, just don't breathe as much. Tons of protocols. Yeah. Extended exhales. Sure, sure, sure, sure. But the basic concept is slow your breath work down. That's as complicated as it has to be. If you want individual protocols, cool, fine, got it. But that is the top line strategy here.
If you're in the opposite and you're trying to come down, just don't breathe as much. Tons of protocols. Yeah. Extended exhales. Sure, sure, sure, sure. But the basic concept is slow your breath work down. That's as complicated as it has to be. If you want individual protocols, cool, fine, got it. But that is the top line strategy here.
Most other research and most practitioners who are effective at this are going to use a combination within one protocol. So you're going to do not just only extended exhales. Not just slowing your breath rate down, not just speeding it up, but you're going to use a combination to develop that hormetic stressor. So if you want to truly downregulate, you can just simply slow your breathing down.
Most other research and most practitioners who are effective at this are going to use a combination within one protocol. So you're going to do not just only extended exhales. Not just slowing your breath rate down, not just speeding it up, but you're going to use a combination to develop that hormetic stressor. So if you want to truly downregulate, you can just simply slow your breathing down.
But actually within one session, a combination of slower and faster and slower and faster will lead to that hormetic response. And if you finish, especially on low, it's been our experience and the research would support this, you're going to oftentimes see more of a parasympathetic response than if you were to just do parasympathetic alone.
But actually within one session, a combination of slower and faster and slower and faster will lead to that hormetic response. And if you finish, especially on low, it's been our experience and the research would support this, you're going to oftentimes see more of a parasympathetic response than if you were to just do parasympathetic alone.
So most of the time we're looking for a combination of up and down for the same reasons that we talked about with exercise, in other words. Conflicts of interest here. I am a board member, no pay here for a nonprofit, called the Health and Human Performance Foundation. I've been a part of this group for many years. I was one of the founding members.
So most of the time we're looking for a combination of up and down for the same reasons that we talked about with exercise, in other words. Conflicts of interest here. I am a board member, no pay here for a nonprofit, called the Health and Human Performance Foundation. I've been a part of this group for many years. I was one of the founding members.
I'm bringing that up because that group, led by Tanya Bentley, recently published a phenomenal review article. We'll link it in the show notes. But I want to share with you what they found. They were looking directly at the relationship between breathwork for stress and anxiety. What do we know?
I'm bringing that up because that group, led by Tanya Bentley, recently published a phenomenal review article. We'll link it in the show notes. But I want to share with you what they found. They were looking directly at the relationship between breathwork for stress and anxiety. What do we know?
In that review, they found, I think, 72 papers and something like 75 or 80% of the papers found that the breathwork helped. So just on a surface, if we want to say like, does breathwork actually help for anxiety and stress? I think pretty clearly the vast majority of the time it does.
In that review, they found, I think, 72 papers and something like 75 or 80% of the papers found that the breathwork helped. So just on a surface, if we want to say like, does breathwork actually help for anxiety and stress? I think pretty clearly the vast majority of the time it does.
But what was really interesting that Tanya did there is she started breaking down the papers and saying, well, what was true among the papers that worked? And what was true among the papers that didn't? And can we glean anything from that? And the answer was yes. So here we go.
But what was really interesting that Tanya did there is she started breaking down the papers and saying, well, what was true among the papers that worked? And what was true among the papers that didn't? And can we glean anything from that? And the answer was yes. So here we go.
There were a handful of things, in fact, five things specifically that were common among all those papers that showed it worked. And here they are. Number one, they avoided fast only breathing practices. I know these are very popular. People love the max inhalation, exhalation stuff. They like hyperventilation breathing.
There were a handful of things, in fact, five things specifically that were common among all those papers that showed it worked. And here they are. Number one, they avoided fast only breathing practices. I know these are very popular. People love the max inhalation, exhalation stuff. They like hyperventilation breathing.
If your goal is to try to reduce stress and anxiety chronically, pretty clear evidence at this point, that alone will not do it. Doesn't mean you can't hyperventilate. Doesn't mean it can't be part of your practice. But if your only practice is chronic hyperventilate or consistent hyperventilation, probably not going to be effective for reducing your stress and anxiety long-term.
If your goal is to try to reduce stress and anxiety chronically, pretty clear evidence at this point, that alone will not do it. Doesn't mean you can't hyperventilate. Doesn't mean it can't be part of your practice. But if your only practice is chronic hyperventilate or consistent hyperventilation, probably not going to be effective for reducing your stress and anxiety long-term.
Number two, the breath practice needs to be longer than five minutes. Number three, generally needs to be human guided. So people that do it by themselves, initially, probably not the best strategy. Whether you're physically in a room with somebody, that doesn't seem to matter. But you need to have somebody coaching you through something at some point, especially initially. Number four,
Number two, the breath practice needs to be longer than five minutes. Number three, generally needs to be human guided. So people that do it by themselves, initially, probably not the best strategy. Whether you're physically in a room with somebody, that doesn't seem to matter. But you need to have somebody coaching you through something at some point, especially initially. Number four,
It takes multiple sessions per week. You can't do this once in a while. You can do it and feel that acute effect, but it won't have that carry over chronic benefit. Number five, there need to be a little bit more of longer term practices. This is that four to six to eight week thing.
It takes multiple sessions per week. You can't do this once in a while. You can do it and feel that acute effect, but it won't have that carry over chronic benefit. Number five, there need to be a little bit more of longer term practices. This is that four to six to eight week thing.
So if we were to recap that, if you're using non-exclusively hyperventilation, you're doing it more than five minutes, ideally multiple times per day, someone that knows what they're doing has designed it, and you're giving yourself four to five, six weeks, you got about a 70 to 80% chance that it will meaningfully and clinically improve your anxiety and your stress.
So if we were to recap that, if you're using non-exclusively hyperventilation, you're doing it more than five minutes, ideally multiple times per day, someone that knows what they're doing has designed it, and you're giving yourself four to five, six weeks, you got about a 70 to 80% chance that it will meaningfully and clinically improve your anxiety and your stress.
That's some framework for breath protocols. Should work. Most of that will take care of HRV, CO2 tolerance, resting heart rates, and respiratory rate. The next big category I want to talk about are what are called biofeedback mechanisms. There's a lot of things here, tons of research. I've actually been tinkering with this stuff for probably 15 years or so at this point.
That's some framework for breath protocols. Should work. Most of that will take care of HRV, CO2 tolerance, resting heart rates, and respiratory rate. The next big category I want to talk about are what are called biofeedback mechanisms. There's a lot of things here, tons of research. I've actually been tinkering with this stuff for probably 15 years or so at this point.
I want to categorize them for today's conversation into two main areas. One, what I'll call internal, and the other that are called external. So the internal ones are when you're trying to have that interoception. You're trying to pay attention to your heart rate. And I'm intentionally telling you to slow your breathing down. So that's an internal focus.
I want to categorize them for today's conversation into two main areas. One, what I'll call internal, and the other that are called external. So the internal ones are when you're trying to have that interoception. You're trying to pay attention to your heart rate. And I'm intentionally telling you to slow your breathing down. So that's an internal focus.
External is when you're actually watching your physiology on some screen and you're just trying to make that thing improve. So I'm not telling you how to do it. I'm telling you what I want the response to be. And you're using that direct visual feedback to make alterations. Both are great. They're a little bit different. And there's a lot of tools within them.
External is when you're actually watching your physiology on some screen and you're just trying to make that thing improve. So I'm not telling you how to do it. I'm telling you what I want the response to be. And you're using that direct visual feedback to make alterations. Both are great. They're a little bit different. And there's a lot of tools within them.
So getting a starter with a handful that I'll call internals. And these ones are free or close to it. The very first one is any sort of hypoxic exposure. I've talked about that earlier. Hold your breath. The Valsalva maneuver. Anything like that. This will give you an acute change and I'll absolutely reset you. It will change your subjective feeling by simply holding your breath.
So getting a starter with a handful that I'll call internals. And these ones are free or close to it. The very first one is any sort of hypoxic exposure. I've talked about that earlier. Hold your breath. The Valsalva maneuver. Anything like that. This will give you an acute change and I'll absolutely reset you. It will change your subjective feeling by simply holding your breath.
If you want to cue that to some physical exercise, like the Valsalva, or you want to do jumping jacks or pushups or something, you'd be surprised. But a very short burst of holding your breath combined with physical activity for a couple of seconds can change perception pretty immediately. And I'm calling this biofeedback because you're going to feel it. You're going to do it.
If you want to cue that to some physical exercise, like the Valsalva, or you want to do jumping jacks or pushups or something, you'd be surprised. But a very short burst of holding your breath combined with physical activity for a couple of seconds can change perception pretty immediately. And I'm calling this biofeedback because you're going to feel it. You're going to do it.
I'm telling you to do something to your body. Ones that are more chronic though, which is what we're trying to get into now, is a cascade of them. One that we've used a lot is actually a meditation app, if you will, called Waking Up. This is by Sam Harris. There are plenty of ways to learn meditation. There are many different strategies for it.
I'm telling you to do something to your body. Ones that are more chronic though, which is what we're trying to get into now, is a cascade of them. One that we've used a lot is actually a meditation app, if you will, called Waking Up. This is by Sam Harris. There are plenty of ways to learn meditation. There are many different strategies for it.
But I'm highlighting this one because we've used it a lot, as well as because it is a progressive system. So you can kind of take it, follow the course. And if you don't know anything about meditation, the lessons are pretty simple and small. And it kind of walks you through it. I've personally been paying for Waking Up for many years. We've given it to lots of clients plenty of times.
But I'm highlighting this one because we've used it a lot, as well as because it is a progressive system. So you can kind of take it, follow the course. And if you don't know anything about meditation, the lessons are pretty simple and small. And it kind of walks you through it. I've personally been paying for Waking Up for many years. We've given it to lots of clients plenty of times.
But I've only recently learned you can try it for free for 30 days by going to wakingup.com slash Huberman. That's my friend, Dr. Andrew Huberman's sponsor to his podcast over there. So you can try it all there. And I hope you enjoy it. It's truly phenomenal. We've used it a lot.
But I've only recently learned you can try it for free for 30 days by going to wakingup.com slash Huberman. That's my friend, Dr. Andrew Huberman's sponsor to his podcast over there. So you can try it all there. And I hope you enjoy it. It's truly phenomenal. We've used it a lot.
And why, again, I'm saying that is we maybe sometimes someone's done breath work or they won't do breath work or whatever. They're not interested in meditation. We can just send them that and say, hey, this is the only thing we're going to ask you to do. And they can kind of get hooked on a little bit. They can gamify it.
And why, again, I'm saying that is we maybe sometimes someone's done breath work or they won't do breath work or whatever. They're not interested in meditation. We can just send them that and say, hey, this is the only thing we're going to ask you to do. And they can kind of get hooked on a little bit. They can gamify it.
They can get there just focusing on paying attention to their breath, which is effectively what Sam is doing in that course. It's biofeedback. They have no connection with their breath. They don't understand what's going on. They're learning to connect to their breath and it makes a big difference. That's why that's in biofeedback. Another super simple one is what
They can get there just focusing on paying attention to their breath, which is effectively what Sam is doing in that course. It's biofeedback. They have no connection with their breath. They don't understand what's going on. They're learning to connect to their breath and it makes a big difference. That's why that's in biofeedback. Another super simple one is what
Brian McKenzie calls gear one walking. So you're going to walk 30 minutes, 45 minutes. We have one client who we have walking almost two hours a day like this. And why we're calling it biofeedback here is you're breathing through your nose, but you're breathing at a very specific and intentional breath rate. Two second inhale, two second exhale. That's a four second rhythm.
Brian McKenzie calls gear one walking. So you're going to walk 30 minutes, 45 minutes. We have one client who we have walking almost two hours a day like this. And why we're calling it biofeedback here is you're breathing through your nose, but you're breathing at a very specific and intentional breath rate. Two second inhale, two second exhale. That's a four second rhythm.
What that matters is four multiplied by 15 is 60. That's 15 breaths per minute, right? As I said earlier, 15 is kind of that respiratory line where we start to be concerned. If you're sleeping and you're breathing 15 breaths per minute, we think that's a little bit high. But if you're walking, 15 breaths per minute is appropriate.
What that matters is four multiplied by 15 is 60. That's 15 breaths per minute, right? As I said earlier, 15 is kind of that respiratory line where we start to be concerned. If you're sleeping and you're breathing 15 breaths per minute, we think that's a little bit high. But if you're walking, 15 breaths per minute is appropriate.
So in doing this, what we're trying to do is match an appropriate breath rate with an appropriate caloric expenditure. We're not having you do sprints or you're running where your heart rate's really, really high and you're under breathing. We're trying to retrain your baseline of saying, this is what 15 should feel like.
So in doing this, what we're trying to do is match an appropriate breath rate with an appropriate caloric expenditure. We're not having you do sprints or you're running where your heart rate's really, really high and you're under breathing. We're trying to retrain your baseline of saying, this is what 15 should feel like.
Now, when you go back and sleep, bring it down to 10 or 12 or whatever the case is. So it's a very intentional two in, two out. It feels very, very weird. It's nasal only. You can't listen to a podcast. You can't take work emails when you're this. You have to be in that space and you got to spend some time there, but it is quite effective. Third one here we'll talk about is the cold exposure.
Now, when you go back and sleep, bring it down to 10 or 12 or whatever the case is. So it's a very intentional two in, two out. It feels very, very weird. It's nasal only. You can't listen to a podcast. You can't take work emails when you're this. You have to be in that space and you got to spend some time there, but it is quite effective. Third one here we'll talk about is the cold exposure.
Now, what I didn't say earlier is how you can use cold exposure for biofeedback and retraining things like respiratory rate. Common one we have used many, many times. Get in your cold, whether this is your shower or your bath or whatever you're doing. I'll give you the first, say, one to three breath cycles to kind of calm yourself down.
Now, what I didn't say earlier is how you can use cold exposure for biofeedback and retraining things like respiratory rate. Common one we have used many, many times. Get in your cold, whether this is your shower or your bath or whatever you're doing. I'll give you the first, say, one to three breath cycles to kind of calm yourself down.
And then past that, we're not sitting in here for a particular amount of time. What we're trying to do is take 10 breaths under control. We are using the cold to regulate breath. We are learning resilience. I put you in a very physiological and psychological stressful situation. Your hormones, your adrenaline, your heart rate will be flying up.
And then past that, we're not sitting in here for a particular amount of time. What we're trying to do is take 10 breaths under control. We are using the cold to regulate breath. We are learning resilience. I put you in a very physiological and psychological stressful situation. Your hormones, your adrenaline, your heart rate will be flying up.
And I'm asking you to control them despite the fact that they are wanting to go up. That is exactly how you build stress inoculation. That's walking you up to that line of low back pain, but not pushing you over the edge. You're not scared. You can get out anytime. There's no danger here. But your body will be screaming at you that this is a, all those things. But you know it's not.
And I'm asking you to control them despite the fact that they are wanting to go up. That is exactly how you build stress inoculation. That's walking you up to that line of low back pain, but not pushing you over the edge. You're not scared. You can get out anytime. There's no danger here. But your body will be screaming at you that this is a, all those things. But you know it's not.
You might panic, you might do a bunch of different things. Fine, get out, no problem. That's the game we're practicing. Just like Dr. Harris in waking up, the practice is not how much focus you can have on your breath. The practice is when you lose focus, can you bring it back? Same thing here. We're using the cold to intentionally put you out of control.
You might panic, you might do a bunch of different things. Fine, get out, no problem. That's the game we're practicing. Just like Dr. Harris in waking up, the practice is not how much focus you can have on your breath. The practice is when you lose focus, can you bring it back? Same thing here. We're using the cold to intentionally put you out of control.
And then we're saying, can you practice regaining control? That's all we're doing. Now, the things I just mentioned, I call biofeedback, but they're not the true scientific definition of that. What we're really getting into this field is stuff more specific to HRV-based biofeedbacks, and so we'll cover those things right now. A couple of examples.
And then we're saying, can you practice regaining control? That's all we're doing. Now, the things I just mentioned, I call biofeedback, but they're not the true scientific definition of that. What we're really getting into this field is stuff more specific to HRV-based biofeedbacks, and so we'll cover those things right now. A couple of examples.
Many years ago, I had a colleague who was actually a sports psychologist who used biofeedback this way. He would put athletes in front of a computer screen, and he would have an electrode attached to their ear that was measuring things in a pulse oximeter. And they would look at a screen, and it was, say, a picture of a landscape or maybe kids playing at a park. and it was all in black and white.
Many years ago, I had a colleague who was actually a sports psychologist who used biofeedback this way. He would put athletes in front of a computer screen, and he would have an electrode attached to their ear that was measuring things in a pulse oximeter. And they would look at a screen, and it was, say, a picture of a landscape or maybe kids playing at a park. and it was all in black and white.
And he would not tell them anything, but he would simply say, make that picture turn into color. And they're staring at a screen, they're like, what? And then all of a sudden, the screen would start filling in color. And then it would go away, back to black and white. And it would take people a while, but once they realized, oh wow, when I bring my heart rate down, I get more colors on the screen.
And he would not tell them anything, but he would simply say, make that picture turn into color. And they're staring at a screen, they're like, what? And then all of a sudden, the screen would start filling in color. And then it would go away, back to black and white. And it would take people a while, but once they realized, oh wow, when I bring my heart rate down, I get more colors on the screen.
And so they would bring their heart rate down and the colors would start filling in, then they would get excited, and then the colors would go away. And so they're not paying attention. He's not telling them, bring your heart rate down, stop breathing as much, exhale, extended exhales. He's asking for an external solution and they are figuring out internally how to get there. Awesome, awesome.
And so they would bring their heart rate down and the colors would start filling in, then they would get excited, and then the colors would go away. And so they're not paying attention. He's not telling them, bring your heart rate down, stop breathing as much, exhale, extended exhales. He's asking for an external solution and they are figuring out internally how to get there. Awesome, awesome.
And then there's lots of different tools and technologies for that, but an awesome way of developing biofeedback that way. Really simple examples of stuff we've used for many years are things like a weight belt. They had 20 bucks on Amazon. You put this strap around your stomach and you can actually see increased proprioception in your core muscles. Lots of research on this.
And then there's lots of different tools and technologies for that, but an awesome way of developing biofeedback that way. Really simple examples of stuff we've used for many years are things like a weight belt. They had 20 bucks on Amazon. You put this strap around your stomach and you can actually see increased proprioception in your core muscles. Lots of research on this.
If you take a weight belt and you cinch it down really, really tight and you go to lift your weights, there's been many studies show a reduction in core strength in response to that. You make it so tight, think of it this way, the core muscles turn off. They don't have to do their work because the belt's doing it.
If you take a weight belt and you cinch it down really, really tight and you go to lift your weights, there's been many studies show a reduction in core strength in response to that. You make it so tight, think of it this way, the core muscles turn off. They don't have to do their work because the belt's doing it.
That said, if you put the belt on just kind of a little bit, you can see increases in core strength. Why? Because it gives you a little bit of a tactile feedback. You know that you're not pressing hard with your core. You know you're not activating it in all spots because you can feel the belt pressing back up against it when you're contracting hard.
That said, if you put the belt on just kind of a little bit, you can see increases in core strength. Why? Because it gives you a little bit of a tactile feedback. You know that you're not pressing hard with your core. You know you're not activating it in all spots because you can feel the belt pressing back up against it when you're contracting hard.
So because of that, it gives somebody a biofeedback reminder, a tactile feedback, keep your core engaged, keep your core engaged. And so by keeping it engaged more often, you get more of a training effect. Same exact principle can be applied here. You can put people through a specific breath protocol, or you can put a weight belt on them. Put a bigger one.
So because of that, it gives somebody a biofeedback reminder, a tactile feedback, keep your core engaged, keep your core engaged. And so by keeping it engaged more often, you get more of a training effect. Same exact principle can be applied here. You can put people through a specific breath protocol, or you can put a weight belt on them. Put a bigger one.
A lot of the ones we'll use are like fat-burning stomach belts, you know, the ones you put on, you're like plastic on them, and they're there to help people think they're going to have a six-pack. But what it's just doing is giving you that feedback. You don't necessarily have to give them a program. You can just say, hey, wear this for 20 minutes. Wear this for a couple of hours.
A lot of the ones we'll use are like fat-burning stomach belts, you know, the ones you put on, you're like plastic on them, and they're there to help people think they're going to have a six-pack. But what it's just doing is giving you that feedback. You don't necessarily have to give them a program. You can just say, hey, wear this for 20 minutes. Wear this for a couple of hours.
You'll start to feel, man, I'm not breathing through my core. I'm breathing through my shoulders. I'm breathing through my neck. So number one, we're starting to make improvement and progress in breathing mechanics. It also generally tends to slow people's breath rate down because you feel, you'll hear that belt crunching and moving and going back and forth.
You'll start to feel, man, I'm not breathing through my core. I'm breathing through my shoulders. I'm breathing through my neck. So number one, we're starting to make improvement and progress in breathing mechanics. It also generally tends to slow people's breath rate down because you feel, you'll hear that belt crunching and moving and going back and forth.
And you're like, geez, that's happened a lot. And you tend to just slow it down. Simple biofeedback, easy solutions, no complicated schemes at all, very effective. For those of you that want more structure and specific protocols to follow, this last one will get you really excited. There's a whole bunch of research on what's called resonant breathing. This is HRV biofeedback resonance.
And you're like, geez, that's happened a lot. And you tend to just slow it down. Simple biofeedback, easy solutions, no complicated schemes at all, very effective. For those of you that want more structure and specific protocols to follow, this last one will get you really excited. There's a whole bunch of research on what's called resonant breathing. This is HRV biofeedback resonance.
There's lots of different terms for it, but if you Google that phrase, this is what will come up. Same goal, trying to give you more ability to recognize and control your HRV. Recent meta-analysis found very positive benefits for self-reported stress and anxiety. Other papers have looked at this and found positive benefits for cognitive function and depression.
There's lots of different terms for it, but if you Google that phrase, this is what will come up. Same goal, trying to give you more ability to recognize and control your HRV. Recent meta-analysis found very positive benefits for self-reported stress and anxiety. Other papers have looked at this and found positive benefits for cognitive function and depression.
It has the same basic prescription of the other breathwork. You probably got to do it for about 20 minutes per day. It takes four or five weeks, ideally morning and night, morning and night rather. And so that stuff is fixed. But what is specific about this? It's really, really clever. A lot of the research here came from a guy named Paul Lehrer, L-E-H-R-E-R, I believe, out of Rutgers.
It has the same basic prescription of the other breathwork. You probably got to do it for about 20 minutes per day. It takes four or five weeks, ideally morning and night, morning and night rather. And so that stuff is fixed. But what is specific about this? It's really, really clever. A lot of the research here came from a guy named Paul Lehrer, L-E-H-R-E-R, I believe, out of Rutgers.
In general, this resonance is supposed to be consistent throughout life. Now, I don't know if more research comes out that that'll change, but that is, as far as we understand it, it seems to be about the same. So this resonance frequency is something internal to you in which your respiratory rate starts to match up with your HRV and your heart rate. You're like, what? Here's what I mean.
In general, this resonance is supposed to be consistent throughout life. Now, I don't know if more research comes out that that'll change, but that is, as far as we understand it, it seems to be about the same. So this resonance frequency is something internal to you in which your respiratory rate starts to match up with your HRV and your heart rate. You're like, what? Here's what I mean.
It's really, really clever stuff. It's just like really fascinating research. I use that Optimal HRV app I told you earlier. It's five bucks a month. The studies oftentimes will use another app called Paste Breathing. That is just simply an app that helps you watch the app and breathe in and out at the right time.
It's really, really clever stuff. It's just like really fascinating research. I use that Optimal HRV app I told you earlier. It's five bucks a month. The studies oftentimes will use another app called Paste Breathing. That is just simply an app that helps you watch the app and breathe in and out at the right time.
All right, so on that Optimal HRV app, you can do this test that I'm about to take you through as well as the training. It's why I like it so much. So I can send people that polar strap, I can send them this app, say, do this resonance test, and then our training program is based upon the results of this particular test. It's telling you how long to inhale and exhale.
All right, so on that Optimal HRV app, you can do this test that I'm about to take you through as well as the training. It's why I like it so much. So I can send people that polar strap, I can send them this app, say, do this resonance test, and then our training program is based upon the results of this particular test. It's telling you how long to inhale and exhale.
Remember earlier where I've said kind of like five in, five out, or six in, six out's a good starting place? That's true. But the individual response to people is different, and this is a phenomenal way to figure out which cadence is best for you. The test takes about 12 minutes. And effectively what happens is you start at a breath rate of about seven breaths per minute.
Remember earlier where I've said kind of like five in, five out, or six in, six out's a good starting place? That's true. But the individual response to people is different, and this is a phenomenal way to figure out which cadence is best for you. The test takes about 12 minutes. And effectively what happens is you start at a breath rate of about seven breaths per minute.
Now, depending on the study you'll find, most will actually start you at about six and a half. I think the optimal HRV, if I remember correctly, starts at six and a half. And then some have gone all the way down to as low as three breaths per minute, but most are gonna start you at like six and a half breaths per minute and drop you to four or so breaths per minute.
Now, depending on the study you'll find, most will actually start you at about six and a half. I think the optimal HRV, if I remember correctly, starts at six and a half. And then some have gone all the way down to as low as three breaths per minute, but most are gonna start you at like six and a half breaths per minute and drop you to four or so breaths per minute.
Here's exactly what I'm talking about. You breathe for two minutes at this specific cadence. Let's say six and a half seconds in, six and a half seconds out. And you do that for a total of two minutes. While you're doing that, it's measuring your HRV. What it's trying to identify is when your HRV gets the highest. So you're breathing in and out at seven, at six and a half breaths per minute.
Here's exactly what I'm talking about. You breathe for two minutes at this specific cadence. Let's say six and a half seconds in, six and a half seconds out. And you do that for a total of two minutes. While you're doing that, it's measuring your HRV. What it's trying to identify is when your HRV gets the highest. So you're breathing in and out at seven, at six and a half breaths per minute.
And then you go from six and a half to six. So every two minutes, you lower your breathing rate by half a breath per minute. Now, for some people, when they go from six and a half to six, their HRV goes down. And some people, it goes up. And then you go from six to five and a half to five, all the way down, like I said, someone's down to three. At some point in that spectrum,
And then you go from six and a half to six. So every two minutes, you lower your breathing rate by half a breath per minute. Now, for some people, when they go from six and a half to six, their HRV goes down. And some people, it goes up. And then you go from six to five and a half to five, all the way down, like I said, someone's down to three. At some point in that spectrum,
your HRV will be its highest. Where that lands is totally dependent upon the person. So let's say we do the test and my optimal HRV happens at six breaths per minute and yours happens at four. That's called our resonance frequency. I now know you will get the highest HRV right now when you breathe at four breaths per minute.
your HRV will be its highest. Where that lands is totally dependent upon the person. So let's say we do the test and my optimal HRV happens at six breaths per minute and yours happens at four. That's called our resonance frequency. I now know you will get the highest HRV right now when you breathe at four breaths per minute.
So then you're going to spend more time breathing at four breaths per minute where I'm going to do six. That makes sense, right? So we're looking at how can I actually optimize my inhalation exhalation strategy to get the highest impact on my HRV? Well, it turns out this strategy is highly effective. I'll go over more of those details here in a moment.
So then you're going to spend more time breathing at four breaths per minute where I'm going to do six. That makes sense, right? So we're looking at how can I actually optimize my inhalation exhalation strategy to get the highest impact on my HRV? Well, it turns out this strategy is highly effective. I'll go over more of those details here in a moment.
But when we're defining high HRV, it's really actually important that the highest HRV score, like you're going to see on your wearables, is not what we're necessarily talking about here. There's three criteria that are used to determine best HRV score, and that RMSS thing is the lowest one. Highest on this is what's called low frequency power.
But when we're defining high HRV, it's really actually important that the highest HRV score, like you're going to see on your wearables, is not what we're necessarily talking about here. There's three criteria that are used to determine best HRV score, and that RMSS thing is the lowest one. Highest on this is what's called low frequency power.
This is another way of kind of defining and measuring your vagal nerve power. This is primitive. This is a thing we're optimizing for rather than that actual HRV score. Another really interesting one is looking at your HRV amplitude. I've talked about that before. It's the difference between kind of your maximum heart rate and your minimum heart rate in one breath cycle.
This is another way of kind of defining and measuring your vagal nerve power. This is primitive. This is a thing we're optimizing for rather than that actual HRV score. Another really interesting one is looking at your HRV amplitude. I've talked about that before. It's the difference between kind of your maximum heart rate and your minimum heart rate in one breath cycle.
Remember, when you breathe in, heart rate goes up. When you breathe out, it goes down. And so let's say when you took a breath in, you went to 80 and you took a breath out and it went to 40. 80 minus 40 is 40. So therefore your amplitude is 40. One thing that you'll see is people that are really well-trained physically have a really big amplitude.
Remember, when you breathe in, heart rate goes up. When you breathe out, it goes down. And so let's say when you took a breath in, you went to 80 and you took a breath out and it went to 40. 80 minus 40 is 40. So therefore your amplitude is 40. One thing that you'll see is people that are really well-trained physically have a really big amplitude.
People can go like a well-trained individual, cardiovascularly fit individual might have a resting heart rate of 40 and they might jump from 40 to like 90. So that amplitude would be 50 or someone who's not very physically fit might go from 60 to 70. My amplitude is 10. I know I'm throwing a lot of numbers and most of you are listening, so that's hard to follow along.
People can go like a well-trained individual, cardiovascularly fit individual might have a resting heart rate of 40 and they might jump from 40 to like 90. So that amplitude would be 50 or someone who's not very physically fit might go from 60 to 70. My amplitude is 10. I know I'm throwing a lot of numbers and most of you are listening, so that's hard to follow along.
But just the amplitude, the difference, your ability of your heart rate to go from really high to really low within one breath cycle is a positive thing. That is indicative of a really, really resilient nervous system. And remember, from the very beginning, that's what we're talking about today. The HRV score itself, again, cool, it's on there, but it's the bottom list.
But just the amplitude, the difference, your ability of your heart rate to go from really high to really low within one breath cycle is a positive thing. That is indicative of a really, really resilient nervous system. And remember, from the very beginning, that's what we're talking about today. The HRV score itself, again, cool, it's on there, but it's the bottom list.
So that's what we're optimizing for. And I needed to draw that little technical detail out there because I wanted to make sure that it's landing so deeply in your brain that we're trying to go after that resilience, not the score. And those other two measures, that frequency power and that heart rate amplitude, are the things that are more important than just that HRV score.
So that's what we're optimizing for. And I needed to draw that little technical detail out there because I wanted to make sure that it's landing so deeply in your brain that we're trying to go after that resilience, not the score. And those other two measures, that frequency power and that heart rate amplitude, are the things that are more important than just that HRV score.
So more to be said about the resident breathing thing, but it's just really phenomenal area that we love. I wish I had something to do with those companies. I don't, but they're just phenomenal products. So I wanted to make sure you had some specific example of something you could go try that I personally used and that I like.
So more to be said about the resident breathing thing, but it's just really phenomenal area that we love. I wish I had something to do with those companies. I don't, but they're just phenomenal products. So I wanted to make sure you had some specific example of something you could go try that I personally used and that I like.
Last thing I wanted to mention, and this is what some of you might deem to be outrageous, but again, full disclosure here, I have one of these things. I don't have anything to do with the company. But this is something that I've seen pop up a lot. I was just traveling around the country recently and saw a bunch of different professional and other groups using it.
Last thing I wanted to mention, and this is what some of you might deem to be outrageous, but again, full disclosure here, I have one of these things. I don't have anything to do with the company. But this is something that I've seen pop up a lot. I was just traveling around the country recently and saw a bunch of different professional and other groups using it.
I have one at my home, and this is a chair called the Shift Wave. It is $10,000, but it is phenomenal. You lay in this chair, it has haptic feedback, so it will vibrate. It has sensory control, what you're seeing. what you're hearing, and it has a whole bunch of programs, it will directly measure your heart rate and HRV.
I have one at my home, and this is a chair called the Shift Wave. It is $10,000, but it is phenomenal. You lay in this chair, it has haptic feedback, so it will vibrate. It has sensory control, what you're seeing. what you're hearing, and it has a whole bunch of programs, it will directly measure your heart rate and HRV.
And you can do guided biofeedback through, again, movement, through light and sound and a bunch of different strategies. I've used it a bunch. We use it a lot with... against special groups of individuals, and it's been really impressive.
And you can do guided biofeedback through, again, movement, through light and sound and a bunch of different strategies. I've used it a bunch. We use it a lot with... against special groups of individuals, and it's been really impressive.
So those of you that just want to know what the best in the world are doing behind the scenes, I can't say that everyone's doing it, but I know some are, and it is really pretty awesome. And so there you go. Check out the Shiftwave chair if you'd like. If that is completely ridiculous, you'd like $10,000 for a chair, I totally get it.
So those of you that just want to know what the best in the world are doing behind the scenes, I can't say that everyone's doing it, but I know some are, and it is really pretty awesome. And so there you go. Check out the Shiftwave chair if you'd like. If that is completely ridiculous, you'd like $10,000 for a chair, I totally get it.
And so we'll move on to our last couple of things that I just couldn't leave off the table. No good podcast can be done without talking briefly, and I do mean very briefly, about supplements. First and foremost, what we're talking about here mostly are acute benefits. Take caffeine, take a stimulant. You're going to change sympathetic drive, and you all know that.
And so we'll move on to our last couple of things that I just couldn't leave off the table. No good podcast can be done without talking briefly, and I do mean very briefly, about supplements. First and foremost, what we're talking about here mostly are acute benefits. Take caffeine, take a stimulant. You're going to change sympathetic drive, and you all know that.
But what's more interesting and I dove into a lot of was what do we know about chronic benefits? So if you're in that hole and HRV is way down for a long time, can supplements do much to bring you out of that hole and bring that HRV back up, bring that respiratory rate down or however we're defining autonomic control? The short answer is no. Not really.
But what's more interesting and I dove into a lot of was what do we know about chronic benefits? So if you're in that hole and HRV is way down for a long time, can supplements do much to bring you out of that hole and bring that HRV back up, bring that respiratory rate down or however we're defining autonomic control? The short answer is no. Not really.
Well, maybe they can, but there's not a lot of evidence to support that. Closest thing I found was there was actually several review articles and meta-analyses on omega-3s. Benefit doesn't seem to be huge. We know a lot of positive benefits of omega-3s, but this doesn't seem to be a massive one. But there's some indication that there's some help here. So that was pretty cool.
Well, maybe they can, but there's not a lot of evidence to support that. Closest thing I found was there was actually several review articles and meta-analyses on omega-3s. Benefit doesn't seem to be huge. We know a lot of positive benefits of omega-3s, but this doesn't seem to be a massive one. But there's some indication that there's some help here. So that was pretty cool.
Other ones that we'll see, I actually found a study on watermelon juice. Now, this may surprise you, but people don't realize that citrulline and arginine, the nitric oxide capacity in watermelons is pretty high. So there's a pretty cool study, they actually did it in combination with like an oral glucose tolerance test.
Other ones that we'll see, I actually found a study on watermelon juice. Now, this may surprise you, but people don't realize that citrulline and arginine, the nitric oxide capacity in watermelons is pretty high. So there's a pretty cool study, they actually did it in combination with like an oral glucose tolerance test.
And what they effectively found was it doesn't improve HRV, but what it does do is it blunts the HRV response when you dose them with something that should normally compromise it. It's stress inoculation. In fact, if you look at other things like ashwagandha, Very similar types of research.
And what they effectively found was it doesn't improve HRV, but what it does do is it blunts the HRV response when you dose them with something that should normally compromise it. It's stress inoculation. In fact, if you look at other things like ashwagandha, Very similar types of research.
So it's not that these things will take your resting HRV and make it get better, but what it will do is it helps you not be as responsive to a stressful stimuli. That is the true benefit. So whether this is high intensity exercise or a psychological stressor, things like watermelon juice or ashwagandha may blunt how much of an impact those things make on you.
So it's not that these things will take your resting HRV and make it get better, but what it will do is it helps you not be as responsive to a stressful stimuli. That is the true benefit. So whether this is high intensity exercise or a psychological stressor, things like watermelon juice or ashwagandha may blunt how much of an impact those things make on you.
So kind of stress inoculators, if you will, but they're not really recovering you from that hole, but worthy of mention nonetheless. A final one that I thought worthy of talking about was actually a review article on human studies that found an association between low vitamin D and B12 and low HRV. This was not a randomized controlled trial.
So kind of stress inoculators, if you will, but they're not really recovering you from that hole, but worthy of mention nonetheless. A final one that I thought worthy of talking about was actually a review article on human studies that found an association between low vitamin D and B12 and low HRV. This was not a randomized controlled trial.
This was not an intervention study, but it was interesting nonetheless. So I'll keep my eye out for more work in this area. Maybe we'll see that. Maybe if you take people who are low and getting vitamin D and B12, you will actually see a chronic improvement. And HRV over time. Maybe you won't. Not sure.
This was not an intervention study, but it was interesting nonetheless. So I'll keep my eye out for more work in this area. Maybe we'll see that. Maybe if you take people who are low and getting vitamin D and B12, you will actually see a chronic improvement. And HRV over time. Maybe you won't. Not sure.
I'd be willing to bet if you take and just give people who are normal in vitamin D and B12 those supplements, it probably won't do much. But we'll have to wait and see how the data pan out. So we've covered a lot of ground today. I think we should finish on a little bit of a wrap up. Want to keep this stuff in proper context. Remember that hormesis.
I'd be willing to bet if you take and just give people who are normal in vitamin D and B12 those supplements, it probably won't do much. But we'll have to wait and see how the data pan out. So we've covered a lot of ground today. I think we should finish on a little bit of a wrap up. Want to keep this stuff in proper context. Remember that hormesis.
We want to stimulate, but we don't want to annihilate. You want to touch the boundaries. You want to desensitize, but we don't want to push people so far into an area where it actually creates a greater stress response, a greater protective mechanism. Small bump and uncomfortableness gives you a nice rebound. That's what we're looking for.
We want to stimulate, but we don't want to annihilate. You want to touch the boundaries. You want to desensitize, but we don't want to push people so far into an area where it actually creates a greater stress response, a greater protective mechanism. Small bump and uncomfortableness gives you a nice rebound. That's what we're looking for.
But a huge trauma is not helpful or potentially even sends us backwards. There are a couple of types of people in this world in this regard. I call them big feelers, people that have that high interoception. They pay attention to themselves too much and they cause themselves way too much stress because they're hyper-focused on every little thing. In that case, maybe don't use that technology.
But a huge trauma is not helpful or potentially even sends us backwards. There are a couple of types of people in this world in this regard. I call them big feelers, people that have that high interoception. They pay attention to themselves too much and they cause themselves way too much stress because they're hyper-focused on every little thing. In that case, maybe don't use that technology.
Use more the feeling type of stuff or don't do anything. Pull them off of a lot of these things. Then you have the dull knives is what I call them, people that just have no contact with their body whatsoever. Maybe you want to use more of these technological solutions to get more calibrated and more aware. Other big conclusion we talked about is overall, the first step is just reducing arousal.
Use more the feeling type of stuff or don't do anything. Pull them off of a lot of these things. Then you have the dull knives is what I call them, people that just have no contact with their body whatsoever. Maybe you want to use more of these technological solutions to get more calibrated and more aware. Other big conclusion we talked about is overall, the first step is just reducing arousal.
This is critical. free thing you can do it's probably going to have multiple benefits across multiple areas of your life and so before we start worrying about specific protocols or supplements or anything like that let's just start by reducing our overall stress cup number three find things that work best for you this is fill your recovery cup this is something i haven't said yet
This is critical. free thing you can do it's probably going to have multiple benefits across multiple areas of your life and so before we start worrying about specific protocols or supplements or anything like that let's just start by reducing our overall stress cup number three find things that work best for you this is fill your recovery cup this is something i haven't said yet
But it's really what I've been getting at the whole time. It's not enough always to just reduce stimuli. Sometimes you gotta actively recover. Most people don't think about actively recovering until they desperately need it. So not being stressed is not the same as fully recovered. Spend time figuring out what hits it for you.
But it's really what I've been getting at the whole time. It's not enough always to just reduce stimuli. Sometimes you gotta actively recover. Most people don't think about actively recovering until they desperately need it. So not being stressed is not the same as fully recovered. Spend time figuring out what hits it for you.
I know some of the things that land for me and they're not the same for my wife. They're not the same for my family members or some of the athletes I work with. What really fills your recovery bucket up? Spend time tinkering with that and then use it honestly quite often and as much as you possibly can.
I know some of the things that land for me and they're not the same for my wife. They're not the same for my family members or some of the athletes I work with. What really fills your recovery bucket up? Spend time tinkering with that and then use it honestly quite often and as much as you possibly can.
Final thing I'll say here is don't expect those acute solutions, whether it's the supplements or the thermal immersions or the motivational quote or the music, don't expect those acute things to fix chronic problems, right? When you use the chronic problem solution stuff, probably looking at more than five minutes a day,
Final thing I'll say here is don't expect those acute solutions, whether it's the supplements or the thermal immersions or the motivational quote or the music, don't expect those acute things to fix chronic problems, right? When you use the chronic problem solution stuff, probably looking at more than five minutes a day,
ideally every day, if not multiple times a day, at least for the first four to six weeks. Past that, you can back it down, maybe even as little as just a couple of times per week, and you should be in a pretty good spot. Want to finish it up by giving some thank yous, as people have mentioned several times now. Thank you, Dr. Jay Wiles. Jay, you were phenomenal. You were so helpful here.
ideally every day, if not multiple times a day, at least for the first four to six weeks. Past that, you can back it down, maybe even as little as just a couple of times per week, and you should be in a pretty good spot. Want to finish it up by giving some thank yous, as people have mentioned several times now. Thank you, Dr. Jay Wiles. Jay, you were phenomenal. You were so helpful here.
We had a lot of conversations, and I deeply appreciate your help there. Jill Miller, I mentioned in your book, Body by Breath, covered a lot of these concepts. It was also incredibly helpful. Emily and Brian at Shift Adapt. And then somebody else, Martin McPhillamy, who I haven't had a chance to speak about yet, but has done a lot of great work in this area.
We had a lot of conversations, and I deeply appreciate your help there. Jill Miller, I mentioned in your book, Body by Breath, covered a lot of these concepts. It was also incredibly helpful. Emily and Brian at Shift Adapt. And then somebody else, Martin McPhillamy, who I haven't had a chance to speak about yet, but has done a lot of great work in this area.
So all you people, thank you so much for your help. I appreciate all of you for listening. I hope you have some new skills, some new things to try, some direct tools. Some may be more interesting to a few of you. Others may be less so. But either way, I would really love to hear feedback.
So all you people, thank you so much for your help. I appreciate all of you for listening. I hope you have some new skills, some new things to try, some direct tools. Some may be more interesting to a few of you. Others may be less so. But either way, I would really love to hear feedback.
which ones did you like which ones have you had different experiences with and if any of you do take the time to go try something comments on YouTube would be a great place to fill me in on what worked what didn't and any other feedback you have thank you so much and I look forward to doing it again Thank you for joining for today's episode.
which ones did you like which ones have you had different experiences with and if any of you do take the time to go try something comments on YouTube would be a great place to fill me in on what worked what didn't and any other feedback you have thank you so much and I look forward to doing it again Thank you for joining for today's episode.
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If you have any content questions or suggestions, please put those in the comment section on YouTube. I really do try my best to read them all and to see what you have to say. I use my Instagram and X profiles also exclusively for scientific communication. So those are great places to follow along for more learning. My handle is at Dr. Andy Galpin on both platforms.
If you have any content questions or suggestions, please put those in the comment section on YouTube. I really do try my best to read them all and to see what you have to say. I use my Instagram and X profiles also exclusively for scientific communication. So those are great places to follow along for more learning. My handle is at Dr. Andy Galpin on both platforms.
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We also have an email newsletter that distills all of our episodes in the most actionable takeaways. We have newsletters on how to improve fitness in a VO2 max, how to build muscle and strength, and much more. To subscribe to the newsletter, just go to performpodcast.com and click newsletter. It's completely free and we do not share your email with anybody. Thank you for listening.
And never forget in the famous words of Bill Bowerman, if you have a body, you are an athlete.
And never forget in the famous words of Bill Bowerman, if you have a body, you are an athlete.
the science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life. Welcome to Perform. I'm Dr. Andy Galpin. I'm a professor and scientist and the executive director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University. Today, I'm speaking with Jill Miller.
the science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life. Welcome to Perform. I'm Dr. Andy Galpin. I'm a professor and scientist and the executive director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University. Today, I'm speaking with Jill Miller.
Jill is an expert in everything from mobility to breathwork to bodywork, and especially in what's called self-myofascial release. Now, in this episode, you're going to learn more about what these things actually are and how to use them best. There are many broad applications of these techniques that extend beyond just pain relief and range of motion and mobility.
Jill is an expert in everything from mobility to breathwork to bodywork, and especially in what's called self-myofascial release. Now, in this episode, you're going to learn more about what these things actually are and how to use them best. There are many broad applications of these techniques that extend beyond just pain relief and range of motion and mobility.
Jill will talk about things like the role of the fascia and some of the science that's emerging and how that's regulating everything from your digestive system to your pain to your physical performance, strength, and power output. And so I know that whether you are dealing with pain yourself or physically,
Jill will talk about things like the role of the fascia and some of the science that's emerging and how that's regulating everything from your digestive system to your pain to your physical performance, strength, and power output. And so I know that whether you are dealing with pain yourself or physically,
you like yoga, you're into body work, breath work, or anywhere in between, you're going to find something in this episode that you may have not heard before, or at least you find tremendous value in. So with that said, please enjoy today's conversation with Jill Miller. Jill Miller, thank you so much for coming and chatting today.
you like yoga, you're into body work, breath work, or anywhere in between, you're going to find something in this episode that you may have not heard before, or at least you find tremendous value in. So with that said, please enjoy today's conversation with Jill Miller. Jill Miller, thank you so much for coming and chatting today.
My introduction to your work was, I think, from Kelly Starrett. Probably. 15 years ago or more, Brian McKenzie. But what really grabbed my attention was I had dabbled a lot and paid attention to the world of, we'll call it yoga. Okay. And for the most part, threw it all away. I just felt like there's just nothing here for what I'm doing.
My introduction to your work was, I think, from Kelly Starrett. Probably. 15 years ago or more, Brian McKenzie. But what really grabbed my attention was I had dabbled a lot and paid attention to the world of, we'll call it yoga. Okay. And for the most part, threw it all away. I just felt like there's just nothing here for what I'm doing.
I had gone through several experiences and didn't really appreciate it. And then I saw what you were doing, and I thought, this is the extraction. This is the stuff I wanted to get out of yoga, just me personally. And I thought, this girl's nailed it. You're all over it. So my thoughts of you still to this day are that.
I had gone through several experiences and didn't really appreciate it. And then I saw what you were doing, and I thought, this is the extraction. This is the stuff I wanted to get out of yoga, just me personally. And I thought, this girl's nailed it. You're all over it. So my thoughts of you still to this day are that.
It is the best parts of yoga that, again, for me personally, what I was looking for in myself and clients and the scientific experience, as well as there's so many other ways we can go about Self-care, the physical body, recovery. There's just there's so many ways you can get to. And I've yet to see anybody put it together better than you.
It is the best parts of yoga that, again, for me personally, what I was looking for in myself and clients and the scientific experience, as well as there's so many other ways we can go about Self-care, the physical body, recovery. There's just there's so many ways you can get to. And I've yet to see anybody put it together better than you.
So as an introduction, there was no question there, but it was just letting, you know, framing when I think about the reasons why I was dying to get you in here for this conversation. It is all that stuff. And I have a I have literally three pages of notes in front of me, as you can see. And I'm super excited to go into that stuff.
So as an introduction, there was no question there, but it was just letting, you know, framing when I think about the reasons why I was dying to get you in here for this conversation. It is all that stuff. And I have a I have literally three pages of notes in front of me, as you can see. And I'm super excited to go into that stuff.
So if it's okay with you, I would love to talk a ton about all those things in a bunch of different areas.
So if it's okay with you, I would love to talk a ton about all those things in a bunch of different areas.
Great. I have both your books. I have many of your products. I've been to your courses. I'm like such a Jill Miller fan. It's ridiculous. All that to say, I thought maybe we could just start directly with this first idea.
Great. I have both your books. I have many of your products. I've been to your courses. I'm like such a Jill Miller fan. It's ridiculous. All that to say, I thought maybe we could just start directly with this first idea.
When I traditionally had always thought of foam rolling, It was just compression. It was if your hamstring is tight, you smash it and it gets untight. And I don't know if the science works or I don't care how it works, the physiology. I just know if I smashed it on there, like I felt a little bit better in those moments. Mm-hmm.
When I traditionally had always thought of foam rolling, It was just compression. It was if your hamstring is tight, you smash it and it gets untight. And I don't know if the science works or I don't care how it works, the physiology. I just know if I smashed it on there, like I felt a little bit better in those moments. Mm-hmm.
What is the difference between that compression is what I'll just keep calling it. And maybe that's the wrong term, but let me know. Style of foam rolling versus other options. And maybe actually we'll just start right there. Like what is the compression stuff doing? What do we know about it? How's it working? Is it working?
What is the difference between that compression is what I'll just keep calling it. And maybe that's the wrong term, but let me know. Style of foam rolling versus other options. And maybe actually we'll just start right there. Like what is the compression stuff doing? What do we know about it? How's it working? Is it working?
And then from there, let's explore some of the other ideas and ways and strategies we can actually maybe do things better.
And then from there, let's explore some of the other ideas and ways and strategies we can actually maybe do things better.
Today's episode is sponsored by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, sleep tracking, and more. I've personally been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for years now, and it's absolutely glorious. I love it so much that I hate traveling away from home because it means I can't sleep on my Eight Sleep Pod 4 Ultra.
Today's episode is sponsored by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, sleep tracking, and more. I've personally been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for years now, and it's absolutely glorious. I love it so much that I hate traveling away from home because it means I can't sleep on my Eight Sleep Pod 4 Ultra.
As you'll hear me talk about endlessly on this podcast, there really is nothing you can do that makes more of an impact on your health and performance than getting tremendous sleep. And getting great sleep requires having your body temperature drop a couple of degrees at night. And that's hard to do on your own. The eight sleep has been a game changer for me because I run hot at night.
As you'll hear me talk about endlessly on this podcast, there really is nothing you can do that makes more of an impact on your health and performance than getting tremendous sleep. And getting great sleep requires having your body temperature drop a couple of degrees at night. And that's hard to do on your own. The eight sleep has been a game changer for me because I run hot at night.
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8sleep currently ships to the US, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU, and even Australia. Again, that's 8sleep.com slash perform. Today's episode is also sponsored by Momentus. Momentus makes the highest quality supplements on the market, period. Many of you know me, and you know that I do not trust the vast majority of supplement companies. And for good reason.
8sleep currently ships to the US, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU, and even Australia. Again, that's 8sleep.com slash perform. Today's episode is also sponsored by Momentus. Momentus makes the highest quality supplements on the market, period. Many of you know me, and you know that I do not trust the vast majority of supplement companies. And for good reason.
Many studies have shown that anywhere between 10 to up to 40% of supplements have accidental contaminants, intentional alterations, mislabeling, or other serious issues. But Momentus is different. I literally spent years vetting the company, their products, and leadership team before personally officially partnering with them in 2023.
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Every single one of Momentus' products is third-party tested to ensure quality, and many are even NSF certified for sport. Now, while I love all of their products, the ones I use the most, both personally and with my clients, are what I call the big three. And these are the omega-3 fish oil, creatine, and newly improved whey protein formula.
These three supplements have fantastic data supporting their benefits. Whey protein for lean muscle mass, omega-3s for brain health, and creatine for both muscle and brain support. And they have been shown to be very safe across basically all populations of people, young, old, men, women, et cetera. Now, nobody has to use supplements, and I hope you never feel pressured to do so.
These three supplements have fantastic data supporting their benefits. Whey protein for lean muscle mass, omega-3s for brain health, and creatine for both muscle and brain support. And they have been shown to be very safe across basically all populations of people, young, old, men, women, et cetera. Now, nobody has to use supplements, and I hope you never feel pressured to do so.
But if you're interested in supplements, it's important that you get them from the highest quality providers. You don't want mercury in your fish oil or lead in your whey protein or anything like that. So that's why I stick exclusively to Momentus. If you'd like to give Momentus a try, go to livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off your order.
But if you're interested in supplements, it's important that you get them from the highest quality providers. You don't want mercury in your fish oil or lead in your whey protein or anything like that. So that's why I stick exclusively to Momentus. If you'd like to give Momentus a try, go to livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off your order.
Again, that's livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off. I think if you were to ask most people, massage, foam roll, does it help range of motion? You'd probably say, oh yeah, I kind of rolled up my hamstrings and I stretched afterwards. I felt better. If you ask them about, does it reduce pain, muscle soreness?
Again, that's livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off. I think if you were to ask most people, massage, foam roll, does it help range of motion? You'd probably say, oh yeah, I kind of rolled up my hamstrings and I stretched afterwards. I felt better. If you ask them about, does it reduce pain, muscle soreness?
Again, you would maybe see some conflicting results, but a lot of people say, yeah, like I was really tight and sore. I'm not as sore.
Again, you would maybe see some conflicting results, but a lot of people say, yeah, like I was really tight and sore. I'm not as sore.
Yeah. Okay. So. The data on muscle soreness specifically is probably the most pronounced in terms of the most studies in this area. If we're talking all things fascial, if we're talking all things myofascial release, if we're talking all things kind of this whole area. When you get outside of muscle soreness, then the questions start arising.
Yeah. Okay. So. The data on muscle soreness specifically is probably the most pronounced in terms of the most studies in this area. If we're talking all things fascial, if we're talking all things myofascial release, if we're talking all things kind of this whole area. When you get outside of muscle soreness, then the questions start arising.
What other benefits am I getting from, again, we'll just collectively call all these things there. A lot of questions, a lot of different areas. But I want to start at the very, very, very top, right? So we know that this compression stuff works. Let me start off with a couple of misconceptions, things I'm not sure on.
What other benefits am I getting from, again, we'll just collectively call all these things there. A lot of questions, a lot of different areas. But I want to start at the very, very, very top, right? So we know that this compression stuff works. Let me start off with a couple of misconceptions, things I'm not sure on.
When I'm doing a foam roll, when I'm doing a massage, what is actually happening right there? Am I breaking up scar tissue? Are my fibers misaligned and I'm rolling them back together? What is actually happening at the tissue level that explains any of those other benefits that we're going to get to way, way later? What's the mechanism here?
When I'm doing a foam roll, when I'm doing a massage, what is actually happening right there? Am I breaking up scar tissue? Are my fibers misaligned and I'm rolling them back together? What is actually happening at the tissue level that explains any of those other benefits that we're going to get to way, way later? What's the mechanism here?
Got it.
Got it.
I didn't realize the nervous system connection or the actual nerve connection into fascia.
I didn't realize the nervous system connection or the actual nerve connection into fascia.
But wait, there's more. Oh, I'm sure. But you have your skin. Yeah. Your skin and you have your muscle. When we think of these areas, again, stretching and massage and I'm in pain, my muscles are sore. Before your work and before paying attention to all this stuff in fascia, my assumption was that these were muscle problems. My muscle is sore.
But wait, there's more. Oh, I'm sure. But you have your skin. Yeah. Your skin and you have your muscle. When we think of these areas, again, stretching and massage and I'm in pain, my muscles are sore. Before your work and before paying attention to all this stuff in fascia, my assumption was that these were muscle problems. My muscle is sore.
People think that they've got micro damage in their muscles after workouts. What is this fascia stuff?
People think that they've got micro damage in their muscles after workouts. What is this fascia stuff?
That's the seams. That's the connection, right? That's the way through. So if I'm looking at like your jean jacket right now, like the jacket is my skin potentially. Your body is underneath that and the seams literally are the things connecting the muscle to the skin and well, from toe to toe to chin.
That's the seams. That's the connection, right? That's the way through. So if I'm looking at like your jean jacket right now, like the jacket is my skin potentially. Your body is underneath that and the seams literally are the things connecting the muscle to the skin and well, from toe to toe to chin.
This is actually amazing. What you're saying is if you were to do that prior to your workouts and this had some sort of a pain dampening effect, you could then train closer to that pain ceiling but below it. Is this deadening the nerves? Is this getting them – that the pain receptors calm down more? Like is this exactly what you were talking about as a way for your pain management strategy? Yes.
This is actually amazing. What you're saying is if you were to do that prior to your workouts and this had some sort of a pain dampening effect, you could then train closer to that pain ceiling but below it. Is this deadening the nerves? Is this getting them – that the pain receptors calm down more? Like is this exactly what you were talking about as a way for your pain management strategy? Yes.
If I, and I've seen people do this a thousand times, if I were to take a tennis ball and put it underneath the bottom of my foot right now, maybe a baseball, a harder one. And I would roll on that for two minutes. I would probably stand up and if I were to bend over and touch my toes, my range of motion would be greater, right? This is the fascial connection, right?
If I, and I've seen people do this a thousand times, if I were to take a tennis ball and put it underneath the bottom of my foot right now, maybe a baseball, a harder one. And I would roll on that for two minutes. I would probably stand up and if I were to bend over and touch my toes, my range of motion would be greater, right? This is the fascial connection, right?
So I've undone some of the fascia, however you want to think about this, and the bottom of my foot. And since they transferred all the way up to the back of my spine and then all the back of my head, hopefully that has created some change in range of motion. How long does that last? A few minutes? A few hours? What do we know about the length of a single acute session for that range of motion?
So I've undone some of the fascia, however you want to think about this, and the bottom of my foot. And since they transferred all the way up to the back of my spine and then all the back of my head, hopefully that has created some change in range of motion. How long does that last? A few minutes? A few hours? What do we know about the length of a single acute session for that range of motion?
And is that range of motion, if that's all I did, is that going to have any chronic effect?
And is that range of motion, if that's all I did, is that going to have any chronic effect?
And that makes a ton of sense. It would be pretty silly to think if I were to roll on a foam roller for two minutes and then all of a sudden I get up and I have a structural change in the anatomy of my quad.
And that makes a ton of sense. It would be pretty silly to think if I were to roll on a foam roller for two minutes and then all of a sudden I get up and I have a structural change in the anatomy of my quad.
That would be pretty ridiculous to think, right? So how long is that typically going to last? A few minutes, a few hours? As you alluded to earlier, if your only strategy is foam rolling... Or whatever the case is, it's probably not correcting it. So what other stuff do I have to do? What things can I tack on that give me a higher likelihood of this being a more permanent change?
That would be pretty ridiculous to think, right? So how long is that typically going to last? A few minutes, a few hours? As you alluded to earlier, if your only strategy is foam rolling... Or whatever the case is, it's probably not correcting it. So what other stuff do I have to do? What things can I tack on that give me a higher likelihood of this being a more permanent change?
I want to know what a sample model of that could look like. But before we do that, I've got a couple of quick questions on this particular topic. We asked about duration changes. My assumption is the harder you press, the more pain you're in, the better things get here, right?
I want to know what a sample model of that could look like. But before we do that, I've got a couple of quick questions on this particular topic. We asked about duration changes. My assumption is the harder you press, the more pain you're in, the better things get here, right?
That's how I really get these things changed, right? And I'm not actually joking because that was actually my strategy. Thank you, Kelly Starrett. Pain cave was my approach. And I always thought the more pain I'm in, the more it's solving the problem, it's causing the release, whatever was working. So what do we know about pain? The dosage, how long does it have to be? How hard do I have to press?
That's how I really get these things changed, right? And I'm not actually joking because that was actually my strategy. Thank you, Kelly Starrett. Pain cave was my approach. And I always thought the more pain I'm in, the more it's solving the problem, it's causing the release, whatever was working. So what do we know about pain? The dosage, how long does it have to be? How hard do I have to press?
More pain, less pain? Give me the quick rubdown on that part of it before we get into these more comprehensive strategies.
More pain, less pain? Give me the quick rubdown on that part of it before we get into these more comprehensive strategies.
Okay. Yep.
Okay. Yep.
Oh, damn.
Oh, damn.
I will tell you right now, the soft tools were 500 times more effective for me.
I will tell you right now, the soft tools were 500 times more effective for me.
So that's a part of this conversation strategy, right?
So that's a part of this conversation strategy, right?
The ones that put themselves in more pain got better, right?
The ones that put themselves in more pain got better, right?
Yeah, well, I'm still going to try to beat it out, but I appreciate you and your science, Jill. The glare. If you all just saw the glare she just gave me. No, I don't do it. I've learned my lesson from there.
Yeah, well, I'm still going to try to beat it out, but I appreciate you and your science, Jill. The glare. If you all just saw the glare she just gave me. No, I don't do it. I've learned my lesson from there.
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I would imagine the same logic extends to formal massage. So this is, if you're thinking about the classic Swedish massage and deep tissue, right? So obviously the normal thing feels good. Deep tissue is great, but probably the same thing for any type of self-care, any type of stretching.
I would imagine the same logic extends to formal massage. So this is, if you're thinking about the classic Swedish massage and deep tissue, right? So obviously the normal thing feels good. Deep tissue is great, but probably the same thing for any type of self-care, any type of stretching.
If you're to the point of extreme discomfort, potentially not your best strategy because of protective mechanisms, locking up and stuff. So some amount of Discomfort, but not past what, like 3 out of 10, 4 out of 10?
If you're to the point of extreme discomfort, potentially not your best strategy because of protective mechanisms, locking up and stuff. So some amount of Discomfort, but not past what, like 3 out of 10, 4 out of 10?
Yeah. I would imagine then what you're saying is if you're, If your myofascial release strategy is check your phone, hands are supposed to come up with emails while you're cruising on a foam roller for three minutes, what you're trying to tell me is that's probably not the most effective strategy.
Yeah. I would imagine then what you're saying is if you're, If your myofascial release strategy is check your phone, hands are supposed to come up with emails while you're cruising on a foam roller for three minutes, what you're trying to tell me is that's probably not the most effective strategy.
Because it's just smashing, moving.
Because it's just smashing, moving.
I think this is a really nice way to frame it because— it's still not negative, right? You hop on a foam roller for one minute, but bad things didn't happen. But are you getting the most bang for your buck? And this allows people to level up when they want to, right? So if you need to check out for a few minutes on the massage table, check out, great.
I think this is a really nice way to frame it because— it's still not negative, right? You hop on a foam roller for one minute, but bad things didn't happen. But are you getting the most bang for your buck? And this allows people to level up when they want to, right? So if you need to check out for a few minutes on the massage table, check out, great.
But if you're also then trying to use this as a strategy for many other things, there are options. And just people knowing you can use modalities like this to go after bigger problems, It's something that I don't think a lot of folks really realize. So I know you have many examples of that.
But if you're also then trying to use this as a strategy for many other things, there are options. And just people knowing you can use modalities like this to go after bigger problems, It's something that I don't think a lot of folks really realize. So I know you have many examples of that.
But before we get to any of that, I really want to dwell on double, triple, quadruple tap on this compression idea.
But before we get to any of that, I really want to dwell on double, triple, quadruple tap on this compression idea.
I want you to walk me through, you said glide earlier. This is what I said earlier was I didn't realize you could do it. I didn't realize self-massage could be anything besides compression.
I want you to walk me through, you said glide earlier. This is what I said earlier was I didn't realize you could do it. I didn't realize self-massage could be anything besides compression.
So hit me with... Why am I pulling? You gave the examples earlier of your skin. I had no idea your skin should move, right? When you pull it up and pop it, like, okay, great. But I didn't know it should glide past and feel like that. I didn't know when it got pinned down that that was telling me anything.
So hit me with... Why am I pulling? You gave the examples earlier of your skin. I had no idea your skin should move, right? When you pull it up and pop it, like, okay, great. But I didn't know it should glide past and feel like that. I didn't know when it got pinned down that that was telling me anything.
I didn't realize if I grabbed the outside of my quad and I punched the skin off there, it should slide past itself. Once I realized that, once I started using your strategies and then I started watching and looking at people doing things like cupping, I was like, oh, there is way more to this game than just compression.
I didn't realize if I grabbed the outside of my quad and I punched the skin off there, it should slide past itself. Once I realized that, once I started using your strategies and then I started watching and looking at people doing things like cupping, I was like, oh, there is way more to this game than just compression.
So whether this is massage compression, self-massage compression, foam rolling, we're still talking compression, compression, compression, right? What's the other side of this equation or the other two sides or however you frame it to be?
So whether this is massage compression, self-massage compression, foam rolling, we're still talking compression, compression, compression, right? What's the other side of this equation or the other two sides or however you frame it to be?
I love it so much.
I love it so much.
How do I perform decompression by myself? As I was alluding to earlier, this is what changed for me, right? I can foam roll my back. I feel a little bit better for five seconds. But when I do traction, when I do decompression, for specifically my low back, that's the big changes I get. And that lasts hours. Hours. For me personally. It's not the same.
How do I perform decompression by myself? As I was alluding to earlier, this is what changed for me, right? I can foam roll my back. I feel a little bit better for five seconds. But when I do traction, when I do decompression, for specifically my low back, that's the big changes I get. And that lasts hours. Hours. For me personally. It's not the same.
Other areas of my body feel better actually with compression, with smashing. But certainly it is always going to be traction. You mentioned glide and slide. You talked about...
Other areas of my body feel better actually with compression, with smashing. But certainly it is always going to be traction. You mentioned glide and slide. You talked about...
twisting and for people at home like visualizes literally pinch your skin like your little brother would pinch you and twist it and do that and keep doing that and move it around and then you'll let it go and once the kind of pain from the pinch goes away you realize like oh my gosh that whole area is moving better now i would just love a few more direct examples how can people do traction and decompression all by themselves
twisting and for people at home like visualizes literally pinch your skin like your little brother would pinch you and twist it and do that and keep doing that and move it around and then you'll let it go and once the kind of pain from the pinch goes away you realize like oh my gosh that whole area is moving better now i would just love a few more direct examples how can people do traction and decompression all by themselves
Yes. I know the science hates self-myofascial release.
Yes. I know the science hates self-myofascial release.
And nothing hurt.
And nothing hurt.
There is, I would say, I don't know, probably a doubling of the literature in myofascial release in the last couple of years. It is really, really exploding. There was not much to... I mean, I literally think it's probably doubled. You're right. So we're learning more clearly. We don't have all the answers. This is a field where...
There is, I would say, I don't know, probably a doubling of the literature in myofascial release in the last couple of years. It is really, really exploding. There was not much to... I mean, I literally think it's probably doubled. You're right. So we're learning more clearly. We don't have all the answers. This is a field where...
We have to lean on clinicians, is my opinion, because the science is catching up. We're getting there. But we need to have people like you who can simply tell us this is what I've done and this is the people and this is the coaching access to give us more tools because the science is just going to be behind us for some time. So I know that there is distension with the term myofascial release.
We have to lean on clinicians, is my opinion, because the science is catching up. We're getting there. But we need to have people like you who can simply tell us this is what I've done and this is the people and this is the coaching access to give us more tools because the science is just going to be behind us for some time. So I know that there is distension with the term myofascial release.
And you've alluded to that earlier. It doesn't necessarily only mean that the myofascial themselves are being released. So do you know, is there a more appropriate scientific term? Is that still kind of up for debate or landing?
And you've alluded to that earlier. It doesn't necessarily only mean that the myofascial themselves are being released. So do you know, is there a more appropriate scientific term? Is that still kind of up for debate or landing?
Treatment?
Treatment?
Well, we don't have a great term.
Well, we don't have a great term.
Sure. Because the actual result, the release, we can't guarantee. We can guarantee the massage part or the manipulation. Right, and the manipulation.
Sure. Because the actual result, the release, we can't guarantee. We can guarantee the massage part or the manipulation. Right, and the manipulation.
Quick question. Do you have any sample videos online if someone wanted to see that exercise, something like that, that we can link to the show notes? Yes.
Quick question. Do you have any sample videos online if someone wanted to see that exercise, something like that, that we can link to the show notes? Yes.
Okay, great. So you guys want to go try that out. We can link all that directly in the show notes. Today's episode is sponsored by David. David makes protein bars unlike any I have ever encountered. They have an amazing 28 grams of protein, only 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. That's right, 28 grams of protein and 75% of its calories come from that protein.
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Can we start by walking us through the two primary diaphragms we're going to be worried about here? People hear diaphragm, they forget there's like multiple, four of them. Top one, bottom one. What are they doing here and what's this got to do with our conversation?
Can we start by walking us through the two primary diaphragms we're going to be worried about here? People hear diaphragm, they forget there's like multiple, four of them. Top one, bottom one. What are they doing here and what's this got to do with our conversation?
And you can see, again, the point I'm working to here is, like, how do we actually use the gut very physiologically and anatomically to get pain gone from everywhere else in my body?
And you can see, again, the point I'm working to here is, like, how do we actually use the gut very physiologically and anatomically to get pain gone from everywhere else in my body?
Sure.
Sure.
The respiratory diaphragm specifically.
The respiratory diaphragm specifically.
That's exactly what I felt. Yep.
That's exactly what I felt. Yep.
Yeah, it was. I think I described it as it was so different it didn't even feel like the same body parts. It was as different as my right knee is from my left elbow. It was completely separate.
Yeah, it was. I think I described it as it was so different it didn't even feel like the same body parts. It was as different as my right knee is from my left elbow. It was completely separate.
Yeah. Only because I know where it is when we do different parts of breathing, I would know that. But I have no kinesthetic or proprioceptive awareness at all of my diaphragm.
Yeah. Only because I know where it is when we do different parts of breathing, I would know that. But I have no kinesthetic or proprioceptive awareness at all of my diaphragm.
There's your horizontal movement right there.
There's your horizontal movement right there.
Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Duly noted. I went for gut smash first, for the record.
Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Duly noted. I went for gut smash first, for the record.
Okay, fairness. It's an easy story to tell. If my diaphragm isn't working, I can see how this could reduce performance, right? I could reduce my endurance because I'm not breathing correctly. I can see all the things. My question is past that. How do I know? How can I tell if my diaphragm's working or not? I can't feel it, like you said earlier.
Okay, fairness. It's an easy story to tell. If my diaphragm isn't working, I can see how this could reduce performance, right? I could reduce my endurance because I'm not breathing correctly. I can see all the things. My question is past that. How do I know? How can I tell if my diaphragm's working or not? I can't feel it, like you said earlier.
Maybe my back doesn't hurt, so I don't have any sign of dysfunction. How is one to know if their diaphragm is working correctly? I believe you. It is the center of human movement. It's all those things. How do I know?
Maybe my back doesn't hurt, so I don't have any sign of dysfunction. How is one to know if their diaphragm is working correctly? I believe you. It is the center of human movement. It's all those things. How do I know?
Okay, fair.
Okay, fair.
Yep.
Yep.
How would I know if I'm in one, two, or three? What would be sign symptoms? Help me figure that one out.
How would I know if I'm in one, two, or three? What would be sign symptoms? Help me figure that one out.
Bruxism, chronic headaches. I would imagine this would be the same story, right? Pretty, you can't go as far as to say that's always because you're breathing that way. But I would imagine there's some pretty reasonable correlation between somebody who is in zone three breathing, as you're mentioning, and again, chronic headaches, migraines, bruxism, chock lynching, the whole thing, right?
Bruxism, chronic headaches. I would imagine this would be the same story, right? Pretty, you can't go as far as to say that's always because you're breathing that way. But I would imagine there's some pretty reasonable correlation between somebody who is in zone three breathing, as you're mentioning, and again, chronic headaches, migraines, bruxism, chock lynching, the whole thing, right?
And so what you're really trying to do is to get them to be more self-aware by spending more time in two.
And so what you're really trying to do is to get them to be more self-aware by spending more time in two.
You're saying you'll realize you're in three and you don't even know it.
You're saying you'll realize you're in three and you don't even know it.
Could you give me one sample of what something like that would look like? I'm laying there on my side. How many breaths am I taking? How long am I staying there for? Am I doing this every day, multiple times a day? I know the answer is, you know, depends on all the situations. But what would be kind of a sample strategy here?
Could you give me one sample of what something like that would look like? I'm laying there on my side. How many breaths am I taking? How long am I staying there for? Am I doing this every day, multiple times a day? I know the answer is, you know, depends on all the situations. But what would be kind of a sample strategy here?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'd imagine once a day to start, to get that going and see what happens, right? You could probably do better. Yeah.
So I'd imagine once a day to start, to get that going and see what happens, right? You could probably do better. Yeah.
Morning or night would be better.
Morning or night would be better.
You got one still. Give me one. Do I got to do it? Let's say I'm dealing with headaches and jaw pain at night.
You got one still. Give me one. Do I got to do it? Let's say I'm dealing with headaches and jaw pain at night.
Okay. You're not going to just let me get away with the morning.
Okay. You're not going to just let me get away with the morning.
Yeah, it makes sense, right? Get into good positions before you go train and then get into good positions before you go to bed. How could you not do that? When we think about stress, autonomic nervous system, we have our two branches. We'll keep it as two for now. So we have our sympathetic nervous system, fight and flight. We have our parasympathetic, rest and digest.
Yeah, it makes sense, right? Get into good positions before you go train and then get into good positions before you go to bed. How could you not do that? When we think about stress, autonomic nervous system, we have our two branches. We'll keep it as two for now. So we have our sympathetic nervous system, fight and flight. We have our parasympathetic, rest and digest.
There's more to the story here, friends. Yes, I'm aware, but For the sake of conversation, we'll keep it right there. Most people assume if I'm not at a high heart rate, if I'm not mentally stressed right now, that my central nervous or my sympathetic nervous system, my fight or flight is not on. But there's a very clear difference between not being on
There's more to the story here, friends. Yes, I'm aware, but For the sake of conversation, we'll keep it right there. Most people assume if I'm not at a high heart rate, if I'm not mentally stressed right now, that my central nervous or my sympathetic nervous system, my fight or flight is not on. But there's a very clear difference between not being on
and actively pressing the gas or turning, what is it, turning off on?
and actively pressing the gas or turning, what is it, turning off on?
Turning on the off switch. How should we think about this? What are strategies we can do to be more effective at turning the off switch on more? Did I capture that correctly?
Turning on the off switch. How should we think about this? What are strategies we can do to be more effective at turning the off switch on more? Did I capture that correctly?
Super easy. I really appreciate you laying that out. That is going to be phenomenally effective for a lot of people. I guarantee it. The last thing I want to draw into all this is then how does this relate to things like the pelvic floor, right? So I said earlier, there's multiple diaphragms. Pelvic floor is a diaphragm, right? It's just the bottom one, right? I admittedly don't spend a ton of time
Super easy. I really appreciate you laying that out. That is going to be phenomenally effective for a lot of people. I guarantee it. The last thing I want to draw into all this is then how does this relate to things like the pelvic floor, right? So I said earlier, there's multiple diaphragms. Pelvic floor is a diaphragm, right? It's just the bottom one, right? I admittedly don't spend a ton of time
on pelvic floor development, but this is a clear aspect of it, right? So how does the pelvic floor, and we could certainly do an entire discussion, many of them on the pelvic floor, but what are the top hitting things as it relates to the conversation thus far that we should be thinking about with the diaphragmic floor?
on pelvic floor development, but this is a clear aspect of it, right? So how does the pelvic floor, and we could certainly do an entire discussion, many of them on the pelvic floor, but what are the top hitting things as it relates to the conversation thus far that we should be thinking about with the diaphragmic floor?
It looks quite similar to the respiratory diaphragm, by the way, like reasonably similar.
It looks quite similar to the respiratory diaphragm, by the way, like reasonably similar.
That's actually really, really helpful. People have oftentimes heard of things like rib flaring, right? And you just described it a little bit differently. So imagine, again, the bottom of your ribs are opening up. Instead of the bottom of your ribs pointing directly down, they're pointing, say, at a 45-degree angle up.
That's actually really, really helpful. People have oftentimes heard of things like rib flaring, right? And you just described it a little bit differently. So imagine, again, the bottom of your ribs are opening up. Instead of the bottom of your ribs pointing directly down, they're pointing, say, at a 45-degree angle up.
Therefore, when you breathe and you're expanding that, that pressure is now going outwards, horizontal to your body instead of vertically, which then pushes on the pelvic floor to get it to move correctly. You're also then reducing pressure posteriorly, right? Yes. And that matters because that's the low back getting pinned down.
Therefore, when you breathe and you're expanding that, that pressure is now going outwards, horizontal to your body instead of vertically, which then pushes on the pelvic floor to get it to move correctly. You're also then reducing pressure posteriorly, right? Yes. And that matters because that's the low back getting pinned down.
Right?
Right?
Right. There you go. Right. So it's all of this stuff. That's why stacking is like we'll use that term pretty colloquially stacking those two diaphragms on top of each other is the optimal scenario. Yes. They're both tilted front or back. We can live. It's when they are off kilter and the pressure, whether it's the bottom one, by the way. Or the top one.
Right. There you go. Right. So it's all of this stuff. That's why stacking is like we'll use that term pretty colloquially stacking those two diaphragms on top of each other is the optimal scenario. Yes. They're both tilted front or back. We can live. It's when they are off kilter and the pressure, whether it's the bottom one, by the way. Or the top one.
So whether this is pelvic tilt causing the problem or rib flaring or the opposite, either way, we're in dysfunction, which can manifest itself, as we've been saying all day, in a thousand different things.
So whether this is pelvic tilt causing the problem or rib flaring or the opposite, either way, we're in dysfunction, which can manifest itself, as we've been saying all day, in a thousand different things.
Yeah. What are the accepted best practices for dealing with diastasis recti?
Yeah. What are the accepted best practices for dealing with diastasis recti?
You can imagine playing—what's the game, like the doctor game? Where the kids can go in and try to... Operation. Operation, right? So you imagine a slit going from your sternum all the way down. You would splay left and right, horizontally, and you would splay vertically, right? You would open up in all four areas. That's exactly the line you're talking about.
You can imagine playing—what's the game, like the doctor game? Where the kids can go in and try to... Operation. Operation, right? So you imagine a slit going from your sternum all the way down. You would splay left and right, horizontally, and you would splay vertically, right? You would open up in all four areas. That's exactly the line you're talking about.
If you can imagine... And I'm basically saying this little piece for the male audience because I know every female listening knows exactly what you're talking about already. But if you think about a... Six-pack. And you think about the muscles are two columns of three, right? So one next to each other, left and right.
If you can imagine... And I'm basically saying this little piece for the male audience because I know every female listening knows exactly what you're talking about already. But if you think about a... Six-pack. And you think about the muscles are two columns of three, right? So one next to each other, left and right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that middle line between the two columns is exactly what you're talking about. This is a fascia. This is a connective tissue issue. This is why we're talking about it, right? So when that becomes splayed open, you have that effect of the operation. You've had a tight line. You called it a zipper. Perfect analogy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that middle line between the two columns is exactly what you're talking about. This is a fascia. This is a connective tissue issue. This is why we're talking about it, right? So when that becomes splayed open, you have that effect of the operation. You've had a tight line. You called it a zipper. Perfect analogy.
It's supposed to keep those two sides connected so force can transfer and everything else. It's not working. It's damaged or damaged. How are we going to phrase that?
It's supposed to keep those two sides connected so force can transfer and everything else. It's not working. It's damaged or damaged. How are we going to phrase that?
You have to.
You have to.
Okay. Well, that's important to know. Again, speaking, I'm sorry to offend, but mostly to the male side of the equation here, a year. Not six weeks. No, not six weeks. Not 16 weeks, right? This is two-thirds by a year, which means a third still after a year are not back, right?
Okay. Well, that's important to know. Again, speaking, I'm sorry to offend, but mostly to the male side of the equation here, a year. Not six weeks. No, not six weeks. Not 16 weeks, right? This is two-thirds by a year, which means a third still after a year are not back, right?
Amazing. We could certainly do a whole show just on DR without question, but I think we'll leave people right now with saying pelvic floor physical therapist would be the place to go. And generally your recommendation for this area, for people that want a program they're dealing with right now, or maybe they're pregnant or going to become pregnant, so on and so forth, that would be the
Amazing. We could certainly do a whole show just on DR without question, but I think we'll leave people right now with saying pelvic floor physical therapist would be the place to go. And generally your recommendation for this area, for people that want a program they're dealing with right now, or maybe they're pregnant or going to become pregnant, so on and so forth, that would be the
the broad category of people to start off with at least, right?
the broad category of people to start off with at least, right?
What you're talking about is a case of kind of hypermobility, right?
What you're talking about is a case of kind of hypermobility, right?
Makes sense.
Makes sense.
Going to the other end of the spectrum, somebody that needs to gain flexibility, needs to gain mobility. Outside of, of course, the foam rolling and things you've described so far. Where does static stretching land in this equation? Do you like it? Do you hate it? Should it be done in a particular way?
Going to the other end of the spectrum, somebody that needs to gain flexibility, needs to gain mobility. Outside of, of course, the foam rolling and things you've described so far. Where does static stretching land in this equation? Do you like it? Do you hate it? Should it be done in a particular way?
You mentioned at the very beginning and I said when I tend to think of manual therapy. I almost always associate this as pain. In other words, I did too much training in my quad. I'm going to roll it out so I'm not so sore. Or I think about I'm tight, right? So I'm going to use these two things. I basically didn't think about this area at all outside of those two cases.
You mentioned at the very beginning and I said when I tend to think of manual therapy. I almost always associate this as pain. In other words, I did too much training in my quad. I'm going to roll it out so I'm not so sore. Or I think about I'm tight, right? So I'm going to use these two things. I basically didn't think about this area at all outside of those two cases.
Either I'm tight, so I want to release things more. My back's bound up. I'm tight from a 12-hour plane flight or you follow and stuff. Or and I'm sore.
Either I'm tight, so I want to release things more. My back's bound up. I'm tight from a 12-hour plane flight or you follow and stuff. Or and I'm sore.
You just alluded to some of them now, but what are some of the other benefits that have been shown either scientifically that you're aware of or just you've seen in your clinical practice that we can get from, and we'll just keep calling it self-myofascial release or similar-ish things?
You just alluded to some of them now, but what are some of the other benefits that have been shown either scientifically that you're aware of or just you've seen in your clinical practice that we can get from, and we'll just keep calling it self-myofascial release or similar-ish things?
No, but there's a lot on actual strength and torque in this specific realm. So regardless of that other section, who cares? We know for sure, and it's been shown again many times at many angles, that this stuff will enhance acute force production.
No, but there's a lot on actual strength and torque in this specific realm. So regardless of that other section, who cares? We know for sure, and it's been shown again many times at many angles, that this stuff will enhance acute force production.
There you go. That's great. Yeah.
There you go. That's great. Yeah.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, of course.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, we get it.
Yeah, we get it.
Well, I'm sure we'll find that and hopefully put it in the show notes for you. But I can appreciate all this stuff because I didn't appreciate any of that before really coming across some of the stuff you were doing. And I know that the field is evolving. We're learning more. This is a particular area that I actually don't care that much about the molecular mechanisms. I'm interested in it.
Well, I'm sure we'll find that and hopefully put it in the show notes for you. But I can appreciate all this stuff because I didn't appreciate any of that before really coming across some of the stuff you were doing. And I know that the field is evolving. We're learning more. This is a particular area that I actually don't care that much about the molecular mechanisms. I'm interested in it.
I think it's really cool.
I think it's really cool.
I know. I know you are. But why I'm saying I almost don't care is I didn't care that this was working because it was repairing tissue damage inside a muscle or if this was a nervous system or if this was a connective. I didn't really care. What I cared about was I don't hurt as much anymore afterwards. Or I'm seeing this change. Is this helping me get better? It's interesting.
I know. I know you are. But why I'm saying I almost don't care is I didn't care that this was working because it was repairing tissue damage inside a muscle or if this was a nervous system or if this was a connective. I didn't really care. What I cared about was I don't hurt as much anymore afterwards. Or I'm seeing this change. Is this helping me get better? It's interesting.
Of course, the physiologists like to hear the things. We'll learn more about it. I'm sure the field will get more specific. You'll find different tools, different strategies, techniques work for better applications and outcomes and all that. But it's incredibly valuable, in my opinion, to have people like you who know the science and
Of course, the physiologists like to hear the things. We'll learn more about it. I'm sure the field will get more specific. You'll find different tools, different strategies, techniques work for better applications and outcomes and all that. But it's incredibly valuable, in my opinion, to have people like you who know the science and
based on where it stands now, we know the limitations, we know what we don't know, we know what's been shown to not work, but then you have on the other side of this equation, thousands of hours, years of experience with countless types of clientele, personally, with courses, with seminars, and you can really add context to saying, well, we've tried this and we've seen this and we've noticed this.
based on where it stands now, we know the limitations, we know what we don't know, we know what's been shown to not work, but then you have on the other side of this equation, thousands of hours, years of experience with countless types of clientele, personally, with courses, with seminars, and you can really add context to saying, well, we've tried this and we've seen this and we've noticed this.
So when you have a field like this, where the science is just is where it is, having that clinical experience is incredibly valuable. So I can't thank you enough for coming by today, sharing a ton of research, a ton of physiology, lots of personal anecdotes. I know that people, if they want to see direct examples, they can go and check out all your videos and your free things you put out there.
So when you have a field like this, where the science is just is where it is, having that clinical experience is incredibly valuable. So I can't thank you enough for coming by today, sharing a ton of research, a ton of physiology, lots of personal anecdotes. I know that people, if they want to see direct examples, they can go and check out all your videos and your free things you put out there.
And we'll link to all of that, of course. So thank you so much for all of that and all the years as well. And we really appreciate you coming by today.
And we'll link to all of that, of course. So thank you so much for all of that and all the years as well. And we really appreciate you coming by today.
Awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed today's discussion with Jill Miller as much as I did. To find direct links to the videos we referred to earlier, Jill's courses, seminars, products, and other services, please check out the links provided in the show notes. Thank you for joining for today's episode.
Awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed today's discussion with Jill Miller as much as I did. To find direct links to the videos we referred to earlier, Jill's courses, seminars, products, and other services, please check out the links provided in the show notes. Thank you for joining for today's episode.
My goal as always is to share exciting scientific insights that help you perform at your best. If the show resonates with you, and you want to help ensure this information remains free and accessible to anyone in the world, there are a few ways that you can support. First, you can subscribe to the show on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple.
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And never forget in the famous words of Bill Bowerman, if you have a body, you are an athlete.
And never forget in the famous words of Bill Bowerman, if you have a body, you are an athlete.
the science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life. Welcome to Perform. I'm Dr. Andy Galpin. I'm a professor and scientist and the executive director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University. Today, I'm going to be talking with my longtime friend, Dr. Mike Ormsby. Mike is a professor at Florida State University.
the science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life. Welcome to Perform. I'm Dr. Andy Galpin. I'm a professor and scientist and the executive director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University. Today, I'm going to be talking with my longtime friend, Dr. Mike Ormsby. Mike is a professor at Florida State University.
He is the director of the Institute of Sports Science and Medicine. Mike is a world-renowned expert in all things exercise physiology, supplementation, sports nutrition, and a whole host of other important and interesting topics that we'll get into in today's conversation. Mike has done a tremendous amount of work over the last 15 years, specifically in the area of pre-sleep nutrition.
He is the director of the Institute of Sports Science and Medicine. Mike is a world-renowned expert in all things exercise physiology, supplementation, sports nutrition, and a whole host of other important and interesting topics that we'll get into in today's conversation. Mike has done a tremendous amount of work over the last 15 years, specifically in the area of pre-sleep nutrition.
And I could promise you we're going to get into some things that are Mike's lifelong passion and career that are counterintuitive to what most people think about what to eat and what not to eat prior to sleep. In fact, I'll give you a little bit of a spoiler alert.
And I could promise you we're going to get into some things that are Mike's lifelong passion and career that are counterintuitive to what most people think about what to eat and what not to eat prior to sleep. In fact, I'll give you a little bit of a spoiler alert.
He has some pretty compelling evidence over multiple studies that eating specific items in specific amounts prior to sleep is advantageous for not only sleep and recovery, but multiple other things as well.
He has some pretty compelling evidence over multiple studies that eating specific items in specific amounts prior to sleep is advantageous for not only sleep and recovery, but multiple other things as well.
The conversation was wide-ranging, but we'll cover many other things like a handful of supplements that people have not heard of that have interesting implications for a wide variety of performance and health-related outcomes. And so it was a fascinating conversation. I learned a lot from it. I've known Mike for a long time. I've known his work for a long time.
The conversation was wide-ranging, but we'll cover many other things like a handful of supplements that people have not heard of that have interesting implications for a wide variety of performance and health-related outcomes. And so it was a fascinating conversation. I learned a lot from it. I've known Mike for a long time. I've known his work for a long time.
But there was a lot that I did not know about the work he's done and will be doing in the future. So here we go with Dr. Mike Ormsby. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. Dr. Mike Ormsby, thank you so much for coming out. I know it was a long trip this morning and I have a bunch of stuff I'm excited to talk to you about. But first, thank you so much for coming out.
But there was a lot that I did not know about the work he's done and will be doing in the future. So here we go with Dr. Mike Ormsby. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. Dr. Mike Ormsby, thank you so much for coming out. I know it was a long trip this morning and I have a bunch of stuff I'm excited to talk to you about. But first, thank you so much for coming out.
I love your research. I love a lot of the stuff that you've gotten into. So when we decided to officially have guests for Perform, I was like, Mike has got to be on the list and stoked to have you out here.
I love your research. I love a lot of the stuff that you've gotten into. So when we decided to officially have guests for Perform, I was like, Mike has got to be on the list and stoked to have you out here.
Fantastic, man. We're going to go to a lot of areas, but where I want to start is actually with ultra-endurance stuff. Sure. So you yourself, I know you played hockey and probably plenty of other sports, but then you not only have competed in various forms of ultras, and then you've done a lot of research in that.
Fantastic, man. We're going to go to a lot of areas, but where I want to start is actually with ultra-endurance stuff. Sure. So you yourself, I know you played hockey and probably plenty of other sports, but then you not only have competed in various forms of ultras, and then you've done a lot of research in that.
So tell me how you got into that background and then very specifically some of the studies you've done and the athletes you work with.
So tell me how you got into that background and then very specifically some of the studies you've done and the athletes you work with.
Well, I mean, context here a little bit. If everyone was to see your physique, they would probably not picture you as a triathlon kind of guy.
Well, I mean, context here a little bit. If everyone was to see your physique, they would probably not picture you as a triathlon kind of guy.
So I normally sit like— I don't believe 20 of that is muscle.
So I normally sit like— I don't believe 20 of that is muscle.
Now, I know that I'm assuming that led into why you did some of your work in your lab in these endurance. I'll call them ultras and tries and things like that. I know you've also done and still coach athletes in various of these sports.
Now, I know that I'm assuming that led into why you did some of your work in your lab in these endurance. I'll call them ultras and tries and things like that. I know you've also done and still coach athletes in various of these sports.
But before we get to that stuff, do you remember offhand any specific things you did, any food items or amounts or timings or fluids, supplements, anything that you took for your own personal performances that made you feel better? Yeah.
But before we get to that stuff, do you remember offhand any specific things you did, any food items or amounts or timings or fluids, supplements, anything that you took for your own personal performances that made you feel better? Yeah.
Typical but lower probably.
Typical but lower probably.
today's episode is sponsored by element element is an electrolyte drink mix that has an ideal electrolyte ratio of sodium potassium and magnesium but no sugar hydration is critical to performance both physical and mental performance countless studies have shown that even a slight degree of dehydration even as small as one percent can lead to decreases in physical output and mental performance.
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We also know that electrolytes are critical to proper hydration, which I've been harping on for years. But you can't do that, proper hydration, by only drinking water. You need to get the right amount of electrolytes in the right ratios, and that's why I'm a huge fan of Element.
We also know that electrolytes are critical to proper hydration, which I've been harping on for years. But you can't do that, proper hydration, by only drinking water. You need to get the right amount of electrolytes in the right ratios, and that's why I'm a huge fan of Element.
In fact, many of you will probably remember that I featured Element in my YouTube series on optimizing hydration nearly five years ago. I featured Element in these videos because their blend of 1,000 milligrams of sodium 200 milligrams potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium really is unique and different than any other electrolyte on the market, and it has great scientific support.
In fact, many of you will probably remember that I featured Element in my YouTube series on optimizing hydration nearly five years ago. I featured Element in these videos because their blend of 1,000 milligrams of sodium 200 milligrams potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium really is unique and different than any other electrolyte on the market, and it has great scientific support.
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I use Element constantly, particularly when I'm sweating a lot, and I routinely make it a part of my clients' optimization programs. If you'd like to try Element, you can go to drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free element sample pack with the purchase of any element drink mix. Again, that's drinklmnt.com slash perform to claim a free sample pack. Today's episode is also sponsored by 8sleep.
8sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, sleep tracking, and more. I've personally been sleeping on an 8sleep mattress cover for years now, and it's absolutely glorious. I love it so much that I hate traveling away from home because it means I can't sleep on my 8 Sleep Pod 4 Ultra.
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As you'll hear me talk about endlessly on this podcast, there really is nothing you can do that makes more of an impact on your health and performance than getting tremendous sleep. And getting great sleep requires having your body temperature drop a couple of degrees at night. And that's hard to do on your own. The 8 Sleep has been a game changer for me because I run hot at night.
As you'll hear me talk about endlessly on this podcast, there really is nothing you can do that makes more of an impact on your health and performance than getting tremendous sleep. And getting great sleep requires having your body temperature drop a couple of degrees at night. And that's hard to do on your own. The 8 Sleep has been a game changer for me because I run hot at night.
or as my wife calls it, I'm a furnace. If I don't have something like an 8Sleep helping me cool down, I'll wake up in the middle of the night overheating and not feeling great. This is something I've also found in many of the people that I coach, especially those who are really physically active. The 8Sleep Pod 4 Ultra has two times more cooling power, yet is virtually silent.
or as my wife calls it, I'm a furnace. If I don't have something like an 8Sleep helping me cool down, I'll wake up in the middle of the night overheating and not feeling great. This is something I've also found in many of the people that I coach, especially those who are really physically active. The 8Sleep Pod 4 Ultra has two times more cooling power, yet is virtually silent.
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and it has high-fidelity sleep tracking, and even has snoring detection that'll automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve airflow and stop your snoring. If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, go to eightsleep.com slash perform to save $350 off your Pod 4 Ultra. Eight Sleep currently ships to the US, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU, and even Australia.
Again, that's eightsleep.com slash perform. I want to transition from there and talk about one of the areas you're probably most famous for, and that is nutrition prior to sleep. And it has stunned me that despite you talking about this and working in this area for 15 plus years, I don't know how many publications you have on this, but it's not a small amount.
Again, that's eightsleep.com slash perform. I want to transition from there and talk about one of the areas you're probably most famous for, and that is nutrition prior to sleep. And it has stunned me that despite you talking about this and working in this area for 15 plus years, I don't know how many publications you have on this, but it's not a small amount.
And very few people have either heard this or put it into practice. I'm really shocked because of how effective, how well-rounded this has been shown, how many different populations you've done this with. And again, people somehow completely either don't talk about it or they give the exact opposite advice. So on the spot right now, tell me exactly what I should be eating prior to bed.
And very few people have either heard this or put it into practice. I'm really shocked because of how effective, how well-rounded this has been shown, how many different populations you've done this with. And again, people somehow completely either don't talk about it or they give the exact opposite advice. So on the spot right now, tell me exactly what I should be eating prior to bed.
And I'm being a little bit facetious there. So take this where you want.
And I'm being a little bit facetious there. So take this where you want.
Okay. So what you're suggesting is about most of your studies have been 30 minutes, right? So 30 minutes prior to going to sleep, 40-gram bolus. And why on earth would I do that?
Okay. So what you're suggesting is about most of your studies have been 30 minutes, right? So 30 minutes prior to going to sleep, 40-gram bolus. And why on earth would I do that?
And how does it not hurt my sleep?
And how does it not hurt my sleep?
I remember many days of having pre-made protein shakes in the bathroom. So not only if you woke up, but I remember setting an alarm to make sure that I woke up, smashed the protein shake and went back. And people constantly did this. This was a very common thing.
I remember many days of having pre-made protein shakes in the bathroom. So not only if you woke up, but I remember setting an alarm to make sure that I woke up, smashed the protein shake and went back. And people constantly did this. This was a very common thing.
So perhaps those that are a little bit less versed in science would be taking that study and saying, OK, therefore, you'll be better metabolically by having your calories earlier in the day.
So perhaps those that are a little bit less versed in science would be taking that study and saying, OK, therefore, you'll be better metabolically by having your calories earlier in the day.
So this is where that whole story started. That's where it all started, 1993.
So this is where that whole story started. That's where it all started, 1993.
So you'll be less metabolically healthy. You'll make worse choices. You'll probably overeat.
So you'll be less metabolically healthy. You'll make worse choices. You'll probably overeat.
This is why meatheads need to be in science. This is a meathead thing.
This is why meatheads need to be in science. This is a meathead thing.
So not that you're burning more or less calories, but the percentage of your calories coming from fat. Correct. Versus carbohydrates. Exactly. That's RQ, RER, same thing.
So not that you're burning more or less calories, but the percentage of your calories coming from fat. Correct. Versus carbohydrates. Exactly. That's RQ, RER, same thing.
Sure, sure.
Sure, sure.
As you were saying that, I was in my head going, okay, okay, okay. So many problems. I got the comments section. I got you guys.
As you were saying that, I was in my head going, okay, okay, okay. So many problems. I got the comments section. I got you guys.
I visited his lab a couple of times a long time ago, but a ton of great work over the years.
I visited his lab a couple of times a long time ago, but a ton of great work over the years.
And you eventually drug him down to hang out with you in Florida State.
And you eventually drug him down to hang out with you in Florida State.
Walk us through what that is really quickly. Yeah. It's exactly what it sounds like, but –
Walk us through what that is really quickly. Yeah. It's exactly what it sounds like, but –
Right. So what you're doing is you're putting a small needle in somebody's belly fat so you can measure exactly how much fat is being burned. The other way to do it is you collect the gases that they're breathing out of their mouth.
Right. So what you're doing is you're putting a small needle in somebody's belly fat so you can measure exactly how much fat is being burned. The other way to do it is you collect the gases that they're breathing out of their mouth.
Really quickly, What does glycerol have to do with fat?
Really quickly, What does glycerol have to do with fat?
Right. So what you're able to look at is directly from the tissue, whereas if you're on a metabolic cart and measuring gases, it still sounds and feels like you're measuring fat burning. But as you said earlier, you're not. One is measuring the entire body.
Right. So what you're able to look at is directly from the tissue, whereas if you're on a metabolic cart and measuring gases, it still sounds and feels like you're measuring fat burning. But as you said earlier, you're not. One is measuring the entire body.
and how much actual carbon dioxide you're breathing out and what you're measuring directly is how much and if you're not familiar with this is lipolysis this is the breakdown of fat and you mentioned this quickly but really making sure folks don't miss it fat burning And fat loss and fat oxidation are not necessarily the same thing. They sound similar.
and how much actual carbon dioxide you're breathing out and what you're measuring directly is how much and if you're not familiar with this is lipolysis this is the breakdown of fat and you mentioned this quickly but really making sure folks don't miss it fat burning And fat loss and fat oxidation are not necessarily the same thing. They sound similar.
This is where we can get lost in science a little bit. But it's really important if you're going to make a claim about what happens to somebody's fat burning with, in your case, what you eat before bed. measuring directly in the tissue itself is going to give you a significantly different answer than measuring a resting metabolic rate or on a car or something like that.
This is where we can get lost in science a little bit. But it's really important if you're going to make a claim about what happens to somebody's fat burning with, in your case, what you eat before bed. measuring directly in the tissue itself is going to give you a significantly different answer than measuring a resting metabolic rate or on a car or something like that.
So to tie that together, if the 1993 paper held true and – the follow-up paper held true and eating before bed was going to make you fatter. What you should have saw in your study is you should have saw the rate of lipolysis go down. You should have seen less fat burning. We're going to refer to it like that.
So to tie that together, if the 1993 paper held true and – the follow-up paper held true and eating before bed was going to make you fatter. What you should have saw in your study is you should have saw the rate of lipolysis go down. You should have seen less fat burning. We're going to refer to it like that.
But when you saw that it didn't go down, it stayed the same, this is actually the powerful conclusion that that meal you had before bed did not make you fatter and did not at all alter your fat-burning either ability overall or the rate at which you're doing it. Correct.
But when you saw that it didn't go down, it stayed the same, this is actually the powerful conclusion that that meal you had before bed did not make you fatter and did not at all alter your fat-burning either ability overall or the rate at which you're doing it. Correct.
I have had that scenario with totally different topics multiple times in my lab with my students where they come in freaking out. My thesis didn't work. My dissertation failed. And you have to really step back and say, what is the data telling me? In your particular case, it was potentially, and one would argue, more powerful, the fact that it wasn't different.
I have had that scenario with totally different topics multiple times in my lab with my students where they come in freaking out. My thesis didn't work. My dissertation failed. And you have to really step back and say, what is the data telling me? In your particular case, it was potentially, and one would argue, more powerful, the fact that it wasn't different.
I hope they're all citing your papers every time.
I hope they're all citing your papers every time.
Yeah, instead of just looking at muscle protein synthesis. Yeah, not just the marker. We're looking at the actual outcome. Did you actually get bigger muscle?
Yeah, instead of just looking at muscle protein synthesis. Yeah, not just the marker. We're looking at the actual outcome. Did you actually get bigger muscle?
So you said quickly a second ago 0.8 grams per kg is the recommended. You mean as in what you recommend or in? No, no, no, no.
So you said quickly a second ago 0.8 grams per kg is the recommended. You mean as in what you recommend or in? No, no, no, no.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're rough.
They're rough.
A typical 1,000 calories? Yeah.
A typical 1,000 calories? Yeah.
800.
800.
We'll just call it the same thing for now.
We'll just call it the same thing for now.
So translation, the group that didn't lift?
So translation, the group that didn't lift?
You will see regularly strength training for folks that are trying to lose weight and to keep it off for a long time. So you said the retention recidivism of that body composition. Yeah.
You will see regularly strength training for folks that are trying to lose weight and to keep it off for a long time. So you said the retention recidivism of that body composition. Yeah.
you can't make a strong argument that strength training burns us ton of calories we were talking about that before we started going like that's not your way to go one could even argue then or people have used that argument then as a fodder to say that hey exercise doesn't help you lose weight completely ridiculous of course but from a strictly caloric expenditure perspective it's not very high however if you look at that side of the equation
you can't make a strong argument that strength training burns us ton of calories we were talking about that before we started going like that's not your way to go one could even argue then or people have used that argument then as a fodder to say that hey exercise doesn't help you lose weight completely ridiculous of course but from a strictly caloric expenditure perspective it's not very high however if you look at that side of the equation
Who holds more muscle mass? And then because of that, the associations between strength training and successful long-term and permanent weight loss is really, really high. And we've seen this from a bunch of different lines of research. That paper specifically, I think, just absolutely crushed that conversation.
Who holds more muscle mass? And then because of that, the associations between strength training and successful long-term and permanent weight loss is really, really high. And we've seen this from a bunch of different lines of research. That paper specifically, I think, just absolutely crushed that conversation.
If you want to lose weight and keep it off, strength training is a very, very, very good idea if you want that to last for a long time. Not going to be the thing that burns you your calories right now, but it's the thing that is going to arguably lead to longer-term success.
If you want to lose weight and keep it off, strength training is a very, very, very good idea if you want that to last for a long time. Not going to be the thing that burns you your calories right now, but it's the thing that is going to arguably lead to longer-term success.
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Today's episode is sponsored by Momentous. Momentous makes the highest quality supplements on the market, period. Many of you know me and you know that I do not trust the vast majority of supplement companies and for good reason. Many studies have shown that anywhere between 10 to up to 40% of supplements have accidental contaminants. intentional alterations, mislabeling, or other serious issues.
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Again, that's livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off. One of the things that is tough for folks not in science to understand often is how is the same response going from kind of low to medium, not the same as going from medium to high or high to ultra high and things like that. Like we see that physiologically consistently.
Again, that's livemomentus.com slash perform to get 20% off. One of the things that is tough for folks not in science to understand often is how is the same response going from kind of low to medium, not the same as going from medium to high or high to ultra high and things like that. Like we see that physiologically consistently.
So you're mentioning, I think Luke's study had a couple of different groups and neither one of them, are what we would call maxed out on their protein. So neither one was at 2.2 grams per kilogram, which is what you said you personally recommend, right?
So you're mentioning, I think Luke's study had a couple of different groups and neither one of them, are what we would call maxed out on their protein. So neither one was at 2.2 grams per kilogram, which is what you said you personally recommend, right?
So what's important to understand, if you take somebody who's probably on a more traditional protein diet, 0.4, 0.5 maybe, and you increase that person to one, is that going to be the same response if you take somebody who's at 2.2 already and take them to 2.5?
So what's important to understand, if you take somebody who's probably on a more traditional protein diet, 0.4, 0.5 maybe, and you increase that person to one, is that going to be the same response if you take somebody who's at 2.2 already and take them to 2.5?
In this case, protein requirements, right?
In this case, protein requirements, right?
Yeah, figure out your fueling of your carbohydrates and your fat based on how many calories you need, but keep the total amount of protein there as close as you can.
Yeah, figure out your fueling of your carbohydrates and your fat based on how many calories you need, but keep the total amount of protein there as close as you can.
So when we kind of come back to the end of where we're at now, 15 years of research on protein, well, all nutrients prior to sleep, pre-sleep feeding. Yeah.
So when we kind of come back to the end of where we're at now, 15 years of research on protein, well, all nutrients prior to sleep, pre-sleep feeding. Yeah.
When we look at what Luke's group has shown collectively and what your group has shown, let me see if I can summarize this and correct me, potentially a benefit to muscle protein synthesis, which would potentially increase actual muscle growth, actual muscle strength. Now, that's probably going to have the biggest impact if your protein intake is moderate to low. Right. Right.
When we look at what Luke's group has shown collectively and what your group has shown, let me see if I can summarize this and correct me, potentially a benefit to muscle protein synthesis, which would potentially increase actual muscle growth, actual muscle strength. Now, that's probably going to have the biggest impact if your protein intake is moderate to low. Right. Right.
And this is where going from 0.4, 0.5 up to 1.2 or 1.5, we're getting closer to 1.6. And Luke and yourself have said, all we're doing here is there's nothing magic. There's nothing special. There's no growth hormone release. It's not a test. It's just the fact that you're getting another opportunity to eat and hit your protein mark. Yeah, no doubt.
And this is where going from 0.4, 0.5 up to 1.2 or 1.5, we're getting closer to 1.6. And Luke and yourself have said, all we're doing here is there's nothing magic. There's nothing special. There's no growth hormone release. It's not a test. It's just the fact that you're getting another opportunity to eat and hit your protein mark. Yeah, no doubt.
If you're already at those markers, though, you're already at one gram per pound or 2.2, then that pre-sleep additional protein may or probably won't add any additional to just leukocyte, the muscle protein.
If you're already at those markers, though, you're already at one gram per pound or 2.2, then that pre-sleep additional protein may or probably won't add any additional to just leukocyte, the muscle protein.
Did I summarize that?
Did I summarize that?
Yeah, great. So let's finish that, Luke, and we'll talk muscle growth sort of later. Your area is more interesting to me right now, which is, in addition to that, though, you can do that while not compromising. fat burning. So you're going to potentially gain some muscle there, and then you're not going to there. So I have a handful of questions here. Specifically, I want to get into details.
Yeah, great. So let's finish that, Luke, and we'll talk muscle growth sort of later. Your area is more interesting to me right now, which is, in addition to that, though, you can do that while not compromising. fat burning. So you're going to potentially gain some muscle there, and then you're not going to there. So I have a handful of questions here. Specifically, I want to get into details.
What type of protein? What other stuff? What populations? Does this work in men and women, young and old? I want to get into other areas of, like I said, age. And then finally, one thing we actually haven't really talked about is you have said it doesn't hurt fat burning. Does it do anything good?
What type of protein? What other stuff? What populations? Does this work in men and women, young and old? I want to get into other areas of, like I said, age. And then finally, one thing we actually haven't really talked about is you have said it doesn't hurt fat burning. Does it do anything good?
Do we have any data that suggests it does anything positive besides maybe helping me hit my protein goal? So a number of things I'm going to run you through here. Take me whichever one you want to start there, and I want to make sure you don't miss any.
Do we have any data that suggests it does anything positive besides maybe helping me hit my protein goal? So a number of things I'm going to run you through here. Take me whichever one you want to start there, and I want to make sure you don't miss any.
It's the only chance we have. Yes.
It's the only chance we have. Yes.
I work with athletes in virtually every sport in America. They almost all compete at night.
I work with athletes in virtually every sport in America. They almost all compete at night.
That's what I'm saying. Tell me the benefits here. What good am I going to get out of this? You haven't sold me yet, Mike.
That's what I'm saying. Tell me the benefits here. What good am I going to get out of this? You haven't sold me yet, Mike.
Oh, I noticed that. Yeah.
Oh, I noticed that. Yeah.
This is a standard metric a lot of sports performance teams will do as a test of daily readiness performance. So it's not an uncommon test for them. They're probably doing it multiple times a week the entire season anyways, I'm sure.
This is a standard metric a lot of sports performance teams will do as a test of daily readiness performance. So it's not an uncommon test for them. They're probably doing it multiple times a week the entire season anyways, I'm sure.
Yep.
Yep.
This is why it's so important. so important for students to read all the papers and organize them somehow. I'm sure you do this a different way than I do. This is the least interesting thing ever for people who are not scientists, but I can't pass this opportunity, right? You have these things in an Excel file. You have them and you have every variable you can in there.
This is why it's so important. so important for students to read all the papers and organize them somehow. I'm sure you do this a different way than I do. This is the least interesting thing ever for people who are not scientists, but I can't pass this opportunity, right? You have these things in an Excel file. You have them and you have every variable you can in there.
And I promise you, you open that Excel sheet up and you will see massive patterns going on. Every breakthrough I've had, every great idea I've done scientifically has become possible because it's that exact thing. You notice a trend, you're like, oh my gosh, four studies, seven studies, nine studies.
And I promise you, you open that Excel sheet up and you will see massive patterns going on. Every breakthrough I've had, every great idea I've done scientifically has become possible because it's that exact thing. You notice a trend, you're like, oh my gosh, four studies, seven studies, nine studies.
And oftentimes it lines up and that's where you can actually see things that you will never be able to notice that in a single study. You have to have a command in the literature. So kudos to you and your doc student for doing that. And that's really interesting.
And oftentimes it lines up and that's where you can actually see things that you will never be able to notice that in a single study. You have to have a command in the literature. So kudos to you and your doc student for doing that. And that's really interesting.
Well, we took a protocol that— You get them as sore as possible on purpose. And we did.
Well, we took a protocol that— You get them as sore as possible on purpose. And we did.
Yeah. Is this on a dynamometer too? So you're controlling? Yeah. This is a machine that's going to hook your legs up and force them. You can control the force output. So they can't.
Yeah. Is this on a dynamometer too? So you're controlling? Yeah. This is a machine that's going to hook your legs up and force them. You can control the force output. So they can't.
You gave them all their meals. All their meals.
You gave them all their meals. All their meals.
But that's a lot more control than most would do.
But that's a lot more control than most would do.
To answer the question you're trying to answer, that's how you deserve it.
To answer the question you're trying to answer, that's how you deserve it.
While we're here, let me linger on this. I know you don't know the answer because you haven't done these studies yet. But if you were to guess right now, then for most people, if they're trying to get the performance benefits you talked about earlier, potentially the muscle growth, I know that the recovery didn't matter in this, let's say, frankly, pretty abnormal training protocol. Okay, fine.
While we're here, let me linger on this. I know you don't know the answer because you haven't done these studies yet. But if you were to guess right now, then for most people, if they're trying to get the performance benefits you talked about earlier, potentially the muscle growth, I know that the recovery didn't matter in this, let's say, frankly, pretty abnormal training protocol. Okay, fine.
Do you think it's going to matter if someone has not only protein type, whey or casein, or even food type? So if they have to have a protein shake, can they have cottage cheese or yogurt? What would you guess?
Do you think it's going to matter if someone has not only protein type, whey or casein, or even food type? So if they have to have a protein shake, can they have cottage cheese or yogurt? What would you guess?
Our entire childhoods, we've been told casein is a slower-releasing one. That's the one to take before bed.
Our entire childhoods, we've been told casein is a slower-releasing one. That's the one to take before bed.
Yep. In any of the ways that you can measure protein synthesis directly out of muscle.
Yep. In any of the ways that you can measure protein synthesis directly out of muscle.
Yeah. That's just world-leading.
Yeah. That's just world-leading.
It doesn't seem to matter protein type. It doesn't seem to matter whole food or supplementation. You've mentioned this a little in passing, but I want to be really clear here. You've done the assessment on men. and women. You've done it in folks with obesity, folks that are young and well-trained, or you or other groups have done this. I'm going to kind of summarize the whole field here.
It doesn't seem to matter protein type. It doesn't seem to matter whole food or supplementation. You've mentioned this a little in passing, but I want to be really clear here. You've done the assessment on men. and women. You've done it in folks with obesity, folks that are young and well-trained, or you or other groups have done this. I'm going to kind of summarize the whole field here.
It's been done in young 20, 25-year-old college age folks, middle-aged. Has it been done in older populations, like 60 plus? 70 plus. 70 plus. Any reason to think this answer changes with any of those demographics, or is it generally consistently saying the same thing?
It's been done in young 20, 25-year-old college age folks, middle-aged. Has it been done in older populations, like 60 plus? 70 plus. 70 plus. Any reason to think this answer changes with any of those demographics, or is it generally consistently saying the same thing?
I'm sure there might be a study here and there that's slightly different.
I'm sure there might be a study here and there that's slightly different.
We can help you on that sleep front. Yeah. Let's go. There's a lot better ways to do that.
We can help you on that sleep front. Yeah. Let's go. There's a lot better ways to do that.
Is this breaking? Are you putting it on? This is the first one.
Is this breaking? Are you putting it on? This is the first one.
Okay. I think we're kind of winding this story down. A couple of things I want to clarify. You've also mentioned ad nauseum. At this point, there is no reason to think a meal like this should interfere with sleep. Of course, if the individual person upsets their stomach, gives them acid reflux or something, then stay away from that.
Okay. I think we're kind of winding this story down. A couple of things I want to clarify. You've also mentioned ad nauseum. At this point, there is no reason to think a meal like this should interfere with sleep. Of course, if the individual person upsets their stomach, gives them acid reflux or something, then stay away from that.
Folks, you don't have to fill the whole shaker with water.
Folks, you don't have to fill the whole shaker with water.
You can fill eight ounces and shake a little bit.
You can fill eight ounces and shake a little bit.
Okay, perfect. Perfect.
Okay, perfect. Perfect.
Okay, I got three final short follow-ups to this one, but you led me perfectly into here. I think I know the answer based on what you just said, but at this point, is it something special about protein? You actually said your first study was protein, it was carbohydrate, and it was multiple forms of protein. And you saw no difference between the carbohydrate and the protein.
Okay, I got three final short follow-ups to this one, but you led me perfectly into here. I think I know the answer based on what you just said, but at this point, is it something special about protein? You actually said your first study was protein, it was carbohydrate, and it was multiple forms of protein. And you saw no difference between the carbohydrate and the protein.
for the most part, in those measures that you had, right? Do you think it is the protein or is it going to just simply be the fact that it is a small, in your case, easily digestible? You have pre-powdered, small amounts, easy to get through your stomach foods. If you had to guess right now, it's going to be clearly a combination of these.
for the most part, in those measures that you had, right? Do you think it is the protein or is it going to just simply be the fact that it is a small, in your case, easily digestible? You have pre-powdered, small amounts, easy to get through your stomach foods. If you had to guess right now, it's going to be clearly a combination of these.
But is it the protein or is it the meal size and digestibility?
But is it the protein or is it the meal size and digestibility?
Tell me the answer to your new study that you haven't done yet.
Tell me the answer to your new study that you haven't done yet.
I would bet a lot on that.
I would bet a lot on that.
Simply coming from it.
Simply coming from it.
Because I can tell you right now, having done this a lot, if you give people an easily digestible carbohydrate, high fiber, an easily digestible protein under a total amount of volume and calories, probably 300 or so, You rarely have sleep issues. In fact, many, many times you'll see enhanced sleep. And the biggest things you'll see is the next morning inertia.
Because I can tell you right now, having done this a lot, if you give people an easily digestible carbohydrate, high fiber, an easily digestible protein under a total amount of volume and calories, probably 300 or so, You rarely have sleep issues. In fact, many, many times you'll see enhanced sleep. And the biggest things you'll see is the next morning inertia.
So the grogginess you feel when you wake up the next morning is oftentimes improved. Not in every single person, but rarely have we seen that hurt people. Exceptionally, again, I get a little heartburn from it, things like that. My stomach felt like a rock. Okay, fine. But you have very small meals like that. I know where I would put my money.
So the grogginess you feel when you wake up the next morning is oftentimes improved. Not in every single person, but rarely have we seen that hurt people. Exceptionally, again, I get a little heartburn from it, things like that. My stomach felt like a rock. Okay, fine. But you have very small meals like that. I know where I would put my money.
I don't know what your data is going to find, but I think you're onto something there.
I don't know what your data is going to find, but I think you're onto something there.
Pre-post teeth brushing. Yeah. Yeah, not my area. Okay, last little one, and then I want to make sure we wrap this thing here. Have you guys actually looked at this? in either a calorie-controlled throughout the day fashion or a specifically non-calorie-controlled for long-term fat loss. So, okay, I get it. You sold me. I might recover better. I might grow some more muscle.
Pre-post teeth brushing. Yeah. Yeah, not my area. Okay, last little one, and then I want to make sure we wrap this thing here. Have you guys actually looked at this? in either a calorie-controlled throughout the day fashion or a specifically non-calorie-controlled for long-term fat loss. So, okay, I get it. You sold me. I might recover better. I might grow some more muscle.
And my fat oxidation rate the next morning maybe won't change. Okay, you sold me. I won't hurt my sleep, blah, blah, blah. But am I going to lose more fat today? Am I going to gain more fat? What do we know about 8, 10, 12 weeks long?
And my fat oxidation rate the next morning maybe won't change. Okay, you sold me. I won't hurt my sleep, blah, blah, blah. But am I going to lose more fat today? Am I going to gain more fat? What do we know about 8, 10, 12 weeks long?
Okay.
Okay.
Okay. So would this be fair to characterize the entire field, both your work and others, as best we know it now? Seems to be pretty ubiquitous in terms of the groups, the population, it won't matter, post-menopause, pre-menopause, young, old, so on and so forth. The type of protein perhaps doesn't matter in that.
Okay. So would this be fair to characterize the entire field, both your work and others, as best we know it now? Seems to be pretty ubiquitous in terms of the groups, the population, it won't matter, post-menopause, pre-menopause, young, old, so on and so forth. The type of protein perhaps doesn't matter in that.
If you're already hitting your protein targets, then this is not going to potentially have any massive benefit, but it doesn't seem like it's going to harm much Either if you're already doing it, probably okay. If you're already not doing it, You don't necessarily need to go add this as long as you're hitting your total protein throughout the day.
If you're already hitting your protein targets, then this is not going to potentially have any massive benefit, but it doesn't seem like it's going to harm much Either if you're already doing it, probably okay. If you're already not doing it, You don't necessarily need to go add this as long as you're hitting your total protein throughout the day.
So this is not anything miraculous, but it is just another option, and it is perhaps most importantly something people shouldn't be afraid of.
So this is not anything miraculous, but it is just another option, and it is perhaps most importantly something people shouldn't be afraid of.
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Well, thank you for giving such a fantastic breakdown of your 15 years of work in the area of pre-sleep and probably most importantly, justifying my, what is basically a nightly routine now, especially when I'm on the road of, I absolutely smash a David Barr. Before bed, all the time. Literally never stop on the road. It's like dessert sort of thing for me, but I feel justified.
Well, thank you for giving such a fantastic breakdown of your 15 years of work in the area of pre-sleep and probably most importantly, justifying my, what is basically a nightly routine now, especially when I'm on the road of, I absolutely smash a David Barr. Before bed, all the time. Literally never stop on the road. It's like dessert sort of thing for me, but I feel justified.
And what I'm hearing you say is there's zero problem with that, so I can continue that habit. You got it from me. Appreciate it. I want to transition from protein and talk a little bit more about carbohydrate. You've done a lot of work in this area as well, and there are perhaps... more things we can learn here that are counter to what other folks have talked about or seen in the past.
And what I'm hearing you say is there's zero problem with that, so I can continue that habit. You got it from me. Appreciate it. I want to transition from protein and talk a little bit more about carbohydrate. You've done a lot of work in this area as well, and there are perhaps... more things we can learn here that are counter to what other folks have talked about or seen in the past.
So walk us through some of the stuff you've done on specifically these resistant starches in your lab.
So walk us through some of the stuff you've done on specifically these resistant starches in your lab.
Isn't that the best?
Isn't that the best?
Right. This is the heat it up, let it cool back down. Yes.
Right. This is the heat it up, let it cool back down. Yes.
Oh, so it's a different problem than breaking down carbohydrate. Correct. You can't store it at all. Different enzymatic problem. Yes. Still genetic, I'm assuming. Absolutely. Okay.
Oh, so it's a different problem than breaking down carbohydrate. Correct. You can't store it at all. Different enzymatic problem. Yes. Still genetic, I'm assuming. Absolutely. Okay.
More.
More.
And this is subjective reporting of cramping.
And this is subjective reporting of cramping.
So you got the worst of both cases here.
So you got the worst of both cases here.
Well, you're giving this in the form of liquid shake. Yeah, liquid shake.
Well, you're giving this in the form of liquid shake. Yeah, liquid shake.
In that front. The only reason I'm saying that is I've taken a lot of resisted starches. In various forms. I've never noticed a first time or learned effect.
In that front. The only reason I'm saying that is I've taken a lot of resisted starches. In various forms. I've never noticed a first time or learned effect.
Sure. Yeah. Possible. Good scientist you are.
Sure. Yeah. Possible. Good scientist you are.
And I thought – I thought we were done here.
And I thought – I thought we were done here.
Were those calorie match protocols? Yeah. OK. So you're just switching it out.
Were those calorie match protocols? Yeah. OK. So you're just switching it out.
What did you switch it out for?
What did you switch it out for?
What was the regular carbohydrate?
What was the regular carbohydrate?
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it certainly indicates there's something physiologically happening. There's something happening. It's still going on in there, right? You still enhanced it. If you were to simply ingest carbohydrate right now, Your carbohydrate burning goes up, right? Exactly.
Well, it certainly indicates there's something physiologically happening. There's something happening. It's still going on in there, right? You still enhanced it. If you were to simply ingest carbohydrate right now, Your carbohydrate burning goes up, right? Exactly.
This is the whole premise behind why many folks got it wrong in saying, well, these higher fat diets or eating more fat helps you burn more fat. Anything does. If you eat more protein right now, you burn more protein right now, right? You need more carbohydrate. But the fact that it lasted overnight indicates that the next morning the sugar water wasn't still around, but the starch was.
This is the whole premise behind why many folks got it wrong in saying, well, these higher fat diets or eating more fat helps you burn more fat. Anything does. If you eat more protein right now, you burn more protein right now, right? You need more carbohydrate. But the fact that it lasted overnight indicates that the next morning the sugar water wasn't still around, but the starch was.
Yeah, so by default then you would have probably lowered fat oxidation.
Yeah, so by default then you would have probably lowered fat oxidation.
One of the things that I appreciate so much about not only the conversation we're having but your research line in general, is you're not only a scientist, but as I mentioned at the beginning, you've run these races. You're an educator. You have courses on this. In fact, I think I mentioned at the beginning that Florida State Educator of the Year, I know, is on your resume as an award.
One of the things that I appreciate so much about not only the conversation we're having but your research line in general, is you're not only a scientist, but as I mentioned at the beginning, you've run these races. You're an educator. You have courses on this. In fact, I think I mentioned at the beginning that Florida State Educator of the Year, I know, is on your resume as an award.
You're putting these things into practice. You have the literal textbook in the field. You wrote the textbook in exercise physiology. And it's so clear that when you go after one of these studies, you don't just stop. When you're on here, when you're having these conversations, you're not just saying, okay, this is our answer. Because you know if you change one variable, maybe it changes.
You're putting these things into practice. You have the literal textbook in the field. You wrote the textbook in exercise physiology. And it's so clear that when you go after one of these studies, you don't just stop. When you're on here, when you're having these conversations, you're not just saying, okay, this is our answer. Because you know if you change one variable, maybe it changes.
And why I'm bringing this up now is you just reminded me that as you said, well, maybe we had the wrong dose. Maybe it was the wrong time. Maybe it was the wrong combination. Maybe it was the wrong person. that's a really hard skill and you rarely hear scientists talk like that because they want to have a capture of an area and they want to have clear answers.
And why I'm bringing this up now is you just reminded me that as you said, well, maybe we had the wrong dose. Maybe it was the wrong time. Maybe it was the wrong combination. Maybe it was the wrong person. that's a really hard skill and you rarely hear scientists talk like that because they want to have a capture of an area and they want to have clear answers.
The world wants a clear answer, but in, because you're such a practitioner, you know, that's not really how it works. So I really appreciate that about your perspective, the way that you teach and the way you run your lab, because you're doing 10, 15 years of, Of the same kind of study with multiple barriers changed out to understand the real answer there.
The world wants a clear answer, but in, because you're such a practitioner, you know, that's not really how it works. So I really appreciate that about your perspective, the way that you teach and the way you run your lab, because you're doing 10, 15 years of, Of the same kind of study with multiple barriers changed out to understand the real answer there.
This is not going to influence your funding. This is not going to get you promoted or bring more money. It's really honestly, I'm jumping into your brain a little bit here, but you're generally trying to answer the question and you know that there's real life, there's multiple aspects involved. There's just trade-offs. There's not simple answers.
This is not going to influence your funding. This is not going to get you promoted or bring more money. It's really honestly, I'm jumping into your brain a little bit here, but you're generally trying to answer the question and you know that there's real life, there's multiple aspects involved. There's just trade-offs. There's not simple answers.
So another compliment coming your way for your approach.
So another compliment coming your way for your approach.
Yeah, man, there's love for being in the basement. I get it. Like some of my fonder memories. I had a lot of years there. Yeah, but having dealt with that for most of my career and now having the exact opposite at Parker. I get it, man. Having nice facilities and being able to do stuff, it changes everything. Yeah.
Yeah, man, there's love for being in the basement. I get it. Like some of my fonder memories. I had a lot of years there. Yeah, but having dealt with that for most of my career and now having the exact opposite at Parker. I get it, man. Having nice facilities and being able to do stuff, it changes everything. Yeah.
So the Yukon, the superstarch didn't do much in, what, four studies you did in that area? Three, yeah. Three different studies. I have personally used resistance starches. Mostly, candidly, I've pretty much used Vitargo for the most part, which is a slightly different – But similar concept here with a lot of success in totally different applications and totally different scenarios than you.
So the Yukon, the superstarch didn't do much in, what, four studies you did in that area? Three, yeah. Three different studies. I have personally used resistance starches. Mostly, candidly, I've pretty much used Vitargo for the most part, which is a slightly different – But similar concept here with a lot of success in totally different applications and totally different scenarios than you.
So I think perhaps, I don't know, are you going to continue that research line or you feel like you got that answer solved?
So I think perhaps, I don't know, are you going to continue that research line or you feel like you got that answer solved?
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
I'm sure you have plenty of questions about that. The post-extreme caloric restriction, so weight cutting scenarios in different sports we've used it in, as a very fast recharge, if you will, as a part, it's not your first line. But many different scenarios, other extreme, I'll just say scenarios folks are in where fuel is going to be very limited and unpredictable. And these can be benefits.
I'm sure you have plenty of questions about that. The post-extreme caloric restriction, so weight cutting scenarios in different sports we've used it in, as a very fast recharge, if you will, as a part, it's not your first line. But many different scenarios, other extreme, I'll just say scenarios folks are in where fuel is going to be very limited and unpredictable. And these can be benefits.
But I would agree. I would love to see you and Vitargo, I guess, kind of contact Mike and maybe you guys can come up with some cool stuff. But more work for sure is needed in that area.
But I would agree. I would love to see you and Vitargo, I guess, kind of contact Mike and maybe you guys can come up with some cool stuff. But more work for sure is needed in that area.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is the beauty of how our field works. You said this just a few minutes ago. Clinical influences the science. The science sometimes influences the clinical. So you have a lot of clinicians and athletes and folks making comments. And great, let's bring it to the lab. Let's see.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is the beauty of how our field works. You said this just a few minutes ago. Clinical influences the science. The science sometimes influences the clinical. So you have a lot of clinicians and athletes and folks making comments. And great, let's bring it to the lab. Let's see.
And that's not to ruin it, to end it, to say it doesn't work, but it's simply to say maybe it doesn't do A, B, and C.
And that's not to ruin it, to end it, to say it doesn't work, but it's simply to say maybe it doesn't do A, B, and C.
Yeah, 100%. So we went from protein, we went to carbohydrate. Let's go on actually to a little bit of a different macronutrient-ish, collagen. I know you've done work in this area. In fact, you were telling me earlier, I didn't realize this, but your one study was the longest ever study done in collagen. Is that right? In humans, of course. Yeah, nine months. So there's a lot going on.
Yeah, 100%. So we went from protein, we went to carbohydrate. Let's go on actually to a little bit of a different macronutrient-ish, collagen. I know you've done work in this area. In fact, you were telling me earlier, I didn't realize this, but your one study was the longest ever study done in collagen. Is that right? In humans, of course. Yeah, nine months. So there's a lot going on.
And I'll actually be honest, my answer has changed. On collagen, probably in the last 9 to 12 months. I know, I remember, and I'll save names here, but people have been talking about collagen specifically for soft tissue injury. And work there initially came, of course, out of animal, mice, and urine models, and other things.
And I'll actually be honest, my answer has changed. On collagen, probably in the last 9 to 12 months. I know, I remember, and I'll save names here, but people have been talking about collagen specifically for soft tissue injury. And work there initially came, of course, out of animal, mice, and urine models, and other things.
And I'm generally a person who says, until it's at least somewhat shown in humans, I'm not gonna say it doesn't work. I'm just not really gonna be concerned of it. I think it's really important that people understand where they are at personally on that line.
And I'm generally a person who says, until it's at least somewhat shown in humans, I'm not gonna say it doesn't work. I'm just not really gonna be concerned of it. I think it's really important that people understand where they are at personally on that line.
So you have kind of over on one end of the spectrum, unless it's been shown in five randomized control, double-blind placebo studies, I'm not taking it. Okay, fine. I personally don't live in that world. I deal with most of the athletes and clients are never gonna have a randomized control trial on them, population-wise.
So you have kind of over on one end of the spectrum, unless it's been shown in five randomized control, double-blind placebo studies, I'm not taking it. Okay, fine. I personally don't live in that world. I deal with most of the athletes and clients are never gonna have a randomized control trial on them, population-wise.
Other folks, other than the spectrum, is if there's even a plausible cell culture study, like I'm all in.
Other folks, other than the spectrum, is if there's even a plausible cell culture study, like I'm all in.
Okay. I'm probably in the middle. If I would be honest, I'm a little bit hedged more towards the right, the clinical trial. Let me see it in humans at least. Ideally not in just like a case study only. Okay. A variable I care about, somewhat trained or whatever population I'm looking at. So my personal bias is I'm there. What that means is I'm sometimes slow, sometimes behind.
Okay. I'm probably in the middle. If I would be honest, I'm a little bit hedged more towards the right, the clinical trial. Let me see it in humans at least. Ideally not in just like a case study only. Okay. A variable I care about, somewhat trained or whatever population I'm looking at. So my personal bias is I'm there. What that means is I'm sometimes slow, sometimes behind.
People are taking things before I would. But I'm okay there because on aggregate, I generally win in the sense that I avoid things, not taking things. I stop doing procedures and products where other people have tried because I'm like, well, eventually it turned out to sort of not work.
People are taking things before I would. But I'm okay there because on aggregate, I generally win in the sense that I avoid things, not taking things. I stop doing procedures and products where other people have tried because I'm like, well, eventually it turned out to sort of not work.
So I think it's fine. People can be wherever on the spectrum I want. I don't think there's any issue as long as they are either aware with themselves or their athletes or clients or customers where they're at on that journey. For me, collagen was on that left end. It was very much, I don't see much here. I don't see which are plausible. Then some human studies came. I didn't see much there.
So I think it's fine. People can be wherever on the spectrum I want. I don't think there's any issue as long as they are either aware with themselves or their athletes or clients or customers where they're at on that journey. For me, collagen was on that left end. It was very much, I don't see much here. I don't see which are plausible. Then some human studies came. I didn't see much there.
It's changed. Like it really has changed recently, so much so now where I think, okay, I think there is something here, there, and there's enough for me to take action. So we have integrated collagen a lot more on this. So where are you at on that spectrum? Tell us about that study you did there, what you guys learned, and in general, your take.
It's changed. Like it really has changed recently, so much so now where I think, okay, I think there is something here, there, and there's enough for me to take action. So we have integrated collagen a lot more on this. So where are you at on that spectrum? Tell us about that study you did there, what you guys learned, and in general, your take.
And it's usually at a very low total protein intake and things like that.
And it's usually at a very low total protein intake and things like that.
He says it a little more aggressively than that, but okay. Yeah.
He says it a little more aggressively than that, but okay. Yeah.
That's right around the number, right? Where if you see bone mineral density changes in six months, you probably have to be in a severe drug protocol, damage protocol, caloric restriction protocol or something. By 12, you'll see it. So I only want to flag that for people to realize if you're looking at body composition, muscle growth, performance, sleep, digest, those can happen in weeks. Right.
That's right around the number, right? Where if you see bone mineral density changes in six months, you probably have to be in a severe drug protocol, damage protocol, caloric restriction protocol or something. By 12, you'll see it. So I only want to flag that for people to realize if you're looking at body composition, muscle growth, performance, sleep, digest, those can happen in weeks. Right.
Bone takes a very long time. And I think you nailed it. Nine months is probably right on that tipping point. Yeah, it was.
Bone takes a very long time. And I think you nailed it. Nine months is probably right on that tipping point. Yeah, it was.
We'll see.
We'll see.
So this is – they're doing the six-month study and then along the way you're going, hey, guys, if you want to keep going, by the way, we'll keep coaching and we'll keep giving you products.
So this is – they're doing the six-month study and then along the way you're going, hey, guys, if you want to keep going, by the way, we'll keep coaching and we'll keep giving you products.
Okay. Handful of follow-ups on you there. Number one, for anyone at home, collagen can be got very cheaply. So in fact, I think Keith's initial stuff was just 50 cents at the store gelatin. So you can look up, I'm sure we could probably put some stuff in the show notes, but you can literally make this stuff for very cheap. If you want, you can of course get it from a supplement company.
Okay. Handful of follow-ups on you there. Number one, for anyone at home, collagen can be got very cheaply. So in fact, I think Keith's initial stuff was just 50 cents at the store gelatin. So you can look up, I'm sure we could probably put some stuff in the show notes, but you can literally make this stuff for very cheap. If you want, you can of course get it from a supplement company.
Most of them, I know the momentous one is already made with vitamin C. 50 milligrams is the general dosage, I think, for the activation. The reason for that, in case you're wondering, is a lot of—the quick way to explain this is the collagen needs to be actually absorbed and utilized, and vitamin C is an important cofactor in that process. Right.
Most of them, I know the momentous one is already made with vitamin C. 50 milligrams is the general dosage, I think, for the activation. The reason for that, in case you're wondering, is a lot of—the quick way to explain this is the collagen needs to be actually absorbed and utilized, and vitamin C is an important cofactor in that process. Right.
i skipped a bunch of science and that's not totally correct what i said but that for the most part if you're wondering like why the heck did he say vitamin c if that felt out of random for you perhaps we can talk at a separate time about that but that's that's why you bring it up and again the collagen shots and other stuff from momentous is already in there but most other companies if you have a different place that you'd like to get your supplements from a lot of them are mixing with vitamin c for that exact reason so
i skipped a bunch of science and that's not totally correct what i said but that for the most part if you're wondering like why the heck did he say vitamin c if that felt out of random for you perhaps we can talk at a separate time about that but that's that's why you bring it up and again the collagen shots and other stuff from momentous is already in there but most other companies if you have a different place that you'd like to get your supplements from a lot of them are mixing with vitamin c for that exact reason so
I wanted to make sure we did that so I didn't forget because people are going to ask, okay, where the heck do I get this stuff from? Yeah. How do I get it there? But back to your study design question, did you do serial design or serial testing or was it simply the six-month, nine-month mark that you did it?
I wanted to make sure we did that so I didn't forget because people are going to ask, okay, where the heck do I get this stuff from? Yeah. How do I get it there? But back to your study design question, did you do serial design or serial testing or was it simply the six-month, nine-month mark that you did it?
So you had your – and what all measures did you have there besides the joint pain, things like that?
So you had your – and what all measures did you have there besides the joint pain, things like that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you saw virtually no change until about the six month mark. And that was your first point of statistical difference was at that
So you saw virtually no change until about the six month mark. And that was your first point of statistical difference was at that
And it held on for the nine months.
And it held on for the nine months.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, what are the known downsides besides cost? Yeah, nothing.
Well, what are the known downsides besides cost? Yeah, nothing.
It won't help. Sure. But for a pretty reasonable, I don't know what, I don't know, probably $40 a month, like maybe at the most. Yeah. Something like that. Relative to the pain you're experiencing, if it even has a 10 or 15% reduction in pain. You remember what the magnitude of effect was on the pain? Was it something like that?
It won't help. Sure. But for a pretty reasonable, I don't know what, I don't know, probably $40 a month, like maybe at the most. Yeah. Something like that. Relative to the pain you're experiencing, if it even has a 10 or 15% reduction in pain. You remember what the magnitude of effect was on the pain? Was it something like that?
I would imagine it's not this insane, life-changing, my arthritis is gone my entire life, but it's probably more of like a – I went from a 7 out of 10 to 5 out of 10.
I would imagine it's not this insane, life-changing, my arthritis is gone my entire life, but it's probably more of like a – I went from a 7 out of 10 to 5 out of 10.
Okay. So we can assume very low downside. Okay. likely plausible mild benefit, if that meets the criteria for you to take action, great. If it doesn't, that's fine too. All I'm assuming you want to do is just make sure people know what is possibly happening and then it's up for them to decide if that meets their action criteria.
Okay. So we can assume very low downside. Okay. likely plausible mild benefit, if that meets the criteria for you to take action, great. If it doesn't, that's fine too. All I'm assuming you want to do is just make sure people know what is possibly happening and then it's up for them to decide if that meets their action criteria.
Last two questions on that. One, why do you think the ones that exercise the most are the only ones or the ones that saw the most benefit?
Last two questions on that. One, why do you think the ones that exercise the most are the only ones or the ones that saw the most benefit?
So you need to repeat that study and specifically give it to them in that 45 to 90 minutes pre-workout window, which is where most of these work.
So you need to repeat that study and specifically give it to them in that 45 to 90 minutes pre-workout window, which is where most of these work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How did I miss the math there? That's science, right?
How did I miss the math there? That's science, right?
Yeah. But you mentioned it's free living. That's going to have the most ecological validity, the most external validity, right? What that means is that's the most realistic to a real life scenario where someone just, they're taking a scoop of it. They're not doing it the best way. They're not having a perfectly designed training protocol. And you still see, in my opinion, as a...
Yeah. But you mentioned it's free living. That's going to have the most ecological validity, the most external validity, right? What that means is that's the most realistic to a real life scenario where someone just, they're taking a scoop of it. They're not doing it the best way. They're not having a perfectly designed training protocol. And you still see, in my opinion, as a...
I will just say fairly well-trained scientist at this point in my career. That's actually really powerful because you didn't do it at the right time. You didn't control for those things and you still saw a statistically significant, albeit mild, benefit. I think most people listening would say, I will take a mild reduction in my daily pain.
I will just say fairly well-trained scientist at this point in my career. That's actually really powerful because you didn't do it at the right time. You didn't control for those things and you still saw a statistically significant, albeit mild, benefit. I think most people listening would say, I will take a mild reduction in my daily pain.
For a 50-calorie snack? Yeah, and the cognitive side.
For a 50-calorie snack? Yeah, and the cognitive side.
So the last question I have for you on that particular study was, and I know everyone listening has been waiting for me to ask this or hoping I would, how did 10 work better than 20?
So the last question I have for you on that particular study was, and I know everyone listening has been waiting for me to ask this or hoping I would, how did 10 work better than 20?
Right. It's interesting because rarely with protein, and albeit collagen is not the same thing as whey protein— I just can't think of too many situations in which when you go more than, you had a lesser effect.
Right. It's interesting because rarely with protein, and albeit collagen is not the same thing as whey protein— I just can't think of too many situations in which when you go more than, you had a lesser effect.
It's almost always the more protein or protein-like, the more amino acids, the more anything in this space, either you get a benefit or you at worst get a, maybe not a greater increase in benefit relative to, to the greater increase in, in substrate or volume or food or calories. But in this case, you actually see a dampered effect.
It's almost always the more protein or protein-like, the more amino acids, the more anything in this space, either you get a benefit or you at worst get a, maybe not a greater increase in benefit relative to, to the greater increase in, in substrate or volume or food or calories. But in this case, you actually see a dampered effect.
Struggling to answer a review question.
Struggling to answer a review question.
I think that's... It's honestly... And I don't mean this... I know you won't take it this way, but it's also very plausible it's artifact. No doubt. As in, it might not be a real genuine finding. You... Weird things can happen, right? And this is why another thing you said earlier as a passing comment that I want to pull out is another great sign of a phenomenal scientist.
I think that's... It's honestly... And I don't mean this... I know you won't take it this way, but it's also very plausible it's artifact. No doubt. As in, it might not be a real genuine finding. You... Weird things can happen, right? And this is why another thing you said earlier as a passing comment that I want to pull out is another great sign of a phenomenal scientist.
You mentioned a study coming from one lab before, and you say, okay... You would say the same thing I know you would about your lab. Oh, for sure. So don't over-interpret this nine-month study. Right. Right? It's like, well, let's see another lab. Repeat it. Let's do different circumstances.
You mentioned a study coming from one lab before, and you say, okay... You would say the same thing I know you would about your lab. Oh, for sure. So don't over-interpret this nine-month study. Right. Right? It's like, well, let's see another lab. Repeat it. Let's do different circumstances.
Okay. Well, for the record, I'm going to keep taking 20. I don't care what your data say. I'm not kidding. I'm not stopping it at all. It's too much of a potential win. But I'll be honest. One of the major reasons I changed my position in this field was your paper. Once I saw your name, that kind of a study on – I was like, okay.
Okay. Well, for the record, I'm going to keep taking 20. I don't care what your data say. I'm not kidding. I'm not stopping it at all. It's too much of a potential win. But I'll be honest. One of the major reasons I changed my position in this field was your paper. Once I saw your name, that kind of a study on – I was like, okay.
Now I can start believing this data because it's not against the other scientists who were publishing earlier with you, but it's just the fact that I now saw it on multiple labs, a lab I recognize, and the data were believable. And what I mean by that is when you do real-world studies, you rarely see everything works every time. Right.
Now I can start believing this data because it's not against the other scientists who were publishing earlier with you, but it's just the fact that I now saw it on multiple labs, a lab I recognize, and the data were believable. And what I mean by that is when you do real-world studies, you rarely see everything works every time. Right.
It's like, well, maybe joint pain went down, but they slept worse. Or this marker in the blood went up, and this other marker went up, and then this one didn't. Right. And anytime I see a paper where like everything gets better, I'm always like, no, no way.
It's like, well, maybe joint pain went down, but they slept worse. Or this marker in the blood went up, and this other marker went up, and then this one didn't. Right. And anytime I see a paper where like everything gets better, I'm always like, no, no way.
Awesome. We've hit protein and carbohydrates and we went to collagen. I think actually it would be helpful and I'm sorry I forgot this, but maybe let's take a real quick step backwards. What the heck is collagen? Yeah. We hear about it a lot. We talk about it. We've sort of been kind of saying that illness is interchanged with protein. It's not.
Awesome. We've hit protein and carbohydrates and we went to collagen. I think actually it would be helpful and I'm sorry I forgot this, but maybe let's take a real quick step backwards. What the heck is collagen? Yeah. We hear about it a lot. We talk about it. We've sort of been kind of saying that illness is interchanged with protein. It's not.
But can you just give people a quick understanding of what collagen actually is?
But can you just give people a quick understanding of what collagen actually is?
Leucine is the amino acid that's the primary driver. Well, it's a large driver of muscle growth, hence your comments earlier about whey protein being – Hey, thanks, Stu Phillips. Great. That's the one for muscle growth. This one is basically absent of it. Yeah. And so it's the throwaway protein, right?
Leucine is the amino acid that's the primary driver. Well, it's a large driver of muscle growth, hence your comments earlier about whey protein being – Hey, thanks, Stu Phillips. Great. That's the one for muscle growth. This one is basically absent of it. Yeah. And so it's the throwaway protein, right?
Let me make sure I understood that correctly. If you were to ingest a majority of different types of proteins— You're going to have them go into your gut as that piece of steak, that milk, that yogurt, that whatever you're getting it from. Great. It's going to be in your stomach as a whole protein. By the time it gets into your blood, it is now in the blood not as the whole protein anymore.
Let me make sure I understood that correctly. If you were to ingest a majority of different types of proteins— You're going to have them go into your gut as that piece of steak, that milk, that yogurt, that whatever you're getting it from. Great. It's going to be in your stomach as a whole protein. By the time it gets into your blood, it is now in the blood not as the whole protein anymore.
but as its individual amino acid components, right? So this is what your gut and your digestive tract are doing is they're breaking it down from the total protein into the amino acids. But what you're saying is what's unique about collagen is it's not necessarily broken down the entire way.
but as its individual amino acid components, right? So this is what your gut and your digestive tract are doing is they're breaking it down from the total protein into the amino acids. But what you're saying is what's unique about collagen is it's not necessarily broken down the entire way.
Technical stuff, I'm sure. Yeah.
Technical stuff, I'm sure. Yeah.
So in your blood, you could pull it out and you'll see two or three of these amino acids still linked together, which would be insanely uncommon. If you were to, for example, put an IV line in me and you measured my blood and I had a meal, you could see how much protein I ate, but you would have no idea what I actually ate. In this case, it would be different.
So in your blood, you could pull it out and you'll see two or three of these amino acids still linked together, which would be insanely uncommon. If you were to, for example, put an IV line in me and you measured my blood and I had a meal, you could see how much protein I ate, but you would have no idea what I actually ate. In this case, it would be different.
You would, in theory, if this holds true, be able to say, wow, you specifically ate collagen. Right, and I think where the breakdown is— This is very weird scientifically, by the way, if you're like, what are these guys learning about? I'm fixated on this because this is really, really odd.
You would, in theory, if this holds true, be able to say, wow, you specifically ate collagen. Right, and I think where the breakdown is— This is very weird scientifically, by the way, if you're like, what are these guys learning about? I'm fixated on this because this is really, really odd.
Sure. Okay. So leucine is the one in most proteins that drives muscle protein synthesis. Over here, we're not talking about leucine. We're talking about a couple of other ones. Remind us of what those other ones are and quickly why they matter.
Sure. Okay. So leucine is the one in most proteins that drives muscle protein synthesis. Over here, we're not talking about leucine. We're talking about a couple of other ones. Remind us of what those other ones are and quickly why they matter.
Okay, great. So I want to focus a little bit more on one of those amino acids because I know you've done some work. Tangentially, I'm transitioning here. I'm bridging a gap a little bit here, and that is glycine. So you don't need to give me the structural details here, but... We know why leucine matters. Why does glycine matter? What does it do?
Okay, great. So I want to focus a little bit more on one of those amino acids because I know you've done some work. Tangentially, I'm transitioning here. I'm bridging a gap a little bit here, and that is glycine. So you don't need to give me the structural details here, but... We know why leucine matters. Why does glycine matter? What does it do?
And then we'll get into some of your supplementation work here.
And then we'll get into some of your supplementation work here.
Betaine, also known as trimethylglycine. Trimethylglycine. Or also known as betaine, beteen, betaine. I've seen people mispronounce this. There's a thousand different ways. Spelled? B-E-A-T. B-E-T-A-I-N-E. Yeah. There you go.
Betaine, also known as trimethylglycine. Trimethylglycine. Or also known as betaine, beteen, betaine. I've seen people mispronounce this. There's a thousand different ways. Spelled? B-E-A-T. B-E-T-A-I-N-E. Yeah. There you go.
And this is probably, by the way, 10 years? Oh, more than that. OK. Yeah. Because I know it's been on the – in our field published for – it's fairly recent, I guess is what I'm talking about. In our field, 10. Yeah. Yeah, ish.
And this is probably, by the way, 10 years? Oh, more than that. OK. Yeah. Because I know it's been on the – in our field published for – it's fairly recent, I guess is what I'm talking about. In our field, 10. Yeah. Yeah, ish.
So if I take this right before my heat exposure, potentially nothing's going to happen.
So if I take this right before my heat exposure, potentially nothing's going to happen.
Okay, so you got participants sitting in there. Yeah, they're just sitting in a chair in the heat. At 40 degrees.
Okay, so you got participants sitting in there. Yeah, they're just sitting in a chair in the heat. At 40 degrees.
So you can't tell us the results of that. You can tell us that it was pretty cool, though.
So you can't tell us the results of that. You can tell us that it was pretty cool, though.
Okay. I won't ask you about the results. That's faux pas, right? You can't tell us that until it comes out. But I can ask you some things about dosages and things like that. Before we do that, you were telling me earlier about a little bit of the protocol for the firefighter overheating. So that was not sit easy at 40 degrees. No, yeah. What was that?
Okay. I won't ask you about the results. That's faux pas, right? You can't tell us that until it comes out. But I can ask you some things about dosages and things like that. Before we do that, you were telling me earlier about a little bit of the protocol for the firefighter overheating. So that was not sit easy at 40 degrees. No, yeah. What was that?
Yeah. Easy, I believe that. You get that hot, two, three pounds, you're going to be gone. So you— The results will be what the results will be. But what you were looking at, in case this hasn't been clear yet, is is that supplement helping them manage the heat better?
Yeah. Easy, I believe that. You get that hot, two, three pounds, you're going to be gone. So you— The results will be what the results will be. But what you were looking at, in case this hasn't been clear yet, is is that supplement helping them manage the heat better?
So how much—what's the dosage?
So how much—what's the dosage?
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, okay.
You mentioned really quickly there a couple of ways of how it could theoretically work. I know that this is early in the field. It's 10 years old at best. You got some publications you're working on. Surely others are. But outside of handling heat stress— more effectively. Can you think of any other known or plausible benefits of it as a supplement?
You mentioned really quickly there a couple of ways of how it could theoretically work. I know that this is early in the field. It's 10 years old at best. You got some publications you're working on. Surely others are. But outside of handling heat stress— more effectively. Can you think of any other known or plausible benefits of it as a supplement?
It is available in many, many supplements right now.
It is available in many, many supplements right now.
You wonder if it has plausible benefit for endurance folks, not even extreme stuff, the ultra stuff, which could be the case, but even a soccer game in the heat. A baseball game, probably not as much, but any real outdoor activity from a sporting perspective where you're going to be in a lot of heat. I don't know if there's any data on that, but it's plausible.
You wonder if it has plausible benefit for endurance folks, not even extreme stuff, the ultra stuff, which could be the case, but even a soccer game in the heat. A baseball game, probably not as much, but any real outdoor activity from a sporting perspective where you're going to be in a lot of heat. I don't know if there's any data on that, but it's plausible.
Wow. Awesome. That's a super interesting one. I have RSS alerts on my PubMed for that. I'm like looking for something to come out in that area. So I know I'll see your firefighter study the day that it hits there. Maybe you can send me a reminder text, but I'll read it. No, either way, man. You got it.
Wow. Awesome. That's a super interesting one. I have RSS alerts on my PubMed for that. I'm like looking for something to come out in that area. So I know I'll see your firefighter study the day that it hits there. Maybe you can send me a reminder text, but I'll read it. No, either way, man. You got it.
Let's go from that to another similar sounding supplement that you've done some work in that people, again, lots of stuff out there, but people haven't heard about it. And that's theocrine or theocrine. So tell us about that, what you've done in there, and maybe even just start us off by telling us what the heck it even is.
Let's go from that to another similar sounding supplement that you've done some work in that people, again, lots of stuff out there, but people haven't heard about it. And that's theocrine or theocrine. So tell us about that, what you've done in there, and maybe even just start us off by telling us what the heck it even is.
Right. So it's spelled, by the way, here, so it's like one H versus the not. Yes. H in there, basically. Very similar. Like T, like T-E-A-C-R-I-N-E. Right. Theocrine.
Right. So it's spelled, by the way, here, so it's like one H versus the not. Yes. H in there, basically. Very similar. Like T, like T-E-A-C-R-I-N-E. Right. Theocrine.
Oh, man, the days.
Oh, man, the days.
So can I take it and get the benefits but not have the crash, the jitters?
So can I take it and get the benefits but not have the crash, the jitters?
He's on the hunt here.
He's on the hunt here.
Known effective dose. Yeah.
Known effective dose. Yeah.
Yeah, so what you'd see in general with caffeine is you have a cognitive benefit. All right, people are aware of that. Alert, focused, so on and so forth. But there's a several decades of research on the physical performance benefits. So in general, endurance performance is enhanced and things like that.
Yeah, so what you'd see in general with caffeine is you have a cognitive benefit. All right, people are aware of that. Alert, focused, so on and so forth. But there's a several decades of research on the physical performance benefits. So in general, endurance performance is enhanced and things like that.
With tea cream, you saw many of the cognitive stuff, as you mentioned, but the physical stuff, I actually, I don't think I've seen a single paper that's shown a physical benefit yet. Maybe I've missed some, but none are there. So I've used it personally. I know I'm not a huge personal fan of caffeine. So Teocrine was appealing in that sense.
With tea cream, you saw many of the cognitive stuff, as you mentioned, but the physical stuff, I actually, I don't think I've seen a single paper that's shown a physical benefit yet. Maybe I've missed some, but none are there. So I've used it personally. I know I'm not a huge personal fan of caffeine. So Teocrine was appealing in that sense.
I don't really like stimulants in general, but I didn't have a huge thing there. I have friends, though. Love it. Completely love it. They've gone completely off caffeine and are pure tea cream. And I know other folks have put it in a mix and combination, maybe 50 mg of caffeine and 150 of tea cream or something like that.
I don't really like stimulants in general, but I didn't have a huge thing there. I have friends, though. Love it. Completely love it. They've gone completely off caffeine and are pure tea cream. And I know other folks have put it in a mix and combination, maybe 50 mg of caffeine and 150 of tea cream or something like that.
My answer to them is always like if you feel great for those ones, if you're amazing, I just don't anticipate too much performance benefit from it. Not exactly sure why. I don't know if you have any thoughts on why caffeine does it. But tea cream doesn't.
My answer to them is always like if you feel great for those ones, if you're amazing, I just don't anticipate too much performance benefit from it. Not exactly sure why. I don't know if you have any thoughts on why caffeine does it. But tea cream doesn't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
500 mg of caffeine. Yeah.
500 mg of caffeine. Yeah.
You start getting past that, you start getting in the negative. Like there's a downslope with too much caffeine with performance.
You start getting past that, you start getting in the negative. Like there's a downslope with too much caffeine with performance.
Yeah, we'll see. Okay, so we hand-run a couple of those ones. I would love to get – I was hoping we'd get the chance to talk about some of the vascular work you've done in creatine, but maybe we'll save that for another day. Is there maybe – you've done a couple of papers or you've worked on some papers in that area, right? Can you give us a quick response to that?
Yeah, we'll see. Okay, so we hand-run a couple of those ones. I would love to get – I was hoping we'd get the chance to talk about some of the vascular work you've done in creatine, but maybe we'll save that for another day. Is there maybe – you've done a couple of papers or you've worked on some papers in that area, right? Can you give us a quick response to that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how I'm familiar with it for the most part.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how I'm familiar with it for the most part.
I had heard word on the street, you were working on some vascular stuff with creatine. So I was hoping to pull that out of you, but okay, we'll have to use the review and the plausible mechanisms. I would be surprised if we don't see positive benefits there. Maybe not in your study because the study design or maybe it doesn't, it doesn't.
I had heard word on the street, you were working on some vascular stuff with creatine. So I was hoping to pull that out of you, but okay, we'll have to use the review and the plausible mechanisms. I would be surprised if we don't see positive benefits there. Maybe not in your study because the study design or maybe it doesn't, it doesn't.
But having gone through that paper, and that's open access paper. Anyone can go read that if you want. I would struggle. I think you guys are not onto something there. So oftentimes we talk about creatine. I've been as staunch of a supporter as possible for the well-rounded benefits of creatine, but rarely have I seen people talk about the vascular benefits.
But having gone through that paper, and that's open access paper. Anyone can go read that if you want. I would struggle. I think you guys are not onto something there. So oftentimes we talk about creatine. I've been as staunch of a supporter as possible for the well-rounded benefits of creatine, but rarely have I seen people talk about the vascular benefits.
Now, 30 years later. Now we know you should. We're right back here. See, meatheads run the world, friends. It's only bro science until it's real science. Okay. The reason I'm going to cut you short on that one, I know you have more to say on that, is I actually want to get to one more smaller, quicker question and then one more, a couple more areas I think of interest.
Now, 30 years later. Now we know you should. We're right back here. See, meatheads run the world, friends. It's only bro science until it's real science. Okay. The reason I'm going to cut you short on that one, I know you have more to say on that, is I actually want to get to one more smaller, quicker question and then one more, a couple more areas I think of interest.
People are aware of prebiotics. But what are postbiotics?
People are aware of prebiotics. But what are postbiotics?
So you have a prebiotic.
So you have a prebiotic.
And a probiotic would be?
And a probiotic would be?
There you go. Yeah. So you have pre, post, and you're mid here. So what do we know about the postbiotics?
There you go. Yeah. So you have pre, post, and you're mid here. So what do we know about the postbiotics?
Yeah, Ravi Lab in your lab, right?
Yeah, Ravi Lab in your lab, right?
Okay. Now, we should talk about that specifically. We can do some fun things in that area too. But have you thought at all yet, and you may not, that's okay, and you may not actually know it offhand, about how you're going to be delivering that and the dosage of it? I don't know if you guys got into those details yet with your study design.
Okay. Now, we should talk about that specifically. We can do some fun things in that area too. But have you thought at all yet, and you may not, that's okay, and you may not actually know it offhand, about how you're going to be delivering that and the dosage of it? I don't know if you guys got into those details yet with your study design.
Or maybe your grad student probably knows.
Or maybe your grad student probably knows.
Okay. I'm sure you guys get that figured out. There'll be another case, though, of you may have to tinker with a few types and styles and delivery formats and things like that. So you've got another 15 years or so for that one.
Okay. I'm sure you guys get that figured out. There'll be another case, though, of you may have to tinker with a few types and styles and delivery formats and things like that. So you've got another 15 years or so for that one.
Yeah, no, I get it, man. That's pretty awesome.
Yeah, no, I get it, man. That's pretty awesome.
Okay.
Okay.
Core biome. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, we'll see whether or not it works. Yeah. So maybe we'll start taking it. Maybe we won't. We know with your lab, it's a 50-50 shot. No doubt. No doubt. Okay. I want to give one more area here, and we're staying in the lane of sports performance, but a paper that you published, also I'm pretty sure it was Open Access, that your group was a part of, rather.
Core biome. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, we'll see whether or not it works. Yeah. So maybe we'll start taking it. Maybe we won't. We know with your lab, it's a 50-50 shot. No doubt. No doubt. Okay. I want to give one more area here, and we're staying in the lane of sports performance, but a paper that you published, also I'm pretty sure it was Open Access, that your group was a part of, rather.
of supplementation for muscle damage and recovery in females. I get this nonstop, but tell me what you guys found in that and what do we know, what can we do for that population about supplements for... And I think it actually was specifically post-exercise muscle damage was for the most part in that paper.
of supplementation for muscle damage and recovery in females. I get this nonstop, but tell me what you guys found in that and what do we know, what can we do for that population about supplements for... And I think it actually was specifically post-exercise muscle damage was for the most part in that paper.
Oh, I see how this went.
Oh, I see how this went.
And did any of them work?
And did any of them work?
Oh. Without ruining another supplement company's life there, what kind of multi-ingredients do you remember offhand, the type of things that were in these? Or were these kind of creatine, beta-alanine, protein combination things? You got it.
Oh. Without ruining another supplement company's life there, what kind of multi-ingredients do you remember offhand, the type of things that were in these? Or were these kind of creatine, beta-alanine, protein combination things? You got it.
Well, if you think the misquoting was happening before, just wait. Right. After this comes out, just wait. Anything we do know of that will enhance recovery? Maybe it was not from your paper or your research, but I'm actually most interested in knowing if there are things that are specifically more effective for females that we know of, or is that not the case?
Well, if you think the misquoting was happening before, just wait. Right. After this comes out, just wait. Anything we do know of that will enhance recovery? Maybe it was not from your paper or your research, but I'm actually most interested in knowing if there are things that are specifically more effective for females that we know of, or is that not the case?
There's no reason to think females need to do anything different from a nutrition or supplementation perspective. Not at this point.
There's no reason to think females need to do anything different from a nutrition or supplementation perspective. Not at this point.
So as a general answer, probably not. At the specific level, though, there may be. We just don't have those data yet.
So as a general answer, probably not. At the specific level, though, there may be. We just don't have those data yet.
We just need more work in that area. Amazing. You've been super generous with your time, but I'm not letting you off the hook before I get one more thing out of you. You were telling me about some upcoming studies you've got going on. And you mentioned the travel one. I don't know if you can talk about that, but is there any other cool stuff you got going on?
We just need more work in that area. Amazing. You've been super generous with your time, but I'm not letting you off the hook before I get one more thing out of you. You were telling me about some upcoming studies you've got going on. And you mentioned the travel one. I don't know if you can talk about that, but is there any other cool stuff you got going on?
We did a jet lag travel study with Bill Kramer at University of Connecticut. They did a bunch of stuff in stores. We took blood performance. They flew out to L.A., did a whole bunch of other stuff, flew them back out there, retested them again. We did that probably 15 years ago or something like that. And that was a very fun study. So I'm looking forward to see what you guys pull up.
We did a jet lag travel study with Bill Kramer at University of Connecticut. They did a bunch of stuff in stores. We took blood performance. They flew out to L.A., did a whole bunch of other stuff, flew them back out there, retested them again. We did that probably 15 years ago or something like that. And that was a very fun study. So I'm looking forward to see what you guys pull up.
Well, what's really interesting is if you follow college sports at all, you realize that a trip from Florida to California – is now the same conference. That's ACC. That's ACC. We are now in the Big Ten. My friend and I were – actually, my brother-in-law, Josh, we're joking.
Well, what's really interesting is if you follow college sports at all, you realize that a trip from Florida to California – is now the same conference. That's ACC. That's ACC. We are now in the Big Ten. My friend and I were – actually, my brother-in-law, Josh, we're joking.
He's an Ohio State guy, and he texted me something about University of Washington and USC just played in a classic Big Ten matchup. I was just like, ah. He's rubbing it in.
He's an Ohio State guy, and he texted me something about University of Washington and USC just played in a classic Big Ten matchup. I was just like, ah. He's rubbing it in.
It's killing me. So this is a real part of collegiate athletics, and it's not just football. Yeah. All of them.
It's killing me. So this is a real part of collegiate athletics, and it's not just football. Yeah. All of them.
Folks that are paying attention are spending a lot of time at the collegiate level on sleep because – Of those things, and we expect them to go back and not make bad decisions and all that stuff, despite the fact that we know what happens. Not only the lack of sleep, but just timing of sleep. So really cool stuff.
Folks that are paying attention are spending a lot of time at the collegiate level on sleep because – Of those things, and we expect them to go back and not make bad decisions and all that stuff, despite the fact that we know what happens. Not only the lack of sleep, but just timing of sleep. So really cool stuff.
I'm going to finish on one point, and I'm doing this intentionally at the end here, because I think it's really important. A lot of people will talk about the current field of nutrition and supplementation, and perhaps... the conflicts of interest and biases, and can you trust the research? And that's probably fair, right?
I'm going to finish on one point, and I'm doing this intentionally at the end here, because I think it's really important. A lot of people will talk about the current field of nutrition and supplementation, and perhaps... the conflicts of interest and biases, and can you trust the research? And that's probably fair, right?
The general attitude is less trust in the institutions and perhaps has ever been, and that's fine. But I really wanted to talk to you about this because I don't know necessarily anybody who has more industry funding. Your studies have been paid for by supplement companies. And you have gotten money from the government, NIH and plenty of other places.
The general attitude is less trust in the institutions and perhaps has ever been, and that's fine. But I really wanted to talk to you about this because I don't know necessarily anybody who has more industry funding. Your studies have been paid for by supplement companies. And you have gotten money from the government, NIH and plenty of other places.
That said, as we have shown the entire conversation here, you're 50-50, right? You clearly don't hesitate. That's generous. To take funding from somebody and then tell them their product did not work.
That said, as we have shown the entire conversation here, you're 50-50, right? You clearly don't hesitate. That's generous. To take funding from somebody and then tell them their product did not work.
Those contracts don't happen anymore. Maybe that used to happen, but I don't know anyone who has contracts like that anymore.
Those contracts don't happen anymore. Maybe that used to happen, but I don't know anyone who has contracts like that anymore.
Yeah. So- Is it fair, and I'm clearly asking this in a directional way here, for someone to pull up a study... look at the conflict of interest statement, see that it's been funded by a company, and then immediately throw those data out to immediately assume that this was biased and bought and paid for by the study. By my tone, you can clearly see my position there.
Yeah. So- Is it fair, and I'm clearly asking this in a directional way here, for someone to pull up a study... look at the conflict of interest statement, see that it's been funded by a company, and then immediately throw those data out to immediately assume that this was biased and bought and paid for by the study. By my tone, you can clearly see my position there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think what would be really helpful would be saying. When you look at papers and you see that it's been funded by a supplement company, I know you're going to look at the lab and you'll know the people on there and you'll know the students and the faculty and the institution. It makes it easy for people like you and I to quickly vet that.
I think what would be really helpful would be saying. When you look at papers and you see that it's been funded by a supplement company, I know you're going to look at the lab and you'll know the people on there and you'll know the students and the faculty and the institution. It makes it easy for people like you and I to quickly vet that.
So I can look at things and go, yeah, I'm not believing that yet. I see it's funded by the company. Okay, one of the co-authors works at the company and I don't recognize that lab. Doesn't mean it's wrong or fake at all, but I'm going to have much more hesitation. For people that don't know,
So I can look at things and go, yeah, I'm not believing that yet. I see it's funded by the company. Okay, one of the co-authors works at the company and I don't recognize that lab. Doesn't mean it's wrong or fake at all, but I'm going to have much more hesitation. For people that don't know,
labs they don't know who you are you know yeah the one of the most dedicated or published prolific people in this area they don't know the labs are there anything you can give them to help because it is also real if you see there is people who have straight up fraudulent data there are people who have made studies up i use actually i don't know i'm not familiar with retraction watch it's great it's a great place where you can see papers that are retracted awesome service
labs they don't know who you are you know yeah the one of the most dedicated or published prolific people in this area they don't know the labs are there anything you can give them to help because it is also real if you see there is people who have straight up fraudulent data there are people who have made studies up i use actually i don't know i'm not familiar with retraction watch it's great it's a great place where you can see papers that are retracted awesome service
So that stuff does happen. It's not really common. But it gets the headlines. But it gets the headlines, right?
So that stuff does happen. It's not really common. But it gets the headlines. But it gets the headlines, right?
So it's true. When I personally see a study that's been funded by a certain... Okay, like I'm notching it in my brain as datum. That's an important datum. It doesn't mean anything, but it is a nice little datum. Any advice for people...
So it's true. When I personally see a study that's been funded by a certain... Okay, like I'm notching it in my brain as datum. That's an important datum. It doesn't mean anything, but it is a nice little datum. Any advice for people...
that are trying to navigate that because we don't want them looking at papers, not looking at conflicts of interest at all, or not looking at potential funding sources. We want them to. That's good. But how do they not overreact? as well.
that are trying to navigate that because we don't want them looking at papers, not looking at conflicts of interest at all, or not looking at potential funding sources. We want them to. That's good. But how do they not overreact? as well.
Certified for sport, informed choice, NSF, those are really expensive and really hard.
Certified for sport, informed choice, NSF, those are really expensive and really hard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
100%.
100%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, any philanthropic donor out there that wants to pay for all these things, Mike has an account that you can send all $300 million to. Right. Yeah. Amazing, man. Anything else you feel like we've missed from earlier that you're going to go back and say or any other awesome stuff you want to share with people?
Yeah, any philanthropic donor out there that wants to pay for all these things, Mike has an account that you can send all $300 million to. Right. Yeah. Amazing, man. Anything else you feel like we've missed from earlier that you're going to go back and say or any other awesome stuff you want to share with people?
Yeah, I'm sure that will have the impact. I can tell this by the way that you've talked today. You didn't have a direct path to your career. You bounced around a little bit. And I know you toyed with industry for a while and did some other things. And it's not always necessarily this. You woke up one day when you were 12 and realized you wanted to become a sports scientist.
Yeah, I'm sure that will have the impact. I can tell this by the way that you've talked today. You didn't have a direct path to your career. You bounced around a little bit. And I know you toyed with industry for a while and did some other things. And it's not always necessarily this. You woke up one day when you were 12 and realized you wanted to become a sports scientist.
No, did not happen that way. A dietician, whatever else. But the way that you educate, I know that As I mentioned a couple of times now, and I've seen you speak at multiple events, you're a phenomenal educator. You've earned many awards in those areas. You have courses that are available for people? Yes. Tell us about that.
No, did not happen that way. A dietician, whatever else. But the way that you educate, I know that As I mentioned a couple of times now, and I've seen you speak at multiple events, you're a phenomenal educator. You've earned many awards in those areas. You have courses that are available for people? Yes. Tell us about that.
Yeah, and so that's available. Anyone can go take that.
Yeah, and so that's available. Anyone can go take that.
Don't have to be enrolled in Florida State University or anything like that.
Don't have to be enrolled in Florida State University or anything like that.
Yep, and they can Google that around and find that. We'll have show links and show notes, of course, to all those things over there. I mentioned it earlier, but please tell them how they can come to your lab offering metabolic testing and body composition, how all that works and where they go.
Yep, and they can Google that around and find that. We'll have show links and show notes, of course, to all those things over there. I mentioned it earlier, but please tell them how they can come to your lab offering metabolic testing and body composition, how all that works and where they go.
I think I looked and it was like $50. for some of the testing. $75, like very, very, very reasonable.
I think I looked and it was like $50. for some of the testing. $75, like very, very, very reasonable.
Gotcha. Okay. And again, we'll have links to all that stuff. Man, I can't appreciate and thank you enough for coming all the way out here. I appreciate the time. I appreciate everything you've done in the field and how much you've shared with us here today. I know that there's a ton of useful information here.
Gotcha. Okay. And again, we'll have links to all that stuff. Man, I can't appreciate and thank you enough for coming all the way out here. I appreciate the time. I appreciate everything you've done in the field and how much you've shared with us here today. I know that there's a ton of useful information here.
I know that you shared a bunch of information that most people have never heard before or encounter. to what they thought they knew. And I think we're going to hear plenty of stories of success after this. So thank you so much, man. You're welcome, Andy. Appreciate it. Thank you for joining today's episode with Dr. Mike Ormsby.
I know that you shared a bunch of information that most people have never heard before or encounter. to what they thought they knew. And I think we're going to hear plenty of stories of success after this. So thank you so much, man. You're welcome, Andy. Appreciate it. Thank you for joining today's episode with Dr. Mike Ormsby.
If you'd like to learn more about Mike's work or you're interested in supporting his research at Florida State, please see the links in our show notes. Right now, Mike and his lab have a dollar to dollar match going. So anyone who makes contributions will have it matched up to $50,000. an excellent opportunity to support high quality and helpful research.
If you'd like to learn more about Mike's work or you're interested in supporting his research at Florida State, please see the links in our show notes. Right now, Mike and his lab have a dollar to dollar match going. So anyone who makes contributions will have it matched up to $50,000. an excellent opportunity to support high quality and helpful research.
Mike also has educational courses that anyone in the world can take, as well as social media. So you can follow him there on Instagram and Twitter as great places to learn more and keep up to date with the work he's doing and his institute. Thank you for joining for today's episode. My goal, as always, is to share exciting scientific insights that help you perform at your best.
Mike also has educational courses that anyone in the world can take, as well as social media. So you can follow him there on Instagram and Twitter as great places to learn more and keep up to date with the work he's doing and his institute. Thank you for joining for today's episode. My goal, as always, is to share exciting scientific insights that help you perform at your best.
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I use my Instagram and X profiles also exclusively for scientific communication. So those are great places to follow along for more learning. My handle is at Dr. Andy Galpin on both platforms. We also have an email newsletter that distills all of our episodes in the most actionable takeaways. We have newsletters on how to improve fitness in VO2max, how to build muscle and strength, and much more.
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Oh my God.
I have not.
I'm loving, I'm learning so much from you.
Okay, she's definitely both of those things.
Very much a mommy and very much a muscle.
In the early 90s, mid 90s, all the way up through like the early 2000s, we still very much dealt with
strength training, these anaerobic things were a male, right?
No matter how much we fought that battle, there was a couple of problems there.
Number one, there was not a lot, female sports were still not accessible media-wise, right?
It wasn't actually until recently where female sports had really any TV time coverage, stuff like that.
But even if you go back to history, women didn't even start running the marathon, start doing other activities like this until decades after men did, right?
And then the participation numbers were tiny.
This was growing scientifically, but you had a whole generation of females from that 1990s
who were like, well, I'm kind of getting into strength training.
I'm kind of getting into these things.
I'm getting into sports.
But there wasn't social media.
There wasn't media out there.
Well, these people turned into MDs and strength coaches and scientists.
And now they're 30 and 35 and 40 and 45, and they're the Gabrielle Lyons, right?
But these are girls that got inspired in the 80s and 90s to do these things.
It's now coming to the forefront, which is great because we've been arguing this.
And when you asked that question earlier about toning, I'm like, oh my God, like for 25 years, we've been fighting.
Fighting the toning war.
Sure.
And it never worked because it was dudes like me telling girls like you that don't worry, you're not going to get bulky.
Which is not effective at all.
We needed in like, honestly, those female scientists and stuff to start coming forward and being the face of those movements.
That's largely happened.
And so the muscle mommies is probably a reflection of the last, you know, five to seven years of folks like that and Abby Smith, Ryan, and all these other folks coming from these different communities and saying, I've been lifting my whole life.
Look at me.
Yeah.
Oh, shit.
Yeah.
Huh.
You don't look like what I thought I was going to look like.
If you do want to look big and jacked and bulk, I don't care as a female.
Like, again, you define what is good or bad.
I don't care at all.
And I don't think Gabrielle would care at all what people say, right?
So you tell me what you do and don't want to look like, and we can program to that.
It just had, it took a while for us to come from the female voice.
You throw on top of that such mounting, colossal amounts of peer reviewed, high quality scientific evidence for things that touch female pain points.
And then you started getting belief in buy-in.
And so I think we're probably right at the beginning of that climb because, yeah, you will definitely see more there.
And men have been saying this for a very long time, but some men don't like muscular women.
A lot of men do.
So you, I think, this is certainly how I'll raise my daughter and how my wife is and how she'll raise her.
It's like, you look however the fuck you want.
There will be some man who cares about you if you care about that.
But you don't have to worry about playing sports because you're too worried that like boys won't like you.
That will happen, of course.
But I mean, you sure hope like every amount of education we can instill in them.
It's like that should never be a reality that you have to deal with.
If you want to be strong and get all the health benefits of that, we can do that in a way that doesn't make you look how you don't want.
If you care or even better yet, hopefully you don't even care.
Hopefully you just look how you ever want to look.
That makes you happy and healthy.
And we can, hopefully by the time my daughter is at that age, that these things don't matter as much.
Going at the longest end of the spectrum,
Everyone wants to live a long, healthy life, of course.
People are aware generally of lifespan and wellness span at this point, right?
But then there's a new awesome term that we call strength span.
And so what this effectively says is your wellness span is going to be dictated in large part by your strength span.
Because as soon as you start losing strength at age, then nothing else will function.
Really easy example here.
Most people are familiar by now with the importance of things like VO2 max, cardiovascular fitness as you age.
This is the entire crux of the wellness span versus lifespan argument.
That said, if we were to go outside right now and walk from the bottom of the stairs all the way up here, right?
And I cut your leg strength down by 80%.
You wouldn't make it up here.
Your cardiovascular system would be going nuts.
You would be at max heart rate and it would have nothing to do with your VO2 max.
It's the fact that your legs are super weak.
Your legs and your hands are the things that make you move throughout the world.
And so I call them, they are your interface with the world.
So we know that if you have a strong interface, you're more likely to do any activity that you choose to see fit.
More importantly probably is you won't opt out.
of them.
Easy examples like, oh, I'm not going to take that trip.
I'm not going to go to the grandkids.
I'm not going to do whatever else as I'm aging.
Why?
Because I know I have to carry my luggage throughout the airport.
It's going to be a huge pain in the butt.
I'm not strong enough to put it in the overhead bin.
All the steps, like, I don't want to do that activity.
Why?
There's research now that'll suggest one of the biggest driving factors of social withdrawal as you age is sense of burden.
When people feel like they're a burden to
They don't want to do anything.
Because you've been this healthy, functioning, autonomous being for six decades, seven decades, eight decades.
And now everyone is honking at you.
You know you're holding up the whole line.
The entire thing's going to wait.
And you feel really bad about that.
And so you know you can't do anything about that.
And so you're like, I'm just not going to take that trip.
I'm not going to go to that outing or whatever that thing is.
That becomes a problem.
It becomes a problem because it, as I mentioned, leads directly to social isolation.
Which is a massive driver of long-term joy.
connection, purpose.
So all the physical attributes, sure, we can directly tie those to mortality.
We can also draw joy and sense of connection and purpose.
When you lose a sense of purpose, and in fact, you have a sense of burden, mortality is right off the reservation.
We've actually seen, we actually published a paper last year, and we found that specifically leg strength predicted 5% of cognitive function through aging.
And we have both correlation and causal data behind that.
And so it's examples of movement.
It's examples of physical activity.
You're not strong, you're not gonna be physically active.
sense of purpose, isolate.
So it ties into everything all the way up to directly brain functional purposes.
There's excellent research on strength training and white matter atrophy in your brain.
So your physical brain, not your mental health, your actual physical brain is going to stay around much longer when you strength train.
And again, there are direct causal links
at this point we can make the same argument for grip strength in fact one paper found um i know that this is a very large study they looked at grip strength and low grip strength predicted 30 percent of dimension alzheimer's wow so you pick the poison you want to go after
brain health, mental health, physical, you're going to find just, again, mountains of evidence to suggest strength training, the act of it itself, as well as just being strong, is going to be holding toe to how long and how well you live.
So you just can't make an argument that you can get away with being weak and living a long time.
I think maybe the problem is differentiating these things, these items, these approaches as performance-based.
This has generally caused the issue.
I used to do this a long time ago, but if I said things like,
strength and i said is that performance or is that health right 10 years ago in my class everyone would have said right that's strength is performance right it's different now now when i throw that same slide up the kids already know that's that's a bowl thing right if i said anaerobic
Same thing, right?
Still to this day, if I said high intensity, for years, that's always going to go in that same bucket.
If you talk about exercise program, if you talk about supplementation, it's the same connotation, right?
So if you say creating for years, early 90s, mid 90s, late 90s, this is a performance-based thing.
But now you have so much evidence on the other side of the equation.
Most up and coming students now are being like, oh, this is a health thing, right?
So you're talking about research on creatine specifically.
Sure, muscle growth, muscle strength, there's 30 years of research on that.
That's very well established.
It's been tested in every population you can imagine.
Young, old, male, female, diseased populations, un-diseased, special populations, all kinds of things like that, different dosages.
And you're seeing very high safety profiles and very high effectiveness, right?
So the small issues you see with creatine, some people get kind of like nauseous or something like that from a little bit, but it's pretty uncommon.
Then you have random anecdotal reports of weird things, but that happens with physiology.
But on aggregate, it's an incredibly safe supplement to take.
Benefits are in muscle and performance, sure.
There's a little bit of research, actually.
Darren Kandow did a two-year study on post-menopausal women.
using this typical dosage for creatine that people say is like five grams per day.
He did 20 grams per day in postmenopausal women.
And they found some mild benefits in bone mineral density.
So not all the areas that they scanned improved.
Some of them did.
I think like hips area-ish did, but legs didn't or some variation.
So some plausible benefit.
It also highlights the fact that
Post-menopausal women took 4X the normal dosages for two years and had no issues, right?
No adverse events, basically, no kidney problems, no issues.
And so we're like, okay, maybe some mild benefits of bone mineral health, which is really hard to deal with, especially post-menopause, a huge deal for women.
We didn't even bring that up as a benefit of strength training, right?
And now you're either going to add some potential bone mineral density or you're going to maybe at least negate it from losing and from going away.
And then there's research on things like mood, brain health.
There's some research, recent stuff on cognitive function.
on long-term brain development, mental health.
It's a little bit of anti.
So you have so many benefits in so many areas with a high safety profile that's been tested in multiple populations and countless labs for decades that it starts to become a really hard argument that that's a performance.
it's just a life supplement it's a really high and especially when you think about what it actually directly does yeah past that you can get into any supplement you want and like on the surface you might have this mythology that it is a performance supplement but in reality it is the biggest bang for your bucks are going to be the things that remove the most amount of performance anchors so what is needed specifically based on your physiology what are the limitations in your diet
Okay, can we then solve maybe some holes there with supplementation?
Getting any supplement from whole food first is always a landslide of a win.
But if you have to use them, we'd recommend either sticking to the basics like that.
And I could certainly add more to that list.
Or if you're going to add more, make sure that they are very specific to your physiology, very specific to your blood work, very specific to some limitation you're having based on a choice you've made with your exercise or something else.
Because outside of that, then you start, you can potentially run into issues.
But the kind of high profile, high safety, high benefit ones are there.
So performance versus health, like it's not really that different to be honest.
It can a little bit.
I'd say that if you give any person any supplement, some people will come back and say, this hurt my stomach.
I mean, you could give them a placebo and some of that would happen.
So is it possible that some women might feel like watery or bloated from creatine?
Yeah.
But also like, again, we could give you any food and that could happen.
So if you're saying like on aggregate, is it a moderate risk?
No, no.
And do you see that reported a lot in literature?
No.
Have I given like hundreds of women creatine?
Yeah.
And we had a huge problem with it.
Not at all.
Okay.
Have we ever had some women come back?
Sure.
We've had some men come back and say that too.
We've given people chicken and they've come back and said it made blood.
Like, so it's not any different than like almost any other substance.
So I'm saying that because I'm very sensitive.
When somebody comes to me and says, I started doing A, B, and C, and then this happened, my general default is I believe them.
I'm not like, oh, yeah, whatever.
It's like, keep taking it.
And it's like, oh, my stomach is cramping.
Like, nah.
Like weird stuff happens.
Yeah.
It's pretty rare for us to hear that.