Dr. Alok Kanuja (Dr. K)

Hey, y'all, just a reminder that in addition to these awesome videos, we have a ton of tools and resources to help you grow and overcome the challenges that you face.

You have a normal life, but then you transform into this other thing for periods of time.

And then when you're like one person over here who's building a normal life and then like another person over here who's obsessively thinking about the limerent object, it's really hard to get a sense of like an integrated life.

So a very common feature is that people feel really, really like a sense of disintegration, like disintegration, like I'm over here and I'm doing one thing and I'm over here and I'm doing another thing.

So these are the core features, and it kind of begs the question, like, how the hell does this happen to people, right?

You can kind of think about it as like crushing so hard that it, it kind of messes up your life, messes up your sense of identity.

What is going on in them that they sort of end up with these up to seven-year-long obsessions over small interactions?

And where they're very, very paranoid about reciprocation, and they long for reciprocation to be noticed, etc., right?

So why does this happen?

So this is where—this is why it's actually taken me a couple of years, because—

The majority of the, you know, stuff out there I've seen tends to focus heavily on attachment theory.

So people will say basically limerence is a consequence of a particular attachment style.

That never really sat right with me for a couple reasons.

So...

You know, people will say, okay, the reason you develop limerence is because you have an anxious attachment or something like that.

So that may be true, that limerence has been associated with an anxious attachment, but let's understand the statistics, okay?

So 50% of people have secure attachment, 25% of people have anxious attachment, which means the way that they relate to other people, we have a whole section on attachment theory and stuff, so you can check that out if y'all want.

But basically, they're very, very concerned about abandonment.

They're concerned about that this person doesn't care for them.

They feel very, very paranoid.

They don't feel secure in the relationship.

So they engage in a lot of behaviors to pull this person in.

So people with an anxious attachment style will utilize sexual activity as a form, as a way to create intimacy.

If y'all don't know what limerence is, congratulations, you really dodged a bullet.

So they'll do things that sort of, I'm afraid that you're not going to notice me or that you'll replace me with someone else or that I'm not worthy of your love.

So I'll do everything from cry to be passive aggressive to seduce you just so I know that you're not going to leave.

Like, please don't leave.

So people with an anxious attachment style oftentimes did not have attentive enough caregivers or their caregiving was highly intermittent.

So I can't count on you to always be there.

But if I express myself in the right way, if I start to cry a lot, then I can evoke caregiving.

caring behavior from you.

And for those of you that have been struggling with limerence, hopefully today's video will help y'all understand what it is, where it comes from, what the course of it is, so what to expect over time, as well as potentially how to resolve it.

So this is a child who can't feel confident that their parents will notice them, love them, unless the child does a lot of stuff to sort of get their attention.

And that's how I sort of feel secure.

I have to do something to feel loved.

That's sort of the key feature of an anxious attachment.

Now, 25% of people on the planet are anxiously attached, but 25% of people are not limerent, right?

So even though anxious attachment is a component of it, it is not sufficient to explain out of the one out of every four people that are anxiously attached, this one to 5% of people who are very, very unlucky to experience limerence, there's a big gap between those two things.

20% of people have an avoidant attachment style that may have some relation to limerence, but probably not, right?

So attachment theory and the way that you were raised is certainly a part of it.

This is where I sort of put on my like, you know, this is just the way that I was trained.

So, you know, at Harvard, I was part of the people that I gravitated towards were what I would call the neuroscience philosophers.

So they're really, really philosophical.

A couple of generations before my time, the chief of psychiatry at Mass General was a Catholic priest.

So like these people, like, you know, there's a big tradition at the program that I trained at about being like really like philosophical and thinking about like, why does illness happen?

And then also these people are neuroscientists.

So they sort of approach it from a couple of different angles.

And I think attachment theory is a great way to start.

But I sort of lean heavily into sort of this neuroscience approach.

And if we look at limerence, there are some features of it that are basically very similar to OCD.

So if we look at OCD, OCD is obsessive compulsive disorder and is characterized by intrusive thoughts.

You don't want to think these things.

You don't like to think these things and you can't control thinking these things.

We also know that OCD is highly inheritable.

So there's like a large genetic component to OCD.

So there's one really interesting specific attachment pattern which separates limerence from

from a standard anxious attachment.

So when we think about normal anxious attachment, we're talking about your primary caregivers being unavailable to make you feel safe and loved part of the time.

So this has been a hard video for me to make.

So that there's some of the time if you cry loud enough, they will show up and love you.

So in people with limerence, there's a really interesting, I don't know if it's unique.

I don't know exactly how common it is.

We don't have a great data about this, but there's one really interesting pattern.

It's that when your primary caregiver

was unable to meet your emotional needs, there is a third party who is distantly connected who for a brief period of time gives you everything that you want, right?

So I'm a psychiatrist by training and I trained at Harvard Medical School.

So this can be something like,

oh, you know, my mom and dad, I'm going through a breakup, they're not around, or I'm getting bullied at school, and my Aunt Flo visits from a different country.

And she shows up, and for one day, she takes me out, she buys me ice cream, she listens to my problems.

This third figure, who's not part of my normal attachment system, swoops in.

and provides me with everything that I wanted emotionally.

And one of the key things that they taught us there is that, you know, you shouldn't like open your mouth unless you have data to back it up.

I'm usually a kid, I usually idealize this person, and here's what happens in limerence.

So I want y'all to think about this, okay?

So when we're a child, we learn about the world.

We start to form expectations

about the world.

And so if I'm living in an environment where my parents are intermittently available to love me, and then this magical person shows up, I have a brief interaction, so I don't get to know them long enough to where the idealization can wear off.

I have this perfect interaction.

What does my brain learn?

My brain gravitates towards the things that fulfill my needs.

So in this moment, my brain learns, holy crap,

There are perfect people who exist.

out there and this person can swoop in and this person can make everything perfect for me and they can exist.

So one of the things when I'm working with people who experience limerence, this is something I'll actually tunnel down into.

Has there been a period of time in your life where you were really struggling and we had this kind of flash of perfection from another human being who made everything okay?

And this is one of the biggest challenges with limerence because, first of all, it's not like a diagnosable condition.

And then once that happens to you, I mean, maybe it happened to you, maybe it didn't, we don't really know.

Um, once that happens to you, it becomes like cocaine for your anxiously attached little kid inside, right?

Like this is the perfect thing.

And then your brain thinks, oh my God, we found it once.

Let's start, let's try to find it again.

And this is what we tend to see with limerence, which is so confusing about it is that it, it,

You know, it doesn't happen with people that you know well.

Like, that's the whole problem is that you have this whole life over here.

You're maybe happily married.

And then it strikes from another person who demonstrates something.

And I think what's going on is in your brain, this old pattern that was really, really important and affected your developing brain now gets triggered with this limerent object who is distant and perfect.

Most people don't even know what it is, but the experience of it is definitely on the rise.

So the really interesting thing, we'll get into this more a little bit later, but is that as we get close to the limerent object, sometimes when people experience limerence, they'll start dating the person.

And as they date them, the really weird thing will happen.

Their fantasies don't become a reality.

In fact, there are all kinds of problems that arise.

And then the most screwed up thing is oftentimes their limerence will transfer to a different person.

They'll wake up one day and the prior limerent object has now become...

A frustratingly normal human being in this other person.

The limerence just shifts, okay?

So that's kind of the attachment perspective.

I now want to talk about a couple of other features, okay?

So attachment isn't really sufficient to describe limerence, right?

That's why we're kind of making this video.

So anxious attachment style, ideal swooper, let's call it that.

That's just one piece.

But there are a lot of people with anxious attachment style who don't have limerence.

So the other feature that we're going to talk about is something that's really, I think, something along the OCD spectrum.

So if we look at limerence, it's characterized by a lot of like, I don't know how to say this, but like the, you know, the nuts and bolts of the mental process of limerence are very similar to OCD.

And there isn't a whole lot of data about it, right?

And then there's another feature, which is that they're divorced from reality, right?

So this is also consistent with OCD.

So if we think about someone who is like a germaphobe, like the amount of fear that the germs evokes, like, sure, germs can make you sick.

So people won't do studies on limerence.

But the whole point is that your mind does way more with a small stimulus than, let's say, a healthy mind would do.

That's the nature of OCD.

Okay.

The other really interesting thing is that if you look at limerence, there's a lot of ritualization associated with it.

So people will do things, they will engage in certain actions to try to like, so it's ritualistic.

There aren't RCTs.

They'll do certain things to get this person's attention.

They'll dress a certain way.

Oh, this person talked to me on this day because I was wearing red.

So I'm going to start wearing red all the time.

There's a lot of ritualism associated with limerence.

And then the last thing is kind of the compulsive nature of it.

So we have to explain what a compulsion is, okay?

So it's really hard to sort of synthesize information and be able to confidently say, this is what limerence is, this is what causes it.

So a compulsion is something that you do in response to an obsession.

And this is what's kind of confusing for a lot of people.

A lot of people think that the compulsion has to be a physical behavior.

So people will think, okay, if I don't, I'm afraid that the house is gonna burn down.

So what I'm gonna do is turn the stove on and off seven times to make sure the house doesn't burn down.

So I have the obsession, this intrusive, unwanted thought that the house is going to burn down, and I have to do something in order to make that obsession feel calm.

So sometimes that's a physical action, but there are mental compulsions as well.

So a compulsion is something that we do to relieve the mental stress that we are experiencing in the moment.

So sometimes what people will do is, I worked with one patient who, for example, would say in her head, all of my family will be okay.

All of my family will be home safe.

I will see all of my family tomorrow.

Anytime one of her family members was traveling, plane, going back from work, going to the grocery store, if she became aware of it, she would have to repeat those phrases in her head forever.

So I've been working on this video for about two years and I finally feel confident enough to share something with you.

three times in a row.

And it was really, really debilitating because her mom is like, hey, do you want anything from the grocery store?

And then she has to stop studying and start going through the litany in her head.

So what do we see in limerence?

We don't quite see that kind of compulsion, but we do see a lot of mental reactions or mental responses to different kinds of stimuli or triggers.

I don't think that necessarily these people have OCD.

So this is where we also have to kind of understand something else about science.

So generally speaking, human beings in terms of, let's say, let's say this is intrusive thoughts.

You know, everyone has some unwanted thoughts.

But if we look at human beings, there is a bell curve.

The people over here have very few intrusive thoughts.

The people here have an average amount of intrusive thoughts.

The people over here.

have a more than average, or let's say greater, greater amount of intrusive thoughts.

And the people over here, this group of people qualifies as OCD, okay?

So I think basically what's going on with limerence is we have people who are over here.

So they have a genetic predisposition for something like OCD.

So what we're going to start with, I think this is the best place to start, is in 1975 there was a woman named Dorothy Tenov who wrote a book about limerence.

So they tend to have a more obsessional or intrusive thinking style, but it's not so severe that there is OCD.

Instead, what happens is we have these genetically predisposed people to OCD who then have some kind of attachment injury.

So when you take a kid who won't have OCD, so if they were more intrusive, if they had stronger genetics, maybe they would develop OCD.

But you take a kid who doesn't have OCD but is high on that spectrum, and then you put them in an anxious attachment environment, and those two things combine and limit...

Limerence sort of emerges out of it.

Then there are a couple of other features that I think sort of combine to make this pie of limerence, like this limerence stew.

It's not just OCD and anxious attachment.

There's more to it, okay?

The next thing is a tendency for fantasy as a coping mechanism.

So, for example, if you look at studies on like maladaptive daydreaming.

Right.

So this is when people daydream so much that they have difficulty functioning in life.

Right.

Sound familiar.

So we know that maladaptive daydreaming may be some feature is somewhat related to ADHD.

So your brain or your mind is not brain.

Mind is not capable of daydreaming.

restraining your attention away from the daydream and focusing on what you should be focusing on.

You get caught up in the daydreaming.

And I think the opening lines of the book are so phenomenal, it's like poetry, y'all, that I think the best way to describe what limerence is is by just reading this off to y'all.

So there's the attentional component, right?

And then you get lost in the daydream for a while.

The other reason that ADHD may be related to maladaptive daydreaming is that we know that maladaptive daydreaming is an emotional coping mechanism.

So when I am, and I'm sure y'all have experienced something like this.

So in my case, I used to be bullied a lot in school.

And so I'd have fantasies about standing up to my bully and then being able to fight them back and becoming a martial artist and this kind of stuff.

So we know that there is a normal human mechanism where when you have an emotional injury, your brain can fantasize, give you fantasies of triumph or whatever you're missing to make you feel better, right?

Because then you feel good.

Oh yeah, it's going to be good.

You get that justice boner where you're like,

yeah, like I'm going to win.

So there's sort of a tendency for fantasy.

And once again, we talked about this on the OCD side, but I think once again, we're sort of on this bell curve.

So here's the ADHD bell curve.

And if you're over here, you get diagnosed with ADHD, but the limerence people are over here with a tendency to fantasize

more than normal, a tendency to use fantasy as an emotional coping mechanism, right?

So check out the link in the description below and back to the video.

And an inability to control

their attention right this is why you have those intrusive thoughts you can't stop thinking about them these thoughts come in you can't restrain your mind and so what i'm sort of envisioning with people who have limerence is that there's like a constellation of these things they're not necessarily adhd enough to have adhd they're not necessarily ocd enough to have ocd they're not necessarily like you know it's not just anxious attachment that's not sufficient to explain it

So you think, I want you.

So when you have a brain that has a tendency towards fantasy, a tendency towards intrusive thinking, compulsive thinking, and then you have an attachment injury that may be that very specific kind where someone once shows up and saves the world for you for like an hour, then all of these things kind of mix together into a stew that results in limerence.

I want you forever, now, yesterday, and always.

And this is also why, generally speaking, it's on the rarer side, right?

I think the amount of it is increasing very rapidly.

So it seems to be way more common.

We'll talk about that, why that is in a couple minutes.

But, you know, this is why it's like, you know, on the rarer side.

The last thing that we have to talk about is there's absolutely a physiological component.

So this isn't nearly as sexy or interesting as the other pieces.

But there are just studies that show that there's a certain activation of the nervous system where people tend to be highly anxious.

They get a lot of sympathetic nervous system activity.

Above all, I want you to want me.

Their fight or flight response tends to be really, really hyperactive.

And it also gets soothed.

by their responses, right?

So if someone actually responds to you, then your nervous system really calms down.

But if they don't respond to you in the right way, there are actually features of things like nausea and like other kinds of, you know, activation.

No matter where I am or what I am doing, I'm not safe from your spell.

I'm gonna show y'all.

There are studies that show that there's a lot of like bodily sensations, GI upset, shallow breathing, nausea, headaches, tachycardia.

These are all like, so there's also like a nervous system component.

where it's not just in your head, your body responds by activating adrenaline, activating cortisol, and then that shapes your thinking.

So this, by the way, is a case conceptualization for the development and maintenance of limerence.

Okay, we'll talk about this a little bit more at the end.

So that's what causes it.

I mean, do we know that?

Not really.

So that's why it's like taken me a couple of years.

Right.

So like I read Tenov's book and great book, by the way, highly recommend it if you want to.

At any moment, the image of your face smiling at me, of your voice telling me you care, of your hand in mine may suddenly fill my consciousness, rudely pushing out all else.

Like, it's just the language in it is beautiful.

And then it took me a while to sort of try to figure out, OK, like what's going on here?

What's really like what are the features of this?

How can we understand this from a neuroscience perspective, from a genetic perspective?

Like what's really...

What is this person's experience and how can we break apart and really understand the building blocks of limerence by extrapolating from all of these other illnesses that we know a lot about?

And that's kind of what I think is going on.

OK, now let's talk a little bit about the course of limerence.

So if you are stuck with limerence.

What does this look like for people?

Okay.

So...

Once again, what we're going to do is we're going to take a quick look at Tenov's book, because I think she does a great job of describing it.

The course of limerence is as follows.

The limerent reactions begins usually at a point discernible at the time and later recalled.

So people remember when the limerence struck.

It was like an arrow to the heart, you know, like Cupid hit me.

Sexual attraction doesn't need to be experienced, right?

But the primary experience is usually like admiration, like this person is amazing, like you admire them, you idealize them.

Once limerence begins, you find yourself thinking about the limerent object and receiving considerable pleasure from the process.

So this is where that daydreaming component comes in, okay?

There's an initial phase in which you feel buoyant, elated, and ironically for this appears to be the beginning of an essentially involuntary process, free.

Free not only from the restraints, the usual restraints of gravity, but emotionally unburdened.

You may be attracted to more than one potential limerent object.

You feel that your response is a result of the limerent object's fine qualities.

So in the first phase, you feel really great.

And the reason, I don't know if this kind of makes sense, but the reason that you're so into them is because they are so amazing, right?

So you think that because they are amazing, you are into them.

It's not the other way around in your mind.

It is a justifiable obsession, a justifiable admiration, right?

The expression thinking of you fails to convey either the quality or quantity of this unwilled mental activity.

Now we get to the scary part.

With evidence of reciprocation from the limerent object, which doesn't have to be a lot, right?

So they can just say hi to you.

That's oftentimes sufficient.

You enjoy a state of extreme pleasure, even euphoria.

Your thoughts are mainly occupied with considering and reconsidering what you may find attractive about them.

So you're replaying events in your head.

and appreciating qualities in yourself, which you perceive as possibly having sparked interest in you on the part of the LO.

So like you're really grateful.

Oh, I'm like really glad I look great in red.

And that was the day that they said hi to me.

So you kind of start to have this obsessional thinking.

You're spending a lot of energy thinking about it.

Your degree of involvement increases if obstacles are externally imposed.

So this is kind of a really important segment as well, where setbacks don't really make things harder, right?

So a lot of people will say, oh, if this person doesn't text you back, like, just move on.

So one of the key features of limerence is when you experience setbacks, it doesn't push you away.

It only intensifies you.

your attraction to the limerent object.

Usually, with some degree of doubt, its intensity rises further, and you reach the stage at which the reaction is virtually impossible to dislodge, either by your own act of will or by further evidence of the LO's undesirable qualities.

Obsessed comes closer but leaves out the aching.

So what that basically means is, like, at this point, you lose control.

The limer beast has taken over.

Well, the limer beast actually took over over here.

Or you're just thinking about them brings you so much pleasure.

And so this results in a doubt and increased intensity of limerence to undermine your former satisfaction with yourself.

You acquire new clothes, change your hairstyle.

You're receptive to any suggestion by which you might increase your desirability in the limerent object's eyes.

That's why I kind of referred to it as the disintegration of the self.

A child is obsessed on Christmas Eve, but it's a happy prepossession full of excitement, curiosity, and expectation.

So sometimes people will change, but other times it's more of an experience of like, I recognize that limerence is kind of nutty and I have a regular life over here, but something about you begins to change.

Your sense of self-worth can get caught up in the way that the limerent object responds to you.

Okay.

So there are a couple of other features about the course of limerence.

Like we already said, it lasts about one to seven years.

And then this is the really confusing thing.

So, so far we've talked basically about the limerent object as being distant from you and like not really interacting with you.

So what happens when you actually start interacting when they start reciprocating or they don't reciprocate?

So how does limerence evolve with the person?

So generally speaking,

You know, you're striving for their affection.

Sometimes you get their affection.

You feel amazing.

If you don't get their affection or there's a lot of uncertainty, you start obsessing a little bit more.

You think about them more.

You think about how can I get this person to notice me, like me, etc.

Unfortunately, as limerence progresses, it like never ends well.

So even if you get their attention, oftentimes the real version of them

And this is something that I think is kind of confusing.

But so this is what's kind of confusing.

If they do reciprocate at any point in the process, if you perceive reciprocation, your degree of involvement ceases to rise until, of course, you become uncertain again.

This prepossession is an emotional roller coaster that carries me from the peak of ecstasy to the depths of despair.

So this is what's like really confusing is that actually, as you get closer to them, the triggers for the limerence actually disappear.

And if you get close to them, they no longer become this idealized object.

If you start dating them, then your limerence will transfer to someone else, which is really perplexing and confusing.

So limerence sort of exists in your mind.

It exists and is triggered by uncertainty and distance.

The nature of limerence is that it is a longing for a fantasy.

It is not a reality.

You have a reality over here.

The limerence is over here.

And if you make the mistake of moving the limerence, if all of your desires become true and they start to become a reality, the limerence actually disappears and a new limerent object can form.

And so that's one of the ways that limerence can end.

The other thing that can happen is the person can reject you, which is really painful.

But then oftentimes we'll develop a new limerent object.

And then the third thing that can happen in limerence is that we can sort of get a mixed response from the person.

So maybe we confess our feelings.

Maybe we become friends.

and back again so this is what limerence is it is this sudden onset invasion of your mind by something so there's another great paper that sort of describes this as a limer beast so it's sort of like limerence is something that invades you i almost think about it like a werewolf where like you know you're a normal human most of the time

I don't want to push this person away.

And the interesting thing about keeping them at the friend distance is it can actually intensify the limerence.

Because when you don't really confess to them, they still remain idealized.

They still remain distant.

They still remain...

You know, they're capable of continuing to exist in your fantasies.

Generally speaking, though, as people consummate the limerence in some way, as they connect with other people, as there's some degree of reciprocity, usually the most common experience for limerence is that it's disappointing, right?

So even if you move in the right direction, it doesn't satisfy you.

And once again, the reason for that is because limerence is not like a real thing.

It is a fantasy that is constructed in your mind.

And so then the question becomes, what do we do about it?

And this is where, like, I think it's really useful to think about these components of limerence, right?

So what creates it?

So, you know, if there's like a genetic predisposition for OCD, there's not really a whole lot you can do about that.

So that's OK.

But we can also use some of these like approaches to OCD.

We can use some of these approaches to ADHD, some of these approaches to sympathetic nervous system activity and attachment theory to sort of figure out.

How to approach this.

So a lot of therapists will believe that basically it's an attachment injury, right?

It's an attachment base.

So if you heal your anxious attachment style, which can be done through therapy, which can be done through stable relationships, that will be a big part of it.

So usually the way that I start this is to track back to this origin story.

So think about when did I first start to develop this idea that these fantastic relationships with these idealized people exist?

And that's why I gave you all that very specific scenario.

You know, has there been a time in your life where you felt unloved and someone swooped in and made everything perfect for you?

How did you feel at that time?

You know, like that kind of stuff, like to really just sort of process that.

Think about it.

Think about how that maps on now.

Think about the lessons that you learn.

What conclusions did you form through those experiences?

How do you carry those in the present?

Oftentimes you need to work with a therapist to really do that.

But that's kind of the direction of what I do with people when I work with them.

Also related to that is to think a little bit about what were your unmet needs at that time.

Hey chat, welcome to the Healthy Gamer GG podcast.

And you may notice that there is a correlation between those core unmet needs and the intensity of limerence.

So remember that limerence is triggered by oftentimes something within you, either a sense that you're not good enough, a desire for admiration, a desire to, you know, be worthy of someone.

There's all kinds of stuff within you that can trigger the limerence.

So it helps to kind of look back at that original episode and try to think about, okay, what were the needs that were not met within me?

Because remember that limerence is triggered by some kind of unmet need within you, right?

That's why we have this fantasy coping mechanism to make those emotional needs kind of calm down.

So really think about, okay, what is the thing that is triggering the limerence?

What is it in me that feels unfulfilled, incomplete, or unmet?

Once you understand what that thing is, hopefully you can get the process of metabolizing it, digesting it, etc.

Now, the other thing that I think is very helpful is to really take a reality-based approach.

So this is more of like the cognitive aspect of it, but to notice your mental gymnastics.

So what does my mind perceive from this person and what literally happened?

So I think a really good exercise for this is like, imagine that you are an alien observing these interactions.

What would the alien infer about what the significance of these interactions is?

When someone nods at you in the hallway, does that mean that they're deeply in love with you?

Except when the limerence becomes active.

No, right?

So this is the nature of limerence.

This is the challenge with limerence is that there's a lot of cognitive reactions, a lot of intrusive thinking, a lot of distortions.

And what we really want to start doing is noticing the discrepancy between what the reality is and everything that my mind attaches to it.

And once you get invaded by the limer beast, you kind of transform into this werewolf.

So this is where we have a memberships lecture on something in the yogic tradition called klishta.

So klishta is all of the coloring that our mind attaches to experiences.

And if you really, what's really wild about this, y'all can go watch that lecture if you want.

But like, you know, by the end of it, we were really able to understand how most of

of your experiences in life are actually shaped by what you add to them.

So when your boss says, hey, I have some constructive feedback for you and we feel terrible, it doesn't mean that we're doing a terrible job.

We may be doing a great job and our boss wants to see us do a better job.

That's why they give us constructive feedback.

It's a positive thing.

It's one opportunity for growth.

It demonstrates caring on the part of the boss, but that's not how we perceive it.

So to really start to tunnel apart and tease apart, you know, what is the reality of the situation?

What is my mind adding to the equation?

And so as we sort of take a more reality-based approach, what we'll discover is there's oftentimes some kind of negative thing that the limerence is protecting us against.

Where in your mind you have all of these obsessional thoughts.

Right.

So I don't know if this kind of y'all kind of remember, but like here's the basic mechanism.

OK.

Right.

We have unmet need.

OK.

We have our parent and then we have our swooper who comes in and then makes this better.

So then what happens is our brain develops this idea that kind of like a programming if unmet need for swooper.

Right.

Look, look for this perfect superhero kind of person who's going to fix everything in our life.

So the unmet need is what triggers the limerence.

OK, now remember that the key thing here is that when we have this unmet need and we have this fantasy, remember, fantasy is an emotional coping mechanism that decreases our negative emotion.

You're thinking about this person constantly.

Right.

So the fantasy makes the negative emotion go away.

So unmet need equals negative emotion.

Then we have our fantasy, which goes and knocks this out.

And that's why when our fantasy becomes a reality, the reality doesn't knock out the negative emotion, right?

It's not even necessarily sexual in nature, which is a feature of limerence.

So the reality doesn't actually fix the problem because now the fantasy is the mental construction, the daydream that soothes the negative emotion.

So what we need to do then is go to this unmet need.

And really understand what is it that we're afraid of?

What's the problem here?

And oftentimes what people who experience limerence will have is they'll have some sense of like rejection that they're terrified of.

And this is why all this uncertainty around the limerence starts to come up where like, I'm terrified they're going to reject me.

I'm terrified they're going to abandon me.

If they reject you and if they abandon you.

And that need goes unmet.

But you're fantasizing about this person.

What will happen?

What is this so terrible thing that your mind is so terrified of that it'll create all of these mental gymnastics?

So this central fear usually must be faced.

The cool thing is once you face it, you'll realize that this central fear, especially if you've built a normal life over here, is not really applicable, right?

I'm Dr. Alok Kanuja, but you can call me Dr. K. I'm a psychiatrist, gamer, and co-founder of Healthy Gamer.

Fantasizing about this person sort of constantly.

is oftentimes traumatic in nature.

So if you all want to understand how to digest these kinds of things, we talk about it from the yogic perspective in Dr. K's Guide to Trauma.

So this is the key thing is that the fear is not doesn't exist in your regular life.

It's something that you carry with you as a traumatic injury.

The last thing

Not the last thing.

The next thing is your sympathetic nervous system needs to be recalibrated.

being kind to you, this person reciprocating these feelings that you have.

So what we want to do is do traditional mind-body practices to tone down our sympathetic nervous tone.

Okay?

So what does that mean?

So what this sort of means is that

You know, if our if our there's lots of studies that show that yoga, Tai Chi, breathing exercises, all this stuff is going to calm down your sympathetic nervous system as your adrenaline, cortisol and blood pressure is all of these things start to drop from these practices.

This will alter the way that your brain functions, right?

Because adrenaline and cortisol travel to the brain and make us think rapid intrusive thoughts.

It's such an intense and overwhelming sense of like an obsessional love.

That's like literally what adrenaline and cortisol do.

So I want you all to think about this for a second.

When your adrenaline is pumping, you can't control your thinking.

And that's the way that it's supposed to be.

So when adrenaline is pumping through our brain and I'm being attacked by a pack of wild hyenas...

I'm going to be thinking about the wild hyenas.

There's nothing else I could think about.

And that's like an evolutionary feature.

I don't want to be worrying about what I'm making for dinner that night if I'm being attacked by a pack of wild hyenas.

So you need to work on a nervous system level as well.

And this is what I love about being like a medical doctor is that

You know, when I work with my patients, I notice that now a lot of psychologists will do meditation and things like that, but they're just not trained in physiology in the same way that we are.

So I lean heavily into this stuff.

I see a lot of great stuff, a lot of great outcomes because you're altering the nervous system contribution to this stuff.

And thankfully, like this is something that now all psychologists are learning in terms of mindfulness techniques and stuff.

So it's great.

You can also work with a therapist.

So the case study that I showed you all, which I'm going to flash to real quick, you know, so here's a paper that shows that treatment of limerence using a cognitive behavioral approach, a case study.

And limerence is something that is incredibly destabilizing for people.

This is in the open is an open access paper, thankfully.

So you guys can all get it.

But this paper is great.

I'm not going to go over this.

I think it's a bit.

So I'm not going to go over all this.

Y'all can read this if you want to.

But this is a great case study that really goes through, like, the process of limerence and how this person goes about kind of treating it, okay?

So you can absolutely work with a therapist or psychiatrist.

And so that's kind of how we deal with limerence, right?

So I think you can absolutely get treatment, but we got to understand that it is this sudden limer beast invasion of intrusive thoughts and fantasies and daydreaming and all these kind of coping mechanisms.

So the weird thing about limerence is that it can strike people who are in a healthy romantic relationship.

And it strikes people.

And we don't know exactly why it strikes people.

There isn't really great data about it.

But if this is something that you all struggle with, hopefully this will give you some pathway of at least understanding and dealing with it.

Now that I've said all that, I'm about to torpedo everything that I just said.

And it's probably something that is better left unsaid, but I gotta say it.

So the other thing, the other way that I understand limerence, actually this is good to say, so there are studies that also show that acceptance of

the fact that you have limerence and just to say okay i have limerence it doesn't mean that it's real this is just a struggle that i have i have these unmet emotional needs i have these traumatic upbringing experiences this is just how things are so studies show that just accepting that you have this problem actually helps dissolve the problem okay so if i don't accept

So there are people who are married who will like suddenly wake up one day, usually has a small interaction with someone else.

That limerence is a problem that I have.

What I'm going to be stuck in is believing that the limerence is real.

And that if this person, if I can get this person to notice me, then I will be happy forever.

But we know from studies on the course of limerence that that doesn't happen.

So until you know you're limerent, you are chasing the limerent object as a source of salvation, buoyancy, everything.

So the moment that you accept that,

Chasing this limerent object will never, it's a fantasy.

There's, it's never going to, it can't be a reality because I manufacture it in my mind.

The moment that you do that, the limer beast loses power over you, right?

Because then you stop trying to make the fantasy a reality.

And when you try to make that fantasy a reality, that's where a lot of the depression and anxiety seep in.

So the last crazy thing that I'm going to say is that, you know, there's a part of me in the back of my mind that wonders whether the reason we have limerents is

And then like they'll their mind will just be invaded by thoughts of these people.

But in the deep bottom of my heart, I wonder whether limerence is a past life karmic connection.

That in a past life, you were attached to this person.

In a past life, you loved this person.

And the ache that you have is not about this life.

It is an echo of love and connection, that kind of true love kind of crap that you may even have in this life, which I unfortunately believe in.

I believe in true love.

And that something about that experience, that love conquers all and is so transcendent.

In the Hindu tradition, we believe that when you get married, you buy yourself relationships for the next seven lifetimes.

Six or seven, I'm not quite sure.

I don't know if they count this one or seven more.

They're thinking about them all the time, thinking about like, you know, does this person notice me?

I don't know.

So there's this idea, you know, that in these karmic religions that there's some aspect of you that doesn't end with death, that carries forward, that we have these karmic bonds with people.

And I wonder whether limerence is just one of the manifestations of that.

It's not some super complicated genetic whatever the F, okay?

Now, the key thing to understand is that even if that's true, it doesn't mean that this person is that for you in this life, right?

That is a memory.

It is an echo of time's past.

It is a longing for an ex.

Doesn't mean that y'all are good together.

Do they like me?

Will they give me?

I'm going to... Don't.

I'm actually saying the opposite, right?

That this thing is over now.

But the reason... There's a good reason you have those feelings.

There's this weird ache that you have that you believe that only this other person can fulfill.

You're not crazy that this is coming from somewhere.

If you're scientifically oriented, you can use my Dr. K extrapolated OCD, ADHD, daydreaming, empathic... I mean, attachment injury, sympathetic nervous system hyperactivation.

But just because there's a karmic connection does not mean that it needs to be lived in this life.

So what I'd say is just even if you believe that, say like, OK, this is just a memory of things past.

I will accept it and let it go.

And studies show that once again, acceptance will help you.

Hey y'all, if you want more info on limerence, check out our limerence specific page.

Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other.

This is a new thing that we're doing that has a ton of information on limerence, links to additional videos, and some info on our coaching program if that's interesting to you.

The link is in the description below, and now back to the video.

So what are the features of this limer beast?

I think once again what we need to do is go straight back to Tenov's book because I think she does the best job of describing this.

Limerence has certain basic components.

On this podcast, we explore mental health and life in the digital age, breaking down big ideas to help you better understand yourself and the world around you.

Intrusive thinking about the object of your desire, the limerent object or LO, who is a possible sexual partner but not always sexual.

Acute longing for reciprocation.

This is huge.

So you want the person to, like, you have all these feelings, and when you want more than anything else is their approval and their reciprocation.

A dependency of mood on the LO's actions, or more accurately, your interpretation of the LO's actions with respect to the probability of reciprocation.

This is something we have to explain in a little bit more detail.

So people who are limerent.

Usually have like their mood depends on the limerent object, the person that you're obsessive about.

Your mood depends entirely on how they react to you.

So you'll make maybe small overtures for their attention.

And if they respond in a positive way, first of all, you read so much into it.

So this person touched you lightly on the shoulder and then you're like, oh my God, this means that they noticed me.

You feel amazing.

There's this feeling of ecstasy, this feeling of walking on air.

It's been described in Tenov's book as buoyancy.

When the limerent object responds to you in some positive way, you feel buoyant.

You feel amazing.

And when they don't respond in a positive way or they respond in a neutral way, you're left with this incredible sense of achiness, like aching deep inside

So your life becomes kind of tethered to your perception of their responses, and it feels like an incredible roller coaster.

So let's dive right in.

So another big feature of this is some fleeting and transient relief from unrequited limerent passion through vivid imagination of action by the LO that means reciprocation.

The other thing that happens is not only are you hypersensitive to what they do and what they say and overinterpret their actions, but when you are aching inside, there is oftentimes a fantasy life that you will construct.

You will fantasize about this person touching your arm or this person doing this or texting you back or finally noticing the way that you feel about them.

reciprocating your love saying oh I've been longing for you as well so there's a big component of limerence is actually like the amount of time you spend in your head fantasizing usually about small things sometimes they can be things like sexual fantasies and what that means to you so another big feature of limerence is that

So when we're a child, we learn about the world.

There are small actions that have big implications in your head.

Another feature is a fear of rejection and sometimes incapacitating but always unsettling shyness in the LO's presence, especially in the beginning and whenever uncertainty strikes.

There's also an intensification of the feeling through adversity.

So this can be them not responding to you.

We start to form expectations about the world.

Or when challenges arise in your life that are not related to the limerent object, oftentimes the limerence can intensify.

There is an acute sensitivity to any act or thought or condition that can be interpreted favorably.

and an extraordinary ability to devise or invent reasonable explanations for why the neutrality that the disinterested observer might see is in fact a sign of a hidden passion in the limerent object.

So the first is that there is a hypersensitivity to small signals from the limerent object.

So that touch on the arm we kind of talked about.

And so if I'm living in an environment where my parents are intermittently available to love me, and then this magical person shows up, I have a brief interaction.

The other thing that tends to happen is that in your mind, you will notice a lot of mental gymnastics to interpret all kinds of things.

So if they don't respond to you, and the weird thing about limerent objects is that oftentimes you don't necessarily know them well.

It can kind of strike, like you can meet someone on the street and they can say, hey, how are you?

And then suddenly you get invaded by the limer beast.

So it is very rare that limerent objects are, I don't know if I should say very rare, but it's unusually common, I should say, that limerent objects are not people that you have very close relationships with.

Sometimes you can develop limerence for someone like a coworker, someone that you do interact with.

But the whole point is that your experience of interactions with them carries a lot more meaning than what is externally observable.

So even if they don't text you back or they say, hi, how are you?

Or they don't say hi to you one morning, your mind will be super focused on these small signals and interpreting those small signals.

An aching of the heart, like literally this is like a physical sensation that people will have, especially when uncertainty is strong.

OK, a feeling of buoyancy, a feeling of walking on air when reciprocation seems evident.

Another key feature of limerence is the roller coaster nature of it.

There's the primary emotional experience of the people that I've kind of worked with who are limerent are is uncertainty.

They're obsessing over.

Does this person notice me?

Does this person not notice me?

Have they stopped noticing me?

Are they going to notice me more tomorrow?

So I don't get to know them long enough to where the idealization can wear off.

They're very, very uncertain and anxious in relation to that person.

And like we said, they're kind of hyper-focused, maybe all, or hyper-focused on small things that this person does or doesn't do, which creates a lot of anxiety.

And then also, when there is some form of reciprocation, you read a lot into it, and then you feel absolutely amazing.

So it's this kind of ping-ponging between intense uncertainty, does this person notice you, is it possible that they'll reciprocate, and small gestures that usually have

You know, tectonic effects on your internal being.

And when you feel uncertain, things become very, very painful.

There's that achiness in your heart, etc.

So the other thing that's really important about limerence is that there is a general intensity of feeling that leaves other concerns in the background.

And so this we got to talk about, too, so that there are other studies that kind of talk about this in a different way.

I have this perfect interaction.

So limerence also does something called alter the motivational hierarchy of your life.

And this is why I think that the limer beast is such a good description of it.

So if we think about like a normal human life, right, we have like all kinds of things that we're motivated towards.

What does my brain learn?

Like, so I want to do well in my job.

I want to do well in my romantic relationship.

I want to take care of my body.

I want to have fun.

My brain gravitates towards the things that fulfill my needs.

And so we have this like motivational hierarchy.

And the whole problem with limerence is that you have like a life that you are living, which is even like a somewhat arguably normal and complete life.

And the limer beast comes in and alters your motivational hierarchy.

You stop caring about the things that you used to care about, including romantic relationships, spouses, etc.

Like it's wild.

You stop caring about your career as much.

And when we talk about stop caring, you know, if I stop and ask,

ask you when the liver beast is not active, you start caring about those things again.

But there's just something about the amount of time that your mind spends thinking about this person, craving this person's reciprocation, craving this person's attention, fantasizing about it,

So in this moment, my brain learns, holy crap, there are perfect people who exist.

internal the amount of copium that you're huffing when they don't give it to you.

So it really disrupts your motivational hierarchy, and then a lot of your thoughts and actions become related to the limerent object.

And then the last feature that Tenov describes is a remarkable ability to emphasize what is truly admirable in the limerent object, and to avoid dwelling on the negative.

even to respond with a compassion for the negative and render it, emotionally if not perceptually, into another positive attribute.

So this is why I love Tanoff's work.

So when you have a limerent object, you idealize them a lot, and you take the parts of them that could be demonized, and you manage to idealize them too.

You turn their flaws into perfections in your mind.

So this is some weird, once again, kind of mental gymnastics.

And we'll get into why your mind does this in a little bit.

But this is another feature that is very common with limerence, which is that you kind of see like all these amazing, oh, this person's great.

They're compassionate.

They're caring.

They're so wonderful.

And oh, yeah, the reason they're such an asshole to the people at work is because they're just so intensely brilliant.

Their mind can't...

hold the space for normal human interactions, which is why they don't say hi to me every morning, even though I say hi to them.

out there and this person can swoop in and this person can make everything perfect for me and they can exist.

In those few moments that they do say hi, it feels so amazing for me.

So limerence has this deep obsessional quality where your mind, I don't know how else to say this, but like, I'm hoping y'all are understanding that it's really mental, right?

So it's not entirely based in reality, but there's an obsessional intrusive quality to it that dominates your thinking, performs mental gymnastics,

We've got things like Dr. K's Guide to Mental Health, personalized coaching programs, and things like free community events and other sorts of tools to help you no matter where you are on your mental health journey.

causes you to really be longing for them, and then how you feel on a particular day depends on how they respond to you.

As one person put it, their limerent object is their hobby, their passion, and their obsession.

And oftentimes, limerence leads to a disintegration of your identity.

And if we sort of understand, like, if we kind of integrate what we know about the features of limerence with sort of, like, thinking how it really affects their lives, this will make a lot of sense.