Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Appearances
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Yep. That's right. That's right. Self-fulfilling prophecy too, a little bit, huh? Yeah. Right. It's a co-created dynamic that then ends up confirming each partner's worst case fear. Yes. For sure. Yeah. Amanda, in my relationship, I'm also the change partner. I tend toward that pole. And it for sure is family of origin stuff for me. I grew up as the oldest daughter in a family system that
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
struggled. And it was, I was constantly on the lookout for what was the next thing and what might happen and felt so much responsibility. And so that is certainly the underneath layers that get missed, right? When all the acceptance partner is doing is just viewing their change partner as itchy and as you said, demanding and controlling and nothing is enough.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Yeah, it is missing that scared young kid. who needed to be vigilant for actual like survival.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
It is for sure because I think so often what the change partner is seeing is in our minds, it is, this would be good for everybody. This would be a win for everybody. So it does it right. It feels loving and it feels obvious and it feels possible and it right. And it feels like this is what I do to love you. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Right, yep. Well, and I love the way that you're saying that, Abby, that it is when the change partner is expressing, what if, or here's what I'm noticing, or here's what I'm feeling, it truly is like a desire to feel seen.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And if my history is that nothing I ever did was seen or noticed in my family, then when the acceptance partner rolls their eyes and says, here you go again, it is a wound in that exact same spot. inadvertently, but in that exact same spot. So, so many of the claims or requests or desires expressed by the change partner are really just like, I want my voice to be heard.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And the thing about hearing somebody's voice is sometimes the request may sort of like wither on the vine. You know, it may not be that it goes anywhere or actually has to change as much as just it has to be validated. That what you are bringing up makes sense. The fact that you notice that makes sense.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And sometimes it's just in the validation of it that then the change partner can be like, okay, I'm not crazy. I'm seen. I'm known. I'm safe.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Totally. And Glennon, I'd be curious to hear you speak to this because what research has shown is the more, when you raise a concern, The more the other person validates the concern, then actually over time with repeated examples of that, the less likely you are to bring a thing up.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
I don't need it. So that's what the research. So that's right. So you you are less likely to to do this thing with your business partner. The more she says, yeah, got it. Noted it. I saw that, too.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Well, and I feel my heart like so full of compassion for both roles, you know, because the one who's saying not a big deal, like they truly are like their intent is, is to help the other person feel okay. But what we know also from the research is that intent gets you nowhere. It's all about impact, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
So even though the acceptance partner's heart is in such a beautiful place of just wanting their person to feel okay, it's misguided and it is actually ineffective, right? To your example, Glennon.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Just soon. And like, don't delay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Such a burden relieved. Yeah. I can think about just, I'm like flashing on sessions with couples, you know, where one partner is saying, you know, making a criticism, even like one that's really difficult, like criticizing something about their partner's family dynamic. You know, your mom is like this, your mom and the partner has been kind of defending, minimizing it up.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And then the moment when the partner says, Ooh, my mom, when she made that comment today and you just see the other partner lay down on the ground and cry. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that we're cutting off mom. It doesn't mean that mom's a terrible person. But it just means we're moving into a place where observations can be made and contained.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And the more space there is to make those observations, then the less likely it is that anything has to blow up or lead to some big dramatic thing. And the relationship then can hold the observations. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Yes, I can see that in therapy, we call it an isomorph. Like here's the one version of it and here's the next version of it. So yes, these are isomorphs of each other and the higher level one or like not higher level, like more important, but it's like the more macro one about therapy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
If I'm in a relationship where I've been suggesting for a long time that we do some therapy together and I feel like I've had that door shut in my face again and again and again. I'm so much more likely then to be irritated by the fact that you were on the phone, to be irritated by that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
I say whenever I have like an audience of people in front of me, I'm like, go to couple therapy the first time your partner asks. When I have a couple and at the first session, it's really clear that one's been asking for so long. And the other is finally there. It's really, it's not impossible. We just have more, we've got more work to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
You know, we got to really roll up our sleeves and like spend so much time kind of taking these bricks out of the wall. And obviously both things have to happen. The one who's pushing for couple therapy needs to also say things like, rather than doing the, if you love me, you would. doing the, it would mean so much to me. And here's why it would mean so much to me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Like keeping it really personal, not like a good partner would, or you should, but really like, I get scared about X, Y, or Z, or I love us so much that I want us to be stacking the deck in our favor. Or can we just try, or can we look together and find a provider together? And I know obviously couple therapy is fraught with all kinds of things that have to do with privilege and access.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
But even short of that, can we listen to this podcast episode together? There's a way in which it just puts a relationship at risk when one partner is saying, what if we just stretch a little bit in this way? And the other partner has got their arms crossed and doesn't want to do any of it. That distance is going to grow. You know, it's going to be like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
the pebble in the shoe that just becomes such a wound. And then to your point, Amanda, is it just then it plays out, then it plays out and it's really hard to cut them any kind of slack.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Because if I'm not getting this bigger ask that feels so vital and feels like it's something we both need and would benefit from, if I'm not getting that, then of course, every little thing you do is going to feel like the bane of my existence. Tell me how that lands.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Well, one thing that happens in couple therapy is when a couple is held well by a couple of therapists, there's nowhere to hide for either of them. So I think what happens, the person with their arms folded feels like what this therapy is going to be is the therapist and my partner telling me all the ways in which I'm doing it wrong. So who would want to go into that situation?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Like I've got my partner right here telling me what I'm doing wrong. Why do I need to be paying a therapist to also tell me that? And the one who's pushing for therapy often feels like We need to go to therapy so that therapist can help me finally drill into my partner. You know, and so then what we hope happens in couple therapy is that there's just this like relational frame.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
I call it like the golden equation of love. Every model of couple therapy is built on my stuff plus your stuff equals our stuff, right? Every model of therapy has got some way of moving people out of this like simple linear story. of if you'd stop, this would get better.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
If you do more, this would get better into a more robust story of the more you do this, the more I do this, the more I do this, what we were talking about before, right? And then we both end up co-creating this thing that hurts us both. And so that oftentimes is the point where you see that reluctant partner's shoulders drop and you see them lean in a bit more. It's just like, oh.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
This is not about me being wrong and hardheaded and not getting it. This is about a way that we are each contributing to this dynamic.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Well, let's see how far we get. This is one of these questions that I think each of us carries into our relationship. I've been married. to Todd Solomon for 26 plus years and same every day. I'm like, where is that line? And so I think what we can do is operationalize it, try to understand it, help us have some tools, understand where those questions come from inside of us, given our history.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
So, and I want us to be careful that any easy answer isn't going to be an answer that sticks anyways, right? I think so much of my work, so much of this idea of relational self-awareness is not that we get to answers, but just that we create ever more capacity inside of ourselves to sit with complexity, mystery, paradox, humility, accountability, right? All of that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Because the bottom line is the people that we love most are, I mean, our partners we're talking about today, but also our kids are like these forever teachers. You know, when my husband does some behavior, I'm just like, where does that come from? Right. He's a teacher to me. I have a moment in that moment. I have a chance.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
I'm gifted the chance to look at my judgments, my fears, perhaps my longings. A lot of times the things that I judge in him are the things that actually would really benefit me from doing, you know, that man goes and lays down and takes a nap. And I'm like, There's no time for napping, you know, but that judgment of him is actually a massive invitation. As Glennon looks at Abby. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Well, Abby, you're inviting anybody who's listening to add that layer of what the culture has told you. and taught you that also that informs it's a, I mean, just such an important layer to weave in also that like that acceptance piece is a resistance and a protest and a demanding of like, I, I will not go back into any way that I've been told I have to be. Yeah. That's really important.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
It's the hardest, beautiful thing. And as you're saying that, it makes me think about grief. You know, like the grief for the years when you couldn't. accept yourself. I think about that with my own of everything. I step into every iteration, then highlights off in the grief of the way I used to live and the way I used to talk to myself or those places.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
So I think that's right for both you and John and that work. It's like also like having that space for grief, like the partner who wants to be like, See, I told you so. That desire, that urge is just a reflection of grief, right? The grief of the years that I felt like you couldn't hear me or wouldn't hear me or didn't hear me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
So to be like tender with the grief while also being appreciative of the new possibility.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Like, look at what you know. So those are some initial thoughts. It's just that it's less about figuring out the answer and more about being able to stay with the curiosity of the question.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
So. In our field, we talk a lot about these things called dialectics, right? Like there's an entire methodology of therapy called dialectic behavior therapy. Well, dialectic is a space where two things are true at the same time. These like both and spaces. Our mental health is stronger when we can sit with our own both ands.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
You know, that beautiful Walt Whitman line that I know you all love too, like that, I contain multitudes. The more that we are willing to be really compassionate and curious about our own multitudes, right? That's one level of a dialectic is I am both nervous and excited. I am both loving to be connected to people and loving my solitude. Okay, fine. So that's one level of the dialectic.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
But then we fall in love and we build these partnerships and there are these relational dialectics. A relationship needs both stability and love. changed. You know, our relationships are healthiest when there are elements of consistency and steadiness and elements of growth and change.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
The problem with a dialectic is because there are two facets and usually two people in a relationship, it's really easy for a couple to sort of do in the therapy world, we call it like splitting the ambivalence. You know, one partner holds all of one facet and one partner holds all of the other facet. And then when we get kind of split around that, it's really easy for us to
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
judge the other one's way of being. And in my world, and also in your world, most likely your pod squad is full of folks who are the ones who are always like, what's the next podcast? What's the next edge? What are we working on? How are we evolving, right? The ones who are really embracing change and growth and healing and peeling back another layer of the onion.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And so, so easily then we look at our partners and we're like, what are you doing over there? you know, and it looks like nothing. But in fact, in fact, that ability to hold steady, to hold on to everything that is bountiful and plentiful and good in this relationship right now, as it is, that's a really important energy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And I, listen, I tell you what, because I, you know, I'm sitting with college students, right? In my office hours, I teach at Northwestern. So I've got that generation and that relational moment. I'm sitting with couples and they're 40s, 50s, 60s.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
So this, and this is a transcendent theme, you know, across all relationship stages, which is that the one who's always looking for the next edge, the next layer, can we go deeper? Can we expand further? What else is possible for us? That feels like such the right way to be. And it is, listen, it's a beautiful, beautiful way to be, but there's something equally beautiful, essential,
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
and like elemental about being able to hold center and just be like, when I look at you, I love who you are. I love what we've created. I love the track we're on. I am holding center. That's not a lack of effort. That's not a give up stance. That is a quality of relationship that is quite essential. I love it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Yeah. What is the back and forth that the two of you are giving each other? Like, is it really obvious in your relationship who tends towards which?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. No, there's no derailment because I think what the, what both of you are speaking to also, I call that the power couple potential when a couple can really move from the polarization to that awareness of thank goodness. Thank goodness. We've got somebody who's got an eye on the horizon and thank goodness. We've got somebody who's holding steady because,
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
That's the power couple potential. How beautiful that there's no redundancy. There's complementarity. And in fact, Abby, what you were speaking to is that then like from that place of more true acceptance, now you guys have been able to even play with a different way of doing it where Abby has been able to grow and Glennon has held center.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And I think so often, I'm glad that you're speaking to, Glenda, when you were saying like back in the day, the way you perceived Abby in the worst of moments of this was laziness. Because that is, I mean, that's so often what happens, right? Is the change partner views the acceptance partner as lazy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And the acceptance partner views the change partner as constantly pushing and nothing is enough for you. And I think the core wound then inside of the acceptance partner is, is a fear of nothing I do is enough. And that very likely has old family of origin layers, right? Like it may start to feel like this is how it was in my family.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Yeah. So then the change partner, they're not doing it intentionally, but they are like again and again, tripping that wire inside of the acceptance partner of feeling like I'm not enough. Nothing I do is going to satisfy you. And then a fear of like, I'm going to be left. I'm going to be abandoned, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And then of course the change partner way of being is also informed by family of origin stuff very often. So when couples get locked in it, so I think for all of us, when we're in pain, we get really like myopic, you know, we just focus on our own feelings and really quite sure of our perception of our partner.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And so the way that we're talking about it now, I think invites us into that bigger perspective about the cycle and the pattern and the way that these two ways of being can really play off each other for better or for worse. So