Diana Pasulka

Oh, it's my pleasure. Absolutely.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Absolutely.

They tend to try to say it's not a physical place where these souls end up, right? But they don't know what it is. Is it a spiritual place? They tend to say it's a state of mind or a state of being. So I would look at it like a state of being for the soul.

They tend to try to say it's not a physical place where these souls end up, right? But they don't know what it is. Is it a spiritual place? They tend to say it's a state of mind or a state of being. So I would look at it like a state of being for the soul.

Yeah, like a realm, like another dimension or something like that. We would call it, like when you and I talk, I'd say... Sean, it's another dimension. You know, it's another dimension. My soul hopefully will go there. You know, I'm not saying I'm good enough to get into heaven, right? But I'm hoping for purgatory kind of thing. Because I believe in the soul. I also want to say this, that...

Yeah, like a realm, like another dimension or something like that. We would call it, like when you and I talk, I'd say... Sean, it's another dimension. You know, it's another dimension. My soul hopefully will go there. You know, I'm not saying I'm good enough to get into heaven, right? But I'm hoping for purgatory kind of thing. Because I believe in the soul. I also want to say this, that...

I should have said this earlier, that the things that I'm going to say are my own opinion based on what I've studied and how I've lived, and they don't reflect my university. So my university is a state university. It's not going to be, you know, I won't be publishing a peer-reviewed paper talking about the reality of the soul, but I believe in it. So I'm a believer, absolutely.

I should have said this earlier, that the things that I'm going to say are my own opinion based on what I've studied and how I've lived, and they don't reflect my university. So my university is a state university. It's not going to be, you know, I won't be publishing a peer-reviewed paper talking about the reality of the soul, but I believe in it. So I'm a believer, absolutely.

Probably not like it's described by the Catholic Church. I believe that the soul continues. And I believe that what—and by the way, this is based on not just what I see in Catholicism. I do comparative religious studies. So I've read stuff from ancient Egypt, and I've read stuff from Hinduism, right? You know, and Buddhism, things like that.

Probably not like it's described by the Catholic Church. I believe that the soul continues. And I believe that what—and by the way, this is based on not just what I see in Catholicism. I do comparative religious studies. So I've read stuff from ancient Egypt, and I've read stuff from Hinduism, right? You know, and Buddhism, things like that.

What almost everything I read about within these religions and people too that I've spoken with. So, you know, I have a lot of friends who have PhDs in various fields. And I ask them, you know, about what they know about this. It appears that this even goes back to Plato, by the way, and Socrates. This is the Greek tradition, the philosophical tradition. What happens to a soul after it dies?

What almost everything I read about within these religions and people too that I've spoken with. So, you know, I have a lot of friends who have PhDs in various fields. And I ask them, you know, about what they know about this. It appears that this even goes back to Plato, by the way, and Socrates. This is the Greek tradition, the philosophical tradition. What happens to a soul after it dies?

you know, after the body dies, is determined largely by what one does in one's life. So I take that very seriously.

you know, after the body dies, is determined largely by what one does in one's life. So I take that very seriously.

No, no, the word purgatory is nowhere in the Bible. It actually wasn't even codified until the 1200s. So that's late. So Jesus dies in 30. Well, heck, that's like a long time after Jesus is. But there are references to praying for souls that presumably are in another, like another place in the Bible. So there are references to that, but it's not called purgatory.

No, no, the word purgatory is nowhere in the Bible. It actually wasn't even codified until the 1200s. So that's late. So Jesus dies in 30. Well, heck, that's like a long time after Jesus is. But there are references to praying for souls that presumably are in another, like another place in the Bible. So there are references to that, but it's not called purgatory.

So, there's—in the book of Daniel, there's references to prayers said for souls that have passed on. And there are also—I'm trying to remember in the New Testament where this is. I will have to give that to you because for some reason, I used to know it, but I— Okay. Not. But, yeah. But no, in the Bible, there's nothing that references purgatory. Okay.

So, there's—in the book of Daniel, there's references to prayers said for souls that have passed on. And there are also—I'm trying to remember in the New Testament where this is. I will have to give that to you because for some reason, I used to know it, but I— Okay. Not. But, yeah. But no, in the Bible, there's nothing that references purgatory. Okay.

Okay, so if it's not in the Bible, should we be paying attention to it?

Okay, so if it's not in the Bible, should we be paying attention to it?

Yes, yes, of course.

Yes, yes, of course.

Yeah, I know. It's true. It's kind of sad.

Yeah, I know. It's true. It's kind of sad.

Okay, so I will tell you what I think, Sean. You may not like it. Okay? Okay. There are things that are not in the Bible that we should pay attention to, okay? And I'm going to talk about that. So remember when we talked about how purgatory was codified in the 1200s? The Bible wasn't even codified until the fourth century. So this is going to be 300 years to be more conservative.

Okay, so I will tell you what I think, Sean. You may not like it. Okay? Okay. There are things that are not in the Bible that we should pay attention to, okay? And I'm going to talk about that. So remember when we talked about how purgatory was codified in the 1200s? The Bible wasn't even codified until the fourth century. So this is going to be 300 years to be more conservative.

This is going to be 200 years after Jesus dies. So the early Christians, they did not have a Bible, okay? They didn't have what you and I have, what I was so interested in when I was 11. And when you start to do biblical scholarship, like really get into—and I want to preface this, too. In religious studies, we don't have an agenda. So we don't— We're not advocating a religion for any religion.

This is going to be 200 years after Jesus dies. So the early Christians, they did not have a Bible, okay? They didn't have what you and I have, what I was so interested in when I was 11. And when you start to do biblical scholarship, like really get into—and I want to preface this, too. In religious studies, we don't have an agenda. So we don't— We're not advocating a religion for any religion.

We study it. And this was as clean as I could get when I decided to do this because I was like, I just want to know. Like, I'm interested in this guy, Jesus, and I want to know what life was like for him and his followers. And so that entailed doing biblical scholarship.

We study it. And this was as clean as I could get when I decided to do this because I was like, I just want to know. Like, I'm interested in this guy, Jesus, and I want to know what life was like for him and his followers. And so that entailed doing biblical scholarship.

And where I went to school, which is this place called the Graduate Theological Union, which is the divinity school of UC Berkeley, every kind of Christian denomination is there almost. So you've got Episcopal, you've got Catholics, you've got every kind of Catholic, Dominican, Franciscans, and you also have people affiliated with UC Berkeley. So you take classes there if you go there too.

And where I went to school, which is this place called the Graduate Theological Union, which is the divinity school of UC Berkeley, every kind of Christian denomination is there almost. So you've got Episcopal, you've got Catholics, you've got every kind of Catholic, Dominican, Franciscans, and you also have people affiliated with UC Berkeley. So you take classes there if you go there too.

And so in this environment where priests are taking courses and people who are going to be ministers in the Anglican Church and, you know, they're all taking courses, Presbyterians, and they're all taking what's called New Testament. And in New Testament, you learn how the Bible was put together. And I remember— taking this class, and there were lots of people in it, like 35 people.

And so in this environment where priests are taking courses and people who are going to be ministers in the Anglican Church and, you know, they're all taking courses, Presbyterians, and they're all taking what's called New Testament. And in New Testament, you learn how the Bible was put together. And I remember— taking this class, and there were lots of people in it, like 35 people.

Every single one of those people was going to be some type of theologian minister. I think I was the only one who was going to be an academic. Every single one of those people went through trauma taking that. Because you're brought up to believe a certain story about Christianity. And when that story gets deconstructed in such a way where the teacher's

Every single one of those people was going to be some type of theologian minister. I think I was the only one who was going to be an academic. Every single one of those people went through trauma taking that. Because you're brought up to believe a certain story about Christianity. And when that story gets deconstructed in such a way where the teacher's

using the language of the Bible, which was Greek, you know, the New Testament was Greek, written in Greek, and basically showing you how it was put together, what we have and what we don't have, what other books were out there being used by Christians. This destroyed a lot of people's faith. And I know people whose faith was destroyed.

using the language of the Bible, which was Greek, you know, the New Testament was Greek, written in Greek, and basically showing you how it was put together, what we have and what we don't have, what other books were out there being used by Christians. This destroyed a lot of people's faith. And I know people whose faith was destroyed.

Some of them went on to be scholars of religion because they had that much training. They were like, well, I got to put this degree to use, even though I'm no longer a believer. I met priests whose faith was destroyed, you know, priests in formation. My faith was strengthened. My faith was strengthened because God is a God of truth. And I was like, I am not afraid to know what is the truth.

Some of them went on to be scholars of religion because they had that much training. They were like, well, I got to put this degree to use, even though I'm no longer a believer. I met priests whose faith was destroyed, you know, priests in formation. My faith was strengthened. My faith was strengthened because God is a God of truth. And I was like, I am not afraid to know what is the truth.

It's not going to make people happy, but I will learn it. And if it's wrong, I'll learn that it's wrong. So when I learned these things, I wanted to know more. So I actually extended my education beyond my PhD. So when I got my PhD, I wanted to study with John Dominic Crossan, who was at that time the foremost scholar on Jesus in the world.

It's not going to make people happy, but I will learn it. And if it's wrong, I'll learn that it's wrong. So when I learned these things, I wanted to know more. So I actually extended my education beyond my PhD. So when I got my PhD, I wanted to study with John Dominic Crossan, who was at that time the foremost scholar on Jesus in the world.

And he was teaching at Berkeley, and so I asked the chair of my department if I could take courses with him. And he was like, yes, absolutely. So I got to take courses with him and learn more. And again, it just made me stronger in my faith, stronger Christian, a better teacher, you know, for students.

And he was teaching at Berkeley, and so I asked the chair of my department if I could take courses with him. And he was like, yes, absolutely. So I got to take courses with him and learn more. And again, it just made me stronger in my faith, stronger Christian, a better teacher, you know, for students.

And I have had students who've come through, and they've been what are called biblical literalists. So a biblical literalist is a person who takes the Bible literally. It's hard to take it literally because there are discrepancies in it, which is what I knew when I was 11. I was like, hmm, this doesn't seem that God would create something that had discrepancies in it.

And I have had students who've come through, and they've been what are called biblical literalists. So a biblical literalist is a person who takes the Bible literally. It's hard to take it literally because there are discrepancies in it, which is what I knew when I was 11. I was like, hmm, this doesn't seem that God would create something that had discrepancies in it.

This must be translated wrong or something like that. That's what I thought. So I've had students who went on to be ministers of very conservative Christian faith, but were still great friends. And we would have, like, the conversation about Jesus, you know, with the demon and legion. You know that story where Jesus comes to a town and there's a demon-possessed man?

This must be translated wrong or something like that. That's what I thought. So I've had students who went on to be ministers of very conservative Christian faith, but were still great friends. And we would have, like, the conversation about Jesus, you know, with the demon and legion. You know that story where Jesus comes to a town and there's a demon-possessed man?

And the demon speaks to Jesus and says— Get away, you know. My judgment isn't here yet. And Jesus gets the demon and makes it go into these pigs, right? And thus saving this man of being possessed. And so I would read this in a certain way, and my student would read it absolutely literally. And we would have a disagreement about it.

And the demon speaks to Jesus and says— Get away, you know. My judgment isn't here yet. And Jesus gets the demon and makes it go into these pigs, right? And thus saving this man of being possessed. And so I would read this in a certain way, and my student would read it absolutely literally. And we would have a disagreement about it.

um and then uh we were still good friends and he would go on and i would say that's fine as long as you know that i'm teaching it this way and you know if you know that i'm okay with you having your opinion about it as long as you know that this is how scholars view it at this point um so we would disagree but he would go on to be a minister now what's funny is i've come to his perception of that after 10 years and going through the ufo thing i'm like

um and then uh we were still good friends and he would go on and i would say that's fine as long as you know that i'm teaching it this way and you know if you know that i'm okay with you having your opinion about it as long as you know that this is how scholars view it at this point um so we would disagree but he would go on to be a minister now what's funny is i've come to his perception of that after 10 years and going through the ufo thing i'm like

I think he's right. And if he's watching this, I believe you now.

I think he's right. And if he's watching this, I believe you now.

So, okay, so there are things that haven't been written down, okay? But we know about them through material culture. So, we know a lot about Christianity by what they decided to put, like, okay, see these beautiful paintings that you have in here? Well, I know a lot about you by looking at those paintings, right? I know that your friend painted them. I honestly thought that they were photos.

So, okay, so there are things that haven't been written down, okay? But we know about them through material culture. So, we know a lot about Christianity by what they decided to put, like, okay, see these beautiful paintings that you have in here? Well, I know a lot about you by looking at those paintings, right? I know that your friend painted them. I honestly thought that they were photos.

Like, that's some artistic talent right there. But what that means is that what is most important to us, we tend to make images of. And so the early Christians, not all of them could read or write. So they had material culture. And you see these in, like, the catacombs. And so this is where they buried their dead. And they hid out because they were being persecuted by Rome.

Like, that's some artistic talent right there. But what that means is that what is most important to us, we tend to make images of. And so the early Christians, not all of them could read or write. So they had material culture. And you see these in, like, the catacombs. And so this is where they buried their dead. And they hid out because they were being persecuted by Rome.

And so they had a lot of these images. these things that are basically called frescoes. And if you look at their frescoes, you could see what was important to them and also how they worshipped. So you see that they were diverse. So women worshipped with men, okay? So there wasn't like this strict, you know, kind of gender separation. That didn't appear.

And so they had a lot of these images. these things that are basically called frescoes. And if you look at their frescoes, you could see what was important to them and also how they worshipped. So you see that they were diverse. So women worshipped with men, okay? So there wasn't like this strict, you know, kind of gender separation. That didn't appear.

There are some written things that we should pay attention to. And some of those things we found only in the 20th century because we still do archaeology. So we found the Dead Sea Scrolls, which tell us a lot about the early Jewish community that became Christian. Jesus is Jewish. So he's in a He's not Christian, he's Jewish.

There are some written things that we should pay attention to. And some of those things we found only in the 20th century because we still do archaeology. So we found the Dead Sea Scrolls, which tell us a lot about the early Jewish community that became Christian. Jesus is Jewish. So he's in a He's not Christian, he's Jewish.

So his community, then, we have to understand it in its context in terms of what he said and the message that he brings down. He also talks a lot about the Holy Spirit. What did he mean by that? He meant the presence of God. And I think that is super important. And that's something, by the way, that I believe still is alive. And you could feel the presence of Jesus in certain communities that...

So his community, then, we have to understand it in its context in terms of what he said and the message that he brings down. He also talks a lot about the Holy Spirit. What did he mean by that? He meant the presence of God. And I think that is super important. And that's something, by the way, that I believe still is alive. And you could feel the presence of Jesus in certain communities that...

profess their you know devotion to him and profess to do his you know what he asked us to do love one another you know those kinds of things um so that's not in the bible right uh although it can be we could use the bible to help us you know create this community of believers he also instituted a community of people to carry on what he was doing

profess their you know devotion to him and profess to do his you know what he asked us to do love one another you know those kinds of things um so that's not in the bible right uh although it can be we could use the bible to help us you know create this community of believers he also instituted a community of people to carry on what he was doing

That community had some books that we've just found out about in the 1940s. And one of the—so, you know, let's understand, too, in the first century— the early Christian church was almost decimated by Rome, okay? So, you know, it's a church that had been, you know, bad things were happening to Christians and to Jewish people. Their temple was destroyed by Rome in 70.

That community had some books that we've just found out about in the 1940s. And one of the—so, you know, let's understand, too, in the first century— the early Christian church was almost decimated by Rome, okay? So, you know, it's a church that had been, you know, bad things were happening to Christians and to Jewish people. Their temple was destroyed by Rome in 70.

So that group dispersed and tried to survive. So that's how they started to write things down because they couldn't keep an oral tradition alive. So they started to keep it going. So they wrote things, and some of those things we just found. They utilized, and this is really important too, they utilized the Plato's Republic.

So that group dispersed and tried to survive. So that's how they started to write things down because they couldn't keep an oral tradition alive. So they started to keep it going. So they wrote things, and some of those things we just found. They utilized, and this is really important too, they utilized the Plato's Republic.

Yes, yes, yeah.

Yes, yes, yeah.

So the early Christians used Plato's Republic too, which is a really amazing book. And if you haven't read it, well, it's a hard book to read. Again, it's very much like the Bible because it's ancient. But it tells a very important truth. And so it seems like Socrates and Plato were also onto this one God, right, of justice and truth. And that was somehow separate from their government.

So the early Christians used Plato's Republic too, which is a really amazing book. And if you haven't read it, well, it's a hard book to read. Again, it's very much like the Bible because it's ancient. But it tells a very important truth. And so it seems like Socrates and Plato were also onto this one God, right, of justice and truth. And that was somehow separate from their government.

Thank you, thank you.

Thank you, thank you.

Their government was not— just and truthful. And so they wrote a book about it called Plato's Republic. When I say they, Plato wrote it, but Socrates didn't write anything. So Plato wrote it. But that was being used by the early Christians. So what was important for them is important for me to know. So I want to know. I'm not trying to tell anybody what to think. I am not the minister of a church.

Their government was not— just and truthful. And so they wrote a book about it called Plato's Republic. When I say they, Plato wrote it, but Socrates didn't write anything. So Plato wrote it. But that was being used by the early Christians. So what was important for them is important for me to know. So I want to know. I'm not trying to tell anybody what to think. I am not the minister of a church.

I'm not trying to advocate. But the way I do my, you know, and listen, I'm Catholic, but That doesn't mean that, you know, the Catholic Church, I'm not a representative of the Catholic Church. And I know a lot of people who are Catholic. And I look to see what people do, right? What do they do? And if I think what they're doing seems really good and righteous to me, I like that.

I'm not trying to advocate. But the way I do my, you know, and listen, I'm Catholic, but That doesn't mean that, you know, the Catholic Church, I'm not a representative of the Catholic Church. And I know a lot of people who are Catholic. And I look to see what people do, right? What do they do? And if I think what they're doing seems really good and righteous to me, I like that.

And I listen to them.

And I listen to them.

Oh, right. Wow, thank you.

Oh, right. Wow, thank you.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes.

I can.

I can.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you're talking about Ezekiel's wheel right so the ezekiel's wheel is today okay so i'm going to tell you what i know about it from a christian perspective so it's in the book of ezekiel ezekiel is a prophet okay so the bible this is the old testament the hebrew bible it is written in hebrew And this is the beginning of the Israelite community, okay? So there's Genesis.

So you're talking about Ezekiel's wheel right so the ezekiel's wheel is today okay so i'm going to tell you what i know about it from a christian perspective so it's in the book of ezekiel ezekiel is a prophet okay so the bible this is the old testament the hebrew bible it is written in hebrew And this is the beginning of the Israelite community, okay? So there's Genesis.

That describes the story of God kind of having a covenant with these men, all right, to create his people, okay? And that's the book of Genesis. And there's some angel accounts in that too I think that are really interesting we could talk about. So we get to the history of the Jewish people and you get to the prophets. So you know about Egypt.

That describes the story of God kind of having a covenant with these men, all right, to create his people, okay? And that's the book of Genesis. And there's some angel accounts in that too I think that are really interesting we could talk about. So we get to the history of the Jewish people and you get to the prophets. So you know about Egypt.

So they're in Egypt and they have to leave and Moses gets them out of Egypt. And so terrible things happen to them in Egypt, and so they need to leave. So they do. And then you get to a certain part of the Bible. It's like a history of the Old Testament. It's like a history, okay, of God's people. And so then they get to the prophets. Okay, so the prophets. Ezekiel is one of the prophets.

So they're in Egypt and they have to leave and Moses gets them out of Egypt. And so terrible things happen to them in Egypt, and so they need to leave. So they do. And then you get to a certain part of the Bible. It's like a history of the Old Testament. It's like a history, okay, of God's people. And so then they get to the prophets. Okay, so the prophets. Ezekiel is one of the prophets.

Oh, thank you for giving me two because I have a lot of kids, so.

Oh, thank you for giving me two because I have a lot of kids, so.

And again, there's a government, there's Babylon, who's basically trying to control the Jewish people, and it's not good for them. So Ezekiel offers hope as a prophet of God. And what happens to him is that he has this, what some would call a vision, but it could very well, because this is what happens when people have vision,

And again, there's a government, there's Babylon, who's basically trying to control the Jewish people, and it's not good for them. So Ezekiel offers hope as a prophet of God. And what happens to him is that he has this, what some would call a vision, but it could very well, because this is what happens when people have vision,

encounters today say with uap or what they consider to be angels or something like that they can't tell if and you see this also with paul in the new testament when he sees jesus he says i don't know if it was like a dream or if it was real i cannot tell so it's a very confusing thing that happens to ezekiel but it's called ezekiel's vision okay but i'm sure he thought it was real

encounters today say with uap or what they consider to be angels or something like that they can't tell if and you see this also with paul in the new testament when he sees jesus he says i don't know if it was like a dream or if it was real i cannot tell so it's a very confusing thing that happens to ezekiel but it's called ezekiel's vision okay but i'm sure he thought it was real

They'll love this. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I think my son wanted me to have a gun, but I don't know about that.

They'll love this. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I think my son wanted me to have a gun, but I don't know about that.

And it seems real. Okay. So he has a waking dream maybe or a vision that appears real. And it's of these beings that look odd. They have wings and they also have wheels associated with them. Okay. And this is in chapter one. So it's at the very beginning.

And it seems real. Okay. So he has a waking dream maybe or a vision that appears real. And it's of these beings that look odd. They have wings and they also have wheels associated with them. Okay. And this is in chapter one. So it's at the very beginning.

And he has this, and what it does is it gives him the realization that God's people will continue even though they're being pretty much decimated by the Babylonians. Okay, so the Babylonians are putting them in exile and they're kind of breaking them up. And he has this vision of these beings who impart this knowledge to him. Now, that is part of a vision.

And he has this, and what it does is it gives him the realization that God's people will continue even though they're being pretty much decimated by the Babylonians. Okay, so the Babylonians are putting them in exile and they're kind of breaking them up. And he has this vision of these beings who impart this knowledge to him. Now, that is part of a vision.

a mystical tradition within Judaism that I've talked, you know, when you're in my field, you get to have friends who have PhDs in areas that you don't. So that's basically one of the best things about what I do, in my opinion. I like it. I get to go talk to friends who are expert at New Testament and say— Is this tradition in the New Testament? And yes, apparently it is.

a mystical tradition within Judaism that I've talked, you know, when you're in my field, you get to have friends who have PhDs in areas that you don't. So that's basically one of the best things about what I do, in my opinion. I like it. I get to go talk to friends who are expert at New Testament and say— Is this tradition in the New Testament? And yes, apparently it is.

No, I'm just joking. All right. Well, Diana.

No, I'm just joking. All right. Well, Diana.

Now, these people won't say this publicly, so I'm going to say it. But it's called this, Sean. Ezekiel saw what's most likely a seraphim. A what? A seraphim.

Now, these people won't say this publicly, so I'm going to say it. But it's called this, Sean. Ezekiel saw what's most likely a seraphim. A what? A seraphim.

Yeah, it's a seraph. So seraphim is like the plural of seraph. It's an angel. It's a type of angel. And you've seen it before, this. It's like the eye with the wings around it, okay? And sometimes it's shown with wheels. And so Ezekiel interpreted this, and other Jewish people interpreted this to be the throne of God, right? The very throne of God. Like these were the beings at the throne of God.

Yeah, it's a seraph. So seraphim is like the plural of seraph. It's an angel. It's a type of angel. And you've seen it before, this. It's like the eye with the wings around it, okay? And sometimes it's shown with wheels. And so Ezekiel interpreted this, and other Jewish people interpreted this to be the throne of God, right? The very throne of God. Like these were the beings at the throne of God.

And this tradition is called the Merkabah tradition. And Merkabah is... literally chariot. So it's a tradition of sightings of these beings that are God's angels. And by the way, so this happens to Ezekiel. And so it then begins this new era for Jews who at this time are in exile, hope that things are gonna get better, okay? So hope that things are gonna get better.

And this tradition is called the Merkabah tradition. And Merkabah is... literally chariot. So it's a tradition of sightings of these beings that are God's angels. And by the way, so this happens to Ezekiel. And so it then begins this new era for Jews who at this time are in exile, hope that things are gonna get better, okay? So hope that things are gonna get better.

Before that, there was an interesting tradition angel encounter that Jacob had. So Jacob is one of the people who is the son of one of the patriarchs of the covenant in Genesis. And he has this encounter. He's going to meet his brother. And it's probably not going to be a good meeting because they have a rivalry.

Before that, there was an interesting tradition angel encounter that Jacob had. So Jacob is one of the people who is the son of one of the patriarchs of the covenant in Genesis. And he has this encounter. He's going to meet his brother. And it's probably not going to be a good meeting because they have a rivalry.

The night before, he has an encounter with—there's different interpretations of it, but it looks like it's an angel. It comes down—sometimes people interpret it like God or a messenger of God. It is an angel. And it fights with him. It literally fights with him all night. So he has this battle with this angel all night long. It dislocates his hip, but he refuses to give up.

The night before, he has an encounter with—there's different interpretations of it, but it looks like it's an angel. It comes down—sometimes people interpret it like God or a messenger of God. It is an angel. And it fights with him. It literally fights with him all night. So he has this battle with this angel all night long. It dislocates his hip, but he refuses to give up.

He wants a blessing from this thing. And in the end, he gets it. He gets this blessing. And he changes his name from Jacob to Israel. And again, what it does is it foretells a new era for God's people, for God's people. So me, you know, looking at these kinds of events, they're very epic. These kinds of things that happen when people have these sightings of these, you know, messengers of God.

He wants a blessing from this thing. And in the end, he gets it. He gets this blessing. And he changes his name from Jacob to Israel. And again, what it does is it foretells a new era for God's people, for God's people. So me, you know, looking at these kinds of events, they're very epic. These kinds of things that happen when people have these sightings of these, you know, messengers of God.

Okay, so I know a lot about that, actually. And even within the—in religious studies, we have a whole group of people who do look into, you know, entheogens, which are psychedelics and religions and religiosity type of things that come out of that. So indigenous people from the United States, like, you know, America— There's the Church of Native Americans, the Native American Church.

Okay, so I know a lot about that, actually. And even within the—in religious studies, we have a whole group of people who do look into, you know, entheogens, which are psychedelics and religions and religiosity type of things that come out of that. So indigenous people from the United States, like, you know, America— There's the Church of Native Americans, the Native American Church.

That's right, yes.

That's right, yes.

Okay, sure. Yeah, so it was when I was 11 that I decided to do what I'm doing now, which is... looking at religion, but most specifically then, I wanted to read the Bible, which I did. So I had an experience. So in my upbringing, my parents were secular, right, Christian, right? So that means that we didn't have a Bible in the house. We celebrated Christmas, you know, and that type of thing.

Okay, sure. Yeah, so it was when I was 11 that I decided to do what I'm doing now, which is... looking at religion, but most specifically then, I wanted to read the Bible, which I did. So I had an experience. So in my upbringing, my parents were secular, right, Christian, right? So that means that we didn't have a Bible in the house. We celebrated Christmas, you know, and that type of thing.

They use peyote, right? And so they utilize— plant medicine in order to, you know, in a very structured religious way. And they have experiences like this. So most likely there's a link there. You know, perhaps what Ezekiel sees is something that

They use peyote, right? And so they utilize— plant medicine in order to, you know, in a very structured religious way. And they have experiences like this. So most likely there's a link there. You know, perhaps what Ezekiel sees is something that

Maybe, you know, I'm not trying to... I'm very happy to say that, you know, in this environment, like a controlled kind of respectful way of doing, you know, psychedelics, this is legitimate what they're doing, you know. If one's doing it recreationally... I've seen some pretty terrible things to happen with people who aren't respecting that. You can open something up.

Maybe, you know, I'm not trying to... I'm very happy to say that, you know, in this environment, like a controlled kind of respectful way of doing, you know, psychedelics, this is legitimate what they're doing, you know. If one's doing it recreationally... I've seen some pretty terrible things to happen with people who aren't respecting that. You can open something up.

You can open up, let's just say it's a dimension because we don't know what it is, but it appears to be another realm that people can access either through psychedelics or through a religious protocol. It seems like it happens.

You can open up, let's just say it's a dimension because we don't know what it is, but it appears to be another realm that people can access either through psychedelics or through a religious protocol. It seems like it happens.

Well, they had mushrooms and my friend got some. And I already knew at this point, I don't know how, but I already knew that it needed to be done in reverence. It needed to be done. So, we actually prayed to God before we did it. And we said, if this is wrong, God, please let us know, but we're going to do this. And it was a really beautiful experience that was... I mean, honestly, it was good.

Well, they had mushrooms and my friend got some. And I already knew at this point, I don't know how, but I already knew that it needed to be done in reverence. It needed to be done. So, we actually prayed to God before we did it. And we said, if this is wrong, God, please let us know, but we're going to do this. And it was a really beautiful experience that was... I mean, honestly, it was good.

But I don't do it now. Why not? Well, because I think that I was lucky and innocent when I did it, Sean. I know, I mean, I know that it's helpful for people. I've known people to be, specifically psilocybin has helped people I know recover from things. Like, you know, say they were on the front and, you know, in various tours of duty. And they've been helped by treatment.

But I don't do it now. Why not? Well, because I think that I was lucky and innocent when I did it, Sean. I know, I mean, I know that it's helpful for people. I've known people to be, specifically psilocybin has helped people I know recover from things. Like, you know, say they were on the front and, you know, in various tours of duty. And they've been helped by treatment.

So I guess what I guess my position is, and I don't guess this is my position, is that When done with the correct intention, I think it's good and all right. Without that intention, it's dangerous. And for this reason, that it perhaps will open something up. And it could be that you do meet something, like another being of some sort, you know, that we've been talking about.

So I guess what I guess my position is, and I don't guess this is my position, is that When done with the correct intention, I think it's good and all right. Without that intention, it's dangerous. And for this reason, that it perhaps will open something up. And it could be that you do meet something, like another being of some sort, you know, that we've been talking about.

And that being could be good or it could be bad. Both exist, in my opinion.

And that being could be good or it could be bad. Both exist, in my opinion.

Right. Or is it both? Yeah. Okay, so I believe it's a real realm.

Right. Or is it both? Yeah. Okay, so I believe it's a real realm.

So I had never read it. I And I didn't actually know the story of Jesus. I knew, of course, Jesus Christ. Everybody does. But I actually didn't know the story. So it was on an Easter. And I was doing Easter eggs at the table. And the TV was on. And Franco Zeffirelli's Jesus of Nazareth was on the TV. So I was somewhat watching it, but not really paying attention. And I was doing the Easter eggs.

So I had never read it. I And I didn't actually know the story of Jesus. I knew, of course, Jesus Christ. Everybody does. But I actually didn't know the story. So it was on an Easter. And I was doing Easter eggs at the table. And the TV was on. And Franco Zeffirelli's Jesus of Nazareth was on the TV. So I was somewhat watching it, but not really paying attention. And I was doing the Easter eggs.

And I don't think—the reason I believe that is because if you do what's called field research and talk to people either who access this realm without psychedelics and then those who access it with psychedelics, a lot of times they're talking about similar types of things that happen in those realms, like certain experiences, certain things that they meet, like entities and things like that.

And I don't think—the reason I believe that is because if you do what's called field research and talk to people either who access this realm without psychedelics and then those who access it with psychedelics, a lot of times they're talking about similar types of things that happen in those realms, like certain experiences, certain things that they meet, like entities and things like that.

And so that would indicate to me that that is a real realm. How we access it, I don't know. I do know, though, that if we, I know we're not talking UAP right now, but when I met people who were in the government who were studying UAP, who are studying UAP, they're very interested in this realm. They're interested in this as, like, consciousness is an access point.

And so that would indicate to me that that is a real realm. How we access it, I don't know. I do know, though, that if we, I know we're not talking UAP right now, but when I met people who were in the government who were studying UAP, who are studying UAP, they're very interested in this realm. They're interested in this as, like, consciousness is an access point.

So our consciousness can access and things can access us through, I would call, you know, through something that we have in our consciousness. I think that we're at the very beginning of understanding it, and I think we should be really careful.

So our consciousness can access and things can access us through, I would call, you know, through something that we have in our consciousness. I think that we're at the very beginning of understanding it, and I think we should be really careful.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, yes. Okay. So, this gets really scary, though, because it could be that there are, like, I've met people who have been doing ayahuasca, right? And they do it fairly consistently, I guess, right? And they've been, and I've had they've told me that they've been what they call, and I'm not putting words in their mouth, they've been possessed, okay? And what they described to me,

Well, yes. Okay. So, this gets really scary, though, because it could be that there are, like, I've met people who have been doing ayahuasca, right? And they do it fairly consistently, I guess, right? And they've been, and I've had they've told me that they've been what they call, and I'm not putting words in their mouth, they've been possessed, okay? And what they described to me,

is something that I've heard within the Christian tradition of being possessed. Or even in like, it happens in most religious traditions, by the way. It doesn't just happen in the Christian tradition. Possession by something that is bad and is harmful. And so it could be that something like that could happen if one's not possessed. prepared to deal with the realm.

is something that I've heard within the Christian tradition of being possessed. Or even in like, it happens in most religious traditions, by the way. It doesn't just happen in the Christian tradition. Possession by something that is bad and is harmful. And so it could be that something like that could happen if one's not possessed. prepared to deal with the realm.

And at some point, there was the scene where the mob is just about to kill this woman. So there's this mob of men, and it's this woman who's an adulterer, and they're going to stone her to death. And of course, it's super dramatic. And I'm doing the Easter egg, and I look at that, and Jesus is writing something in the sand. And I'm like, well, he's got to stop this. This is terrible.

And at some point, there was the scene where the mob is just about to kill this woman. So there's this mob of men, and it's this woman who's an adulterer, and they're going to stone her to death. And of course, it's super dramatic. And I'm doing the Easter egg, and I look at that, and Jesus is writing something in the sand. And I'm like, well, he's got to stop this. This is terrible.

There is a reason in the Jewish tradition that people, and by the way, you also get this in the Greek tradition. So when I say I'm looking at this from a meta perspective, not just from each tradition. So I feel blessed actually to be able to have studied this from multiple different religious traditions and secular traditions and philosophical traditions. And so when a person goes through life

There is a reason in the Jewish tradition that people, and by the way, you also get this in the Greek tradition. So when I say I'm looking at this from a meta perspective, not just from each tradition. So I feel blessed actually to be able to have studied this from multiple different religious traditions and secular traditions and philosophical traditions. And so when a person goes through life

preparing themselves to access these, what we'll just call in this conversation, these other dimensions, right, this realm, they've been prepared. Like, they've been prepared. They have a group of people to help them, like in the Merkaba tradition. You don't do it until you're in your 40s. You know, you have to actually have gone through maturation. You have to prepare your brain.

preparing themselves to access these, what we'll just call in this conversation, these other dimensions, right, this realm, they've been prepared. Like, they've been prepared. They have a group of people to help them, like in the Merkaba tradition. You don't do it until you're in your 40s. You know, you have to actually have gone through maturation. You have to prepare your brain.

The Greek tradition, in the Greek tradition, the Socratic tradition, you prepared your brain by doing math. You were an athlete. A lot of them were—they were kind of like MMA fighters, right? They were wrestlers and stuff, so they trained their bodies. So, you know, most people are not like that.

The Greek tradition, in the Greek tradition, the Socratic tradition, you prepared your brain by doing math. You were an athlete. A lot of them were—they were kind of like MMA fighters, right? They were wrestlers and stuff, so they trained their bodies. So, you know, most people are not like that.

Most people are not—they're just going through life, and they're doing their job, and then they want to do this thing. You know, they want to go down and do ayahuasca. And— Maybe five times it works well for them. But on their sixth time, it's the worst thing that has ever happened to them in their life. And it has PTSD repercussions for them. You know, that's what I'm saying. That type of thing.

Most people are not—they're just going through life, and they're doing their job, and then they want to do this thing. You know, they want to go down and do ayahuasca. And— Maybe five times it works well for them. But on their sixth time, it's the worst thing that has ever happened to them in their life. And it has PTSD repercussions for them. You know, that's what I'm saying. That type of thing.

I know people that have had that happen to them. So that's why I'm on the conservative side of that.

I know people that have had that happen to them. So that's why I'm on the conservative side of that.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay, so in almost every major religious tradition, you have a tradition of this. And they're usually called monastic communities, communities of monks and nuns. Or like they're called in Hinduism sannyasins, you know, renunciates. But – and even you have this in – like I talked about Socrates and Plato in the Greek philosophical tradition. You have a group of people who –

Okay, so in almost every major religious tradition, you have a tradition of this. And they're usually called monastic communities, communities of monks and nuns. Or like they're called in Hinduism sannyasins, you know, renunciates. But – and even you have this in – like I talked about Socrates and Plato in the Greek philosophical tradition. You have a group of people who –

go off, live together, and help each other. In Buddhism, it's called the Sangha, right? It's a community of people helping each other become ready to access realms that provide knowledge, wisdom, truth, things like that. And these realms, I'm what's called a moral realist. That's a philosophical position that believes that things like truth and justice, these are real things.

go off, live together, and help each other. In Buddhism, it's called the Sangha, right? It's a community of people helping each other become ready to access realms that provide knowledge, wisdom, truth, things like that. And these realms, I'm what's called a moral realist. That's a philosophical position that believes that things like truth and justice, these are real things.

And if humans died, they would still exist. Truth and justice would still exist. I believe that. And that only comes from living my life for as long as I've lived and going through the training that I've gone through. There are lots of people that aren't moral realists. Most people are not, I would say. But once a person has a taste,

And if humans died, they would still exist. Truth and justice would still exist. I believe that. And that only comes from living my life for as long as I've lived and going through the training that I've gone through. There are lots of people that aren't moral realists. Most people are not, I would say. But once a person has a taste,

that this realm exists and that truth and beauty exists and that you feel it. And it's something amazing, right? Like, I feel like Jimi Hendrix knew about this, you know, through his experiences with psychedelics, you know, are you experienced? He was experienced. And he says, not just stone, but beautiful.

that this realm exists and that truth and beauty exists and that you feel it. And it's something amazing, right? Like, I feel like Jimi Hendrix knew about this, you know, through his experiences with psychedelics, you know, are you experienced? He was experienced. And he says, not just stone, but beautiful.

Well, I understood that, you know, and I understood that not from the... Now, he was dead, by the way, when I was exposed to his work. But... But yeah, so once a person recognizes that that stuff is worthwhile, then one wants to go through those training, get through that protocol, go through those communities.

Well, I understood that, you know, and I understood that not from the... Now, he was dead, by the way, when I was exposed to his work. But... But yeah, so once a person recognizes that that stuff is worthwhile, then one wants to go through those training, get through that protocol, go through those communities.

Do you think... And by the way, this is also what helps people deal if there is something that one encounters that's not truth and beauty. And there are those things, obviously.

Do you think... And by the way, this is also what helps people deal if there is something that one encounters that's not truth and beauty. And there are those things, obviously.

And so he looks up and he says, Those among you with sin cast the first stone. And that converted me somehow. Somehow, to me, that was something that reversed the law because it was the law that she be stoned. But he reversed it. And I thought—I was a pretty serious kid, and I knew that— You know, people did bad things and, you know, there was bad in the world.

And so he looks up and he says, Those among you with sin cast the first stone. And that converted me somehow. Somehow, to me, that was something that reversed the law because it was the law that she be stoned. But he reversed it. And I thought—I was a pretty serious kid, and I knew that— You know, people did bad things and, you know, there was bad in the world.

I do. In those dimensions.

I do. In those dimensions.

Emphatically, yes. So in my opinion, I just spoke to a young man here on your team. He told me, he's 25, he told me about his experience of school, which was horrible, horrible experience when I know, right? We don't teach kids this. Our culture is completely evacuated of the reality of this, that it's real. And there might be means of accessing, you know, these amazing things.

Emphatically, yes. So in my opinion, I just spoke to a young man here on your team. He told me, he's 25, he told me about his experience of school, which was horrible, horrible experience when I know, right? We don't teach kids this. Our culture is completely evacuated of the reality of this, that it's real. And there might be means of accessing, you know, these amazing things.

Yeah, so if you took... Even when we do teach it, we teach it as if, like I did, sadly, for a while. Teaching it like it wasn't actually real when we taught Plato's Republic and the kinds of things that he would talk about in his dialogues. But they're real. And what if I, you know, and I teach them now, like, they really believe these guys, you know? Like, wow, do they exist?

Yeah, so if you took... Even when we do teach it, we teach it as if, like I did, sadly, for a while. Teaching it like it wasn't actually real when we taught Plato's Republic and the kinds of things that he would talk about in his dialogues. But they're real. And what if I, you know, and I teach them now, like, they really believe these guys, you know? Like, wow, do they exist?

And I go, I believe they exist, but I'm not saying that you should believe they exist. I personally do. And so that makes an impact on a young person. So what I'm saying is that they crave this. Like, don't you? Like you say, you keep going back, you know? This is something that we need as human beings. It's something that we've been deprived of.

And I go, I believe they exist, but I'm not saying that you should believe they exist. I personally do. And so that makes an impact on a young person. So what I'm saying is that they crave this. Like, don't you? Like you say, you keep going back, you know? This is something that we need as human beings. It's something that we've been deprived of.

I was just going to ask you that. I was going to say, okay, it sounds like Sean is doing this in the kind of environment where there's reverence and respect.

I was just going to ask you that. I was going to say, okay, it sounds like Sean is doing this in the kind of environment where there's reverence and respect.

So to me, this could be something I thought this was hopeful. This was like a person who provided some type of hope. So I decided that I'd watch the show because it started on Friday and I believe that was probably Friday night. and kept going on Saturday and then ended on Sunday, Easter Sunday.

So to me, this could be something I thought this was hopeful. This was like a person who provided some type of hope. So I decided that I'd watch the show because it started on Friday and I believe that was probably Friday night. and kept going on Saturday and then ended on Sunday, Easter Sunday.

No, those are in Hebrew and the type of Hebrew I'm not. And in fact, even probably, oh gosh, they're not the language that I would be able to crack the code of them. But I do know about that community and I have friends who study them. So that's how I have knowledge of them. So within the field of religious studies, there's so many things you can't know everything.

No, those are in Hebrew and the type of Hebrew I'm not. And in fact, even probably, oh gosh, they're not the language that I would be able to crack the code of them. But I do know about that community and I have friends who study them. So that's how I have knowledge of them. So within the field of religious studies, there's so many things you can't know everything.

And knowing that type, even if you know the language, you have to know that specific language from that time period.

And knowing that type, even if you know the language, you have to know that specific language from that time period.

Yeah, so I'm the last person, by the way, who would be talking about UFOs if you talked to me, you know, 14 years ago. And nobody would say that I would be talking about UFOs. Anybody you talk to who knows me would, Diana's talking about UFOs. So this happened because of the purgatory book. So I had created that log of aerial phenomena, historical aerial phenomena. And I thought it was weird.

Yeah, so I'm the last person, by the way, who would be talking about UFOs if you talked to me, you know, 14 years ago. And nobody would say that I would be talking about UFOs. Anybody you talk to who knows me would, Diana's talking about UFOs. So this happened because of the purgatory book. So I had created that log of aerial phenomena, historical aerial phenomena. And I thought it was weird.

And so I showed my friend, and we went to this conference where I met people who had these experiences, and they were telling me things that looked like a pattern match to what I was studying. So I thought, I'll go ahead and look at this a little bit further, but I didn't tell anybody. I was just kind of like doing an analysis. And then I thought, you know, this is interesting.

And so I showed my friend, and we went to this conference where I met people who had these experiences, and they were telling me things that looked like a pattern match to what I was studying. So I thought, I'll go ahead and look at this a little bit further, but I didn't tell anybody. I was just kind of like doing an analysis. And then I thought, you know, this is interesting.

It's basically a modern day ascent narrative, you know, the ascent of the soul, right? So if you see images of like people being abducted or cows being abducted, you'll see the cow rising into, you know, ascending into the spaceships. You know, the people, the farmer being ascended. We see the same thing with images of purgatory. You see like, maybe not cows, of course, but you know,

It's basically a modern day ascent narrative, you know, the ascent of the soul, right? So if you see images of like people being abducted or cows being abducted, you'll see the cow rising into, you know, ascending into the spaceships. You know, the people, the farmer being ascended. We see the same thing with images of purgatory. You see like, maybe not cows, of course, but you know,

European Catholics will be ascending into, like, you know, their souls ascending, but it shows them ascending. So I thought this is like a modern-day ascent narrative. I could use my methods for studying this, no problem. This is—I won't—it won't discredit me to study this, right? So I started to do this study, and it was really interesting. And then what happened was I started to get—

European Catholics will be ascending into, like, you know, their souls ascending, but it shows them ascending. So I thought this is like a modern-day ascent narrative. I could use my methods for studying this, no problem. This is—I won't—it won't discredit me to study this, right? So I started to do this study, and it was really interesting. And then what happened was I started to get—

emails and phone calls from aerospace engineers, people from known aerospace corporations and institutions. And they wanted to talk to me about my research that I was doing. I was like, wait, I think you got the wrong person. No. So, and this kept happening. And I decided, okay, they wanted to meet with me. A couple of them wanted to meet with me.

emails and phone calls from aerospace engineers, people from known aerospace corporations and institutions. And they wanted to talk to me about my research that I was doing. I was like, wait, I think you got the wrong person. No. So, and this kept happening. And I decided, okay, they wanted to meet with me. A couple of them wanted to meet with me.

So I thought, okay, I'll meet with them because why do they want to know about this angel event that happened in the 1800s?

So I thought, okay, I'll meet with them because why do they want to know about this angel event that happened in the 1800s?

I started to do conferences with the people that I know who are religious. other professors of religion. And for us, it was like, oh yeah, modern day ascent narrative, you know, easy to understand. But they would then somehow were scouring like the internet of any academic who is doing, you know, the word UFO or anything like that. And that's how they found me.

I started to do conferences with the people that I know who are religious. other professors of religion. And for us, it was like, oh yeah, modern day ascent narrative, you know, easy to understand. But they would then somehow were scouring like the internet of any academic who is doing, you know, the word UFO or anything like that. And that's how they found me.

And so I kept watching, and my parents thought it was strange because they never really cared about that stuff before. But every day I woke up and I was like, I'm going to watch this show tonight. And now this sounds ridiculous, but it's actually true. I didn't know that he was crucified at the very end. So at the very end, he gets crucified. And to me, it was devastating because—

And so I kept watching, and my parents thought it was strange because they never really cared about that stuff before. But every day I woke up and I was like, I'm going to watch this show tonight. And now this sounds ridiculous, but it's actually true. I didn't know that he was crucified at the very end. So at the very end, he gets crucified. And to me, it was devastating because—

And once I was found, a lot of them reached out to me. And at first I was a little bit put off because I thought, This is kind of odd. It kind of freaked me out, to tell you the truth. But I did start to talk to them. And one of them, I actually put him off for like a year and a half. I mean, I know it sounds weird, but I had five young kids, and I was— Busy, right?

And once I was found, a lot of them reached out to me. And at first I was a little bit put off because I thought, This is kind of odd. It kind of freaked me out, to tell you the truth. But I did start to talk to them. And one of them, I actually put him off for like a year and a half. I mean, I know it sounds weird, but I had five young kids, and I was— Busy, right?

So I didn't make this connection. I thought it was weird. But when I started to talk to them, I recognized that they weren't looking at it like I was looking at it. They were looking at it like it actually happened. Whereas I was looking at it more like a metaphor. Like, you know, this is something, this is their interpretation of something they saw in the sky.

So I didn't make this connection. I thought it was weird. But when I started to talk to them, I recognized that they weren't looking at it like I was looking at it. They were looking at it like it actually happened. Whereas I was looking at it more like a metaphor. Like, you know, this is something, this is their interpretation of something they saw in the sky.

They wanted to know what they saw in the sky. They also wanted to know what kinds of things happened to these people. Like, were they injured? And a lot of times they were. And so that started to get me to like re-look at what I was doing. And I started to look at it from their perspective. And I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I think that these things are probably real. And that was shocking.

They wanted to know what they saw in the sky. They also wanted to know what kinds of things happened to these people. Like, were they injured? And a lot of times they were. And so that started to get me to like re-look at what I was doing. And I started to look at it from their perspective. And I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I think that these things are probably real. And that was shocking.

So I was shocked for a whole year. What I did was, thankfully, I had a friend, Jeff Kripal at Rice University. And I shared all my stuff with him. And he was shocked too, by the way.

So I was shocked for a whole year. What I did was, thankfully, I had a friend, Jeff Kripal at Rice University. And I shared all my stuff with him. And he was shocked too, by the way.

Okay, so the turning point was when I met a person who I have to call Tyler because he's anonymous. One of these people that when I look back now, I recognize worked for one of these SAPs most likely. I can't prove it, but it looks like it. So he worked for— Can you describe SAP for the audience, please?

Okay, so the turning point was when I met a person who I have to call Tyler because he's anonymous. One of these people that when I look back now, I recognize worked for one of these SAPs most likely. I can't prove it, but it looks like it. So he worked for— Can you describe SAP for the audience, please?

It's called a special access program in the military, and he worked for an unacknowledged SAP company. And he described his work as a hobby. This was in 2013. He described his work as a hobby. He had lots of clearances from different agencies, Department of Defense and like NASA, like a lot. And he worked as a mission controller and he also worked as this, he was like a space shuttle.

It's called a special access program in the military, and he worked for an unacknowledged SAP company. And he described his work as a hobby. This was in 2013. He described his work as a hobby. He had lots of clearances from different agencies, Department of Defense and like NASA, like a lot. And he worked as a mission controller and he also worked as this, he was like a space shuttle.

He worked in the space shuttle program for his duration until it ended. He was always at a launch of the space shuttle. He also did scientific stuff. So he was this character that I didn't quite understand when I first met him. And he really wanted to know the data. So he wanted to know, he really was interested in any work that I would do at the Vatican.

He worked in the space shuttle program for his duration until it ended. He was always at a launch of the space shuttle. He also did scientific stuff. So he was this character that I didn't quite understand when I first met him. And he really wanted to know the data. So he wanted to know, he really was interested in any work that I would do at the Vatican.

And he was also interested in any work that I did that had to do with consciousness. Because he said that in his field, he said, consciousness is the next step. That's where we are studying. And that's why we're interested in your work. And so, again, I was really slow to work with him because I was concerned. I was concerned about what it would mean for my life. It might change my life.

And he was also interested in any work that I did that had to do with consciousness. Because he said that in his field, he said, consciousness is the next step. That's where we are studying. And that's why we're interested in your work. And so, again, I was really slow to work with him because I was concerned. I was concerned about what it would mean for my life. It might change my life.

And it did. It did change my life. So that's what changed is that I started to look at the Catholic tradition again from a new lens. So I had looked at like Teresa of Avila, this nun who lived in the 1500s. And she had an experience with one of these seraphs, or an angel, right? But she didn't call it an angel at first.

And it did. It did change my life. So that's what changed is that I started to look at the Catholic tradition again from a new lens. So I had looked at like Teresa of Avila, this nun who lived in the 1500s. And she had an experience with one of these seraphs, or an angel, right? But she didn't call it an angel at first.

You know, I couldn't believe it. I was like, wow, he actually, you know, provided some hope to these people. And now he's being crucified. So my mom was observing this and thought it was really strange. I had tears. And so the next day I made my mother take me to a Bible store to buy the Bible. She didn't know what to get.

You know, I couldn't believe it. I was like, wow, he actually, you know, provided some hope to these people. And now he's being crucified. So my mom was observing this and thought it was really strange. I had tears. And so the next day I made my mother take me to a Bible store to buy the Bible. She didn't know what to get.

So I went back and I looked at these experiences that these people had that we now, when we look at them, we see the nice prayer cards, and it looks really like a sweet kind of encounter that they had. But really, the encounter, when you read the primary source material that you see in the archives, It looks really different than how it's represented.

So I went back and I looked at these experiences that these people had that we now, when we look at them, we see the nice prayer cards, and it looks really like a sweet kind of encounter that they had. But really, the encounter, when you read the primary source material that you see in the archives, It looks really different than how it's represented.

And that was shocking to me because— Which archives? Okay, so there are two main archives that hold—there's lots of different archives. But the ones that hold lots of information about this, first is the Vatican Archive. And the Vatican—it used to be called the Vatican Secret Archive— but it's called the Apostolic Archive and it's the Pope's Archive. And you have to, you can't just go to that.

And that was shocking to me because— Which archives? Okay, so there are two main archives that hold—there's lots of different archives. But the ones that hold lots of information about this, first is the Vatican Archive. And the Vatican—it used to be called the Vatican Secret Archive— but it's called the Apostolic Archive and it's the Pope's Archive. And you have to, you can't just go to that.

You have to actually have certain credentials to get into it. And so I have those credentials. So I was able to go there and I was able to look at the primary source material for Some of the saints in the Catholic and Christian tradition that had angel events or levitated and had anomalous activity.

You have to actually have certain credentials to get into it. And so I have those credentials. So I was able to go there and I was able to look at the primary source material for Some of the saints in the Catholic and Christian tradition that had angel events or levitated and had anomalous activity.

And I was able to look at that and assess the primary source data on my own, which is really fascinating. So I did that work.

And I was able to look at that and assess the primary source data on my own, which is really fascinating. So I did that work.

Oh, yeah, all of the saints. So once you start to look at the saints, you see that what is said about, what was said in the very, there are what are called primary source material. This would be some of the first material that comes out about that experience that that saint had. Teresa of Avila wrote her own experience. That's what makes it so important is that she wrote about it.

Oh, yeah, all of the saints. So once you start to look at the saints, you see that what is said about, what was said in the very, there are what are called primary source material. This would be some of the first material that comes out about that experience that that saint had. Teresa of Avila wrote her own experience. That's what makes it so important is that she wrote about it.

It was later what's called redacted. It was changed. by the church. She said she saw this angel and it wasn't a vision, it was in reality. And she said that it was short and it was shiny and she was confused because it didn't look like an angel. And she goes, well, it must be a cherub, right? So she had confusion about it. And it had a dart.

It was later what's called redacted. It was changed. by the church. She said she saw this angel and it wasn't a vision, it was in reality. And she said that it was short and it was shiny and she was confused because it didn't look like an angel. And she goes, well, it must be a cherub, right? So she had confusion about it. And it had a dart.

And she said, this dart it took and it basically put it in me, right? So this looks like modern day UFO abduction reports. And so once you start to see those connections, you cannot unsee them. And you're like, okay, got it. This is different than how it's represented in the prayer card, right? Where it's beautiful. And I hope that I'm not offending the Catholics that are looking at this.

And she said, this dart it took and it basically put it in me, right? So this looks like modern day UFO abduction reports. And so once you start to see those connections, you cannot unsee them. And you're like, okay, got it. This is different than how it's represented in the prayer card, right? Where it's beautiful. And I hope that I'm not offending the Catholics that are looking at this.

Because it's their childhood. They were brought up with these images.

Because it's their childhood. They were brought up with these images.

Oh, because we have the redactions.

Oh, because we have the redactions.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I have those.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I have those.

It didn't conform to their theology. So— It happens all the time. It even happens today. So you're saying that the—

It didn't conform to their theology. So— It happens all the time. It even happens today. So you're saying that the—

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

you know so we asked the clerk you know this is my first bible in fact it's our only bible you know what what should we get so we got this red letter edition of the king james version of the bible and the red letter edition for people who don't know it's the edition that has jesus's words all in red and to me that was exactly what i wanted so we got the red letter edition i brought it home started reading it right away from beginning right

you know so we asked the clerk you know this is my first bible in fact it's our only bible you know what what should we get so we got this red letter edition of the king james version of the bible and the red letter edition for people who don't know it's the edition that has jesus's words all in red and to me that was exactly what i wanted so we got the red letter edition i brought it home started reading it right away from beginning right

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, well, yes. Because people didn't read as much as they read now. And they weren't betting on us, you know, going back and looking at it. And it doesn't matter to them now. They're okay with it. Like, literally, they're okay with it. They're like, yeah, we did that.

Yeah, well, yes. Because people didn't read as much as they read now. And they weren't betting on us, you know, going back and looking at it. And it doesn't matter to them now. They're okay with it. Like, literally, they're okay with it. They're like, yeah, we did that.

Because, you know, they didn't do it today. They weren't the ones that did it. But the Catholics, after Teresa had her experience and told the priests that were her quote-unquote confessors, those were kind of like a therapist, you know? You know, they were priests.

Because, you know, they didn't do it today. They weren't the ones that did it. But the Catholics, after Teresa had her experience and told the priests that were her quote-unquote confessors, those were kind of like a therapist, you know? You know, they were priests.

I think it happens in every religion, to tell you the truth.

I think it happens in every religion, to tell you the truth.

So, you know, we can get angry at the Catholics, but in every religion, a person has an event that's a legitimate event that is profound for them. And then they tell that event and it changes people's lives. And then that religion is like, that didn't happen, kind of thing. You know, they redact it. It's happening now with the UFO topic.

So, you know, we can get angry at the Catholics, but in every religion, a person has an event that's a legitimate event that is profound for them. And then they tell that event and it changes people's lives. And then that religion is like, that didn't happen, kind of thing. You know, they redact it. It's happening now with the UFO topic.

Oh, yeah, they're okay with it.

Oh, yeah, they're okay with it.

But I'm sorry.

But I'm sorry.

No, I know. It's shocking. Yes, it's shocking what you like. This is why people had their faith challenged in that class I told you about. Their faith, boom, gone.

No, I know. It's shocking. Yes, it's shocking what you like. This is why people had their faith challenged in that class I told you about. Their faith, boom, gone.

No, no, no, you're not. All of that is good information because your viewers are going to have the same questions. They're going to want to know too, right? So yeah, so that happened. So I decided to go back through the Catholic tradition and look at as many as I could. And lo and behold, it's like almost every one of them looked like that. And that's when I started to become— Like a little cherub?

No, no, no, you're not. All of that is good information because your viewers are going to have the same questions. They're going to want to know too, right? So yeah, so that happened. So I decided to go back through the Catholic tradition and look at as many as I could. And lo and behold, it's like almost every one of them looked like that. And that's when I started to become— Like a little cherub?

Yeah, well, they looked different. They didn't look like what the angels we accept are. And a lot of times they were disturbing, like Joan of Arc's experiences, super disturbing. How were they?

Yeah, well, they looked different. They didn't look like what the angels we accept are. And a lot of times they were disturbing, like Joan of Arc's experiences, super disturbing. How were they?

Okay, so she saw Joan of Arc. We all know who she is, right? Okay, so she's a warrior, a girl warrior, who was told by God to fight for the French, right? against the English, okay? And who told her this? So I'm like, who told Joan of Arc this? God, but, you know, did God come down and say this? No. It was, first, she didn't recognize what it was, just like in Teresa of Avila.

Okay, so she saw Joan of Arc. We all know who she is, right? Okay, so she's a warrior, a girl warrior, who was told by God to fight for the French, right? against the English, okay? And who told her this? So I'm like, who told Joan of Arc this? God, but, you know, did God come down and say this? No. It was, first, she didn't recognize what it was, just like in Teresa of Avila.

And remind me to tell you about that, this lack of recognition, this confusion. So it's a being of light, and it appears in her father's garden. And it appears to her and says, Joan, you know, you're going to be doing this. And she's like, what is this? So she doesn't take it seriously until it shows up again. And then she recognizes that it's St. Michael. And then it acknowledges that it's St.

And remind me to tell you about that, this lack of recognition, this confusion. So it's a being of light, and it appears in her father's garden. And it appears to her and says, Joan, you know, you're going to be doing this. And she's like, what is this? So she doesn't take it seriously until it shows up again. And then she recognizes that it's St. Michael. And then it acknowledges that it's St.

Michael. And that it's going to ask her to be a warrior and that this is what she's going to do. And so it says, go tell this person. And she goes and they listen to her because she has knowledge that she shouldn't have. She has like precognitive knowledge of stuff.

Michael. And that it's going to ask her to be a warrior and that this is what she's going to do. And so it says, go tell this person. And she goes and they listen to her because she has knowledge that she shouldn't have. She has like precognitive knowledge of stuff.

And of course, when people do that to you and you're not suspecting it, you believe them because you're like, they do have special knowledge, right? And so then, you know, she does all these things. She eventually gets burned at the stake. So that's why I want to say it's disturbing because, you know, she does take these troops into battle. She is victorious. It does give her military acumen.

And of course, when people do that to you and you're not suspecting it, you believe them because you're like, they do have special knowledge, right? And so then, you know, she does all these things. She eventually gets burned at the stake. So that's why I want to say it's disturbing because, you know, she does take these troops into battle. She is victorious. It does give her military acumen.

You know, it does help her. But she also ends up being burned at the stake. So the question is, to me, is, like, would I want that for my daughter? Yeah. No, I wouldn't. Do you want an angel to appear to you? Maybe, maybe not. So that's what I'm trying to say is it's a lot more complicated when you start to get into it. That doesn't mean that it should kill your faith.

You know, it does help her. But she also ends up being burned at the stake. So the question is, to me, is, like, would I want that for my daughter? Yeah. No, I wouldn't. Do you want an angel to appear to you? Maybe, maybe not. So that's what I'm trying to say is it's a lot more complicated when you start to get into it. That doesn't mean that it should kill your faith.

Now, you have to understand that my grandparents were Catholic, right? So they had Bibles, but my parents were just agnostic. They were not—they didn't go to church, right? So I started to read the Bible, and immediately I could tell that it was— it wasn't an easy read, okay? It's not an easy read. For anybody who just cracks it and decides, okay, what does this book really say?

Now, you have to understand that my grandparents were Catholic, right? So they had Bibles, but my parents were just agnostic. They were not—they didn't go to church, right? So I started to read the Bible, and immediately I could tell that it was— it wasn't an easy read, okay? It's not an easy read. For anybody who just cracks it and decides, okay, what does this book really say?

I mean, if you're a person of faith, that faith should withstand looking into it, looking into it. So yes, that's what I did.

I mean, if you're a person of faith, that faith should withstand looking into it, looking into it. So yes, that's what I did.

That's how I got into the UAP thing is that it— These guys were looking at it, but from the perspective that it's real, because they believed that it was happening, and they want to know what's going on. They want as much data as they could get. So that's what I was doing then. I was providing them with this data.

That's how I got into the UAP thing is that it— These guys were looking at it, but from the perspective that it's real, because they believed that it was happening, and they want to know what's going on. They want as much data as they could get. So that's what I was doing then. I was providing them with this data.

In the midst of providing them with this data, I started to work with one of the guys. And at the time, this is between 2013 and 2018, Special access programs, reversion engineering programs, I didn't have that language. Nobody did that I knew, right? They weren't in Congress. There wasn't talk about this. The New York Times stories didn't break yet.

In the midst of providing them with this data, I started to work with one of the guys. And at the time, this is between 2013 and 2018, Special access programs, reversion engineering programs, I didn't have that language. Nobody did that I knew, right? They weren't in Congress. There wasn't talk about this. The New York Times stories didn't break yet.

So I was working with a person who was doing this, who wanted to know how to utilize technology. These debris that we, you know, that were being found, you know, and I went to New Mexico to a crash site, alleged crash site with Gary Nolan, by the way. And we found debris.

So I was working with a person who was doing this, who wanted to know how to utilize technology. These debris that we, you know, that were being found, you know, and I went to New Mexico to a crash site, alleged crash site with Gary Nolan, by the way. And we found debris.

We did. So it was me, Tyler, and Gary. And Tyler had known of this for years, like his whole life. And he was in his 60s then. So, you know, for 40 years, he knew about this. It wasn't Roswell. And I have a feeling it wasn't Roswell because it was the real place. So Roswell is probably like the camouflage place. And then, I mean, I'm going to be creating a lot of like

We did. So it was me, Tyler, and Gary. And Tyler had known of this for years, like his whole life. And he was in his 60s then. So, you know, for 40 years, he knew about this. It wasn't Roswell. And I have a feeling it wasn't Roswell because it was the real place. So Roswell is probably like the camouflage place. And then, I mean, I'm going to be creating a lot of like

A lot of people are going to be interested in this topic, obviously. But yeah, so this is my experience.

A lot of people are going to be interested in this topic, obviously. But yeah, so this is my experience.

Right. So the debris looked like metallic frog skin.

Right. So the debris looked like metallic frog skin.

Yeah, it looked like frog skin, but metallic.

Yeah, it looked like frog skin, but metallic.

No, we couldn't take pictures of it.

No, we couldn't take pictures of it.

Okay, so Tyler having amazing access, he's a guy who could get through an airport, like didn't have to go through TSA. He was a guy who the IRS never audited. So he seemed to be above the law. So I described him in American Cosmic. I was amazed by this person. I was very... impacted because I'd never met a person. I didn't even know they existed. But part of what he did was he troubleshooted.

Okay, so Tyler having amazing access, he's a guy who could get through an airport, like didn't have to go through TSA. He was a guy who the IRS never audited. So he seemed to be above the law. So I described him in American Cosmic. I was amazed by this person. I was very... impacted because I'd never met a person. I didn't even know they existed. But part of what he did was he troubleshooted.

I remember during a SpaceX launch that was crashed. And I think this was in 2018 or 17. It was crashed. His phone was going off. And astronauts, like, all these people were like, you know, how do we fix this? He was like a guy who fixed crashed stuff. So he was, you know, the Challenger crashed. He was on the team to figure out why it crashed. And by the way, Judy Resnick was his friend.

I remember during a SpaceX launch that was crashed. And I think this was in 2018 or 17. It was crashed. His phone was going off. And astronauts, like, all these people were like, you know, how do we fix this? He was like a guy who fixed crashed stuff. So he was, you know, the Challenger crashed. He was on the team to figure out why it crashed. And by the way, Judy Resnick was his friend.

So he had— Who's that? Judy Resnick. She was the astronaut who perished during the Challenger crash.

So he had— Who's that? Judy Resnick. She was the astronaut who perished during the Challenger crash.

So anyway, so this is the person who I worked closely with. I brought him even to my university. He talked to my students.

So anyway, so this is the person who I worked closely with. I brought him even to my university. He talked to my students.

Most likely, yeah. And I believe still lives.

Most likely, yeah. And I believe still lives.

I know about him, but we cannot talk.

I know about him, but we cannot talk.

It's hard to read. So some parts were easy to read, like the red letters, right? Easy to read. But like the Old Testament, Hebrew Bible, Genesis, that kind of thing, I could tell that it was an ancient text. And so I made it my goal then, I became Christian. So I decided I'm a Christian. I don't know what my parents are, but I am now.

It's hard to read. So some parts were easy to read, like the red letters, right? Easy to read. But like the Old Testament, Hebrew Bible, Genesis, that kind of thing, I could tell that it was an ancient text. And so I made it my goal then, I became Christian. So I decided I'm a Christian. I don't know what my parents are, but I am now.

Because of everything that's happened.

Because of everything that's happened.

Okay, so he asked me to go to the site because he said that I didn't believe in UFOs. And he's right, I didn't. And he said, you are a person who thinks that they're somehow imaginary or in another realm. He goes, but they're in this realm, they're physical. And I couldn't really believe that because why, unless I have evidence for it. And so he said, you should go to a place I know of

Okay, so he asked me to go to the site because he said that I didn't believe in UFOs. And he's right, I didn't. And he said, you are a person who thinks that they're somehow imaginary or in another realm. He goes, but they're in this realm, they're physical. And I couldn't really believe that because why, unless I have evidence for it. And so he said, you should go to a place I know of

and you'll be convinced. And he asked me to go, and it took about a year for me to say yes. And when I said yes, I said, I need to bring someone with me. I need to have one of my colleagues come with me because I don't want to go by myself. And he said, maybe. So he said, because apparently it was a place, it was under a no-fly zone, and it was a place that was secret.

and you'll be convinced. And he asked me to go, and it took about a year for me to say yes. And when I said yes, I said, I need to bring someone with me. I need to have one of my colleagues come with me because I don't want to go by myself. And he said, maybe. So he said, because apparently it was a place, it was under a no-fly zone, and it was a place that was secret.

But he'd been going there, and I think it was a crash retrieval site, frankly. Now what I'm learning about, by the way, I keep going back to my book, American Cosmic, because I wrote a lot in that book, and I wrote it all truthfully. So that means that there's data in there that at the time I did not understand. Now when I go back and read it, I learn from my own book.

But he'd been going there, and I think it was a crash retrieval site, frankly. Now what I'm learning about, by the way, I keep going back to my book, American Cosmic, because I wrote a lot in that book, and I wrote it all truthfully. So that means that there's data in there that at the time I did not understand. Now when I go back and read it, I learn from my own book.

I'm like, whoa, that happened. And I have a lot of stuff from him, like a lot of –

I'm like, whoa, that happened. And I have a lot of stuff from him, like a lot of –

presentations and papers and everything that notes that i still go back to and now i understand like at the time i didn't because i didn't believe in them and i didn't know it was happening i didn't know that this was going on i didn't believe in it so okay so he invites me to new mexico to this place he says it's going to be a place where ufo crashed in the 1940s but it's not roswell

presentations and papers and everything that notes that i still go back to and now i understand like at the time i didn't because i didn't believe in them and i didn't know it was happening i didn't know that this was going on i didn't believe in it so okay so he invites me to new mexico to this place he says it's going to be a place where ufo crashed in the 1940s but it's not roswell

And I was like, haha, you know. I was the chair of my department at the time, by the way, and already had won research awards for my work in Catholic history. Nobody knew that I was really doing work in UFOs, only a couple friends. So it's nothing I advertised. So I said, I'll invite Jeff Kripal to go with me, the guy at Rice, Kali, good friend.

And I was like, haha, you know. I was the chair of my department at the time, by the way, and already had won research awards for my work in Catholic history. Nobody knew that I was really doing work in UFOs, only a couple friends. So it's nothing I advertised. So I said, I'll invite Jeff Kripal to go with me, the guy at Rice, Kali, good friend.

And he said, Diana, that's just way too out of my comfort zone to do that. I was like, it is kind of weird. We had to wear blindfolds to go. So I said, okay, I'll ask. I had just been introduced to Gary Nolan. He's a professor at Stanford. He's now well-known. And I asked him if he'd go with me. And he said, yes, of course I'll go with you.

And he said, Diana, that's just way too out of my comfort zone to do that. I was like, it is kind of weird. We had to wear blindfolds to go. So I said, okay, I'll ask. I had just been introduced to Gary Nolan. He's a professor at Stanford. He's now well-known. And I asked him if he'd go with me. And he said, yes, of course I'll go with you.

And he had all the laboratory equipment to, like, figure it out anyway. So I told Tyler, I said— Gary Nolan, and he looked him up, and it took him a couple days, and he came back and he said, okay. And I was like, cool, we're in, so we're going to go. So it was me and Gary, and Tyler was taking us.

And he had all the laboratory equipment to, like, figure it out anyway. So I told Tyler, I said— Gary Nolan, and he looked him up, and it took him a couple days, and he came back and he said, okay. And I was like, cool, we're in, so we're going to go. So it was me and Gary, and Tyler was taking us.

So we went to New Mexico, we stayed at a place, and then the next day we were going to the crash retrieval place. We had special metal detectors that Tyler had configured and brought in. And we got in the car and we went. We didn't wear blindfolds yet until we got to a cattle great place, you know. And then Tyler said, put the blindfolds on, you know.

So we went to New Mexico, we stayed at a place, and then the next day we were going to the crash retrieval place. We had special metal detectors that Tyler had configured and brought in. And we got in the car and we went. We didn't wear blindfolds yet until we got to a cattle great place, you know. And then Tyler said, put the blindfolds on, you know.

So we put the blindfolds on and we went another 40 minutes. And then when we got out, we got out and we took the blindfolds off. And I looked around and Tyler said, this is such a funny part. He said, do you recognize this place? I was like, no, of course I don't. And he goes, this is like one of the episodes on the X-Files. And I was like, oh, okay. He said they had an insider on their team.

So we put the blindfolds on and we went another 40 minutes. And then when we got out, we got out and we took the blindfolds off. And I looked around and Tyler said, this is such a funny part. He said, do you recognize this place? I was like, no, of course I don't. And he goes, this is like one of the episodes on the X-Files. And I was like, oh, okay. He said they had an insider on their team.

And I thought that was so – honestly, it was really – You have to understand, I still didn't believe. I was like, I wanted to know why these guys believed, because they both were believers, complete believers. We spent all day there. We did get parts. We did get this stuff. And it was hard to get, by the way. It wasn't easy. So it couldn't have just been planted there. Yeah.

And I thought that was so – honestly, it was really – You have to understand, I still didn't believe. I was like, I wanted to know why these guys believed, because they both were believers, complete believers. We spent all day there. We did get parts. We did get this stuff. And it was hard to get, by the way. It wasn't easy. So it couldn't have just been planted there. Yeah.

And I asked my parents to take me to different churches, whatever church was a Christian church. I was 11. So it was a full on religious conversion that I had that I didn't recognize until later. And I said, I want to grow up and I want to go to school or whatever needs to happen so that I can read this book in its original language, because I could tell it had been translated.

And I asked my parents to take me to different churches, whatever church was a Christian church. I was 11. So it was a full on religious conversion that I had that I didn't recognize until later. And I said, I want to grow up and I want to go to school or whatever needs to happen so that I can read this book in its original language, because I could tell it had been translated.

There was rubble everywhere, and it was rubble. I didn't quite understand why it was there. My editor wanted me to take it out, but it was disintegrated aluminum cans, I guess from the 1950s. So Tyler said that they put that out there so people couldn't find it. the debris. So we took the debris back. Tyler predicted what would happen. He said, do you want to take it back to the airport, Diana?

There was rubble everywhere, and it was rubble. I didn't quite understand why it was there. My editor wanted me to take it out, but it was disintegrated aluminum cans, I guess from the 1950s. So Tyler said that they put that out there so people couldn't find it. the debris. So we took the debris back. Tyler predicted what would happen. He said, do you want to take it back to the airport, Diana?

No, no, I don't want the debris. I don't want anything to do with it. Gary was going to take it. So we get back to the airport. And he said that Gary was going to get stopped. It was in his backpack. And that exactly happened. He said exactly what was going to happen happened. So I get through. Tyler doesn't have to go through TSA. He's already at the end.

No, no, I don't want the debris. I don't want anything to do with it. Gary was going to take it. So we get back to the airport. And he said that Gary was going to get stopped. It was in his backpack. And that exactly happened. He said exactly what was going to happen happened. So I get through. Tyler doesn't have to go through TSA. He's already at the end.

He's, you know, cool, collected, sitting there watching us. And I come through, and I sit down. And Gary—so Tyler had said to us, don't be afraid, Gary. This is what's going to happen. It'll go off. They're going to check your backpack. They're going to look everywhere. It doesn't matter. Somebody in D.C. or something is going to know. But you have nothing. You're going to be let pass.

He's, you know, cool, collected, sitting there watching us. And I come through, and I sit down. And Gary—so Tyler had said to us, don't be afraid, Gary. This is what's going to happen. It'll go off. They're going to check your backpack. They're going to look everywhere. It doesn't matter. Somebody in D.C. or something is going to know. But you have nothing. You're going to be let pass.

He doesn't have anything in the backpack. And Gary's like, okay. But Gary was sweating the whole time. It happened exactly like Tyler said. He was sweating when it happened. And I was afraid for him. So I was afraid. Tyler was just cool, calm and collected, drinking a glass of water. Gary came out. We kind of like got over that. And then we went back to our homes.

He doesn't have anything in the backpack. And Gary's like, okay. But Gary was sweating the whole time. It happened exactly like Tyler said. He was sweating when it happened. And I was afraid for him. So I was afraid. Tyler was just cool, calm and collected, drinking a glass of water. Gary came out. We kind of like got over that. And then we went back to our homes.

Gary later looked at it through his microscopes and things that he has, laser microscopes and things like that. And he said it was anomalous.

Gary later looked at it through his microscopes and things that he has, laser microscopes and things like that. And he said it was anomalous.

I mean, whatever else happened, there's a lot. Yeah, a lot happened. But I can't say what happened after that. And I know everybody's going to hate that, but.

I mean, whatever else happened, there's a lot. Yeah, a lot happened. But I can't say what happened after that. And I know everybody's going to hate that, but.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, okay.

And so I finally got that. I did it. So that's what I did. It was a rocky kind of trip there. But I finally went to a Catholic school, which is where at that point nuns were running the school. So it was a really good school. So I graduated really early when I was 16.

And so I finally got that. I did it. So that's what I did. It was a rocky kind of trip there. But I finally went to a Catholic school, which is where at that point nuns were running the school. So it was a really good school. So I graduated really early when I was 16.

It sounds weird.

It sounds weird.

I know. That's exactly how I reacted. So it was in the context of when the aerospace engineers reached out to me, and I started to talk with them, and I corresponded with Tyler. And then I met him. And then, you know, we shared information about these things. And then he said, you're not a believer. Like, you're still not a believer. And I'm really open. And I said, you're right.

I know. That's exactly how I reacted. So it was in the context of when the aerospace engineers reached out to me, and I started to talk with them, and I corresponded with Tyler. And then I met him. And then, you know, we shared information about these things. And then he said, you're not a believer. Like, you're still not a believer. And I'm really open. And I said, you're right.

I'm not a believer. And he said, well, I think I could show you something that would change. make you a believer. You need to have physical proof. You don't think this is physical. You think it's imagination. And I said, yes, I don't believe in it. And so that's when he said, I can take you to this place.

I'm not a believer. And he said, well, I think I could show you something that would change. make you a believer. You need to have physical proof. You don't think this is physical. You think it's imagination. And I said, yes, I don't believe in it. And so that's when he said, I can take you to this place.

And like I said, it took me about a year to say yes, that I'd go to this place because it was weird, right? So especially at that time, like today, because people talk about crash retrieval sites and stuff, you'd go, Oh, a crash retrieval place. You may not believe in it, but at least you know what it is. I didn't even know what he was talking about.

And like I said, it took me about a year to say yes, that I'd go to this place because it was weird, right? So especially at that time, like today, because people talk about crash retrieval sites and stuff, you'd go, Oh, a crash retrieval place. You may not believe in it, but at least you know what it is. I didn't even know what he was talking about.

I hadn't read The Day After Roswell by Colonel Corso, right? I didn't know any of that. I did afterwards, of course. I had to do that in order to understand what was going on. But that's how it was briefed to me.

I hadn't read The Day After Roswell by Colonel Corso, right? I didn't know any of that. I did afterwards, of course. I had to do that in order to understand what was going on. But that's how it was briefed to me.

It was Tyler. It was Tyler.

It was Tyler. It was Tyler.

So he had affiliations with that too, with NASA also.

So he had affiliations with that too, with NASA also.

Okay, so this was a really interesting trip.

Okay, so this was a really interesting trip.

Okay, so the trip had nothing to do with UFOs in the beginning. It was purely about my scholarship, right? So I do Catholic history, and I know people at the Vatican. I was invited to go by Brother Guy Consolmagno. He is the director of the Vatican Observatory, which is the observatory of the Vatican. It's been around since the 1800s. And he's a Jesuit. He went to the school I went to.

Okay, so the trip had nothing to do with UFOs in the beginning. It was purely about my scholarship, right? So I do Catholic history, and I know people at the Vatican. I was invited to go by Brother Guy Consolmagno. He is the director of the Vatican Observatory, which is the observatory of the Vatican. It's been around since the 1800s. And he's a Jesuit. He went to the school I went to.

And he's a monk. And so we were talking, and I was interested in UFO stuff. So I asked him about the Vatican, if they had anything that had to do with space. And he said, yes, we have a whole observatory archive. Everything that has to do with space at the Vatican comes to our archive. And so I was like, hmm, I'd like to look at that. And he said, you're welcome to come and stay.

And he's a monk. And so we were talking, and I was interested in UFO stuff. So I asked him about the Vatican, if they had anything that had to do with space. And he said, yes, we have a whole observatory archive. Everything that has to do with space at the Vatican comes to our archive. And so I was like, hmm, I'd like to look at that. And he said, you're welcome to come and stay.

We have a scholar's residence. You can stay as long as you want. So I said, okay, I'll do that. So I knew that I could go and stay there, but I hadn't yet— decided to go to the archive of the Vatican. But the opportunity arose for me to do that, and it was to examine the levitation records of what we call the canonization records.

We have a scholar's residence. You can stay as long as you want. So I said, okay, I'll do that. So I knew that I could go and stay there, but I hadn't yet— decided to go to the archive of the Vatican. But the opportunity arose for me to do that, and it was to examine the levitation records of what we call the canonization records.

I did go to college, and then I went to the Jesuit School of Theology, which is a school where you can do an academic degree with priests. So priests were my peers. So I went to school with priests in formation to be priests. So I got an education that priests get. And then after that, I got my PhD, and I've been doing this ever since. Yeah.

I did go to college, and then I went to the Jesuit School of Theology, which is a school where you can do an academic degree with priests. So priests were my peers. So I went to school with priests in formation to be priests. So I got an education that priests get. And then after that, I got my PhD, and I've been doing this ever since. Yeah.

You know, canonization is a process where people become saints, and so there are big records You just don't say this person's a saint. You know, you have to prove it. So they have these records at the Vatican. And this was for Joseph of Copertino, who's a saint who said to have levitated. And I was supposed to go and look at those records.

You know, canonization is a process where people become saints, and so there are big records You just don't say this person's a saint. You know, you have to prove it. So they have these records at the Vatican. And this was for Joseph of Copertino, who's a saint who said to have levitated. And I was supposed to go and look at those records.

By the way, I have those records in a strange series of events. So those records are now in my possession. signed an agreement with the Vatican about it. And I didn't intend for that to happen, nor did I even want those records, but I do have them. And I keep them in a safe place. And they're translated, too. So I have these records. They were in, like, 17th century Latin and Italian.

By the way, I have those records in a strange series of events. So those records are now in my possession. signed an agreement with the Vatican about it. And I didn't intend for that to happen, nor did I even want those records, but I do have them. And I keep them in a safe place. And they're translated, too. So I have these records. They were in, like, 17th century Latin and Italian.

So that's something I can't translate. So I had to find a team of translators. So in any case, I'm supposed to go to the Vatican. And so Tyler says, I'd like to go and look at those records, too. And I thought, hmm, that actually might be really an interesting thing. I'll see what he thinks about these levitation records and also the space observatory stuff because he's a space guy.

So that's something I can't translate. So I had to find a team of translators. So in any case, I'm supposed to go to the Vatican. And so Tyler says, I'd like to go and look at those records, too. And I thought, hmm, that actually might be really an interesting thing. I'll see what he thinks about these levitation records and also the space observatory stuff because he's a space guy.

He's been in the space program his whole life. So it would be really interesting for me to see his reactions to this data. So I thought it would be good for him to go. But this really had nothing to do with – in my opinion, the UFO thing. But it actually did, but I didn't know it. So, we ended up going.

He's been in the space program his whole life. So it would be really interesting for me to see his reactions to this data. So I thought it would be good for him to go. But this really had nothing to do with – in my opinion, the UFO thing. But it actually did, but I didn't know it. So, we ended up going.

And let me describe how he got in because he shouldn't, by rights, get into the secret archive because he doesn't have those credentials. So, we thought about that. Now, it takes a while. You can't just go there and say, I want to see these books or these old manuscripts. You actually, because there's There's like 53 miles of shelving at the Vatican.

And let me describe how he got in because he shouldn't, by rights, get into the secret archive because he doesn't have those credentials. So, we thought about that. Now, it takes a while. You can't just go there and say, I want to see these books or these old manuscripts. You actually, because there's There's like 53 miles of shelving at the Vatican.

So they need to know what you need to—they need time in order to find it for you. So I—like a year in advance, I was in touch with the Vatican and said, I need to find these, you know, do you have these and these, all the records. And so they said yes. Okay. So— He got, he was, we had to fly there. He was on a different plane than me. And he got to the Vatican before I did.

So they need to know what you need to—they need time in order to find it for you. So I—like a year in advance, I was in touch with the Vatican and said, I need to find these, you know, do you have these and these, all the records. And so they said yes. Okay. So— He got, he was, we had to fly there. He was on a different plane than me. And he got to the Vatican before I did.

And we had anticipated that he wouldn't be able to get into the Vatican archive. So we did the best we could. We got like a friend of his who was a department chair and said, you know, he's, I vouch for his character. He's doing research in this area and stuff. But he couldn't get in. So I was on the plane and he was texting me and he was like, I can't get in. They're not letting me in.

And we had anticipated that he wouldn't be able to get into the Vatican archive. So we did the best we could. We got like a friend of his who was a department chair and said, you know, he's, I vouch for his character. He's doing research in this area and stuff. But he couldn't get in. So I was on the plane and he was texting me and he was like, I can't get in. They're not letting me in.

He said, I think I should show my ID. Now, I didn't really want anybody at the Vatican to know that I was there with someone who's a space researcher because I didn't want them to know that we were looking for anything that had to do with UFOs because in the one sense, I wasn't. But in the other sense, I just wanted the best impression. when I got there. So I didn't want him to do that.

He said, I think I should show my ID. Now, I didn't really want anybody at the Vatican to know that I was there with someone who's a space researcher because I didn't want them to know that we were looking for anything that had to do with UFOs because in the one sense, I wasn't. But in the other sense, I just wanted the best impression. when I got there. So I didn't want him to do that.

And I honestly didn't think it would work. Okay. So I didn't think he'd be able to get in. But after like an hour or two, I'm on the plane. I feel bad for him. And he finally says, can you please just, I'm going to do this. All right. And I said, okay, just go ahead. So one of his IDs, I don't know which one he shows to the

And I honestly didn't think it would work. Okay. So I didn't think he'd be able to get in. But after like an hour or two, I'm on the plane. I feel bad for him. And he finally says, can you please just, I'm going to do this. All right. And I said, okay, just go ahead. So one of his IDs, I don't know which one he shows to the

the guy who's the security at the secret archive and he said he dropped his wallet and he went down to pick it up and when he looked up he saw his face on the screen of the guy's computer and he was in and as soon as he got in he met a priest who was an american and we got access So that's when I, again, he changed my idea of Catholic history. He also changed my idea of the Vatican.

the guy who's the security at the secret archive and he said he dropped his wallet and he went down to pick it up and when he looked up he saw his face on the screen of the guy's computer and he was in and as soon as he got in he met a priest who was an american and we got access So that's when I, again, he changed my idea of Catholic history. He also changed my idea of the Vatican.

So when we got to the Vatican, I couldn't believe it. I was like, what, you know, how come this guy has way more access than me? How did he get that access? So it was a mystery to me. But he also pointed out a couple of things too. So there's some really, really scary guards in the Vatican itself that don't look like the Swiss guards. Like they look like militia guys.

So when we got to the Vatican, I couldn't believe it. I was like, what, you know, how come this guy has way more access than me? How did he get that access? So it was a mystery to me. But he also pointed out a couple of things too. So there's some really, really scary guards in the Vatican itself that don't look like the Swiss guards. Like they look like militia guys.

They have these, like, I'm not well-versed in guns, but they look like they have like machine guns, right? Mm-hmm. And you can't go anywhere. Like I was holding on to Father Kelty who was showing us around, you know, in the Vatican and helping us out. Like if I was away from him, I was fearful of my life because these guys were mean. You know, they're like, why are you here kind of thing.

They have these, like, I'm not well-versed in guns, but they look like they have like machine guns, right? Mm-hmm. And you can't go anywhere. Like I was holding on to Father Kelty who was showing us around, you know, in the Vatican and helping us out. Like if I was away from him, I was fearful of my life because these guys were mean. You know, they're like, why are you here kind of thing.

Yeah, I still have the same Bible, too.

Yeah, I still have the same Bible, too.

So Vatican has some incredible security. Also, Tyler pointed some things out to me. So we were at the Vatican observatory and in the gardens, they have a beautiful garden there, the papal gardens, in fact. And there were these gardeners. And he said, see the gardeners? And yes. And he said, are they gardening? And I looked at them and, no, they were not gardening. And what were they doing?

So Vatican has some incredible security. Also, Tyler pointed some things out to me. So we were at the Vatican observatory and in the gardens, they have a beautiful garden there, the papal gardens, in fact. And there were these gardeners. And he said, see the gardeners? And yes. And he said, are they gardening? And I looked at them and, no, they were not gardening. And what were they doing?

So he was pointing out to me the intelligence at, you know, like Secret Service type people at the Vatican. He could spot them. And when he would show them to me, it was like my eyes like— like I didn't see it before. To me, I just in my mind registered gardener and that was it. I didn't even bother looking at them, but no, they weren't gardening.

So he was pointing out to me the intelligence at, you know, like Secret Service type people at the Vatican. He could spot them. And when he would show them to me, it was like my eyes like— like I didn't see it before. To me, I just in my mind registered gardener and that was it. I didn't even bother looking at them, but no, they weren't gardening.

And if they were, they should be fired because they were bad, right? They weren't gardening. They were posing as gardeners. So that was all over. I saw that. And so I saw the Vatican in a completely different light when I was there. And we did find interesting information that basically made it into the last chapter of American Cosmic.

And if they were, they should be fired because they were bad, right? They weren't gardening. They were posing as gardeners. So that was all over. I saw that. And so I saw the Vatican in a completely different light when I was there. And we did find interesting information that basically made it into the last chapter of American Cosmic.

Yeah, it did freak my parents out, to tell you the truth. They thought it was odd, but my father was more okay with it. He's passed away. But my mother, I felt like she was worried about me. You know, she thought maybe I'd— She thought I'd become a nun. And I actually know nuns, and they're good people, and I keep thinking that's not the worst case scenario.

Yeah, it did freak my parents out, to tell you the truth. They thought it was odd, but my father was more okay with it. He's passed away. But my mother, I felt like she was worried about me. You know, she thought maybe I'd— She thought I'd become a nun. And I actually know nuns, and they're good people, and I keep thinking that's not the worst case scenario.

So that book had been done in my mind before I went to the Vatican. After I was at the Vatican, I wrote to my editor and I said, this has to be the last chapter of the book. And she agreed. So I incorporated a lot of the data. Tyler had a conversion experience. So he became—he was a Southern Baptist—

So that book had been done in my mind before I went to the Vatican. After I was at the Vatican, I wrote to my editor and I said, this has to be the last chapter of the book. And she agreed. So I incorporated a lot of the data. Tyler had a conversion experience. So he became—he was a Southern Baptist—

But he was one of those Southern Baptists that, you know, like I was a Catholic, like, you know, in name only, like, you know, we maybe go to church and stuff, but we were not true believers. But after his experiences there, also seeing the documents that he saw, recognizing that the kind of thing that he was looking at, which is UAP stuff, looked to be exactly like angel contact events.

But he was one of those Southern Baptists that, you know, like I was a Catholic, like, you know, in name only, like, you know, we maybe go to church and stuff, but we were not true believers. But after his experiences there, also seeing the documents that he saw, recognizing that the kind of thing that he was looking at, which is UAP stuff, looked to be exactly like angel contact events.

He became very religious after that.

He became very religious after that.

Okay, so it's – Is that true? Yeah. No, it's not the biggest telescope. They have telescopes that are large. They may have just purchased one. They have two observatories, one in Arizona and one in Castle Gandolfo, which is near Rome. Not in Rome, but near Rome. Okay. They may have— Why? Well, I mean, they had it before we did, right?

Okay, so it's – Is that true? Yeah. No, it's not the biggest telescope. They have telescopes that are large. They may have just purchased one. They have two observatories, one in Arizona and one in Castle Gandolfo, which is near Rome. Not in Rome, but near Rome. Okay. They may have— Why? Well, I mean, they had it before we did, right?

So they've had—they've been studying—they've been scientists before Americans were scientists.

So they've had—they've been studying—they've been scientists before Americans were scientists.

So it's not—once you start to understand it, it doesn't—it's not weird. It's like—I know it sounds weird because you're not used to thinking about the Vatican has these telescopes. What are they doing? But, you know, think about it. Descartes, all those guys, scientists and Catholics, so European Catholics. So once you understand that Catholicism has been, you know—

So it's not—once you start to understand it, it doesn't—it's not weird. It's like—I know it sounds weird because you're not used to thinking about the Vatican has these telescopes. What are they doing? But, you know, think about it. Descartes, all those guys, scientists and Catholics, so European Catholics. So once you understand that Catholicism has been, you know—

around for many, many years, you know, you start to recognize that most of the scientists in the Western tradition have been Catholic, you know, or on the outs with Catholics. So Catholics have been around, they've been doing science. So Brother Guy Consolmagno is the director of this thing called the Vatican Observatory, and they do, they still do science. So they're scientists and Catholics.

around for many, many years, you know, you start to recognize that most of the scientists in the Western tradition have been Catholic, you know, or on the outs with Catholics. So Catholics have been around, they've been doing science. So Brother Guy Consolmagno is the director of this thing called the Vatican Observatory, and they do, they still do science. So they're scientists and Catholics.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I don't know.

I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I don't know.

Well, of course, this is what I'm doing right now. So yes, I do. But that doesn't mean that I have an answer. So I do know this. I do know that when people who are part of these programs or not anymore, of course, because the programs are under scrutiny, when aerospace people reach out to me, They're looking at this. They don't know either. They don't know. They want to know.

Well, of course, this is what I'm doing right now. So yes, I do. But that doesn't mean that I have an answer. So I do know this. I do know that when people who are part of these programs or not anymore, of course, because the programs are under scrutiny, when aerospace people reach out to me, They're looking at this. They don't know either. They don't know. They want to know.

So it's an area of exploration. And to me, there's something that I think some of them are missing. And it's something that Tyler did not miss. It's that there's a spiritual component to this. And if you don't get with the spiritual component, you're not going to have access to the information. That's what I believe. Only because that's how I've seen it in the last 12 years.

So it's an area of exploration. And to me, there's something that I think some of them are missing. And it's something that Tyler did not miss. It's that there's a spiritual component to this. And if you don't get with the spiritual component, you're not going to have access to the information. That's what I believe. Only because that's how I've seen it in the last 12 years.

So since I've been doing this, there are a lot of people, governments, people who represent governments, our government, who are scrambling to... figure this technology out, safeguard this technology, or do something with technology for either weapons or to better humanity, all of these things. But the people who I've met who seem to have the most access to this, they don't have those intentions.

So since I've been doing this, there are a lot of people, governments, people who represent governments, our government, who are scrambling to... figure this technology out, safeguard this technology, or do something with technology for either weapons or to better humanity, all of these things. But the people who I've met who seem to have the most access to this, they don't have those intentions.

There's definitely worse career paths than being a nun. Yeah, exactly.

There's definitely worse career paths than being a nun. Yeah, exactly.

Those intentions are not their intentions. So to me, there seems to be, just like when you said you did psychedelics, your intention was allows you to have a positive experience, that's my interpretation. Like, because why do I think that? I'm not randomly just thinking that. I'm thinking that because I'm going back to the history of these protocols that allow people to access these realms.

Those intentions are not their intentions. So to me, there seems to be, just like when you said you did psychedelics, your intention was allows you to have a positive experience, that's my interpretation. Like, because why do I think that? I'm not randomly just thinking that. I'm thinking that because I'm going back to the history of these protocols that allow people to access these realms.

And when you are reverent and respectful, it seems there's a better outcome. Well, maybe that's the case here. I don't know, but that's so far my conclusion. So what I do know, though, is that it appears that there's a... So you... Let me... Help me understand.

And when you are reverent and respectful, it seems there's a better outcome. Well, maybe that's the case here. I don't know, but that's so far my conclusion. So what I do know, though, is that it appears that there's a... So you... Let me... Help me understand.

Let's see, that sounds very quantum, but... I think that your character might determine... access to information or knowledge. So Tyler had a certain character and I don't see that in the people who are scrambling to be the first UFO genius scientist.

Let's see, that sounds very quantum, but... I think that your character might determine... access to information or knowledge. So Tyler had a certain character and I don't see that in the people who are scrambling to be the first UFO genius scientist.

Completely different characters right there.

Completely different characters right there.

Yeah. I don't know. So this is something that I think people are trying to figure out. Let's put it this way. Okay, if you think about something that we think to be subjective in our minds, completely, like you could even call it spiritual in the sense that it's spirit, it's not matter. That would be our thoughts, right? We tend to think of thoughts as completely non-physical, non-material.

Yeah. I don't know. So this is something that I think people are trying to figure out. Let's put it this way. Okay, if you think about something that we think to be subjective in our minds, completely, like you could even call it spiritual in the sense that it's spirit, it's not matter. That would be our thoughts, right? We tend to think of thoughts as completely non-physical, non-material.

Would you not agree?

Would you not agree?

I know you don't believe it anymore. Okay. Why don't you believe that anymore? And I agree with you.

I know you don't believe it anymore. Okay. Why don't you believe that anymore? And I agree with you.

Of course. No, it makes perfect sense. But you did go through a period of not believing that thoughts could be things, right? That could be measurable.

Of course. No, it makes perfect sense. But you did go through a period of not believing that thoughts could be things, right? That could be measurable.

Okay. So I would suggest this. And this has something to do with the question you asked me about the parts being spiritual or material. Mm-hmm. We're at a point in time, and this is part of what is fascinating to me, so I've been documenting it. So I wrote some articles. By the way, my articles are free on academia.edu.

Okay. So I would suggest this. And this has something to do with the question you asked me about the parts being spiritual or material. Mm-hmm. We're at a point in time, and this is part of what is fascinating to me, so I've been documenting it. So I wrote some articles. By the way, my articles are free on academia.edu.

And I wrote an article where, this was about 2017, 2016, where I was documenting the human brain, I mean, the computer brain interface that's happening, you know, that's really taking off right now. And then there were two studies. One was at, I think it was the University of Washington, where people had

And I wrote an article where, this was about 2017, 2016, where I was documenting the human brain, I mean, the computer brain interface that's happening, you know, that's really taking off right now. And then there were two studies. One was at, I think it was the University of Washington, where people had

and this is now common, where they were using brain imaging, but they were able to identify what a person was thinking about. So a person was thinking about a dog, and the image of a dog would become something that could be seen on a computer screen. So they had technology that was able to read brain waves.

and this is now common, where they were using brain imaging, but they were able to identify what a person was thinking about. So a person was thinking about a dog, and the image of a dog would become something that could be seen on a computer screen. So they had technology that was able to read brain waves.

You bet. Sure. So I started it earlier than that. So it was something that I started as soon as I became an assistant professor. And this was in 2002, 2003. And in order to keep that job, you have to publish, which is normal for a professor. I was interested in, you know, ideas of the afterlife and the soul. These things interested me.

You bet. Sure. So I started it earlier than that. So it was something that I started as soon as I became an assistant professor. And this was in 2002, 2003. And in order to keep that job, you have to publish, which is normal for a professor. I was interested in, you know, ideas of the afterlife and the soul. These things interested me.

So therefore, thoughts, which we used to think were completely subjective things that were internal and private, were no longer that. And we were seeing the beginning of that process. And I think that the beginning of this process is going to be exponential at this point because of what Elon Musk is doing and other scientists.

So therefore, thoughts, which we used to think were completely subjective things that were internal and private, were no longer that. And we were seeing the beginning of that process. And I think that the beginning of this process is going to be exponential at this point because of what Elon Musk is doing and other scientists.

Yeah, with all of these types of things that are happening. I also think that the government has been in on this in terms of its remote viewing programs, utilizing consciousness in order to obtain information. So I would suggest that UAP is like this, is very similar.

Yeah, with all of these types of things that are happening. I also think that the government has been in on this in terms of its remote viewing programs, utilizing consciousness in order to obtain information. So I would suggest that UAP is like this, is very similar.

So in terms of the combination, we're going to be able to identify, you know, when people report UAP events, a lot of what happens is that they report experiences of what you call downloads, like experiences of information that they're getting from UAP. whatever it is at our UAP. And that's been consistent in the historical record. Like Joan of Arc, right?

So in terms of the combination, we're going to be able to identify, you know, when people report UAP events, a lot of what happens is that they report experiences of what you call downloads, like experiences of information that they're getting from UAP. whatever it is at our UAP. And that's been consistent in the historical record. Like Joan of Arc, right?

This light appears to her and then it says, do this, do this. And at first she resists because she's like, what are you? And then she goes, oh, you're St. Michael. I can trust you. And then she gets the downloads of military information that she actually utilizes. Like she's a kid, by the way, when this happened. I think she's 15. Wow. Yeah. So how are Catholics in that day and age?

This light appears to her and then it says, do this, do this. And at first she resists because she's like, what are you? And then she goes, oh, you're St. Michael. I can trust you. And then she gets the downloads of military information that she actually utilizes. Like she's a kid, by the way, when this happened. I think she's 15. Wow. Yeah. So how are Catholics in that day and age?

She decides to dress like a boy, you know? I mean, like how does a young girl in that day and age convince older men, you know, that this is a good thing and they're convinced? So what I'm saying is that it's something like that. By the way, I do think that people should not accept the download as easily as they do. I've met too many people who are tortured by this process.

She decides to dress like a boy, you know? I mean, like how does a young girl in that day and age convince older men, you know, that this is a good thing and they're convinced? So what I'm saying is that it's something like that. By the way, I do think that people should not accept the download as easily as they do. I've met too many people who are tortured by this process.

So now that I've been doing this, I've met many people in the thousands who tell me about their experiences. And... A lot of them are brilliant people who are super successful, and they believe that their success is because of the download experience that they have. But that download experience also causes them to receive so much information that they believe they should tell people about.

So now that I've been doing this, I've met many people in the thousands who tell me about their experiences. And... A lot of them are brilliant people who are super successful, and they believe that their success is because of the download experience that they have. But that download experience also causes them to receive so much information that they believe they should tell people about.

Like, oh, I received this information, I really should tell this person. And they get tortured by these experiences. In the very beginning of the publishing of my book, I would get correspondence and outright people talking to me and coming to me and saying, you'll have this experience, but you have to accept it first. You have to say yes. And I would always say no, because I don't trust it.

Like, oh, I received this information, I really should tell this person. And they get tortured by these experiences. In the very beginning of the publishing of my book, I would get correspondence and outright people talking to me and coming to me and saying, you'll have this experience, but you have to accept it first. You have to say yes. And I would always say no, because I don't trust it.

So I think that that was smart on my part. So if you get something and it's like this thing that says, OK, you have to accept this in order to get this download, do you accept it? Why accept it? Like, why? So people, in our time, we don't have the language. We've lost religion for the most part, right? So we are, even you admit, I'm Catholic, but I don't know my tradition.

So I think that that was smart on my part. So if you get something and it's like this thing that says, OK, you have to accept this in order to get this download, do you accept it? Why accept it? Like, why? So people, in our time, we don't have the language. We've lost religion for the most part, right? So we are, even you admit, I'm Catholic, but I don't know my tradition.

I never learned the Bible or anything like that. So we've effectively lost our connection to these wisdom traditions. And I'm not saying we should keep all of what they say. A lot of those things I don't keep, but I'll tell you what I do keep, and that's the reticence to allow my mind to be hijacked. So I call it cognitive sovereignty.

I never learned the Bible or anything like that. So we've effectively lost our connection to these wisdom traditions. And I'm not saying we should keep all of what they say. A lot of those things I don't keep, but I'll tell you what I do keep, and that's the reticence to allow my mind to be hijacked. So I call it cognitive sovereignty.

So I think we should identify that we do have sovereignty if we're quickly losing it because of the technologies that are happening. But we've got to, at least where this is concerned, where UAP is concerned, I think we should be careful and not just say yes to that.

So I think we should identify that we do have sovereignty if we're quickly losing it because of the technologies that are happening. But we've got to, at least where this is concerned, where UAP is concerned, I think we should be careful and not just say yes to that.

And in the Catholic tradition, which is what I was trained in, there's this thing called purgatory. And this is also Eastern Orthodox. So most Christians that are not Protestant believe in this thing, this thing called purgatory. And it's like a way station for souls that aren't good enough to go to heaven, okay?

And in the Catholic tradition, which is what I was trained in, there's this thing called purgatory. And this is also Eastern Orthodox. So most Christians that are not Protestant believe in this thing, this thing called purgatory. And it's like a way station for souls that aren't good enough to go to heaven, okay?

Yeah, so I already knew the tradition of, you know, contact events with angels and, you know, that kind of thing.

Yeah, so I already knew the tradition of, you know, contact events with angels and, you know, that kind of thing.

Did you believe that it was... I believe that people had experiences.

Did you believe that it was... I believe that people had experiences.

I'm still not sure I believe that. I don't know what it came off of. I just know that it was a real physical object.

I'm still not sure I believe that. I don't know what it came off of. I just know that it was a real physical object.

No, no, no.

No, no, no.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's hard to say.

It's hard to say.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, Jon Favre and Ryan Graves, fighter pilots.

Yeah, Jon Favre and Ryan Graves, fighter pilots.

Yep, totally anomalous UAP is what I think. It could be, I mean... They don't know. They think... I mean, I've heard Ryan Graves talk. I was in a talk that he gave to scientists, and he was explaining his experience in more detail than normal.

Yep, totally anomalous UAP is what I think. It could be, I mean... They don't know. They think... I mean, I've heard Ryan Graves talk. I was in a talk that he gave to scientists, and he was explaining his experience in more detail than normal.

And it was interesting because he said that through different types of technologies like infrared goggles and things like that, but other types of things, you could see a whole array of different types of things. So, and I know that already. So that even comes from, if you look at the ufology of John Keel, he talks about this thing called the super spectrum.

And it was interesting because he said that through different types of technologies like infrared goggles and things like that, but other types of things, you could see a whole array of different types of things. So, and I know that already. So that even comes from, if you look at the ufology of John Keel, he talks about this thing called the super spectrum.

And he's basically saying that some people, you know how humans only see certain visual, you know, light and dogs and cats see other things, right? So it could be that these objects are not, we cannot see them with the kind of, but some of us might be able to. Like some of us might be, the unlucky few that can see these kinds of things.

And he's basically saying that some people, you know how humans only see certain visual, you know, light and dogs and cats see other things, right? So it could be that these objects are not, we cannot see them with the kind of, but some of us might be able to. Like some of us might be, the unlucky few that can see these kinds of things.

Because, oh, this also occurs in massive events like Medjugorje, like Virgin Mary apparition sites, where only the visionaries can see the Virgin Mary, but no one else can. But they've been tested, and their eyes are tracking something absolutely, and they're all tracking the same thing. So they're seeing something. So, I mean, it's not just UAP stuff that's anomalous and weird.

Because, oh, this also occurs in massive events like Medjugorje, like Virgin Mary apparition sites, where only the visionaries can see the Virgin Mary, but no one else can. But they've been tested, and their eyes are tracking something absolutely, and they're all tracking the same thing. So they're seeing something. So, I mean, it's not just UAP stuff that's anomalous and weird.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

So if you are a normal person, not the best person, but not the worst person, you're not going to hell, right? So you go to this place called purgatory where it's supposed to be a place of purgation where you work off your sins and then that soul goes to heaven. Well, this was a doctrine of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. And it somehow went away.

So if you are a normal person, not the best person, but not the worst person, you're not going to hell, right? So you go to this place called purgatory where it's supposed to be a place of purgation where you work off your sins and then that soul goes to heaven. Well, this was a doctrine of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. And it somehow went away.

It's religious stuff too. So I think that we are coming into a space, and UAP is helping us do that, where the religious stuff is actually becoming much more real to us, at least for me. Like when I started to see UAP as real for these scientists, I started to think, this religious stuff that I've been looking at is real too.

It's religious stuff too. So I think that we are coming into a space, and UAP is helping us do that, where the religious stuff is actually becoming much more real to us, at least for me. Like when I started to see UAP as real for these scientists, I started to think, this religious stuff that I've been looking at is real too.

I mean, I actually believed in it, but I didn't believe in it as viscerally. I didn't believe in it as, you know, crying out for God to help me if, you know, through this because it's real. That's the kind of.

I mean, I actually believed in it, but I didn't believe in it as viscerally. I didn't believe in it as, you know, crying out for God to help me if, you know, through this because it's real. That's the kind of.

The magisterium.

The magisterium.

Some of them are horrified that people are even going to the Vatican and talking about the Vatican with respect to UFOs, and I understand why. I don't think that they're inclined to view it as UFOs. I think that they're inclined to view it as we live in a universe where God's created many things, and... These could be angels that people are seeing or demons.

Some of them are horrified that people are even going to the Vatican and talking about the Vatican with respect to UFOs, and I understand why. I don't think that they're inclined to view it as UFOs. I think that they're inclined to view it as we live in a universe where God's created many things, and... These could be angels that people are seeing or demons.

I think that a lot of people in the Vatican will look at it from a spiritual perspective. That's how they looked at it before. And I think that they're waiting for secular people to kind of get up to speed.

I think that a lot of people in the Vatican will look at it from a spiritual perspective. That's how they looked at it before. And I think that they're waiting for secular people to kind of get up to speed.

The ones that we're seeing now—okay, so— I have a particular perspective. It might change, but this is what my perspective is now. And it's purely my own based on, and I'm not advising anyone to believe what I believe. So that said, okay. And of course, this is nothing that can be put in a paper and peer reviewed and published.

The ones that we're seeing now—okay, so— I have a particular perspective. It might change, but this is what my perspective is now. And it's purely my own based on, and I'm not advising anyone to believe what I believe. So that said, okay. And of course, this is nothing that can be put in a paper and peer reviewed and published.

This is just my perspective on talking to Sean and telling you and people who listen to you. To me, this looks pretty weird, and I'm not liking it, okay? So I get a feeling from it, and I feel that— and especially what happened to me after American Cosmic was published. I had people surrounding me. So I had—first I was, you know, I had a— collegial friendship with Tyler and Gary.

This is just my perspective on talking to Sean and telling you and people who listen to you. To me, this looks pretty weird, and I'm not liking it, okay? So I get a feeling from it, and I feel that— and especially what happened to me after American Cosmic was published. I had people surrounding me. So I had—first I was, you know, I had a— collegial friendship with Tyler and Gary.

And we were studying this, these objects and things like that. And Tyler became a Catholic and or, you know, just much more Christian, let's put it that way, a believer, that what he was studying were like angels. And that changed his life. And then I felt, wow, what I'm studying is real. And that changed my life. So I was changed.

And we were studying this, these objects and things like that. And Tyler became a Catholic and or, you know, just much more Christian, let's put it that way, a believer, that what he was studying were like angels. And that changed his life. And then I felt, wow, what I'm studying is real. And that changed my life. So I was changed.

Directly after that, I was targeted by what my friend Tim Galladet would call counterintelligence. They had the same idea, by the way. They did not view these things as extraterrestrial. And they thought that they were bad. And so this group was... I got a distinct feeling that... there's something really bad happening. There's something really bad.

Directly after that, I was targeted by what my friend Tim Galladet would call counterintelligence. They had the same idea, by the way. They did not view these things as extraterrestrial. And they thought that they were bad. And so this group was... I got a distinct feeling that... there's something really bad happening. There's something really bad.

And I started to talk to people who now we call whistleblowers. So they would talk to me and they would say the same thing. They're afraid. They would be afraid. And by the way, none of those whistleblowers are at the congressional hearings, none of them. And they don't want to be. And in fact, most of the information that's getting taken from them is being taken in ways that are not

And I started to talk to people who now we call whistleblowers. So they would talk to me and they would say the same thing. They're afraid. They would be afraid. And by the way, none of those whistleblowers are at the congressional hearings, none of them. And they don't want to be. And in fact, most of the information that's getting taken from them is being taken in ways that are not

So it's still a doctrine, but Catholics don't know about it and they don't— pray for souls that are in purgatory anymore. It used to be a huge devotion. And I wanted to know why it disappeared. So I started to do archival research. So archives are libraries of old manuscripts and books from ancient times to the present.

So it's still a doctrine, but Catholics don't know about it and they don't— pray for souls that are in purgatory anymore. It used to be a huge devotion. And I wanted to know why it disappeared. So I started to do archival research. So archives are libraries of old manuscripts and books from ancient times to the present.

and not like what I would call nice, okay? It's uncomfortable. So I believe that if we were to call these things anything, they would be in the realm of like the angelic and the demonic. That's how I feel about them. Personally, right now, my mind might change in two years with more data.

and not like what I would call nice, okay? It's uncomfortable. So I believe that if we were to call these things anything, they would be in the realm of like the angelic and the demonic. That's how I feel about them. Personally, right now, my mind might change in two years with more data.

And I feel that because of the types of responses I've had from people who are associated with our government. And they shouldn't, in my opinion, they shouldn't be. That's how I feel. My experience is.

And I feel that because of the types of responses I've had from people who are associated with our government. And they shouldn't, in my opinion, they shouldn't be. That's how I feel. My experience is.

Yeah, this is, I think this is the first time I've actually shared it, to tell you the truth. I mean, I'm an academic and that's, you know, and I've been talking as an academic. I've been going to universities to talk. I've now, I'm now talking publicly. And this is the first time I've actually said that.

Yeah, this is, I think this is the first time I've actually shared it, to tell you the truth. I mean, I'm an academic and that's, you know, and I've been talking as an academic. I've been going to universities to talk. I've now, I'm now talking publicly. And this is the first time I've actually said that.

Okay, so are we talking about the UAP-affiliated type of technologies or the AI that's happening right now?

Okay, so are we talking about the UAP-affiliated type of technologies or the AI that's happening right now?

Okay, okay. So let's see. Well, obviously— we have some issues coming up with respect to AI and especially with things like Neuralink, right? Not to say it's bad, right? I'm just saying that we've got things to deal with as it's becoming much more rolled out to the public. So the cognitive sovereignty type of thing, I mean, I think there's a point, there's...

Okay, okay. So let's see. Well, obviously— we have some issues coming up with respect to AI and especially with things like Neuralink, right? Not to say it's bad, right? I'm just saying that we've got things to deal with as it's becoming much more rolled out to the public. So the cognitive sovereignty type of thing, I mean, I think there's a point, there's...

If you look at the Bible, the Bible does say this, that at some point, all the things that are hidden will be exposed, okay?

If you look at the Bible, the Bible does say this, that at some point, all the things that are hidden will be exposed, okay?

And I was talking to—this sounds weird, but a Game of Thrones producer, one of the producers for that show, and he was asking me what I thought would be kind of like if the apocalypse happened, how I thought it would roll out, because I think he's thinking of making a show about it or something. And I said, okay—and this made him nervous, too, which I thought was pretty funny. I said—

And I was talking to—this sounds weird, but a Game of Thrones producer, one of the producers for that show, and he was asking me what I thought would be kind of like if the apocalypse happened, how I thought it would roll out, because I think he's thinking of making a show about it or something. And I said, okay—and this made him nervous, too, which I thought was pretty funny. I said—

all those thoughts that you have, you know, they're all going to be known. And he was like, that's horrible. He's like, that's terrible. And I said, but actually that's literally what it says. So all the things that were hidden, you know, will be known. And what does that mean? I think part of it is what we're seeing with AI, you know, that we, our thoughts, what if our thoughts were known?

all those thoughts that you have, you know, they're all going to be known. And he was like, that's horrible. He's like, that's terrible. And I said, but actually that's literally what it says. So all the things that were hidden, you know, will be known. And what does that mean? I think part of it is what we're seeing with AI, you know, that we, our thoughts, what if our thoughts were known?

And there's some really great archives in the United States and, of course, at the Vatican. So I started to look in these archives for what Catholics in 1200 and 1300, you know, throughout time, thought of purgatory, basically. And as I was doing that work, I was writing a book, like a survey of purgatory. Well, it turns out purgatory was actually a place in Ireland. So there's actually a place.

And there's some really great archives in the United States and, of course, at the Vatican. So I started to look in these archives for what Catholics in 1200 and 1300, you know, throughout time, thought of purgatory, basically. And as I was doing that work, I was writing a book, like a survey of purgatory. Well, it turns out purgatory was actually a place in Ireland. So there's actually a place.

Like how would that happen? How would that change us, you know?

Like how would that happen? How would that change us, you know?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think so. But what if we, I mean, that's something to think about. But again, I said, look, I didn't make that up. That's actually there in the Bible. You can look it up.

I think so. But what if we, I mean, that's something to think about. But again, I said, look, I didn't make that up. That's actually there in the Bible. You can look it up.

Yeah, and that, of course, you know, I heard your discussion with the exorcist, I forgot his name.

Yeah, and that, of course, you know, I heard your discussion with the exorcist, I forgot his name.

Yeah, yeah, it was fascinating. Where, you know, he talked about this, and you did too, about the reading of the mind, right? So this you see in the Catholic historical record, and you also see it in almost all religious traditions, right? Where when a person has... Even people without doing a lot of the protocols or a lot of prayer or meditation, they have this ability.

Yeah, yeah, it was fascinating. Where, you know, he talked about this, and you did too, about the reading of the mind, right? So this you see in the Catholic historical record, and you also see it in almost all religious traditions, right? Where when a person has... Even people without doing a lot of the protocols or a lot of prayer or meditation, they have this ability.

It's called the discernment of souls to actually know a person's character or read their minds, right? And so, yeah, so I have that in that record I told you about the Joseph of Copertino. Apparently, he had that ability to know that kind of thing. Yeah, so it's probably just something that is possible, obviously it's possible.

It's called the discernment of souls to actually know a person's character or read their minds, right? And so, yeah, so I have that in that record I told you about the Joseph of Copertino. Apparently, he had that ability to know that kind of thing. Yeah, so it's probably just something that is possible, obviously it's possible.

Okay, so there is a talk that I give occasionally when I'm asked to do that, and that's to talk to teachers about the use of AI for college students and high school students. And it's not just AI, it's technology in general. And part of it is basically what happens to our brains when we're in certain developmental stages like we're 11 up to 19. So certain developmental stages happen in the brain.

Okay, so there is a talk that I give occasionally when I'm asked to do that, and that's to talk to teachers about the use of AI for college students and high school students. And it's not just AI, it's technology in general. And part of it is basically what happens to our brains when we're in certain developmental stages like we're 11 up to 19. So certain developmental stages happen in the brain.

And when – I don't want to call any social media out in particular, but some of them are created to – shift the brain.

And when – I don't want to call any social media out in particular, but some of them are created to – shift the brain.

Now, whether that's an intentional weaponization, which can damage the brains of young people, or whether it is something that coders did purposely to create a product that was addictive for monetary purposes, it's not doing us any favors because it's creating a generation now of people who have to fix that. because their brain has been trained on it.

Now, whether that's an intentional weaponization, which can damage the brains of young people, or whether it is something that coders did purposely to create a product that was addictive for monetary purposes, it's not doing us any favors because it's creating a generation now of people who have to fix that. because their brain has been trained on it.

So, you know, my work, my greater work even beyond UAP and Catholicism was looking at how technology and belief work together. I think you have Sean Webb on here. Do you know Sean Webb? Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, my work, my greater work even beyond UAP and Catholicism was looking at how technology and belief work together. I think you have Sean Webb on here. Do you know Sean Webb? Yeah, yeah.

I love Sean. Well, I don't know him in person. We've only corresponded, but I know his work. Yeah, so he's doing this too. He's trying to ameliorate this issue that we're having. And I do know coders and people who are working in AI who understand this. And then my friend Jose, who's the former Marine who was my student as well, he's working on a program also.

I love Sean. Well, I don't know him in person. We've only corresponded, but I know his work. Yeah, so he's doing this too. He's trying to ameliorate this issue that we're having. And I do know coders and people who are working in AI who understand this. And then my friend Jose, who's the former Marine who was my student as well, he's working on a program also.

He works directly with high school students. And what he's trying to do, too, is to help students.

He works directly with high school students. And what he's trying to do, too, is to help students.

adjudicate to to stop this happening because it's it's happening and um he says that it's it's a weapon that we're all now targets and whereas wars were fought before with certain you know certain people and targets now we're all the target because the weapons are now we carry them around right and we subscribe to them and so forth um and it's a very real It's a real thing.

adjudicate to to stop this happening because it's it's happening and um he says that it's it's a weapon that we're all now targets and whereas wars were fought before with certain you know certain people and targets now we're all the target because the weapons are now we carry them around right and we subscribe to them and so forth um and it's a very real It's a real thing.

It's still there. It's on an island called Loch Dirk, which is Red Lake, the Red Lake in Ireland. And it was a place where people thought that they could go to a cave, and if they withstood it for 24 hours, their souls would be cleansed after that. And they did this in the late medieval time period to about 1200.

It's still there. It's on an island called Loch Dirk, which is Red Lake, the Red Lake in Ireland. And it was a place where people thought that they could go to a cave, and if they withstood it for 24 hours, their souls would be cleansed after that. And they did this in the late medieval time period to about 1200.

So, you know, people at the university are slow to understand this. People in the high schools, the teachers see it, but they can't stop it. The parents can't stop it. The parents are probably addicted themselves. So, yeah, so this is the talk I give that I'm most happy about when I'm asked to give a talk because teachers come up to me and they're in tears. They want to help their students.

So, you know, people at the university are slow to understand this. People in the high schools, the teachers see it, but they can't stop it. The parents can't stop it. The parents are probably addicted themselves. So, yeah, so this is the talk I give that I'm most happy about when I'm asked to give a talk because teachers come up to me and they're in tears. They want to help their students.

I have teenagers, you know. And I have students. All my students are between the ages of 18 and like 24. This is what calls us. This is a problem that needs to be addressed now. We can't really put it off. So this is something that is more important to me than studying UAP or studying Catholic history. I'm more concerned about this.

I have teenagers, you know. And I have students. All my students are between the ages of 18 and like 24. This is what calls us. This is a problem that needs to be addressed now. We can't really put it off. So this is something that is more important to me than studying UAP or studying Catholic history. I'm more concerned about this.

and what it's doing to us.

and what it's doing to us.

I mean, when I tell them this, there's really no incentive for them to do this, so I understand that. But we've got to not raise our kids on it. We have to let our kids go outside.

I mean, when I tell them this, there's really no incentive for them to do this, so I understand that. But we've got to not raise our kids on it. We have to let our kids go outside.

We have to go outside because we could easily become addicted too. Most of my work is now online. And it shouldn't be. I'm a teacher. I should be like with my students. We should be talking to one another. So universities have to stop this process, which I believe is part of stopping the flourishing of Americans and humans.

We have to go outside because we could easily become addicted too. Most of my work is now online. And it shouldn't be. I'm a teacher. I should be like with my students. We should be talking to one another. So universities have to stop this process, which I believe is part of stopping the flourishing of Americans and humans.

Yeah, if we call it spiritual warfare, there's also real warfare, right? So I think they're both real. And I think that it's happening. We're having—so when I say we're targets, right, because of what's happening, that sounds like a conspiracy theory, right? And so people would call—I know people at my university would say, Diana, don't say that. You know, that makes it so bad and evil. But—

Yeah, if we call it spiritual warfare, there's also real warfare, right? So I think they're both real. And I think that it's happening. We're having—so when I say we're targets, right, because of what's happening, that sounds like a conspiracy theory, right? And so people would call—I know people at my university would say, Diana, don't say that. You know, that makes it so bad and evil. But—

The things that are happening, I go back to RFK's speech, you know, when he said he was going to be behind Trump. And he gave this speech. And he said, if we could just love our children more than we hate each other. And he talked about the injuries that children have, you know, because of certain things that are happening now. I mean, I thought that was truth right there, you know.

The things that are happening, I go back to RFK's speech, you know, when he said he was going to be behind Trump. And he gave this speech. And he said, if we could just love our children more than we hate each other. And he talked about the injuries that children have, you know, because of certain things that are happening now. I mean, I thought that was truth right there, you know.

And I thought that... That was something that I wish people in the school systems would take to heart because they're the kids that were charged with, you know, teaching. What are we doing, you know? We shouldn't be teaching them through the medium of the iPhone or the phone, you know?

And I thought that... That was something that I wish people in the school systems would take to heart because they're the kids that were charged with, you know, teaching. What are we doing, you know? We shouldn't be teaching them through the medium of the iPhone or the phone, you know?

If that's, I don't know. But if it is the case, we could easily get out of it. We could choose not to be under that influence. We have human freedom. We have freedom to make a choice.

If that's, I don't know. But if it is the case, we could easily get out of it. We could choose not to be under that influence. We have human freedom. We have freedom to make a choice.

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? You tell me, and I'll talk to you more about it. You give up to me, and I'll talk to you.

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? You tell me, and I'll talk to you more about it. You give up to me, and I'll talk to you.

Yeah, I definitely know what you mean.

Yeah, I definitely know what you mean.

Yeah, yeah. So this cave would have demons and things like that in it. So you have to survive that. being assaulted by beings of the afterlife in this cave. So for the medieval mind, they don't separate out, like— demons and angels and stuff, those were part of their reality. So this cave was the place where they could go to an underground area where they could have these battles.

Yeah, yeah. So this cave would have demons and things like that in it. So you have to survive that. being assaulted by beings of the afterlife in this cave. So for the medieval mind, they don't separate out, like— demons and angels and stuff, those were part of their reality. So this cave was the place where they could go to an underground area where they could have these battles.

I understand that. I get it. So I'll tell you a little bit about my struggle with that. And it was during the writing for Encounters. And that's when I already knew that the government was on the up and up with a lot of things. Okay, no problem. I get that. I've known that for a long time since I was young, okay?

I understand that. I get it. So I'll tell you a little bit about my struggle with that. And it was during the writing for Encounters. And that's when I already knew that the government was on the up and up with a lot of things. Okay, no problem. I get that. I've known that for a long time since I was young, okay?

But when it becomes so real to you, like for me it was the UAP thing, and I was like, okay, this is really – Then I began to ask this question, and then Jose influences me a lot by explaining warfare today, right? This is how warfare is fought today. Your kids are targeted.

But when it becomes so real to you, like for me it was the UAP thing, and I was like, okay, this is really – Then I began to ask this question, and then Jose influences me a lot by explaining warfare today, right? This is how warfare is fought today. Your kids are targeted.

And I can, and by the way, I actually homeschooled my kids for a while until I couldn't, you know, they exceeded my ability in certain areas. And so I could see once they transitioned to like school, right, how that would then impact them. And it was frightening to watch.

And I can, and by the way, I actually homeschooled my kids for a while until I couldn't, you know, they exceeded my ability in certain areas. And so I could see once they transitioned to like school, right, how that would then impact them. And it was frightening to watch.

And so I then was, you know, as a mom, but also as a professor who's been through this UAP kind of realization and recognition of, you know, the suppression of knowledge. Right. It brings it home to you when it's your kids. And so I was depressed, okay? I was depressed. And I was depressed for about a year, maybe longer. And so I thought, who has talked about this before?

And so I then was, you know, as a mom, but also as a professor who's been through this UAP kind of realization and recognition of, you know, the suppression of knowledge. Right. It brings it home to you when it's your kids. And so I was depressed, okay? I was depressed. And I was depressed for about a year, maybe longer. And so I thought, who has talked about this before?

And so for me, going to books is like what I do. So I looked back and I saw that, again, Plato's Republic, it talks about the cave, the allegory of the cave is like where, you know, you're in this cave and people are creating a fictional world. It's basically The Matrix. So if you haven't read Plato's Republic, The Matrix is about it. And then you've got Brave New World was Plato's, an update.

And so for me, going to books is like what I do. So I looked back and I saw that, again, Plato's Republic, it talks about the cave, the allegory of the cave is like where, you know, you're in this cave and people are creating a fictional world. It's basically The Matrix. So if you haven't read Plato's Republic, The Matrix is about it. And then you've got Brave New World was Plato's, an update.

of Plato's Republic. Then 1984 was also an update of the Allegory of the Cave. So this is the idea that there's something that's been hidden from us, and there are characters who are hiding it from us. And like in 1984, they want—they're terrible, right? They're going to try—there's a never-ending war, right, in 1984.

of Plato's Republic. Then 1984 was also an update of the Allegory of the Cave. So this is the idea that there's something that's been hidden from us, and there are characters who are hiding it from us. And like in 1984, they want—they're terrible, right? They're going to try—there's a never-ending war, right, in 1984.

And so people have been through this depression, Sean, and have like talked about it. And it made me more depressed because I was like, damn, it looks structural. It looks like this is just the structure of the world. Who else has said this? Well, Jesus did. Jesus said this. Jesus said, you must live in the world, but not be of it. Jesus also spoke in parables, which was code.

And so people have been through this depression, Sean, and have like talked about it. And it made me more depressed because I was like, damn, it looks structural. It looks like this is just the structure of the world. Who else has said this? Well, Jesus did. Jesus said this. Jesus said, you must live in the world, but not be of it. Jesus also spoke in parables, which was code.

He was speaking to his own audience, okay? He was speaking to the audience who had ears to hear. So that's when I was like, ah, now I finally understand. It takes me a while to really get something. So I had to go through those experiences in order to truly understand that not everybody's going to get it. And yeah, they're going to look like they're, you call it demonic experiences.

He was speaking to his own audience, okay? He was speaking to the audience who had ears to hear. So that's when I was like, ah, now I finally understand. It takes me a while to really get something. So I had to go through those experiences in order to truly understand that not everybody's going to get it. And yeah, they're going to look like they're, you call it demonic experiences.

I might call it they're in the matrix. Like there's different words to describe it, but they're not awakened to something that you and I feel like they should be awakened to. And in fact, they're hurting themselves, okay? See? So it's like something that's maybe the way it is.

I might call it they're in the matrix. Like there's different words to describe it, but they're not awakened to something that you and I feel like they should be awakened to. And in fact, they're hurting themselves, okay? See? So it's like something that's maybe the way it is.

It seems like it. I mean, if Socrates is talking about it through Plato, and then Jesus is talking about it, and then it gets redone in every generation, Brave New World, 1984, The Matrix in the 1990s. It's the same kind of recognition. Has anything been – like, what does this mean? I mean, I think it has a message for us. And so you and me, we're American. We want to save the world.

It seems like it. I mean, if Socrates is talking about it through Plato, and then Jesus is talking about it, and then it gets redone in every generation, Brave New World, 1984, The Matrix in the 1990s. It's the same kind of recognition. Has anything been – like, what does this mean? I mean, I think it has a message for us. And so you and me, we're American. We want to save the world.

We're like – we have it inbred that we can make it better. This can be better, right? But this kind of thing suggests that it's structural, just posing it. So –

We're like – we have it inbred that we can make it better. This can be better, right? But this kind of thing suggests that it's structural, just posing it. So –

And if they survived those battles, their sins would be forgiven. And that's not the only purgatory cave. There was one in Italy as well. So this was where the doctrine kind of like

And if they survived those battles, their sins would be forgiven. And that's not the only purgatory cave. There was one in Italy as well. So this was where the doctrine kind of like

Okay, so you're asking who are the puppet masters?

Okay, so you're asking who are the puppet masters?

Yeah, yeah. That's what I asked, too. So when we're taught in college or high school, we're taught the Plato's Republic thing, the Allegory of the Cave, and, you know, if you pay attention— you know that these people are in a cave and these puppet masters are making puppets on the wall and people think that that's reality.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I asked, too. So when we're taught in college or high school, we're taught the Plato's Republic thing, the Allegory of the Cave, and, you know, if you pay attention— you know that these people are in a cave and these puppet masters are making puppets on the wall and people think that that's reality.

And then one lucky person gets out and goes up out of the cave and says, wow, you know, there's a whole reality out here. I have an obligation to go back and tell these people that they're in a cave. They go back to tell the person they're in the cave. And this is how Socrates talks about it. He says... They'll kill you because they think you're crazy. And in fact, they think that person is crazy.

And then one lucky person gets out and goes up out of the cave and says, wow, you know, there's a whole reality out here. I have an obligation to go back and tell these people that they're in a cave. They go back to tell the person they're in the cave. And this is how Socrates talks about it. He says... They'll kill you because they think you're crazy. And in fact, they think that person is crazy.

Okay. So, all right. So that's kind of the setup. My question has always been, you know, and then you talk about it as a metaphor in college and stuff, and your professor talks about it. But my question was this, was, and my daughter, by the way, took a college class and it was on that. And so I said, who do you think those puppet masters are? And she said, mama, that's just an allegory.

Okay. So, all right. So that's kind of the setup. My question has always been, you know, and then you talk about it as a metaphor in college and stuff, and your professor talks about it. But my question was this, was, and my daughter, by the way, took a college class and it was on that. And so I said, who do you think those puppet masters are? And she said, mama, that's just an allegory.

There are no real puppet masters. And I was like, no, I think there are. I think there are. Think about it again. Go read it again. And so then I'd ask friends of mine who, you know, had read it and should know. And they were like, dang, I never thought about that. Finally, I found a philosopher who reached out to me, actually, saw me on a podcast and said, these puppet masters, I agree with you.

There are no real puppet masters. And I was like, no, I think there are. I think there are. Think about it again. Go read it again. And so then I'd ask friends of mine who, you know, had read it and should know. And they were like, dang, I never thought about that. Finally, I found a philosopher who reached out to me, actually, saw me on a podcast and said, these puppet masters, I agree with you.

They are a real thing. Like, Plato just doesn't put something in there. So who are these puppet masters? I think that's where George Orwell identifies it. And you know who agrees is Aldous Huxley. Aldous Huxley.

They are a real thing. Like, Plato just doesn't put something in there. So who are these puppet masters? I think that's where George Orwell identifies it. And you know who agrees is Aldous Huxley. Aldous Huxley.

emerged from and then it became an actual doctrine and then as time went on people started to think of it not as a place but as a state of being so that's how purgatory changed and i wrote that book so so i wrote that book but during the study of that book i I came upon aerial phenomena. So Catholics from 1200 up to 1800 saw things in the sky that they couldn't identify.

emerged from and then it became an actual doctrine and then as time went on people started to think of it not as a place but as a state of being so that's how purgatory changed and i wrote that book so so i wrote that book but during the study of that book i I came upon aerial phenomena. So Catholics from 1200 up to 1800 saw things in the sky that they couldn't identify.

So he has all your viewers, everyone should watch Aldous Huxley's, I think it's 1958 talk, maybe it's in the 60s, but I don't think so, at UC Berkeley, where he basically talks about the puppet masters. And it's his group.

So he has all your viewers, everyone should watch Aldous Huxley's, I think it's 1958 talk, maybe it's in the 60s, but I don't think so, at UC Berkeley, where he basically talks about the puppet masters. And it's his group.