Dennis Debbaudt
Appearances
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
How can we connect up with this community that's having a higher rate of contact for autism and developmental disabilities is still at about seven times higher contact rate than a typical person? How can we connect with these organizations and individuals So we can talk about these issues in a good environment where there's an exchange of information.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
No. I owned a detective agency in Detroit, Michigan, starting in 1981. When we moved down here to South Florida, I closed that place. Licensed down and did it down here till 2013. So it was a 37-year career as a big city detective agency owner. And I did focus on people and things that needed to be found.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
And there are really good examples around the country and in other countries where law enforcement may be the ones reaching out their hands. There may be advocates reaching out their hands to them.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
The more we spend, the more time that is spent talking about things that might have gone wrong, talking about expectations that are not realistic for the police, about the police, from parents, from police. The place to talk about that is through these opportunities to share information. And here's a group that is having a higher rate of contact. You know, it's not the La Cosa Nostra.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
The LCN is not going to want to meet with the police. But in most cases, the advocates do for folks with disabilities. The training is a policy decision to help get some skill sets developed, some of the when and how and why you might need to use them. But another community-oriented, command-level decision would be to do outreach to these communities and not allow it to be a one-off.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
A one-off is cool for the moment. It's like having a good meal. It wears off, and if you're eating bad meals after that, all you can do is think about the good one.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Absolutely. I can be reached at 772-398-9756 through email at ddpi at flash.net. The website, you can find some of those materials at and links to it. is autismriskmanagement.com. Or they can contact you, Tony, and you know how to get a hold of me. You found me.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Yeah, these days now, I haven't been in this and researching it now for 35 years and the lived experience closer to 40. I am training other people who are interested in and have a strong interest and skillset level to go out and conduct these training sessions in their communities.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Maybe to give something back if they're a PhD or they're in ABA or in social work or they're educators, or it could be officers who are retired or family members, could be a brother, sister, Or it can be, and it is, agencies and individuals who see the need for this and want to go back to someone who has been successfully doing this for 30 years.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
I do have lesson plans and material that can help someone get going in this area.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Right. It will be ongoing. There are other populations, the more that we get together. And then there are other factors that get in the way, how politics could get in the way of it, funding issues. But basically, this is frontline contacts that are going to take place, whether it's addressed in the training room or not. Help the law enforcement be prepared as they possibly can.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Nothing is perfect. We can't complain about things that are imperfect because life is not perfect.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
And it's about everyone's safety first. It's about developing realistic expectations of what's going to happen and how. you can become involved in being an agent of change. That can be simply telling your story, your lived experiences. Talk about it. Write about it. Let people know. I know disclosure is an issue that others and many others, and you have to address it as it goes.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
It's not like, well, I will always disclose. No, you got to make decisions. Disclose to the guy I'm buying a hamburger from? No, maybe not. But there might be a time and place where that might be useful. So having that skill set and having the information available in the 21st century here in 2025,
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
So that put me in contact with the FBI, state police, and local police all around the country and in other countries too when necessary. It was that background. And then I also had a brief flirtation with freelance reporting. So my work was seen in the Detroit News and monthly Detroit Magazine and then in documentaries too out of the UK and Canada. Their son was born in 1983.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
There is great technology for our information that's important about an individual and key it up to wherever they're at at the time to alert law enforcement that here's somebody that needs a different approach and, in fact, create that personal plan and have it placed voluntarily, mind you, in the emergency call center or 911. There are places for disclosure that we need to explore further.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
And I think in the future, technology is going to catch up to this quicker than I expected. There is no perfect answer. The more people thinking about it, the better off we'll all be.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
No problem. Thank you too, Tony. And thank you for doing this important work. You're doing what we're suggesting out here right now.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Within a couple of years, we were having that lived experience kind of like what you had a year ago. You didn't know anything about it. And neither did we.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
What I did discover as a researcher and an investigator once I had enough lived experience to try to find some solutions was that this population and their interactions with the policing, public safety, and criminal justice system had not been reported on ever. And when you write something or produce something, It's not your judgment, ultimately, whether or not somebody reads it or hears it.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
It'll be the consumer. And so when I did write my first report, I got a lot of positive feedback on that in 1993.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Basically started with the autism spectrum disorder, the lack of information that I needed in the late 80s, early 90s, and then realizing that there isn't any of this out here. If you're interested, you're going to have to dig in a bit. which I did do. So it's autism-focused.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
I've learned that prior to my efforts, there were the crisis intervention team models prior to that, back in the late 60s, and then information and training materials video that date back to the late 50s. Interactions that people with conditions of the brain or neurological disorders, mental illness, if you will, they were having a higher rate of contact
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
with added risk for law enforcement, probably since law enforcement's been around.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Those contacts were troublesome at that point in time. A new group of people grew in front of our eyes, and that new group was autism. Even when our son was diagnosed, the rate of autism was thought to be 2 to 5 in every 10,000 people. By the time we got his official diagnosis, it had gone down, if you will, to 1 in 1250 people.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
The end of the 1990s is now well under 500, and currently today it's 1 in 36. What the contacts of these interactions consisted of, even back in the 90s with my early research part of the internet, those contacts continue to happen. The difference now between now and then is there are thousands more, tens of thousands of more autistic people out here that we've identified.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Well, I was reporting what I found as a dad, as someone from a related area of work. I was interacting with the police, so operational policing was... not foreign to me. And it was troubling when I could find nothing out here. So when I wrote my first report and then the second one, it got a lot of attention, a lot of positive feedback. And we were living in Detroit at that time.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
The Detroit Police Department heard me speak on it at a mixed day-long information exchange with folks with Alzheimer's, people with mental illness, and I was covering the autism issue. It was something fresh and new there. And DPD heard what I had to say, found it useful, and asked me to come into their training academy. That was 1995, so we're still doing it.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
The FBI accepted an offer for myself and a PhD from a curriculum project in Maryland in the late 90s. They accepted our proposal to publish in the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin. And that just opened a lot of doors at the time. Yeah, NYPD, Chicago PD, now the Department of Homeland Security. It hadn't been created back in those early days. many other large and small agencies here in Canada.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
It's taken me to the East, Southeast and the UK and
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Yeah, and the belief here is if we want to help law enforcement discover that person they may be interacting with might have autism, the more people with autism that they get to view, see, and meet, whether it's on video or or alive, the better their outcome will be.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
It's great to have talking heads such as myself with live variants, but nothing takes place of that kind of evidence, and it's memorable.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Yeah, I would say, Tony, that every session that I do includes that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Nobody, even the greatest autism experts in the field of diagnosis can do a field diagnosis and say with absolute accuracy and certainty that this person's autistic. to bring up the potential that they might be autistic is where the training goes and showing some of the lived experiences where things could have turned out better and where training can address that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
So certainly the slang, the jargon, and the terminology that emanates out of the autism community is below haggard fruit here. So if you hear these key words, stimming, and many others, the best place you first want to hear them would be in the training room.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
There's still no guarantee that this person is autistic, but there are street signs that I first became aware of in the late 90s, so traffic signs in neighborhoods, bumper stickers, hats, license plates. Half of the states, over half of the states in America, have an opportunity for anyone to purchase A specialty license plate features autism awareness and the word autism, I might add.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
So all of this is part of basic scene assessment for risk that are specific to, again, low-hanging fruit is when you see these images, it gives you a green light to start talking about autism. There are also folks who choose not to disclose. So the word and the concept of disclosure is probably the law enforcement's biggest enemy here.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
They don't know somebody is autistic or has mental health conditions or otherwise. It's kind of hard to shift your gears when some of the behaviors and characteristics that you're experiencing in the moment do ape people who are getting ready to commit a crime or who just have committed a crime. So disclosure becomes the enemy, but it's also your best friend when you have
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Absolutely. The numbers were much smaller in the 90s and the early part of the 21st century. And I go out of my way as a presenter trainer to ask that those questions to elicit who's in the audience that I do that in minute one of the training. That's the first thing I do.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
You mean family members who have an autistic child or anybody?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
The common feedback, and this dates back to the mid-90s Detroit Police Academy, is, hey, buddy, I really appreciate the information you had, if I'd have only known, because I have met folks like that throughout my career. I just didn't know it at the time. Right. So that kind of feedback, that it made sense, and it connected troubling contacts where they thrown for the loop here.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
And we can also add in that autistic people, in spite of everything that we may be trying, can be aggressive to family members or people that they don't know, strangers. And if strangers are in uniform, there's the consideration of some use of force. So that is also addressed.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Well, happy to. And thank you for this wonderful project that you're on here. It will make a difference.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Yeah, I don't have the opportunity to go back and hear these stories when they happen. The folks that say, I've had these contacts that you're describing, and after they get a half day or a longer session or even a shorter session, they're going to see and hear from a variety of different people under different circumstances that'll cue them in.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
So if that's happening and we're hearing about it during the session, what you're suggesting, Tony, absolutely is happening out here. There are more and more folks who are in careers in law enforcement, in public safety, in criminal justice professions. who are carrying forth the training. They are now conducting the training, which is a good thing.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
Involving autistic people in these trainings live, as long as they're volunteering to do it, to hear their perspective live in person is extremely important. There are a variety of ways to get the examples of these images that they may see and hear.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
And they need to do that under the obligation to make sure that it's safe to try these techniques of investing extra time, giving people more personal space, using varied forms of communication, and then repeat this over and over. You can get somebody who may be in an aggressive state or in a meltdown, give them the time to get through it.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Dennis Debbaudt : reveals how proper training can prevent tragic misunderstandings between autism and law enforcement.
If they're not harming themselves or anybody else, it's time. And there, after the training sessions, there are other policy decisions for policing and public safety and criminal justice systems.