Denise Martinez-Ramundo
Appearances
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
I mean, she was the other woman. Matt Baker had an affair. She had been approached by law enforcement, by investigators, and she was not forthcoming, you know, multiple times. But in the end, you know, she did the right thing. She was given immunity for her testimony. And it was her testimony about the plot, about how he was planning to kill Carrie, that in the end really is what got him convicted.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
I mean, I think we spoke to the jury foreperson. I think they struggle because she had said different stories. She wasn't forthcoming. But I think in the end, they realized that she was basically exposing herself, that she had nothing to gain at that point. And I think that was really kind of like a turning point for them.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
And I think they also realized that what she said in court, that here he was a preacher. You know, who will believe her? You know, who will believe her? So I think that really kind of got to the jury.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah. And the defense, he had, you know, they were asking, you know, why should we believe you when, you know, you had said so many inconsistent stories in the past?
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah. I mean, that's the testimony was key to get him convicted.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
We also spoke to Abdon Rodriguez. He was the investigator from the district attorney's office. He's known as the human lie detector, apparently. He knew right away that Vanessa Bowles was not being truthful, and he felt that she was the key to solving this case. He was able to get her to testify in front of a grand jury, and that was the turn for this case.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah, I mean, at the time of the trial, they obviously believed their dad. They believed that their mom had died of an accidental overdose. So it really was a long journey for them. They eventually, Carrie's parents, gained custody of the daughters. And we've known that it was a long journey for them to understand what really happened to their mother.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
I mean, it was really hard. I mean, because their daughters were roughly the same age as my two older daughters are now. So thinking about how, you know, they've lost their mom. And obviously, you know, if the mom is gone, they will turn to their dad. You know, their dad is the other figure that is there to protect them, to care for them. And I saw that on the video. And then to know that then...
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
he's the one that, you know, killed their mom and now he's gone. It must have been so difficult for them to kind of go through that process and then kind of lose both of those people that are supposed to care the most about them.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
I think this story is really fascinated on so many levels. I mean, here you have a preacher, and he's not only a preacher, he's also a dad, you know, of two young girls. Going through the footage, I mean, you can see how complex of a character he is. I He is leading his congregation. And then he comes home. He's a dad. But at the same time, he's having this salacious affair on the side.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
You know, one of the attorneys called him a dark angel, that he has this complex persona. And so it's very interesting to kind of dig deeper and see how many layers the story has and that we can kind of bring it to our audience in a fresh new way.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
I think nobody expected that. Even when he was arrested, I think nobody believed that he could be responsible for the murder.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah, I think this is unlike any other story that I've worked on, because here we had three different interviews with Matt Baker. One of them actually took place after he had been arrested and out on bail. So he let us in bed on his home. So we are seeing him playing around with his daughters, helping with homework. And here's the man who had killed his wife.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Yes. And when you look at the footage, me as a mom, I'm looking at him as a very caring dad. He's helping his daughters. He talks about help them, you know, pick their outfits for the day. So I myself, I'm doubting, could these men have done that? So you can tell how he was comfortable on what he believed and thought that he could convince everybody.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
So he let our cameras in and it was quite remarkable to be able to see that firsthand with our cameras.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
To you, did he just seem like a harmless guy? He definitely seemed like a good dad. He seemed somebody who cared. We actually get to go along with them when they go out to a restaurant. He happens to encounter some of his students. He was a substitute teacher. And they say hello. They talk about what a nice guy he was. He really cared about us.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
So you could really see how he probably had everybody convinced because he actually seemed to be like a nice guy to everybody who knew him.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah, it's interesting because in our past coverage, we had only segments. You know, now we put together these two-hour documentaries. So we really have the time to present the viewers like a real time, how the story evolved over time. So, you know, we are showing him the way he did. He wanted to present himself as somebody innocent, as somebody who didn't do anything.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
And then the viewers can actually see that. They can also see, you know, once allegations come forward, you know, he becomes a little more defensive, right? So I think it's by going through those tapes that we are able to kind of pick and choose so that the viewer can kind of get to experience the same way that the story unfolded back in the day.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah, I mean, you know, we obviously interviewed him. He actually, unlike other people, he had he went on this kind of press tour. He was happy to open the door to anybody who wanted to talk to him. And actually, that worked against him because he changed his story every time he gave a new interview. Actually, he told us a different story in our show, and that got to be played in court.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Well, you know, Carrie's death was ruled a suicide, but her family did not believe it. So they took it upon themselves to do their own investigation. You know, they wanted to dig deeper and kind of find the evidence and find, you know, an ally and an attorney, somebody that can take the case and really push it to the authorities so they can really look into the case.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
So they themselves became the investigators in some way. And it was because of their persistence and determination that this case actually was able to get solved and get justice for Kerry.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
I mean, I think it was Carrie's aunt initially that believed she hadn't killed herself. The mom had a hard time believing that her son-in-law, this pastor, could have done that. So I think it took convincing the mom first.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
But I think once they saw the evidence of phone calls to another woman and him moving on with his life weeks after his wife's murder, I think they quickly realized that there was something more there and that they needed to take action.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
I mean, I wish I could take all the credit, but to be honest, it was the prosecutors. The prosecutors had wanted to put Matt to the test. They had actually built a replica of the bedroom with a dummy roughly the size that Carrie was at the time of her death in the courtroom.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
If he were to testify, they were going to put him to the test so the jury could see, could he have done everything he said he did?
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
So basically, you know, we have a 911 call where you hear him allegedly, you know, he later tells that he dressed his wife, that he was twice naked. He dressed her. He moved her to the floor, turned her around, and then began CPR.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Trying to save her life. And all of this in about two minutes. The prosecutors felt that this could not have been done in that time frame. Plus, he did not sound winded at all in the 911 call. So they wanted him to show that. Unfortunately, I think... I think the lawyer had learned about that. They decided not to testify. So he couldn't, he didn't do it.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
So we decided like, how about we kind of tried it ourselves? So we decided to kind of do the same thing that we're trying to do. And then we wanted to get a dummy and figure out if the Texas Ranger could have done what he, what Matt Baker said he did.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah, I mean, I think it's I think it's one thing to kind of say it or say like, oh, two minutes, you know, what can you do in two minutes? But I think to put it to the test in the sense that, you know, prosecutors argue that it couldn't have been done. And so we wanted to see, like, could it be done? So we want I think visually it's important for the viewer to kind of see what it takes.
20/20
The After Show: Dirty Little Secret
And I think like even experts say, like, it's not the same thing like moving a dead body like that, like that moving an actual, you know, live in person. It's just it doesn't take the amount of effort. And I think like once you see it, you kind of can understand what the prosecutors were trying to show to expose, you know, the lies that Matt Baker said on his 911 call.