Deland McCullough
Appearances
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Actually, I've been joking. I am throwing myself a book baby shower wherein I buy myself a push present. Because honestly, and though the labor maybe wasn't as painful as a human baby, but at the beginning I was like, to quote you earlier, holy shit, why did I choose to do this?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Well, everyone was convinced he was getting drafted. This was a guy whose numbers were up there with the top running back prospects. And he was sitting with his agent on draft night watching, expecting to be called, you know, maybe third or fourth round.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
The Cincinnati Bengals call him early in the draft and they're like, hey man, you excited? He's like, yeah. And they're like, all right, we're thinking about you. He's like, whoa, okay. He doesn't get drafted. A couple teams call right when the draft ends and, you know, extend the training camp offers. He ends up with the Bengals. It is the best situation because of their depth chart.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
He is going to make the surprise move of an undrafted guy making that roster. He's leading the NFL in preseason rushing yards.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Every kind of damage, you know, compound fracture, MCLAC, all that stuff. And he, over the next couple of years, really puts his time in to try to make it back to the NFL. Then the CFL, and at one point even gives a little time to the XFL. The XFL.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
He really wanted to try to make it work as a player. But ultimately, this guy just keeps getting handed a tough deal and finding a way through it, finding resilience. And he actually wanted to get into education to help kids who had come up in tough times like he did. So while he's trying to make it in football, he's working his way at residential centers for at-risk youth.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Then he goes into teaching and he's trying to help kids and then he becomes a principal. So like all these ways he's trying to learn how to be an impactful male figure in the lives of young people, especially those who have tough childhoods. And football starts sneaking its way and everybody hears that he was the big football player.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
So he starts coaching and he realizes he can use football to uplift kids and make it even more compelling for them to want to stay in school and learn these lessons by using this sport that he loves.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Well, football pulls him back. And of course, he ends up at Miami of Ohio is where he gets his first college coaching gig. And he's not there for too long. He has pretty immediate success, gets recruited to go coach at Indiana, has success there, helps a couple running backs to the NFL. And he gets nominated for Coach of the Year honors.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Well, I am worried about you after you did that interview where you said some of your articles, you actually changed the words in sentences so that the ends of them would line up in a paragraph so it looked nice. I was like, oh, he should never write a book.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And he starts doing some coaching internships in the NFL and really starts to set his sights on some bigger programs and the opportunities at the pro level. He ends up doing one of his coaching internships actually with the Seattle Seahawks, which is where Coach Sherman Smith was, coaching under Pete Carroll. And he gets a chance to really use his skill set.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
In some of the other internships, they kind of just had him watch, but Coach Sherman Smith puts him right in there. And he starts to recognize pretty immediately, Dillon does, that his coaching style is really similar to his old coach. He really picked up a lot of messages from him as, I'm going to be a role model and a leader. I'm going to treat these guys like full human beings.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
I'm not trying to scare them into anything. I'm going to give them respect and they're going to give me respect in turn. The guys think that he's being a giant kiss ass, that he's just really trying to impress everyone and show them that he's deserving of a spot in the NFL. And they're making fun of him for copying everything Sherman does. You walk like him, you talk like him, you want to be him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And he kind of is at first a little embarrassed. And then he realizes, I don't care if they know that this is how bad I want it. And he literally starts changing his passwords to I will coach in the NFL. He's trying to like manifest it that hard.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
USC comes calling, one of the greatest programs in all of college football history. So he's on a plane with his family. He's got kids at this point and ends up in Southern California. And he is getting some major side eye when he arrives. He's got some very unique coaching styles. He likes to fill footballs with water. to make them really heavy and harder to hold.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And then when you get back to the normal football, you're clenching it tighter. He's got a big pylon with a stick, and he's jabbing guys as they're trying to run by to poke the ball out to get them to practice holding on. And that running back's crew is ready to go, and he has yet another really successful squad.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And he realizes there's still a part of him that very much wants to know who he is. And he starts looking on websites and sort of isn't fully committed. And then there's a moment that his mom calls him where the lawyer that helped her facilitate his adoption has passed away and she can get a box of records from his office.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Things like the orphanage where you were adopted. And he's like, wait, an orphanage?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
She reveals his name was originally John. And he said, why? Why John? She said, I don't know. It's maybe religious or something. Who knows?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And so first he starts looking in Ohio and ultimately is able to get the call back that they found his papers. But the woman on the other end says, I can't tell you them. I can't send them to you. And he says, what do you mean? And he realizes that she's holding papers for a different state. You remember I said his mom said Pittsburgh. That's where we went to pick up Dylan when we adopted him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
So even though he grew up in Ohio, he was actually born and adopted in Pennsylvania and the laws were different in that state.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Have you seen someone for that?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Well, first he is sort of surprised at how thin the envelope is and figures it must be something telling him they couldn't find it. And imagine getting the mail and it's like, you know, 10% off at Bed Bath & Beyond and then your birth certificate. Like that's how unassuming this letter was.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
So they all start Googling. He plugs in Carol D. Briggs in a couple places and ends up finding her, sends her a message on Facebook, and essentially just says, did you have a baby that you gave up for adoption in Pennsylvania in 1971?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And at first she accepts the message but doesn't answer. And then he sends a follow-up question mark.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
So she had been a 16-year-old honor student, had had an oopsie, and her family sent her off to an orphanage slash home for mothers and girls in Pennsylvania to have the baby in private, be pregnant in private, and then go back to school with no one the wiser. She didn't tell anyone but her parents and her one cousin.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
She didn't even tell the dad because he was already off to college and she felt responsible.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Probably passed him in the aisles at the grocery store. They were in the exact same place. And it just happened to be that the family that adopted him out of Pennsylvania was a family that lived in Youngstown.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
At first, he thinks, well, wait, if you're in Youngstown, do I have siblings? Like, I might know them, right? If you had other kids, I might have grown up with them. Who else in my family might I have known? And she did not get married. She didn't have any other kids. And she'd been looking for him for years.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And it's just really heartwarming how much joy she felt in not only finding out he was okay and successful, but now she has a son and grandkids and this extended family.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Yeah. He says, it doesn't list a father on my birth certificate. And he asks her, do you know who my father is?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Yeah, so the protagonist and co-author, his name's Dillon McCullough. He is currently the Raiders running backs coach.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Right. He's nervous about it and isn't sure what to say, but he asks his birth mom, Carol, if he can be the one to tell him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
45 years later, he's going to get a phone call from someone who says, I'm your son, that he knows.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
He's spent his entire life wondering about his birth parents. But for Sherman, it's zero to 45-year-old son with no warning. He hasn't been looking for that. He has a happy wife and family and kids. But he almost doesn't want to imagine that he could be the kind of person who made a choice that resulted in other people having to be responsible.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
He had always told his players, there's no such thing as irresponsibility. When you're irresponsible, someone else becomes responsible for what you didn't do. He has led a life leading young men and telling them how to be. And then he recognizes that he might not have been the guy he always thought he was. And so at first, he's not overjoyed the way Dylan would hope. He needs some time.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And then he starts thinking about how the story isn't his, it's Dillon's. How Dillon has spent his whole life looking for this piece of himself and how he needed to stop centering himself and consider what it meant to Dillon to find him and really consider that it could be true. They get a paternity test. It's 99.9999999%.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And as he's waiting for those results, he realizes that he will in fact be very sad if he is not his father. By this point, he's come around to the idea that they've had this connection, that this story is almost faded.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
It isn't crystallized until they see each other in person for the first time after knowing their connection as father-son. Dillon's actually got recruiting trips that allow him to get near Tennessee and where Sherman lives in retirement and goes there for the very first time to see his dad as his dad. There's this just incredible moment, and I cry every time I think about it. I cried writing it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
I cried the first time Dylan said it. But Dylan goes to see him for the first time in person after they know of their connection as father-son. And he's nervous and sitting in the car, and Sherman looks out the window and sees him sitting, and he's like, oh, this cat's nervous. Like, he's just sitting out in his car, not coming up, even though we've known each other for years.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
He was most recently with Notre Dame, helping them to the national championship. Previous to that, famously with the Kansas City Chiefs, helped them to a Super Bowl.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
His adoptive dad left when he's two. He hasn't had a dad since. And he didn't realize how much he was carrying feelings of, am I enough? Am I worthy? Does someone want to claim me? And for this man, this ideal of a person to embrace him and call him his son, he just sort of let his inner child release and cry and be embraced by this man.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
It's been joyful, mostly, and also complicated. And for me, doing the story the first time, we did a lot of work on it, but nothing like writing a book. So the hours and hours of interviews, all the people I talk to, all the detail I unravel. And I mean, there's a twist with his brother that I didn't know the first time I reported it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
that I think is day one stuff if I was talking to someone and his brother didn't think it was day one stuff. So I didn't find out till I start writing the book that there's a whole nother parental twist that goes on in his family, even before what happens with his dad. And so you have to read the book for that. There's a tease that we're not giving away in this interview.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
But yeah, as I'm doing more of these interviews and I'm talking to everyone in the family, I am working so hard to understand each perspective. You've got an adoptive mom in Adele who sacrificed so much to raise these two boys as a single mom, thinking that she was going to have this partner in AC, the radio DJ, and instead she's alone, post-industrial collapse, not a lot of money.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And they turn out so well. They become these successful young men. And then here come these birth parents who have a lot of judgment at first about what he went through as a kid. They wanted the best for him. Both Sherman as someone who cared about him and had met him as a young man, and then Carol who gave him away with the expectation he would end up in a two-family home.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
everything would be this idyllic setting you imagine, an adoptive family that really wants a baby and can't have one of their own. And instead, he has this really tough childhood. And so it's almost a role reversal of a lot of adoption stories you hear, right? Where the birth parents are struggling or fighting something, they give up a baby and here come the saviors to fix everything.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And instead, you've got these two incredible, well-adjusted, successful adults looking at this woman who did her very best, but still struggled at times. And so to really understand like what he got from Adele, his adoptive mom, and then what almost certainly came to him through DNA, how similar he is to Sherman, even though they didn't meet until he was 17 years old.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And even though he was in his life as a mentor, but not all the time, like how he became, I mean, the same exact life.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
won a Super Bowl, lost a Super Bowl, both of them to Tom Brady, had sons, son goes to Miami of Ohio, plays defensive back, is a teacher. It's just, it's remarkable.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Yeah, I mean, he just took a job with the Raiders, and he is now coaching under the boy wonder who I guess never ages and retires, Pete Carroll, who could be both the head coach of his dad as a running backs coach and now the head coach of Dylan with the Raiders.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And so understanding that we are both a product of what made us and also of everything around us also implies choice, which is like the through line of this book is yes, you are handed certain genes.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Yes, you are handed certain family, certain circumstances, but your choice at every turn impacts whether you make it out, whether you make it right, whether you make it good, whether like Dylan, you decide to end a bunch of cycles that you don't think serve you or your kids. I don't want to be a father who abandons his family. I don't want to be abusive.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
I don't want to be somebody who doesn't stick around. I want to be the opposite of what I saw. And I think especially with adoption, that's very poignant because with adoption, it's I could be anyone. I could live anywhere. I could be named anything. Like instead, he said at every turn, I'm in charge and this is my choice.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Well, and here's your final fun fact. Two of the executive producers on the film we are planning to make but have not yet signed a studio to are Russell Wilson and Sierra. Ha ha ha! Just like Sir Mix-a-Lot, I'm just dropping that in.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
I wasn't familiar with him either, but a friend of mine in Chicago here played college football with him, which is how the story came to me. Sort of out of the blue and out of nowhere, he sat me down when we were grabbing drinks. I was like, oh, I got to tell you this crazy story. And within probably less than three minutes of the story, chills, almost in tears.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And guess what? The potential for this film is unlimited. Oh, my God.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Gosh, he does know what I'm up to. He used to be a regular listener to Spain and Fitz on ESPN Radio.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
I remember that I posted about the car and it being Sir Mix-a-Lot's on Twitter and tagged him. I don't think he responded, though. I remember the last exchange I had with Sir Mix-a-Lot was, not surprisingly, about butts.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And I was like, oh, we got to do something with this.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Yes, that Twitter exchange is not in the book, but lots of other good stuff is. So, you know, read it, buy it, order it, tell your friends.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
He's adopted by a young couple who's very much in love that already have a son welcomed to the family. And the dad is this guy named A.C. McCullough, who's a popular local radio DJ in Youngstown.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
It's the guy who would announce on the radio if there was a snow day. The guy who would introduce you to the latest Top 40 hit. The hottest hits.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
and you'd get to hear the song for the first time. This is the 70s and 80s that he starts out. So the radio, in particular local radio, was such a huge part of people's everyday life. Yes.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
So after some of the local concerts in Youngstown, folks would come over to their house for after parties to get a late night home-cooked meal and keep the party going. So Dillon was around, Tiny Tim. Very old-fashioned now for young people. There would always be stacks of tickets to a variety of local, you know, bands or concerts that were happening in their house.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
But after about two years, the couple doesn't make it. He leaves. And for Dylan, there's a particular pain in the fact that he hears his father's voice every day on the radio, but his father wants nothing to do with him in life. And then his mother brings in another husband, some other boyfriends, really hoping to provide a father figure, but her choices never really match her intentions.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And they are abusive. One of them has a crack problem.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
You need to understand that there were so many people struggling in Youngstown, trying to pay for heat and electricity, trying to put food on the table, trying to stay out of jail. People around him were struggling with so many big things. And so, Dillon, how long has he known that he is adopted? At about seven years old, he's sitting on the floor at a friend's house.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
His mom is talking with friends, and he's playing with a toy, and he overhears his mom say, Pittsburgh. That's where we went to get Dillon when we adopted him. And he says, I'm adopted? And she says, yep, and then goes back to her conversation. And they try to talk about it again in the car very briefly and sort of shuts it down.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And it becomes pretty clear to him that it's not really something to talk about. And for him, there was not really the privilege of, let me do some navel gazing about my identity and where I come from, right? It's like, how do I get by today and tomorrow and the next day? And how does my family get by? So he really didn't talk about it with his mom again for 30 years.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Well, yeah, his brother actually plays football too, and he's quite good. And at first he's in the shadow of his brother. He grew up so shy. And because he had so much self-doubt, he sort of was okay being in the background on the football team. He just liked being out there.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And then from somewhere within himself is this drive to work harder than everyone.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
He had been both a running back and a defensive back in high school, and there was a great running back ahead of him for most of his career. So he was sort of like, oh, I'm just not good enough. That guy graduates, and all of a sudden he gets a lot more touches and is blowing people out of the water as a senior.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Bob Stoops is trying to come after him. Jim Trestle. Guys who are now essentially Hall of Famers, but were at the beginning of their careers. There's this moment, too, for him where he's deeply embarrassed by his family's situation. He understands how hard it is for his mom, but he also...
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
is so embarrassed to have these big-name coaches in his living room where they have a giant orange extension cord snaking out of the house, through the window, and into their neighbors to borrow electricity because they can't afford it. They don't have hot water.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
He doesn't have a phone until his senior year, which becomes very important as he's taking recruiting calls that they actually do have a working phone. So he's sitting in class, and he looks out the window, and he sees this cherry-apple-red Mercedes
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And a moment later, he gets a pink slip to go to the office, and the guy that came out of the car was actually there to see him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Sherman Smith had played for the Seahawks and stayed after to coach and had just left Seattle for Miami of Ohio to go coach at his alma mater, and he drove out this car that he bought from an up-and-coming rapper named Sir Mix-a-Lot.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Yeah, yeah, me too. But yeah, he goes to the office and meets this guy Sherman, and he realizes that this aura is coming from someone who had really made it, was from Youngstown, was like him, but had gone on to the NFL. And now he was talking to a guy that had been a star at the highest level and who believed that he might be that too.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Well, Sherman drives back to Youngstown to pick them up and then takes them there over Christmas break. And a lot of folks are home, but there's a couple teammates around. Introduced him to the rest of the coaching staff, walked him around. Like, he loved this school, the facilities, the campus.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And then also the character that Sherman showed Adele, Dillon's adoptive mom, just a good guy who cared about his education, wanted to be a good role model for him. That really impacted them too. Adele wanted to make sure he went somewhere that if he got hurt or if it didn't work out, he still got an education.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Yeah, that was my response when I first heard the story, was pretty much holy f***.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Well, he's going to be a running back. And so in the weeks before he arrives, they tell him, we're actually going to put you at flanker. He's going to get a lot of playing time. And he was in practice one day. They're getting ready for their last kind of scrimmage.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And so we went to meet with Sherman Smith and said, I'd rather take a redshirt year and really work to be a running back than be a flanker. So we did that. He actually stepped away from playing time to get to do the thing he wanted to do most, which meant being on the scout team, being a redshirt, and having to sit and watch for a whole season.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
Just a real player's coach, an inspiring guy with really high standards, extremely high standards. He would say to every team at the beginning of the season, None of you asked me to be a father, but I'm going to treat you like you're my sons. He cared as much about how do I make these players full human beings that are going to be successful in life as he did about the football side.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And so even though Dillon is mostly working with assistants because the starters are the ones who get most of the time with the running backs coach and the head coach, he still goes after practice and spends a lot of time just connecting with Sherman and really asking him for advice.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
PTFO - One Yard at a Time: A Mystery
And he doesn't want to go at first, but the rest of the coaching staff says, like, this is a great opportunity. You got to go.