David E. Sanger

Well, they weren't let go yet, Michael. It was interesting. They were gathered on a two- or three-minute Zoom call. This was well over 100 career people who work at the National Security Council but actually are detailed from the State Department, the Pentagon, the CIA. And they were told, go home. Don't call us. We'll call you. Don't go on your email. Don't do any work.

Well, they weren't let go yet, Michael. It was interesting. They were gathered on a two- or three-minute Zoom call. This was well over 100 career people who work at the National Security Council but actually are detailed from the State Department, the Pentagon, the CIA. And they were told, go home. Don't call us. We'll call you. Don't go on your email. Don't do any work.

And we're going to tell you whether you still have your job. And they all have the sense that their social media is being examined, that people are being interviewed to hear. Have you ever heard them say something critical of Donald Trump?

And we're going to tell you whether you still have your job. And they all have the sense that their social media is being examined, that people are being interviewed to hear. Have you ever heard them say something critical of Donald Trump?

Well, I think there are three things going on. I don't think it's too delicate a phrasing at all. First of all, this is part of the completion of his rewriting of the history of January 6th, right? If his argument was it was a day of love, then there was really nothing to convict them for.

Well, I think there are three things going on. I don't think it's too delicate a phrasing at all. First of all, this is part of the completion of his rewriting of the history of January 6th, right? If his argument was it was a day of love, then there was really nothing to convict them for.

And he never actually, in talking about it, did the balancing test between these acts of sedition that the most serious of the cases were charged with or the attacks on the police. He simply said, well, they've served a lot of time in jail. Well, They've served a fraction of their sentences. So that's the first. The second is the symbolism of doing this in the opening days of a new presidency.

And he never actually, in talking about it, did the balancing test between these acts of sedition that the most serious of the cases were charged with or the attacks on the police. He simply said, well, they've served a lot of time in jail. Well, They've served a fraction of their sentences. So that's the first. The second is the symbolism of doing this in the opening days of a new presidency.

Usually presidents wait till the end of the year, Christmas, or the end of their term. The final hours, yeah. This was highly unusual to have these pardons happen at the beginning. Right. And to those who are most suspicious of President Trump's motives, they think that he wants an outside president

Usually presidents wait till the end of the year, Christmas, or the end of their term. The final hours, yeah. This was highly unusual to have these pardons happen at the beginning. Right. And to those who are most suspicious of President Trump's motives, they think that he wants an outside president

group, militia, defenders, whatever you would call them, who are now free to go defend his interests out there and who now know that they can be pardoned.

group, militia, defenders, whatever you would call them, who are now free to go defend his interests out there and who now know that they can be pardoned.

And may feel particularly loyal to him Because he let them out of jail in the opening days of his administration and believe, whether they are right or wrong, that that gives them freedom to go defend him in any way that they see necessary.

And may feel particularly loyal to him Because he let them out of jail in the opening days of his administration and believe, whether they are right or wrong, that that gives them freedom to go defend him in any way that they see necessary.

Nice to have you. Well, I'm down the street in Palm Beach. But yes, we've been in and out of Mar-a-Lago a few times.

Nice to have you. Well, I'm down the street in Palm Beach. But yes, we've been in and out of Mar-a-Lago a few times.

Well, for Trump to begin with, just the concept, as Maggie said, of being inaugurated in roughly 10 days as a felon is something that I think he would probably not want to see on his Wikipedia page, right? And it will fit into... the entire grievance argument that President-elect Trump has made that these prosecutions have been entirely political.

Well, for Trump to begin with, just the concept, as Maggie said, of being inaugurated in roughly 10 days as a felon is something that I think he would probably not want to see on his Wikipedia page, right? And it will fit into... the entire grievance argument that President-elect Trump has made that these prosecutions have been entirely political.

And you've heard him make those arguments as recently as earlier this week at his press conference. But more importantly for the institution itself, it then would raise the fundamental question of how somebody could be convicted as a felon and then, quite constitutionally, quite legally, elected as president.

And you've heard him make those arguments as recently as earlier this week at his press conference. But more importantly for the institution itself, it then would raise the fundamental question of how somebody could be convicted as a felon and then, quite constitutionally, quite legally, elected as president.