Dave Bernad
Appearances
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Wow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Came out last year. Superstore. Superstore. Very successful. White House Plumbers, Woody Harrelson, Justin Theroux, underappreciated series. Bad Trip on Netflix, Eric Andre, Tiffany Haddish movie. Right. Seven Days in Hell, Andy Samberg, sports mockumentary on HBO.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
No. I was 14, grew up in Washington, D.C., walking through a mall. come across a movie set, classic movie, first kid, Sinbad. I somehow... Was that a movie?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's Sinbad as a secret surface agent. The first kid gets kidnapped and Sinbad rescues him. It's a great movie. Wow. That sounds great. Great movie. And I smooth talked my way past the PAs and I met Sinbad, met the director. I was sitting in these chairs. I sat in the director chairs. And I'm like, this is what I want to do when I grow up. So I started in the mailroom at UTA and kind of hustled.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. I was like very obsessed with starting at the bottom. I'm like, what's the lowest level I can start at?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. I always think of myself as I'm the Bronnie James of producers. It's really, it's how I view myself. And I started off in the mailroom and I will, that's where I read my first Bill Simmons column. I think I had a friend of mine at UTA who was in the mailroom with me who kept telling people that he had signed you. Ryan Hayden at UTA. And we were like, wow, you signed Bill Simmons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We were like 23. That's true. Because I was a huge Paradise Hotel fan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And you would write about Paradise Hotel and the Celtics, obviously, in sports. And I was obsessed with your columns. And I met Mike White when I worked at UTA. And that was 20 years ago. And so we've been working together ever since. And then Mike and I had a company together. I then at one point he came to me and he's like, I'm wasting your energy. You're way too ambitious for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Just go start your own company. You can always work with me, but you're too ambitious for me. So I started my own company and, and yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, I was his assistant. And this is right around when like Funnier Diet started and all these digital websites.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yes. And I started producing digital shorts and I would do, I did a lot of the first Funnier Diet videos. I did this because I was obsessed with the hills. Mike and I were both obsessed with the hills. Who wasn't? One of the best shows ever made, honestly. And we did a spoof of The Hills with James Franco and Mila Kunis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that's the first thing I ever produced was basically I sat in an office and I transcribed two Audrina, Justin Bobby scenes. Wow. James Franco played Justin Bobby. I remember this, actually. That's the first thing I ever produced. And I drove around West Hollywood looking for a bar to let us shoot at it. And not Delilah's. It was a bar called...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It was a bar on Santa Monica Boulevard, and they let me shoot there for free. And everyone showed up. And yeah, that was the first thing I produced. And then I was just hustling. I was always really ambitious as an assistant. And at one point, Mike came to me as his assistant. He goes, I just got a show picked up at HBO called Enlightened, the pilot. And he's like, do you want to produce it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I was his assistant. I was like, yeah. So Laura Dern, Laura Dern, I was like 27, 28. And I would show up to these rooms, Mike Lombardo and Sue Nagel and Laura Dern. And I didn't realize how young I was at the time. I just was like, yeah, I deserve to be here for whatever reason. And they were probably looking at me like, who is this? Who's this kid that's in the room?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I produced the show and yeah, I was the one only producer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
That's how it got going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's embarrassing how many people say it really is embarrassing. But I play basketball. My high school basketball coach, Mike Hibbs in D.C., who coached at the MAFA, one of the most famous high school basketball programs in the country. So I was the glue guy. I was the guy taking charge. I was the Kurt Rambis of my team. And that's how I view producing. Really, I'm the glue guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We're having trouble closing the production designer's deal. I will step in and close the deal. Casting, locations, deal with the network, deal with notes, deal with release date, deal with marketing. You know, I think the best producers know where there's kind of an issue and they step in and they kind of, you know, take over an issue or prevent issues from coming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But, you know, on a day to day level, I can't tell you what my day will be. Just things will present themselves. And again, I think the best producers can kind of put their ego aside and step in and handle any situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I would take that. Yeah. But I like to think of myself more like an Austin Reeves guy. Like if I need to, like Jury Duty, for example, was an idea that kind of I originated with another producer, Todd Schulman. And we were kind of figuring out how could we... Todd worked with Sasha and I worked with Eric Andre, did Bad Trip. And we're like, how can we take what we did and put that in TV?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And we came up with this idea of jury duty. We hired the writers and kind of originated it and was really creative, was really the engine creatively. And then on something like White Lotus, Mike White is a genius. That's Mike White's creative vision. And my role in that is really kind of to be there by his side and do whatever Mike needs me to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So I, you know, like to think I can go, I can do both things. Like I can originate things creatively, like jury duty or White House plumbers is something I originated. Or if it's something like Superstore or White Lotus, I can step in with a creator and kind of help them get their vision made and hopefully make it as, you know, as good as it can be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I have trouble saying no. I have trouble with boundaries.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I haven't, you know, it's a good question. I haven't found the answer to that yet. But, you know, the problem with our business is you never know what's going to get made, what's not going to get made and why it gets made. And that's kind of part of the White Lotus story.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Which I'll get into. But so I'm a... I maybe have too many projects, but again, you just never know what's going to actually come to fruition. And producers only get paid in success. So you have to have a lot going to make a living.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Just closed a deal this morning that took eight months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And why it took eight months? It could have taken two weeks. If people just got on the phone and go, here are the issues. That's right. Eight months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So couldn't tell you why eight months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, I wouldn't against the White Lotus story that actually proves it could be a week. It could be a week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yes, it is an anomaly. It usually takes four to eight months to get a deal done.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Then the studio network will sit on it. Mike turned in lights in on a Friday. That's the first show I produced. They greenlit it on a Monday. And I was like, oh, this business is super easy. This is how it works.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Exactly, yeah. And I'm like, oh, this is easy. And that is the anomaly. It usually can take a month, two months, three months for... a studio network to read something, do the internal economics, budget it, and then- So-and-so's on vacation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, June, July. It's June, July for whatever reason. It's when kids are out of school, vacation. It's August. August is Toronto. There's a bunch of stuff in August.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
September is Cannes, South by, whatever it is. So then it's October. So things take so much longer than you think it's going to take.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then you, and then you, at some point you go, wait, what are we making? Why are we making this? And you kind of, you hope after a year and a half, you're still excited about the idea you sold. And the idea still makes sense and are still relevant. We're still viable because that's part of the problem. Like culture shifts. Things happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Things that were interesting a year and a half ago aren't interesting anymore. White House plumbers was an idea. My dad's from Hungary. He's an immigrant. He ended up in D.C., a doctor. He would call me with this idea for, I'm not exaggerating, five years he called me. And I would go to Whole Foods on Santa Monica and I'd like fill up my food after work. And he just would, he pitched me this idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I put him on mute. I wouldn't listen. And finally to get him to shut up, I'm like, okay, I'll come to DC. I'll meet this guy who has some interesting story. Because everyone has an interesting story, right? So I was on my way to Montreal to shoot something else. I literally land, I left the airport. I gave myself like two hours.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
When I met this guy and he tells me the story of the White House plumbers. And this is probably 2016. And I leave the hospital. The guy was in the hospital. And I was like, this is an incredible story. My dad was right. I fly to Montreal. I think about it for a year. I finally start meeting with writers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And it's funny. It actually comes back to White Lotus season three, which is I'm on a flight. I see this movie, Death of Stalin. which is an incredible movie, Armando Iannucci. And I'm like, oh my God, this is a, because the story of the White House plumbers and Nixon Watergate is a comedy. It's tragic, you know, comedy. And so I'm like, oh, this would be so funny in this tone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then I saw Jason Isaacs and I was like, Jason Isaacs is brilliant. And that comes back later in White Lotus, but- Jerry West? Jason Isaacs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But this is 2016, right? So then White House plumbers, I pitch it to writers. We pitch it to Woody Harrelson. Signs on. Pitch it to Justin Theroux. Signs on. We sell it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, yeah. Because you're like, once you get the first person on, it's easier to get the second. You're like, oh yeah, Woody's coming to this party.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
and he vetted the whole once we had him it made it made the next like five people easy but we had to get him to get it going by the way i think i'm like oh for 70 with my 30 for 30 pitches at some point just such as i don't control it anymore but um so then so this is 2019 we sell to hbo they're like we're making this covet happens it's pushed 21 2021 2022 and then all of a sudden an idea that has never been made
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
In 40 years, I get a call. Oh, you know, there's a Julia Roberts, Sean Penn project called Gaslit that's getting shot the exact same time I'm shooting White House plumbers, which is the exact same story. And so this idea I've been thinking about for six years, which has never existed, All of a sudden, my show comes out two months after the exact same show, which is something I can't control.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So then at that point, it's like, oh, we're the second Watergate show about G. Gordon Leedy and Howard Hunt. And that's just the difficulty of producing. It's like, that's something that's so out of my control. You put all this energy into something. And then by the time my show comes out, it's kind of an afterthought. Oh, we've already seen that show. Saw it on Starz.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. Oh yeah. I have several that, that like kind of slipped through my fingers and you kind of think about those for years. And I have probably two of those that I'm like, if I just moved a little quicker or just put a little bit more energy into this or, you know, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
What happens is people get busy. And if you miss a window with people, then they're off doing other things. And I had a show that had three... elements that then went off to become massive stars, but I had them before their thing. And it was in the world of music, which is a world I love and been trying to figure out a show or movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And, and it just was like about to come together and someone hesitated and And I didn't push. And then all three of those elements have gone off to become big stars. So you can't get the band back together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
That's it. Literally, it's exactly it. And I just hesitated. I probably put my energy towards the wrong thing, and then it went away.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. We have a mutual friend. I'm not going to name him. When you start getting certain invites to things, you're like... Things must be going well. We're getting those invites.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, I mean, I think like it's a momentum business. I think people love to chase momentum and, and as you kind of start to build momentum becomes slightly easier, but not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's never totally easy. It's always hard because you always have to have the right idea at the right time, the right configuration of elements. And that momentum makes it easier to get your calls returned or get people attached because But you still, it always comes down to the writer. It always comes back to that. And yeah, but yeah, but yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I'm going through that right now. I had a project that we had like nine bidders on. sold it to a studio movie and now to Paramount. And now we're going through, like, could you have predicted to, no, this is probably three years ago now that the entire company would be turned over and, you know, going through this merger. And so, but yeah, I mean, that's really it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like, or the star of your movie is going through a divorce and you don't, you know, there's so many elements that kind of come in to making things on set. And they're not focused. And you're in production. You have the perfect script, the perfect director, but the star is distracted. So they're not giving them the right performance. But I learned my lesson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So I did this movie with Sidney Sweeney, Immaculate. And basically, Euphoria was starting. This is 2023. And they're like, Euphoria is starting February 19th. And you have a moment, you're like, okay, we have a six-week window with Sydney. The script's not ready. Do we try to rush it into production or do we wait till after Euphoria? And I'm like, I'm not waiting because after Euphoria, who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And by the way, so we rush into production and I'm very proud of the movie. I think the movie turned out great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But then Euphoria doesn't get shot for two more years. So I was talking about this with Sydney yesterday. I'm like, now they're finally back into production two years later. But we rushed into this thing and she killed herself. She worked six to eight weeks. Then she goes to do the movie with Glenn Powell, works six to eight weeks to get it in before Euphoria.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then Euphoria doesn't happen for two years. But I learned my lesson. I'm never going to just wait. You have to like, when it's, you know, it's a bird in the hand. You got to take it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Exactly. Do you replace them? And I think it's an imperfect science, Hollywood. On the rewatchables, you're watching these movies, and it's funny. People are like, it's so obviously bad, or how do they make such a bad movie? And I think, you know, having made things that aren't as good as they probably should be, I think there's a great quote from Project Runway. And I always think about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's from like the first couple seasons where Tim Gunn is like, when you're in the monkey house for too long, you stop smelling the shit. And sometimes you're just like... That's great. You're just getting in it. And I think about it all the time. And you're like, you're in it. And it's like, you're so deep inside of it, you're not seeing what feels obvious from the outside.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And so you can watch a movie 10 years later and go, why didn't they realize the third act didn't work? Or this is such bad casting. But sometimes you're so deep inside of it, you stop seeing the shit. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Because what I mean, Mike and I talk about all the time, there's three producers on White Lotus. There's Mike, there's me, and there's Mark Kamine, who's our line producer. And what happens is, you know, the star of the show has a manager. So that manager is a producer. The star is a producer. It's based on a piece of IP. That IP has a producer attached. The writer of that piece of IP is attached.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
They bring it to a non-writing producer who has a deal at X network or studio. There's two people that work at that company. So all of a sudden you're on notes calls with seven people. Right. And like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yes, and that's probably not going to turn out well. Then you have seven people who have seven ideas, who have seven interpretations of what good is, and all of a sudden you have a writer who's trying to service seven different people. It's never going to end up well. And all the things I've done that have been successful all have one clear vision, and you're all in service of that clear vision.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I think when there's too many egos and too many people weighing in, it just weighs everything down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that's kind of my role with Mike on White Lotus, but also that's a role that I try to service in every production I do, which is trying to kind of push on bad notes and trying to help creators, writers, directors filter opinions. What do I think, in my own taste, what do I think is a good idea? What do I think is a bad idea? And I think that's really...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
A thousand percent. And what is a marginal move? Because it's all taste, right? Producing is all taste. It all comes down to opinion. And what's a lateral move that you can give to a network or studio or whomever to then buy back later on? Right. Oh, we have a great...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I just remember a great story from Enlightened where the network was hammering us on this one episode, and there was a piece of dialogue that Mike just loved. It was so lateral. Whether it was in or not didn't really matter. For some reason, HBO was hammering us. And we sent them back a cut with a taken out to make them feel good about it. But then we were like, we're going to deliver the line in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So we pretended that we had taken it out. We deliver it with the line in. And then they didn't notice, of course, because they're probably doing eight different things. They're giving notes. And then we go to the premiere and the network, HBO was like, you know, we should premiere that episode. And it was the episode that we had switched out the dialogue.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So we're like, holy shit, they're gonna notice in the premiere. And so we played it and Mike and I are sitting next to all the HBO executives who had given us those notes and they never noticed, they didn't remember. And then we sent them all t-shirts after the premiere with the line of dialogue. And then by the way, they were like, what does that mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
They had no, they have no memory of it, but it's, that's a good example. It's like, you're getting these notes from people and they're like, it's a Monday morning for them. Tuesday morning, they probably forgot what they said. And ultimately you got to trust your creative instincts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And, and by that episode, one of our best episodes we ever did in that line that we took out, I swear is so often quoted from Enlightened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Always.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Or you have like 19 people on the Zoom, right? And every person is like, if I don't say something, I feel like I'm a loser. So then everyone has to weigh in with something that is like, Yeah, just to weigh in. And I've been in those positions where you're on these Zooms and you don't really have anything to add, but you feel like you have to. Otherwise, you look like a total loser.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I mean, the reality is White Lotus happened because of a confluence of events that could never be replicated. Right. And I give HBO immense credit for trusting Mike. And I mean, it's funny. It's like, it's kind of feels like a, one of those bands and you're like, Oh, you're a one hit wonder, like over overnight success. And you've been grinding for 15 years to make it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And so Mike first pitched me a version of white Lotus, probably 2008. We were in Spain together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We were walking in Tarifa, Spain. I'll never forget it. And he pitches me. We're just walking. And we were there. Paramount was paying Mike to write School of Rock 2. And Mike was like, I don't want to. And I was working. I was Mike's assistant. He's like, I don't want to be in LA. Why don't we just go to Spain? I'll write it. You can do whatever you want. And I'll just sit and write.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And you can live in Spain. I'm like, I'm single. I'm in my 20s. Sounds amazing. So we went off to Spain. We were just walking one day and he pitches him this idea about a hotel show, upstairs, downstairs hotel show. And the central relationship is a couple that's on a honeymoon. And one is rich, one is marrying into money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And the show kind of starts with the groom returning and the bride is not there and you don't know what's happened. And I'm like, that's incredible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And so we go in and then it's also an anthology series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So we go into HBO, we pitched idea and the feedback was anthology series are not a thing. It'll never be a thing. Not interested.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Because at that point, it really hadn't been a thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
This was before True Detective. So True Detective was really the thing that I think broke open anthology series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. And I get from their perspective, it's like you're going to start a show. The hardest thing is a pilot, right? Like getting people engaged and interested in characters. Yeah. And then to replicate that every season is really hard and get people re-engaged. It's almost impossible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's incredible. Well, the star of White Lotus is Mike White. He's the star. And so HBO passes and it's an idea just kind of sitting out there. One of the executives at HBO who heard it then goes to Amazon and kind of goes, oh, what was that honeymoon idea? You know, blah, blah, blah. Why don't we try and do that here? So Mike goes, great. We go. We talk to them about this honeymoon show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And at that point, it was a show about this couple that's traveling from... And I think Mike was kind of inspired. He'd gone on a trip. And Phil Jackson was actually... It was actually Phil Jackson who inspired it. The Zen Master? Yes. Mike and Mike is not, Mike is not a sports guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
He was, I can't remember which country he was in, but he went from like, you know, this great hotel to that great hotel to another great hotel within the same country. And Phil Jackson was on the same, he was like, oh, we must have the same, you know, travel agent who had booked us into the same exact hotels. So Mike kept seeing him at every hotel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So he was like, okay, this honeymoon couple, basically he's going to travel to different hotels and he's going to, they're going to see the same couples or same people to the same travel agent. So we go and Mike is in Sri Lanka. He's working on this honeymoon show when everyone at Amazon gets fired. And then they replace... Roy Price, who was running Amazon at the time, with another executive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that executive just didn't get the show. The show dies.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So that's 2015, 2016. Oh, my God. 2019 comes. We had met Jennifer Coolidge in 2006 doing a movie called Gentleman Broncos. great movie, underappreciated, Fox Searchlight movie with Jared Hess. And Mike and I, I'll never forget it. We go in, we didn't know Jennifer at the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We go in to have dinner and we see Jennifer at the same restaurant and she's literally sitting at this restaurant and she has her menu this close to her face. She's staring at the menu. And we're looking at her across the restaurant. We're like, who is this person? And she is, Jennifer has terrible eyesight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
The only way she could read the menu is, I'm not joking, literally it's this close to her face. And she's just shamelessly reading the menu like this. And we just kind of fell in love with her. And we became great friends, the three of us. And Mike was always inspired about writing a show for her. So 2019 comes and she... Mike has this idea for a show called St. Patsy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And he writes four episodes of the show. And we go out in 2019. We pitch the show called St. Patsy, which was about Jennifer Coolidge...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
playing a version of tanya mcquad version of like a celebrity actress who's going to and accept an award in sri lanka and there's a murder mystery everyone passes everyone passes and we're basically told you know jennifer's not a tv star whatever it is so now we have the honeymoon show Mike was thinking about. We have the couple murder mystery show. We have Jennifer in Sri Lanka.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So those three elements we have kind of simmering.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Exactly. Classic. He's an underdog, really. And he was, everyone looked at him, oh, he's brilliant, but not commercial.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And Mike and I had been working together at this point for 15 years. We'd made a lot of amazing stuff together. But nothing had really broken through yet. 2020 comes. Mike writes this great script that was set in Sweden. That was a road trip comedy with him and Aubrey Plaza that Mike was going to star in with Aubrey. Wow. And we get the financing. COVID happens. Financing falls apart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's July of 2020. Mike is like despondent. He goes on a road trip by himself. I go on a road trip to Colorado and HBO calls out of the blue. It's July of 2020 and they go, um, we don't have any programming. Is there anything that is COVID? Yeah. COVID by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Is there anything you can do in a COVID bubble that you can do quickly, cheaply that can be on the air in 2021? It was over email. And Mike goes, yeah, I got it. And they go, great, it's greenlit. Just like that. And Mike literally didn't know what it was, but he had been thinking about these three different shows over the last 15 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And he combined all those elements and that became White Lotus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And it's a honeymoon show. It's a show that was in Sri Lanka.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. And I'll never forget. It was like, it was probably August of 2020. We get on a phone call with HBO and they're like, you have 30 days to make this. Good luck. And Mike's like, I'm not going to, I'm not going. And this point also, we had two weeks to find a location. What people don't know is originally we were going to do it in Australia.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And basically we found a hotel in Australia, but we couldn't get our COVID vaccines, vaccinations, visas in time. So we basically were like, we pivoted to Hawaii because it was the one place that we could get in. And God bless Four Seasons Maui. It's the only hotel in the world that said, yeah, come shoot this during COVID.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Great career move. And Mike was like, I'm not going to Hawaii. I'm shooting this in 30 days. There's no way I'm doing a season in 30 days. And I said to him, I go, this is what we're going to do. I've never said this and nature doesn't know this. I go, we're going to show up in Hawaii. We're going to get them pregnant, as they say in Hollywood. We're going to get them invested.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
They're going to spend enough money that we're going to go, actually, we need another $15 million to make the show. And he said to me, he goes, if you're wrong about this, I'll kill you. This is what he said to me. I will kill you. That's going to be season two. Exactly. And so we went to Hawaii. Mike had one script. And he didn't even know what the ending was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Mike wrote the scripts without knowing where it was going. Because we got there in September of 2020. we had to shoot by the end of October. We had basically six weeks for Mike to write the season, cast the season, hire a crew, scout it, and shoot it. Because we had to be done by Christmas to get it on the air, 2021. And we arrived and Mike just started writing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We were in a 14-day quarantine and Mike wrote almost the entire season in those 14 days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, basically. And it just kind of poured out of him. But it was really, he had been thinking about the show for 15 years. It had been really those elements of things he'd thought about. And I remember we got to a point where we had 30 days to shoot it. We needed 48 days. And I had to call HBO and go, hey, we're 18 days over budget. It's a lot of money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And to their credit, they go, we'll give it to you. Just go and do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And as I had told you, like strategically, they had spent enough money where I knew it was like a sunk cost or like, okay, we got to give this money to get something out of it. And, you know, I think that was the hardest production process I've ever been through because in Hawaii, at that point, if you got COVID, you go into a hotel room for 14 days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So during that production, we had so many people get COVID. And that was also a point where if you were close to that person, you go get COVID. So we had actors getting COVID that would go away for 14 days. And we would have to rejuggle the schedule. We would have to shoot seven days. We had to do everything humanly possible. And another thing people don't know is we actually never finished.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It was two days before we wrapped. And I was like, okay, we're going to make it through. I get a phone call from HBO that someone has tested positive for COVID. And it was Jennifer Coolidge's assistant who was basically in the room with her every single day. And we were out shooting that famous boat scene where Jennifer's dumping the ashes. She's crying. And I had to call the boat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I wasn't on the boat. I had to call them. the AD and go, Jennifer, basically it's like a close contact. You need to come back. And Jennifer's going to go into a hotel room 14 days. We're gonna have to shut down right before Christmas. And they turned the boats around and I'll never forget Jennifer's face coming off the boat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It was heartbreaking because she knew she was going to have to miss Christmas and New Year's and basically be stuck in a hotel room. And we shut down and never finished. And we basically, which was a gift because then Mike goes and edits the show. And we eventually found like a five-day window in February the next year to bring everyone back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And at that point too, we knew what we were kind of missing. We did some reshoots. Oh. And it was like a gift. Honestly, at that point, it was like the worst thing that could happen. And it ended up being a gift. We got everyone back somehow. And the rest is history.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, Meredith Tucker, who's our casting director, Mike and Meredith went to Wesleyan together. So they're old friends. She's worked. She's amazing. And we have a great, we worked, we've all worked together now for a long time, but it was so quick that we had to cast people we know. And, you know, for me, like Sydney Sweeney,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I met her in 2019, and I had only seen her in Euphoria, and it's a really specific character. And she comes in, and she actually pitches me a TV show that I passed on, which I regret. And I met her in this meeting, and I was like, holy shit, she's so different from her character. You meet her in person, and I think people don't understand how good of an actress she is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Because if you meet her in person, you go, every character she's playing is so different from who she is. And so we were casting apart and it was against type, right? Because at that point, she'd only played this character in Euphoria who was very dramatic, not funny. I meet her in this meeting. She's so bubbly. She's so personable. She's so funny in person. And I'm like, she would be so...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
smart in that role because it's unexpected and so that's kind of how that happened connie britain was someone that we were friends with um and mike knew for a long time i could work with her before we knew she'd be perfect steve zahn was mike's brilliant idea that he kind of pulled that out of nowhere we were we were having trouble casting apart and he's like what about steve zahn brilliant marie bartlett we weren't familiar with and that's mike's brilliance like he he
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Murray Bartlett auditioned and out of a hundred people, he kind of identified Murray. He just saw it. It would be great. And Alex Adario came in the first second we saw her audition. She like just nailed it. She was amazing. Jake Lacey, same thing audition. We had to do these things really fast. Natasha Rothwell. It's like actually a great example of I'm really close to Natasha's agent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I wasn't familiar with Natasha. Uh, Shauna, her agent called me and was like, just hammering me, hammering me, send me some stuff. And Natasha was like, oh, she's, she's brilliant. She won't audition. And we're just like, fuck it. Let's just go. Like that was like, just like we had to pull the trigger. She ended up being brilliant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And so it was really like a combination of people we knew in just quick decisions. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Not only that, but the budgets of White Lotus season one are minuscule compared to some of their other dramas. We were also like, this could just never air. At that point, it was like a COVID experiment. They gave us a bunch of money to go shoot a show in a bubble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But it really was. This show never happens if not for COVID, honestly, in the COVID bubble. Oh, thank you, COVID. Thank you, COVID.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But yeah, I think that if you had told me then, and Mike and I were talking about this the other day, if you had told me five years later, I would be in Bangkok, like at a Marvel-sized premiere, and they're like, we're walking out in front of 5,000 people yelling our names, I would tell you that's impossible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. I knew, you know, because the show was so different, right? It's so out there. And it's really just... you know, it's a lot of conversations around a table and it's, it's, there's not a lot of plot until episode five and then that robbery happens. Nothing really happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And just being completely honest, we didn't think the murder mystery element would be a thing. And we were cutting the pilot and we got a note actually about like, because in the pilot episode, you introduced this idea, Jake Lace is there talking about the dead body. And we got a note, like maybe bring that back at the end to call it back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I remember we were talking about like, well, people aren't going to really care about the murder mystery. So calling it back would kind of feel, it's not really about that. And so it was just like a creative thing that happened and people kind of latched onto it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And for me, it was really exciting because it was a way into what was ultimately a story about existential ideas and being a human and just complexity of life. And I knew, I made the show and I also haven't, I've never talked about this, but I went to show three friends of mine. And they were the first people I showed the show to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I showed them a locked version of the pilot that had temp music. And my friends were like, and they're three, they're filmmaker friends. I trust them. And they look at me, they go, this show's not good. And then I go, there's not good. I go, what do you mean? They're like, yeah, this is not a good show. They're like, what are you going to do?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
What, you know, I'm like, and I left, I was kind of disheartened. And one of my friends called me. And he's definitely going to listen to this interview. He knows who he is. And he's like, the show's really not good. It's not a good show. And I don't know. And I'm just like, I didn't really listen to him. And then the only thing that changed was the music.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that's the show we kind of locked and that aired. And I still make fun of my friends, obviously, to this day about it. But... I knew the show was going to work when we would show people, agents first, like agents of clients. And they would call me and they go, give me the next one. I need the next episode. I was like, okay, I'll see you next time. And they're like, give me the next episode.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I need the next episode.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And at that point I was like, oh, there's something here that people are kind of hooking into. Yeah. And, you know, we could never have predicted it would be a success and let alone we could do three seasons and, you know, fourth season and feel very fortunate that HBO trusted us. And they just trusted in Mike and there was no notes in the creative process because there was no time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
They just said, go make it. And we went off and made something and brought it back to them. And Casey and Frannie and Nora Skinner at HBO, they'd just known us for a long time. And they deserve great credit for just trusting in the creative process.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
i think the response to the show and i think we just had fun and you know the show really comes out of mike's passion for travel you know he was on amazing race did you see he just loves to travel was he a survivor too yeah he was right yeah yeah i mean so much of the show is survivor i was gonna ask you about that yeah it does feel like survivor and white lotus are are not even cousins they might be siblings
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, there's a great story of how Mike ended up on... Well, I mean, originally Mike and I applied to CBS for Amazing Race. We were wearing matching blue velour jumpsuits. We shot a stupid video running around Brentwood. I drove down to El Segundo. I dropped it in a box because Mike and I both loved the show and I was Mike's assistant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And we had this idea of like, it would be funny if we went on the show together. CBS called two weeks later. And they recast me. They're like, your dynamic is too Hollywood. We don't really like the dynamic. And eventually Mike ended up with his dad going on Amazing Race. But it was through that experience he ended up on Survivor because he's like, Mike is really competitive in a great way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I think he just like, he didn't win Amazing Race. And she's like, I'm going to win Survivor. But I think at the end of season one, we just had such a great experience making the show. And like I was saying before, Mike is really the star of White Lotus. And I think the anthology dynamic allows Mike to be the star and allow us not to be beholden to anyone else's schedule.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And it's all on Mike and the writing. And Casey came to us, to Casey's credit, and said, I want to make anything you want to make next. And Mike said, let's do season two of White Lotus. And they greenlit it without hearing Mike's idea. Again, full trust. They didn't know location? We didn't know location. I mean... I get asked all the time of the locations. The location process is really organic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, yeah. No, I mean, yes. Easier to find places that give us hotels.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But it was still hard. It was actually... I thought we were going to shoot in France. And we went to Italy as a courtesy to HBO because it was an other country that had a great rebate, better rebate than France. We go and we basically saw these crazy heads everywhere in Sicily and Palermo. And this guy told us the story of what these heads meant, the Tessa de Moros.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And they tell us a story about this guy who was having an affair and the woman chopped his head off. And Mike kind of got inspired by this idea of doing a show about sexual jealousy. And Sicily ended up being the perfect place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You and I sell that. But I mean, season three is- It's like a Shannon Tweed, but now in 2025. Just go with us. But I mean, season three was actually amazing. We were going to shoot in Japan and we went to Thailand as a courtesy to HBO. It's the only other country in Southeast Asia that had a rebate that was like film friendly. And we were in Chiang Mai in the North and Mike got bronchitis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
he went to the hospital and the nurses there took such great care of him and he kind of fell in love with thailand and he they put him on this thing called a nebulizer And it's this really strong steroid. And he was up for two nights and he hallucinated. And he hallucinated season three of White Lotus. And he gets in the van the next day and he pitches me what he hallucinated.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that's what we shot. What? Yeah. And we were like, we're shooting in Thailand. So by the time we left Thailand, we went to Japan. We knew we were shooting in Thailand. And Thailand itself is like such a witchy place. Yeah. And you were there for how many months? Like almost a year. Jesus. But I love it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I thought my dad, dear, I don't remember this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
we had like a 5 a.m zoom because it's the only time that worked for all of our yeah and the first time we ever met and and i woke up to like a message that my dad was in the hospital i don't remember this and i get on the zoom we were meeting for the first time and like i said i'm i'm a huge fan of yours and i was so excited to meet you so i didn't want to cancel our zoom yeah and i just woken up like three minutes before a zoom and i get on and i'm like um i'm like really shaken
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And you're like, we can reschedule. Yeah. Deal with your dad. My dad was okay. But yeah, I mean, I think that was a tough year for all of us. Just like the time zones and being away from family. Mosquitoes? And the mosquitoes were insane. We all got dengue shots. And a couple people got dengue. At that point, you're like, it's a crapshoot. you know, do you, will you get dengue?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Will you end up in the hospital? Like I would, I would go to work. Like I was like, yeah, in the 1980s Lakers, like I would have socks up to my knees. I don't like, like, like, like Michael Cooper. Exactly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So that was coming. But yeah, I've been watching sports with the hardest because I'm a diehard Lakers fan. I would be on set. And this is this is like the build up to the playoffs were like Nuggets series. And I would I didn't miss a Lakers game. I had the VPN. I got the ticket. I watched every single Lakers game on set.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Season playoffs. And I would be at the monitors. And I'm a really vocal fan. So I'm there and like, you know, watching the Nuggets series, Joker's hitting like these fucking ridiculous shots over his head, three pointers fall, you know, falling out of bounds. And I'm like yelling on set.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I'm not joking. Literally, if you ask any actor from White Lotus season three about this, like I'm literally- Dave's a maniac? Oh yeah. I'm at the monitors with my iPad watching what's shooting, watching both at the same time, yelling uncontrollably at Jamal Murray, who I fucking hate, as the Lakers kind of blow that series. They should have won that series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But yeah, sports, I would wake up at all crazy hours. Wouldn't miss the Lakers game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Wild card. Yeah. Hawaii was the hardest just because of COVID. And like, yeah. Also like you didn't know what COVID was at that point. Like how dangerous it was. And I'm a producer. I'm not like an epidemiologist.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And people are looking at you like, oh, you're a producer. You should have the cure for COVID or no, you know. So like people are coming to me for COVID advice. Like, Plus producing advice. So it was a very tough spot to be in. And in season three, where it kind of got more into a groove, just the elements of Thailand, the heat, mosquitoes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's the best season. I'm really excited for people to watch it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's really slowly paced. It really sucks. By the way, our dear friend Michael Lasker, who I love, he called me last night and he was like, yeah, I love the season. I'm on a text thread with people. They're talking about how slow it is. And I'm like, one, why are you telling me this? You know Lasker, you can't help him. Uncontrollably, you can't help him. He's got opinions. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But it's annoying to hear people go, oh, it's so slow because each season is paced the same way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Cause you know, like I honestly, like I love, I love, I love you. I love the ringer. I love, I listen to all the reviews of the things I do. True. And so when you got, you texted me and you're like, Oh, I watched the first episode three times. I told Mike White that I'm like, Okay, people are going to like it. They'll watch it three times. It means something's going on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But I'm really excited for people to see where it goes because it is completely unexpected. It's a little demonic. That's what Mike and I talk about. It's the most demonic of all the seasons in the best way possible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that's what's exciting is the plot hasn't even really kicked in yet. So there's so much unexpected stuff to come.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I love the cast, like Patrick Schwarzenegger, Jason, Parker, the three women. Everyone is just great people. It was a really, really, really amazing experience.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Because ultimately it comes back to what we were saying before. Mike is a star.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And it's kind of like OKC. They have this culture that they built. I was talking about this with someone the other day, honestly, with Tommy, our mutual friend. OKC has built an incredible culture. around that team and people buy in. And that's kind of what we've tried to build with White Lotus, which is this is a show everyone- You don't think LeBron's built that kind of culture?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Why don't you use LeBron as an example? No comment. And I think it's like Mike is a star, it's Mike's show, and people are signing up and they're coming to do this show because they're believing in what we're making. And everyone is at MFN. Everyone's getting paid the same. Everyone has the same trailer. Everyone has the same exact status. And across the board, all of us,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And we're kind of... Everyone is choosing to be there because they want to make a great show. Not because of the money. Not because of anything else. And you kind of feel that on set. It's really... It's funny. I've... I was... Body language, Bill, is my favorite thing I've... And I was thinking about that as it relates to, like, actors in White Lotus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
In the casting process, you can kind of feel people's body language. Really? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Why they're there and, like, how hard they're fighting for those parts and... And it's funny, on set, I was thinking about body language says so much. I remember like, as I'm a dire Broncos fan, I remember going to see Jay Cutler play live. And I just remember he threw like a, you know, a pick in the end zone. And I remember his body language walking off the field. I'm like, oh, he fucking sucks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I remember when they traded, I was so happy. And like, that body language says so much about people. And I was thinking about that as it relates to this season. And this was a really hard show to make with the elements in Thailand. And people were so committed. And the body language and the energy every day was so good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I think that comes through in the show and it comes through in people's performances. And I think it comes through. And by the end of the season, I hope people agree with me. But yeah, I do think it's the best season we've done.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But also, this is the thing. Mike, I've been working with Mike for 20 years. Mike is authentically himself. And I think the key to being successful, I think, as a producer or a writer is knowing your strengths, knowing your weaknesses. Mike's weakness is being in a room with writers. And Mike's weakness for him, that's just not how he... approaches the creative process.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And he's not critical or judgmental of anyone else's process. But the thing, he had a mental break. The last time he ran a room, he had a mental breakdown and ended up in a mental hospital. And he talks about it a lot. And that was because of the process. For him, he just doesn't... he doesn't exist in that process.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. And of course he, what Mike is saying is anyone can do whatever they want. I just need to do my process. And he was like, I'm never returning to TV. And he returned to TV to do enlightened because HBO said to him, you don't need to have a writer's room. You can do it on your terms.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that's how I was able to do it. And so I think Mike, um, yeah, I mean, like what he does, I don't know how he does it. And he's again, like it's, he's a genius and,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
That or he has an Adderall addiction and he's going to go to rehab at some point in the next five years. I don't know how he does it. Or his body naturally produces Adderall. Exactly. There's something going on with him. But Mike is focused on one thing. He wants to do one thing really well. He doesn't want to spread himself thin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I think that all saying no, kind of what we were talking about at the beginning, is a superpower of his. He knows his limits. And he has to focus on one thing. And he pours, that's the thing that people don't realize. He pours every inch of his life into making White Lotus at the cost of personal friendships, family.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And he cares about every, we'll be in a mix in episode four of the season, you know, and he'll hear something and he will, he's so focused on the attention to details that nobody else is thinking about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, of course.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
By the way- Go to like Switzerland. Mike doesn't like the cold. That's why we'll never do it. So we'll never do it. I feel confident we'll never do a season in the cold. You're not going to do a ski season? He just, Mike's not built for, he's a California guy. He's not built for the cold. But never say never, but I would be surprised.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But yeah, I think part of the best part or one of the best parts of my job now is hotels are calling me because they're like, Mike, Mike says I get the runoff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But like, I'm telling you, every hotel is now offering to fly us to see the hotel. So I get Mike's runoff. Mike, they'll offer to Mike. Michael go. No. And I go, who's second. Okay. Let me go down the, down the call sheet. So I'll get the phone calls and there'll be like, we'll send a plane. We'll fly you to X city.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Honestly, it's like, that's the, that's, and I love to travel. So it's like, so now it's like, how do I say yes to all these things? And I think the next couple of months I'm going to, I'll be flying all over the country and looking at all over the world, looking at hotels.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that's kind of what I was saying about the Thailand story. I think there's a... First is the theme. Like, we knew season 3 wanted to kind of explore Eastern philosophy and kind of bigger existential religious ideas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And so we knew it had to be Asia. And we didn't really land on the series until we landed on Thailand. And I'm not exaggerating. Mike hallucinated the season. And so... it came very organically. Um, and so I think season four, we have, I know what the themes are. I won't talk about it, but so I know we have, so you know it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We have a general, we have a general concept and then we'll go scout, uh, cities that could make sense for that general concept. And I think the season will present itself once we land and see hotels.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Exactly. But it's funny though, because Mike, part of his genius as a writer, he's always paying attention. For example... You know, we were in Bangkok and I went and had drinks with someone. We were scouting. And this person was talking to me about these like bald guys who come to Thailand and they're like dating these young women. And she's like, yeah, we call them LBHs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. So I go in the van the next day and I'm like, so funny. I'm out with this girl. I was out. And she was talking about LBHs, losers back home. And I just kind of say it as a funny anecdote. Mike files that away, and then it pops up, episode one, the LBHs, and he's always paying attention, and he's always kind of... just like observing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And there's so many things that happen in the show that I'm like, I think maybe somehow I unintentionally or somebody in our group unintentionally inspired it. And whether he's making fun of us or, you know, unclear. So that's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Somehow some character will end up on a podcast. Me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So that's what I'm saying. He'll have a general concept. We'll go travel and then ideas will sprout and it'll kind of focus where we're headed and what he's writing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, did you see Luke, the video of Luca banging three? Like he took also break to go off and just start banging threes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. It's funny because no matter how successful I am in Hollywood, film, TV, meeting an athlete, any athlete is still the thrill of my life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So I love this idea as an excuse.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, I'll tell you a funny story, which is season one, my lowest, we're in Maui four seasons. Maybe you know this, maybe you don't, which is that is like the Lakers hotel. It's a lake. So I am a, it's like, if I had to, no, I'm never going there, but I'm going to say like magic Johnson is my idol. I like grew up writing letters to him when he retired. I bought, I was like inconsolable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like I had to, I think I skipped school. He is my hero. And if I had to liken myself really to a basketball player as a producer, it's Magic Johnson. Unselfish. Unselfish. So we are at the Four Seasons. And I think somehow we hear that Magic Johnson is staying at the hotel. And I tell Natasha Rothwell and I tell Jennifer Coolidge, oh my God, I mean, Magic Johnson is my little brother is there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And my little brother knows better than anyone, John, how much I love Magic Johnson. So they're like, you're going to meet Magic Johnson. And I'm like, I don't know. And like, I'm walking to the hotel. I see him with Cookie. They're walking to the lobby and I freeze up. Like I can't do it. The next day I'm on set and I get a call from Jennifer Coolidge and she goes,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You know, Magic just left the hotel. He tipped everyone. The staff love him. They just told us he's leaving. They're like, you need to come down here. Come to the lobby. You're going to meet Magic Johnson. And I'm wearing, like, all the COVID mask. And, like, I have long hair because we haven't gotten our hair cut. I run down the lobby. I'm just sitting in the lobby now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I'm like, this is my one moment to meet Magic Johnson. And there comes Magic Johnson with Cookie. And he's with the manager who I've gotten to know. And so I go up and I introduce myself, and I'm now the 11-year-old version of myself. And I'm like, oh, great to meet you, Magic. I love you so much. And I'm a producer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I basically tell him how much he's changed my life and how much he means to me. And I'm just like a moron. And he goes, wait, he's like, wait a second. I'm like, who are you? What do you do? And I basically tell him, I'm like, I'm producing a show, White Lotus. And at this point, No one knows what Lotus is, you know? And I basically tell him how much he means to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And he's like, do you want to take a photo? I take a photo with him. And of course it's now framed on my wall. And I think to this day now, I'm like, I wonder if he's seen the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But it's also like, yeah, I'm like, I reflected on what I said to him. Like, wow, what an idiot. I'm like, I produced the way you play basketball. I'm just, you know, like, but anyway, I, but, but point is we're going to get an athlete season four. I'm going to figure that out. You've inspired me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, I mean, I take so many means of that. Cause again, like, I want to do something with athletes. And I've been trying to talk Travis Kelsey into something. I'm like, that's my dream is to do a show or a movie with an athlete.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I'm doing a movie with John Cena next. Like, John Cena is that. But, like, what's annoying is... I'm a season ticket over to the Broncos. I love the Broncos. Of course, I know very well about Travis Kelsey. He's been killing us for 15 years. CA calls me and they go, come meet with Travis Kelsey. This is before he was dating Taylor Swift.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I'm like, obviously, he's like, we'll meet with you in Kansas City. You have to come out for a game. I'm like, obviously. In between then and when I finally go out, he's now the biggest star in the world. So I kind of feel like I missed that a little bit. But Travis Kelsey is... So funny, so charming, so personable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
When he's ready to kind of focus himself with acting, he's going to be a big star.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
see i but that's that's actually one thing i was like i kind of feel like now it's like so obvious but i feel like i was a little early and then i missed that boat a little bit but travis kelsey but i think he'll when he wants to he'll be a big star he'll be john cena john cena is so funny so talented and has that physicality of the stars that were you know 80s 90s did we hit everything yeah that was like an hour you always come back
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, like, our Rotten Tomatoes is... Rotten Tomatoes? Come on. You don't look at Rotten Tomatoes, do you? I don't... If I was... It's pathetic how much I consume response to the show. Like, I will... I don't know. I will sit on Twitter. I will read all the comments. Oh, don't do that. I can't help it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I'm also really... I'm actually really interested in people's theories on what happens this season. And I'm kind of consumed by people's theories because it's really fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I mean this genuinely. I really value your opinion. Oh, thank you. I do both on sports, but also on film and TV. And so I was really nervous to listen to the first episode, your episode about White Lotus. So other people listened to it. And I asked, I was like, is it positive or negative? Yeah. I didn't want to like, I just, I wanted to know it was okay. Cause I care about what you think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And so I was very excited to know that you liked the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, what's cool is you get to see a lot more of the country as the show goes on this season. And maybe we'll seduce you by the end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We talked about that. We talked about that as a potential.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's a dream, but also it's like, where do you want to live? Lifestyle is part of the decision-making because you're there for a year. And so we've talked about different continents and kind of... Nothing in America, though. Maybe we'll come back. We talked about it at some point. Could do Yellowstone, but then it's cold. Yeah, it depends on time of year, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
What's really fun, what's been fun about this season is also Thailand's a place that people don't really know and they're familiar with it from like the hangover. And it's been really amazing seeing the response and broadening the understanding of Thailand and Thai culture
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
beyond the surface level, beyond full moon party or sex tourism or whatever it is, which is an element of Thai culture, but it's not Thai culture. And it's been really great to see a country that's, you know, that needed the exposure. And they've really, you know, they've really responded to that in, in they've been so, um, warm to us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And Mike told me yesterday, he met the prime minister and came. He was like, if I asked him for a passport in assistantship, I feel like they'd give it to me. But it's been really exciting to kind of put a country on the map that hasn't really had that exposure. And that's kind of maybe part of our calculus going forward also.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's like, what's an undiscovered gem and what are places that people aren't that familiar with?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I remember, I mean, like everyone, it was like midnight, 12.05. I get a text from my little brother and he texted me something. I was like, did like the Lakers die in a plane crash? Like what happened? I was like, he just sent me basically, he's like, wow, Lakers. I was like, what does this mean? I go on ESPN and I'm like, it took a second because I love Anthony Davis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I think he's so underappreciated. Wow, the Anthony Davis zag. No, no, no. But, I mean, the last, when it was against the Nuggets game, you're like, oh yeah, this team is going to be good. And also just like, he plays like, he's like Magic Johnson, right? He has like, he just plays in the same way. Well, that was bad. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which I love.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's like the ultimate, it's like Liam Neeson and Taken. Like, they basically, he's basically like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, the next 15 years, he's basically gonna fuck the league up and, As a Lakers fan, as someone who goes to games, I am so excited to see him play. I had tickets to that Saturday game where we thought that Luka was going to play. And I had canceled all these plans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I had tickets and I was ready to go. And then the last second, they moved his first game to the 10th, which was the White Lotus premiere. And for like five seconds, I'm like, do I skip my own premiere to go see Luka play? Yeah. It's like, is that something I do? But yeah, I'm very excited about Luca. It's exciting to be in LA for this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Honestly, that's it. That's genuinely consuming way too much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, I tend to, I mean, I have good friends who somehow seem to work that into every intro. My whole identity now is the White Lotus producer. That is my identity and, you know, going forward, which I can't complain, which I'm very fortunate. It's a nice hook for you.