Daniel Wall

That's crazy.

How was it?

10 million monthly listens. About a billion streams.

Yeah, you're very genuine online. I really love all the posts you make. How... Okay, I want to ask this first real quick because this is a question I always like to ask everyone, which is... I think in music, in content, there's this kind of sense of like going viral overnight or like there's this sense of like having the song that changes your life overnight.

But how many songs do you think you wrote before getting like the first big hit?

Yeah.

June 7th to June 21st.

Probably.

And independent.

I don't even know if it's true, but I saw somewhere that it's, like, the music industry today is going into, like, 80%. Because there's so many artists that are independent, so many of them. I want to come back to this, but... Tell me about how you made La La La. I want to return to La La La. I love that song. How did that song come about?

Yeah.

It's about to hit a billion streams.

So did I really just forget that melody? Like walk into it, say into the microphone, did I really just forget that melody? And then when you hear the actual melody of Y2K going dot, dot, and then you come in, that was actually how it happened.

That's crazy.

That's crazy.

Did you expect that song to be like a hit?

And the moment that went crazy was the, did I just really forget that melody? I remember just being a meme and everyone just continuing to comment it for so long. And what's interesting about that period of time of viral songs is that they were so... many viral songs coming off of TikTok at that time. So crazy. Arizona Zervas, Roxanne, like Stupid Ashnikko, like so many songs.

But I feel like you've done a very good job of sustaining yourself as an artist versus... Because I think there's a difference between having viral songs and then being able to connect those songs to the actual artist.

Incredible.

It's maybe like 20, 25 a year probably. Probably went up with TikTok back in that time.

True.

Yeah.

Making me emotional.

What was the next song that you felt like you had fun that you made after La La La then?

Yeah.

I believe it's the second one. Yeah, onomatopoeia.

So the horns were added at the very end, the part that you hear at the very beginning. So it's all these, like... That's really cool, because it's all, like, the intro parts of the song that seem to be connecting really well so far. But also, I remember...

the filter that both you and rich brian did with the with the thing and i just remember that just going crazy every single time was that was that just like a random filter that you found on so basically what happened was i just did one filter and i just it was like but but but but but but

Because it was like a bear running, right?

That's sick.

You talk about fandom, and you talk about audience and everything like that, and even Chinese TikTok Douyan. You have a pretty tight-knit fandom in China, is that correct?

I've heard you talk about it several times, but how did that happen?

So it wasn't on the internet?

chinese social media and i just went gigaviral what year was this 2017 was that like one of the the things that like kind of pushed you into like not like really kind of started your career i guess you could say yeah so um

Yeah, what I find interesting is, like, in a similar way, most creatives I've talked to who have, like, developed success in some way right before they're about to quit. Like, right before. Or, like, the day that they decide, like, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. Something changes. Yeah. Same thing happened in a similar way to me, so I completely get that. What happened to you?

I got a job at a financial firm and I was trying to make content at the same time. I was working at a call center and I decided that I was going to Just going to work at a call center, be a nine to five worker for the rest of my life. And I was never going to be able to do this ever.

And then I posted a story that one of my favorite EDM artists, Porter Robinson, was going to be at a music festival that I used to work. And through people watching that story, eventually got reached out by his manager being like, yo,

porter porter would be down to make content you want to come out and i was like i don't know like let me find out for my job and i find out that that would have been like the first day i started at this new job so i either had to quit or work this job for the rest of my life and i decided to quit i went to the festival um he unfortunately ended up getting covid but he's the reason porter robinson to this day he doesn't know this um whenever i talk to him he's the reason that i went full-time in a sense because of that have you how does he not know this

We've possibly talked... Like, I've talked to his people about it a couple times, but maybe... I'm sure one day it'll happen in some way. But everyone I've talked to kind of has a similar thing, so that's kind of cool.

hit the fucking man up god damn it so uh edamame massive song super cool song one of the people who worked on that song isn't it diamond pistols is that right yeah you have a song with diamond pistols solo i i love that song help herself oh yeah that song rocks that song's great yeah so like emotional so real tell me about that song

Okay, here's where I wanna ask a question. Cause you say marketing the album. When I think of like marketing and music today, it's so like behind content. When you say marketing the album and putting money behind it, what does that mean exactly?

So I, I I'm excited to hear it. Were there any songs that you've made that you didn't expect to be hits?

Yeah. Even one of the songs you put out, It Boy, you had a whole thing. Was it like you creating DMs as if Eminem was DMing you, or was it like Eminem DMing you?

Okay.

Okay.

Gotta come to Mexico.

Wait, wait, wait. When were you born?

When were you born?

Okay.

So, like, right there. It's like zillennials.

And I was like, when you have that crazy hit with La La La, was there a lot of pressure to perform again? Yeah, big time. What happened? Incredible. Welcome back to Behind the Wall. Super excited today because we have the one, the only, BB No Money.

And who knows? Maybe he will get on it one day.

You don't think it works well for, like, to get the song more out there to get it?

I really liked Old Town Road when they added Billy Ray.

But he will.

One of the other songs that really stood out to me was, I really love Nile Rodgers. I think he's one of the most prolific songwriters ever. What made you want to sample him? And then how did Lil Freak come about?

She probably knew it really well.

Yes.

So in a sense you interpolated it.

That's crazy.

Sounds like it. You talked earlier about collaborating with Moist Critical. That's crazy. How did that happen?

Yeah. You guys were both dancing like crazy. I saw his little thing on like talking about every single dance move. I saw that.

Um, Is there a big difference between music that performs well on streaming platforms, music that performs well on radio, and music that performs well for sync?

Yeah, it really wasn't.

Or Mood, 24K Golden.

Like that one. Yeah.

When you have a song, do you come up with an entire content plan of like, here's what we're gonna do, here's how we're gonna try to make the song do well?

Do you find that you like your songs more when they do well? Like when they stream high, when, when everything like that, or like before you put it out, it doesn't really impact your opinion on it.

How did you develop that skill?

Your first viral video, how many videos did you post until the first one really hit? Do you remember the first video that really took off for you?

Yeah.

I feel like you had massive ones. I feel like you had one that were like over 50 million and stuff like that too.

Hanging low. You have been working. You mentioned gravy. You've been working and collaborating with gravy for like years now, right? You guys kind of like came up together.

How'd that happen?

Mr. Clean.

Like Facebook Messenger?

You also, it's cool to have someone that you were at nothing. I also like being able to like have success together and then be like, you were there when I was like at nothing and have this really great relationship.

Were your parents supportive of music when you first started? No.

At what point was it, like, your parents kind of accepting, like, oh, no, you've kind of figured this. Like, at what point was it, like, they could see it?

That's crazy.

Being global is great. I remember there was a big documentary that came out with a band that did Teenage Dirtbag. And now, like, in America, nobody knew who they were, but when they left for England and all these other places, they were just, like, massive stars. Yeah.

And there was a bit of, like, it said in the documentary, a bit of resentment to be, like, we're massive stars over here, but we haven't been able to make it in our home country. Yeah. But... I mean, it's interesting to see like someone to have such success around the world and then to continue to build in where they're from.

Have you been to Japan?

This is great.

No. Never.

And now you're going on a tour in Japan.

When are you going on a tour in Japan?

I've been to Mexico.

I love it. Yeah. Alex, it's been so great to chat with you.

I started this series to shine a light on the people and stories behind music, movies, and media, but it's also to inspire every underdog to go for it. You know, me personally never thought I'd be able to sit down with people like you to be able to get their stories and everything like that.

So what is a piece of advice you have for anyone out there who wants to get into music, into like creative, become an artist, have their life be something that they want to live?

Just, like, the whole day you're making music?

Shout out.

I love it. Yeah. Well, appreciate you. Thank you so much for being a part of this.

Is there anything that you want to shout out or promote or anything like that at all?

So I want to like get to the point of La La La. But first, what I found interesting about your story is that compared to a lot of artists and people who are successful in the industry, you started a bit later than where a lot of people like kind of start when it comes to music. How did you find your way to music and how did you decide this is what I want to do for the rest of my life? Yeah.

Everyone give it up for Baby No Money. I love it.

It's a pleasure. Great to meet you as well. What's really fun about your story is that I remember I started posting on TikTok around May of 2019. And I started posting content like three to five times a day for like Three years straight. And I remember back in May of 2019, there were all these songs that were going super viral. And one of the ones that went crazy was La La La.

No.

Ableton 10. Or was that like way or like nine?

It would make sense that a lot of your fans are also chronically online.

Same though. I'm also chronically online. It's a problem.

This interview is dedicated to the beloved artist and One Direction's own Liam Payne. I never had the honor of meeting Liam, but his presence in music meant so much to me and so many others around the world. His voice and impact will live on forever.

You're really the sixth member of One Direction.

So the next part of the story, does that lead to X factor then?

That's crazy.

Wow.

welcome back to behind the wall super excited because we have somebody today who's one of the biggest names and people in all of music and movies five years ago it was said that you sold over 300 million records that's records not streams as in physical records if we were gonna say streams on spotify alone i was actually doing the math last night in my bed i was counting up

And what were you doing on X Factor?

I saw some of those.

In this interview, I had the privilege of chatting with legendary songwriter Savin Kotecha, one of the key people who helped Liam, One Direction, and so many artists find their voice. This conversation was recorded before Liam's tragic passing, a loss that has deeply affected so many around the world.

and just on spotify savin said from my rough math it's over 40 billion streams in fact savin you've written co-written and made some of the biggest songs of all time and i'm so excited to be sitting down and chatting with you today oh thanks man for anyone who doesn't know who you are what are some of the songs that they would know you from oh gosh i'm old so let's see um

And the song also sounded like it came from a genuine place.

For sure. I want to, I want to come back to what makes you beautiful. Cause like statistically one of the biggest songs, one direction, one of the biggest statistically, one of the biggest groups of all time. Uh, but many people may not know that you're like really the sixth member of one direction in a way you kind of helped develop and, and form and push them as, as a, as a group.

What was that process like to kind of mentor them?

So you mentioned it earlier with what makes you beautiful, but tell me how you wrote One Directions, what makes you beautiful?

I'd love to see that. Not, not now.

Interesting.

we're going to go over all of them. There's so, there's so many, it's actually incredible in terms of everyone I've talked to the amount of hits you have. It's insane. And especially like songs that I grew up with listening. It's some of my favorite songs ever. Even like when you just said right now, DJ got us falling in love again by Usher. He just performed at the Superbowl.

interesting yeah i for to have a song as big as what makes you beautiful though it probably opened up so because because you had uh dj got his phone in love again with with usher and you had things where like hits with artists who've had hits yeah but then when it came to one direction it's kind of breaking a a group into the world was that like a different

Like that's, that's crazy. I had no idea you wrote that one. Oh, it was, that was a fun one. So I definitely want to go over all of those, but I was looking further into your story and now it's time I ask an important question. Is it true that Uncle Jesse from Full House was what inspired you to start writing music?

I also was so surprised to hear... I had forgotten that Cher Lloyd and One Direction were on the same season, which is crazy. That song, Want You Back, has actually come back recently on social media. I don't know if you've seen it.

It's gone viral again, the verse part, which is really fun.

How was the process of writing Cher Lloyd's Want You Back?

You know, it's interesting because Max Martin considered to be probably, I'm going to say one of because there's so many, but one of the greatest producers and so you could argue the greatest songwriter, greatest producer of all time. Also, you know, a collaborator of yours, a mentor. What are three lessons you've learned working with him?

Got it. Awesome. I'm pretty sure... where I want to cover now is some of the songs that you wrote in that whole, uh, Max Martin, Carl, like that, those kinds of days. Yeah. Some of those songs before we move on to one of my favorite artists. Um, but I think the only demo I've ever heard Max singing on, I believe it's DJ goddess fallen in love.

I think it's on YouTube and I can show it to you. Oh wow. After, um, how, what, how was it like to write ushers DJ goddess fallen in love? Um,

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Maybe there was a reason it needed to be a lower key because then it connected with people even more.

I also will say that like DJ got us falling in love again is a really great line for DJs to play the song.

Now, one of the biggest songs of the 2010s is Justin Bieber and Nicki Minaj's Beauty and the Beat. That's another one with Max. I remember in Justin Bieber's documentary, there's a line of Justin Bieber singing it and Max Martin saying, oh, that's incredible. You're such a great singer. How was it like to make that song?

So the next artist that you help break is one of the biggest artists in the world today. In fact, your first song with her just hit a billion streams, Santa Tell Me.

Tell me about how you started working with Ariana Grande.

And I wish that Liam could see how many people and how many lives he changed because of his incredible voice, his incredible message, and his incredible music. Before we begin, Savan asked me to share this heartfelt message in honor of Liam and his family. Hey, everyone. Since this conversation with Daniel was recorded, the world has changed with the tragic passing of Liam Payne.

I got one less.

It's a great song.

And also amazing song.

That's incredible.

So problem kind of started with you being on a plane with people around you. So you're whispering into your phone. That's really funny. Tell me a bit about Love Me Harder and then also The Weeknd with that song too.

That's incredible.

Going back to Ariana real quick, I also looked up that you wrote, this is so crazy to me, you wrote two songs for the show Victorious as well.

So now today you've written massive songs. You've been a part of massive songs. You've co-written them. But I wanted to ask because I think it's a really important part of your story. One of the things that I've tried to do with this series was to shine a light on the people and stories behind music, movies and media. Recently, it's changed.

My goal has a mission with this series is more to inspire every underdog to go for it. I think your story really fits into that mission really well.

that's what got that pre-course right amazing you know three of the biggest women in music being Jessie J Ariana Grande Nicki Minaj you mentioned it briefly earlier but bang bang how did that song come together

It's massive.

You made another song with Ariana Grande where it's kind of credited as being the catalyst for a lot of other songwriters and producers to learn how to make pop music. It was leaked onto the internet, the stems of the song. I've had quite a few music producers and songwriters tell me that this song was the reason that they know how to do pop music today. That's Ariana Grande's Into You.

And loving it.

Ah.

Amazing. The next group of songs by Ariana, there's two of them that I really want to go over. But there's a leaked demo of God is a Woman by another artist, Camila Cabello. How was it like to make God is a Woman with Ariana?

Easy to get to? Yeah.

I love it.

Amazing. You just mentioned No Tears Left to Cry, Ariana Grande. Is that a similar story of how that song came about?

Definitely. It's interesting because You've written so many songs with her, with her team, with Max, for Ariana. We just heard No Tears Left to Cry, Breathing, Greedy, Break Up With Your Girlfriend, I'm Bored. But it's interesting because Ariana Grande's most viral song on social media is an unreleased song. But what amazed me is you're credited as the producer and background vocalist for it.

I don't know if you remember it, but do you remember making a song called Fantasize?

Kind of like a parody thing.

Was that a good break from everything?

You know, if before a big catalyst for you or like what was giving you value at the time was success. Has that changed now?

I appreciate you talking about all of this because I think it's something that often doesn't get brought up when it comes to talking about the industry, when it comes to talking about even like creators today with viral posts. They put their entire value worth on if a video goes viral. I've even done that where if a video doesn't do well, I feel horrible about myself.

Definitely. I'm glad we talked about that specifically. Are you comfortable continuing to talk about the hits?

Again, like that's something that I'm experiencing right now and I'm trying to figure out as well. So a lot of those questions are, For sure, for anyone who's watching. But also, I almost feel that I'm approaching that level of tying self-worth to that. I've been trying to figure out how to go away from that. So I'm glad to hear you.

So you just had a big hit with Ariana Grande and The Weeknd, Love Me Harder. Is that how The Weeknd, Can't Feel My Face, comes together?

As you'll hear in my conversation with Daniel, my time with Liam in One Direction was truly life-changing. Liam played a huge role in making my wildest dreams come true. He was a light, and I'll forever be grateful that he was a part of my life. I know I speak for millions of fans when I say he will be missed beyond words. Lots of love, Sava.

then you go on to have hits with sam smith then it didn't it wasn't huge at first but today demi lovato's most viral song that has taken over tick tock was cool for the summer

This is us inspired.

And so you, you write into your phone a lot of the times.

I just love her. You also wrote, you also co-wrote one of, actually, I think it's Ellie Golding's biggest song, Love Me Like You Do. How did that song come about?

This is like, you know, you start making music for movies and,

You know, I love that movie. Eurovision song contest is, is a movie that, that me and my family watch all the time. Will Ferrell, one of the best comedy actors or actors of our generation.

How was it like working with him?

Big fan of that song, by the way.

Yeah. It's, it's funny cause Anne Hathaway is a big part of that movie.

She had a really big moment for music with Les Mis and everything like that. Um, in terms of creating music for a fictional boy band, is that different from writing music normally or is it pretty much the same process?

Definitely. I want to come back to the idea of you. Um, one song I really wanted to ask about one of my favorite songs in the entire film, who's a Vic hometown. Is it true that that song wasn't originally supposed to be in the film at first?

And then sung by Molly Sundin.

Amazing. For the idea of you, you definitely had to channel the songwriting from boy bands and everything like that. Why are you are you super excited for that movie specifically to come out?

Amazing. And it's great that the song connected with a ton is literally the name of the entire film.

Are there any songs, like for all the songs you've written, is there any one that like is your favorite for any like specific reason or anyone that like really stands out in particular?

It's actually funny because most, like the biggest Christmas songs aren't written by people who celebrate Christmas, which is awesome. I love that. I love that there are so many people... able to share their own version of the holiday and be a part of it still. But one of my theories about it is people connect with Christmas music because of nostalgia. So they grow up hearing it.

So a song doesn't become a Christmas hit or a classic until around 20 to 30 years after it comes out. And I feel like that's happening with three songs in particular. One is Santa Tell Me. Another is Mistletoe, Justin Bieber. And the other is Underneath the Tree, Kelly Clarkson. I think those are the three songs we're going to see also become classics.

Well, when you can, I'm very excited to watch and see them and be a part of it as well, because, you know, you've done so much and you're a huge inspiration to everyone out there, but especially me. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for everything that you've done being a part of this.

I want to ask, what's a piece of advice you have for songwriters, producers, anyone that wants to get in this industry? Be a creative.

That's just Spotify.

Amazing. Thank you so much, Savin, for being a part of this. It literally means the world. This is for you.

That also means the world coming from you. And I'm glad we find it's been a long time coming. So I'm glad we finally had the chance to chat and hopefully continue chatting for the future.

This is before they were big, right?

One of the biggest names and people in all of music. Usher. Ariana Grande. One Direction. It was said that you sold over 300 million records.

Amazing.

That's a crazy story. You brought up your family for a sec there. Music is kind of a untraditional path, especially for someone coming from a very traditional family. Were your parents supportive of you in this career?

Ich bin super gespannt darauf. War Heart Attack zuerst ein Hit?

Amazing.

Was that also one of her first big hits?

Next up, is it Talk Dirty?

Miss Moving On.

Ich bin sehr gespannt auf das. Aber für alle, die es nicht wissen, nicht wissen, wer du bist. Was sind deine Lieblingssongs? Was sind deine Lieblingssongs, die du gearbeitet hast? Mal sehen.

Crazy.

Talk Dirty hat eine Sample drin. Wusste du, dass es eine Sample war, als du es geschrieben hast?

Ich habe ein bisschen auf deine Geschichte geschaut. Und es gab einen Punkt in der Zeit, an dem du darüber gesprochen hast, wie du versuchst, Hits zu machen. Und dann war es nicht gesund. Es fühlte sich nicht gut an für dich. Und plötzlich gibst du dir auf das. Du sagst, ich will nur Musik machen. Ja. Und es gibt eine ganz andere Veränderung im Kopf und Mindset für dich. Ja.

Mit diesem neuen Mindset kamen einige der Songs, die du vorhin erwähnt hast, nämlich Girls Like You und What Lovers Do. Ich möchte hören, wie diese Songs aussehen. Ja.

Es gibt viele.

Ja.

Was war die Geschichte, wie Girls Like You gemacht wurde?

And then Cardi B gets on the remix.

Massiv, massiv Hit.

Ja.

Hey, ich bin okay damit. Einer der höchsten, auch einer der höchsten YouTube-Videos von einer Band.

Es ist 3,3 Milliarden.

3,3 Milliarden Views. Der einzige Grund, warum ich das weiß, ist, weil ich eine andere Person getroffen habe, die die Nummer 1 hat. Und es ist Ryan. Tedder? Ja. Was hat er? Counting Stars. Das sind 3,6 Millionen gerade.

Es ist wie ein Gruppe und sie sind in einem Warehaus. Es könnte sein. Da ist ein Krokodil drin. Das ist der größte. Ich kann keinen, der höher ist. Wow. Selbst BTS ist bei 1,5 Milliarden. Von dem, was ich sehe. Ich weiß. Verdammt, Ryan. Das ist unglaublich. Und er hat auch diese Masters. Nein, er hat keine Masters.

Wahnsinn. Die Lied, die wir gerade über Mädchen wie dich gesprochen haben, ist eine massive Lied. Was machen Liebhaber, bevor oder nach dem Lied?

I think so. Ich bin mir nicht sicher. Ryan hat mir erzählt, dass der letzte Single für Schriftsteller toll ist, weil es der ist, den sie immer auf Radio spielen. Interessant. Und der erste Single ist für euer Ego, der letzte Single ist für euren Bankkonto. Das waren seine Worte. Das ist gut. Das ist gut. Ich möchte die Geschichte von What Lovers Do hören, weil diese Song auch großartig ist.

What was the process for that song?

Hayley Aoki? Ja, ja, ja. Ich kenne sie aus Lemonade Mouth, richtig? Oder habe ich das falsch gemacht?

Ja.

Und du hast gesagt, Beiber wollte das Lied?

Das Lied... Wenn das Lied kommt, jamme ich. Du hast riesige Lieder geschrieben, du hast großartige Lieder geschrieben, du hast Lieder geschrieben, von denen manche ihre Favoriten sind. Ich wollte kurz zurückgehen, was dich in die Musik gebracht hat und was dich dazu gebracht hat, zu schreiben und zu produzieren?

Amazing.

And that's how girls like you, how you were able to send him.

Amazing. Exactly. It's almost like you are helping the next generation in a sense.

Ist das Coldheart?

Es gibt ein paar andere Songs, die ich wirklich ein großer Fan bin, die nicht für etwas anderes sind. Es sind einfach Songs, die ich liebe. Eine davon ist Rufus' Do Soul Treat You Better.

Ich war... jetzt schlägst du sie auf mich auf. Warst du das geplant?

Es kam zu dem Punkt, wo ich angefangen habe... Ich war wirklich interessiert, also habe ich Content gemacht. Eines der ersten Videos, die ich gemacht habe, die mir wirklich Spaß gemacht hat, waren Lieder, die gleich klingen. Und ich fand Lieder, die gleich klingen, natürlich aufgrund des Titels. Und... Taylor Swift's Look What You Made Me Do samplte eine andere Musik.

Ich wusste nicht, dass sie sie samplten. Sie antworteten, ich bin zu sexy für mein Shirt. Und ja, das macht es. Sie haben Kredit. Und ich war so, was? Und diese Stimme kam einfach raus. Und seitdem das passiert ist es so, dass ich seit ich fünf Jahre alt bin. Und es ist einfach etwas, was ich aufnehmen kann, wenn ich es brauche. Aber ja, es ist wirklich lustig.

Ich weiß nicht, ob du den größten Songwriter im ganzen Weltkrieg kennst, weil ich neben ihm bin. Es ist einfach wie die Anfangspunkte. Es bringt dich dazu, dass du dich aufhören kannst, nachdem du runter gehst. Es ist wie, oh, du bist mit mir auf der Reise. Also ja, wir machen sie alle und ich mache sie in der Song. Hast du Physical von Dua Lipa gehört?

Weil ich mit dem Mann bin, der es geschrieben hat. Und ich würde gerne hören, wie die Song gemacht wurde. Okay. Kann ich zuerst trinken? So while Jason is going to the bathroom, I wanted to just say thank you so much to one million of you for officially subscribing to this channel. Wow! One million members of our community, a part of Behind the Wall now. That is incredible. I remember...

Wow, vor sechs Jahren habe ich angefangen, auf diesem Kanal zu posten. Und ich habe nur weiter und weiter und weiter gepostet. Und weißt du, nichts hat sich wirklich verbunden, bis zwei Jahre nach dem Posten von Kurz- und Langform-Videos.

Und auch dann habe ich so viel Spaß gemacht, Content zu machen und Content zu posten über die Hintergrund-Szenen der Musik und der Songwriter und Produzenten und Hintergrund-Szenen von Filmen und Hintergrund-Szenen von allen Arten von Dingen. Und es war so viel Spaß, Ich kann nicht glauben, dass nach sechs Jahren

Wir haben 1 Million Zuschauer erreicht und jetzt möchte ich mit 1 Millionen von euch sprechen. Wenn du ein neuer Zuschauer bist, hallo. Wenn du ein alter Zuschauer bist, was ist los? Wenn du nicht abgeschaltet bist, spreche ich nicht mit dir mehr. Ich spreche mit den 1 Millionen Menschen, die auf diesem Kanal abgeschaltet sind.

Es ist so unglaublich, dass 1 Millionen von euch Teil dieser Gemeinschaft sind. Aber ich will nie sehen, dass etwas diese Gemeinschaft beschädigt, wie wir es mit anderen Plattformen sehen. I'm so excited to say that we're officially going to have an exclusive community for Behind the Wall. For all of those who want to go even further behind the wall. For all of you who have more questions.

Who want to learn about the behind the scenes of music, movies and media. For the people who want to help me come up with questions for the people I'm talking to. For the people who want even more exclusive content. For the people who want even better content. Including this episode that you're watching right now.

Wir werden Dinge machen, die die Leute noch nie gemacht haben, im Hintergrund der Musik. Ich weiß nicht wirklich, ob Jason das jemals gemacht hat. Als Beispiel geht Jason Evigan über seine echten Demonstrationen für die Lieder, die wir in diesem Episodemonstrationen sprechen. Wir hören die nie vorher gehörtem Demonstrationen von einigen der größten Lieder jemals.

girls like you what lovers do hate me ellie golden juice world chains nick jones chains we don't even talk about that song in the interview but he plays us the actual demo and tells us how it happened and which artists almost had the song it's crazy and i'm so excited to be launching this and to have you a part of this behind the wall community you guys are such a big part of the reason that i'm able to even do these videos so if you want to support and

Be a part of the community. If you just want to support, please check out our exclusive community. So thank you all so much for 1 million subscribers. Thank you all so much for being a part of this community. And thank you so much for going behind the wall with me. But until then, I think Jason Evigan might be out of the bathroom by now. Let's get back to Jason Evigan.

So there's a couple songs I'm interested in, in terms of songs that you're interested in chatting about.

Oh, sick. One of the songs that I think connected with the recent internet generation was Hate Me. Yeah. Ellie Goulding, Juice WRLD. How did that song happen? I'm really curious about that one, actually.

Bist du sich daran gewöhnt? Ja, jetzt weiß ich, was sie tut.

That song, like, touched a generation right there. Especially, like, on TikTok. Really? Yeah. How so? There's all these, like, videos that were created. It went, like, super viral on there. Really? Oh, yeah. Dang. That's awesome. What's your thoughts on TikTok's impact on the music industry?

Es scheint so zu sein, dass die Musik heute so auf Kultur konzentriert ist, als wie großartig der Song ist. Wie er es auf der Internetseite macht, ist ein großer Einfluss darauf, wie gut der Song sein wird. 100 Prozent. Denn das ist der Hauptgerät jetzt.

Versus being in the room with the artists and helping them.

Yeah. A hundred percent.

For sure. I think that there's a great benefit to having a more even playing field for independent artists. And that's what it is kind of allowed. But at the same time, it, Es sah so aus, als ob es Möglichkeiten gab, in der Musik erfolgreich zu sein, und plötzlich wurde das von dem traditionellen Fluss, der Art und Weise, wie die Dinge waren, unterbrochen.

Die Radio-Welt war schon eine gute Menge Zeit her, oder?

Und auch vor der Radio-Welt war es nicht wirklich ein Weg, Musik gut zu monetisieren. All of a sudden, als die Radio-Welt kam, begann die Industrie wirklich zu kreieren. Alles mit dem ganzen Prozess von Songwriters und Produzenten. Und jetzt, all of a sudden, fühle ich mich, dass es dieses große... Weil damals war es sehr schwierig, Lieder zu machen und sie in die Welt zu bringen.

Es gab eine große Barriere. Du hattest einen Wettbewerb, um Musik zu machen, weil es so teuer war, um die Lieder zu machen. Und dann hat sich das plötzlich verändert, weil es so einfach ist, Songs auf diesen Plattformen rauszuholen, dass die große Barriere kommt von, okay, es sind 75.000 Songs, die jeden Tag rauskommen, nur auf Spotify.

Was kann ich tun, was mich differenziert, um diese Song zu bemerken? Es gibt so viel Wettbewerb, dass es jetzt schwierig ist. Und all das Wettbewerb geht zu TikTok, um zu sagen, was kann ich tun, was mich mit dieser Song differenziert, um sie in irgendeinem Weg zu fangen. Ja.

Definitiv. Es ist cool. Du hast viel in deiner Karriere gemacht und so viel erzielt. Und letztens, einer dieser Dinge, ist ein Grammy gewonnen. Glückwunsch auf das. Super spannend. Danke. Danke. War das etwas, was dein Ziel war, als du zu Beginn in die Musik gekommen bist?

Und sag mir, ob ich mich hier falsch mache, hast du auf Treat You Better gearbeitet? Ist das richtig?

Das ist eines meiner Lieblingssongs. Ehrlich? Ja. Was war das so zu machen und zu arbeiten?

Ja, bitte.

Also sie sind nicht einfach auf der Wand. Versus 30 Minuten für einen anderen Song.

Ich habe mit Julia über diesen Song gesprochen, was eine der einzigen Gründe ist, dass ich dich aufhören muss, deine Perspektive zu hören. Aber... Wie war es, Miss Moving On von Fifth Harmony zu schreiben? Das war schon lange her. Ja.

Es ist wie wenn die Jungs gewinnen, weißt du? Definitiv. Ja. Es scheint, dass du nicht nur... Hoffnungen hast, einen Erfolg für dich zu erreichen, sondern auch Hoffnung, dass jeder, der dich umdreht, Erfolg bekommt. Ich denke, das ist... ...ein wirklich wichtiges Stück zu haben. Ja. Was ist ein Stück Hinweis, den du hast für... ...Sänger, Songwriter, Produzenten, Leute, die in die Industrie wollen?

Ich würde sagen...

Wir haben dieses Ding gemacht, das heißt, was in der Tasche ist. Es ist im Grunde ein Geschenk. Und das Problem war, dass ich das nicht wirklich für dich bekommen wollte, ohne dass du es eigentlich willst. Okay. Weil es alles mit Teen Beach Movie begonnen hat. Und so habe ich das schnell gemacht, aber ich würde es eigentlich gemacht und verletzt, wenn du es tatsächlich... Oh mein Gott.

Wenn du es tatsächlich willst.

Es ist nicht cool. Aber die Wahrheit ist, es hat angefangen. Ich werde ehrlich sein. Ich denke, es ist eine der coolsten Dinge. Wirklich? 100 Prozent. Der Fakt, dass deine Stimme in einem Disney Channel Film ist und du nicht nur einige der größten Hits heute geschrieben hast, sondern du hast einige der Songs geschrieben, die so viele Menschen beeinflusst haben. Und ich fühle mich auch so,

Eines der Dinge, die ich nicht so viele Leute bekommen, ist, dass Kinder aufwachsen, um Älteren zu werden. Und das, was sie als Kinder liebten, ist das, was nostalgisch und cool wird. Meine Generation liebt Disney Channel-Stuffe. Jonas Brothers kamen zurück, um einen Grund. Und ich habe das Gefühl, dass die nächste Generation, die unter mir ist, das liebt.

This was the whole reason I'm here.

Du bist ein toller Kerl, du bist ein toller Kerl. Dieser Kerl ist gut. Danke so sehr, dass du hier bist und Teil davon bist. Es ist großartig. Was ist in diesem? Das ist nur eine Danke-Karte. Danke. Du kannst das in deinem eigenen Zeitraum lesen. Okay, cool, cool. Und dann...

Ich weiß nicht, ob du genug Zeit für das hast, aber ich denke, es wäre cool, die Demos zu sehen, über die du vorhin gesprochen hast. Ja, lass uns sie finden. Wir machen es. Vielen Dank, dass du uns auf Behind the Wall mitgebracht hast. Ja, danke. Dieser Typ ist hier. Er ist ein besonderes, kleines, besonderes Mensch hier, weißt du?

War es die Nummer 1 Billboard-Sendung? Hier ist ein neuer Song von Rastara. Bleib bitte sehr niedrig.

Was hast du für Austin Alley gemacht?

Warte, das ist großartig.

Ja, mit mich und Mitch. Und Mitch arbeitet auf all dem Disney-Stuff, oder?

Today on Behind the Wall, we're thrilled to be able to sit down with one of the biggest songwriters and producers in the world.

Was that a big step in your career? Was that the first thing that was like, Das ist das, was ich machen will. Ich will Songs für andere schreiben und produzieren.

Behind some of the biggest songs for artists like Demi Lovato, SZA, Selena Gomez, Maroon 5, Ellie Goulding, Juice WRLD and so many more. But when one of the biggest artists in the world rejected him because they said he was too pop,

Das ist übrigens ein fantastischer Song. Danke. Ich liebe es. Danke. Als ich als Kind das Lied auf dem Radio gehört habe, habe ich ein paar Demi Lovato-Vokalisten angeschaut. Und dann, als ich älter geworden bin und angefangen habe, Produktion zu lernen, habe ich das Lied zum ersten Mal wieder gespielt. Ich dachte mir, oh mein Gott, das Lied ist verrückt.

Aber auch die Produktion im Hintergrund, wenn der Chorus schlägt, das ist verrückt.

Oh, krass.

Oder hat es ihn... Erzähl mir den Prozess, wie du das Song gemacht hast und wie es in dem Ort war. Okay, also, an dem Zeitpunkt war meine Band so ein bisschen runtergegangen. Es war ein bisschen auf dem Aus, ein bisschen.

Wollte Nikki es zuerst singen?

Ja, sicher. War es eine große Zusammenarbeit, zumindest bei Heart Attack, war es eine große Zusammenarbeit zwischen dir und Sean für das Lied?

Er kam das erste Mal, als ich ihn kennengelernt habe. Oh, wirklich? Ja, das erste Mal, als ich ihn kennengelernt habe, ja.

Also das erste Mal, als ihr euch treffen, kommt er in den Raum, was passiert?

Lass uns hinter die Wand gehen mit Jason Evigan, einem Mann, der von Bandleiter zu Hitmaker, zu Grammy-Winner-Produzentin ging. Du bist bereit. Dieser Kerl ist gut. Für alle, die es nicht wissen, bin ich gerade mit dem einen und einzigen, Jason Evagant. Das ist schon lange her. Ich habe ein Video über Jason gemacht, ich glaube, vor einem Jahr. Und wir werden es machen.

Du versuchst es für andere Leute zu kaufen und es endet dann in Demi. Ja, sicher. Wir haben es für alle gekauft. Hatten die Leute, wie sie es denken, wie die Leute versuchen, es sofort aufzuhalten? Oder ist es ziemlich so, dass es nicht wirklich so ist, wie wir es jetzt wollen? Und es hat eine Weile gedauert, um mit Demi zu enden.

Habt ihr jemals auf die Song geworfen?

Wenn ihr es beendet und Demi ist dabei, und ihr sagt, diese Song ist anders. Das ist eine der ersten Songs, wo ich gesagt habe, diese Song, die ich gearbeitet habe, ist etwas Besonderes. Ist das das Gefühl? Oder ist es einfach so, ich mag das wirklich. Lass uns es ausmachen.

Unglaublich. Ja. Es klingt so, als ob die meisten talentierten und erfolgreichsten Songwriters, Produzenten und Menschen in der Industrie irgendeine Art von Mentorin haben, von der sie lernen. Was ist deine Empfehlung an die Leute da draußen, um einen Mentor zu finden? Und wie hast du Scott gefunden?

Truly my big brother. Love him a lot. Love that. He told me, he's like, I just wrote this song with Amy Allen and Scott Harris. It's gonna be coming out soon. And I'm really excited for it to come out. We'll see what happens. And actually that day, he played for me before it came out, 10.35. And I was like, this is gonna be crazy. So...

Ich liebe es. Es ist interessant, dass du Gabs mitbringst. Ich habe ein Interview mit Gabs gemacht. Und sie hat darüber gesprochen, wie Scott Harris eine Nachricht zu Gabs geschrieben hat, dass Amy Allen der beste neue Songwriter ist, den ich je gesehen habe. Was denkst du, warum denkst du, dass Scott das geschrieben hat? Was denkst du über diese Session? Was hast du anders gemacht?

Das ist verrückt.

I'm so excited to chat with you today. You are someone who has truly made a name for yourself. I started this series to shine a light on the people and stories behind music, movies and media. And you are someone who has truly done that in music. For anyone who may not know who you are, what are some of the songs they might know you from?

Worauf gravitate du jetzt?

So you start working with Scott a ton. And how many sessions would you say you're doing like throughout the time in New York? Are you doing like stuff every single day? Are you doing like, are you writing so many songs, just getting reps, reps, reps in?

Während dieser Zeit, die du vorhin erwähnt hast, kommt Salida Gomez zurück zu dir. Was hat das für dich in deiner Karriere getan?

Als du das erste... War das der erste Song, den du jemals gedreht hast?

Als du den ersten Hits hattest, war da viel Druck, einen anderen hinzubekommen?

Du schreibst wahrscheinlich jeden Tag.

Ich glaube es. Dein zweiter Song, der sich ausfällt und wirklich verbindet, ist, du hast es vorhin gesprochen, das war Halsey's Without Me. Das war der erste, der Nummer eins für dich ging. Du hast Rekorde gebrochen, ich habe all diese Sachen gemacht. Was bedeutet das für dich?

Du bist von der Krankenklinik bis zu den Jahren später die Nummer 1-Song in der Welt.

Was hat dich überzeugt, nicht mehr in eine Ärzteschule zu gehen? Und Musik zu versuchen?

Ja, wenn ich höre über all die verschiedenen Songs, die du gemacht hast, scheint es so zu sein, dass du ein echtes Geschenk hast, um Künstler zu machen, sich zu fühlen, um die Kreativität herauszufinden. Aber wo ich anfangen möchte... Ich will alle Songs durchgehen und natürlich auch dein Artistprojekt.

Ich meine, aber...

Amy Allen ist die beste neue Songwriterin, die ich je gesehen habe.

Got it. One of the reasons I asked that is you work with so many incredible artists as a songwriter. Sabrina, Tate, Rosé, Harry, so viele mehr, Halsey. Was ist dein Prozess beim Arbeiten mit verschiedenen Künstlern? Bist du wie ein Formulierer und steigst zwischen den beiden? Oder beobachtest du es immer gleich?

Eines der Dinge, über die ich mich immer gerne spreche, ist die Idee, dass es ein übernachtshafter Erfolg ist. Denn es gibt keine solche Sache. Niemand sieht es. Jeder sieht nur den Erfolg. Sie sehen nicht den Schwung und so weiter. Ich habe 150 Videos veröffentlicht und dann 3.500 Videos, um herauszufinden, was ich eigentlich mache.

Interessant. Es scheint, dass viele der Künstler, mit denen du arbeitest, eigentlich Freunde sind. Das ist cool, die Videos zu sehen.

Ja. Einer deiner Bucket-List-Artisten, mit denen du arbeitest, war es Harry Styles? War das einer von ihnen damals?

Eine meiner Lieblingssongs ist Adore You. Ich glaube, es ist so eine tolle Song. Ich liebe es absolut. Ich liebe es auch. Wie fühlte sich diese Session an und wie war es, diese Song anzuheben?

Wie viele Lieder würdest du sagen, dass du geschrieben hättest, bis Selena Gomez zurückgekommen ist?

Sabrina ist so lange in dieser Industrie gearbeitet. Sie arbeitet seit 10 Jahren. Und in der gleichen Art, wie du warst. Als Songwriter und so. Das ist eine meiner Lieblingspunkte von ihr.

Und es scheint, dass das, was sie wirklich auf den nächsten Niveau gedrängt hat, ihre Persönlichkeit mehr als alles in Songs, Nonsens-Outros, die verschiedenen Dinge zeigen, wer sie ist und dann auch die Sessionen zusammen sehen. Es scheint, dass ihr alle nur Spaß habt, während ihr Musik macht. Sagst du, das ist dein Ansatz, wenn du jetzt Songs machst?

Du hast auch mit Ryan Tedder gearbeitet. Ich habe ihn gefragt, ob er für dich Fragen hat. Er hat drei Fragen. Einer von denen ist nicht eine Frage, einer ist eher ein Statement. Perfekt. Der erste ist, ob du die Musikindustrie in jeder Stadt der Welt bewegen könntest und sie ausländisch verwendest, statt in L.A., wo wäre das und warum?

Definitiv. Der zweite war, vergleiche die Hits in 2024 mit dem Prozess, als du angefangen hast.

Als du den ersten Hits hattest, war da viel Druck, einen anderen zu finden?

Do you like that more?

Du und Ryan gehen weiter mit Scott Harris auf 10.35 Uhr. Und dann startest du mit Tate an so vielen verschiedenen Songs zu arbeiten. Wie funktioniert das mit ihr?

Einer meiner Lieblingsartisten ist Rosé. Ich liebe absolut alles, was sie mit Blackpink gemacht hat. Ich liebe absolut alles mit On the Ground und natürlich APT mit Bruno Mars. Das ist einer meiner Lieblingssongs. Ich liebe das Lied. Ich zeige es allen. Oh, danke. Erzähl mir über diesen Song.

Was hat dich in die Musik gebracht?

Wahnsinn. Und auch Bruno Mars, super verrückt. Ich bin ein großer Fan von seiner Geschichte, als Songwriter und als Künstler. Super cool. Phänomenal. You said that you did a Grammy panel this upcoming year. You were nominated for the second time for a Grammy Songwriter of the Year. Incredible. Thank you. I'm rooting for you. Thank you. What would it mean to you to win that? I think...

Wir haben viel über dein Songwriting gesprochen, aber du hast als Künstler angefangen und hast deinen Weg zurückgefahren, um Künstler zu werden. Erzähl mir die Geschichte, was dich zurückgebracht hat, um Künstler zu werden.

Viele der Songs, die du mit anderen schreibst, die Choreos, sind die perfekten Melodien. Aber die Songs, die du für dich schreibst, sind sehr persönlich. Ist das ein anderer Prozess, wenn es um eine Song für dich geht?

Definitiv mehr persönlich.

Was sehr wichtig war, ist, dass du dich als Künstler entschieden hast, nachdem du eine der größten Songs im Weltraum geschrieben hast. Du warst so, ich werde mich auf dieses Projekt für mich konzentrieren. Was hat dich dazu gebracht und wie hast du das entschieden?

Even your first song that was released on Spotify, Queen of Silver Linings, with Dan Wilson.

He said please, please, please.

And Blake.

Waren es andere Lieder, in denen es so fühlte?

Hattest du überhaupt Angst vor dem Studio, als du erst angefangen hast?

Ja, ich würde sagen, was interessant ist, du bist einer der, ich würde sagen, du bist einer der meisten, nicht sogar einer, du bist der erfolgreichste Songwriter des Jahres. Meine Meinung. Jemand kann sagen, was auch immer sie wollen. Das ist meine Meinung dieses Jahres.

Aber was interessant ist, ich bin sicher, du hast so viele Leute, die dich anrufen wollen, um in Sessionen zu kommen, aber du bist aus deinem Weg gegangen, um es als Priorität zu machen, Musik für dich selbst zu machen. Wie machst du das als Priorität, wenn du... der größte Künstler im ganzen Weltraum.

Das klingt so. Eine der Songs, die du gemacht hast, ist eine große Viralsensation mit einer Parodie geworden. Espresso. Oh, ja. Warte, das ist ein L-Bit?

Wie fühlt es sich an, wenn eine der Songs, die du gemacht hast, sogar größer wird als die Song selbst? Das ist verrückt. Ich habe gerade gesehen, dass er an einem der Shows war und er das gemacht hat. Das ist verrückt.

You know, when I started this series, Amy, it was to shine a light on the people and stories behind music, movies and media. But as I've continued, it has evolved into this to inspire every underdog to go for it.

What is your piece of advice for anyone out there who wants to get into the industry as a creative songwriter, artist? You've been all of them.

Das ist der einzige Hinweis.

Ich denke, ein sehr wichtiger Punkt als Künstlerin und Songwriter ist dein Warum. Warum gehst du immer als Songwriterin und Künstlerin weiter?

And

Ich denke, es ist sehr nützlich, nur weiter zu schreiben und Songwriter zu sein. Was ist dein nächstes Ziel als Künstler?

Es ist wirklich unglaublich, deine Reise gesehen zu haben. Ich denke, es ist sehr selten, einen Songwriter zu sehen, der so gut mit Künstlern arbeitet. Er ist in fast jedem Song auf Albums. Es ist unglaublich, das zu sehen. Aber auch, dass du deine Reise als Künstler gesehen hast. Ich wollte sagen, ich habe über deine Geschichte im Jahr 2022 gehört.

Es war mir eine große Ehre, heute mit dir zu sprechen. Danke. Das ist eine Dankeschön-Karte, um Teil von Behind the Wall zu sein.

Unglaublich. Hattest du in der Studie überhaupt keine Angst, als du erst angefangen hast?

Soll ich das später öffnen? Ja, ja, ja.

Ich habe sehr schlechte Handzeichen.

Ja, es ist lang. Ich bin ein langer Schreiner. So süß. Vielen Dank, dass du mitgekommen bist. Gibt es noch etwas, das du anrufen möchtest, was du dem Publikum sagen möchtest?

Unglaublich.

Das ist, was du tun willst. Das ist, was ich tun möchte. Yes, well, thank you so much for watching Behind the Wall. Everyone go listen to Amy's album. It'll be in the description. Her music will be in the description that she's written with others. And hopefully many more conversations in the future.

Also war das Konzept für die Klasse, dass du mit fünf anderen Leuten einen Song gemacht hast und es dann allen präsentiert hast?

Es gibt dieses Konzept, das ich von all diesen Songwritern und Produzenten höre. Diese Idee, sich zu trauen. Ist das eine Fähigkeit, die du entwickelt hast?

Du bist von der Krankenklinik bis zum Nr. 1. Song in the world.

When you start working with a new artist, do you have a certain approach that you go about doing? Because you've worked with so many incredible artists.

All these without me.

You were nominated for the second time for a Grammy Songwriter of the Year.

Du hast gesagt, dass du zum Berklee-Kollege von Musik gingst. Du hast gesagt, dass ich ein bisschen in deine Geschichte geschaut habe. Es klingt, als ob einer deiner größten Mentoren Scott Harris ist. Was hast du von ihm gelernt? Und wie hast du mit ihm gearbeitet?

So excited today. Welcome back to Behind the Wall. Today we have someone that has truly made a name for themselves as an artist, a songwriter, two-time Grammy-nominated songwriter, future Grammy-winning songwriter and future Grammy-winning artist. So excited. I've been wanting to chat with you for a long time now, Amy. Back in 2022, I got to talk to Ryan Tedder. And he told me... The big brother.

That's insane.

Okay, we're here. And we're back. Benny Blanco. It is such an honor to see you again.

What made these songs feel like you were so like, yes, these are the ones. These are the ones I believe in.

Did you know that right from the demo or when Adam got on them?

What I love most of all is like no one, it sounded like no one believed in those songs.

Until they're huge, until they are big.

We have Diamonds, Rihanna.

Uh, same old love Selena.

Julia Michaels issues.

You just did moves like Jagger.

Well, now you were starting to play me the demos and it just like brought like energy and joy to me so quickly. It's insane. First of all, like has anyone ever like heard these before? Besides the people who made them, which is. Yeah.

She was like, I don't know.

This is insane. This is amazing.

You're helping me break ground.

I've heard glimpses of the diamond story, but I've never heard it.

I'm ready.

This was a big idea from Benny. Benny wanted to go over a lot of the demos. And one of the pieces that is really important to me for this series is, of course, to shine a light on the people and stories behind music, but it's also to inspire the next generation of creatives. Of course. And I think that this is something people can see how music is created.

I was like, well, also you really looked up to Eminem for the longest time, right?

I think it's going to drive a lot of people to be like, wow.

By far.

That song was great.

look maybe i can do it too oh you're so good at this you inspire me i get inspired that means the world you inspire me though ben um before we get into it a lot a lot has changed like since our last interview which by the way so many people loved so many people loved our last conversation so to do this again dream for me well i mean you you got engaged oh i did i did get engaged i did Amazing.

Yeah, this part's great.

Yeah.

That is insane. Before you even started playing the song, that was the part I was singing in my head.

That's it. Wow. That's what happens.

There's this famous video of Sia playing it at some sort of conference.

I know. One of the songs we may go over today, I believe, was the first time you might have worked with Selena. Is that right?

It makes it so much better.

So they write, they're doing the song, they get it out, demo's there. How long does it take to get from a demo to a finished song then?

I think it's like 2015 or so.

How long is a long time?

how it might be different every time, but like when you are starting a song and doing a song with an artist, like, do you come with beats? Do you like try to make it right on the spot? Do you let the artists like lead the way? Does it depend on the person?

Let's say you're doing a new session right now with an artist you really want to work with. Is there an example of an artist you really want to work with right now?

Let's say, yeah. Okay, let's say you're working with me.

What would you do?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

I think it was 2016.

Besides when you have a deadline and they're like, we need this song finished.

I know about Teenage Dream being the hardest song.

All I know is that Snoop Dogg and Katy were in the viral video happened.

Okay. Are you still that? Are you still flying or do you not fly?

I fly when I like.

I don't. I kind of just like driving.

Yeah. Personally. Where do you live again? Arizona.

In Arizona?

Like to the gym. That's it? Like if I need to go somewhere else. Like Scottsdale, Phoenix area.

Is that normal for a song?

Yeah. It's just very hot, especially in the summer.

I was planning. I was literally supposed to move a couple weeks back.

We'll see. What? Yeah. What made you not want to? The day that I was supposed to move out here, everything started. And then my sub lease got canceled because of everything that's happened. I need to find another. Do you want to be out here? Every time I come out here, more exciting stuff like this happens. I feel like I've been in Arizona all my life, so it's probably time.

Yeah, here over Arizona to Burbank was 54 minutes.

Isn't that crazy?

You've driven to where?

Really? You've been to Arizona?

For like what?

You drive from California to New York?

Yeah, but that's a cool story. Yeah, but that's- And also it was filmed.

How many times have you done the boat?

What do you do on the drives to New York?

Oh, that sounds enjoyable. That sounds better than a flight.

Okay.

How did this beat come about? How did you, what do you do for this?

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What I find interesting is a lot of these songs have that, you were playing it earlier, I forgot which one it was, but it was like just the basis of the parts of, and it was like the actual syncopation, but not the words.

I love this.

It's like the melody, and then someone comes in and top lines it.

That's a crazy song to be on the toilet for.

Okay. I'm, I'm an Ableton user. Can you explain for an Ableton user?

Yeah.

Well, clearly it worked.

Do you find that like tempo really impacts a song?

Wow.

Do you, so last time we talked about like how you make like different food for different artists. Yeah. What is like, do you find that like certain artists like different food? Like do you make a specific food for?

I am a big, my mom makes this really incredible chocolate chip pumpkin bread.

Made by my mom specifically, yeah.

That's crazy.

You're a very, like... very personable kind of like person just like personable kind of person yeah um the the the other two songs how much time do we have left to do stuff so i know we have until 11 so 30 more minutes so then what do we who do we we have blah blah blah you have edge here and divide also i mean you just have like so many so these were the songs that i was given but i mean like

You're, I mean, I'm fine to go over any of them.

I heard you say that.

Are you able to talk about the songs? Yeah.

That's insane. First of all, I saw, I don't know if you said that in an interview.

You guys wrote five number ones for other artists. I think so.

I've heard it, but.

Incredible, by the way.

Yeah.

I heard Ed say that he doesn't even remember writing that song. I remember he said that he got a text from Diplo that was like, or like from you or him. And like, we're thinking about playing this song out. He's like, I don't even remember what that was.

Of course.

with julia yeah yeah yeah we made that was all made during that album like we made i think we have i think we have five that's the day y'all wrote dive too yeah that was the day we wrote that i know it's crazy it's so crazy i have a dumb question yes what okay you have like east side 1.0 4k 4j yeah what's your organization process like and then what does that mean

Think about the idea.

that you do that as well, right? You're able to listen to someone and come up with an idea in real time.

100%.

We can always take this out if this is not something that you want to leave in. But for Julia, Julia was like one of the first interviews I ever had. Told me the story of Sari. She told me that the same day that Sari hit number one, they wrote the song. But Same Old Love also went number one on radio the same day. And she was saying that.

But then she talked about like all these artists who wanted it. And there's only one that's leaked onto YouTube.

Charlie XCX. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who was the person who helped co-write Same Old Love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is crazy to think about. Was there something about that demo and that song that everyone wanted issues from? It was just like...

Yeah, I feel like we live in such an artist-dominated part now versus how it was back in the day, which is amazing.

And you're excited to work with all of them.

When you said that earlier about animals, by the way, taking eight years, I saw Timbaland said pony.

He held on to that song for eight years.

Y'all have that in common. That's insane. So earlier when you were talking about like making a song with somebody, you go through the process of like connecting with... So, okay, here's what it sounds like actually is happening then. You have a conversation with the actual artist. They are telling their story. You guys are like forming an actual genuine connection.

You guys have an actual genuine conversation. And it sounds like whatever you're talking about oftentimes becomes the song. Yeah, of course. Always. Do they... Okay, so I was in a session with somebody and I tried this process.

We did this whole thing because like Tranter told me about this too with other things like that. And they wanted to stop writing because they felt it became too real.

Wow. So, okay. Going back to what we said at the beginning with this goal of like helping the next musical creatives, a lot of people who are watching right now, probably probably are, you know, making music, want to be songwriters, want to be producers, want to be artists.

I think it's really cool because, I mean, this has never really been done before, like to a certain extent, but not to this level. So first of all, thank you so much for letting us go behind the wall and showing the demos of the songs. What is your advice to anyone out there who wants to, one, start making music or wants to start making music their full-time thing?

For all the moms out there that are watching this right now.

When I started the series, it was to shine a light on the people and stories behind music, but it was also to inspire every underdog to go for. I used to work, told you this last time, I used to work at a call center before that, like graduated without a job, wanted to do music, wanted to create videos, wanted to do interviews, wanted to do all these things. I made a vision board.

Put you, Tedder, Williams, John Williams, Hans Zimmer, so many, Chris Martin, so many people I wanted to talk to, collaborate with, meet. And I put it on the wall. I started making videos like crazy every single day with my shitty little iPhone and recording my 2015 MacBook Pro. And then after six years, and actually yesterday, I started to tear up, like tears of joy, like about this specifically.

Because I couldn't believe that something like this was able to happen something that like this to me like has always been a dream so the fact that I'm able to do this like for a living is incredible it's crazy and you like I think I think over time a lot of people have You're going to get like a million no's, but all you need is like that one person to believe in you.

And luckily I had like five of my first interviews, people who like are some of my musical heroes, like Julia, like Tranner, like Tedder, like you. Aww. So I just wanted to say thank you again for doing this. Thank you. Thanks for letting us go behind the wall once more. We did it. We went behind the wall. To see the incredible demos of the songs. What's this? You always give me a little thing.

Because you're just the king. You're just a legend. And I appreciate you every single time.

And this is probably going to drop around the time of your new project.

Thank you.

This is something people can see how music is created. I think it's going to drive a lot of people to be like, wow, look, maybe I can do it too. Aw, you're so good at this. Me and Ed Sheeran. You guys wrote five number ones for other artists.

Are you able to talk about the songs that...

Oh my gosh. Hi. Here we are again with the one and only, one of my musical heroes, Benny Blanco. Where am I supposed to look? There's so many cameras.

It was like Jagger was the song you were trying to make as your idea?

So this one's on me, this one's on you, this one's on there, and this one's on us.

Wow.

That's insane.

What made these songs, what made these songs feel like you were so like, yes, these are the ones, these are the ones I believe in.

Did you know that right from the demo or when Adam got on them?

Well, now you were starting to play me the demos and it just like brought like energy and joy to me so quickly. It's insane. First of all, like has anyone ever like heard these before? besides the people who made them, which is. Yeah.

Until they're huge.

We have Diamonds, Rihanna.

Uh, same old love Selena.

Julia Michaels issues.

You just did moves like Jagger.

This is insane. This is amazing.

You're helping me break ground.

This was a big idea from Benny. Benny wanted to go over a lot of the demos. And one of the pieces that is really important to me for this series is, of course, to shine a light on the people and stories behind music, but it's also to inspire the next generation of creatives. Of course. And I think that this is something people can see how music is created.

I've heard glimpses of the diamond story, but I've never- But never, we didn't do it.

I'm ready.

Also, you really looked up to Eminem for the longest time, right?

I think it's going to drive a lot of people to be like, wow. Look, maybe I can do it too. Aw. You're so good at this. You inspire me. I get inspired. That means the world. You inspire me, though, Ben. Before we get into it, a lot has changed since our last interview, which, by the way, so many people loved. So many people loved our last conversation. So to do this again, dream for me.

By far.

That song was great.

Oh my gosh.

Well, I mean, you got engaged.

Yeah, this part's great.

Yeah.

That is insane. Before you even started playing the song, that was the part I was singing in my head.

amazing i know one of the songs we may go over um today i believe was the first time you might have worked with selena is that right yeah probably same old love same old yeah maybe yeah i think that might be the first time was that 2013 i looked it up i think it's like 2015 or so when did same old love come out

That's it. Wow. That's what happens. Do you also have diamonds?

There's this famous video of Sia playing it at some sort of conference.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Here we go. Here's the original version with that.

Wow.

There's no shine bright like a diamond.

It makes it so much better. Crazy, right? That's insane. If you're a musician, producer, or creative, then you know the struggle, carrying your entire setup on the go. And there's never enough space for it. You got two laptops, an iPad, an iPhone, chargers, headphones, AirPods, everything in between. And most bags don't fit it at all.

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purchase so if you need a new camera bag travel pack backpacker luggage check out nomadic.com slash wall to get yours today and thank you so much to nomadic for partnering with us at behind the wall and now back to one of my favorite interviews i've ever done betty blanco

I think it was 2016.

So they write, they're doing the song, they get it out, demo's there. How long does it take to get from a demo to a finished song then?

How long is a long time?

how it might be different every time, but like when you are starting a song and doing a song with an artist, like, do you come with beats? Do you like try to make it right on the spot? Do you let the artists like lead the way? Does it depend on the person?

Let's say you're doing a new session right now with an artist you really want to work with. Is there an example of an artist you really want to work with right now?

Let's say, yeah. Okay, let's say you're working with me.

What would you do?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Besides when you have a deadline and they're like, we need this song finished.

All I know is that Snoop Dogg and Katy were in the viral video happened.

Okay. Are you still that? Are you still flying or do you not fly?

i fly when i like do you hate it i i don't i did i kind of just like driving personally really yeah personally where do you live again arizona do you drive in arizona yeah like to the gym that's it like if i need to go somewhere else like scottsdale phoenix area oh it's so pretty over there yeah it's just very hot especially in the summer are you gonna move

I was literally supposed to move a couple weeks back.

What? What made you not want to? The day that I was supposed to move out here, everything started. And then my sublease got canceled because of everything that's happened.

need to find another do you want to be out here every time i come out here more exciting stuff like this happens and i feel like like i've been in arizona all my life so it's probably time yeah i feel like if you're out here you'll be doing these every day probably it's crazy i don't even know how you do this many from being in arizona it's such a quick flight though

Yeah, here over Arizona to Burbank was 54 minutes.

Isn't that crazy?

You've driven to where?

Really? You've been to Arizona?

For like what?

You drive from California to New York?

Yeah, but that's a cool story. Yeah, but that's- And also it was filmed.

How many times have you done the boat?

What do you do on the drives to New York?

Oh, that sounds enjoyable. That sounds better than a flight.

Okay.

How did this beat come about? How did you, what did you do for this?

I love this.

What I find interesting is a lot of these songs have that, you were playing it earlier, I forgot which one it was, but it was like just the basis of the parts of, and it was like the actual syncopation, but not the words.

It's like the melody, and then someone comes in and top lines it.

That's a crazy song to be on the toilet for.

Wow.

Okay. I'm, I'm an Ableton user. Can you explain for an Ableton user?

Yeah.

Clearly it worked.

Do you find that like tempo really impacts a song?

Do you, so last time we talked about like how you make like different food for different artists. Yeah. What is like, do you find that like certain artists like different food? Like do you make a specific food for?

I am a big, my mom makes this really incredible chocolate chip pumpkin bread.

Made by my mom specifically, yeah.

That's crazy.

You're a very like- very personable kind of like person just like personable kind of person yeah um the the the other two songs how much time do we have left to do stuff so i know we have until 11 so 30 more minutes so then what do we who do we we have blah blah blah yeah we have edge here and divide also i mean you just have like so many so these were the songs that i was given but i mean like

You're, I mean, I'm fine to go over any of them.

That is crazy. I heard you say that.

Are you able to talk about the songs?

That's insane. First of all, I saw, I don't know if you said that in, no, I don't think I've ever really like dug into it. You guys wrote five number ones for other artists. I think so.

¶¶ ¶¶

I've heard it, but.

Incredible, by the way.

This was through a voice note that him recording?

You won't even know what this is yet. Watch.

Let me see if I even have this on.

I heard Ed say that he doesn't even remember writing that song. I remember he said that he got a text from Diplo that was like, or like from you or him. And like, we're thinking about playing this song out. And he's like, I don't even remember what that was.

Of course.

So it's like you have these moments

with julia yeah yeah yeah we made that was all made during that album like we made i think we have i think we have five that's the day y'all wrote dive too yeah that was the day we wrote that i know it's crazy it's so crazy i have a dumb question yes what okay you have like east side 1.0 4k 4j yeah what's your organization process like and then what does that mean

Just think about it.

that you do that as well, right? You're able to listen to someone and come up with an idea in real time.

We can always take this out if this is not something that you want to leave in. But for Julia, Julia was like one of the first interviews I ever had. Told me the story of Sorry. She told me that the same day that Sorry hit number one, they wrote the song. But Same Old Love also went number one on radio the same day.

And she was saying that. But then she talked about like all these artists who wanted it. And there's only one that's leaked onto... YouTube by another artist.

Charlie XCX. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who was the person who helped co-write Same Old Love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is crazy to think about. Was there something about that demo and that song that everyone wanted issues from? It was just like...

Watch, I don't even know when it comes. Hold up, oh yeah.

Yeah, it's, I feel like we live in such a, like an artist dominated part now versus how it was back in the day, which is amazing.

And you're excited to work with all of them?

Is there anything else you want to ask me before we wrap up?

When you said that earlier about animals, by the way, taking eight years, I saw Timbaland said pony.

He held on to that song for eight years.

Y'all have that in common. That's insane. So earlier when you were talking about like making a song with somebody, you go through the process of like connecting with. So, okay, here's what it sounds like actually is happening. You have a conversation with the actual artist. They are telling their story. You guys are like forming an actual genuine connection.

You guys have an actual genuine conversation. And it sounds like whatever you're talking about oftentimes becomes the song. Yeah, of course. Always. Do they... Okay, so I was in a session with somebody and I tried this process.

What would you do?

We did this whole thing because like Tranter told me about this too with other things like that. And they wanted to stop writing because they felt it became too real. Yeah, stuff like that happens.

Wow. So, okay. Going back to what we said at the beginning with this goal of like helping the next musical creatives, a lot of people who are watching right now, probably probably are, you know, making music, want to be songwriters, want to be producers, want to be artists.

I think it's really cool because, I mean, this has never really been done before, like to a certain extent, but not to this level. So first of all, thank you so much for letting us go behind the wall and showing the demos of the songs.

What is your advice to anyone out there who wants to, one, start making music or wants to start making music their full-time thing?

For all the moms out there that are watching this right now.

When I started the series, it was to shine a light on the people and stories behind music, but it was also to inspire every underdog to go for. I used to work, told you this last time, I used to work at a call center before that, like graduated without a job, wanted to do music, wanted to create videos, wanted to do interviews, wanted to do all these things. I made a vision board.

Put you, Tedder, Williams, John Williams, Hans Zimmer, so many, Chris Martin, so many people I wanted to talk to, collaborate with, meet. And I put it on the wall. I started making videos like crazy every single day with my shitty little iPhone and recording my 2015 MacBook Pro. And then after six years, and actually yesterday, I started to tear up, like tears of joy, like about this specifically.

Because I couldn't believe that something like this was able to happen something that like this to me like has always been a dream so the fact that i'm able to do this like for a living is incredible it's crazy and you like i think i think over time a lot of people have You're going to get like a million no's, but all you need is like that one person to believe in you.

And luckily I had like five of my first interviews, people who like are some of my musical heroes, like Julia, like Tranner, like Tedder, like you. So I just wanted to say thank you again for doing this. Thank you. Thanks for letting us go behind the wall once more. We did it. We went behind the wall. To see the incredible demos of the songs. What's this? You always give me a little thing.

This is something people can see how music is created. I think it's going to drive a lot of people to be like, wow, look, maybe I can do it too. Aw, you're so good at this. Me and Ed Sheeran. You just wrote five number ones for other artists. Yeah. Are you able to talk about the songs? Yeah.

Because you're just the king. You're just a legend. And I appreciate you every single time.

And this is probably going to drop around the time of your new project.

Thank you.

Oh my gosh. Hi. Here we are again with the one and only, one of my musical heroes, Benny Blanco. Where am I supposed to look? There's so many cameras.

It was like Jagger was the song you were trying to make as your idea.

So this one's on me, this one's on you, this one's on there, and this one's on us.

And we're back. Benny. It is such an honor to see you again.

Wow.

Is it true that you have a Pokemon theme song ringtone?

Yes. Gotta get that car, pick it up. phone is ringing and jason page is singing pick it up oh is it your best friend or your mom's calling again pick it up gotta get that a call for you what the hell are you gonna do answer it or put it on mute pick it up gotta get that call yeah very silly i love it be a good thing for people to do

That's funny.

I hear you're also creating, I don't know if you already have, but creating a 25th anniversary remix of the song?

I was going to say, I don't know if you could compare this to anything else, but Bohemian Rhapsody is probably one of the closest.

It comes out in 1998. When's the next time do you revisit the song? I revisit it in 2012. Actually, I revisited it right before then. Because there was a viral video with Smosh.

It's not just all those songs, but I was looking into it. We also got Domino's. Yeah. Domino's Pizza delivers. You also were a part and recording of, I believe it's the 30th anniversary.

Is that the first time you heard yourself on the radio?

How involved are you with Pokemon from 1998 up until now?

So everything from 2016 on was not with Pokemon itself, but with Pokemon as like a community.

Pokemon Go was massive.

How does it feel that this community is kind of giving you this platform to be able to, you know, push the boundary of what's possible?

You created a fake jingle tape and you knocked on doors and that led to this? That's one of the craziest stories I've ever heard.

incredible and now 25 years later they are kind of putting an ending or a wrap-up towards ash and pikachu's story is there anything you're planning on doing for for that i'm just investing more in the pokemon ecosystem ash and pikachu might be over for a minute but uh pokemon certainly isn't and the theme song certainly isn't and i expect

I think it's very difficult nowadays to take something creative that you love and turn it into something that can sustain yourself financially, creatively, personally, professionally. Is there any advice you have for someone who wants to get inside of music or creative or anything like that?

Which by the way, is one of my favorite stories. The fact that you, the way that this happened was you created a fake jingle tape and you knocked on doors to give them the jingle tape, and that led to this? Correct. That's one of the craziest stories I've ever heard. You created your own success.

You know, that was so good.

And was that the main way that... Jingle house session singers get paid in a sense.

and was there a big push to kind of benefit the the session singers the writers and people now because it seems like back in the day there was less willingness to give residuals for jingles and for no back in the back in the day you you got there was more residuals really mostly residuals because you could only put your your your commercial out on a major platform okay

Is there anything that you want to promote or push for?

But you know, one of my goals is to get like the full behind the scenes stories of the Pokemon theme song. So thank you so much for being a part of this.

And this is a thank you for you. What? The air tag didn't come in time. But early on, we had this thing called what's in the bag.

It will be coming, and I will get it for you.

And you can read that on your own time.

And we're out. Can you call it out?

Incredible. Pretty cool. But there's one song in particular that, you know. brought you to this point, and that's the Pokemon theme song.

I want to know the story of what led you to that, and then I want to know, how did you end up singing the Pokemon theme song?

That's right there.

Evian.

Did you just drop them off in a CD form?

I'm on the road to Viridian City.

is the man, the myth, the legend, the man who's been heard by almost everyone who has ever heard or ever watched a show, probably everyone in the world, at least in the United States, in Japan, across the world, Jason Page. The voice of a generation. I'm so excited to be here talking to you because your voice has just been such a huge part of our childhood, our adulthood, and our life.

I talked to one of the bands who did more of the recent one. Oh, cool. Echo Smith. They have the song Cool Kids. Cool Kids. Is it good? I still need to listen to it. Because yours is in my head at all times. It's stuck in there. I want to go back real quick because one of the goals I have is to try to tell the stories and like behind the scenes of the songs that really connected with us.

So talking to all these people, we're trying to go back and put everyone in the mind of what it was like to be in these sessions and what happened and kind of go into more detail. Tell me about you walking into the first session and what happened.

And the original tag was... Catch him if you can!

And the original tag was… Was it called a jingle at that time or was it called a theme song?

Just like Legomania.

Legomania. Subway eat fresh.

So they have that song and Catch Him If You Can. But they come back to you later to change it?

And improvise a whole bunch of... Gotta catch em all! Gotta catch em all! Gotta catch em all! Gotta catch em all! Gotta catch em all!

First of all, thank you so much for being a part of it. Thank you, sir, for being here. For anyone out there who may not know who you are, what are some of the projects and songs that people would know you from? Most notable.

I love it. Yeah. Working with those guys, did they have any notes for you at the time to change certain things? Did you come in and did you like do any random like, yeah, like any?

I. Would that lead to publishing?

Music is everywhere. Music is everywhere.

When you get nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea, Pepto-Max. Subway, eat fresh. I see a little silhouette of a can. Mountain Dew, Mountain Dew, time to do the slam dunk.

This song, Pokemon theme song, Gotta Catch Em All, one of the most famous songs ever. And I was doing some research on this because this is actually really cool. there are over 1,233 episodes of Pokemon. There have been over 24 different Pokemon theme songs.

And this Pokemon theme song, I looked this up, now don't officially quote me on this, but online it said, was only used in 79 episodes of the anime. Which is insane for that many episodes, this theme song to just live in the hearts of so many people. What does that mean to you as a singer after all these years? That's the earworm.

Was hast du gemacht, um dich zu differenzieren, um zu sagen, ich liebe die Art, wie du lachst, eine Song, die ich geschrieben habe, was werde ich jetzt tun?

Und es sah so aus, als ob die Leute, die Teil der Song waren, auch sehr unterstützend davon waren, zu sagen, dass du die Person warst, die es auch geschrieben hat. Ja, alle waren wirklich cool. Das ganze Team ist großartig. Ja, es ist wirklich interessant, weil auch Eminem und du haben so viele verschiedene Songs zusammen gemacht. Es sieht so aus, als wären es jetzt 15 bis 20.

Ja, ich habe die Zahl verloren.

Um so lange einen Partner zu haben, musst du wirklich miteinander verstehen, musikalisch, kreativ. Wie sieht die Beziehung zwischen dir und Eminem aus, wenn ihr in der Studio zusammen seid, Musik zu machen?

Du siehst aus wie die Art von Person, die sehr selbst ist.

Wenn du mit Em arbeitest, ermutigt er dich auch, dich selbst zu sein? Versus andere Künstler, die dich in eine Box legen oder so? Er hat mich immer sehr unterstützt, was ich tue. Er hat nie versucht, es zu verändern.

Wie fühlst du dich?

Es ist fast ein Billion Streams. Ja. Das ist verrückt.

Würdest du sagen, dass du als Skylar Grey und du als Holly zwei verschiedene Leute bist?

Das ist cool.

Liebst du einen über den anderen?

Was hat dich dazu gebracht, Skylar Grey zu wählen?

Aber das sind ein paar der Hits, glaube ich. Unglaublich. Du hast gesagt, dass du Wörterblock bekommst.

Kommt das oft noch? Was machst du, wenn du Wörter blockierst? Hast du Tricks oder Tipps?

If you're a full-time artist, producer, creative, you're probably always on the move. And I completely understand. Because I'm always traveling to do interviews. And I'm constantly living at airports, Airbnbs and hotels. And I always gotta use the same annoying public Wi-Fi. Where all my information is free for anyone to grab. Well, four years ago, I was so tired of this.

Ich habe einiges über VPNs recherchiert. Und ich habe meinen Lieblings-VPN, NordVPN, gefunden. Egal, wo ich bin, es funktioniert auf allen Geräten und ich kann bis zu 10 Geräte verbinden, was für mich toll ist, weil ich halb mein Leben auf der Internetseite ständig lebe.

Und außerdem lässt NordVPN deine Location zu jedem von 118 verschiedenen Ländern verändern, was mir viel geholfen hat, als ich im letzten Jahr den Prison Break wiedergucken wollte, als er nirgendwo sonst nicht vorhanden war. Aber ich könnte es auf einen anderen Streaming-Service bekommen, wenn ich meine Location in den USA verändere. This is actually true. This actually happened.

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And now let's go behind the wall once again. So you being in Oregon, getting sent the Love The Way You Lie Beat. What was your process? Do you remember like your process to write that song? Yeah. Tell me how it came about.

Love that.