Courtney Browen
Appearances
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, before we get into Anwar and Adal's connection, we have to talk about Anwar's influence. He was a very popular leader at this mosque. According to people who knew him, he had a unique way of connecting with the Muslim youth. And like we just mentioned, he helped influence some of the 9-11 terrorists. Now, by this point, Anwar had a wife and five children. He also had a mission.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
By 2003, it was reported that he started recruiting young Muslim men for jihadist campaigns in the Middle East. And in 2006, He and his family left the United States and traveled to Yemen. But while there, he would get arrested. During his first two years in jail, the FBI interrogated him multiple times about his possible connection to the 9-11 attacks.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But they were never able to prove that he was connected, despite being friends with two of the hijackers. But after his release from jail, Anwar became even more radicalized, and he started to share his radical beliefs through online blogs. He was described as charismatic and persuasive, and he gained a lot of followers.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
However, unlike the 1991 Luby's Massacre, this gunman was not some random man having a mental break. In fact, United States Army Major Nadal Hassan was a psychiatrist on the base, a man specifically hired to help soldiers with their mental health. Following this tragedy, many people started to wonder if the town of Killeen is cursed. First a mass shooting in 1991, then another in 2009.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Anwar's teaching actually helped influence a number of terrorists, including the July 7th bombings in London, the Toronto 18 Group in Canada, the Tsarnaev brothers who were responsible for the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing, some of the 9-11 hijackers, and Nidal Hasan, the mass shooter in this episode. So as you can see, Anwar's influence was very widespread.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
In his blogs, he often advocated for violence against the United States. One of his lectures was titled, 44 Ways to Support Jihad. Now the definition of jihad is holy war. It's also defined as a quote, struggle or fight against the enemies of Islam. But the word is often associated with terrorism. And in Anwar's lectures, he wrote the following,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now by 2006, Anwar was already living in the Middle East, fully devoted to spreading his beliefs through his blogs. But years earlier, back in 2001, he was living in Virginia, attending the same mosque as future mass shooter, Nidal Hasan. Like we mentioned earlier, Nidal and his family were never really religious. They identified as Muslim, but they never practiced it.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
However, after the death of his father, Malik, both Nadal and his mom Nora leaned more into their religion. Then sadly, just a few months after his father died, Nadal's mother would be diagnosed with cancer. Now this was supposed to be a happy time for Nadal. He had just been accepted into medical school at the Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But after his mother's cancer diagnosis, Nadal decided to put that on hold and move back home to care for his mom. For the next few months, Nadal dedicated his time to taking his mother to the doctor and going with her to their local mosque. And after a while, his love for Islam grew. Nadal even started praying five times a day and he memorized sections of the Quran.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But unfortunately, on May 30th, 2001, his mom, Nora Hassan, passed away. at the age of 49. Once again, Nadal was devastated. He had lost both of his parents in just a few short years. But someone who brought him a lot of comfort during this time was Anwar al-Awlaki, who was a leader at their mosque. Anwar even presided over Nora's funeral.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, interestingly enough, when Nadal's father died a few years back, his funeral was held at a non-denominational funeral home as they weren't religious at the time. But with Nora's funeral, Nadal really felt the love of his Muslim community. Her funeral was held in this huge mosque where hundreds of people came to pray for her and pay their respects.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
However, in the weeks after his mom's death, Nadal began to worry about her soul and the afterlife. You see, as he learned more about his religion, he learned that there are strict rules Muslims have to follow. As we mentioned earlier, His family owned a convenience store that sold liquor. Because of that, Nadal became paranoid that his mom didn't make it into heaven.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But as we dug deeper into this town, we discovered so much more about the Killeen curse. And a lot of it seems to center around the Fort Hood military base. So for the next few weeks, we are going to do a series about all of the tragedies that have occurred here, starting with the Fort Hood Massacre. I'm Courtney Brown.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
According to Catherine Pope's program on extremism, a case study in the lone actor terrorism, quote, Hassan's parents owned a convenience store that sold alcohol, which Hassan came to believe was forbidden by Islam. The sin of selling alcohol would, in Hassan's mind, damn his mother to an eternity of burning in hell. This religious interpretation was one he believed to be entirely literal.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
His mother would spend an eternity burning in a pit of fire." So this was a very pivotal moment in Adal's life. From this point on, it seems as if he was trying to erase his family's sin by dedicating his life to his religion.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
In addition to this, Nadal also faced a lot of discrimination after the 9-11 attacks for being Muslim. People would call him slurs. And on one occasion, according to the book, Death on Base, Nadal found a diaper on his car with a message that read, quote, this is your headdress, end quote. So Nadal felt very isolated in America, but someone who always brought him comfort
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
someone who understood his struggles was Anwar al-Awlaki, who was growing more and more radicalized. But during this time, despite Nadal's growing hatred towards America, he decided to move forward and finally start medical school. After all, if the military was going to fully pay for his education, he might as well take advantage of it.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And it's here where he decided his focus was going to be on psychiatry. Now, in the beginning, he thought he wanted to do more hands-on medical care, but he quickly learned that blood made him squeamish. In fact, at one point, he was required to attend a live birth, and during it, he fainted. So that's when he decided on psychiatry. And of course, he excelled in school as he always did.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But his studies weren't the only thing he was focused on. During medical school, he also fully entrenched himself into Islam. which caused a pretty big internal struggle. Nadal had a career in the military, the very military who was invading Iraq and Afghanistan. And Nadal took it personally. These attacks were against his own people, his own religion.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
At some point, he even petitioned to leave the military early, but his request was denied. A few weeks later, he sent a second petition trying to leave early. And this time, he even said he would fully repay them for all of the money they spent on his tuition, but again, it was denied. So it's here where he decided to just wait it out until his time was up.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Financially, that was his best option, but no one truly knew just how dangerous this was. Nadal was growing more and more radicalized in his religion, and he was serving a country that he no longer honored. And not only that, but he was involved in an organization that he believed was fighting against his own people.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
After graduating from medical school in 2003, Nadal started his residency at the Walter Reed Army Hospital in Washington, DC. And according to his colleagues, He was very vocal in his beliefs about the wars in the Middle East. He would even vent to coworkers and patients about how he felt.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
According to one student named Naomi Sermon, Nadal approached her one day and asked if she knew anything about Islam. When she told him that she didn't know much, he started scolding her. He even told her that she would one day burn in hell. Naomi would later say that she felt very uncomfortable and she made it a point to avoid Nadal during the remainder of their residency.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But what was really concerning is that he was entering the field of psychiatry. A psychiatrist is supposed to make people feel safe and understood.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, during his residency, Nadal actually had to counsel soldiers who were coming home from Iraq, many of whom were suffering from PTSD. However, in these sessions, he started talking to the soldiers about Islam and it almost felt like he was preaching to them. When his supervisors found out about this, he clearly got into some trouble.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
They even had to have meetings with him about, quote, inappropriately discussing religious topics with his assigned patients, end quote. But after a while, it was time for Nadal to take his mandatory United States medical licensing exam. However, he didn't show up for it, which resulted in him being put on probation. And from here, Nadal began neglecting his studies. He started skipping classes.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He would show up late to morning reports, which again, were mandatory. It was obvious to everyone that Nadal no longer wanted to be a top student. He also failed to show up for the mandatory psychiatry resident in-service training examination. His supervisors tried to work with him. They had multiple meetings to discuss his regression, but Nadal didn't seem to care.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
His fellow classmates described him as, quote, disconnected, aloof. paranoid, belligerent, and schizoid." And it wasn't just his colleagues that noticed a change in him. His family members noticed too. At family gatherings, Nadal seemed obsessed with the topic of Islam. He even scolded his cousin for not being a dedicated enough follower
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
This same cousin would eventually bring his girlfriend over for Thanksgiving, and Nadal started yelling at him in front of everyone. He thought it was disrespectful for the unmarried woman to leave her home with a male guardian. Now following this, his cousin completely cut off all contact with him.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Over the years, he just wasn't the same person anymore, and his growing conservatism towards Islam was driving a wedge between him and his family.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, I do want to point out that we are not talking poorly about anyone's religion. These are just the facts of the case. And it's important to talk about them considering Nadal will one day murder 13 people in the name of Islam. But I also want to point out how unsettling it must have been for Muslim Americans during this time.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Most Muslims are good and peaceful people who don't want to hurt anyone. They just want to practice their religion in peace and be left alone. I can also empathize with the fact that during this time, it had to have been hard for Muslim Americans knowing that their family was fighting a war against their people in the Middle East.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, thousands of people died in 9-11, which was absolutely devastating for our country. But in turn, hundreds of thousands of civilians were directly killed
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
because of the wars in the middle east then indirectly due to the impact of the war it's been reported that millions of people lost their lives so for muslim americans watching that unfold i know it had to have been difficult and sadly in response to all of that a number of muslims would become even more radicalized including nadal hassan but it goes without saying that taking matters into your own hands and gunning down over a dozen people is never the answer
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And unbeknownst to everyone, Nadal Hassan was on that very path. But despite his growing radicalization, Nadal's performance in the army at this time was outstanding. They even noted, quote, must promote, best qualified, a star officer. And in 2007, he would officially complete his residency at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
From there, he would start his fellowship in preventative disaster psychiatry. Ironically, the program was created to train psychiatrists to use their skills to help with mass casualties, terrorist attacks, and natural disasters.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And after a while, Nadal even started having problems with people at the mosque. By 2008, he started speaking with them about the idea of jihad, and they were all a little thrown off. One member stated, quote, I was trying to modernize him. I tried my best. He used to hate America as a whole. He was more anti-American than American. "'I couldn't get through to him.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
"'He was a typical fundamentalist Muslim.'" So when Adal failed to find anyone to agree with him at the mosque, he turned to the internet to vent his frustrations. According to Death on Base, Adal found an article on Scribd.com that reprimanded suicide bombers. And he posted, "'Suicide bombers whose intention "'by sacrificing their lives "'is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers.'"
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard, that would be considered a strategic victory, end quote. For Nadal, anyone who sacrificed their lives to defend their religion died an honorable death. Now, surely, if anyone in the army would have seen these online posts, they could have taken action, but no one did.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And unbeknownst to everyone, Nadal was still communicating with Anwar al-Awlaki. In fact, between December of 2008 and June of 2009, Nadal sent him 16 emails. Now by that time, Anwar was already living in Yemen and he was on the terrorist watch list.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
So essentially, someone in the FBI looked up Nadal's name and finally saw that he was in the U.S. military. But for whatever reason, he was labeled as a, quote, communications officer. So from there, a message was sent to Nadal's home base in Washington, D.C. that read, quote, the individual is likely an army communications officer stationed at Walter Reed.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
I would recommend that this not be disseminated as an intelligence information report, since he may have access to message traffic. If this needs to get to the military, Washington field office might have to do it internally. While email contact with Aulaki does not necessarily indicate participation in terrorist related matters,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
"'Aulaki's reputation, background, "'and anti-US sentiments are well known. "'Although the contents of these messages "'were not overtly nefarious, "'this type of contact with Aulaki would be of concern "'if the writer is actually the individual "'identified above.'" Now, Nadal had no idea that the FBI had intercepted his emails.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And even though Aulaki hadn't responded back to him, he continued to send him emails,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
It seems as if Nadal was growing increasingly impatient with Aulacchi's lack of communication. So he fired off two more emails on the same day. The last one saying that he had created a $5,000 scholarship for anyone who could write the best essay titled, Why is Anwar al-Aulacchi a great activist and leader? Now, Nadal clearly hoped that flattery would catch the attention of Aulacchi.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And luckily for him, it did. On February 19th, al-Awlaki replied, quote, Nadal, I pray this message reaches you at the best state of Iman in health. I don't travel, so I won't be able to physically award the prize, and I am too embarrassed, for lack of a better word, to award it anyway. May Allah assist you in your efforts. Your brother, Anwar al-Awlaki, end quote. So in the end,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Aulaki basically rejected Nadal's idea of rewarding someone with a scholarship.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
From here, Nadal would never receive another email back from Awlaki, but Nadal did continue emailing him. Eventually, after several ignored emails, Nadal wrote to him again, saying that he knows he's busy, but to keep his contact information for any future communication. And that was the end of their correspondence.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
So even though the FBI had intercepted their communication to each other, they didn't find the emails threatening, nor did they believe that they hinted at a future terrorist attack. So the emails were never shared with the Pentagon or anyone outside of the Joint Terrorism Task Force.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Sadly, if the task force would have interviewed Nadal's coworkers and superiors, they would have learned about his concerning behavior at the time, and they likely would have intervened, That never happened. Now, clearly, in hindsight, this was a huge mistake. And surprisingly, in May of 2009, Nadal was even promoted to major.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, that July, the army decided to send him to the Darnell Army Medical Center at Fort Hood. Before leaving, he was evaluated.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And in his report, they stated that he had, quote, had a keen interest in Islamic culture and faith and has shown capacity to contribute to our psychological understanding of Islamic nationalism and how it may relate to events of national security and army interest in the Middle East. and Asia, so they viewed him and his Islamic interest as an asset.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But he did have one negative mark on his report. It was a failed fitness test. But other than that, there was nothing that indicated Nadal was a ticking time bomb, at least not on paper. No one had any idea that Nadal had spent years plotting an attack of violence against the United States military.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
As soon as he arrived in Texas, Nadal also started attending the Islamic center of Killeen. He also made sure to arrange his work schedule so he could pray five times a day at the mosque. Now there were not a lot of Muslims in Killeen, so The mosque was small, but Nadal did occasionally socialize with its members.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
However, they later reported that he was a very private person, which is pretty much how everyone described him. A few of his neighbors at Casa del Norte would sit outside the apartment in the evenings, socializing and drinking beer. And when they saw Nadal come home, they would try and strike up a conversation with him, but it was clear that he was very introverted.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Soon enough, the residents at Casa del Norte began referring to him as number nine, since that was his apartment number. Now at work, Nadal was given a spacious office on the fifth floor in the Behavioral Health Department at Darnell Medical Center, but he would see his patients at the Resiliency and Restoration Center, which was a psychiatry clinic beside the hospital.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
According to Death on Base, the R&R Center at Fort Hood was the busiest outpatient psychiatric clinic in the world. And Nadal had the privilege of working there, which is a scary thought, because a few weeks after arriving in Killeen on August 1st, Nadal went to a store called Guns Galore, where he purchased an FN 5.7 semi-automatic handgun, magazines, and a lot of ammunition.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Salesman Frederick Brannan would later say, quote, "'His initial interest was in the most high-tech handgun we had.'" I wasn't the salesman talking to him that day, but the guy who did showed him the gun and gave him some information on it. Major Hassan left and came back the next day. He had researched the gun on the internet. He wanted to buy that one, an FN57.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
We showed him how to load it, how to operate it, take it apart for cleaning, and so on. He videotaped everything on his cell phone so that he could review it later. I've never seen anyone do that before. But the impression that we had was that he was an army major and that he wasn't into any kind of sports like target shooting. This was something new and he was interested in doing it all right.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
I don't want to use a term like egghead, but when you have somebody who has absolutely no experience with something and they decide to get into it, they're immediately in over their head and they do things to try and catch up. That's what he did, so we went along with it." End quote.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Soon enough, it seemed as if Nadal had a pretty good routine in Killeen, Texas. Every morning, he left his apartment around 5 a.m., went to the mosque for prayer, and then he grabbed breakfast at the local 7-Eleven convenience store before arriving for a shift at the Darnell Medical Center. But things would only get worse from here.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
On August 16th, his apartment complex informed him that someone had vandalized his Honda Civic. One of Nadal's neighbors, a man named John Van D. Walker, was walking outside of the apartment complex when he noticed Nadal's car with a bumper sticker that read, quote, Allah is love.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Apparently, the bumper sticker offended John, so he decided to rip it off the Civic and then used his own car keys to scratch it up. When Nadal found out about this, he immediately called the Killeen Police Department, and ultimately, John Van D. Walker was arrested for criminal mischief. Now, this is clearly a hate crime and completely unacceptable, and sadly,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
This wouldn't be the only instance where Nadal was targeted. He also had his car keyed at work, and it was very clear that it was due to his ties with the Islamic community. Now, moving from Washington, D.C. to a conservative town in Texas was an adjustment, to say the least. He was definitely not as accepted here.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
However, Nadal told colleagues of his that he forgave the people who did this to his car.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But in October of 2009, Nadal started having more problems at work. At the RNR center, he treated someone with severe PTSD, so much so the individual had to wear restraints. The protocol was that the patient had to keep the restraints on during their session, but for whatever reason, Nadal removed them.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Soon enough, the patient started acting out and a code green was alerted on the intercom system. When assistants arrived, They realized that Nadal had not followed instructions, nor had he performed any type of routine assessment on the patient. So later that day, his superiors confronted him. And Nadal's reaction was not what they expected. Apparently, he completely lost his temper.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He started shouting at his superiors, telling them that if he was ever deployed overseas, everyone would regret it. it was becoming clear that Nadal was not cut out for this job.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
For months, soldiers would come into his office, sit down in a chair, and open up to him about the most horrible experiences you can imagine, often involving mass amounts of murder that they witnessed overseas, or even murders that they committed themselves.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
When soldiers arrived at Fort Hood, they would go through a rigorous 10-week training program, preparing them for future combat. The base was used for tank operation training, live fire exercises, simulations, and combat aviation. And after their 10 weeks of training, many of their soldiers then went on to countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. But back then,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, normally, if you tell a psychiatrist that you've killed someone, they have to immediately report it to the police, but the military is different. It's the one place where you're allowed to kill people. So many of the patients that Nadal saw were haunted by memories of death and bloodshed. PTSD had completely taken over their lives. And they came to these therapy sessions to get help.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
After coming into his office, they would tell Nadal about how they were forced to murder Iraqi and Afghani soldiers. There were also graphic stories where civilians and even children were killed. These soldiers would tell Nadal about the images they saw while they were out there and how the images played like a slideshow in their minds. They were vulnerable about what they were going through.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But instead of keeping things professional like a psychiatrist is supposed to do, Nadal would become enraged. In fact, in one instance, He even sent an email to his superiors stating that some of his patients should be prosecuted for war crimes. Eventually, they responded to him and essentially told him that that wasn't going to happen. So from there, Nadal attempted to go up the chain of command.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
On October 23rd, 2009, he wrote to his superior, Lieutenant Colonel Dr. Ben Phillips, about the atrocities going on in the Middle East. The email read the following,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Another email would be sent on November 2nd, where Nadal disclosed the name of the soldier who had reported the fuel incident, followed by two more reports of soldiers who had killed Iraqi civilians. And as you can imagine, when Nadal's superiors found out that he was going up the chain of command,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
People were actually excited to do their basic training at Fort Hood. It was even nicknamed the Great Place due to its reputation of taking care of their soldiers and their family members. The base offered great healthcare, schools, housing, entertainment. It was a place that people were proud to call home. That is until November 5th, 2009.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
They were furious, so much so that during one of his therapy sessions, Lieutenant Colonel Ben Phillips angrily marched into his office with deployment papers and told Nadal that he would be deployed to Afghanistan in early December with the Combat Stress Control Reserve Unit.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Interestingly, Lieutenant Colonel Ben Phillips even wrote Nadal a good review so that his new commander in Afghanistan would be thrilled to have him there. The review read the following.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
When Nadal learned that he was being deployed in the Middle East, he was not happy. Throughout his career, he had heard the horrors of what went on over there, and he didn't like the thought of being placed in a war zone. Some of his patients had even told him stories about how children would have bombs strapped to their bodies.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
and how the US soldiers there had no choice but to shoot the children dead to save themselves. And the thought of being surrounded in a place where Muslims were being unjustly killed was horrific. But even worse, his biggest fear was that he would have to fight against his own people. At least here in America, he didn't have to see it firsthand.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
So the news of this deployment was worst case scenario for Nadal. Following this, he went to the mosque where he told his members to pray for him. According to his friend, Duane Reasoner, Nadal felt like he was supposed to quit, saying, quote, in the Quran, it says you're not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christians.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And if you were killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell." However, there was nothing he could do to change their minds. His deployment was already set in stone. But for Nadal, this was a sign from God. He had been thinking about carrying out an attack on the US military for quite some time now. And in his mind, This was confirmation.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But throughout the next few weeks, he struggled on the details of the attack. He went back and forth trying to figure out if he should attack the soldiers at Fort Hood or if he should just wait until he got to Afghanistan.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
when 13 people lost their lives at the Soldier Readiness Processing Center. From that moment on, people no longer referred to Fort Hood as the Great Place. In fact, the darkness that infiltrated the base that day never really left. And since then, Fort Hood has been plagued by homicides, suicides, sexual assaults, and domestic abuse.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Nadal was supposed to leave for Virginia to visit his family on November 2nd, but he opted to stay in Killeen. While there, he sent several more emails about wanting to prosecute his patients for war crimes. He also used this opportunity to continue planning his attack.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, something that soldiers have to do before getting deployed is the soldier readiness program, which essentially ensures that they are ready for deployment.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
typically soldiers will go to an area on base called the soldier readiness processing center at this center they will make sure your life insurance is all set up just in case anything happens to you they'll check to make sure you're medically ready by giving you physicals dental and eye exams and even psychiatric exams to make sure you're mentally ready so in the weeks before nadal's set deployment he spent a lot of time at fort hood's soldier readiness processing center
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
When he would go, he would sit in the waiting room, observing his surroundings. Many of these soldiers sitting amongst him were also being deployed to the Middle East. These were the very soldiers who would be fighting against his own people. As he sat there, taking it all in, Nadal couldn't help but think about how this would be the perfect place to carry out his attack.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Not only was the room full of unsuspecting soldiers, but there was also a rule where everyone inside was prohibited from carrying weapons. So as he sat in the waiting room, Nadal studied the layout. He replayed the future attack in his head over and over again. And after a while, he was fully prepared to carry it out. Which brings us to November 3rd. On November 3rd,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Nadal went about his normal routine. He left his apartment at 5 am and went to the mosque for morning prayer. He then stopped at the 7-11 convenience store and ordered his usual cup of coffee and hash browns. Nadal was a regular here. And although he was usually very quiet and reserved, the owner couldn't help but notice how talkative Nadal had been recently.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
For the past few weeks, he would come in and start talking to him about his deployment. He would also talk about his frustrations with not being able to find a wife. And of course, he also talked a lot about Islam. After several weeks of these conversations, the owner said that he started excusing himself to the back room anytime he saw Nadal walk into the store.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But on this day, November 3rd, after leaving the 7-Eleven, Nadal went to Stan's shooting range and fired off 200 rounds from his gun into the silhouette targets. After that, He went to Radio Shack to get extra batteries for his red and green laser sights. To finish out his day, he stopped by the local Bank of America branch and closed his safe deposit box.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
While there, he also turned to the bank teller and said, quote, you'll never see me again.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But let's start with the tragedy that started this domino effect.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
A few months back, we told you the story of the 1991 Luby's mass shooting, which took the lives of 23 people. It was one of the worst mass shootings in American history, and it all took place in Killeen, Texas. But before the massacre that tragically marked the town, Not many people had even heard of Killeen. Back then, it was simply known as a quiet military town outside of Austin, Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
On the morning of November 5th, Nadal drove himself to the mosque for morning prayer, where he said goodbye to all of the members. He told everyone there that he was going home. No one knew exactly what he meant by this, but I'm assuming they thought he was leaving to visit family for the holidays. But from there, Nadal made his usual stop to the 7-Eleven to get coffee and hash browns.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
The workers said he was still dressed in his prayer attire, a long white robe, a prayer cap and white pants. According to the book, Death on Base, on the way out of the convenience store, he smiled at a customer and told them that something big was about to happen at Fort Hood and to quote, be prepared. After leaving the 7-Eleven, Nadal drove back to his apartment to throw out more items.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He also knocked on the apartment door of Patricia Villas. When she answered, she was surprised to see him. He had already given her a bunch of stuff the day before, but this time he handed her $60 and asked if she could clean his apartment for him. He told her that he wouldn't be coming back and that he didn't have time to clean it himself.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Patricia would later say that Nadal was pleasant and friendly. He even accepted two tamales from her when he learned that they contained no meat. But from there, at around 10 a.m., Nadal drove his Honda Civic out of the Casa del Norte parking lot for the very last time.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
After a few minutes, Lieutenant Colonel Ben Phillips actually called him back. When Nadal answered the phone, he started asking Phillips where he was located. He also wanted to know where his deployment paperwork was. Phillips told Nadal that he was in Arizona, but that his paperwork was all squared away and that he had nothing to worry about. But Nadal didn't seem satisfied.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
and he was really upset that Phillips wasn't at the base. Lieutenant Colonel Ben Phillips didn't understand why Nadal was so angry, but in just a few short hours, he would learn why. Now, it's never been confirmed that Phillips was one of Nadal's intended targets that day, but it's safe to say that he was. For months, Nadal had grown to hate him.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He was the very reason that Nadal was being deployed in the Middle East. But on this day, following their phone call, Nadal started pacing up and down the hallways of the office. He even glared at his coworkers who were sitting in the small kitchenette. they could tell that Nadal was angry. He was clearly on edge.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But from there, he left the building and went back to the mosque for his afternoon prayers. And as he left the mosque that day, Nadal seemed more calm and collected, more determined. After that, he went back into his office and individually wrapped 30 loaded magazines into paper towels before stuffing them into his shirt pockets.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He did this so that the clinking sounds wouldn't alert anyone of his plans. From there, he stuffed a .357 handgun into the front pocket of his army combat uniform and he put the FN-57 semi-automatic pistol into the waistband of his pants. Once he was fully armed, Nadal drove his Honda Civic to the Soldier Readiness Processing Center and he parked right outside of the building.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Before getting out of the car, he put his earplugs in to protect his ears from the monstrous gunshots he was about to hear. As he walked up to the building, he put a cell phone up to his ear, pretending to be on the phone so that no one would try and talk to him. Nidal Hasan was on a mission to commit a terrorist attack against the United States military.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And in just a few seconds, he would start the mass shooting that would kill 13 soldiers and injure a dozen more, all in the name of his religion.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
With the success of their businesses, the Hassans were able to purchase a modest two-story white home at 666 Ramada Road in Vinton. By the time they moved in, their oldest son, Nadal, was a senior at William Fleming High School. Nadal was described as a very serious student. He rarely ever socialized with students his age, and he never participated in extracurricular activities.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And when he wasn't focused on school, Nadal and his brothers were helping with the family business, busing tables or washing dishes. But even though he wasn't popular amongst his peers, people knew who he was. Nadal was the type of kid in class who didn't really talk, but when he did, it was typically a joke that would make people laugh.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
One of his high school history teachers would later say, quote, Nadal was a very bright, outgoing, and fine young man, end quote. In 1988, Nadal was approaching high school graduation, and with his good grades, many people were expecting him to go off to college. But Nadal had other plans. He wanted to serve in the United States Army.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, his parents were not happy with this decision, but Nadal was adamant. He wanted to serve our country. the country where he had been born and raised. So after high school graduation, he made his way to Georgia to train at the Fort Benning Military Base. And he seemed to like it. Once his training was completed, he was then sent to Fort Irwin in California.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And while there, he also decided to enroll in Barstow Community College. This would end up being a pivotal decision for Nadal because during that year, he really excelled in school. making straight A's in all of his classes, English, algebra, biology, and political science. After making the Dean's list, Nadal's military career was deferred and he decided to enroll in school full time.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But in 1991, there was a national spotlight on Killeen as the world learned that a gunman opened fire on innocent people eating lunch. It took years for the people of Killeen to heal from this tragedy. Years of looking over their shoulder when they walk into a room. Years of getting anxious when a loved one doesn't answer the phone.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But despite this, Nadal did well in school. He was an eager student who was very serious about his education. And when he wasn't studying, he was helping his parents with their family business. Like in high school, Nadal did not socialize with anyone. Every day, he would travel from his parents' house to Virginia Tech. Then after his classes, he would work, study, and spend time with his family.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But other than that, he didn't do much. Even when the biochemistry department would get together for outings at bars or restaurants, Nadal always refused the invitation. He just wasn't one to socialize. Dr. Bunce would later say, quote, Nadal seemed to me to be hardworking, but not an especially imaginative young man. He was not outgoing, but neither did he appear to be antisocial.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
I did not detect any pathological characteristics. He gave no indication of being particularly religious, or hostile." Now in 1995, after years of hard work, Nadal would graduate from Virginia Tech with a degree in biochemistry. And luckily for him, because of his time in the military, his entire college education had been paid for in full by the United States Army.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
A few weeks after his college graduation, Nadal was ready to get back into the military. And soon enough, he was placed on active duty in Fort Sam Houston, near San Antonio. This time, Nidal wanted to pursue medical training. Throughout his life, learning had always been his strong suit. And if the army was going to pay for his schooling, then why not become a doctor? Nidal Hasan had a good plan.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
The Luby's massacre left a deep emotional wound in nearly everyone who lived in the town. But 18 years later, just as the people of Killeen were finally healing, another tragedy would strike. This time, a gunman would walk into the town's military base. Fort Hood, and in just a few short minutes, he would take the lives of as many people as he possibly could.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Things were going well for him. But all of that would change in April of 1998, when his father, 51-year-old Malik, suddenly passed away from a heart attack inside the family home on Ramada Road. When Nadal learned that his father passed, he was devastated. Malik was the backbone of their family. From that moment on, everything seemed to fall apart for them.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Nadal's mother Nora was heartbroken after her husband's death. Eventually, she would even sell their home and move into a one-bedroom apartment in the Washington D.C. suburb of Kensington, Maryland. But she was really struggling. So much so, Nadal decided to move back home for a while to care for his mother.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And to help her cope with the loss, Nadal started taking his mom to the local mosque in Falls Church, Virginia. Now, throughout their life, the Hassan family identified as Muslim, but they were never really religious. Upon moving to America, they actually distance themselves from religion in order to fit in.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
However, death tends to bring people closer to God, and with the death of his father, they search for comfort at their mosque. But Nidal Hasan would find much more than just comfort in God. He would find a mentor named Anwar al-Awlaki.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
bullying kids in school. But now he wasn't just a bully. He was a cold-blooded killer living in their community. And it wouldn't be long until Kenneth McDuff was back in jail. On July 11th, 1990, when Kenneth was 43 years old, He was walking down Main Street in Rosebud, Texas, when he saw a black teenager walking by.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, we already know that McDuff is a vile human being, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that he was also a hardcore racist. On that day, when he saw the black teenager who was minding his business, McDuff decided to accost him, calling him the N-word. And the teenager rightfully stood up for himself. putting McDuff in his place.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But in response, McDuff chased him down the street and pulled a knife on him, threatening to stab him. And soon after this, he was placed under arrest.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
By this point, even Kenneth's attorney, Gary Jackson, realized that he was not a good person. So much so, he even filed a motion to have Kenneth's parole reinstated. Keep in mind, this is the same attorney who created the Justice for McDuff Incorporated. the one who fought so hard for him to get released. But of course, the parole board didn't even take a look at this incident.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Reporter Gary Cartwright explained, quote, "'What happened next was bureaucracy. There was no hearing, no testimony, no advocacy of any kind.'" the board made no formal decision to reinstate McDuff's parole. Some anonymous hearing officers simply decided that there was no reason to keep Kenneth McDuff locked up.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And so on December 18th, 1990, Kenneth McDuff was able to walk out of prison a free man for the third time.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Waco sex workers also said that Kenneth was known to make very strange remarks during sex. He would say things like, have you ever seen a set of balls like this on anybody? And interestingly, all of the girls said that he never got fully undressed during sex. He always opted to leave his boots on and there was very little intimate touching.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Instead, he enjoyed inflicting pain and anytime the girls resisted or told him to stop, he wouldn't. he would simply tell them, quote, it's only going to hurt for a little bit, end quote. Many of the sex workers said that they didn't even think Kenneth was able to climax. It seemed as if he faked a lot of his orgasms. Oh, and the girls he was with, they weren't allowed to orgasm.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The sex worker said that if they ever appeared to be enjoying the sex, Kenneth would get angry to him. The girls were simply there to please him, not the other way around. It was all about control for Kenneth McDuff. And soon enough, sex workers around Waco began to go missing.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Many people said that although Kenneth was in his 40s, he acted really immature. He was never good at making friends, so he always gravitated towards the younger, more impressionable men, men like his old accomplice, Roy Dale Green. When Kenneth would find someone who would listen, he would brag about all of the women he had been with, how good he was at robberies.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And around certain crowds, he would even talk to people about his murders. going into extremely graphic detail. At some point, he told someone that he didn't like to kill more than three people at once because it was too hard to dig multiple graves. He said that the best way to dispose of a body is to bury them in the ground and covered their graves with brush.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And apparently, he was just telling random men at his school this information. Soon enough, the residents at his dorm began calling him Mac or Big Mac. However, behind his back, they often joked that he was Crack Mac because of how much crack cocaine he did. Now, most people would later say that they didn't believe a word that came out of his mouth. But some people were really scared of him.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
There was something about him that left them feeling unsettled. Maybe it was the amount of drugs he was doing. Maybe it was the fact that he was always bringing sex workers back to his dorm. Whatever it was, their intuition was spot on because Kenneth was always preying on those around him. One of these people was a young man named Richard he met in his dorm.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Like many people in Kenneth's past, Richard was impressionable. And one day, Kenneth convinced him to use his federal student loan check so they could have some fun together. That night, Kenneth used Richard's money to buy some crack on Faulkner Street. He also rented them a motel room for the night and brought back a sex worker named Jennifer.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, Richard was new to all of this, but Kenneth wasn't. This was just a normal weekend for him. But according to Jennifer, the night quickly went awry. After smoking crack in the motel room, Kenneth got angry with Richard and attacked him. At some point, Kenneth was straddled over him and Jennifer watched as he pressed his thumbs down into Richard's eye sockets.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, luckily he was able to get away. And according to people on campus, Richard walked around that week with two black and swollen eyes. Kenneth would later tell people that if Jennifer hadn't been in the room that night, he would have killed Richard without a second thought. But this incident was so frightening, Richard actually dropped out of school shortly after.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And unfortunately, he never reported it to the police. But considering Kenneth's record, even if he had reported it, it's likely that nothing would have even happened.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
About a month after his DUI arrest, Kenneth McDuff would take the life of another young woman. It was October 10th, 1991. And like always, he decided to drive down the infamous Faulkner Street to pick up a sex worker. As he drove down the road, there were many girls out ready for a night of work. However, one girl named Brenda Thompson would never make it back.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Out of all of the girls on Faulkner Street, Kenneth had his eyes set on her. He quickly pulled up in his red pickup and ordered her to get inside. Brenda must have not heard the whispers about how dangerous Kenneth was because most of the girls knew to stay far away from him but not Brenda. So from there, she got into his car and the two took off down the road.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Brenda was described as a petite 37-year-old and her life hadn't been easy. She had substance abuse issues and had been arrested a number of times for petty crimes like DWI, trespassing, possession, forgery, prostitution, and failure to pay fines. And her life was lonely.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
It was said that she didn't have a lot of friends and she mostly kept to herself, which was the perfect kind of victim for Kenneth McDuff. Horrifically, shortly after getting into his truck, Kenneth attacked Brenda, tying her hands behind her back. Then once she was bound, he continued driving down the road. Brenda was terrified. And in that very moment, she knew that she was in grave danger.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But luckily for her, she suddenly saw blue and red flashing lights up ahead. It was a DUI checkpoint. Brenda looked over at Kenneth, who was visibly scared. After all, he had a girl tied up in his front seat. But he had no other choice but to stop. As he pressed the brake to his pickup, he quickly warned Brenda to shut her mouth. And seconds later, an officer walked up to his window.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But as soon as this happened, Brenda began to scream and kick at Kenneth's windshield. The officer quickly saw that her hands were tied behind her back. This girl was clearly in danger. But before they could intervene, Kenneth slammed his foot onto the gas pedal and took off down the road. From there, multiple officers hopped into their cruisers and started chasing Kenneth down the street.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But Kenneth had an advantage. He was pretty far ahead of them. Eventually, he turned onto a random street and turned his headlights off, still driving as fast as he possibly could. And somehow he was able to get away. From there, he drove about eight miles down Golson Road, a secluded wooded area in town. And as you can imagine, he was seething with rage.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He would later admit that he told Brenda, quote, bitch, you fucked up. Now, there is no telling whether or not he had set out to kill Brenda that night. But after that, he was more than ready to end her life. And sadly, he decided to take his time. After bringing her out into the wilderness, Kenneth raped and tortured her for nearly six hours.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Then when he was satisfied, he choked her to death with his bare hands. From there, he buried her body and covered it with brush. And sadly, Brenda Thompson's body would stay out there for seven whole years.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Gina Moore was widely known on Faulkner Street. She had a lot of friends. So when she didn't show back up, her friends were worried. One of her fellow sex workers was so worried, she even reached out to Gina's mom. Now Gina had left home about seven years prior, but Barbara Miller was determined to find out what happened to her daughter.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
In the days after her disappearance, Barbara went to Faulkner Street and started asking questions. And soon enough, she learned that Gina was last seen with none other than Kenneth McDuff. To Barbara's horror, she also learned that another sex worker, Brenda Thompson, had also gone missing after being seen with him. Deep down, Barbara had this sinking feeling
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
that her daughter was no longer alive. Now she tried to go to the Waco police department with this information, but of course they didn't seem very interested. Barbara would later say, quote, I think they looked down on her, just another prostitute and dope user, end quote. Because of this, Barbara had to do some investigating of her own.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The sex workers on Faulkner Street told her that Kenneth was a student at the nearby technical school. They were also able to give her his address. So from there, she and her husband drove to the campus to speak with him. They ended up running into McDuff outside of his dorm and they confronted him, but immediately he got really defensive.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Barbara said that he threw his hands up in the air and started yelling, you better not try and pin this on me. But right then and there, Barbara said that she had this feeling wash over her. She knew that this man had killed her daughter.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Even though the police weren't on his tail, the sex workers on Faulkner Street were. By then, word had spread that he had likely murdered both Brenda and Gina, and the girls were warned to stay far away from him. But sure enough, It wouldn't take long for Kenneth to make his way back over to Faulkner Street to find another sex worker.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
However, this time when he rolled down his window, the girls confronted him. "'What did you do with Brenda and Gina?' they asked. But once again, Kenneth denied any wrongdoing." "'I dropped the bitch off. "'I didn't even fuck her,' he said, "'but the girls knew better.'" Now, in the weeks after her daughter's disappearance, Barbara Miller was relentless.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
She continued to call the police department, begging them to look into Kenneth McDuff. And finally, they did. Now, when he was brought in for questioning, they still didn't make the connection that he was the man who sped away from police at the DUI checkpoint. They were simply there questioning him about Gina Moore. The Waco police officers would later say that Kenneth was very calm.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He admitted that he knew Gina and that he did hang out with her on the night of October 15th. But he said that he dropped her off after they finished their business. And of course, the police took his word for it and let him go. Following this, Kenneth felt invincible. And I can see why. No matter what he did in life, no matter how many rules he broke or lives he took, there were no consequences.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
In last week's episode, we talked about a man named Kenneth Allen McDuff. He grew up in the small town of Rosebud, Texas. And from a young age, Kenneth started showing signs of being a troubled individual. He was a bully, always picking on people smaller than him. As he got older, he liked to rob small businesses.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He was able to get away with whatever he wanted. And from here, he was able to continue on with his path of destruction."
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Which brings us to December 29th, 1991. It was supposed to be a happy time in Austin, Texas. It was cold out, Christmas had just passed, and usually around this time of the year, there's a joyful feeling in the air. but not this year. You see, a few weeks prior, on December 6th, 1991, a horrible tragedy had taken place in Austin, Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
It was the Austin Yogurt Shop Murders, which was the very first episode we ever covered here on Murder in America. Now, if you don't remember that case, it's about four teenagers Amy Ayers, Eliza Thomas, Jennifer Harbison, and her younger sister, Sarah Harbison. And in December of 1991, two of the girls were working at this yogurt shop in Austin, Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The other two girls were simply keeping them company as they finished up their nightly duties. But before the night was over, smoke started billowing out of the building. When first responders finally arrived, they quickly put out the flames. And at first they thought it was just an accidental fire. Maybe someone had left on a stove.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
In prison, Kenneth had earned the reputation of being a tough guy, the same reputation that he sought to have throughout his entire life. Kenneth was so aggressive in prison, they even let him serve as the block tender, which is essentially someone who runs their cell block. Now, this title is considered a privilege in prison. It means that inmates respect you and they fear you.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But as they made their way through the building, they made a gruesome discovery. In the back room of the yogurt shop were the bodies of all four teenagers. And this was clearly no accident. The girls had been raped, murdered, and their bodies were set on fire.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, interestingly, witnesses would later come forward saying that shortly before the yogurt shop closed that night, two men were seen sitting at a table near the cash register. They weren't even eating yogurt. They were just quietly sitting there. But sadly, to this day, the yogurt shop murders are still unsolved. It's one of the biggest mysteries in all of Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But in the week after the murders, the city of Austin was on edge. Someone had come into their community and took the lives of four innocent teenage girls. And it wouldn't be long until another girl's life was taken in Austin, Texas. And like with the yogurt shop murders, two men were responsible, Kenneth McDuff and Hank Worley. It was exactly 23 days after the Yogurt Shop murders.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The suspect or suspects were still at large and 28-year-old Colleen Reed was on edge.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
They listen to what you say. And it's typically only given to people who don't put up with anything. Now, by then, Kenneth had accepted the fact that he was going to live the rest of his life in prison. But by a string of luck, there was a Supreme Court case going on in 1972
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
On the afternoon of December 29th, Hank Worley was visiting his sister's house in Killeen, Texas. And all of a sudden, Kenneth McDuff unexpectedly showed up and asked if he wanted to go to Austin for the evening. Kenneth had even promised him a fun night of cocaine and speed. According to him, Austin at the time was the speed capital of the world.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
So Hank agreed to join him, but their night did not consist of drugs, but of something much darker. But that evening, the two got into Kenneth's car and headed to Austin. Along the way, they stopped to get some beer. And as they drank them, Kenneth bragged about kidnapping women and quote, using them up. He seemed to have been testing the waters for what he had planned for the evening.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, of course, he didn't have a victim picked out, but he was looking for one. He and Hank even drove around the University of Texas and Sixth Street, but no one seemed to have stuck out. However, eventually they would find their victim and it was none other than Colleen Reed.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
that would change everything it was the case of firman versus georgia and i won't go into the nitty-gritty of all of it but essentially it ruled that the death penalty was unconstitutional because it mostly affected minorities now kenneth was not a minority but this supreme court ruling immediately overturned all death sentences in the united states
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
When Kenneth saw Colleen washing her car at the car wash, he knew exactly what their night was going to entail. Immediately, he made a U-turn and drove back in the direction of the car wash. Hank would later say that Kenneth didn't tell him why he was stopping, but with no one around, Kenneth pulled into the stall directly next to Colleen.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
At the time, she was using a high-powered wand to rinse her car, and she didn't suspect a thing. Hank said that he watched as Kenneth got out of the car, and at first, he acted as if he was cleaning things up. He even grabbed their empty beer bottles and threw them away. But then, out of nowhere, Kenneth turned around and charged at Colleen. Before she could even react,
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Kenneth had grabbed her and was pulling her towards his Thunderbird. Fighting for her life, Colleen kicked and she screamed, but it was no use. Kenneth was much stronger than she was and he quickly threw her into the back of his Thunderbird. He then instructed Hank to go back there with her and make sure she didn't get away. And of course, Hank did as he was told.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Within seconds, the Thunderbird was back on the road, speeding away from the carwash. But something Kenneth McDuff didn't notice was that a family living across the street had heard Colleen's screams. When they looked in the direction of the car wash, they saw a tan Thunderbird speeding away.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now they weren't able to get a good look at the driver, but they did see that the passenger of the Thunderbird was a Hispanic male. And in that moment, they didn't know what to think, but they knew that whatever they saw wasn't good. They were so worried, they actually decided to drive over to the car wash to see what was going on.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And it's there where they found Colleen's abandoned vehicle with heavy soap studs still covering the outside. Inside the car, they found her purse, a set of keys, and a bag of groceries. And that's when they realized that they had just witnessed the kidnapping. So from here, they called 911. Meanwhile, Kenneth was driving far away from the scene. erratically speeding through the streets of Austin.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
In the backseat of the Thunderbird, Hank was still holding Colleen down as she pleaded for her life. Looking in the rear view mirror, Kenneth promised her, quote, if you just fuck, you'll be all right. Now, eventually, Kenneth pulled off the road and he and Hank switched spots. And as Hank drove the Thunderbird around Austin, Kenneth raped Colleen.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He would later say that she was raped orally, vaginally, and anally. Now at some point along the drive, Hank turned onto Ranch Road 620, which was about 23 miles away from the car wash. And he would later say that it's here where Kenneth became enraged. Apparently during the assaults, Colleen had tried to hurt him. So he started beating her in the back seat.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
From there, he grabbed her shoelaces and used them to tie her hands behind her back. Once she was immobilized, Kenneth lit a cigarette and then used the hot ember to burn Colleen's vagina. Hank continued driving down the road, hearing Colleen's cries the entire way. When they were about 60 miles away from the car wash, Kenneth ordered Hank to pull over in a secluded area of I-35.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Hank did as he was told. And the scenario you're about to hear will eerily mirror the exact same case that landed Kenneth in prison decades earlier, because just like with Roydale Green, Kenneth then ordered Hank to rape Colleen in the backseat of his car. And of course, Hank did as he was told, but he would later claim that he only did this to protect Colleen from Kenneth's brutality.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
meaning Kenneth's sentence was effectively changed to life in prison, along with the 88 other inmates on death row with him. Now for a lot of the victim's family members who were looking forward to their executions, this was a punch in the gut. Sadly, this also meant that under Texas law at the time, some of these offenders also now had a shot at parole.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
By the next day, Colleen's sister Lori tried to get in touch with her. She spent the morning calling her over and over again, but to no avail. Colleen wouldn't answer. And Colleen's boyfriend hadn't heard from her either. So it's here where Lori finally reported her sister missing. And soon enough, Austin PD was able to connect her disappearance to that car that was left at the car wash.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The night before, that family had reported a potential kidnapping, but the only leads they had was that a tan Thunderbird was seen speeding away from the scene. However, as you can imagine, APD had their hands full with the Austin Yogurt Shop murders. So for months, Colleen's case went unsolved. In the meantime, Kenneth McDuff was back in Waco acting as if nothing happened.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He visited his parole officer on February 18th, 1992. And according to him, Kenneth seemed to be doing well. He even noted that he was pleasant and optimistic about his future. But soon enough, he would take the life of yet another young woman.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, his next victim was actually someone he knew from an old job of his. The previous spring in May of 1991, Kenneth started working as a cashier at the local QuickPak convenience store. At the time, he thought it was a good way to get some money while he was in school. And it was. But like with any job, he had to be trained for the position.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And believe it or not, Kenneth McDuff was one of these people. Now, while in prison, Kenneth had earned his GED and completed 45 hours of community college credits. but he was not considered a model prisoner. In fact, at some point, he had even been caught smuggling and using drugs in prison.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And the man in charge of training him was an employee named Aaron Northrup. Now Aaron was described as a good guy. He was very patient with Kenneth, teaching him all the ins and outs of the job. But as Kenneth was training, he couldn't help but think about how the store lacked security, something he would use to his advantage later on.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now keep in mind, he had this job the previous summer, but he only worked there for about three weeks before he just stopped showing up. But a year later, on March 1st of 1992, Kenneth was ready to kill again. And that's when he decided to target an employee of the Quick Pack convenience store.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The victim in question was Melissa Northrup, who was actually the wife of Aaron, the employee who trained Kenneth the year before.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Melissa Northrup knew exactly who Kenneth McDuff was. She had met him the previous year when her husband trained him as a cashier. But unbeknownst to them, the entire time Kenneth had worked there, he had been taking notes on how easy it would be to rob this place. There were no security cameras, the workers didn't carry guns, and they typically had a good amount of cash on hand.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The quick pack was also surrounded by wooded areas and vacant office buildings. It was kind of in the middle of nowhere. Even further, Kenneth noted how Melissa often worked the night shift all by herself and he was attracted to her. He even told one of his acquaintances at school that she was quote, a little short, damn good looking girl too.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
So a year later, when Kenneth once again was having the overwhelming desire to kill, he decided that she would be his next victim. Now, earlier that night when Melissa's shift first started, her husband Aaron actually went to the store to visit her. And he did this pretty often. He knew how dangerous the job could be. So when he had some free time, he would come and keep her company.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Due to this, he had to be transferred to the Ramsey unit, which was specifically given to criminals who needed extra supervision. One of the assistant wardens would later say, quote, we consider McDuff to be extremely dangerous and a high escape risk, end quote. But even though he hadn't proven himself to be trustworthy, Kenneth McDuff would somehow get lucky.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But that morning at 1.30 a.m., Aaron decided to finally go home. When he pulled up to his house around 2 a.m., he called Melissa to let her know that he made it back. When she answered, Melissa complained about her job. She was tired of working so late and she wanted to find another job soon, especially because Melissa was actually two and a half months pregnant.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
She and Aaron were so excited to start this new chapter of their lives and things would definitely start looking up once she found another job. Now, after talking on the phone for a few minutes, she and Aaron said their I love yous and hung up. However, Aaron had no idea that this would be the very last conversation ever have with his wife.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Because around the time that they were talking on the phone, Kenneth McDuff was making his way over to the secluded quick pack in Waco, Texas. It was the early morning hours of March 1st, 1992. It was still dark out and most of Waco was fast asleep. Every once in a while, Melissa would see a car drive up, get some gas and then leave. but for the most part, her shift was pretty slow.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
To make the time pass, she pulled out a little notepad and began scribbling down potential baby names. However, as she did, she noticed a man walk up to the store a little after 3 a.m. Melissa stood up from behind the counter, getting ready to greet the customer. But as soon as he walked through the door, Melissa recognized him.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
It was Kenneth McDuff, the man who had worked with her the previous year. Oh, hi Kenneth. Melissa greeted him with a smile, but in that moment when she looked into his eyes, she was not met with a friendly hello. There was darkness within him, and Melissa could sense it immediately.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
In that moment, Kenneth ordered Melissa to open up the cash register, and fearful for her life, she did as she was told. Now there was only $252 inside, but... Kenneth took it. And from there, he looked at Melissa and said, quote, come with me. Now it's very possible that Kenneth had a gun with him and wanting to protect both her and her baby, Melissa did as she was told.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now Kenneth had actually parked his Thunderbird at a nearby hotel and he walked to the store. So once outside, he asked Melissa for the keys to her car, which was an orange Buick parked out front. After forcing her inside the car, he tied her wrist and ankles, and then quickly sped off down the road, looking for a place to take her. Along the way, Melissa cried.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
She asked Kenneth what he was doing with her, but he wouldn't give her an answer. However, deep down, Melissa must have known. She pleaded with him to spare her life. She told Kenneth that she was pregnant. But even that wouldn't change his mind. Eventually, he found a secluded spot on the outskirts of Dallas called Combine. It was heavily deserted and surrounded by farmland and gravel pits.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
After a while, he parked along a dirt road, forced Melissa out of the car, and he dragged her nearly 1.5 miles through the thick grass. The entire way, Melissa screamed for help. but no one heard her. And like with all of the other victims before, Kenneth raped and tortured her for hours before ultimately ending her life.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now at around 4 a.m., Melissa's husband Aaron called the store again. Like we mentioned, he called her a lot during her graveyard shifts. One, to keep her company and two, to make sure she was safe working all by herself. But this time when he called her, she didn't pick up. And I'm sure at first he assumed that she was just busy with a customer.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But after several more calls, Melissa still wasn't answering. So it's here where Aaron decided to drive to the store. When he pulled up to the quick pack that morning, he immediately felt his stomach drop. Melissa's orange Buick wasn't in the parking lot. He ended up going into the store and there was a customer waiting at the front. looking for an employee, but no one was behind the front desk.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Aaron quickly began to panic. He ran behind the counter and noticed that Melissa's purse was still there. And eerily, sitting on the counter was that notepad where she had doodled potential baby names. From here, Aaron frantically ran through the store, calling out her name. But there was no sign of Melissa. Then he noticed the empty cash register.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And at that moment, Aaron knew that something terrible had happened to his wife. So from there, at 4.37 a.m., he called 911.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, days later, on March 6th, one of the managers at the New Road Inn called the sheriff's department to report that a tan Thunderbird had been abandoned in their parking lot. When the police ran the license plate, they discovered that the car belonged to a missing and endangered person, Kenneth McDuff. And when they inquired further, they too discovered his lengthy criminal record.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And soon enough, they started to wonder whether or not his disappearance had to do with the missing pregnant woman, Melissa Northrup. After all, Kenneth's abandoned vehicle was right by the quick pack. where Melissa went missing. So finally, the police started to put two and two together. Now, because his vehicle was abandoned, they impounded and searched it.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And inside, they found Kenneth's wallet and a receipt from the quick pack where he had purchased gasoline shortly before Melissa was reported missing. And for the past week, they had been using all of their resources to try and find Melissa. After all, she was a pregnant woman who went missing from her place of work. They also had a bee on the lookout for her orange Buick.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And on the afternoon of March 6th, they would finally find it.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But the FBI had no idea just how much damage Kenneth McDuff had done, how many families he had torn apart. Over in Austin, Texas, Colleen Reed was still missing. She hadn't been seen or heard from in over three months. Her family had done everything in their power to try and find her. They passed out flyers attached with pink ribbon. Colleen's favorite color.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
They even contacted the Austin and San Antonio media outlets and offered a $5,000 reward. And soon enough, Colleen's mysterious disappearance caught the attention of the popular TV shows, America's Most Wanted and Unsolved Mysteries. They told the story of her car being abandoned in that car wash. how that family that lived nearby heard her screams.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But again, no one had yet connected her disappearance to Kenneth McDuff, and no one even knew where he was. Unbeknownst to investigators, after killing Melissa Northrup, Kenneth had fled the state of Texas. Now to this day, no one knows how he fled or if he had any help, but by March 10th, he was in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
That morning, he had walked into a Salvation Army homeless shelter and said that his name was Richard Dale Fowler, but he wouldn't stay at this shelter very long. Five days later on March 15th, he was in Kansas City, Missouri, checking into another shelter under that same name. Richard Dale Fowler. And while there, he actually got a job.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He was hired by a trash company that took trash out for the city. And he was paid about $190 a week. And while at this job, Kenneth made a friend. The man's name was Francis, and he was in need of a roommate at the time. So Kenneth moved in with him into his one bedroom apartment in Kansas City. And for the next few weeks, he lived there, assuming this new identity.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Back in Texas, investigators were searching tirelessly for Kenneth McDuff. They pulled long shifts, sometimes 18-hour days. Some even slept on the floor of the US Marshal's office in Waco. And over time, everything started to piece together. Investigators had located some of Kenneth's friends, and that's when they learned that he had spent Christmas Day in the Austin area.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And this piece of information was huge. because Colleen Reed had gone missing in Austin just a few days after Christmas. They also learned that the witness in her disappearance saw a tan Thunderbird leaving the carwash, which is exactly what Kenneth McDuff drove. But interestingly, the description the witnesses gave of the passenger did not match Kenneth's description.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The witnesses said that the passenger was a dark skinned, possibly Hispanic male. Now investigators were more sure than ever that Kenneth was responsible for Colleen's disappearance. They also knew that he was known to have accomplices. So investigators went to work trying to figure out who this Hispanic male was. And soon enough, they would find him.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
After speaking to some of Kenneth's friends, they learned that he had been hanging out with a man named Hank Worley. So from here, detectives went to pay Hank a visit. They ended up finding him at a hotel where he had been living with his 14 year old daughter. And at first, Hank denied ever knowing Kenneth McDuff, but the investigators were not going to let this go.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And although there were no documented records of any assaults, he was known to brag about raping and killing women. His first known kill was actually a triple homicide in 1966 when he was just 20 years old. Kenneth and his accomplice, Roy Dale Green, came across three teenagers who were hanging out at their high school's baseball field. And by the end of the night,
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Over the next few days, they continued showing up at Hank's hotel room, asking him questions. On their fifth visit, they noticed that Hank had had a few beers. So they tried to pull at his heartstrings. This time, one of the investigators told him, quote, Hank, you're hiding a kid killer. You know that? You're protecting a man who raped and brutalized and strangled a girl
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
not much older than your daughter over there. Picture her on the ground, a broomstick across her throat, crying out to you for help, begging you to speak out, to do what's right, to save the life of some other young girl. And according to investigators, it's here where Hank broke down. Once he gathered himself... he was finally ready to come clean. And Hank told the detectives everything.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He said that he and Kenneth had gone to Austin four days after Christmas to look for speed and cocaine. And that while they were there, Kenneth spotted Colleen at the car wash and abducted her. He said the two drove down I-35 while Kenneth raped and brutalized Colleen in the back seat. But as for what happened to her body, Hank wasn't sure.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
If you remember, Kenneth actually dropped him back off at his sister's house before he disposed of her. The last he saw her, Colleen was dead in the trunk of the Thunderbird. But Hank did tell investigators that when he asked Kenneth what he planned on doing with Colleen, he responded, quote, I'm gonna use her up. End quote, whatever that means.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But with this story, there was yet another victim added on to Kenneth McDuff's victim list. And sadly, there was about to be one more.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
So with the overcrowding, the Texas prison system was releasing thousands of inmates back onto the streets. And at first, it was just inmates convicted for drug crimes or petty theft. But over time, they even started releasing violent criminals. And in 1976, after only serving 10 years, Kenneth McDuff was placed on the parole list.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
So thankfully, another one of Kenneth's victims had been located. But over in Austin, Texas, detectives were still trying to find the body of Colleen Reed. For weeks, Hank Worley accompanied investigators on trips around Central Texas trying to find the locations of where Kenneth could have dumped her body. But according to Hank, he had no idea.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
It was also obvious that Hank was extremely worried about being tied to this crime. He told investigators that he did have sex with Colleen that night, but according to him, it was consensual, which was obviously a lie. So on April 21st, 1992, Hank Worley was arrested. Although Hank didn't murder Colleen himself, he was definitely a part of this crime.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, sadly, after Hank was arrested, his arrest affidavit was leaked to the public and the media released descriptions of Colleen's horrible last moments of life. which is unfortunately how her family found out what happened to her. They didn't get a call from the police. They had to learn through the news that Colleen had been raped and tortured.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But after this broadcast, Kenneth McDuff's name and face were plastered all over Texas. They warned the public that he was dangerous and there was immense pressure to find him, especially because more of his victims' bodies were being found around Texas. On April 26th, a Dallas fisherman named Jeffrey Hurd decided to spend his Sunday on a small boat in the town of Combine.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But after about three hours of fishing, Jeffrey noticed something odd floating in the water. As he paddled closer, he was horrified to discover... that it was a dead body. Jeffrey immediately left and found a phone to call 911. Soon after, Dallas police officers arrived and they found the highly decomposed body of Melissa Northrup and her unborn child.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Melissa's hands were still bound behind her back by shoestrings and a purple shirt had been pulled over her head. She had on a bra, but she was completely nude from the waist down. Floating near her body was a size 6 high top tennis shoe, with the laces gone.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now as with Valencia K. Joshua, Melissa's body was too decomposed to determine the cause of death, but it was ultimately ruled as homicidal violence. And this was not the outcome that anyone wanted, but... Sadly, it was what they expected. And Melissa's killer was still on the loose. On May 1st, 1992, America's Most Wanted aired a segment on Kenneth Allen McDuff.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And after the airing, tips started pouring into the hotline. including one from an employee at the Longview Disposal System in Kansas City, Missouri. The man stated that he worked with someone named Richard Dale Fowler, and he said that Richard oddly fit the description of the man featured in the show. So from here, the Kansas City police looked into Richard's record,
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And that's when they saw that he had been arrested and fingerprinted on April 10th for soliciting a sex worker. Immediately, Kansas City Sergeant J.D. Johnson called Bell County, Texas. He then faxed over Richard's fingerprints for comparison. And what do you know? They determined that Richard Dale Fowler and Kenneth Allen McDuff were the same person.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
From here, Sergeant Johnson phoned Kenneth's employer to find out where he was. And luckily for them, they learned that that day, Kenneth was assigned to garbage truck number 103. They quickly tracked down the truck's route and at 1.32 PM on May 4th, the team of officers finally found the truck. And within seconds, it was surrounded.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
That same year, his mother, Addie McDuff, began working hard to get her son's conviction overturned. Addy ended up hiring an attorney from Dallas named Gary Jackson. And Gary believed that Kenneth had been wrongfully convicted. He said that the true killer of the Broomstick murders was actually his accomplice, Roy Dale Green. So in 1979,
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Like with his previous arrests, Kenneth McDuff tried to get away, but he quickly surrendered once he realized he couldn't run. Finally, after several long years, his reign of terror had come to an end.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Gary Jackson typed up a 26-page letter to the chairman of the Board of Pardons and Paroles, and he had a new story of what happened. According to Kenneth, on the night of the Broomstick murders, Roy came to him stating that he wanted to commit a robbery, but Kenneth was on parole, so he claimed he didn't want any part of it.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
So while in Everman that night, Kenneth decided to wait in this burned out building while Roy committed the crime. And he even said that he let Roy use his car, but he wasn't involved. Kenneth stated that he patiently waited in that burned out building all night long until Roy finally came back to pick him up.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Surprisingly, Kenneth actually got time added on to his sentence because he had tried to pay a member of the parole board $10,000 to release him. But even with this, he was still being considered for parole. That alone should have proven that he was not rehabilitated. But once again, he continued to fall through the cracks.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, every time Kenneth was up for parole, the victims affected by his crimes would write letters to the parole board, begging to keep him behind bars. But by the late 80s, there was a lot of pressure to parole inmates due to overcrowding. They needed more space for incoming prisoners. Gary LaVerne reported in 1988, nearly 50,000 inmates who applied for parole were approved.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
After Kenneth's testimony, the prosecution believed that he had sealed his own fate. During closing arguments, prosecutor Crawford Lang left the jury with an image of the monster on trial. He raised his left hand, pointed at Kenneth and said, quote, I submit to you that the evidence shows that this defendant is every person's nightmare.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The evidence shows that he is the monster that comes out of the dark and jerks innocent people off the streets. and takes them out and slaughters them. And with that, the jury left for deliberation. Luckily, after only four hours, they had reached their verdict. Kenneth McDuff was found guilty for murdering Melissa Northrup. There was a sigh of relief throughout the courtroom.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Kenneth finally got the justice he deserved. And when it came to sentencing, everyone wanted to see Kenneth McDuff put to death. and they wanted to make sure he was actually executed this time around.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
For the sentencing phase, the prosecution called for Kenneth's accomplices, Roydale Green and Hank Worley, and they would ultimately tell the court how they had witnessed Kenneth's brutality firsthand. They both walked the jury through all of the horrifying things they saw Kenneth do, during his crimes.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And that seemed to be the nail in his coffin because after only 65 minutes of deliberation, the jury handed down their sentence. Kenneth McDuff was to be executed. Here is Melissa Northrup's husband, Aaron, and her mother, Barbara, outside of the courtroom.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And in 1989, 61,000 were paroled, some of whom were violent criminals. Now by 1989, it had been 23 years since the Broomstick murders. Kenneth McDuff was now 43 years old. And in September of that year, he was up for parole for the 15th time. The three-member panel was Cora Mosley, Dr. James Granberry and Chris Mealy. Chris Mealy was the board member who would determine Kenneth's fate.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And he admitted that he had been impressed by Kenneth's record, which is pretty surprising considering he had smuggled drugs into the prison and he attempted to bribe a parole member. I'm not sure how that's impressive. But on September 14th, 1989, Kenneth McDuff was granted parole. The man who raped and tortured a 16 year old girl. a man who brutally murdered three innocent teenagers.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, apparently, Hank was horrified that Kenneth had said this, and he was adamant that he was not responsible. He even said that he would gladly take a polygraph to clear his name. But like we mentioned, Kenneth and Hank were both ruled out as suspects in the Yogurt Shop murders. And there was DNA left at that crime scene, so we have to assume it didn't match theirs.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But many people over the years have had their questions. If you remember, one of the Yogurt Shop victims was even found with an ice cream scooper inserted into her vagina, just like Kenneth did with that broomstick back in 1966. But again, they were both ruled out.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And on October 11th of that year, Kenneth walked out of the prison a free man. And I can't even imagine what Louise, Robert, and Marcus's family thought. This man took their lives. And now he was in his 40s, walking free, when their loved ones never got the chance. Now, as you can imagine, when word got out that Kenneth McDuff had been released, everyone was shocked.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Regina Moore was found with her hands tied behind her back and her ankles were secured with a stocking. The stocking around her ankles was tied in a way that would allow Regina to walk to her grave. And soon enough, another one of his victims would be reunited with their family. On October 1st, a few days after Regina's body was discovered, investigators had enough information to locate the body
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
All three teenagers were brutally murdered, but luckily their deaths were almost immediately solved. Kenneth's accomplice was so overwhelmed with guilt, he ended up confessing to the murders the very next day. And in last week's episode, we left off with their trials. Both Roy and Kenneth were convicted of the murders and Kenneth was even scheduled to be executed by the electric chair.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
of Brenda Thompson, the other sex worker that Kenneth killed. Now, although Kenneth had given a general area of where her body could be found, his directions were not super clear. Located off a secluded road, seven miles north of Waco, Kenneth described a general area of where he had buried Brenda in a shallow grave. He told them it was near a partially fallen fence near a hill.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
With this information, several investigators arrived and started searching for Brenda's remains. The area was heavily wooded and surrounded by poison ivy, but soon enough, they would find her. Brenda Thompson was found with only a pair of socks over her skeletonized feet. All of her other clothing had rotted and withered away. But finally, they found her.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The people of Rosebud, Texas began locking their doors again. Some people even pulled their children out of school and they had every right to be afraid. There were whispers around town that Kenneth had vowed to get revenge on the people in his past who had wronged him.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
If you remember, in the previous episode, we talked about a man named Tommy Sammons, the boy who humiliated McDuff by beating him up after school that one day. Well, by now, Tommy was grown with children of his own. But in the days after Kenneth's release from prison, he received a strange phone call.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
So by this point, Kenneth had been convicted for Melissa and Colleen's murders. But even on death row, he refused to speak about what happened with them. Kenneth never admitted that he took Melissa and Colleen's lives. But surprisingly, he was willing to talk about the sex workers he killed.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, sadly, he would never be convicted for the murders of Regina Moore, Brenda Thompson, or Valencia K. Joshua. There was also that other sex worker, Serafia Parker, that was killed just three days after he was paroled in 1989. Now, in addition to these four women, there were other sex workers that he was suspected of killing, but these are the only four that are officially tied to him.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
However, those four women would never get their day in court. Now that Kenneth already had two convictions for the murders of Melissa and Colleen, I guess the courts just didn't want to waste their tax dollars on the other girls, which is sad. But while on death row, he did open up about what he had done to Regina Moore and Brenda
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Tommy said that when he answered, all he could hear on the other end of the line were three gunshots. Then the caller hung up. But Tommy knew without a shadow of a doubt that the caller was Kenneth McDuff. He was letting the town of Rosebud know that he was back.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
On the morning of November 17th, 1998, Kenneth McDuff woke up for the very last time because this was the day of his execution. Now, normally when an inmate is scheduled to be executed, there are anti-death penalty protests outside. But on this day, there were none. It seemed as if even the protesters believed He deserved it.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
For Kenneth's last meal, he had two 16-ounce T-bone steaks, five fried eggs, vegetables, french fries, peach pie, and a Coke. After eating his meal, he made his way over to the execution chamber. Inside, sitting behind a glass window, were four of his victim's family members. This was the day that they had been waiting for for years. Finally, a little after 6 p.m.,
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Kenneth McDuff was strapped to the gurney with an IV in his right arm. His last words were, quote, I'm ready to be released. Release me, end quote. And after a few minutes, Kenneth McDuff took his last breath, ending a 32 reign of terror over the state of Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The destruction caused by Kenneth McDuff was far and wide. He tore families apart across the state of Texas. He stripped small, entrusting towns of their security. And his reign of terror went on for far too long. With the execution of McDuff, these families, these communities could finally start to repair the damage that he had caused. But even after his death,
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
the ripple effect of his crimes can still be felt today. And the most devastating part is that it all could have been avoided. Somehow, the state of Texas let this killer free time and time again. And because of that, so many people lost their lives. Now, like we mentioned, Kenneth is believed to have killed nine people throughout his life.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
but investigators suspected that there could be many, many more, but we'll never know because Kenneth took those answers to the grave. When I first heard the story about Kenneth McDuff, I was shocked. He was truly one of the scariest, most sadistic monsters I had ever heard of.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And growing up in Texas, I couldn't believe that I hadn't heard of him before, which had me thinking, how many other serial killers are there like Kenneth McDuff? ones who fell through the cracks of the justice system, killers who tore families apart and wreaked havoc on small towns across America, ones that most of us have never even heard of.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
So if you're listening to this and you know of a serial killer from your area, one that people don't know about, send us an email at murderinamericapodcast at gmail.com. We wanna start sharing more of these stories and I know there are plenty more to tell.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Just three days after his release from prison, the body of 29-year-old Seraphia Parker was found beaten, strangled, and raped in a field in Temple, Texas, which is only about 20 minutes away from Rosebud. Now, Seraphia was a sex worker. And as you've seen throughout true crime stories, monsters like McDuff like to target these people because sadly, their murders don't get as much attention.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, McDuff was never charged with Serafia's murder, but it is widely believed that she was his victim. After 23 years in prison, he was itching to kill again, but he knew he had to be smart. Killing teenagers would surely put him right back where he came from. So this time he chose a victim that wouldn't garner a lot of attention. and it seemed to have worked in his favor.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Unlike his previous murders, the police never came looking for him. They never even questioned him. And this would be the beginning of a series of disturbing rapes and murders that would haunt Central Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But as you'll learn in this episode, he would somehow be let back out into society. And unfortunately, following his release, he still had that insatiable need to kill. So this is part two of the story of Kenneth Allen McDuff. I'm Courtney Browen. And I'm Colin Browen. And you're listening to Murder in America.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But this freedom led him down a dark path. It was reported that in 1990, he started robbing local drug dealers. He was often seen speeding down the highway in his brand new car. When the residents of Rosebud saw him out and about, they were disgusted, but they didn't dare cross his path. They knew that he was a dangerous individual, something they had known ever since he was a child.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Officer Sorensen learned that Brittany and Celeste had been living at the hotel for nearly four months. They moved there after being forced to leave the Congress Inn due to it permanently closing. But as he walked around their small hotel room that morning, he noticed that not only were there no toys for the three young children, but that there was not a designated area for homeschooling.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
There were no computers, school books, or even pencils and markers to indicate that Brittany did in fact homeschool her kids. The reality was they weren't being homeschooled. Officers also discovered multiple trash bags around the room with various items of clothing, some of which were soiled with urine.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
In one bag located to the left of the bed, they found a children's diaper that was wrapped in duct tape and a set of rubber gloves. On top of the refrigerator was a box of white trash bags in a bottle of bleach. Now to an investigator, these items may raise some red flags, but there was nothing that screamed that Amari was met with foul play, at least not in this hotel room.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
So from here, investigators speak with Brittany, Amari's mom, and they want to get any information they can. Brittany once again told the officers that Amari had gone to sleep on Saturday, November 20th, at around 10 p.m. And once she was asleep, Brittany took a lift to the BP gas station.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
She admitted that she was only gone for around 20 minutes and that her girlfriend Celeste stayed behind to watch the kids. Brittany said that when she returned, Amari was still sleeping in the room. Now her girlfriend Celeste told officers that after Brittany came back home from the store,
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
she had her sister pick her up and take her to her grandmother's house so she could babysit her niece and nephew and celeste claimed that she was there all night long in fact she said she came back to the hotel at around 5 that morning so naturally when celeste tells the officers this they have some questions the first thing they ask is when you came back to the hotel room this morning
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
did you see Amari? But Celeste couldn't really give an answer. She claimed that it was too dark in the hotel room, so she didn't really notice if Amari was there or not. Once she arrived, she said she went back to sleep and it wasn't until hours later when Brittany woke her up in a panic, claiming that Amari was missing. According to Brittany, when she realized that Amari wasn't in the room,
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
she rushed outside and began looking for her. Brittany said she searched the parking lot, checked the back of the hotel, and she went floor to floor to see if anyone had seen her. But after about five minutes of searching, Brittany decided to call 911. Now, Officer Sorensen knew that there were surveillance cameras at the hometown studios.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And luckily, there was even one near Brittany and Celeste's doorway. So from there, he walked to the management office to review the camera footage. and what he saw would immediately raise some red flags. Shockingly, there wasn't any footage of Amari leaving the hotel room that morning. There was also no footage of her wandering around all on her own.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
They also checked the footage to see if Brittany, Amari's mom, had actually looked for her. They were expecting to see on the camera a frantic mother running around looking for her daughter. But surprisingly, Brittany was not on the footage either. She had not left the room that morning to search for Amari, like she had claimed.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
In total, eight cameras were searched, including cameras from a nearby car wash and hibachi restaurant. None of them showed Amari or Brittany Hall, who said she was looking for her daughter. So why lie?
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
That night, both Brittany and Celeste were allowed to go back home as there was no evidence to hold them. And sadly, by 4.30 p.m. that day, there was still no sign of Amari Hall, despite the massive search in and around hometown studios. Soon enough, the sun was going down and the air outside was getting colder and authorities continue to worry about the safety of the eight-year-old little girl.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Now, I'm not sure why authorities told the public that they didn't suspect foul play, because Brittany and Celeste were raising all the red flags. Their stories were changing. They weren't matching up. Maybe authorities didn't want them to suspect that they were onto them. But soon enough, the women were back at the police station for questioning.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And specifically, authorities wanted to know everything that happened that weekend, everything that led up to Amari's disappearance.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Now, like you just heard, Celeste said that she was at her grandmother's house that night, but at some point in the interview, she stated that her and her grandma had an estranged relationship due to Celeste being a lesbian, which is strange because she said she was at her house all that night.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Detectives also wanted information on Celeste's sister, the one who picked her up that night, but Celeste told them that she didn't have her sister's phone number and that they only communicated via Instagram.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
A few years later in June of 2015, Brittany Hall would give birth to her second daughter named Zaire. And by then, Barbara's house was feeling a little crowded. So she actually decided to help her daughter Brittany get an apartment of her own. For the first time in years, Brittany was on her own and she now had two young children. Things weren't easy.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
At this point in the interview, detectives ask Celeste what she believes happened to Amari. And immediately, she starts talking about Amari's behavioral issues, something that her grandmother Barbara said was completely fabricated.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
On a cold November night in 2021, eight-year-old Amari Hall suddenly disappeared from the hometown studios, an extended stay hotel in the Peachtree Corners area of Gwinnett County, Georgia. Amari's mother, Brittany Hall, claimed that Amari fell asleep at around 10 p.m., safe and sound inside the hotel room. However, when she woke up that next morning, Amari was nowhere to be found.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And every so often she would send the kids back with her mom, Barbara, when she was feeling overwhelmed. Now the following year on September 19th, 2016, Brittany would give birth to her third child, a son named Jakari. And he had the same father as her second daughter, Zaire. But from what I could tell, the father wasn't very present in the children's lives. So after the birth of her third kid,
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
By now, both Detective Conaway and Officer Sorenson were highly skeptical of Celeste's version of events. She continued to say that on the morning of Amari's disappearance, Brittany had frantically searched the parking lot and the surrounding areas of the hotel. But like we mentioned, investigators had watched the surveillance footage and there was no sign of Brittany outside of the room at all.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
When confronted with this, Celeste acted shocked and confused. According to her, Brittany had searched for Amari before dialing 911.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
In a desperate attempt to mislead investigators, Celeste then mentioned a mysterious man behind the hotel that was trying to lure children to a box. According to Celeste, Brittany had learned from a neighbor, whom she described as a crackhead, that the man was in a black vehicle and he was acting extremely suspicious.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Brittany decided to move back in with her mother for a period of time. Barbara wanted to make sure the kids were taken care of. And once Brittany was back on her feet, she would once again move back out on her own. Here is Barbara Wright.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
So as you can see, the first few years of Amari's life were a little unstable, having to move back and forth between her mother and grandmother's house. But in the end, she was cared for. Her grandmother, Barbara, stated that Amari was the brightest light. She brought a smile to everyone around her. And like every little girl, she had dreams of what she wanted to become when she was older.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
At this point, investigators stepped out of the interrogation room to speak with Brittany, who was being held in room one. They also used this opportunity to speak with Brittany's two other children, Zaire and Jakari. About an hour later, they returned to Celeste's room and revealed that one of the children had made a shocking statement.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Six-year-old Zaire told investigators that Celeste physically removed Amari from the hotel room on the night in question and said that she was taking her to the bad kids hospital. But Celeste tried to play off the bad kids hospital as a statement she often made when Amari was misbehaving.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And Amari wanted to be a hairdresser. Any chance she could, Amari was playing with everyone's hair. And if it wasn't her mom or grandma's hair, she was doing her doll's hair.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
From here, detectives would only find more discrepancies within Celeste's story. Receipts at the BP gas station showed no purchases by either Celeste or Brittany when they both said that they had been there that night.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And when confronted with this, the investigators also noticed that Celeste and Brittany's stories were similar, but specific details were completely different, almost like they had rehearsed things, but not well enough. For instance, the description of that crackhead neighbor was different. And so was the man who they claimed was luring children behind the hotel.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Investigators knew that they were both somehow involved, but they needed more information. So Detective Conaway once again went over Celeste's timeline from Saturday, November 20th up until she discovered that Amari was missing. And this is a tactic that detectives use to catch people in lies. They'll get you to tell your story over and over again, asking specific questions about every detail.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And when you're telling the truth, recalling those details shouldn't be that hard. However, when you're lying, they are. After a few hours of questioning, Celeste was obviously irritated and she continued to argue with them, especially when they brought up the family members that she claimed to have babysat that night.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
At this point in the interview, detectives bring up something extremely disturbing. During their talk with Amari's sister, Zaire, she mentioned that Celeste would often use a napkin to put the kids to sleep. But when they bring this up to Celeste, she plays dumb and says that the little girl is lying.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
She also changes the subject and says that Amari and Zaire are very difficult children who fight all the time. But Celeste said that they never addressed the fights professionally because they believed that they would be falsely targeted for abusing the children when it was really just them fighting. But it was clear to detectives when they spoke to Zaire that she was very afraid of Celeste.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
The little girl said that she would often brandish her gun and threaten the kids when she was upset, that she would hit them when they misbehaved. But of course, Celeste denied all of this. And from this point forward, it was very clear that she was no longer willing to cooperate with investigators. When detectives asked if they could look through her cell phone, she told them no.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
now barbara was a huge figure in the children's lives but once brittany came back to get her children they lost touch with their grandma for a while disturbingly once brittany took them back she didn't even tell her mom where she was going for months Barbara called and texted her daughter over and over again, trying to get in touch with her, but they all went unanswered.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Obviously, there were secrets inside. Secrets that she didn't want investigators to know about. But eventually, they would get access to her cell phone. And as soon as she handed it over, Celeste began to grow even more angry.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
But then finally, Brittany picked up the phone. Barbara was so relieved to finally hear her voice, but when she asked where Brittany was located, she still refused to tell her. So Barbara then asked, well, can we FaceTime? I'd love to see the kids, but Brittany once again refused.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
At this point in the interview, Celeste tries to leave, but investigators quickly tell her that she isn't allowed to leave. Now, they don't have enough evidence to place her under arrest for Amari's disappearance, but they do have proof that she lied to investigators. So from here, she's arrested for making a false statement and she's taken to the Gwinnett County Jail.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Meanwhile, investigators took pictures of Jakari and Zaire's injuries that were visible once they arrived at the Sheriff's Department. Officer Sorensen later said that when they first encountered the children at the hotel room, both had been under blankets. And then even during transport, Celeste and Brittany had them wrapped in blankets in an attempt to hide their injuries.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Shockingly, when the blankets were removed, both children had bruises, scabs, and cuts all over their legs, arms, backs, and even on their faces. Now, throughout the time they were at the police station, both Zaire and Jakari complained that they were hungry. Investigators would later admit that both of the children's bellies were distended. which indicated that they were extremely malnourished.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
But while at the police station, the children were fed Papa John's pizza. But due to their significant injuries, the children were not allowed to go back in the custody of their mom. Instead, they were taken into state custody.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
and disturbingly, the door to the hotel room was left ajar. Investigators in Georgia worked tirelessly to find the little girl, and in the beginning, they had hope that she would be found alive. However, with each passing hour, investigators were growing more and more suspicious of the main people in Amari's life.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Now, even before finding these videos, investigators had a sinking feeling that Amari was no longer alive. But after watching the horrific abuse found on Celeste's phone, they were more sure than ever that Amari was dead. And sadly, they were right. On Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021, at around 10.45 a.m., the search for Amari Hall came to an end.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Tragically, her naked body was discovered inside of a white trash bag in a wooded area near the Stone Mill Trace neighborhood in DeKalb County. Crime scene investigation supervisor, Key Jimenez, was immediately called out to the scene to assist the two detectives.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Amari's body had been concealed by three trash bags, one trash bag over the top of her head down to her abdomen, another covered up her legs towards her hips, and the last one had been used to wrap around the remainder of her torso, and they were all secured with a long black rope.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
The trash bag that covered the top portion of Amari's body was ripped upon discovery. Key explained that the rip was consistent with animal activity. But upon finding Amari's remains, investigators were heartbroken. This was not the outcome that anyone wanted, but it sadly was the outcome that they had suspected from the very beginning. So following the discovery, police chief J.D.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
McClure updated the community in a press conference at 1 p.m.,
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Battered Child Syndrome is where a child is beaten on multiple occasions. There are multiple wounds, multiple locations of these wounds, and multiple stages of healing. So essentially, when a child dies from Battered Child Syndrome, it means they faced beatings over and over again until their body could no longer take it.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
For Amare's little body, she was covered in bruises, lacerations, and contusions that were all in various stages of healing. Her ankles had wounds that suggested she had them tied together at one point. And based on how the wounds look, Dr. Downs stated that they happened weeks or even days before her death. In addition, Amari was extremely thin when she was found.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Her ribs were poking through her skin, which indicated she was severely malnourished. and she only weighed 54 pounds. Now, Amari was tall for her age, she was 4'10", and according to Dr. Downs, she should have weighed at least 80 pounds, so she was 30 pounds underweight. Dr. Downs also discovered that Amari had almost no muscular development.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Her knees were extremely bony, which indicated she was neglected and not fed on a regular basis. Almost all of the injuries on her body had at one point been an open wound, and professionals believe that she had been repeatedly beaten with a long thin type of instrument, such as a cord or a plastic hanger.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
She also had a torn frenulum, a thin piece of tissue that connects the top lip to the gum line. Dr. Downs suggested that this could have been torn after being repeatedly punched in the face. And these were just the external injuries. During her internal examination, Dr. Downs discovered a large amount of blood in blood clots in her belly.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
There was bruising to her lungs, several fractured ribs that were in multiple stages of healing. There was a large bruise on the back of her head and a three-inch tear on her liver. Dr. Downs stated that he believed while Amari was lying on the ground, someone wearing boots had stomped on Amari's liver
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
and crushed it into her spine he also stated that this injury was likely caused just hours before her death and that she would have been in excruciating pain for an eight-year-old little girl she definitely would have been crying complaining of severe stomach pain but no one came to help her ultimately dr downs determined that the cause of death was battered child syndrome due to the significant number of blunt force injuries to amari's body as well as malnutrition
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
With the license plate number recorded from the back of the U-Haul van, investigators were able to utilize flock cameras, which are special cameras that read license plates. And they were able to determine that from there, Celeste traveled back towards the hometown studios.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
However, first, she decided to make a quick stop at the Family Dollar, located right across the street from the Extended Stay Hotel. Investigators learned that on November 19th, At 1.39 p.m., Celeste purchased a gallon of bleach, blue latex gloves, and a few snacks, including Powerade, Mountain Dew, and some candy. Her total came out to be $18.50. From there, she got back into the van
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
and drove to the hometown studios located at 7049 Jimmy Carter Boulevard. A few hours later, at around 5.52 p.m., the U-Haul van was moved to a closer parking spot near the stairwell by room 251. Celeste had backed the van into the parking spot and at 5.53, the back door of the van was opened. And from the cameras, you could see that there was movement.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Now, the camera view was compromised, but it's safe to assume that it's here where Celeste put Amari's body into the back of the van. Then, at 5.58 p.m., the van pulled out of the parking lot heading eastbound on Jimmy Carter Boulevard. Flock cameras tracked the location of the van going towards DeKalb County and then ultimately turning around at 7.03 p.m.,
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
was then shown traveling towards the direction of the A1 storage facility.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Now Celeste Owens would plead not guilty for her trial that was set for December of 2024, but the prosecution had a pretty strong case. When the trial finally commenced a few months back, prosecutor Sabrina Nizam painted a horrible and disturbing picture of what life was like for Brittany Hall's three young children.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Sabrina stated that both Celeste and Brittany had a pattern of severe abuse, stating, quote, slapping them in the back of the head, the stomping, the blindfolding, the lying on the ground. They did this together. Their method was together. But she told the jury that on November 19th, 2021... Two days before Amari was reported missing, it all came to a head.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Like we mentioned, Amari had a laceration to her liver, an injury she received after Celeste Owens stomped on her. It's believed that Amari spent hours in the hotel room in excruciating pain, crying and asking for help. But instead of caring for her, Celeste Owens responded to Amari's cries with a blunt force hit to her head. And sadly this time, she wouldn't make it.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Throughout 2021, Barbara and Tony tried on numerous occasions to locate the children, but to no avail. And in the meantime, Brittany had rekindled an on-again off-again relationship with a 29-year-old woman named Celeste Owens. It was reported that Brittany and Celeste had been friends since they were teenagers. but they weren't romantically involved until their late 20s.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
On the floor of the hometown studios, eight-year-old Amari Hall succumbed to her injuries. Her young siblings, Zaire and Jakari, were there watching it all unfold. And by that next morning, both Brittany and Celeste noticed that Amari was unresponsive. But instead of calling for help, they began to think about themselves.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
They knew that a beaten and dead eight-year-old child would result in prison. So it's here where they started planning their cover-up. That day, Celeste Owens rented out that U-Haul. She bought trash bags, gloves, and cleaning products. And once she had everything she needed, she made her way back to the hometown studios. Inside room 251, she picked up Amari's deceased and battered body
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
and began wrapping her in trash bags, securing it with rope. From there, she shoved her body into a container, put on the lid, and then threw her into the back of the U-Haul. Along the way to the dump site, Celeste called Amari's mom, Brittany, updating her on what was going on. In the late hours, Celeste discarded Amari's body like trash. deep in the woods in DeKalb County.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
After returning to the apartment that night, Brittany and Celeste came up with their stories. They were going to wait until the morning to report Amari missing. They would say that Amari had been having behavioral issues and that she likely ran away on her own. It's eerie to think about Brittany and Celeste lying in bed that night with their two other abused and battered children in the room.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
I always find myself wondering if they got any sleep that night or if they laid in bed rehearsing their lies over and over again. Whatever the case may be, investigators saw right through it from the get-go.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And this time around, things were serious between the two. Celeste had even moved in with Brittany and her three kids, and they were instructed to call Celeste dad. But their life together was unstable to say the least. Brittany, Celeste, and the three children moved around constantly, never staying in one place for too long. They often lived in various extended stay hotels.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
So Zaire said that Amari and Jakari weren't allowed to eat real food that day. And when Amari came out of the bathroom, her mother Brittany shoved toilet paper into her mouth. Now I couldn't find the reasoning they gave as to why she may have done this. But as we know, Amari had severe internal injuries. So she was likely crying a lot. Maybe her parents were wanting to silence the cries.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
But like Zaire said, by that next morning, Amari wouldn't wake up.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
It's heartbreaking to think about what Zaire and Jakari witnessed that day. Not only did they watch their sister get abused and die, but after she wouldn't wake up, they watched Celeste wrap her body up like trash and put her into that small bin.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Celeste and Brittany also used this opportunity to emotionally abuse Zaire and Jakari by telling them that because Amari was misbehaving, they were taking her to the bad kids hospital, something that they had threatened pretty frequently. Zaire's testimony was heartbreaking and extremely disturbing. For years, Amari, Jakari and Zaire were subjected to prolonged horrific abuse and torture.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
In the spring of 2021, they were living at the Congress Inn in Norcross, Georgia. Then in August, they moved into room 251 at the Hometown Studios. Now for work, Brittany considered herself to be a spiritual healer, and she also claimed to have homeschooled Amari, Zaire, and Jakari. And her partner Celeste reportedly worked as an artist. Their careers weren't really bringing in a lot of money.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And the jury was able to see that firsthand. On December 13th, 2024, After four days of emotional testimony, graphic autopsy photos, and witness statements, both the defense and prosecution rested their case. The jury deliberated for only two hours before reaching their verdict, guilty on all counts.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
They also didn't have vehicles, so anytime they needed to get somewhere, they had to rely on Uber or Lyft. Now Brittany's mom, Barbara, truly had no idea what was going on in her daughter's life. She didn't know that the kids were bouncing around to hotel rooms or that they barely had enough money to let the kids eat. And Barbara could never get a hold of Brittany to get any updates.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
There were timelines that didn't match up, lies exposed, and cell phone data that painted a horrible picture of child abuse and torture. And sadly, this story would end in the worst way you can imagine. So this is the story of Amari Hall. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
But towards the beginning of 2021, she had this horrible feeling that something was wrong. However, she had no idea just how bad things had gotten, especially for her oldest granddaughter, While their family was drifting around town to different hotel rooms, the children were also experiencing unimaginable physical, emotional, and verbal abuse.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
As Celeste Owen stood at the defense table with a blank expression on her face, Judge Duncan admitted that throughout her entire career in law, Amari's case was the most horrific she had ever seen.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Brittany Hall and Celeste Owens had turned their home into a prison. The children were not only denied love and care, but also basic needs like food or a bed. But Brittany and Celeste got plenty to eat. They got to sleep in the hotel room's bed. while the kids, Amari, Zaire, and Jakari had to sleep on the cold ground with no pillows or blankets.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And we can only hope that she too will get the justice she deserves. Brittany Hall may not have murdered her daughter, but she watched it happen right in front of her. She also participated in the abuse. Amari's young life was marked by relentless suffering and cruelty by the hands of those who were meant to protect and love her. Her tiny body was covered with bruises,
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Her ribs were broken, she was severely malnourished, and she had suffered from internal bleeding. Amari's mother, Brittany, and her partner, Celeste Owens, had turned their home into a chamber of horrors for all three of those children. And as a result, Amari's life was cut short. She never got to experience the love that every child deserves.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And instead of hugs, warmth, and care, Amari only knew fear, pain. Now, as for her siblings, Zaire and Jakari, they have both been placed in the custody of their grandparents, Barbara and Tony Wright. And we can only hope that their lives are brighter now that they've escaped the torturous environment that it started in.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Thank you.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
That Sunday morning around 9.15 a.m., Brittany Hall called the Gwinnett County Police Department to report that her daughter Amari was not in the hotel room when she woke up. Brittany was frantic as she stated that Amari had gone to sleep the previous night at around 10 p.m., but when she woke up at 9 a.m., her daughter was nowhere to be found.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
She also said that the front door was left slightly ajar, suggesting that Amari may have left the hotel on her own. Brittany mentioned that Amari was diagnosed with high functioning autism, but that she was extremely intelligent. She stated, quote, she is very, very smart. Even though she is autistic, she's very aware of things. She's very observant. this hurts.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
She told dispatch that Amari knew not to close the door behind her when she left because she knew it would wake up everyone in the room. So she likely left the door cracked on purpose. Additionally, the medication she took for her autism was also missing.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
The dispatcher asked Brittany if Amari was known to walk out of the room by herself and Brittany replied, quote, no, but we've been having problems with her, end quote. And those problems, Brittany stated, were due to her high-functioning autism. Brittany said that Amari knew her surroundings, but her behavior had been a huge problem in their home.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And you're listening to Murder in America.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Officer Sorensen said that when he pulled into the parking lot, there were 15 officers from Gwinnett County and a few more from neighboring precincts who were on foot with canines searching the wooded areas near the hotel. They were also going door to door to different businesses to see if anyone had seen Amari.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Helicopters and the Division of Family and Children Services were also on scene to help with the large-scale search operation. But something Sorensen quickly noted was the state of Brittany Hall's hotel room.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Our senior class girls has this thing where if we saw him looking at girls in a certain way, we knew he would take pictures of any skin showing. So we started letting the other girls around know that he was looking and that they should probably put a sweatshirt on because no matter how many times we told the school about the disgusting things he did, the school never did anything.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
We wrote out our statements and are pressing the issue and so are the cops. They were as helpful as could be. He's 18 and started crying and denying it. Then they tried to turn it on my kids, saying they were mad that they were walking down and looking into their windows. We didn't see it walking down the stairs. We saw it from across our yard, 15-20 feet away.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
And it was still daylight out, so he was close enough to the window that we could vividly see everything. That is not okay. Like someone said above, he was positioned to where my daughter and then myself could see exactly what he was doing. That took some effort. And that kind of behavior is gross, disturbing, and unacceptable in every sort of way. I'm so sad for my kids right now.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
especially redacted she was white as a ghost and in shock that's the last thing my 11 year old daughter should have to see I also heard him saying he was getting dressed well never in my life have I seen someone get dressed in that manner he knows what he did and so do we another Kellogg resident commented on the post with her own interaction with Devin saying the following
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Known him since middle school where he was attempting to look up CP and had his Chromebook taken for having, quote, questionable content on it. He would always stare at the girls in class and had me covering up any time I'd walk near him. He's been caught shoving girls against their lockers and walls of the school trying to rape them.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
and touching multiple girls, including myself inappropriately for years. Praying that your babies stay protected. It's so sad you have to keep them from being kids because of creeps.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
According to Kellogg Police Chief Paul Twitt, "...we responded to the call, investigated the call, and the report was done that day and submitted to the prosecutor's office for charges." Now, the police department recommended that Devin Smith be charged with one misdemeanor count of indecent exposure, and the charges were supposed to be filed with the prosecutor's office.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
However, for reasons unknown, the charge was not in the court system by the evening of June 18th. And for the time being, Major John and Kaylee Kaler were angry. Apparently, Major John even attempted to speak with Devin's mother, Kenna, and his grandfather, Kenneth, to explain what had transpired. But according to him, they brushed it off. but they couldn't avoid each other forever.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
After all, they lived in the same building and the town where they resided was small. So much so, the Kalers even saw them at the grocery store a few days later.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
This is the sicko who made eye contact with my daughter while masturbating and exposing himself. His name is Devin and he is 18. We walked into the store yesterday and he was standing there with his mom named Kenna, who still hasn't said a word to us. She just put her head down and looked embarrassed.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
He stared at my kids and I when we walked in and then gave Major the same smug look that he was giving when Major was confronting him. So angry.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Call the cops. Report it. He's graduated and out in society full time now.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But according to the people of Kellogg, Devin Smith had a history of this kind of behavior. Another student who went to school with Devin named Daisy Sawyer also told the local newspaper that Devin quote, harassed her at school and was known to be inappropriate. So when word started spreading about him exposing himself to these young girls, it didn't seem like anyone was surprised.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Then, as if the Kaler family couldn't be more upset, after sharing their stories, they were met with all of these people who had similar disturbing stories of their downstairs neighbor. The Kalers were beginning to realize that this likely wasn't a one-time thing. Their downstairs neighbor was allegedly a serial offender.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Now, upon seeing this Facebook post, I can assume that no one actually thought Major John would take matters into his own hands like Gary did. But that post was an eerie foreshadowing of what was to come, which brings us to Sunday, June 18th, 2023, Father's Day. That morning, Kaylee posted a heartfelt message to her husband. It read, quote, Happy Father's Day to the best dad ever.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
I see you in all that you do for your kids and I. You work hard, stand your ground, and don't give up. You're the exact person I want our kids looking up to. Our life together is the greatest, and I'm so amazingly lucky to have someone like you as the father to my children. The kids and I love you. Can't wait for you to get home from work. End quote.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
However, Kaylee had no idea that when her husband would come home from work, all chaos would break loose at the duplex. It was a little after 7 p.m. when Major John arrived back home. And the first thing he did when he walked through the doors was holster his gun. From there, he and Kaylee went to the backyard to allegedly water some plants. But that's when they ran into their neighbors.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Kenna and her father Kenneth. Upon seeing each other, a heated argument ensued, something that was also caught on surveillance footage from a business across the street. Now Kaylee knew that Major John had his gun on him, but at this point it was put away in his holster. However, within a few minutes, the sound of gunfire would echo throughout the street. During their argument,
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Major John pulled his gun from his holster and aimed it directly at Kenna. In an attempt to protect herself from the bullets, she put her hand out, but Major John pulled the trigger. The bullet from his gun went through Kenna's hand and directly into her chest, but she wasn't dead just yet. After dropping to the ground, Major John stood over her and put the muzzle of his gun right up to her head.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
He pushed it so hard against her, there was a muzzle imprint on her temple, and then he pulled the trigger once more, killing her. Standing next to Kenna was her father, Kenneth. He had just watched his daughter get gunned down in the backyard of their home, and it seems as if he tried to get away, but soon enough, Major John turned the gun on him.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Like with Kenna, he first fired a shot into Kenneth's chest. Then, once he dropped to the ground, he pushed the gun up against his temple and fired a fatal shot into his head. execution style. Now Major John's wife Kaylee was outside at this time. She would later say that everything happened so fast. All she remembered was hearing the gunshots and seeing Kenna and Kenneth drop to the ground.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
And from there, she quickly ran inside. But the entire time she was running, the gunfire continued. Her husband wasn't finished with his rampage. After murdering Kenna and Kenneth, Major John made his way into his neighbor's home. Horrifically, 16-year-old Aiken Smith heard the gunshots outside, and it seemed as though he got up to run to safety.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Within their duplex, there was an area between the living room and kitchen. and as Aiken was running through it, he encountered his upstairs neighbor. Major John was standing there, in their home, holding a gun. Aiken tried to run away from him, but in response, Major John lifted his gun and fired a shot into Aiken's back.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Once he was down, he then fired a second shot into his temple, killing him instantly. Then from there, Major John went to find the main target, Devin Smith. the 18-year-old who allegedly exposed himself to his two young daughters. Along the way to Devin's bedroom, Major John grabbed an extra magazine and loaded it into his gun.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
After hearing the gunshots outside and in his home, Devin likely knew what was coming, and he probably knew exactly who was coming as well. And then suddenly, the door to his room burst open. Standing there in the threshold was Major John Kaler. Now from how Devin's body was later found, it's believed that he got onto his knees.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Maybe he did that on his own, or maybe Major John forced him into that position. We don't know. But what we do know is that after Devin got onto his knees, Major John fired a shot directly into his head. Now that first shot would have definitely killed Devin, but Major John continued to fire at him. In the end, Devin had a total of four bullet holes in his head.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
As more first responders arrived at the scene, Major John's wife, Kaylee, and their three kids emerged from their upstairs apartment. Sadly, they were covered in a blanket and screaming. As Major John was being escorted into a police cruiser, he handed his wife his wallet, keys, and phone, and he told her that he, quote, protected their kids. But Kaylee was in shock.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
This was her husband, the man she had been with for 18 years. the father of her children. And now he was being arrested for murdering people. Now at the scene, Kaylee told Detective Klitsch everything that had happened, about Devin masturbating in front of the window while she and her daughters were outside, about the police reports they made, and how nothing was done about it.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
So when they went outside that day and saw Kenna and Kenneth, Major John decided to confront them. Kaylee admitted that she knew Major John had his gun on him, but she never thought he would actually use it. Kaylee told the officers that as soon as her husband started shooting, she ran upstairs to her apartment.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
And over the next few minutes, all she could do was listen in horror as the gunshots continued. Now, the officers asked her, quote, did you two have a plan for if you caught Devin masturbating in front of the children again?
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
To which Kaylee said, yes, Major John admitted that he was going to take care of it, which is exactly what he told the police when they first reported the masturbating incident. Major John told dispatch that if this happened again, he was going to quote, handle it. And that quote, somebody's going to get hurt. However, Kaylee said that she just assumed her husband was going to beat Devin up.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
She had no idea that he was going to murder him and his entire family.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Imagine this, you and your family are looking for a place to live. You spend hours on the internet looking up all of the available homes in your area. After some searching, you finally find a few that meet your standards. So over the next few weeks, you take time out of your busy schedule to tour these homes. And finally, you come across the perfect one.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Now, following his arrest, Major John was actually taken to a nearby church for further questioning. And while there, he would speak to Detective Justin Klitsch and Captain Jeff Lee. But surprisingly, Major John's main concern at the time was actually about his broken shoulder. He kept complaining to the officers about how badly it hurt and how he was tired and nauseous.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But from there, he started talking about everything leading up to the shooting and how Devin, who he referred to as a pedophile, was masturbating in front of his kids. Now, the detectives were actually really understanding and likely to get Major John talking. Detective Klitsch even brought up this podcast he had recently listened to.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
He told Major John, quote, "'So I gotta tell you, dude, I just got back from Seattle about an hour ago.'" Have you ever heard of the Sean Ryan show? Well, you'll have to listen to this podcast. But my wife cried the whole way to Seattle. We were listening to this sex predator bullshit. End quote. And Major John agreed, telling the detective that he had a huge problem with sexual predators.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Detective Klitsch also brought up Kaylee's Facebook posts. where she had talked about what happened. And the detective told Major John that after reading it, he, quote, couldn't fucking believe that shit, end quote. Now, as for his motive behind the shooting, Major John said that they had reported the incident to the police, but nothing ever happened. There were zero repercussions.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
So he took matters to his own hands. Here is the following conversation he had with detectives. Colin will play the part of Major John and I will be the detective.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
I'm not going to allow it, period. Like I said, dude, my wife literally cried for two hours. When I read that Facebook message from your wife, it just pissed me off. But before we get started, I do want to ask some questions. All I know is that Facebook post, okay? That's all I've seen. But I do have to go through some procedural shit here.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Some evidence would later show that Major John's actions may have not been spur of the moment. In fact, it may even prove that his rampage was premeditated. Because shortly before the shooting, surveillance footage showed Major John arriving home in his black Dodge truck. But before going inside, he walked around his residence for several minutes.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
He also walked across the street to that assisted living facility where Kenna worked. Major John was then seen walking back over to the duplex behind a park trailer. His position gave him a view of the backyard. and the back door of apartment A. From the looks of it, it seemed as though Major John was looking for his victims.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Then from there, he would go inside of his apartment where, according to his wife, he put his gun in his holster. Then moments later, you could hear a verbal dispute break out on the surveillance footage. The argument lasted about five minutes before the gunshots were heard.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Major John Allen Kaler, born around 1991, was born and raised in Kellogg, Idaho. Court documents indicated that his childhood was plagued by abuse, poverty, and instability. But specific details are not available. Now in 2007, when Major John was around 16 years old, he was charged with battery. He also had misdemeanor driving violations and one charge of drug possession.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Now, clearly, the public was going to have their opinions about the case. And as you can imagine, there were people who were not very upset about the murder of Devin Smith. Based on his actions beforehand and the actions he was accused of by people in his community, some people believed that Devin was better off dead.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Others completely disagreed, saying that Devin was just a kid and that justice needs to be in the hands of law enforcement, not vigilantes. But I think regardless of your stance, most people agreed that it was a tragedy that Devin's entire family had been killed that day. Three generations completely erased. Now Devon's little brother Aiken was described as a good kid.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
One of Aiken's friends, Alex Rodriguez, wrote on one of Kaylee's original Facebook posts, quote, "'Yeah, justified in killing the whole family? "'The pedophile's brother is one of my best friends "'and an amazing kid.'" Three years JROTC serving his community. He was going to be a senior this year. He had his whole life ahead of him. I had so many great memories with him.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
I'm not saying his pedophile brother is innocent, but he is no hero taking the life of his innocent brother and family. It sucks knowing the last conversation I'll ever have with him was about how awful his brother was earlier today.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But Major John's wife, Kaylee, was also speaking to the public, letting them know that her husband was a good person despite his actions on that fateful evening. She blamed police officers and Kellogg High School for never stepping in when it was obvious Devin had significant issues.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But once he reached adulthood, everything seemed to change. Major John vowed to live differently than how he was raised. He wanted his family to have stability, which meant he had to work hard and keep a steady job, which he did. And Major John was proud of himself. With the way he grew up, things could have gone a lot differently.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
The community of Kellogg, Idaho was completely shaken by this quadruple homicide. Resident Dawn Rauenhorst remembered that the day it happened, she had just left her daughter's house across the street from the shooting when she noticed flashing police lights.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Dawn admitted to the local newspaper that she figured it was a car accident or that they were responding to a medical call at the nearby nursing home. She said, quote, "'I didn't imagine it would ever be anything serious.' And that's how many people in this community felt. This was not the kind of town where families are wiped out in their own homes.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
This neighborhood in particular was quiet, calm, and mostly filled with elderly people, people who looked out for one another. In fact, according to residents, It was common to get your neighbors to grab your mail for you if you were out of town. If you were missing an ingredient while you were making dinner, you could knock on your neighbor's door and they'd give you whatever you needed.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
And it seemed as if Kenna Gardepe was one of those people. She was described as kind with a big heart for others. and the elderly people she worked with across the street would definitely feel her absence after she was killed. Soon enough, a memorial for their family was even put up outside of their duplex.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
He himself watched kids with similar upbringings, lives of crime and drug addiction. But not him. He was taking control of his life. Now, Major John ended up marrying his high school sweetheart, Kaylee. The two had been together since they were 14 years old. And by 2023, they had three children, two daughters and one son.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Detective Klitsch and Sergeant Jared Belaski stated that Major John willingly spoke to them, a choice that was all on his own and not from a formal interrogation. They also said that they did not ask details about the murders until after his Miranda rights were read. And body cam footage worn by both men backed these statements up.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But this issue never even moved forward because in December of 2023, Major John accepted a plea deal and pleaded guilty to four counts of second degree murder. So his original charges were reduced and that burglary charge was dropped. But this plea deal meant that there would not be a trial and instead he would move straight to the sentencing phase.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Kenna's aunt Teresa described her as, quote, a single mom that worked harder than ever to raise her babies. She was a good mama. She was tough, strong-willed, and very independent. She always made sure her boys had everything they needed and some things that they wanted. End quote. Teresa went on to say that Devin and Aiken were robbed of their lives.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
She concluded with, quote, if what he did to our family doesn't haunt him every day, I hope that at least what he did to his family does. End quote. At least four impact statements stated that both Devin and Aiken were polite. Family friend Judith Haley wrote that both boys were, quote, well-mannered, respectful, and never demanding.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
And family friend Gerilyn Sylvia said, quote, they would always address people yes ma'am and yes sir when they spoke, end quote. Now, obviously, the deaths of these four victims were horrific. impacting not only family and friends, but the entire community of Kellogg and the state of Idaho as a whole.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
In fact, only seven months prior to the quadruple homicide, the University of Idaho stabbings rocked the state when four students, Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Cronodle, and Ethan Chapman were found stabbed to death in a three-story home near the university campus. Now that is a story that we will definitely be covering on the podcast someday.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But even though these tragedies were unrelated, both cast a dark heavy shadow over the state of Idaho.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
In October of 2023, the staff at Mountain Valley of Cascadia, where Kenna worked, would celebrate her life and dedicate a bike rack in her honor. After the murders, Kenna, Devon, and Aiken were cremated, and it's stated that there was no public memorial for them. Today,
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Major John Kaler is at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution in Kuna, Idaho, a prison designed for inmates with severe sentences or behavioral issues. And he had no possibility of parole, so he will be spending the rest of his life behind bars for the brutal murders of Kenneth Gardepe, Devin Smith, and Akin Smith.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
For a lot of people, they believe that justice had been served for the cold-blooded killer, However, there were a few others who disagreed, saying that Major John was a desperate father who was only trying to protect his young girls.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Prior to 2023, the Kalers had shared the two-story duplex with an older woman. She had lived in the unit below them and there were no issues. Now, I wasn't able to figure out what happened to that older lady, but by the summer of 2023, she was no longer living there. And soon enough, The Kalers watched as another family moved in. It was June 4th, 2023.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
41-year-old Kenna Gardapie and her two sons, 18-year-old Devin and 16-year-old Aiken, began moving boxes in. They were the new tenants of 515A Brown Avenue. Born in 1982, Kenna worked as a cook at Mountain Valley of Cascadia, an assisted living facility right across the street from the duplex. So when this unit opened up, Kenna jumped at the opportunity.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
As soon as you step inside, you know that it's the house where you will raise your kids, where you will create memories for the years to come. And luckily for you, after applying to live there, you get accepted. When moving day finally comes around, you couldn't be happier. And for the first few years, everything is going great. That is until a new family moves in next door.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
She could now live right across the street from her work, which was ideal as a single mother of two. For those who knew her, Kenna was described as a dedicated mother. She was also a great caretaker to the residents at the nursing home. According to a family friend, Kenna knew all of the residents' meal preferences. and she loved to play dress-up with them.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
The dress-up days were her favorite thing. She'd dress up for the residents and have fun." One of her coworkers told the Coeur d'Alene Post Falls Press that Kenna owned more tutus than anyone she had ever known. She was described as tough, independent, and hardworking. She was the type of mother that tried her best to give her children a good life, despite their single family income.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But things weren't always easy. Her sons, Devin and Aiken, they didn't have a stable father figure in their lives. But luckily, Kenna's father, 65-year-old Kenneth Gardepe, had really stepped in to help. Now, Kenneth had been getting older and slowing down. He was looking forward to retirement, especially after he had just recently suffered a heart attack.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But even so, he did everything he could to make their lives easier. Kenneth would drive the boys to after-school events, and he would even take them to doctor's appointments while Kenna was working.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
However, that summer, an incident would occur that would change the lives of both families living at the duplex. Now keep in mind, Devin and Aiken lived in the downstairs unit with their mom and grandpa, and the Kaler family lived upstairs, so they shared a backyard. According to Kaylee Kaler, everything had been fine during those first few weeks.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
No loud music, no parties going on after hours, but there was something that stuck out to her. In the days after the family moved in downstairs, she noticed that nearly every time her young daughters would go outside to play, the 18-year-old boy living beneath them would come outside as well. But she said that he wasn't out there for any particular reason. He would just come out and watch them.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Now, Kaylee said that at first she tried to brush it off, After all, they shared a backyard, so he was allowed to be out there. But there was something in her that felt off, a nagging feeling in her gut telling her to be cautious while her children played outside. So she made a mental note of it. But about a week later, something would happen that would prove her mother's intuition was right.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
At the end of the day, you may be able to find the perfect house, but it's the people living around you that can completely change everything. Maybe the neighbor across the street plays loud music at all hours of the night. The neighbors to your left fight all the time. The man down the street will come knocking on your door if your grass is half an inch too high.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
It was June 13th, 2023. Kaylee was in the backyard with her two daughters. The girls were coloring with chalk on the concrete when suddenly one of her daughters yelled out, mom, the boy's in the window. Now Kaylee said that at first she didn't think anything of it. She even told her daughter, yes, it's their house. It's fine.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But when she looked up and saw her daughter's face, she said that she looked shocked. And that's when her little girl yelled out, quote, no mom, the boy, he's shaking his penis, end quote. When Kaylee got up to see what her daughter was looking at, she said that she immediately saw 18-year-old Devin Smith naked, standing right there at his window. Upon seeing her,
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Kaylee said that he quickly jumped onto his bunk bed and pushed himself back out of sight. But as you can imagine, Kaylee was furious. Immediately, she ran inside to tell her husband what she just witnessed, and he was even more furious. Major John Kaler quickly ran into the backyard and knocked on Devin's window, but it seemed as if Devin was no longer in his room.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
So we got new neighbors downstairs two weeks ago. They have two teenage boys. One just graduated, and the other one does next year. We share a backyard. My kids stay on their side, but they're out there a lot. They jump on the trampoline with the sprinkler. Almost every single time, the older boy goes outside on his porch and... He seems to be watching them.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
I tried to brush it off since it's their yard too, but my mama gut couldn't shake it. I was outside with Redacted and Redacted, coloring with chalk in our backyard tonight, when Redacted says, "'Mom, the boy's in the window,' and she seems shocked. I say, "'Yes, it's their house. It's fine.'" And she goes, no, mom, the boy. He's shaking his penis.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
This dude was staring out the window directly at my girls and I, beating his dick off. I saw his naked body jump up on the bunk bed and scoot back. I made an effort to not look in their windows. So the fact that he was standing right there in front of it and my daughter saw everything is absolutely disgusting.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Especially because she was on the opposite side of our climbing dome, as far away in the yard as she could be on our side. Not even close to his window. Why were you staring in their direction? I immediately ran to get Major, who went down to go bang on the window, but he was gone. So Major went to the front door and had knocked several times before he got an answer. I am freaking distraught.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Or maybe, like in our story for today, the 18 year old boy living downstairs exposes his penis to your two young children. Scenarios like that can make your perfect home feel like a house of horrors. And sometimes, neighborhood disputes can end in bloodshed, sending shockwaves through your tight-knit community. So this is the story of Major John Kaler. I'm Courtney Browen.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
I called the landlord to let him know in case they start to complain about us or if they want to try and start drama and get us kicked out so he knows why. I am livid. The police have been called. I don't take stuff like this lightly. I just want to protect my children, but people always act like you are being dramatic. This is the last thing I want to be dealing with in this market.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Now my kids can't play outside like they've been able to for years when there was just a sweet old lady living below us.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
I went to school with him from kindergarten all the way up to my sophomore year. He is a creep and will not stop. He's been doing this kind of shit for a long ass time now. The police department needs to lock his ass up for life. He is disgusting.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth begann auch andere Verbrechen in Rosebud, aber seine Lieblingshobby war alles Robberie. An einer Nacht im März 1964 waren die meisten von den Residenzen in Rosebud schnell schlau. Aber Kenneth und ein ungenannter Kumpel entschieden, dass sie den Lot-Store in Fall County robben werden.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
And you're listening to Murder in America.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
So, an dieser Nacht, als die Dunkelheit in Rosebud, Texas aufging, schlug Kenneth und seine Freunde über die Gebäude, mit einem Bolzkutter in der Hand. Once they gained access to the store, they burglarized it, leaving with about $500 in cash from the safe, which is a little over five grand today with inflation. Now this experience left Kenneth feeling exhilarated. And within the next month,
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er und sein Bezirkslehrer würden drei mehr Stäuere in Milham County zerstören. Während dieser Zerstörung war Kenneth nicht mehr mit vielen Wertschätzungen weg. In der Tat, während eines, er und seine Freundin haben nur noch Ammunition und Eis-Creme-Bars genommen. In einem anderen hat er einige Werkzeuge in etwa 20 Dollar in Geld bekommen. Und er war nicht stehend, weil er das Geld benötigte.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth war gut. Es sah so aus, als ob die Zerstörungen mehr über das Gefühl, das es ihm gegeben hat, als über die Lüte.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber klar, Kenneth würde nicht die volle Entschuldigung verurteilen. In der Tat, später in diesem Jahr, am 29. Dezember 1965, nach nur neun Monaten im Gefängnis, wurde er verurteilt, wegen der Verbrechung. Und er fühlte keine Entschuldigung über seine Verbrechen.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
In der Tat, Jahre später, als Kenneth gefragt wurde, warum er glaubte, dass er mit so vielen Verbrechen weggehen könnte, lachte er und antwortete, Quote, all they was just pranks, Endquote. Und während seiner Zeit im Gefängnis wurde er definitiv nicht reformiert. In der Tat, wenn etwas passiert, hat das Gefängnis ihm beigebracht, ein besserer Kriminal zu werden.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Während seiner Zeit dort, hat er gelernt, auf schwere Individuen zu wehren. Wie zu manipulieren und Menschen zu kontrollieren. Nun, als er aus dem Gefängnis kam, hat 19-jähriger Kenneth sofort wieder an seinem Vaters Konkret-Business gearbeitet. Und währenddessen würde er einen Kollegen treffen, 18-jähriger Roy Dale Green, sein zukünftiger Vizepräsident.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth hat auch Roy erzählt, dass er schon mal Frauen getötet hat. Er hat ihm vorhin erzählt, dass, Quote, Killing a woman is like killing a chicken. They both squawk. Endquote. Und als Roy das gehört hat, war er überrascht. Hast du wirklich jemanden getötet, fragte er. Zu dem Kenneth sagte, dass er es getan hat. Er hat auch Roy erzählt, dass er seine Verbrecher in scharfen Gräbern gebeten hat.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nun, Roy würde später sagen, dass er nicht glaubte, dass Kenneth die Wahrheit erzählte. But that would all change on the night of Saturday, August 6th, 1966.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Dieser Tag begann wie jeder andere. Kenneth und Roy wogen früh auf, um einen Job an einem Ort in Temple, Texas zu informieren. Aber nach ein paar Stunden Konkret, war Kenneth auf dem Weg, etwas anderes zu machen. Er wollte ein paar Mädchen finden. Und er wollte speziell in die Stadt von Fort Worth gehen. die zwei Stunden lang weg war.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Am nächsten Tag fuhren die beiden zurück nach Hause, wurden gekleidet und hoppten dann in Kenneths neuer Dodge, welches von seiner Mutter ein Geschenk war, als er von der Gefängnis verurteilt wurde. Roy würde später sagen, dass er auf die nächste Reise gespannt war. Er war noch nie in Fort Worth.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er sagte auch, dass er nicht sicher war, warum Kenneth diese Stadt speziell wählte, aber er war froh, sich mit ihm zu verabschieden. Während der Fahrt haben die beiden ein paar Bier aus einem 7-Eleven gekauft und bald genug They had arrived to Fort Worth. Roy would later tell the police, Kenneth showed me the town. Once there, the two would share some drinks at a local bar.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
And while getting liquored up, Kenneth decided to call up an old love interest of his, named Edith. He asked Edith if she wanted to meet up at a local restaurant called Hamburger Hut. Und Edith hat geglaubt.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nun, ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob sie wusste, dass Kenneth eine Freundin hatte, aber als sie sich am Restaurant kennengelernt haben, hat Kenneth Roy um die Stadt gefahren, während er und Edith in der Rückseite saßen. Nach ein paar Stunden haben sie endlich entschieden, Edith an ihrem Zuhause zu verlassen, um 9.30 Uhr. Aber Kenneth war nicht fertig mit seinem Spaßabend.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Also von hier an, die beiden sind weitergefahren. Anschließend fuhren sie aus Fort Worth und fuhren nach der nahen Stadt von Everman. Die ganze Zeit schaut Kenneth aus dem Fenster. Er sucht nach einer schönen Frau. Bis jetzt ist es ziemlich spät, also waren die Straßen fast leer. Aber Kenneth war sicher, dass er jemanden finden würde.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er hat Roy sogar gesagt, dass er es gut ist, Teenager zu finden. Letztendlich, nach ein bisschen Fahrradfahren, Kenneth fuhr nach Evermann High School. Als er langsam die Kampagne führte, bemerkte er einen großen 1955 Ford, der an einem der beschlossenen Fußballflächen parkiert war. Als er näher kam, sah er, dass es drei Teenager, zwei Jungs und eine Mädchen gab.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und in diesem Moment bemerkte Kenneth, dass sie seine nächsten Gefühle werden.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Um 10 Uhr waren die Straßen von Evermann fast leer. Kenneth und Roy waren auf der Pralle, um eine Mädchen zu verurteilen. Und dann sah Kenneth das Parkfahrzeug auf dem Fußballplatz. Er sah, dass die Mädchen eine Petite Brunette war. Sie war fünf Füße, zwei Inchchen groß, rund 110 Pounden. Sie war in einem roten und weißen Strip-Shirt und blühen, geschnittenen Jeans. Louise war wunderschön.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und sobald Kenneth sie beobachtete, Er wusste, er hätte sein Ziel gefunden. Und es wird nichts geben, was in den Weg kommt. Selbst die beiden jüngeren Jungs, mit denen sie war. Gleichzeitig hat Kenneth in die Parkplatte gezogen, um Roy still zu bleiben. Und für ein paar Minuten hat er sie nur geschaut. In seinem kranken und zerstörten Geist
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er stellte sich alle Dinge vor, die er mit Luis machen wollte. Er zeigte auch die Jungs, um zu sehen, wie groß die Bedrohung war. Dann schlug er endlich an Roy und sagte, ich will ein bisschen Spaß haben. Roy würde später sagen, dass er dachte, Kenneth wollte nur die Teenager töten. Kenneth handelte ihm sogar einen gebrochenen Brustkopf, den er in der Rückseite hielt.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
while Kenneth grabbed his brother's .38 caliber revolver. And from there, they got out of the car. Kenneth quickly started walking towards the teenagers, with Roy following close behind. And soon enough, the teens saw the men coming in their direction. But before they could react, Die Waffe wurde direkt an sie gelegt.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth hat den Jungs gesagt, dass niemand getötet wird, so lange sie die Befehle folgten. Er hat sie dann beurteilt, ihre Walletten und die Schlüsseln zu Roberts Ford zu schicken. Sobald sie das gemacht haben, hat Kenneth den Trunk des Fords geöffnet. Er hat dann Robert und Marcus geschaut, den Trunk gelegt und gesagt, sich reinzunehmen. Verrückt waren die Jungs, als sie gesagt haben.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber Kenneth wollte Luis nicht in den Trunk. Sie würde mit ihm kommen. Also hat Kenneth sie mit dem Arm gefangen und sie zurückgezogen zu seinem Dodge. Währenddessen hat er Roy beurteilt, in den Ford zu kommen und nahe hinter ihm zu folgen. Roy hat auch, wie er gesagt hat, gemacht. In den nächsten wenigen Minuten fuhr Kenneth auf der Straße, um einen verschlossenen Ort zu suchen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Während der Fahrt hat Louise mit ihm gebeten, uns bitte nicht zu töten, sagte sie. Aber Kenneth war nicht interessiert in der Konversation. Schauend in das Rücksehsiegel sah er, dass Roy noch in der Ford folgte. Und schlussendlich hat Kenneth einen guten Ort gefunden, um auf der Farmmarktstraße zu stoppen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nachdem er das Auto parkiert hat, hat er Louise rausgeholt und sie in den Trunk ihres Dodge gebracht. Und das ist, weil er sie nicht sehen wollte, diese nächste Partie. Jetzt, dass sie in der Wildnis waren, wollte Kenneth die beiden jungen Jungs entfernen. Roy würde später sagen, dass er nicht wusste, dass Kenneth sie verletzen wollte, bis sie da raus kamen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber als Luis in der Hütte des Dodge war, sagte Roy folgendes.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und in diesem Moment hat er seine Waffe gefangen und die Schachtel geöffnet. Innerlich waren Robert und Markus furchtbar. Sie sahen Kenneth auf, mit ihm zu weinen, um ihre Leben zu sparen. Aber er hatte bereits seine Gedanken gemacht. Kenneth hat zuerst den Waffe an Robert gefangen. Der erste Schuss, den er gefangen hat, ging durch Roberts Ohr, aber der zweite war direkt durch seinen Vorhinein.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Neben ihm war Markus schreiend. Er hatte gerade gesehen, wie sein Cousin getötet wurde und er wusste, wer als nächstes war. Kenneth hat dann die Waffe an ihn gestoppt. Der erste Schuss ging durch seinen Arm und der zweite durch seinen Kopf. In Sekunden waren die beiden Cousins tot. Roy würde später sagen, dass er, als er all das gesehen hat, schockiert war.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er sagte, er hätte sogar seine Ohren geschlossen und weggeguckt. Er hatte keine Ahnung, dass das, was Kenneth machen wollte. Nachdem Kenneth die Jungs erschossen hat, hat Roy ihn gefragt, warum er das gemacht hat. Aber Kenneth hat ruhig geantwortet, es musste getan werden. Es gab keine Enttäuschung, keine Emotion, überhaupt.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth hatte Robert und Marcus nur so verurteilt, als ob es nichts gewesen wäre. Danach versuchte Kenneth den Trunk zu schalten, aber für irgendeinen Grund würde es nicht schließen. Stattdessen kam er in den Ford und schlug ihn gegen die Fenster. Der Ford war genug versteckt, dass man ihn von der Straße kaum sehen konnte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber Kenneth wusste, dass es sich schlussendlich finden würde, also hat er eine Kleidung genommen und das Innensein des Autos weggeschmissen, damit er und Roy's Fingerprint nicht innen gefunden werden würden. Er hat dann Roy beurteilt, die Tire-Tracks und den Dreck zu öffnen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Sobald Kenneth mit der Krimi-Szene zufrieden war, kamen die beiden zurück in Kenneths Dodge, wo Louise immer noch in der Hose gehalten wurde. Es ist furchtbar, zu denken, was in ihrem Gehirn war, in diesem Moment. Sie hat die Schüsse gehört. Sie hat den Schrein von Robert und Marcus gehört.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und sie hat wahrscheinlich Kenneth und Roy darüber gesprochen, dass sie Dinge umdrehen, damit sie wussten, dass sie tot waren. Dann hörte Louise das Fahrzeug an. Sie konnte fühlen, als sie auf der Straße fuhr. Kenneth und Roy waren jetzt auf dem Weg, einen neuen Ort zu finden, damit sie genau das tun könnten, was sie an der Nacht geplant hatten.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Sie fuhren nach Süd durch Johnson County, bis sie die kleine Stadt von Egan erreichten. Kenneth fuhr nach FM 917, einer isolierten Gravelstraße, und als es genug verschlüsselt war, stoppte er das Auto. Es war 11 Meilen entfernt von dem Ort, wo er Robert und Marcus gerade ermordet hatte. Und bald genug sah Louise den Trunk öffnen, weinend und fehlend für ihr Leben.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Sie hat weiter mit Kenneth gebeten, aber er hat sie mit dem Arm gefangen und sie aus dem Schrank geholt. Er hat sie dann umdrehen und in den Hintergrund ihres Autos geholt. Triggerwarnung auf diese nächste Part, aber es ist hier, wo Kenneth sie verabschiedet hat. Und ihr Schmerz war weit von vorbei. Als Kenneth fertig war, Er hat dann Roy auch verabschiedet, und das hat er getan.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Roy würde später sagen, dass er dafür gefordert wurde, und dass Kenneth eine Waffe an seinen Kopf hielt. Er hat auch gesagt, dass es ihm eine Weile dauerte, eine Erektion zu bekommen, aber er konnte es schließlich. Und Kenneth hat die ganze Sache geschaut. Dann, als Roy fertig war, hat Kenneth sie wieder verabschiedet. Aber auch dann hat er die arme Mädchen weiterhin verabschiedet.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nach den horrifischen Verabschiedungen Kenneth nahm den gebrochenen Armstuhl, der im Hinterseiteck satt war, und verletzte ihn horrifisch, um Luis' Körper zu verletzen. Roy sagte später, dass er niemals ihre anstrengenden Schreie vergessen würde, und wie sie immer sagte, Stopp! Ich denke, du hast etwas zerbrochen."
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Verärgert und blutig wurde Louise beurteilt, ihre Kleidung wieder anzunehmen und wieder in den Trunk zu kommen. Und wieder einmal fühlte sie, dass das Auto wieder aufhört. Kenneth und Roy fuhren zu yet another secluded location down the road. When they arrived, Kenneth ordered Louise out of the car and he told her to sit down on the ground. What are you going to do with me? Louise asked.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
But I think deep down, she knew. Like Robert and Marcus, Louise was not going to make it out alive. And that was confirmed when Kenneth grabbed that broken broomstick and began walking towards her. Louise tried to scream for help. But there was no one around to hear her. And in that moment, Kenneth straddled over her body and pressed the wooden stick up against her throat as hard as he could.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
The force was so intense, he broke multiple bones in her neck. Roy would later say, "...it sounded like air escaping out of a balloon or air hose." Luis schlug seine Arme französisch und schlug ihre Beine, um Kenneth von ihr wegzunehmen, aber es war nicht nötig. Kenneth schrie, dass Roy die Beine von Luis halten soll, während er sie tötete, und wiederum verurteilte Roy.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nach ein paar Minuten war Luis nicht mehr zurückgekommen. Sie war tot. Von dort an hielten Kenneth und Roy dann ihr lebensloses Körper, Kenneth hielt ihre Arme und Roy hielt ihre Beine. Und wie ein Stück Trash haben sie ihr Körper in die Wildnis geworfen. Aber bevor sie wegging, wollte Kenneth ein Souvenir.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er hat eine deutsche Kross-Necklace, die sie um ihren Nacken geworfen hat, zerbrochen und hat sie in seinen Koffer gesteckt. Dann hat er ihr Körper in Brust geworfen und sie haben die Szene verlassen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Währenddessen, in Alvarado, war Roberts Vater, Jack Brand, furchtbar. Er hatte gerade den Nachtschiff an seinem Job gearbeitet, und er kam endlich nach Hause um 2.15 Uhr. Aber als er sich in den Fahrer führte, bemerkte er, dass Roberts Auto nicht da war. Und sicher genug sah er, als er rein ging, dass Robert und Markus niemals nach Hause kamen. sofort wusste Jack, dass etwas falsch war.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Robert war ein guter Junge. Er hat nie einen Abfall verpasst. Jack ging also in sein Auto und begann, rund um die Stadt zu fahren, um seinen Sohn und Bruder zu suchen. Er würde später sagen, dass er die ganze Nacht suchte, ohne Glück. Roberts Schwester Fran wusste auch, dass etwas nicht richtig war.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Am nächsten Morgen, als Robert noch nicht nach Hause gekommen ist, hat seine Familie ihn vermisst. Aber in der Stadt von Evermann hatte Luises Mutter keine Ahnung, dass ihre Tochter vermisst war. Luis sollte nicht an der Nacht nach Hause kommen. Sie hatte eigentlich geplant, die Nacht mit ihrer Freundin Rhonda zu verbringen, der Mädchen, die sie die Nacht vorher mit ihnen verabschiedet hatte.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber bald genug kam eine Polizei auf ihre Tür. Luises Mutter glaubte, dass es eine Erklärung geben musste. Aber nach dem Gespräch mit Rhonda, Luises Freundin, lernte sie, dass Luis niemals an ihrer Haustür die Nacht vorher war. Und es ist an diesem Moment, wo alle anfingen zu paniken. Wo sind die drei Teenagern? Naja... Es würde nicht lange dauern, um Antworten zu bekommen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Am selben Morgen, als Luis, Robert und Marcus vermutlich verloren waren, hat ein Mann namens Bill Sanders entschieden, dass er fischen gehen will. Also hat er am Morgen sein Auto aufgeladen und hat angefangen, die Fahrt nach FM 1017 zu machen. Auf dem Weg hat er aus seinem Fenster geschaut, als er etwas Außergewöhnliches bemerkt hat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
off the road you could barely even see it but it was a car backed up against a fence bill thought to himself that maybe someone had crashed and needed some help so he decided to pull over and check it out as he got closer he noticed that the trunk of the car was wide open but he didn't see anyone nearby Das war, bis er in den Trunk schaute.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Zu Bills Schreck, als er die Runde umschloss, sah er die blutigen Körper von Robert und Marcus. Sie hatten beide klare Schläge in der Mitte ihres Vorhers. Von dort rief Bill schnell zu einem Haus auf der Straße und rief die Polizei an.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Dieser Verbrechen war so furchtbar, dass die Leute in ganz Texas darüber gesprochen haben. Selbst Menschen über zwei Stunden weg und in Rosebud. Am Tag nach den Mördern war Roy Dale Green mit seiner Mutter am Radio, als er plötzlich ein Broadcast über die beiden verletzten Teenager hörte. Und sofort brach er an, weinend.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Wenn du den Namen Kenneth Allen McDuff nennen würdest, werden viele Residenz von Rosebud genau wissen, über wen du sprichst. Für einige kann es sogar einen Schmerz auf die Spine bringen. Denn anders als die meisten der Residenz, die hier über die Jahre gelebt haben, die in Harmonie leben wollen und die Frieden behalten wollen, war Kenneth so schnell, als er herrschte, in Schmerz.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Seine Familie sagte, dass er angefangen hat zu schreien, Quote, mein Gott, ich muss jemandem sagen. Und das ist, als er seiner Familie verurteilt hat, dass er und Kenneth... waren verantwortlich. Glücklicherweise hat seine Mutter ihn überzeugt, sich hineinzutreten. Von dort an hat Roy den Robertson County Sheriff, Sonny Elliott, angerufen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und das war dann, als er ermittelt hat, dass er bei den Mördern von Robert, Marcus und Louise war. Roy wurde dann verhaftet und in den Robertson County Gefängnis genommen, bevor er nach Fort Worth geflüchtet wurde. In einem geschriebenen Statement hat Roy die gesamten Nachtsveranstaltungen beobachtet. Und das war dann, als er ihnen sagte, dass Kenneth Alan McDuff der Meister des Verbrechens war.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Hier ist ein Video von Roy, in dem er die Teilen des Verbrechens erklärt hat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Minutes later, investigators would come across the body of 16-year-old Louise Sullivan. She was hidden among some brush, lying face down near an oak tree. When word got out that a body had been found, her two uncles made their way to the scene and positively identified her.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
The brutal murders of Robert Brand, Marcus Dunham and Louise Sullivan instantly became front-page headlines across the state of Texas. Es wurde auch von Roy Dill Green erklärt, dass Louise von diesem gebrochenen Bruststück verabschiedet und getötet wurde. Die Medien bezeichneten die Verbrechungen schnell als Bruststück-Mörder.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber jetzt, dass die Teenager gefunden worden sind, war das nächste, was die Beobachter konzentriert waren, der Meistermind, Kenneth Allen McDuff. Nach dem Gespräch mit Roy lernten sie, dass Kenneth tatsächlich mit einer Frau ein Date mit einer Frau geplant hatte, diese Nacht. und dass das Mädchen die Name Joanne war.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nach einiger Untersuchung konnten die Detektivinnen die Identität dieser Mädchen finden und sie gingen sofort zu ihrer Mothers Haus, um die Situation zu erklären. Und nur für einen Moment, stell dir vor, dass deine Tochter gerade mit jemandem auf einer Beziehung ist, der gerade drei Menschen getötet hat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und das Schlimmste ist, dass Joannes Mutter keine Ahnung hatte, wo Kenneth ihre Tochter genommen hat, also konnte sie nur warten, bis sie nach Hause kam. Für Stunden haben die Arbeiter gewartet. Und am Ende, um 10.50 Uhr, haben sie Kenneths Auto gesehen. Aber er muss wissen haben, dass etwas passiert ist.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er wurde von Rosebud als ein Troublemaker mit einer schlechten Attitüde bekannt. Er würde mit Menschen starten, wo auch immer er hingeht. Und er war der Stadtbulli, der immer auf Menschen hielt, die kleiner waren als er. Er war die Antithese dafür, wofür die Menschen von Rosebud standen. Und seine gesamte Existenz würde ihre Reputation verbreiten. Kenneth wurde am 21.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Sobald er etwa halbwegs auf der Straße war, hat er das Auto schnell nach links gelegt und auf die Straße gefahren, mit Joanne noch in der Vorderseite. Die Arbeiter haben nahe hinter sich gefolgt. und bevor sie es wussten, gab es einen Schuss. Joanne fiel schnell auf den Boden des Autos. Glücklicherweise wurde sie nicht getroffen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber nach einiger Zeit konnten die Detektivs endlich mit ihm aufhören. Wissend, dass es nirgendwo weiter gehen würde, fuhr Kenneth McDuff aus seinem Auto mit seinen Händen in die Luft und er wurde schnell beurteilt. Die Arbeiter, die ihn verabschiedeten, sagten später, dass einer ihrer größten Leidenschaften in der Leben ist, dass sie Kenneth in diesem Schuss nicht getötet haben.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und ihr werdet später herausfinden, warum.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
März 1949 in der Stadt Paris, Texas geboren. Aber seine Familie schlug sich zu Rosebud kurz nach seinem Geburtstag. Seine Eltern, John Allen McDuff, der von J.A. ging, und seine Schwester Addie, hatten viele Kinder. Sechs, um es genau zu sagen. Und das ist wahrscheinlich so, weil J.A. seine Leben als Farmer begonnen hat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nun, in den nächsten Monaten begann die Verwaltung, ihren Fall gegen Kenneth Macduff zu bauen. Und ihr Starwitness war nichts anderes als sein Vizepräsident, Roy Dale Greene. Macduffs Mördertrial begann im November 1966. Er kam in die Gericht, mit einem dunklen Schuh und einem Kleid. Aber einer der Verwaltungen sagte später, seine Augen seien so kalt.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er hatte die kaltesten, deadesten Augen, die ich jemals gesehen habe. or want to see." End quote. Now, Kenneth's defense argued that he wasn't responsible and that the entire thing had been orchestrated and carried out by Roy Dale Green, a story that no one believed. But as you can imagine, Kenneth's mother, Addie McDuff, was his biggest supporter.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
She was very outspoken about how she believed her son was innocent. During the trial, she even told one of the reporters that Kenneth had actually been with a girl from church während der Jüngeren verurteilt wurden. Aber Kenneth wollte diesen Mädchen nicht anzeigen, um seinen Alibi zu bestätigen, weil er ihre Reputation nicht zerstören wollte. Addy sagte, er sei zu gut für sein eigenes Gut.
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EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Addy hatte einen guten Anwalt aus Waco eingeladen, um ihren Sohn zu repräsentieren. Und jeden Tag, als sie mit ihren fünf anderen Kindern in der Gerichtsschule sitzen, right across from the victims' families. Robert Brands' sister Fran said that she only went to the trial one of the days, and she never went back.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
And that's because, on the day she did go, when she walked out of the courtroom, Addie McDuff threatened her.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Es ist sehr hilfreich, Kinder zu haben, wenn man eine Farm hat, um die Arbeit zu machen. Aber eventuell würde J.A. seinen Karriereweg ändern. Nachdem er seine Familie in Rosebud, Texas, bewegte, Er hat ein Konkret-Business geöffnet, das sehr erfolgreich war. Seine Frau Addie, die als Domineerin beschrieben wurde, hat auch ein Business in der Stadt geöffnet. Der Rosebud Laundromat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Es gab einen starken Unterschied zwischen Roys und Kenneths Testimonien. Roy war nervös. Er schlief in seine Schuhe, und er versuchte, Augenkontakt zu machen. However, Kenneth remained calm and cool. Kenneth claimed that the police had been out to get him, that they had hated his entire family for years, which is why they tried to put the blame on him.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
But obviously, the jurors did not believe Kenneth's side of the story. And after only four hours of deliberation, they had returned with their verdict. As Kenneth was escorted back into the courtroom, he casually waved to his family members as he was led to the defense table. Judgement Aber Kenneth sagte, dass er die Nachrichten hinsetzen würde.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Wieder einmal gab es kein Zeichen von Enttäuschung oder Emotion. Aber an diesem Moment fand das Gericht Kenneth Macduff schuld. Und von dort an wurde er in der Texas Electric Chair verurteilt, besser bekannt als Old Sparky.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
But with the arrest and conviction of Kenneth McDuff, the mastermind of the Broomstick murders, the state of Texas felt a sense of relief. He was a monster living among them. And finally, justice had been served. Kenneth was scheduled to die by the electric chair on October 8th, 1968 und viele Menschen in der Gemeinschaft zählten die Tage, bis er seine letzte Atmung nahm.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber dieser Tag würde nicht kommen. Und glaubt es oder nicht, hatte das Staat Texas nicht die letzte, of Kenneth McDuff. This death row inmate would somehow get released back into society. And as you'll hear in part two of this story, he would go on to kill again.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
So make sure to join us next week as we tell you about the other victims murdered at the hands of the broomstick killer, Kenneth McDuff.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Das war wahrscheinlich der einzige in der Stadt, also war es auch erfolgreich. Das war schön, weil sie viele Mäuse zu füllen hatten.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Sie sagten, dass sie ziemlich volatil und ungestattet war. Sie regierte ihr Haus mit einem roten Fist. Addie kontrollierte die Finanzen, die Kinder und jede Entscheidung, die sie gemacht hatte, musste durch sie gehen. Es wurde auch gesagt, dass sie extrem überprotektiv von ihren Kindern war. Newspaper-Editor John Kilmore erinnerte, dass die Macduffs sehr auf ihre Kinder beteiligt waren.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
In der Welt des echten Krimis gibt es viel Reden über Serialkiller. Besonders die berühmten, wie Gacy, Dahmer und Bundy. Aber während meiner Recherche über den echten Krimi habe ich gelernt, dass Amerika voller Serialkiller ist. Und wenn du nahe bist, wirst du sie in jedem Staat finden.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aufmerksamkeit. Aber vielleicht war Addie Macduff zu verteidigend, besonders als es zu ihrem Sohn Kenneth kam. Wie wir erwähnt haben, hatten J.A. und Addie sechs Kinder, vier Mädchen und zwei Jungs. Aber Kenneth war auf jeden Fall Addies Lieblingsmann. Er war nicht der jüngste ihrer Kinder, aber er wurde sicherlich so behandelt.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Jetzt begann Kenneth, sich in Schwierigkeiten zu machen, als er sehr jung war. Nachbarn, Eltern und Schulanwälte riefen ständig nach Hause und berichten über sein schlechtes Verhalten. Aber Addie versuchte nicht zu glauben, dass ihr Sohn jemals das Problem war. In ihren Augen konnte Kenneth nichts falsch machen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
In einem Jahr hat Kenneth und sein älterer Bruder Lonnie eine Verletzung auf ihrem Schulbus verursacht. Aber anstatt ihre Kinder zu verurteilen, Addie hat mit einem Pistol in der Hand auf dem Bus zur Schule gestürzt. Sie hat den Busfahrer bedroht. Von diesem Moment an nannten die Leute in der Stadt ihren Namen Pistolpacking Mama.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Rosebud-Besitzerin Fann Hargrove hat mit True Crime Reporter Robert Riggs gesprochen. Und hier ist, was sie von dieser Erfahrung gesagt hat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Die Leute in Rosebud, Texas haben sich sichergestellt, von der Macduff-Familie weit entfernt zu bleiben. Sie waren definitiv nicht eine Familie, die man messen wollte. Fran erinnert sich an eine andere Geschichte, in der Addie Macduff in einen Bank eingewandert wurde. Und am Teller-Desk saß dieser Stapler. Addie sagte dem Teller offensichtlich, dass sie das immer gewollt hatte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Sie hat dann den Stapler aufgeholt und hat ihn in ihre Tasche gesetzt. Der Berichter würde später sagen, dass sie Addy nicht einmal übersteuern wollte, weil alle wussten, dass sie die Pistolpack-Mama war. Und es sah so aus, als ob die Äpfel nicht weit vom Baum fallen, weil einige ihrer Kinder so gefreut waren.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Killer, die Schmerzen an kleinen Städten verursachen, die so viele Opfer wie möglich töten, bis sie getötet werden. Die Wahrheit ist, dass es einige Serialkiller gibt, über die du noch nie gehört hast. Manche bekommen nicht die gleiche Aufmerksamkeit wie Gacy, Dahmer und Bundy. Aber im Endeffekt sind sie manchmal einfach so schlimm. Heute geht es um einen Mann namens Kenneth Allen McDuff.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth war nicht der schönste Student in der Schule. Es wurde berichtet, dass sein IQ 92 war. Wegen dessen musste er oft in den Büro von Ellen Roberts gehen, der speziellen Bildungslehrerin war. Sie erinnerte sich später darauf, als sie ihn Fragen stellte, Kenneth versuchte, mit ihr zu interagieren. Sie antwortete, er saß dort in stonigem Stille und versuchte, Augenkontakt zu machen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Das war der ungewöhnliche junge Junge. Jetzt, sein Unwissenheit war definitiv eine Unschuld von ihm. but he tried his best to make it seem like it wasn't. When Kenneth would fail a test, he would tell his classmates that he meant to fail it and he just didn't care about school.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
One classmate said, Kenneth would make sure everyone in class knew about it, make some kind of joke just to let everyone know he did it on purpose and didn't give a damn." Kenneth liebte auch Bullying, seine Klassenleute und sogar seine Lehrer. Eines seiner Lieblingsmöglichkeiten war es, Kinder ein Spiel mit flippenden Quartern zu spielen, was im Grunde eine Art Gambling war.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und er würde die Kinder spielen, bis er alle ihre Lunchmoney genommen hätte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Was wahr war. Kenneth und seine Brüder hatten alles, was sie brauchten, um ein gutes Leben zu leben. Produktive Leben. Sie lebten in einem schönen 2-Storey-Haus auf Linden Street. Sie hatten Geld. Sie gingen an die Kirche am Sonntag. Und sie waren privilegiert. Aber etwas war falsch. Einige Leute würden behaupten, dass vielleicht Kenneths Vater, J.A., nicht so viel an seiner Kindheit war.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Wie wir erwähnt haben, hat er eine sehr erfolgreiche Konkret-Business, also war er nicht viel da. In Wahrheit sahen die Nachbarn kaum J.A., weil er die meiste Zeit im Büro verbracht hat. Aber hinter geschlossenen Türen, als J.A. da war, war er bekannt, dass er ziemlich brutal gegen seine Kinder war. Es wurde berichtet, dass er in gewaltige Räge fliege.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und zu einem Zeitpunkt hat er sogar seine Tochter von einem Waldrafter von der Rüste heruntergelassen und sie mit einem Horsenheft getötet. Laut der Geschichte hat J.A. die ganze Familie aufgeschaut und nachdem er fertig war mit der Tötung, hat er seine Frau Addie um ihre Schmerzen mit Alkohol gebraten. Aber wiederum hat J.A. und Addie Kenneth niemals so etwas verurteilt.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Für irgendeinen Grund wurde er einfach verlassen, aber er hat seine Brüder verletzt, was vielleicht dazu gehörte, wer er später werden würde.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Als Kenneth zur Puberte kam, wurde er sehr alt. Und je höher er wurde, desto mehr versuchte er, die Menschen um ihn herum zu enttäuschen. Laut seinen Klassenleuten war er laut und unangenehm, und er würde oft auf Jungs auswählen, die viel kleiner waren als er. Die Leute sagten, wenn er ein Ziel gefunden hätte, würde er alles sagen, was er denken könnte, um sie zu zerstören.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
who terrorized the state of Texas for decades. He also managed to slip through the cracks of law enforcement more times than you'd ever imagine. And because of that, at least nine people would lose their lives. So this is the story of serial killer Kenneth Allen McDuff. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und er bekam diesen kranken Ausdruck von Enttäuschung auf seinem Gesicht, desto gefährlicher wurde dieser Mensch. Wegen dessen war jeder in der Schule für ihn furchtbar. Während alle, aber ein Junge namens Tommy Sammons. Tommy war ein populärer Athlet bei Rosebud High School. Und für Jahre hat er gesehen, wie Kenneth McDuff seine Klassenleute zerstört hat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber dann, eines Tages, während er im Wohnzimmer war, stürzte Kenneth in Tommy ein und begann, ihn vor allen zu beraten. Er hat Tommy anscheinend einen Hühnchen genannt. Und endlich hatte Tommy genug. The boys agreed to meet after school by the drainage ditch so they could fight it out. Now Tommy was much smaller than Kenneth, but he was muscular and athletic.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
He was described as a good kid who didn't really get into fights with people, but for Kenneth, he was up for the challenge. Former classmate Ellen Roberts said, "...Kenneth was so hated." So that day when the final bell rang, the two made their way outside, along with the entire school. Everyone was ready to watch the fight between Tommy Sammons and the school bully. Kenneth Macduff.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nun, viele Menschen glauben, dass Tommy verlieren wird, da er so klein war. Aber kurz nachdem der Kampf begann, konnte er Kenneth in den Kopf locken. Gleichzeitig begann die ganze Schule zu schreien. Kenneth verlor deutlich den Kampf. Um aus dem Kopfblock zu kommen, hat Kenneth auf Tommys Arm geschlagen. Aber sobald er losging, ließ Tommy mehrere harte Schüsse nach Kenneths Gesicht.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und das Publikum ging absolut wild. Einer der Klassenleute würde später sagen, dass Tommys Brot aus ihm ausgeworfen wurde. Und wie man sich vorstellen kann, wurde jemand, der so viel kleiner war als er, vor der ganzen Schule verletzt. Der Kampf war alles, worüber jeder reden konnte. Und das war ein so riesiges Event in Kenneths Leben. Er hat sogar eine Schule verlassen, ein paar Wochen später.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
She went on to work several jobs in the world of publishing, and eventually, she married a man named James H. Davis, who was the student body president at UCLA in June of 1951. Soon after their marriage, the two purchased the home in the Los Feliz Hills that would one day be known as the Writer's Villa.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Kathy's husband, James, went on to become a prominent attorney, and Miss Kathy focused her efforts on raising their daughter. But their marriage wouldn't last long. There are a few different accounts on what happened, but what we do know is this. In 2001, at the age of 71, her husband, James, was arrested and jailed for 12 years for stealing from the clients he was meant to defend.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
An LA Times article notes, quote, Judge Robert Perry had to consider the severity of his crimes and the vulnerability of the victims, many of whom were paraplegics who did not speak English, end quote. So he took advantage of people and he had to pay the price. When you contrast that with what we know of Ms. Cathy's personality, it's easy to see why the two weren't a good match.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
As easy as it is to imagine all the glitz and glamour of fame, the reality of achieving it is much more gritty, soul-crushing and exhausting than people realize. Imagine going to audition after audition, having your work, looks and voice picked apart in front of all these people, having to deal with constant rejections.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And for many, they'll make it far enough where their dreams are just out of reach, only for the rug to be ripped out from under them. Maybe a role is given to someone else, or maybe you get the role and then the entire project falls through in a blink of an eye. This is the reality for many people in Hollywood. It's harsh, unforgiving, and nothing is promised.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
It doesn't matter how good you are at what you do, sometimes it just doesn't work out. And Miss Cathy knew this. When an audition went poorly for an actor or a pitch was a flop for a writer, she would be waiting in the kitchen of the writer's villa with open arms. She would often make them homemade tamales, sit with her Hollywood children and give them the comfort they desperately needed.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The majority of people flocking to Hollywood have families that are hundreds, if not thousands of miles away. And usually these far away families don't understand the line of work that they're trying to get into. and very often they don't support it. But Miss Kathy was the parent and guiding force that dozens of people needed as they embarked on their journey into Hollywood.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
A journey that offers no training wheels and no mercy for newbies.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In the summer of 2009, Johnny was told that he was going to be a father. His girlfriend at the time, Diane Ghida, was a talented actress, artist, and producer.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Now the exact state of their relationship over the course of her pregnancy isn't entirely clear, but evidently, the two got apartment together in Hollywood with the intention of co-parenting their daughter, regardless of the status of their relationship. But in time, this agreement began to fall apart. Some people just don't work out, and it seems like that was the case for Johnny and Diane.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
However, Johnny's friend, Doug Usher, told the LA Mag that Johnny was beyond thrilled to become a dad, and that at the baby shower, everything seemed to be going well. By April of 2010, Johnny and Diane's daughter, Cola Mae, was born, and their entire lives changed. But soon enough... After several months of trying to co-parent, the two hit a fork in the road.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
There are very few details about what happened between them, but it is known that a custody battle began and that it was vicious. Close friends and family have described this period of Johnny's life as rather tumultuous.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But just two years after the filming of Lovely Molly in October of 2011, it was a blow to Johnny's head that would ultimately lead to his downfall. On October 30th, 2011, Johnny went for a motorcycle ride to clear his head. During the filming of Sons of Anarchy, he fell in love with motorcycles and ultimately purchased his pride and joy, a Triumph motorcycle affectionately nicknamed Bonnie.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
On that warm October day, Johnny decided to take Bonnie for a road trip towards Joshua Tree National Park. And if you've ever been to this part of California, you know the appeal of just driving into the desert to get your mind in order. From the concrete jungle of Los Angeles, you can hop on the 10 freeway and watch the city disappear behind you.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Within a few short hours, there will be nothing on either side of you but distant mountains, orange rock formations, and Joshua trees that reach up to the blue sky. The drive itself, watching the world disappear behind you and replaced by nature is therapeutic. And it seems at the time that Johnny needed this, but the ride wouldn't go as planned.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Along the drive, Johnny hit 29 Palms, a desert town just north of Joshua Tree National Park. And as he blew through the town and out on the other side, making his way towards the more open desert, something went wrong. No one knows exactly how the crash happened, but near the corner of 29 Palms Highway and Primrose Lane, Johnny hit the ground hard and fast.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
He later told his brother and medical workers that he believed he was going around 50 miles per hour at the time of the accident. And it's never been reported if he was wearing a helmet. But with his bike beat up and his head spinning, he reached out to his brother for a ride back to L.A.,
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
At a nearby hospital, he was checked for signs of a concussion, but he was allowed to leave after they determined he didn't have one. But according to the National Center for Biotechnology Information, there is growing evidence to suggest that traumatic brain injuries can often show no outward signs immediately following a head injury.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Thank you.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
By January of 2012, those around him could no longer ignore his strange behavior. According to his father, it was around this time that Johnny began to sit in near total darkness. On his blog, Johnny's father wrote, quote, his sensitivity to light was such that he would prefer to sit in a room with all the lights out, illuminated by one candle.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Extreme sensitivity to light is one of the most common symptoms of a traumatic brain injury. And knowing something was deeply wrong, Johnny's parents decided to keep a close eye on him. On Sunday morning, January 3rd, 2012, he was relaxing at his parents' condo in Northridge. As his mom cooked omelets on the stove, Johnny stood up abruptly, still wearing his pajamas.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
He told his mother that he was going for a walk and he headed out the door. But what happened next still isn't entirely clear. According to Johnny's retelling of events, as he was walking, he thought he heard a woman scream for help in a nearby condo. So in a panic, he broke in the window only to discover that the apartment was completely empty.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Now on the street, two men actually saw him break into this window and they approached him and demanded that he leave. But in response, Johnny attacked the men with a glass bottle, hitting each of them over the head. From there, the three began to viciously fight. Johnny even bit one of the men in their arm, but eventually he was overpowered and the men pinned him to the ground.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
At the trial, one of these men who pinned him down stated that as they did so, he continued to fight and thrash. And to try and stop him, he punched Johnny in the face anywhere from 10 to 15 times before law enforcement arrived. When they finally pulled up, Johnny was hauled to jail and charged with trespassing, burglary, and assault with a deadly weapon.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But in January of 2012, he was huddled in the corner of a dark room in his parents' condo, unable to be in the light, unable to carry on a meaningful conversation, or do much of anything but feel fear, confusion, and anger. And I don't know about you, but the fact that that can happen to anyone at any time is terrifying.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Upon being discharged from the hospital, Johnny's papers read, quote, "'Chief complaint,' blunt head trauma, and suicidal. And this didn't change when he was released. Sometime in January, Johnny cut open his wrists in a suicide attempt. These cuts were one inch long on his left wrist and several inches on his right. but it would later be noted that they were well-heeled.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And sadly, despite his suicide attempts, he was able to move to Santa Monica and live on his own. Now, we aren't here to cast blame, but in Johnny's state, I can't imagine him living alone. And tragically, his move to Santa Monica went about as well as you can expect. One night in mid-February, a passerby walking on the beach in Santa Monica noticed something in the dark waves.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
When they got closer, they realized it was a man. He was fully clothed and walking deeper into the churning frigid waves. The witness actually helped pull him out of the water and called an ambulance that would rush him to the hospital. There, Johnny was treated for hypothermia and he was released.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Within just two weeks of this incident, he was arrested twice for increasingly bizarre and concerning behavior. On February 10th, he was arrested for punching a man in the face outside of a yogurt shop. And it was completely unprompted. For that incident, he was released on a $20,000 bail.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But he wouldn't stay out of trouble because just days later on February 18th, Johnny was arrested once more for attempting to break into a woman's apartment. When asked by police, he told them that he believed it was the home of a friend. But again, after his arrest, he was let go on bail.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
As for their son, Johnny, he was the middle child, wedged between his older sister, Anna, and his younger brother, Eric. And while we normally begin stories about people who commit horrible crimes with a peek at a traumatic childhood, that wasn't the case with Johnny Lewis. By all accounts, he wasn't a monster mutilating neighborhood pets.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
There are millions of people around the world whose dream is to be widely known. People who want their names in the spotlight. Maybe they wanna sing, perform on Broadway, or maybe even star in movies. For a lot of these people, they will move to places like Hollywood or New York City, and they'll work for years to get their big break in showbiz.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Not only did they denounce the existence of mental health conditions in this paragraph, but they also compared taking antidepressants to brutal lobotomies, which 19.3 of adult US population does daily. We think it's fair to say that Johnny was in desperate need of treatment, whether that was medication, counseling,
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
or the two combined, which is the recommended course of action for people suffering with psychosis. Now, we aren't saying that everyone needs to be medicated, but in the documentary In Search Of, starring Johnny's brother, Eric, he states that his parents didn't believe in medication.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And though Eric fought to put Johnny in the facility to keep him on the right medication and to keep him into treatment,
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
He wasn't starting fires or getting in fights with people, and he stayed out of trouble. All of those heinous acts would come much later. The little Johnny Lewis growing up in Sherman Oaks was beloved and kind, and he seemed to have a magical, almost magnetic quality about him.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
he claims that his parents wanted to keep him off the psychiatric medication but johnny's father denies this saying that he quote tried everything to help his son end quote but regardless johnny ended up at ridgeview ranch a now closed treatment center for substance abuse and psychosis
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In line with the rules of Scientology that Ridgeview was affiliated with, there was no prescribed psychiatric medication at the facility. However, over the next few months, Johnny seemingly began to improve. In July, he wrote in his journal, quote, felt more whole today, more complete, like parts of myself had been stolen in my sleep and scattered all over the world.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And now they've begun to return. I'm more determined than ever now. I'll face what I am. I'll face what I was." End quote. But sadly, it seems like that feeling didn't last long. In late July, Johnny went to trial for the aggravated assault at the condo in Northridge from the previous January. His attorney wanted to approach the judge with a proposal.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
If Johnny spent a year at Ridgeview, he wouldn't have to go to jail whatsoever. But at this time, Johnny wasn't in his right mind. He was confident that his case would be dropped because he believed he acted in self-defense. So he fired his attorney and decided to act as his own. But this of course didn't work out as planned.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Instead of receiving no sentence or simply going to Ridgeview, Johnny was sentenced to a year in prison.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In his brother Eric's 2018 documentary titled In Search Of, Eric describes his older brother in a way that I'm sure many younger siblings can relate to. He said, quote, he taught me love and compassion and grit and pride and vulnerability. He taught me how to be a human, end quote.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
On September 24th, Johnny moved back into the Red Room, the same suite he had stayed in when his career was just kicking off. He told his friends and family that he wanted to settle down and start digging into his real passion, writing and poetry. He intended to work on his book at the writer's villa, but that never happened. And this is where we see some discrepancies in the timeline.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Now Johnny's father claimed that he was excited to go back to the writer's villa and that it was initially his idea. However, in the documentary In Search Of, Johnny's close friend Jonathan Tucker states that Johnny called him on the 24th the same day that he moved into the villa, and he asked if he could stay with him for a while.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Here is that voicemail from the documentary, allegedly recorded just two days before Johnny went on a murderous rampage.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Now this isn't touched on more deeply in the documentary, but to us, it was of huge importance. Jonathan's close lifelong friends were scared of him. So scared that they wouldn't allow him to stay in their home out of fear of their family's safety. They clearly saw him as a time bomb. And though we have many details about his behavior, we don't have all of them.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
How much worse was his mental health than what was released to the public? Now that same day, September 24th, Johnny's father reportedly called him to check in, but when he answered, Johnny was agitated. His dad said that he answered the phone angrily, quickly snapping that he was busy, and he demanded to know what his dad wanted.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But shortly after their conversation, he began to calm down, and that was the last time Johnny's father ever spoke to his son. However, his brother hadn't spoken to him in several days.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
That day in autumn was September 26th, 2012. Dan Blackburn, the neighbor of Miss Kathy, had been watching out of his window, skeptically eyeing the disheveled looking man pacing up and down the road. This man, of course, was Johnny Lewis. He was shirtless and wearing nothing but a pair of jeans and bright red shoes. He was soaked with sweat and had a distant hollow look in his eyes.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
After pacing for about 15 minutes, Johnny approached Dan. He introduced himself as John, Dan's new neighbor. And then suddenly, he turned around and walked away. And in that moment, Dan had this sinking feeling in his chest. Something about their interaction was unusual. However, Dan brushed it aside. After all, artists were known to be a bit unconventional.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
So from there, he went on with his daily routine. But about a half hour later, Dan's wife, Gloria, began to scream. Not knowing what was going on, Dan ran through the house and found his wife on the patio with a look of horror on her face. He quickly looked out to see what she was looking at. And there he saw Johnny Lewis pinning a man to the ground. The man was a painter working on a nearby home.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And horrifically, there was blood stained all over the worker's face and Johnny's fist. Dan watched as Johnny Lewis punched the worker in the face over and over again, pummeling him and throwing droplets of blood all over himself and the ground around him. Dan quickly rushed to the painter's rescue, throwing Johnny off of him. But in response, Johnny decked Dan in the face with a hard, fast punch.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
When describing the scene, Dan told LA Mag, quote, his expression was flat. his gaze distant, but he seemed to have supernatural strength, end quote. And Dan quickly knew that he was fighting for his life. When Johnny approached him again, Dan punched him in the face, but Johnny didn't even react. He didn't flinch. He didn't cry out. It was like hitting a brick wall.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Finally, Dan managed to get an upper hand by slamming a patio chair against Johnny. From there, the painter and Dan quickly raced into the house to escape. But as they tried to shut the door, Johnny threw his arm through the crack at the last minute. It was like a scene out of The Shining. And from the sounds of things... that's not very far off.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In that moment, Dan the painter and Dan's wife, Gloria, repeatedly slammed their bodies against the door in an attempt to get it closed. But Johnny refused to move his arm, reaching for them like a madman. Finally, after four hard slams, Johnny pulled his arm out, allowing the Blackburns to lock their door and barricade themselves.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
From there, they frantically called the police, who had no idea what kind of horrific scene they were about to walk into.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
When detectives entered the writer's villa just moments later, it became very clear who had strangled him and that it was in self-defense. Now the first floor of the villa was pristine, lined with art and very organized. But the second floor was a wildly different story. As law enforcement walked up the stairs, they noticed broken glass littered across the floor.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And upon entering the master bedroom, they found a grisly scene. The room was coated in blood. The walls, the bed, the tables, and the chairs in the room were all stained with crimson red. Every mirror in the room and in the bathrooms had been shattered into a million pieces. But in the center of the mayhem, lying next to her bed, was Miss Kathy Davis.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And although Johnny's childhood was normal, in the sense that he grew up in a loving home, it was pretty different from other kids his age. In fact, at just six years old, his mother took him to his very first audition. And by seven years old, he had landed his first acting role. Now, we couldn't find much information about whether acting was Johnny's idea or his mother's,
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
At 81 years old, after being a Hollywood mom to hundreds of people, she had met a violent, terrible end. The coroner's report described the blunt force trauma as follows, quote, it fractured her entire skull and obliterated the left side of her face, leaving her brain exposed. Brain and tissue matter seen on the floor around her. Her face is covered in blood.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Her nose split down the middle and upper jaw is split open, end quote.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Upon further investigation, detectives came to believe that Johnny beat Miss Kathy with a rusty hammer that was found in his room. Horrifically, he then punched her repeatedly and strangled her with his bare hands. The beating was so violent and the injuries on Miss Kathy were so gruesome that investigators believe that Johnny had stomped on her head
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
after he suffocated her in addition to the brutal punches kicks and hits with the hammer she had four puncture wounds on her cheeks which were likely from a mechanical pencil found beside her body this was definitely overkill but why sadly as detectives continued to walk through the scene they also believe that they also found that after johnny killed miss kathy
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
he moved on to Jessie, her cat, who was constantly by her side as her loyal companion. It's likely that Jessie was in the room at the time of her attack. But to this day, no one knows exactly what set Johnny off. Miss Cathy was known to be kind to everyone, understanding, and above all, helpful. The two had never been seen arguing, there were never any screams heard coming from the house,
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And both only had nice things to say about each other. As the media learned about the violent attack, it seemed as if the entire city was in mourning. And at the same time, they were enamored with the news. After all, Johnny Lewis was a famous actor. So how did he go from being on our TV screens to a violent murderer, especially to a woman like Ms. Cathy.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The people who knew her spoke publicly about how she was essentially an angel. Actor Taylor Negron told magazine XO Jane that she was a quote, "'Hollywood legend, a near saint, and a kind and loving mother to so many.'" including me, end quote. And then there was the coverage of Johnny, and it was sensational and fueled with rumors. The following clips are from the Daily Buzz and Clevver News.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
but her support of his career would last for the rest of his life. His first acting gig was actually a video about escalator safety, and in it, he acted with an animated raccoon. It was obviously a small role, but it seemed to jumpstart a passion for him, because from there on out, throughout his childhood and prepubescent years, he was frequently casted in commercials, like this Pizza Hut ad.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
So what could have driven Johnny Lewis to commit this heinous act? Some suggest that it was just the brain injury. Others believe that Johnny already had an underlying psychiatric disorder that was worsened by the brain injury he sustained. According to an article published in the National Library of Medicine, quote,
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
once considered a largely benign phenomenon, is known to be associated with a range of affective symptoms, with suicidality, with worsening or new onset of several psychiatric disorders." And we've seen in many stories we've covered in the past how brain injuries can cause people to become violent,
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
down the road so is this what happened to johnny lewis we may never know but after the crime his family has worked hard to promote education about traumatic brain injuries and this story is just tragic all around johnny lewis had it all he was living out the dream that so many people would give anything to have but in the end he Fame, money, and notoriety clearly isn't everything.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Within a few short years, Johnny Lewis went from being a beloved actor to a violent killer.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And before we end the episode today, we do have a shout out to two very special listeners of ours, and their names are Tess and Angel. I recently just connected with Tess on TikTok, and she told me that on December 9th, three years ago, she and Angel really bonded over our podcast. And just this past week, they got engaged. So congratulations, you two. We are so, so happy for you.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And we just want to thank you for being loyal listeners for all these years. And we wish you a lifetime of happiness.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
¶¶
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Of course, being a teen of the 90s, Johnny was wearing his hair with some spiky frosted tips, which gave him the look of a classic teen heartthrob. This very look, in addition to his acting skills, caught people's eye and eventually propelled him out of commercials and into movie and television roles. His rise to fame started with a guest role in 7th Heaven.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
where he played a baggy pants-wearing, rap-listening teenager. And if you've seen any of Seventh Heaven, you know that it made him the antagonist of the episode. But then in the year 2000, Johnny took on a role as a straight-laced cadet in Malcolm in the Middle. And in 2004, he acted in several episodes of Drake and Josh, which is the first time I remember seeing him.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
He was the drummer in Drake's band. In one episode, he gets the band in trouble for his unique method of getting them all tickets to a show.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But this was only the beginning for Johnny. He went on to star as one of the main cast members in the Fox sitcom, Quintuplets. And he also took a reoccurring role in the wildly popular teen drama, The O.C. Around this time, it looked like he was on his way to becoming a Hollywood staple.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
However, the reality is only a fraction of the people with this dream will actually go on to achieve it. As we know, the industry is pretty selective. So the stars that do make it big are the lucky ones. They have it all. Money, fame, nice houses, luxury cars, notoriety. But sometimes being at the top isn't all that it's made out to be.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Not only had he acted in some of the most popular shows of the era, but he had made some loyal friends and good connections while doing it.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Now remember, this was 2005. At the time, Katy Perry was an up and coming name, trying her hardest to make her mark on the world. After breaking away from the Christian genre that she had started her career in, she was wetting her feet in the world of secular music. From 2004 to 2007, she went to several different record labels trying to find a home.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And like Johnny, she was exploring the impact she wanted to have on the world of art. And for around a year, they explored that together. Both Johnny and Katy Perry appeared on red carpets. They went to parties together and they attended many concerts over the years. And in all of the pictures of them, they're wrapped up in each other's arms.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
It's obvious that they were in love, but neither of them would have any idea that they were on the cusp of life-changing success. Now the couple would end up parting ways before either of them had their big break. They announced that they had separated by 2006 and the exact details on their breakup are still a little unclear.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But years down the road, a source close to Katy Perry told ABC News that her song, The One That Got Away, was partially written about Johnny Lewis. Just in case you forgot what those lyrics are, it goes, "'In another life, I would be your girl. We keep all our promises, be us against the world. In another life, I would make you stay, so I don't have to say you were the one that got away.'"
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The song was about young love, and whatever the reason was why they broke up, it's clear that they still shared a mutual respect for one another. However, neither of them would ever speak about the breakup publicly.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And in the story we have for you today, you'll see just how true that statement is. In the early 2000s, actor Johnny Lewis was on his way to becoming a household name. At just 28 years old, he had already starred in the main cast of four popular TV shows, becoming a fan favorite character in the breakout hit, Sons of Anarchy.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
As season one wrapped up production and season two began, Johnny started to talk to the executive producer and creator, Kurt Sutter. In a 2009 interview with Alan Sepinwall of the Star-Ledger, Kirk stated, quote, "'Johnny wasn't happy on the show. Creatively, he wanted out of the contract. People are going to have their reaction, but I don't want an actor that's not happy.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
It's not good for the actor and it's not good for the show. I love Johnny.'" I'd work with him again in a heartbeat. But because Johnny was not happy with his role in Sons of Anarchy, the creator, Kurt Sutter, eventually sent him an email informing him that his character would be killed off. The email read the following.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Johnny's father would later say that his interest in quitting the show was purely creative and that it had nothing to do with anyone on set or his own love of acting. In an interview with LA Mag, Michael stated, quote, he told us he left because the show was getting into gratuitous violence. He didn't want to communicate that as an artist, end quote.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Now, in hindsight, this statement is full of irony because the story of Johnny Lewis would soon end in violence. But at the time, He was so concerned about portraying violence that he left the most profitable and successful role of his career, one that most actors would give anything to have.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
He also walked the red carpets with his once girlfriend, pop star Katy Perry. But in late 2012... Johnny Lewis came in the spotlight for a very different reason. So this is his story. I'm Courtney Browen.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But the home actually wasn't for sale. A woman named Catherine Davis had owned it since 1958, and she was only interested in renting it out. So when Johnny Lewis, the young and successful actor, came to tour it, she was happy to rent it out to him. Now, Catherine Davis was born in 1930 in Dallas, Texas, but she moved to Los Angeles in 1950 to attend UCLA.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
At the time, only 21% of students attending college in the United States were women, and only 1.2% of all eligible women in America attended college. Ms. Cathy was unconventional, independent, hardworking, and a fearless woman in her early 20s, but she would remain that way for the next 60 years of her life.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nun, ihr Vater war an der Zeit am Arbeit, also hat sie entschieden, ihre Mutter in Redlands, Kalifornien zu nennen. Für Reference, das ist eine 11-Hour-Fahrt weg, etwa 680 Meilen. Also, als ihre Mutter den Anruf bekam, dachte sie, dass ihre Tochter nur aufmerksam war, aber das ist überhaupt nicht so, wie dieser Anruf gehen würde.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Als Pamela antwortete, erzählte Gracelyn ihr über den roten Van, der ihr am Tag vorbeigekommen hatte, und sie war furchtbar, dass es etwas mit Ashlyn und Ian zu tun hatte, nicht nach Hause zu kommen. Und sobald sie es gesagt hat, wusste Pamela, dass ihre Tochter recht war. Sie wusste direkt dann, dass ihre Kinder verabschiedet worden waren und sie nicht einen Moment Zeit verwenden würde.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Gleichzeitig hang Pamela den Telefon auf und rief die Navajo Nation Polizei.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Die beiden sollten immer noch hier sein, ihre Zähne zu malen, mit ihren liebsten Pets zu spielen, Geheimnisse zu ihren Freunden bei den Schlafzimmern zu sprühen. Aber stattdessen sind sie tot. Und ihre Gemeinschaften sind in Mord. Ashlands Tod im Jahr 2017 spart Veränderungen in der Art und Weise, wie die nativale und die städtische Gefährdung heute arbeiten.
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Ungefährdend ist, dass die gleiche Umgebung andere Probleme erzeugt, wie das Problem, das Pamela Foster am 2. Mai, kurz nach 4 Uhr, hatte, als sie die Navajo Nation Police Department für Hilfe fragte. Sie sagte Esquire, Quote, Sie hielten mich immer auf und verabschiedeten mich, sagten mir, dass sie auf der Staffe zu kurz waren, dass es nur einen Anwalt auf der Anlage bei Shiprock gab.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und traurig, ist es möglich, dass es einen war. Unterfunding ist eines der chronischsten Probleme auf der Landwirtschaft.
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Jim Walters, ein Amber Alert-Koordinator, der mit der Navajo Nation ständig gearbeitet hat, sagte dem Justiz-Departement im Jahr 2006, dass dieses Unterfunding die meisten 9-1-1-Operatoren auf tribaler Lande führte, auf Legal-Pads zu nehmen, nicht auf einem Computer, nicht in einem System, sondern mit Hand, mit mobilen Radios als ihre einzige Verbindung zu den Anrufern.
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Also verhindert dieses hohe Funding die nativen Gemeinschaften unterverwundet. es sind hohe Aufstiegsrate wegen der bedeutend niedrigeren Betriebe und tribaler Rechtsanwälte als der Staat, was in langen Zeitperioden mit niemandem ihre Gemeinschaften schützt. Walters sagte Esquire, Quote, Fort Peck auf der Sioux-Reservation in Montana hat keinen Polizeichief in fünf oder sechs Jahren, Ende Quote.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Also Pamela nicht in die Möglichkeit zu erreichen, einen Anwalt an dem Tag, an dem ihre Tochter und Sohn verschwunden sind, wasn't out of the ordinary, but it was crushing. She was 11 hours away from her missing children, hearing from police over the phone that they would try and find her kids, but that they were so short staffed, it was going to take some time.
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I can't imagine how infuriating that must be. Frustrated, Pamela decided to turn to Facebook, posting about her missing kids. und sprach zu Gary Mike, dem Vater der Kinder, über eine Strategie. Ihr Facebook-Post beobachtete, was Grace Lynn ihr über den roten Van erzählt hatte.
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Und innerhalb einer halben Stunde ihrer Postung sprangen die Lokale in Aktion, formierten ihre eigenen Suchteams auf der Suche nach den vermisslichen Kindern im roten Van.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber um 7.10 Uhr, ein Paar fuhr durch die Reservation auf der Navajo-Route 13, auch bekannt als Red Rock Highway, als sie etwas bemerkten, was ihre Herzen stoppte. Nun, wir sind uns nicht sicher, ob das Paar Teil der Navajo-Nation war oder nicht, oder ob sie sich sogar von den verlassenen Kindern erkennt.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber egal, sie stoppten sofort ihr Auto, weil sie auf dieser desolierten Straße ein junges Kind gesehen haben. in der Dunkelheit allein. Es war neunjähriger Ian. Als das Auto neben Ian hochgezogen wurde, war er visuell furchtbar und weinte. Laut den L.A. Times hat er immer wieder gesagt, dass ein Mann in einem roten Van mich fährt.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber Emilys Tod im Frühjahr 2025 zeigte, dass diese Veränderungen fast nicht genug sind. Heutes Geschichte zeigt dir die Verletzungen im Justizsystem, sowohl vor als auch nach ihren Mördern. Aber es ist auch eine Geschichte von residenziellen Schulen, generational Trauma, juristischen Glauben und zwei Gemeinschaften, die nicht aufgeben.
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Von hier aus versuchte das Paar, 911 zu rufen, aber weil der Bereich so weit weg war, konnten sie keine Hilfe bekommen. Stattdessen führten sie das weibliche Kind in ihr Auto und rufen ihn zurück in den Schiprock-Polizeistationen des Navajo Nation Police. Einmal da, hat Ian es nicht erklärt, was da passiert ist. Seine Tochter, Daryl Foster Joe, hat den L.A.
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Times gesagt, dass er so müde war und nur weinend für seine Schwester weinte. Es war wirklich schwer, irgendwelche Informationen aus ihm herauszufinden. Aber wenn die Behörden die Informationen aus ihm herausgefunden haben, Es war furchtbar. Er erzählte ihnen alles darüber, was er gesehen hatte. Über das Reifen, über seine Schwester, wie sie nie zurückkam.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Er erzählte ihnen, dass der Mann Navajo war, einer ihrer eigenen. Und glücklicherweise kam bald danach sein Vater, um ihn zu beruhigen.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und schau dir nur einen Moment an, wenn die zwei Kinder, die verpasst wurden, keine liebende Familie hatten, um sie für sie zu suchen. die Polizei-Departementen ständig anrufen und in Person für die Polizei anrufen, um sie zu beurteilen. Was wäre passiert?
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Das ist etwas, das wir später erläutern, weil tragisch die Anzahl der missbrauchten indigenen Menschen und die sparse Informationen, die über sie vorhanden sind, für sich selbst sprechen. Aber während Maybelline die Farmington-Polizei anrufte, um Hilfe in der Suche zu bekommen, war der Kindesvater, Gary Mike, eine Suche nach seinem eigenen.
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Es ist die Geschichte eines Mörders auf dem Weg und der Apache-Tribe, die nichts stoppt, um ihnen Gerechtigkeit zu bringen. Weil als ich das geschrieben habe, ist Emily Pikes Mörder noch da und wir müssen sie finden. Also ist das die Geschichte von Ashlyn Mike und Emily Pike. Ich bin Courtney Browen.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und er ging nur auf die Erinnerung seines neunjährigen Sohnes, wo sie hinfuhren. Ian hatte so panikiert, so schmerzhaft, dass seine Erinnerung auf die Events am besten patchig war. Und um es noch schwieriger zu machen, hatte die Dunkelheit über die heilige Landschaft gefallen, um es noch schwieriger zu erinnern, wo sie waren.
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EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber Ian erinnerte sich, dass das Auto nach Set Bataille fuhr, ihre heilige Landschaft. Er erinnerte sich auch daran, dass es Pferde waren, vor denen sie stoppten, Kühe auf der rechten Seite von ihnen und Häuser auf der linken Seite. Gary drove down the isolated farming and access roads with nothing but his headlights and the lights of his phone to search for his baby girl.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und unbekannt zu allen... Ashlyn war bereits tot. Am Morgen des 3. Mai 2016 waren die Search-Partys vollständig im Bereich, in dem Ian sich erinnerte, zu bringen. Nur 24 Stunden vorher hatte Ashlyn ihren Zeitraum in ihrer 5. Klasse genossen. Sie war wahrscheinlich, so wie sie jeden Tag war, auf ihre Musikklassen aufgeregt.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Sie träumte, irgendwann Musiklehrerin zu werden und ihre Liebe für die Kunst den Kindern anzupassen. in der gleichen Weise, wie es ihr passierte. Aber sie bekam nie die Chance. Denn kurz nach 11 Uhr entstanden ein Gruppe Anwesender auf ATVs Ashlands Körper. Sie war nackt, liegend in der Wüste an der Basis eines kleinen Hills. Und mit einem einzigen Blick auf sie
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Es war offensichtlich, wie sie getötet wurde, weil ihr Kopf in den Arm geschlagen wurde. Es war ein furchtbarer Eindruck, einen, den niemand jemals vergessen würde. Als Ashlands Familie die Nachricht hörte, waren sie überwältigt. Ihre Mutter sagte, es sei der Tag, an dem mein Welt in Millionen Teile zerstört wurde. Ich musste eine Kriegsmutter werden.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Ich musste wütend sein und für meine Tochter kämpfen. Ashlands Vater, Gary Mike, sagte dem Albuquerque Journal, dass es so viele Menschen in der Welt mit Herzen gibt. Die Person, die das Leben meines Kindes verbracht hat, hatte kein Herz. Aber glücklicherweise, als ihr Körper gefunden wurde, war die Gefahr, dass die Gefahr, dass die Gefahr, dass die Gefahr,
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
based on the description of the vehicle. Now mind you, this is a description that they had from the very beginning. From the moment that Gracelyn told her mom about Ashlyn and Ian's disappearance. Sadly, Ashlyn was likely still alive when Gracelyn disclosed the information about the van. Yet it wasn't until the next day that police were using that to find her.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Am Morgen, an dem Ashlands Körper gefunden wurde, hatte Tom von Rufuses Stopp, bevor er nach Farmington fuhr, um einen Freund zu finden. Währenddessen brachte Rufus den Amber Alert, erhielt er, dass Toms Auto die Beschreibung geklappt hatte. Reportiert wurde, dass Tom lachte und sagte, dass er es überhaupt nicht gedacht hätte. Dann kam er von dort in den geklappten Van und fuhr weg.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Rufus war aber nicht der Einzige, der es bemerkt hatte. Außerhalb von Farmington haben FBI-Agenten Tom überholt, weil sein Fahrzeug geklappt hatte. Sie haben sogar Bilder von ihm und dem Fahrzeug genommen, aber zu diesem Zeitpunkt gab es nichts, um zu beweisen, dass er ihre Befugnis war. In der Tat, bis dahin hatte Ashlands Körper noch nicht gefunden.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Als Resultat wurden die FBI-Agenten gezwungen, Tom zu verlassen. Aber dann kamen weitere Tipps. Anrufe von der FBI über Toms Auto, die die Beschreibung vergleichen, flutten. Einige Leute erinnern sich sogar daran, dass sie sein Auto in der Gegend gesehen haben, an dem Tag von Ashlands Verabschiedung und Tod.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
So from here, Agent showed her little brother Ian a photo of Tom in a lineup, as well as a photo of his vehicle. And immediately, Ian knew that he was the person who had kidnapped him and his sister. He was also able to identify his car. But once they got this confirmation, No one knew where Tom was.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Unbeknownst to them, he was at a sweat lodge ceremony with his local church, along with his friend, Rufus Dickey.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Das war bis spät in der Nacht, als auf dem Gesang die Stimmen außerhalb hörbar waren, die beantragten, dass alle rauskommen. In der Mitte der Zeremonie wurde jeder gezwungen, zu erscheinen. Steine riefen aus dem Schmerzlodge aus, als sie die Tür öffneten und eins nach dem anderen kamen. Das, was sie erwartet hatten, war wie etwas aus einem schrecklichen Film.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Von ihrem friedlichen, geistigen Ausdruck kamen sie in einen Weltraum, in dem die Waffen an sie beobachtet wurden. Verblackte SUVs flashten rot und blau, schlug offene Entranz oder Ausflüge ab. Als der Agent Tom beobachtete, beantragten sie, dass er seine Hände aufhebt, vorwärts steigt und auf seine Knie kommt. Und von dort an wurde er für das Verstürzen und Mord von Ashlyn Mike verhaftet.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Alle, die das sahen, waren völlig überrascht. Toms Freund, Rufus Dickey, sagte The Last Cruises Son News, Quote, Ich habe ihn mit meiner Familie vertraut. Ich habe ihn mit meiner Tochter vertraut und er hat mich verletzt. Ich kannte ihn im Sonnenschein. Ich wusste ihn nicht zu Hause hinter geschlossenen Türen. Endquote.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Rufus hatte Tom, seinen Bruder, angerufen und Tom hatte die Audazität, Ashlands Rückkehr direkt neben ihm zu beten.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
However, later faced with the autopsy results, he had no choice but to tell the truth. In reality, Tom hadn't just digitally penetrated her. Tom had raped Ashlyn vaginally and anally. Then, after the brutal assault, he hit her in the head and left. Tom stated that when he left the scene, Ashlyn was still moving and breathing. So he left her there to die in the desert, on her ancestral land.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Ashlyn war an einem so spannenden Zeitpunkt, an der Zeit ihres Todes. Sie machte neue Freunde, fand neue Hobbys und entwickelte sich als Vorjüngerin mit ihrem eigenen Gefühl von Independence und Autonomie.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber sie bekam nie die Chance, zu sehen, ob Blau ihr Lieblingsfarbe bleibt oder ob sie lernen konnte, das neue Stück Musik, das sie praktizierte, oder ob sie ihre Lieblingsessen, Spaghetti, kochen konnte, wie auch ihre Eltern irgendwann. Ashlyn ist immer noch 11 Jahre alt und das infuriiert ihre Eltern rechtlich, die nichts mehr tun könnten, um ihre Tochter zu schützen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nach Ashlyns Mord begannen Pamela und Gary hart zu drücken, um ein Review zu machen, wie die Amber Alerts auf Reservierungen behandelt werden. Wegen der juristischen Probleme, wurden die nativen Kinder nicht geschützt. Und Pamela Foster besonders wollte einen Weg, um Amber Alerts über die gesamte Nation zu stellen, ohne mit der Angelegenheit der verschiedenen Staaten zu kämpfen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und glücklicherweise, am 29. März 2017 zahlte ihr hartes Arbeit. Senator John McCain hat den Ashland-Mike-Amber-Alert, einen indischen Landtagsantrag, vorgesehen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Dieses Gesetz würde Triben mit Regierungsfunding und Training bieten, um tribalen Amber Alerts mit staatlichen Amber Alerts zu integrieren und tribalen Polizisten zu ermöglichen, Alerts über ihre gesamte Reservation zu aktivieren, auch wenn sie die staatlichen Linien überschritten.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Ashlyn Mike's case put a huge spotlight on the reform needed when it comes to the disappearance and murders of indigenous women and children. But there is still so much further for us to go. As it currently stands, according to the Department of Justice, Native American women on reservations are ten times more likely to be murdered than women of other ethnicities anywhere in the US.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
And that's not even counting the indigenous women and children die noch nie gefunden wurden. Nun, unsere nächste Geschichte handelt es sich um eine Frau, die verschwunden wurde, die gefunden wurde. Jedoch, wie sie gefunden wurde, ist, traurig genug, das, was ihr Name in den nationalen Spotlight verweigerte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Emily Pike war eine 14-jährige Frau, die in der San Carlos Apache-Tribe in Arizona geboren wurde. Und wie ihr lernt, ist Emily Pike eine der vielen, vielen Mädchen aus dem gleichen Bereich, die verschwunden sind. Dank ihrer Familie für Gerechtigkeit und Reformen, kann sie nicht die Einzige sein, um nationalen Aufmerksamkeit zu bekommen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Von einer jungen Zeit an hat Emily beklagt, dass sie mit psychischen Problemen kämpft. Es ist traurig, die Hand, mit der sie getroffen wurde, aber das war nicht alles. Emily war auch eine vibrante und wunderschöne junge Frau. Ihre Tochter, Carolyn Pike Bender, sagte 12 News, Quote, Emily, ich meine, wir lieben sie. Sie war für uns Erwartung. Sie liebte Butterflys. Sie liebte alles, was sparklte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Sie liebte alle Sterne. Nur alles. Sie war nur eine Mädchen. Ende Quote. Und diese Liste schreckte mich. Sie war nur eine Mädchen. Ehrlich, sie war. Und so oft vergessen die Medien das. Besonders, wenn man sich junge Mädchen der Farbe anschaut. jungen Mädchen mit psychischen Problemen oder jungen Mädchen mit disziplinären Problemen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Manchmal in den Medien werden sie die Probleme, die sie befinden, die nicht der Fall sind. Nun, Emily hat mit ihrer psychischen Gesundheit und Disziplin geübt, laut einigen Gründen. Aber das macht sie nicht weniger wertvoll von Liebe. Denn aus dem Geräusch der Dinge Sie wusste, wie man wirklich liebt. Emily liebte K-Pop, Pink und Kunst.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Ihre Social-Media-Page waren voller Kunst, die sie erschaffen hat. Ihre Familie erinnerte sich deutlich daran, was für einen starken Respekt und Liebe für das Leben, das Emily hatte. Als sie ihr Kind als junge Mädchen verloren hat, war es das stärkste, was sie je erlebt hat. Begab sie sofort ihre Eltern, andere Katzen zu nehmen, damit sie sich um sie kümmern konnte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Es war nur die Art von Person, die sie war. Selbst wenn sie sich stört fühlte, wollte sie andere komfortieren. Und das ging mit ihr weiter, als sie zu einer Gruppe nach Hause ging. Im Jahr 2022, als Emily 11 Jahre alt war, wurde sie von der San-Carlos-Apache-Tribe Social Services entfernt.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Berichte wie Arizona Central News haben spekuliert, dass dies wegen einiger mentale Krankheiten war, die sie erlebte. Aber von dort wurde sie zu einem Gruppengebäude in Mesa, Arizona, etwa zwei Stunden von ihrer Wohnung auf der Reservation entfernt.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Chelsea, the pseudonym of one of Emily's friends who lived at the facility, told ABC 15 that Emily came to the facility to get better resources for her mental health. Sie sagte, dass es für sie herausfordernd war, sie auf eine Reservation zu bekommen. Chelsea und Emily waren nahe. Und das Leben in dieser Gruppe war herausfordernd. Sie versuchten also, sich in die richtige Richtung zu steuern.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nichts, was wir über diese Gruppe gehört haben, schlägt es in eine positive Farbe ein. Aber es gibt einige missbrauchliche Informationen. Die Medien sind schnell darauf eingegangen, dass die Gruppe 30 missbrauchte Menschen berichtet hatte, in den letzten drei Jahren alleine. Und das scheint eine überraschende Anzahl zu sein. Besonders, da sie dort nur zehn Gebäude hatten.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber Gruppenhäuser wie der, an dem Emily war, müssen Menschen verurteilt werden, wenn sie ohne Verabschiedung weggehen. Um das in Perspektive zu bringen, hat Emily bereits drei Mal verurteilt worden, dass sie von der Gruppe aus verurteilt wurde. Einer war am 11. September 2023.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Am Halloween des Jahres 2023 verschwand Emily und wurde vermutlich verloren, aber sie kam bald nach dem Nachtfall zurück auf ihr eigenes Vertrauen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nun, es scheint, dass sie im Jahr 2024 wieder in der Familie ihrer Familie auf der Reservation war, aber in der Zwischenzeit im Jahr 2024 kam sie zurück zu der Gruppe in Mesa und sie war dort bis Januar des Jahres 2025, aber bald genug würde ihre Geschichte zu einem tragischen Ende kommen. Am 27. Januar 2025, um 6.30 Uhr, lernte der Gruppenteilmanager, dass Emily Pike missging.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und um 8.19 Uhr kam ein Mesa-Polizei-Officer, um die Mitarbeiter zu interviewen, wie sie verschwunden ist. Seine Freundin Chelsea erzählte Fox 10 in Phoenix, dass Emily das Haus verlassen hat, weil sie einen Junge besuchen wollte, den sie mitgetreten hat, während sie Gitarre-Lessungen machte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
While a local church group was visiting, Emily snuck out of a window in her room by pushing out the screen. And from there, she disappeared into the cold January desert night. Once it was realized that Emily was missing, her family wasn't immediately notified. Instead, her case manager was alerted. And she only spoke with Emily's mother and other relatives over a week after she had disappeared.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Imagine finding out that your daughter has been missing for over a week. And by the time you learn about her disappearance, you're already so far behind that it makes it nearly impossible to catch up. In response, Emily's family immediately scrambled to make up for that lost time. They canvassed nearby communities, posted relentlessly on Facebook, and they spoke with law enforcement on the daily.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Initially, Emilys Mutter, Brüder, Onkels und Onkels warten in Angelegenheit, um sogar die kleinste Beweise davon zu bekommen, wo sie war.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nach dem Publisieren dieses Videos, suchen die Leute immer noch nach Emilys Händen und Arm. Twyla Casador sagte bei ABC 15, in unserer Apache-Kultur musst du voll sein, wenn du ins nächste Leben gehst. Wir müssen sie finden und ihr nur helfen, ihre Reise in ihre Reise zu machen. Als nativistische Person ist das alles, was du machst."
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Um Emily in ihr nächstes Leben in den Augen ihrer Leute und Traditionen in Frieden zu haben, muss ihr gesamtes Körper auf tribaler Lande geboren werden. Also hat nicht nur derjenige, der sie ermordet hat, ihr Leben genommen, sondern er hat auch die friedliche Vision von ihr im Nachhinein von ihrer Familie genommen. Und um ihre Schmerzen noch schlimmer zu machen, Seine Mörderin ist noch da.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Es ist so wichtig, dass wir alle zusammen reisen und ihre Name überleben, bis diese Person hinter den Bars ist. Und laut einem vertretenen FBI-Agenten, Jim Eagleson, scheint es sich, dass das, was diese Person hinter den Bars stellt, für viele andere schuldig sein könnte. Hier ist, was er von Phoenix Station KPHO gesagt hat.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Wir arbeiten in der Welt der echten Kriminellen. Wir haben uns immer sehr bewusst von der Krise der verurteilten und verlassenen indigenischen Menschen und der Untersuchung der Verlangenheit und Mord von 13-jähriger Emily Pike. Wir wurden gezwungen, wirklich die Räume zu schauen, um für diese Menschen für das erste Mal Gerechtigkeit zu bekommen, und wir wollten Fälle wie Emilys finden.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Vielleicht Mädchen ihres Erachtens, die aus dem selben Gebiet oder dem Gebiet, wo ihr Körper gefunden wurde. Aber was wir stattdessen gefunden haben, war, um es besser zu nennen, ein unorganisierter Mess. Wir haben uns die tribalen Bereiche um Globe und Mesa angeschaut. Auf tribalen Polizei- und Gemeinschafts-Facebook-Page
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Wir haben literally dozens of cases recently posted, asking for the public's help, wanting more information on these lost kids, some of them as young as 11 years old. We looked on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's website, which is usually a go-to for the status of missing children. But these cases weren't there. At first we thought we were entering information wrong.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
dass es vielleicht eine andere Datenbank gab, weil diese Verlangenheit auf tribaler Lande geschehen ist. Von dort haben wir dann auf die Büro of Indian Affairs Webseite gegangen, die eine gesamte Teilung von Missing Persönlichkeiten hat, die alle Missingindividuen aus tribalen Gemeinschaften listet. Aber das, was wir dort gefunden haben, war das gleiche.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Keine der Fälle, die lokal veröffentlicht wurden, wurden national veröffentlicht. Dann haben wir uns die Seiten der Stadt und der Stadtpolizei angeschaut. Und wiederum gab es keine Einführung dieser verlassenen Kinder. Und hatten wir wirklich die Statistiken vor diesem Deep Dive angeschaut, könnten wir uns nicht so überrascht haben.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Im Jahr 2016 hat das National Crime Information Center 5.712 Fälle von Missing American und Alaskaner Frauen und Mädchen veröffentlicht. Doch das US-Departement of Justice hat nur 116 dieser Fälle auf ihrem Website veröffentlicht. Das ist weniger als ein Zehntel der Missing Women and Girls.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Emily Pike's family feels the same way. Her mother posts almost daily about other missing children, teens and adults in the area, praying for their families. She knows more than anyone what it's like to have a loved one missing. But of all the missing people that she posts about, I hadn't heard of a single one of these cases.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
All of Ashlyn Mikes life, she was raised beneath the towering peaks of Set Bataille. It seems like there couldn't be a more fitting place for a Danette girl to grow up, protected under the peak of a sacred site, warming herself in the sun and nourishing herself with the earth of her native land. Ashlyn wurde am 13. November 2004 geboren zu Gary Pike und Pamela Foster.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
We would be remiss not to mention just a few of the names that we found of missing people in the Mesa and Globe area.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Dies ist eine Krise in so vielen Gründen. Und es ist so wichtig, dass wir diese Geschichten erzählen. Wenn Emily Pikes Familie das Licht finden kann, indem sie diese Fälle aus der Dunkelheit herausbringt, dann verdienen wir ihnen alle dieselben Respekt.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Also in Ehren von Emily Pike und Ashlyn Mike werden wir eine Donation zu den Not Our Native Daughters, einer indigenisch verbreiteten Überlebendenorganisation, um das Problem der missbrauchten, verletzten und verletzten indigenischen Frauen und Mädchen zu beantworten.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Sie wollen indigenische Gemeinschaften ermöglichen, indem sie für Gerechtigkeit und Unterstützung der betroffenen Familien unterstützen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und ihre Mutter beschreibt den Tag ihres Geburtstags so stark, dass sie sagt, habe ich bemerkt, dass die Spargel in ihren Augen mein leitender Licht war." Auf Ashlands 20. Geburtstag schrieb ihre Mutter in Erinnerung auf sie, dass es an einem wunderschönen Sonnenschein war, die Blätter der Bäume auf den Bäumen klingelten und die Sonne ihre letzten goldenen Flügel durch die Krankenhäuser schlug.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Das Sonnenlicht öffnete unsere Wohnung, erzählte mir, dass eine andere Star geboren wurde und was für ein besonderes Geschenk du sein würdest. Und auf alle Fälle war Ashlyn ein besonderes Geschenk. Eine Sache, die mich während des Forschens und des Lesens über diese schwarze kleine Mädchen beeindruckt hat, ist, wie viele Leute sie als elegant beschrieben haben.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Das ist ehrlich gesagt eine der letzten Wörter, die mir auf die Kinder kommen, aber laut ihrer Mutter, sobald sie die Zutaten halten konnte, hat sie langsam und intensiv gegessen. like a dainty princess. In an interview with the Farmington Daily Times, her principal, Abina McNeely, described her as having, quote, this quiet elegance about her, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber ihre Brüder waren ihre liebsten Freunde. Nach ihrem Tod hat ihr neunjähriger Bruder Ian sich daran erinnert, dass sie ihm mit seinen Fingern durch seine Haare schlafen musste. Nur zwei Jahre älter als ihn, hat sie den Ruhestand ihres Begeistern und Unterstützern aufgenommen. Und am 2. Mai 2016 versuchte Ian, den Vorteil zurückzuwerfen, indem er seine Schwester als Schutzmann war.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Es hat angefangen, wie jeden anderen Tag. Die drei Kinder, Ian, Gracelyn und Ashlyn, haben sich bereit gemacht, in Fruitland, New Mexico, eine Schule in Ojo, Amarillo, zu gehen. Die Schule, die von einer fast gesamten nativen Bevölkerung betroffen ist, hat reportedly nur ca. 300 Schülerinnen und Schüler im Kindergarten bis in die 6. Klasse.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Es ist die Art der Schule, in der jeder alle kennt und die Kinder eine Gefühl der Sicherheit haben. Eines Tages erinnert Gary Mike, Ashlands Vater, an sie zu schütteln und zu sagen, dass er sie liebte. Als sie am Morgen aus der Tür ging, hatte er keine Ahnung, dass es sein allerletztes Mal sein würde, mit seiner starren, talentierten 11-jährigen Tochter zu sprechen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nach der Schule wurden die Kinder an einem Busstopp verlassen, der nur eine Viertelmeile von ihren Häusern entfernt war. Und noch einmal, das ist auf einer Reservation, dem Ort, den die Mikes seit Jahrhunderten zu Hause genannt haben. So no one had any reason to worry. Even further, Ashlyn wouldn't be getting off the bus alone. She was surrounded by cousins, friends and her two siblings.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
But as dainty and elegant as Ashlyn was described as being, she was still a kid. und sie wollte spielen. Nachdem sie auf dem Bus ging, begann sie und ihr kleiner Bruder Ian, in einer Kanäle neben dem Busstopp zu spielen. Die Woche vorher hatte das Gebäude ungefähr drei Mal mehr Regen als normal, also flog die Kanäle, und die desertischen Pflanzen eruptierten in einem karbigen Grün.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Trigger Warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
während Ashlyn und Ian spielten. Seine ältere Schwester Gracelyn und einige ihrer Cousins gingen weiter nach Hause. Nach allem, die Kinder spielten eigentlich in ihrem eigenen Hintergrund und es war nicht ungewöhnlich für die Jüngsten, ein bisschen hinter sich zu lagern, als sie nach Hause kamen. Aber dann geschah etwas Ungewöhnliches. Etwas, das alles in einem Moment verändert hat.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
The third leading cause of death for women in America is unintentional accidents. A car crash, an overdose, a fall. Tragic mistakes that can happen to anyone at any time. Often there isn't anyone to blame but fate itself. But when you look at Native American women, the third leading cause of death is something much more disheartening, something that is preventable.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
So from here, Gracelyn and the cousins continued to walk on. Meanwhile, Ashlyn and Ian were playing in the canal alongside the road. But somehow, in the midst of their roughhousing, Ashlyn hurt her foot. And Tom Begay was eager to prey on that. Seeing Ashlyn on the side of the road, he pulled up to the kids, asking if they needed a ride home.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
And Ashlyn, not wanting to limp a quarter mile back on her injured foot, agreed. But her nine-year-old brother Ian immediately had alarm bells ringing in his head. He had a bad feeling about the man, about this stranger. But the idea of letting his big sister go on alone overrode his fear. So when Ashlyn hopped into the passenger seat... kam Ian in die Rückseite. Sein kleines Herz schluchzte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Von da an fuhr der Van auf die Straße. Und für einen Moment war alles normal. Das war, bis der Van in die gegenseitige Richtung ihres Hauses gedreht wurde. In diesem Moment Ian's little heart started beating out of his chest, and same for Ashlyn. Terror coursed through both of the children, as the man began driving them further and further away from their community, out into the sprawling desert.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
According to Ian, Ashlyn begann, den Mann umdrehen zu lassen. Er weinte in der Rückseite und Ashlyn panikierte in der Passagierseite. Aber selbst in der Mitte ihrer Panik, rief sie zurück und hielt Ians kleine Hand, um ihn zu beruhigen. Und trotz ihres Anliegens, fortsetzte die Fahrt durch die wandelnden Wiesen, ohne jemanden mehr in Sicht zu haben. für Meilen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Ashlyn schüttelte ihr Bruders Hand, als sie weiter nach Set B'tai führten. Der Ursprung ihrer Menschen auf der Erde. Der Monolith, der die Meik-Kinder überwacht hat, als sie aufgewachsen sind. Für ihre gesamten Leben stand Set B'tai über ihnen. Und jetzt fuhren sie immer näher und näher dorthin. Unbewusst von dem, was sie dort erwarteten.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und ich kann nicht helfen, zu wundern, was durch ihre Gedanken ging. Als sie durch den Desert fuhren, Sie konnten sich für Meilen und Meilen aussehen. Es ist möglich, dass während dieser ganzen Fahrt die Kinder ihre Häuser, ihre Gemeinschaft, weiter und weiter entfernen konnten, sie von der Zivilisation zu entfernen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
However, Ian's account speaks very differently of what he saw next. According to him, he saw Tom grab a curved bar of metal and he had it in his hands as he ordered Ashlyn to go. So in reality, he wasn't hiding the weapon at all. He was using it to intimidate these innocent children.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
And from the back of the car, Ian watched as Tom and Ashlyn disappeared over a nearby hill beneath the shadow of Sepp Bate. Für die nächste Stunde konnte er nur in Schmerzen sitzen, hoffte mit allem in ihm, dass er bald seine große Schwester zurück nach dem Auto sehen würde. Aber im Endeffekt, als er die Bewegung über den Berg sah, sah er nur Tom. Ashlyn war nirgends in Sicht.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Tom fuhr dann in den Van und begann zu fahren. Ian schaute aus dem Fenster, hoffte, seine Schwester irgendwo auf der Landschaft zu sehen. aber er konnte sie nicht sehen. Dann, nach einem paar Minuten Fahrt, stoppt Tom plötzlich den Van und beurteilt Ian, um raus zu kommen. Ian machte das, was er gesagt hatte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Yet it keeps happening, again and again and again, as the world watches on in silence. Murder. Und heute werden wir euch die Geschichten von Ashlyn Mike und Emily Pike erzählen. Zwei Frauen, die Teil dieser Statistik geworden sind. Aber traurig ist, dass es nicht richtig ist, sie Frauen zu nennen, weil sie nur kleine Mädchen waren. Ashlyn war 11 und Emily 14.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Er hat dann geschaut, als der rote Van verschwand, ihn alleine in der riesigen Wälder zu lassen, als die Sonne nach dem Horizont krepte. Nun, zurück an Ashlands Zuhause, hatte ihre Familie bereits designt nach ihr und Ian. Als ihre große Schwester Gracelyn nach Hause kam und ihre Brüder nicht um 4 Uhr herrschten, Sie wusste, dass etwas falsch war.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
We have online with us all the way out from Nevada, Mark and Debbie Constantino, EVP specialists. Thanks for joining us, guys. Oh, you're welcome. Our pleasure. Let's start for the people again that are just tuning in and are not familiar with EVP. And again, that's electronic voice phenomenon. Can you guys give us a little bit of background? How did you get involved in this form of ghost hunting?
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And in the psychic realm, for people, again, that are just tuning in, clairaudient means that you can actually hear. Right, you can hear the spirits.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So after a year of this, Fabian realized that he was pretty much free to do whatever he wanted. He was able to move from home to home without checking in with anyone. And he was free to use drugs. His favorite being methamphetamine. Now Fabian would later say that upon moving in with Michelle, things were going fine. And luckily for him, he was being spoiled by his new girlfriend.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Not only did he have a place to live, but Michelle let him use her car whenever he wanted, her cell phone, and she allowed him to smoke meth in her apartment. And during the few weeks they had been dating, Fabian also seemed to get along with Michelle's children. Fabian would later say of nine-year-old Victoria, quote, she loved me, you know? She was, hey Fabian, and we'd always smile.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Victoria is real active. She's cool, you know what I mean? She's all grown up, you know, for her age." And it seemed like Victoria liked him as well. After a few days of living there, he even gave Victoria a kitten, which clearly won her over. One day, Victoria even sat down and wrote Fabian a letter that read, quote, "'I like you because you are funny. I really like you.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
We were supposed to go to the zoo today.' and I just like you." So on the surface, it seemed like everything was fine here, but that couldn't have been further from the truth. You see, while Michelle was at work and the children were at school, Fabian would invite friends over to their apartment and they would all smoke meth together. So the company he was bringing around was not the best.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Major trigger warning for this episode as it is truly one of the most disturbing cases I have ever heard in my entire life. But this is the story of Victoria Martins. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Victoria and her little brother Matthew would come home from school to drug paraphernalia lying around. And Michelle, having only known this man for a couple of weeks, allowed it. Eventually, she even started using the drugs herself. And from there, everything began to fall apart. But things would get exponentially worse when a woman named Jessica Kelly came into the picture.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Like her cousin Fabian, Jessica was also a methamphetamine user. And despite being on probation, she and Fabian reconnected and celebrated her release by smoking a bunch of meth together. On August 18th, during one of their meth hangouts, Jessica told Fabian that she was struggling. After her release from prison, she didn't have a place to live.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
None of her family members would let her move in because she was still actively using drugs. So at that moment, Fabian invited Jessica to come live with him at Michelle's apartment. The apartment that he had just moved into himself, where Michelle lived with her two young children.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, I'm not sure if Michelle was in on this plan or if he just invited his cousin without her permission, but Michelle would later allow Jessica to move in, so she had to have been okay with it. Fabian told Jessica that she only had to pay them $50 a month to live there. However, Michelle never knew about this payment. Fabian was apparently just pocketing that money for himself.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But soon enough, Michelle and her children, just nine and seven years old, had two criminal meth users that they didn't even know living with them.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, even though Fabian had this beef with his family members, he and his cousin Jessica were still on good terms. She was still living with him in Michelle's apartment. And like Fabian, she too started taking advantage of Michelle. Within two days of living there, Jessica invited her two teenage kids to come over and stay the night. Another night that week, Jessica invited a man to come over.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And while everyone was sleeping, Jessica had sex with this man in the living room, right outside of nine-year-old Victoria's bedroom. Now, during the day, Jessica also took Michelle's car to go run errands around town. And keep in mind, they had only known each other for a few days.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
This was also a very special day as it was Victoria Martin's 10th birthday. That morning she woke up, got on her school bus and made her way over to her elementary school, which ended up being the best thing for her because that day her mother Michelle was too busy smoking meth to celebrate.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
While Victoria was at school, Michelle and Fabian went to their local drug dealer to pick up some more meth. They had smoked the last of their supply that morning, so they needed more. At around noon, Fabian and Michelle would make their way back home. But when they walked through the doors, Jessica was there acting very strange. She kept looking out the windows.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Her eyes would dart to the front door. She even thought that the TV was sending her subliminal messages. After smoking meth that day, she was very paranoid. Now, after spending a few hours at home, Fabian and Michelle decided to leave the apartment again to go get some alcohol. But based on Jessica's behavior, they were very concerned about her. At 2.33 p.m.,
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Michelle even texted her friend and asked if she could go over to check on Jessica. She clearly wasn't doing well, which is why this next part is mind boggling. While Michelle and Fabian were running around getting drugs and alcohol, Michelle realized that Victoria needed to be picked up from the bus stop soon. After running around doing meth all day, she had completely forgotten about it.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So in that moment, she texted her mother Pat and asked if she could get Victoria. Fabian offered up another solution. He told Michelle that Jessica could go pick her up. Now, like we mentioned, Jessica had been doing meth all day and she was visibly paranoid. So at first, Michelle wasn't sure if that was a good idea. However, Fabian convinced her otherwise.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
He told her, don't worry, Jessica will pick her up and she can watch her at the apartment until we get back. And for whatever reason, Michelle agreed. She quickly texted her mother, quote, nevermind, I got it. And in her mind, her kid's childcare for the day had been taken care of. Her son Matthew was staying at his father's house and Victoria would be in Jessica's care.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
It had all perfectly fallen into place for her. She and Fabian could now spend the day together getting high without having to worry about watching her daughter. Sadly, Michelle didn't even take into account that it was Victoria's birthday.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Hey, remember to pick up Victoria from the bus stop.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Did you pick her up?
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Victoria was at her elementary school enjoying the last little bit of her school day. The first part of Victoria's 10th birthday had been great. Her teachers and classmates all celebrated her by eating cupcakes and singing her a happy birthday. She had spent the day running around with her friends, laughing and smiling like she always did.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, her family would be getting together the following day for her birthday party, but today was her actual birthday. And I'm sure she expected to come home and feel celebrated. Maybe her mom would play with her. Victoria's favorite thing to do was draw or rollerblade, so maybe she would get to do that with her mother.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
However, when she arrived at her bus stop around 4 p.m., no one was there to pick her up. Not her mom, not her grandma, not even Jessica. So, Victoria waited there. Eventually, a neighbor spotted her sitting there all by herself, so they offered to walk her home. And at 4.25pm, Victoria finally arrived at her apartment. But she was not greeted with a warm birthday welcome.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
When she walked through the doors, The only person there was Jessica. Now, the neighbor who walked Victoria home that day saw Jessica sitting in the house and immediately she was concerned. She even texted Michelle and said, Hey, Victoria's trying to get in touch with you. I walked her home today and I noticed there's a woman in your apartment that I've never seen before.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Thank you.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Clearly, even the neighbor was worried about leaving Victoria alone with this woman.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
When Michelle and Fabian finally came back to the apartment, Victoria ran over to her mother and showed her the $45. But from there, Fabian pulled Victoria into the bathroom and closed the door. Reportedly, they were in there for about 15 minutes. And during that time, Fabian had taken her birthday money away from her.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
From there, he and Michelle would leave the apartment again and he used Victoria's birthday money to buy himself some vodka. Now back inside the apartment, Jessica decides to call her sister, Crystal, who was in prison. When Crystal answered the phone from prison, she could immediately tell that something was wrong with her.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Jessica started talking about how she was being followed by an ex-boyfriend who went by the name of Sinner. Jessica said that there was a car in the parking lot that kept circling around and how she figured it was Sinner. She also said that Sinner had planted some books in her bedroom. But as she's saying all of this, her sister knows that she has to be on drugs.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Crystal even tells her, you're smoking too much meth and you're just tweaking out. which was true. But as it turns out, this ex-boyfriend of hers named Sinner was actually in prison at the time, so he clearly couldn't have been following her. Now, once Jessica got off the phone, she looked out of the window and saw Victoria riding around on her scooter, talking to a neighbor.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
That neighbor was named Sabrina, and she would later say that Victoria came up to her and started talking about a new kitten she had just adopted. Victoria wanted to run inside and show her the kitten. But as Victoria was talking, Jessica ran over and started talking over Victoria. Sabrina said it was the strangest thing. It was almost like she didn't want Victoria to talk.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Jessica also mentioned something about giving her $45. And then Sabrina watched as Jessica aggressively yanked Victoria inside the apartment. And sadly, that would be the very last time Victoria Martins was ever seen alive.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
When the Albuquerque Police Department arrived on scene, they saw Fabian and Michelle outside in the apartment's courtyard. And it's here where they were informed that Jessica, who was responsible for the attack, was still inside. So the police began yelling out to Jessica, ordering her to come out, but... she refused.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
They tried to gain entry into the apartment, but Jessica had slammed the door in their faces and deadbolted it. But inside apartment 808, Jessica Kelly was panicking. She ran out to the balcony and decided that she was going to try and escape. However, when she jumped off the second story, Jessica fell and broke her ankle. And from there, the officers were able to detain her.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Here is the video of her arrest.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Our story begins in the early morning hours of August 24th, 2016. The police in Albuquerque, New Mexico were responding to a call about a domestic dispute at an apartment complex. When they finally arrived and entered apartment 808, they couldn't help but notice the smoke that filled the unit, and the smell that came with it.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, as you just heard, shortly after Jessica was detained by the police, the fire alarm at the apartment complex started going off. So while that officer stayed with her, the others entered apartment 808 to try and locate Victoria. However, as soon as they stepped inside, they were hit with smoke. Smoke that was coming directly from the apartment's bathroom.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
The officers quickly rushed over and opened the door, and the image they would see would stick with them for the rest of their lives. There, in the bathtub, was a little body wrapped up in a blanket. It was 10-year-old Victoria Martins. When the officers stepped closer, they saw Victoria had been dismembered. Then, in an attempt to cover up the crime, she had been set on fire.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Horrifically, in the living room, officers found a trash bag that contained a heart, liver, lungs, and kidneys. And with Jessica Kelly being the only one in the apartment when they arrived, they believed that she had been the one responsible. So here is the rest of the body cam footage from outside the apartment.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
In that body cam footage, you heard the officer ask her who else was in the apartment with you, to which Jessica says, another guy, he took off. I started trying to wipe the blood up and I started panicking. So it seems at this moment, Jessica was trying to place the blame on this random man who she said had entered the apartment. But shortly after being detained, Jessica would lawyer up.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
However, Fabian and Michelle were willing to talk to the police. In this next part, we are going to play parts of Fabian's interview. He's sitting there in the interrogation room shirtless, and he asks if he and Michelle could be interviewed together.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
By the time Victoria was two years old, her mother Michelle started dating someone. Now, we don't know his name, but in 2008, they found out they were pregnant. And later that year, Michelle would give birth to a son named Matthew, Victoria's half-brother. Now, Michelle was actually with this man for years. He was in Victoria's life from age two to nine, so he was like a father figure to her.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And these years seemed to be the best of Victoria's life. They were a family. But in 2015, Michelle and her boyfriend decided to part ways, ending their seven-year relationship. Now, Matthew continued to have a relationship with his dad, but it was a big adjustment for them. At the time, Michelle, nine-year-old Victoria,
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
and seven-year-old Matthew were living at the Aurora Villa apartment complex on the west side of Albuquerque. And from the outside looking in, they appeared to be a normal family. In 2015, Victoria was going to school at Petroglyph Elementary School. And according to the people who knew her, she never met a stranger.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, Fabian didn't know that his cousin, Jessica Kelly, had already asked for an attorney. So from here, investigators worked hard to get answers from Fabian and Michelle. And anytime there's a dead child, investigators have to consider a motive. Why would somebody want this child dead? And sadly, something they have to consider is that the child had been sexually assaulted.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And given that Fabian had only known Michelle and Victoria for a few weeks, and had been living with them, that's the motive they were suspecting here, that Fabian had raped Victoria and then killed her to cover it up.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Victoria was the type of girl that could walk up and start a conversation with anyone. She was very social and a natural at making new friends. She was also a very energetic child. According to her family, she loved being outside, whether it was rollerblading, swimming with her little brother, riding around on her scooter, or just watching butterflies.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So from here, the detectives want to know how Victoria died. And Michelle starts telling them a story about how she believed Victoria somehow got into their meth supply.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Michelle said that once they all realized Victoria was dead, Jessica grabbed a kitchen knife and started walking towards Victoria's bedroom. When Michelle asked what she was doing, Jessica turned and told her that she was going to dispose of the body.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Victoria could always be seen with a smile, and a beautiful smile at that. When you look at pictures of her, you can just tell that she brought people joy, that her laugh was infectious. And like many girls her age, she was exploring her interests. At the time, she had really been loving gymnastics. She was good at drawing, and she loved anything sparkly and purple.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Her family called her Queen Victoria, and they said, quote, she could light up a room with all of her glowing laughter and the cute smirk she would give you, end quote. And up until this point, Victoria seemed to have a pretty decent life. Things weren't always easy, but she and her brother had a roof over their heads, food on the table, and family members who loved them.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So Michelle just said that after finding Victoria dead, Jessica and Fabian started the dismemberment in Victoria's bedroom. Jessica was holding Victoria's arms while Fabian cut them off. Then they put Victoria in the bathtub.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
She was cared for, but all of that would begin to change in 2016.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But as you know, in these interrogations, the detectives will make you walk through every single detail. And as they did this with Michelle, her story kept changing. First, she said that Victoria ingested meth that was sitting out on the table. But then later on, she said that Jessica killed Victoria. So her story wasn't matching up.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
The detectives had a feeling that the meth story just wasn't true. And it wasn't. Victoria's autopsy would later prove that she didn't have any meth in her system. And the detectives believed that Victoria was likely murdered to cover something up. So they straight up asked Michelle if Victoria had been raped.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, David Hernandez was the boyfriend Michelle had before Fabian, the one that cornered Victoria and tried to kiss her. It's also the man who kidnapped a four-year-old girl off the street. But according to Michelle, he was the only one who had raped Victoria. However, after a little prodding, she admitted that he wasn't the only one, that Jessica and Fabian had been raping her as well.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
She even said that they would give Victoria meth beforehand to quote, calm her down.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But as if this couldn't get any more disturbing, Michelle then admits that she wasn't just aware Jessica and Fabian were raping Victoria, but she would actually sit in the room and watch as it happened.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
The fire alarms were blaring as they made their way towards the source of that smoke, and soon enough they were led to a bathroom. But they had absolutely no idea the nightmare they were about to uncover. As it turns out, this was far more than a domestic dispute. As the officers opened up that door, they saw a body in the bathtub.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But a few years after this incident, Michelle Martins crossed paths with this man and they started dating. Now again, he was never convicted of anything, so maybe Michelle didn't know what he was capable of. However, she would soon find out. In early 2016, Michelle had left her nine-year-old daughter alone with David at their apartment.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And it was during this time when David tried to make a move on Victoria. He was trying to kiss her, even going as far as cornering her in the apartment. but Victoria refused. Now following this, she would actually tell a family friend about what happened. And on March 28th, 2016, that friend submitted an anonymous tip to the New Mexico Children, Youth and Family Department.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So during this interrogation, Michelle Martins revealed the horrifying reality that Victoria had been living in, where she would invite men over to rape her 10-year-old daughter. To the detectives, it was clear that this is exactly how Victoria died. Michelle started dating Fabian, he moved in with them, along with his cousin Jessica, and they started raping Michelle's daughter.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
However, on August 23rd, they took it too far. During the assault on Victoria's 10th birthday, she died, likely by strangulation. Then to cover up their crime, they spent the night dismembering Victoria's body. However, early that morning, Fabian, Michelle and Jessica began to turn on each other and soon enough, everything would be revealed.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, even though Michelle confessed to everything, Fabian was still adamantly denying all of it, but that didn't matter. Michelle's confession was enough. So from there, the three of them were arrested and charged with first degree murder, kidnapping, child abuse resulting in death, intentional child abuse and tampering with evidence. All three were held on a $1 million cash bond.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
otherwise known as cyfd now i didn't realize this was a thing but apparently since the tip wasn't submitted by the parent guardian or custodian living inside the house the case was out of cyfd's jurisdiction so after receiving this tip they sent it over to the albuquerque police department however when apd reviewed the case they didn't think it was a big deal.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, over the next two years, as investigators continued working the case, Victoria Martin's name was kept alive. At the end of what would have been Victoria's fourth grade year in May of 2017, her elementary school honored Victoria's life with a special yearbook memorial. Dozens of students wrote personal messages for her. They read things like, I miss you, Victoria.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
I wish you can be here with me. Thank you, Victoria, for being an amazing friend. I'm happy you're in heaven flying with the angels. Where her school picture would have been was the image of two purple angel wings. Her school also put up a bench in her honor that reads, quote, in memory of Victoria Martins. But as 2017 turned to 2018,
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
APD spokesperson, Officer Fred Duren explained, quote, unfortunately, somebody attempting to do something such as kissing the child is not a crime. It has to be some sort of contact or there has to be more to it before it's considered a crime under New Mexico state law, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Everyone following this case was ready for justice, to see the perpetrators, Michelle Martins, Fabian Gonzalez, and Jessica Kelly, go to prison for the atrocities they committed. But in 2018, two whole years after Victoria's murder, the DA's office would drop a bombshell. In fact, this is one of the biggest twists I think I've ever heard.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And it has to do with the physical evidence found at the scene. You see, over the last two years, investigators had been basing their entire investigation on Michelle's confession. However, as the results of that evidence began to come in, investigators realized that they had it all wrong. As it turns out, there had been semen found on Victoria's body.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
There was also DNA on her back, her neck, and under her fingernails. But it wasn't Fabian's. was someone else an unknown male who wasn't in their system even further during victoria's autopsy they determined that she had died somewhere between 7 pm and 8 30 pm on august 23rd and cell phone data actually proved that both michelle and fabian were not in the apartment during that time so
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Michelle Martins had given a false confession. There was no meth in Victoria's system and she and Fabian were not there when Victoria was raped and murdered like she had claimed. But you know who was in the apartment during that time? Fabian's cousin, Jessica Kelly.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now the morning after the murder, right after Jessica had jumped off their second story balcony, she briefly mentioned something about a random man coming into the apartment the day before. But then shortly after that, she lawyered up. Then Michelle gave her story of what happened and investigators thought they knew the truth, but they couldn't have been more wrong.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now keep in mind, APD was the very department who had arrested David Hernandez for kidnapping that little girl in 2013. So if they would have just looked into it, they would have seen just how dangerous this man was.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Like we mentioned, Michelle and Fabian had been going in and out of their apartment that entire day. It didn't matter that it was Victoria's 10th birthday. They had better things to do, like doing drugs and running around town meeting up with different people. And while they were busy doing that, they left Victoria and Jessica Kelly's care.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, both Fabian and Michelle knew that Jessica had been extremely paranoid. In fact, she hadn't left the apartment in days because she was scared that someone was coming after her. After smoking meth that morning, Jessica was frantically looking out the windows. She kept the front door open so she could see if someone was coming upstairs.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And she even called her sister to let her know that her ex-boyfriend was following her, even though he was in prison at the time. But around 7 p.m., Michelle and Fabian leave the apartment to go smoke some more meth. It's around that same time when the neighbors saw Victoria outside. They also saw Jessica bring her into the apartment, and that was the last time Victoria was ever seen alive.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So what happened from there? Well, according to Jessica Kelly, Victoria came inside and put on a pair of pink pajamas. She then ate some sunflower seeds and then went into her bedroom to do some homework. And Jessica said that she just hung out in the living room. But after a few minutes, she said she heard the front door open. When she looked over, there was a random man standing there.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Immediately, he asked for Favo. which was Fabian's street name. Now, Jessica said that she had never seen this man before, but he had a Mexican accent. And he told her, quote, Favo fucked up. He knows he did, end quote. Apparently, Fabian owed the guy drug money, but Jessica said she quickly told him that Fabian wasn't home.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
She said she pointed to Victoria's bedroom and said, quote, it's just me and the girl, end quote. Then from there, the man walked over to Victoria's room. Jessica said that it looked like he knew the apartment, like he had been there before. So she went to the balcony to smoke a cigarette as the man went into Victoria's bedroom.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, when I first heard the story of this random man, I thought Jessica was lying, that it was just a story to cover up what really happened. But based on the evidence, Jessica seemed to be telling the truth, at least partially, because a man had gone into Victoria's bedroom that night, and while inside, he sodomized her. The man's DNA was under Victoria's fingernails, so she fought back.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But at some point during the assault, he strangled her, ending Victoria's life exactly 10 years after it started. Now, Jessica never mentioned how long the man was inside the bedroom, but when he came out, she said that he walked over to her and said that she had a mess to clean up in there. She said he then threatened her
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
After a few minutes, Michelle and Fabian finally came back inside. But apparently, Michelle didn't think to go check on her daughter. She didn't give her a birthday present. She didn't sing her happy birthday. She was so high, she essentially forgot about her. And while Michelle stepped away for a second, Jessica pulled her cousin out on the balcony.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And according to her, that's when she told Fabian everything that had happened. that a random man came in asking for him and how that man raped and murdered Victoria in her bedroom.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Once Fabian realized that Victoria was dead, he and Jessica came up with a plan. They were going to take turns dismembering Victoria's body. And while one person was doing that, the other would distract Michelle. So according to Jessica, that's exactly what they did. Now, I still have a hard time believing that Michelle didn't know any of this was happening.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
We'll get into that a little later, but that night, Michelle even went into the kitchen and made everyone tacos, while her daughter's body was in the other room. According to her, it never crossed her mind that Victoria never ate dinner that night. But sometime after making the tacos, according to them, Michelle went into her bedroom to go to sleep.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And that's when Jessica and Fabian started the dismemberment process. And here is how that played out, according to Jessica. Once Michelle was in the bedroom, Fabian grabbed a kitchen knife and some trash bags. They then went into Victoria's room and put the trash bags beneath her body so that they wouldn't get blood on the carpet.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, according to the family friend who sent in the tip, when Michelle found out that David had tried to kiss Victoria, she immediately broke things off with him and she kicked him out of the apartment. But besides that, no one from law enforcement or any family services came in to help or to make sure Victoria was okay.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And then from there, they began cutting Victoria's arms off with a kitchen knife. Jessica said that she held the arms as Fabian stabbed them. Now kitchen knives are not usual tools people use for dismemberment, so it was incredibly messy and difficult. The process took them several hours, but once the arms were removed,
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Jessica put them in a trash bag and then put the trash bag in Victoria's laundry basket. She then took that basket and put it by the front door. But Jessica said that when she returned to Victoria's room, she saw Fabian cutting open Victoria's chest. She said that he put a trash bag around his hand so that it wouldn't get bloody. And he then reached into Victoria's chest
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
and started removing her organs. He removed her heart, liver, lungs, and kidneys. But at that point, Jessica said that she told him to stop. When asked why, Jessica said this.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
During Fabian's trial, the prosecution stated that even though they don't know the identity of Victoria's killer, they suspected that it had to do with that fight Fabian got in at that family barbecue days before the murder. If you remember, he started fighting with his family members and even threatened them saying he was going to come back with his gang member brothers.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So they suspected that someone within that family or someone close to them came by to hurt Fabian. However, when they saw that he wasn't at the apartment, they chose to hurt Victoria instead. But Fabian's defense team argued that Jessica Kelly was the one who murdered Victoria and she was the one who dismembered her. Now, they aren't denying that someone came in to rape Victoria.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
That man's DNA was found on her neck, back, and fingernails. So even though he was the one to rape her, they believe that Jessica Kelly was ultimately the one who ended her life. Now, Fabian's fingerprints were found on the knife that contained Victoria's flesh, but he claimed that he used those knives all the time for cooking.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And other than that, the only piece of evidence at the scene that had both Fabian and Victoria's DNA was a sock. It was Fabian's sock and it had Victoria's blood on it. But that sock was found in Victoria's laundry basket where parts of her remains were located. So his defense said that that's how Victoria's blood could have gotten on the sock.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But his defense team said that he had nothing to do with it, that it was all Jessica Kelly. However, that would be up for the jury to decide. On August 3rd, 2022, both sides rested their cases and the jury was sent away for deliberations. And after only two hours, the jury reached their verdict, guilty on all counts.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Ultimately, Fabian Gonzalez was sentenced to 37.5 years in prison, just shy of the maximum amount.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
The victim had been dismembered, their organs had been removed, and they had been set on fire. But almost immediately, the officers noted how small the victim was. As it turns out, The body in the bathtub was that of 10-year-old Victoria Martins. She had been killed on her 10th birthday. But the story of how she got into that bathtub was even more devastating than the scene in front of them.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, in part of Michelle's confession, she said that she would let men come over to her house to have sex with her daughter. And the prosecution was never able to find evidence of this, but it was found that Victoria had an STD, one that she had gotten before Fabian ever came into the picture. So that alone proves that Victoria had been subjected to sexual abuse.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, whether her mother knew about this or not, We can't say. But before we move on from Michelle, I do want to mention this. The prosecution couldn't prove that Michelle Martens had anything to do with what happened on the night of Victoria's death. According to them, Michelle came home that night, never once checked in on her daughter, and then went to bed.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And while she was sleeping, Fabian and Jessica dismembered Victoria. But there are a lot of people out there who just don't buy it. Neighbors also said that they heard three people arguing in the apartment that night, Fabian, Michelle, and Jessica, and that the arguments went on all night long.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
They said that the three adults would be screaming at each other, then they would stop, then they would start screaming again. But let's just say for argument's sake, the neighbors were mistaken. They didn't actually hear three people they heard too, Fabian and Jessica, and that during those arguments, Michelle really was in her bedroom.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But for a lot of people, it's hard to believe that Michelle heard them fighting all night long and never once asked what was going on, that she never once went to go check on her daughter. For a lot of people who hear this, it just doesn't make sense. Something else that's hard to wrap my head around are the other sounds that the neighbors heard that night.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
They said that for hours they heard screaming, banging, and the sounds of things being dragged around the floor. So the fact that Michelle didn't hear any of that is hard to believe. Now again, we don't think she had her daughter killed, but there are a lot of people who believe that she knew more than she was letting on.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And sadly, Jessica Kelly would also take a plea deal. Ultimately, she pleaded no contest to child abuse resulting in death, great bodily harm, aggravated assault, tampering with evidence, and conspiracy to commit tampering with evidence. And on April 28th, 2022, she was sentenced to 40 years in prison.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So with that, Jessica, Fabian and Michelle were all behind bars, right where they belong. But justice has yet to be served. Sadly, the unknown male who raped and murdered Victoria on her 10th birthday is still out there somewhere. They are living their lives and walking among us. And there are a lot of people out there that believe Jessica Kelly knew exactly who that man was.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
There was even a phone call she made to her mother from jail where she said that someone she knows needs to get an attorney.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
In this next part, I'm going to walk you through some theories that I found online. And because this case has so many unanswered questions, there has been a lot of speculation as to what really happened. There are a lot of people who believe that the unidentified man who raped and murdered Victoria was somehow connected to Jessica Kelly and that family barbecue.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
As we know, Fabian got into a huge fight with the people there and he threatened them. Then afterwards, he was looking up ways to get a gun. The people at that barbecue had armed men sitting outside waiting for Fabian to come back with his brothers.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So it's widely believed that someone either from that barbecue or someone they knew had been looking for Fabian and eventually they found where he was staying. However, when they came to the apartment that day and saw that Fabian wasn't there, they decided to hurt Victoria instead. Now, keep in mind that family barbecue was thrown by Jessica's family.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
I wasn't able to figure out how everyone was exactly related, but considering it was her family's barbecue, it's safe to say that if this is what happened, then Jessica likely knew the person, which would explain why she didn't call the police. she was protecting them.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Because if this was just a random man that Jessica had never seen before, and he just walked into the apartment and raped and murdered a little girl, why on earth would you not call the police? Why would you go through all of the trouble of trying to dismember a body unless you were trying to protect someone. Now let's consider the next theory, which is Jessica Kelly's version of events.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
She said that Fabian kept leaving the apartment that day, that it was strange because he and Michelle would be home for a couple of minutes and then they would leave again. They kept coming back and forth that whole day, then a random man comes by saying that Fabian owed him money, and then he rapes and murders Victoria. But this story is also hard to believe.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
If this is true, then Fabian likely would have known exactly who this man was. People know who they owe money to. Now, I know that snitching is a huge no-no in the criminal world, but in the beginning, Fabian was being blamed for raping and murdering a 10-year-old girl.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
So if the real perpetrator was someone that he knew, someone he owed money to, then why wouldn't he just tell the police who it was? But here is another theory, one that makes sense to me. As we mentioned, Jessica Kelly had been extremely paranoid in the days before the murder. She didn't even leave the apartment for days because she was scared someone was coming for her.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
She herself admitted that she had been looking out the windows and watching cars drive by. Now we know that meth can cause paranoia, but what are the chances that on the same day Jessica is paranoid out of her mind, that someone actually comes into the apartment and rapes and murders a little girl.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
There are a lot of people who believe that Jessica was paranoid because she had gotten herself into trouble. Maybe she had wronged someone and they were actually looking for her and eventually they found her. Then when that person came by, Jessica offered up Victoria as some sort of payment.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And again, it just doesn't make sense that she and Fabian would go through all of the trouble of dismembering a 10-year-old little girl if they were truly innocent in all of this. I also saw a theory that maybe Jessica had invited someone over to have sex with Victoria. Remember how Jessica gave her that $45?
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Well, people have speculated that Jessica let someone rape Victoria, then she gave her that money to keep her quiet. However, later that night, in her paranoid state, Jessica got nervous that Victoria would say something, so... She killed her.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
We also know that Jessica had been charged with conspiracy to commit sexual assault against a female inmate while she was in prison, so I wouldn't put it past her. But whatever the case may be, I truly believe that Jessica Kelly knew the man that came into the apartment that day. It's probably why she had been paranoid, why she didn't call the police. and why she helped dismember Victoria.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
It's also likely why she tried to kill Fabian and Michelle later that next morning, why she tried to set the body on fire to get rid of evidence. Perhaps Jessica knew that she was the root of everything that had gone wrong, so she tried to kill everyone in the apartment and then burn it to the ground.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Unfortunately, this is where our story ends. But that feels so wrong. There are so many unanswered questions to this case, and Victoria's loved ones will not rest until that unknown man is identified. Victoria Ann Martins deserves that. Her life hadn't been easy. Victoria had been sexually assaulted on a number of occasions.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
New Mexico Children, Youth, and Family Department Services had been called five different times before she was murdered. But still, she remained in her mother's care, which was clearly a huge mistake. Michelle Martins, who was entrusted to protect, love, and nurture Victoria, invited strangers into their lives, criminals. And because of that,
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
someone connected to them would come into their home and destroy everything. Victoria's 10th birthday, which was supposed to be filled with love and happiness, ended in the worst way you can possibly imagine. Raped, murdered. dismembered, and set on fire.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
The people who dismembered her are in prison for their part, but to the person who raped and murdered her, I can only hope that they are haunted every single day by what they did. I hope that when they lay their head down at night, They are filled with paranoia, wondering when their crimes will catch up to them.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And I hope that the rest of their days are filled with all the pain and misery that this world has to offer. I am hopeful that one day we will know exactly who this man is. We have his DNA. And with advancements in technology, I'm confident that he won't stay hidden forever and that Victoria Martins can finally get the justice she deserves.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now in the summer of 2016, it looked like things were looking up for Michelle Martens. She had even got a new job in the deli at Smith's grocery store. And before they hired her, they made Michelle take a drug test, which she passed. So from the outside looking in, Michelle appeared to be working hard. She was trying to be a good mom.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
On the fridge in her apartment, she had all of Victoria's drawings proudly displayed. She had all of her emergency contact phone numbers. Michelle's parents, John and Pat Martins, were really proud of their daughter. Life hadn't always been easy. but she was working hard to give her children a good life.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
On the 4th of July, the entire family got together at the pool and spent the day swimming, eating hot dogs and hamburgers, and just enjoying each other's company. But little did they know, their life was about to change forever when another man entered into Michelle's life.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, like we mentioned, Michelle broke up with her previous boyfriend, David Hernandez, after he had tried to kiss her nine-year-old daughter. But after their breakup, she was longing for some companionship. So in the summer of 2016, Michelle visited the online dating website called Plenty of Fish.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Their website reads, quote, we are committed to help ensure that you feel welcomed, safe, and free to be yourself while online dating. So that night, Michelle started scrolling, looking through all of the eligible men in her area. And eventually, she came across the profile of Fabian Gonzalez. He was 31 years old, Hispanic. He had children of his own.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And after looking through his pictures, Michelle thought he was attractive. So that night, the two started a conversation on the dating website. And before they knew it, they had plans to meet up in person. Now, one would think that after what happened with her previous boyfriend, that Michelle would be a little apprehensive about bringing new men around her children. But that wasn't the case.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
In fact, after just a couple weeks of dating, Fabian moved into their apartment.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
For Victoria's 10th birthday, instead of playing with her friends, she spent the day with meth users. Instead of opening presents, Victoria was raped inside of her bedroom. And instead of eating cake surrounded by her loved ones, Victoria was murdered, dismembered, and set on fire.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now under the conditions of his probation, Fabian was ordered to go to counseling, he was supposed to have random drug and alcohol testing, and supervised home visits. And I'm sure at first when Fabian was put on probation, he followed the rules. But months and months would pass and no one ever came checking on him.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
no random visits no drug tests or anything by 2016 he had been on probation for an entire year with no visits from his parole officer now the department of corrections would later be confronted about this and they said that they never received any documentation that he was required to be supervised so for that whole year they were supposed to be keeping an eye on him they weren't
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
Today we announce the bicameral, bipartisan Vanessa Guillen Military Justice Improvement and Increasing Prevention Act. Today we are announcing that the time has come. We're here today because each year 20,000 service members are sexually assaulted and another 100,000 are sexually harassed.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
We're here today because only one-third of those sexually assaulted feel comfortable reporting it for fear of retaliation and only 1% of those sexually harassed feel comfortable reporting. We're here today for the service members who have spoken out or who have suffered in silence because the message and culture in the military has been clear. Shut up, suck it up, and don't rock the boat.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
The UCMJ is a creation of Congress. We have the right and the responsibility to amend it when it fails to deliver justice. And that's why we are here today. Senator Gillibrand and I have dedicated the better part of 10 years to right this wrong. I first authored legislation on this topic on November 11, 2011, 10 years ago.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
The proposal was dismissed and attacked, as was I. But the voices of the victims and the survivors could no longer be silenced. The heinous murder of Vanessa Guillen, Specialist Vanessa Guillen, was the tipping point.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
Senator Gillibrand and I and our co-leads come together today with one voice and one plan to save service members from the fates of Specialist Guillen, Private First Class Asia Graham, Airman First Class Natasha Apashian, and so many others like them.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
The day after his daughters were sent to Texas was October 30th, 2022, the day before Halloween. And as the sun set on the quiet suburban town of Aurora, Colorado, no one had any idea that they were on the brink of an unimaginable tragedy. While most of the town was out celebrating, having fun in their Halloween costumes, Joseph Castorina was writhing with anger.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
For months, the feelings he had about their breakup had festered into something dark and sinister. After the protective order and these new charges against him, he knew he had lost full control over Jessica and their children. He couldn't bear the thought of losing them. And instead, he hatched a plan to get back at Jessica once and for all.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
He was prepared to do whatever it took to regain possession of what he believed was rightfully his. So in the early morning hours of October 30th, he grabbed his gun, the one that he wasn't supposed to have due to his protective order. And from there, he left his house and headed to 942 Geneva Street, the location where Jessica and her family lived.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
When Joseph finally arrived, video showed him creeping around the outside of the house, observing his surroundings, and somehow he was able to get inside. But as he entered the residence, he quickly saw that no one was home. So instead, he found a hiding spot and he waited. Eventually, at around 2 a.m.,
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Jessica, her father Jesus, her twin sister Maria, and Maria's husband Kenneth finally pulled in the driveway. The family had just come home from a party where they spent the night laughing and enjoying each other's company after a stressful week. As they walked into the home, no one suspected a thing.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
The Serrano family was settling in for the night, completely unaware that someone was watching and lurking in the shadows of their home. As they tucked themselves in, they thought they were safe and sound. Jessica even went to her bedroom, ready to jump into bed and go to sleep. But that's when she saw something out of the corner of her eye.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
In her closet, there was a jacket, some jeans, and car keys that were just laying there. and she knew exactly who they belonged to, her ex-boyfriend, Joseph Castorena. Now, Jessica knew that those items had not been there before she left that night, which led her to a terrifying conclusion, that Joseph had been in their home, and even worse, that he might still be there hiding.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
After realizing that he was dangerous, Jessica took all the right steps to protect herself from him. But in the end, he would hurt her in the most horrific way you can imagine. So this is the story of the Serrano family massacre. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
So immediately, Jessica grabbed her phone and dialed 911.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Immediately, police officers are dispatched to the scene. And while she waits for them, Jessica stays on the phone with 911. But horrifically, as her father, sister, and brother-in-law are downstairs, Joseph Castorina comes out of his hiding spot holding a gun. It's believed that the first person he shot was 20-year-old Kenneth Eugene Green Luque.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Joseph encountered him at the foot of the basement stairs and quickly fired off several shots. Directly behind him, Jessica's twin sister Maria watched as her husband dropped to the ground. Seeing this, she let out a terrified scream. And then Joseph turned the gun on her, shooting Maria two times. Upstairs, 51-year-old Jesus Serrano heard the gunfire down in the basement.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But before he could even react, Joseph Castorena was standing in front of him. Sadly, Jesus would be shot twice in the hallway of his home. But Joseph's reign of terror wasn't over just yet. Lastly, there was the Serrano's family friend, 49-year-old Rodolfo Salgado Perez. He had actually been renting out an RV on their property. And when he heard the gunshots, he ran over to see what was going on.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And like the others, when Joseph saw him, he was quickly shot and killed. Within seconds, four people had been gunned down within this home. And upstairs, Jessica Serrano heard everything. She heard the gunshots followed by her family screaming, and she knew that she would be next. So instinctively, she ran into a nearby bathroom, locking herself inside.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Now she had been on the phone with 911 during this whole thing. So you're about to hear her reaction to hearing her entire family get murdered. Trigger warning, it is very difficult to hear.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Officers were rushing to the scene, but the wait felt like an eternity. And after that initial bout of gunfire, the house went quiet. Joseph was looking for her. After all, she had been his intended target that night. So he went room to room hunting her down. Eventually, he reached the bedroom upstairs, and that's when he noticed that the bathroom door was locked.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
He tried his best to get inside, even shooting at the door, but he was struggling.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Eventually, Joseph is able to kick the door in. Once he did, Jessica saw him standing there holding a gun with a crazed look in his eye. Now, fortunately, he had run out of bullets, but that didn't stop him from going after her. So it's here where Jessica had to fight for her life.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Somehow, during the struggle, she was able to push him into the bathtub, and once she did, she ran as fast as she possibly could. On her way out of the house, she saw the body of her father, Jesus, but Joseph was right on her tail, and over the next few minutes, he chased her around like a madman. First, Jessica ran into the backyard, where she saw the body of their family friend, Rodolfo.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Then she ran back into the house, but Joseph was behind her the entire time. Finally, she made it out into the street, where she saw headlights in the distance. Jessica began frantically waving her arms, trying to get the car to stop, but they ended up driving past. However, seeing this, Joseph was spooked, and instead of trying to kill Jessica, he decided to flee the scene.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But clearly, Jessica was still in fight or flight. With adrenaline running through her body, she continued to run down Geneva Street, and that's when she encountered Sergeant Paul Davis at 2.16 a.m. Okay, come back here.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
As you just heard, Jessica came to the realization that her nieces were in the house. Maria and Kenneth's two young daughters, who were just one year old and three months old. Immediately, officers ran inside the house where luckily they found the children unharmed. It was reported that the girls were traumatized, but everyone was happy to see that they were alive.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
With four people gunned down inside of the home, first responders had the difficult task figuring out how to remove the children without them having to see the carnage that had been left behind.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Finding a life partner can be really hard. And at times it can be scary because in the beginning, when you first meet someone, they are always on their best behavior. They're showing you the best parts of themselves. They're treating you well, making you feel special and proving that they are worthy of your time. And typically that version of them is who you fall for.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But in the thick of her grief came anger because despite all of the problems she had had with Joseph, all of the threats, abuse, 911 calls and protective orders, he was still allowed to walk around free. And the worst part was that Jessica and her family saw this coming, which is exactly why they reached out to law enforcement for protection. But look where they were now.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
I already tried calling him. My sister tried calling him. He won't answer.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
I don't know. I just got home. I noticed my dad and mom were gone. They were over here. I called them. That had happened with Joseph.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Oh, I'm scared. I'm nervous.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Just my mom and sister. No, I seen them earlier before I left to work. Okay.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
I just seen him walk out the door.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
I think he said something about a haircut.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
We actually stopped by and drove around back to see where the gunman entered into the theater. And as you can imagine, it was incredibly eerie. Pictures of the scene showed blood covering the concrete outside and where the gunman had parked his vehicle. But now, over a decade later, It just looks like your average theater.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Now, after hours of searching around the neighborhood, there was still no sign of Joseph. But during the sweep of the Serrano's backyard, investigators found his discarded iPhone. Apparently, Joseph had either dropped it during his escape or he had left it behind on purpose.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But from here, the Aurora Police Department alerted the public that murderer Joseph Castorena was on the loose, and they warned that he could be armed and that he was dangerous. Residents were urged to shelter in place. And by now there was a massive manhunt to locate him. Police canine units were called in, drones were used, and eventually several witnesses came forward with some information.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Neighbors in the area stated that they had seen Joseph leaving the area on foot, but other people told investigators to take a closer look at his family. In fact, investigators would later say that Joseph's parents actually came to the crime scene hours later and attempted to interfere with the investigation. Apparently, his father even tried to punch one of the police sergeants.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Now we will definitely be covering that story on the podcast one day, but this tragedy really rocked the community of Aurora, as with any community that's been affected by gun violence. But a few years back in 2022, another violent tragedy would take place in Aurora, Colorado. The city that has always prided itself on sunshine and warmth was once again reminded that darkness,
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But as the town of Aurora woke up that morning, everyone learned of the unspeakable tragedy that had taken place. Here is the Aurora police chief, Daniel John Oates, updating the media on the status of the investigation.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
always has a way of creeping back in.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And that's what we were wondering as well. Before the massacre, Joseph forced Jessica into his vehicle as she was leaving work. He busted her car window out with a tire iron as she was trying to leave. And then he kept her at his house against her will, holding a gun against her. And Jessica took all the right steps. After that incident, she went to the police and got a protective order.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Her whole family did, and somehow this monster was able to walk around free.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Now, because Jessica and Joseph's daughters had just been sent to Texas the day prior, investigators feared that Joseph may have gone there. What if he had a plan to get his daughters back? They also had to consider the fact that Texas borders Mexico. And considering he is a fugitive wanted for a quadruple homicide, it wouldn't be far-fetched to assume he would try and flee the country.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
According to his family members, he had just visited Mexico only a year prior to attend his grandpa's funeral, so he had family there. But at the end of the day, investigators were still thinking that he was in Colorado. After all, he didn't even have shoes on when he fled the scene. He also didn't have a car. So the only way he could have fled is if he had accomplices.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
The next thing investigators did was track down Joseph's cousin, Carlos. And when they did, he admitted that he had picked Joseph up that night. He said that he even attempted to pass him off to other family members in the area, but that no one wanted to help. So instead, Carlos stated that he drove Joseph to a school and he dropped him off with a blanket and some cash.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But as for where Joseph went from there, Carlos had no idea. Now following this confession, Carlos Flores was arrested and charged with accessory after the fact for assisting in the getaway.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
After offering him some water and attempting to get him to open up about his role in the quadruple murder, Joseph refused to speak without an attorney.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Now, Jessica would put her foot down when things got really bad. She had actually left him on a number of times over the course of their relationship. But sadly, every time, Joseph would come running back to her, begging for another chance. He would give her all of these empty promises, telling her all of the ways he was going to change going forward.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
If you couldn't hear what he said back there, he said, quote, from what I've seen on the news, it's totally different, my side, on how things happened, end quote. But I think it was pretty clear to everyone what really happened here. Now in March of 2023, Joseph was extradited back to Colorado and charged with four counts of first degree murder.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
One count for each victim, Jesus Serrano, Maria Serrano, Kenneth Luque, and Rodolfo Salgado Perez. He was also charged with one count of attempted murder for the attack against his ex-girlfriend, Jessica Serrano.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Although the victims and their family members were happy to see that Joseph was finally arrested, their lives had been completely turned upside down. Kenneth's family members were desperately trying to bring his body back to his home country of Honduras. According to his mother, Soyapa, Kenneth had moved to the United States when he was just 14 years old. He was looking for a better life.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And being the good person she is, Jessica would give him the chance to prove himself. After all, he was the father of her children. She wanted her daughters to grow up with their dad, so she would take him back. But without fail, after a brief period of him being on his best behavior, Joseph Castorena always reverted back to his old ways.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And for a while, he had found one. His mom told Denver 7, quote, I never imagined this would happen to my son because he was such a good boy, very educated, very respectful. They cut my son's dreams and hopes short. He was a 20-year-old boy, but filled with dreams and hopes, end quote. She also heartbreakingly admitted that she hadn't seen Kenneth for six years.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But their family had plans to reunite for Christmas, which was in just a few short months. However, they clearly never got the chance. His mom went on to say, "...if they arrest him, if they put him in prison, if they end his life, it's not going to bring my son back. But I do want justice for him. I want justice for my son." End quote.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Now, a GoFundMe was created to help with the expenses of bringing Kenneth's body back to Honduras, but there are no updates on whether or not that ever happened. And then there's Kenneth and Maria's two children, the ones who were at the home when the shooting took place. At the time, like I mentioned, they were just one year old and three months old.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But with both of their parents now murdered and their grandfather, the kids sadly had to go into foster care. An entire family that was completely torn apart by this tragedy.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
When the verdict was announced, surviving members of the Serrano family embraced each other in the courtroom. They finally had their justice. But Joseph's family was outraged. They even yelled at the prosecution as they left the room. Keep in mind, these are the same people who bailed Joseph out of jail time and time again. despite knowing of his horrific abuse.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But deep down within every human are flaws, personality traits that we aren't proud of. And usually after being with someone for a while, you begin to see those traits creeping in. At the end of the day, you can't hide them forever. But even after witnessing these red flags, You keep going back to those good qualities you saw in the beginning.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And even with the overwhelming evidence against him and the fact that he murdered an entire family, they continued supporting him. Seems like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Now as for Joseph's brother Juan and his cousin Carlos, both men pleaded guilty to their roles in the crime. However, their sentencing is unknown.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Joseph and Jessica had been on this vicious and never-ending cycle for years. Their relationship was plagued with domestic violence, frequent breakups, and an unhealthy obsession. Every time Jessica got back together with him, It was only a matter of time until he started being controlling, jealous, and violent.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
I haven't been able to stop thinking about Jessica since I came across that body cam footage of her on the night of the murders. And my heart just breaks for her. Even before the murders, this monster took so much from her, her peace, her sense of security, her ability to trust, even her children.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But then she made the incredibly brave decision to leave, a decision that she probably went back and forth on for years. When she finally did take that step, she knew how dangerous it could be, but she also knew how dangerous it would be to stay with this man for the rest of her life. So she did it. She left him, and in return, he showed up at her place of work.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
pulled a gun on her, shattered her car window, held her against her will, threatened to kill her and threatened to kill her family. And even after this, Jessica took all the right steps. She and her family members went to the police and reported it. They got a restraining order. but somehow he was able to slip through the cracks.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And in the end, Jessica lost her family because of it, her own father and twin sister. This case is a huge example of the failures within our system. These protection orders sound like a good idea and sometimes they do work. According to Denver 7, the US Department of Justice issued a report in 2010 regarding the effectiveness of protection orders.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
The report followed 210 women who filed protection orders and they found that half of them had no violations and half had been violated. And like I mentioned, they're just pieces of paper. And for monsters like Joseph Castorena, they mean nothing. How many true crime stories have you heard that
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
or just like this one, where women fear for their lives, but despite escalating behaviors and restraining orders, their partner's violence continues. I know I have heard plenty, and every time it breaks my heart. We can only hope that one day that changes.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But for today's episode, we will be making a donation to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, an organization that works to protect women just like Jessica Serrano.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But one of the worst times of their relationship occurred in August of 2020, when Jessica and Joseph's daughter was rushed to the Children's Hospital in Colorado. She was only three months old at the time, and she was severely injured. When the doctors looked at her little body, they saw that she had a broken arm and multiple skull fractures.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
As it turns out, Joseph's abuse wasn't just towards Jessica, but his children as well. Now, following this, he was arrested and charged with felony child abuse. And this is also the year that Jessica decided to leave Joseph once and for all. It had taken her years to finally come to this realization, but she knew she couldn't live the rest of her life being afraid.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
She had already lost so much because of this man. So she made the brave decision to leave. And Jessica was moving on with her life. That year, she got on Facebook and saw that she had a message from someone. She didn't know the guy, but from what she could tell by his profile picture, He was attractive, and based on his message, he wanted to get to know her better.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
So from there, the two began messaging back and forth. I'm sure it was refreshing to talk to someone new, to get to know this guy. Eventually, he even asked her out on a date, to which Jessica said yes. But as soon as she did, she learned that this guy she was messaging
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
wasn't even real it was joseph he had made an entire fake facebook account using someone else's name in pictures he then started messaging jessica pretending to be this guy and when jessica agreed to go on the date joseph revealed that he was the person she had been talking to the entire time following that he flew into a rage
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
It was very clear to Jessica and her entire family that Joseph was extremely unstable. It seemed that after their breakup, his obsession with her got even stronger and soon enough his behavior would escalate.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Luckily, her car was in the parking lot, so she quickly ran towards it. But as she did, Joseph was right on her tail. Fortunately, Jessica was able to get into the driver's seat and lock the door. But as she put her car in reverse, Joseph was standing there at her driver's side door. And horrifically, he was holding a tire iron. Jessica tried her best to get away, but before she knew it,
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
You think to yourself that surely that good person is still somewhere within them. However, sometimes that's not the case. There are people out there where once they find a partner, something changes within them. They become possessive, manipulative, controlling, abusive. And after a while, that good person you once knew in the beginning is no longer there.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Joseph smashed in her window with that tire iron. There was glass everywhere, and she even got a few minor cuts. But from there, Joseph was able to get a hold of her. Later that day, Jessica's father, Jesus Serrano, was at his house when he started to get a horrible feeling. Jessica usually came home from work by now, and she still wasn't back.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
It wouldn't be until the following afternoon on October 24th when Jessica finally came back home shaken up and covered in cuts. Apparently, Joseph had held Jessica against her will for an entire day before she was able to escape. And while he was holding her hostage at his house, Joseph's family was apparently witnessing the entire thing without stepping in to help.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Now, as you can imagine, when Jessica's family heard this story, they were horrified. They knew that Joseph was a dangerous man. In fact, they had even heard him threaten Jessica in the past. So that afternoon, when she finally came back home, they decided it was time to file a police report.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Jessica's twin sister, Maria, said, quote, she told me that Joseph was waiting for her outside of work and he told her that she was going to spend the night at his house. Once she refused, he took out his gun and put it against her and he broke her car window. He took out a gun on my sister and put it against her waist on the right side. He told her to stay at his house with him.
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
His whole parents and sisters watched and didn't do anything. Joseph and my sister have had many incidents that have happened within the past 10 years. My family and I have been going through all of this for 3 years straight and we're getting tired of it. He ends up getting arrested and he's out on bail the very next day. I just don't want him nowhere near my daughters.
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
The dangerous part about dating someone like this is that sometimes, even when you try to leave, they don't always take no for an answer. And they are willing to do just about anything to keep that control over you. Today's story is about just that. a man named Joseph Castorina, who abused and terrorized his girlfriend, Jessica, for years.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Rusty was also more of the social type, while Andrea was more reserved, so... they complimented each other well. The two would go on to date for the next three years before they decided to move in together in 1992. And it was during that summer when Rusty introduced Andrea to his evangelical pastor friend, Michael Waranecki. He also introduced her to Michael's wife, Rachel.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now like we mentioned earlier, Michael had been a huge inspiration to Rusty in college, and he wanted Andrea to hear their teachings as well. Around this time, Andrea even started writing letters to Rachel Waranecki. Now we don't know exactly what she wrote in these letters, but Rachel did write her back. In one letter, she thanks Andrea for sending cookies.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And in another, she thanked her for sending money. I guess she and Rusty were sending them funds so they could continue preaching around the world. But in one of the letters that Rachel sent to Andrea, there was a picture of her husband, Michael, standing under this banner that read, quote, all that matters is that you are a sinner headed to hell, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
In the second letter, Rachel instructed Andrea to, quote, seek Jesus instead of Rusty, her boyfriend. Now, Andrea seemed to really love the Warneckys. Like Rusty, she valued their teachings and they would go on to play a big part in their lives.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And from that point on, nearly every household in America knew the names of Mary, John, Luke, Paul, and Noah. The five young children murdered at the hands of their own mother. So this is the story of Andrea Yates. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On February 26th, 1994, their son, Noah Jacob Yates, would make his way into the world. Andrea wanted to have a natural birth, so she opted for no epidural. And in the end, it was all worth it. Noah would completely change their lives. Andrea was described as a good mother. With Rusty's salary of $80,000 a year, Andrea chose to quit her nursing job and focus solely on parenting their son.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
For that first year, Andrea spent all of her time taking care of their son. She breastfed him, played with him, read to him. cleaned up after him, and eventually taught Noah how to walk. Andrea liked being a stay-at-home mom. It was a traditional life where Rusty provided and she stayed home to do her wifely duties, which in their mind was just how God intended.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And in the beginning, it seemed to have worked for them. But before they knew it, without even trying, Andrea was pregnant with their second child. She and Rusty used to joke about how easy it was for her to get pregnant. He even called her the nickname, Fertile Myrtle.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But with their growing family, Rusty Yates had a pretty strict way of running their household, especially when it came to their finances. That year, Rusty had purchased a filing cabinet with all of these labeled files inside like groceries, gas, clothing, utilities. And each month, he would fill each file with a certain amount of money. He called it the bank.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And anytime Andrea needed money for, let's say, food, she would open up the cabinet, go to the grocery tab, and pull out however much money she needed for the day. This system seemed to work for them, and they were pretty well off, even with Andrea staying home. On December 15th, 1995, Andrea would give birth to their second child, a son named John Samuel Yates.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And while she absolutely loved him, life with two children was overwhelming to say the least. Newborns need constant care, and toddlers need to be watched at all times. Then on top of that, she was also in charge of cleaning the house, doing laundry, cooking dinner, giving the boys their baths at night, and getting them ready for bed. She was having to do it all by herself.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But Andrea didn't like to burden her husband. So even when she felt like she was drowning in responsibilities, she never complained. She was the type of wife where when she got groceries, she never asked her husband to help carry them inside. Instead, she would pile as many bags in her hands as she could and do it all herself. But that's not to say that Rusty wasn't a good husband or father.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
He loved his family. When he would get home after a long day of work, He would sometimes even take their oldest son Noah out of the house so that Andrea could have a break and a moment of peace.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
By October of 1996, the Yates family had officially purchased their small travel trailer that they hooked up to their blue Suburban and they started getting ready for their move to Florida. They even rented out their home in Friendswood and they sold a bunch of their stuff like their furniture and wedding gifts. Their goal was to only keep the possessions they truly needed.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But after a few weeks, they had finally packed up the trailer and were ready to start this new chapter of their lives. On October 12th, 1996, Rusty, Andrea, Noah, and John arrived at the Lazy Days RV campground in Hitchcock, Texas. They only planned on staying there for a few weeks before they officially made the move,
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But the RV manager, Belinda Green, would later say that the family seemed in good spirits. Rusty even talked with her about how he was debt-free and ready to live a life of simplicity. But these first few weeks were definitely an adjustment for them. They went from having a house to a 38-foot trailer. But of course, Andrea wasn't one to complain.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And by November, they officially set off for Clearwater, Florida. Upon arriving, Rusty immediately started work at his new job, and Andrea explored her new life with her children in a new state. Now, something she really loved to do when the children were younger was pull out their recorder and film special memories.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
In early January 1997, Andrea filmed a video of Rusty and little Noah cramped inside the trailer's bathroom and Noah is pretending to shave his face just like his dad. Andrea can be heard in the background laughing at the special moment. In May of that year, she filmed another video of Noah riding his bicycle through the RV park. Andrea can be heard saying, quote, "'There's our boys.'"
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
as one-year-old John waddled behind his big brother. This time period was a happy one for their family, before everything would take a dark turn. Andrea was even pregnant with their third child.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On September 13th, 1997, Andrea and Rusty welcomed their third son, Paul Abraham. Paul was a wonderful addition to the Yates family, and Andrea couldn't wait to show him off to Belinda. They all seemed so happy. From the outside looking in, Andrea and Rusty were the perfect doting parents of three young boys. But Belinda was able to get a firsthand account of what their family dynamic looked like.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
After all, she saw them every day. And something she noticed was that their family wasn't very affectionate. There were never any hugs or kisses, no positive affirmations, words of encouragement, or even I love you's from what she saw. And that's not to say it didn't happen. Belinda just never saw it. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. every family is different.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
However, Andrea was described as calm, but almost robotic. She didn't show a lot of emotion. And at times, Belinda said she looked detached. Andrea's older brother, Andrew, noticed this too. But she wasn't always that way, he said. In fact, he noticed this shift in his sister after she started having children. He would see this blank look come across her face.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But when Andrew would ask if she was all right, Andrea was always quick to say that she was fine. However, Andrew knew better. He would later say that he had seen that same blank robotic stare on their father's face after he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Like her father, Andrew said that Andrea was physically present, but her expressions were vacant and not wanting to burden anyone.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She always kept everything to herself.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
you
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
they met up with the Waraneckis, not only because they looked up to them, but the Waraneckis were also selling this Greyhound bus. It was an old beat up one, but Rusty decided to buy it from them. He wanted to eventually fix it up and travel the country with his family. And the trailer they had back home just wasn't the right bus for that. So they bought this one and brought it back to Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now, the entire time they had been living in the RV park, they had been renting out their house in Friendswood. But in October of 1998, they officially sold that house and used the money to renovate this new Greyhound bus that they bought from the Waraneckis. So as you can imagine, it was a pretty chaotic time for their family. They now had three young boys living in this small trailer.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
they're renovating this new bus, and Andrea found out she was pregnant with their fourth child. But throughout this time, the one person that Andrea seemed to keep in contact with was Rachel Waranecki. And in their letters to each other, Rachel talked a lot about eternal damnation. In one letter to Andrea, Rachel told her that she, quote, "'Must get right with God before it's too late.'"
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She continued by saying, The window of opportunity that God has opened up for you at this time, through us, will only stay open for a certain time. All the rebuke, confrontation, and sharing that went on between us was intended to affect your souls for salvation. If you allow Satan to come in and steal the understanding, the consequences will be tragic.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now again, I am not talking poorly of anyone's religion, but fire and brimstone teachings like this can be really scary for people, especially for people who are not mentally well. And as you'll soon learn, Andrea Yates' mental health was about to take a downward spiral.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
After the birth of her fourth son, something changed in Andrea. She was no longer seen walking her children around the park. She didn't stop by the office to chat with anyone, and she grew even more withdrawn from the outside world. The weight of postpartum depression had crept in and taken its hold on her.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Every day felt like a constant cycle of cooking, cleaning, entertaining the children, and changing the reusable cloth diapers that they used. And there was nothing to help relieve any of this pressure. Andrea didn't have many friends. Her husband worked all the time and she spent all day every day alone with her boys. By June of 1999, Andrea was on the verge of a mental breakdown.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
For years, she had tried her best not to complain about her mental struggles. But for the past few weeks, she finally opened up to her husband about feeling, quote,
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
sad and depressed she said she tried to pray these feelings away but nothing seemed to help and then finally on june 16 1999 while rusty was at work andrea called her husband and told him to come home immediately when rusty finally arrived he found andrea sitting in the back of the bus in a state of extreme distress she was physically shaking biting her fingers
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
and her legs were bouncing up and down. It's here where she told her husband that she desperately needed help. But sadly, instead of taking her to a doctor, Rusty took her and the boys on a walk along Galveston Bay. The next morning, June 17th,
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
rusty drove andrea and the boys to her parents house hoping that maybe seeing family members would help her feel better but unbeknownst to him and everyone andrea yates needed a lot more than that because that day while her boys napped andrea snuck into her father's bathroom opened up his medicine cabinet and swallowed over 50 trazodone pills
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Trazodone is a strong sedative, and with everything going on in her life, Andrea was hoping to take them and fall asleep forever. She no longer wanted to be here, and if it wasn't for her mother, she likely would have died that day. But soon after taking the pills, her mom walked in the bedroom to tell her that Luke had woken up from his nap and needed to be fed.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
However, Andrea responded that she couldn't feed Luke because of all the pills she just took. Immediately, Karen Kennedy called 911 and Andrea was taken by ambulance to the emergency room. Once there, they fed her charcoal to induce vomiting. And once she was stable, a doctor diagnosed her with major depressive disorder.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And because she had tried to take her own life, she was then transferred to the psychiatric unit at Methodist Hospital.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So now you can probably see how Andrea's correspondence with Rachel Waranecki and her fire and brimstone teachings wouldn't have been good for her during this time. For someone already struggling with postpartum depression and suicidal ideations, hearing from a pastor that she quote, must get right with God before it's too late, end quote, isn't going to do anything good.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But while at the psychiatric hospital, a social worker asked about their living arrangements. Andrea and Rusty told her about the Greyhound bus they were living in, and she was completely taken aback. To her, six people crammed into 350 square feet of space would be overwhelming for anyone.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Rusty also mentioned something about how he was teaching his children how to woodwork and that he even allowed his three-year-old to use power tools. And to the social worker listening to this, she was concerned. So much so, she even contacted the CPS abuse hotline on June 23rd, 1999.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So with that, on June 24th, 1999, Andrea Yates was released from the hospital. Before leaving, she agreed to stay diligent about taking her new medication, and she promised to see her new outpatient therapist, Dr. Eileen Starbranch, several times a week. and she would keep that promise for the time being. During her first therapy session with Dr. Starbranch, Andrea was visibly nervous.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She sat in a chair shaking the entire time and she barely spoke. After that session, her doctor suggested that Andrea stopped taking her antidepressant and instead switched to an antipsychotic called Zyprexa, which is used to treat bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. The doctor even sent her home with the medication to see how she reacted to the drug. But later that night,
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Andrea flushed them down the toilet. And sadly, from here, she would not get any better. Over the next few weeks while back at home, her family stayed around to keep an eye on her. But Andrea started having both visual and auditory hallucinations. She even began pulling out clumps of her hair. Now her doctors warned her family that she may still be at risk of harming herself.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So just to be safe, Rusty went through the bus and hid anything that she could harm herself with, including guns, knives, and medication. But about four weeks after she was discharged from the hospital, the hallucinations got so bad, she started hearing voices telling her to go look for the knives. And eventually, when no one was looking, she would find them.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
From there, she snuck into the bathroom and began slicing the skin on her legs. After a few minutes, Rusty heard the commotion inside and opened up the door. When he did, he saw Andrea holding the butcher knife up to her neck. Here is Rusty describing what he saw that day to 60 Minutes.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
The following day on July 21st, 1999, Andrea Yates was admitted to Memorial Spring Shadows Glen in Houston, a private psychiatric hospital. One of the hospital nurses had come into Andrea's room to ask questions. But Andrea remained silent and catatonic. So Rusty had to answer the questions for her. He admitted that Andrea had not been on top of her Zoloft medication.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She would miss doses here and there. And as for the antipsychotic drug Zyprexa, well, she hadn't been taking that at all. Rusty also told them that Andrea would usually wake up in a good mood. but throughout the day is when she got worse. He even told the nurse, quote, I don't think she has much hope, end quote. And many of the hospital staff would say that Andrea was not an easy patient.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Throughout that first week at the hospital, she refused to take any of her medications. She even refused to sign a consent for medication form. When food was brought to her room, she hardly ever touched it. She wouldn't shower or dress herself. And when they brought her in for psychological evaluations, she wouldn't even speak.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Staff wrote down in her notes that she was, quote, withdrawn, suspicious, and paranoid. And at one point, she even appeared to be frightened.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Ironically, Andrea loved the water. She learned how to swim at a very young age, and her parents always knew that she'd be safe swimming at any depth, which is pretty important when you live near the water, like the Kennedys. Andrea loved swimming so much, she would eventually join the swim team at her school.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But back at the psychiatric hospital, Andrea was still not cooperating with the staff. So they were forced to give her an emergency injection of an antipsychotic drug called Haldol. A few hours after the injection, Rusty called Andrea on the phone. And for the first time in days, she briefly spoke with him.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
By all accounts, everyone at the hospital noticed that Rusty was concerned with Andrea's mental health and wellbeing. He even brought her flowers and visited whenever he could. In the evenings, he would sit next to her on the couch and stroke her hair. On July 27th, Andrea was given another emergency injection of Haldol, and from there, she finally agreed to speak with a social worker.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
The first time since she was admitted, Andrea finally opened up about her mental struggles, and she told the staff that she had been depressed ever since the birth of their first child five years back. It seemed as if her postpartum depression never really went away since she was having babies back to back. She also opened up to them about how her husband never really helped her over the years.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And because of that, she was extremely overwhelmed. However, she did admit that after her suicide attempt, Rusty had been more helpful with the children. When asked what would help alleviate some of that stress, Andrea said she needed more help at home with the kids. and that she needed to find some hobbies for herself.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She knew that sitting around all day every day with no breaks and no taking care of herself wasn't healthy for her. Now as for her first suicide attempt, Andrea said that she was disappointed in herself. She told the social worker quote, I'm a nurse. I should have known what kind of OD to take."
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
When asked about her second suicide attempt, Andrea admitted that she had been hearing voices and seeing visions of knives. She said, quote, I had a fear I would hurt somebody. I thought it better to end my own life and prevent it. I had a vision in my mind. Get a knife, get a knife, get a knife. I had a vision of this person dying. being stabbed."
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now when the doctors asked who she thought about stabbing, she refused to answer, but she said that the hallucinations were so strong, Andrea decided to end her life. So she found the knife and went to the bathroom to kill herself. When Rusty opened the door that day, she was trying to locate a pulse point in her neck so she could slit her throat, but Rusty intervened before she could.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now, one thing about the Kennedy family was that they were very goal-oriented and they set high standards for their children. So Andrea decided that she was going to be the best swimmer on her team. And she was. For years, Andrea would spend two hours after school, Monday through Friday, swimming laps and perfecting her craft. She even became her swim team's captain.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now, at this point in the evaluation, the doctors asked Andrea, exactly when did you start having these hallucinations? And shockingly, she admitted that they had started around five years ago after the birth of her first son, Noah. But they weren't as strong back then, she said. She could easily brush them out of her mind.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
However, with the birth of each child, the hallucinations got harder and harder to ignore.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
The day after she was discharged, Andrea attended an outpatient therapy session with Dr. Starbranch. And during it, she talked about how guilty she felt for having to leave her children for three weeks while she was admitted. She didn't want to have to go back there, she said. She also told Dr. Starbranch about her hesitation to take her medication. Andrea said they made her feel weird.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Her coach, Lana Dunlap, would later say, quote, "'She got along with anybody and everybody. She was very mature for her age compared to a lot who come through here. She seemed to be focused on what she had to do for her schoolwork.'" focused on completing her assignment, staying in the swimming pool. She's not one that you had to yell at to quit playing in the water and finish up.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She felt different and weak. And lately, she had actually been feeling a lot better. Dr. Starbranch had to remind Andrea that although she was feeling slightly better, she had to continue taking her medication and that her feeling better is because of the medication. Luckily, Andrea agreed. Now, six days after this therapy session, Andrea would see Dr. Starbranch again.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And this time, she reported that she felt about 75% back to normal. She said that Rusty was even allowing her to spend some time by herself for a few hours a week. By all accounts, her medication seemed to have been working. For the first time in a while, things were looking up for the Yates family. Rusty had been hard at work making their new house into a home.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
He built bunk beds for the boys and had even promised to help Andrea Moore by working half the day at home. Now in the mornings when he had to go into work, Andrea's mom would be there to help. And things were going well for them. So much so that during Andrea's next session with Dr. Starbranch, she made a startling confession.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Andrea told her that she wanted to stop taking her medication, homeschool her boys, and... To Dr. Starbranch's surprise, she said that she and Rusty were even wanting to get pregnant again. Dr. Starbranch couldn't help but notice how excited Andrea seemed, talking about their future. But having another baby was the last thing that Andrea needed.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Clearly, her postpartum experiences were driving her insane. And her medication was the only thing keeping that at bay. During their session, Dr. Starbranch even wrote down in her notes, quote, apparently patient and husband plan to have as many babies as nature will allow. This will surely guarantee future psychotic depression, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
During this time... Andrea had not only been going to private therapy sessions, but she had also been going to group therapy where she talked with other mothers going through similar experiences. In one of her groups, she talked about how she was going to continue therapy at a facility in Clear Lake. So it seemed like she was truly committed to getting better.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She also talked about how she was going to homeschool her boys. Andrea was adamant that all of her children were going to be homeschooled because she feared what habits they would pick up in public school, so she was committed to doing it all herself. During these sessions, she also talked about how much she disliked her medication. She did not when it continued taking them.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
I wish I'd had every one of them on there just like that. It'd make coaching a whole lot easier. End quote. Now on top of swimming, Andrea was also very intelligent. She worked hard in school, earning her a membership in the National Honor Society. Her former biology teacher, Mrs. Judy Bradley said, quote, "'She had good character, good morals.'"
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On October 14th, both Rusty and Andrea attended a therapy session with Dr. Starbranch. And during it, she admitted that she had stopped taking her antipsychotic. Now she said it was because of an insurance issue. And despite not taking it, she said she felt great. She finally felt like herself again.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She had even gotten her appetite back, felt more energetic, and she claimed she hadn't been having any hallucinations. But Dr. Starbranch was definitely suspicious. And again, she told Andrea that even though she might feel better, she needs to keep taking her medication. So this time, she prescribed her a different antipsychotic, the one she had been taking earlier that year called Zyprexa.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She told Andrea that she was to take that with her antidepressants Welbutrin and Effexor. Andrea agreed, and from there, she and Rusty left. By December of that year, when she met with Dr. Starbrinch again, Andrea reported that she was, quote, doing great. She was no longer symptomatic, she had been homeschooling Noah with no issues, and there were no hallucinations or delusions.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Rusty confirmed this. He told the doctor that Andrea had been doing great. That month, She had spent her time baking cookies, doing arts and crafts, sewing costumes for the holidays, and spending time with her boys. Now the one symptom she said she still had was that she felt restless at night. And because of that, she said she wanted to completely get off all of her medications.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now both Dr. Starbranch and Rusty were skeptical of this. Sure, Andrea was doing better, but who knows what would happen if she got off all medication. But little did either of them know, Andrea hadn't been taking her medicine. In fact, in January of 2000, she admitted to Dr. Starbranch that she had completely stopped taking all of her medicine two months back. in November.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Dr. Starbranch wrote in her notes, quote, patient admits she's off all meds since November of 99. Husband says he didn't like her doing this, but she seems to be doing okay. Patient wants to be off meds and less symptomatic. Husband agrees.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
end quote sadly this would be andrea's last visit to dr starbranch and by march of 2000 andrea yates was pregnant yet again from the outside looking in everything seemed to be going well for their family they had a beautiful home the boys were doing well in homeschool andrea seemed to be doing better
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She would sit on the quiet side of the student body in the classrooms, but she would participate in class discussions and class activities and certainly was friendly, but she was not the very outgoing, glad-handing type of student. She seemed to enjoy her relationships with the other students. She was definitely more of a participant rather than a leader."
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
The death of Andrea's father triggered something within her. Of course, losing a parent is hard on anyone, but for a woman who just had a baby and already struggled with her mental health, this seemed to have sent Andrea over the edge. Following her father's death, she stopped eating and drinking. She would hardly even speak to anyone.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
In just a few short weeks, she had lost a ton of weight and would only sleep a few hours a night. When it came to her four-month-old daughter, Andrea would refuse to put her down out of fear that something would happen. Soon enough, Andrea's family grew really concerned. They feared that it was only a matter of time until she attempted suicide again.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So Rusty began calling hospitals in their area that accepted their insurance. Eventually, he would speak to Dr. Ellen Alberton. at the Devereux, Texas Treatment Network in League City, Texas. And over the phone, he told the doctor that his wife, quote, could not survive another night at home, end quote. So on March 31st, 2001, Andrea Yates was admitted once again.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And this is what a lot of people said about her. Andrea Kennedy had a good group of friends. She was well-liked, but she definitely didn't want to be the center of attention. Andrea preferred to blend in with the crowd. She never attended any school dances or social functions, and she liked to dress modestly. On the weekends, she preferred to stay home with her family.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
After a brief examination, she was diagnosed with recurrent major depression. The doctors asked Andrea if she was suicidal, but she refused to answer, and they wrote down in her notes that she had, quote, extreme suspiciousness and paranoia, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But during her stay in this hospital, Andrea was not taking care of herself. She wouldn't shower or eat or take any of her medicine. But what they were really concerned about is that she wouldn't drink anything. Her doctors began to worry about her going into kidney failure.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So they basically sat her down with Rusty and told her that if she didn't start cooperating, they were going to send her to the Austin State Hospital where she wouldn't be allowed to refuse treatment. And from there, Andrea finally agreed to start taking her medication again, which included her antidepressants Welbutrin and Effexor and two antipsychotics, Respiradol and Congentin.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She also finally started eating and drinking again. On April 9th, Dr. Saeed wrote, quote, patient looked much better today, end quote. But then the following day on April 10th, Andrea seemed to regress. That morning, she began pacing around her hospital room, refusing to eat. Then the next day after that, she was doing better again.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On April 11th, Dr. Saeed reported, quote, patient ate a good breakfast. Eye contact improved. End quote. He also showed her a video about depression and the doctor wrote, quote, seemed very interested in video. Patient watched it all the way through. End quote. Now her progress here varied day to day. Some days she would be fine, while others she was completely catatonic.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But after watching that depression video, Andrea told the doctors that she was feeling much better and that she wanted to be discharged. Shockingly, Rusty agreed. He said that he believed Andrea was showing a 65% improvement. And surprisingly, even though her progress had been fluctuating all week, Andrea was discharged on April 12th, 2001, just 13 days after she had been admitted.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Marlene Wark, who was her best friend from eighth grade up until college, would later say that while most kids their age wanted to be away from their parents, Andrea loved spending time with hers. And in her free time, she would often sit in her room and read books about biology and chemistry.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
With Rusty going back to work, his mom Dora flew in from Tennessee to stay with them for a few weeks. But Rusty wasn't really open with his mom about what Andrea had been going through. She just thought that Andrea needed help around the house, not that she couldn't be left alone with her children. But nonetheless, Dora came to Texas and was so excited to spend the week with her grandchildren.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
When you hear the names Mary, John, Luke, Paul, and Noah, what comes to mind? For most people, they will recognize that they are biblical names. But if you were to ask that during the summer of 2001, you might get a different answer. For many people who followed true crime back then, those names would have been very familiar as they were plastered across TVs and newspapers all over the country.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
However, one afternoon, Andrea was acting strangely. Andrea's behavior was concerning. While the kids were playing in the living room, she went into her bathroom, closed the drain to the bathtub, and turned the water on. Slowly, the water filled up the tub. Eventually, the oldest son Noah wandered into the bathroom and saw that his mom was just sitting there in front of the filled tub.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
He was so concerned about what he saw, he ran out into the living room and told his grandma. Dora also thought this was odd. It was the middle of the afternoon and the children didn't take their baths until nighttime. So why did she fill it up? When Dora asked Andrea this question, she simply responded, quote, just in case I need it.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Dora could tell that something was definitely wrong with Andrea. Throughout the time she had been there, Andrea seemed very robotic. She barely spoke throughout the day and showed no emotion. And strangely, she would randomly fill up the bathtub in the middle of the day several times that week. but she never told anyone why.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
However, they could have never known that her filling up the bathtub was a dark foreshadowing of what was to come. And in just about a month's time, the Yates family would be known all around the world.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Her family and teachers said that she was a very curious girl who was always asking questions and wanting to learn about the world around her. Education was important. And in 1982, she would actually graduate valedictorian of her class.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
In the summer of 1989, the pool at Andrea's apartment complex became crowded with people trying to escape the Texas heat. One of these people was 25-year-old NASA employee, Rusty Yates. That day, he made his way down to the pool with plans to lay out in the sun and listen to music. But as he spread his towel out on the lounge chair,
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
He couldn't help but notice a tall, thin brunette woman in a bikini floating in the water. Rusty thought she was beautiful. He even approached her and tried to make small talk, but she didn't seem very interested. When Rusty left the pool that day, he wanted to get to know her more. And luckily for him, this wouldn't be the only time the two would cross paths.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But an even more recognizable name that will still turn heads today, over two decades later, is the name Andrea Yates. In June of 2001, the Yates family was living in a quiet residential neighborhood in Houston, Texas.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now, even though Rusty was considered popular, he never really had many girlfriends. His senior year of high school, he had his first girlfriend, but it didn't last. He was more focused on his plans for after high school. During his senior year, he received a scholarship for Auburn University's Navy ROTC program.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So in 1982, after graduating third in his high school class, he made his way to Alabama for college. During the first two years at Auburn, Rusty did really well for himself. He even served on a Navy destroyer. But in 1984, he decided that the military program was no longer for him, so he gave up his scholarship and switched his major to mathematical engineering.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
and to help pay for his classes, he often tutored college athletes. It's also around this time when Rusty went through some self-discovery, as most people do when they're on their own for the first time.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
You see, throughout Rusty's life, he had always been a devout Methodist, but while in college, he met this traveling evangelical preacher named Michael Waranecki, and he would change his entire perspective. Michael came to preach at his campus one day, and his sermon was about following Jesus, not the church. And as Rusty listened to his sermon, he felt awakened.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Afterwards, he even called his mother to tell her about it. But as you will soon see, Michael Waranecki is known to have some controversial fire and brimstone type teachings. In his sermons, he has talked about how organized religion has watered down God's message over time. He tells his followers that the entire world is evil, especially many women.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
He believes that since all women come from Eve, we are naturally more evil than men and that we need to be subservient to them so they can help guide us. Now, I'm not talking poorly about anyone's religion. These are just some teachings of his that have been controversial, and it will play a very important part of this story later on.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But after Rusty met this pastor and started following his teachings, the two would actually keep in touch for years to come.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
However, their home, located at 942 Beachcomber Lane, would soon be the site of a media frenzy after the world learned that five young children had lost their lives inside the home's primary bathroom. On the day in question, Andrea Yates filled up the bathtub, and one by one, she held each of her children's heads underwater until they stopped breathing.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
By 1989, Rusty was working at NASA full time and he was living at the Sunscape Apartments, the very apartment where he had been mesmerized by the beautiful brunette in the pool. After seeing her for the first time, Rusty hoped to run into her again. But by that point, the summer had turned to fall so there weren't many people out by the pool anymore.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
It seemed as if Rusty had missed his opportunity with her. But luckily for him, one night when he was sitting in his apartment, he heard a knock on his front door. And when he opened it, there she was. The woman introduced herself as Andrea Kennedy, and she wanted to know if Rusty had seen anything unusual in the parking lot the night before.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Apparently someone had hit her car and left without leaving a note. And while this story was true, Andrea would later admit that she purposefully knocked on his door that night because she had seen Rusty around the apartment complex and she too wanted to get to know him. Over the next few weeks, Rusty and Andrea would get to know each other more. And eventually, he asked her out.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Andrea would later say that she was happy with Rusty. He was her very first boyfriend. And the past few years of her life had been a bit lonely. Andrea really liked him. Rusty seemed to have felt the same way about her. The two were undeniably compatible. Both were religious, smart. She was a nurse at MD Anderson, and he was an engineer at NASA, so they were both successful in their careers.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Yeah.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
April was the period of...
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Before we get into this episode, I'm gonna give you an overview about this case. I know we already gave you a three part series on it, but it was many months ago. So just as a refresher, April Lynn Holt was a 29 year old living in Nashville, Tennessee. In 2023, she was building her career as a lash artist. She was a mother of two beautiful children named Serenity and Denzel.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
We were getting ready for... Jamie, do you promise you're just listening?
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And she was also married to a man named Donovan Holt, who was Denzel's father. Now at this point, everything in April's life was going well for her. Everything except her marriage. For years, April and Donovan had had one reoccurring problem. and it had to do with their finances. Now, Donovan was a cook, but he had a hard time holding down a job.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Right. No. So they let you they kind of gave you the two options and they said, which one would you rather do? And that was.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Hello, everyone. Today's episode is an update episode. And sadly, it's not the kind of update we wanna give you. Now, if you haven't listened to our episodes about the murder of April Holt, which were episodes 177 through 179, You have to go back now and give those a listen or you will be very confused here.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
It is insane. And we posted about it just, like, a little snippet on our Instagram. Just, like, the results and everyone, like, hundreds of comments of people saying, like, I am so shocked. But at the same time, I'm not because of how they handled it from the very beginning. I was so... I think it's their way of, like...
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And in July of 2023, April Holt got a call from her apartment complex, letting her know that she was being evicted because their rent wasn't paid. In that moment, April found out that Donovan had lied to her. He had told her that he had covered his portion of the rent and that it was taken care of when... It wasn't. And it was at this very moment where April had had enough.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
that's i was a murderer yes people get like drugged like weed charges you could have pot and you get more yes it is insane it's insane i cannot believe it so he will be spending two years in prison well he only has 18 more months oh yeah because it's with time served right So 18 months. And then he's going to be moving to, I had never even heard of what that other community corrections.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
That is insane. That is, there's no possible way that he could ever get custody of Denzel with the sentence he's under. Okay.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Oh, I know. And with how things have gone, he probably could have. Probably would have.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
She told Donovan that she wanted a divorce. Now they were still living together at the time, but April was done with him. She told all of her friends and family that she was moving on for good. She had even reconnected with an old boyfriend of hers. But tragedy was right around the corner, in more ways than one.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah, that's something that Colin really wants to talk about, too. Like in his the documentary that he's going to be working on soon. He like the way that the whole entire case was handled from beginning to end.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Yeah.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Tragically, in the days before April's death, she had met up with this man in Tennessee for a work obligation. And while there, he sexually assaulted her. Following the assault, she wrote in her journal, quote, I feel so ashamed, dirty, hurt. I'm physically hurting." April was clearly in a tough spot in her life.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Yeah.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
No, exactly. Also, you wouldn't even let anyone see that video because you were trying to protect the outcome of this case. Like when we covered the story months ago, like I was like, can I hear Donovan in that face? I can't, which totally, but I've never released it up until now.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Right.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Yeah.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
After he lied about it to your faces for months. Twice. Twice.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And, like, not only did Denzel have to be around it, but then the mental games that Donovan was playing with him being like, you're talking to people. Yeah. It's your fault. He told him it was his fault. It's your fault we had to move.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
She was divorcing her husband and she had just been sexually assaulted, but the worst was yet to come. On July 28th, 2023, Donovan Holt told his seven-year-old son Denzel to go check on his mom, who was in the bathroom of their apartment. And when Denzel walked into the bathroom, he found his mother unconscious in the shower with a bag taped over her head.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Insane. And then the police are like, that's not. Not our problem.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Gosh. Well, that's again, I'm Colin. He gets way more views on his stuff than the podcast even does. We just appreciate you guys.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
We appreciate you, Jeremiah. We're so excited to share the story with even more people, especially now that we have more, it's more of a conclusion for lack of, you know, I think that, Oh, sorry. I think that, yeah, I just – Colin has so many people on his YouTube that will be just as outraged as we are and our listeners were.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And I think now that we have the conclusion and it's so incredibly disappointing, it's like we are going to put these people on blast and –
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
good so that's actually a positive that's such great news especially because i think like the the medical examiner part of april's story is such another just huge fail in the system like how did you not see what happened to her the bruises it's because the detective went in there and put it in their head ahead of time exactly and then with all the false things with throughout the report of like websites things like that i'm like
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And I can't believe that's not protocol already. Like that's crazy.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
From there, 911 was called and April was rushed to the hospital where she sadly succumbed to her injuries. And for the detectives in this case, their job was easy. After briefly speaking with Donovan, he told them about how April had just been sexually assaulted. He also lied and said that she had been drinking and doing a lot of drugs and that she killed herself that day.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
your impact statement, correct? Or no, you just didn't?
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And surprisingly, they took his word for it. Investigators didn't even step foot in April's apartment until hours after she was brought to the hospital. To them, this was an open and shut case. Without hardly investigating, the lead detective even went into the medical examiner and told her that this was a suicide. And without a proper investigation, That's exactly what they ruled April's death.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
They said that she had died by suicide by taping that plastic bag around her head. But from the very beginning, April's mother, Jamie, knew that that wasn't the case. She knew that her daughter had been murdered. However, despite her efforts, no one believed her. For months and months, Jamie pleaded with investigators to take another look at the case.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
What about, so the grief center, that's, that was, it didn't end up working out. It was just costing us more and more money.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
I love that. And I think that that's, you can have a wider reach with that. We're doing it. We're doing the whole United States. That's beautiful. I think that is so good. And I, and you know, a door closing like that is just, it means that another one's going to open for you and it wasn't meant, it wasn't meant to be. So this is the final episode of our April Holt series.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And like we mentioned, it's not the outcome that any of us wanted, but it's also the outcome that we all expected. After all, you can't really convict someone of murder when the police department in charge of the investigation didn't do a proper investigation. In our opinion, Donovan Holt got incredibly lucky. If April's case would have had a more competent department handling things,
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And she was especially worried because April's son Denzel was still in the custody of his father, the very man that she knew murdered her daughter. But again, no one was listening. So finally, Jamie decided to take matters into her own hands. One day, she FaceTimed Donovan and she had a secret camera that was recording their entire conversation.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
we are confident that this outcome would have been different but you can't turn back time so all we can hope going forward is that april's case can make a difference in future cases that the police department will realize their mistakes and they'll do better next time so that no other family has to go through what april's family went through and that next time maybe justice will actually be served
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And surprisingly, it's on that FaceTime where Donovan admitted to strangling April. Finally, Jamie had the evidence she needed. And after handing that video over to the police, Donovan was finally arrested. a whole year after April's death. Now, Jamie was happy that he was finally behind bars and that Denzel was now in her custody, but it wasn't all good news.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
But in them, we worked with April Holt's mother, Jamie Dickerson, to tell you the story about how a mother of two was strangled to death by her estranged husband, in 2023. The man in question is Donovan Holt, and he admitted to killing April that day. He also admitted to staging her death to make it look like a suicide.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
You see, when Donovan sat down with investigators a year after April's death, he admitted that he had lied to them. April hadn't died by suicide, he said. He had strangled her, but he said that it was an accident. This time, Donovan claimed that they were having sex and getting a little rough. He said he started choking her and at some point he looked down and April was unconscious.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Donovan said that from there, he completely staged her suicide. He put her in the shower, grabbed a plastic bag and some tape, and then wrapped the bag around her head. From there, he went out into the kitchen and he made his seven-year-old son Denzel some lunch. After eating that lunch, he then told his son, hey, go check on your mom. And Denzel did what he was told.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Donovan Holt not only strangled April to death and staged her suicide, but he made his own son find her body. Now, once again, when he told the police this story about choking her during sex, they believed him. And that's when they charged him with reckless homicide. But if you listen to our coverage of the episode, you'd know that we don't believe this was an accident at all.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And neither does anyone who knew and loved April. According to all of April's friends, she was done with Donovan. They were estranged. She had moved on. Her loved ones all said that April wouldn't have been having sex with him that day. And to prove that even further, April had actually written in her journal that she and Donovan were not having sex anymore.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Another reason we believe that April was not killed during sex with Donovan has to do with the sexual assault she experienced before her death. Being sexually assaulted is an incredibly traumatic situation for anyone, and April made that very apparent in her journal entries.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
For most people, they don't even want to be touched afterward, let alone have violent, choking sex, especially when that person is their estranged husband. But despite all of this, Investigators believed Donovan's story, and they charged him with reckless homicide. Or maybe they didn't believe him. Maybe, because of their lousy investigation, that was the best they could do.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
In the last episode about this case, we left you with the news of Donovan's arrest. And for months, we have been patiently waiting for his sentencing, which just took place on February 18th, 2025. But unfortunately, his sentence was anything but justice. So in this episode, we are going to tell you about Donovan's slap on the wrist sentence.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
People get longer sentences for drug charges, and this guy took someone's life, whether it was an accident or not. We are incredibly disheartened by this sentencing, and we decided to set up an interview with April's mom, Jamie, and her husband, Jeremiah, to hear their thoughts on everything.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
But before we play that, we are going to play the never-before-heard footage of that FaceTime call where Jamie recorded Donovan's confession, the one that ultimately got him arrested. Now, last year when we were working on our coverage of this case, I had asked Jamie if we could use it in the episode. But because Donovan's trial was still pending,
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Jamie wasn't allowed to share it with anyone, but now that it's over, she wanted to give it to us. She was so overwhelmed by all of the support that our listeners gave her when we released these episodes. You were all so kind and supportive, and we truly do have the best listeners in the world, so she wanted you guys to hear it first.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Now, in it, you're going to hear Donovan talking about his marriage with April, and he doesn't paint her in the best light. But I want you guys to take everything he says with a grain of salt. After all, this is the same guy who staged an entire suicide and lied to the police's faces for an entire year.
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EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
So, he's proven himself to be a liar, someone who will say anything to keep himself out of trouble. We don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth, but... Without further ado, here is Donovan Holt's confession.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
We also sat down with Jamie and her husband Jeremiah to hear their thoughts on everything. And lastly, we are going to play for you the never before heard confession that Jamie herself got from her daughter's killer. So this is the update on the murder of April Holt. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
I know.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He felt a longing in his heart to serve his country again, especially when he learned that psychiatric services were needed in the Middle East. So 56-year-old Captain John Gaffney made the heroic decision to reenlist. He had actually just arrived at Fort Hood a few days prior so he could prepare for deployment to Iraq, but he never knew that he would die before he ever even got there.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Before the shooting started, Specialist Mick Ingenel had been at the SRP Center with his friend, Specialist Jonathan Sims. The two took a seat in the waiting room and began chatting while they waited for their names to be called. Mick was just days away from getting married, and he was just a few months away from getting deployed to Iraq. Sadly, he wasn't even supposed to be there that morning.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He was actually supposed to be at the shooting range with his platoon, but as luck would have it, Their guns had been improperly assembled, so their commander told them to just finish up their deployment paperwork instead. So Mick and his friend Jonathan Sims did just that. But before they knew it, bullets were being fired all around them. Their training taught them to drop to the ground.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nidal Hasan did not have the army's best interest at heart. By day, he was counseling soldiers with PTSD, but by night, he began planning attack against the very soldiers he vowed to help. So this is the story of the Fort Hood Massacre. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And as they did, they began looking for a way out. However, Mick would later recall that there was no way out, saying, quote, you've heard of shooting fish in a barrel. He had both exits covered. While lying on the ground, Mick saw a bright flash. He didn't realize it at the time, but a bullet had entered his back. Another one was shot into his neck, severing an artery.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
That bullet then ricocheted all the way down into his shoulder. Soon enough, blood began spraying from his neck wound. When he looked over, his friend, Specialist Jonathan Sims, had been shot as well. Jonathan would later say that he felt an immense amount of pressure in his back, but his friend Mick was profusely bleeding from his neck, so he helped put pressure on his wound.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
They did this, bullets were still flying all around. So it's here where Jonathan grabs a nearby table and he pulls it over them. Surprisingly, seconds later, the gunman actually walks over to them and stands on top of the table, I guess to get a better view of who he was shooting. Jonathan and Mick would later say that they could feel the weight of the gunman standing on top of them.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And all they could do in that moment was lay still. While under the table, Jonathan looked out and saw a female soldier he had just spoken to. It was 21-year-old Francesca Vallez. Francesca had actually taken a seat next to Mick and Jonathan at the SRP Center. And during their brief conversation, She told them that she was pregnant.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Sadly, when the shots rang out that afternoon, Francesca had been shot. And while bleeding out on the ground, curled up in a fetal position, Jonathan and Mick heard her scream out, my baby. "'My baby.'" Eventually, Jonathan and Mick would make it out alive, but not Francesca.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Horrifically, upon hearing her screams, the gunman casually walked over to her as she begged for her life and the life of her unborn child, but he had no remorse. The shooter then aimed his weapon at her and fired multiple times into Francesca's body. One of the last things that Jonathan and Mick saw before running to safety was Francesca's eyes rolling into the back of her head.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Around the SRP center, soldiers were under desks. Others were tucked in the small alcoves. When they were able to find a spot where the gunmen couldn't see them, many ripped up their clothing and began making tourniquets for the wounded. Some were performing CPR. And during it all, the gunmen continued shooting people around the room. But interestingly, he was only shooting at soldiers.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In the SRP center, there were a mix of soldiers and regular civilians, but he was only killing people in uniform. When the shots rang out that day, a group of five civilians took cover under a nearby table. And eventually, they heard the sounds of gunfire getting closer. They all began praying for their lives.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
to their horror they soon saw the gunmen walking towards them their bodies tensed up preparing themselves for what was to come the next thing they knew they saw the shooter crouch down and look right at them the laser of his gun swept across their faces But surprisingly, instead of killing them, he stood up and walked away. You see, for the gunman, this attack was personal.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The message he was trying to get across was that US soldiers were the enemy, so he spared the civilians lives. Well, most of them. The one civilian to die in the Fort Hood massacre was 62-year-old Dr. Michael Cahill. When the shots rang out that day, he decided he was going to try and take down the gunman.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
His daughter would later say that her dad always talked to her about what to do in a mass shooting. With the prevalence of them these days, he wanted to make sure she was prepared. But something he mentioned to her was that if he were to ever be in one, he would charge at the shooter. And on this day, that's exactly what he would do.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
After grabbing a folding chair as a shield, Dr. Michael Cahill held it in front of his chest and charged at him. He knew that he might lose his life in the process, but that was a risk he was willing to take. But sadly, upon seeing him coming, the gunman pointed his gun towards him and shot him down.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
There were many heroes inside the SRP Center that day. Army Reserve Specialist Logan Burnett was another soldier who charged at the gunman. And like the others, he was quickly shot. Luckily for him, however, he would survive. After getting shot in the hip, Logan crawled to a nearby cubicle as the gunman shot others in the room. One of these people was Sergeant Alonzo Lunsford.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Horrifically, when the shooting started, he jumped up to run to safety, but soon enough, he found himself face to face with the shooter. And to his surprise, he knew exactly who the gunman was. In fact, Alonzo had actually gotten into an argument with Nadal Hassan about a month prior about a patient who needed to go to the psych ward.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
At that moment, Alonzo Lunsford knew that he was about to die and the gunman had every intention of killing him. He even pointed his gun directly at Alonzo's head and pulled the trigger. He would later say, quote, the red laser went right across my line of sight. I blinked. He discharged the weapon. The first round went in above my left eye, so the impact caused me to spin around. End quote.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Once Alonzo fell to the ground, the shooter fired more rounds into his chest, back, and abdomen. And it's here where he plays dead on the ground. But Alonzo could still hear everything going on around him. He would later say, quote, he was walking and shooting at the same time. It wasn't a rapid fire that he was doing. It was a methodical slow fire because he was counting his rounds.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
I could hear the shell casings hitting the floor. Now surprisingly, after being shot seven times, Alonso would make it out alive. However, the same couldn't be said for 52-year-old Major Labardo Caraveo. As the gunman indiscriminately shot at soldiers, Major Caraveo would get hit. and sadly, he would lose his life. Originally born in Juarez, Mexico, Labardo came from an impoverished family.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He was the youngest of seven children. During his teenage years, his family moved to El Paso in search of a better life. However, it wasn't an easy transition. His family was poor and they didn't speak English, so Labardo had to work hard to fit in. One of his childhood friends named Felix would later say that there was a moment in Labardo's younger years that really shaped him.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He was in the sixth grade. He had just moved to America and one of his teachers called on him to answer a question. However, Labardo couldn't understand what the teacher was saying.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
and all of the kids in class started laughing at him and calling him stupid libardo was clearly humiliated but he used this experience as fuel to work hard and succeed felix said quote more than anything he had this hunger to learn and he was never satisfied the obstacles for him became more like challenges end quote after high school libardo would go off to college
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He worked tirelessly to get scholarships, and with the help of financial aid and work-study programs, he was able to pay for his school, but he barely scraped by.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
His friend Felix later recalled that the two put all of the extra change they had together just so they could afford to buy some french fries, and they sat together for hours, eating one single fry at a time, chatting about the life they had ahead of them. Luckily, Labardo's hard work would pay off. He would earn his bachelor's degree at the University of Texas at El Paso.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And then from there, he would go on to get his master's degree in psychology at Texas Tech and a PhD in psychology from the University of Arizona. After a schooling, Labardo got a job as a psychologist and the Federal Bureau of Prisons, and he was very good at his job. He would later earn the Norman A. Carlson Award due to his excellence in working with mentally ill inmates.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
A psychiatrist he once worked with said, quote, I can just see him, his demeanor with the really distressed inmates who had very limited coping skills. He could connect with them and help make their world a little better. Now Labardo worked in this field for nearly 10 years before he decided to join the Army Reserve in 2000.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Thank you.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But one thing to know about him is that he was always pushing himself to learn. During his time at the Army Reserve, he also started a clinical psychopharmacology program at New Mexico State University. The college was nearly five hours away from where he lived. But rain or shine, he showed up to class every time.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The program's director would later say that one day, Labardo pulled into the parking lot and his car was completely falling apart. Apparently, he had gotten into an accident and his car was barely even drivable, but He made it to class anyways. Several students even suggested that he go to the hospital because he looked pretty banged up, but he refused.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And later that night, the director received an email from him saying that he had fractured his hip. and the accident. And that was the kind of person Labardo was. No matter what was going on in his life, he always showed up and gave it his all. Now, during his time in the Army Reserve, Labardo continued to have a lasting impact on the people around him.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
One soldier would later say, quote, if you were having a bad day, Major Caraveo would come up to you and you weren't going to have a bad day anymore, end quote. Then in 2009, he decided to join the Combat Operational Stress Control Detachment. His unit was set to leave for Afghanistan that December, and while there, he would work with soldiers who were dealing with the mental stress of the war.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Labardo had just arrived at Fort Hood the day before to finish up the paperwork for his deployment. Following his death, his family said that they will remember him as a charismatic, determined, and successful man who helped and inspired those around him. His fellow soldiers said that his death, quote, is a loss of magnitude that I can't even quantify, end quote.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, survivors Dana Ferguson and Sergeant Tuan Nguyen were shot close by one another towards the back near the cubicles. And horrifically, as they hid from the shooter, they could hear the screams of a fellow soldier. It was 55-year-old Lieutenant Colonel Juanita Warman. At that moment, Juanita yelled out that she had been shot. She needed help.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But with the gunman still walking around killing people, no one could help her. And eventually, Juanita knew that she wasn't going to make it out alive. Sadly, As she lay there bleeding out, she yelled, quote, Please tell my family I love them. Now, Juanita would actually make it out of the center alive, but later that day, she would succumb to her injuries.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Lieutenant Colonel Juanita Warman came from a military family, so she always knew she wanted to follow in her father's footsteps. And she would. Juanita served in the army for 25 years. She was a psychiatric nurse practitioner and she helped create a PTSD program for veterans that helped them transition into everyday life, which is so incredible.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And Juanita helped with all veterans, but her specialty was with females. Through her 25 years of work, She believed that female veterans PTSD was different from males. The Army's website says that Juanita was, quote, a warrior with a nurse's heart. Filled with compassion for her fellow service members, she went where the action was to care for them in battle and beyond.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Witnesses in the SRP Center said that when the shots rang out that day, Juanita pushed another soldier to the ground. That soldier would ultimately survive, but tragically, Juanita wouldn't. Like many others, Juanita was just days away from being deployed to Iraq. Colonel Sam Wagner would later say, quote, Juanita Warman was prepared to sacrifice her life for her country.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
She was not expecting to get killed in Fort Hood, end quote. When the word spread that Juanita had sacrificed her life for another soldier, her family wasn't surprised. After all, that was exactly the kind of person she was. She was thoughtful, selfless, and she loved to help others.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
When the shooting started, Frederick watched some of his friends die right in front of him. And that's when his training kicked in. Based on witness accounts, Frederick locked eyes with the gunman. In return, the shooter aimed his gun right at him. But in an act of bravery, Frederick decided to charge at him. At first, he ran in a zigzag pattern to avoid getting shot.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Then once he got closer, he just started running at full speed. Sadly, the gunman then emptied his magazine into Frederick's body, killing him instantly. He would later be found riddled with 12 bullets.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Given that the United States was in the middle of war with Iraq, a number of these soldiers were just days away from deployment. And as they sat waiting for their name to be called, many were nervous. Of course, this is what they signed up to do, but what would it be like in the Middle East? Would they have to witness terror and bloodshed? Would they lose fellow soldiers?
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Back inside the SRP center, the gunman had only been shooting for about eight minutes. Eight minutes doesn't seem like a very long time, but for the people inside, it felt like an eternity. One witness said, quote, I was just watching him shoot. And at this time, the room was filled with gun smoke. and I see the weapon that he had.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He had a green light and a red laser, and it's going through the haze, and the gunfire just continued to go off. He just kind of walked back and forth. He was just shooting for what felt like an eternity." And with screams and chaos filling the room, the shooter wasn't finished with his rampage. Witnesses said that as they hid in their hiding spots, they could hear him reloading his gun.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
time and time again. All the while, they couldn't help but wonder when help would finally arrive. But sadly, more people were about to be shot. Private First Class Najee Hall said that she made eye contact with the shooter before seeing that laser and getting shot, which eerily is something that many people recalled from that day.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The gunman made eye contact with almost everyone before shooting them. Private First Class Hall said that it was chilling. He looked her in the eyes shot her twice, and then calmly turned away from her. From there, she watched as his eyes grazed the room, looking for another victim. Eventually, he would find one. Private First Class Aaron Nemelka had been on the ground hiding,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
when the shooter walked up and shot him three times. The most serious of his injuries was the shot that landed in between his chest and Adam's apple. Nearby, Specialist Alan Carroll said that once the gunman walked away, he quickly rushed to Nomelka's side. The two were good friends. Aaron was lying on his back with blood pouring out of his wounds.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And instinctively, Alan Carroll rolled him over onto his stomach so they could crawl to safety. But horrifically, as he did this, the gunman turned back in their direction. and quickly fired off more shots. This time, Aaron Carroll had been hit in his back and leg, but he was still able to move.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Allen would later say that in that moment, he looked up and saw a clear path to an exit, but then he remembered his training that he should never leave a soldier behind. He would later say, quote, I've been told to never leave a fallen comrade. That's what was going through my mind. I needed to get out, but I needed to get him out with me."
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Would they come back with PTSD? Or would they even come back at all? These are very real thoughts that went through the soldier's mind at the time. After all, many that came back from Iraq recounted horror stories of what they went through. But even with the potential dangers ahead of them, the hundreds of soldiers within this processing center were ready to fight for our country.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
However, they couldn't get out just then, so instead, Allen laid there with Aaron Namalka and they played dead. Later on, when help finally arrived, Allen would be taken to the hospital where he would survive his injuries. But the same couldn't be said about his friend, Private First Class Aaron Namalka.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
First Lieutenant Brandy Nicole Mason had been sitting in the waiting room when the shooting first started. When she heard the gunman scream, she thought it was a joke, but then she heard someone yell out, get down. Brandy said she immediately dropped to the floor, but when she did, she felt a wetness all over her back.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
She then went to grab her cell phone from her back pocket, but when she pulled it in front of her, she saw that it was completely covered in blood. That's when she realized she had been shot. Thinking quickly, Brandy was able to crawl to a nearby table. However, it wasn't big enough to conceal her whole body. But from there, she said, quote, I peeked my head out.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And when I peeked out, he had the gun pointed at my head. And I hurried up and I put my head back in. My hip was still out and I felt burning. I couldn't straighten my leg. There was pain there. I laid there. A soldier, he was helping me." Now, luckily, Brandy would survive, but the shooting would go on for several more minutes.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The survivors who were still in the building had learned from experience not to get up and run because if they did, they would quickly be shot in the back. So all they could do was wait. Staff Sergeant Helen Kennedy had been administering a vaccine to a soldier when the shooting started.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Upon hearing the gunshots, she quickly grabbed their hand and they made a run for it towards the back of the building, but soon enough, shots started flying in their direction. She and the soldier quickly dropped to their hands and knees and began crawling. But seconds later, the body of a soldier fell right on top of her. Helen started crying.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
She attempted to help them, but everyone behind her pulled her underneath a nearby table. Eventually, when the coast was clear, Helen emerged from the table to help the wounded. One in particular was 29-year-old Staff Sergeant Amy Kruger, who was barely clinging on to life. Helen would later say, quote, I was talking to her. She was still breathing. There was blood everywhere.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
One of the most honorable things someone can do. However, unbeknownst to them, some would never even make it to deployment. because the real danger was coming right towards them within their own military base. And sadly, this person was a wolf in sheep's clothing. He was one of their own.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
I couldn't tell what was hers. I got her undressed. At the same time, she started seizing and vomiting. I tried to get the vomit out of her mouth, trying to do chest compressions, but I couldn't get her airway cleared. I said, I need suction, I need suction, but she died. Everyone kept screaming, what can I do, what can I do? I said, I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do, end quote.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Sergeant First Class Maria Guerrera was in her office that afternoon when the gunman opened fire. Right after, she peeked her head out of her office door. She would later say, quote, I started hearing a lot of screams. When I opened the door, it was chaos. Soldiers and civilians were running and screaming, and all I could hear was rapid fire. He was shooting into the crowd at station 13.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
All I could see was a side profile and I was mainly looking at what he was shooting. I was watching the soldiers being shot. I saw an attachment that was added to the gun because it was much thicker than a nine millimeter. I was thinking whether I should rush him. I was too far. I see him reload three times before he started walking my way, and I had to retreat into my office.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He reloaded so quickly, so efficiently. There were still soldiers trying to run out the back door, and that's when he started to move towards the back door. It was quiet. I listened for the shots. It sounded as if he was circling the building. The smoke was so thick all you could do was smell the gunfire, the sulfur. All I saw was soldiers and bodies all over the floor. No one was moving.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
I ran out to where the first body was. I yelled out, Is everybody okay? It was then like a light switch turned on. You could hear, Help me, help me. I've been shot. End quote. Registered nurse Kimberly Huseman was in her office answering emails when the shots rang out. She heard screaming and popping sounds as a sergeant rushed through her door and slammed it behind him.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And with a terrified look on his face, he told Kimberly to call 911. So she did. When the dispatcher answered, Kimberly screamed, quote, we're inside the building. Oh my God, there's about 15 down. Probably more than that. Oh my God. "'I don't know who he is. "'He's wearing ACUs.'" The dispatcher assured her that help was on the way.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
That afternoon, the Bell County Communications Center would be bombarded with so many phone calls, they couldn't even handle the influx of calls. Eventually, when people started dialing 911, they were met with a busy signal. And before help could arrive, more people would lose their lives, including 51-year-old Captain Russell Gilbert Seeger,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Another person in the back offices was Nurse Shamaka Hairston. She had been giving a soldier a vaccination when she heard what sounded like firecrackers in the main room. She would later say, quote, "'I tried to peer over the partition, but it was too high, and I couldn't see anything. I saw a lot of smoke and the smell.'" It smelled like ammunition.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
It smelled like you were in a shooting range, end quote. But at that moment, she knew that this was a mass shooting. So immediately, Shamaka grabbed her phone and dialed 911. When the dispatcher answered, she quickly told them that someone was shooting people at Fort Hood Soldier Readiness Processing Center.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Horrifically, in the back of the phone call, the dispatcher could hear screaming, hysterical sobs, and loud popping noises. Shimaka cried into the phone as the dispatcher asked her questions. She stated, quote, I don't know. A soldier just started shooting. We don't know who he is. Some guy with a weapon just started randomly shooting, end quote.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, by this point, she was hiding under a desk with a few other nurses and three soldiers, 32-year-old Justin DeCrow, 22-year-old J.D. Hunt, and 22-year-old Michael Pearson. And then suddenly, the five of them all heard the sound of slow and deliberate footsteps coming in their direction.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Eerily, they knew the gunman was coming because a spent shell casing had become stuck in the tread of his shoe. One of the nurses hiding under the desk, Theodore Kakoulis, said that they could hear the clink of the shell casing getting closer. But at that moment, The three soldiers hiding with them decided to confront the gunmen.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Theodore would later say, quote, all three looked directly at the shooter. They were looking at death and they knew it. These kids just stood their ground. They didn't even flinch. They weren't afraid of him. But sadly, like all the others before them, the gunman quickly aimed his gun and released a wave of bullets in their direction.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Sergeant First Class Engar Campbell would later say that when the gunfire stopped, she went to help one of the soldiers who was still alive. It was 32-year-old Justin DeCrow. Engar did her best to try and revive him, but sadly, he died in her arms.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Alongside Justin DeCrow, 22-year-old Private First Class Michael Pearson also lost his life. Michael grew up in Bolingbrook, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago. According to Find a Grave, quote, as a child, he was full of laughter and curiosity. At an early age, his father, Jeffrey, started teaching Michael how to play guitar.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Michael was heavily immersed into his art and music growing up, and he also participated in martial arts as a hobby since he was a child. Michael began teaching guitar to many of his friends. He was an inspirational role model and a mentor to his many nieces and nephews. Michael had a zest for life and found a friend in everyone he met, a true patriot who loved people, people loved him."
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In the years before 2009, Michael was working at a furniture company, unhappy with his job. His mother, Cheryl, would later tell the Wall Street Journal, quote, He felt he was in a rut. He wanted to travel, see the world. He also wanted an opportunity to serve the country. So that's when he decided to enlist. Michael was very excited about his journey in the military.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
His mom said that she hadn't seen her son in a year because he had been so focused on his training. But just a few weeks before the shooting, he had called her and started making arrangements to come home for Christmas. Their whole family was so excited to reunite. Little did they know that reunion would never come.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
When Nidal Hasan walked into the building that day, he didn't immediately make his presence known. In fact, with everything going on, no one really noticed him at all. Instead of walking up to the front desk to check in, Nidal took a seat in a folding chair near the back of the room. With guns and ammunition tucked within his clothing, Nidal used this opportunity to scan the room.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
At the time of the shooting, he had been in the army for three and a half years, including a deployment to Iraq. And just two months before his passing, Jason would get married to a woman named Jenna. She was living in Oklahoma City, finishing up a class, but she was so excited to move to Fort Hood and start their life together.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Jason's sister would later say that at one point, she was talking to him about the love of a parent and how she would die to protect her child. She continued, quote, and he told me that he would die for my children in a second too, children that aren't even his. He went on to say that he would die for a complete stranger and would jump in front of a bullet for any of his soldiers, end quote.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And in the end, that's exactly what Jason would do. To protect the nurses that were hiding under the nearby desk, Jason Hunt, Justin DeCrow, and Michael Pearson all sacrificed their lives for those around them.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
By this point, it's only been about 10 minutes since the gunman started shooting inside the SRP Center. And upon hearing the announcement, first responders started making their way to the scene. The first police officers to arrive were Sergeant Kimberly Munley and Mark Todd. but Kimberly would get there first.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, as for the gunman, after shooting nearly everyone inside the SRP Center, he decided to walk near the outside area to see if he could find any more victims. It was reported that he even tried to enter the building next door, but... Fortunately, it was locked. But by this point, as he was outside in the open, he quickly encountered Sergeant Kimberly Munley, who had just arrived at the scene.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Upon seeing him, Kimberly grabbed her 9mm pistol, and over the next few seconds, the two exchanged gunfire. Bullets were flying all around her. One bullet even hit a nearby rain gutter, and the shrapnel injured her hand. Before she knew it, Kimberly felt two sharp pains in her leg. A bullet had hit her directly in the femur and another one hit her knee.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
At this point, Officer Mark Todd finally arrived on scene and as he turned the corner, he saw the shooter walking towards Sergeant Kimberly Munley who was on the ground, bleeding profusely from her gunshot wounds. Mark quickly yelled out to the shooter in an attempt to distract him from Kimberly, and luckily it worked. After Mark yelled, the gunman pivoted.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
and I can assume he was looking for any threats. Now, weapons were actually prohibited from this processing center, which is exactly why he chose this location, but he wanted to make sure. As he scanned the crowd, he looked at several faces, some of whom were probably familiar. After all, he was a psychiatrist on the base.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He then pointed his gun at Mark and fired off several shots. More gunfire ensued. But then suddenly, witnesses watched as the gunman quickly dropped to the ground. He had been shot. Finally, after 10 minutes of terror and bloodshed, the Fort Hood mass shooting had come to an end.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But now that the threat was finally eliminated, first responders could focus on helping the wounded. And there were a lot. Outside of the SRP center, Staff Sergeant Zachary Phillip, a combat medic, had just pulled up to the scene where he found Sergeant Kimberly Munley bleeding from her leg wound. He quickly pulled off his belt and made a tourniquet.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
That day, Zachary would help treat 20 injured victims. Sergeant Andrew Hagerman was also there helping the wounded. He would later say, quote, you don't ever expect to see this when you're at home or anything like that. But like I said before, you swear to protect your country against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. So you're trained for either fight, end quote.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, like we mentioned, there were several wounded soldiers outside of the SRP center, soldiers who were lucky enough to make it out during the shooting. So everyone at the scene, fellow soldiers and all, began helping. One soldier picked up four different men, throwing them all into the back of his pickup, and he drove them to the hospital. Many other soldiers began following suit.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
driving the wounded two miles away to the Carl R. Darnall Medical Center. But the amount of wounded soldiers outside of the building was nothing in comparison to the amount of soldiers inside. They couldn't believe their eyes. There were bodies everywhere and blood was completely covering the floors.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nurse Theodore Koukoulis would later say, quote, the amount of blood in the area, it was slippery from the blood. It was the most I have ever seen before. I kept slipping. I almost expended as much energy slipping across the floor as I did helping the wounded soldiers." And sadly, as the first responders swept the room, they were looking for signs of life.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
For most of the bodies they came across, they were already gone. They knew that there was nothing they could do for them, so... They had to get up and move on to the next person. And there's this video I found, I think it's body cam footage, but it shows the immediate aftermath of the SRP center that day. As the officer walks around the room, there is blood everywhere.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And there are soldiers lying all over the ground receiving aid. Every time the officer turns a corner, you see a group of people surrounding a soldier who isn't moving. Several times throughout the video, you see the flash of a head bobbing up and down as first responders are performing CPR all around the room.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Some people in the room might have even shared their deepest, darkest secrets with him, but that didn't matter. Nidal Hasan was on a mission, and that mission was to indiscriminately kill as many soldiers as he could inside that room, all in the name of his religion. After about five minutes of sitting in that chair, he finally stood up and made his way towards the front desk.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
A woman named Jeanette Juroff would later say of the scene, quote, "'Every single medic was just going on like it was a movie, like it was scripted. I need a shirt. I need a belt. Elevate his head. Everybody was helping everybody.'" In the video I mentioned, you can also see so many of those folding chairs that were in the waiting room.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Chairs that had been knocked over as many people tried to run to safety. Some of those chairs were also thrown at the gunman in an attempt to stop him. Also covering the ground you see debris, shoes, paper, medical kits, and spent shell casings. all remnants of the chaos that ensued that day.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But soon enough, all 33 of the wounded had been removed from the building and brought to a nearby hospital. But everyone who was left in the room had succumbed to their injuries. Inside of the SRP center were the bodies of 11 people. The total death count was 13, but two would later die in the hospital, all of whom lost their lives in an act of terrorism.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
By this point, the media had caught wind of the mass shooting at Fort Hood, and there was a lot of false reporting. Some news stations reported that there had been multiple shooters. Others were reporting that the gunmen had been killed. CNN even released the phone number of the hospital's command center, and soon enough, their phone system was bombarded with an influx of calls, 1,301 hour.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In the meantime, given that this was a terrorist attack,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
law enforcement had to make sure there were no other threats so once the gunman was officially identified federal agents went to work trying to figure out exactly who nadal hassan was and why did he attack the fort hood military base while they started looking into the shooter's background the killeen police department the fbi texas rangers swat teams
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
the Army's Criminal Investigation Division, and the Bell County Sheriff's Department all descended on the SRP Center crime scene and the gunman's apartment in town to make sure there were no other threats.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Behind it was an employee named Latoya Williams. He then tells her,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
As the world was learning of this tragedy, many people who had family members at Fort Hood anxiously held their breaths while waiting to hear the fate of their loved one. Throughout that day, the moderately wounded were able to call their families and ease their worries. But the families of the deceased and the severely wounded didn't get that privilege. All they could do was sit and wait.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And because this is a military base, many of the victims were not local. Their families were all over the United States. And slowly but surely, 13 of these families would get that dreaded knock on their front door. The knock letting them know that their loved one wouldn't be coming home. Surprisingly, Nidal Hassan's family was anxiously waiting for that knock as well.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
When they first heard the news about the mass shooting at Fort Hood, they were beside themselves with worry. They prayed that Nidal's life was spared and that the gunman didn't kill him. It never even crossed their minds that the gunman was Nidal. After radio silence for several hours, they were convinced he was a victim.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But soon enough, they turned on the news and his face flashed across their screen. And in that moment, their entire world was shattered. Not because of their own loss, but because of the lives that Nadal had taken.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Latoya Williams was caught off guard, as anyone would be in this situation. As she processed what the man in front of her was saying, she noticed the name Hassan embroidered on his army fatigues. There was also a mark that indicated that he was a major, which meant he was pretty high up in the ranks, someone that could technically give her orders.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In last week's episode, we talked about the life of Nadal Hassan, a man who was born and raised in Arlington, Virginia. Nadal had a pretty normal upbringing. His parents, who were Palestinian immigrants, moved to the US in the 1960s and opened up several businesses. They worked hard to live out the American dream, and they had a lot of respect for our country.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The morning after the shooting, President Barack Obama released the following message.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
So from here, Latoya gets up out of her office chair, and she makes her way over to Major Parrish's office. Once she left, Nidal Hasan stepped behind the desk, bowed his head in prayer, and screamed out, Allahu Akbar. The soldiers around the room all lifted their heads to see Major Nadal Hassan holding an FN-57 pistol.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In the days after the shooting, the United States of America was in a state of mourning. Nearly 50 soldiers had been gunned down at their military base, 13 of whom ultimately lost their lives. However, in these times of grief and worry, our nation did come together to honor the heroes of this story, including the two civilian police officers who helped take the gunmen down.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The director of emergency management services at Fort Hood would later say, quote, Both Munley and Todd placed themselves at risk to assist in a tragic incident. Had they not acted the way they did, there would have been more loss of life. People went home to their families that night because of them." Now, as we mentioned, Mark Todd shot the gunman directly in his chest.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And when Nidal Hasan woke up from his coma on November 9th, he realized that he was paralyzed from the chest down and had limited mobility in his left arm, but he refused to speak with investigators. However, they were able to confirm that he had worked alone. And eventually, in the days after the shooting,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And before they even had time to react, a number of bullets were fired in their direction. The sound of gunfire quickly filled the room as everyone began frantically scrambling to safety. But unfortunately, the gunman had positioned himself where he had a full view of the two exits.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nidal Hasan was charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder. But as you can imagine, the public had a lot of questions. Like how did an army psychiatrist tasked with caring for soldiers turn around and massacre them? Were there warning signs? Well, after the shooting, the Department of Defense did an extensive investigation and it was here
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
where they revealed that Nidal Hasan had been corresponding with Anwar al-Awlaki, the Islamic extremist with ties to Al-Qaeda. But even more concerning was the fact that the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force knew about these emails and they clearly didn't take the correct action. Now the FBI would later say that they didn't find the emails concerning because
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
they thought Nidal Hasan's emails to al-Lawki had to do with the research he was doing at the time. Specifically, they said, quote, "'Because the content of the communications was explainable by his research and nothing else derogatory was found, the JTTF concluded that Major Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning,' end quote."
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But keep in mind, in these emails, Nadal openly expressed how much he idolized this man. He even wrote Aulaki asking for advice and he donated a lot of money to him. So how the FBI overlooked that and thought it was about research, we don't know.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
People inside would later say that he sprayed the crowd in a fan-like motion, going back and forth with his gun, killing people as they ran towards the exits.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And that's exactly what everyone was looking forward to, justice. On April 9th, 2010, about five months after the shooting, Nidal Hasan was transferred from the hospital to the Bell County Jail. And if convicted, he was facing the death penalty. So his legal team spent the next few weeks trying to get him to understand the errors in his radical Islamic ideology.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Essentially, they wanted to de-radicalize him. They even brought in a leader from his mosque and a Muslim U.S. Army chaplain to speak with him every single day. And eventually that summer, Nadal finally spoke about the shooting with a reporter in a prison phone call. Here is what he had to say.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Throughout his time in jail, Nadal seemed to have gone back and forth on whether or not he supported his actions that day. On some days he showed zero remorse. Then on other days, it was reported that he fasted for each of the victims. He said that he did this just in case he misinterpreted his mission that day. And if that was the case,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He didn't want to be punished in the afterlife, so he thought fasting would help. Interestingly, Nadal also fired his high profile attorney, John Galligan. He said it was because he wanted to be represented by military lawyers from the Army Trial Defense Service. But on July 20th, 2010, he was arraigned in the courtroom without his defense attorney present.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now in a wheelchair, paralyzed from the chest down, Nadal wheeled himself into the courtroom wearing a camouflage army uniform. He then stood in front of the judge and opted not to enter a plea. And it was here where his trial was set for March 5th, 2012.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nadal's cousin, Nader Hassan, had been a successful criminal defense attorney in Virginia when the shooting happened. But when people realized he was related to the shooter, he quickly lost most of his business. He would later tell the New York Times, "'Our phones went completely quiet, dead. "'It was devastating since we relied on referrals.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
"'I lost dozens of prospective clients "'and it still happens.'" In addition, Nader also lost his volunteer coaching position at a local high school. But in 2010, he decided to do something positive and set up the Nawal Foundation, a nonprofit that was established to help Muslim Americans who might be struggling with internal forces to commit violence in the name of Islam.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Eventually, the foundation caught the attention of a Fort Hood victim's family member. It was Dr. Michael Cahill's daughter, Carrie. She contacted Nader and told him that she liked his message. And later on, the two would travel the country and speak to people about their stories. Carrie Cahill now sits on the foundation's board.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Within those first few seconds of gunfire, chaos erupted within the room. Blood quickly filled the floors. Some people ran, some hid or played dead. And heroically, some service members even began to tend to the wounded. Staff Sergeant Paul Martin said that at some point, he heard the gunman eject his magazine and quickly load up another one.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
When his trial finally came about in August of 2013, Nadal decided to represent himself. From his wheelchair, he spoke to the jury, stating, quote, "'The evidence will clearly show I am the shooter, but the evidence presented during this trial will only show one side. The evidence will also show that I was on the wrong side of America's war on Islam, but then I switched sides.'"
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
and I made mistakes, end quote. Nadal also said that he was, quote, an imperfect Muslim trying to establish the perfect religion of Almighty God as supreme on the land, despite the disbelievers' hatred for it. I apologize for any mistakes I made in this endeavor.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Army prosecutor, Colonel Steve Hendricks, presented an hour-long introduction where he retold the story of what unfolded on the afternoon of November 5th, He stated that in the weeks and months before the shooting, Nadal had prepared himself for the attack, buying weapons, ammunition, and even giving away his personal belongings to his neighbors.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nadal had trained himself and read online material about suicide bombers and jihad. Colonel Hendrick stated, quote, he came to believe he possessed a jihad duty to kill as many soldiers as possible, end quote. Now following open statements, the prosecution brought forward a number of survivors who were shot by Nidal Hasan.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And over the next few days, they all relived their trauma, talking about everything they went through that day, while just feet away from the man who tried to take their life. For many of the witnesses, they didn't want to look him in the eye when asked if the shooter was in the room. Many of these victims still had bullets within their bodies. There were many painful testimonies that day,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
and Nadal showed no signs of remorse or emotion, and thankfully he did not cross-examine any of the witnesses.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
A distinctive clicking noise that everyone in the room knew all too well. Soon enough, red and green laser lights on the semi-automatic pistol swept over the room as the shooter continued to fire in rapid succession. After several minutes, Staff Sergeant Paul Martin knew that if he was going to survive this, he needed to get out of there.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
On August 28th, 2013, Nadal was sentenced to death by lethal injection. In interviews before his trial, Nadal had suggested that death was what he wanted because it would make him look like a martyr for his religion. Colonel Michael Mulligan stated, quote, Do not be fooled. He is not giving his life. We are taking his life. This is not his gift to God. This is his debt to society."
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nadal's death sentence was only one out of a handful of other military men who had been sentenced to die. Included in that list was one of Nadal's inspirations, Hassan Akbar, who attacked his own military camp in Kuwait in 2005. Today, Nidal Hasan still awaits death at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas. He is one of four military members on death row.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
However, it's unknown when Nidal will be scheduled for lethal injection due to the United States government not executing a member of the armed forces since 1961.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In the years after the shooting, many of the survivors have worked hard on trying to move forward, but it's been difficult. Like we mentioned, many of the people shot that day have had lifelong issues from their injuries. Most of the survivors had to give up their dreams of serving their country, but some have since learned to find forgiveness.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Patrick Ziegler, who was shot in the head and had to have part of his brain taken out, has since said, quote, Nadal Hassan thought he was doing the right thing by his religious standards, and he believed that by killing American soldiers, he would save other people.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
So with adrenaline pumping through his body, he got up and ran as fast as he possibly could. But just as he approached the door, he felt another sharp pain in his back, this one even more intense than the first. Paul quickly dropped to the ground, unable to walk. From here, he army crawled on the floor, leaving a crimson red trail behind.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
It was just a very ignorant and misplaced ideology, so it was very simple for me to forgive him for thinking the wrong things and letting himself be pulled into an evil place where he could hurt people like that, end quote. Surprisingly, Patrick and his wife, Jessica have befriended Nadal's family members who have also been greatly affected by this tragedy.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Patrick's wife, Jessica said, quote, what I learned about them is that they're phenomenal people who have a beautiful faith and they're good family members. They love one another. They care about the victims and they've done kind things for the victims, us included, end quote.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But for those affected, no matter how much time has passed, the memories from that day, November 5th, 2009, remain as raw and fresh as the day it happened. Today, we remember the lives of the victims and the wounded for their bravery, service, and their dedication to the United States of America.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Along the way, he would feel two more bullets enter his body, another one in his back and one in his leg. In total, Paul had been shot four times, but somehow he finally made it outside to safety. Luckily, Staff Sergeant Paul Martin would survive his injuries. Following the massacre, he would undergo two surgeries, One where a vein from his leg had to be put in his arm.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He was considered one of the lucky ones, for lack of a better word. But sadly, that wasn't the case for everyone. Private First Class Cam Xiong had arrived at the processing center that afternoon to get his physical. He was set to leave for Iraq in just a few short months, and he wanted to make sure everything was squared away.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
As he waited in the long line, his wife texted him, telling him to come home for lunch and to just get his physical later. But he responded back, quote, No, I'll stay. It's almost my turn. Seconds later, Cam struck up a conversation with another private waiting in line named Lance. Lance would later say that when the shots rang out, both he and Cam dove to the floor.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
So much so, after high school, Nadal decided to join the United States Army while also earning his college degree. But it's also around this time when he started leaning more into his religion of Islam, and he was soon faced with a conflict of interest. In the early 2000s, after the 9-11 terrorist attacks, the United States entered into war with Iraq.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But when he looked over, he noticed that Cam was dead.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Another person inside the Soldier Readiness Processing Center that day was Staff Sergeant Patrick Ziegler. He had just come home after his second deployment to Iraq, and he was just seconds away from getting cleared for Officer Candidate School.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
When the shots first rang out, Patrick originally thought it was some sort of training exercise, but then he saw a green laser flash across his eyes, followed by a huge blow to his head. Patrick would later say that it felt like someone had hit him in the face with a metal baseball bat.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He quickly hit the ground, and when he lifted his hand to the right side of his face, he felt pieces of it missing. Using the last bit of energy he had, Patrick began crawling towards the exit. Along the way, he noticed his own blood pooling beneath him. The last memory Patrick has is reaching out towards the leg of a chair. He was hoping that he could use it to pull himself closer to the door.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But instead of inching closer to the door, the chair just pulled towards him. Then, Patrick says he passed out. He was also shot three more times in the shoulder, arm, and hip. But surprisingly, he would survive. To this day, no one really knows how he got out of the building.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
A medic would later recall that he found Patrick, barely conscious, begging for someone to give him a phone so he could call his fiance Jessica.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And at the time, Nadal felt like he was fighting in a war against his own people, and this would only cause him to grow more and more radicalized. He even started chatting with a man named Anwar al-Awlaki, who had ties to Al-Qaeda. And while all of this was happening, Nadal was serving as a psychiatrist in the United States Army, unbeknownst to everyone.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Back inside the SRP Center, the gunmen continued firing at soldiers, many of whom had gone to war before. These soldiers would later say that the building looked just like a combat zone. There was gunfire, blood, bodies covering the floor, gun smoke filling the room. and an enemy trying to kill as many people as possible.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Without weapons of their own, the soldiers did what they could to keep themselves alive. Some reportedly began throwing chairs and tables at the gunmen. Others were putting their lives in danger trying to save the wounded. But one man, US Army Reserve Captain John P. Gaffney, decided that he was going to try and put a stop to this once and for all. Without giving it a second thought,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He charged at the gunman, but sadly, he was almost immediately shot and killed. 56-year-old Captain John Gaffney grew up in Williston, North Dakota, and he later joined the Navy, but eventually he would move to San Diego, California, where he worked for the National Guard while also earning his nursing degree. After serving his country for over 20 years,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
John would leave the military to work as a supervisor for Adult Protective Services. His job was to help disabled adults and the elderly who suffered from financial, mental, and emotional abuse. Clearly, John had a huge heart for others. But after the 9-11 terrorist attacks,
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But the biggest mystery of all wasn't what was found inside of the burned out home. It was what was missing from it. As it turns out, two teenage girls had been staying there that night. Danny and Kathy's daughter, Ashley Freeman, and her best friend, Laura Bible. But as investigators made their way through the scene, the girls' bodies were not among the rubble. So where were they?
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
So as you can see, the Freeman family had their fair share of issues. And because of this, both Ashley and Shane spent as much time out of the house as they could. Naturally, Ashley spent a lot of time with her best friend, Laura Bible. In fact, Laura's mom, Lorene, would later say that things were so bad for the Freeman family at this time.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
She didn't even let her daughter spend the night at the Freeman house. Ashley would just stay at their house all the time. Ashley's older brother, Shane, would also come to visit the Bible family when he could. Now at the time, he was actually living with a friend of his, and Lorene Bible said that the move seemed to be good for him.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Shane was a lot happier when he was away from his father, and Lorene made sure to let him know that he was always welcome to come over whenever he wanted. The Bible family loved Ashley and Shane. They had been in their lives for so long, it was like they were family. But sadly, Shane's life would take a drastic turn towards the end of 1998.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Before he knew it, Shane was leading the police on a high-speed chase outside of town. McAllister Police Sergeant Cecil Day told Tulsa World, quote, he went into a wooded area, bailed out of the truck and took off into the woods. We went after him with tracking dogs and lost him, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, at the time, authorities had no idea that the perpetrator was Shane Freeman, and instead, they referred to him as the Red Light Bandit. But back at school, Shane bragged about what he had done. When the media started covering the story of the Red Light Bandit, many students at his school knew that Shane was responsible, but no one turned him in, and he would continue on his path of crime.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Sadly, on January 7th, 1999, Shane decided to break into the home of his sister's best friend, Laura Bible. Like we mentioned, the Bibles treated Shane like family, and he seemed to have used this to his advantage. According to reports, Shane waited for Jay and Lorene to leave for work. And once they were gone, he went inside, ate their food, ordered a few pay-per-view pornos, and took a shower.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Then before leaving, he stole a number of things, including money, a firearm, and a bunch of ammunition. Later that day, when the Bible family came home, they immediately reported it to the police. Now, the very next day on January 8th, Shane was spotted on the side of the road changing a tire on a stolen vehicle.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
One of the farmers who lived nearby came out and asked if he needed help, but Shane refused. His father Danny would later say, quote, none of these farmers were worried. "'He was a well-mannered kid.'" However, for whatever reason, this farmer decided to call the police. Soon enough, around 4.20 p.m., a deputy with the Craig County Sheriff's Department pulled up to the scene.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Sadly, over 25 years later, even though there has been a conviction in the case, we are still asking that very question. So this is the story of Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
His name was David Hayes, and he was a rookie cop. He'd only been working with the department for two days, but when he pulled his cruiser up behind the disabled truck, he immediately noticed that it was Shane Freeman, someone he had recognized. At the time, Shane was a fugitive on the run, so the officers in town had studied his face.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
They had also been warned that Shane would likely be armed, as he had just stolen a gun the day prior. So when Deputy Hayes saw Shane Freeman, he immediately reached for his 22 caliber gun. And according to Hayes' account, Shane also grabbed his gun. Hayes would later say that he stared down the barrel of Shane's gun for around four seconds before he ultimately fired his weapon.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And the single shot ended up hitting Shane in the chest. At that moment, the 17 year old dropped to the ground on the side of that rural road. Shane Freeman was dead.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, there was an investigation into his death, and it was determined by the Craig County District Attorney that Deputy David Hayes had acted in self-defense. In the eyes of the law, the shooting was justified. But according to Shane's family, the Sheriff's Department had given them conflicting stories.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
At first, they said that Shane had made an inappropriate movement with his hand, but that they didn't see a gun. Then they said he had a rifle. Then a week later, they changed it again and said he had a pistol, which ended up being the final story they agreed upon. But Shane's family said they had even more questions when they saw his body.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
According to his uncle Dwayne, it was apparent by looking at the gunshot wound that Shane had turned to run when he was shot. His mother Kathy would later say, quote, the shot entered the back of Shane's left elbow and entered the body two inches to the left of his nipple. I want the angle of that shot explained, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
His uncle Dwayne said, quote, I think Shane was turning to run when he was shot. That's what he did when he was confronted by authority figures. he would run, end quote. But according to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, the evidence at the crime scene confirmed that Deputy Hayes fired in self-defense.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, Christmas is supposed to be a happy time, but for the Freeman family, tensions were high. Not only were they going through all of this stuff with the sheriff's department, but this would also be their first Christmas without Shane. However, the one thing that Ashley Freeman was looking forward to was her 16th birthday.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Once she finally had her license, she would have the freedom to get away whenever she wanted. And that day couldn't seem to come fast enough. Now over in Veneta, the Bible family had been gearing up for Laura's favorite holiday. During that winter break, Ashley and Laura had spent nearly every day together. According to Laura's mother, Lorene, her daughter absolutely loved Christmas.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And that year, they allowed her to decorate the tree however she wanted, which she was very happy about. When Christmas finally came around, the Bible family spent all day opening presents, eating good food, and spending quality time with each other. But they had no idea that this would be their very last Christmas with their daughter.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
According to Lorene, Ashley had been with them a lot that break. In the days after Christmas, the girls were soaking up the last bit of time they had together before they had to go to school that next week. Now, like we mentioned, Laura wasn't allowed to spend the night at Ashley's house.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
With everything that had been happening over the past few years, Bible didn't feel comfortable letting her daughter stay there. So anytime the girls hung out, it was always at their house. However, on the night of December 28th, Laura asked her mom if she could stay at Ashley's house this time.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
That night at midnight, it would be Ashley's 16th birthday, and she wanted to stay with her to celebrate. Now, Lorene would later say that she was a little apprehensive. Laura hadn't stayed the night at Ashley's house in over a year. But since it was Ashley's birthday, she told Laura that she could stay there.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
That Wednesday, December 29th, 1999, Laura and Ashley spent the day together, celebrating Ashley's 16th birthday. But by that afternoon, the girls weren't ready to say goodbye just yet. So Laura decided to call her mom. "'Can I just stay one more night?' she asked." I can imagine her pleading with her mom, like teenagers do, giving her all the reasons why she wanted to stay.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And ultimately, Lorene gave in. But she told Laura that she had to come back early that next day because she had a dentist appointment. Laura agreed to the conditions and thanked her mom for saying yes. When they hung up the phone, I'm sure Lorene thought to herself, what could one more night hurt? She assumed that she would be seeing her daughter early that next morning.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
and that life would go on as usual. But she couldn't have been more wrong because once she hung up that phone, she would never see or hear from her daughter ever again.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
So far, it had been a beautiful day. They didn't do anything crazy, but for Ashley, it was everything she wanted, spending the day with the people that she loved the most. Once they got back to their trailer, Ashley, Laura, her boyfriend, Jeremy, and her mom, Kathy, all sat around the table and sang Ashley happy birthday. She then closed her eyes and blew out the candles. making a wish.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
It's unclear what Ashley Freeman wished for, but at 16 years old, the possibilities were endless. Maybe she wished for that car she had been saving up for. Maybe she wished that her family would finally have peace after such a hard year. Whatever it was,
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Ashley's wish would sadly never come true because hours later at around 5 40 a.m local residents jack and diane bell were on their way to work when they noticed a huge fire in the vicinity of the freeman trailer it was obvious who the home belonged to because as they drove closer to the driveway they spotted the justice for shane banner in the front yard upon seeing the house in flames
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Thank you.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
jack immediately drove to the nearest home and called the craig county sheriff's department and 30 minutes later at around 6 10 a.m the craig county volunteer fire department was finally dispatched to the scene over the next few minutes the firefighters worked to put out the flames and once they did they now had the task of going through the home to see if anyone was inside and soon enough
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
they would find a body in the front bedroom of the home investigators found charred remains it was a deceased female lying face down on a water bed according to investigators the water bed had actually burst and extinguished the fire around the body so they were able to tell that it was a female but she did have severe burns on her back where she had been exposed to the flames
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Her knees were also slightly hanging off the bed, and her calves had been completely burned off her body.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now from here, Lorene called her husband, Jay, to let him know what was going on. And immediately he came to pick her up so they could drive to the crime scene. They still didn't have any answers and they were desperate. The 20 minute drive over to Welch felt like an eternity, but eventually they made it.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
As they pulled up to the gravel driveway that led to the Freeman's home, there was yellow crime scene tape
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
everywhere the sky was a grayish hue from the smoke that still lingered but when they exited their vehicle an officer stopped them they weren't allowed to go any further so jay and laureen could only stand back in horror as investigators worked their way around the property as far as they knew only one body had been discovered in the rubble
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And from where the body was located, Lorene was almost positive that it was Kathy. But that meant that three people were still unaccounted for. Her daughter, Ashley Freeman, and Danny Freeman. So where were they? Disturbingly, both Danny and Laura's cars were still parked out front of the Freeman home.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
In fact, Laura's blue Corsica, equipped with its airbrushed front license plate that read Dragon Wagon, still had the keys in the ignition. So if the girls had left, they couldn't have gone far. But outside the property, Lorene and Jay Bible still had horrible thoughts running through their minds. What if Laura and Ashley had been inside of the house, but they just hadn't been found yet?
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Our story for today starts on December 29th, 1999. Just days away from the new millennium, there was excitement in the air. People across America were writing down their future goals and aspirations. Some were closing old chapters and hoping to start fresh. But in the town of Welch, Oklahoma, there were people that were wanting to get revenge on those who they felt had wronged them.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And to their horror, investigators at the scene had to stop searching through the rubble until backup arrived. You see, because the Freeman family had a long history with the Craig County Sheriff's Department, they wanted to wait until the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation arrived before they went any further. In fact, one of the officers on scene was Deputy David Hayes.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
the same officer who had shot and killed Shane Freeman. So there was a conflict of interest here. And they didn't want to be accused of trying to cover anything up, so they had to wait. But unfortunately, OSBI was busy at the time. So for hours, Lorraine and Jay Bible stood back and watched as the local police department sat around and did absolutely nothing.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
During that time, they were sick with worry, and it wouldn't be until around 10 a.m., nearly five hours after the fire was reported, when someone from the OSBI finally showed up. Donna Warren, the Craig County medical examiner, also arrived at the scene and was able to take a closer look at the body in the front room. While there, she determined that the female victim was older.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
She wore a wedding band on her left hand. and it was obvious by her hip bones that she had born children. So to her, it was pretty clear that the body was indeed Kathy Freeman. But something else she couldn't help but notice was the gigantic wound in the back of the victim's head. As it turned out, Kathy Freeman had not died of smoke inhalation.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
She had been shot to death, murdered, and then set on fire.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
To the Bible family, it felt as if the Craig County Sheriff's Department had gotten in the OSBI's head, trying to convince them that Danny was this crazed killer. But the Bibles weren't convinced. They were very disappointed with the way the crime scene had been handled. The fact that investigators were already done looking through the rubble just didn't sit right with them.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Surely they had overlooked some evidence. and they were right. In fact, by this point, investigators hadn't even searched the entire 40-acre property. They had barely even ventured outside of where the trailer once stood. Lorene and Jay were worried that Laura and Ashley had escaped the trailer and run into the woods for safety.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Or worse, what if they had hidden inside of a closet and burned to death in the flames? So after leaving the police station that day, they decided that if OSBI wasn't going to search,
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, in the meantime, Lorene and Jay Bible decided to make their way to the crime scene to see if they could find any evidence that the police had missed. And boy, would they. On the morning of December 31st, 1999, the couple pulled up to what was left of the Freeman trailer, the last known place where their daughter had been seen.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Some ranchers in the area offered to help them search the property since the police never did. And while they did that, Lorene and Jay began sifting through the rubble. The scene in front of them was horrific. There was charred wood, debris, and ash everywhere, destroyed remnants of what was once a home. The smell of smoke was still thick, as they began searching.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Most of everything they came across had been completely destroyed, but every once in a while, they could make something out. There were pots and pans, what was left of a sofa. Then sadly, after a few minutes, they found the burned body of the Freeman's family dog, a Rottweiler named Sissy.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Lorene and Jay were shocked that the authorities had overlooked this, which had them thinking, if they didn't even locate the family's dog in the rubble, what else had they missed? Now from here, Jay and Lorene decided to go to that front bedroom where Kathy's body had been located. They began sifting through the rubble by hand.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
they could easily see where the waterbed had exploded, as the area around it was less burned than the rest of the house. But as the two looked closer, they made another shocking discovery. At the foot of the waterbed, underneath some debris, they found more bones. and they weren't Kathy's bones. In fact, after a little digging, they found an entire body.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, Lorene would later say that the body had no face, but it was obvious that it belonged to an adult male. The burst waterbed had also conserved parts of his lower jaw, and horrifically, Lorene and Jay said it looked like hamburger meat. But at that moment, they knew that they had found the body of Danny Freeman.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
There were still remnants of the clothes he had been wearing, which was a pair of gray sweatpants, a white t-shirt, and a flannel shirt. And as Lorene and Jay were looking at him, they couldn't believe their eyes. How on earth had investigators missed an entire body within the home?
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But this discovery really put tension between the Bible family and investigators. I mean, how can you even trust a department that made such a huge mistake? Not only had they barely even searched for the girls, but they shut the entire crime scene down after walking over a dead body all day. So what else had they missed? Now, soon enough, Deputy Troy Messick made his way to the scene.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Lorene would later say that she watched as the deputy pulled out his radio and said, quote, That thing that I came to check on, the answer is yes. Deputy Messick then apologized to both Jay and Lorene and stated that he needed to re-secure the crime scene.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
From there, he went back to his cruiser, pulled out a roll of yellow crime scene tape, and started rolling it around the perimeter of the trailer once again. He then told Lorene and Jay that they needed to leave because it was now an active crime scene, but Lorene refused.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
She didn't trust that investigators were going to do their jobs and she wanted to help look through the rubble for her daughter. But as you can imagine from this point forward, the Bibles had zero trust with the authorities handling the case.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
With the discovery of Danny Freeman's body, investigators now believe that the girls had been kidnapped by the person or persons who murdered Danny and Kathy. But Jay and Lorene Bible weren't convinced that the girls had been taken just yet. They believed that their bodies were somewhere in the debris.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
So for the next few hours, Jay Lorine and 150 volunteers sifted through the contents of the trailer. People had even brought chainsaws to cut through materials to gain access to sections that had collapsed. Lorraine shouted orders and everyone listened while the authorities stood around the outskirts of the crime scene.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
At some point that afternoon, the local funeral home had even come up and set up a tent. They handed out sandwiches and drinks for all the volunteers. Now inside what used to be Ashley's bedroom, the Bibles located Laura's purse. Inside, they found her driver's license and $200 in cash she had gotten as a Christmas present.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Lorene said that Laura had taken the money with her to pick out Ashley a birthday present. In the rubble, they also found her overnight bag that contained a partially burned pajama top. But luckily, after hours of searching, there was no sign of Laura or Ashley's remains. Now, remember earlier how I told you that Ashley had been saving up for that car?
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Well, like I mentioned, she had saved up about $4,000, which she kept in a Tupperware container in the freezer, but that money was missing. Also missing from the home was Danny's extensive Native American arrowhead collection. So investigators were beginning to wonder if this was a robbery gone wrong.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Anyone who knew Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman knew that they were best friends. And it had been that way ever since kindergarten. Laura Jaylene Bible was born on April 18th, 1983 to Jay and Laureen Bible in Veneta, Oklahoma. The couple married in July of 1978, and two years later, they had their first child, a son named Bradley.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, Lorene and Jay Bible weren't sold on this theory. Of course, they didn't trust the authorities after they handled the case so poorly, but they didn't think they were responsible. The relationship between the Bible family and the Craig County Sheriff's Department became even more strained when a new theory was introduced.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
After finding Danny Freeman's body, the department now suggested that maybe Ashley was the murderer. They believed it was possible that Ashley had murdered her parents, set the trailer on fire, and then fled with Laura and her $4,000 that she had saved up for her new car. They even suggested that maybe Ashley had witnessed her father murdering her mom.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
So in an effort to avenge her mother, she grabbed a shotgun, killed her father, and then fled the scene. But for the people who knew Ashley, they knew that that just wasn't the case. Neither of the girls had ever been violent with anyone. And if the girls had run away, then why would Laura leave behind her wallet with $200 inside? Even further, why wouldn't the girls leave in Laura's car?
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Their mutual friend Sheena Reese also stated that Laura Bible was a mama's girl. She would have never left her mother behind. So soon enough, this theory also fizzled out.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Then, three years after that, Laura came along, completing their family. And from the very beginning, her mom, Lorene, knew that Laura would be very independent. She started walking at nine months old. By a year and a half, she was talking to anyone who could listen. Her parents said that Laura was social, outgoing, and she loved to be the center of attention.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And by this point, Lorene Bible was the go-to person in the case. In fact, when local residents had tips, they would give them to her instead of the police department. But sadly, months and months would pass with no leads. Every single night before going to bed, Lorraine would make sure to leave her porch light on just in case Laura came back home.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
She even left the Christmas tree up that entire year. Laura had so much fun decorating it, Lorraine couldn't bring herself to take it down. So by that next Christmas, it was still exactly how she had left it. Sadly, the year 2000 would turn to 2001 and Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman were still missing.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now in September of 2001, a television show called What Really Happened decided to feature the Freeman and Bible case for their pilot episode. And several people close to the families were interviewed for it, including Kathy Freeman's friend, Deanna Dorsey. The woman Kathy confided in telling her that if anything ever happened to them, it was the Craig County Sheriff's Department.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
So obviously Deanna Dorsey was very outspoken about her suspicions of them. During the interview, Deanna and her daughter Katie sat down with the host, Rolanda Watts. Katie said, quote, "'I believe very, very strongly "'that the Craig County Sheriff's Department "'had everything to do with it, "'just because I know of instances "'that Ashley would tell me about.'"
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
The Craig County Sheriff's Department would watch their house. They'd park just like down the road in a barn and they would follow Danny into town and then follow him back home, park in that same barn and just watch every moment they left the house. And Deanna, who sat next to her daughter, nodded in agreement.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, as she got older, she really embraced her countryside. Growing up on a farm, Laura loved going outside and spending time with their animals. But her favorite animal of all were their pigs. For years, Laura and her cousin would buy piglets, raise them, and then take them to the annual Craig County Fair for showing. And somehow, Laura always knew how to pick out the best ones.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, the show never ended up airing, but a few weeks after Deanna Dorsey did her interview with them, she was shot and killed at the Craig County General Hospital. It was October 6th, 2001. Deanna was working her shift as a nurse and it was a pretty slow morning. At some point, she walked over to the nurse's station to call her daughter, Katie. However, before the call could connect,
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
a man wearing camouflage pants and an army coat walked straight up to deanna and pointed a gun in her direction before she could react he shot her five times emptying his weapon deanna dorsey was pronounced dead at 9 50 a.m now after shooting her the man ran from the scene Outside in the parking lot, he was confronted by a police officer where he was ultimately shot and killed.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
The man would later be identified as 47-year-old Ricky Martin. And disturbingly, when he walked into the hospital that day, he specifically asked for Deanna Dorsey. Now, an investigation would reveal that Ricky was a paranoid schizophrenic. and that he had no personal connection to Deanna. The Veneta Police Department issued a statement that read, quote, for some reason, he just picked her.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But the year 2001 is when investigators really leaned into the theory that the murders of Danny and Kathy Freeman had to do with Danny's underground meth distribution. According to Lorene Bible, she had heard rumors that Danny started selling meth in order to raise money for an attorney so he could file that civil lawsuit against the Craig County Sheriff's Department, which seemed to make sense.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
As it turns out, about 30 miles away in Ottawa County, they were having a huge meth problem at the time that Danny and Kathy were murdered. And soon enough,
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
some confidential informants who were tied to the meth scene would come forward with some interesting information these informants told the osbi that the day after the murders they were at a new year's eve party at this meth house when they spotted laura and ashley and soon after seeing them these informants claimed that there was a video circulating where the girls were being raped on camera
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Pictures show her proudly showing off all of the ribbon she won for her pigs at the county fair. But when she wasn't helping out on the farm, Laura enjoyed a number of things. She loved to paint, hang out with her friends, and make scented candles. She loved being a cheerleader for the Blue Jackets.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
According to the affidavit, Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman were alive six days after the trailer fire. And for days, it was reported that they were drugged, raped, and tortured by various men. And it was apparently all on video. Now, the location where this was allegedly happening was at the home of a man named Chester Shadwich.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Chester was known for throwing wild parties, parties where tweakers would smoke meth and stay up for days on end. Some informants even admitted that Chester had bragged about burying the bodies of Laura and Ashley on his property. So in 2001, the OSBI obtained a search warrant. And during their search, they even found a bunch of VHS tapes. But nothing of significance was ever found on them.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
There were also no bodies on his property. So unfortunately, investigators were back at square one.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And sadly, from here, the case began to grow cold. For six whole months, Lorraine Bible didn't receive one single tip, which was heartbreaking. Soon enough, 2001 turned to 2002, and they were no closer to solving the case. The disappearance of their daughter had completely taken over their lives. How are you supposed to work or eat when your own flesh and blood is out there somewhere?
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
How are you supposed to go on when you haven't seen your daughter in two whole years, when you don't know what happened to them? But Lorene was not going to give up. She still kept her porch light on every single night. She still had that Christmas tree up, completely untouched. And they say that time heals all wounds.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But even two years later, the town of Welch was still feeling the impact of these crimes. That year, Ashley and Laura's class graduated high school and their absence was felt by everyone. The community was still feeling a sense of paranoia, knowing that whoever did this was still out there. Laura's cousin, Missy Dixon, stated, "'I feel silly for saying this, "'but I felt really paranoid.'"
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Her father, Jay Bible, would later say that Laura often came home hoarse because she had yelled so much cheering at the football games. And that's the kind of person she was. She was cheerful, determined, full of life, and a natural leader. Her friends said that she was also very honest. One friend named Amanda Burnett would later tell KSN 16, quote, Laura wasn't afraid to speak her mind.
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I was scared out of my mind." But in the summer of 2002, their families were confident that the case would soon be solved when a serial killer came forward with a confession. It was May of 2002 when a letter came in to the Joplin Globe. The writer's name was Tommy Sells, and he was currently on death row in Texas.
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And as his execution date neared closer, he wanted to get some things off his chest, specifically what he did on the night of December 30th, 1999. The letter read this.
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Tommy Lynn Sells was a violent rapist, drug addict, and murderer. Between 1978 and 1999, he took trains across the United States, killing as many people as he could. It's suspected that he killed as many as 22 victims, but he confessed to over 70 murders. He even dubbed himself the coast to coast killer. Now, Tommy's murders were savage and opportunistic. He didn't have a specific victim type.
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He murdered men, women, and children. But the murder that landed him in prison was that of 13-year-old Katie Harris. On the night in question, Tommy broke into Katie's home while her parents were gone. And that night, also in the home with her that night, was her 10-year-old friend named Crystal. After breaking into the house, Tommy raped Katie, slit her throat, and then stabbed her 16 times.
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Horrifically, 10-year-old Crystal walked into the room when it was all happening. So Tommy slit Crystal's throat as well. But fortunately, Crystal survived. and she was able to help law enforcement track him down. Now, after Tommy's arrest and conviction, he confessed to dozens of murders across the United States, including that of Danny, Kathy, and Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible.
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When investigators sat down with him on death row, Tommy admitted that on the night of December 29th, 1999, he had been driving through Welch on his way to St. Louis, Missouri, when he stopped at a local convenience store. According to Tommy, it was at the convenience store when he spotted Ashley Freeman. From there, he said he followed them home.
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Later that night, when everyone was sleeping, Tommy said he murdered Danny and Kathy, set the home on fire, and then kidnapped the two girls. After this confession, he even went to Oklahoma to show investigators where he had buried the girls' bodies. But sadly, they were unable to find them.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, for a while, Lorene and Jay Bible were confident that they finally knew what happened to their daughter. And even though they didn't find their bodies, at least they had some answers. But sadly, even this wasn't true. Eventually, Tommy Sells admitted that he made the entire thing up. He said he was bored and he wanted to go outside.
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So he led investigators on this entire goose chase for nothing. Tommy Sells would be executed by the state of Texas in 2014.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
"'You always knew where you stood with her. "'She knew who she was "'and wasn't worried about fitting in.'" Now, her mother, Lorene, said that Laura was a girly girl. She loved all things hair and makeup, and she even planned on going to cosmetology school after graduation. But the one constant thing in her life was her best friend, Ashley Freeman.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
By 2005, it had been over five years since Lorene and J. Bible had seen their daughter. And that entire time, Lorene kept that Christmas tree up. It was something she looked at every single day of her life for five years. a grim reminder of one of the last memories she had with her daughter. Sadly, after years of being up, the tree started to wear down.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
So that year, Lorene finally decided to take it down. And I can't imagine how hard that must have been, but she did keep that porch light on every single night. After half a decade, she and her husband were hit with the reality that they might not ever see Laura again. But keeping that porch light on represented the small glimmer of hope that they still had.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Lorene would later say that after the confession of Jeremy Jones, the OSBI slowed down on their investigation. And for the next few years, there were hardly any tips coming in. It felt as if the entire world was moving on while they were still trapped in this never ending nightmare. By 2010, over 10 years after the girls went missing, the Freeman family declared Ashley Freeman dead.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But Lorene and J. Bible weren't ready for that. They were still holding on to hope. In 2016, Lorene created a Facebook page titled Find Laura Bible. And luckily, it seemed to spark some new interest in the case. Little did they know, answers were right around the corner.
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Laura and Ashley had met in kindergarten, and they had been inseparable ever since. Their kindergarten teacher, Kathy Wood, would later say, "'They're all very special to me. "'There were 12 students in the class, "'and it was in my class "'that their close friendship was formed.'"
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, within these documents that were just sitting at the police station for almost 20 years, there were witnesses who claimed that Phil, Ronnie, and David had bragged about their involvement in the Freeman Bible case. One witness even stated that the men had been passing around these Polaroid pictures. In them, there were two girls who had been gagged and duct taped to a chair.
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The witness said that they looked emaciated, but the two girls were, without a doubt, Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible. Now, there were roughly 10 to 15 photographs. In some of them, Phil Welch was actually posing with the girls, like the sick monster he was. and he reportedly kept the pictures in a briefcase of his.
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But disturbingly, there were many witnesses who knew that these three men were definitely involved in the murders. But sadly, only one of them was still alive. The ringleader Phil Welch had passed away on July 29th, 2007, and David Pennington passed away in June of 2015. But Ronnie Pusek was still alive.
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There was a chill in the air in Walsh, Oklahoma. Over at the Freeman trailer, the girls had spent that night celebrating Ashley's 16th birthday. Ashley's boyfriend, Jeremy, had even come over. After singing her happy birthday and eating some cake, the teenagers sat in front of the TV and watched a hunting show. At around 10.30 p.m., Jeremy left to go home. And soon after that...
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Everyone in the Freeman house went to bed. Laura and Ashley were sleeping in Ashley's room and Danny and Kathy were asleep in the front bedroom. But over in the nearby town of Pitcher, Oklahoma, three men, Phil Welch, David Pennington and Ronnie Busick were gearing up to take their revenge. According to Ronnie, Danny Freeman was indeed involved in the meth scene in this area.
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And in the weeks before the murders, he wasn't paying back his debts. Apparently, Danny owed Phil Welch some money for two ounces of methamphetamine. Now, I tried to calculate how much money this would have been. And in 2002, according to the National Drug Intelligence Center, an ounce of meth cost anywhere from $350 an ounce to $3,000.
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Now these guys were making meth in their own homes, so it definitely wasn't high quality. It's likely that Danny owed Phil a few thousand dollars at most. But on this night, he was ready for bloodshed over his unpaid debt. So in the early morning hours of December 30th, 1999, Phil, David, and Ronnie all made their way over to the Freeman trailer.
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Ronnie would later say that when they arrived at the home, he and David waited outside while Phil walked up to the house with a shotgun hidden in his trench coat. He quickly made his presence known. and Danny Freeman came to the door.
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Now it's unknown if Danny let him in or if Phil forced his way inside, but at some point, the two were standing in the kitchen of the trailer and Phil was demanding the money he was owed. And before they knew it, a fight ensued. Now, according to Ronnie, during the fight, Danny tried to grab his .357 Magnum from the kitchen table. So Phil had no other choice but to shoot him.
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However, that's likely not what happened. In reality, Phil wanted money that Danny didn't have. And when he realized he wasn't going to get paid, he shot him right then and there. Horrifically, in the front bedroom of the home, Danny's wife, Kathy, heard the arguing going on in the kitchen. She likely went to see what was going on when she heard the gunshot.
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According to Ronnie, Phil didn't want to leave any witnesses. So it's here where he went in the primary bedroom. Standing there in the darkness of that room, Kathy knew that she was in grave danger. And then she saw him, Phil Welch, standing in the doorway with a shotgun. Kathy turned to run away from him. but it was too late. Phil aimed his gun at her and fired a shot into the back of her head.
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Kathy's body then collapsed onto the water bed. From there, Phil went back into the kitchen where the body of Danny Freeman was lying on the ground. He then dragged Danny's body into the primary bedroom and threw him down onto the foot of the waterbed. And it's here where he decided that he was going to burn the trailer down, destroying all of the evidence inside.
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But little did Phil know, in the back bedroom of that trailer were two teenage girls. Minutes earlier, when Phil and Danny were arguing in the kitchen, the girls woke up. They could tell that the conversation was heated, so they stayed put. But then they heard the gunfire, the piercing sound of several shotgun blasts. And that's when they knew they had to get out of there.
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And in their pursuit, they were ruthless. On that cold winter night in 1999, on a secluded property in Welch, Oklahoma, the sound of gunshots echoed through the air. Soon after, gasoline was being poured throughout the home, and then a match was lit. Within seconds, the home erupted in a fiery blaze. Flames consumed everything, turning cherished family memories into rubble and ash.
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Both Ashley and Laura snuck out the back door of the trailer, but they didn't know where to go. Laura's car was out front, but so were Phil's accomplices, David and Ronnie. They were also out in the middle of nowhere on a 40-acre property.
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So after running out the back door of the trailer, Ashley and Laura decided that the best thing they could do was run out into the field and lay down on the ground. So that's what they did. It's horrible to think about the fear that was running through their bodies in that moment. For Ashley, she had just heard her parents get murdered.
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And now these three men were running through, ransacking the trailer. While inside, Phil, David, and Ronnie stole money, marijuana, and anything of value they could get their hands on. According to Ronnie, Phil then instructed them to grab the container of gasoline and pour it throughout the house. And they did as they were told. Over the next few minutes, Ronnie and David doused the home
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They poured it all over the kitchen, the wood stove, and the living room. Then, Phil reportedly lit the match and threw it down. For a moment before leaving, Phil, David, and Ronnie watched the fire, making sure the flames were spreading throughout the trailer. And once they were satisfied, they were going to leave.
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But sadly, out in the fields after seeing the trailer go up in flames, the girls' first instinct was that they needed to get out of there. Perhaps they thought that the men were gone, or maybe they heard them walking nearby. So together, they stood up and began running, running as fast as they possibly could. But it's here where Phil Welch spotted them. Ashley and Laura did their best to escape,
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but with three grown men on their tails, they were eventually tackled to the ground. And sadly, instead of killing them right then and there, Phil had another idea. The men threw the girls into the back of his vehicle and from there, they made the 30 minute drive to Phil's meth house in Pitcher, Oklahoma.
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Once there, Phil put the girls in a back room, shoved socks into their mouth and tied them up. Over the next couple of days, They were brutally raped and tortured. Horrifically, Ronnie Busick said that the girls could have been held in captivity for weeks. He couldn't really remember.
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But during that time, Phil Welch even forced the girls to do meth and he took Polaroid pictures of the entire thing. However, he knew he couldn't keep them forever. With his heavy meth usage also came paranoia. And when the case started gaining traction, he decided to kill them.
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Ronnie admitted that Phil strangled both Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible and then discarded their bodies in an unknown location.
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But those very qualities are what made Ashley and Laura such good friends. They complemented each other well. And during their childhoods, the girls spent a lot of time together. They only lived about one mile away from each other. So their weekends were always filled with playdates and sleepovers. However, when the girls were in sixth grade, they received devastating news.
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in july of 2020 ronnie pleaded guilty to accessory to second degree murder and he agreed to help locate the bodies of ashley and laura in exchange for a lighter sentence from there he was ultimately sentenced to just 10 years in prison the families were definitely not happy about this but at the very least they'd get to lay laura and ashley to rest
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So following his sentence, Ronnie told investigators that the girls had been buried in a root cellar at a residence in Pitcher, Oklahoma. However, to this day, they have still never been found.
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And I feel like it's a kick in the teeth to Tammy and Gary who've finally made their way to us and they've worked so hard to try to find some justice for us when no one else would before.
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that they were going to have to live in different towns. Sadly, that's the year that Ashley and her family moved to nearby Welch, where Danny and Kathy owned 40 acres and set up a trailer on their property. Now again, Welch and Vanita are only about 20 minutes away from one another, but as a preteen, Learning that your best friend is moving schools feels like the end of the world.
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But the girls vowed to never let it get in the way of their friendship. And it didn't. It was a promise they kept for years.
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And sadly, this is where our story ends. It has been 25 years since the tragedy that took the lives of Danny, Kathy, Ashley, and Laura. A tragedy that completely rocked a small Oklahoma town. After all these years, the community of Welch was so happy to learn that someone was finally being convicted for the crime.
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And you can only imagine their outrage when they learned that Ronnie Busick was set free. He's once again a member of their community after only serving a few years in prison. It isn't fair. Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible only got 16 years before their lives were brutally taken from them in the most horrific way you can imagine. Their families have lived in this nightmare for decades.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And just when they thought that they were finally going to get answers, the rug was ripped out from under them. Not only is Ronnie Busick walking free, but he never even helped find their bodies, which is at the very least what their families deserve. Lorene Bible has said that she will not rest until these girls are brought home. So for now, their story remains unfinished.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
When it came to school, Ashley really excelled in sports and she could beat any boy in a race. Her classmate, Sheena Reese, remembered the day that Ashley challenged the fastest boy runner in their class. The entire class lined up to watch them race. And they all erupted in cheers as Ashley beat him to the finish line. But she wasn't just good at running.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Ashley was also a talented basketball player at Welch High School. And she was a member of the school's National Honor Society. Now both Laura and Ashley were very smart girls. It was reported that they were both in the top 10% of their class. They took their schoolwork seriously, but they also knew how to unwind and have fun.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, despite going to different schools, Laura and Ashley still had a very tight-knit friendship. And by 1999, Laura had finally gotten her driver's license and a car, which was perfect because now the girls could hang out whenever they wanted. And this marks a very special time in a teenager's life. Getting a car means more independence, more freedom.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, Ashley wouldn't be turning 16 until that December, but she was counting down the days until her birthday. For months, she had been saving up money from her job at the local convenience store so she could buy herself a small Toyota. Every time she got a paycheck, she would take out a portion of it in cash, and she would store the money in a sealed Tupperware container
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
that she kept in her family's freezer. By the winter of 1999, with her birthday approaching, Ashley had already saved up about $4,000. She also already had her driver's license test scheduled for December 30th, 1999, the day after her 16th birthday. But little did she know, she would never make it to her driver's test.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Eventually, law enforcement made their way to the scene where they made a gruesome discovery. In the front room of where the home once stood, the bodies of Danny and Kathy Freeman both had gunshot wounds to their heads, and both had been set on fire in the blaze. From the very beginning, it was obvious that somebody had a vendetta against this family.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
The residents of Welch, Oklahoma were well aware of his marijuana business. And there were even rumors that he had been dabbling with methamphetamine. And like we mentioned, methamphetamine use was pretty popular in this town. But Danny Freeman also had a reputation of having a volatile temper. In 1985, he was arrested and charged with assault after he attacked his father-in-law, Bill Chandler.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Apparently, Bill had accidentally mowed down all of Danny's marijuana plants. and Danny went absolutely ballistic on him. After the attack, Bill even filed a restraining order against him. It was no secret that Danny Freeman had a temper and his children knew this more than anyone, especially his oldest son, Shane.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, Shane was born on November 6th, 1981 and was described as a good kid who started to go down a dark path during his teenage years. He played football and basketball at Welch High School and was popular, but he wasn't an ideal student. In fact, in high school, he had some behavioral issues and was constantly getting suspended.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Because of this, he had to regularly speak with his school counselor. And during one of their sessions in 1998, When Shane was 16 years old, the counselor noticed these dark bruises all over him. When asked where the bruises came from, Shane admitted that his father physically abused him. Now, in August of that year, Shane ended up running away from home.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, after a few days, his parents decided to call the Craig County Sheriff's Department. A deputy named Troy Messick was eventually able to track Shane down. And when he did... Shane told him a horrific story. He said that his father's abuse had been too much to bear, so he ran away. Shane even pulled down his pants and showed the deputy these bloody wounds all over his butt.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Apparently, Danny had whipped him over 30 times with a telephone cord. Deputy Messick would later say, quote, the first thing I saw was that he had bled completely through his underwear, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
The next case took place in Somerville, Illinois in 1986. This would have been four years after Naomi's murder and Larry Hall would have been around 24 years old. But unlike the previous murder where the victim's name was written in his notebook, Larry actually confessed to this one. He said that he had been driving around Illinois
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
likely traveling from one of those car shows when he noticed a young woman on the side of the road. She was hitchhiking and Larry decided to pull over. The woman in question was 26-year-old Lalia Malia Chavez, who went by the name Lolly. Now, Lolly was originally from Costa Rica, and she had been adopted by a family in California.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
At some point in the mid-70s, Lolly became estranged from her adoptive family, and over the years, she was known to hitchhike across the country. However, this time, it's suspected that she got into the car of a killer, someone who might have been Larry Hall. Now, what exactly transpired next, we don't know, but we do know that Lolly was met with a horrific death.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
she had been sexually mutilated and strangled with a piece of her own clothing. Then following her death, her body was mutilated. Her killer even tried to remove her reproductive organs post-mortem. On September 6th, 1986, Lolly's nude body was discovered in a cornfield near Somerville, Illinois. And when investigators saw the damage, they knew they were dealing with a monster.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But sadly, Lolly's body would go unidentified for decades. During that time, she was simply known as the Somerville Jane Doe. For years, autopsy photographs and sketches were used in newspapers to help identify her. But unfortunately, no one knew who she was. However, in 2007, the Somerville Jane Doe was exhumed and her DNA was extracted. Shockingly, they discovered a match.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
As it turns out, Lolly had a prior misdemeanor arrest under an alias she used, Folia Chavez. and that's how they learned of her identity. Now, there are people who believe Larry Hall was responsible for Lolly's death, but there are also people who don't.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But in the 1980s and 90s, there was a man who participated in these reenactments who did have a thirst for bloodshed. However, his preferred victim wasn't a grown man in uniform. In fact, when the day ended, he took off that uniform and he would go out into the town and hunt for young girls. So this is the story of suspected serial killer, Larry Hall. I'm Courtney Brown.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
You see, a year after Lolly was identified, Larry Hall, who had been arrested by that point, wrote a letter to a television reporter confessing to her murder. He even gave specific details about how he picked her up while she was hitchhiking. However, when detectives ultimately questioned him, He denied any involvement.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now there was DNA from the crime scene that was tested against Larry's, but the results were inconclusive, meaning that it could neither be confirmed or denied. And as of today, Lawley's murder remains unsolved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
The following year in 1987, a 10-year-old girl named Linda Lynn Weldy disappeared after getting off her school bus in La Porte, Indiana. Described by her mother, Karen, as a joyful and funny girl with a good sense of humor, Linda loved being outdoors. She was a fifth grader at her elementary school and she was extremely close to her family. But on that February afternoon, Linda vanished.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now that night, when her mom got home from work, she saw that her son and boyfriend were home, but Linda was gone. The guys had just assumed that she had went over to a friend's house, but Karen knew that something was wrong, so she called the police. But sadly, by then, Linda had already been missing for over seven hours.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
When the police showed up, there were no signs of a struggle where Linda had been dropped off. There were no eyewitnesses that saw her being abducted. Her bus driver even said that there weren't any suspicious vehicles around either, and sadly for weeks, there were no leads in the case.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
That is until March 17th, 1987, when a farmer near Kingsbury had been clearing out a piece of land when he stumbled upon the decomposing body of Linda Weldy. She was found near an abandoned railroad track, and it was clear she had been manually strangled.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, she did have her clothes on, but due to the state of decomposition, they were not able to tell whether or not she had been sexually assaulted. But they did see that she had put up a fight. When her body was discovered in the tall weeds, Linda was still clutching the grass in her fists. And unfortunately, no one was ever charged with her murder.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But years down the road after Larry Hall's arrest, he was looked into as a person of interest. And he even confessed to Linda's murder, but later recanted it. Larry also happened to be in the area at the time of Linda's disappearance. But they eventually came to the conclusion that he was not responsible. At least, they didn't have enough evidence to prove it was him.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And to this day, Linda's case is unsolved. I loved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After spending their weekends traveling around with the Iron Brigade, the Hall twins were well-known within the group. But like always, people seemed to prefer Gary Hall over his quiet and introverted twin brother, Larry. People that worked with them said that Larry was never one to strike up a conversation. He was so shy, they even gave him the nickname Laidback Larry.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now something else these men noticed about Larry was that he always drove to these reenactments in his van. And this job brought them to towns all over the Midwest. When they were done with their work for the day, Larry was known to get into his van and go explore whatever town they were in. But when he would take these drives, he always avoided the interstates.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He preferred the long country roads that took you through the rural neighborhoods. Every time he would leave to go take these drives, his coworkers always assumed that he was just the kind of guy that preferred peace and quiet, someone who loved long drives all by himself. But in reality, Laid-back Larry wasn't at all who they thought he was.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
As it turns out, Larry Hall would use this opportunity to drive around these towns and look for women. And just like he did in high school, when he would find someone he was attracted to, he would stalk them. At times, Larry would follow these women around for days, and he would make notes about them in his journal. He would write down the area where young women frequented.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
he would write down the supplies he needed to abduct them. And eventually, after following a victim around for days, he would find a moment where they were finally alone. Using his van, Larry would pull up beside these girls and abduct them. He would usually use a knife to intimidate them, saying if they just followed instructions, they would make it out alive.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But that was always an empty promise. Because once these girls were inside of his van, Larry knew that they would never be leaving. And the horrors that took place inside of that van were unimaginable. Larry would tie these women up and rape them. Then when he was finished with the assault, He would kill them by either stabbing or strangulation.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After the murders, he would discard their bodies in remote parts of town. Some of his victims would end up being found. Others are still missing to this day. But at the time, because he was from out of town, investigators in the area would never have Larry on their radar.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
By 1989, Civil War reenactments had become a huge part of Larry's life. In fact, that year, he and his twin brother Gary had been invited to be extras in a Civil War movie called Glory. And this was a big opportunity for them. That weekend, the twins loaded up Larry's van and started to make the drive to the movie set in Atlanta, Georgia. Along with them was their friend, Michael Thompson.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now along the way, Gary reached down into a seat when he felt something at the tip of his fingers. It was a fabric of some sort. When he pulled it up, Gary was shocked to see a pair of women's underwear. Now for the first time in their 27 years of life, Larry had never had a girlfriend. In fact, he had barely even talked to girls.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So as you can imagine, seeing these underwear in his car was surprising. But when he asked Larry about them, he brushed it off. Larry even laughed saying, you must have planted those there. Sitting in the back seat, their friend Michael Thompson would later say that upon hearing this conversation, he couldn't help but think that something felt off.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Maybe it was the look on Larry's face when the underwear were pulled out. A look as though he had just been caught doing something bad. Now, Michael was closer to Gary than he was Larry. Larry was quiet and kept to himself. But every once in a while, he would have these moments of rage, especially when things didn't go his way.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Michael said that one time Larry found a scratch on his Civil War rifle and in that moment he turned into an entirely different person, screaming in anger. All of these men knew that Larry could be unpredictable. They also knew that he would often take his van and drive through these small rural towns for hours on end. No one ever knew where he was or what he was doing.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Most of the guys just assumed he was hiring sex workers. However, Larry spent his free time doing something much, much darker. And unbeknownst to law enforcement, nearly every time Larry Hall drove through these towns, young women were going missing.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On July 1st, 1991, Larry Hall was in Indianapolis, Indiana. He had driven there to look at a 1982 blue Dodge van that he was interested in. But he also decided to use his time to drive around looking for young women. And according to Larry, he would eventually find one. That afternoon, 20-year-old Michelle Dewey was outside her apartment complex sunbathing with her infant son, Will.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
It was a beautiful day out, but unbeknownst to Michelle, a man had been watching her for hours. Eventually, she would go inside her apartment to put her son down for a nap, and according to Larry, that's when he decided to go in for the attack, barging into Michelle's apartment with a knife. And it's here where a struggle ensued.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Michelle ran around her apartment trying to escape him, but eventually, he got her, and on the floor of her apartment, she was strangled and stabbed to death. Now later that night, Michelle actually had plans, so she had hired a babysitter, but when that babysitter showed up to her apartment, She had no idea what she was about to walk into.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
As soon as she stepped inside, there was blood everywhere. So she immediately called Michelle's father and the police. Soon after, investigators would find Michelle Dewey's body and hidden within a closet, they found her son, Will, unharmed. Now, we don't know if Michelle put him in there to protect him against the killer or if the killer put him there himself.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And sadly, like many of the others, Michelle's case would go unsolved. But years later, Larry Hall would confess to the crime. He said that he saw Michelle and her son out by the pool that day, and he knew right then that he wanted to have her. So when she went inside of her apartment... He followed her. However, things did not go as planned.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
According to Larry, during the attack, Michelle's son, Will, started screaming. Larry said it, quote, freaked him out. So in that moment, he left the scene in a hurry, but he made sure to grab one souvenir, a record album. Now, like I said, Larry did confess to this crime, but he would eventually recant that confession. And today...
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Our story starts with hundreds of men running towards each other on a battlefield. Each of these men have their own weapons and their goal is to kill as many people on the other side as possible. The sound of gunfire is going off every other second. Soldiers are dropping to the ground left and right. This battle goes on for quite some time, often until someone surrenders.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
The Indianapolis police continue to investigate his involvement in Michelle's murder, but the case remains unsolved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After the filming of Gettysburg, Larry Hall found himself in Menasha, Wisconsin in August of 1992. And as he was driving around town, he was on the lookout for a beautiful young woman he could attack. And eventually... It's suspected that he crossed paths with 20-year-old Lori Jean Deppies. That evening, Lori had just finished a shift at the graffiti store gift shop near US 41.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After leaving the store, she started walking towards her 1984 Volkswagen. It was around 10 p.m., so the parking lot was mostly empty, except for Larry Hall's van. After spotting Lori, it's suspected that Larry followed her and he ended up following her all the way over to her boyfriend's apartment.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, according to Larry, he had actually met her earlier that day at the mall and he asked her out, but Lori respectfully declined. She said that she was meeting up with some friends after work, so she wouldn't be able to hang out with him. However, for that entire day, Larry continued following Lori. He said that when she left work that night, he was in his van waiting for her.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And as she drove to her boyfriend's apartment, he was following close behind. Once she arrived, Lori got out of her car and began to grab her stuff. And it's here where Larry said he approached her and asked if she wanted to look at a photo album of vintage cars. Now, Larry said that Lori willingly got into his van to look at the pictures. But anyone hearing this story knows that that isn't true.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
If Larry had already approached her at the mall that day, then she would have known that he was following her, and she definitely would have been scared. But according to Larry, once she got into the van, he injected her with an animal tranquilizer, something he said he got from a friend. Then, once she was unconscious, he sped out of the parking lot and found a remote area to rape and murder her.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He then disposed of her body in a wooded area. Now, disturbingly, earlier that night, Lori's boyfriend said that he actually heard her car pull up to his apartment. She apparently had this loud muffler, so he knew that she had arrived. After hearing her car shut off, he was expecting her to walk through the door at any moment, but several minutes would pass with nothing.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So from there, he decided to go outside. And just like he expected, There was Lori's Volkswagen in the parking lot, but there was no sign of Lori. Now at first, he thought this was some kind of prank she was playing. He even jokingly yelled out, "'Come out, come out wherever you are,' but Lori didn't come out." And eerily enough, her car was locked with her overnight bag still inside.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Then on top of her car roof was a styrofoam cup of soda with the ice still melting. So from here, her boyfriend decided to call the police.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In March of 1993, Larry Hall was in Indiana, and he decided to drive his van to Indiana Wesleyan University. Colleges were Larry's favorite places to visit. They were full of young and unsuspecting women, who were often walking around campus at all hours of the day. And on this day in particular, he parked his van near Marsh's grocery store. The store happened to be right next to campus.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
so there were a ton of college women going in and out of the store for hours on end. Larry had parked his van in the parking lot and watched as each woman walked out the door. There were many that he was attracted to, but none that he found worthy enough to kill.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He was specifically looking for girls with short brown hair, but as he sat in his van, he pulled out his notebook and wrote down the following.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Get the van ready. You see, Larry's van wasn't just a way for him to travel around the country. In fact, it was packed full of everything he needed to abduct and murder women. In the back, he had tarps, knives, ropes, hacksaws, shovels, cleaning products, starter fluid, rags, binoculars, and duct tape. Over the years, he had perfected his craft
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He had learned how to kidnap, how to murder, and how to dispose of his victims' bodies. With every kill, he added onto his list so that his van was packed with everything he would ever need. And on this weekend, as he was looking for his next victim, he would eventually see 19-year-old Trisha Lynn Reitler. Trisha had walked past Larry's van, having no idea that eyes were watching her.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And as soon as Larry saw her, he knew that she was the one. Disturbingly, over the next few days, Larry studied Trisha's every move. And finally, on the evening of March 29th, 1993, he decided it was time to attack.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Trisha had had a busy week full of exams and writing papers. College can definitely be stressful and overwhelming, but something that always helped her relieve her stress was going on daily jogs. Trisha loved it. But lately on her jogs, she noticed a mysterious van following in the distance. Trisha was so concerned, she even told her roommate that she believed she was being stalked.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
She said that this van would slowly drive behind her for a little. and then eventually turn off on a side street. And something deep down within her told her that something was wrong. But she truly had no idea what was ahead. On March 29th, 1993, Trisha had spent the entire day writing a college paper.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And finally that evening, she decided to take a break and treat herself to a root beer at Marsh's grocery store. However, Little did Trisha know, Larry Hall was waiting for her. He ended up parking near this park near her dorm. After days of watching her, he knew that she would have to walk through this park to get back to her apartment. So he sat and waited.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry DeWayne Hall did not enter this world by himself. In fact, he came here just a few minutes after another little boy named Gary Hall. The two were twins, Gary and Larry. And throughout their lives, you'll see that Gary seemed to have been dealt the upper hand, which was even the case before the two were born. You see, Larry and Gary were monochorionic twins.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Finally, around 8.30 p.m., Trisha came out of Marsha's grocery store with her root beer and she started the walk back home. According to Larry, he watched in anticipation waiting for the perfect time to strike. As soon as she started walking through the park, he put his van in drive and drove over to her.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, as you can imagine, after seeing this van following her on her jogs, Trisha must have been terrified when she saw it coming. According to Larry, she even screamed and tried to run away, but he quickly jumped out of his van and tackled her. Using a knife to intimidate her, he told Trisha to calm down and she wouldn't get hurt. But that was a lie.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
While pressing the knife against her skin, he ordered her to undress. Tricia obeyed and removed her shirt, shoes, and pants. She knew what was about to come next. So in an effort to protect herself, Tricia tried to run. But Larry was faster. He eventually caught up and punched her in the face until she was unconscious. He then grabbed her and threw her into the back of his van.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
According to Larry, he already had a tarp laid out for this exact moment. He knew what he was doing, and he didn't want to get her DNA in his van. He also had these wooden beams in his van, and connected to the beams were these straps.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Investigators believe that he would use them to restrain women in the back of the van while he drove to a secluded location, which is likely what happened with Trisha. After securing her, Larry got into the driver's seat and drove around town. That park where he had attacked her had too many people around. He needed to find a more remote area. And finally, he found one.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry said that it's here where he pulled over and he raped her. Once Larry was finished with the assault, he would kill her like he killed his other victims. Now in the back of his van was his Civil War uniform, which included two belts. Larry said that he interlocked the belts, placed Trisha up against a tree, and then put the belt around her neck.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry then stood behind the tree, holding one end of the belt in each of his hands. He then used his body to pull against it for several minutes until he felt Trisha go limp. Once she was dead, he said he concealed her body and fled the area like he always did. But in his journal, he made some notes for himself. After Trisha's murder, he wrote the following,
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Over the next few days, Trisha's roommates started to grow concerned when they couldn't find her. So finally, on the morning of March 31st, they called the police. They also told them about how Trisha thought she was being stalked in the days before her disappearance. And as you can imagine, when people on campus heard that a young girl had gone missing, everyone was terrified.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Female students grew concerned for their own safety. No one wanted to walk alone at night. But the community really came together to help investigators in the search. Over the next few weeks, hundreds of volunteers helped search the 220-acre campus. Cadaver dogs were brought in. Divers searched the nearby marshes and lakes.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Volunteers were on horsebacks, and some were even using their own boats to search the waters. But their search was coming up empty. However, they would end up searching that field in between Marsh's grocery store and Trisha's dorm. And that's when they found her clothing and shoes. In fact, the shoes belonged to Trisha's mother, Donna.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
which meant they shared a placenta. And while in utero, Gary received a greater share of oxygen and nutrients. In fact, it was reported that Gary had, quote, fed on Larry in the womb, end quote. So when the twins were born, Larry had to spend some time in the neonatal intensive care unit while his brother Gary was doing just fine.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
She had given them to Trisha shortly before she left for college because she loved them so much. Now apparently, one of the items of clothing had small amounts of blood on it, but after searching the nearby areas, there was still no sign of Trisha.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After a week, it seemed as though they had searched everywhere, including abandoned rail cars, isolated fields, dumpsters, ditches, and even trash cans lined out on the streets. Thousands of missing persons flyers were distributed, with a reward of $10,000 for her whereabouts.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But unfortunately, weeks and weeks would pass with no trace of her, which is horrifically where the case still stands today. Trisha Reitler's body has never been located. Anyone with any information is still encouraged to call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS. Here she is. That's a baby.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But this would seem to mirror what their lives would kind of always look like. Gary would be known as the stronger, more confident of the two, while Larry suffered from health problems and insecurity.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now in the weeks after Trisha's disappearance, the women on campus were on edge. Even though investigators hadn't found her body, Trisha's clothes being abandoned in that field told them everything that they needed to know, that someone had likely raped and killed her. So women made sure to walk around campus with their friends. After all, there's safety in numbers, right?
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But unbeknownst to everyone, just one week after Trisha's disappearance, her killer was back on campus to find yet another victim. It was April 6th, 1993. 19-year-old Christian Zoeller and her roommate, 20-year-old Heather Edgett, decided to walk together to Marsh's grocery store to pick up a few items. the same grocery store where Larry Hall spotted Trisha.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And on this day, he had his eyes set on his next potential victims, Christian and Heather. As the girls walked back to campus, they suddenly noticed his mysterious van following them close behind. Christian would later tell police that the van got so close, she could have reached out and touched it.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But remembering what happened to Trisha Reitler, the girls quickly bolted across the field, running as fast as they could as the driver yelled out something behind them. The girls immediately called campus security and they gave a description of the man. The thing that stuck out the most was his mutton chop sideburns.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On September 19th, 1993, Larry attended a Revolutionary War reenactment at Forest Glen Park in Woodridge, Illinois. For hours, he and his men marched around that field shooting at soldiers. But as the battle for the day ended, Larry Hall was itching for a different kind of violence, a real one. So he took off his uniform, got into his van, and he started driving around the city of Woodbridge.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Around that time, 15-year-old Jessica Lynn Roach was riding her mountain bike home from school in the nearby city of Georgetown, Illinois. The bike had been a gift from her parents, and she absolutely loved it. That day, when Jessica finally got closer to her house, her older sister, Mendy, actually drove past her. She was leaving home to go run some errands.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But little did she know, this would be the very last time she would ever see her sister alive. because just down the road was Larry Hall. Larry had spotted Jessica on her bike and immediately pulled over to talk to her, but Jessica was scared, even more so when Larry got out and approached her. On the side of that desolate road, with no one around, he pushed Jessica into his van.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He then sped off with no one seeing a thing. Now, about an hour later, Jessica's sister, Mindy, would come back home after running those errands. But along the way, she saw something that made her stomach drop. It was Jessica's bike in the middle of the road, abandoned. Mindy immediately stopped the car and started yelling out her sister's name.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
She even started honking her horn in hopes that Jessica would hear her, but there was no sign of her little sister. After moving her bike out of the road, Mindy rushed back home and burst through her family's front door. "'Have you seen Jessica?' she asked her brother Chris, but he hadn't." Mindy then ran to her parents' room where her dad Lauren was taking a nap.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After waking him up, she told him the horrific news, that Jessica was missing and that her bike was found in the middle of the road. So from here, Lauren immediately called the police. When they finally made their way to the scene, they saw Jessica's bike. They also saw what appeared to be a small disturbance in the gravel next to her bike.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But this is a safe town, a town where you can rely on your neighbors. So at first, everyone was thinking that maybe someone had hit Jessica with their car and brought her to the hospital. However, after checking the local hospitals, there was still no sign of her.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Days and days would pass without finding her. And even though her family knew she hadn't run away, I'm sure part of them hoped that maybe she did, that soon enough she'd come walking through the door and that they could all laugh about this one day. But deep down, they knew that that wasn't the case. And with each passing day, the chances of her coming home were growing slimmer.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, investigators had taken her bike to the state police crime lab in Springfield, but unfortunately, there were no fingerprints, no blood, no fibers. There was absolutely nothing that could point them to someone who would have hurt her. Then on October 5th, America's Most Wanted aired a segment about Jessica Roach. However, none of the tips that came in led to her whereabouts.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
but it wouldn't be long until they would find her it was november 8 1993 a farmer in perrysville indiana was harvesting a cornfield when he saw a disturbance up ahead at first he thought it was a deer carcass so he hopped off his machine to take a closer look however as he walked up he immediately knew that this was no animal
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
It was a human, a young female who was nude and, disturbingly, she had been decapitated, with her head lying a few feet away from her body. Horrified, the farmer immediately went to call 911. Now, keep in mind, the body was found in Indiana, but Jessica had gone missing in Illinois. However, the towns were only about 25 minutes away from one another.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So investigators in Indiana were well aware about the missing young girl in the town over, and although they couldn't immediately tell because of decomposition, they feared that it was Jessica Roach. Soon after the discovery of the body, her family was notified, and they waited in agony as it was taken to the medical examiner.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, during the exam, they learned that the body had been out in the elements for about two months, so right around the time that Jessica went missing. They also learned that her decapitation had been after her death, and it could have even occurred from a farmer accidentally driving over her during their harvest. But in terms of how the victim died, they couldn't really tell.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Robert Hall was also known to be a heavy drinker with a volatile temper. and as the twins grew up, they were subjected to his abuse. It was later reported that Larry, who was the more shy and sickly of the two, would often just lower his head in fear every time his dad would lash out on him, something author Christopher Hockley Martin described as his submissive pose.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But they did know that she had fractured her jaw shortly before her death, possibly from someone punching her, which Larry Hall was known to do to subdue his victims. But days later, they would finally make a positive identification. The body out in the cornfields of Indiana was indeed 15-year-old Jessica Roach.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And because her body had been taken across state lines, the case was now in the hands of the FBI.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
About five months later, on May 29th, 1994, Larry Hall decided to return to Perrysville, Indiana, the very town where he had dumped Jessica Roach's body. And that's when he spotted another young girl rollerblading in the street near her home. Her name was Amy Baker. Upon seeing her, Gary drove past slowly, but he wanted to get a better look. So... he turned the van around.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now Amy actually lived near the cornfields where Jessica's body had been dumped. And for Larry, this scenario felt all too familiar. A young girl all alone along a rural street. So he drove past her once again. Amy was well aware of her surroundings, And when she saw the dark van pass her the second time, she immediately knew that something was wrong. Then she noticed him drive up once more.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And this time he slowed the van down, getting far too close for comfort. So Amy started roller bleeding down the street as fast as she possibly could. But every time she looked behind her, there he was, following in his van, watching her every move. By this point, he had been driving up and down this road following her for around 10 minutes, so Amy knew that she was in danger.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So much so, she even took her roller skates off thinking she might have to use them to defend herself. But luckily for her, in that very moment, she saw another car coming down the road. She flagged them down and they stopped. She quickly jumped into their car and asked if they could bring her home. And they agreed. And in that moment, the dark van sped off. Amy was really shaken up.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
She told the Good Samaritan about the man following her and his description, dark bushy hair, and mutton chop sideburns. When the driver took her home, Amy immediately ran inside and locked her doors. But to her horror, when she peeked out of her window, there was that creepy van once again driving down the road. So Amy actually wrote down the details of the man and his vehicle.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In addition, the Hall home, which was located on the cemetery grounds, was not an ideal place for children. As it turns out, Robert and Bernice were hoarders. According to people who knew the family, they had stuff piled up all the way to the ceilings in nearly every room of their house.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Finally, they knew the identity of the man who had been stalking young women in the area. His name was Larry Hall. So they put a bee on the lookout for his vehicle and it wouldn't take them long to find him. In fact, the very next day, Larry's van was spotted in Gas City, Indiana. Officer Neil Pence was the one to pull him over.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After Larry rolled down his window, Officer Pence told him that he was going to have to search his vehicle. And Larry seemed nervous. He had every right to be. Because as soon as Officer Pence opened up the van, he saw what could only be described as a murder van. There were ropes, knives, plastic tarps, and masks. But the most concerning thing of all were the newspaper articles.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Right there on the front page was the name Trisha Reitler, the young college student that went missing the year prior. In addition to this newspaper, he also had a piece of stationery with Trisha's name on it. But sadly, even after these findings, they still didn't have enough evidence to connect him to her murder. So they let him go.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
We were walking in the grass near the softball field. I was 11 at the time and it was creepy the way he drove up beside us and just kept following along. The truck was only moving as fast as we were walking. It just sort of made the hair on the back of your neck stand up. You know there's something wrong with this guy. We started to get scared and we ran out of the park down Hill Street.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
and then up Thorn Street toward West Ward School. He was following us and when we got to Ashley's house, her mother yelled at the man and he gunned the van out of there.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Once back at the police station, Detective Phil Amonis and Detective Jeff Whitmer stepped into an interrogation room. And like many of these interrogations, they started by getting to know Larry. They learned that he participated in Civil War reenactments and that he often traveled around the Midwest to perform in them.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But after a bit of small talk, they started getting into the real questions, specifically about Larry's stalking habits. And surprisingly, Larry started to open up. He told the detectives that every once in a while, when he would be driving down the road, he would slip into these dreamlike states. And the things that would happen during these episodes, well, Larry had a hard time remembering them.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He said he would come to and he would be sitting in his van, confused. When he would look around him, there would be strange items lying nearby. Sometimes he would find women's underwear, car keys, a young girl's bra, but he said he could never remember where they came from. Disturbed, he said he always threw the items away and went on as if nothing happened.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, following this, the detectives knew that this was a disturbed individual. In fact, after this interview, they even set him up with a therapist. And during Larry's appointment with this therapist, he talked to them about his violent dreams, the ones where he would rape, and murder women.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After their session, the therapist believed that he suffered from adult antisocial behavior and dream anxiety disorder. Author Christopher Hawley Martin stated, quote, the doctor reported that Hall was a severely disturbed man with grossly distorted thinking and depersonalized states. But despite these shocking details, Larry was once again allowed to go free.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But in the end, one side will celebrate their victory However, once the battle is over, there are dead soldiers everywhere, men who fought for what they believed in. But if you look a bit further than that, you'll see a crowd of people in awe. Some even have their phones out, taking videos of the battle before them. Because in reality, this is not an actual war, but a Civil War reenactment.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
These dreams that he described weren't necessarily evidence that he was a killer. And although they knew he was disturbed, they didn't have enough to place him under arrest. So once again, he was a free man. And soon enough, he would be back on the streets to look for his next victim.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On July 24th, 1994, 13 year old Natasha Crockett and her younger sister, 10 year old Nicole, were outside playing across the street from their home. at 416 10th Street in Logansport, Indiana. As they ran around a parking lot across the street, the girls noticed an odd van watching them. He was parked a little bit away, but the girls could see that he was riding something down.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Then, a few minutes later, the girls saw the van driving in their direction. Do you girls know where Woodlawn Street is? He asked them, but the girls had no idea. Oh, well, that's okay. Do y'all want to hop in and take a drive? He asked. But immediately, the girls knew that this man was trouble, so they both ran home to tell their parents.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
When the twins reached elementary school, Gary proved himself to be an excellent student. He was intelligent, a hard worker, and he had a lot of friends. But Larry was a completely different story. He really struggled. Not only was his IQ around 80, but he was very antisocial and anxious, and he had a hard time making friends. He also had a speech impediment.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
A few months later, on October 22nd, 1994, Nicole Brucker was celebrating her 14th birthday at her home in Georgetown, Indiana. Later that evening, Nicole and her friend, 14-year-old Danielle Mullins, decided to walk to the store. But as they made their way down Walnut Street, they suddenly heard a car pull up behind them.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
When the girls turned around, it was a dark van, and the man inside was someone they didn't recognize. He quickly pulled up beside the girls and asked if they wanted a ride, but they refused and continued walking. However, instead of leaving the girls alone, the man kept following them.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Eventually, the girls started running, and they finally made their way back home where they told their parents about what happened. From there, they called the police and gave them a description of the man and his vehicle, and surprise, surprise, it was none other than Larry Hall. Within six short months, 11 different girls around the Midwest had reported that Larry's van had been stalking them.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And several of these girls had even written down his license plate. So his crimes were gaining some attention. And remember those detectives from Larry's hometown? The one who set him up with that therapist? Well, after Larry Hall had been set free, they couldn't seem to get him off their minds. Larry had admitted that he had these dark and violent dreams of hurting young women.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
but they had to let him go. However, months later, Sergeant Jeff Whitmer received a random fax from a detective in Georgetown. His name was Gary Miller, and he had worked the unsolved murder of Jessica Roach, the girl who was found murdered after her bike went missing in the middle of the road.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, Gary Miller had seen that Larry Hall had been involved in these two attempted kidnappings, and he was beginning to wonder if he could have been responsible for Jessica's murder. Now, when Jeff Whitmer received this fax, he knew that they were onto something, and he and Gary Miller quickly connected.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
When they finally talked on the phone, one of the first things he asked Gary was, quote, "'Is there a military reenactment in Georgetown?' To which Gary said, "'Yes.'" As it turns out, there had been a Revolutionary War reenactment on September 19th, 1993 in Forest Glen Park, which was the day before Jessica went missing.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And the location of the reenactment was only five miles away from where Jessica went missing. So immediately, the detectives knew that they were onto something. Detective Gary Miller believed that they were finally about to find Jessica's killer. Now following this, Word got around that Larry Hall was a suspect in these abductions and murders of young women around Indiana and Illinois.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And the detectives who worked Trisha Reitler's murder, the girl who went missing from campus, began to wonder if he was responsible for her disappearance as well. So from here, all of these detectives started working together. On November 2nd, 1994, they all met up at the Wabash Police Department. where they would finally get to interview Larry Hall.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So while his twin brother Gary was considered popular, Larry was picked on. Kids would call him stupid and worthless, and he was known around school as the quote, stinky kid. And sadly, his life at home wasn't much easier. You see, Larry struggled with bedwetting, something that followed him into his preteen years. According to his family, he would have these nightmares.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Inside of the interrogation room, detectives took turns questioning him. At first, they noticed he was very soft-spoken and polite, but when they asked about his van being connected and two attempted abductions, Larry started to get nervous. At first, he denied being involved, but the detectives had him backed into a corner. They wrote down your license plate, Larry. How do you explain that?
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
They asked. Larry became visibly agitated, saying, quote, Well, if I did talk to those girls, it was only because I was trying to be polite. I wasn't trying to kidnap them. But the detectives started to turn up the heat. They could tell that Larry was an insecure man, that he wasn't comfortable around women. So Detective Gary Miller decided to take advantage of that.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Do girls ever laugh at you, Larry? He asked. Immediately, something was triggered within him. Larry became angry. The detective then placed a picture in front of him. It was a 15-year-old Jessica Roach. Do you recognize this girl? He asked. But after one quick glance, Larry pushed his chair back and looked away. He couldn't bring himself to look at the picture.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Throughout the remainder of the interview, Larry denied any involvement in the disappearance of Trisha Reitler. He also denied murdering Jessica Roach, but his entire tone would change when the FBI got involved. As mentioned earlier, Jessica Roach had been abducted in Illinois and dumped in Indiana. so she already had FBI agents working her case.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And for whatever reason, when they spoke with Larry Hull, he finally confessed to the murder of Jessica Roach. Special Agent Michael Randolph was the one who took his confession, and it read the following.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In that last sentence, Larry Hall talked about his journals where he wrote down notes about the girls he stalked. The police would later find some of these notes with victims' names written on them. Now, disturbingly, Larry also added another detail to his confession. He said that while he was murdering Jessica Roach,
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
she cried for her mother something that made him angry he also said that when he was murdering her he made sure to do it against a tree so he didn't have to look at her face which is something he would do when he murdered women he would later say quote i can't see their faces but i can hear their screams end quote
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And when he would wake up from them, he would find himself soiled in his own urine. And instead of getting help, his parents punished him anytime it happened. Now their father, Robert Hall, was very strict, but so was their mother, Bernice. She was known to be just as ruthless as her husband. So Larry Hall didn't really have a safe space.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And in this next part, he also confesses to the murder of Tricia Reitler, the college student who he attacked. The confession continues with the following.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now later on, Larry would actually lead detectives to the location of where he left Trisha's body. But sadly, when they went there, Trisha wasn't there. And to this day, her body has never been found. But Jessica and Trisha weren't the only murders that Larry confessed to. In his confession, he continued by saying the following.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So as you just heard, Larry Hall was coming clean about everything. He had been victimizing young women in these Midwestern towns for years. And unfortunately, he claimed he couldn't remember a lot of the details surrounding the murders. So the FBI had the daunting task of trying to figure out which murders were the work of Larry Hall.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So from here, investigators had a big problem on their hands. At the end of the day, they didn't have any physical evidence linking Larry to the murders, just his confession that he recanted. Now investigators did get a search warrant for his van, and inside, they found newspaper clippings from Jessica Roach's murder and from Trisha Reitler's disappearance.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Under the carpet of his van, they also discovered cryptic notes that he would write himself, notes that would keep him out of trouble. They read things like, Other notes read, quote, seen joggers and bikers, many alone, check colleges, parks, seen some prospects. In other journal entries, he wrote to-do lists that read, quote,
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
His home life wasn't easy, school was difficult, and he didn't have any friends, aside from his brother. In fact, throughout his life, his twin brother Gary was really the only person he could rely on. Now growing up, Larry and Gary spent a lot of their childhood in the graveyard. That was their playground. They would play hide and seek, hiding behind tombstones.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Get van ready, put curtains and windows, change license plate, buy two more plastic tarps, cover all floors and sides of van. Disturbingly, they also found a pornographic picture. Now the picture was not of Jessica Roach, but it had her name on it. He also altered the picture. He had drawn a rope around her neck and he colored some blood coming out of the girl's mouth.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, when his van was searched, investigators weren't able to find anything that could link him to their victims. No DNA, no fingerprints, blood, hair, clothing fibers, nothing. But based on Larry's to-do lists, it seemed as though he was meticulous about cleaning up after his crimes.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In February of 1996, Larry's attorney, Craig H. DeArmond, argued for a new trial. You see, during Jessica Roach's trial, some of Larry's other crimes had been mentioned. And because of that, his defense didn't think he had a fair trial. So in August of 1998, he was granted a new one. Jessica's family thought their nightmare was over, but... It wasn't.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And they had to go through the entire process again. This time around, Larry's attorney really hammered down on the fact that he had given a false confession. According to him, Larry wasn't an actual killer. He was a wannabe killer. He wanted to feel important. He wanted attention. So he confessed.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
They also brought forward a clinical psychologist who told the jury that Larry suffered from multiple personality disorders and he had a low IQ of 80, and that those qualities could make him susceptible to a false confession. His attorneys also focused on the fact that there was no evidence linking him to the crime and that the items found in his van were merely circumstantial.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But remember that eyewitness, Monty Cox? Well, he testified that Larry Hall was indeed the man he saw emerging from that cornfield on the night of Jessica's disappearance. and he was confident that it was Larry. After all, Larry had a very distinct look due to his bushy sideburns.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And this next part wasn't mentioned at trial, but all of the girls who had escaped Larry Hall recalled that same thing, his dark fan and his bushy sideburns. To investigators in the prosecution, they knew that they had the right guy, but it wasn't up to them. It was up to the jury. And after four hours of deliberation, they once again found Larry Hall guilty.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
and they would watch their father spend hours digging up graves for people in their community. In the winter, the boys would sled down the embankment in their backyard, and in the summer they would catch minnows in the nearby creek. They were two Midwestern boys with big imaginations.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Finally, after five long years, Jessica's family could put this nightmare behind them and do their best to heal. Patricia Reitler's family was still in the midst of their nightmare. After she had been abducted near her university, they never got any answers. They never got to bring her home.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry Hall had confessed to killing Trisha, and he even told investigators where he had dumped her body, but then he recanted, and Trisha's body wasn't where he said it would be. Now, to some people, this meant that Larry wasn't actually her killer, but Trisha's family still believed that he was involved, and so did investigators. So they hatched a plan.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
They were going to find a confidential informant, someone that would befriend Larry in prison. And hopefully through that friendship, Larry would confess about his other crimes.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, their father would always tell them that they were part Native American, and they were always very interested in their heritage. When they would run around outside, they would look for arrowheads, and they would transport themselves back in time, pretending that the cemetery was their village and that they were Native American war chiefs.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Each time that Jimmy hung out with Larry, he got to know a little bit more about him, about his childhood, his interests, and his life in Indiana. Then one day, Larry asked Jimmy if he wanted to watch America's Most Wanted with him. It was one of Larry's favorite shows, and apparently they played it in prison.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So that day, Jimmy watched it, and he couldn't help but notice how fascinated Larry became. He would later say, quote, "'It was like Larry was in his own little world.'" That screen was all he could see. Eventually, watching America's Most Wanted became a part of their routine. Every Saturday night, the baby killers would get together and turn it on.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But on one of these occasions, one of the inmates didn't want to watch it, so they stood up and turned it off. Jimmy said that he heard Larry mumble something under his breath, something along the lines of... I was watching that. So Jimmy decided that this was his opportunity to gain Larry's trust. He quickly stood up, pushed the chairs aside in front of him, and clicked the television back on.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
These times were arguably some of the best of Larry's childhood. He loved to play pretend, to put himself in a time period hundreds of years back and take on the role of someone else, which is a hobby that he would carry on into his adulthood.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And from there, he started a fight with the inmate who turned it off. Now Jimmy would end up getting in some trouble for this scuffle, but it was worth it. Because in Larry Hall's mind, Jimmy had stuck up for him. He was his friend. A friend that he trusted.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry said that once Jessica came to, she started crying for her mom. But Larry didn't like that, so he forced her out of the van and made her sit against a tree. Jimmy admitted, quote, he showed me with his fingers how he would interlock the two leather belts. He then got behind the tree so he wouldn't have to see her face.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He whipped the belts around her neck and used a stick to twist them like a tourniquet. and kept turning and turning until he didn't hear her make another sound." At last, Jimmy had finally heard a confession, but it wasn't enough. Larry had already been convicted of Jessica's murder. Jimmy needed to hear the details of Trisha Reitler's murder if he wanted to get out of prison early.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So he let a few weeks pass, not wanting to raise any suspicion. And then finally, when the time was right, he asked him, Whatever happened to that Reitler girl?" And once again, Larry opened up. He told Jimmy that on the night in question, he had approached Trisha as she was leaving the grocery store. Now, once again, Larry lied, saying that Trisha willingly got into his van. Like with Jessica,
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He said that everything was going fine until he made a move on her, and once he did that, Larry said that Trisha started screaming, kicking, and punching him. So from there, he wrapped his hands around her neck to make her stop. But he said that once the violence started, he blacked out again, going into that dreamlike state.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And when he came to, he and Trisha were both naked in the back of his van. However, by then, Trisha was unconscious, and when he went to check for a pulse, there was none. So not knowing what to do, he drove back home to Wabash, leaving Trisha's dead body in the back of the van. According to Larry, he buried her that night, somewhere far out in the country.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And to conceal her body even further, he said he used a bag of lime.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
This case is a frustrating one with so many unanswered questions. Then, to add even more mystery, in 2010, an Indianapolis cold case investigator met with Larry. They had suspected him in some other murders around Indiana. and they wanted to ask him some questions.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And to their surprise, when they sat down with Larry Hall, he confessed to 14 other murders that took place in the states of Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, California, Colorado, Missouri, and Wyoming. At that moment, investigators believed that they were finally going to get some answers in these cold cases. However, of course, Larry would later recant these confessions.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So technically, in the eyes of the law, Larry Hall has only been convicted of kidnapping Jessica Roach in 1993. However, many people believe that he has many more victims. His own twin brother, Gary Hall, even told CNN that he has no doubt in his mind that Larry is a serial killer.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In 2011, Larry himself actually spoke to the Associated Press where he admitted that he had abducted 39 women from 1980 to 1994. But because he committed these crimes while he was quote unquote blacked out, And in this dreamlike state, he can't recall many details. Now, if that's true, then that makes him one of the most deadly serial killers in America.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
However, there are other people out there who believe that Larry Hall is all talk. that he exaggerated the amount of victims he had because of his own insecurities. But one thing we know for sure, no matter how many victims he had, Larry Hall was weak. He would spend his weekends partaking in these Civil War reenactments, pretending to kill soldiers on a field in front of an audience.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
It seemed to have given him this dark confidence, something he didn't possess in his real life. Then, after the battle was over, he'd take off his uniform and he'd wreak havoc on whatever town he was in. However, unlike the soldiers on the field, his victims were young girls. They were much smaller than him, they were vulnerable, and they didn't have weapons to fight back.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
When the twins reached high school, Larry watched as his brother was able to smoothly talk to women. Gary had no problems getting girlfriends. But no girls ever seemed to be interested in Larry, which was frustrating for him. He wanted a girlfriend, but they didn't want him.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In fact, Larry would later say that girls would often laugh at him, something that ignited a rage within him, something that angered him to his core. And it's around this time when Larry started channeling this rejection into something sinister. He began stalking girls at his high school. Larry would drive around town for hours looking for girls. And he had a type.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He liked athletic girls with shoulder-length brown hair. When he would find one that he was sexually attracted to, he would secretly follow her while fantasizing about what he wanted to do with her. But during these stalking moments, he was also faced with an infuriating reality. As much as he wanted these girls, he knew that they would never want him back.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So all of these sexual fantasies were just that, fantasies.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Every year, hundreds of men get together on these old battlefields, and they will put on performances replicating what these battles actually looked like back in the day. They will put on their uniforms, either for the Union or Confederacy, they will grab their fake muskets and rifles, and they will march around for the crowd, pretending to kill each other.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
By the age of 18, Larry was well on his way to becoming a criminal. He was a burglar, vandal, and arsonist, but he was still able to graduate from high school in 1981. However, things were really difficult for the Hall family around this time. Robert Hall, their father, had actually been fired from his gravedigging position after working there for decades.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Apparently, Robert's alcoholism had gotten really bad, so much so it started to affect his job. It was reported that he even put people in the wrong graves on several occasions. So from there, Robert was fired and their family was forced to move out of their home. Now by this point, Gary was actually doing really well for himself.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After graduation, he moved out of his parents' house, got a good paying job, and he even had a serious girlfriend. But Larry was still struggling. After his twin brother moved out, he was now living with his parents all by himself, enduring the brunt of his father's abuse.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry also didn't really know what he wanted to do with his life, so he ended up finding work as a janitor, cleaning for various businesses around town. But he was still feeling unfulfilled. However, something that brought a little excitement into his life was car shows.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He had been known to travel around the Midwest visiting these shows in the early 80s, and it's believed that during one of these car shows, he participated in another hobby of his, stalking women. Now, the case we are about to mention is of 19-year-old Naomi Lee Kidder, who went missing in Buffalo, Wyoming in June of 1982.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
At the time, Larry Hall would have been just 19 years old, but some people suspect him of Naomi's murder. And that's because years down the road, when investigators would search through Larry's things, they found a notebook of his. And as they flipped through the pages, there was her name, Naomi Lee Kidder.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, Naomi went missing in Wyoming, which is pretty far away from Indiana, but it's believed that Larry was possibly visiting a car show over there when he decided to take a drive through town. It was June 28th, 1982. Naomi had just left her home in Buffalo to go on a road trip with some friends. Eventually, the group ended up about 150 miles away in the town of Rawlins. That night,
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
they decided to pull over and stay at a Travelodge hotel. However, by that next morning, Naomi told her friends to go on without her. Now, the details around this are still a little unclear, but for whatever reason, Naomi decided that she was going to hitchhike. However, she would never make it. For the next few months, no one had seen or heard from her. That is until September 10th, 1982.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, for the men who sign up to be a part of this, They get to travel the country and escape their reality for a while, stepping into an important time in our country's history. While they are on that battlefield, they're no longer a modern-day citizen, but a soldier. A soldier who doesn't actually have to kill anyone. They just pretend to.