Cornel West
Appearances
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
Absolutely. I think that Brother Robbie and I view ourselves as being part and parcel of great traditions, the Socratic legacies of Athens, where we try to muster the courage to think critically for ourselves, to examine ourselves, examine our society and world, do it in the spirit of intellectual humility, but also tenacity.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
So we're in pursuit of the truth, but also the prophetic legacy of Jerusalem, the courage to love. And because justice is what love looks like in public, to actually be justice seekers. But we recognize that truth, capital T, and justice, capital J, they're bigger than any of us, any of our groups, our tribes, our nations, our races, our genders, our sexual orientations.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
So we have a certain sense of acknowledging we're both fallible, but we do believe that we've got to get beyond any kind of narrow relativism and any kind of sense of not being deeply concerned about courage, courage, courage to think, courage to love.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
Yes, I would just add that I think we're living in a moment of such spiritual decay and moral decrepitude. What is not just polarization, what is gangsterization, obsession with the 11th commandment, thou shall not get caught, rather than the 10. And so Robbie and I are simply trying to make the case that integrity
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
honesty, decency ought to be at the center of our sense of what it is to have civic virtue. And civic virtue is about public interest in common good. That, again, like Robbie says, goes beyond tribe, goes beyond region, race, gender, or what have you. It's something profoundly human. And we are missing that in this moment.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
And as you know, I actually ran for president, so I have a particular kind of bias here. But it has to do with the lens through which I look at the world. You see, as a Christian and a black freedom fighter, I look at the world through the lens of morality and spirituality. And what I saw was corruption in both parties.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
mendacity in both parties, hypocrisy in both parties, big money playing a disproportionate role in both parties. And I'm concerned about the moral quality and the spiritual content of our citizenry. And if they're feeling cynical, if they're feeling nihilistic, if they're feeling as if they're choosing Thrasymachus over Socrates, might makes right rather than right having its own gravitas.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
then it means we're sliding down a slope toward chaos in terms of both our society and culture as a whole.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
I mean, as a Christian, I'm always tied to ways of spiritual awakening, which have to do with how do we get beyond our egoism and narrow tribalism and be tied to a love with the blood at the bottom of a cross that can transform our lives so we recognize the ways in which we are all connected.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
human beings made in image and likeness of an almighty and loving God and therefore have a fundamental commitment to the least of these.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
Now, I would want to fight for the rights for my Muslim brothers and sisters, my Jewish brothers and sisters, my Buddhist brothers and sisters, my agnostic and atheistic brothers and sisters, because in a democracy, I want them all in the language of Walt Whitman, to be able to enter public space without humiliation and engage in dialogue.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
Absolutely. Thank you so very much for having us. Yeah, thank you, Georgia.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
I fight for people's right to be wrong, theologically and politically, and I do not believe in imposing my Christian views. I argue in that public square and try to make a case, but I don't want to be authoritarian. I don't want to be in any way coercive in that sense.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
I'm not sure that unity is the goal here. I think that in any society, what you really want is to have citizens who cultivate enough character and integrity that they can learn how to disagree with respect. for each other. And with that kind of respect, they're still able to live together even as they disagree and therefore will not generate any kind of species unity.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
And so I think there's a need for a profound moral renaissance and spiritual awakening that gets us beyond the hatred and the greed and that sense of putting each other down, personal attack. What's so wonderful about Brother Robbie and myself is that even though we have deep political and ideological disagreements, I rebel in his humanity, he rebels in mine.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
We recognize that we're seeking a truth and a justice that's bigger than ourselves. And we're able, therefore, to not so much reach a unity, but reach a respect for each other in our common humanity.
Morning Wire
Truth Over Tribe: An Interview with Cornel West & Robert George | 3.15.25
We deeply appreciate you taking this time with us.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
No, I mean, unfortunately, it isn't what it ought to be, my brother, that every university in any historical moment has its own forms of orthodoxy and dogmatism. And you can have a dogmatism of the right, a dogmatism of the center, a dogmatism of the left. Robbie and I are committed to Socratic energy. We don't believe in safe spaces in universities.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
When you enter a space, you ought to be unsettled and unnerved and unearthed. You ought to be willing to be critical and self-critical, just like when you have a conversation with the other brothers and sisters. They need to be unsettled and they need to unsettle you. Mediate it with respect, though. Mediate it with respect. And we don't have that.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Unfortunately, the way we ought in our universities, as you know, I'm in the situation. I got pushed out of Harvard myself because of my commitment to the Palestinian cause, not because I'm anti-Semitic. I love my Jewish brothers and sisters. But as a Christian, I want a Palestinian baby to have the exact value as any other baby, Israeli, black, white, red, whatever.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world, red or yellow, black or white. They are precious in his sight. I believe that literally. And therefore, I don't want any kind of orthodoxy of a left, right or whatever. We want Socratic action mediated with respect. But then as Christians, you know, we got something that the world believes is foolish and absurd.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
We're going to love everybody, beginning especially with the least of these. That's what the biblical text says to me. And I believe it.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Well, first, I want to just thank you for having both of us. God bless you and your precious family. But no, we're fundamentally committed to a pursuit of truth. We recognize that we're cracked vessels, we're fallible and fallen. But truth is bigger than all of us, just like beauty is, just like God is, just like goodness is.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Oh, no, no. I hear what you're saying, brother. But keep in mind what we mean by truth here, though, that, yes, the pursuit of truth ought to be central. But truth is a species of the good in the sense that the way to truth requires trust, integrity, humility, openness and respect for others saying what they say, even when you radically disagree.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
So truth is not some abstraction that you're just trying to grab. It requires a process so that character formation, what I'd call soul craft, that's old language going back to medieval times, right? Your soul has to be shaped in such a way that you have an integrity, honesty, decency, so that your quest for truth is a genuine one, not just a rationalization of your own opinions and dogma.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
and to be able to spend these 20 years with my dear, dear brother, Ravi, though I have a deep love of my brother. Love is not reducible to politics, and brotherhood and friendship is not reducible to being correct on political issues. I think brother Ravi's wrong on a whole host of things. He thinks I'm wrong on a whole host of things, but I can revel in his humanity.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
That's crystallized in this way. I've been collaborating with my brother for 20 years. I'm telling you so that it depends on what form. Very, very much so. But certainly this text is a kind of crystallization because we've been on chocolate sides, vanilla sides of cities. We've been among the well-to-do, the working classes. We've been in Catholic churches. We've been in Baptist churches.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
We're just trying to bear witness, Brother Charlie. We're trying to bear witness.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
I don't know if that would have killed a lot of my vote. He's taking a lot of grief for that. Most of them came from non-voters, but don't go there.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
I think we have narrow ideological lens and we're not willing to learn from a variety of perspectives. Lift every voice is the very anthem of black folk. When you lift every voice, you're like a jazz woman or a blues man. You're willing to go beyond being an echo and become a a voice. You know, you all were talking about Hillsdale College.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
I just want to shout out my dear brother Bradley Burtzer and his magisterial text on Russell Kirk as well as Christopher Dawson. Never met him. Learned much from him. Why? He's lifting his voice. I'm lifting my voice. We're bouncing off against each other. Never met him in the flesh. But why? Because we're involved in the quest for truth.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Because love is the most profound force. in human life and in human history. And the last thing you ever want to do is to truncate any kind of flow of love because of a political or ideological issue. When you sit down at Thanksgiving around your family, with your mama and grandmother and aunts and uncles.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
And I can take seriously the counter arguments he has against me. I think it cuts deeper than civility, though, Charlie. It's really a matter of humanity. And it also has much to do with what it means to be a follower of Jesus of Nazareth. We can get into that later.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Keep the love flowing, even though you might have political differences, because love is the fruit of the red, produces the fruit of the red joy that will help sustain you in your move from mama's womb to tomb.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Brother Robbie pushes me against the wall and makes me come up with specific ways in which markets themselves may have virtues that I may have downplayed. And I push him against the wall and he begins to see the crucial role of government and the need to balance. But fundamentally, see, Robbie and I are abolitionists. In terms of we want the abolition of poverty.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
We want the abolition of cowardliness. We want the abolition of dogmatism, the abolition of tribalism. We know it will never happen because human beings are human beings, but we can fight against it. Philosophically, I thought that Vico was the greatest Italian philosopher in the history of all time. He's convinced me now that Aquinas is.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
I've always had a great appreciation of Aquinas, but what does that mean? Well, Robbie is a Catholic and I'm very much a hang loose Baptist. And therefore I had to have an appreciation. of the Catholic traditions. And we've struggled over claims about faith and grace and what have you. So it's philosophical, it's theological, and it's political.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
On abortion, for example, we've had sustained discussions and debates on abortion. And he pushes me against the wall and I try to push him against the wall in a loving way. We just want to make sure that we are true to the Imago Dei each day.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
precious human being made in the image of a loving and almighty God and therefore have a certain sanctity and dignity that the world didn't give them and the world can't take away. We take very seriously that Christian practice and our Christian faith.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
And therefore, when we talk about gays and lesbians or trans or what have you, it's not out of hate, even as we have disagreements in terms of what kind of practices ought to be enacted. That's the crucial thing that I love about Robbie. He says what he means, means what he says, and he's got an integrity. He's got a compassion. And that makes a difference, my brother, Charlie.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Yes, powerful question though, brother. There's truth, capital T, that none of us have access to, and there's truth, small t's that we have access to, but we have to recognize we could be wrong. And he claims we put forward a fallacy. Now, as a Christian, you know, I believe that Jesus Christ
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
is the truth, the fleshification, the concretization of truth, and that is in the form of a love that has the capacity to transform who we are. So I'll make a radical distinction between love of power versus power of truth. But the truth itself, capital T, none of us have access to. We look through a... that lends darkly. So we have to have a humility.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
The way to truth requires humility, maturity, but endless quest for truth, making sense of the world and hooking up with reality. So you can imagine, we could have a whole seminar on that question, what is truth? But that's just the beginning of an answer, my dear brother.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
Oh, oh, absolutely. Because they believe that that relativistic claim itself is true.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
And you tell them when they die, their death is itself a reality. That is true. There's coming a time when they die. That's a fundamental truth they cannot deny. So in that sense, there's a contradiction for them to be relativistic. Contextual is different than relativistic because we all have a context. That's why we are fallen and fallible.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Truth Matters ft. Robert George and Cornel West
And that's why we're crack vessels trying to love our crooked neighbors with our crooked hearts. But the humility and the maturity is crucial. And that's what I think Ravi and I... Always stress humility, maturity, fallibility, openness, and might never makes right, even though might is always seemingly in the driver's seat.
The Dan Bongino Show
Producer's Picks: Bongino's Best Segments - 01/03/25
Well, they offered serious, substantive conversation about all of those that could lead toward some real possible... You know what I mean?