Christopher Mims

We run out in two weeks. In a fight with China.

We run out in two weeks. In a fight with China.

Okay, but and we have a new Secretary of Defense and Pete Hegseth, he recently said, I'm quoting here, we have some really fast moving newer contractors that are willing to work that have already put a lot of money into R&D that want to help us rapidly field these new systems that we're going to need for fights in the future.

Okay, but and we have a new Secretary of Defense and Pete Hegseth, he recently said, I'm quoting here, we have some really fast moving newer contractors that are willing to work that have already put a lot of money into R&D that want to help us rapidly field these new systems that we're going to need for fights in the future.

Defense spending is, you know, at this point, given the push toward efficiency is zero sum game. That feels like he's talking about you, some of these other drone makers you just mentioned. I mean, do you see this as a good sign for Andrel, number one?

Defense spending is, you know, at this point, given the push toward efficiency is zero sum game. That feels like he's talking about you, some of these other drone makers you just mentioned. I mean, do you see this as a good sign for Andrel, number one?

And number two, how can we realize the dream that you just articulated in a world where we're trying to shrink budgets, even the defense budget, it sounds like, or they're looking for efficiencies?

And number two, how can we realize the dream that you just articulated in a world where we're trying to shrink budgets, even the defense budget, it sounds like, or they're looking for efficiencies?

Do you think that means that Doge is going to go into the DoD like they have with other agencies? Oh, I don't think they'll have to.

Do you think that means that Doge is going to go into the DoD like they have with other agencies? Oh, I don't think they'll have to.

Oh, so you think they'll let them in and just kind of immediately give them root?

Oh, so you think they'll let them in and just kind of immediately give them root?

Lucky sounds like he's on the same page as Elon Musk when it comes to cutting government spending and doing things differently. But how close are they? What's your last text message? Let me see. Let me check. What did I last say? Just ahead, more about that chat. And what Lucky says his Silicon Valley colleagues changing their views on Trump has in common with songstress Patti LaBelle.

Lucky sounds like he's on the same page as Elon Musk when it comes to cutting government spending and doing things differently. But how close are they? What's your last text message? Let me see. Let me check. What did I last say? Just ahead, more about that chat. And what Lucky says his Silicon Valley colleagues changing their views on Trump has in common with songstress Patti LaBelle.

Stay with us.

Stay with us.

Let me ask you a question about the so-called tech right, because mentioning Musk, I feel like y'all are sort of all members or honorary members. It does feel, especially in light of what you just said, like that is maybe a bigger tent in some ways than kind of other political subgroups in Silicon Valley have been in the past. I mean, do you agree with that?

Let me ask you a question about the so-called tech right, because mentioning Musk, I feel like y'all are sort of all members or honorary members. It does feel, especially in light of what you just said, like that is maybe a bigger tent in some ways than kind of other political subgroups in Silicon Valley have been in the past. I mean, do you agree with that?

Anduril's latest deal is taking over a massive contract Microsoft had with the Army to create what's called the Integrated Visual Augmentation System, or IVAS. It's a virtual reality headset designed for the battlefield that could give soldiers direct information from sensors and control of unmanned weaponry. This brings Lucky full circle to how he got his start years earlier with Oculus VR.

Anduril's latest deal is taking over a massive contract Microsoft had with the Army to create what's called the Integrated Visual Augmentation System, or IVAS. It's a virtual reality headset designed for the battlefield that could give soldiers direct information from sensors and control of unmanned weaponry. This brings Lucky full circle to how he got his start years earlier with Oculus VR.

Do you think that there's kind of a loose camaraderie there that keeps it together?

Do you think that there's kind of a loose camaraderie there that keeps it together?

And that's bold names for this week. Michael LaValle and Jessica Fenton are our sound designers. Jessica also wrote our theme music.

And that's bold names for this week. Michael LaValle and Jessica Fenton are our sound designers. Jessica also wrote our theme music.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for listening.

His relationship with Facebook didn't last long. His support of Trump's first presidential run in 2016 didn't go over well in Silicon Valley. He was ousted after a donation he made to an anti-Hillary Clinton group sparked backlash among his colleagues, though his boss at the time, Mark Zuckerberg, would later tell Congress his departure didn't have anything to do with politics.

His relationship with Facebook didn't last long. His support of Trump's first presidential run in 2016 didn't go over well in Silicon Valley. He was ousted after a donation he made to an anti-Hillary Clinton group sparked backlash among his colleagues, though his boss at the time, Mark Zuckerberg, would later tell Congress his departure didn't have anything to do with politics.

Now, Zuckerberg is among the tech moguls hanging around President Trump, and Lucky feels vindicated.

Now, Zuckerberg is among the tech moguls hanging around President Trump, and Lucky feels vindicated.

From The Wall Street Journal, I'm Tim Higgins. And I'm Christopher Mims. This is Bold Names, where you'll hear from the leaders of the bold-named companies featured in the pages of The Wall Street Journal...

From The Wall Street Journal, I'm Tim Higgins. And I'm Christopher Mims. This is Bold Names, where you'll hear from the leaders of the bold-named companies featured in the pages of The Wall Street Journal...

So Microsoft's been, hi, by the way, Palmer. It's been a minute. It's been like five years. How's it going? But yeah, hey. So they've been leading this effort for a while, right? And I think they're going to stay on as a cloud providing partner. That's right. But why you and not them?

So Microsoft's been, hi, by the way, Palmer. It's been a minute. It's been like five years. How's it going? But yeah, hey. So they've been leading this effort for a while, right? And I think they're going to stay on as a cloud providing partner. That's right. But why you and not them?

So you're clearly very bullish on Meta. Are you still bullish on their potential in terms of the Metaverse? I mean, just to put this in context, I was saying something jokey on threads and Andrew Bosworth got mad at me for saying like, oh, like they've pivoted to AI. It seems like they're no longer the Metaverse company.

So you're clearly very bullish on Meta. Are you still bullish on their potential in terms of the Metaverse? I mean, just to put this in context, I was saying something jokey on threads and Andrew Bosworth got mad at me for saying like, oh, like they've pivoted to AI. It seems like they're no longer the Metaverse company.

Right. So they're clearly still invested. I mean, do you kind of... Are you still bullish on their vision? Because now they're really emphasizing AI. It does seem like a shift.

Right. So they're clearly still invested. I mean, do you kind of... Are you still bullish on their vision? Because now they're really emphasizing AI. It does seem like a shift.

Is that what is that going to replace or the F-35, for example, that replaced the Top Gun?

Is that what is that going to replace or the F-35, for example, that replaced the Top Gun?

So while we're talking about these autonomous flying drones, essentially, obviously those have been hugely important in Ukraine. I mean, a lot of these still are built in China. The U.S. has had trouble maintaining market share there. The Pentagon's trying to encourage U.S. manufacturing of these really low-cost autonomous munitions in a way.

So while we're talking about these autonomous flying drones, essentially, obviously those have been hugely important in Ukraine. I mean, a lot of these still are built in China. The U.S. has had trouble maintaining market share there. The Pentagon's trying to encourage U.S. manufacturing of these really low-cost autonomous munitions in a way.

Right. And sports betting is legal in 39 states now already.

Right. And sports betting is legal in 39 states now already.

That said, plenty of teens have said it's easy to circumvent those age verification controls. I mean, it wasn't hard to find op-eds in university newspapers that are talking about teens with problem gambling issues, especially on college campuses. For example, Purdue University has tried to ban everybody on campus from doing this kind of gambling.

That said, plenty of teens have said it's easy to circumvent those age verification controls. I mean, it wasn't hard to find op-eds in university newspapers that are talking about teens with problem gambling issues, especially on college campuses. For example, Purdue University has tried to ban everybody on campus from doing this kind of gambling.

It does kind of feel like your business, though, to get people on as soon as you can. And that does feel like the playbook of some other businesses in the past, I could name. So how important to your growth is getting people as soon as they're able to get on your app?

It does kind of feel like your business, though, to get people on as soon as you can. And that does feel like the playbook of some other businesses in the past, I could name. So how important to your growth is getting people as soon as they're able to get on your app?

And so are the consequences of getting millions of Americans hooked on gambling anytime, anywhere. That's next. For a lot of the companies we cover, first quarter is a bit of a lull. But if you're a gambler, there's no better time of the year. And if you're a sports betting company, it's also one of the busiest times of the year.

And so are the consequences of getting millions of Americans hooked on gambling anytime, anywhere. That's next. For a lot of the companies we cover, first quarter is a bit of a lull. But if you're a gambler, there's no better time of the year. And if you're a sports betting company, it's also one of the busiest times of the year.

The American Gaming Association estimated that Americans wagered about $1.4 billion on the Super Bowl this year. And then there was March Madness, which was twice that, $3.1 billion. There are a lot of different things to bet on these days, and making sure the house always wins is a huge technological problem for online sports betting giant Flutter and its CEO, Peter Jackson.

The American Gaming Association estimated that Americans wagered about $1.4 billion on the Super Bowl this year. And then there was March Madness, which was twice that, $3.1 billion. There are a lot of different things to bet on these days, and making sure the house always wins is a huge technological problem for online sports betting giant Flutter and its CEO, Peter Jackson.

a lot of what i'm hearing kind of as the subtext of what you're saying is you are the the the cleanest shirt in the laundry you talked about being you know part of the entertainment business um one of the things about the evolution of the entertainment business, of course, is that, is that, you know, it's so much of it's being delivered right through these.

a lot of what i'm hearing kind of as the subtext of what you're saying is you are the the the cleanest shirt in the laundry you talked about being you know part of the entertainment business um one of the things about the evolution of the entertainment business, of course, is that, is that, you know, it's so much of it's being delivered right through these.

I'm holding up my phone for those of you can't see it, which is everyone right now. Um, in some ways it's a more, potent delivery device, right? That's the flip side of it being accessible. And so, you know, there's this kind of growing literature on how we have to be careful because it's with us all the time, right? So psychiatrist Anna Lemke, she has this great book called Dopamine Nation.

I'm holding up my phone for those of you can't see it, which is everyone right now. Um, in some ways it's a more, potent delivery device, right? That's the flip side of it being accessible. And so, you know, there's this kind of growing literature on how we have to be careful because it's with us all the time, right? So psychiatrist Anna Lemke, she has this great book called Dopamine Nation.

She calls so much of what gets delivered through our phone, a digital drug. And, um, So many of the kind of safeguards that you talk about putting in place, I mean, they do remind me of like responsible drinking campaigns or, you know, the regulations that were put on companies like Juul, for example, about not advertising to young people.

She calls so much of what gets delivered through our phone, a digital drug. And, um, So many of the kind of safeguards that you talk about putting in place, I mean, they do remind me of like responsible drinking campaigns or, you know, the regulations that were put on companies like Juul, for example, about not advertising to young people.

I mean, is it fair to say that in the same sense that social media is a digital drug, that this is a digital drug, and we should acknowledge that and sort of regulate it accordingly?

I mean, is it fair to say that in the same sense that social media is a digital drug, that this is a digital drug, and we should acknowledge that and sort of regulate it accordingly?

Can we bet on election outcomes? When do I get to bet on the things that I can bet on polymarket with you?

Can we bet on election outcomes? When do I get to bet on the things that I can bet on polymarket with you?

Our supervising producer is Catherine Millsap. Our development producer is Aisha Al-Muslim. Scott Salloway and Chris Zinsley are the deputy editors. And Falana Patterson is the Wall Street Journal's head of news audio.

Our supervising producer is Catherine Millsap. Our development producer is Aisha Al-Muslim. Scott Salloway and Chris Zinsley are the deputy editors. And Falana Patterson is the Wall Street Journal's head of news audio.

I'm Christopher Mims.

I'm Christopher Mims.

And I'm Christopher Mims. This is Bold Names, where you'll hear from the leaders of the bold-named companies featured in the pages of The Wall Street Journal. Today we ask, how is Flutter capitalizing on the rapid rise of legalized online gambling in the U.S.? Is the sports betting boom sustainable? And is it really all just good, clean fun? Or are states opening the gates to potential harms?

And I'm Christopher Mims. This is Bold Names, where you'll hear from the leaders of the bold-named companies featured in the pages of The Wall Street Journal. Today we ask, how is Flutter capitalizing on the rapid rise of legalized online gambling in the U.S.? Is the sports betting boom sustainable? And is it really all just good, clean fun? Or are states opening the gates to potential harms?

Peter, welcome to the show. Good to have you here. I'm sure our listeners have at least a passing familiarity with your best-known brand in the U.S., FanDuel, and its competitor, of course, DraftKings. But for those of you who aren't already wagering on sports in the U.S., let's start with introducing your company and what you do.

Peter, welcome to the show. Good to have you here. I'm sure our listeners have at least a passing familiarity with your best-known brand in the U.S., FanDuel, and its competitor, of course, DraftKings. But for those of you who aren't already wagering on sports in the U.S., let's start with introducing your company and what you do.

And you know, you're kind of on a tear. Like you've been posting really strong results. And you're also growing. You've got 44% of the take for sportsbook revenue in the US. Goldman Sachs estimates Americans will spend $45 billion a year on sports betting once the market is mature. It's already a $10 billion a year market right now. So let's start with that. Do you really think...

And you know, you're kind of on a tear. Like you've been posting really strong results. And you're also growing. You've got 44% of the take for sportsbook revenue in the US. Goldman Sachs estimates Americans will spend $45 billion a year on sports betting once the market is mature. It's already a $10 billion a year market right now. So let's start with that. Do you really think...

that you're on pace to grow 350% in the next, I don't know, 10, 20 years?

that you're on pace to grow 350% in the next, I don't know, 10, 20 years?

To price that, you've got an internal risk and trading desk. It feels like I picture a pit full of commodities traders in Chicago shouting at each other. Is that how you are able to price so many events every day?

To price that, you've got an internal risk and trading desk. It feels like I picture a pit full of commodities traders in Chicago shouting at each other. Is that how you are able to price so many events every day?

We just heard how Flutter uses tech to create new experiences for its customers. But how much of that tech is also used to keep them clicking, scrolling, and betting? Just like social media keeps us glued to our phones.

We just heard how Flutter uses tech to create new experiences for its customers. But how much of that tech is also used to keep them clicking, scrolling, and betting? Just like social media keeps us glued to our phones.

Tim, I think this week's episode is one of the most interesting we've done yet. And tons of new listeners are going to tune in for the first time ever. Oh, yeah? Want to bet? Funny you should mention. This week's guest is the CEO of the company behind FanDuel, the biggest U.S. company in sports betting by revenue. Even if you don't care about sports, his industry is transforming the U.S.

Tim, I think this week's episode is one of the most interesting we've done yet. And tons of new listeners are going to tune in for the first time ever. Oh, yeah? Want to bet? Funny you should mention. This week's guest is the CEO of the company behind FanDuel, the biggest U.S. company in sports betting by revenue. Even if you don't care about sports, his industry is transforming the U.S.

Clearly, like you just said, the data matters. Of course, you are a business, right? I mean, according to our own reporting, I think people lose on average seven and a half cents on every dollar they bet with you, right? The house always wins. But how do you keep people coming back when, on average, you have the problem that every gaming business has, which is that...

Clearly, like you just said, the data matters. Of course, you are a business, right? I mean, according to our own reporting, I think people lose on average seven and a half cents on every dollar they bet with you, right? The house always wins. But how do you keep people coming back when, on average, you have the problem that every gaming business has, which is that...

So sports betting is definitely better than going to a movie.

So sports betting is definitely better than going to a movie.

So let's talk about young people. So I was a young man once. A long time ago. A long time ago. You know, loved risk. Loved making impulsive bets on things. But we're in a different kind of era than we were even a couple years ago. Lots of states are sort of tightening the screws on social media companies.

So let's talk about young people. So I was a young man once. A long time ago. A long time ago. You know, loved risk. Loved making impulsive bets on things. But we're in a different kind of era than we were even a couple years ago. Lots of states are sort of tightening the screws on social media companies.

And especially in terms of age verification, Utah just passed an age verification by App Store law. Do you think that that might impact you as well, that age verification regime that's going to happen here for all kinds of apps?

And especially in terms of age verification, Utah just passed an age verification by App Store law. Do you think that that might impact you as well, that age verification regime that's going to happen here for all kinds of apps?

Their first application is going to be like Vespa style scooters. Turns out that's a huge market. There's a billion of those in the world, but you know, this could go into vacuum cleaners. It could go into your HVAC system. It could be scaled up. It could go into electric vehicles. So that's a big deal. It just means local supply chains for motors eventually all over the world.

Their first application is going to be like Vespa style scooters. Turns out that's a huge market. There's a billion of those in the world, but you know, this could go into vacuum cleaners. It could go into your HVAC system. It could be scaled up. It could go into electric vehicles. So that's a big deal. It just means local supply chains for motors eventually all over the world.

One challenge though, is that because these motors are typically a bit less powerful than the current ones. They really have to be in the wheels. Turns out that just makes it more efficient. You don't have to transmit the power through a bunch of gears.

One challenge though, is that because these motors are typically a bit less powerful than the current ones. They really have to be in the wheels. Turns out that just makes it more efficient. You don't have to transmit the power through a bunch of gears.