Christopher L. Eisgruber

Yeah, Rachel, so I appreciate the question. And I should say that, you know, there are two things that are true simultaneously. One is I see things that alarm me about anti-Semitism. The second is that many of our colleges are great places to be Jewish and better places to be Jewish than a lot of other parts of our society.

Yeah, Rachel, so I appreciate the question. And I should say that, you know, there are two things that are true simultaneously. One is I see things that alarm me about anti-Semitism. The second is that many of our colleges are great places to be Jewish and better places to be Jewish than a lot of other parts of our society.

So I would say that about Princeton, our students, our Jewish students report the highest levels of satisfaction and belonging on our campus. campus. And we look to support all of our students to make sure that they are having good experiences on this campus.

So I would say that about Princeton, our students, our Jewish students report the highest levels of satisfaction and belonging on our campus. campus. And we look to support all of our students to make sure that they are having good experiences on this campus.

So, look, let me give you examples both from my own campus and off my own campus, right? So, on my own campus, I would say that both during my time as a student and a faculty member and then as president, I had never heard an anti-Semitic remark directed to someone else or to me until last year. I did hear anti-Semitic remarks, including a couple that were directed my way over the past year.

So, look, let me give you examples both from my own campus and off my own campus, right? So, on my own campus, I would say that both during my time as a student and a faculty member and then as president, I had never heard an anti-Semitic remark directed to someone else or to me until last year. I did hear anti-Semitic remarks, including a couple that were directed my way over the past year.

Somebody sent me something by email, and there was another one that was, you know, left for me as a message. I'll just put it that way. Wow.

Somebody sent me something by email, and there was another one that was, you know, left for me as a message. I'll just put it that way. Wow.

Yeah. Right. So that's unacceptable. Right. That's unacceptable directed at any student. You know, those are, in my view, marginal instances on our campus, but they're unacceptable instances. If I look more broadly at what's going on. These are not things that we've experienced on Princeton's campus, but there are reports of students being physically harassed or targeted on campuses.

Yeah. Right. So that's unacceptable. Right. That's unacceptable directed at any student. You know, those are, in my view, marginal instances on our campus, but they're unacceptable instances. If I look more broadly at what's going on. These are not things that we've experienced on Princeton's campus, but there are reports of students being physically harassed or targeted on campuses.

There are classes that have been interrupted. There are students who have trouble getting to their classes. There were remarks made by people, students, and academics in the wake of the October 7th Hamas terrorist attacks that were utterly unacceptable, right? So there was one Cornell faculty member, for example, who described the event as exhilarating.

There are classes that have been interrupted. There are students who have trouble getting to their classes. There were remarks made by people, students, and academics in the wake of the October 7th Hamas terrorist attacks that were utterly unacceptable, right? So there was one Cornell faculty member, for example, who described the event as exhilarating.

That's unacceptable. And I don't see how you can say something like that without anti-Semitism being involved. So those things disturb me. And we need to make sure that there are processes on every campus to enable us to address those incidents. You have to have very clear rules and you have to be willing to enforce them.

That's unacceptable. And I don't see how you can say something like that without anti-Semitism being involved. So those things disturb me. And we need to make sure that there are processes on every campus to enable us to address those incidents. You have to have very clear rules and you have to be willing to enforce them.

So, Rachel, there are a lot of different parts to that question you just asked. Let me start with where I think the truth is in the critique, right? So, it is important for universities to have vigorous contestation about the truth and to make it possible for people of diverse viewpoints to express their opinions and to flourish on the So we need to be a place where conservatives feel welcome.

So, Rachel, there are a lot of different parts to that question you just asked. Let me start with where I think the truth is in the critique, right? So, it is important for universities to have vigorous contestation about the truth and to make it possible for people of diverse viewpoints to express their opinions and to flourish on the So we need to be a place where conservatives feel welcome.

We also need to be a place where conservatives feel they can speak up. And we need to be a place where when there are important conservative arguments to be heard and when political viewpoints matter, people are asserting those. And I do think universities can do that. better about that.

We also need to be a place where conservatives feel they can speak up. And we need to be a place where when there are important conservative arguments to be heard and when political viewpoints matter, people are asserting those. And I do think universities can do that. better about that.

That is, when we're talking about free speech, we have to talk about the importance of having multiple viewpoints heard, and we should care about that because it's integral to our own mission and what we're trying to do in education and research. That's different from saying that universities should reflect the political ideology of the country. We shouldn't, actually, right? We shouldn't.

That is, when we're talking about free speech, we have to talk about the importance of having multiple viewpoints heard, and we should care about that because it's integral to our own mission and what we're trying to do in education and research. That's different from saying that universities should reflect the political ideology of the country. We shouldn't, actually, right? We shouldn't.

We shouldn't. It's not our job to reflect the political ideology of the country, right? We're not We're not a Sunday morning talk show that has ideological balance on it. We need to be open to conservative views. We need to be a place where conservatives feel they can flourish. But we're supposed to be doing something different than just reflecting what's going on in the country.

We shouldn't. It's not our job to reflect the political ideology of the country, right? We're not We're not a Sunday morning talk show that has ideological balance on it. We need to be open to conservative views. We need to be a place where conservatives feel they can flourish. But we're supposed to be doing something different than just reflecting what's going on in the country.

We're supposed to be having arguments that get at truth and knowledge. And that's different from a political debating society. It's different from what goes on online. In Congress, and it's different from what goes on in a lot of journalism or from the political distribution in the country, there are political divisions about things like climate and vaccines right now.

We're supposed to be having arguments that get at truth and knowledge. And that's different from a political debating society. It's different from what goes on online. In Congress, and it's different from what goes on in a lot of journalism or from the political distribution in the country, there are political divisions about things like climate and vaccines right now.

And there is no obligation on the part of the universities to reflect what is the political division of opinion on those subjects or about, say, capitalism and investing.

And there is no obligation on the part of the universities to reflect what is the political division of opinion on those subjects or about, say, capitalism and investing.

No, Rachel, I think I need to insist on a distinction that I drew in what I just told you, which is that it's really important for conservative views to be welcome on a campus. But that's different from insisting on ideological balance on a campus. Our job is to have an honest, fair, truth-seeking process, right? And an honest, fair, truth-seeking process will produce criticisms of society.

No, Rachel, I think I need to insist on a distinction that I drew in what I just told you, which is that it's really important for conservative views to be welcome on a campus. But that's different from insisting on ideological balance on a campus. Our job is to have an honest, fair, truth-seeking process, right? And an honest, fair, truth-seeking process will produce criticisms of society.

It won't just be a mirror to society. So that's a difference. There's a second thing you said in your original question that also connects to what it is that you just asked about Christopher Rufo. You quoted some accusations that universities indoctrinate. Universities should never be indoctrinating, right? And I don't think we are.

It won't just be a mirror to society. So that's a difference. There's a second thing you said in your original question that also connects to what it is that you just asked about Christopher Rufo. You quoted some accusations that universities indoctrinate. Universities should never be indoctrinating, right? And I don't think we are.

And I don't think that the opinion data or the other serious studies of what universities do supports that. We've got to be places where robust arguments take place. I think what one has to understand is colleges and universities are going to be, I'm going to quote one of my predecessors in my office, Bill Bowen, they're going to be at a slight angle to society.

And I don't think that the opinion data or the other serious studies of what universities do supports that. We've got to be places where robust arguments take place. I think what one has to understand is colleges and universities are going to be, I'm going to quote one of my predecessors in my office, Bill Bowen, they're going to be at a slight angle to society.

Well, without trying to be precise right now about the timeline, we began to see precipitous kind of threats to funding streams early on in the new presidential administration. And that included initially a freeze to funding. research funding to universities. It included the imposition of severe caps on what are known as facilities and administration recoveries or overhead cost charges.

Well, without trying to be precise right now about the timeline, we began to see precipitous kind of threats to funding streams early on in the new presidential administration. And that included initially a freeze to funding. research funding to universities. It included the imposition of severe caps on what are known as facilities and administration recoveries or overhead cost charges.

They operate pursuant to a different set of principles, scholarly disciplines that provide scholarly standards for how you judge arguments that are different from what exists in the rest of society. So we shouldn't expect them just to be mirrors to what society is.

They operate pursuant to a different set of principles, scholarly disciplines that provide scholarly standards for how you judge arguments that are different from what exists in the rest of society. So we shouldn't expect them just to be mirrors to what society is.

Yeah. So, you know, let me start with this, right, which is that the circumstances right now that face any university president are really tremendously difficult circumstances. And I say that because I don't want to underestimate in any way the difficulty of the choices that my counterpart at Columbia faced. I believe it's important and essential to stand up for academic freedom.

Yeah. So, you know, let me start with this, right, which is that the circumstances right now that face any university president are really tremendously difficult circumstances. And I say that because I don't want to underestimate in any way the difficulty of the choices that my counterpart at Columbia faced. I believe it's important and essential to stand up for academic freedom.

But the threats to an institution that are coming when the government says it's going to deprive that institution, of federal funding are severe in a way that present really hard choices. Presidents are talking to one another about this. I chair the board for the Association of American Universities. Board meetings occur regularly. Now, they used to be twice a year.

But the threats to an institution that are coming when the government says it's going to deprive that institution, of federal funding are severe in a way that present really hard choices. Presidents are talking to one another about this. I chair the board for the Association of American Universities. Board meetings occur regularly. Now, they used to be twice a year.

They're considerably more often at this point as needed. What does regularly mean? Every one or two weeks or so.

They're considerably more often at this point as needed. What does regularly mean? Every one or two weeks or so.

It is a crisis, right? I mean, the funding that is essential to the quality of American research and America's universities is under threat. That's a crisis for universities, and it is a crisis for our country. We each have our own missions and our own needs, so our responses are not necessarily going to be identical to one another. But I will say this.

It is a crisis, right? I mean, the funding that is essential to the quality of American research and America's universities is under threat. That's a crisis for universities, and it is a crisis for our country. We each have our own missions and our own needs, so our responses are not necessarily going to be identical to one another. But I will say this.

I think even when universities have to concede or make concessions because they may be forced to do that in order to protect people, I think they need to speak up under those circumstances and recognize the principles at stake, even if they say something like, I really regret this, but I need under these circumstances to make a compromise. Do you wish you had heard that from Columbia?

I think even when universities have to concede or make concessions because they may be forced to do that in order to protect people, I think they need to speak up under those circumstances and recognize the principles at stake, even if they say something like, I really regret this, but I need under these circumstances to make a compromise. Do you wish you had heard that from Columbia?

I do wish I had heard that from Columbia, right? I mean, I just think I understand why Columbia might feel that they had to make concessions under the circumstances. These choices are so hard, right? You have careers at stake. You have jobs at stake. You have the ability to educate your students at stake.

I do wish I had heard that from Columbia, right? I mean, I just think I understand why Columbia might feel that they had to make concessions under the circumstances. These choices are so hard, right? You have careers at stake. You have jobs at stake. You have the ability to educate your students at stake.

And you may say, look, I wish I could take a stand on principle, but given what's at stake, I can't. But then you need to say that, right? You need to admit and you need to say to your community and to Americans, hey, there's something really fundamental here. That has been lost here.

And you may say, look, I wish I could take a stand on principle, but given what's at stake, I can't. But then you need to say that, right? You need to admit and you need to say to your community and to Americans, hey, there's something really fundamental here. That has been lost here.

I'm not considering any concessions.

I'm not considering any concessions.

No. Look, we haven't been asked for anything, Rachel. Right now, all the Trump administration has said to us and all the actually the funding agencies have said to us is that the grants are being suspended in general.

No. Look, we haven't been asked for anything, Rachel. Right now, all the Trump administration has said to us and all the actually the funding agencies have said to us is that the grants are being suspended in general.

There are a small number of cancellations, but in general, they've said that they've been suspended pending a period of time during which the administration is determining whether or not the grants are in accordance with law. So they haven't asked us to do anything.

There are a small number of cancellations, but in general, they've said that they've been suspended pending a period of time during which the administration is determining whether or not the grants are in accordance with law. So they haven't asked us to do anything.

Rachel, I don't know the answer to that question and I won't speculate about it, but I believe it is essential for us to protect academic freedom.

Rachel, I don't know the answer to that question and I won't speculate about it, but I believe it is essential for us to protect academic freedom.

We would not do that. We believe that that would be unlawful and we would contest that in court.

We would not do that. We believe that that would be unlawful and we would contest that in court.

Rachel, I mean, right now we are facing a variety of different threats to our funding model. So just to be clear, because I think this needs to be there for me to answer your question, there's the kind of risk that you just mentioned. There are the threats to NIH funding or scientific funding more generally, right? Not specific to us, but across universities.

Rachel, I mean, right now we are facing a variety of different threats to our funding model. So just to be clear, because I think this needs to be there for me to answer your question, there's the kind of risk that you just mentioned. There are the threats to NIH funding or scientific funding more generally, right? Not specific to us, but across universities.

Those are charges that apply to very real costs of research. And suddenly the government is saying, well, we're going to take that number down in ways that are going to make it impossible for universities to go forward with the research that they've been doing before.

Those are charges that apply to very real costs of research. And suddenly the government is saying, well, we're going to take that number down in ways that are going to make it impossible for universities to go forward with the research that they've been doing before.

There are proposals to increase the tax on the endowment, and there are adverse economic circumstances. My understanding is looking at the stock markets down again rather significantly today.

There are proposals to increase the tax on the endowment, and there are adverse economic circumstances. My understanding is looking at the stock markets down again rather significantly today.

Yeah, so we are modeling various kinds of risks to our enterprise. What I would say, Rachel, is that moves that we could make to try to raise other revenue or to reallocate priorities, to decide we're going to refocus certain kinds of funding on research and give up on some other things that we might be doing. Those could enable us to deal with short-term losses

Yeah, so we are modeling various kinds of risks to our enterprise. What I would say, Rachel, is that moves that we could make to try to raise other revenue or to reallocate priorities, to decide we're going to refocus certain kinds of funding on research and give up on some other things that we might be doing. Those could enable us to deal with short-term losses

while we try to overturn decisions that were a threat to our academic freedom.

while we try to overturn decisions that were a threat to our academic freedom.

What we are looking at is... how best we can use resources to preserve the core mission of the university. So, look, I was the chief budgetary officer during the global financial crisis. That was a 25% hit to our endowment. We had to make around a $180 million adjustment at that point to our budget baseline.

What we are looking at is... how best we can use resources to preserve the core mission of the university. So, look, I was the chief budgetary officer during the global financial crisis. That was a 25% hit to our endowment. We had to make around a $180 million adjustment at that point to our budget baseline.

We basically said under those circumstances, and those numbers, if you do the inflation adjustment on them, are comparable to our total budget. federal research funding on the main campus, we said, we're going to protect three things that are critical to what it is we do. That's our teaching, our research, and our affordability and access to the university.

We basically said under those circumstances, and those numbers, if you do the inflation adjustment on them, are comparable to our total budget. federal research funding on the main campus, we said, we're going to protect three things that are critical to what it is we do. That's our teaching, our research, and our affordability and access to the university.

And we're going to find ways to change other parts of our operation, to draw upon other resources, to allow for temporary increases to our endowment programs. spend rate in order to get us through this period. And Rachel, we can do that kind of thing, again, with temporary being an important word in there. You can reallocate across purposes. You can sustain your core for a period of time.

And we're going to find ways to change other parts of our operation, to draw upon other resources, to allow for temporary increases to our endowment programs. spend rate in order to get us through this period. And Rachel, we can do that kind of thing, again, with temporary being an important word in there. You can reallocate across purposes. You can sustain your core for a period of time.

So that was the point at which I and every other university president realized there was a serious threat to this government-university partnership that has contributed to the strength of the country and to the quality of our research institutions. Then a couple of weeks ago, something happened at Columbia that introduced a new and, in my view, very dangerous element to this, which is that

So that was the point at which I and every other university president realized there was a serious threat to this government-university partnership that has contributed to the strength of the country and to the quality of our research institutions. Then a couple of weeks ago, something happened at Columbia that introduced a new and, in my view, very dangerous element to this, which is that

But if you're not able to change the basic fundamentals there, I mean, basically our endowment bounced back after the global financial crisis. At that point, what you're doing is saying, okay, we're going to have to stop doing some of the

But if you're not able to change the basic fundamentals there, I mean, basically our endowment bounced back after the global financial crisis. At that point, what you're doing is saying, okay, we're going to have to stop doing some of the

Well, you know, the first things you look at, so we're already in what we would call a kind of a soft hiring freeze that extends both to our faculty and to our staff hiring. So what I would say is you pull in your wings a bit on what it is you're doing. You're unable to take up. Faculty members are coming to us all the time at places like this. with research initiatives.

Well, you know, the first things you look at, so we're already in what we would call a kind of a soft hiring freeze that extends both to our faculty and to our staff hiring. So what I would say is you pull in your wings a bit on what it is you're doing. You're unable to take up. Faculty members are coming to us all the time at places like this. with research initiatives.

And some of the most exciting ones are often ones that they may not be able to get government funding for even in a kind of robust federal funding environment. They're saying, if you make an initial investment here, right, we'll start doing things that are really exciting. And then we'll be able to put this onto federal grants once we have proof of concept.

And some of the most exciting ones are often ones that they may not be able to get government funding for even in a kind of robust federal funding environment. They're saying, if you make an initial investment here, right, we'll start doing things that are really exciting. And then we'll be able to put this onto federal grants once we have proof of concept.

Well, in these circumstances, we're able to do less of that. And that's where you find yourself pulling back from what it is you've been doing.

Well, in these circumstances, we're able to do less of that. And that's where you find yourself pulling back from what it is you've been doing.

No. We are not. But there are new initiatives that get harder to do, areas that you want to see universities move into. That you're not going to be able to do. That people won't be able to move into.

No. We are not. But there are new initiatives that get harder to do, areas that you want to see universities move into. That you're not going to be able to do. That people won't be able to move into.

I'm not saying it's going to be fine, right? I just want to be clear about where are our commitments and our priorities and how are we going to do that. And when I talk to you about what we're doing in the global financial crisis, we were laying off people into the worst economy that existed in the United States since the Great Depression. That's not things being fine as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not saying it's going to be fine, right? I just want to be clear about where are our commitments and our priorities and how are we going to do that. And when I talk to you about what we're doing in the global financial crisis, we were laying off people into the worst economy that existed in the United States since the Great Depression. That's not things being fine as far as I'm concerned.

Eventually, universities will have to make choices about what they do around affordability and what they do around research if things get bad enough, right? So our students right now, because of our endowment, We have 83% graduating with zero debt.

Eventually, universities will have to make choices about what they do around affordability and what they do around research if things get bad enough, right? So our students right now, because of our endowment, We have 83% graduating with zero debt.

At some point, you get to really tough choices about how good does your financial aid program have to be, right, in order to be able to sustain the research that you do.

At some point, you get to really tough choices about how good does your financial aid program have to be, right, in order to be able to sustain the research that you do.

If you get contraction in what research is going on, you get some universities that go to other places, right, that have to make judgments that we don't have to make about whether they're going to continue to accept the grants that support their medical schools or compromise on academic freedom. Neither of those choices is fine.

If you get contraction in what research is going on, you get some universities that go to other places, right, that have to make judgments that we don't have to make about whether they're going to continue to accept the grants that support their medical schools or compromise on academic freedom. Neither of those choices is fine.

There's nothing that's going to be fine if we don't restore simultaneously a respect for academic freedom without which you cannot be a great research university or this funding. I'm just saying our choices are, you know, first of all, we have to protect academic freedom. I do not think we can give up on that.

There's nothing that's going to be fine if we don't restore simultaneously a respect for academic freedom without which you cannot be a great research university or this funding. I'm just saying our choices are, you know, first of all, we have to protect academic freedom. I do not think we can give up on that.

And the right set of choices for us are ones that say, all right, we're going to reallocate around priorities that mean we're going to do research and teaching of the highest quality and but not be able to do as much of it as we would otherwise do. And I don't think that's fine for us, right? And the choices get harder and harder the more the revenue streams come to bear.

And the right set of choices for us are ones that say, all right, we're going to reallocate around priorities that mean we're going to do research and teaching of the highest quality and but not be able to do as much of it as we would otherwise do. And I don't think that's fine for us, right? And the choices get harder and harder the more the revenue streams come to bear.

At some point, you're going to get to places where even what I describe right now is not possible and things are going to get worse. So things can get very bad.

At some point, you're going to get to places where even what I describe right now is not possible and things are going to get worse. So things can get very bad.

The government came in and, without any due process or any apparent investigation, said basically to Columbia, we're going to take away a bunch of your grants that support things like medical research, and we're not going to restore them to you unless you do things like admissions reform for how it is you take in undergraduate students and putting certain departments that deal with things like Middle Eastern studies into receivership.

The government came in and, without any due process or any apparent investigation, said basically to Columbia, we're going to take away a bunch of your grants that support things like medical research, and we're not going to restore them to you unless you do things like admissions reform for how it is you take in undergraduate students and putting certain departments that deal with things like Middle Eastern studies into receivership.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

That was whole new territory in terms of what the government was doing because the government was using its tremendous power over research dollars to try to control what a private university was doing in terms of matters that are generally considered part of academic freedom.

That was whole new territory in terms of what the government was doing because the government was using its tremendous power over research dollars to try to control what a private university was doing in terms of matters that are generally considered part of academic freedom.

That is how you constitute your departments, how you choose your students, and presumably how it is you choose your faculty.

That is how you constitute your departments, how you choose your students, and presumably how it is you choose your faculty.

Yeah, Rachel, so let's start with this, right? Standing against anti-Semitism is a fundamental responsibility for any university president and for any university. It's something where universities ought to be working in partnership with the government.

Yeah, Rachel, so let's start with this, right? Standing against anti-Semitism is a fundamental responsibility for any university president and for any university. It's something where universities ought to be working in partnership with the government.

And if the government has concerns about anti-Semitism or any other form of hate on a college campus, it is legitimate for the government to go in pursuant to the laws that exist prohibiting that.

And if the government has concerns about anti-Semitism or any other form of hate on a college campus, it is legitimate for the government to go in pursuant to the laws that exist prohibiting that.

Title IX, Title VI, right? And to come in to require the university to take steps. But that's the right way to proceed. In that kind of investigation, as in any other kind of investigation, the government should be observing the due process that our law provides. They should be allowing universities to respond and offer their side of the story.

Title IX, Title VI, right? And to come in to require the university to take steps. But that's the right way to proceed. In that kind of investigation, as in any other kind of investigation, the government should be observing the due process that our law provides. They should be allowing universities to respond and offer their side of the story.

And then they should be putting in place, if they find that there are violations, appropriate remedies that are tailored to the violations and to the law. I think the problem with what happened at Columbia was that due process was not observed. The threats were made to funding without any real investigation or without any opportunity for Columbia to respond.

And then they should be putting in place, if they find that there are violations, appropriate remedies that are tailored to the violations and to the law. I think the problem with what happened at Columbia was that due process was not observed. The threats were made to funding without any real investigation or without any opportunity for Columbia to respond.

And then they were done in ways that encroached on these extraordinarily important principles of academic freedom. From my own standpoint, as I look at Colombia, I would say it's clear there were some serious problems with anti-Semitism on that campus. I also believe it's clear that Colombia was taking steps that they should be taking in order to address anti-Semitism.

And then they were done in ways that encroached on these extraordinarily important principles of academic freedom. From my own standpoint, as I look at Colombia, I would say it's clear there were some serious problems with anti-Semitism on that campus. I also believe it's clear that Colombia was taking steps that they should be taking in order to address anti-Semitism.

If the government didn't think they were doing enough, that's a perfectly appropriate thing for the government to be involved in. But again... respecting the norms of due process that are fundamental to our law and fundamental to our country, rather than doing this in some way that just comes in and says, hey, we're taking your funds, and now we want you to make these other kinds of changes.

If the government didn't think they were doing enough, that's a perfectly appropriate thing for the government to be involved in. But again... respecting the norms of due process that are fundamental to our law and fundamental to our country, rather than doing this in some way that just comes in and says, hey, we're taking your funds, and now we want you to make these other kinds of changes.

So I decided to write the op-ed because I do think there's a very fundamental threat here right now with two dimensions to it, to America's research universities, that anybody who cares about the strength of this country, our economy, our prosperity, our security, our health should be worried about.

So I decided to write the op-ed because I do think there's a very fundamental threat here right now with two dimensions to it, to America's research universities, that anybody who cares about the strength of this country, our economy, our prosperity, our security, our health should be worried about.

And one of those is the threat to this compact between the government and our universities that has produced research that's made a difference in the life of every American.

And one of those is the threat to this compact between the government and our universities that has produced research that's made a difference in the life of every American.

The reason I wrote when I did, when the threats were made to Colombia, is that there's an even more fundamental threat when the government starts intruding on academic freedom. It basically says there are departments at Colombia that seem to be saying things that we don't like. We're going to use this funding as a mechanism to try to change what it is Colombia does. is doing in that respect.

The reason I wrote when I did, when the threats were made to Colombia, is that there's an even more fundamental threat when the government starts intruding on academic freedom. It basically says there are departments at Colombia that seem to be saying things that we don't like. We're going to use this funding as a mechanism to try to change what it is Colombia does. is doing in that respect.

That means as we look at efforts to influence what universities are doing, how they teach about Israel and Gaza, how they teach about climate, how they teach about American history, how they teach about diversity, we are seeing threats of significant intrusion into the freedom of scholars to raise the kinds of ideas that enable change to take place in our society and enable people to pursue truth.

That means as we look at efforts to influence what universities are doing, how they teach about Israel and Gaza, how they teach about climate, how they teach about American history, how they teach about diversity, we are seeing threats of significant intrusion into the freedom of scholars to raise the kinds of ideas that enable change to take place in our society and enable people to pursue truth.

We see another version of this going on as the government goes in and gives an order, for example, to the United States Naval Academy to remove a whole series of books from its library. There is a pattern here of intrusions in academic freedom of strong universities that should be of concern to every American.

We see another version of this going on as the government goes in and gives an order, for example, to the United States Naval Academy to remove a whole series of books from its library. There is a pattern here of intrusions in academic freedom of strong universities that should be of concern to every American.

Rachel, I don't want to make this about motive and what the government's motive or intentions are. What I would say is, if this is genuinely about anti-Semitism, there's a right way to go about that, right? We should want our universities and our government to be partnering around making sure we have campuses where everybody can flourish. And for me, that's about all the groups on my campus.

Rachel, I don't want to make this about motive and what the government's motive or intentions are. What I would say is, if this is genuinely about anti-Semitism, there's a right way to go about that, right? We should want our universities and our government to be partnering around making sure we have campuses where everybody can flourish. And for me, that's about all the groups on my campus.

It's about our underrepresented minorities. It's about our Jewish students. It's about our Muslim students. And we should all be working together around that. But there are right ways to do that. The wrong way of doing it does involve using funds as a cudgel to get universities to do things that the government wants. And when, for example, I'll take one particular demand in...

It's about our underrepresented minorities. It's about our Jewish students. It's about our Muslim students. And we should all be working together around that. But there are right ways to do that. The wrong way of doing it does involve using funds as a cudgel to get universities to do things that the government wants. And when, for example, I'll take one particular demand in...

Thanks for coming here.

Thanks for coming here.

the government's letter to Colombia. They asked Colombia to do comprehensive admission reform.

the government's letter to Colombia. They asked Colombia to do comprehensive admission reform.

I don't know what that means, Rachel. But what I do know is that I can't draw a connection between the stated concern of remedying anti-Semitism and a suggestion that Colombia should do comprehensive admission reform.

I don't know what that means, Rachel. But what I do know is that I can't draw a connection between the stated concern of remedying anti-Semitism and a suggestion that Colombia should do comprehensive admission reform.

Do you mind if I grab a cup of coffee? Please, no, no.

Do you mind if I grab a cup of coffee? Please, no, no.

I think they're disconnected. And in any event, I think that it's not appropriate for the government to be using its power as a funder to change the way that Columbia does its research, its teaching, or its admissions.

I think they're disconnected. And in any event, I think that it's not appropriate for the government to be using its power as a funder to change the way that Columbia does its research, its teaching, or its admissions.

Okay. I'm already caffeinated.

Okay. I'm already caffeinated.

So let me say a few things about that. One is just that I think universities have a responsibility no matter where funding is coming from, whether it's from a private donor or from the government, to ensure that in taking the funding, they don't accept any strings that are inconsistent with academic freedom.

So let me say a few things about that. One is just that I think universities have a responsibility no matter where funding is coming from, whether it's from a private donor or from the government, to ensure that in taking the funding, they don't accept any strings that are inconsistent with academic freedom.

And certainly for me as a president, it means that we have to look carefully anytime we take a gift, and there are gifts we turn down because we think that they would interfere with academic freedom if we took them. Second thing you asked is how much funding we take as a research university per year from the federal government, which is, again, going to be our biggest sponsor.

And certainly for me as a president, it means that we have to look carefully anytime we take a gift, and there are gifts we turn down because we think that they would interfere with academic freedom if we took them. Second thing you asked is how much funding we take as a research university per year from the federal government, which is, again, going to be our biggest sponsor.

For us, it's around, you know, ballpark in the neighborhood of $250 million a year on our main campus. I say main campus because there is also a plasma physics laboratory, which is a Department of Energy National Laboratory that we operate for the government. That's a government laboratory. off campus. And so that gets you up to around 400 to 500 million if you count the laboratory.

For us, it's around, you know, ballpark in the neighborhood of $250 million a year on our main campus. I say main campus because there is also a plasma physics laboratory, which is a Department of Energy National Laboratory that we operate for the government. That's a government laboratory. off campus. And so that gets you up to around 400 to 500 million if you count the laboratory.

I'll trust your math on that. Yes, it's significant. And it would be higher at many of our peer institutions because most of our peers, for example, have medical schools. And if you have a medical school, given the size of its budget, and it's dependent on national institutes of health funding, the percentages are going to be higher.

I'll trust your math on that. Yes, it's significant. And it would be higher at many of our peer institutions because most of our peers, for example, have medical schools. And if you have a medical school, given the size of its budget, and it's dependent on national institutes of health funding, the percentages are going to be higher.

Okay. Terrific. Come on back.

Okay. Terrific. Come on back.

The other question you asked is whether or not it's a mistake to accept that funding given the dependence that it creates. Rachel, I would say the answer to that is no. This funding has been present in the United States for a period of 70 years at risk.

The other question you asked is whether or not it's a mistake to accept that funding given the dependence that it creates. Rachel, I would say the answer to that is no. This funding has been present in the United States for a period of 70 years at risk.

all of our leading research universities, and it has allowed our research universities to be able to conduct research that makes a difference to the world, that makes our country stronger, and that we could not conduct even at a place like Princeton with its endowment resources if we were not accepting funding from the federal government.

all of our leading research universities, and it has allowed our research universities to be able to conduct research that makes a difference to the world, that makes our country stronger, and that we could not conduct even at a place like Princeton with its endowment resources if we were not accepting funding from the federal government.

And that becomes even more true as you look all the way across the country. So when you ask about things like, you know, why does the United States win so many more Nobel Prizes than other places? Why is it that we have the set of discoveries here that over time lead to things like the Internet and artificial intelligence or GLP-1s or new immunological cancer treatments.

And that becomes even more true as you look all the way across the country. So when you ask about things like, you know, why does the United States win so many more Nobel Prizes than other places? Why is it that we have the set of discoveries here that over time lead to things like the Internet and artificial intelligence or GLP-1s or new immunological cancer treatments.

Those things are happening because of this partnership. And there could be other models that you could have that would involve less government money flowing to universities. You would also have less research benefiting the United States if you did that.

Those things are happening because of this partnership. And there could be other models that you could have that would involve less government money flowing to universities. You would also have less research benefiting the United States if you did that.

Yeah, feel free to call me Chris, please. Okay, Chris. It's easier than Eisgruber.

Yeah, feel free to call me Chris, please. Okay, Chris. It's easier than Eisgruber.

Yeah, so when we are creating laboratories or buying equipment or doing other things, paying for faculty, a lot of that funding is coming from what our donors have made possible. But you need another $250 million a year to be able to do the research that those faculty are doing. are doing. Could you sub in private companies funding that? I don't think so, right?

Yeah, so when we are creating laboratories or buying equipment or doing other things, paying for faculty, a lot of that funding is coming from what our donors have made possible. But you need another $250 million a year to be able to do the research that those faculty are doing. are doing. Could you sub in private companies funding that? I don't think so, right?

Partly because the time horizon on the research that the government funds is in general longer term than what companies are looking at. Sometimes.

Partly because the time horizon on the research that the government funds is in general longer term than what companies are looking at. Sometimes.

They want to return on their investment. That's the way that works. And I mean, I'll give you a couple of these examples that involve National Science Foundation funding. Our university has been fortunate in quantum science to host a couple of Nobel celebrations over the last decade, one of them for Duncan Halden and one of them for John Hopfield.

They want to return on their investment. That's the way that works. And I mean, I'll give you a couple of these examples that involve National Science Foundation funding. Our university has been fortunate in quantum science to host a couple of Nobel celebrations over the last decade, one of them for Duncan Halden and one of them for John Hopfield.

When Duncan accepted this prize, he's an Englishman. He came over to the United States and there were reporters from England interviewing him at the press conference. They were interviewing him over Zoom. Mm-hmm. And they asked this question, well, we're proud of you as an Englishman having won the Nobel Prize. How come you did it in Princeton, New Jersey, rather than back home in England?

When Duncan accepted this prize, he's an Englishman. He came over to the United States and there were reporters from England interviewing him at the press conference. They were interviewing him over Zoom. Mm-hmm. And they asked this question, well, we're proud of you as an Englishman having won the Nobel Prize. How come you did it in Princeton, New Jersey, rather than back home in England?

And his answer was, I came to the United States because the National Science Foundation was willing to fund the kind of long-term research That I do, whereas in England, the government funding agencies were looking at things with a much shorter term application.

And his answer was, I came to the United States because the National Science Foundation was willing to fund the kind of long-term research That I do, whereas in England, the government funding agencies were looking at things with a much shorter term application.

If we stop that compact between the government and research universities, we're not going to be doing the kind of research anymore that Duncan Holden did. And that research is either going to happen someplace else or it's not going to happen at all.

If we stop that compact between the government and research universities, we're not going to be doing the kind of research anymore that Duncan Holden did. And that research is either going to happen someplace else or it's not going to happen at all.