Chris Kempes

I think that's incredibly fair. People often say complex adaptive systems to define complex systems or complexity. And so the adaptive part really matters to many people. Right. And so life is the quintessential adaptive system. And what we mean by that typically is that for an organism just to survive, just to persist, it has to deal with this constantly changing set of environments.

I think that's incredibly fair. People often say complex adaptive systems to define complex systems or complexity. And so the adaptive part really matters to many people. Right. And so life is the quintessential adaptive system. And what we mean by that typically is that for an organism just to survive, just to persist, it has to deal with this constantly changing set of environments.

It has to respond to. all sorts of new predators, new cooperators, new ecologies. And to do that, it has to constantly mutate and evolve and adapt. And so that's one way to really define complexity, which is systems that have to continually find new solutions to an ever-changing world.

It has to respond to. all sorts of new predators, new cooperators, new ecologies. And to do that, it has to constantly mutate and evolve and adapt. And so that's one way to really define complexity, which is systems that have to continually find new solutions to an ever-changing world.

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, I think for me— I really focused on that hierarchy and internal structure and all the ways that organisms come to find solutions. To me, that's all a consequence of needing to adapt. So, you know, I like to say if there's one environment out there with only one limiting resource and it never changes.

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, I think for me— I really focused on that hierarchy and internal structure and all the ways that organisms come to find solutions. To me, that's all a consequence of needing to adapt. So, you know, I like to say if there's one environment out there with only one limiting resource and it never changes.

You only need one very simple organism to survive in that. And in fact, it has no benefit in becoming more complex in gaining higher levels of structure and developing all these wonderful fractals on the inside like we do with our vascular systems. And so. if you have that really boring environment, you don't need adaptation. You just need to find one solution and stay there forever.

You only need one very simple organism to survive in that. And in fact, it has no benefit in becoming more complex in gaining higher levels of structure and developing all these wonderful fractals on the inside like we do with our vascular systems. And so. if you have that really boring environment, you don't need adaptation. You just need to find one solution and stay there forever.

In fact, all mutations are bad. So any, and, and for us, some mutations are good. And so I think that's, you know, that, that is why I, I would sort of say you need that change. You need some external motivation to get, to get all the richness that we see in, in living organisms. Yeah.

In fact, all mutations are bad. So any, and, and for us, some mutations are good. And so I think that's, you know, that, that is why I, I would sort of say you need that change. You need some external motivation to get, to get all the richness that we see in, in living organisms. Yeah.

Yeah, well, it's interesting, right? Because it's a blatantly obvious statement, as you're alluding to. And yet it's something we take for granted, right? So we're handed in the modern world this rich set of organisms, this vast diversity that we see in all these different ecosystems that we go into and amazing creatures that have toxins and

Yeah, well, it's interesting, right? Because it's a blatantly obvious statement, as you're alluding to. And yet it's something we take for granted, right? So we're handed in the modern world this rich set of organisms, this vast diversity that we see in all these different ecosystems that we go into and amazing creatures that have toxins and

weird ways of moving around and all sorts of different intelligences. And so we look at that world and we sort of start to, and biology has classically started to try to tell stories about those organisms or explanations focused on the richness of their features. And I think we often forget this very simple fact, which is those organisms are situated in a physical environment.

weird ways of moving around and all sorts of different intelligences. And so we look at that world and we sort of start to, and biology has classically started to try to tell stories about those organisms or explanations focused on the richness of their features. And I think we often forget this very simple fact, which is those organisms are situated in a physical environment.

They're situated in the laws of physics. They're situated in the laws of chemistry. And so a lot of what I do is to try and use the other end of the spectrum of thinking to say, if all we focused on was the fact that there are these physical laws that organisms live in, how much can we say about biology?

They're situated in the laws of physics. They're situated in the laws of chemistry. And so a lot of what I do is to try and use the other end of the spectrum of thinking to say, if all we focused on was the fact that there are these physical laws that organisms live in, how much can we say about biology?

How much of all of that richness and amazing variation can we explain from just focusing on the laws of physics or laws of chemistry? Now, that's not every project. There are some places where you can't say very much about organisms from that perspective. But a lot of the game we play is to move into that space and say, how much can we explain from this simple perspective?

How much of all of that richness and amazing variation can we explain from just focusing on the laws of physics or laws of chemistry? Now, that's not every project. There are some places where you can't say very much about organisms from that perspective. But a lot of the game we play is to move into that space and say, how much can we explain from this simple perspective?

Exactly. And so I think, you know, you could say, well, imagine I'm in some sort of game theory situation with another organism where it's trying to eat me and I'm trying to build up these defenses. You know, so let's say I keep building this longer and longer spine on the outside of a very hard shell. And I do that so that it's harder and more painful for me to fit in something else's mouth.

Exactly. And so I think, you know, you could say, well, imagine I'm in some sort of game theory situation with another organism where it's trying to eat me and I'm trying to build up these defenses. You know, so let's say I keep building this longer and longer spine on the outside of a very hard shell. And I do that so that it's harder and more painful for me to fit in something else's mouth.