Cassie Holmes
Appearances
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yes. You're sort of entering that sweet spot, which is important because for those of us who are time poor, I will say that the idea of two hours, are you freaking kidding me? There is no way.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah. And actually when, and I have my students and I encourage folks to do this as tracking their time of being like in the week, how are you actually spending your time? And then as importantly, and we can talk about this of like, how do you feel out of those times when you come out of those activities? How are you feeling when you're tracking your time?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
You actually do recognize that there's a whole lot of time or not a whole lot. There's more than you think. There's probably two hours. There's probably two hours. And even if it's not just sort of discretionary wasteful time, I started doing this where I was like, okay, even thinking back to that time when I had my baby and I was an assistant professor kicking my ass to work towards tenure.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And I had my partner and my friends like in that era of the train night. I was like, okay, looking at how I spent my day in the morning, I got those 20 minutes snuggling with my little guy before heading out the door. And then talking to my best friend on my commute home, then sitting down with my husband, even though it's only 30 minutes, it's still 30 minutes with a glass of wine.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
having dinner, and then singing my baby to sleep. Those are minutes that I wouldn't have wanted to spend in any other way. And when you sum them up, it's like, okay, it's not quite two hours, but it's close. And then that's sort of some of this
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I wouldn't say epiphany, but realization of like, okay, there are times in our day, even for those of us who are time poor, that A, we can make it available by pulling from other activities that maybe the scrolling or whatever that aren't necessary and not all that satisfying to be honest. But then there's also, there's good stuff that's already right there in your time. If You notice it, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah. And it's super important to recognize, yes, the definition of time poverty is that feeling of not having enough time to complete what you set out to do. Now there's a couple of angles of that that are interesting. And with income, yes, you are absolutely right.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And the data shows that when you don't have enough, when you're below a certain threshold, there's absolutely a relationship between money and satisfaction in life, well-being. And then once you get up to a certain amount, it sort of levels off. There is sort of messiness in the data and conclusions from it.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
But there are very rich people who objectively have enough money who don't feel like they do because of There's lots of these things, social comparison, hedonic adaptation, et cetera, for time. On the one hand, it's really great that it's subjective because it means that maybe there's something that we can do.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
We can address those barriers that we can speak to what those are to make us feel like we have enough time. But I will also say that when I was recently analyzing data, so we collected data around time poverty in a nationally representative sample to see who is feeling this way. Demographically, what are the groups that are more prone to feeling time poor?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And what we see is that there is a gender effect. Maybe not surprisingly, but I was like... Actually, I think that is surprising because when we're controlling for... whether you are working, whether you have a partner who's working, all of these other factors that women tend to feel more time poor than men.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And I shared this with my husband of being like, yet another injustice of like, women feel more time poor than men. And he was like, oh, that's so great. That means it's in your head. And I was like, no, that is not the takeaway from this. It's not. Hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
In my head, it is an experience and then picking up, okay, what are those factors that make it so women, moms, tend to feel more time poor than dads? And I know, Amanda, you've sort of talked about this sort of holding up the sky thing. It is that.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It is not just the activities that we're doing, but it's all the coordinating and planning and thinking about not only what you're doing, but what everyone around you should be doing at any moment. And this idea of, okay, if we're looking at the definition again, the feeling of not having enough time to do what you set out to do. So what are you setting out to do?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
That's a big thing of what do we put on our to-do list? It is endless and it's influenced by these things of social media, these things that I could be doing, you know, our phones allow us to be doing. I mean, we can do anything at any second at this point. We can take a course, we can learn a language by going nowhere.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And so this endless opportunity of things to do at any moment, and then social media, you see all of the other things that people are doing. And then this sense of what I should be doing for everyone in my family and the coordinating. So it's good to recognize that maybe we have a little bit more control over our to-do lists than we might think.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
That's one sort of avenue into combating time poverty.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Absolutely. And I'm so excited to talk about this because it is exactly what you're seeing, Glennon. It is... the why you're spending your time. Are you spending your time on what matters to you and not what is a should of what matters to you? And also to be honest, if the work that you're doing is simply for the paycheck, that's also not all that satisfying.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It is really, whether it's in the work domain, whether it's in your personal domain, It's doing what matters to you. And then the question is, okay, what matters to you? Because absolutely, there are not enough hours in the day to do everything. So it's really about prioritization. It's about making sure that you're spending time at least some of your time on those things that matter.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And then the question is, okay, what matters, right? What are those ways of spending that matter? And there's a couple of ways into this. The purpose is the one that you're talking about right now is understanding why. Why are you doing it? And then the reason I love the five whys exercise is because often when I'm like, okay, Find your purpose. People are like, what? How do you even get there?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Purpose, that's so lofty. If you don't feel like you're living out your calling, then it can also be quite sort of threatening feeling. Like I don't have a purpose. What is she talking about? But the five whys exercise is really helpful because it allows you to dig down and see what drives you. What are those goals? So in the five whys, it's like, Asking yourself, why do you do what you do?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
In the work context, it can be your job. If you don't sort of work for pay, it can be how you dedicate your time, spend your time. And then you ask yourself, why are you doing that? And then oftentimes that first answer is pretty superficial. It might be for the job. It's like for money.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And the question is why, right? So it's like, if I'm like... What do you spend your time on? So it sounds like you're going into the sort of personal realm, spending time doing kids stuff. Why do you do that?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And why is that important?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Fabulous, right? So then it is... You coaching soccer, it is so fulfilling because that is you allowing them or giving them a sense of security and feeling of empowerment so that they're ready to sort of tackle the world. Wait, what was the example of something that was like so great? I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah. But also like for the parents who are super involved in the PTA, like for some of them, it's super rewarding because their why is that they are connecting into their community. For them, it is about, or not all, right? The parents that I am so... appreciative of.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And every time I interact with them, they spend so much time at school and yet they make me feel like not the asshole for not spending time. And I realized that they're doing it because that is their community and their world. And I guess part of it has to do with the kids, but it's actually a place where they are sort of implementing their agency. They are finding their sense of productivity.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And so to your point, it's the reason I love the five whys and identifying your purpose. It's not a blanket of a researcher or anyone being like, that is a good use of time. That is not a good use of time. It is for yourself. What matters to me so that you can be really clear for yourself? What is a good use of time?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
What is something to say yes to that you won't regret when it's actually time to do it? And when you're spending the time, even if you're stuck in traffic, you're not so angry because you're like, this is worthwhile. And again, it can happen in the professional realm.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And when I did the five whys exercise for myself, it was so game-changing because it was very clear to me what in my professional activities are worthwhile. So I identified for my five whys, my purpose is to create and disseminate knowledge about what makes people happy. And with the why for that, to increase the emotional wellbeing of those immediately around me and in the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And so when I have a professional opportunity, that is say, even if it's like traveling away from my kids to give a talk, when I'm like, this is about disseminating knowledge about what makes people happy. I'm like, yes. And when I get the little, like meeting someone after the talk, then I'm like, oh, it worked. It's worth it.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yes, it also might pay for a vacation where I can have disseminate happiness, you know, for myself. But it's really versus showing up to a committee meeting where this is about anyone's happiness. No, this is what drives me nuts. So.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It's really helpful to understand your purpose, your why's using the five why's exercise, because not only does it inform what to say yes and no to, but even when you're doing the unfun parts of these things, like sitting in traffic or like doing something work-wise, when you know the why, it feels better. Yes. It is less taxing.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
versus those activities that have no why, or that it's like you're pulling in other people's shoulds.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
That's the stuff that's so painful.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It totally touches back to this idea of money and really people's sort of notion of success. That is so dangerous and tricky because success is all out here. And what is success? Versus when you know your purpose, then success is very clear. It's like you are...
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And investing in something that fulfills that, of course, there is not enough people who have more money when you ask them or a lot of money. And if you ask what's a salary that would make you happy, it's always more than what they're currently making. And so money you can't use as a metric of success.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Also, if other people's respect of you, that is sort of never ending, you know, they will go up and down. But if you are very clear on what your metric of success is, what your why is, what your purpose is, Then that's the satisfaction. That's like when you're making progress, it feels so great.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And you don't get sucked into this social comparison because what matters for you is different from what matters for them. And then this is also really fun because you get to be really authentically like a cheerleader for other people because it doesn't feel like competition. You're like, yes, you do you. And yes, I'll do me. And hopefully they're cheering for you too.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It's a signal that it is either super counter to your purpose, that it is a barrier keeping you from the purpose. So it's almost like a signal. I am getting so upset or I'm so hurt by this.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
because it is tapping directly into that thing in you, your purpose, or, you know, I put everything in this realm of time when you're spending your time in a way that is so maddening and you come out of it and you're like, oh, that was such a waste. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It is because it was not sort of, it feels wasteful when it's not supporting your purpose, but it feels really painful when it's like thwarting your purpose.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah, it's a waste of time.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah. It's fine to be distracted during... There are activities that we have to spend time on that are not in line with their purpose. They are just part of life. You know, there are chores that we have to do. And it's fine actually to be distracted during that time because even bundling can be really helpful that it makes... That time that you have to spend anyway, that's not so fun.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
You can bundle it with something that is more satisfying or enjoyable to make that time less wasteful.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
So distraction isn't always bad. Bundling can be good to get through those sort of taxing times. But... It is really bad when, for those of us who feel really time poor, like we don't have enough time, yet we're spending on these activities that, you know, on the face of it, are totally aligned with our purpose. Like they are, you know... with our kids.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And if your purpose is to make your kids feel secure and prepare them to conquer the world, why are you sort of not actually experiencing that or noticing that in your day? And that also comes from distraction. Actually, there's interesting research where they would like ping people during their days and ask, what are you doing right now? What are you thinking about? And how do you feel?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And what they found is that people's minds are wandering. They're not thinking about what they're doing as in they're distracted 47% of the time. Almost half of the time, we are distracted. We are thinking about something other than what we're currently doing. And what they also saw was when they asked, how are you feeling?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
They found that people tended to be happier when they were paying attention to what they were doing. And this was across different types of activities. That is engagement, not being distracted. can be really good for us mentally. Like it makes us feel less sort of scattered, but it also lets us notice the good stuff that's right there in front of us.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Now, sources of distraction are phones are major, right? It's like just sitting on the table next to you. There was an interesting experiment where they had friends dining together and they either told them to leave their phones on the table like we normally do, or to put their phones away out of sight.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Those whose phones were away, they enjoyed the time with their friends more because they were less distracted. They were more engaged. But simply having the phone on the table, even though they're not on the phone, simply seeing it there, it's distracting because it draws our mind to all those other things that we could and maybe should be doing at that moment. And...
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Another thing that is a source of distraction for me is my to-do list that is constantly running in my mind, thinking about planning for what's next. Thinking about and planning for what's next absolutely pulls me out of what's happening right now and whom I'm with. And so...
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
We have to be careful, particularly when we're spending time in these ways that are sources of fulfillment, sources of joy in line with our purpose, that we want to put our phones away during those times, that we want to quiet that to-do list so that we can pay attention to Now we've been talking a lot about time poverty, which is really this sort of thinking about the hours of our day.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
How do we get as much done or can we accomplish what we need to in these 24 hours or even like in this week? But time actually in my early research, I found that when people were drawn to think about time, actually in contrast to many or in general, people were happier because it made them intentional investing their time in what mattered. But then it's like, wait, but time's the stressful thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And it's like, no, what I've come to learn is that when people take a step back and think about their time in their life, They're thinking about their years, not about the hours of their days. Then that's really clarifying. So I have, in addition to the five whys exercise, which helps people identify their purpose, I have my students, you're going to be like, oh my God, this one's terrible.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
No, they're not. They've already probably both done it.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I have my students write their own eulogy. So projecting forward to the end of their lives and taking the perspective of someone who survived them and describing. What was this life? How did this person show up in their minds and their hearts? And that eulogy exercise is so powerful because what it does is it makes people think about the years of their life. It clarifies their values, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
What matters to them? And while at the sort of outset, it might sound like a sad exercise, it's actually really empowering because when you take that perspective thinking about time more broadly, the years of your life, then it's like, oh, that's what matters. And that's how I should spend my hours today. So it's informing. So both the five lives for purpose, the eulogy exercise for your values.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And then there's also the counting times left exercise that makes you stop being distracted during those sort of precious, most joyful minutes.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah. So connection is one way to describe it. It's that you're not actually experiencing it. You are distracted through it. And like connection, I'm really glad you brought that up because... in terms of our interpersonal connection, it's super harmful.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Not only are we distracted and it keeps us from experiencing it, but those around us know we're distracted and therefore they're not going to show up. They'll also be grumpy and hurt because you're not there with them. And so, yes, it's connection to the moment, it's connection to yourself, and it's connection to those whom you're with.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Also, just choose the activities that matter to you to not be distracted. You can be distracted. If, like, going to the playground isn't your source of joy, then that's a bundling thing. You're like, okay, I will shop and get things done. But if going to your playground is actually the time when they get to see you, then... put your phone away.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
So it's not like always have your phone away, always be engaged. What it absolutely is for those activities that really matter to you, that are in line with your purpose, that are you living out your values, Those are the times. Put your phone away. Pay attention. And the rest of the hours of the day, fine. Be distracted. Fine. Yes, you will show up for things you don't really want to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
But it's okay because at the end of the week, you will feel fulfilled because you fully felt. You fully invested. You were totally there on those things that mattered. And yeah, so your schedule will be full. You will be busy, but you'll feel fulfilled. Unlike the moving through and driven by shoulds and driven by broadened ideas of success, as opposed to your own purpose and values.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Well, thank you all. This has been, I've been so excited. You guys don't know this, but we're totally best friends because I listen to you often.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Thank you so much for having me. And I'm so excited to talk about how it's not bullshit.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah, absolutely. Because I would have agreed at that point that it's all bullshit, right? The idea that you could have enough time to do all we set out to do. So when I was an assistant professor at Wharton, I had traveled up to New York to give a talk at Columbia's Business School. And this talk was sandwiched between back-to-back meetings.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
So I'm rushing for meetings, then into this super pressureful talk, and then into more meetings, and then into this colleague dinner. And then I looked at my watch and I was like, oh my. shit, I need to leave. I need to catch a train. So I jump in the cab and I'm yelling at this cab driver, not someone who yells.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And here I am yelling and he is already speeding, but I'm telling him to go faster because I couldn't miss that last train that would get me home to Philly where my four month old and husband were sleeping. Yeah. And I did make the train that night, but I remember so vividly, I sort of sunk into my seat, totally exhausted, totally overwhelmed.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And as I was looking at the nightlights was by us, like, I cannot keep up. Right. Between the pressures of work, wanting to be a good parent, wanting to be a good partner, wanting to be a good friend, but those never ending hell of chores. There was too much to do and not enough time to do it. And I wanted more time and I wanted more time, not just so that I could get more done.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I wanted more time so that I could slow down so that I could actually experience the time that I was spending. And so that my entire life wouldn't end up passing me by in this blur. And that is, is time poverty, right? It's this acute feeling of having too much to do and not enough time to do it. And on the train that night, feeling extremely time poor, extremely unhappy, extremely stressed out.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It was like... the solution is obvious. I need to quit my job and move to a sunny island somewhere, right? With this idea that if only I had a whole lot more time, if only I could spend the hours of my days relaxing, doing exactly what I wanted, then I would be happier, right? And it's like,
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And so I thought that maybe...
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
If we had just a whole lot more time, then that's the secret to happiness. And it turns out the answer is no. And I'm happy to speak to data that shows us so. And I'm also happy to speak to ways that I have sort of informed by my research since that.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
been thinking about and approaching my time, recognizing that time isn't just the barrier, that it can actually be the solution if we spend it in the ways that matter. If while we're spending it, we're thinking about what matters and ultimately finding not just happiness, but that satisfaction and that joy, that sense of meaning that we yearn for. Because what we don't want
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
is at the end of our years to look back with regret.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah. And I do want to circle back to this relationship or comparison of time and money. So the reason having more isn't always better with respect to time is because we found in our data that people are averse to being idle. And so when you're spending all of the hours of your day, day in and day out, and this isn't the weekend. This isn't vacation. This is in the regular cadence of your life.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
When you have all the hours of your day spending how you want relaxing, then what we find is that undermines people's sense of productivity. It undermines their sense of purpose and that leaves them less satisfied. And so this bell curve, this, I started to talk about it like a rainbow or an arc, where happiness goes down on both sides of the spectrum.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
So we are less happy when we have too little time. So that's the time poor, right? And that is because we feel heightened levels of stress and that stress makes us feel less satisfied, less happy. This other side where we found that there is such thing as having too much time is because of lower sense of purpose. And from that, we feel less satisfied.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
But there is this sweet spot, as you said, Glennon, where it's actually flat for a pretty wide range. In our data, what we did was we analyzed data from the American Time Use Survey. So it captures how tens of thousands of Americans, working and non-working Americans, how they spent the hours of their day.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And so we could calculate how much time they spent on discretionary activities, those things that we want to do versus obligations, those shoulds, those things that we have to do. And what we found was, at least in this data, that those who had between two and five hours of discretionary time in the day, it was actually flat.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It was not about how much time you had, which means that it's about, okay, how are you spending that time that you have available? And what's also really interesting is when you go to that side of the rainbow, the too much time side, what we find is that it actually depends on how people are spending that discretionary time.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
So when people are spending more than five hours of discretionary time in the day,
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
relaxing, doing activities that are solo, that are not sort of feeling worthwhile, productive, then you see this too much time effect that's sort of watching a lot of TV, the social media, the sitting on the beach for yet another hour, you know, but we find that when people are spending their discretionary time in ways that are personally enriching,
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
whether it is engaging in a hobby or something that you're learning about or those sources of joy, whether it's playing the guitar or learning how to play the guitar. Or for me, it's playing tennis. Then you don't see this drop-off effect. Also, the role of social connection is really important when we see that when people are spending their discretionary time
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
investing in those relationships that you don't see, not only does it flatten off and it doesn't go down, but it actually continues to go up. So that's to say that this daydream of just living, relaxing on the beach, that's where you get the too much time effect. And that's actually where you also see among retirees, why you see reduced sense of satisfaction.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
You might see it among, and we see this in the data, among empty nesters. So once your kids go off to college, then all of a sudden, you're like, oh my gosh, I have all this time. Where's my sort of purpose? Where's my sense of productivity? And then the important thing is to then invest that time in ways that are those enriching, that feel worthwhile, not sort of...
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
sitting on the couch forever, which I know in this group, none of us are sitting on the couch forever. But just to say that that is not something to aspire towards either. Interesting.