Carrie Coon

It's so exciting. We get to do all these companion things now to TV shows. It's not just a TV show anymore. It's a podcast. It's a content suite.

Oh, it's just like any, I mean, old friends are like family. So as soon as you're reunited, you default to your position in the dynamic, don't you? And I think what Laurie is starting to question, what it's forced into relief is Laurie's own choices about her life. You know, there's always the presumption that other people are judging you, even if they're not actually thinking about you.

But Laurie, I think, feels that they must all be judging and thinking about her. And she's not feeling great about her life right now.

Right. But she's also participating in that system, right? As soon as somebody walks away, we're talking about them. Of course, she has the weird pressure of having a famous friend, which is strange when you've known someone your whole life and then suddenly they're catapulted into the public eye. You sort of start to observe them as an outsider in a way.

So she has that relationship, of course, with Jacqueline. And then, you know, her other friend is pulling away from her ideologically, I would say, which is its own kind of shock for her. And I think she feels righteous in her positions, you know, wrestling with what she's wrestling with at home. And she's not really been open with her friends about how hard it's been for her in her personal life.

Because she's pretending everything's fine, which we all are doing.

I am the Jacqueline from high school. I mean, honestly, right? I'm the person from my high school who's now living in the public eye, right? And so what I have, what I've received, you know, my life is, I don't get recognized on the street or anything, so I'm not living that life. It's all happening on the internet.

But the thing that I've actually been conscious of is that the people from my childhood are actually quite warm and loving. You know, they'll reach out on Facebook and sort of celebrate my success because I think everybody feels a little hometown pride, right?

If you come from a small town like I come from, when somebody gets out and is sort of doing well, there's something there to celebrate and you feel like you're participating in something positive. I have not received a lot of negative energy and maybe it's because I'm from the Midwest.

And people aren't, you know, as jaded as they would be, like, from New York when everybody went to Juilliard and only one of you got out. You know, so I don't have that sort of thing. So, I mean, so I guess I'm Jacqueline, right?

Yeah, right. Which I also, you know, did. Yeah, no, I was definitely not a good friend. for a long time. I didn't understand female friendship until really late in my life. And so, in some ways, this storyline is pretty far from me because I actually found friendship with women very challenging when I was a young woman, just because of the way that I was taught.

I just didn't have a relationship to what female friendship was. And so, in some ways, that was the most underexplored part for me in jumping into this friendship with these women, because I don't actually have a lot of old friends from my past like that. I don't have these holdover relationships in the same way.

And wherever you go, there you are. I mean, the point that Laurie is making is how little they've actually changed in so many ways. And also because... ostensibly because they're the same age, they're supposed to be occupying similar positions in their life in terms of their home lives or their success. And so inevitably you start to compare yourself. That's the world we're living in.

And when those women are gossiping about each other, it's all about insecurity and it's all about justifying the choices they've made and making them feel better about themselves, about where they are. finding something to cherry pick that they've done better. It's just human nature. It's the curse. It's the curse of being a human being, you know?

It's just, you can go to Thailand, but like all your stuff is there with you and you're carrying it and unpacking it all the time.

It sure is. And, you know, Lori's struggling with her, we think, some alcoholism, right? She's looking a little old and a little tired.

Exactly. And I think she's not doing work. We also made the choice, Rebecca Hickey and I and Michelle, my other makeup artist, we decided that Lori would also have the wrong nail color. So Lori's stuff is intentionally just a little bit off. Yeah. Right? She didn't have time to go shopping. Her hats are a little off. She didn't pack very well. She's a New Yorker.

She doesn't spend a lot of time in the resort life. So she's like, it's not quite right. And she feels it. She feels how it's just not quite right. You know, she feels like the odd man out.

Oh, that's so interesting. You know, I'm a middle child. I'm a middle child of five. And so I've always been... A linchpin, a harmonizer. I don't feel myself as an alpha. Now, that's not true. I can't be entirely objective about my way in the world because I was also captain of my soccer team and class president.

So clearly I am an alpha and would express myself very forcefully, but that's not the way I saw myself. And so for me, playing somebody like Bertha feels... far from me. I'm like, no, no, I'm the harmonizer. I'm the person who's bringing balance to these relationships. I'm not dominating. But that's not the way I occur to other people, I think.

And so it's an interesting act of like, oh, actually, I have to sort of be willing to recognize and embrace these parts of myself that I don't actually see That's not how I see myself. It's not part of my self-concept. But it's really fun to lean into. In that regard, Lori actually feels much closer to who I am.

I feel that in my life, I always felt like, for whatever reason, the way I grew up and being in the middle, I always felt like a little bit left out. I always felt like left out waiting to happen. And even as in feeling like an interloper in Hollywood, you know, I come from a small town in Ohio and I always felt like everybody knew things I didn't know.

On a set, in fashion, like every space I go in, I'm at a deficit. I'm operating with some deficit and I'm pretending, right? That's the imposter syndrome, kind of classic. And I think... For me, that part of Lori, I feel such tenderness for her. And I, like I say, because I struggled in my life with female friendship because of the way I grew up, I feel like... Just feel so much love for her.

Whereas Bertha always feels like I'm kind of putting on something, but it's something really delicious to put on. And to be asked to walk into a room with that kind of confidence was very instructive to me as a woman coming up in this industry. Like putting that skin on is actually really, it teaches you something about walking into any room as the person that you are.

Exactly, right.

Yeah, she kind of doesn't go far enough, does she? But she's really having a good time. I'm glad to see that she has that moment before we go full White Lotus in the end of the season. I will also say that that was the first day on set for all those guys. The pool scene was their first day.

Now, Valentin had been with us, you know, Arnas had been with us, but the two gentlemen who popped in, they just, they hadn't actually, so they just kind of came in, guns blazing, and they were so much fun. We had such a great time in the pool that night. So I want to give them a lot of credit.

They're both very accomplished actors in their own countries, but they, but they, but that was like their first day was to have to like jump into a pool naked in a show that had been already running for several months. So I have to give those actors so much credit. They were so playful and so much fun. And they made that a lot easier.

But I do love that Mike gives Lori this real moment where she gets to embrace the nostalgia, right? She does feel like finally the girl's trip she wanted is happening before things start to fall apart. And, yeah, I was disappointed for her, too. She didn't get to – I know.

Yes. Feeling herself. A tribute to my mother. A little dance. Oh, that's wonderful. A dance tribute to my mom. It's just a little off rhythmically. Yeah. But, yeah, it was such a fun night. It's really a hoot. And it's very White Lotus, right, to kind of be that irreverent and hedonistic.

Thank you so much. It's good to see you.

My voice, I've had this fucking flu A, man. This is three weeks.

My voice is destroyed.

You're going to get this sexy, this sick, sexy version of me.

I just, they call it, it's influenza A. It's what all the kids at school had. So what my kids got it, I got it, Tracy got it, we all got it. My voice hasn't come back.

Sounds great. And they recover. Thank you. They recover so fast.

Actually, yeah. I've become a real pro-natalist person. I believe in having children. But I also believe now maybe you shouldn't. Because we're all going to die.

But I also believe it doesn't matter where they go to school or anything. It doesn't? No, because it's the fucking world we grew up in doesn't exist anymore. We don't have a paradigm for my children's lives.

What do you mean? Like an idea of how we'd like to raise them?

Yeah, I'm like building a Mormon pantry. Sure, yeah, treat people how you wish to be treated. And also get ready. You're going to have to distill water with a tarp and a hole.

And shoot people to protect your food. Not yet.

Someday they're going to look at me and say, and what were you doing when the world was on fire? And I'm going to say... Insulating our house and converting to heat pumps.

No, God no.

Probably.

I mean, there's probably some camp I can send them to soon that will start to teach them how to make a fire or skin a squirrel.

I mean, look, it's a fine line these days. Is it? Yeah, the far right and the far left are closer than ever.

No, no, I agree.

I don't, you know, there aren't just like entire groups of people I want to put on a train and send to a camp. Well, maybe I'm slowly moving that way too. But yeah.

I'm not going to say that. But they're some of my people. No, honestly though, I do think there's no paradigm. I think the world our kids will live in is horrendous. I mean, if you're paying any attention to climate scientists, which you know, you know what we're in for. It's devastating.

Tracy's taking the pill. He's like, I'm cyanide pill. I'm out.

Not yet. But, you know, we're not there yet. I'm just it's all like, you know, on a little graph paper plans.

Well, here's the thing, Mark. When you have kids, you have to consider how to keep your children alive. Because that's your fundamental responsibility. And I'm going to have to do that by myself, because he's going to take the pill and just like, honk out.

I don't think so.

Yeah, I mean, he's had a very full life, Mark, you know.

He's been very successful.

It's all ultimately sort of empty and meaningless, though, is the thing.

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Ja, ich glaube. Ich glaube, du hast die Macht, Nein zu sagen. Du hast die Macht, Nein zu sagen.

Ich glaube, dass mein Mann, er glaubt immer noch in die Macht des Kunsts. Er glaubt in es mehr, als ich.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Which play that no one goes to is going to change the tide of fascism. Ja, wenn du Faschismus spielst. Welches Spiel war das?

Hast du die Minuten nicht gesehen? Ich glaube nicht, dass ich die Minuten gesehen habe. Oh, Marc, das ist so gut.

Es ist schwer für mich, Theater in New York zu sehen.

Ja, ich weiß. Ich meine, es ist ein Steely Dan. Er ist ein Charakter in einem Steely Dan-Song.

Klar, klar. Ich weiß, das ist einer deiner grundlegenden Unterschiede in deiner Freundschaft.

Also denkst du immer an dieses Ende der Welt-Ding?

Nein, nein, nein. Ich denke, es ist nicht die Verantwortung eines Menschen, sich für den Tod zu vorbereiten.

Yes. Yeah, I'll be on the train, for sure.

Not anymore. Our infrastructure is really broken down. We don't really have the infrastructure for the trains.

Ja, ich denke, das ist wahr. Tracy hat ein paar solche Krankheiten erlebt, aber für ihn war es so, dass seine Kinder so jung sind.

Jetzt war das für ihn. Jetzt ist es für ihn um seine Kinder.

Also er war wirklich, er hatte andere Brasen mit Tod. Aber ja, ich meine, jetzt ist es so, das ist eine sehr andere Sache, um zu denken, was du tust, um deine Kinder zu unterstützen, im Falle deines Todes. Oder wenn du deine Kinder zu früh verlässt.

Wir kämpfen wirklich mit dem, weil ich ein erneuerbarer Katholik bin. Ein voller Katholik? Wie, du hattest es hart? Nein, mein Vater wurde fast ein katholischer Priester. Er ging zum Borromeo-Seminar in Cleveland. Er und meine Mutter gingen zu Abend und wurden engagiert, weil sie seit dem 4. Jahrhundert gearbeitet haben. Und er hat uns immer zur Kirche gebracht.

Und er hat uns bestätigt und wir wurden gebürtigt. Aber meine Mutter ging nicht zur Kirche.

Ja, wir haben all diese Sachen gemacht. In Ohio, so engagiert wie sie waren. Ohio Catholics, ja. Und seine Familie ist sehr katholisch. Meine Mutter war eine Wissenschaftlerin. Sie war eine Wissenschaftlerin. Sie hat keine Chaplains in ihrem Raum lassen, als sie gestorben war. Sie war so, komm doch aus hier. Wirklich? Ja, nein, sie war nicht interessiert.

Sie wollte ihr Körper zur Wissenschaft donieren.

I mean, no, I absolutely, all I wanted, Mark, was a statue of Mary to talk to me. I just wanted to be special. I was a middle child. Nobody was paying any attention. And I wanted, you know, I just wanted to like all the, I feel like all the women teaching Catechism talked about was like Mary appearing in Medjugorje.

I was like, is that really what it's about? Or how girls shouldn't play sports because it would damage our reproductive organs, which that was not, that didn't fly with me. Yeah, that was really a thing they were teaching me. And I was like, I like sports. Yeah. I mean, I looked like a boy until I was 17 and a half.

Ich meine, bist du verrückt? Die Macht von Schuld und Scham in meinem Leben bis ich wahrscheinlich 30 war, war so... Bis heute Morgen.

Ja, ohne Zweifel. Ohne Zweifel.

Ich meine, Schuld und Scham ist auch wie eine Parenting-Strategie, die die Leute seit Jahrhunderten gelegt haben, glaube ich. Ja. Das ist so, wie du die Moral erzeugt hast. Deine Moral basiert alles auf Schmerzen und Schmerzen.

Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Nein, das ist eine echte Sache, Marc. Aber du kannst daran arbeiten.

Es ist echt, so weit es dein Leben beeinflusst. Ich meine, ich denke, wenn du in der Mitte des Westens wächst, und meine Eltern... Wo bist du geboren? Ich bin in Ohio geboren.

Welche Stadt? Es heißt Copley. Es ist außerhalb von Akron. So it's like Akron is a very urban area, but we were in a very rural area that had been in my family since the 1800s. But it's pretty, right? It's beautiful. I loved growing up in that place.

Yeah, my dad's family lived on that property actually. Was it a farm? Yeah, it was a farm.

Oh no, I mean my dad's family is mostly, like my grandma was French.

They're all like European mutts. And my mom's side was mostly Hungarian.

I think I'm more Neanderthal than Swede.

Oh mein Gott. Wow.

Romantic to be... Well, here's the other thing. My dad was really smart and he wanted to get a good education. The seminary offered him that. So he got classically educated.

Ja, ich meine, es ist sehr, es ist, aber es ist so Theater, wie Kirche ist Theater. Und jetzt hat mein Vater seinen Weg zurück nach dem Theater gefunden. Er hat diesen Trupp von Leuten auf seinem Bar gefunden und sie haben nur Harvey gemacht. Und jetzt hilft er ihnen, ein Spiel zu schreiben. Es ist sehr, ich bin so stolz. Ich liebe es. Ich habe es noch nicht gesehen.

Ich habe schon einen witzigen, guten Akzent gemacht.

I don't know. Nobody could really identify what it was, but I gotta ask him about that.

A little bit vague. You kind of can't place it. I specialize in those. Everybody thinks I'm not American. Or I'm deaf. They think I'm German or deaf. They think I talk funny.

Oh ja, ich wollte es. Ich wollte Teil davon sein. Ich liebte die Kirche. Ich liebte singen. Ich liebte mich selbst zu verurteilen. Wie viele Brüder hast du?

Ich bin in der Mitte von fünf. Das ist ziemlich katholisch. Ja. Und meine Eltern haben sogar einen adoptiert.

Super intensiv, ja.

I mean, they're Americans in the Midwest. It's not great. It's really hard. It's hard to make a living. It's hard to pay your bills. My siblings have sort of various degrees. We sort of are kind of representative of a certain kind of American family that's been here for many generations. Some of us went to college and some of us didn't. One of them is an immigrant.

We kind of represent all things. I've got a chef. I have a general manager. I have somebody who didn't go to college who kind of works in a trucking company. My sister, who is mentally ill and struggles in the world. Is El Salvadoran. Has the adopted child. Always going to feel like she was abandoned on some level. It's really an intense psychology to be adopted.

Yeah, it's really... And back then, when my sister was adopted from El Salvador, which was in the middle of a civil war, they were just like, good luck, Christians. There was no trauma counseling. There was no sense of, like, telling my parents, like, hey, get ready. There could be some real deep psychological shit going on.

They weren't... And they come from a generation that, like, it's all Stoicism. Nobody was going to therapy.

I was the first person in my family to go to therapy.

Absolut.

Nein, meine Familie ist sehr klassisch-liberal, weil mein Vater, wiederum, er war beteiligt.

Mein Vater versteht, dass es andere Religionen gibt, dass Gott, er glaubt an Gott, aber er glaubt, dass Gott zu verschiedenen Menschen in verschiedenen Wegen appelliert wird, was ich finde, ist eine wirklich respektvolle Art, darüber nachzudenken. Und meine Mutter ist ein bisschen wie, ich behandle alle gleich, wenn das falsch ist, glaube ich, dass ich in die Hölle gehe.

Yeah, it is. And she would just like smoke cigarettes at the kitchen table and look at the obituaries, see who died, you know.

Just, you know, you're...

Es ist in der Gesichter. Absolut. Und ich glaube, dass keine von diesen Ärzten zum Arzt gehen und sie alle schlafen. Ich meine, sie sind so bewusst darüber, wie all das aufregend ist. Und ich glaube, meine Mutter ist nicht eine Person der Glauben. Und ich würde sagen, dass sie wahrscheinlich auf dem Spektrum sehr Angst vor dem Tod hat. Whereas my dad feels genuinely prepared.

Yeah, which his parents also were. They were practicing Catholics. They were like, oh, finally.

Yeah, and they were in their 90s. I mean, they also lived good, long lives.

They're adrenaline junkies.

I mean, they're so ready for this dopamine world we're living in.

Yeah, right. And she was always, she was a really good nurse. I mean, she was really good at her job. But sometimes I think that also got the best of her. You know, like her energy was kind of put into that. Yeah, she worked at night.

And she slept during the day.

Und wenn Marianne Jean-Baptiste aufwächst in der neuen Mike-Lee-Film, wie sie aufwächst und ihre Pillow anzieht.

Das Film war schrecklich. Ja, es ist schwer zu sehen, aber er schafft wirklich einen bestimmten Art von Person, der du nur sagst, oh nein, was ist mit dir passiert? Ich habe mit ihm gesprochen.

Ja, er macht wunderschöne Filme.

Wir haben nicht mal jemanden, der die Arbeitsklasse in diesem Land so behandelt.

Er ist wirklich, ich wette, ich würde ihn gerne treffen.

Ich würde gerne in so einem Prozess involviert sein. Ich finde es so interessant. Du sollst einen Mike-Lee-Film machen. Ja, genau. Du hast recht. Lass mich ihn nennen. Das ist nicht so, wie es funktioniert, Marc. Du weißt, dass das nicht so funktioniert.

The Leftovers?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, you liked Martha, Marcy May Marlene. I listened to your interview with Lizzie because of course, you know, she's my pal.

And that movie is great. I mean, Sean's a great filmmaker. And she's magnificent.

Ja, ich meine, Komik ist smart.

Ich meine, seine Skripte sind alle wirklich persönlich. Ich fühle mich, er ist derjenige, der entscheidet, welche Geschichte er erzählen will. Und dann, wenn er auf dem Set ist, ist er wie ein großer Athlet.

Du weißt, die wirklich guten Direktoren, das ist, wo sie am meisten zu Hause sind, wenn sie auf dem Set sind und das Werk machen. Und er und unser DP, Matthias Erdely, der ist ein wunderschöner DP, sie kommunizierten telepathisch, ich habe noch nie etwas so gesehen. Sie gehen einfach rum in eine Runde, strecken ihre Hände und dann knallen sie und dann machen wir den Schuss.

Und sie haben nie eine Worte gesagt. Und dann fandst du dich auch bald, wie Sean würde sagen, Carrie, und du würdest sagen, ja, ja. Es war so seltsam. Ich habe noch nie so etwas wie das erlebt. Aber ich habe es geliebt und ich liebe Jude und ich liebe diese Kinder. Wir hatten einfach eine tolle Zeit. Aber es ist wie, ich kann es nicht.

Ich weiß, es ist ein wirklich guter Film. Es ist ein älterer Film.

Yeah, thanks.

Yeah, that's such a great scene.

Yeah. And he's like, I mean, Jude would say, I think it's like, there's so much of his father in it too.

It was very profound.

Oh, haben sie dir 1-6 gegeben? 1-4.

Oh, also du hast nicht so weit gekommen, wie wenn die Mädchen verrückt sind, oder?

Es ist ein großes Setup. Ja, natürlich, natürlich.

Ja, für sechs Monate, Mann. Tracy hat die Kinder für sechs Monate behandelt.

Well, yeah, there's a bit more taking turns now. We just don't want to like... There's a version of life where you take your kids all over the world and just like... I know, I talk to actors that do that. Yeah, and I kind of always thought we might be those people.

When my son, you know, my son all the way up until the pandemic, when he was two, he'd been all over with us all around the world and on sets. And then the pandemic hit and then we found out maybe he's like not that kind of kid.

Disruptive? Yeah, like he really likes his routine. He loves school. He loves his school.

And we just don't feel good taking him out.

Yeah, that's true. It's like your family culture, isn't it?

It's pretty tricky. Yeah, exactly. It's weird. I mean, I was going to bring them to L.A. because Tracy's in New Zealand. I was like, are you crazy?

Like three and a half weeks. Oh, okay.

Not six months. It's not the same as six months. But yeah, you really have to weigh all those questions. It's hard to balance two careers.

Well, animals, it's very pure, the animal thing.

I like being away from my kids. I mean, I say that with love. As a woman, it is very powerful to recover your autonomy periodically.

I don't think most moms in the way we're parenting now get to do that. So as a cat mother, you're, you know, of course you're obsessed.

Yeah, and it's such a pure kind of grief too. It's horrible. Having animals is horrible. I had them growing up and I just don't want them ever again.

Because... That's death. That's where you learn about death.

You have 21 dogs since you're six.

Yeah, you have to bury them in the backyard and hope you don't hit one.

Yeah, you do. Yeah, I know. We had one. My grandma and I ended up putting it down. And the vet was like, just so you know, that was a flesh wound. She probably would have survived. And we're like, well, thanks for telling us. We're like, great, now we have to go tell everybody we killed the dog.

Es fühlt sich an, als wäre es das richtige, was du tun würdest.

Yeah, we never got that far because we lived in the country.

Yeah, I mean, I've seen people pay ostentatious amounts of money to keep their animals alive. You gotta let them go. You do, I think.

That's my personal philosophy.

Ja.

Ja, es ist mehr visuell. Ich meine, deine Beziehung zu Tod und Tieren und Land. Wir sind so weit weg von Tod. Es ist wahrscheinlich gut, dass du deine Hände in der Dürre hast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Everything you love will die and pass away.

Richtig, das passiert auch. Du hoffst für die natürliche Art von Dingen. Es geht nicht immer so, natürlich.

Oh, du weißt, ich sah, meine Mutter hasst diese Geschichte, aber ich sah ein Spiel, als ich zehn war, im Akron-Civic-Theater, das ist einer dieser atmosphärischen Theaters, wo sie die Sterne auf dem Boden haben. Es war so wunderschön. Und es gab zehnjährige, es hieß Babes in Toyland. Wie alt warst du? Ich war wahrscheinlich zehn.

And I was like, whoa, those people are my age and they're up there. How did they get to be up there? And I came home and I knew my grandfather after he fought in the Battle of the Bulge in World War II.

Yeah, really intense. He just passed away last year. Did he talk about it? Not until his 80s. You know, when the Leopoldville surfaced, there was the sinking of a submarine that had been covered up, I guess, for decades. His battalion was on the Leopoldville being transferred somewhere and he wasn't on it because they put him on a Jeep to drive something somewhere.

So he had this sense of like having... Having shirked death in that circumstance.

Yeah, a little bit. And that's when he started talking about it. But he didn't like to be with other veterans. He didn't like talking about it. He didn't want people to know.

Can you imagine?

The growing up you had to do?

No, I can't either. I mean, he would talk about seeing his commanders get blown to smithereens.

You know, he was in Arles in France. I don't know what... I mean, it was just horrifying.

The fact that he actually made it. Yeah, none of them did. You know, they didn't talk about it for decades, I feel like.

Ich habe ihn nicht gesehen. Oh, du musst es schauen. Ich bin sicher, dass wir ihn haben, weil Tracy ist verrückt.

Okay, dann muss ich es schauen.

Oh, wow. Oh, wundervoll.

I can't believe I haven't seen it.

Yeah.

That's how I felt when I saw Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence. I feel like I was telling everyone to go see it.

Well, that's why Tracy and I wanted to start like a blog or I don't know what you do now, a podcast. Because I feel like we have all those movies, we own them. And so, you know, when our babysitter, we have this babysitting friend of ours who comes in, she's an actress. And she hadn't seen like Dog Day Afternoon. She hadn't seen Deliverance. She'd seen memes about Deliverance, but she'd never seen.

And like so many kids in this industry have never seen these films.

You just register the scary parts. Right. Yeah. The portent. Yeah.

But you're right, you don't process it.

Thank goodness.

Yeah, I see a play and I come home and I look in the... So I was talking about my grandfather because he ended up doing some community theater when he got out of the war.

But you're dead. Oh, well, I think now he's just competing with me. Okay. Nein, er ist so süß. Ich glaube, er hat ein bisschen in der Schule gearbeitet. Und ich sah das Wethervane Theater, wo es noch existierte und sie hatten generelle Auditions oder so. Und ich sagte meiner Mutter, kann ich das machen? Und meine Mutter war so, nein.

Weil meine Schwester und ich haben unsere kleinen Brüder jedes Wochenende gebildet. Und meine Mutter arbeitete nachts. Sie schlief den ganzen Tag. Sie führte uns nirgendwo.

Sie fragte, ob wir eine Fahrt finden können. Wir waren in der Supermarkt-Store und bauten ihre Zigaretten. Du hattest eine Notiz und du hast deine Mutter Zigaretten gekauft.

Skaggs Drugstore.

Wir gingen zum Acme. Ich habe das nicht gemacht, bis ich in der Highschool-Jugend war. Ich spielte Fußball. Ich war Athletin. Ich habe für den Spiel geaudiert. Ich bekam den Vorschlag in unserer Stadt. Und dann habe ich vier oder fünf Spiele in der Schule gemacht. Wo warst du in der Schule? In der Universität in Mount Union, wie es jetzt heißt. Es ist eine kleine Schule in Ohio. Ohio.

Sie ließen mich Fußball spielen und sie hatten ein bisschen Unterstützung für Akademiker.

Ich habe die Majors achtmal verändert. I was a business and Japanese major for the first two weeks. How was your Japanese? Terrible. I changed majors immediately. I was like, business? I'm insane. And I think I ended up in education for a while. And then I did a classroom observation. I was like, I'm not special enough to be an educator. And then I did philosophy for a while. How'd that go?

You know, I loved it, but you know. Ich hatte genug Kredite, um ein Englisch-Lit-Major zu werden. Ich studierte in Spanien und wurde ein Spanisch-Lit-Major, aber ich studierte nicht Theater.

Oh Gott, der Vergangenheit ist wirklich weg. Ich versuche es zu üben. Jeden Jahr sage ich, mein Duolingo ist das, aber ich bin schrecklich und ich bin so traurig. Ich meine, es würde zurückkommen, wenn ich den Eindruck gemacht hätte, aber ich habe keine Zeit, etwas zu tun.

Well, I did plays in college and I had a professor who said, I think you could go to graduate school for acting. Now, I grew up in Ohio. I didn't know about Juilliard. I didn't know about NYU. So I wasn't, I didn't have any aspirations. So I ended up at UW Madison in Wisconsin.

Ten actors for three years. They were remaking the program.

It's a great town. It's a great college town.

Yeah, I bet.

It's a great, you know, it is. I loved being there. And it was a great place to pay attention to myself for three years in my 20s.

Yeah, ten actors. Drei Jahre.

Yes, you know, they were, I feel like my teachers were very different and had different philosophies about what we were trying to accomplish there. But I had a great voice teacher, Susan Sweeney, who'd come from the PTT program in Delaware, which is kind of a notorious EST program. They try out all the EST technology on those kids. Oh, yeah. Anyway, but she was a great voice teacher.

She had some of that.

Yeah, sure. She used it effectively to get in there for us. But I realized, having been from the Midwest, I had never maybe taken a deep breath. My voice was not in my body.

I don't think it's self-affirmation. Have you ever gone to the Landmark Forum?

Ist es eine Art von... Ich denke, dass das Leben leer und unbedeutend ist und es leer und unbedeutend ist, dass es leer und unbedeutend ist, wäre die überraschende Philosophie.

Yeah, there is. Because they're like, oh, that's yours. That doesn't belong to me. So you can't hold them responsible for anything. Because they're like, well, that's your experience that you're having that I did not cause.

Yeah, it really is. But the voice work was amazing and really life-changing for me. Und dann habe ich nur noch Spiele gemacht.

Also bin ich in den American Players Theater in Spring Green, Wisconsin, in einem fantastischen Outdoor Shakespeare Theater, der schon lange da ist. Hast du Shakespeare gemacht? Ich habe Shakespeare gemacht, ich habe Chekhov gemacht, ich habe, du weißt, Eugene O'Neill, die großen Spiele unter den Sternen. Und es ist ein 1100-Siegel-Haus draußen.

Und du musst herausfinden, wie du diesen Raum wahrlich füllen kannst.

Oh yeah, I mean, the audience has grown up with them. Generations of families are coming to the theater. It's a beautiful place. I highly recommend people go.

You do, your presence and your voice, which is hard for a little lady. And you're in these, you know, you're outside and so there's rain and there's thunder and lightning. There's all the conditions you have to fight against as well. And you're in upholstery fabrics so they don't get ruined and... Yeah, I was there. And a lot of the directors working out there were Chicago based.

Everything's made of upholstery fabric. And like, you know, you have to be nice to people because they won't wipe the mosquitoes off your face when you're playing a dead body. And then so the directors, James Bonin, who worked at a theater in Chicago, gave me my first job in Chicago. And then I was auditioning at Steppenwolf and I was getting called back.

And then eventually my first job on the main stage was was Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. And that play ended up going to Broadway. And I met Tracy. And that's the play that changed my life.

Ja, weil wir auf Broadway gingen.

Ich meine, jeder, der es gefunden hat, war weg. Laurie Metcalf, all diese Leute haben sich gewechselt. Es war die neue Generation. Und Tracy war wie, ich weiß nicht, was du ihn anschaust. Ist er wie die dritte Generation von Steppenwolf oder so? Ja, ich glaube so. Also war ich die eine, die unter ihm kam. War er nicht da, als du da warst?

Yeah, this is like post, I mean, this is post August Osage County. I mean, he's kind of the man who was sort of responsible for funding the theater at that point because of his plays. But Tracy and I were, yeah, he'd been, I mean, he and Amy Morin had played married like, I don't know, 12 times or something by then.

And so that's where Tracy and I met. And then that play went to Broadway. And that's when I started going to casting directors in New York. And I had done commercials and one guest star spot on TV.

Ich denke, in den frühen Tagen war es das wahrscheinlich, weil sie nur hungrige Studenten waren. Das, was Steppenwolf bringt und warum ich denke, dass Chicago Theater singulär ist, ist die Ensemble-Ethik, dass es um... It's about telling a story. It's not about one person who stands out from the ensemble. So it's always about what is the best choice you make to tell the story.

And that's a great philosophy for theater. And I think that's what makes Chicago actors really unique and special.

It was, right. And it's a yes-and town.

That's right. And like T.J. and Dave in The Herald was like the hour long.

It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot to go through. But it's fun to watch. Gosh, it's a hoot. Sometimes Tracy and Mike Shannon do it with those guys and it's really fun to watch. They do The Herald? Yeah, they do The Herald with T.J. and Dave. Tracy was supposed to do it a few weeks ago in New York, but he had to bow out because I think everybody was sick or something.

Family, you know, blah.

Yeah, good times.

Yeah, I mean, no, I was playing Honey. So I was playing the younger. I mean, we're 15 years apart. I was playing the younger couple and he was playing George and Martha.

Yeah, I mean, he's very, you know, it's funny. Tracy, he wouldn't claim to ever being an athlete, but he's really in his body. And as an actor, he's such an embodied actor. It makes him so great on stage. He's great on stage.

Yeah, he was with Annette. Yeah, all my sons. Yeah, he was beautiful in that.

Oh, you did?

Oh, he had a great time with James. He loved working on Ford v Ferrari.

It's the best scene. I mean, my grandfather talked about that scene until he died. He loved that movie. He used to watch it when it came on TV. That was his favorite part Tracy ever did. But yeah, because Tracy is really claustrophobic and he was genuinely afraid in that rig. The rig is really fast. Mike, I remember he said that Matt Damon was like, man, you're so pale. Are you alright?

He's like, no, I'm not okay. So like the crying I think came easily, but it's so funny. It's hilarious.

Ich meine, wir sprechen über alles. Das ist das Schöne an einem Verheirat, wo alles auf dem Tisch ist. Du sprichst über alles. Wir lieben zusammen zu arbeiten. Wir sind gut zusammen. Wir haben eine Produktionfirma. Ich bin sehr schuldig darüber. Aber ich habe viele seiner Spiele gemacht. Wir haben nicht so viel zusammengearbeitet seit Virginia Woolf.

Es ist ein seltsamer Weg, in Liebe zu fallen.

Ich weiß nicht, wir waren beide in anderen Beziehungen. Ich war sowieso ein Serial-Overlapper. Das war mein Ding für eine lange Zeit. Das ist, was die Leute tun. Wenn du keine Grenzen hast und du möchtest keinen Konflikt haben, dann gehst du davon aus.

Wirst du jetzt mit mir verabschieden? Ja, es ist eine schreckliche... Was ist mit dem No-Boundary-Ding?

Ich weiß. Und du musst wirklich bewusst sein, darüber zu lernen, wenn du es nicht weißt.

Das ist richtig. Es ist schrecklich.

Du sagst nichts Nein.

Alles hat eine Kost. Du bist schrecklich vor allem. Und es ist schrecklich.

Es ist schrecklich. Aber Tracy und ich, wir sahen, ich meine, er hatte auch so Patterns in seinem Leben. Und es war so, ich sehe dich da drüben. Und wir sind nicht glücklich. Wir haben keine dieser Hang-Ups.

Wir wollten niemals mit der Polizei zusammen sein. Es ist also schön, in einer Beziehung zu sein, in der wir immer darüber sprechen können, weißt du, wer dich auf der Bühne interessiert. Oh, wirklich? Oh, ja, absolut. Es ist so lustig. Ich liebe es. Er sieht... Tracy ist der Typ der Person, die alle auf der Straße sieht, wenn er geht. Und jede Frau. Er bemerkt jede Frau auf der Straße.

Und er sagt mir immer, wem er eine Freude hat. Es ist lustig. Es ist interessant, zu wissen, worauf dein Partner ist. Ja. Ich denke, es ist... Es ist schrecklich. Aber es geht nie über die Linie. Ja. Ja. Ja. Und was ich glaube, Tracy und du haben vielleicht ein bisschen darüber gesprochen, aber ich glaube nicht, dass er mir das sagen würde.

Ich glaube, Tracy hat dann von einer sehr jungen Zeit, weil er durch es durchging, dass er niemandem eine menschliche Erfahrung begrüßen würde. In der Tat, jeder Tag nach dem, für ihn war es ein Geschenk, das er bekommen hat, um in der Welt zu bleiben. Und ich glaube, er erkennt das. Und er hat sich wie eine Person von Appetiten umgebracht und wie er bemerkt hat, dass wir diese Proklivien haben.

Und tatsächlich, wir sind nicht wirklich, Monogamie ist etwas, was wir uns auf uns selbst geimpft haben. Wir mussten Babys haben und sterben, als wir 30 waren. Und das ist nicht mehr so, wie es ist. Und ich denke, du musst immer offen sein, was dich fühlt, was dich in der Welt engagiert und was deine Vorstellung und deine Leidenschaft beeinflusst.

Und ich denke, wenn du, wenn du dir bereit bist, offen zu sein, dann lebst du eine mehr vollen Leben. Und ich denke nicht, dass wir beide wollen, dass wir

You also have to be willing to unpack that stuff. And Tracy and I are both, you know, we're both in recovery. We both have done a lot of like AA, Al-Anon, therapy. We have a lot of that language in our house.

I mean, I'm four years in.

I'm actually like kind of double winner. I'm AA, Al-Anon.

I kind of started in Al-Anon and then I was like, well, I actually don't need the other thing either. So our kids are being raised in this like incredibly even keel. Like there's nothing volatile in my house.

It is about taking responsibility. And you know, Mark, I had a very serious impulse control disorder. I mean, I was a skin picker from two. I've talked about it a little bit publicly.

It's an impulse control disorder. You know, like people who pick scabs, but then eventually it moved to my scalp. So I was like losing hair. Were you a nail biter? Nein, ich war nur ein Skin Picker. Du brauchst deine Zähne, um deinen Skin zu picken, Marc. Und du weißt, es ist ein überaktives Grooming, aber es ist Impulskontrolle. Und es war wirklich für eine lange Zeit debilitierend.

Und ich habe es auch als Entschuldigung benutzt, um aus schwierigen Gesprächen zu kommen. Wie, ich kann diese Gespräche nicht haben. Es macht wirklich, es triggert mich wirklich.

Yeah, yeah, cool.

I just have like the kind of like work a day, you know, Midwestern sort of alcoholism around, right, family disease kind of stuff. Und es ist so, wer hat das nicht? Oh Gott, well, it's like any compulsion. It's like hungry, angry, lonely, tired, bored, oversimulated, undersimulated, not living authentically. I mean, all the triggers, the triggers I feel like are the same.

Yes, and I also found that it was a, what I've discovered in my process of learning to deal with it, and I would consider myself recovered, is that it's also like, it's an absenting of self. There's a withdrawal that happens, right? There's a dopamine, there's a brain component, right? You create a stimulus that's actually chemical in your brain. That's the thing you're addicted to.

And I realized there was like a... You can actually start to... Ja, genau. Ja, das ist wahr. Yeah, there is an annihilation of self.

It is some other weird thing. Und ich denke, das ist das, was mich auf die Straße geführt hat. Ich weiß nicht, diese Frage von, du weißt, in dieser Art buddhistischen Philosophie, wo du sprichst, wie kein Selbst. Ja. Und einfach so, wie die einzige Sache, von der du sicher sein kannst, ist, dass alles verändert wird. So, dass alles innerhalb von dir, es gibt keine Person da.

Es gibt kein Zentrum für diese Dinge. Und die Geschichte, die du erzählst. Ja. Ja, es tut. Ich erinnere mich nicht an irgendwas.

Yeah, isn't that funny? And that was like the way you asserted who you were was like, here are my 10 stories I always end up telling. And it gets really exhausting.

Well, I don't know. That's interesting.

Like that's the...

Yeah, that if you say your need, that someone will actually be there to meet it.

But it's also very egotistical. In a way. Ja. Ja. And that's like, that's the gift where you start to go, oh, and actually, I've probably underestimated everybody on some level.

Because of, you know, controlling information is egotistical ultimately.

It's self-protective, right. Yeah. But like, but then you come back to the, it's like, what are you protecting, you know? Right. What's the self you're protecting?

And I'm kind of like, well, maybe there's nobody in there.

I don't know. I kind of start, I'm starting, the older I get, the more I'm like, it's just like these impulses and...

Aber es ist mehr Spaß, ich denke, es ist mehr Spaß, zu wissen, dass es da ist und es da ist und es da ist. Well, yeah, well, I mean, I make yourself.

Right. And you find that liberating.

Yeah, that is nice. Well, isn't that the lovely thing about acting? Is that invitation, though, outside of...

Yeah, I guess that's true. I mean, there's something about them that's also interesting or attractive. There's something they have, I guess, at the core that's interesting or maybe. Is that true for everybody?

I think some actors are, I mean, I feel like there are celebrities and there are actors.

I'm going to take that on as a challenge to see who I can find that I think remakes themselves the most.

So you see it, but you don't see that on film generally, like you don't experience that with actors on film.

No, there is no right or wrong. When you watch yourself, do you watch yourself? Yeah. Me too. And are you looking for the things that are your habits?

I don't think your experience is limited. How long do you think you can get away with saying that? I feel like you act a lot.

Right, of course, you're doing that all the time, yeah.

Oh, okay.

Oh, das ist interessant, weil ich dich natürlich untertäuschend finde. Ich habe deine Sets gesehen und ich denke an sie als sehr untertäuschend, auch wenn du über die Dinge sprichst, die ich am am meisten interessiert bin, wie das Ende der Welt.

Und dann wie fühlt es sich? Fühlt es sich anders in deinem Körper, wenn du das tust?

Ich weiß.

Weil die nächste Zeit du, oh, ja, niemand hat diesen Film gesehen, ist ein trauriges Statement zu machen. Aber auch ich liebte es, den Film zu machen, den niemand sah. Das ist, wo mein Leben gelebt wurde. Mein Leben wurde nicht gelebt, wenn es rauskam. Ja. Und dann kannst du deinen Film sehen, auch wenn es niemand anderes macht.

and say, oh, there's that thing I do when I'm mad. Maybe next time I'm mad, I'll try not to do that thing.

Yeah, and like that way you don't, then you are remaking yourself, I think, in a more interesting way. I don't know how successful I am at that, but I just know that that's something I'm trying to do.

Yeah, be like, oh no, like I do this thing with my jaw whenever I'm playing, like that's not, if you're, again, it's just like the way you're, It's the same thing as reactivity. If you're always acting in your relationships out of a pattern you have, and it's unexamined, it's the same in acting. It's like, oh, I always do that.

When I'm playing a character who's mad, it's like, why are my shoulders up to my ears every time? Why can't I stand up straight?

It's a fundamental question that our grandparents were always asking.

Oh, well, that's good, as long as you know.

Oh, see? Aww.

Look at you taking notes.

You're like, in some scenes you did.

Mm hmm.

Das ist das, was ich hasse, wenn Leute sagen, dass Akteure die besten Lügen sind. Ich sage, nein, nein, nein, es ist tatsächlich die Wahrheit. Es ist nicht Lügen, es ist die andere Sache.

Nein, es ist nicht das. Es ist eigentlich radikal die andere Sache.

Ja, ja. Ich meine, so viele Akteure sind so unangenehm, Publizität zu machen oder ihre Bildung zu nehmen. Sie sind eine der am meisten traurigsten Menschen, die ich kenne, sind Akteure.

Yeah, well, there's probably something to be said for that. A little mystery is probably good. You shouldn't be operating at full disclosure.

Oh, yeah. Well, that's like, that's his stuff, right?

I guess the last thing was Tracy's show. You know, the winning time on the Showtime show.

That's the last thing I remember.

The appealing thing was working with Mike White. I've always been a fan of Mike's work. I think Enlightened is a genius television show. Chuck and Buck I love. I just think there's nobody quite like him. And the show is obviously in the business. Everyone's trying to get on the White Lotus. And there was a part for me, so I auditioned for it.

Ich weiß nicht, sie war nicht, ich habe eine, ich, wenn ich ein Skript lese, habe ich das Gefühl, dass ich, wenn ich es mir vorstelle, es mache, dann bin ich so, ja, das ist mein, ich würde gerne von diesem Ding gehen. Ja, ja. Oder ich bin so, oh, du weißt, du brauchst, du weißt, ich stelle immer die Sache für.

Und ich habe das wirklich gefühlt. Ja, sie ist nicht, ich meine, sie ist nicht so weit von mir. Ich fühle mich, als ob das Skript kontemporär und verfügbar ist. Ja. Und es ist nicht wie die Gilded Age, richtig? Es ist nicht so, als ob es einen Dialekt und ein Korsett oder etwas gibt. Du bist einfach nur an deiner Bathe-Suit.

Und du weißt, sie ist ein Alkoholiker, was ich komplett verstehe. Und... Oh, yeah. He's also not arbitrary. So it's very exactly, he knows what he needs. And if he's not getting it, you will stay there until he gets it.

So like you were saying about your movie, it's satisfying at the end of the day, because you're like, I don't think we would have gone home if Mike didn't get what he needed for the show.

Well, you know, it happens. But, you know, we're like, well, I don't think you know what you're doing. So I guess I'll try to throw some stuff out there.

Wo sind wir in der Geschichte? Ja.

Well, I mean, I don't want to speak to, my people are all still around.

But there's, you know, I'll just say there's alcoholism in my family.

And what I came to understand is that I had some emotional habits.

Things about like not trusting other people, lying. I was a compulsive liar.

Absolutely. Like completely constitutionally incapable of any conflict or any boundary setting. So I actually had a boyfriend once. I needed to break up with him and I just literally stopped speaking. And he actually came over with a pack of paper and a pencil and said, could you just write something down? I mean, I could not speak. That's how terrible I was at asserting what I needed or wanted.

So much so I think for, maybe men can speak to this too, but I know for women it's like, you spend so much time managing other people's emotions. As a middle child too, I was always aware, everybody, you know, you're only as happy as the unhappiest person in any room. And then you like, you lose complete track of what it is you even want.

You're like, is it me that wants this or am I just like reading what this person wants from me?

Exactly. And I was just remaking myself in the image of whatever boyfriend I was with.

And staying with them until I wanted to explode, but couldn't say that either. Yeah. You know, it was just like terrible.

And it was very, you know, like I said, controlling information is really egotistical.

It just presumes they can't take, they can't.

Oder dass jemand dich benötigt, dass er ohne dich nicht leben kann. Das war das, was ich wirklich liebte.

Nein, du hast keinen. Und du bist so hyper-kompartmentalisiert. Du schaust nur immer Code an. Und es gibt nichts, was dich als Person integriert. Du bist nur ein Amalgam eines Persons.

Yeah.

And there's unity in it. Yeah. And there's like the right kind of attention. Yeah. Weirdly, there's probably like you have some control over the.

You also have freedom. Also like nothing you're doing inside of that performance is, no one else is being like, is that how you're going to, you know, there's no one judging the way you're living your life, which I was also deeply uninterested in. Sometimes it gets a little competitive, I think.

Ja, ich meine, das ist wahr. Du willst nicht essen, um zu essen. Das ist wahr. Ja.

Ja.

Ja, ich fühlte mich so mit Holly Hunter.

Oh, komplett. Ich war verärgert.

Ich musste mich wirklich vorbereiten und präsent sein. Ich glaube nicht, dass ich das gemacht habe. Ich war die ganze Zeit erschrocken. Sie ist furchtbar. Ich liebe sie so sehr. Und sie war für mich unglaublich in diesem Film, den wir gemacht haben. Aber sie ist ein furchtbarer Partner in der Szene, weil sie das drin hat. Sie ist wie eine Katze oder wie ein Live Wire.

Und du denkst dir, oh, du könntest mich töten. Du könntest mich jetzt tatsächlich töten. Du könntest. Ich würde es nicht sehen, es zu kommen. Ja. And she's so alive.

Given circumstances, right?

That's good. That's good. That's like, you know, it's acting 101 in a way, but it's like, Du warst immer so, oh, die Basics. Ich musste zurück in die Basics.

Ja, geh außerhalb von dir und whatever your neuroses are. Du musst das mit der Tür beobachten.

Das ist verrückt. Das ist das Gute, es kann nicht über dich sein.

I know, but that's the exercise you're doing, though.

I mean, it's funny. I don't... Vicky Kreeps hat etwas gesagt, die großartige Schauspielerin Vicky Kreeps. Sie hat gesagt, dass sie jetzt die Arbeit in einem Take ansieht. Sie sagt, wie falsch kann ich gehen? Wie weit außerhalb von dem, was dieser Charakter tut, kann ich gehen? Und sie hat gesagt, das ist, was Wissenschaftler tun.

Sie versuchen tatsächlich, sich in die Sache zu nähern, indem sie die Parameter setzen, die weit außerhalb von dem, was sie suchen. Das ist ein guter Weg, darüber nachzudenken. Und ich habe immer gefühlt, dass diese Art von Selbstbewusstsein immer in meinem Weg gekommen ist. Also, um aus deiner eigenen Weise auszugehen, musst du dir bereit sein, eine Ausgabe zu machen.

Du musst dir bereit sein, zu sagen, sorry, alle. Das war so schlecht. Und wieder versuchen. Und als junger Schauspieler und als junge Frau, wo du versuchst, eine gute Frau und eine gute Studentin zu sein, versuchst du, zu glauben, was jeder dir tun möchte. Und dann machst du nicht wirklich Entscheidungen. Und du machst sicher nicht interessante Entscheidungen.

Und du gibst nicht eine Reihe von Entscheidungen.

And you do. You have to believe that.

You have to believe that. And I learned that all the way back in Virginia Woolf. I was like, okay, you got this job. You have this job. And now you have to be in that room like you have this job, not like you're trying to get this job. You already have it. And that's like a little click, but it's really important.

I love Fincher.

He wouldn't?

He's so controlling. God, I love him so much.

Oh, he was wonderful to me. I had a wonderful experience. That was my first movie I ever made, Mark. I'd never made a movie before and then I was working with David Fincher.

Oh, ich meine, die Leute wussten, dass sie verabschiedet werden würden. Die Leute werden verabschiedet von David Fincher-Filmen.

Ja, absolut. Wir haben oft 88 Fotos oder 71 Fotos gemacht. Und dann, jedes Mal, wenn du fünf Fotos machst, wäre er so... Ben war so froh, da zu sein. Ben Affleck, er ist Direktor, es war erstaunlich für ihn, da zu arbeiten. Er war immer hinter der Kamera, um zu sehen, was David machte, warum er es machte und zu sprechen mit dem DP. Er sagte, komm schon, du musst in der Szene sein.

Aber er gab Ben immer so viel Scheiß. Wenn ich etwas in fünf Filmen bekommen würde, würde er sagen, Carrie, das war exzellent. Ben, könntest du ein bisschen weniger so ein Nambulant sein? Er war so ein Scheiß. Ich erinnere mich, es gab einen Film mit Kim Dickens. Er hat gesagt, dass man den Katzen bemerkt. Und dann kommt Kim rein und macht den Film.

Und er sagt, Kim, es ist das erste Mal, dass du diesen Katzen gesehen hast, nicht einen Katzen. Das ist einfach seine Art.

Ja, ja, ich liebe sie. Sie ist eine sehr liebe Freundin. Wir hatten einen tollen Tag da unten in Cape. Sie waren alle sehr, sehr generös für mich in diesem Job. Und meine Leute sind wirklich sarkastisch und wirklich dunkel. Und immer dich in deinem Platz zu stellen. Also für mich war es Liebe-Language. So I got along great with David.

And I said to David, I was like, David, you hired somebody who's never made a movie before. I don't know the language. I don't, when you say screen direction, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. But if you explain it to me, I can do it. And he was so wonderful. He'd be like, come here, look at the frame. This is really tight. You got to glide out on your foot. Okay, glide. Okay.

You know, and he just taught me so much.

But he's like an athlete in that he's got this incredible field vision. He's seeing everything at once. And that's why you can't make it about you. If it's about you, he'll tell you. Don't assume it's about you unless he tells you. It's probably about the fact that, I remember I heard him say one time to the DP, he's like, here's your frame. He goes, that's not my frame.

Because my frame has 12 rafters and yours has 13. You know, like that kind of level of control. So intense, but I adore him.

Because it seems like there's a... Well, when you're doing a play, you rehearse for five weeks.

Yelling on set?

I know. We hate table... As theater actors, we hate film table reads because everyone's just like mumbling. It's like, I can't hear you. I can't hear what you're... It's just... We're just reading it out loud in a room. Could you read it out loud? I know Tracy and I are always laughing about that. Like, why are you mumbling in here?

Yeah, in a way. I mean, I always feel like, you know, on stage, the thing about it is that your body is always telling a story in space. And so you have to be really economical. Because any move you make, everybody can see it. And you will either distract or add to the story, depending on what you're doing. Like standing in front of a chair, but not sitting in it. You know, like that kind of stuff.

And so when you have that experience, I feel like... Dann sogar auf der Kamera, vielleicht ist es mehr im Körper.

Ja, ich finde es immer so, wenn Leute in ihren Körpern sind, denke ich, es ist wirklich sexy. Es ist mir sehr empfehlenswert. Und ich fühle mich, dass ich Akteure sehe, die manchmal... Auch wenn sie versuchen, sich aus ihrem Körper auszuhalten? Ja, das auch. Das kann wirklich visuell sein.

Aber du weißt es immer. Das zählt, das zählt, absolut. Ich gebe dir das an. Auch im Theater, das andere, was die Leute nicht verstehen, wenn die Kinder in der TV bekannt werden wollen, sie verstehen es nicht. Ich erinnere mich an einen meiner Arbeiten, als ich einen Gaststarspot machte. Ich hielt jemanden hostage. Und ich schrie und hielt eine Waffe. Und es war wie ein 17-Stunden-Tag. Ja.

Also schrie ich den ganzen Tag. Ja. Na, weißt du, wenn du nicht weißt, wie du deine Stimme benutzt, weil du nie ein 1100-Siegel-Haus in Wisconsin gefüllt hast. Ja. Du wirst deine Stimme verlieren. Es ist nicht einfach, so etwas für 17 Stunden zu machen. Und ich glaube, Theater gibt dir auch ein bisschen Stamina.

Oh nein, ich meine, nein, es war hoffnungsvoll. Netflix hat uns wirklich gut geholfen, glaube ich, und wir hatten einen tollen Film. Es ist ein tolles Film, ich mag Ozzy, er ist ein toller Kerl. Danke, ich weiß, ich weiß, du hast mit ihm gesprochen, ich liebe ihn und Tracy liebt ihn. Ich bin so froh, dass ich mit ihm arbeiten konnte.

Und ich liebe Lizzie und Natasha, wir hatten einen wirklich besonderen Prozess, den wir immer haben werden. We were hopeful that it could crack something. We're getting the Robert Altman Award of the Indie Spirits. That's an ensemble award. Yeah, that's a wonderful award.

Oh no, it's this month. Tracy's flying in from New Zealand.

I don't know, Mark. I'm one day at a time.

Maybe.

Where all the toxic ash is washing away into the ocean now.

Oh, no.

I'm not going to do that. I'm going to present an award, I think. But I'll avoid all the earnestness.

Oh.

Oh, Patton. I worked with Patton in Ghostbusters.

Yeah. Oh, wait. He thought I was in, what's the, what's the, what's the, you know, Pedro Pascal's show.

Yeah, Anna Torv is in it.

And Patton, when he saw me on the set of Ghost, he was like, oh my God, my daughter and I love your show. Can I take your picture? I was like, honey, Patton. That's not much... Ich bin nicht Anatoor. Das ist Anatoor. Und er war so, oh mein Gott. Er fühlte sich so schlimm an. Aber es war eigentlich lustig. Ich lache jetzt, jedes Mal, wenn ich ihn sehe. Das ist großartig.

Ich bin so, nein, Patton, das ist nicht ich.

Ja, ich meine, Jason Reitmans erstes Ghostbusters-Skript, Ghostbusters Afterlife, fühlte sich wie ein Indie-Film an. Es fühlte sich wie ein Jason Reitman-independentes Film an. Und McKenna Grace ist eine tolle junge Schauspielerin und der Fakt, dass sie die Protagonistin des Films sein wird, war großartig. Also das fühlte sich wie ein Indie-Film an.

Ich mag Jason sehr. Ja, er ist ein Freund.

Ja, Up in the Air. Das war der, der ihn auf den Indien-Map gelegt hat.

Ich weiß, es ist ein toller Film.

Ich habe über 10.000 DVDs in meinem Haus, also haben wir keine Zeit, sie wiederzusehen.

Das ist schön. Findest du es komfortabel?

Oh, Mark, how are we going to get you some boundaries, honey?

Oh, well, that's okay. That's another kind of reactivity to rely on, I guess. An aggressive boundary. Maybe you need to go that far and then, you know, come back from it, maybe.

You do. You have to detach with love.

Totally. Oh, God. 28-year-old me really relates to that, Mark. I would have absolutely gotten back together.

Ich dachte, ich gehe einfach nach Spanien. Und meine Großmutter schrieb mir diese unglaubliche Letter, wo sie sagte, sie sah alles passieren. Sie lernte nicht zu sagen Nein bis in ihren 70ern, was sie sehr offen war. Und sie sagte, Schmerz ist nicht das gleiche wie Liebe. And it doesn't dignify the other person. It doesn't give them any autonomy.

They're not making any decisions if you're not giving them all the information. It's like, I don't want to do this anymore.

It's awful. And then everybody eventually winds up where they should be, I think.

Oh, sometimes it takes too long.

It could have been a much shorter story. People could have gotten on with it a little faster. I know it's terrible.

Yeah, I'm so good. I have an amazing life and I have a really good partner, as you know.

You too. Thanks for having me.

Monkey and La Fonda.

Cat Angels everywhere.

Okay.

Okay.