Carol Leonnig

That's the one where you're supposed to register as an agent of a foreign government if you're lobbyists for them. That enforcement tool is less worrisome, even though that's been neutered as well, is less worrisome to many of the sources that I speak to.

That's the one where you're supposed to register as an agent of a foreign government if you're lobbyists for them. That enforcement tool is less worrisome, even though that's been neutered as well, is less worrisome to many of the sources that I speak to.

But foreign corrupt practices, you know, this has been a mainstay for keeping our city on a hill modeling as a country and demanding it of other countries. And so what's funny to me, funny is not the right word. What's ironic to me is this is what Trump wanted in 2017. And I reported on this in a book that I wrote with my colleague, Phil Rucker, a very stable genius.

But foreign corrupt practices, you know, this has been a mainstay for keeping our city on a hill modeling as a country and demanding it of other countries. And so what's funny to me, funny is not the right word. What's ironic to me is this is what Trump wanted in 2017. And I reported on this in a book that I wrote with my colleague, Phil Rucker, a very stable genius.

Trump had basically confronted Rex Tillerson, not really part of the Justice Department firmament. He was the Secretary of State. And while they're sitting together talking, Trump says, look, I want to get rid of this Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, this bribery statute. It's just not a level playing field for American business people because they can't bribe. And that is so classic Trump, right?

Trump had basically confronted Rex Tillerson, not really part of the Justice Department firmament. He was the Secretary of State. And while they're sitting together talking, Trump says, look, I want to get rid of this Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, this bribery statute. It's just not a level playing field for American business people because they can't bribe. And that is so classic Trump, right?

Let's level the playing field so everybody can crime. And Tillerson, as I reported at the time, was aghast. First, he was saying, I'm your Secretary of State. Second, that's a law, so I can't undo it. And third, it's really great that we have that protection, that anti-bribery statute.

Let's level the playing field so everybody can crime. And Tillerson, as I reported at the time, was aghast. First, he was saying, I'm your Secretary of State. Second, that's a law, so I can't undo it. And third, it's really great that we have that protection, that anti-bribery statute.

So Trump eventually forgot somewhere along the line, forgot that this was a huge priority of us because he kind of hit that roadblock with Rex Tillerson, though he may have tried to bring it up other places. It didn't go anywhere. But boom, here we are, Trump 2.0, and it's happening.

So Trump eventually forgot somewhere along the line, forgot that this was a huge priority of us because he kind of hit that roadblock with Rex Tillerson, though he may have tried to bring it up other places. It didn't go anywhere. But boom, here we are, Trump 2.0, and it's happening.

It's great to be with you as usual.

It's great to be with you as usual.

You know, what you said just made me think about the lens through which we watch Donald Trump, which is a person who's unapologetically transactional and a real estate investor who thinks about acquiring things. And now, you know, Greenland, Canada, Gaza, and a person who who isn't thinking about sort of the model of America, but is thinking of the model of Donald Trump.

You know, what you said just made me think about the lens through which we watch Donald Trump, which is a person who's unapologetically transactional and a real estate investor who thinks about acquiring things. And now, you know, Greenland, Canada, Gaza, and a person who who isn't thinking about sort of the model of America, but is thinking of the model of Donald Trump.

And that's where we are leaning right now as a country.

And that's where we are leaning right now as a country.

Thank you, Tim, for shining a light.

Thank you, Tim, for shining a light.

No, just, you know, working on my self-care, my nails, nothing going on.

No, just, you know, working on my self-care, my nails, nothing going on.

You know, it's really been a breathtaking set of days. And I don't just mean this to complain about our work-life balance. I just mean, if you are an employee of the FBI, you have experienced every day, maybe two or three events that have been stunners. A week before last, a series of the executive leadership for Chris Wray, the FBI director, all career employees, right?

You know, it's really been a breathtaking set of days. And I don't just mean this to complain about our work-life balance. I just mean, if you are an employee of the FBI, you have experienced every day, maybe two or three events that have been stunners. A week before last, a series of the executive leadership for Chris Wray, the FBI director, all career employees, right?

They're not beholden to Chris Wray, but they are promoted by him into high-level jobs. All of them were brought into a meeting the day before Kash Patel's hearing and told, your names are on a list to go. And the next morning, while Kash Patel is testifying, they are brought again, a larger group of them brought into a meeting that

They're not beholden to Chris Wray, but they are promoted by him into high-level jobs. All of them were brought into a meeting the day before Kash Patel's hearing and told, your names are on a list to go. And the next morning, while Kash Patel is testifying, they are brought again, a larger group of them brought into a meeting that

with their acting directors, Driscoll and Kassane, and told, you got to resign or you'll be fired by Friday. Resign, retire, your choice, but you got to be gone. And we're sorry, we're just the messengers here. Oh, yeah. And over the weekend, all the FBI employees are learning that they are going to be questioned on a formal survey about their role in January 6th.

with their acting directors, Driscoll and Kassane, and told, you got to resign or you'll be fired by Friday. Resign, retire, your choice, but you got to be gone. And we're sorry, we're just the messengers here. Oh, yeah. And over the weekend, all the FBI employees are learning that they are going to be questioned on a formal survey about their role in January 6th.

Did you execute a search warrant? Did you subpoena anybody? Did you interview, testify, arrest? A kind of almost like a survey monkey survey to figure out, you know, what was your role in investigating a violent insurrection and attack on police? So all those things are happening in a string of days while Kash Patel is assuring the

Did you execute a search warrant? Did you subpoena anybody? Did you interview, testify, arrest? A kind of almost like a survey monkey survey to figure out, you know, what was your role in investigating a violent insurrection and attack on police? So all those things are happening in a string of days while Kash Patel is assuring the

the Democrats and the Senate Judiciary Committee that he would never be involved in any political retribution, and he's not aware of any plans to get rid of anybody. Okay, fast forward. Dick Durbin, ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he has multiple quote-unquote whistleblowers. We use the term carefully. Credible sources who come forward to him to say that

the Democrats and the Senate Judiciary Committee that he would never be involved in any political retribution, and he's not aware of any plans to get rid of anybody. Okay, fast forward. Dick Durbin, ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he has multiple quote-unquote whistleblowers. We use the term carefully. Credible sources who come forward to him to say that

that those acting directors, Driscoll and Kassane, were being told at that very moment on Wednesday and Thursday, the Wednesday before the hearing and the Thursday of the hearing, that Kash Patel was the person who wanted these people gone.

that those acting directors, Driscoll and Kassane, were being told at that very moment on Wednesday and Thursday, the Wednesday before the hearing and the Thursday of the hearing, that Kash Patel was the person who wanted these people gone.

In fact, in contemporaneous notes taken by an FBI official, it says KP wants fast movement on this and that Stephen Miller had been calling- Maybe that was Kristaps Porzingis.

In fact, in contemporaneous notes taken by an FBI official, it says KP wants fast movement on this and that Stephen Miller had been calling- Maybe that was Kristaps Porzingis.

Right, right. I mean, I think what's interesting to remember about Kash Patel is that he's an interesting witness on the stand, right? He told the entire public in the middle of the Mar-a-Lago records dispute when it became news and reporters were learning that the FBI was investigating whether Donald Trump was hoarding classified records in 2022.

Right, right. I mean, I think what's interesting to remember about Kash Patel is that he's an interesting witness on the stand, right? He told the entire public in the middle of the Mar-a-Lago records dispute when it became news and reporters were learning that the FBI was investigating whether Donald Trump was hoarding classified records in 2022.

Kash Patel, his loyal soldier, shows up on podcasts and interviews saying, I saw Donald Trump declassify all this stuff. He has ultimate power. I saw him declassify to the fullest extent of the law all of these records, as if the Mar-a-Lago records had been declassified and that wasn't a problem. Later, he was brought before a grand jury, and that's not what he said, according to sources.

Kash Patel, his loyal soldier, shows up on podcasts and interviews saying, I saw Donald Trump declassify all this stuff. He has ultimate power. I saw him declassify to the fullest extent of the law all of these records, as if the Mar-a-Lago records had been declassified and that wasn't a problem. Later, he was brought before a grand jury, and that's not what he said, according to sources.

And in fact, testifying on Thursday last, Patel was pressed on that too and said, hey, wait a minute, I didn't say he declassified all those records. I said I saw him declassify a lot of records. So he's a wily witness, Patel.

And in fact, testifying on Thursday last, Patel was pressed on that too and said, hey, wait a minute, I didn't say he declassified all those records. I said I saw him declassify a lot of records. So he's a wily witness, Patel.

It depends on your view. But if you counted how many times he used that favorite phrase, I can't recall as I sit here today. It's not ringing a bell. But if you gave me more information, you know,

It depends on your view. But if you counted how many times he used that favorite phrase, I can't recall as I sit here today. It's not ringing a bell. But if you gave me more information, you know,

One of the things that FBI employees and justice employees watched with shock as they are literally watching his testimony live in their offices or in their remote work locations, as they're watching this, they're like, wait a minute, you said you don't know some of the prosecutors that were fired in Jack Smith's office? Because there's one particular one that Booker asked him about.

One of the things that FBI employees and justice employees watched with shock as they are literally watching his testimony live in their offices or in their remote work locations, as they're watching this, they're like, wait a minute, you said you don't know some of the prosecutors that were fired in Jack Smith's office? Because there's one particular one that Booker asked him about.

And these were people that interviewed Patel for hours in the grand jury. So how could you forget that person?

And these were people that interviewed Patel for hours in the grand jury. So how could you forget that person?

The problem is, you know, I don't know that we're going to get the answer, Tim. You're absolutely right. There's no gray matter here. It's black, it's white, one or the other. And I'm not going to put a finger on the scale and say who is or isn't telling the truth, because I'm all about facts. But Kash Patel has not been a very careful, precise, or clear narrator in many other instances before.

The problem is, you know, I don't know that we're going to get the answer, Tim. You're absolutely right. There's no gray matter here. It's black, it's white, one or the other. And I'm not going to put a finger on the scale and say who is or isn't telling the truth, because I'm all about facts. But Kash Patel has not been a very careful, precise, or clear narrator in many other instances before.

I mean, debating we... saying he doesn't recollect a prosecutor interviewed him for hours in the grand jury, saying he's not aware of the appointees that are some of his best friends being installed inside the FBI, people we're told he handpicked. But I don't think we're going to get an answer in any timely way.

I mean, debating we... saying he doesn't recollect a prosecutor interviewed him for hours in the grand jury, saying he's not aware of the appointees that are some of his best friends being installed inside the FBI, people we're told he handpicked. But I don't think we're going to get an answer in any timely way.

We've had 17 inspector generals fired by the president in the last several days, right? And now... The Democrats of the Senate Judiciary Committee are asking the inspector general for the Department of Justice, one of the only ones that was not fired, to investigate this as quickly as possible. I don't see how this is going to happen quickly.

We've had 17 inspector generals fired by the president in the last several days, right? And now... The Democrats of the Senate Judiciary Committee are asking the inspector general for the Department of Justice, one of the only ones that was not fired, to investigate this as quickly as possible. I don't see how this is going to happen quickly.

And I think it's going to be challenging for an inspector general to deliver on this question. Because remember, just yesterday, the inspector general for USAID, just to put this in context, was fired as soon as he delivered a report, fairly blistering report, explaining what the impact of Donald Trump's and Doge's cuts in that agency were.

And I think it's going to be challenging for an inspector general to deliver on this question. Because remember, just yesterday, the inspector general for USAID, just to put this in context, was fired as soon as he delivered a report, fairly blistering report, explaining what the impact of Donald Trump's and Doge's cuts in that agency were.

You are one of the best read, most observant folks I know. You know what Speaker Johnson said the other day, which was basically like, I'm delighted about what Elon Musk is doing.

You are one of the best read, most observant folks I know. You know what Speaker Johnson said the other day, which was basically like, I'm delighted about what Elon Musk is doing.

For all the reasons you mentioned and all the questions you've raised, you know, they're about as low as they can go. There was a goodbye party for a person I'm not going to mention. I was not an invitee, just to be clear, but I was reporting a little bit around the edges of this party of a person who'd been forced out.

For all the reasons you mentioned and all the questions you've raised, you know, they're about as low as they can go. There was a goodbye party for a person I'm not going to mention. I was not an invitee, just to be clear, but I was reporting a little bit around the edges of this party of a person who'd been forced out.

And there was a funereal kind of quality as described by several of the guests, you know, like everyone was in the Biden political cadre that ran the Justice Department. Remember, there's only one political at the FBI, but there's quite a few at the Justice Department. That cadre is incredible.

And there was a funereal kind of quality as described by several of the guests, you know, like everyone was in the Biden political cadre that ran the Justice Department. Remember, there's only one political at the FBI, but there's quite a few at the Justice Department. That cadre is incredible.

was preparing for a pretty bracing landing of the 47th president and his administration and what that would mean for the Justice Department and the FBI that is a component. But even they are gobsmacked. And one of the reasons is what you cited, you know, like, you got to believe that at the FBI, truth and truthfulness in congressional testimony would be important.

was preparing for a pretty bracing landing of the 47th president and his administration and what that would mean for the Justice Department and the FBI that is a component. But even they are gobsmacked. And one of the reasons is what you cited, you know, like, you got to believe that at the FBI, truth and truthfulness in congressional testimony would be important.

Another thing that they felt was super important, and they talked about at the party was Kash Patel may be the only nominee for FBI director who felt compelled to to take the Fifth Amendment in testimony in a criminal investigation, the Mar-a-Lago documents case. Adam Schiff mentioned this rather prominently in the hearing, in the confirmation hearing.

Another thing that they felt was super important, and they talked about at the party was Kash Patel may be the only nominee for FBI director who felt compelled to to take the Fifth Amendment in testimony in a criminal investigation, the Mar-a-Lago documents case. Adam Schiff mentioned this rather prominently in the hearing, in the confirmation hearing.

Kash Patel was the, you know, sought to be immunized because he believed he might incriminate himself if he answered questions truthfully in the Mar-a-Lago case and got a federal judge to hear his plea that he could not testify that he had to take the Fifth Amendment and she ultimately agreed and found that he had a reasonable basis to think that he had criminal exposure.

Kash Patel was the, you know, sought to be immunized because he believed he might incriminate himself if he answered questions truthfully in the Mar-a-Lago case and got a federal judge to hear his plea that he could not testify that he had to take the Fifth Amendment and she ultimately agreed and found that he had a reasonable basis to think that he had criminal exposure.

He's walked a really interesting line and he's viewed as extremely heroic by agents across the building. He has a good reputation, right? He's got 24 years of experience, had just been named, I think, the head of the Newark office, a pretty tough office and an important one, especially in terrorism and narcotics. And

He's walked a really interesting line and he's viewed as extremely heroic by agents across the building. He has a good reputation, right? He's got 24 years of experience, had just been named, I think, the head of the Newark office, a pretty tough office and an important one, especially in terrorism and narcotics. And

here he is threading this needle of not getting fired, but assuring his staff that he's not going to let them be illegally fired. And he's going to make, he didn't say these words, but between the lines and all of the memos he's been sending, staying in enormous contact with the staff, you know, large, all agency emails, he has said in a way, I support you. I value your service.

here he is threading this needle of not getting fired, but assuring his staff that he's not going to let them be illegally fired. And he's going to make, he didn't say these words, but between the lines and all of the memos he's been sending, staying in enormous contact with the staff, you know, large, all agency emails, he has said in a way, I support you. I value your service.

And I'm not going to let Emil Bove, the acting deputy attorney general, fire you unless he goes through his paces.

And I'm not going to let Emil Bove, the acting deputy attorney general, fire you unless he goes through his paces.

So there's a lot that's gotten a buzzsaw taken to it in the Department of Justice's arsenal to fight corruption at home and abroad. And abroad, the FCPA is really about like American businessmen and women and companies and lobbyists can't bribe governments abroad to get their fork in that country.

So there's a lot that's gotten a buzzsaw taken to it in the Department of Justice's arsenal to fight corruption at home and abroad. And abroad, the FCPA is really about like American businessmen and women and companies and lobbyists can't bribe governments abroad to get their fork in that country.

we want to avoid corruption of other countries and we want to avoid aiding and abetting it and encouraging it because it's bad for us. It's bad for those countries, but that, tool is basically taken off the table for the government. And it's super worrisome. There are other executive orders by Pampandi, particularly about FARA.

we want to avoid corruption of other countries and we want to avoid aiding and abetting it and encouraging it because it's bad for us. It's bad for those countries, but that, tool is basically taken off the table for the government. And it's super worrisome. There are other executive orders by Pampandi, particularly about FARA.

That's the one where you're supposed to register as an agent of a foreign government if you're lobbyists for them. That enforcement tool is less worrisome, even though that's been neutered as well, is less worrisome to many of the sources that I speak to.

But foreign corrupt practices, you know, this has been a mainstay for keeping our city on a hill modeling as a country and demanding it of other countries. And so what's funny to me, funny is not the right word. What's ironic to me is this is what Trump wanted in 2017. And I reported on this in a book that I wrote with my colleague, Phil Rucker, a very stable genius.

Trump had basically confronted Rex Tillerson, not really part of the Justice Department firmament. He was the Secretary of State. And while they're sitting together talking, Trump says, look, I want to get rid of this Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, this bribery statute. It's just not a level playing field for American business people because they can't bribe. And that is so classic Trump, right?

Let's level the playing field so everybody can crime. And Tillerson, as I reported at the time, was aghast. First, he was saying, I'm your Secretary of State. Second, that's a law, so I can't undo it. And third, it's really great that we have that protection, that anti-bribery statute.

So Trump eventually forgot somewhere along the line, forgot that this was a huge priority of us because he kind of hit that roadblock with Rex Tillerson, though he may have tried to bring it up other places. It didn't go anywhere. But boom, here we are, Trump 2.0, and it's happening.

It's great to be with you as usual.

You know, what you said just made me think about the lens through which we watch Donald Trump, which is a person who's unapologetically transactional and a real estate investor who thinks about acquiring things. And now, you know, Greenland, Canada, Gaza, and a person who who isn't thinking about sort of the model of America, but is thinking of the model of Donald Trump.

And that's where we are leaning right now as a country.

Thank you, Tim, for shining a light.

No, just, you know, working on my self-care, my nails, nothing going on.

You know, it's really been a breathtaking set of days. And I don't just mean this to complain about our work-life balance. I just mean, if you are an employee of the FBI, you have experienced every day, maybe two or three events that have been stunners. A week before last, a series of the executive leadership for Chris Wray, the FBI director, all career employees, right?

They're not beholden to Chris Wray, but they are promoted by him into high-level jobs. All of them were brought into a meeting the day before Kash Patel's hearing and told, your names are on a list to go. And the next morning, while Kash Patel is testifying, they are brought again, a larger group of them brought into a meeting that

with their acting directors, Driscoll and Kassane, and told, you got to resign or you'll be fired by Friday. Resign, retire, your choice, but you got to be gone. And we're sorry, we're just the messengers here. Oh, yeah. And over the weekend, all the FBI employees are learning that they are going to be questioned on a formal survey about their role in January 6th.

Did you execute a search warrant? Did you subpoena anybody? Did you interview, testify, arrest? A kind of almost like a survey monkey survey to figure out, you know, what was your role in investigating a violent insurrection and attack on police? So all those things are happening in a string of days while Kash Patel is assuring the

the Democrats and the Senate Judiciary Committee that he would never be involved in any political retribution, and he's not aware of any plans to get rid of anybody. Okay, fast forward. Dick Durbin, ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he has multiple quote-unquote whistleblowers. We use the term carefully. Credible sources who come forward to him to say that

that those acting directors, Driscoll and Kassane, were being told at that very moment on Wednesday and Thursday, the Wednesday before the hearing and the Thursday of the hearing, that Kash Patel was the person who wanted these people gone.

In fact, in contemporaneous notes taken by an FBI official, it says KP wants fast movement on this and that Stephen Miller had been calling- Maybe that was Kristaps Porzingis.

Right, right. I mean, I think what's interesting to remember about Kash Patel is that he's an interesting witness on the stand, right? He told the entire public in the middle of the Mar-a-Lago records dispute when it became news and reporters were learning that the FBI was investigating whether Donald Trump was hoarding classified records in 2022.

Kash Patel, his loyal soldier, shows up on podcasts and interviews saying, I saw Donald Trump declassify all this stuff. He has ultimate power. I saw him declassify to the fullest extent of the law all of these records, as if the Mar-a-Lago records had been declassified and that wasn't a problem. Later, he was brought before a grand jury, and that's not what he said, according to sources.

And in fact, testifying on Thursday last, Patel was pressed on that too and said, hey, wait a minute, I didn't say he declassified all those records. I said I saw him declassify a lot of records. So he's a wily witness, Patel.

It depends on your view. But if you counted how many times he used that favorite phrase, I can't recall as I sit here today. It's not ringing a bell. But if you gave me more information, you know,

One of the things that FBI employees and justice employees watched with shock as they are literally watching his testimony live in their offices or in their remote work locations, as they're watching this, they're like, wait a minute, you said you don't know some of the prosecutors that were fired in Jack Smith's office? Because there's one particular one that Booker asked him about.

And these were people that interviewed Patel for hours in the grand jury. So how could you forget that person?

The problem is, you know, I don't know that we're going to get the answer, Tim. You're absolutely right. There's no gray matter here. It's black, it's white, one or the other. And I'm not going to put a finger on the scale and say who is or isn't telling the truth, because I'm all about facts. But Kash Patel has not been a very careful, precise, or clear narrator in many other instances before.

I mean, debating we... saying he doesn't recollect a prosecutor interviewed him for hours in the grand jury, saying he's not aware of the appointees that are some of his best friends being installed inside the FBI, people we're told he handpicked. But I don't think we're going to get an answer in any timely way.

We've had 17 inspector generals fired by the president in the last several days, right? And now... The Democrats of the Senate Judiciary Committee are asking the inspector general for the Department of Justice, one of the only ones that was not fired, to investigate this as quickly as possible. I don't see how this is going to happen quickly.

And I think it's going to be challenging for an inspector general to deliver on this question. Because remember, just yesterday, the inspector general for USAID, just to put this in context, was fired as soon as he delivered a report, fairly blistering report, explaining what the impact of Donald Trump's and Doge's cuts in that agency were.

You are one of the best read, most observant folks I know. You know what Speaker Johnson said the other day, which was basically like, I'm delighted about what Elon Musk is doing.

For all the reasons you mentioned and all the questions you've raised, you know, they're about as low as they can go. There was a goodbye party for a person I'm not going to mention. I was not an invitee, just to be clear, but I was reporting a little bit around the edges of this party of a person who'd been forced out.

And there was a funereal kind of quality as described by several of the guests, you know, like everyone was in the Biden political cadre that ran the Justice Department. Remember, there's only one political at the FBI, but there's quite a few at the Justice Department. That cadre is incredible.

was preparing for a pretty bracing landing of the 47th president and his administration and what that would mean for the Justice Department and the FBI that is a component. But even they are gobsmacked. And one of the reasons is what you cited, you know, like, you got to believe that at the FBI, truth and truthfulness in congressional testimony would be important.

Another thing that they felt was super important, and they talked about at the party was Kash Patel may be the only nominee for FBI director who felt compelled to to take the Fifth Amendment in testimony in a criminal investigation, the Mar-a-Lago documents case. Adam Schiff mentioned this rather prominently in the hearing, in the confirmation hearing.

Kash Patel was the, you know, sought to be immunized because he believed he might incriminate himself if he answered questions truthfully in the Mar-a-Lago case and got a federal judge to hear his plea that he could not testify that he had to take the Fifth Amendment and she ultimately agreed and found that he had a reasonable basis to think that he had criminal exposure.

He's walked a really interesting line and he's viewed as extremely heroic by agents across the building. He has a good reputation, right? He's got 24 years of experience, had just been named, I think, the head of the Newark office, a pretty tough office and an important one, especially in terrorism and narcotics. And

here he is threading this needle of not getting fired, but assuring his staff that he's not going to let them be illegally fired. And he's going to make, he didn't say these words, but between the lines and all of the memos he's been sending, staying in enormous contact with the staff, you know, large, all agency emails, he has said in a way, I support you. I value your service.

And I'm not going to let Emil Bove, the acting deputy attorney general, fire you unless he goes through his paces.

So there's a lot that's gotten a buzzsaw taken to it in the Department of Justice's arsenal to fight corruption at home and abroad. And abroad, the FCPA is really about like American businessmen and women and companies and lobbyists can't bribe governments abroad to get their fork in that country.

we want to avoid corruption of other countries and we want to avoid aiding and abetting it and encouraging it because it's bad for us. It's bad for those countries, but that, tool is basically taken off the table for the government. And it's super worrisome. There are other executive orders by Pampandi, particularly about FARA.