Brittany Luse

But interest in the latest iteration, manifestation, really spiked in 2020, according to Google Trends. And it's still riding that wave. And while manifestation is not always religious, it's often spiritual.

Yeah, like the focus on self-betterment through manifestation, it might be coming at the cost of a communal understanding of why some people might not already have the things that they want.

To your point, Rebecca, if you think that someone else being homeless is because they didn't want a place to live badly enough, you might be missing an understanding of what structural issues lead to homelessness or might not be motivated to ask why those issues still persist. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Rebecca, Tara, I really appreciate this conversation. I have learned so much. Thank you both so much.

Thanks again to author and journalist Tara Isabella Burton and New York Magazine features writer Rebecca Jennings. And wow, I am so grateful you made it this far. Yes, you listening right now. It must mean you really like the show, which is awesome because it turns out I really love making it for you. And I'm going to let you in on a little secret.

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This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Patak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.

That's author and journalist Tara Isabella Burton. I sat down with her and New York Magazine features writer, Rebecca Jennings. Thanks for having us. To talk about the appeal of manifestation, how it's actually built into the internet, and why it might make us less aware of our humanity. And you know what? You're going to love this conversation. I know, because I'm manifesting it.

Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. America is a deeply spiritual nation. Over 70% of us say that we feel spiritual in some way, but at the same time, we're also getting less religious.

Let's get right into it. What do people get out of manifestation as a spiritual practice?

I definitely see why that would be appealing to some people. So what does manifesting content look like online?

I've gotten those sometimes. I'm like, will he? He's sitting right next to me.

Okay. A lot of the examples that you've given, like use this sound, like on TikTok, repost this so your crush will text you back or whatever. Is that not just engagement farming? Like, is that not just asking people to interact with your posts so that they will become more popular and perhaps, you know, the original poster can make money?

Tara, I want to hear from you. How is manifestation almost intertwined with the internet?

It's approaching a 50-year low. Yeah.

Yeah, like you said, it's maybe not something that's working in the abstract. It's not like the manifestation that's doing it, but perhaps the attention that you've harnessed and the people that you've gotten to kind of like buy into your thing, whatever it is. You know,

When asked to check a box next to their religious affiliation, 28% of Americans check the box labeled none. The nuns, as they're sometimes called, are now the biggest religious group in the United States. And 22% identify as spiritual, but not religious, otherwise known as SBNRs. But for SBNRs, what's replacing organized religion? What do they believe?

Manifestation, I think that there is on some level for some people like a desire to want to believe in something, especially when you consider that more and more young people are growing up without religion. They still might be looking for the feeling that something out there wants the best for them. I also think, though, about something that you've said, Rebecca.

You've referred to manifestation as a type of internet spirituality and how those internet spiritualities might be better suited to some aspects of modern life.

Coming up, are manifestors looking to become God?

Stick around.

Going back to manifestation's roots, Tara, how do you see it growing out of New Thought? And can you explain what that is for those who don't know?

Perfect clockmaker name, yeah.

Right. And I also think this kind of thinking is around in some religious circles, but known better as prosperity gospel.

And where does that belief show up in all our lives? For our final episode of our series, Losing My Religion, we're going to find out. Today, we're getting into manifesting. In case you don't know, manifesting is the idea that if you want something badly enough, it'll come to you. You might know this idea by other names, like the law of attraction or the secret.

Rebecca, it's clear that the ideas behind manifesting are super popular and have been popular for a long time. And maybe it's even baked into our culture, but why the resurgence now?

I also wonder, where else are we seeing the ideas behind manifesting show up elsewhere in culture? Tara, you talked in your pre-interview about it being related to tech bro transhumanism.

Right. And doing all these intense regimens and medical treatments to try to do that. Yeah.

It seems like you're set up to fail. I just want to say from the outset, you're set up to fail in the eyes of the don't die.

Jeez. You know, I don't think that anyone would say it's necessarily a bad thing to use some of the tools of manifestation, like, you know, making goals, positive thinking, scripting, visualizations. But are there consequences? to such a widespread belief in manifestation. Rebecca, I'd love to hear from you on this first.