Bob Parsons
Appearances
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Hi there. Oh, real pleasure to be here, Oprah. Thank you. Good to see you. Hey, Bob. You know, Oprah, there's something I got to tell you before we get started. Tell me. Over the years, I've done a number of interviews. And every once in a while, I would get asked, they'd say, Bob, if you could share a beer with anybody, or have a beer with anybody, who would it be?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And my answer was always Oprah Winfrey.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
All right.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Well, you know, like so many of us, particularly you, I grew up tough. and uh you know i carried you know probably carried some ptsd from that when i was 17 i joined the marine corps and this was back in 1968 and i was um well i was in vietnam six months later carrying a rifle i was in combat for a month and i was i was wounded And the guy who went there was different from the guy who came home.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
The guy that went there was pretty happy-go-lucky, was easygoing, loved being out and about. The guy that came home was none of that. The guy that came home had a flash temper, suffered from depression, didn't like socializing too much.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Exactly. Well, they would call it shell shock. Yes, yes. So anyhow, you know, this went on. It cost me two marriages. Both my wives, which were a wonderful woman, you know, they tolerated me as much as they could. Then they gave me, you know, my walking papers. And eventually I was married to my third wife, Renee, and I read Michael's book when it first came out. What made you read it?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Well, the title, How to Change Your Mind. Oh, okay. I thought it would be very helpful because I knew I needed to do something different. And back then, the dialogue for PTSD had started. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Yeah. Well, you know, you know, a little bit of talk therapy, which I don't, I don't think works too well. And, um, you know, it's the only things that would ever help would be if I connected with the guys I served with in during the war.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And, um, you know, spend time with them, I would come away just feeling just wonderful. Yeah. But that would only last for a while. Yeah, because you'd be validated. What I did was, after I read Michael's book and I learned about psychedelics from that, you know, before that, I had never taken anything like that.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You know, I, like most people, thought that, you know, if you took psychedelics, you had to worry about jumping off a building. Right, right, right. You know, Michael dispels that pretty quickly in his book. And so reading the book was like reading a novel, Oprah. I mean, this thing just reads so quick and it just pulled me right through it. So I told my wife I'd like to try it.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
She had me hooked up with two guides within two weeks. And I met with them in Hawaii. And I did three different types of psychedelics over four or five days. And after I was done, my wife could not believe the change in me. She was the first to notice it. Man, now I was happier. I liked going out and about. My temper was far less. And I was a better guy.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
All right. All that. You know, the first day I took ayahuasca and a lot of tears, a lot of reliving and a lot of, you know, seeing it. And then I took the second day, I took psilocybin. And when I did sell Simon, the guy fixed the teapot, and he says, you know, this teapot holds three cups, and I made it strong, so you're only going to need one cup. Well, Oprah, I swear this is true.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I drank all three cups, and I ate the teabags. Well... So I was righteously stoned. I flashed back. I actually seen things that happened, and... Righteously stoned. The next day we took off, and my wife and I went and played golf. And when I was out on the golf course, it was like, to get back to your earlier conversation, it was like the trees knew I was there. The plants knew I was there.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And, you know, I could feel like a kinship there. When I caught it on the greens, you know, It was like the grass said, hit it here, Bobby. And I did.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And it's not finding love, it's knowing how to be loved. Oh. Because when you suffer from PTSD, man, you don't feel that way at all. Yeah. And so that was big.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I am hoping that we're going to see this gradually made legal. everywhere and becoming a normal treatment because when we do, I think it will be a renaissance in the country. I mean, we could have people in jail getting out better than they went in. if they're treated with psychedelics, because it'll get at the root causes, whatever all the ugly stuff that is causing them to be like they are.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Well, you know, I have went through the process another time with two guys that I served in Vietnam with, the squad leader and the machine gunner. And so I went through it again, which reinforced what I did the first time. And, you know, I'm happy to tell you that, you know, when I had my psychedelic experience, it had been 49 years since the war. And I like to say this, I finally came home.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And, you know, I'm going to tell you that when I went through it with the machine gunner and and the squad leader, they both came home. And I'm aware of a number of others who have went through it that I had nothing to do with. And, you know, the totally different people afterwards.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I cannot think of a better gift to give the United States or the world than to fund this stuff.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
All right. Maybe we'll have a shot and a beer, Oprah.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
It had been 49 years since the war. And I like to say this, I finally came home.