Barry Martin
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No, I can imagine everything. Under the bridge? It would be full of beer bottles, and that's after when I went down there and checked on her.
No, I can imagine everything. Under the bridge? It would be full of beer bottles, and that's after when I went down there and checked on her.
Yeah. That's where the shooting range is now.
Yeah. That's where the shooting range is now.
Yeah. Pretty sure it was Pike. Elementary.
Yeah. Pretty sure it was Pike. Elementary.
She has two personalities. Miss Sweetie and Miss Boy Don't Cross Her. I mean, when she said to me one day, and I told her, I said, April, there's one thing I'm going to tell you. I'll always be your father. But I pick people who I'm going to deal with. And as far as you go, you're out there. I'm here. You go your way. I go my way. Because I'm not going to deal with your stupid personality of hate.
She has two personalities. Miss Sweetie and Miss Boy Don't Cross Her. I mean, when she said to me one day, and I told her, I said, April, there's one thing I'm going to tell you. I'll always be your father. But I pick people who I'm going to deal with. And as far as you go, you're out there. I'm here. You go your way. I go my way. Because I'm not going to deal with your stupid personality of hate.
She used to fight with her mother, for God's sakes. I see her mother with black eyes, and I go, what the hell happened to you? Oh, April, I got in a fight.
She used to fight with her mother, for God's sakes. I see her mother with black eyes, and I go, what the hell happened to you? Oh, April, I got in a fight.
Her mother says, she said she don't control it very well, but of course her mother's past, you know.
Her mother says, she said she don't control it very well, but of course her mother's past, you know.
She wouldn't quit on anything. Well, it's good in a way, but I don't know. That, to me, I'll always say that's what Delbert saw was when Oaks did it, actually. I just feel that very strongly for that reason, because they were together, and he said he gave him a ride from the area, all this stuff. That only makes sense to me. I'm sorry, but that's me.
She wouldn't quit on anything. Well, it's good in a way, but I don't know. That, to me, I'll always say that's what Delbert saw was when Oaks did it, actually. I just feel that very strongly for that reason, because they were together, and he said he gave him a ride from the area, all this stuff. That only makes sense to me. I'm sorry, but that's me.
I was here 24-7, but still, that's the way it is. It's the way it is. That's the way... Any investigator would think that way anyway.
I was here 24-7, but still, that's the way it is. It's the way it is. That's the way... Any investigator would think that way anyway.
That's right. You've got to eliminate them. Because you've got to keep going until you find what you really... The common denominator or something that will link them.
That's right. You've got to eliminate them. Because you've got to keep going until you find what you really... The common denominator or something that will link them.
Nice to meet you. Thank you. Yeah. Come on, miss. Get in there, old girl. You're not supposed to be wandering around. Hi, Barry. And Lynn's in here. Okay. I can't remember your name. I'm not good at remembering. Oh, it's okay.
Nice to meet you. Thank you. Yeah. Come on, miss. Get in there, old girl. You're not supposed to be wandering around. Hi, Barry. And Lynn's in here. Okay. I can't remember your name. I'm not good at remembering. Oh, it's okay.
You're having a little problem calling parts names.
You're having a little problem calling parts names.
He passed away. Yeah, he was abroad on his first great vacation. Died of a heart attack. In France. He's a good friend. He and I did a lot of things together. Told a lot of stories, Boyle and Sav.
He passed away. Yeah, he was abroad on his first great vacation. Died of a heart attack. In France. He's a good friend. He and I did a lot of things together. Told a lot of stories, Boyle and Sav.
Yeah. I ain't had any since. You have your son. I just don't get involved with... Because every time I've had a good friend, it's like something happens to him, so...
Yeah. I ain't had any since. You have your son. I just don't get involved with... Because every time I've had a good friend, it's like something happens to him, so...
Well, that's a few, too. You're doing a hard job. Thanks. It's heartbreaking. It's got to be for you, too, to know all this. Not put it together. And think about protecting your own family, too.
Well, that's a few, too. You're doing a hard job. Thanks. It's heartbreaking. It's got to be for you, too, to know all this. Not put it together. And think about protecting your own family, too.
Jen. Okay. I should remember that. You've got a niece by that name.
Jen. Okay. I should remember that. You've got a niece by that name.
I remember Agnew and this one and that one, but not too much.
I remember Agnew and this one and that one, but not too much.
Right over in the rest area, and they found her up on the mountain. My goodness. Yeah, I worked for the state, so I remembered all that stuff.
Right over in the rest area, and they found her up on the mountain. My goodness. Yeah, I worked for the state, so I remembered all that stuff.
I was a road patrolman for highway.
I was a road patrolman for highway.
Because Erin always said that, you know, we kept to ourselves so much because of what happened to Heidi. And like I told him, I said, you don't understand how much it hurts, really. I said, she's been gone all these years and it still hurts. You know, the holidays come up, her birthday was just passed and stuff like this.
Because Erin always said that, you know, we kept to ourselves so much because of what happened to Heidi. And like I told him, I said, you don't understand how much it hurts, really. I said, she's been gone all these years and it still hurts. You know, the holidays come up, her birthday was just passed and stuff like this.
And it's hard to see that she's missed out on all that, like that picture behind you. They grow up too fast. You're going to ask certain questions and that'll help us maybe be able to answer better.
And it's hard to see that she's missed out on all that, like that picture behind you. They grow up too fast. You're going to ask certain questions and that'll help us maybe be able to answer better.
Oh, that day. All I remember was I was out on the side of the driveway working with Dr. Carl Perkins on, I think it was a tractor or rototill or something we were working on. And Heidi come out and says, I'm going jogging. And I said, well, you just be careful and go ahead. And off she goes. And Sandy and I, you know, kept doing our work.
Oh, that day. All I remember was I was out on the side of the driveway working with Dr. Carl Perkins on, I think it was a tractor or rototill or something we were working on. And Heidi come out and says, I'm going jogging. And I said, well, you just be careful and go ahead. And off she goes. And Sandy and I, you know, kept doing our work.
Pretty soon, I remember telling Lynn, I said, the weirdest thing happened that day was a young fella jogged by, curly hair. And I thought it was Heidi, and I yelled at him. And he hollered back, you know, he hollered back. And then when he did, his voice, I knew it wasn't Heidi, but I thought it was her. So I don't know what that was all about.
Pretty soon, I remember telling Lynn, I said, the weirdest thing happened that day was a young fella jogged by, curly hair. And I thought it was Heidi, and I yelled at him. And he hollered back, you know, he hollered back. And then when he did, his voice, I knew it wasn't Heidi, but I thought it was her. So I don't know what that was all about.
Running, like running down the road that way.
Running, like running down the road that way.
No, no, just... Okay. Just I remember he had curly hair.
No, no, just... Okay. Just I remember he had curly hair.
I don't either. But anyway...
I don't either. But anyway...
Equipment out in the yard, yep.
Equipment out in the yard, yep.
I don't know how long we were out there playing with that thing. I don't either. We were having an awful time with it. A doctor that's not a mechanic and an electrician that could care less about getting his hands greasy. Oh, God.
I don't know how long we were out there playing with that thing. I don't either. We were having an awful time with it. A doctor that's not a mechanic and an electrician that could care less about getting his hands greasy. Oh, God.
I know, it's hard to go back and remember everything.
I know, it's hard to go back and remember everything.
Yeah, they had quite a search party that next morning. My God.
Yeah, they had quite a search party that next morning. My God.
See, we didn't know that she went down around there, really, until Aaron mentioned to us that when he jogged with her, they jogged down there. They would go under the covered bridge and throw rocks in the water.
See, we didn't know that she went down around there, really, until Aaron mentioned to us that when he jogged with her, they jogged down there. They would go under the covered bridge and throw rocks in the water.
Yeah. She just went. She just went. I never even thought about it because I was busy concentrating with Sandy. So I just took it for granted. But Aaron couldn't go because he had a friend here. He always felt guilty because he didn't go. So I just, I told him, no, you can't. You can't feel that way.
Yeah. She just went. She just went. I never even thought about it because I was busy concentrating with Sandy. So I just took it for granted. But Aaron couldn't go because he had a friend here. He always felt guilty because he didn't go. So I just, I told him, no, you can't. You can't feel that way.
That's mine. But I didn't realize they were going down around that stupid covered bridge either.
That's mine. But I didn't realize they were going down around that stupid covered bridge either.
I know. I thought she would go up the street and then come back that way, you know? Nice straight run up that hill to get your exercise. I guess the speculation is that she did a loop. Yeah, evidently, yeah.
I know. I thought she would go up the street and then come back that way, you know? Nice straight run up that hill to get your exercise. I guess the speculation is that she did a loop. Yeah, evidently, yeah.
No, not until Erin told us. I remember driving around there, hollering and screaming around the school and this and that, never heard anything. You know, if those people were home behind the school in that trailer that lived there, Heidi would be here today.
No, not until Erin told us. I remember driving around there, hollering and screaming around the school and this and that, never heard anything. You know, if those people were home behind the school in that trailer that lived there, Heidi would be here today.
I don't know. I think it was just so much blotch, people screwed up.
I don't know. I think it was just so much blotch, people screwed up.
No, I can imagine everything. It would be full of beer bottles. And that's after when I went down there and checked on her.
No, I can imagine everything. It would be full of beer bottles. And that's after when I went down there and checked on her.
Which gravel pit? That's down over the tracks.
Which gravel pit? That's down over the tracks.
Yeah. Because that's where they used to... That's where the shooting range is now.
Yeah. Because that's where they used to... That's where the shooting range is now.
Yeah. Pretty sure it was Pike. I think another reason why Heidi was... so excited about going jogging was, remember, we were gonna go look for a car or something for her? How did that go? I can't remember it all, but something about we were gonna look for a car, and she was all excited about it.
Yeah. Pretty sure it was Pike. I think another reason why Heidi was... so excited about going jogging was, remember, we were gonna go look for a car or something for her? How did that go? I can't remember it all, but something about we were gonna look for a car, and she was all excited about it.
No, we hadn't gone yet. We were going to go the next day.
No, we hadn't gone yet. We were going to go the next day.
Not much with them. I just felt that... You know, you hear stories.
Not much with them. I just felt that... You know, you hear stories.
I don't know if we got it all back. Really? But I think of Leclerc there, whatever, if he investigated what the hell he was, I thought he was a real screw-up. Because he waited so long to write down stuff somebody told me about the whole case. What he saw, what happened. I said, what kind of a goddamn detective, if that's what you are, who would do such a dumb thing?
I don't know if we got it all back. Really? But I think of Leclerc there, whatever, if he investigated what the hell he was, I thought he was a real screw-up. Because he waited so long to write down stuff somebody told me about the whole case. What he saw, what happened. I said, what kind of a goddamn detective, if that's what you are, who would do such a dumb thing?
I don't know what was going on in his head.
I don't know what was going on in his head.
Yeah, I don't know. There's so much, like I said, confusion and... So much doubt, and you don't convict when there's all kinds of doubt.
Yeah, I don't know. There's so much, like I said, confusion and... So much doubt, and you don't convict when there's all kinds of doubt.
Just so much stuff. I wish I could remember 100% because I remember a lot of things that, you know, unfolded. I mean, I just went berserk looking for her. I mean, I went over every frigging back road in this town.
Just so much stuff. I wish I could remember 100% because I remember a lot of things that, you know, unfolded. I mean, I just went berserk looking for her. I mean, I went over every frigging back road in this town.
I got frigging lost. I had to go to the house.
I got frigging lost. I had to go to the house.
Because I went through all that stuff myself, trying to figure out what in the hell happened.
Because I went through all that stuff myself, trying to figure out what in the hell happened.
They had me on the stand. You were on the stand? They asked me a couple questions about Heidi.
They had me on the stand. You were on the stand? They asked me a couple questions about Heidi.
They asked me about how she felt about knives or something, if I remember. Why would she be scared of knives? She knew how to handle them. She knew, you know, you had your safe distance when you're using a knife, I said. Then I don't remember anything else. Well, I didn't. I was... I was very, too emotional upset to be even... Yeah, it's hard to talk about.
They asked me about how she felt about knives or something, if I remember. Why would she be scared of knives? She knew how to handle them. She knew, you know, you had your safe distance when you're using a knife, I said. Then I don't remember anything else. Well, I didn't. I was... I was very, too emotional upset to be even... Yeah, it's hard to talk about.
Because like I say, you say you're there to protect your children, and when you can't, that eats your heart the rest of your life. My biggest mistake was having the state police take me down and let her see when she was laying there. And I always wanted to be there to protect my children. And she's laying there, and I can remember with her hand up like this, the way she was laying there.
Because like I say, you say you're there to protect your children, and when you can't, that eats your heart the rest of your life. My biggest mistake was having the state police take me down and let her see when she was laying there. And I always wanted to be there to protect my children. And she's laying there, and I can remember with her hand up like this, the way she was laying there.
I looked at the officer. Look at that. She wanted her dad, and he couldn't even be there.
I looked at the officer. Look at that. She wanted her dad, and he couldn't even be there.
Yeah, well, I did when I saw her. It was like, well, who identified her, I think, was John's wife, because she's the one that found her there. I think so, right, Barbie?
Yeah, well, I did when I saw her. It was like, well, who identified her, I think, was John's wife, because she's the one that found her there. I think so, right, Barbie?
I think so, but I'm not 100% sure, but I think she did.
I think so, but I'm not 100% sure, but I think she did.
Ooh, where the hell is she? I don't remember, Lynn.
Ooh, where the hell is she? I don't remember, Lynn.
Oh, Megan did. Her daughter, yeah.
Oh, Megan did. Her daughter, yeah.
No. Be honest with you, I always thought that Albert and Paul Oakes were together. Be honest with you.
No. Be honest with you, I always thought that Albert and Paul Oakes were together. Be honest with you.
Because he did some shady stuff. And then he committed suicide, which I know. Because he was a sick individual, really.
Because he did some shady stuff. And then he committed suicide, which I know. Because he was a sick individual, really.
I've known that family most of my life. Yeah, but did you have any contact? No, no, no, no. I drive by every day with my state truck plowing. Do you still think it's Paul? I still do. And because before he committed suicide, what did he do?
I've known that family most of my life. Yeah, but did you have any contact? No, no, no, no. I drive by every day with my state truck plowing. Do you still think it's Paul? I still do. And because before he committed suicide, what did he do?
It would be his, it would be, I don't know if it was his daughter, but it was the woman he was married to's daughter, which sounds like he was pretty bad egg from what I, you know, know. Because I went to school with his twin sister, Pam.
It would be his, it would be, I don't know if it was his daughter, but it was the woman he was married to's daughter, which sounds like he was pretty bad egg from what I, you know, know. Because I went to school with his twin sister, Pam.
Yeah. Yeah, Pam. And she just passed away recently. But we went to school together, and she was a nice person. And they had that junkyard he had for years. Right. Then you hear stories they found bones in cars. No way.
Yeah. Yeah, Pam. And she just passed away recently. But we went to school together, and she was a nice person. And they had that junkyard he had for years. Right. Then you hear stories they found bones in cars. No way.
Is that true? I don't know. I heard there were stories people would say. You see on TV parents that lose their children in these shooting at schools.
Is that true? I don't know. I heard there were stories people would say. You see on TV parents that lose their children in these shooting at schools.
You could be right there to help those people. Let her ask questions. Okay, go ahead.
You could be right there to help those people. Let her ask questions. Okay, go ahead.
I know that. I'm going to be honest with you. I've watched Perry Mason growing up all my life. And the first suspect is always the father or the mother, one or the other. And I expected that anyway. When April told me, I said, I'm not surprised. Because a lot of times, if it ain't the father, it's an uncle.
I know that. I'm going to be honest with you. I've watched Perry Mason growing up all my life. And the first suspect is always the father or the mother, one or the other. And I expected that anyway. When April told me, I said, I'm not surprised. Because a lot of times, if it ain't the father, it's an uncle.