Bari Weiss
Appearances
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Hi, Honestly listeners, it's Barry here with a big end of year ask. By the end of 2024, in a few short weeks, we want to get to 1 million free press subscribers. That's right, a million people, 1 million. That's right, 1 million people who value journalistic independence and curiosity, and above all, who want a news source that reflects reality.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Okay. Why decide to go into politics?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Well, he was campaigning on your behalf, right?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
So your first race is in 2015 to the London Assembly, which is like a... Yes, that's the first time I won something. It's a civil council. Okay. And then in 2017, you're elected to parliament. Tell us about the Tory party that you are elected to in 2017. Like Brexit had happened the year before that. What are the views and mores of the party at that time?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
I'll also note that she's 44, has three children, grew up in Nigeria, actually worked at McDonald's, unlike a lot of American politicians who have claimed to, didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge, and has a master's degree in computer engineering. Not exactly your typical Tory party leader profile.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Let's talk about the recent election of Keir Starmer and Labour. I think there's sort of three ways to understand that election. The first is that the voters actively want Labour and its vision. The second is that they just hate the Tories, having experienced two decades of, you could argue, failed leadership. We'll talk about whether or not that's true.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And the third is a more nuanced picture where Reform, this party led by Nigel Farage that's to the Tories' right, sort of split the conservative vote and, you know, swept Labour into power. Which is it?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
But Kemi Badenoch is the one who just inherited a conservative party that has basically dominated British politics since the 20th century, until Labour Party leader Keir Starmer became prime minister earlier this year.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
So if Nigel Farage and reform hadn't been in the picture, you think Labour still would have won?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
When you talk about managerialism, you know, this sort of like tweaking and, you know, focusing on tiny details rather than talking about like the big issues that actually impact people's lives, that inspire people, that shape culture in the world. Is Keir Starmer the image you have in your mind? Like, is he the ultimate image of the sort of managerial leader?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
The Britain that Starmer inherited, the Britain that conservatives like David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, and Rishi Sunak left behind, is a country with enormous debt, a shrinking GDP, a huge immigration challenge, and arguably a national identity crisis. Or as Free Press columnist and British historian Neil Ferguson has bleakly put it, it seems that the UK has a national suicide wish.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
The two issues that Brits care the most about are the two that I think drove this election here in the U.S., which we'll get to. And of course, that's the economy and immigration. I want to ask you about both, starting with the economy. This is the state of Britain's economy today. Wage growth has been flat for 16 years. The GDP is shrinking. National debt is almost 100 percent of GDP.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And productivity growth from 2019 to 2023 was 1.5 percent. And just as a point of comparison, it was 7.6 percent in the U.S. It's not the liberals that are responsible for this state of affairs. It's the conservatives. How did that happen?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
You think of conservative parties, not just in the UK, but just more generally, as the party of growth, of free markets, of, you know, all the things that we know. How'd that happen?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
My point is like the socialists aren't responsible.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Where did the conservative party go so wrong? And can the woman I'm sitting across from today turn her party and ultimately the country around? How will she offer something different than the past five Tory leaders who served before her? And can she beat out not just the labor left, but also the growing threat from a very energized hard right? Those questions and much more after the break.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Let's talk about just immigration a little bit more deeply and just put some numbers to this because it's pretty unbelievable. Net migration to the UK hit a record high of nearly a million last year. 11 million migrants have come into the UK since 2012. The population is only 68 million people. That is 16% of the population in the last 12 years.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Big picture, and then we'll get into some of the details. How has this changed the fabric of British society?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
In other words, they come in, they get on the National Health Service and... But also...
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And doing it under the guise of civil rights language.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Just to stick on immigration for a minute, I was really struck by this number. 54% of people crossing the English Channel by boat are from five countries. Afghanistan, Iran, Eritrea, Syria, and Sudan. You have said many times numbers matter. In other words, labor markets matter, economics matter, what we were just talking about. But culture matters more. That's right.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
We'll be right back with new Tory leader, Kemi Badenoch. Hey, Honestly listeners, I want to let you know about an amazing podcast called Unpacking Israeli History. If you read the headlines about what's going on in Israel, you're only getting a very tiny slice of a very long story. Shorn of depth and historical context, so much coverage of Israel can't even get the most basic facts straight.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Put meat on the bones of that. What do you mean by that?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
From our vantage point here... And obviously, the U.S. is not immune to this, but it seems 10x or maybe even more bad in a place like London. We're watching as every single Saturday, massive numbers of people, some of whom are perhaps...
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Recent migrants, some who are second generation, are marching through the middle of London, one of the most important capitals in the Western world, cheering on behalf of terror groups.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And Nigel Farage, who we've mentioned, the leader of reform, the leader of this sort of right-wing party, he says he wants to close the border, freeze all non-essential immigration, stop channel crossings with the program to detain and deport illegal migrants, and return small boats to France. proposed solutions different from those of Farage?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
If you're here, it's not just because you believe in fearless old-school journalism for yourself. It's because you believe in it for other people, too. You believe it's for the good of the country. Free pressers tell us again and again that we're not just a media company. We're a public trust.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
One of the things we try and do here on Honestly and at the Free Press more generally is to go deeper into the most important topics of the day as we try and get to the truth. And that's the mission of Unpacking Israeli History, hosted by Dr. Noam Weissman. It offers listeners a journey through the events in Israel's past and its present.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
But is the other X factor here fear? I mean, ahead of this interview, I was texting with some friends, writers in the UK, and they said, you have to talk about Islam. And I said, well, doesn't everyone ask Kemi about Islam? And they say, well, we're scared to actively and openly talk about it. It's we're willing to say some cultures are better than others, more tolerant than others.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And the unspoken thing there is that people who are coming to the UK from countries where anti-Semitism is the norm or anti-Westernism is the norm, where mob rule to some extent is the norm, happen to be coming from places where, you know, Islam, or if you want, radical Islam, is normative. And they're bringing those values that are antithetical to British ones or Western ones along with them.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And, you know, someone texted me sort of a glib text, and he said, why do you think Douglas Murray doesn't live in England anymore. Why do you think X, Y, and Z don't live in England anymore? They don't want to go the way of Mike Freer.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
In other words, referencing the gay MP who had been wearing a stab vest, who I think was a victim of arson, whose life was threatened because he dared to stand up for Israel. So how much of that is really the elephant in the room?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
In a world where history is getting rewritten, the goal of Unpacking Israeli History is to provide listeners with a nuanced, fact-based understanding of the state of Israel that's both informative and entertaining. The show delves deeply into the nuances and complexities of Israeli history and how it relates to the present, examining tough questions like, is Zionism a colonialist project?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
I want to ask you just a few more questions about anti-Semitism. There have been almost 6,000 anti-Semitic incidents recorded in the UK since October 7th, a 200% increase. Some people have called London, or at least parts of London, a no-go zone for Jews. Just last week, I'm sure you read about this, there were two buses of students with 11- and 12-year-old kids from a Jewish school.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Is Israel an apartheid state? And are the settlements an obstacle to peace? You won't want to miss it. Learn the history behind the headlines and find Unpacking Israeli History wherever you get your podcasts. Think about a product that's selling through the roof. These businesses often have a good product, outstanding marketing, and a great brand.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Teenagers threw rocks. They came onto the bus. They were yelling, fuck Israel, and they were 11- and 12-year-old kids.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
On here, they film themselves doing it. I mean, like, how is this going to be turned around?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Well, just for the listener, let's give an example of two-tiered policing, right? So what we're seeing from here is these protests in which people are actively calling for jihad. By the way, we don't even need to go to the streets. We can go to what happened at Oxford in You know, at the Oxford Union in late November, where they had this kind of a real brouhaha.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
They had a proposition that was, this house believes Israel's an apartheid state responsible for genocide. The pro-Israel speakers were shut down. People were saying absolutely insane things. Nothing happens.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And yet you have this Telegraph columnist or writer, Alison Pearson, who tweets something a year ago, an off-color tweet, deletes it, and then gets a visit to her house by the police on a Sunday morning for inciting racial hatred. And this kind of thing makes people think, wait, are there two different rules depending on who the speaker is? Explain that for us who are watching from over here.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
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Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
After the break, we talk about why Kemi Badenoch dies on the hill of the culture war. We talk about DEI, CRT, trans issues, euthanasia, and much more. Stay with us. Thank you so much for having me. ditch the busy work and the endless scrolling, and use Indeed for scheduling, screening, and messaging so that you can connect with candidates faster. And Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
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Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
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Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
It's a brand new limited series podcast, and let me tell you, it's what we need right now. The world can feel pretty dark these days, but my good friend Elon Gold and his co-host Eli Leonard, who's also a friend of mine, bring a fresh, humorous perspective, showing us that it's possible to laugh even when we're talking about the serious stuff.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
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Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
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Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
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Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
So subscribe now to Stars of David with Elon Gold wherever you listen to your podcasts or head to Unpacked Podcasts on YouTube. Let's talk about some of the social issues that have exploded here in the U.S. and also, of course, in the U.K. You have been very outspoken against DEI, which is diversity, equity, and inclusion, but of course means actually something very different, as well as CRT.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
It's an alphabet soup, critical race theory. And people have called you a race traitor for opposing these things. They say, why are you focusing on being a culture warrior? You should focus on economics, taxes, immigration, kitchen table issues. Why is this so important to you? Why is this a hill worth dying on?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
She is the legal theorist who created critical race.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Were you guys like on the panel together?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Kemi Badenoch, welcome to Honestly.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
I'm so happy to have you here. Well, I want to start out at the beginning of your life for those who have not yet encountered you as I have. So you were born in the UK, but then your family moved back to Lagos, Nigeria when you were very young and you were raised there for the first 16 years of your life. Now, in those years, Nigeria had a series of military coups. Inflation reached 40 percent.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
It also seems like a way of sort of stealthily bringing back almost like tribal warfare.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
DEI and CRT, those are not the only culture war topics that you've weighed in on. You're a passionate feminist. You've called yourself a gender-critical feminist.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And the issue, obviously, of feminism and the conflict, I guess, between traditional feminism and women's rights and trans rights has been at the center of politics here in America and in the UK. What is at stake, in your view, on this topic? Why is it so important to you? Well, because I think...
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Life expectancy was around 46 years old. And by the end of the decade, 43 percent of Nigerians lived below the poverty line. Tell us about your childhood growing up in Nigeria and how this political and economic context shaped your character and shaped your politics.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
One last culture war question. It's bigger than the culture war. I think it has to do with something much deeper, which is about meaning of our lives. The rise of medically assisted suicide is a huge issue in Canada, and it's become a very big issue in the UK. What do you think about it? Why is that an issue that's coming up right now?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
So if for some crazy reason you listen to Honestly and you still don't support the free press, here's your moment. Take out your computer or your phone and go to the Free Press' website. Go to thefp.com slash subscribe and become a Free Presser. You don't even need to take out your credit card.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Does it speak to something more deep and why do you oppose it?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Unlike obviously here in the States, the UK doesn't have a First Amendment. There's no guarantee to free speech enshrined in the Constitution. Is there a way to fix that if you're prime minister? Is there a way to pass some kind of free speech law?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
You're here in America, I think, six weeks after a huge, huge election that many people, I think, feel marks. You know, some people have called it the end of the woke revolution, the beginning of the counterculture revolution. Neil Ferguson has called it just the vibe shift. What's your sense? You know, you're coming off the train having had dinner last night, I think, last night with J.D. Vance.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Yes, yes. Tell us about what you're hearing and seeing and what this trip's been like for you. Sure.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Claim your Gen X status because as an elder millennial, it's like the most shameful generation to be a part of.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
But they're not in oil. Your dad isn't.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
There has been – and we're living through – like I don't think we know exactly what new conservatism or certainly the Republican Party looks like. When I hear you talk about free markets, about free speech, I hear a message that's pretty old school.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Pretty like conservative, classical liberal, the kind of things that I grew up thinking a conservative would sound like. The shift, I would say, is marked, at least in this country, in two big places. One is an embrace of protectionism economically and certainly Trump's embrace of tariffs. He says it's the most beautiful word in the English language. Yeah.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And then also of isolationism, of a turn against a kind of muscular foreign policy that I think the U.S. certainly, you know, certainly the Republican Party, for my entire adult life, I'm 40, had been known for. Where do you fall on those two issues? And do you see a distinction between yourself and sort of where the right is going here in America?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
So it's like, we'll trade with China and democracy will come to China.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Tory Prime Minister Harold Macmillan said that Britain was Greece to America's Rome, the wise old empire helping to guide the brash young superpower. What do you see as Britain's primary role in the world today, and especially vis-a-vis the US?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
One of the things that's been really interesting for people to watch over the past six weeks in this country is the way that people who we do not think of as being D.C. swamp creatures, as being government bureaucrats, people like Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk are sort of heading into Washington. They're doing this, you know, government efficiency thing. They're calling it Doge.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
People are really excited to see what that might bring. What do you think of that? Is there a thought that you maybe could do something similar in the U.K.? And have you met Elon Musk?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
One last question and then we'll do a quick lightning round. We've talked about a lot of crises that the West is facing and maybe the one that's sort of like underlying all of it is the crisis of meaning, right? This sense that, you know, what is life about?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
The reason it comes to mind is because if your life is about compliance and bureaucracy and you're so far away from making something that's actually productive and actually matters, it's very hard to have a meaningful life.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
How do you think about that problem? How do you think about the crisis of meaning that seems to be crippling the West? We have this strange paradox where, in a certain sense, we have every luxury that's imaginable. We live lives that our ancestors, even our grandparents, could never have imagined. We have so many true luxuries and privileges in the real sense of the word.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
And yet people seem to be in a kind of malaise.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Kemi, you ready for a lightning round?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
If we looked at your Spotify wrapped, what would we see?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
What's the last show that you binged or do you not have time for TV?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
What's your New Year's resolution, if you have one?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Do you think the world is better when people either believe in God or act as if God is real?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Do you think the U.S. still has what it takes to lead the free world? Yes, of course. What is your order at McDonald's if you eat at McDonald's?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
You get compared to Margaret Thatcher a lot. Do you like the comparison?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Kemi Badenoch, thank you so much for coming on Honestly. Thank you for having me, Barry. Thanks for listening. If you liked this conversation, if it provoked you, if you were really interested in what Kemi had to say and want to share it, please do share this episode with your friends and family and use it to have an honest conversation of your own.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Last but not least, we are in a very, very crucial time. Why is that? It's because we are so close to getting to that magic number, a million free press subscribers. You can become a free subscriber today. Don't even pull out your credit card.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Just go to the Free Press' website at thefp.com slash subscribe and sign up to join our community of people that believe in fearless, independent-minded journalism. Thanks for listening.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Margaret Thatcher is running the UK at that time. What did your family think of her? And what were the politics like of your family growing up?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Sign up for free and get our daily emails that gives you our view of the world and a view into the world of the Free Press in your inbox every morning. If you're already signed up, why not give a gift subscription to your friends and family members or anyone you think can use a good dose of reality? Okay, one more time.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
So 1996, you're 16 years old. You move back to London alone. You said your dad gave you basically his last hundred dollars.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Did she do fries? That was the kind of infamous thing she said is, I did the fries, which sounded very suspicious to everybody.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Support us by going to the Free Press' website at dfp.com slash subscribe or click the link in our show notes and help us get to our goal of minting 1 million Free Pressers by December 31st, 2024. Thanks so much. From the Free Press, this is Honestly, and I'm Barry Weiss.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
You joined the Conservative Party when you're 25 years old. Most people when they're 25 years old do not become conservative. And certainly most black women do not become conservative. Why join the Conservative Party? What made you a conservative?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
Were there certain books or texts or essays that you were reading at the time? Yes, definitely. What were you reading that was formative in those years?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
I was going to say that, not a beetroot.
Honestly with Bari Weiss
Is Kemi Badenoch the Next Margaret Thatcher?
The woman I'm sitting across from right now just became the first Black woman to lead the oldest political party in the UK, the Conservatives, otherwise known as the Tories, which have been around since 1834, almost 200 years. She'll probably resent me for noting that fact, given her fierce opposition to identity politics. But I can't help but point out the historic first.