Bailey Sarian
Appearances
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
the other day i was in the mood to watch an old movie so i turned on casablanca and if you watch old movies there's something that you notice that maybe you forgot about there's always so much smoking, right? And the movies in like, well, Casablanca was in all black and white. So it just, it looks so, everyone just looks so cool and so sophisticated. And they're just like, what did you say?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
So he's smoking a lot. At the time, smoking was, again, totally normal. And then one day, this all changed. Han's father, also heavy smoker. He got diagnosed with lung cancer and sadly passed away from it. For Han, this was like a really big wake up call. And he finally decided that he wanted to stop. So he turned to nicotine patches, you know, for help.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And they were definitely helping, but you know, there's that oral fixation. that you lose, you don't get that with a patch, okay? He still had that desire to smoke. It was better than nothing, but it's hard. One night, Han forgot to take off his nicotine patch before bed, and I guess he had some insane nightmares all night. He said that he woke up a different man.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
He realized why the patches just weren't cutting it anymore. With patches, you get a small continuous dose of nicotine. With smoke, you get a sharp and quick high of nicotine, which for him, relaxed him. So Han decided to create a solution. He thought he could use his knowledge of Chinese medicine to help. He wanted to create a device that would mimic smoking without, again, the deadly smoke.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
In 2003, he invented his own version of an e-cigarette. He called it the Rouillon, which translates to like smoke. In his device, liquid was being turned into vapor through something called an ultrasonic atomizer. Sounds so fancy, I know. But I guess it's similar technology to ultrasonic cleaners people use to clean their jewelry in TikTok videos. I got one of those. Oh, they work so well.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
I don't know how they work, but they work. Okay, it's weird.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
but essentially vibrations are used to like shake the liquid so hard and fast that it turns into like super tiny droplets aka vapor and this created a much smoother and better drag when it was inhaled maybe you've seen these devices they look like cigarettes and when you inhale them there's a little light on the end and it looks kind of like a lit cigarette initially the products were only sold in china as a way to help people quit smoking cigarettes
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
but by the mid-2000s, they made their way to the US. In the patent Han and his company filed, they said the device functioned as, quote, substitutes for quitting smoking and cigarette substitutes, end quote. Han's device sold really well in the US, so well that in 2013, Imperial Tobacco Group bought the product for $75 million. Good for him, huh? As for Han,
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
He went back to smoking cigarettes, so, you know. He still vapes, I guess, so now he's just addicted to two things, but hey, you go, Han. You tried, and that's all that matters. Since Han's invention arrived in the US, a ton of other companies decided to get in on the e-cig business. Since 2007, e-cig sales in the US have been rising more and more.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Before we get into it, don't forget to like and subscribe, because I'm always here for you, posting new content. And let me know what you think in the comment section, because I read them at the end. Did you know that? Okay, well now let's get into it. Before we get started, let's all get on the same page about what I mean when I say the word vape.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
According to a report from GAO, to this day, 90% of the e-cigs that we have in the U.S. are imported from China. There's one vape pen that was started right here in the U.S. of A. And many people believe this vape pen redefined the vape business forever. You know her. You heard of her. You love her. She's kind of gone now. Jewel.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Paul, just because you look like you work at a bank doesn't mean you know how to manage money. Managing your money can be difficult. Thanks to Rocket Money, my financial wellness goals are now within reach. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
You can see all of your subscriptions in one place so you know exactly what you're paying for and know exactly where your money is going. And if you want to cancel like a subscription or something, well, guess what? Rocket Money can help you do that. It's so easy. If you're looking to kickstart the new year with like a new budget, maybe just cleanse all of the all of the stuff you're paying for.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
I'm I'm at the I am this close. If you can see me, I'm very, very close here. I'm about to cancel all of the subscriptions, every single one of them. That's where I'm at right now. I'm ready to start over. Well, if you're like me, you can easily create a personalized budget to help keep your spending on track, which is nice.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They have this new feature called Goals, which automatically saves money for you, so you don't even have to think about it. It's like, hey, what's your goal? And you're like this, and it'll be like, okay. With the Rocket Money app, you can input your bills so you can get an alert if there's an increase in price, if there is unusual spending, or if you're close to going over budget.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with go to rocketmoney.com slash darkhistory today. That's rocketmoney.com slash darkhistory, rocketmoney.com slash darkhistory.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
There are a ton of different names, brands, and products that are associated with vaping. E-cigarettes, vaporizers, e-pipes, hookah pens, jewels. Are jewels still around? Vape, whatever. But essentially, they all do the same thing. They're all battery-powered devices that heat up a liquid, then turn it into vapor. And then you inhale, and it tastes good, because they have a lot of good flavors.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
In 2004, James Monsees and Adam Bowen were students at Stanford University. I guess, you know, smokers, they were smokers. And while they were on a smoke break together, they were talking about how they were so sick of being addicted to cigarettes. You have to buy the packs, the lighter. You got to find a place to smoke. Find time to smoke. Plus then you stink all day. You smell like a smoker.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Your fingers start to turn kind of like this yellowish color. It sucks. So they decided to create something that would help them quit smoking. So they put their heads together to design their very own take on a vape pen. By this point, dozens of vape pens had crashed and burned in the industry. So they're like, okay, we have to stand out, you know?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
First of all, they were setting themselves apart from Han's device. They didn't want this to look like a cigarette. They wanted it to be in a category all on its own. It was going to look futuristic and chic, and it wasn't going to be disposable, okay? This was something they wanted people to take pride in owning. A vape pen to leave to your grandchildren.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
a vape pen to pass on for generations to come. Now, in order to create a good product, you had to obviously look at the research. What did people like about e-cigarettes? What did they not like? What did they keep buying? Why did they keep buying them? Instead of digging into the typical research, the guys decided to get creative.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They discovered that a nearby college had access to public records of internal documents within the tobacco industry. Hello, score. When all these scientific studies came out about how cigarettes and cancer were connected, it also came out that tobacco companies had been lying to the public about how deadly it was.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Big tobacco companies were sued and they were forced to turn over the data that they had been hiding from the public. including data on who bought cigarettes and why. This information was gold to James and Adam. Suddenly they had decades worth of research. Now they didn't have to do all of their own research because Big Tobacco had like done a lot of it for them.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They got to sit back, relax, and almost in a way cheat their way through research. I don't like saying cheat their way because really it was all available to them. They just use their resources. You know, they're like, thank you. This helps us tremendously. And from there, they figured out how to market to each and every demographic. Smart, I'll give them that.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They were so stoked about this product that they decided to make it their senior thesis. They invented a portable vape pen called the Plume. It sounds like something for like douching, right? Kind of sounds like something like douche, you would douche with, like plume, keeps you fresh. but that's what they went with, okay. But with this device, it was portable and it didn't look like a cigarette.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
It was almost like a shiny black car key, you know, just a little bit bigger. The plume heated up pods of flavored nicotine, which created a nicotine vapor that could be inhaled. James and Adam's professors warned them that they were moving way too quickly with their idea and not doing enough research. But you know how it is. They're like, nah, we're going to do it anyway.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
After they graduated, they moved to Silicon Valley and began a startup based around Plume. But right away, it wasn't going so well. The plume needed butane fuel in order to work, so users had to carry a little can of fuel with them in order to refill. Talk about an inconvenience. Also, apparently the plume would sometimes electrically shock users when they used it. So it was a good idea.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They just needed to work out the kinks. So they ended up getting a $10 million investment and redesigned the plume into... The Pax pen. Okay, this I remember. I remember Pax pens. Now, these were, this was the beginning, right? So things are like ridiculously priced. The Pax pen was $250. So who's gonna buy that, okay? And yeah, Bob down the street can like not buy cigarettes for a week.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Over the last 10 years, it seems like these vape pens have just really come out of nowhere. It's like, suddenly your Aunt Barbara is sucking on a banana ice-flavored puff bar. And you're like, let me hit that. Is it good? But the truth is, vape pens have been around in some form for almost 100 years. I know. I was like, I know nothing, you know? And it all started with a man named Joseph Robinson.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And I'm sure he would have the $250 to do that. But Bob's not gonna do that because he needs his fix now, you know? So it wasn't really exactly for everyone. James and Adam, they knew the only way that they would attract the younger everyday person was to design something with a reasonable price tag and also give them that good hit of nicotine. So they got the design down.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They came up with a four inch long device that honestly looked like a USB drive. It had these flashing lights that would activate as soon as you sucked on it and inhaled. They called this creation The Jewel. They called it jewel because of a jewel, like jewelry. Yeah, nothing deeper than that really. I thought it was like a cute name. No, just like jewelry.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
With the Juul, it's supposed to be, quote, discreet and aesthetically pleasing, making the user feel like they have a little piece of modern luxury. And they spelled it out that way just to stand out. The Juul was invented in 2015. They kicked off marketing for Juul right away to try and make vaping appealing and easier and an option.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They went right after companies like Vice Magazine, which mostly targeted young people. They took out a Times Square billboard. They sent free samples of Juul to people like Leonardo DiCaprio and Bella Hadid. And they did whatever they thought they should do to make the product cool and in the public eye, you know? And it worked. By the end of 2017, Juul was the number one vape pen in America.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And by 2018, the company was valued at $15 billion. Insanity. Literally three years after it hit the market. That is insane. I loved my Juul though. I had a Juul. I loved it. There was like a mango. I would just like suck on it all day. It was so easy to use. It was like small. I don't know. I liked them. I liked it a lot.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Even though Juul was a preferred vape pen in America, they were starting to get called out for their questionable marketing. Life in general can be chaotic, but if you're in charge of order fulfillment for an e-commerce business, good luck, because that's a different kind of chaos. But with ShipStation, you can count on your day-to-day remaining calm. Don't freak out.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
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Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
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Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
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Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
That's ShipStation.com, code DarkHistory. Some experts believe that the company was actually trying to target children. I mean, they were sending free jewels to celebrities, so they'd be caught vaping in paparazzi photos. And we all know how young people are influenced by celebrities. I mean, look at me. I started smoking because of Mary Kay Olsen.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And I'm sorry, I don't want to put that pressure on her because at the end of the day, we all make our own choices. But I wanted to be like Mary Kay so bad. So I was like, parliament lights, me too, girl. American spirits. So if you're seeing celebrities vaping these Juul pens, same thing. But Juul would remind website visitors that you had to be a legal adult in order to purchase their products.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
You see, in 1927, Joseph invented something called the Mechanical Butane Ignition Vaporizer. Rolls right off the tongue. But he didn't invent this device for smoking. Instead, he wanted to make something that could help people inhale their medicine. Almost like an inhaler for asthma, but... You know, not for asthma. He designed the device and even got a patent for it in 1930.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Even if you were underage and couldn't legally buy a vape, you'd still be able to get Juul marketing emails. And even if you failed the age verification page on their website, you'd still get spammed with advertising. They'd be following you.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Juul was even accused of advertising near schools, selling their products out in the open in stores, not behind the counter, and funneling free vapes to the new wave of celebrities, influencers. Where was mine? I didn't get one. Hello? So rude. I'm very upset about this. You know, but at the end of the day, this quote unquote bad press wasn't bad for Juul.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
We all know that if you tell people and teenagers that they can't have something, they're gonna wanna do it even more, especially if you try to ban it. I mean, there was this whole controversy over vape flavors being created just for kids. So there's flavors like cotton candy, bubble gum, mango, you name it, okay? I loved mango.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
People who were anti-vapors believed that these flavors were created specifically for children. Do you guys remember when they banned those mint Juul pods? Now, the reason was that they believed, they being whoever's in charge around here, that certain Juul flavors would stop young people from smoking. In my personal opinion, banning mint isn't gonna stop young people.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Cause like we're going, young people want like bubble gum. They want fucking mango. They want fucking like cake. You know, mint. Mint gave me a stomach ache. I didn't really care. I was like, go ahead, ban mint. But it doesn't take a genius to know that there's more than one company making a flavor that you like. It just seems like this was all...
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
There was a study done in 2021 by Dr. Abigail S. Friedman, which showed that teenagers in San Francisco specifically, they actually started smoking cigarettes more after they started banning vape flavors. So people are addicted and they're gonna get their fix where they're gonna get their fix. You know what I'm saying?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
But then in 2019, the North Carolina Attorney General sued Juul for designing, marketing, and selling its e-cigarettes to young people. And surprisingly, they won. Juul was forced to pay $40 million into programs that would help prevent addiction to e-cigarettes. They also had to agree to stop advertising near schools.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Plus Juul was given the strict order to stop quote unquote, misrepresenting the danger of nicotine and its products. In 2022, the FDA banned the sale of Juuls in the United States. Then in 2024, they partially reversed the decision, letting them sell Juuls while they were under review by the FDA. So it was like, make up your freaking mind.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And look, to be clear, it's not just Juul that they were doing all of this to, they were just the ones who were being made an example of. Dozens of vape companies took advantage of young people wanting to try vaping by advertising on social media. There were ads on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter. X, whatever, Pinterest, I don't know, vape everywhere. Everywhere you go, vape.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And the kids and teens who didn't have social media, Jewel bought ads on Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, and teen magazines, which is so weird, right? And it worked because it's still smoking. I don't know. From 2014 to 2016, a poll was done that showed 78% of American middle school and high school students confirmed that they had seen at least one ad for vaping. And surprisingly,
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
But Joseph like never actually followed through and made the product. No one knows why. But his invention was not a waste because for years, people wanted to make an inhaling device similar to his. And that's where a man named Herbert A. Gilbert comes in. Herbert Gilbert. That's a cute, cute name. He sounds like a hippo. Herbert Gilbert.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
63% of adolescents don't know that Juul specifically contained nicotine. And to be honest, we don't really think of nicotine as being that serious. It's kind of like caffeine, you know? Because of how new it is, this is my assumption, That's the reason why we you never really hear about like long term health risks for adults when it comes to vaping. Yeah.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
I mean, it's always about the kids, which I get. But I'm wondering if you're an adult, you know, is vaping really that bad for you? You know, I don't know. Well, the answer always goes back to two things, nicotine and additives. And vape pens are always compared to cigarettes. So I wanted to do a quick comparison.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
According to the American Lung Association, there are around 600 ingredients in one cigarette. And when burned, the cigarettes create more than 7,000 chemicals. At least 69 of those chemicals are known to cause cancer. Okay, so we can all agree, not great. Now, it's a little more complicated to study vape pens since one, there are so many companies,
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And the FDA rules for vape pen manufacturers are hazy, confusing, and a little blurred. There was a study done in 2021 by a team of researchers at Johns Hopkins that found over 2000 chemicals in popular vape brands. Most of those chemicals hadn't been reported by the manufacturer. Some people would have no idea that they were I thought it was just water and vapor. I don't even know.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
I just thought nicotine and smoke. I don't know. No one knows. In 2014, there was a study published in a scientific journal called European Addiction Research, which showed that using e-cigarettes is around 95% less harmful than regular cigarettes. I'll make sure to link these studies down below if you're more curious.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
But to be fair, I'm just saying this in my own opinion, that study was done in 2014. Vapes have progressed a lot and there are so many out there. I mean, who knows? What are in these vapes? The only thing that we really have solid evidence on is the nicotine. I learned that nicotine is not great. I know you're probably thinking I'm dumb, but I didn't realize that nicotine actually can lead to
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
cognitive deficits meaning uh this is good like it affects your ability to learn and it affects your memory oh yeah now this is especially true if you're a young person whose brain is still developing which probably makes sense because my memory is so bad and i've been vaping on and off for so long i've been vaping for so long is that why my memory sucks I don't know.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
You know what they say, everything in moderation. Right? Most vape pens contain the same amount of nicotine as 20 cigarettes or one standard pack of cigarettes. Oh shit. So we're just getting hit with that. Our brain is probably like, what the fuck is going on, bro? So if you limit yourself to just a few puffs, it's still better than blowing through a bunch of cigarettes, I guess.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Well, in the 1960s, Herbert was living like, you know, beautiful, peaceful life in Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania. Beaver Falls. It already sounds like there's white picket fence houses, green grass. It just sounds nice. Beaver Falls. Okay. Well, he was raising a family while working at his small business, a place called Gilbert Iron and Steel. And they were essentially scrap metal dealers.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
The problem is it's so easy to quickly grab a hit of a vape. Many people are inhaling as much as 200 times a day. And that's when things can, you know, take a deadly turn. This episode is crazy, right? I mean, who knew vaping had such an intense history? I mean, Paul over here got a little too inspired by the episode and he ended up injuring himself. Do you want to tell them how, Paul?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Oh, no, Paul? No? No? Okay, well, long story short, Paul was ripping so many fat clouds that he sprained his wrist. Now, Paul, I highly suggest you see a doctor. I mean, you might not even be able to vape again. Is that what you want? Well, don't worry, Paul, because finding a doctor is easy. Thanks to ZocDoc. Hey, it's an ad.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in-network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. Oh yeah, we're talking about booking in-network appointments with more than like over 100,000 doctors across every specialty, from mental health to dental health to primary care to urgent care and like so much more.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
You can filter for doctors or specialists who take your insurance, who are located nearby, who are a good fit for whatever need you may have, plus are highly rated by verified patients. Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Appointments made through ZocDoc also happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. Plus you can even score same day appointments. Now I love ZocDoc because one, it's easy. Two, it takes all the intimidation out of booking a freaking appointment and you don't waste time. Just show me the doctors that take my insurance. Is it that hard? Well, ZocDoc makes it easy. I love that.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to ZocDoc.com slash Dark History to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. That's ZocDoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash Dark History. ZocDoc.com slash Dark History. In 2021, a 29-year-old woman from Ohio named Jordan Brielle decided she wanted to quit smoking cigarettes.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
She'd been smoking pretty heavily since she was a teenager and she was ready to quit. So she decided to give vaping a try. I mean, it seemed to be working for so many other people, right? You know, great. So she picks one up, loves it. The flavors, the convenience, and not long after she started vaping, Jordan said that she became totally addicted. It was crazy.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
one addiction to another, you know? She said that she was spending around $500 a week to keep up with her vape habit. She was constantly hitting the vape pen. She said she would sleep with her pen, wake up, hit that shit, go back to bed, and she would take a shower, hit it in the shower. She wasn't taking breaks, okay?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
In 2023, about two years after she started vaping, Jordan said that she started to feel a little off. She felt like she had this heaviness in her chest. She went to the hospital several times thinking maybe she had like an infection or bronchitis. She also started to develop a horrible cough and she had little to no voice.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Her body was swelling up from her ankles to her kneecaps and she could barely walk. Her skin was turning gray. She was feeling confused. The doctors couldn't figure out like what was wrong with her and just would send her home. Everything came to a head in May of 2023 when Jordan's partner found her unresponsive in bed. She had black liquid, black liquid goo pouring out of her nose and mouth.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Now, just like every other man in the area, Herbert was a big time smoker. you know at one point he was uh said to be smoking like two packs a day now Herbert he knew he had to quit right but quitting cold turkey hell so he got to thinking what makes smoking so bad for your health I'm sure were like everything, right? Yeah, but he was thinking it.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
I guess at this time she was gasping and she like couldn't like catch her breath. She was still alive. Her partner called 911 and she was rushed to the hospital. Once she got there, the staff scanned Jordan's lungs and found that they were badly damaged. Doctors had to pump two liters of fluid out of Jordan's lungs.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
two liters that's like a big bottle of coke you know i guess the liquid that they had got out of her was like the vape juice because when you think about it if you vape because i know you do i know a lot of people vape like it's the juice was in her i know i know i'm gonna quit Jordan said, quote, Ugh. Okay.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Jordan had to be placed in an 11 day long medically induced coma, but thankfully she survived. Jordan has permanent lung damage as a result of all of this. And she also suffered a minor brain injury due to lack of oxygen. Oh my God. She said, quote, they told me if I had waited any longer, I wouldn't have been here. I haven't touched a vape since, end quote. Good for you.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
That must have been real scary. Even though cases like Jordan's are rare, she isn't the only person we know of to be hospitalized because of her vaping habit. And a lot of people weren't as lucky as her. Around the time Jordan got sick, other strange illnesses started to take over the media. And maybe you saw this.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
A condition called E-valley, which is a lung injury that's associated with e-cigarettes or vaping, this name E-valley was created because there was a surprising rise in vape related hospitalizations. E-Valley, what a name. It kind of reminds me of, do you guys play Animal Crossing? It sounds like an Animal Crossing island. I'm going to E-Valley. Send me your island codes. I'll come visit.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And it made me wonder like 50 years from now when they make movies about us, will we all have vapes in our hands? I mean, if they want like the movie to be accurate, vapes might be included. It seems to be a controversial topic, but to be fair, everyone is vaping these days.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Okay, I love Animal Crossing. Okay, so E-Valley, bad, bad. There's not a whole lot known about E-Valley. We do know patients went in with serious breathing issues and most cases turned out to be related to something found in illegal weed vape pens.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
called vitamin e acetate now weed vape pens are different i mean there's the same concept right but you don't know what chemical you're getting in these vapes when you hit and inhale the vitamin e in a vape pen form it could create a highly toxic gas they were around 2800 and 68 deaths. Most of the cases were connected to illegal street bought vape pens.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And it does seem like they're trying to scare us a lot with vaping, but the reality is there's still a lot of background information missing when it, when it comes or it came to like these cases. So people could have had health conditions that they didn't know they had before vaping. Some people could have lung damage from smoking cigarettes and some people buy their vapes in shady places.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
I keep saying this, when it comes to vaping, I feel like we are the test subjects. We really don't know long-term what this is gonna do to us, but we're gonna find out, bitch, because a lot of people out there are vaping. If you look around, I don't know where you live, but where I live, everyone has a fucking vape in their hand, and we're vaping all the time. I vape all the time.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Now Herbert wasn't in a lab, so he couldn't do like fancy experiments. He basically lived in the woods in Pennsylvania. So one day he looked in his backyard and thought, quote, the problem, as I concluded, was that when you burned leaves and wood, even if you did it in your backyard, it yielded a result that no one wanted to take into their lungs, end quote.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
It's disgusting, and I hate it, and I wanna quit. I don't know how. And it's like, I'm so good in my life, personally. Like, I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I'm not promiscuous. Not that there's anything, I would love to be. But like, I don't, like, I don't do anything wild. Like, vaping, I feel like, is my one vice. And that's what, I'm like, well, we all have that one thing.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Like, that's always my excuse. But shit, I would love to quit, you know? Because we really don't know where this is going to go. So... Good luck to us is what I'm getting at. What's crazy to me is that all the vapes we talked about today have something in common. They followed the same design Herbert patented in 1963.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
We could say poor Herbert, because he never saw like any money or any profit from that. But if it wasn't for Herbert, I mean, we probably wouldn't be here. So pros and cons, I don't know. Herbert wasn't bitter about it or anything though. In an interview, he said he was proud that he is at all associated with an invention that he believes helps people quit smoking.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
He said, quote, the only substantial thing I received was the satisfaction of saving millions of lives, end quote. Aw, see, that's so nice. And again, if you think about it, vaping really only took off in the last decade, so stay tuned. I don't know, we might just be dropping like flies. Everyone always wants to fight with me in like the comment section.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
There was another dark history we did where we mentioned popcorn lung and the vape community came after me so hard and I'm like, shut up. I vape too. For now, what we do know, vaping shouldn't be marketed towards kids, especially because nicotine does some shit to your brain. You should definitely look into this a little bit more about the effects that nicotine has on your brain.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And it might make sense as to why you're feeling the way you are. Anxiety, impulsiveness, anger, can't sleep, shakiness, like it all comes from nicotine. And if you're vaping a lot, it's probably
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
probably that just letting you know and you don't want this to be on your kids because you want your kids to develop a full brain and then let your brain go to okay you know so and kids they love this stuff well according to most of the studies we have available to us today vaping can be incredibly helpful if you want to stop smoking cigarettes just know as someone who has been doing this
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
You're just replacing one addiction to another. And I'm not trying to discourage you. Just know it's one addiction to another. Yeah, I know. Now, if you're like me and you're over it and you're ready to quit vaping, listen. Good for you. I'm right there with you. It's hard. So then I do nicotine gum and to help me like wean off of it.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
That seems to be working for me as long as I'm keeping my mouth busy. There are also medications you can ask your doctor about to help you quit. There's also a phone number you can call 1-800-QUIT-NOW or 1-877-44U-QUIT. And you can call this number, talk with a counselor who can help you get this quitting process started, which is nice. Or maybe you're like, I hate calling people on the phone.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
So Herbert got to figuring out how can you heat something up without making it toxic? So he goes to the kitchen and he opens up the fridge when he has another thought, saying, quote, I happen to remember how tea is brewed. That solved the problem. Using logic, I had to find a way to replace burning tobacco and paper with heated, moist, flavored air. End quote. So this just gets his mind going.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Well, you can actually chat with the National Cancer Institute at Live Help, or you can text QUIT to 47848. If you need to get help, it's better than suffering in silence, you know? I'm going to call this number. I'm very curious to see what they have to say. Like, I love vaping.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
You know, when I tried to quit smoking originally back in the day, you can tell me like, there was nothing you can say to me to make me feel better at that time there, you know? But I remember I came across this picture and it was of a human body. And it was like, here's what your lungs look like every day that you quit smoking. And it was like, after...
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
two weeks this starts to grow after four weeks this starts to grow like your lungs know how to repair themselves so if you quit like they your lungs can fix itself and i would read this chart and it always gave me motivation knowing like okay my lungs are now like doing this today
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
It kind of sounds stupid as I say it out loud, but it's also kind of reminds me of women when they're pregnant and then they do those apps and it's like, your baby's a pea. And then like the next day, your baby's a mango. It was like that, but like your lungs are now this today. Your lungs are now that.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And that was what really kept me going was having this visual element of what my lungs looked like. They could be lying, but like, I don't know. That's what kept me going. And maybe I should do that again. for vaping, I don't know. Stay tuned. I mean, maybe in a few years we'll be doing another dark history of like, hey, vaping. That went wrong. And look, if you vape, I'm not here to judge.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Okay, we're all just trying to make it through this life. I fucking get it. I'd love to hear your thoughts though down below. So let me know in the comment section. I've also heard about this new thing. It's not new. God, what is it called? It's like a chewing tobacco, but it comes in little pouches and you put it in your lip.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
and you don't have to spit and kids are now really liking this so i think vaping might be phasing out and people are going to be going to this new lip thing it's called zen it's called zen parents just letting you know because kids are doing this it kind of looks they come in like a little Like it could be mints, who knows? You open it up, you put one of those in, you don't even know it's there.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They don't have to spit. There's none of that nasty tobacco to it. It comes in a clear pouch, not sponsored. No, I haven't tried one because I feel like it's just going to be another addiction for me. And I don't want to have to like lose my lips. But just letting you know, parents, Zyn, that's out there too. Vaping, there's a lot. I don't know how you guys are raising kids out there.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
You gotta be aware on the social medias, on the drugs that are out there are so different, the nicotines, the energy drinks. God be with you, okay? Now, after this episode, I personally am ready for a little escapism. And my personal favorite place to escape to, Disneyland. specifically the Pirates of the Caribbean ride.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Now, it's crazy that it started as a ride and then they based a whole movie franchise off of it, right? And it was like super popular because people just, I guess, are obsessed with pirates. People love pirates. And I discovered that pirates in real life are way more violent and sexual than even Captain Jack. And my favorite part, some of the most well-known pirates in history were women.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
So join me for the dark history of pirates. Arr! By the way, we're dark next week, so there won't be a new upload, but we'll be back on March 12th. Hope to see you there. Well, friends, thanks for hanging out with me today. You can actually watch these episodes after the podcast airs on Thursday over on my YouTube. Also, you can catch up on my murder mystery and makeup. I do that too.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
He's like, I have to figure out a way to trap hot, moist air into some kind of device I can suck on. So he looks around his scrap yard and he grabs some extra metal and he gets to work. And what he ends up inventing is a black metal tube with a silver tip. It was battery powered and able to make vapor out of heating a liquid.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And while you're there, hit that subscribe button, because again, I... I have something for you all the time. Now let's get to my favorite part. Let's read a couple of comments you guys have left me. Dylanfell6975 said, Bailey, will you marry me? Dylan. Okay, I got a couple questions for you. One, what's your credit score? Do you have a 401k? Do you have a savings? Do you have a career?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Where do you live? Are you, I'm not trying to be shallow, but like, if we went to a concert together, would you be able to put me on your shoulders? If there was a fire in the house, would you be able to carry me out? How's your dental hygiene? Do you have any serious illnesses I should know about? What are your dreams? What are your goals? Are you good at Scrabble? How do you sleep at night?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Do you snore? Are you a bed hog? Do you like animals? Dylan, we can't just jump into this like this, you know? Like, we gotta get to know each other a little bit, you know? Is there a ring? If you come from money, you can skip all those questions, go to the straight of the line, and pick me up at seven, okay? Thank you. Hope to see you there.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Allie Graham left us a fun fact saying, did you know that Google's original name was Backrub? Okay, all right. Okay, Backrub? Okay, okay. I'm trying to process this. So I'm glad they decided to pivot to Google because I think Google is more, it's catchy, it's good. Backrub sounds like something... It sounds creepy.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
It sounds like your creepy uncle coming up, rubbing your shoulders, and you're sitting there like, okay, yeah. Backrub. It's a little too close to Backpage, but, you know, I want to do an episode on Google. I really do. Yeah. We'll see, though. They might kill me. They own everything. Okay. Well, thank you for that.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
I'm going to look that up because I'm very interested in how they came up with that name. Backrub. Apocalypse Mouse. Love that. 473 left us an episode suggestion. Squirrel cage jails. Squirrel cage jails. Okay, okay, okay. Apocalypse Mouse, you are onto something. Just found out a squirrel cage jail is a jail cell that would rotate in a circle constantly so prisoners couldn't talk to each other.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Wow, that's really interesting. I am intrigued. Squirrel, cage, jail. I was over here thinking, have you ever heard of a blue squirrel? Well, blue squirrel, A lot of makeup brushes were made from blue squirrel. They don't really do it so much anymore, but like, and that was like one of the best hairs you could get, blue squirrel.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
So I was thinking, oh, this is probably where they get all that hair from, but no, that was a pivot. Okay. Well, thank you guys so much for watching and hanging out with me and always recommending episode suggestions. I love it so much. Make sure to leave a comment and maybe I will read yours. Wouldn't that be fun? Okay. And hey, if you don't know, Dark History is an Audioboom original.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Herbert's invention is very similar to what we know today as like the vape pen. Now the difference is, Herbert did not want there to be any type of addictive substance in it, like nicotine, but he did go on to invent vape juice that would go inside of this little contraption. And not just any random vape juice. He thought of all of his favorite things he liked to eat and drink.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
I want to give a big special thank you to our expert, Chelsea Boyd, epidemiologist and health policy thought leader. And I'm your host, Bailey Sarian. I hope you have a good day. You make good choices. And I will be talking to you very soon. Goodbye.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Things like rum, cinnamon, mint. And he managed to create a vapor for each flavor. When he inhaled the pen, It was like drinking a Mai Tai. Not only would this help people quit smoking, he thought, you know, but Herbert was also thinking maybe it could help people diet. I mean, a lot of people were smoking because it was being advertised as like, skip a meal, have a cigarette.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
So kind of like, okay, I can see the connection there. Herbert called this invention the smokeless. And in 1963, he patented it. He packed his briefcase and started networking with people to get this invention off the ground.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
He knew that this had so much potential, so he was pitching this idea to chemical companies, pharmaceutical companies, tobacco companies, but for some reason, no one wanted to touch it. Now, Herbert was devastated. He knew that this device had so much potential. And here's what really sucked.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Herbert was trying to make his smokeless device pop off during a time when most of America didn't consider smoking a serious issue. No one really knew that they were all gonna be dying. You know, like he was just ahead of his time. It's like, why smoke that when I could just have my lucky strike?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
If you've ever watched my TikTok like for you page videos on Instagram, you know that I take, I like to take a hit of the devil's lettuce from a vape pen. But every time I post one of those videos without fail, someone is like, you know, vaping so bad for you, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, I know, you know, People are always on opposite sides of the fence, really.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
A year after his invention failed, the US Surgeon General publicly released a report showing a direct connection between lung cancer and smoking. The public finally realized that they needed to at least try to quit smoking because, look, You're gonna die. There could be like some deadly consequences, okay?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Herbert gave up hope after none of those companies or corporations took interest in the smokeless, even after the report came out. So his patent expired and his invention kind of just... fizzled out. Over a decade would go by before the vape pen returned to society, but this time it had to have something that a smoker would quit their cigarettes for.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
It needed to be something that would take the edge off quitting cold turkey and keep users coming back for more. Well, seasons are changing. I don't know about you, but I'm dry. I'm looking like Leatherface. I'm looking like beef jerky. I'm looking like dehydrated, thirsty, ugh.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
You know, and with the changing seasons, you have to change your skincare, because your skin needs different things, you know? And it can be frustrating. Like, where do you start? But that's why I'm always excited to partner with Apostrophe.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Whether you're dealing with acne, signs of aging, dark spots, dehydration, oily skin, Apostrophe helps you get access to the right treatment for you and your skin. Now all you have to do is fill out an online consultation, snap a few selfies of your skin, then your dermatology provider will create a customized treatment plan just for you. Through Apostrophe, you can get access to...
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
treatments, medications, skincare, whatever you need to help address your skin concerns. I love Apostrophe. I've been using it for years. Hi, have you been watching? I really, really use Apostrophe. I love it. It's easy. You don't have to leave your house. You update your profile online. A dermatologist will be like, okay, here's what you need to do.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And then it gets, whatever like you decide to get, it gets shipped to your house. So you don't even have to leave. It's the best. Right now we have a special deal for our audience. You can get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com slash dark history. When you use our code dark history, that's a savings of $15. And listen, this code is only available to our listeners.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
To get started, just go to apostrophe.com slash dark history and then click get started. Then use our code dark history at sign up and then you'll get your first visit for only $5. It's worth it. I'm telling you. A big thank you to Apostrophe for sponsoring today's episode. Now let's get back to today's story. So by this point, it's the 1970s.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Tons of people are still smoking, but now they at least have some knowledge that it's bad for them and they're looking for alternatives. Then in 1979, a man named Phil Ray was one of those people looking for a solution. Phil, he worked, well, he was like a computer genius who worked for NASA, and he was known for helping men land on the moon. So, smart guy, you know?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
But everyone has their vice, and for Phil, he was a smoker. He liked smoking, okay? And he got to the point where he really wanted to quit, but there weren't any good options out there. Well, that's not true. There was an option. The only option was nicotine gum, but at this time it wasn't very effective nor satisfying. You didn't get that. It's just, it's not the same, you know?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And like, look, real talk here, real talk. People always say like, well, it's better than smoking cigarettes. And you're like, well, okay. She's like, I don't know, you know? So of course, naturally, I was like, look, we gotta like look into this, right? Who the hell invented the vape pen? And are they really that bad for you? Spoiler alert, let me just say the answer might surprise you.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
And he's thinking, why am I waiting around for someone to invent a smoking alternative? I work at fricking NASA. I need to figure this out, you know? So Phil goes to his doctor. His doctor's name is Norman Jacobson. And he asked him to help create an e-cigarette. He wanted to preserve the buzz and the throat hit of smoking a cigarette, but eliminate the smoke.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
So he designed a product that was the size and shape of a cigarette. And it was even painted to look like one too. Oh, I was like, oh, okay. But what was in it? Well, Phil had a light bulb moment.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
what if people smoke pure nicotine vapor that way people could actually stop buying packs of cigarettes and maybe even just stop smoking altogether at this time science was saying that smoking was bad for your lungs and caused cancer which true okay chemicals all that yes but a major reason people were addicted to smoking and still are is because of the nicotine.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
Nicotine is a chemical that is in the tobacco plant. So if you could figure out a way to get your nicotine fix without hurting your lungs, you should be good, right? Now, scientists, of course, did not agree with this because nicotine was still addictive and it's still a chemical, you know?
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
But Phil argued that his nicotine e-cigarette was basically like nicotine gum, just a different delivery system. A piece of paper soaked in liquid nicotine would be placed inside the device and once you inhaled, a beautiful puffy cloud of pure nicotine would come up. Phil called this device the favor. Oh. He filed a patent and actually got the product sold on the market.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
They even used the tagline, do yourself a favor when advertising it in stores. And it seemed like this was the product of the future for smokers looking to quit. But pretty much right when it got on the market, the FDA tried to ban it, which is like... They claimed it was a drug. Dr. Jacobson, Phil's co-inventor, called BS. He's like, this is not a drug.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
The favor had less nicotine than a traditional cigarette. So how could their product be a drug? But cigarettes were still allowed to be sold. It made no sense. Make it make sense. They were pissed. And even though Dr. Jacobson didn't have any solid evidence, he believed that Big Tobacco screwed with their company because they knew how successful the product would be or could be.
Dark History
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And I mean, they would be in direct competition with each other. And Big Tobacco, they want to keep their customers at all costs, okay? But also, to be fair, Phil and Dr. Jacobson were ignoring a major flaw with their product. The Favors e-cig juice is just nicotine. When nicotine sits for a while, it becomes very bitter and it tastes nasty.
Dark History
161: Saving Millions or Making us SICK?? The Shocking Truth Behind Vaping
The product would have probably flopped on the market anyway. Still, the product created an appetite for nicotine in e-cigs. And Phil is actually the guy who created the term vaping. Wow, way to leave your mark, Phil. I mean, you could say it wasn't all a waste. And look, over the next few decades, so many different companies tried to create an e-cig that actually could make it in the market.
Dark History
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And all of them failed. Finally, in 2003, one man succeeded. And he single-handedly changed the vaping scene forever. In the 90s, a man named Han Lick Love that. Went to study traditional Chinese medicine at college. He was always supposed to go there. It was like a career chosen for him when he was younger. Han was born in China where there were more than 300 million smokers.
Dark History
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Welcome to the dark history of vaping. Hi friends, I hope you're having a wonderful day today. My name is Bailey Sarian, and I'd like to welcome you to my podcast, Dark History. Here, we believe history does not have to be boring. It might be tragic, sometimes it's happy, but either way, it's our dark history.
Dark History
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So just like many people he knew, as soon as Han was an adult, he started smoking. He said that as soon as he woke up, cigarette in the mouth. He'd go to class, smoke in between, smoke at lunch, smoke on the way home, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke. He'd usually go through two packs by the time he got home and smoke a third over dinner and drinks with his colleagues.
Dark History
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Damn, didn't you feel like doo-doo? Okay, side story, side note. I started smoking cigarettes when I was 18, because I wanted to be like Mary Kate Olsen, whatever, come from me, don't care. But I just thought she was so cool, and I wanted to smoke, and then like, it's very addictive, you know? And you just, whatever, I smoked so much.
Dark History
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I was up to like, I thought, I was up to a pack a day at one point in my life, and I felt like garbage. So I don't know how you're up to three. I don't smoke anymore. I vape. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Leave me alone. Shut up. Shut up. When I first got into vaping, the only people who were doing it were like kind of, no offense, low key, high, I was there though, douchebags.
Dark History
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Like all the douchebags, all the bros, they were vaping. It was like so embarrassing and it was like cringy. And I show up today and Paul looks exactly how these vape bros used to look. And maybe they still look this way. And I'm just out of touch now because I'm a little bit older. But Paul, you look, you look like a vape bro. Vape life! Anywho, back on track, Bailey. Good times.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Now before going on this date Johnny actually met up with his friends and he told him that he was going to meet this lady from Plenty of Fish. Now Johnny actually gave his friends the address that Mark who was once again pretending to be a woman, had given him for the meetup. So he's like, this is where I'm going. Like, this is the address. And he gives this to his friends.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So once he's done hanging out with his friends, he's like, he heads out. He's gonna go on this date. Johnny heads to the location, you know, that was sent to him. And kind of like before, Johnny was told to enter through the garage. So he parks his car and then he goes into the garage.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So when Johnny gets inside the garage, he's then attacked with a lead pipe. And then like, once he's like knocked out or whatever, attacked with a lead pipe. And then after that, he was stabbed to death. Brutal. Like what the, what? Like he didn't have time to think. Well, it was Mark. Okay. It was Mark. Mark then takes it like a step further and and decides to cut up and dismember Johnny's body.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I guess like Mark tried to burn some of the body parts. Yeah, but we know he tried to. I think he realized it either wasn't like a good idea or something because he gave up on that. But he ends up like dismembering the body and like cutting it up and then putting the remains in different garbage bags.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I'm assuming they met in college because like they got married like right after graduating college, but you know, whatever. But Megan, she was from Illinois and the two of them, they got married, you know, and Mark ended up moving to Illinois with her. And again, there was like not much said about their marriage, but I think it's safe to say
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And then he was gonna take all those garbage bags and like drop them into the storm sewer, which he does. I mean, if you've been paying attention, which I'm sure you have been, this whole attack was just like the movie that Mark had made called House of Cards. Mark had like just filmed House of Cards two weeks prior to this attack, to this murder, sorry.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And it was filmed in that garage where the murder took place. I don't know what to say to that. So three days go by and Johnny's friends and family, they're like getting kind of worried about him. You know, at first they thought like, oh, he's busy, you know, whatever. But on day three, they're like, okay, something's not right.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Especially because there was an email that went out from Johnny's, Johnny's email account saying that he had met a woman who was taking him on a tropical vacation to Costa Rica. And it's like, okay. What? Right? So Johnny had sent out an email from his account and I have it in my notes. Don't laugh at me. The email went out October 13th, 2008 at 8.52 a.m.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
It says, hey there, I've met an extraordinary woman named Jen who has offered to take me on a nice long tropical vacation. We'll be staying in her winter home in Costa Rica. Phone number to follow soon. I won't be back in town until December 10th, but I will be checking my email periodically. See you around the holidays, Johnny. If I could flip this table, I would.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So, um, people were like, I don't know what kind of friends you have, but like if you're a friend, I know. Okay. If one of my friends was like, sent me this type of email, I'd be like, first of all, what? Second of all, where's the invite? Third of all. What? Like it just, right? It doesn't, it doesn't make sense. It's just random.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And then on top of that, Johnny's boss also received a resignation letter through the email, through Johnny's email. And it was like, I'm quitting my job. I'm going to Costa Rica or whatever. The boss writes back asking for a forwarding address to send Johnny his final paycheck. But like... He never got a response. So all of this is not sitting right with Johnny's friends and family.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
They knew something was up. And these are some great friends, seriously. Three days and they're worrying. I could be missing for weeks. I don't know who's showing up. But these friends, they end up driving over to Johnny's condo and they decide to break in.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
because they think like inside they can find some kind of clue or evidence or maybe Johnny's inside like in the condo and like no one knows or something you know they were just like going and looking for something now when they go outside technically they don't like there's no evidence found but what they do notice was that there appeared to be no evidence that Johnny had left for a vacation
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
It didn't work out because after three years of marriage, they got divorced. And like, that's all that was said about the marriage. After the divorce, Mark had moved back to Canada. And while he was back at home, he signed up for a dating website. you know, plenty of fish. He was like, I'm gonna get back out there and start dating again.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Like all of his belongings were all still there. There was no sign that he had like taken off for a long stay somewhere. Nothing like, again, bizarre, weird, not sitting right. So they decide it's best to call the police. I know. I was like, these people, these are some great friends, right? So when they go to police, you know, they tell them everything they know, but
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
the handover, the evidence that Johnny had shared with them. Remember like before he went on the date, Johnny had shared the location of the date he was going on. And that was like, the last time they saw him. So luckily they still had this information and they go to the police, they give the police the location and these directions would lead the police directly to the garage Mark was renting.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So police, they go out to the location and when they get there, they come across Mark, you know, and at first they weren't considering him to be a suspect or anything. They just wanted to ask him some questions, but they knew like something wasn't right with Mark's story. Because Mark told police that Johnny had come by.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
He's like, yeah, Johnny came by and bought his, Mark's Mazda for just 40 Canadian dollars. And then after that, Johnny told him that he was leaving the country with a woman and police are like, $40. Huh? Red flag. What? That doesn't make sense. So police, they, you know, they're at this garage location and they're like, can we like look around the garage?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So they're like looking around and they notice that there's blood spatter inside. And the police are like, you know, what's this about? There seems to be like blood all over the walls. What's up? And Mark tells the police like, oh, I just filmed a movie called House of Cards. And we just filmed an execution scene. And, you know, we got fake blood everywhere. You know, cause it's for a movie.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So the police ask like, oh, can we collect the names of like these actors from the movie so they can go and you know, question them and make sure like this movie scene actually happened. And Mark is like, yeah, no problem. Hands over the names to these actors and whatnot and thinks he's golden. So police, they actually go and they find one of the actors who starred in Mark's film.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And the police ask like, hey, how much fake blood was like used in that execution scene? Was it messy? You know, was there blood everywhere? And then the actor responds to police by saying like, there was no blood. There was no fake blood. There was not, you know, I think you get it. Like, they're like, okay, this Mark guy, weird. We're gonna go back.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
We're gonna do, like, he's obviously knows something. They end up going back to Mark's garage and they end up doing a luminal test. And the luminal test can uncover blood that isn't visible to the naked eye. like they could spray it on or whatever. And then when they do a black light, it'll show you all the blood that used to be there before it was cleaned up.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So they do this luminol test and it reveals that like there was excessive amounts of human blood that had been cleaned up around this garage. And they're like, fucking sound the alarm. This is no fake blood. Like this was real. And it was a lot. Well, police, they're like, okay, we have our guy, right? Obviously. They're like, that was easy. Mystery solved.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Hi friends, how are you today? My name is Bailey Sarian and today is Monday, which means it's murder, mystery, and makeup Monday. If you're new here, hi. My name is Bailey Sarian and on Mondays I sit down and I talk about a true crime story that's been heavy on my noggin and I do my makeup at the same time. Let me tell you about today's story because I went down a rabbit hole with this guy.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So he gets on this dating website and he ends up meeting a girl named Jess. And this was like 2005. And the two of them, they hit it off and they start dating each other. So then in 2007, Mark, you know, he's still super into movies, right? And he wanted to create his own. It was his passion in life. So he worked on like a little passion project
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So the police say no, that this is their guy, right? And on October 31st, 2008, Mark Twitchell was arrested and charged with first degree murder. On Halloween. I know, I was like, wow, that's very fitting, kind of, you know? Like, all right. Once the media gets a hold of this story, it's out there, it's circulating, you know, it's getting around. And you know who sees it? Gilles.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Marc's first victim, he sees the story. He sees the story and he's like, oh my Lord. Like this is the same dude who attacked me. So once he sees the story, Gilles goes to police He decides to come forward and see what happened to him. And he does this on November 3rd. So just a few days after everything went down, you know?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So when Gila came forward, the media gave him the nickname, the one who got away, which is like, okay, yeah, I mean. And Gilles would later write a book called The One Who Got Away, Escape from the Kill Room. He got to share his story. Poor guy. I was thinking he probably had so much like guilt, you know, maybe, I don't know. I don't want to make assumptions, but I could only imagine.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So Mark ends up sitting in custody for like quite some time. And during this time, he's like swearing he's innocent. He's telling everyone that like he quote unquote accidentally killed Johnny in self-defense. And it was like, make it make sense. But he wasn't trying. He was just like, it was self-defense.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
But after two years behind bars, Mark finally like cracks and he ends up giving police handwritten directions as to where he dumped Johnny's remains. Because at this point they didn't find his remains yet. So they print out this little like Google map. And then what's his name? Mark.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
He like, he wrote handwritten details at the bottom of the page and it kind of like drew like where the remains were at. So at the bottom, he like hand wrote the location of where to find the remains.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
in an alleyway between 86th and 87th street south of 130 avenue where two manhole slash sewer covers are in close proximity the only area in the alley where this occurs the cover on easternmost edge of alley on private property fifth light post from 130 avenue indicated by red circle above and then he signed it and then he dated it they were able to uncover the remains
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Then in June, 2010, Mark was like fully ready to take the stand at his trial. Like he really thought he was gonna like say something good that was gonna get him off the hook because he really like wanted to argue that he had quote unquote accidentally killed Johnny in a horrific accident of self-defense. Like he was gonna fight for this.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So while he was in prison, this guy named Steve, Steve was working as like an investigative journalist with Edmonton Journal. He got wind of the story, wanted to talk to Mark. So he like wrote him a letter and started talking with Mark behind bars. And boy, did Mark deliver. Kind of. Steve said that like Mark just like straight up called him out of the blue. I was like, hey, I got your letter.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I would love to communicate with you. And then afterwards, the two of them kept in contact by writing each other letters. So they were sending letters back and forth. And Steve said that he got around 30 to 35 letters from Mark. It was like a total of 350 pages.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
steve said he was trying to push mark to explain himself but like he never received a good answer and it was like yeah you know i don't think you can receive a good answer with these types of people right there is no good answer i don't know what would qualify as a good answer i did it for the gram i don't know we are teresa and nemo and that's why we switched to shopify the platform we used before shopify needed regular updates that sometimes led to the shop not working
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And it was a Star Wars fan film that was written, produced, and directed by him. Oh yes, he did it all. Now when it came to this film of his, I mean, he went off. All the way off. I mean, Mark had a major talent for prop and costume design. For his film, he had created like replica suits from the Star Wars universe. And honestly, they looked really legit.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
What is a good answer? It doesn't matter really, but there wasn't one. One of the letters from Mark said, quote, after curiously shoving aside my human sensibilities, I dealt with his remains in a disrespectful manner that traumatized me forever, end quote. He was referring to Johnny's murder. And then in another letter, it said, quote, it would appear that I'm unique in the world.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
There is no key, no root cause. End quote. I know. Have you ever noticed that like killers, they always want to be so unique and special. They always claim this shit. You know, I mean, I am talking about him. So I guess like, I don't think he's unique. Okay. Thank you. There was another letter that said, quote, it is what it is. And I am what I am. Wow, I know he's so deep.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Steve, the journalist, he actually wrote about the conversations that he had with Mark in a book titled The Devil's Cinema, The Untold Story Behind Mark Twitchell's Kill Room. So when police had arrested Mark, they also searched his home and his car and they took away like anything and everything that might have been evidence or have evidence on it.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
With that being said, at the time of his arrest, they got Mark's laptop. Oh, the laptop. So of course they search it, right? And they uncover a document that Mark tried to delete. And you know how computers go. Like you think you delete something. Baby girl, Lisa, listen, no. It can always be found, can always be found. So when they searched his computer, they came across a document called S.K.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Confessions. And this would end up being like the key piece of evidence for the murder trial. S.K. Confessions, to their surprise, stood for Serial Killer Confessions. Police are like, great, you know, confess away. Love that, we love a confession. SK Confessions starts off with, this story is based on true events. Great, love that. The names and events were altered slightly to protect the guilty.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
This is a story of my progression into becoming a serial killer. Like anyone just starting out in a new skill, I had a bit of trial and error in the beginning of my misadventures. Allow me to start from the beginning, and I think you'll see what I mean. It's like, go on.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I don't remember the exact place and time it was that I decided to become a serial killer, but I remember the sensation that hit me when I committed to the decision. It was a rush of pure euphoria. I felt lighter, less stressed, if you will, at the freedom of the prospect.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
There was something about urgently exploring my dark side that greatly appealed to me, and I'm such a methodical planner and thinker, the very challenge itself was enticing to behold. This realization was just the last in a series of new discoveries I made about myself. I just knew I was different somehow from the rest of humanity.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So the title of this movie was called Secrets of the Rebellion. And it was said that it was receiving like some online hype. People were like kind of excited about it. But like, I'm not really sure because the movie, it wasn't ever completed or released. So I'm not sure who or where they were hyping this up, but allegedly it was hyped.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I feel no such emotions as empathy or sympathy toward others, for example. Great. So this document literally had Mark's planning, his failed first attempt and his successful second attempt to lure a man to his garage by using a fake dating profile in order to murder them. Like it matched line by line to Johnny's murder. Line by line. In this document, I mean, it included like the hockey mask,
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
the attack with the lead pipe, the quote unquote, Dexter prepped garage. There was a line about the killer trying to burn the remains in a barrel, which police had found a barrel, a burned barrel inside of Mark's garage. So they were like, okay, check, check. Just kind of like a, it was like a checklist really. In the confession, it got really dark. He wrote about how he cut Johnny's head
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
and like gave details saying, um, I grabbed his jaw with my gloved hand and moved it while making a funny voice to make it look like it was talking and chuckled to myself at the total silliness of it all. You know, What the hell do you even say to that? So this document alone is pretty damning, but police, I mean, they found lots of other evidence of Mark's involvement in the murder.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Like they found Johnny's blood on several articles of Mark's clothing. They also found the knife that was used, the murder weapon. And it, you know, it belonged to Mark. There was like dozens of pieces of evidence tying Mark to Johnny's death. And they were found in Mark's home. They were in his car. They were at his parents' house and also the rented garage where the murder happened.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
There was also like evidence that was recovered from Johnny's car. I guess after the murder, Mark was straight up driving around in Johnny's car. Yeah, great. So Mark also admitted to accessing Johnny's email after his death and sent out that email telling Johnny's friends and family that he was going away on vacation.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Like he admitted to it, which was just confusing to me because he was claiming it was self-defense, but then like, this doesn't help your case. You know? Oh, oh, oh. And then there was also another document that was found on his computer. And this document did not make its way into evidence. I don't know why. I didn't, I'm sorry.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I didn't really look that heavily into it, why it didn't make it into evidence. Sorry about that. I'll do better next time. But I have it in my notes. It was titled, A Profile of a Psychopath. Now, obviously investigators, they find it on his computer and they believe like, you know, Mark had written this, it was on his computer, but it went on to say some stuff.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
It started off with saying, I habitually lied my entire life, despite my incredibly well-adjusted and healthy family life and upbringing, it never stopped. I always apologized, but never meant it and never corrected the behavior. For as long as I can remember, I have always had a distinct lack of empathy. I've always had a dark side. I've had a sugarcoat for the world.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I feel like also Mark probably just was telling people like, yeah, it was super hyped. Mark loved Star Wars. He would dress up in like a costume that he made himself and he would attend movie premieres or anything that was related to the Star Wars world. That was hard for me to say. Star Wars world. You get it. He would dress up. That's great. Like I like, like have your hobby. That's great.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I've often fantasized about killing people who have wronged me or threatened to hurt me or my family in the future. But that's where it ends. Well, obviously not. Well, it goes on to say, like, I can direct my dark energies into my film work. And like, as a producer, I can profit from the sale of my work and like, blah, blah, blah. No one cares about your movie shit. Sorry. He admits.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
to cheating on his wife pretty often, like all the time. And he said, I still cheat, but only for the thrill of it. And then going on to say, I had a conversation with my wife one night where we fully explored my lack of empathy. She asked me a variety of probing questions. Every answer I gave her, although truthful this time or deeply disappointing to her.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
No after no, when she was looking for yes after yes. His wife is an excellent mother and the greatest partner that anyone could ever ask for. So... It's a little mixed there, isn't it, huh? So they find this. Now this, again, it doesn't get admitted to evidence at all, but they found it. And I think that says a lot too. So... The trial, let's talk about the trial.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So the trial began and through his lawyer, Mark tried to plead guilty so he would get a lesser charge of interfering with a dead body. But the prosecution rejected that offer and they continued with the first degree murder charge. So the prosecution requested that Mark also be charged with the attempted murder of Gilles in the same case.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
But for some reason, well, the judge decided to keep the two cases separate. During his trial, Mark admitted to killing Johnny and also to writing the SK confessions. But he went with his original story saying that the murder was an act of self-defense. Mark also went on to say that the SK Confessions was fiction based on fact.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
As if to say he planned Johnny's death deliberately in order to write a compelling story. I know, I was like, I'm not sure how, again, how is this helping you? How is this helping your case? I don't know, at least he's confessing. I'll give him that. The prosecution, they really focused in on Mark's obsession with the television program, Dexter.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
If you don't know, Dexter was an American crime drama about this guy named Dexter Morgan, who was like a blood spatter expert who solved murders but committed them to. I guess he was a serial killer, but his justification was that he was killing quote unquote bad people. The show ran from like 2006 to 2013. People really liked it, okay? Everyone talked about it. Mark liked it too.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
He even posed as Dexter Morgan on Facebook. Like he was a total fan boy. I know everyone, everyone was talking about that show when it came out and everyone was like, you have to watch it, you have to watch it. And I never watched it. I'm sorry. I know. I hear it was so good. I'm sorry. I miss that boat. Everyone got on that boat. I was like, bye boat. Bye.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I'll be over here watching Full House again. I don't know. I just never got. Maybe I'll watch it one day. I don't know. But everyone loved that show. Okay, everyone loved it. So the prosecutors were like, Mark wanted to become a serial killer inspired by this television program. And like he was trying to merge his violent fantasies with real life experiences, just like the TV character did.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So once again, you know, the Dexter connection. When the media heard about this, they started referring to Mark as the Dexter killer. So keeping the Dexter theme going, many believed Mark's kill garage resembled a scene right out of the show. Like the inside of his garage, it had plastic sheets like all over covering all the windows and There's a table with like blood spatter all over it.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
But listen, I guess his costumes were like really, really good because there were two costume contests that he won in 2007. One was at Bear's Halloween Howler and the other was at Sonic's Monster Mash Halloween Bash. What a name. And like each of these were Halloween parties. And you know they had awards for like best costume. And Mark he won. Great, you know? You know the movie Transformers?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And then there were cleaning supplies laid out. So Gilles took the stand and told the court about his experience with Mark and literally how just like a week before Johnny's death, he barely escaped Mark's attack. There was also another person who took the stand. Their name was Renee.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And I guess this person was like kind of friends with Mark, not understanding fully what their relationship was, but Mark felt comfortable enough with this person to like talk freely with them. So this person Renee told the court that Mark had sent them a message on Facebook saying that he quote, crossed the line. and he'd sent this message the weekend of Johnny's death. What line?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So then Mark went on to discuss through Facebook Messenger with this Renee person, the best way to kill someone So, all right. You know, I don't know what Mark was doing here, but you know, thank God for like receipts. This guy is just an idiot. So on April 12th, 2011, after five hours of deliberation, the 12 member jury returned with the verdict of guilty. I mean, right?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And they should, if they didn't, we'd probably, I'd be like, what the fuck? So after the verdict came through, that's when the courts did the victim impact statements. It's part of like the sentencing procedures. Johnny's mother was there and she went on to say like, it was just really sad. There's like no words to describe the pain and feeling of horror one goes through. There's no joy in my life.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
It's been ripped away from me. and then adding it was her wish that Marc die a slow death in prison, reflecting on his crime. Makes sense. Yeah, I would probably wish that too. After what the judge called a very difficult case, Marc was given life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Once Marc was convicted and sentenced to the maximum prison term, the court found that there was no need to try Marc for the attempted murder of Gilles. Which is like, I'm torn on that. Like, I mean, I get why they did it, you know? But at the same time, like as a victim, you'd probably want like some kind of justice. Like, but it's fine. Like he got, Mark got locked away forever.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I just hope Jules is okay. And like he got the closure and healing that he needed, you know? So Mark, who was 31 at the time of sentencing, he was asked, you know, by the judge, like, do you have anything you want to add? And Mark said, I think I'll pass on that. So. For someone who likes to talk, he sure didn't want to talk, you know?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So he was being like walked out of the courtroom, you know, by like the sheriff people or whatever. And one of Johnny's family members yelled, bye, have fun. Kind of nice little dig, you know? Fuck that gang. So in May of 2011- This was like a few weeks after his sentencing. Mark filed a written appeal without the help of a lawyer where he requested a retrial, this time without a jury.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
He said, the media attention surrounding my case was so extensive, so blatant, and so overtly sensationalized that it is unreasonable to expect any unsequestered jury to have remained uninfluenced by it, regardless of judge's instructions in the charge. All right.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
He then added he believed his lawyer did not, quote, adequately and satisfactorily addressed key points on state of mind and credibility. Those points include his advanced knowledge of computers, which undermines the implication I would use a computer to carry out a crime. All right, my guy, like, no, no, that ain't it. He's trying.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Mark also took issue with how the Crown, aka the court, presented evidence where he lied to his former girlfriend, his wife, and also the police, saying that, quote, this led the jury to make an inappropriate and skewed character judgment, concluding that I'm a lifetime liar. End quote. You know, actually, I believe in those, that SK Confessions. Didn't it say I've been lying all my life?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I'm a habitual liar. I think that is what actually made people think that he's a lifetime liar. Just my opinion. Maybe it was that. So Mark tried. He really did. And then he dropped his appeal in February of 2012 when he realized he was an idiot. Mark Twitchell is serving his life sentence at a maximum security prison in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Yeah, you know the movie Transformers. So I guess his costume, he made a suit that was just like Bumblebee from Transformers. But Mark said that he went through 240 square feet of plexiglass and foam to make this suit that he made. I'm sure it made him feel good to, you know, when you go off like that and to like be acknowledged and win a prize and, good for him, you know?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Well, while he's been in prison, he's still doing stupid shit. It was said that in prison, Mark continued to watch Dexter. The media reported that he purchased a flat screen TV and also a cable package, which I was like, what? All right. But he would watch like reruns of Dexter and then new episodes as they were coming out. Then two years after his imprisonment,
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Mark wanted to try and revive his film career. Oh yes. Oh yes. So while in prison, he requested access to the hard drives that the police had confiscated, which he believed had hundreds of hours of unreleased film footage on it. There's like a letter from prison. Mark wrote, all the footage is sheer gold. Way too many amazing people gave so much of themselves to make that film magic.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
All right. Mark believed that his life's work was being held hostage, quote unquote held hostage by the courts and that it was slowly being like suffocated in the process. So Mark was like, he's really wanted to get the footage. He was like, my life's work, it means everything to me. And I think like Mark went on to say like, I refuse to let my story, my life end in a tragedy.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Yeah, what a serious clown. What a fucking clown. Sorry, dude, but you're an idiot. Stay locked up. Thank you. I feel bad for his wife and stuff, right? Like I don't, I didn't really look too much into like what happened to her. I kind of like to leave them out of it because it's like she didn't fucking know.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So there was like a staff sergeant who was like head of Edmonton's homicide unit who came out and said like, why would we give anything back to a convicted murderer? He's taken a life and he shouldn't benefit from that in any way.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
period and that my friends is where this story ends this was the mark twitchell case aka the dexter killer the clown the idiot the like may he sit in prison forever rest in peace to poor johnny who just freaking wanted to go on a date huh It was so sad. I mean, like, luckily he had some good friends and like people who cared about him, right?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And this really helped like catch Mark before he can move on to the next one, which I'm sure he would have done, right? He probably would have kept going because he thought he's something. I thought about Jill a lot, you know, just for like not coming forward when he was originally attacked.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I understood like why, but I hope that men like feel like you guys do have a safe place to come forward if you're attacked and there's nothing wrong. with speaking up if something happens to you, you know? Which I'm sure my little speech means nothing, but I don't know. You know, it's just sad. Just sad. I hope he's okay, like, after the fact.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Like, surviving that awful crime and then, you know, like, survivor's guilt, I'm sure it was really hard. Other than that, one, make sure your man's going to work. Okay? Like, real talk, like, this guy was lying. Like, what was he doing? He's being weird. Okay? Does your man have a job? We gotta make sure, okay? Two, if you're going on a date, share your location. Share your location, okay?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Be careful out there, you guys. Seriously, go with your gut feeling. If something doesn't feel right, get the fuck out of there.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
and make sure you meet in a public place and i don't know i'm kind of like the worst because when i was like doing online dating i was so dumb that's not funny but like you think i would be smart and i was like making stupid mistakes i was like what you want to meet in an empty parking lot sure and then i'd be there like wait this is probably not a good idea just don't be like me all right
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Anyways, well, I hope you have a good rest of your day. You make good choices. Please be safe out there, okay? And I'll be talking to you guys later. Goodbye.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
That's the only time we'll be rooting for him, I guess. Anywho, not long after Mark and his girlfriend, Jess, they would go on to get married. And then about a year later, they would have a daughter. So throughout 2008, Mark started to work on like another passion project of his. It was a short crime film called House of Cards.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Now this short film was like about a killer who lured a cheating man off of an online dating website, attacking the victim with a lead pipe and then stabbing them to death. I know it was very clue. A lead pipe? Come on. Not sure what the moral of the story was, but like that's, you know, that's what he was going with. I have to say, I'm impressed with you guys.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
A lot of you reached out to me saying you're turning your passions into a side hustle. I'm proud of you. I see you online doing your thing, building your craft. I know that sometimes taking the first step and starting your own business, it's really hard. It's really, really hard.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And creating really great retail experiences can be tough, especially if you have multiple stores or ideas, a team, staff, whatever. It can be a lot. But with Shopify Point of Sale, you can do it all without complexity. Shopify's point of sale system is a unified command center for your retail business, which means it brings together in-store and online operations across 1,000 locations.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
With Shopify, you'll always be able to guarantee that shopping is always convenient. Endless aisle, ship to customer, buy online, pick up in store, all made simpler so customers can shop how they want and staff can have the tools to close the sale every time. With Shopify POS, you can keep shoppers coming back with personalized experiences.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Ugh, ugh. ah this guy's too much this guy's too much today we're talking about this 29 year old his name is mark and he was like a super fan of a tv show called dexter do you remember no okay great well we'll talk about it mark's obsession with the showtime series dexter would eventually lead to the media dubbing him as the dexter killer let me tell you This guy is a lot.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Now that alone is super helpful because as business owners, you know, bringing in new customers can be really expensive. And Shopify customers have seen real results from this system. Based on a report from EY, businesses on Shopify POS see real results, like 22% better total cost of ownership and benefits equivalent to an 8.9% uplift in sales on average. relative to the market set surveyed.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Want more? Check out at shopify.com slash makeup. Makeup is all lowercase. Shopify.com slash makeup, all lowercase. And learn how to create the best retail experiences without complexity. Shopify.com slash makeup, all lowercase. So with this film, Mark, you know, he would do the same thing. He would write, produce and direct it.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And then on top of that, he was also trying to gather funds to produce a feature length comedy called Day Players, which I guess was gonna be about like the secret lives of extras in the film industry. So, I mean, that's great, you know, good for him, I guess, whatever. Well, while following his passions in life, things were not going so well back at home.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Jess Twitchell, Mark's wife, would later say that the marriage started to go like downhill in the fall of 2008 and that they were at this point sleeping in separate rooms and like also trying to go to marriage counseling. Now, during the time of their marriage, she was under the impression that Mark was working as a salesman for a security company. I mean, every day Mark would get up.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
He would go to work every day. You know where I'm going with this. Because later on, she would learn that Mark actually didn't have a job. and was just pretending to go to work for the last five months. She had no idea. She had no clue. She didn't think twice about it, you know?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
He's like literally getting up every day, leaving the house and going to work and then returning like around five or whatever. Uh-uh, run for the hills quick, okay? Nay, nay. No. Okay? No. I'm trying to think of like, if I found out I was with someone and they were lying to me about going to work every day and they weren't going to work, I don't know what the F I would do. What?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
What have you been doing? What have you been doing? It doesn't matter, but she finds out. So Jess would later tell the court that on the days where he was committing his crimes, there was a note on the family kitchen calendar that said Mark was at his psychiatrist appointment. Oh yes, you know the calendar that you keep in the kitchen, you see everyone's schedule.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
His was saying that he was at a psychiatrist appointment and boy. Boy, on October 3rd, 2008, a computer company contractor, his name was Gilles, he was looking for love as everyone deserves. So he goes on plentyoffish.com and he ends up matching and like messaging this beautiful five foot, six inch blonde woman named Sheena. Now the two of them, I guess like hit it off.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
They're talking and messaging back and forth and they decide to meet in person. And Gilles thought it was kind of weird when the Sheena woman, she would not like give an actual address of where to meet her. Instead, Gilles was sent detailed directions that would lead him to the location where they would meet. I don't know, it kind of sounds confusing actually.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
You know, like normally you'd be like, hey, meet me here. And you send like an address or something, or maybe at the McDonald's, like on the corner. But this was not the case. This Sheena person was like, you're gonna make a left, then you're gonna go straight, then you're gonna make a right, and like wouldn't give an address.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And then Sheena told Gilles that, quote, the garage door will be open for you. It's like, okay, no front door? All right, that's fine. So when Gilles gets to this location, You know, it's a garage. Great. And it's kind of like partially raised and he can kind of like see inside the garage and it's pretty dark in there.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
It's like kind of a weird way to enter, but you know, this is what Sheena told me to do. So, okay. You know, when there's like a crack in the garage and you gotta get down low so you can get into the garage. You get it. So he does that and he gets into the garage. And then as soon as he gets into the garage, Gilles feels someone grab him from behind. Surprise, it was Mark.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Mark was inside wearing a hockey mask. As soon as Gilles gets inside, he attacks him with a stun baton as soon as he like steps in that garage. Now a stun baton is like, I guess way more intense than a stun gun based off of my quick little Google research. I could be wrong, but from what I Googled, it said the stun baton is like way more intense than the stun gun.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I don't know how he got his hands on one of these, but I guess maybe you could just go get one. I don't know what I'm talking about, but he stuns him. Okay. And then Mark pulls out a gun and then orders Gilles to get on the ground. He's like pointing the gun at him. He's like, get on the ground. Yeah. So when Gilles is on the ground, Marc then puts duct tape over Gilles' eyes. Mm-mm, oh yes.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Let's get into it, shall we? Let me tell you about this Mark guy. Okay, so Mark Twitchell. He was born on July 4th, 1979 in Edmonton, Canada. It was said from a young age, Mark was obsessed with movies, right? And he dreamed of making it big in the world of cinema.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Gilles told himself, like, I'd rather go my way than his way. And, you know, adrenaline is pumping. So he gets up, he rips the duct tape from his eyes. I know, I was like, ooh, ah, he rips that shit off. And then he grabs Marc's gun from his hand. And at this point, Gilles realizes that this gun was plastic. It was a plastic gun, which must be such a relief in that moment, I'm sure.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Well, adrenaline's going, but you know, you're like, oh, thank God this shit's plastic. Anywho, so I guess after this, like there's a violent struggle between the two of them. So they're fighting each other and Mark is like grabbing at him and Gilles was wearing like a jacket, kind of like I got like a zip on, you know?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So Mark was like holding onto his jacket and Gilles like kind of maneuvers out of it. Do you know what I'm saying? Like when you can kind of like snake your way out of the jacket, he snakes out the jacket. And then he rolls out from under the garage door, you know, getting ready to make a run for it.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
But he, like, he rolls out from under the garage, stands up, and I guess Mark is, like, right on his ass, grabs his legs and, like, is trying to, you know, drag him back into the garage. Run. Run. Luckily, Gilles, he is able to get that dirt bag, get off my feet and takes off running and hollering. Now at this point, Mark had like come outside of the garage. He's still wearing his mask.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Comes outside of the garage and he's like gonna start going after me.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
but he looks and across the street there was like this couple who was walking their dog and they're watching like this whole like weird situation go down and they're like this is like so weird you know you would stop and be like what the fuck is going on so mark actually sees the couple he's like oh shit you know and he's trying all of a sudden to act natural He's like, ha ha.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
I mean, I guess Mark wanted the couple to think like the two of them were friends and they were just playing around. So he's like trying to be loud and like, ha ha ha, my friend is so crazy. You know, wow. He's like, isn't that crazy? Like I'm wearing a mask, LOL. So after taking a few moments to make it look like, I don't know, that was his friend. He's just like, all right.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And then Mark goes back into the garage. Gilles was able to escape. Sadly, after the fact, Gilles wouldn't report like what happened to police because he was embarrassed, which is so sad. You hear about this, like men not wanting to report things because they feel embarrassed by it and stuff. And it's just like this... It's just sad.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
You know, he didn't feel like he had a safe space to like report this. Gilles would later say that like he tried convincing himself that the attack wasn't as serious as he was making it out to be. Or at least like he was trying to convince himself of that. It's just so sad. I felt so bad when I read that. Because at first you kind of want to be frustrated with him.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
So Mark went on a study at the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, and he participated in the school's radio and television arts program. After graduating college, Mark married this woman named Megan in 2001. Now there wasn't much said about this first marriage situation.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Like, why wouldn't you report that? Like, why wouldn't you report that? But I understand. And it's just sad. I hope men feel like it's safe to come forward. If you're a victim of an attack, catfish, anything like that, like you can come forward and you could speak out. Don't be embarrassed.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
And the couple that was walking their dog, they didn't report anything either because technically they just saw like a weird situation take place, but nothing, I guess that was worth reporting to police. You know what I mean? Like you see something weird and you're like, yeah, that's weird, but I'm not gonna call the cops weird. So noted, and that was about it. So then it's October of 2008.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
When a superfan goes too far for his "art" - The Wannabe Dexter Killer
Johnny Altinger is a 38 year old former oil field equipment manufacturer from British Columbia. So he too is looking for love. Hops onto plenty of fish and starts talking to people, you know? He matches with this nice lady. and they start talking to one another seem to hit it off messaging back and forth and they decide that they're going to meet up and they're going to meet on October 10th.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Hi friends, how are you today? My name is Bailey Sarian, and today is Monday, which means it's Murder, Mystery, and Makeup Monday. Today, I'm excited because we have an audio exclusive. Oh yes, this is just for the podcast. This is just for you. I just want to give a disclaimer that today's episode does involve children and infants and death and murder. Hi. I'm sorry.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She became a nurse attendant at the Bristol Lunatic Asylum in 1871. That was not to last, however. While her name is not listed, records show an attendant who was let go after, quote, being deemed overly aggressive, end quote, with a patient. There was an argument that escalated until said attendant wrestled with the patient, shoving them to the ground. Many believe it was Amelia.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Amelia was the only nurse attendant not listed as still being employed in 1872, so... If we do the math, we can assume she was the one let go for her aggressions. But not to worry, Amelia had plans outside of her nursing career. In 1872, Amelia, now 35 years old, she met and married her second husband, William Dyer. He was 27 years old and taking a page out of her previous husband's book.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So she was the youngest of five children, and she was born into like a pretty respectable working class family. She was the daughter of a master shoemaker. Hello. So, you know, she had things to live up to. When Amelia was around five years old, her mom contracted typhus fever, okay?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She lied about her age. Amelia said to be only 29 on her marriage license. I wonder if he knew that, but wonder what her skincare routine was. She lied on an official document so much, it's honestly hard to know what to believe. How old was she really? We don't know.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Anyway, once again married, Amelia was able to retrieve her daughter Ellen and bring her back to live with her and her new husband, William. Ellen returned and would live through her adulthood, apparently never suffering the same neglect Amelia made a habit of with her baby farms. Amelia and William would go on to have an additional two children together. One was a son named William Samuel,
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
and the other, a daughter named Mary Ann, nicknamed Polly. Later in life, Amelia would claim to have given birth 13 times, so it's thought she and William may have had and lost other children during this time. In 1877, William was laid off from his job at the sugar factory. Unfortunately, Amelia figured out a way of making up for the loss of income.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
You know what always surprises me in my true crime deep dives? How often life insurance comes up as a motive for murder. Oh, right, it's always a case. According to Murderpedia, there are over 600 people murdered every year because someone wants to collect life insurance on a person, right? I've personally always avoided dealing with life insurance because it's first of all, why do I need it?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
And second of all, why is it so expensive? I don't get it. Period. But I know it's important. It's important. You got to protect your family's future. And I feel confident I'll find the right insurance for me with the help of SelectQuote. SelectQuote is one of America's leading insurance brokers with nearly 40 years of experience.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
helping over 2 million customers find over $700 billion in coverage since 1985. SelectQuote can help you in as little as 15 minutes. You'll speak with a licensed insurance agent who can tailor a life insurance policy to your family's needs and also your budget. Head to selectquote.com and a licensed insurance agent will call you right away with the right policy for your life and your budget.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Selectquote. They shop, you save. So get the right life insurance for you for less at selectquote.com slash makeup. Go to selectquote.com slash makeup today to get started. Around this time in 1877, Amelia began working as a midwife out of her home. We know many of these details from Polly, Amelia's daughter, who would later testify during Amelia's trial. Yeah, there's a trial.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
And yes, we will get into it. Polly talked about how the sounds of a woman in labor were constant in childhood. Many of the children Amelia helped to deliver were declared as stillbirths and documented as such by coroners.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
According to Scotland Yard records from this period, it was thought that midwives knew how to make a baby's death appear to the world like a stillbirth, which would be pretty handy if you knew a lot of desperate women with nowhere to turn. After two years of Amelia's running her midwifery and baby farming business, a doctor finally reported Amelia to authorities.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So she gets this and she starts to experience hallucinations and other like mental health problems because of the typhus fever. She was going crazy, okay? And she ended up being admitted to a private asylum for treatment. And then eventually her mom, Amelia's mom, would return home. So just because her mom was home didn't mean things were better.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Too many babies and children had died under her care for it to make statistical sense. And it was catching up with her. When Amelia learned she was under investigation, she immediately tried to commit suicide. She did so by ingesting a large amount of opiates she had been using to keep the infants quiet. She didn't ingest enough, though, and survived the suicide attempt.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She was put on trial for the death of multiple children who had been under her care, but there was no proof that the deaths had occurred intentionally. Obviously, there had been massive neglect, with the judge even calling her establishment An infant's hell. But that same judge admitted that her incompetence could not be proven as an intentional criminal act.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
At the same time, it would have been unthinkable that a woman was purposely committing the mass murder of children. The jury returned a guilty verdict after only 20 minutes of deliberation. But because intent couldn't be proved, she was sentenced to only six months hard labor. While she was gone, her daughter Polly was told by her father that Amelia was sick and receiving treatment.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Amelia's first daughter, Ellen, who had been farmed out as a little girl, left town after her mother's trial. She became estranged from the family, which no one can blame her for. In 1880, Amelia was released from prison right on time. Not looking to return to forced labor anytime soon, she actually attempted to earn money through a series of legitimate jobs.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
These attempts included a return to nursing, dressmaking, and laundry services. None worked out. Amelia had begun abusing both alcohol and opium and was unable to hold down a job because of these habits. Not to mention, Amelia's trial was public and received enough attention for songs to be written about it. When she was released, her community was well aware of her past and treated her as such.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So the Dyer family decided that they should move from their small hamlet to the larger town of Bristol. Here, again, they attempted to make money legitimately, but by 1884, the family's laundry business failed, and Amelia went back to the only job she was able to hold down. Baby farming. Knowing the authorities were aware of her past, Amelia and her family moved often to avoid detection.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Her husband William didn't enjoy the nomadic lifestyle, and it had a large impact on their marriage. Yes, the moving was a stressor. But the baby murdering? By the early 1890s, William and Amelia separated. I guess Amelia had learned something from her previous conviction. First off, she would no longer report the deaths of the infants to the coroners.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
This meant there was no record of the number of children that were dying under her care. She was then free to kill the children by whatever method she liked and disposed of the bodies herself. She no longer worried about making their deaths seem like stillbirths. So she used varied methods of murder.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
This also helped avoid the crimes coming back to her since no pattern could be established, even if the bodies were found. Of course, in some cases, parents did return to Amelia, asking for their children back. Because these children were overwhelmingly likely to be dead, Amelia would simply take another child in her care. and give them to the parents.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Since most passed off their children as newborns, they were unable to recognize that the child wasn't theirs. Again, Amelia was able to avoid suspicion. But she remained on high alert. If she felt authorities were making any gains towards catching her, Amelia would simply check herself into the local asylum. she would claim she suffered from suicidal thoughts and receive treatment.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Once the heat from authorities died down, she would be released from the asylum, claiming to be mentally fit again. Eventually, William decided to forgive his baby-killing wife. and she moved back in with her family. The baby farming business continued to boom. By 1891, suspicions turned once again toward Amelia.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
There was permanent brain damage to Sarah's mind, you know? And so the hallucinations, they would continue and they caused periods of mania. Her speech was also altered and dysfunctional. And then in 1848, Amelia's mother passed away. You know the saying, when it rains, it pours.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Despite her many efforts to avoid suspicion, Amelia was faced with one mother who demanded her child back. Now, this mother had been a governess and had become pregnant after a relationship with one of the sons of the house she worked in. The governess gave her baby to Amelia with intentions to return. Amelia, of course, killed the baby and moved.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
After the governess ended up marrying the baby's father, her child became legitimate. So she returned with the hopes of collecting her child. but she couldn't find Amelia. Amelia had used a false name and had since moved, making it even more difficult for the mother to find her. The police eventually did find Amelia and questioned her about this specific child.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She was able to lie and buy herself time. Knowing they'd return, she tried to kill herself by slashing at her own throat. She also claimed to hear voices that both told her to commit suicide and threatened that her daughter Polly was trying to kill her. She even threw a knife at Polly, which stabbed her through the hand.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Amelia had not only spent time in an asylum herself, but had also worked in one and also witnessed her mother's mental illness firsthand. Because of all that, no one could say for sure whether she was actually experiencing hallucinations and dangerous delusions at this time, or if she was just particularly good at faking them.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She was also addicted to both alcohol and opiates, so even if they were real, the hallucinations could have been self-inflicted. Regardless, this well-timed mental breakdown sent Amelia back into the asylum. Only a few months later, she was once again considered to be recovered and was released. After only a week at home, Amelia was back to business.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She took in yet another child in order to have enough money to move her family again. The family moved. When they arrived at their new home, there was no baby in sight. Finally, in 1893, the former governess who was looking for her baby tracked Amelia down. Amelia quickly went out and bought opiates, enough to kill herself.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She ingested the opiates but once again survived and was admitted back into an asylum. I don't think she was really good at math. She keeps trying to kill herself and like not doing it. After being released from her latest vacation at the asylum, Amelia left her husband William permanently. By this time, Polly had married a man named Arthur, and Amelia left to live with them.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
They moved around often, but somehow still our persistent and impressive governess was able to find her once again, still demanding to know what happened to her child. The governess identified Amelia to police. She was not arrested and spent some months in a lunatic asylum. This one, at least, did seem to leave a lasting impact on her.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She wrote to Polly, claiming she had lost her soul while under care at the asylum. Or at least, what little of it she had left. This year I'm trying to be better when it comes to keeping track of my automatic payments. Ugh. They always sneak up on me. Listen, recently, you've noticed this.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
I know you have all the notifications coming in saying that all of the streaming services are raising their prices. And I'm like, excuse me, didn't we just do this like a month ago? Please. Bust out the DVDs, I say. I hate these surprise charges. They are overwhelming and I just... I need to take a deep breath sometimes. But thankfully, I got Rocket Money, so this should never happen again.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
And that seemed to be the case for Amelia because after her mom passed away, then her two younger sisters, they both passed away from an illness called I'm making an assumption here, but Amelia ended up leaving school at the age of 14, I'm assuming because she probably needed to help take care of the house and work, but I don't know for sure.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
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Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
While her mom was gone, Polly didn't just lay around. She had a family business to run. She and her husband took out ads themselves, farming babies without Amelia. Of all the children they took in, only one child would survive and continue moving with them from house to house. Soon, Amelia returned and was ready to get back to her dark work.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
But just as she did, newspapers in Bristol began to write stories about the many bodies of infants that were cropping up all over town. Police were once again circling her, and now her many neighbors began to take notice of Amelia's activities. They walked. They talked to police about their suspicions, noting the sheer numbers of babies and unwed mothers that came and went from her house.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
But Amelia, Polly, and Arthur kept moving, leaving police constantly one step behind. By 1896, Amelia had stopped letting babies waste away and just began strangling them instead. That year, a barmaid named Evelina Marmon... placed an ad in a local Bristol newspaper, hoping to find a family to adopt her illegitimate daughter, Doris.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Coincidentally, Evelina saw an advertisement next to hers for a married couple looking to adopt a child. The name on the ad was listed as Miss Harding. Unbeknownst to Evelina, this was one of the many pseudonyms used by Amelia Dyer. Evelina reached out to Ms. Harding and arranged care for her daughter.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She hoped to arrange a schedule of week-to-week payments, as it was her intention to go back to work. and earn enough money to then reclaim her child. Amelia didn't agree to these terms and convinced Evelina to pay her a lump sum for the care of her daughter. Miss Harding, aka Amelia, claimed to be a married woman with no children of her own.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She convinced Evelina that she was not interested in taking a child just for payment, but because she and her husband were fond of children and having one would improve their home. Evelina was heartbroken to be unable to care for her own daughter, but sent her daughter with a box of her clothes to live with Miss Harding.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
But she left school at the age of 14 and she started an apprenticeship as a corset maker. And then sadly, her father ends up passing away of bronchitis. So now she, well, her parents are dead. Some of her sisters are dead. I mean, what the hell is she supposed to do? So she ends up living at a lodging house.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Evelina received one letter stating that everything was going according to plan with her daughter and sent a response. She would never receive a reply. Amelia ends up taking the girl to the London home her daughter was staying in. There, she used white edging tape to strangle the baby. The tape was normally utilized in dressmaking, which was just one of the many legit careers Amelia had attempted.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Amelia tied it around baby Doris's throat, saying she liked to watch the babies with the tape around their necks. By the next day, after Doris was dead, the tape was removed and used to murder another child, Henry Simmons. Both bodies were put in a carpet bag, which was then thrown into the River Thames. The clothes that Doris's mother had lovingly sent with her were pawned off.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Just before the deaths of Doris and Henry, a fisherman found a different carpet bag in the River Thames. This one contained the body of yet another baby. Helena Frye. The girl's body was wrapped in brown paper, on which was the address for a Miss Thomas. This was yet another false name used by Amelia Dyer.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
The police, who by now were aware of Amelia, quickly connected the alias back to her and placed her home under surveillance. They used a young woman to arrange a meeting with Amelia. The woman claimed to want to use her services, and Amelia agreed. But instead of a young mother, the police arrived at the decided time of the appointment and quickly searched Amelia's home.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
In the house, police found a wild amount of evidence. Telegrams regarding adoption arrangements, pawn tickets for children's clothing, receipts for advertising, and letters from mothers checking in on their children. Apparently, of all the evidence, the worst was the smell. There was a stench of rotting flesh coming from the kitchen pantry and a trunk under Amelia's bed.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Confident they had discovered a baby farm, the police quickly dragged the river Thames, looking for more victims of Amelia Dyer. More bodies were discovered, including those of Doris and Henry. Evidence showed at least 20 children had been placed under Amelia's care in the last few months alone.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Police estimated that over the course of the decade she participated in baby farming, Amelia Dyer would have had access to somewhere in the realm of 400 infants and children. So while the only crimes officially linked to her belonged to the six bodies found in the river, this is why her actual victim count is considered to be in the hundreds.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Due to overwhelming evidence, Amelia was promptly arrested, along with Polly's husband, Arthur as an accessory. Amelia was quick to confess, stating, You'll know all mine by the tape around their necks. Like, oh, okay. This may have been a final effort to avoid at least some of the punishment she deserved, since for years she had used opiates to kill the infants in her care.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Maybe that was the only choice she had left once her asylum method would no longer work in her favor. Somehow, there was not enough evidence to charge Arthur or Polly as accomplices for the crimes. Amelia, however, gave a written confession, but only for the murder of Doris Marmon. She also did not implicate her daughter or son-in-law. Arthur was released while Amelia appeared at the Old Bailey.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
She tried to plead insanity, pointing out her numerous trips in and out of the asylum. While in custody, Amelia used a lot of religious rhetoric, prophesizing to other prisoners. and hoping she would be forgiven for her crimes by God. These hopes can be seen in the letter she wrote prior to her trial.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
And I know this might be dumb, but whatever, I'll be dumb because I was like, what's a lodging house? So I Googled it and I'm just, I'm here for you if you're like me. A lodging house is a Victorian-era term for a form of cheap accommodation in which the inhabitants are all lodged together in the same room or rooms, whether for eating or sleeping. You're welcome.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Her defense team tried to use her letters as evidence, but the prosecution pointed out she had done this act before, using her trips to the asylum to avoid detection when police were getting too close had become a hobby for her. Polly testified against her mother, detailing one of the murders.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
but also being sure to say both she and her husband didn't participate or even fully realized what had happened to the babies in Amelia's care. She claimed Amelia told them both the baby was sleeping and shooed them away when they tried to see for themselves. She also brought up her mother's delusions and confirmed her many, many, many, many trips to the asylum.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
The defense also cited her suicide attempts and difficult childhood, with her being witness to the horrible death of her mother as evidence that she was mentally unwell. In the end, the trial lasted only two days. The jury declared her guilty in five minutes, shattering the previous 20-minute record of her first trial.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
This time, her luck had finally run out, and instead of hard labor, she was sentenced to death. While waiting for her sentence to be enacted, Amelia wrote a last and true confession. as well as several poems. Only one poem survives, and it reads, By nature, Lord, I know with grief, I am a poor fallen leaf, shriveled and dry, near unto death, driven with sin, as well with a breath.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
But if by grace I am made new, washed in the blood of Jesus, too. Like to a lily I shall stand, spotless and pure at his right hand. It was signed Mother, because sometimes real life is a horror movie. Amelia Dyer was hanged on June 10, 1896. When prompted for her final words, she said, I have nothing to say. Apparently she thought the poem said it all.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
At the time of her death, Amelia was the oldest woman to be executed in over 50 years. In the wake of Amelia's crimes, the Children's Act was passed in the United Kingdom in 1908. It required legal registration for foster parents and allowed authorities to have additional powers to protect children in the foster system.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
This helped stop people from taking advantage of the system the way Amelia Dyer had. Let's not forget about Ellen, huh? After this law, it became significantly more difficult for a foster family to up and disappear after gaining charge of a child. Between 1917 and 1918, multiple societies were created to help ensure that children would only be adopted by respectable people in stable homes.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Even with these organizations, which attempted to ensure baby farming would become a thing of the past. It wasn't until 1926 that child adoption became a legally regulated act in the UK. Prior to that, adoptions were all informal and secretive, largely because of the shame that led to adoption being necessary in the first place. In the mid-1800s,
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
The government created laws that were intended to reduce the amount of children born outside of wedlock and therefore lessen the need for services like foster care or adoption. Instead, they managed to help encourage a business model that relied on the deaths of children.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Baby farming preyed on women when they were out of options and led to the death of more children than we'll ever be able to fully account for. Amelia Dyer was convicted of only a small fraction of the crimes she committed. But at least she was convicted at all.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So she is at this lodging house and this is where Amelia meets another boarder who was a tradesman just like her father and her brothers. This guy, his name was George Thomas. He was a 57 year old widower whose wife had just died, I guess like a few months earlier. Look, it's the 1800s. So, you know, 24 year old Amelia naturally marries this 57 year old guy named George.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Her mentor, Ellen Dane, managed to live the rest of her life in the United States and avoided being punished at all for her role in baby farming. All of the changes to the laws in the UK only started over 10 years after Amelia Dyer was hanged. But prior to her case, the general public couldn't imagine the mass murder of children. That's why she received such a light sentence early in life.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Because of this, she was able to continue her horrific crimes for decades to come. But the grisly details of her crimes helped bring to light the horrible practice of baby farming. And eventually... change the law in an effort to protect more children. And that, my friends, is the story about Amelia Dyer and baby farming, essentially.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Unfortunately, this is just one story in the grand scheme of many people who were baby farming at this time. She wasn't the only one. she was the one who got caught. And luckily she did because of that, all of these laws came from it. But you know, it's just so sad. It's weird because she cared so much for her own children.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
You just think she would have that natural mother instinct when it came to these other children. But maybe it doesn't work like that. I don't know. I don't have children, so I don't have that mother's instinct. But I would assume you would care for other children too, but I guess that's not the case. I am uneducated in that field, so I apologize there.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
I want to know what happened to Ellen Dane because you know she continued doing some shady shit. What a basic white name too. Because it's like if I google that and try and go down a rabbit hole to see what happened to Ellen Dane. Like do you know how many Ellen Danes there probably are? How am I going to find her? Because watch me.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Watch me go down a rabbit hole as soon as I'm done recording this. rabbit hole i'm making a note anyhow i would love to hear your thoughts would i though not really this story sad i mean a bunch of babies died who knows how many i was gonna say this one's kind of tricky because look at the end of the day i think we can all agree killing babies is not it Right? Okay, great.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
I'm glad we can decide that. But at this time, these women didn't have any options. If you got pregnant, you had to have these babies. And financially, you were so fucked. Like, what were you supposed to do? I'm not saying kill the baby, but you would just drop them off and probably never look back and just hope for the best, right? I don't know. Anyhow, it wasn't that fun, you guys.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Well, we laughed, we cried. I'm just kidding. That was awful. uh let me know of any murder mystery and makeup suggestions you may have but other than that i hope you have a good day you make good choices and you be safe out there and i'll be talking to you guys later goodbye
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
It was only five months after the death of his wife when George and Amelia got married. Which some people are like, it's a little quick. And then they actually lied on their marriage license saying that George was 48 years old and Amelia was 30. I guess, you know, back then, even back then in the 1800s, people would have thought that this was a little gross.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So listener discretion is advised. Today we're going to be talking about Amelia Dyer. Have you heard about her? Because I didn't. So let me tell you about her, okay? So she lived in the late 1800s, and if the estimates are accurate, she killed as many as 400 infants and children over the course of her life. Yes, you heard that number correctly, 400.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Then use our code MAKEUP at signup and you'll get your first visit for only $5. It's so worth it. So worth it. A big thank you to Apostrophe for sponsoring today's episode. Now let's get back to today's story. So one thing you should know is that back in the 1800s, there was a problem. Too many people were having babies outside of marriage, okay? They did not like this.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
In order to try and discourage people from having illegitimate children, the, quote, Poor Law Amendment Act was introduced in 1834. This law did a few things, but one of the biggest was to remove financial obligation from the fathers of illegitimate children. So it was pretty much saying that if a man was to father a child outside of wedlock,
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
he was not forced by the law to provide any financial support to said child. The idea being that if women were left without the option of financial support, they would be more likely to marry before having children. I know, this is like, that's fucked up. In reality, all this law did was make it easier for men to just up and disappear. They really didn't see that coming, I guess.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So yeah, they would just disappear, leaving the mother, you know, the mother of their child with very few options. You are so fucked if this happened, okay? Orphanages, they did exist, but they would only take in what they called, quote, respectable orphans, end quote, meaning the fathers of the children had to be officially documented as dead instead of just being out of the picture.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So these poor women would either starve to death themselves or choose to, quote, make an angel of their baby. So this legislation, which was supposed to lower the number of children born outside of wedlock actually caused a sharp increase in the rate of moms killing their babies. Okay. Listen, some, and like, look, some mothers would attempt to make it look like an accident by smothering the baby.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Again, these are estimates, but she was convicted of killing six. So it's between six to 400, the number's in there somewhere. And honestly, I think we can all agree that killing six alone is horrific in itself, right? Okay, thank you. I'm glad we agree. A lot of witnesses and neighbors at the time think that police only scratched the surface of what this woman did.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
They could. claim that they had accidentally rolled on top of the baby in their sleep. Other times the baby would be abandoned in public. These women, they did not have many choices. It's sad. It's just all around sad. I think we can agree on that. So with all of that being said, going back to Amelia. So remember Amelia and George, they got married and they're living their life.
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Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
And Amelia meets this woman named Ellen Dane. They all somehow are living together. Look, I'm not gonna get into it because I don't know. I couldn't figure it out. But just know that Amelia meets Ellen and Ellen really changes Amelia's life. Ellen introduces to Amelia something called baby farming. So baby farming, it sounds, I don't wanna know.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
When I first heard the word baby farming, I didn't wanna know. I was like, Bailey, Go no further. So with all these new unwanted babies out there, families are adopting or fostering these children when the mothers were unable to care for them. But at this time, it came with a catch. The mothers would pay for the care of their babies.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So like you would give your baby away, but then you'd be paying them. So this is what Ellen did. She would take in pregnant women and then like once they were beginning to show and then she would provide care for them throughout their pregnancy. This would allow the women to maintain secrecy in society and not become known as an unwed mother.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So you'd be hiding out for like nine months because you didn't want people to know that your ass was pregnant and not married. Wild times, huh? Anyway, so you'd be hiding out with like this Ellen chick. And then once the baby was born, the midwives would accept payment for the continued raising and care of the children. So there were arrangements you could make with midwives
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
these midwives like Ellen, where you could pay a large upfront fee or you can pay in installments. And a lot of the times, like with these installments, the family was agreeing to raise the child for a certain period of time. Like, okay, you're gonna have Susie for six months and then I'm gonna come back and like, I'm gonna...
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
take her back essentially, or something like that, or maybe five years, I don't know. But usually there was some kind of like set period of time that they would have the kid. This all started out with good faith, but soon people like Ellen realized how much money could be made, especially with those upfront fees. She's like, cha-ching.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
A lot of the time, if the mother was paying an upfront fee to these midwives, it usually meant that the mothers were not coming back Okay, so Ellen is like, okay, I can just take this lump sum and, you know, who's checking? Who's checking up on me and who's checking up on these kids?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Her plan was that she would simply collect the money the mother was offering and then neglect the infant or child until death. This way, all the money would go straight into her pocket and she, you know, not towards the baby. This is where the term baby farming comes from. People would start adopting babies for profit, farming them like crop of potatoes or something.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
And just like with a regular farm, the larger the crop, the more money you make. Unfortunately, these shady practices were able to thrive because mothers, like the original mothers, were not often willing to contact police or authorities. I mean, even if they knew their child was missing or dead. So Ellen would advertise her services in newspapers using a fake name.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So take a journey back with me to Victorian era England, a time when young women were vilified and the government did nothing to help them. Amelia Dyer, she was born in 1838 in the southwest of England in an area called Pye Marsh. I believe it's Pye Marsh, okay? But this was like, I don't know, a little small town, a mining district, one would say, but it was near Bristol.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
And then when the babies were in her care, she would continue collecting payment, but she would neglect the children by providing them little actual food, often cutting their milk with things like chalk.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Then, to keep the starving babies from crying, she would give them a helping of Godfrey's Cordial, which is this medicine, quote-unquote medicine, which was marketed as a way to calm babies during teething or if they were sick. But the ingredients were ginger, sugar, aniseed, licorice extract, and opium. A healthy dose. of opium. No wonder the baby stopped crying.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Of course, this product was intended to be used in small quantities, but that didn't stop Ellen from using Cordial to aid in slowly neglecting babies to death. Ellen continued these practices for years until she realized the authorities were beginning to figure out her murderous ways. When she felt like they were getting too close, she fled to America and avoided being prosecuted for her crimes.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
With Ellen in the wind, you'd hope the babies of Bristol would be safer. But unfortunately, before she fled, Ellen deigned. had already passed along the tricks of her trade to Amelia Dyer. A couple of years into her marriage to George, Amelia started studying to become a nurse at the Bristol Royal Infirmary. But in 1864, she was forced to quit working when she became pregnant.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
Her daughter, Ellen Thomas, was born in 1864. Yes, she named her daughter Ellen, maybe because it was a super popular name at the time, or maybe because... She was really influenced by that friend of hers who was a baby killer. The one we were just talking about. I'm not sure who can say. But Amelia's life took another turn for the worse when her husband George died in 1869.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
George died of diarrhea. That's what was listed on his death certificate. diarrhea. After this, Amelia was forced to quote unquote farm out her then five-year-old daughter Ellen, meaning she was going to have to give her baby away to one of the baby farms. Now with her daughter being taken care of elsewhere, Amelia decided to open her house to baby farming.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
So she farmed out her own daughter, and now she was being paid to neglect the children of people who were in the same situation as she was. It's both confusing and...
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
fucked up i'm not trying to justify her actions rather than like explain remember her husband died she's on her own she has to take care of herself and she learned from ellen how to make good money by doing this baby farming thing maybe she gave away her own daughter ellen because she didn't want to kill her own daughter so she was hoping her her daughter ellen would go on to have a better life but then she was in turn taking in other people's babies and then
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
Caregiver to Killer: Amelia Dyer & The Dark World of Baby Farming
killing them, so this woman is so backwards. Anyways, Amelia, she did learn from the best, Ellen, and she advertised her services under a fake name, She charged between 10 and 80 pounds for the care of a child, which is the equivalent of between $1,200 and $9,000 in today's money. Since she was neglecting these children, Amelia still had enough time in her schedule to return to work in nursing.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Then they realized it wasn't this guy. Police also suspected a disgruntled employee thinking that Fred's employee must've just like hated him or something and you know, killed him. The police went as far as tapping his phone to see if he would confess or something, but that was proven unsuccessful. Police didn't check the attic because why would they, you know?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So Dolly took her next steps carefully. She disposed of the murder weapons with the help of a new lover. Oh yes. Oh yes. She had a new lover. His name was Roy Klum. So he takes the murder weapons and he threw them into the La Brea tar pits. It's in Los Angeles. It's these big tar pits where like, if you throw something in there, it'll get sucked down and then you'll never see it again.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
It's very bizarre. So- Great place to hide a murder weapon, really. When questioned by police, Dolly, you know, she played the role of like the grieving widow. She was like, oh my God, it was just like so traumatizing. I just didn't know what to do. You know, and she was able to collect her husband's fortune. It was like millions of dollars and any, the property.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So with this new money, Dolly bought a new house with money. A spacious attic. I know, I was thinking, okay, once her husband was gone, wouldn't she just like allow Otto to like live in the house freely? No, he was still sent to live in the attic.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
so by this point the relationship between otto and dolly had evolved into an snm relationship dolly was the dom and otto was the sub very ahead of their time huh so they're into that and this is like their new arrangement and otto just continues his life in the shadows hidden away from the world and as Dolly's ghostly lover.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
I don't know if he's getting vitamin D, but things started to unravel when Dolly, in a fatal lapse of judgment, gave Fred's supposedly stolen watch to her lawyer, who is also now her new lover. His name was Herman Shapiro. So she gifted him Fred's watch that was stolen. So he grew suspicious because again, this watch, where'd it come from?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Dolly swore up and down that she had found the watch under the couch cushions. She's like, I swear it was in the couch cushions. That's crazy. But this was enough to raise some serious red flags. And then remember Dolly's other lover, Roy? So Roy came forward to the police about him disposing the guns in the tar pit.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Though most would come to know her, they would call her Dolly, okay? And thank God, because Valbuga was like, it's a hard one for me. So she goes by Dolly. She's born in Germany in 1880. And Dolly's family soon left for the promise of America, the idea of America, where they settled on a modest farm in the rural Midwest. So little Dolly grew up on a quiet farm where she learned early on
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
I guess Dolly tried to end things with Roy and you know, she was like ready to move on with her lawyer and this made him very upset. So he went straight to the police and told them what he knew. I know Dolly must've had some like beer flavored nipples, right? These men just were loving her.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So police, they end up going out to the tar pits and they were actually able to get the weapons out, but they were way too deteriorated to positively tell if they were the ones that had fired the bullets. But, Dolly's story was beginning to crack. The police, they had found out about the watch and they felt that they had enough evidence to arrest her.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Now, mind you, at this point, they didn't even know about the guy in the attic. So as time is going on and the case is unfolding, they learned about Otto, living in her attic. They learned about him because while she was incarcerated, she's in prison, you know? So while she's incarcerated, she asked her lawyer to bring food to her vagabond half-brother to the house.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
And that's when her lawyer, Shapiro, he found out about Otto living in the frickin' attic. Years in the attic. And at... the time he revealed himself as Dolly's longtime lover and self-described sex slave. So the lawyer's like, what the F did I, am I involved in right now? So in 1930, Otto, he confessed to the murder, but claimed that he was under Dolly's control. Fair.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
The press was having a field day and they described Otto as living in the attic in his car, cave-like home, calling him the Batman. It kind of makes sense though. So the trial concluded with Otto being found guilty of manslaughter, but he was released nine days later due to the statute of limitations. The statute of limitations at this time when this story happened was not what it is today.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So he was out really quick, okay? So he gets released. Otto, he finds a new wife. Her name's Matilda Klein. And he ended up like marrying her right after leaving Dolly. And honestly, like, I kind of think like, okay, he did kill someone, but that was fucked up. The whole situation, right? So... You know, I kind of don't, I don't know. I don't think he really should have been in prison that long.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
I don't know. But Dolly, she had faced her own trial in August of 1930. Now to be fair, they didn't really know what they were charging her with because they didn't have anything linking her to the crime. Nothing. They had nothing. Besides Otto's words of like, she made me do it. And that was about it. But Dolly, she stood on the witness stand. She was tearful. She was expressing regret.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
And then in the end, after three days of deliberations, the jury was deadlocked. The prosecution tried to get a retrial, but after much back and forth, the judge dismissed the charge on the grounds of insufficient evidence and Dolly was set free. Her charges were officially dropped in 1936. So. Fucked up, fucked up. Following the trials, Dolly and Otto, they went their separate ways for good.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Dolly ended up marrying another man, His name was like Ray Hedrick. So she became Dolly Hedrick. And Ray Hedrick was 15 years younger than Dolly and just one year older than Otto. So she had a thing for just like young men. Dolly ended up passing away in 1961 at the age of 80, completely scot-free. She got to keep that her Fred's money and everything. And she had a little sex slave.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Later on Otto, he ended up changing his name to Walter Klein because everyone knew him. Like it was all over the media and he was labeled the Batman. So he changed his name to like get away from that. He ended up passing away in 1948 at the age of 60 and is actually buried in Hollywood. Ah, yes, a man lived in an attic for 10 years, 10 years, consumed by love, lust, and loyalty.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
That life in the country could be unforgiving, isolated, and lonely. And perhaps in isolation, Dolly began dreaming of a different life. And you know, when I was reading this, you know what it reminded me of? Did you see the movie Pearl? You see Pearl? It was giving Pearl. Where Pearl's like, mama always told me I'm gonna be a real big star. You know? Did you see Pearl? Okay.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
A wife manipulated those around her, all to escape her, empty marriage, a husband died unaware that the secret of his death had been hidden in his own home for 10 years. Like what? In the end, Maybe Dolly's only true love was the power she held over those who thought they knew her. I think she just liked power, obviously. She was a dom.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
You know what was funny though, this is a side note, because I was reading some of the court stuff and they were saying in court, like a court reporter said that Dolly was like, they didn't say she was ugly, but they were like, she's nothing special. I don't know why she's getting all these men. It was really saucy and sassy.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So the scandal of Dolly continued throughout the years to inspire various adaptations. Including there was a movie in 1968 called The Bliss of Miss Blossom. There was another adaptation that came in 1995. It was like a made for TV movie called The Man in the Attic. great title. And then finally, there was a more recent film in 2018 called The Lover in the Attic, A True Story. The end.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Well, short and kind of sweet, huh? That, my friends, is the story of Dolly Osterreich. I hope I'm saying her last name correctly. I know it's kind of bare, but I found it very interesting because first of all, who keeps a lover in the attic? For 10 years. And like, do you even think Otto should have gotten like longer jail time? I don't think so.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
I mean, he killed someone, but like also he was young and like kept in a freaking attic away from people for a long time. Dolly for sure should have gotten prison time, but they couldn't link anything to her. So... Yeah. Talk about a psycho bitch. You know what I'm saying? Talk about a psycho. I hope you have a good rest of your day. You make good choices.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Do your skincare because we're getting old. Okay. And I'll be seeing you guys later. Goodbye.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
That's what it was giving me. In her early twenties, Dolly left the farm and found what she thought was an escape. A man named Fred Osterich. Fred was a wealthy, respected businessman. And he was also like the owner of a successful apron factory in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. So the two meet, they fell in love, they got married.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
on the surface it seemed like dolly had found her perfect match he was wealthy he was well connected he was kind of charming, I hear. It was like, he wasn't that charming, he was kind of charming. But life inside the ostrich home was a different story. Fred, Mr. Fred, he loved drinking whiskey, which made him pretty gruff and unpredictable. And also, I guess it left Dolly sexually unsatisfied.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
I mean, she had her own desires. So there were rumors going around town that hinted that Dolly kept like a line of lovers to escape the unhappiness that she felt within the home. I'm not judging, but rumor had it she had like a lot of lovers. Good for her, but you know. She's married, so. But in 1913, Dolly's life took a fateful turn. So it was a quiet day in 1913.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Dolly, home alone, asked Fred, on the phone, to send over one of his men to fix her sewing machine. It was broken and she needed some help with the repairs, you know? so that someone was Otto Sandhuber. And he was said to be a very like shy, lanky 17 year old with a soft spoken demeanor and downcast eyes. Now to most, Otto would be unremarkable, hardly noticeable. But Dolly saw him differently.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
When Otto arrived, he didn't just find a broken sewing machine. No, I think she would have done this for anyone who was going to show up. It just happened to be Otto, you know? But when she answered the door, she was wearing nothing but a silk robe and stockings. She's like, hello. So yeah, imagine young man, 17, face to face with like a wealthy woman in such a state. She's like, hello.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Are you here to fix my sewing machine? It's over here. I could show you where it's at. Dolly and Otto, they began an affair that grew more intense with like every passing week. At first they were like meeting in hotels away from the small town prying eyes, but soon their meetings just moved straight into the Osterich home while Fred was away. Like they just were over it.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
They were over trying to be sneaky. So the neighbors, of course, You know how bored housewives, they're watching. They notice a strange young man coming to the couple's home and Dolly, ever resourceful, spun a tale saying that Otto was her vagabond half-brother. So she's telling everyone this and she's realizing like over time, it became clear that simply deflecting attention would not be enough.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So Dolly decided to start a new plan. A odd, odd plan. She had Otto move into the attic and live in there. This was her plan. So they could be together. Yes. Oh, yes. You heard that right. Otto, the quiet 17-year-old lover, agreed to move into the Osterix Attic. As we grow up, we now have all these responsibilities, right? And that's okay. That's just part of the trade-off.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
We had to keep up with doctor's appointments, bills, do my hair, shower, sleep, plan for the future. What do you want to eat? So many, it's like so many questions every day. I'm like, can I just like not answer anything today? In my personal experience, I've learned that planning for the future is usually code for insurance.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
I know it's kind of like the last thing you want to think about, especially life insurance, because when someone says like, oh, life insurance, I'm like, well, what does it matter if I'm dead? Like, why do I need life insurance? Like I never, you know? Thankfully with SelectQuote, I know where to start.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
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Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
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Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
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Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Otto agreed to abandon all human contact except for having sex with Dolly. This is a real story. He agreed to this. It's not funny. It's just like, okay. And I was like, well, wouldn't people miss him? No, he didn't have any family. I guess he didn't really have any friends or anything. So like he personally didn't mind according to him. I mean, looking back, he's a child. He's only 17.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So, you know. Not great. Now the attic, like, okay, it wasn't like a guest room or like a proper living space. It was an attic. It was cramped. It was musty. There was just enough room for like a cot, a dim light, and a stack of books that Dolly brought him from the library. It was said that he especially loved reading nautical adventure books. Fun fact.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So during the day he would come down into Dolly's house. He would clean. He was like their housekeeper. Sometimes he would distill gin. And then of course he would engage in sexual relations with Dolly. So Otter later claimed that he loved Dolly as a boy loves his mother. Yeah. But like the relationship was far from motherly. I mean, they were having sex. Are you having sex with your mom?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
I hope not. By 1918, he became pretty much like a ghost in the attic. He was hidden from Fred, lurking above without Fred having any idea. When I was reading this story, I was like, is this true? Is this real? This, this, what? Yes. Yes. Now it was said that Fred did notice like some strange things happening within the home.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
There would be times when like he would hear footsteps when he's home alone. He's like, what is that? You know? He also noticed that his cigars were mysteriously vanishing. Once he thought he saw a man's face in the window and he's thinking to himself, like, am I going crazy? Am I drinking too much? He had no idea that his wife's lover was living literally just above him.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So in 1918, Fred's work took the family west to Los Angeles. So Dolly's like, that's fine. I don't mind going to Los Angeles, but there's one condition. This new house, wherever we live, has to have an attic. Fred didn't like question it. He's like, oh, okay. Yeah, sure. Like an attic. Sure. For your stuff or whatever. So he agreed, you know, and they found the place. They found a home on what was
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Hi friends, how are you today? My name is Bailey Sarian, and today is Monday, which means it's Murder, Mystery, and Makeup Monday. If you're new here, hi, my name is Bailey Sarian, and on Mondays, I sit down and I talk about a true crime story that's been heavy on my... and I do my makeup at the same time.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
858 North Andrews Boulevard in Silver Lake, Los Angeles. And fun fact, the house still stands today. It's now like 858 North Lafayette Park Place. The street name changed at some point, but the house is still there. So I looked it up on Zillow and I was like, Ooh, I wonder if they knew what happened in this house. So they move and guess who came along? Otto. Bizarre, bizarre.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So Otto, I guess, was sent ahead of everybody else. So he goes to Los Angeles and he already moves into the attic by the time that the Osterichs had moved into the house. So he's already all settled. So by this point, Otto was not just Dolly's lover, but also the housekeeper. And now he was...
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
considered he would even say this later he was considered like dolly's sex slave i know i was like what this poor guy but otto also thought of himself as dolly's protector literally watching over her from the attic willing to do anything to like keep her safe so after moving to los angeles the marriage between dolly and fred seemed to just Go to shit, okay?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Look, well, it was already bad, but I guess it got worse. Like Fred began drinking more and more, and then they would get into arguments all the time. And it was said that sometimes the arguments would become violent. So August 22nd, 1922, Dolly and Fred, I guess they were in another one of their heated arguments. And this like fight was fierce. Their voices, were rising in anger, filling the air.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Okay, not great. So hearing the commotion, Otto decided that he had to protect his lover and he had had enough. He had had enough of this fighting and this bickering and he needed to step in. So he hears a fighting going on. He creeps down from the attic. Oh yes. He creeps down from the attic. He's like silent as a shadow. And with him, he was carrying two 25 caliber pistols.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Now, without a word, Otto aimed and fired three shots into Fred's chest. So the sound of gunfire like shattered the house's silence and Fred fell dead. Dead before he hit the floor. Dead. Spring is springing. And without fail, I open my closet and I realize, hmm, I have sweaters, sweaters, long sleeve, and more sweaters. Maybe it's time I'd need a little refresh, huh?
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
I've been wearing the same stuff forever and it's fine. I don't like buying new clothes. I don't even like shopping. I know, unpopular opinion here. But look, I do need a little refresh. Thankfully, there's an easier way to get clothes that I kinda need with Stitch Fix. Stitch Fix is an online personal styling service that takes the stress out of shopping.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So today's story, listen, we delve into like one of the strangest, most twisted stories of the 20th century. A tale that begins on a quiet farm, winds through secret lovers and ends with a murder that will leave you questioning the very essence of love, loyalty, and obsession. So our story begins over a hundred years ago with a girl named Valbuga Corchel.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
You get a stylist who is assigned to learn your style and budget. And once they have all that information, get to work figuring out personalized pieces for you in just the right size. And they do all the shopping for you. The stylist feature is such a huge help because they really go out of their way to find pieces that not only look great, but feel good too. Like they'll feel great, good quality.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
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Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
Personal styling for everyone. Get started today at stitchfix.com slash makeup. That's stitchfix.com slash makeup. So I guess, allegedly, we don't know, I wasn't there, but allegedly Otto quickly told Dolly to get into the closet and locked her in the closet. And he was gonna stage the scene. Then he climbed back up to the attic, guns still in hand.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So when the police arrived, they found Dolly locked in the closet and Fred dead on the floor. So police, they suspected a robbery was the motive because Fred's gold watch, a very expensive gold watch was missing. It was taken by Otto, but it was missing. And Dolly was locked in the closet, which couldn't have been locked from the inside.
Murder, Mystery & Makeup
She kept her secret lover in the attic for 10 YEARS and no one knew?!
So they're like, oh, someone came in, stole some jewelry or whatever, and then locked her in there, shot him dead, whatever. Police end up arresting this guy named James Casey, who was found with a 25 caliber weapon, which was missing four rounds. the number of shots fired in the home. I'm not sure how they connected him to it, but they thought it was this guy for a while.