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Austin Mitchell

Appearances

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1008.512

Well, in the sense that being a boy or a girl. In the first case report, Peggy noted that FG, who was born female, quote, wished to be a boy from early on.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1336.755

The first case report on FG treated this note with significance. Peggy, still using female pronouns to refer to FG in the report, wrote, When she was 12, her mother found a suicidal note telling that she did not want to live any longer if she would enter puberty.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1408.123

In that first report, Peggy explained the events that led up to FG showing up at her office. He had been to see a prominent endocrinologist named Henrietta Delamar Vandewal. She specialized in kids with issues relating to puberty. Some of these kids had what's called precocious puberty, where it started too early, like seven or eight years old.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1430.598

And the treatment that Henrietta would give these kids was a monthly injection of a drug that would stop that from happening by blocking the release of the hormones that trigger puberty. A puberty blocker. And when she eventually stopped giving the drug to these kids, puberty would proceed as normal.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1583.235

Peggy's report was matter-of-fact in talking about the significance of this moment. She simply wrote that the case is the first we know of in which a young person struggling with their gender had been given this drug. The report doesn't note the unexpected way in which it had come about. With a doctor who hadn't even been working with trans kids...

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1608.308

Henrietta Delamar Vandewaal died in 2014, but her husband told us that he doesn't think she saw this as some revolutionary act. This was a drug she was already using with her other patients. She understood the side effects. She saw a kid who was really hurting. And after consulting her colleagues, she decided that this might help.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1632.608

He doesn't think that she had any idea, really, how transformational this would turn out to be. To use this drug in this whole new way with FG.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

167.517

I don't think so. No. I'm going to leave it out here. This is a story of how we got here.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1736.045

When he was 16, FG was referred to Peggy's office. He had been on blockers for several years, and during that time, he had remained certain about his desire to transition, to live as a boy. So the next step would be to go off the blockers and onto hormones, in his case, testosterone, a step that was only available because Peggy and Louis had lowered the age from 18 to 16.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

175.145

It's a story I've been reporting with my colleague Azeen Gureshi, a science and gender reporter, for nearly two years.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1763.095

But the report noted that his parents were, quote, not happy with the idea of sex reassignment. And that for FG, the prospect of being forced to resume female puberty was creating so much distress that ultimately his general practitioner sent his family to Peggy.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1797.091

Once he started seeing Peggy, he underwent several assessments. Peggy talked in her report about the results of his IQ test, his personality tests, a Rorschach test. She mentioned he went through several therapy sessions, and so did his family, and he also attended group therapy sessions with peers.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1817.245

When she concluded that there were no psychological issues that might interfere with his decision, she recommended he begin hormone treatment.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

184.554

And it's a story she's been reporting for much longer. And from the beginning, she's been telling me this is not just a story about politics. It's a story about medicine. About a new kind of treatment for a small group of kids. How it came to be. Who it was meant to help. How that was codified into a protocol that spread around the world.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1868.21

Yeah. For FG, the pain he was feeling was similar to what Peggy had seen with her adult patients. It wasn't just that he felt he was in the wrong body. It was also that the world saw him as something he felt he wasn't. Peggy noted this in her report. She said that the idea that people around him would see him as someone who used to be a girl but was now a boy was, quote, shameful.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1894.947

So rather than go through this transition in front of his classmates, FG decided to stay on the blockers an extra two years, meaning his body essentially remained frozen in his 13-year-old state until he was 18. Then, after high school, he took a year off to begin hormone treatments and go through male puberty as privately as he could.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1944.096

Even going to the clinic to get his hormone treatments was a stressful experience.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1959.251

After a year on testosterone, he was ready to start university as a man.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2065.776

Right then, one of FG's cats fell off a window ledge.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

213.652

and how, in the time since, the medicine and the politics have become impossibly entangled. From The New York Times, I'm Austin Mitchell. This is The Protocol with Azeen Qureshi. Part One. The Beginning. Okay, so where does this story start then in your mind?

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2319.403

So this is how it all started. With a kid who only ever wanted to wake up and have it be that he was born a boy, and to never have to explain himself to anyone. He wasn't the first kid to feel that way, but through some combination of his conviction, the place and time, and the doctors who took him seriously, he was the first kid to get this revolutionary medical intervention.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2352.06

FG was 24 years old when Peggy published her first case report on him. It was 11 years after he'd started blockers and six years after he'd begun hormones and had his first surgery. Peggy wrote that FG, quote, reported no gender dysphoria at all. He said that he had found the adjustment to the male role to be very easy and expressed no doubts on the adequacy of his masculine behavior.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2379.093

He never felt any regrets about his decision and had never contemplated to live as a girl again. In conclusion, Peggy said, for certain selected cases with a lifelong, consistent, and extreme gender identity disorder, delaying puberty may be a physical and psychological beneficial way to intervene.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2414.767

Because of FG, Peggy thought that more kids could benefit from what had clearly been a transformational treatment for him. And she thought that the benefits of puberty blockers were twofold. They could prevent young bodies from growing in an undesired direction.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2430.694

They also made it possible for kids to consider, without that stress, whether they wanted to go on to the next steps, which would be irreversible.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2446.069

But to give this treatment to more kids, Peggy felt they needed a process.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2460.595

She began to codify a protocol, what would come to be known as the Dutch Protocol.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2484.287

And the critical part of that protocol was a process for assessing the kids to figure out who should receive medical intervention. which kids would benefit from it and not come to regret it.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2537.202

In the early 2000s, Peggy moved her work to Amsterdam, to the biggest transgender medical program in the country. And she started to put together a team of mental health providers to assess and treat the kids coming into the clinic, including a psychiatrist named Analu De Vries. And what happened next would explain how this care that started almost by accident with this one kid

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2578.254

That's next time in part two. Special thanks for this episode to Emily Bazelon and Alex Bakker.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

331.013

And those professionals would be trying to kind of convince these people that they... Yeah, kind of talk them out of it.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

731.263

In 1990, a 16-year-old kid showed up at Peggy's office.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

74.361

It's only been about two decades since trans and gender nonconforming kids in the U.S. have been able to get medical treatment to transition. Now, the federal government is looking to end it. And the Supreme Court is expected to rule on the issue in the coming weeks.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

755.298

And what Peggy realized when she saw him would transform the field of youth gender medicine. He's now in his early 50s, and his role in the history of this care has been closely protected. But he did agree to tell us his story.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

778.171

And that's how we found ourselves on a quiet street in a European city we've agreed not to name. To meet with the first person ever given puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria. Dodging the dog, we stepped into a bright upper floor apartment.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

805.649

The walls were covered in bookshelves, the floor was covered in dog toys, and there were cats, too, somewhere, we'd been told.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

818.121

He brought out some coffee, some pastries, and gestured to us to sit at the dining room table.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

831.821

FG is not his real name. It's what he's called in some of the medical and historical literature about him. And it's what we've agreed to call him to protect his identity.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

897.288

FG asked that we protect many of the identifying details of his life today.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

907.554

But he was ready to talk about his experience with Peggy, which was documented in two foundational case reports that she authored. In one of them, she wrote that he had gone on to become some kind of doctor.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

0.776

Tonight, local and state investigations are underway at one of our region's premier hospital systems.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1020.486

A lot of people don't agree, right? And they, like, vehemently disagree. Like, what does it mean then to be harmed if you don't... You know, a thing that the parents say a lot is, so where are all the people who are upset? And... I just, I do wonder that.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1082.337

Do you agree with the folks that you're working with tomorrow on all this stuff? Like, do you feel like you're on the same page? with the attorney general and his team.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1109.992

Your lawyer has said at a presentation that is on YouTube that... I said stupid shit that the transgender movement poses an existential threat to our culture.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1134.349

I mean, there are some theoretical— You have an anarchist tattoo on your calf. Yes. Yes. But— You are a person of extremes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1153.625

I guess I would just be so curious. I know we've talked about all of this a lot, but I would be so curious what Tiger would say about... I think on some level you're focusing on one trans individual.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1168.274

No, I'm focusing on one trans individual who you go to sleep next to every night and who, you know, is going to take your kids to the bus stop tomorrow morning and, you know, like who has shaped your... And he had the right to make decisions as an adult.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1437.568

So you just don't believe that they will persist in their trans identity into adulthood? You know, I... Jamie, for the story, I found... Dozens of parents and kids. Sure. And the kids are in college now and studying psychology and have a girlfriend or a boyfriend or, you know, like they're, they're like, they're just, they're just living their lives.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1471.973

I'm just saying like, in terms of statistically this diagram that you have drawn with the kids that should not have been prescribed hormones and one that should have. I don't know that you know that that's the real proportion.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1507.574

We should probably give you some space. Just, there are so many people that are going to feel so hurt tomorrow.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1630.606

Uh-oh. Thank you for letting me sit here.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1646.232

Well, tomorrow will be the real one.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1685.731

So are you going to be able to bring that inside?

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1696.201

Right, so that's why I wonder if they're going to even let our phones in.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

1710.205

Let's see what they say for now.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

2359.083

So GLAAD parked a truck outside of the New York Times building that says, Dear New York Times, stop questioning trans people's right to exist and access to medical care.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

331.987

It is this like historic thing for someone who was actually working inside a clinic in this state to be coming out against it.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

346.62

You know, and I think a lot of people don't know what to make of it.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

382.049

I want to make sure everything is tied up and, you know, rock solid before we publish. And so this afternoon you were on calls on it. Yeah. What were you doing? So this afternoon I was checking in with sources.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

556.323

I was just talking to parents this weekend who were like, the collateral damage she's caused by coming out with her allegations, like she just is, you know, unimaginable.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

615.107

I also do wonder if some of the parents are going to be there tomorrow.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

623.752

They're going to feel heartbroken.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

711.147

Are you nervous for tomorrow?

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

729.756

And I didn't even realize that might be a... I've definitely heard from parents, Jamie, who are like, you know, feel like their kids are collateral damage in your war path to take down gender-affirming care and... Missouri and America, frankly.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

791.026

But also, like, what if their kids are happy and doing well?

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

822.745

I guess for Austin, who has not met you before, like you five years ago would be shocked, right, to hear what you're saying now. You clearly thought you were doing the right thing.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

916.893

But, Jamie, like, the clinicians who have been raising alarms about the rising numbers, the lack of assessment, all of that, still believe that there are kids who benefit from these treatments, and they believe that because they've seen it with their own eyes. And... Talking about Laura Edwards-Leeper, for example. Dr. Anderson.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

946.59

Laura Edwards-Leeper does not say that she supports bans on gender-affirming care. Correct. And so that's kind of where you diverge.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

957.561

And where she – it's not fair to focus on her. There was that whole letter that – you know, all the medical providers in the U.S. who said we disagree about a lot of things. Yes.

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

973.494

Here's what we agree on. We agree on these bans are bad because it's legislative interference in medical care. And I just I'm bringing it up because like we're on the

The Protocol

The Whistleblower

990.129

And you're like diving like straight into it. I mean, you're already in it, but you're, this feels different.

The Protocol

The American Approach

1018.492

But then I think what was even more shocking was the reaction from the audience, which was a standing ovation for the person who was commenting about assessment so negatively. People just were suddenly seeming to feel like it needed to be like child led entirely and that there could never be complicating factors that needed to be looked at.

The Protocol

The American Approach

1043.918

That it can never be because someone experienced a traumatic experience. Or they're just fed up with what's expected for them as an assigned female. And so they wanted to escape that. That the gender piece was always just in and of itself a separate thing that we needed to treat as quickly as possible. Whereas that's never been the way I've seen it.

The Protocol

The American Approach

134.414

Yes, I do. I mean, and I actually was thinking about this the other day, how... they were so generous. You know, they took me under their wing. They taught me the ropes and then trusted me, you know, trusted me to bring this to our country and try to make it work. And there is a part of me that, that definitely feels like I've let them down in some way. It's weird.

The Protocol

The American Approach

162.164

I mean, cause obviously I know I'm not, I can't be that responsible. I'm not responsible for all of this, you know, going wrong, but, um, I think that they know, I hope that they know, how hard I've tried to keep things on the right track.

The Protocol

The American Approach

1933.496

That was one of the most difficult experiences I've ever had in the field.

The Protocol

The American Approach

1945.361

When I started to see the field shift, the nightmare that I had was, if things continue to move in this direction that I'm sensing they're moving, where assessment's no longer going to be really valued— Young people are going to move more quickly through this process to medicalization. More of them are coming in. The cases are more complex.

The Protocol

The American Approach

1967.595

At the same time the cases are more complex, we're cutting corners. What's going to happen? Well, probably there's going to be more people who realize it was the wrong decision. And then what's going to happen? Well, probably it's going to result in backlash for after all of these years of work that we have tried to move the society forward with accepting trans people.

The Protocol

The American Approach

1991.055

people are going to start to question it and question, is this even something we should be doing at all, especially with youth? And so I started talking about that. I would tell my students, you know, I probably sounded like a broken record, but I just had this gut feeling that if things did not slow down quickly, we were going to have a nightmare on our hands.

The Protocol

The American Approach

2.312

When you went, how long were you in Amsterdam and what did you see while you were there? I was only there for about a week. So it wasn't like a tremendous amount of time. But I sat in with Analu doing several assessments, like psychiatric assessments. And I sat in with the team, you know, while they discussed cases because they would thoroughly discuss every single case before they did anything.

The Protocol

The American Approach

201.641

I got my first job at Boston Children's Hospital, actually in the primary care center there. And while I was working in primary care, the gender program was getting started. And so I saw an email saying that they needed a very part-time psychologist and responded immediately.

The Protocol

The American Approach

2014.274

It was because of this that I agreed to be interviewed by Jesse for the Atlantic piece because I couldn't sleep at night. I

The Protocol

The American Approach

2088.331

Then the Washington Post piece was the other huge event, I guess, in terms of me speaking out.

The Protocol

The American Approach

2199.053

I told my husband and my friends, this is it. Like, okay, it's going to be somebody else's turn to step up to the plate. But it just hasn't happened.

The Protocol

The American Approach

2214.158

And I guess my perspective is that if I were a parent going through this and no one was talking about it, I would be livid. I would be absolutely livid.

The Protocol

The American Approach

2235.395

Right. Yeah. If my child was going through this and... I mean, and then to find out that the providers were being told not to speak about it also. I mean, I would feel like, what the hell is going on here? Like, that is very suspicious. Like, I would be, you know, questioning everything.

The Protocol

The American Approach

2253.775

So I just feel like in order to be transparent with the public and with families going through this, we have to be talking about it. And we have to be coming up with a solution to move forward in a better direction. Like, we need to be problem solving.

The Protocol

The American Approach

229.827

I've been always very interested in gender development. And specifically, I was really interested in adolescent girls.

The Protocol

The American Approach

2319.344

op-ed that Erica and I wrote, I mean, we spent, like, I think six months on that. Largely, I would say, because we kind of vacillated back and forth about whether We should do it for that very reason. Like we were worried that it would be used in ways that we didn't want it to be used. And we kind of knew it would be to some extent.

The Protocol

The American Approach

2343.267

And so we knew that that was going to be something we were going to have to deal with. Good will hopefully come out of it, but there could be some bad that comes out of it too. And it is very unfortunate that it's been used in ways that we did not want it to be used to support the bands. I'm not in favor of the bands. I really...

The Protocol

The American Approach

2361.378

strongly feel like this should be a decision that is made by the family, parents too, when we're talking about minors, and the health care providers who are involved. This should not be something that is dictated by, you know, the government. That's crazy.

The Protocol

The American Approach

241.031

Because that was not talked about at that time. That wasn't an area of focus.

The Protocol

The American Approach

262.278

We just need to take away all of the boys' toys and encourage them, you know, to do the girl things, and then they'll be fine being a girl.

The Protocol

The American Approach

28.09

And the team was,

The Protocol

The American Approach

294.134

Their assessment process, they did kind of over the course of a year or more, I think.

The Protocol

The American Approach

307.415

People were going to be coming from all over the country, so obviously they weren't going to be able to meet with me, you know, for therapy, you know, over every week.

The Protocol

The American Approach

322.799

And so basically what I created was a structured clinical interview.

The Protocol

The American Approach

338.624

Lots of questions about gender identity development, what's going on in the family, significant events in the kid's life. You know, of course, asking about like abuse and trauma and all of that kind of stuff was an important piece. And then in addition to the clinical interview,

The Protocol

The American Approach

356.684

Then I've used these various psychological measures or questionnaires that ask questions about mental health as well as gender related things. And then I would do a feedback session where I would verbally go over all of the results and information. And so, yeah.

The Protocol

The American Approach

387.09

Yeah. So, I mean, basically what it ended up looking like was, I think I did like one to two assessments a month. Oh, wow. So there were that few patients that... Yeah. Yeah. But what occurred to me after one or two of those assessments was that

The Protocol

The American Approach

406.468

It was just me making the decision, someone who was very new to this field, and only one person, where the Dutch had at least two people weighing in over the course of a year. So I felt very overwhelmed by the responsibility that was on me to... You know, be a gatekeeper, because really, I was expected to be a gatekeeper at that point. You know, these days, we never say that.

The Protocol

The American Approach

41.23

You know, I was just sitting there like, you know, wide-eyed, like, okay, trying to soak it all in as much as I could.

The Protocol

The American Approach

432.791

And, you know, I don't really think of it that way. But at the time, I was absolutely expected to be a gatekeeper.

The Protocol

The American Approach

440.197

Yeah, exactly. And so I guess I was nervous about that. You know, just being responsible for making a decision that would lead to a person, you know, a young person changing their body permanently. I mean, that just seemed like a really huge responsibility.

The Protocol

The American Approach

464.32

We were going to require the young person to be in therapy with someone who was going to work with them longer term.

The Protocol

The American Approach

480.995

We wanted them to be with somebody, like established relationship with a therapist, long enough that the therapist could weigh in. Right, and know that. And also so that therapists could stay with them through the course of, like, if they did start hormones and they would have someone to support them.

The Protocol

The American Approach

498.385

The problem, though, for the first several years was getting those mental health people to agree to be a part of it because no one knew anything about this work. And so...

The Protocol

The American Approach

511.289

You know, I spent time, you know, sort of being a cheerleader on the phone with people around the mental health people around the country and telling them, like, what kinds of things to do to provide support and how to, you know, ask questions to just engage in therapy with the kid and basically just help alleviate the therapist's anxiety around being involved.

The Protocol

The American Approach

533.516

You know, I felt like I didn't know a whole lot, but they knew even less. But it did feel good just to know that there was at least another mental health person who was weighing in. And I felt like I was more closely following the Dutch.

The Protocol

The American Approach

57.585

The Dutch were very, very strict with who they allowed to start hormones. And so I remember talking to Ana Lu after some of the assessments that I sat in on and asking, you know, why she wasn't like approving hormones for this kid, where from what I could tell, the mental health issues were really directly tied to the gender dysphoria. And it seemed like that would really help.

The Protocol

The American Approach

570.353

You know, it's funny. I was trying to find some of my old notes, and I couldn't find anything other than, like, my personal journal, where I unfortunately did not write a whole lot about what I was doing work-wise. It was more just, like, my life at that time and being over in Europe by myself for a while. Yeah.

The Protocol

The American Approach

593.416

But it was reminding me that, as I read that, that I had no clue how huge this was going to be. Absolutely no clue.

The Protocol

The American Approach

613.78

It was pretty rare that I said no. I mean, at the beginning, when the cases were straightforward, just the fact that the young person was surviving in the world as a trans person when everything was going against them, but yet They couldn't live any other way. Like, their dysphoria was so severe that once we treated them medically, their mental health did improve drastically.

The Protocol

The American Approach

643.457

And I remember giving talks about how many kids were able to stop taking their psych meds after they started transitioning because it really— You know, it was clearly tied to that. So when I saw how incredibly helpful it was to so many of these kids, it really confirmed for me that it was the right intervention.

The Protocol

The American Approach

674.985

And then it just kept growing.

The Protocol

The American Approach

680.88

There was just a growing need to train psychologists and other mental health providers on the assessment especially, but meant just the therapy too.

The Protocol

The American Approach

693.768

I felt like I was starting to make a dent in getting my field up to speed.

The Protocol

The American Approach

718.385

And it was just filling up like crazy.

The Protocol

The American Approach

741.298

I think, you know, in terms of the time frame, you know, people often ask, well, why did the numbers increase at that point? And the most common response you get from a lot of people is, well, it was talked about more, and so the acceptance, right, and so people felt more comfortable coming out.

The Protocol

The American Approach

774.84

Which I think absolutely explains part of it, but... There is no way that explains all of it. Absolutely no way from my perspective that that explains all of it. I think the internet is a huge piece of it because when I started this work, none of these kids were, there was no social media.

The Protocol

The American Approach

78.673

But they, you know, were just following a very, very strict protocol. And that's really, that's what helped me... figure out what to do back in the U.S., like when I came back to Boston.

The Protocol

The American Approach

800.469

And so I think that's been a huge thing that has shifted, that has led to an increased number of young people questioning their gender and sometimes getting answers much sooner than they would have otherwise.

The Protocol

The American Approach

845.058

Aside from that, you know, the big things were the later onset of gender dysphoria with no childhood, you know, gender confusion.

The Protocol

The American Approach

862.547

And... Much, much more complex mental health presentations.

The Protocol

The American Approach

915.571

To follow the kid's lead and to be supportive and to affirm and to help get the parents on board.

The Protocol

The American Approach

934.46

Meaning to just listen to the kid and help them. explain to the parents what the kid is saying, and then help facilitate the connection with a medical clinic.

The Protocol

The American Approach

952.818

It was an annual conference that I'd gone there every year.

The Protocol

The American Approach

964.915

Part of what I was asked to talk about was like the assessment process and what it entailed and why it was important. And it turned into this very tense conversation about... assessment being like this hurdle that people were being made to jump through. And one of the other panelists, you know, just felt very strongly that it was completely unnecessary.

The Protocol

The American Approach

99.284

Right. Yeah, I absolutely could not replicate it because, first of all, they had a lot of mental health people, you know, and one endocrinologist, you know, it was like just very, very heavy mental health component. And I was one person with like four hours a week devoted to this. Like, so, you know, there was no possible way that I was going to be able to. Yeah. Yeah.

The Protocol

The American Approach

995.117

And she even said, you know, re-traumatizing to people to have to tell their story a second time or if they'd already told it, you know, when they came out to their parents. And And that alone was shocking that, you know, that there was this opinion, perspective that the mental health role was causing trauma to the patients that we were trying to help.

The Protocol

The Gender Kids

281.1

All right. Thank you very much.

The Protocol

The Beginning

123.649

Trans kids are under attack. What do we do? We are not going to rest until every child is protected, until trans ideology is entirely erased from the earth. We are trans people. We are trans humans. And we will never be eradicated.

The Protocol

The Beginning

76.865

If the treatment's barred, some kids will suffer because they can't access the treatment. If the treatment is allowed, some kids will suffer who get the treatment and later wish they hadn't. And then the question becomes, how does the court choose which group?