Arthur Aron

Well, I think boredom has a big effect. If everything's going fine, fine, you know, we'll just stay together and enjoy raising our children or enjoy having our house together, you know, supporting each other. But we've shown that over time, if you're bored, you're less likely to, you know, to feel love or feel even closeness, as much closeness to your partner.

Well, I think boredom has a big effect. If everything's going fine, fine, you know, we'll just stay together and enjoy raising our children or enjoy having our house together, you know, supporting each other. But we've shown that over time, if you're bored, you're less likely to, you know, to feel love or feel even closeness, as much closeness to your partner.

Well, they weren't interviewed in person. They did a questionnaire early on where they answered a bunch of different questions, three or four of which had to do with boredom. And then we gave them a questionnaire, I don't know, five years later, eight years later or something. that focused on closeness using our standard measure of closeness.

Well, they weren't interviewed in person. They did a questionnaire early on where they answered a bunch of different questions, three or four of which had to do with boredom. And then we gave them a questionnaire, I don't know, five years later, eight years later or something. that focused on closeness using our standard measure of closeness.

And those who had been more bored eight years earlier were likely to now to have less satisfaction.

And those who had been more bored eight years earlier were likely to now to have less satisfaction.

Well, I think especially in our culture and in most modern cultures, you hope for more in a relationship. So if you're feeling bored, you're not getting everything you'd like from it.

Well, I think especially in our culture and in most modern cultures, you hope for more in a relationship. So if you're feeling bored, you're not getting everything you'd like from it.

Well, we've shown that there's a whole bunch of evolutionary work. One main evolutionary thing is survival. The other is growth, change, expansion, what we call expansion. You want to increase who you are, to increase your resources, increase your knowledge. And the other thing we've shown in our research is that when you form a relationship, the other becomes part of who you are.

Well, we've shown that there's a whole bunch of evolutionary work. One main evolutionary thing is survival. The other is growth, change, expansion, what we call expansion. You want to increase who you are, to increase your resources, increase your knowledge. And the other thing we've shown in our research is that when you form a relationship, the other becomes part of who you are.

Relationships are a major way that you can expand rapidly. So when you get close to someone, you include them in the self. And that means that you grow because you've included their resources, their knowledge, their experiences. So you grow. And when that happens at the beginning, it's a rapid expansion of the self. And it's very rewarding.

Relationships are a major way that you can expand rapidly. So when you get close to someone, you include them in the self. And that means that you grow because you've included their resources, their knowledge, their experiences. So you grow. And when that happens at the beginning, it's a rapid expansion of the self. And it's very rewarding.

Over time, it's not that exciting anymore because it's not new expansion.

Over time, it's not that exciting anymore because it's not new expansion.

Well, yes, but they also become part of us. So their abilities and their resources, we actually mix up with our own. We've done a lot of research showing that we mix up memories, we mix up who has what qualities, all sorts of stuff. I sometimes think I know things my partner knows that I don't, or that sort of thing.

Well, yes, but they also become part of us. So their abilities and their resources, we actually mix up with our own. We've done a lot of research showing that we mix up memories, we mix up who has what qualities, all sorts of stuff. I sometimes think I know things my partner knows that I don't, or that sort of thing.

So you feel you know more than you did, you feel you have more resources than you did, all sorts of things.

So you feel you know more than you did, you feel you have more resources than you did, all sorts of things.

Well, I think you want to be able to do more, to get more, to acquire more. It's just normal and natural and to explore and find new things that make life better. And so we're wired to have that, this idea of growth and, you know, wanting to know more, explore, all of that, seeking more. growth and expansion and creativity.

Well, I think you want to be able to do more, to get more, to acquire more. It's just normal and natural and to explore and find new things that make life better. And so we're wired to have that, this idea of growth and, you know, wanting to know more, explore, all of that, seeking more. growth and expansion and creativity.

All of that is a long-term understanding and evolutionary psych, and it's well-documented.

All of that is a long-term understanding and evolutionary psych, and it's well-documented.

Yes. If we have a partner who's got resources, that's kind of a plus. A partner who is socially valuable is a kind of a plus. A partner who knows a bunch of things is a kind of a plus. It's making us more than we were before. It's giving us more opportunities to do things we couldn't do before. It's not just money and resources. It's creativity.

Yes. If we have a partner who's got resources, that's kind of a plus. A partner who is socially valuable is a kind of a plus. A partner who knows a bunch of things is a kind of a plus. It's making us more than we were before. It's giving us more opportunities to do things we couldn't do before. It's not just money and resources. It's creativity.

It's opportunities to be able to do things, to feel things more broadly. All of those things we desire as individuals, we can get through a partner in some ways much more easily.

It's opportunities to be able to do things, to feel things more broadly. All of those things we desire as individuals, we can get through a partner in some ways much more easily.

Mostly people think that similarity matters hugely. It doesn't matter that much. And in fact, overall, we do like to have differences. And we've shown that in the study, that if you think the other person has different interests than you do, and they're not competing with you, that's a plus.

Mostly people think that similarity matters hugely. It doesn't matter that much. And in fact, overall, we do like to have differences. And we've shown that in the study, that if you think the other person has different interests than you do, and they're not competing with you, that's a plus.

So if you're interested in the arts and they're interested in science, you're going to each gain from each other.

So if you're interested in the arts and they're interested in science, you're going to each gain from each other.

Yes, we want to feel, we like to feel that sense of I'm going to be more now being with them. I'm going to have a fuller life. I'm going to have more opportunities, more knowledge, more interests, more ways to make life enjoyable and interesting. All of that stuff.

Yes, we want to feel, we like to feel that sense of I'm going to be more now being with them. I'm going to have a fuller life. I'm going to have more opportunities, more knowledge, more interests, more ways to make life enjoyable and interesting. All of that stuff.

Well, yes. I mean, the other person, you've already expanded by including them. I mean, if you were to break up with them, you would lose that. We've shown it's hard to break up a relationship if you have a lot of sense of expansion, including them in the self. So, no, the process of getting there is exciting. But once you're there, you get used to it.

Well, yes. I mean, the other person, you've already expanded by including them. I mean, if you were to break up with them, you would lose that. We've shown it's hard to break up a relationship if you have a lot of sense of expansion, including them in the self. So, no, the process of getting there is exciting. But once you're there, you get used to it.

You wouldn't want to lose it, but you get used to it. Now, if you or your partner, if you do something exciting together, you associate that with the partner. If you have some expansion together, or if your partner has an expansion that you can feel connected to, even as an individual, that can be expanding to the self.

You wouldn't want to lose it, but you get used to it. Now, if you or your partner, if you do something exciting together, you associate that with the partner. If you have some expansion together, or if your partner has an expansion that you can feel connected to, even as an individual, that can be expanding to the self.

There was a student in the class who I had a lot of sort of conflict with. The last day of class, we walked out. We looked at each other. I can still remember this so vividly. We looked at each other a minute and we kissed. And from that moment on, we've been living together. We just celebrated our 50th anniversary. It was so intense. And in fact, it's really what prompted my studying love.

There was a student in the class who I had a lot of sort of conflict with. The last day of class, we walked out. We looked at each other. I can still remember this so vividly. We looked at each other a minute and we kissed. And from that moment on, we've been living together. We just celebrated our 50th anniversary. It was so intense. And in fact, it's really what prompted my studying love.

I was a graduate student in social psychology and the idea then was to look for a topic that people think can't be studied scientifically and do it. And there was very little research on love at that time. So that became, you know, what I decided to study, but no, I fell intensely in love with this woman.

I was a graduate student in social psychology and the idea then was to look for a topic that people think can't be studied scientifically and do it. And there was very little research on love at that time. So that became, you know, what I decided to study, but no, I fell intensely in love with this woman.

It was wonderful. About two months later, we started living together. It was very intense and wonderful. We made a big decision a couple years later to have a baby. We didn't want to get married because, you know, coming from Berkeley in those years, we didn't like the idea. But when our son was four years old, he came home and said, Mommy, what's a bastard? And we thought we'd better get married.

It was wonderful. About two months later, we started living together. It was very intense and wonderful. We made a big decision a couple years later to have a baby. We didn't want to get married because, you know, coming from Berkeley in those years, we didn't like the idea. But when our son was four years old, he came home and said, Mommy, what's a bastard? And we thought we'd better get married.

So we've been living together actually 57 years, but we've been married for 50.

So we've been living together actually 57 years, but we've been married for 50.

One is that each would answer the question and then the other would answer and they'd go on. So they could hear each other and have a chance to be responsive. Another element was the questions were designed so that they'd move from not being very intimate or close to being more and more intimate stuff.

One is that each would answer the question and then the other would answer and they'd go on. So they could hear each other and have a chance to be responsive. Another element was the questions were designed so that they'd move from not being very intimate or close to being more and more intimate stuff.

you know if you get on a plane and you talk about your you sit down with someone you start talking about the most intense things in your life you can put them off so if you start with you know smaller things and then gradually move to bigger and you go both ways so it's just so the first set is fairly mundane you know if you go out to dinner with anyone in the world throughout history who would you go out to dinner you know and then they get more and more personal

you know if you get on a plane and you talk about your you sit down with someone you start talking about the most intense things in your life you can put them off so if you start with you know smaller things and then gradually move to bigger and you go both ways so it's just so the first set is fairly mundane you know if you go out to dinner with anyone in the world throughout history who would you go out to dinner you know and then they get more and more personal

One of the things that makes people want to get close is to feel they have things in common. Actually having them isn't as important as feeling they do. In the second set, I think we have an item that say, name some things you've noticed you have in common. We never say name some things you don't have in common.

One of the things that makes people want to get close is to feel they have things in common. Actually having them isn't as important as feeling they do. In the second set, I think we have an item that say, name some things you've noticed you have in common. We never say name some things you don't have in common.

Yeah, and even those get a little stronger as you move ahead, but yes, within the first 12.

Yeah, and even those get a little stronger as you move ahead, but yes, within the first 12.

Yeah, that's right. That's the idea. We want to create closeness in 45 minutes.

Yeah, that's right. That's the idea. We want to create closeness in 45 minutes.

Well, they get closer. This closeness procedure in 45 minutes really works. It doesn't necessarily keep them close in the long term, but certainly right afterwards, they often report feeling as close to the person they were doing the activity with as to the closest person in their life. It really creates a sense of intense closeness.

Well, they get closer. This closeness procedure in 45 minutes really works. It doesn't necessarily keep them close in the long term, but certainly right afterwards, they often report feeling as close to the person they were doing the activity with as to the closest person in their life. It really creates a sense of intense closeness.

Self-disclosure provides an opportunity for deep responsiveness. You know, when you interact with someone and, you know, you say something and you feel they've heard you, they understand you, they care about you, that matters a lot.

Self-disclosure provides an opportunity for deep responsiveness. You know, when you interact with someone and, you know, you say something and you feel they've heard you, they understand you, they care about you, that matters a lot.

That's a huge effect. Feeling someone likes you, it really matters for getting close to them. In fact, it's a major factor that we found in falling in love. You know, we've done a lot of surveys where we ask people who've recently fallen in love what happened. And a major thing is I discover the other person liked me.

That's a huge effect. Feeling someone likes you, it really matters for getting close to them. In fact, it's a major factor that we found in falling in love. You know, we've done a lot of surveys where we ask people who've recently fallen in love what happened. And a major thing is I discover the other person liked me.

So, for example, a person is saying, you know, I met this woman and, you know, I kind of liked her. And I ran into her at a store and she looked at me and she smiled at me. And at that moment, I fell in love immediately.

So, for example, a person is saying, you know, I met this woman and, you know, I kind of liked her. And I ran into her at a store and she looked at me and she smiled at me. And at that moment, I fell in love immediately.

heard so many stories like that at that moment where I discovered my friend said oh you know this person likes you don't you those sorts of things they really can matter a lot you know oh I ran into this person again and he sat down next to me you know you know those kinds of things really matter

heard so many stories like that at that moment where I discovered my friend said oh you know this person likes you don't you those sorts of things they really can matter a lot you know oh I ran into this person again and he sat down next to me you know you know those kinds of things really matter

The longer one is an hour and a half, and it has a lot of questions towards the end that, you know, are, you know, imagine you've fallen in love with this person. Tell them what you feel. You know, things like that.

The longer one is an hour and a half, and it has a lot of questions towards the end that, you know, are, you know, imagine you've fallen in love with this person. Tell them what you feel. You know, things like that.

It also has the item people talk about a lot that are not in the 36 questions, but, you know, look in their eyes for three minutes, in each other's eyes, things like that towards the end. that really are aimed at creating romantic feelings. We tried to be very careful doing that study, not to include people who are already in relationships.

It also has the item people talk about a lot that are not in the 36 questions, but, you know, look in their eyes for three minutes, in each other's eyes, things like that towards the end. that really are aimed at creating romantic feelings. We tried to be very careful doing that study, not to include people who are already in relationships.

Two of the students in my lab tried this out, you know, to experiment, and they literally fell in love, and they got married.

Two of the students in my lab tried this out, you know, to experiment, and they literally fell in love, and they got married.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, there'd been, again, a lot of survey research showing that when you have close friends, relationships are better. So we were able to randomly assign couples to do this as a couple with another. So all the four of them answered each question. And we found that after doing this as a foursome, it much increased their passionate love for each other. It doesn't make you love the other people.

Well, there'd been, again, a lot of survey research showing that when you have close friends, relationships are better. So we were able to randomly assign couples to do this as a couple with another. So all the four of them answered each question. And we found that after doing this as a foursome, it much increased their passionate love for each other. It doesn't make you love the other people.

It makes you like them better, feel more close to them. It increases your passionate love for your partner.

It makes you like them better, feel more close to them. It increases your passionate love for your partner.

Well, we did some tests of why, and the main reason seems to be responsiveness. When you're with another couple and you're talking about deep things, you tend to be more responsive to your own partner. All four of you answer each question, you know, and it's that greater sense of responsiveness that you experience that really makes a difference.

Well, we did some tests of why, and the main reason seems to be responsiveness. When you're with another couple and you're talking about deep things, you tend to be more responsive to your own partner. All four of you answer each question, you know, and it's that greater sense of responsiveness that you experience that really makes a difference.

You know, we try every week at least to do something new and different, and we do some big adventures. You know, usually every summer we take a trip to Europe and go to someplace we've never been before and hike from village to village. And one summer we did something really exciting. We went down the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon on a boat.

You know, we try every week at least to do something new and different, and we do some big adventures. You know, usually every summer we take a trip to Europe and go to someplace we've never been before and hike from village to village. And one summer we did something really exciting. We went down the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon on a boat.

Well, we were looking for people, we were looking for couples that were very intensely in love. These were people who'd been married on the average for 20 years. And we basically just asked various people we knew, that my collaborators knew, and my then-graduate student, Bianca Acevedo, who's now a professor. She interviewed them just to see that they really meant it.

Well, we were looking for people, we were looking for couples that were very intensely in love. These were people who'd been married on the average for 20 years. And we basically just asked various people we knew, that my collaborators knew, and my then-graduate student, Bianca Acevedo, who's now a professor. She interviewed them just to see that they really meant it.

you know on a floating boat with about seven or eight other people and with a friend of ours and uh it was it was intense but it was really wonderful i mean in general the more exciting and interesting the things you do with your partner you then associate with your partner and when you when it's difficult and you overcome the difficulties that's a big plus too that's expanding

you know on a floating boat with about seven or eight other people and with a friend of ours and uh it was it was intense but it was really wonderful i mean in general the more exciting and interesting the things you do with your partner you then associate with your partner and when you when it's difficult and you overcome the difficulties that's a big plus too that's expanding

Yes, we make a point of doing something new and interesting every week at least. We go to concerts and ballets, but we never go to the same ones. And we really enjoy the do-ness, the change.

Yes, we make a point of doing something new and interesting every week at least. We go to concerts and ballets, but we never go to the same ones. And we really enjoy the do-ness, the change.

Well, we were in New York at the time and we went to a lot of plays and we were walking back from a play past a bar. And when we go into the bar, we've never done that before and haven't done that in years and years. We used to when we were younger. So we went in and had a good time.

Well, we were in New York at the time and we went to a lot of plays and we were walking back from a play past a bar. And when we go into the bar, we've never done that before and haven't done that in years and years. We used to when we were younger. So we went in and had a good time.

We went down to this place, and we both sat there. One came in a little before the other. The other sat down near. I don't know who came in first, but the other one came in and sat near them and had some small discussion. Oh, hi, how are you? I don't remember what name I used. And we talked about what we did, which was not what we actually do, but it was kind of fun.

We went down to this place, and we both sat there. One came in a little before the other. The other sat down near. I don't know who came in first, but the other one came in and sat near them and had some small discussion. Oh, hi, how are you? I don't remember what name I used. And we talked about what we did, which was not what we actually do, but it was kind of fun.

And we pretended like we were just meeting, and that was a fun activity. We talked for a while and then basically went home as if it was a hotel and had some fun.

And we pretended like we were just meeting, and that was a fun activity. We talked for a while and then basically went home as if it was a hotel and had some fun.

That's right. I mean, it doesn't hurt, but if you can do more than that, you know, let's go to a restaurant. Let's go to one we've never been to before. You know, let's go to a kind of restaurant we've never been to before. You know, let's do something really different. You know, that's what matters.

That's right. I mean, it doesn't hurt, but if you can do more than that, you know, let's go to a restaurant. Let's go to one we've never been to before. You know, let's go to a kind of restaurant we've never been to before. You know, let's do something really different. You know, that's what matters.

Yeah, well, we've done experiments in the lab, but one of the early things we did is we gave couples a long list of activities, and they had to rate each on a number of things, including how exciting it would be to do this. This is a standard list of activities people do.

Yeah, well, we've done experiments in the lab, but one of the early things we did is we gave couples a long list of activities, and they had to rate each on a number of things, including how exciting it would be to do this. This is a standard list of activities people do.

Then we took a subset of the things that they listed as exciting but not particularly pleasant or not unpleasant, but, you know. And randomly assigned half of them to do something from that list and half to do something from the other items. And every week to spend a half hour to an hour doing one of these things or a little longer. And we had them do this for 10 weeks.

Then we took a subset of the things that they listed as exciting but not particularly pleasant or not unpleasant, but, you know. And randomly assigned half of them to do something from that list and half to do something from the other items. And every week to spend a half hour to an hour doing one of these things or a little longer. And we had them do this for 10 weeks.

And we found that those who were in the exciting activity group showed much bigger increase in the quality of their relationships than the other one.

And we found that those who were in the exciting activity group showed much bigger increase in the quality of their relationships than the other one.

And sure enough, we were able to find, you know, plenty.

And sure enough, we were able to find, you know, plenty.

Yeah, well, it's nice if the activity is both pleasant and novel, but as long as it's, again, as long as it's not more than you can handle.

Yeah, well, it's nice if the activity is both pleasant and novel, but as long as it's, again, as long as it's not more than you can handle.

Yes. Yeah. They came into the lab and we said, we're going to have you do some things. And in one condition, we tied their wrists and ankles together with Velcro strips. And we had them go across, I don't know, it was about 25 feet or something on gym mats. And there was a big round rolled thing in the middle. And they had to go back and forth over it.

Yes. Yeah. They came into the lab and we said, we're going to have you do some things. And in one condition, we tied their wrists and ankles together with Velcro strips. And we had them go across, I don't know, it was about 25 feet or something on gym mats. And there was a big round rolled thing in the middle. And they had to go back and forth over it.

And they had to beat a certain number of minutes to win. And then we had a control condition where one of them would go back and forth and the other would watch. And they enjoyed that. You know, it was pleasant. But we found that those doing the exciting one together, the more interesting one together, showed a big increase in their feeling of love.

And they had to beat a certain number of minutes to win. And then we had a control condition where one of them would go back and forth and the other would watch. And they enjoyed that. You know, it was pleasant. But we found that those doing the exciting one together, the more interesting one together, showed a big increase in their feeling of love.

Just doing something arousing with your partner that's not new and interesting, like going to the gym together or something, does not increase your love for your partner. Doing something new and interesting that is not necessarily arousing does. Now, it doesn't hurt if you have both. In a long-term relationship, what matters is doing things that are novel and interesting with your partner

Just doing something arousing with your partner that's not new and interesting, like going to the gym together or something, does not increase your love for your partner. Doing something new and interesting that is not necessarily arousing does. Now, it doesn't hurt if you have both. In a long-term relationship, what matters is doing things that are novel and interesting with your partner

It's not just doing them and having your partner nearby. It's doing them together. So you feel, yes, I'm having this feeling, but I'm sharing it with my partner. So this is part of who we are as a couple.

It's not just doing them and having your partner nearby. It's doing them together. So you feel, yes, I'm having this feeling, but I'm sharing it with my partner. So this is part of who we are as a couple.

Well, that's because it's sort of expanding, again, to feel humor with your partner. You know, you go to a comedy show or something like that. You know, it riles you up in a good way. It feels new and interesting. And you're sharing it. It makes you feel connected with him. It makes you feel you're one. We've done a lot of research on that, showing how you become one with the other.

Well, that's because it's sort of expanding, again, to feel humor with your partner. You know, you go to a comedy show or something like that. You know, it riles you up in a good way. It feels new and interesting. And you're sharing it. It makes you feel connected with him. It makes you feel you're one. We've done a lot of research on that, showing how you become one with the other.

Not quite fully one, but close to one.

Not quite fully one, but close to one.

Oh, close friendships with other couples really matters a lot. There's a lot of correlational research, a lot of survey research showing this. And we did some experiments using our 36 questions where we had both couples do this together.

Oh, close friendships with other couples really matters a lot. There's a lot of correlational research, a lot of survey research showing this. And we did some experiments using our 36 questions where we had both couples do this together.

Well, we just basically asked them, they would sit together and we'd ask them to describe, you know, what's going on in their relationship. You know, these were all people who said they were very intensely in love. And we asked them, what does that mean and how does that work?

Well, we just basically asked them, they would sit together and we'd ask them to describe, you know, what's going on in their relationship. You know, these were all people who said they were very intensely in love. And we asked them, what does that mean and how does that work?

And we showed that one of the causalities is, you know, if you're close to another couple, you spend time with them and you talk about deep things, you feel deeply connected, That creates a sense of you appreciate your partner's responsiveness to you even. In that context, your partner tends to be more responsive, which is a really important element in relationships.

And we showed that one of the causalities is, you know, if you're close to another couple, you spend time with them and you talk about deep things, you feel deeply connected, That creates a sense of you appreciate your partner's responsiveness to you even. In that context, your partner tends to be more responsive, which is a really important element in relationships.

Feeling your partner is responsive. Being responsive to your partner is good, but feeling your partner is responsive to you. They hear you, they understand you, they care about you. Those are crucial. Last summer, we went on a barge trip with one of our closest couple friends. So we had both an exciting activity and a novel, challenging activity.

Feeling your partner is responsive. Being responsive to your partner is good, but feeling your partner is responsive to you. They hear you, they understand you, they care about you. Those are crucial. Last summer, we went on a barge trip with one of our closest couple friends. So we had both an exciting activity and a novel, challenging activity.

Never been on a barge trip down a river in Scotland, you know. And we also had it with a close friend, so it had a double effect.

Never been on a barge trip down a river in Scotland, you know. And we also had it with a close friend, so it had a double effect.

To prepare for the trip, I got some pills that are supposed to help you. I got a patch I could put on. I got a thing I put on my wrist. There are all these things that people talk about help you deal with, because I knew I'd get seasick easily. And of course, we've since then done a little whale watching on a very large, flat boat, not in a difficult ocean, and it went okay.

To prepare for the trip, I got some pills that are supposed to help you. I got a patch I could put on. I got a thing I put on my wrist. There are all these things that people talk about help you deal with, because I knew I'd get seasick easily. And of course, we've since then done a little whale watching on a very large, flat boat, not in a difficult ocean, and it went okay.

But this time, we were going out into the San Francisco, not the bay, beyond the bay, and it's very rough water, and it was just too much. I fed the whales the whole time, leaning over the edge.

But this time, we were going out into the San Francisco, not the bay, beyond the bay, and it's very rough water, and it was just too much. I fed the whales the whole time, leaning over the edge.

And Bianca, my favorite story is Bianca told me that one couple said, we always annoy our friends because we're always all over each other physically. So while they're talking, they're touching each other and doing things like that.

And Bianca, my favorite story is Bianca told me that one couple said, we always annoy our friends because we're always all over each other physically. So while they're talking, they're touching each other and doing things like that.

Yeah, there's research showing that celebrating your partner's successes matters even more than supporting when things go badly, although that also matters. My wife studies something called the highly sensitive person, and I collaborate with her on that, just like she collaborates with me on our relationship research.

Yeah, there's research showing that celebrating your partner's successes matters even more than supporting when things go badly, although that also matters. My wife studies something called the highly sensitive person, and I collaborate with her on that, just like she collaborates with me on our relationship research.

Well, the very first time I read the paper talking about the role of it being important to celebrate your partner's successes, she had recently submitted a paper to a very top scientific journal. I was a co-author. It was basically her paper. And we thought it had a poor chance of getting accepted, but we gave it a chance.

Well, the very first time I read the paper talking about the role of it being important to celebrate your partner's successes, she had recently submitted a paper to a very top scientific journal. I was a co-author. It was basically her paper. And we thought it had a poor chance of getting accepted, but we gave it a chance.

Before she came home, I got an email from the editor saying the reviewers loved it. I loved it. This is a great paper. We're going to publish it. And so I made a poster of that and put it on the front door for when she came home.

Before she came home, I got an email from the editor saying the reviewers loved it. I loved it. This is a great paper. We're going to publish it. And so I made a poster of that and put it on the front door for when she came home.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yeah, that's true. We had a great night, as you can imagine.

Yes. Yeah, that's true. We had a great night, as you can imagine.

My pleasure. Thank you so much, Shankar.

My pleasure. Thank you so much, Shankar.

Well, we were. In fact, that's why we did the study. So we put them in the scanner to look at what their brains look like, you know, what areas become active when they look at pictures of their partner. We'd done many earlier studies of people who'd just fallen in love, and the key finding was known as the dopamine reward area that would

Well, we were. In fact, that's why we did the study. So we put them in the scanner to look at what their brains look like, you know, what areas become active when they look at pictures of their partner. We'd done many earlier studies of people who'd just fallen in love, and the key finding was known as the dopamine reward area that would

pick up when they looked at a picture of their partner versus a neutral friend. And we found that these people showed the same thing. They showed that activation of the dopamine reward area.

pick up when they looked at a picture of their partner versus a neutral friend. And we found that these people showed the same thing. They showed that activation of the dopamine reward area.

Well, it's an acquaintance that is of the same gender as their partner, as attractive as their partner. We test for all of that, and they look at the two pictures. I mean, they alternate the two, and we're looking at what goes on in their brain when they're looking at that one. This is exactly what we did in the initial study of people who'd just fallen in love.

Well, it's an acquaintance that is of the same gender as their partner, as attractive as their partner. We test for all of that, and they look at the two pictures. I mean, they alternate the two, and we're looking at what goes on in their brain when they're looking at that one. This is exactly what we did in the initial study of people who'd just fallen in love.

We find that strong dopamine reward area. One other thing that we didn't find in the long term, we find an indication of anxiety, tension. You know, if you've just fallen in love with someone, you're likely to worry, are they going to leave me? Are some going to happen to them? Whereas if you've been with someone for 20 years, you don't worry about that as much.

We find that strong dopamine reward area. One other thing that we didn't find in the long term, we find an indication of anxiety, tension. You know, if you've just fallen in love with someone, you're likely to worry, are they going to leave me? Are some going to happen to them? Whereas if you've been with someone for 20 years, you don't worry about that as much.

Well, there's another area of the brain that has been found mostly in animals where they've got a lifelong bond, attachment bond. And we saw that also in the long-term couples. I mean, it's kind of natural if you've been together a while and your things are going well to have that kind of common security.

Well, there's another area of the brain that has been found mostly in animals where they've got a lifelong bond, attachment bond. And we saw that also in the long-term couples. I mean, it's kind of natural if you've been together a while and your things are going well to have that kind of common security.

Well, overall, there's lots of research showing that relationships tend to decline over time. After 10 years, half of them, at least in the U.S., are divorced, or close to half. And overall, not for everybody, but they tend to decline. And so that seems to be what we think is the standard.

Well, overall, there's lots of research showing that relationships tend to decline over time. After 10 years, half of them, at least in the U.S., are divorced, or close to half. And overall, not for everybody, but they tend to decline. And so that seems to be what we think is the standard.

Yeah. When we did a U.S. nationally representative survey, we found that of people married 10 years or longer, 40% claim to be very intensely in love. Now, that means only 20% of those that got married that are still together. But still, that's more than we expected.

Yeah. When we did a U.S. nationally representative survey, we found that of people married 10 years or longer, 40% claim to be very intensely in love. Now, that means only 20% of those that got married that are still together. But still, that's more than we expected.

Well, there is findings, not from my lab, but from others, showing that one of the ways couples often feel good about themselves is by comparing to other couples. You know, you leave a party and say, oh, those people always argue. You know, we don't do that as much. But so it's kind of hard to then be told that, no, some people have really passionate relationships.

Well, there is findings, not from my lab, but from others, showing that one of the ways couples often feel good about themselves is by comparing to other couples. You know, you leave a party and say, oh, those people always argue. You know, we don't do that as much. But so it's kind of hard to then be told that, no, some people have really passionate relationships.

If you don't, as most people don't, it could be a little annoying. On the other hand, it's a reminder that maybe you could do something. We shouldn't just assume that there's nothing we can do. We should look for some way to make it more like that and not just go along with how things are.

If you don't, as most people don't, it could be a little annoying. On the other hand, it's a reminder that maybe you could do something. We shouldn't just assume that there's nothing we can do. We should look for some way to make it more like that and not just go along with how things are.

Yeah. What we did is we went to a part of Vancouver that has a very large bridge way over a river that wobbles. And so when you walk over it, it's a little scary. You could easily fall off. And so we had an attractive woman, young woman standing on the bridge. And when men of appropriate age by himself would walk across, she would stop and say, could I ask you a few questions? I'm a researcher.

Yeah. What we did is we went to a part of Vancouver that has a very large bridge way over a river that wobbles. And so when you walk over it, it's a little scary. You could easily fall off. And so we had an attractive woman, young woman standing on the bridge. And when men of appropriate age by himself would walk across, she would stop and say, could I ask you a few questions? I'm a researcher.

And she asked some questions and showed him a little thing where he would write, make a little picture of something. And we said, thank you very much. And if you want to know more about it, you can phone me. And she'd give him the phone number. We also had her stop an equal number of men on a very safe nearby bridge.

And she asked some questions and showed him a little thing where he would write, make a little picture of something. And we said, thank you very much. And if you want to know more about it, you can phone me. And she'd give him the phone number. We also had her stop an equal number of men on a very safe nearby bridge.

What we found is that on the shaky bridge, the things, the pictures they wrote or the comments they made were much more, had much more romantic and sexual content, and they were much more likely to phone her. So that was the finding. And we've done follow-up studies too.

What we found is that on the shaky bridge, the things, the pictures they wrote or the comments they made were much more, had much more romantic and sexual content, and they were much more likely to phone her. So that was the finding. And we've done follow-up studies too.

And the logic is that if you're shaken up and you're not entirely sure of why, and you meet someone who's attractive, you're likely to think, oh, that's why I'm feeling this. And it turns out that in some other studies done later, it's been replicated many times in various ways.

And the logic is that if you're shaken up and you're not entirely sure of why, and you meet someone who's attractive, you're likely to think, oh, that's why I'm feeling this. And it turns out that in some other studies done later, it's been replicated many times in various ways.

They found that if you're, you know, if you're sort of worked up and you meet someone who's unattractive, you're likely to feel strongly disgusted. In other words, you retake the emotion, the arousal you've gotten, you reinterpret it.

They found that if you're, you know, if you're sort of worked up and you meet someone who's unattractive, you're likely to feel strongly disgusted. In other words, you retake the emotion, the arousal you've gotten, you reinterpret it.

Yeah. You have to be a little careful. I can tell you a little story. Some years after we did this study, I ran into a student who attended one of my classes. And he said, oh, Dr. Aaron, I just wanted to tell you what happened recently. I was in India recently. And I met at his hotel this attractive young woman, and I thought, oh, I know his research.

Yeah. You have to be a little careful. I can tell you a little story. Some years after we did this study, I ran into a student who attended one of my classes. And he said, oh, Dr. Aaron, I just wanted to tell you what happened recently. I was in India recently. And I met at his hotel this attractive young woman, and I thought, oh, I know his research.

So I said, let's take a bicycle taxi and go out to lunch. Well, those are sort of scary in the heavy traffic. So they took the bicycle taxi. They arrived at the place they were going to have lunch, and they got off, and she said, oh, that taxi driver is so attractive.

So I said, let's take a bicycle taxi and go out to lunch. Well, those are sort of scary in the heavy traffic. So they took the bicycle taxi. They arrived at the place they were going to have lunch, and they got off, and she said, oh, that taxi driver is so attractive.

Yes, right.

Yes, right.

Yeah, I mean, it's only one of the causes of falling in love. I mean, there's other circumstances that can strongly create it, and we've done research on that.

Yeah, I mean, it's only one of the causes of falling in love. I mean, there's other circumstances that can strongly create it, and we've done research on that.

Well, that's certainly what happens in a new relationship. But in an ongoing relationship, when you do it together, it's not so much that it's about my feelings about them. It's what we are.

Well, that's certainly what happens in a new relationship. But in an ongoing relationship, when you do it together, it's not so much that it's about my feelings about them. It's what we are.

Well, I think boredom has a big effect. If everything's going fine, fine, you know, we'll just stay together and enjoy raising our children or enjoy having our house together, you know, supporting each other. But we've shown that over time, if you're bored, you're less likely to, you know, to feel love or feel even closeness, as much closeness to your partner.

Well, they weren't interviewed in person. They did a questionnaire early on where they answered a bunch of different questions, three or four of which had to do with boredom. And then we gave them a questionnaire, I don't know, five years later, eight years later or something. that focused on closeness using our standard measure of closeness.

And those who had been more bored eight years earlier were likely to now to have less satisfaction.

Well, I think especially in our culture and in most modern cultures, you hope for more in a relationship. So if you're feeling bored, you're not getting everything you'd like from it.

Well, we've shown that there's a whole bunch of evolutionary work. One main evolutionary thing is survival. The other is growth, change, expansion, what we call expansion. You want to increase who you are, to increase your resources, increase your knowledge. And the other thing we've shown in our research is that when you form a relationship, the other becomes part of who you are.

Relationships are a major way that you can expand rapidly. So when you get close to someone, you include them in the self. And that means that you grow because you've included their resources, their knowledge, their experiences. So you grow. And when that happens at the beginning, it's a rapid expansion of the self. And it's very rewarding.

Over time, it's not that exciting anymore because it's not new expansion.

Well, yes, but they also become part of us. So their abilities and their resources, we actually mix up with our own. We've done a lot of research showing that we mix up memories, we mix up who has what qualities, all sorts of stuff. I sometimes think I know things my partner knows that I don't, or that sort of thing.

So you feel you know more than you did, you feel you have more resources than you did, all sorts of things.

Well, I think you want to be able to do more, to get more, to acquire more. It's just normal and natural and to explore and find new things that make life better. And so we're wired to have that, this idea of growth and, you know, wanting to know more, explore, all of that, seeking more. growth and expansion and creativity.

All of that is a long-term understanding and evolutionary psych, and it's well-documented.

Yes. If we have a partner who's got resources, that's kind of a plus. A partner who is socially valuable is a kind of a plus. A partner who knows a bunch of things is a kind of a plus. It's making us more than we were before. It's giving us more opportunities to do things we couldn't do before. It's not just money and resources. It's creativity.

It's opportunities to be able to do things, to feel things more broadly. All of those things we desire as individuals, we can get through a partner in some ways much more easily.

Mostly people think that similarity matters hugely. It doesn't matter that much. And in fact, overall, we do like to have differences. And we've shown that in the study, that if you think the other person has different interests than you do, and they're not competing with you, that's a plus.

So if you're interested in the arts and they're interested in science, you're going to each gain from each other.

Yes, we want to feel, we like to feel that sense of I'm going to be more now being with them. I'm going to have a fuller life. I'm going to have more opportunities, more knowledge, more interests, more ways to make life enjoyable and interesting. All of that stuff.

Well, yes. I mean, the other person, you've already expanded by including them. I mean, if you were to break up with them, you would lose that. We've shown it's hard to break up a relationship if you have a lot of sense of expansion, including them in the self. So, no, the process of getting there is exciting. But once you're there, you get used to it.

You wouldn't want to lose it, but you get used to it. Now, if you or your partner, if you do something exciting together, you associate that with the partner. If you have some expansion together, or if your partner has an expansion that you can feel connected to, even as an individual, that can be expanding to the self.

There was a student in the class who I had a lot of sort of conflict with. The last day of class, we walked out. We looked at each other. I can still remember this so vividly. We looked at each other a minute and we kissed. And from that moment on, we've been living together. We just celebrated our 50th anniversary. It was so intense. And in fact, it's really what prompted my studying love.

I was a graduate student in social psychology and the idea then was to look for a topic that people think can't be studied scientifically and do it. And there was very little research on love at that time. So that became, you know, what I decided to study, but no, I fell intensely in love with this woman.

It was wonderful. About two months later, we started living together. It was very intense and wonderful. We made a big decision a couple years later to have a baby. We didn't want to get married because, you know, coming from Berkeley in those years, we didn't like the idea. But when our son was four years old, he came home and said, Mommy, what's a bastard? And we thought we'd better get married.

So we've been living together actually 57 years, but we've been married for 50.

One is that each would answer the question and then the other would answer and they'd go on. So they could hear each other and have a chance to be responsive. Another element was the questions were designed so that they'd move from not being very intimate or close to being more and more intimate stuff.

you know if you get on a plane and you talk about your you sit down with someone you start talking about the most intense things in your life you can put them off so if you start with you know smaller things and then gradually move to bigger and you go both ways so it's just so the first set is fairly mundane you know if you go out to dinner with anyone in the world throughout history who would you go out to dinner you know and then they get more and more personal

One of the things that makes people want to get close is to feel they have things in common. Actually having them isn't as important as feeling they do. In the second set, I think we have an item that say, name some things you've noticed you have in common. We never say name some things you don't have in common.

Yeah, and even those get a little stronger as you move ahead, but yes, within the first 12.

Yeah, that's right. That's the idea. We want to create closeness in 45 minutes.

Well, they get closer. This closeness procedure in 45 minutes really works. It doesn't necessarily keep them close in the long term, but certainly right afterwards, they often report feeling as close to the person they were doing the activity with as to the closest person in their life. It really creates a sense of intense closeness.

Self-disclosure provides an opportunity for deep responsiveness. You know, when you interact with someone and, you know, you say something and you feel they've heard you, they understand you, they care about you, that matters a lot.

That's a huge effect. Feeling someone likes you, it really matters for getting close to them. In fact, it's a major factor that we found in falling in love. You know, we've done a lot of surveys where we ask people who've recently fallen in love what happened. And a major thing is I discover the other person liked me.

So, for example, a person is saying, you know, I met this woman and, you know, I kind of liked her. And I ran into her at a store and she looked at me and she smiled at me. And at that moment, I fell in love immediately.

heard so many stories like that at that moment where I discovered my friend said oh you know this person likes you don't you those sorts of things they really can matter a lot you know oh I ran into this person again and he sat down next to me you know you know those kinds of things really matter

The longer one is an hour and a half, and it has a lot of questions towards the end that, you know, are, you know, imagine you've fallen in love with this person. Tell them what you feel. You know, things like that.

It also has the item people talk about a lot that are not in the 36 questions, but, you know, look in their eyes for three minutes, in each other's eyes, things like that towards the end. that really are aimed at creating romantic feelings. We tried to be very careful doing that study, not to include people who are already in relationships.

Two of the students in my lab tried this out, you know, to experiment, and they literally fell in love, and they got married.

Thank you.

Well, there'd been, again, a lot of survey research showing that when you have close friends, relationships are better. So we were able to randomly assign couples to do this as a couple with another. So all the four of them answered each question. And we found that after doing this as a foursome, it much increased their passionate love for each other. It doesn't make you love the other people.

It makes you like them better, feel more close to them. It increases your passionate love for your partner.

Well, we did some tests of why, and the main reason seems to be responsiveness. When you're with another couple and you're talking about deep things, you tend to be more responsive to your own partner. All four of you answer each question, you know, and it's that greater sense of responsiveness that you experience that really makes a difference.

You know, we try every week at least to do something new and different, and we do some big adventures. You know, usually every summer we take a trip to Europe and go to someplace we've never been before and hike from village to village. And one summer we did something really exciting. We went down the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon on a boat.

Well, we were looking for people, we were looking for couples that were very intensely in love. These were people who'd been married on the average for 20 years. And we basically just asked various people we knew, that my collaborators knew, and my then-graduate student, Bianca Acevedo, who's now a professor. She interviewed them just to see that they really meant it.

you know on a floating boat with about seven or eight other people and with a friend of ours and uh it was it was intense but it was really wonderful i mean in general the more exciting and interesting the things you do with your partner you then associate with your partner and when you when it's difficult and you overcome the difficulties that's a big plus too that's expanding

Yes, we make a point of doing something new and interesting every week at least. We go to concerts and ballets, but we never go to the same ones. And we really enjoy the do-ness, the change.

Well, we were in New York at the time and we went to a lot of plays and we were walking back from a play past a bar. And when we go into the bar, we've never done that before and haven't done that in years and years. We used to when we were younger. So we went in and had a good time.

We went down to this place, and we both sat there. One came in a little before the other. The other sat down near. I don't know who came in first, but the other one came in and sat near them and had some small discussion. Oh, hi, how are you? I don't remember what name I used. And we talked about what we did, which was not what we actually do, but it was kind of fun.

And we pretended like we were just meeting, and that was a fun activity. We talked for a while and then basically went home as if it was a hotel and had some fun.

That's right. I mean, it doesn't hurt, but if you can do more than that, you know, let's go to a restaurant. Let's go to one we've never been to before. You know, let's go to a kind of restaurant we've never been to before. You know, let's do something really different. You know, that's what matters.

Yeah, well, we've done experiments in the lab, but one of the early things we did is we gave couples a long list of activities, and they had to rate each on a number of things, including how exciting it would be to do this. This is a standard list of activities people do.

Then we took a subset of the things that they listed as exciting but not particularly pleasant or not unpleasant, but, you know. And randomly assigned half of them to do something from that list and half to do something from the other items. And every week to spend a half hour to an hour doing one of these things or a little longer. And we had them do this for 10 weeks.

And we found that those who were in the exciting activity group showed much bigger increase in the quality of their relationships than the other one.

And sure enough, we were able to find, you know, plenty.

Yeah, well, it's nice if the activity is both pleasant and novel, but as long as it's, again, as long as it's not more than you can handle.

Yes. Yeah. They came into the lab and we said, we're going to have you do some things. And in one condition, we tied their wrists and ankles together with Velcro strips. And we had them go across, I don't know, it was about 25 feet or something on gym mats. And there was a big round rolled thing in the middle. And they had to go back and forth over it.

And they had to beat a certain number of minutes to win. And then we had a control condition where one of them would go back and forth and the other would watch. And they enjoyed that. You know, it was pleasant. But we found that those doing the exciting one together, the more interesting one together, showed a big increase in their feeling of love.

Just doing something arousing with your partner that's not new and interesting, like going to the gym together or something, does not increase your love for your partner. Doing something new and interesting that is not necessarily arousing does. Now, it doesn't hurt if you have both. In a long-term relationship, what matters is doing things that are novel and interesting with your partner

It's not just doing them and having your partner nearby. It's doing them together. So you feel, yes, I'm having this feeling, but I'm sharing it with my partner. So this is part of who we are as a couple.

Well, that's because it's sort of expanding, again, to feel humor with your partner. You know, you go to a comedy show or something like that. You know, it riles you up in a good way. It feels new and interesting. And you're sharing it. It makes you feel connected with him. It makes you feel you're one. We've done a lot of research on that, showing how you become one with the other.

Not quite fully one, but close to one.

Oh, close friendships with other couples really matters a lot. There's a lot of correlational research, a lot of survey research showing this. And we did some experiments using our 36 questions where we had both couples do this together.

Well, we just basically asked them, they would sit together and we'd ask them to describe, you know, what's going on in their relationship. You know, these were all people who said they were very intensely in love. And we asked them, what does that mean and how does that work?

And we showed that one of the causalities is, you know, if you're close to another couple, you spend time with them and you talk about deep things, you feel deeply connected, That creates a sense of you appreciate your partner's responsiveness to you even. In that context, your partner tends to be more responsive, which is a really important element in relationships.

Feeling your partner is responsive. Being responsive to your partner is good, but feeling your partner is responsive to you. They hear you, they understand you, they care about you. Those are crucial. Last summer, we went on a barge trip with one of our closest couple friends. So we had both an exciting activity and a novel, challenging activity.

Never been on a barge trip down a river in Scotland, you know. And we also had it with a close friend, so it had a double effect.

To prepare for the trip, I got some pills that are supposed to help you. I got a patch I could put on. I got a thing I put on my wrist. There are all these things that people talk about help you deal with, because I knew I'd get seasick easily. And of course, we've since then done a little whale watching on a very large, flat boat, not in a difficult ocean, and it went okay.

But this time, we were going out into the San Francisco, not the bay, beyond the bay, and it's very rough water, and it was just too much. I fed the whales the whole time, leaning over the edge.

And Bianca, my favorite story is Bianca told me that one couple said, we always annoy our friends because we're always all over each other physically. So while they're talking, they're touching each other and doing things like that.

Yeah, there's research showing that celebrating your partner's successes matters even more than supporting when things go badly, although that also matters. My wife studies something called the highly sensitive person, and I collaborate with her on that, just like she collaborates with me on our relationship research.

Well, the very first time I read the paper talking about the role of it being important to celebrate your partner's successes, she had recently submitted a paper to a very top scientific journal. I was a co-author. It was basically her paper. And we thought it had a poor chance of getting accepted, but we gave it a chance.

Before she came home, I got an email from the editor saying the reviewers loved it. I loved it. This is a great paper. We're going to publish it. And so I made a poster of that and put it on the front door for when she came home.

Yes.

Yes. Yeah, that's true. We had a great night, as you can imagine.

My pleasure. Thank you so much, Shankar.

Well, we were. In fact, that's why we did the study. So we put them in the scanner to look at what their brains look like, you know, what areas become active when they look at pictures of their partner. We'd done many earlier studies of people who'd just fallen in love, and the key finding was known as the dopamine reward area that would

pick up when they looked at a picture of their partner versus a neutral friend. And we found that these people showed the same thing. They showed that activation of the dopamine reward area.

Well, it's an acquaintance that is of the same gender as their partner, as attractive as their partner. We test for all of that, and they look at the two pictures. I mean, they alternate the two, and we're looking at what goes on in their brain when they're looking at that one. This is exactly what we did in the initial study of people who'd just fallen in love.

We find that strong dopamine reward area. One other thing that we didn't find in the long term, we find an indication of anxiety, tension. You know, if you've just fallen in love with someone, you're likely to worry, are they going to leave me? Are some going to happen to them? Whereas if you've been with someone for 20 years, you don't worry about that as much.

Well, there's another area of the brain that has been found mostly in animals where they've got a lifelong bond, attachment bond. And we saw that also in the long-term couples. I mean, it's kind of natural if you've been together a while and your things are going well to have that kind of common security.

Well, overall, there's lots of research showing that relationships tend to decline over time. After 10 years, half of them, at least in the U.S., are divorced, or close to half. And overall, not for everybody, but they tend to decline. And so that seems to be what we think is the standard.

Yeah. When we did a U.S. nationally representative survey, we found that of people married 10 years or longer, 40% claim to be very intensely in love. Now, that means only 20% of those that got married that are still together. But still, that's more than we expected.

Well, there is findings, not from my lab, but from others, showing that one of the ways couples often feel good about themselves is by comparing to other couples. You know, you leave a party and say, oh, those people always argue. You know, we don't do that as much. But so it's kind of hard to then be told that, no, some people have really passionate relationships.

If you don't, as most people don't, it could be a little annoying. On the other hand, it's a reminder that maybe you could do something. We shouldn't just assume that there's nothing we can do. We should look for some way to make it more like that and not just go along with how things are.

Yeah. What we did is we went to a part of Vancouver that has a very large bridge way over a river that wobbles. And so when you walk over it, it's a little scary. You could easily fall off. And so we had an attractive woman, young woman standing on the bridge. And when men of appropriate age by himself would walk across, she would stop and say, could I ask you a few questions? I'm a researcher.

And she asked some questions and showed him a little thing where he would write, make a little picture of something. And we said, thank you very much. And if you want to know more about it, you can phone me. And she'd give him the phone number. We also had her stop an equal number of men on a very safe nearby bridge.

What we found is that on the shaky bridge, the things, the pictures they wrote or the comments they made were much more, had much more romantic and sexual content, and they were much more likely to phone her. So that was the finding. And we've done follow-up studies too.

And the logic is that if you're shaken up and you're not entirely sure of why, and you meet someone who's attractive, you're likely to think, oh, that's why I'm feeling this. And it turns out that in some other studies done later, it's been replicated many times in various ways.

They found that if you're, you know, if you're sort of worked up and you meet someone who's unattractive, you're likely to feel strongly disgusted. In other words, you retake the emotion, the arousal you've gotten, you reinterpret it.

Yeah. You have to be a little careful. I can tell you a little story. Some years after we did this study, I ran into a student who attended one of my classes. And he said, oh, Dr. Aaron, I just wanted to tell you what happened recently. I was in India recently. And I met at his hotel this attractive young woman, and I thought, oh, I know his research.

So I said, let's take a bicycle taxi and go out to lunch. Well, those are sort of scary in the heavy traffic. So they took the bicycle taxi. They arrived at the place they were going to have lunch, and they got off, and she said, oh, that taxi driver is so attractive.

Yes, right.

Yeah, I mean, it's only one of the causes of falling in love. I mean, there's other circumstances that can strongly create it, and we've done research on that.

Well, that's certainly what happens in a new relationship. But in an ongoing relationship, when you do it together, it's not so much that it's about my feelings about them. It's what we are.