Angela Gallup

It was quite a tough, a tough environment. And when I was there at night, I thought it was a frightening place.

It was quite a tough, a tough environment. And when I was there at night, I thought it was a frightening place.

So I remember saying, yes, absolutely, we'll have a look at it. And then I remember very shortly afterwards, when I started to have a look through some of the papers, I thought, well, you know, there's hardly anything to look at. All there is is the suit that Roberto Calvi was wearing and there was his shoes and there was the rope that was taken from around his neck. And that was pretty much it.

So I remember saying, yes, absolutely, we'll have a look at it. And then I remember very shortly afterwards, when I started to have a look through some of the papers, I thought, well, you know, there's hardly anything to look at. All there is is the suit that Roberto Calvi was wearing and there was his shoes and there was the rope that was taken from around his neck. And that was pretty much it.

And I thought, this is a huge question. Was he murdered or did he commit suicide? And I only have this stuff.

And I thought, this is a huge question. Was he murdered or did he commit suicide? And I only have this stuff.

And so, you know, there were so many disadvantages to this case that I do remember wondering to myself what I'd taken on.

And so, you know, there were so many disadvantages to this case that I do remember wondering to myself what I'd taken on.

There's quite a lot to manage in this atmosphere of, you know, water moving up and down, vast volumes of water, a strong current underneath you. It's quite a lot to think about. That would have been a really frightening place. Dark, wet, noisy, dangerous, obviously dangerous.

There's quite a lot to manage in this atmosphere of, you know, water moving up and down, vast volumes of water, a strong current underneath you. It's quite a lot to think about. That would have been a really frightening place. Dark, wet, noisy, dangerous, obviously dangerous.

Four main routes by which Calvi could have got to the scaffolding. Well, two suicide routes, two murder routes, I should say.

Four main routes by which Calvi could have got to the scaffolding. Well, two suicide routes, two murder routes, I should say.

He walked along the embankment, walked under Blackfriars Bridge.

He walked along the embankment, walked under Blackfriars Bridge.

One of the murder routes was someone else to help him, goodness knows.

One of the murder routes was someone else to help him, goodness knows.

We can say some things, some routes are so deeply unlikely. And actually there's absolutely no evidence of the type that you would expect that we can basically rule them out.

We can say some things, some routes are so deeply unlikely. And actually there's absolutely no evidence of the type that you would expect that we can basically rule them out.

This particular chap that I got to climb down the ladder did happen to be my husband. He was a forensic scientist too.

This particular chap that I got to climb down the ladder did happen to be my husband. He was a forensic scientist too.

I remember he complained bitterly and he claimed to have vertigo because I think it was quite tricky, you know, these very thin little metal bars on a very sort of tight frame, you know, it was near vertical and the rungs were very narrow and just tricky to climb down that, really tricky.

I remember he complained bitterly and he claimed to have vertigo because I think it was quite tricky, you know, these very thin little metal bars on a very sort of tight frame, you know, it was near vertical and the rungs were very narrow and just tricky to climb down that, really tricky.

Looking at the shoes made us think, well, what would you expect if he had, for example, on the suicide routes, walked along the scaffolding poles? What could we expect to find?

Looking at the shoes made us think, well, what would you expect if he had, for example, on the suicide routes, walked along the scaffolding poles? What could we expect to find?

Even if you then subjected them to being submerged in swirling water, you still found this stuff. And even if you then scrub at the soles a bit, they were still there after all this treatment. And so you would have expected to have found something like that had he walked across these poles.

Even if you then subjected them to being submerged in swirling water, you still found this stuff. And even if you then scrub at the soles a bit, they were still there after all this treatment. And so you would have expected to have found something like that had he walked across these poles.

So all of these experiments with spare shoes that Calvi had and his suits and things all fed into this conclusion that we finally came to, which was that both the suicide routes were, you know, seemed to be really unlikely.

So all of these experiments with spare shoes that Calvi had and his suits and things all fed into this conclusion that we finally came to, which was that both the suicide routes were, you know, seemed to be really unlikely.

I began to see that because the police had almost immediately come to the conclusion that it was suicide... They didn't bother to look at the scene in as much detail as you might like.

I began to see that because the police had almost immediately come to the conclusion that it was suicide... They didn't bother to look at the scene in as much detail as you might like.

When I looked at the underpants, you could see the curve of the bottom of the shirt. And then you could see all the stripes in this silty kind of material on the underpants. And it made it look as if he'd been sitting down in something that was quite silty.

When I looked at the underpants, you could see the curve of the bottom of the shirt. And then you could see all the stripes in this silty kind of material on the underpants. And it made it look as if he'd been sitting down in something that was quite silty.

And if he'd had his legs stretched out in front of him, then that was maybe why the backs of the calves had the same sort of material on them. And so then that made me think about... It made me think about boats.

And if he'd had his legs stretched out in front of him, then that was maybe why the backs of the calves had the same sort of material on them. And so then that made me think about... It made me think about boats.

That would have been a really frightening place. Dark, wet, dangerous.

That would have been a really frightening place. Dark, wet, dangerous.