Andrew Doyle
Appearances
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It was led by a pack of the most reprehensible people you could possibly imagine. Insane. It's not worse than insane. Truly malevolent and fetishistic and demented in the way that we've been describing. W-path people and unforgivable. So you were standing up for normal reality and that was that. And it happened very quickly.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Okay. So let's turn to Andrew for a moment. We'll get back to you right away. So Andrew, I think people probably on this podcast are a little bit more familiar with you in all likelihood than they are with Graham, not least because of your famous character, um, Now, of course, your name is going to escape me.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Titania, yes, of course, of course. And you wrote a book as her, which was very comical. And you had, and still have? How active is Titania on X now?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So you were an early part of the movement to monetize the social justice warriors.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It was as cynical as that. Yeah, so explain, let's go back to the time of Titania McGrath. Explain what you were doing and then also tell everybody all the other things that you've been involved in.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It's also a movement that was based on the belief that virtually every form of interaction can be construed as a kind of bullying, given that there's no human motivation fundamentally other than that of power.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Although maybe the comedians, the true comedians, like Joe Rogan, will in fact have their last laugh. So we talked about Graham's life in fair detail at the beginning of the podcast because he went from riches to rags, right? Quite traumatically. Graham was...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That's exactly right. I've looked into this quite deeply at a psychological level, and I think you can make a strong biological case at the level of perception that there is no distinction more fundamental than the distinction between male and female. It's more... It's more fundamental than up and down. It's more fundamental than black and white or night and day.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And if you can get people to swallow the equivalence of that fundamental pair of opposites, there is absolutely no lie whatsoever that they'll resist.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That's my point. It's the compulsion too that's the problem, right? The fact that you... This is why I objected to Bill C-16 back in about 2016. You know, I can say whatever I want, fundamentally, but the government doesn't get to compel it. And I don't care if the reason is hypothetically empathy and compassion. It's like, first of all, I doubt that. And second, it doesn't matter.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
maybe the most successful sitcom writer in the UK, and the man who penned a number of shows that were beloved by, well, by very large audiences. And despite that, when he had the temerity to have some perfectly reasonable opinions about perfectly reasonable subjects, his life was demolished. His marriage ended.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So a couple of announcements. First, I'm on tour again. And so if you go to jordanbpeterson.com, you can find out cities and dates. And that starts in December and runs through April. So check that out if you're inclined. The tour deals with the issues that I raise in my new book, which came out on November 19th. It's called We Who Wrestle With God.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, what can you expect from a TERF?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
There's a problem there fundamentally that's akin to the problem of the center and the margin. No, the postmodernists, the French intellectuals, assumed that the reason that any center was established was for no other reason than that of power. And so they construed the center against its opposite, let's say. That's like a dialectic of thesis and antithesis.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But there's a problem with that conceptually, because the center is always a unity. and any unity is surrounded by a margin right now.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And there's an uneasy balance between the center and the margin because all centers have a margin, and the margin is where all the experimentation takes place that's necessary for the center to propagate itself across time because it has to change somewhat as it moves. But the problem with the margin is that every element of the margin has a margin.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And then every element of the fringe of the margin has a margin. And if you go out far enough into the margin, you don't encounter the oppressed. You encounter the truly monstrous. And that's a very big problem.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
He was persona non grata in the artistic community, which is a complete bloody catastrophe. And eventually was inclined, not least by necessity, to sever his ties with his home country. Everyone he knew virtually turned the other way. And that's a terrible thing. And Andrew, by contrast, has sort of ridden the woke wave, I would say.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
The UK was always great at that, too.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That also might be a consequence to some degree, an unintended consequence of the technology that unites us, the internet. Because before, if you were an eccentric, by definition, there was one of you. But now online, you can find the other thousands sprinkled throughout the world and you're no longer an eccentric. You're a movement. Yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And we have no idea what it means, what that possibility of, what would you say, aggregation of the truly, not even the eccentric, but the monstrous. We have no idea what that aggregation means.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, well, maybe one of the ways that you can tell when empathy for the marginal has exceeded its boundaries is when the marginalized who are being empathized with start to restrict eccentricity. When the now included marginalized become intolerant, the empathetic endeavor has gone too far.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Because they're now making the rules.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yes, Russell Brand has departed for places unknown, too, into the United States for exactly the same reason.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I don't think it's histrionic. I think people were thinking it. You get a substantive amount of creative freedom and a certain amount of like supportive social infrastructure in order to think creatively, because you really have to be free to think creatively, because it's risky.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And you're going to, certainly you're going to transgress against boundaries explicitly and implicitly, because while you're casting about for humor, you're going to go too far from time to time, like obviously. Yes. You know, and you know, too, that the best comedy is the closest it can possibly be to being offensive without quite managing it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
He's one of the few individuals, particularly in the UK, who has managed to turn the fact of the woke mob into something approximating enhanced commercial success. And so as Graham's ship was sinking, Andrew's star was rising. In any case, they have joined forces now and with Rob Schneider to start this new enterprise. We talked about the dismal state of the UK and Europe.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
know exactly i call them regime comedians that's a great well they're also thrilled about the regime because it's the only see one of the things i've noticed about woke books especially the ones for children is the illustrations are they're absolutely hideous yes they're talentless dull and and like they're monstrous in their in their what in their incompetence They're so bad.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, the only possible reason you got to illustrate that book and have it published is because it has the right political message. Because no one in their right mind would look at a drawing that you made for more than two seconds without turning aside. And so you see the same thing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
This is certainly one of the things that I saw in universities, and it was awful, is that ideological purity was the best possible camouflage for appalling mediocrity. It's like, well, I can't do what I'm supposed to do, but I can certainly tow the bloody party line.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And if you need an enforcer, well, here I am, partly because I have nothing better to do or nothing that I would like to do more, which is even worse.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That's not so much a comparison as an identity, I would say. I'm serious. I've looked into medical atrocities a lot and into the psychological motivations of the people that commit them. And I don't think the only things that I've read, and I truly believe this is the case, the only things I've read on the medical side that are worse than what the trans-surgical butchers are doing right now
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
are the experiments conducted on the Chinese by Unit 731 in Japan. And that is like the, for everyone watching and listening, do not go and read about Unit 731. You will seriously regret it. And that is the only trigger warning I've ever offered publicly or to my students. And I mean it, so beware. But that comparison is entirely apt. It's entirely apt.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
We've seen a revolution in the political landscape. In the United States, there's one coming to Canada, but man, things are looking rough in the UK. their true home of common law and the tradition of free speech, and the home of at least once of the greatest comedians the world has ever seen, I think, and so that's a terrible thing to see.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I was assuming you accept the principle of non-contradiction and we're way past that. It's like gender is entirely fluid and it's divorced from sex, except in the case of children who are confused about their gender, who have to be surgically transformed into the opposite sex. I see.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So I'm supposed to accept all of that, including the logical impossibility to say nothing of the absolute bloody barbarism that's part of the surgery. I mean, those surgeries, it's no wonder Schellenberger wouldn't believe it because you don't want to know anything about those surgeries once you...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
clamber into the dismal realm of their actual reality and the side effects and oh my god and the absolute foolish and preposterous notion that surgeons are capable of creating something as complex as a vagina or a penis the bloody things barely work when you have one that's actually real so well seriously man it's like we're gonna make one it's like no i don't think so
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I talked to Chloe. I don't remember Chloe's last name at the moment, but she was one of their... Cole, yes. One of the very early... Desisters, let's say. Very nice girl and very straightforward. And the interview I did with her devolved quite quickly or evolved into essentially a clinical interview because I was interested in
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
what she had been told prior to embarking on puberty blockers and hormonal transformation, and then ultimately at a very young age surgery. And I asked her, so it's well known in the psychological community by anyone with even a modicum of training that negative emotion increases in women when they hit puberty.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So if you measure levels of negative emotion, which include bodily self-consciousness, by the way, In boys and girls, they're pretty much the same. But once they hit puberty, women are more sensitive to negative emotion than men, and they stay that way for the rest of their life. And so there's various theories about that. One is... sexual risk.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
One is the difference in body size that emerges between men and women at puberty, because boys and girls are about the same in strength, but juvenile adolescents obviously aren't. Certainly men and women aren't. And of course, sex is way more dangerous for women, obviously. And maybe the world as such is. Plus, they have to take care of infants. So they're more sensitive to negative emotion.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And the same dismal fate at the moment appears to await Europe, and so we delved into that in some detail, touching along the way the absolute pathology of the Canadian liberal landscape under our head narcissist Justin Trudeau, who's...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And in women, more than in men, negative emotion tends to take the form of bodily shame and self-awareness. And there's all sorts of reasons for that as well. Maybe one of them being that women are judged more harshly on their looks than men are. And it's a big difference. Anyways, this is well established and no one who's trained is unaware of it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Women have more anxiety disorders, more depression worldwide. These are cross-culturally stable findings. Everyone knows this. And it's known that it emerges at puberty. And I asked Cole, I said, well, you know, you were unhappy with your body. What she told me was she had had fantasies of having a body like Kim Kardashian, very curvy, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And she realized early on, correctly or incorrectly, it doesn't really matter, that she was likely to have a boyish figure. Now, she's a very attractive girl, and men have a very wide range of personalities. what would you say? Types. Absolutely, absolutely. There's a wide range of feminine beauty.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So she had no, there was no reason for her to be concerned on that front any more than any other girl might be. And I asked her if anyone had ever told her that an increase in negative emotion was common in puberty for girls, or that it often took the form of body dysmorphia, because that's extremely common and might even be the norm in pubertal women. It's extremely common.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And those are the first things she should have been told. Third thing, first two things, the third thing should have been, do you know that 90% of people with dysmorphia Body dysmorphia, which is very common in puberty, desist by the time they're 18. And that's been the standard approach for so-called gender dysphoria for like four decades.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And again, no one trained, remotely trained, doesn't know that. She was told none of that. 20-minute bloody consultation session, and she ended up with a double mastectomy. And even more fun, you might say, is that the surgical scars on her breasts never healed properly. So that's her life. And compared to someone who's had a
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
fated for an electoral defeat of unimaginable magnitude, but not for a whole year during which he'll do plenty of damage in precisely the way that a wounded narcissist would. Anyways, if you're interested in any or all of that, join us on this podcast. So, gentlemen, welcome.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, the surgeons will reassure the girls that you can always have new breasts installed if you change your mind. And that's one of the marketing ploys of people who are promoting this absolute bloody butchery.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Like, it shares with... Yes, the a priori presumption should be not only kook, but what would you say? Manipulative, narcissistic, and malevolent kook. Opportunists, you know?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, there's another thing to point out on that side, too, is that our default assumption when we see a man participating in women's sports is that that person is a malignant narcissist. Because, first of all, obviously, because all you have to do is think about it for 15 seconds. And I'm dead serious about this. It's like, okay, you're Leah Thomas.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think that was William, if I remember correctly.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And that's a non-crime hate incident for those of you in the UK who want to report it. And so he's six foot four, I think that's about right. Massive shoulders, you know, a fairly powerful swimmer. I think he ranked 400th in the US among American swimmers of his age, which is not bad, right? I mean, it's not number one and he definitely wanted to be number one.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But then you think, just put yourself in this position for a minute. You're like a foot and a half taller than the people that you're competing against and six inches broader in the shoulder. And when you get up on the podium and there's a claim, not only do you enjoy it, which is a sign that there's something seriously wrong with you to begin with, but you also are so deluded.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
that you think you deserve it, and that you're a brave once victim for managing it. Now, just contemplate that. Imagine writing a script about that. Do you know how... staggeringly narcissistic you have to be to accept even one of those propositions, let alone to play yourself off as a heroic victim while you're doing it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think the first thing we should probably do is let everybody know what you have done in the past to be sufficiently reprehensible to be a worthwhile guest on this particular podcast. Graham, why don't you let everybody know, well, yeah, the nature of your sins and crimes. Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You knock these poor women off their podium and it's like you're the forthright champion of what? Civil rights or something. It's so sickening.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, I think there'd be two reasons. The first thing we need to understand is that the... camouflage in which the narcissists and butchers that we're describing enmesh themselves is in the camouflage of empathy. And empathy is a cardinal moral virtue. Now, the problem is, the problem starts when you believe that the fundamental essence of goodness is empathy, because that's wrong.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Goodness is much more complex than a mere one-dimensional analysis would presume. But if you're if I can accuse you of being non-empathetic, that's a pretty decent slur. Now, empathy also was a valid term impetus or motivation for many things that were laudable. So the American Civil Rights Movement, for example, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Now the problem is, is that it can, and this is the problem, this is being demonstrated time and again by game theorists working in the biological realm. Imagine you have a community of cooperators, a game that's set up so that people only cooperate. If everyone cooperates, the game can sustain itself and improve as it's played. But if you throw one shark into the tank, then it takes everything.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So empathy is a very useful foundation for social interactions. I trust you, and I trust you. Great, now we can cooperate. The problem is that if you get a community of cooperators established, Non-cooperators can move in and dominate. And so there's an ambivalence between trust and skepticism that's bound to emerge.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Okay, so we produced a society that was very trust-based in which empathy could function very effectively. And then it got weaponized. Now, it got weaponized by psychopaths and narcissists, fundamentally, and sadists. We know their type. They're Machiavellian, so they use language to get what they want. They're narcissistic, so they want undeserved attention.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
They're psychopathic, so they're predatory parasites. And they're sadistic, so they're fun people. And they weaponize empathy and it's unbelievably effective.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Now, part of the reason it's effective and part of the reason I think that people didn't stand up, they didn't stand up for me in Canada, although some people did and some journalists, none of my professional colleagues to speak of, almost no psychologists, virtually no physicians. Agreeable, empathetic people don't believe that the parasitic, predatory, Machiavellian narcissists exist.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
They don't have that space in their imagination. And for them, so their default assumption is that anyone who's misbehaving is a victim.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Now, you can even, even that's understandable because you can say, look. 80% of the people in prison were victimized. Now, not everybody who's victimized turns into a criminal. In fact, quite the reverse. So that's a rather weak demonstration. But that still also leaves the 20%, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And they're the 20% that include the psychopathic rapists who, when the Scottish National Parliament decides that men and women are the same, decide that it's time for them to go into the women's prisons. All the agreeable people think, Oh, those people don't exist. They're just misunderstood.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Especially now that they've aggregated online, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You can really attack effectively. You can't even face your accuser. There's zero consequences of accusing someone, so that also enables everybody who delights in accusation.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, it's also cost-free.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Like the cost to any given person for writing you off. Now, you might argue about that with regards to your very close friends. But when we met at a restaurant the other night, and I mentioned to you that I'd been following you on X for a long time, and it was probably... probably took me six months of following you before I trusted you.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, because even though I know that this thing happens all the time, and even though I know that I knew that in all likelihood you were one of the people that it happened to, I still wondered, well, you know, as everyone does, where there's smoke, there might be fire. And it's just, that's in addition to Andrew's point. It's like, You're asking a lot of people to defend you.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
They have to admit to the existence of an evil that, first of all, they can't comprehend. And second of all, they do not want to admit to. And no bloody wonder. It's not surprising.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, it's also the case, too, that a lot of this is now instantiated in law. So, for example, in Canada, if you're a physician or a psychologist and you object to gender-affirming care, which is one of those phrases that's so pathological that it's truly a miracle of deception, then...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
The probability that you'll be reported by an activist somewhere and that you'll face at minimum like years of legal entanglement at your expense with a high probability of losing your professional status and your license, like the probability of that is virtually 100%.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
What were they?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, we do want to delve into that because one of the things we also want to explore is why you guys decided to move to the United States. And I'm spending a lot of my time in the United States for very similar reasons and know of very many other people who are doing the same thing. It's no bloody wonder this country thrives, say, because whenever any other place becomes unstable,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You can flee, so to speak, if you're the least bit creative and pursue whatever it is you want to pursue here and actually be, I would say, actually be appreciated for it. Okay, so talk about the situation in the UK and define this non-crime, non-crime hate incident.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Even though it's basically an English principle that the Americans adopted.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, especially when the question, who the hell defines hate, immediately exists. And the answer is, the person that you least want to. Exactly. Always, yeah. That's leveraged immediately. Absolutely.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
In Canada, it includes gender expression, which is fashion.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And if it is flagged there... So that's a social credit system. You won't get the job.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You know, we've actually superseded you characters in the UK and Canada.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Bill C-63? Yes. I've got to tell you about this bill. It's in second reading in the House, and I think the bloody Liberals will pass it before Trudeau gets turfed. Right. And so, not the T-E-R-F turf, but the other kind. Okay, so this is sandwiched in the layers of the bill that purports to protect children from online sexual abuse.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And in that book, I take apart a sequence of Old Testament stories and explain, at least as far as I'm concerned, at least part of what they mean. And I try to do that in a way that's comprehensible and as profound as I could make it, but also very practically applicable. And so that's a good combination of high-level abstraction and immediate practical applicability.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Okay, so, and who could object to that, obviously, even though the bill does almost nothing to actually make that, to decrease the probability of that. I've read this like five times because I can't believe it's actually true. I keep thinking, I can't say this because it can't be true. But here's what I understood.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I can take you in front of a provincial magistrate. And if I can convince that magistrate that you might commit a hate crime in the next year, so a non-crime hate incident.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I might. That I'm afraid that you might.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
If I can show that my fear is justified, whatever the hell that means, then... You can have an electronic bracelet affixed to your ankle for a year. You can be confined to your house. Your communication with the outside world, including social media, can be restricted to virtually nothing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And for reasons that I really can't understand at all, you will be required to provide samples of your bodily fluids to the authorities on a regular basis. I think to determine whether you've been consuming alcohol or
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
marijuana is like marijuana doesn't make you commit hate crimes alcohol might but but i think they probably got that from domestic abuse law right because if if you're a drunk and you're a domestic abuse you're much more likely to reoffend but so we we've surpassed the non-crime as a precursor to crime we have Fear of non-crime as a precursor to crime.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Especially in the UK, because you guys are so cutting with your tongues.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
They need that. They need somebody to teach comedy.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So no matter how stupid the Conservatives are, the Labour Party can do worse.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Every Christian Welshman has that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Those were the court cases that were sped along so efficaciously.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
When you dress up in sick and unpleasant costumes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Who was the comedian who got nailed for teaching his dog to do the hippie sleuth? Oh, I'm involved in that story.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Which you are now an honorary member of, by the way.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It was his girlfriend's dog. It was his girlfriend's dog. And he didn't like it. And he shouldn't have because it was a pug. Yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, it's like a hug is a testament to Hitler.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You know, I mean, seriously.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
No, it's important to highlight these sorts of things, though, because you want to see where you're, just like I said, it took me like six months to trust you on X. You want to see, it's not like only those people are susceptible to this like mass hysteria. You got to watch and see where you're susceptible. And if you have been susceptible in some manner, you should admit it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, you know, at one point during the pandemic, COVID epidemic, the so-called COVID epidemic, I got vaccinated twice. Now, in my defense, I was very ill at the time and wasn't really able to think. But I did get vaccinated. But I also said at the end of one podcast, and I would say in some ways, despite some inner prompting, that people should just get the damn vaccine.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And my thinking at the time was, seriously, I was like, I'll take the shots. Here's the deal. I'll take the shots. You leave me the hell alone. And then I found out instantly that the deal was you take the shots and then you take six more and forget about being left alone. And that was the end of that as far as I was concerned. But still, I made a mistake. You know, I made a mistake.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And I would say... It was very difficult for me at that point to believe that the pharmaceutical companies had become so corrupt that you couldn't trust their vaccine policy. You know, it was easier to think that it was the more conspiratorially minded, you know, alt-right types that were pushing this doctrine.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, it's part of group identity, really. Like, I mean, it's necessary for human beings to cooperate, to reach consensus, That's almost universal on everything rapidly, right? Because otherwise we can't cooperate.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
The net has enabled the reputation-savaging psychopath. So, you know, the female pattern of bullying, because there's a female pattern of antisocial personality, the female version isn't violence. The female version is reputation-savaging. And men can also partake in reputation savaging. If they do that in real life, they get into a fight. Women don't because women won't fight physically.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But men will. But online, there's no consequences to reputation savaging whatsoever. In fact, it's probably amplified by the social media companies and the algorithms. And so I think... Not only can the reputation savages aggregate, they can do so anonymously. They can levy accusations without any consequences whatsoever.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And the consequences of that are rapid and devastating, partly because it's easy to write someone off.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think it's mobilized, too. There are definitely aggregations of activists who are weaponizing the professional colleges, for example.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You know what I mean? So, you know, in the story of the Tower of Babel is a very interesting story in this regard. So what happens in the opening chapters of Genesis is you have an account of the two ways that society collapsed. So it's propelled by the sin of Cain and he becomes vengeful and bitter because his offerings to God are rejected.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So he's a bitter and resentful individual who isn't offering his best. And he becomes murderous and his descendants become genocidal. Okay, so that's the individual pathology, the disintegration of the descendants of that pathological individual, and then you have the flood. And so the flood is a descent into utter chaos, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But then you have the Tower of Babel, and the Tower of Babel is equally catastrophic, but opposite. It's the imposition of the all-seeing eye of Sauron, or the Panopticon, right? And it's literally built by engineers, because the people who build the Tower of Babel in the biblical accounts are the descendants of the people who build cities and machines, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So they're aiming at the wrong goal, right? And they build this... massive machine that's dedicated to the wrong ideal. And the immediate consequence of that is that words lose their meaning and everyone is at odds with one another. And we've got this problem, right? We've built this new power of Babel, which is this interconnected world, which is biologically revolutionary, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
What happens when everyone's immediately connected? Well, maybe bad ideas spread 50 times faster than good ideas. Like we have no idea, right? Maybe the psychopaths are unleashed. And maybe there's an infinite possibility to educate everyone. Like there's a lot of things on the table, but we have no idea what we're doing. And it's certainly the case that
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
words in many ways have lost their meaning. We've talked about exactly that. We can't assume that we're referring to the same thing no matter what we talk about. And so you see in China, of course, they're much farther along the totalitarian road than we are. Maybe we won't go down that road, but 600 million CCTV cameras Right. Which is about one for every two people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And they can do perfect face recognition. But if you cover your face, they can recognize you with unerring accuracy merely by gate. Every bloody thing you do is tracked.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And that's certainly a road we could walk down. I mean, you go into an airport now and before you board a plane, your picture is taken. Now you can opt out. For now, and the gates are increasingly automated, which is all well and good and convenient when the goddamn thing's open, but pretty rough on you if they don't, because then what? We're going to talk, what are you going to do?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Talk to the gate? Yeah. Seems unlikely. And so, I mean, it's easy even to point to the political... The hypothetical political causes of this, it's the progressive left. It's like, yeah, partly. But it's certainly partly the fact that we don't know what the hell we're doing in this interconnected world.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, it also blew Christendom apart, right? Because you had the massive... Right. what, altercations between the Protestants and the Catholics as a direct consequence of the printing press.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, it also meant eventually that the entire world was made literate.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, it depends on how we conduct ourselves. Like if you guys move to Phoenix and you start your entertainment consortium and you start making comedy that can actually be viewed by people and that's genuinely funny and free. then you're going to tilt the world a little farther away from the all-seeing eye of Sauron and the Tower of Babel and towards something approximating freedom.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You can use the Tower of Babel, although the EEC has already managed that, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, sure, because the attack doesn't come from the position you expect, not if it's going to be effective.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Or the one who wants to appear well-intentioned in the moment with no further thought or effort. They're all religious hypocrites fundamentally.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, I have less sympathy for those people, I would say too, because the problem I have with them, and I think Keir Starmer, certainly Justin Trudeau fits into this category, is they want the moral approbation for being good people without doing the work. It's actually really hard to be a good person.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You have to work at it all the time and against your, what would you say, alternative inclinations. So I want to tell you another story that's relevant to your venture here in the United States, too. So... There's a story in the biblical texts in the story of Abraham that has to do with the probability that a city will be destroyed for ethical impropriety.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And cities are destroyed for ethical impropriety all the time, right? They go to hell in a handbasket and then all hell breaks loose and that's the end of that. That happens all the time. Sodom. Well, this is the story. Angels of God visit Abraham or God, it's ambivalent in the story, and they tell Abraham that Sodom and Gomorrah are going to be destroyed in totality.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
The world's most famous TERF? Yeah, absolutely. Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist, right? Yeah. That's the acronym of the day?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And Abraham says, that's not fair. What if there's good people there? And God or the angels say, I don't think there are. And Abraham says, well, what if I can go to the city and find 50? And God says, you find 50, no problem. And Abraham, who's a stubborn bastard says, well, what if there's 40? And God says, You know, you're pushing your luck. And I think Abraham gets him down to 10.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And it's a fascinating story because this is what I think it means. And this is also why I think your venture is so crucially important. And I also think this is relevant on the day after Jay Bhattacharya was elected to head the NHS after being an outsider and, what would you say, cancelled.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
The moral of that story is if there's 10 people in a city that are still willing to tell the truth, the city won't be destroyed. And I believe that's true because I think the truth is so powerful that if a culture hasn't become so totalitarian that everyone is silenced, there's still hope. And I do think there's still hope in the West.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And the fact that you guys can come here to Phoenix, right, home of the... home of rebirth, so to speak.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And you can do your thing. You can do what comedians have always done, which is to tell the truth. And God only knows what the consequence of that will be. More than, possibly more than you think.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It's possibly, there's a reason stand-up comedy is... so entertaining and so popular. It's possible because it's possible that it's because it's really necessary. It's really necessary for you to be allowed to be funny because one of the things that's so cool about comedy is that people don't laugh on purpose. Right? You can't You can pretty much tell when someone laughs falsely.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And so it's actually a form of spontaneous honesty. It's pre-conscious. That's very interesting. Yeah, it's very interesting.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Aren't we good guys?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, that's the thing. It's even better than the best kind of laughter is when you're ashamed of yourself for laughing. Or for saying it. It's like, oh my God, I can't believe I said that. But it was like necessary.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, that's right.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Montreal, too, by the way. Really? Yeah, horrible. Oh, God, yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, that kind of feminism.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, that's the reestablishment of a consensus of truth. Like, you know, you notice that it's much harder to make 10 people laugh in a crowd if there's only 10 than 1,000, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And so there's something about the anonymity of a crowd, but there's also something about the fact that when everyone laughs together, it's the establishment of a new consensus of the previously unspoken based on the self-evident truth because everyone wouldn't be laughing if it wasn't true, right? It has to... and if that wasn't a true response. And it's also sudden and uncontrollable.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You know, there's another weird thing about laughter. I used to do this as a joke with a couple of my friends when we were lifting weights in the gym, because if you make someone laugh when they're in the middle of a bench press, They'll drop the weight on your chest. You'll kill them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, you lose all your muscular control when you laugh, which is also extremely interesting because it means that in the moment of laughter, you render yourself defenseless and vulnerable, which is also extremely interesting, right? Especially because it's also intensely pleasurable.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And I started saying… Especially fetishistic men? Yeah. Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It provides an avenue to success for absolutely mediocre people. Right, yeah. right? And then they can say two things. I'm just as funny as Graham Linehan, for example, plus I'm definitely morally superior.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Especially those kind. Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I can answer that, I do.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I know, I know. It's a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. You never want to underestimate the, what would you say, the attractiveness of unearned moral virtue. Like in the gospel accounts, for example, The people who end up crucifying Christ are the Pharisees, right? It's Pharisees, that's religious hypocrites. Those are the people who are claiming to be good when they're not.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It's the scribes, those are the academics, right? Who use truth in the service of their own self-interest, and the lawyers, and they're the ones who use legalism as an alternative to morality. That proclivity has been around forever. The temptation of... See, one of the commandments is do not use the name of God in vain. And everyone thinks that means don't swear. That isn't what it means.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It means don't claim to be doing the work of the divine when you're pursuing your own self-interest. And it's really necessary to understand that that's a temptation. You know, so for example, when I said, just get the damn vaccine, Now, was I being good or was I signaling a kind of moral virtue? And I would say, I think I wasn't being good at all in that situation.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think I was signaling a form of moral virtue. It's like, come on, all the sensible people like me are going to do this. And you can tell that in consequence of the fact that I've already done it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, they're also no more interesting than anyone else's opinions. Absolutely. You know, I went and saw John Cleese, who, like, I love John Cleese. He was like a savior to me in my adolescence. All of my friends were John Cleese freaks, you know, and he's so funny. And I went and saw his live show five years ago, and he talked about making life of Brian and about –
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, all the great movies they made. And that was so interesting. And then he talked about Trump, which was like not interesting. It was like listening to your neighbor talk about Trump. And it's, it's, it's, well. I suppose that's another one of the cataclysmic problems of this interconnectedness.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, can you imagine having that problem when you're a teenager? Yes. And having that follow you for the rest of your life?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, part of the problem here might be, and I've certainly had this problem on Twitter, it's like, Twitter is like talking to your friends or your roommates in college, except that it's not. Because it goes out to millions of people. So it's like seriously not that, even though it feels like that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And so, you know, maybe one of the rules with X, for example, or social media in general, is if you play with fire, you're going to be burned. And you're playing with fire whether the match is hot or not on social media. You know, my son has told me, he said, Dad, you have to remember when you're on X that you're actually publishing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And it's certainly the case that I spend a lot less time on any given tweet than I would on any sentence that's in one of my books.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And anger will certainly, anger will certainly motivate that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It's a power game now.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It's hard to be aware of it though.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Because you just have to go click and away you go. You know, it's like there's no lag. It's just not the forum.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
It's set up to incentivize impulsive behavior. We have no idea. Impulsive behavior is a bad medium to long-term strategy, and that's the sine qua non of Twitter. And so it just might be a game that degenerates as you play it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
kind of discord and arguments i just don't look at that tab i look at the things that i'm following yeah i also don't look at it it's because it's too pathological yeah like it just aggregates bad actors well they're trying to no one knows what to do with twitter like and they're so i have to ask you another question because my daughter won't forgive me if i don't okay and there are other reasons too you taught a course for peterson academy i did
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, we only invite people to participate who we want to hear from. And so this is something I definitely learned in academia. It's like, once you have the right person, leave them the hell alone. And if they're not the right person, then fire them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, well, I've often thought that, you know, when people are no longer, what would you say, cynical and evil enough to be greedy, we're really, really in trouble. That's right. Definitely, definitely.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Right. And for me, Shakespeare... And more lasting enthusiasms, hopefully.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I'm morally superior to Shakespeare.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Can you imagine a temptation more profound than the one that would allow you to be morally superior to the great geniuses of history just because you hold the... the same cost-free political opinions. I mean, that is a good deal.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I can barely tolerate going to museums now because you have a masterpiece and then an explanation by someone whose subtext is how they're morally superior to this person who's so outstanding that it's shitting them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You need to know these stories because they're the stories that are fundamentally about you and about everybody that you know and about how society is structured and our relationship with nature and... the divine. So come to the tour, pick up the book if you're inclined. Today, I had a chance to speak with Andrew Doyle, with whom I've spoken before. We've been in touch for a number of years now.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, they are anyway. That's what I mean. The other thing that happens, of course, is that as soon as the theatrical presentation becomes woke, no one watches it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And then... All the activists say, well, obviously Shakespeare is passé because no one's paying any attention to him anymore.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, no, in the UK, I mean... Oh, it's increasingly the case in classical music and everywhere in the arts world. and theatrical productions all across the United States. I think 50% of the theaters now in the United States are, the prophecy is that they'll go broke within the next two years. And it's like, the problem with propaganda is no one wants to watch it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, I want to just get the story exactly straight so everyone knows. Yeah. Were you the most successful sitcom writer in the UK? Is that a reasonable statement? Or in the top five? Like, what do you think's fair?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah. Was he old? Hopefully. Another old white man.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, and Cleese also had trouble with part of the life of Brian, because there's a character in it, I think, is it Chapman? Oh, Loretta. Yeah, Loretta, right. Which is a very funny part of the movie, which is also a very, very funny movie. But yeah, he decides that he's a man or a woman, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Okay. Definitely that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Oh, no. Oh, you know. Well, I've spoken to him about it. Me too. And I know that... They had trouble with that when they were bringing the play on stage.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, how much artistic genius emerged in the Soviet Union?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, well, none. That's pushing it, but virtually none.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Right, right. The tallest midget in the world. Right, right. And so, okay, now, and you said you had three extremely famous sitcoms, one of which was Father Ted. What were the other two?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
You know, I collected Russian realist art from the 20th century, a lot of it. I have like 500 pieces of it. And I looked at tens of thousands of paintings from the Soviet Union. A lot of it rough impressionism. It wasn't exactly realism. And many of the pieces I got are spectacular from an artistic and technical perspective, even though to some degree they're subordinated to propaganda.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
But what was really cool about having the pieces around is that as we recede from the propagandistic milieu of the work, the art shines through. And in 100 years, these will just be pieces of art. There'll be no propaganda left in them at all.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, we should probably stop with this. Yes, sorry. I know I'm very happy about it. I mean, one of the things, and this is very much worth considering, no doubt you gentlemen have already considered it, but, you know, the way that you circumvent the propagandists isn't by explicit political statement. You do it by story.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Tell a great story. And if a story is great, it isn't subservient to propaganda because that would destroy the greatness. And there isn't anything that's more destructive to propagandistic totalitarianism than greatness.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
This is why I'm so excited, partly why I wanted to invite you on the show too. I'm so excited that you've come to Phoenix and that you're starting this new enterprise and that you found each other because God only knows what you could accomplish and who knows what the consequence of actually producing some things that are genuinely funny might be again. It's not like there's not a market for it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I mean, Rogan's Comedy Club in Austin is just thriving and he's fostering a whole new generation of comedians who will say anything as long as it's funny. You know, and they don't allow cell phones in the crowd. You can't record any of it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And so people go, and it's such a fun place to go because everyone knows that there's trouble afoot and that all sorts of things that can't be said will definitely be said.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, maybe that's what's happening. I think that's happening already because there's so many things that are happening even within the Trump administration that are comic overcorrections, right? It's like, really? They appointed him? That's the maximally possible, that's the maximally comical possible outcome, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So, all right, gentlemen, we should probably stop on this side. So thank you very much for coming in to talk to me. We'll meet again, I suspect, on the podcast, especially once you guys get up and rolling, because everyone's going to want to know just exactly what the hell. Oh, yeah, we've done.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
They have all sorts of plans, which we didn't discuss today because it's a little bit premature to announce them. But those announcements will be coming soon. Thank you to everybody watching and listening on the YouTube side and to the Scottsdale crew here for making this possible and also for putting this together on relatively short order because we decided to do this podcast, what, yesterday?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah. The three of us anyways, and so that worked out extremely well. And we're going to continue on the Daily Wire side. I think probably what we'll do there is delve a little bit more into the ugly underbelly of totalitarian wokeness, especially...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I think especially in the UK and in Europe, because a correction has obviously already occurred in the United States, and God willing, that will actually have some teeth, and we'll see what happens. And in Canada, Trudeau's days are... absolutely numbered. There isn't a chance that he's going to survive beyond next October.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Now, he'll be able to do a lot of damage in the intervening year, but he's pretty much done. But Europe is in rough shape and the UK, they're in rough shape. And so I think we'll turn our attention on the Daily Wire side to a discussion of that situation and also what might be done about it that would be practical and useful. So join us for that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
So I always had my ear to... The Jeffersons, or all in the family, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Kind of on the cutting edge of social inquiry. Those were extremely well-timed.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
I know, it's like 90-year-old people use that phrase. Yeah, exactly.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
That's quite a string of hits. Yeah. Okay, so now what exactly did you do that was so unforgivable and when?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Yeah, well, that's when things really went insane.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, he said, they're after you. I'm just in the way. There's some real truth in that. Absolutely, 100%. It became quite a famous statement during this election cycle. Yeah, it appealed to a lot of... Well, a lot of megatypes and a lot of people who had been cancelled unexpectedly by their friends and compatriots.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Andrew's a comedian in the UK. The infamous creator of Titania McGrath, who was one of the most effective characters ever devised to satirize the woke left, and Andrew's been at that for a very long time. So we spent a fair bit of time discussing what he's up to as an immigrant to Phoenix.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
In a manner you would not want to imagine ever, even in your darkest nightmares.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, no psychopaths would pretend to be women just to get access to women. They're not that sort of people, you know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Or complain about the fact that the bigots are using eyeshadow as a marker of gender, and that's not fair. Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
They did a... And the cost of standing up is high. Of course, the cost of not standing up is higher, but it is understandable why people... You can understand why people choose to remain silent. That doesn't excuse it, but you can't understand it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Well, you can understand ever since COVID, ever since all this cancellation, you can understand exactly what happened in Germany. And I think they actually had far more excuse because it was a lot easier to make sure people didn't know what the hell was going on when everyone wasn't connected to everything all the time.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
Plus, I would also say that the crimes that the Nazis were undertaking were of sufficient magnitude so that it's not surprising that people didn't believe they were happening. I mean, you know, what's his name, Michael Schellenberger, when he broke the WPATH files, he told me that he had listened to the conversation I had with Abigail Schreier, which was a very early conversation on that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
And along with Andrew, I spoke with Graham Linehan, who is joining Andrew in the establishment of a new entertainment enterprise in Phoenix with Rob Schneider and some other people. Their hope is that they can actually do some things that would be funny. And that would be a lovely thing to see since humor is in short supply in the woke totalitarian world that we inhabit now.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
506. Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan
child mutilation and sterilization front. And he said that his response, you know, and he's liberal in his orientation fundamentally, was that there was no way that that could be happening. And then, you know, two years later, well, he investigated it in great detail and came to the conclusion that Yeah, in fact, it was happening.