Andrea Hsu
Appearances
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
Well, there is a lot of distress. You know, I'm hearing from federal employees from all over the country, actually, who have never seen anything like this. You know, a number of people have described it as a hostile takeover, a coup by someone that they say, you know, we didn't elect. They see a lot of this as Elon Musk's doing.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
Of course, you know, he's the Tesla founder who's now advising President Trump. And, you know, a lot of these people, they went into government jobs because they wanted to serve the American people. They're doing critical work, things like serving our veterans or bringing innovation to agriculture or getting small businesses off the ground.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
You know, one person wrote to me, we are hardworking, patriotic people. Another person said, you know, please help tell our stories so that the country can see that we are not enemies and we're not political actors. We vote both red and blue. And this person went on to say, we're regular people trying to figure out how we're going to survive.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
And, Andrea, you know, the effects of what's happening go beyond government. You know, the spending freezes that the administration has implemented affect nonprofits, government contractors. So there are people all over the country who are feeling the effects of what's happening.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
Yeah, a lot of them are writing and say, please, please don't mention my name. People are incredibly fearful. They are fearful of losing their jobs. They're fearful of death. you know, somehow being retaliated against by this administration. I was able to talk to some people last week at a rally that was held right outside the U.S. Capitol. It was organized by labor groups.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
So there are federal workers who also have elected positions within their labor unions, and they feel somewhat protected speaking in that capacity. And one person I met is Sharia Smith. She's an attorney with the Department of Education, and she's also president of the That's the union that represents about 2,800 Education Department employees. And here's what Sharia Smith said.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
This was before the layoffs began.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
And, Andrew, the services she's talking about, you know, the Department of Education has people who help with things like financial aid and special education. And, you know, recent hires in those departments were among dozens of probationary employees that we heard had gotten laid off last week. And Smith herself is an attorney in the Office of Civil Rights.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
That's the office that makes sure that students from elementary school all the way up into college, they get the educational accommodations that they are entitled to under the law. So Sheree Smith is really worried that if this downsizing continues, she's worried about what's going to happen to the families who need help.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
Yeah, you know, she is really worried if it's going to continue. She's even said there's talk about moving the Education Department's Office of Civil Rights to the Justice Department. So she wonders if regular people will still have the ability to take their complaints to someone in the government.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
And yeah, and she says that dozens of people in her office, in the Office of Civil Rights, were put on paid administrative leave already. after Trump signed that executive order banning DEI programs in the federal government. She says these were people just doing their regular jobs, not running any kind of DEI specific initiative.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
Yeah, that is also underway, and it's also like all of this quite chaotic. Some employees have been given dates to return to the office. Others, including people who have been fully remote, have been told they need to go back to an office, but where is still unclear. Okay.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
A number of federal workers who are covered by unions, by their collective bargaining agreements, you know, they do have telework policies written into these contracts. And at first it seemed like the Trump administration was going to honor those.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
But then the administration released this new memo saying, well, agencies have the right to set telework policies and those collective bargaining agreements will not be enforced. Hmm. So the unions are preparing to fight this. I talked with Rich Couture. He's president of AFGE Council 215. That's the union representing workers at the Social Security Administration.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
You know, they just signed a five-year contract right before Thanksgiving that had a pretty generous telework agreement in it. And, you know, Couture says if that's not going to be honored, people are going to leave. They know this because they did surveys around telework, you know, while they were negotiating that contract.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
And I pressed him a little bit on this, Andrew, because, you know, you always hear members of Congress complain that Americans aren't getting good service, you know, for things like Social Security because people aren't showing up in the office. And Rich Couture said, you know, actually, they have seen improved productivity with some of these telework policies in place.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
And he says, besides, you know, the people who are teleworking, they're not the ones who provide the face-to-face service anyway. He gave an example of the people who answer phones.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
So he's worried that this light speed downsizing of the government could lead to a collapse of their ability to serve the public. And he's also really worried about what he calls the real possibility of workers at the Social Security Administration being replaced by artificial intelligence. Yeah.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
Yeah, I would say very, very few. I have had people say, like you said, you know, there are systems that don't work as well as they should. Things could be more efficient. Maybe there are some people who aren't being utilized to their potential. But they also say there's a way to downsize the government, and that's not what we're seeing now. You know, people point to President Clinton.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
He oversaw a significant downsizing of the federal workforce, but it took place over years and it involved, you know, studies to figure out where the cuts could be made. Right now, everything feels like it's happening on the fly. You know, Trump has been in the White House not even a month yet. And this has just been so unsettling. I'll end with one more person I met at that rally, Aaron Barker.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
He's with the Transportation Safety Administration, and he's also president of the AFG Local 554, which represents TSA officers at the Atlanta airport. You know, he told me his members are losing sleep over everything that's happening. They're worried about their jobs, their families. You know, they're worried about will they be able to get the government services they rely on.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
These are the people that are running the security checkpoints at the airport, so probably not the people you want distracted by everything going on. So, you know, Aaron Barker had this request.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
You know, a lot of people might hear federal workers and think Washington, D.C., but actually 80 percent of federal workers work outside the Washington, D.C. area. So chances are pretty good that, you know, everyone listening might know someone who's a federal worker, someone in your community or at your church or maybe it's your neighbor.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
And so these are all people who are going through a lot right now.
Consider This from NPR
After weeks of chaos, the future is uncertain for thousands of federal workers
Thank you, Andrew.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 11-12-2024 7PM EST
Some two million civilians work for the federal government in all kinds of roles, national security, public health, protecting the environment. Trump insists among them are rogue actors whom he wants to replace. Already, a conservative group has published a watch list of what it calls subversive leftist bureaucrats who cannot be trusted to enforce immigration laws.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 11-12-2024 7PM EST
Jason Breifel is policy director for the Senior Executives Association, which represents the highest ranking civil servants.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 11-12-2024 7PM EST
Trump is expected to revisit a previous effort to eliminate protections for federal employees in policy-related positions. Andrea Hsu, NPR News.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 02-12-2025 8PM EST
The Trump administration had given workers a choice. They could offer their resignations now in exchange for pay and benefits through the end of September. The expectation was they'd be on leave most of that time. Or they could remain in their positions and risk being laid off as Trump downsizes the federal workforce.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 02-12-2025 8PM EST
Labor unions representing civil servants asked the court to block the offer, calling it unlawful. U.S. District Judge George O'Toole declined that request, finding that the unions didn't have standing to bring the case because they are not directly affected. He did not rule on the legality of the deferred resignation program. The unions called the ruling a setback, but not the end of the fight.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 02-06-2025 3PM EST
U.S. District Judge George O'Toole paused the resignation offer until Monday, granting a request from unions representing federal employees. O'Toole said the court had just received a brief from the government and gave the unions until Friday to respond.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 02-06-2025 3PM EST
He also ordered the government to notify employees of this change by the end of today and scheduled another hearing for Monday afternoon when he will hear the merits of the case. The labor unions are arguing that the deferred resignation offer is arbitrary, capricious, and unlawful.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 02-06-2025 3PM EST
Already tens of thousands of federal workers have accepted the administration's offer to resign now and keep their pay and benefits through the end of September. Andrea Hsu, NPR News.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 04-03-2025 5PM EDT
Stellantis says it's pausing operations at two assembly plants. in Canada and Mexico starting Monday. Those plants make the Chrysler Pacifica minivan, the Jeep Compass SUV, and a couple EVs. As part of a ripple effect, some 900 workers at U.S. plants that make components for those vehicles will be temporarily laid off.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 04-03-2025 5PM EDT
The Canadian plant is expected to be idled for two weeks, the plant in Mexico for the rest of the month. In an email to employees, Stellantis' chief operating officer for North America, Antonio Filosa, wrote, quote, the current environment creates uncertainty. The company says it will continue to monitor the situation to assess whether further action is required. Andrea Hsu, NPR News.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 03-08-2025 4PM EST
The Democratic attorneys general argue that federal agencies falsely told probationary employees they were being fired because of their performance. In fact, the states argue the agencies were trying to shrink their headcount, but they failed to follow proper procedures for doing so.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 03-08-2025 4PM EST
Federal law requires agencies to notify states when laying off 50 or more people so that states can jump into action and try to prevent instability throughout the economic region. States are required to reach out to those losing their jobs and provide support with the goal of reducing their reliance on public assistance. The states have asked federal court to reinstate the workers.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 03-24-2025 5PM EDT
The ruling in question came from U.S. District Judge William Alsup. He ordered six federal agencies to reinstate the probationary employees they'd fired since mid-February after finding that the Office of Personnel Management unlawfully directed the agencies to carry out the firings.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 03-24-2025 5PM EDT
The Trump administration maintains that agencies carried out the firings on their own, a claim Judge Alsop says he doesn't believe. The government appealed Alsop's ruling to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which declined the government's request for emergency relief.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 03-24-2025 5PM EDT
Now the government has asked the Supreme Court for relief, charging that Alsop's ruling, quote, inflicts intolerable harm on the functioning of the executive branch. Andrea Hsu, NPR News.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 10-11-2024 6PM EDT
The layoffs in Warren, Michigan, come as Stellantis ends production of the Ram 1500 Classic truck, which has been discontinued. The cuts were first announced in August, around the same time the company said it was delaying plans to reopen an idle plant in Belvedere, Illinois. a key promise made in contract negotiations last year.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 10-11-2024 6PM EDT
The United Auto Workers Union has threatened to strike over the delay, blaming Stellantis for what it calls gross mismanagement. The automaker says a strike would be illegal, maintaining that market volatility and a slow adoption of EVs led to a shift in plans. As Stellantis grapples with declining sales, the company says it will be implementing layoffs across its footprint. Andrea Hsu, NPR News.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
Yeah, well, in short, the system set up to hear federal employee complaints about things that happened to them on the job worked. You know, tens of thousands of probationary employees have been fired since last month. These are people typically in their first or second year on the job. And some of them filed complaints with the Office of Special Counsel.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
That's the watchdog agency set up to investigate such complaints. And their investigation into the USDA found a pattern. You know, nearly 6,000 people got basically the same letter telling them that they were being fired because of their performance.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
No, I mean, A, in fact, many of them had excellent performance reviews. Investigators found the agency didn't even look at their performance, which is a requirement if you're going to fire workers during the probationary period in the federal government.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
Instead, the special counsel said the firings appeared to be part of an attempt to shrink the government, which administrations can do, but they have to go through a bunch of procedures, including giving people cigarettes. 60 days notice, which the USDA did not do.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
Now, the Merit Systems Protection Board reviewed the findings so far, and the board chair concluded, yes, these firings probably were unlawful, and she ordered the USDA to bring back their probationary workers for 45 days so the investigation can continue. But then last night, there was yet another twist in this case.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
The special counsel, Hampton Dellinger, who was leading the investigation, was removed from his position for the second time. President Trump first tried to fire him about a month ago. A U.S. district judge reinstated him, but now an appeals court has removed him once again while it considers the arguments in his case.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
Yeah, it's not entirely clear. We know that Dellinger had evidence that what happened at USDA had happened at other agencies. In fact, yesterday, he issued a statement urging all agencies to go ahead and reinstate their probationary employees voluntarily and not wait for an order. Now, his removal doesn't change the board's order to USDA to give those nearly 6,000 workers their jobs back.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
But of course, it's one agency and it's a temporary stay. Okay.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
Well, they're not exactly celebrating. I spoke with Michelle Kirchner, an entomologist who was helping alfalfa growers manage pests when she was fired last month. And here's what she said.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
But she says it's impossible to have any confidence in what's going to happen in the long term. The Trump administration has made clear it wants to dramatically shrink the federal government. So she thinks maybe they'll all be brought back only to be fired again.
Up First from NPR
EU Leaders On Ukraine, Auto Tariffs Paused, USDA Workers Return
Well, they maintain that they've done nothing illegal. They've made this case in federal court where there's a lawsuit over probationary firings. And there's another hearing next week. And meanwhile, the administration is moving forward with much deeper cuts to federal agencies that will affect career employees, longtime employees. So a lot more uncertainty is ahead.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
Yeah, well, last night we were hearing it was more than 40,000 or about 2% of the federal workforce and growing. Now, A, remember this offer to resign by today and still keep your pay and benefits until the end of September? It's gone out to more than 2 million federal employees, including people in the VA and the FDA, the Department of Education, even the CIA.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
So you can imagine these numbers could climb. But that said, a lot of people seem to be wary. I met a federal employee, David Casserly, at a rally outside the Labor Department. He's worked there for three and a half years. And I asked him if he's considered resigning. And here's what he said.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
And I've also heard that people who have been fully remote and can't or don't want to comply with Trump's demand that all federal workers return to the office full time, that they are also considering taking this deal.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
Well, it's really hard to answer that with any precision because so many different versions of the deal have been sent out since last week. So the first email that went out nine days ago only said that people who agree to resign now don't have to comply with the return to office orders. Many people took that to mean they'd still have to work, but they could work from home.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
But then soon after, the Office of Personnel Management put out an FAQ that said, no, no, you're not expected to work at all and you'll still get paid. And then this week, agencies sent out these sample contract agreements that changed the script again and said, actually, you do have to work through the end of February.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
And A, you know, these sample agreements also had a lot of legalese that said things like, by accepting the seal, you're waiving your right to any action against the government if things don't go how you expected.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
Well, as mentioned, several unions that represent federal employees have sued, saying the offer isn't legal. They've asked a federal court in Boston to halt this whole thing until the government comes up with a policy that is lawful. And there's a hearing today at 1, so we'll know more later today.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
One thing that the unions have pointed out is that federal agencies are only funded through March 14th, and there's a law that says agencies can't obligate funds that Congress hasn't yet approved. So unions and attorneys have been warning those who take the offer that there's no guarantee that they'll get the money that's been promised.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
Well, from the start, they've been told their jobs are not guaranteed and there are going to be significant changes. Agencies are going to be downsized. There are going to be layoffs. Everyone has to come into the office. It's really reminiscent of Elon Musk's resignation offer to Twitter employees, which was also titled Fork in the Road.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
The message to them back then was, if you stay, you'll need to be extremely hardcore. Here, federal workers have been told we're going to insist on excellence and we expect you to be loyal. But there is a really big difference between this, the government, and Twitter. Federal employees take an oath to be loyal to the U.S. Constitution, not to a particular president or administration.
Up First from NPR
Deadline For Federal Workers, Reaction To Trump's Gaza Plan, Future Of US Foreign Aid
You're welcome.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Thanks for having me.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Yeah, well, for several reasons. First, because the original request did not come from their managers. It came from the Office of Personnel Management at the direction of Elon Musk. And, you know, he has said this was his idea. And these emails hit in boxes over the weekends while most people were off, you know, trying to relax.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Now, the people I spoke with at the VA, they are mental health professionals. They help veterans with things like depression and PTSD, combat trauma, sexual trauma. And they say the government already closely tracks what they do.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Supervisors can run reports on how many patients they see, how many phone calls they make, what time those interactions start and stop, what topics are discussed and so on. So they don't know why an additional weekly email is necessary. And one psychologist I spoke with described the what did you do last week emails in pretty stark terms.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
She said they're like flashbang grenades meant to discombobulate federal workers. And NPR agreed not to identify her or others at the VA by name because they're scared they'll lose their jobs for speaking out.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Yeah, they did because the VA told them they should respond. And in fact, they told me it's not hard writing down, you know, a few things about what they did, a few sentences about what they did. But they do see it as just one more thing getting in the way of their work, which is helping veterans deal with these really tough problems.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
And it's coming at a time when there's been so much upheaval in the federal government. You know, the VA this week announced deep cuts ahead. And a psychologist I talked to said patients are themselves worried. She has patients asking her, are you going to be here next week or next month? And she says she's spending a lot of time calming their nerves instead of focusing on their treatments.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Yeah. Well, I spoke with a Harvard Business School professor about this. Her name is Amy Edmondson, and she's a social psychologist. She says you have to think about the context when you consider the impact of these emails that originated with Elon Musk.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
And the people I talk to, Scott, say they're doing the best they can to keep it together for their patients. But one psychiatrist told me she's anxious and irritable and she finds herself doing things like doom scrolling the Internet, which she knows is not good. In fact, it's something she tells her own patients not to do.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Well, we asked the White House to comment on what we've heard from these VA employees and we haven't heard back. We do know that President Trump supports Elon Musk's effort to gather these weekly responses. The president has repeatedly said there are some workers in the federal government who aren't doing a good job and shouldn't be there.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Now, we don't know what the administration is doing with these responses. Some have speculated they're using AI to analyze them. But to what end is not clear. The administration has told agencies to collect the information and decide how to deal with people who don't respond.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Yeah, but they tell me they really don't want to. They love their work. They know they can make more money in private practice. But one psychologist told me she felt a call to duty to serve those who have served the country. And she said, I'm not a quitter. I won't be bullied into quitting. She plans to stay as long as she can.
Up First from NPR
Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID
Thanks, Scott.