Amy Griffin
Appearances
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
What's so beautiful is this recognition that I didn't know I was going to come to throughout the book. of the telling, of the permission that first I gave myself.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Ooh, emotional, very emotional. I have to go back to that word permission again, because going in and making this decision that I was going to go in and address things that I knew I needed to address.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I said to this amazing woman, and I want to just also say when I said that so many things in my life were lining up, you know, we sit here and we talk about this relationship of trust that you have with one other person, how important that is. The telling is that there was an inherent trust, not also in the medicine. I didn't know the medicine. I didn't understand psychedelic-assisted therapy.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I understood what it was. I knew it was a burgeoning field, and I felt compelled to go and do this. I do think that there was sort of divine intervention around me as I went in for this process. And I had a very good friend who I'd seen, who I said to her, what is going on with you? Something's different.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And it was right around the time where I decided to go in, and I think that that was one of the catalysts to say, oh, you know what? I see a change in her, and I can have that change for myself too. I can have that same inner peace or whatever it is that she has. And so that sort of set me over the edge to go in and have the experience. And...
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But I want to say the woman that I worked with also set the stage. And that trust, again, in the telling was knowing that I had the safety of someone who, when I went in, I took the pill. I put the eye shades on. I took the pill. And I had this inherent trust in the woman that was in the room with me. And...
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
You know, it's something that it's the story and the story that I go through in the book is this crazy up and down. I feel like it's this thriller, but then I look back and it's my life. And it's really hard because it's this story that goes all over the place, sideways sometimes, up and down, but that's what it was.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And within, you know, five, 10 minutes of taking the pill, I turned to the woman I was sitting with and I said, You know, why is he here? And I said, I'm ready to tell you everything. And that was the beginning of telling myself and being honest about my life. And even as I sit here with you right now, it's so freeing. It's still hard.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But the minute that I said it, the minute I said, this is what went on, I was no longer beholden to the secret. And the secret was never mine to begin with. And it was like I felt that in that exact moment when I said, this is what happened.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
There was flamenco music playing in the background. I remember exactly what it was. And I remember the speaker in the side of the room and I knew where the music was coming from.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Like, did it feel like a release? It felt like I was finally coming home to myself.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
It was all there. It was all there. And what I said was, I said to the woman I was working with, how long does this take before it works? Because before I said anything, how long does this whole thing take? I wanted control. I wanted to know, tell me what's going to happen. Give me a playbook. I'll play by the rules. I'll make it perfect. I'll do this.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And that was the moment where I realized there was no perfect. This was about me. And I got to have this moment for myself. And I turned inwards and I just said, she said, it'll take a while. Just settle in and relax and take some deep breaths. And I said, you know, no, I'm ready to go. And I think that was also really powerful for me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I've done a lot of work around the idea that this was five minutes in. And I've been told by my doctor that I've worked with for many years, Amy, this wasn't the drug. This wasn't the drug. This was you. And I think I've tried very hard to make sure that I don't give the drug too much credit because that would be doing myself a disservice. I can say I was really vulnerable then.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I was very vulnerable. And I'm so proud of that word. I think vulnerable should be the new word for power, right? Think about our world that we're living in right now. If everything was a bit more vulnerable, right?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
It was... Every fiber of my being knew the movements of this person, the arm fold, the way this person walked, the way that I both trusted and was fearful of this person. And I was able to both be in my adult brain and recognize how I had missed and not connected the dots of what had gone on in my childhood. Because as a child, those things were too difficult to comprehend.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Those things were actions and words and body parts that I had never heard of. And they were too complex. And so I recognized and immediately, had such deep compassion for that other me, for that younger me. Like right in that moment, it was almost like I'd split myself in two halves and I connected myself again. I reconnected to myself.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And sometimes I think of it like a Mr. Potato Head, I guess you could say. I think of like a piece of my brain snapping in and reconnecting. And then there was this immense feeling of power within myself, not power from anyone else, this gratitude and power that I was doing something that was the most authentic thing kernel of who I was. And also this reason for knowing why I'm here.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Yes, and then I very quickly had... Not to gloss over that. Yes. Just take that in. But then I had so many memories of... That I have... I had daily, every day of my life. Of this person telling me I was a leader. And I think it's really interesting. The life that I've built... then inherently I am a leader.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I look back when I turned to my friend, my best friend, and I said, I'm going to run for student council president. And I said, but girls don't win. I know that. Maybe I should run for secretary because I'm a good worker bee. I can take the notes. And I didn't win. But to then be told, I'm sorry, I mean, you didn't win, but you are the real leader of this school.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Yeah.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But don't you see, he played into the most authentic part of myself. And it was only in me being able to go back and in time and recognize that reconnection with that's okay. I am a leader. I know that about myself. And now I can really be the leader that the world, that I need to go out and be for others.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And so that's where there's this joy, compassion, gratitude, all the feelings that I keep going back to that I have now in that there is purpose in this. I don't know why it happened. I wish it hadn't happened. There are so many people who I know have probably suffered far worse than I have. And there are people that have suffered things that I don't think that they will think matter.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I want to say it does. Not what happened to me, but there are little things. And that's where, I mean, hundreds of people in my life before the book has even come out have come to me to say, you know,
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I never really acknowledged X thing happening in any capacity in their life and saying, I really reframed that and I thought about it and now I processed it and I either went to the person or I decided I didn't need to go to the person, but I dealt with it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Well, let me just also have a gratitude moment for my parents. Because you're right, my life could have turned out very differently.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Thank you so much. Thank you for that lovely, lovely introduction. It's sometimes hard to hear. And I'm really, really honored to be here and grateful that you're having this conversation with me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Well, let me just also have a gratitude moment for my parents. Because you're right, my life could have turned out very differently. And I think it's so important as parents, for every parent watching this and listening to this, that my parents did everything right. Everything right. They were incredible humans.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
The telling of this to them, which was part of the story, in some ways, again, the secret... of all of this from the people that are closest to you is the hardest part of the story, right? The memories of everything that happened to me are one thing. I am so proud of myself for the fact that I just survived it and lived it. So you say how did it impact me?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
There are moments when I think about how I was driving recently I was driving in the countryside and I kind of got lost. And then I realized I wasn't in GPS rate. I mean, my phone wasn't working. And so I was taking a picture of a mailbox to try to find my way home. And I, for the first time, started laughing. And I kind of was turning the car around. I was getting lost.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And then I looked out and I kept driving. And I thought, you know, I'm visiting. I'm doing all the things in my life. I'm going to the places that I think I escaped to in my brain when everything was happening to me. Because inherently, I wanted to go on and be and see and do and create and be a part of things.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I realized, oh, these vistas, these views, these places that I'm seeing now and this life that I built, this is the manifestation of all the things that I was doing in my brain when horrible things were happening to me that I had to leave. And
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
The profound gratitude I have for my parents in saying, like, which path could I have taken, a divergent path to, you know, so many different divergent paths, but to go home and have a very loving, supportive place where it just, it's everything. I've tried to tell my parents that because there's no one, there's no parent who wishes... more than anything that they couldn't take this away.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I didn't want, I think that a lot of the withholding was the love that I have for my parents. I didn't know if I could put this on them, especially as a 12 year old child. You don't have the skills, the coping skills to actually go and tell someone this is like, One thing I love this idea of telling, that telling is the easiest thing in the world.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Telling is the simplest form of you tell someone when you're hungry, you tell someone, you just tell them. Everything happens in the telling every day. But yet, this simple form of communication can be the most difficult thing that we all do. And it has to be so intentional in our lives. And the intention we put behind it is what we get out of it. So that's the relationship piece we get back.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Can I just touch on one thing about Bessel? And I think it's really important. I was talking about the resources that after I had my first session, you know, my world was turned upside down. Yes. It turned upside down. I write about memory that I have this memory of a coffee cup with the straw and the... I've always seen myself 100% as a glass half full of, okay, let's top it up.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Let's just keep going. Let's live on the top half. But in this moment, I looked across and I saw the straw and I saw the glass, the coffee cup half full. And I thought, I'm definitely down in the dark part right now with the coffee. I don't know where, I don't know what's up and what's down. And You know, is everything in my life a lie? Am I going to have to rebuild my life?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I was going to say that one of the things I did was take a stack of books. And I just retreated inward. And Bessel's book was the first book that I picked up. The Body Keeps the Score. The Body Keeps the Score. And I mean, I just like inhaled it. And then I inhaled it again. And I took notes and made notes.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I didn't want it to be real. You didn't want it to be real. I wanted it to go away.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I wanted to put it back in my brain. Yes. But really, once I said it, and then once I said it to myself, and then once I wrote it down a thousand times, I never wanted it to go away. And I accepted it for what it was. And I would be lying if I said that...
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I'm all done and I wrote the book and the book is good here and I've told the world my story and now it's all good and I never think about it again. But that's never going to be the case. I'm never going to be. But the acknowledgement of it, the telling of it, in that first act of just being honest with myself, it's just wildly liberating.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I literally live now for that experience to hear other people say, Whatever it is, whether you only tell yourself or whether you go and you share it with your best friend and then that best friend shares it with someone else and then it just shows you. And that's why when I talk about my experience of writing, it's only from my experience.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
So much of it. But when I look back, I think the process as someone, as a business person, as someone who's a competitive athlete, is the things that I've talked about sorting out over these years of the things that I wanted to. And we can all go through this cleaning your closet phase of yourself. I could throw everything out. that happened to me and say, this was all bad.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And it was, that was bad. But I was also able to sort out the parts of myself that I really like or the resilient parts or the parts that were, you know, as I went through this process, as this all unfolded,
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
You know, I recognize this, that at one part in the book, I'm trying to do the perfect thing, which is having gone from finding this out to, oh, no, no, no, I'm going to do what I normally do in my life, which is build up castles around me. I'm going to build whatever that perfect word is. And it's all going to be around me so that then no one can touch me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Because if I can just do that, then I don't need anyone. I don't, I don't, I can only just, I can give to others. I can make them look good and it doesn't have to be about me. And that's where there was another, you know, it was one process into the next. It went from one, you know, phase into the next. And I only can take it all in now that I've looked back at this process.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I mean, it still continues. The process has continued outside of the book. But there was this place and you talk about this bike ride with my husband where I say to him, you know, John, why do you not have more information about this? You're supposed to be leading the investigation and doing all of this. And he turned to me, and again, he's always right.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I just came to a place in my life where I realized that, you know, there's this idea that we think secrets keep us safe and really they keep us stuck. And I do, I have the most incredible life. I have a beautiful life. I've built a beautiful family and a career. I get to support these founders every day who I'm learning from and growing with on their teams. And it's been extraordinary.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
He's like my mother, that there's this, you know, he said, Amy, I can't be your husband and love you the way that I do and also conduct this investigation. And here I was putting this on him to say, go do this, this, this, this, and this for me so I can be perfect and build all this up around me so we can get to a conclusion. I can hold this person accountable.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I can make sure this person never does this again. And then we'll all just move on with our lives. And once again, I've done the thing the right way I was supposed to. I'm a good girl and I have achieved. And that was the moment where I realized that I can't do that.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I can't go inward and take care of myself and all that's gone on and really acknowledge it and have compassion at the same time, which is what the book is about because the book is not... the book of my trauma journey.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
The book is this, you know, it goes all over the place from being this crazy ride of an investigation to the things that happened and to come out the other end and realize, oh, I couldn't do all of that. I couldn't, I couldn't go forward. I couldn't, the perfect piece of that, like solving this. was maybe not what I needed. That's not the aftermath of what I needed. I needed to go in for me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Because I know that I knew. I write about the tells that various people call me out throughout the book of, wait, why did you just do that? So to be able to know yourself, know why you do the things you do, to have compassion for myself when I am in a very crowded elevator and I say, I'm going to have to get out and take the next one. You know, that is... So that is healing. That is true growth.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I feel that everything stems from that. So when you're so worried about the outside perspective of who have I left out? Who did I not invite to this? By the way, I still do all this. So how have I offended someone or hopefully I've included them?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And the thing I'm most grateful for is the friendships that I have in my life. But when I turned in the last few years to really recognize I'd built this life where I was supporting others in their journeys. And the time finally came where I recognized that it was time to tell my story. And I think one of the most interesting things about this process is that I started writing five years ago.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Until you turn inward and you really focus on yourself, you actually can't be there for all those people in the way that you could show up in a better way, in a more authentic way, in a way where once you know your worthiness, you show that to others. And now... this worthiness that I have for myself around knowing my story and never wavering on wanting to know the truth.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I can now show up even more for the people in my life, for my children and my husband. And, or I can also laugh at myself and say, sorry, it's why I had to run out of the elevator. But, and they know that about me and that, and that, that relationship piece I talk about, you know, as I've searched my memory, my memory is, Memory and relationships are all we have. It's all we have in this life.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Aren't we building towards the two? What else do we have? I'd like to know what happens when we go and what do we take with us. But we're creating memories and we're creating relationships. And I've done that. And so to be honest about the memories in my life, it makes everything come full circle.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
It's been everything. I'd like to say I don't sweat the small stuff anymore. I can still get mad when they spill spaghetti sauce on their bed and I said, don't eat in your room. But there's just a difference. There's a softening. You know, there's no longer a pacing of I said you need to be home at exactly this time and you're one minute late.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
That softening of understanding where they're coming from, this letting go of control and realizing that we as parents are really not in control. We can hold their hands across the street and make sure they're safe.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But really, that's all we can do is love them and to try to control them, to morph them into these beings, to go to a certain school or have a certain career or do the things they need to do. They see that. You know, I talk about that. We live in New York City. My children know that they, what is expected of them. For me to reinforce it around grades or the other piece of it, you know,
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
That's, they already know it. So I don't have to be on them for that. And also, I'm not going to take one of my children who could be a, if they make a B to say, you need to be an A student. I don't know what that solves for the relationship. So a lot has changed around me as an extension of myself trying to control my children and Right.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And that and that is a big that really creates that bond that I have with them in that it's a relationship. It's not a dictatorship.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
They've been amazing. A lot of times it comes off as jokes now. Oh, my gosh, mom would have done X before. Mom, you were so chill. Mom, look, mom didn't even care. And I can laugh at it rather than the tension that I see would have been there around control for their safety. Mm-hmm. And also in this knowing of the conversations I've had with my children.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
You know, my husband has said to me, he says to me every day as I step into this new realm of, why am I doing this? I know why I'm doing this. Why am I doing this? Amy, you are safe and you are loved. And then I try to repeat that to my children. You are safe and you are loved. And everything else we do, we can figure out together. But it's a closeness rather than a questioning.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But this story is not a story that I was trying to tell anyone else. It was a story that I wanted myself to believe. So it was this idea that I had to get the words on the page for myself. And I never knew, I had no idea actually that anyone was ever going to see my words. I wrote this book for me. I wrote it first for me without knowing that it would ever be seen by another person.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I don't like it when stuff is left on the floor. They know I now scoop it up and it disappears. They have to come find me for it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Can I go back to my mom again? Yeah, of course. I mean, both my parents. Like I look at this combination of my parents, of the things I say I don't want to throw away with what happened to me. And I grew up with this incredible entrepreneur as a grandmother who was a single mother who started these businesses like you, Jamie, in a small town where she just saw this need.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But I didn't know that people didn't always have a grandmother who worked all the time and followed her around to hear about the businesses she was building and the needs she was filling. But with my parents, I had this very ambitious, hardworking father who taught me the value of hard work and success. He's an incredible businessman.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And then my mom taught me the value of a thank you note and someone else's time. You send the best thank yous, I have to say. I love to write a thank you note. Thanks, Mom. I love to write a thank you note. Because when you sit down to write a thank you note, you get to remember, I get more from it because I get to remember how grateful I feel for the relationship I have with you.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I don't know if you can read my handwriting anymore.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
My handwriting looks like my grandmother's and it's going on by the wayside, but, but, I really enjoy that moment to then remember, capture the memory of what we did together and the gratitude I have for what you showed me, the effort you showed me to be in my life. So I love that. I love a thank you note. That's my second book.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Think about that idea too, that like in the writing of my book, you know, I was having a memory as I rewrote the memories and I was able to capture them and remember that's like the telling for me. It's just like me telling, it's the same thing in a thank you note. You're going to one person,
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
You're saying, thank you. And then you're taking that memory and whatever the brain does with the brain science, it's doing something where you're then reconnecting again to say, oh, that time we just spent together on that hike. Thank you for that. Like you get to remember it again.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And that simple step was... the greatest act of love for myself. And I look at it now, it was, it feels vulnerable. But in that vulnerability, I feel gratitude and power and grace. And I mean, all kinds of things. I feel all the feelings.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Well, I think being scared is good because it means you're doing something important. If I didn't say I was scared to come sit down, if I didn't say I was scared to tell this story, every time I said it, then it wouldn't be important. So I think that's really important. And I would say, take out a piece of paper and write it down in your handwriting so you're connected to it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
You can either put it in a drawer And you can, or you can look at it every day until you're ready. So just tell yourself. And then I would say back to that idea of forming a memory that we all have to have that person in our life that you can look in the eye and it really doesn't even matter what you're saying.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
It's not really even necessarily the words because I have distinct memory of all of my closest friends. I can go through the 20 friends in the last, in the year after the aftermath of what I was going through.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I can tell you not even what was said, but the mannerisms of the human connection that I had with the way that they looked me in the eye, or they held my hand, or in the case of my best friend, Rachel, I was with her two weekends ago and I said, you know, still trying to maybe doubt my memory a little bit.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I said, you know, it's funny, I remember writing in the book that when I told you my story, you held my feet. And I said, is that right? You've never held my feet before. Why would you hold my feet? And she said, I did hold your feet because it was the only part of you that I could reach because you were curled up in a ball and I reached for you and that was what I got.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And so that's my memory. And so to anyone that has that story to tell, find that person that you can create that connection with. I...
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I hope that every person that picks up this book finds a little piece of themselves.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
and that they find a little thread of themselves the way that I found myself. And in knowing that, if I hear those stories, I will feel so much joy. I will feel so much joy. I don't know that I'm gonna know all the stories, but I had something happen two weeks ago when I got back from break and I'd given an early reader copy to a friend And then someone else came to me and said, I read your book.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I kind of looked over and I thought, but I didn't give you my book. And then I realized, and she said, oh, so-and-so gave it to me after the holiday. She read it and she passed it on. And I thought, oh, that's it. That's just it right there. And I was scared, by the way. I was really scared. And I went into protection mode. as I say this, because I thought, no, no, wait a minute.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I don't have control. I'm not in control. I didn't give that person the book.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And then I went to a new place of joy of this is exactly what was supposed to be happening.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Someone else cared enough about my words that it didn't come from me. That they said, I want to share this with you because maybe they had a story to tell. Yeah.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I think the stories we have in our lives, that's the fabric of our lives. The stories of our lives are what make us who we are and the relationships that we have. The stories of our life are what our lives are built on.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I realized that, you know, also in the work that I do, it's all about the stories of the brands that are being built and how they're being built and the stories behind the scenes. And I think... My intention when I sat down to write, I knew, first of all, my mother told me I was a writer. So you have to believe everything that your mother says.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I think after I heard her say it enough times after I graduated from college, you're going to write a book, you're going to write a book, you're going to write a book. And she didn't know what was going to come out of that book. Isn't it amazing? Like a mother's intuition for my mother to say, I know you have this in you. I know you have this power within you.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
She told me when I graduated from college, I should try out for TV shows when I got to New York City. I said, Mom, I don't know that that's my calling. But she knew that I was going to write a book. And I think that might have been somewhere in the back of my head. Really, I'm saying that for the first time now to think about that.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I have one of my best friends always made the joke that she was writing my novel in her head and writing chapters. my dearest friend, Rachel. But really when I sat down to write for the first time and I pulled out a journal and would write starting at four in the morning until the sun came up, it was this idea that when I put the words on the page, that I couldn't take them back.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
They were my truth and they were my truth to myself. And I owe those words to myself.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
You know, when those words were said, they were so hard as a mother because I thought I was doing and tried to do everything that a mother thinks they're supposed to do.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I think I can realize how important now the idea of doing for your children, like all the things we do for our children in their daily lives, from everything, from whatever it is, from packing the lunch, to signing the report card, to getting them to practice. Those are the doings.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
We get, I know I can get so caught up in the daily lives of just getting them to and from places that sometimes the being and the being with them can get lost.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I look back at that time and while those words were so hard for me to hear and actually so difficult for me to write, to even write, to write those words down, I realized what a gift, what a gift those words were that my daughter and my daughters could be a reflection to me to say, mom, you know, where are you? And I love you.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I want you to participate in our relationship in a way that maybe that I wasn't. And I think what's so powerful about that is she was seeing something and able to share with me, which meant we already had a relationship, a close relationship. but to call me out and say, mom, I want you to see me in a different way.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I think that being so close to, I couldn't step outside of what had happened to me to actually really recognize why I had that wall up. And so, I mean, my children are my teachers, but in this moment, for sure.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
Well, I think the MDMA piece is really interesting because one of the things I've worked really hard to make sure that I accept is the idea that the MDMA was only one very small part of what was going on in my life. And yet, I think it was very crucial in terms of the timing.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But I've worked really hard also, and I talk about that in the writing, the idea that in the timing, in the place where I'd gotten to in my life was a place where I thought, things were really lining up such that I was coming to a place of being able to be honest with myself about the memories.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And it's not to say that none of the memories weren't there, but the ability of my brain anyway, I am not a scientist in any way, shape, or form, but my individual story, I knew I had tucked the fabric of my life in the back of my brain in many instances, and pieces were starting to come forward. And then I would tuck it back in.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I think a combination of things at the time was I had, you know, I had children that were of the ages that I was when what happened to me. And I also was of an age where my children were a little bit older. I wasn't having to worry about making sure they didn't fall in the swimming pool.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I wasn't, it wasn't like, you know, hand to hand, like making sure that they didn't fall down the stairs. So my brain had maybe a bit more space. And I think that I also can definitely pinpoint the relationships in my life. I have an incredible partner. It had been a partner, husband of 20 years who made me feel safe every day for 20 years.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
And I think that that relationship really allowed me to unwind and to say, okay, you know, I have all these pieces in my life that feel secure. And so I'm able to go in and really acknowledge what went on. And so the decision is,
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
to use psychedelics and to use MDMA was something that was a simple decision, but I realized what a big moment it was for me to take that pill and swallow the pill because, by the way, for everyone in my life, it's a huge deal once every six months when I might have a margarita or a glass of wine. I just don't really like alcohol. I don't even like coffee. I don't like alcohol.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
You know, maybe it's the part of my life in trying to be in control. But so it was really a big step. It was sort of the idea of taking a pill was this idea that so many factors in my life had come around to give myself permission. So I think the psychedelic piece, and I am so grateful for it. And I do want to talk about that. I want to talk about what that looked like.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But for me, it was this combination of factors that I've worked really hard to recognize that I'm the one that got myself to this place to do the work. and to use the psychedelic-assisted therapy to help me get to a new place that I don't know in other conditions what I have gotten to had I not gone ahead and said, okay, I'm ready.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
To put the eye shades on, to go inward, and to say, you know, you talked about these feelings of control and perfection that we all have as women and as humans. And those are all external factors. Those are all factors we feel when we want others to see us, we wanna be loved, we want them to reciprocate by saying, I see you, you're important, you've done this, you've done that.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
But this was a moment where none of that mattered. I went completely inward and I made the decision that I was going to first work on myself without recognizing the processes, which I'm sure we'll talk about, of what that would entail after in my life to then pick up the pieces to better all of my relationships in my life.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
I want to say one piece on the MDMA that I think is really important, and that is, and I hadn't thought about this when I went in to experience it, is that I realized I didn't know how significant the unwinding would be for me in terms of all that I would remember and allow myself to have compassion with MDMA to experience.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Power of Your Story and Deciding to Tell It! You Are the Hero of Your Own Life with Amy Griffin
such that, you know, the MDMA experience is one thing in my case, but on the other end of it, what you need to make sure that you're taken care of and that you have the resources, whether it's a friend who can listen or the time to process it, is something that you really have to know what you're getting into.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, for me, I had a little bit of distance from it because everyone in my life knows that I really, you know, for this need for control and perfection, I don't like alcohol and I don't like, I'd never seen illicit drugs. And this is something that I stay away from. I like to stay in control at all times.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And so the idea that, you know, psychedelic assisted therapy, I had read so much about it for veterans and how veterans had used this I actually also didn't realize that PTSD could refer to anyone other than someone who'd been in combat. And I think that was maybe me disassociating in a way from that because I just couldn't understand that.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, I think that's one of the things I've really come to realize, too, even in the writing of this, that trauma is not just what happened to me, but there are parts of us. in all of us that are broken, that we go in, if we can go in and just tell them and acknowledge them.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
So just to also, to go back to what we were saying about, I used MDMA and the idea that I had seen other people in my life that had benefited from it and seeing how that, you know, I took note of that and I saw how John had talked about, we'd always, if we'd gone to dinner and someone had said, John, do you have siblings?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
He would say, no, I'm an only child, which is true because John lost his sister, his to suicide many, many years ago. And then one night after John had had his experience, we went to dinner. Someone said, John, do you have any siblings? And he said, no, I'm an only, he said, no, I have, I'm sorry, I had a sister and she committed suicide. So the party line had changed.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I saw how he had changed. And I thought, well, I want some, I want that. I need that honesty. And that is why I decided, I think that there were There were so many reasons why I decided to do what I did at that moment in time. And I think that was, you know, whether you believe in the divine God, you know, how it all comes together, I don't know.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
But in this moment for me, it was the idea that I could no longer live with the secret. It was eating me up inside. It was killing me. But you didn't know you had the secret.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I didn't know the secret, but I did tell the practitioner that I knew I needed to really explore my childhood and sexual trauma. You knew that? I knew that, but I actually did not know what the trauma was. So when I went in to have the psychedelic assisted therapy session with a practitioner, there were so many reasons that set the stage.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I think it's so important for everyone to know this, that one, I had John. I had this incredibly... loving, supportive relationship that I'd had for a long time, so there was safety there. John. John. Yeah. Yeah. There was... And this is really important. I think it's incredibly important to talk about the idea that my daughters were of the ages that I was. when all the trauma happened to me.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
So that was happening at the same time. And then I also felt incredibly safe with the practitioner that I was working with. And so the setup was such that I was ready to go in and to give myself permission to take that pill. So it was more that going in to take the pill for me as someone who doesn't drink, who had never seen illicit drugs,
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
to take that pill and allow myself to have the compassion for myself to explore things I could not talk about on this earth.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I was lying down on a couch. There was this beautiful flamenco music playing in the background. I put the eye shades on. And I surrendered. And the therapist is guiding you through it. The therapist doesn't say one word.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
She didn't say a word, but I could feel the connection with her. And I could feel that I, the connection with her was so strong and the connection with John was so strong. And the connection with- But John wasn't there. John was not there. But all the people in my life, I feel like all roads led to this moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And in five minutes, I turned to the practitioner and I said, why is he here? Why is my teacher here? And then I said, I'm going to tell you everything.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
For eight hours. I just said it. I told her every single scenario, every single instance of the abuse, one after the other, it was linear. It was this, it was if I'm looking at this coffee cup, I would be able to tell you in 20 years exactly what the swirl of my coffee milk looked like.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
It was reliving the experiences as I had them, but I was reliving the experiences in a way as such that I had so much compassion for myself. And I think it's so important to also say that I am not a doctor. I'm not a scientist. I have no medical background, but I am a one of one. And I could tell this story a thousand times over and I remember it exactly as it happened.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, the first time that I had a session, I was the observer. And I did not feel like I was in any danger because I already knew I knew this, I was watching it. Instead I had complete compassion for myself, complete love for that little girl that experienced it. It was like two sides of me met. That 12 year old side of me met the Amy in her forties. And it was as if we embraced
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And no longer did I have to keep the secret. And it was also in that session that I realized that in many ways, and this is the real crux of all of it, that the secret is the hardest part. The secrets you're told to keep, they're not yours.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, I think that that's also a part of the journey. And that's a lot of the writing, too, in that along with the idea that I was pursuing this criminal investigation. I'm also pursuing this understanding of how could these memories be there and me not know about them. So I wanted to also perfect that. I wanted to have perfect answers. I wanted to have a perfect outcome. And so I did.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Over time, and I know that the subject of memory is always changing, but what I know in my memory is that, you know, there is storage and recall. And so all I can say to myself is I stored this memory. And then I could only recall it once I was in the setting in a place when it was time that my body was safe enough. There were 10 years where I really couldn't listen to myself.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I think it was another form of the running. Four kids, big life. For me, I was surviving. And that was looking perfect to the outside world.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
It was a form of, if you could just keep building and keep hiding and keep making everything look perfect, then you wouldn't be found out.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
It was the night before our rehearsal dinner for our wedding.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
First, can I also just say, I'm sorry for what happened to you.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
But, you know, I think that that's the realization as I look back, and that's part of the process that I went through in coming to understand that comment from my sister, who is the most loving human on the planet. And even then, the night, two nights before our wedding with, you know, all the emotions being high of a wedding,
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I recognized why am I reacting that way, even then, 20 something years ago, but only in the reflection of it, after really diving in to go and do this processing, could I realize that was shame. That was the word shame.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And in many ways, if you had asked me five years ago in the life that I'd built around control and perfection and making everyone else happy, if I knew what the word shame was, I might have said no and turned around and walked off.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Shame was not going to be a part of my story. And also, let me say, too, that in doing all this work, I can now go back and also look at the parts of me that I want to keep. And so I've been able to take those parts and recognize that leadership at its core... for me, was something that I was told I was a leader.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I was groomed by this person to use something that was an intrinsic part of me to say, oh, you're a leader, you're a leader. Well, guess what? I got to go back and reflect on that and recognize who I was before all of this. And the two things that I come to are kindness and And I'm a leader. Yeah. And I can say that.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I get that from both my parents. On both sides, I get that from my matriarchal grandmother who started the business, the Tootin' Totem.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I get that from an incredible father who is fierce and a hardworking and an incredible businessman. And I get it from my mother, who is also like my sister, the most loving, wonderful person on the planet.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, Oprah, days after I had my first psychedelic-assisted therapy session, John was standing in the room with me when I was in the bathtub, And I threw a bar of soap because I was 42 and I recognize, and I finally, I describe it as putting a puzzle above my head, the fuses. It was like the pieces snapped together, the entire, the corners, all of it came together in one place.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I threw the bar of soap, hurled it across the room because I said, I understand how he got to me. And he said to me, He used the intrinsic part of me that I am a leader. He told me, he said, you are the leader of this school. And this person, this trust, the word trust is the idea of all of this, is that I trusted this person. This wasn't a stranger.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
This was someone I trusted inherently and someone who was also supposed to be shepherding me. To become the best person that I can version myself.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
One of the things that's been really hard for me was in the telling, in this process, in the third part of the book, which is, you know, I say the second part is a crime novel that I go through and it goes up and down all over the place, but the third part's in the telling.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I think it's really interesting as an observation that in many of the adults and family members and friends, when I went to tell them, their reaction was, was more of why, how, in the adult brain, they wanted answers because they wanted to help me. But one of the most beautiful parts of all of this realization for me goes back to my daughters. And that when I did go to tell my girls,
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
They didn't say, why, how, why did we not know earlier? Instead, they said, we see you. They just said, we see you. We understand. We now know why you tried to be perfect. They validated me in the mind of a child. And I can see that connection now between how the adult brain and any adult can want an answer in one way and how children can just be present in the moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Then you believed him. And that inherently I wouldn't be loved. And to be told as a child that you will not be loved... Isn't that the basis of what we all want? Yeah, that's what everybody's striving for.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Gosh, thank you for that question. It also gives me the opportunity to be able to say to my parents that I don't think that there is anything else they could have done in this world to have changed what had happened. but also look where we are now and the hope that I can help other people in sharing my story.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And so I want to make sure that they know that they are off the hook because they try to keep themselves on the hook for this.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
It absolutely did. And I remember the next morning at breakfast, and I promise I'll answer your question. When the next morning at breakfast, my mother said to me, I have to say to you, you told me so much last night, but I don't remember any of it. And I said, but that's just it. That's the whole point of this, is that it's too hard to hold.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, first, Oprah, I just want to say I'm so grateful. I have so much gratitude to be sitting here with you today. And this audience, because in its simplest form, the book is about telling. And sometimes it's the hardest thing to do. It's the hardest thing we do, but that's what we're doing right here. And that's what the book is.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
My best friend always says, make sure you let everyone tell their own story, like their part of the story. And that was one of the things I realized in going to tell my family. And it was the hardest part too. I had to say to them, I'm going to tell you something, but also I can't hold it for you. So I can't then come and mourn and grieve it with you. You have to mourn and grieve it.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And then we can grieve in the relationship together. And that's part of the separation that I think that happens with the abuse. And so when I said, I don't know how I'm going to tell my parents this, this is the hardest thing I can ever tell my parents. And I thought that would be the worst day of my life.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
But my dad turned to me and he said, after all of it, just stoic like, and I think you all read it, but I love saying the line. We might have missed the first part of your life in this way, but we're not going to miss the second half. I love that. I love that. And what I would say about your daughters is my children are right about the same age.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I would say that the word vulnerability comes to me and comes to mind in this idea that as parents, we think we have to be this authoritative figure, but really it's breaking down those yes sirs, yes ma'ams, that obedience piece of parenting to just have those honest conversations with your children about vulnerability and giving them agency.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
So that they know in those moments when something, they have a flicker in their brain that's not right, that they can come tell you.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Oh gosh. Thank you. Well, to simplify my relationship with John is to say he puts his hand on my back and he just knows. There's a part about the book where I talk about long no and short yes. Oh, I love that part. I meant to bring that up. Long no, short yes in making decision-making. And this is, it's John's phrase, so I'm actually stealing it.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I think the idea that we think secrets keep us safe, but they keep us stuck. And I really came to understand that.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
But, and with us, and I write about this, there's not a long no of dating and then, okay, I guess we should get married. It was instantaneous decision-making.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I feel like I am so grateful that in this world that I've been given John, because through this relationship that we've built over so many years, I truly believe that was maybe one of the only reasons I was able to come around in this lifetime to be able to say what happened to me.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And so I think instinct, though, and leaning into instinct is something that's so important, even in just finding that right partner. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Only as sick as your secrets. Yes. And I had so many memories of standing in line at a Starbucks when I was actually, in the last few years, as I was writing this book, and then I was in the process of doing all of this.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
It's definitely changed. I think John could tell you better, but I'm going to say, you know, I've asked the people in my life. I think that there's more stillness. I can't run anymore, which is all for the better. But there are things that, you know, I've slowed down to recognize when I do something, I can understand why I do the things I do, why I am the way that I am.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I think it gives more of me. There's more of me for my relationships and my friendships and my parenting.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
that I was standing in line looking at the cake pops and everything in the background and thinking I'm about to tell someone my story because so many times my story was told over a cup of coffee. And so I have these intense memories of gathering my thoughts as to how I was going to tell someone my story. And the idea that the secret really, the secrets are really all memories.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
They never questioned. And I think the most important part about this book and in writing this book, that was when I wrote this book, I never knew that anyone would ever read this book. I never had an inkling that it would see the light of day. I wrote this book in my closet, on the bathroom floor, for myself.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I could say that in the early part of the writing, as it all unfolds, and with trauma like this, I'm sure you probably agree, it unfolds in layers in a way much like a book, like a chapter. And my book is not about just what happened to me. It's not the story of what actually happened to me. It's the processing of it.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
It's the telling of all the people in my life, which were in many ways more difficult than experiencing the trauma for myself to have to go in and be honest with each person in my life. And to recognize that every time you go to tell someone, they may be in a very different place than where you are. So in the cultivating of relationships... I talk about You know, my life is this tapestry.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I have taken what was a tragedy and turned it into this tapestry of relationships for which I'm immensely grateful. But in each one of those relationships, as I was building this quilt, I had to go and pull those threads and tell people what had gone on. And that was a real blessing.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, practically... I listened to Fortnite by Taylor Swift on repeat a thousand times. Anything by Taylor Swift. And then I will say also, movement is still really important for me. But it's slow, it's gentle. It's maybe back to what that therapist, that physical therapist said to me, why do you move so fast? And so now in this recognition, there is movement. There are lots of hot baths.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I think that everything that I come up with creatively comes from being in the bathtub when the water is running and my brain is sort of- Me too. Really? Yes. So when the bathtub gets filled, I even open it up a little bit and let the water keep running. Yes. And it's like it opens up that valve of creativity for me.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Go sit in the tub, run some water. It's true. My mom would either say, go take a bath, or could you please go for a run? Because my mom knows me so well. And so I would say that. But I would also say that when there are those everyday triggers, that instead of going, why did I do that? I go tell someone.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
and i share it and it's not as scary once i go and i tell someone and then i can see in their eyes you know they can they can hold it for me and and that's how i've that's how i've coped thank you happy birthday shannon my question as i was reading through the book is what is something that you gained that you did not expect from writing the book hmm good shannon What did you gain?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, one, just from the writing, vulnerability. Just purely understanding that vulnerability actually equates to me as powerful now. I sense so much power in vulnerability and I appreciate that because it makes me so much more reachable with everyone in my life and both in my business and the founders that I get to work with and my children and my husband.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And the other thing from the book piece of it, I have to say that another author friend said to me, Amy, the publishing of a book is one thing and your ego can get involved and you can care about the book coming out. But you have to remember that book is all about the people that you will meet along the way. Now, never could I have imagined. There I was. Along the way.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Oprah, but as I sat, the woman who was my practitioner when I had my MDMA session, she would say often to me, Amy, the end is glorious. There is something glorious waiting on the other side of this process you're going through. This was the glorious ending. that she would have never anticipated that I was sitting here with you, able to tell this story and share it with so many other people.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
They're memories that come from... the beautiful parts of my book, which is in the writing of my childhood, which I so loved. I loved writing about doing cartwheels in the field and catching ladybugs in a jar and all these memories that we all have from childhood.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Coming from the words that I put on the page just for myself, and then in realizing the deeper connection that I could have in telling one person and then another person.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, first, I'm focused on saying I'm sorry. And thank you for being here in the front row to look me in the eye and share and tell. And I would say that I think one of the most important things is, which is in all the running, you know, in the book, I talk about this lawyer that I had to work with, an Amarillo named Duke, who kept saying, you need to slow down, you need to slow down.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And it infuriated me, even though he was responding to the criminal investigation. He was saying I needed to slow down. And as mad as I was at that process, I think the idea that it is a process and that for, you know, you see me in this dress today and you see my husband and we're sitting here, we have prepared to come on the Oprah show, but...
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
There are many, many moments where it was bleak and dark and it's okay. And in a way, I would never say I miss those moments, but I'm grateful that I had them because it makes me understand myself better. And I'm so connected to myself and those memories of those days where it wasn't going so great. So it's slow, just take it slow.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And that's what I would say that to take it slow and to write it down.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And, you know, getting on my banana seat bike and riding off to take all of my friends to the convenience store, which was close to our house, which was the convenience store that happened to be owned by my family, which was our family business and is our family business.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Wow, that's a gift of a question. Because two nights ago, I went into our youngest bedroom and I said, Julian, You know, I just thought about something and I thought about the idea that the word that I went into his room thinking about was consent. And I said, you know, I realized that you were seven when I started writing this book. And like any parent, a few years ago, I did tell him my story.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I did it. I had consulted every parenting manual. And I sat, you know, they say do it where you're sitting at a deli counter or where you're driving or where you're doing something with them. And in my case, I told him the story when I was doing a puzzle with him. And he kind of shook his head. Okay, got it. Do you want to ask any more questions? No. And then I left it.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And two nights ago when I was back in his bedroom, I went and I said, you know, I have to tell you something. I'm about to go on the Oprah show. And I just want to make sure that you know that has anyone asked you about my book? Because it's coming out. People are talking about it. And he said, yeah, a few of my friends have. And I said, well, what do you tell them?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
He said, I tell them it's about memories and your life. And I looked at him and I said, but guess what? You can tell them whatever you want. You can tell them all of it. You can tell them everything I told you. You can tell them how you feel about it. And you can tell them that maybe this story might help them. And he said, okay, mom.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And then he said, and now I'm ready to read it because he's old enough to read the story.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, thank you. And thank you for the work you're doing to also now pay it forward after your experience. You know, that's what also in writing this book and realizing that I have so many resources and I tapped into all of them. I read every possible book. I tried every possible therapy. I was going to work my way out of this in many ways.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And I think what came down to the writing of this book and the whole meaning of this book is that it's in the tell.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And so resources or not, I just hope that every person who's been through something like this or has any kind of broken part of them can find one person in their life and to know where that person is in their life, but to be able to go to them and trust them with their story and have them hold it and repeat it back and have the conversations back and forth
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
That's the start and that's what has to happen. And I think when I envision this book, I envision that people take the book and they pass it openly to a friend at a cafe, at a Starbucks. They don't have to hide it anymore. They pass the book and they say, just read this. And then I hope that this book will sit on nightstands and then people will read it and refer back to it.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
My dream is that in 10 years, someone will write me and say, hey, I just have to tell you something. This book helped me so much. It changed my life. And that they pulled one passage out of it. And then that will be reason enough for me to have written the book.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
This was where I got to be giving. Tootin' Totem. The Tootin' Totem food store. Because you honk your horn and toot, and then they tote it out. That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I feel so free in this moment. I felt free since the minute I said the words to John when he came down after my session. It was the most liberating. liberating moment of my life, Oprah, it was other than the days that you go into a hospital room and you have a baby and you come out with three people. Yeah. Or the day that I jumped up and down at the altar for my volleyball days.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
That's right. Yeah. And, you know, that was where, in the beginning of my life, I got to be giving. I got to be loving. I got to bring my friends and say, everybody gets to get a Coke and one candy bar, and that's it.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I was jumping up and down to marry him. It was, while on one, the hardest day of my life, it was also the most liberating day of my life. And so I feel so much freedom. And I want to say that you know, the person who really cares about this freedom is the 12-year-old me.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And the real conversation, the telling that has to happen, that happened along the way in the writing of this book, was the telling to my 12-year-old self, he did not dim your light. And for that 12-year-old self to then say back, you didn't let him dim your light, right? You don't have to show up sad at the Oprah show. Yeah. And that is pure freedom.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And then I went in and the memories of childhood that I talk about in part of the book that are very difficult, that are childhood memories about deep childhood trauma that I've had to trust in myself to accept and to write about those two along with the memories that were so beautiful.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And then I went about this crazy criminal investigation, which you can read about, which talks about the secrets.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Yes. Well, the secret that I discovered was the idea that I had been for many years abused in a school bathroom by a teacher. I decided that, you know, if I went in and I criminally investigated this person and I did everything I could to hold this person accountable, that if I could do that, that I would show that I was right and he was wrong.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I was in the closet. I'd just gotten out of the bathtub. I was soaking wet.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
The pursuit was something that I thought that I needed because for many reasons. One, I knew I had to hold this person accountable so that he couldn't hurt anyone else. But also, I thought the criminal investigation and this pursuit of that would make me whole. It would take everything away from me, and it would prove, like I'd done in so many other areas of my life, to say, I got this person.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Look, I have validation right here that this person has been put away because of my efforts. And, you know, at the same time that I'm pursuing this criminal investigation and the ups and downs of all of it that I'm writing about, I realized I'm also really looking inside myself. And I'm investigating what I need from this. But I was running a parallel track at the same time, trying to do both.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Oh, my God. I don't know that anyone ever expects that Oprah's going to call, but it was a beautifully, very validating moment, I will just say.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Well, I look at that conversation with the physical therapist, and I think about the idea that she was talking about, just asking, why do you push yourself so hard? Why now? Why this? Why that? Why can't you slow down? And I look back at it now, and I realize... I was finally able to hear her, for her to say that to me, that your body is breaking down. I've had hip surgeries, back surgeries.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I mean, every possible injury you could imagine. And it was this idea that I then turned to myself in hearing her to say, Why am I not listening to the physical cues that my body is trying to tell me something?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Can you describe what was happening? Well, I was never a sit-by-the-pool girl. I was never a, let's just sit by the pool and hang out. And I've tried to be that, but I just have never been that sit-by-the-pool girl. But I think I realized and I started to see these little glimmers of the idea that I had and realizations that I had built up castles around me. I'd built up these castles in my life.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
with this moat and this drawbridge. And there were a lot of alligators in that moat. And I was building and building and building. And it was much easier to always say, look at that person over there. But I think that I started to realize you've been running really hard, really fast for a long time, and you're missing something.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
you know, they say your children are your greatest teachers. Yes. And in this case, and always in the case of my girls, and they're watching going, yeah, I know. But I have to say that that night I went into Gigi's room and both the girls called me in. And I went in with Gigi and Gracie said, no, Gigi really needs, she needs to tell you something.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
And Gigi looked at me at 11 years old and she said, mom, you're there. You're not really there. Where are you? And I turned into the child and I stormed out of the room. I slammed the door. And John said, what happened in there? And I said, well, I do everything for her. I do everything. I do all the planning. I do all the packing. I have, her life is perfect because of me.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
Mom, you're nice, but you're not real.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
But that's not honest. And that was the catalyst. If your children can't be a mirror to you, then who can? And that was a moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I could never have taken it out. But as a mother... Do you also know how hard it was to say it?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I mean, the parent-child role had been reversed in that moment. Yeah. And I actually had to stop and listen and say, you know, I have to go figure this out. I have to understand why she's telling me this. And it could have been the other way around where the door could have stayed slammed and I could have said, no, you're going to just obey me and do what I say. Yeah. But I didn't. I didn't.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin Confronts Her Darkest Secret in “The Tell”
I leaned in to recognize there was something within myself. I mean.