Alexander Ward

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

Yeah, thanks for having me.

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

Right. So we should note that this information was provided in real time. Right. And if you look at those texts on Signal, you saw that Pete Hexeth, the defense secretary, was saying, you know, planes in the air, bombs are going to happen at this time. And then Waltz chimes in and goes, hey, we effectively have an assessment here.

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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We've seen that one of these people we were tracking, one of this Houthi top missile man, went into his girlfriend's house and we've seen it destroyed. And this was a positive ID, that they ID'd this person going into the building, and it's unclear if ID'd afterwards. But point is, that's real-time information, right? And that was provided by the Israelis to the U.S. And we should note, the U.S.

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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has other ways to positively ID. Waltz does say in those texts, you know, there were multiple IDs. So it's not like it was wholly reliant on Israeli intelligence, but it's fair to say that Israeli intelligence provided to the U.S., informed, at a minimum,

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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The text that Mike Waltz put into Signal, which, of course, as you said, is a publicly available non-governmental app on what seem to be unclassified networks.

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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Yeah, at a minimum, there are now Houthi operatives who know that there could be a spy among them or within their networks more generally. Now, whether they learned that from our reporting or whether there was a way they could see that information if the Signal chat was spied on and released to the Houthis, I doubt that that was the case, to be honest. But who's to say?

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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The point is we don't know, but the possibility exists because it was put on Signal, which is the point here, right? These kinds of conversations should be happening in secure facilities in the Pentagon, in the Situation Room,

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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Or, you know, as government officials, high-level government officials are provided skiffs or other kinds of communications tools in order to have these conversations at home. Or, you know, if they have to, they have to leave their families at home, go into their government buildings, go into the secure facility and have these kinds of conversations on weekends, late nights.

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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It's not efficient or ideal, but it's how you protect these secrets. And so, sure, it is more efficient to put this kind of stuff on signal. You can do that. But you do open yourself up to the possibility that that becomes public or is intercepted in some way by adversaries. Does that mean it's likely? I can't say that with any sense of certainty, but I can say it's definitely not zero percent.

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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Right. And so this is the issue now is, of course, now it's out in public in our story. But at a minimum, one could assume that that intelligence went in there. And if it were to somehow some way make it to the intended targets, they would go, ah, there is a spy among us.

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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Well, we have heard even before this, right, just because of President Trump's own views on the war in Ukraine and his talking to Russia because of Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard and her views on Syria and Russia and others. There has just been some hesitation about sharing as much intelligence as before with the United States.

The Rachel Maddow Show

Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

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You can imagine after this now there'll be even more pause. Now, whether that actually leads to a slowdown of intelligence sharing, I don't know. I haven't seen any direct evidence at the moment. But I have heard from foreign officials who are already wary of providing as much intel, as much in-depth intel to the U.S. as before. And I can't imagine that this episode helps. Wow.