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Alan Rosenstein

👤 Person
240 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

At this point, it's actually not clear to me how much of the value of TikTok is in the algorithm and let's say how much better that algorithm is to the other comparable algorithms. Because, of course, Meta's TikTok competitor has its own algorithm. Google's TikTok competitor has its own algorithm. And all these algorithms, they're pretty similar.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

At this point, it's actually not clear to me how much of the value of TikTok is in the algorithm and let's say how much better that algorithm is to the other comparable algorithms. Because, of course, Meta's TikTok competitor has its own algorithm. Google's TikTok competitor has its own algorithm. And all these algorithms, they're pretty similar.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

At this point, to make a good algorithm, you need a big company with a lot of data and a ton of compute and a lot of good machine learning engineers, which Meta and Google all have. So I suspect that even if TikTok's algorithm is the best, it's not orders of magnitude better in the way that it might have been when TikTok first started.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

At this point, to make a good algorithm, you need a big company with a lot of data and a ton of compute and a lot of good machine learning engineers, which Meta and Google all have. So I suspect that even if TikTok's algorithm is the best, it's not orders of magnitude better in the way that it might have been when TikTok first started.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

At this point, to make a good algorithm, you need a big company with a lot of data and a ton of compute and a lot of good machine learning engineers, which Meta and Google all have. So I suspect that even if TikTok's algorithm is the best, it's not orders of magnitude better in the way that it might have been when TikTok first started.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

I mean, clearly, this is telling me that I need to get on TikTok if I'm a law professor, and there's a demand for these kinds of answers. No, again, there are many things that might be going on here. One, it might be that the algorithm is better. But the other thing that might be happening, and I think this is maybe more relevant to your original question, is

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

I mean, clearly, this is telling me that I need to get on TikTok if I'm a law professor, and there's a demand for these kinds of answers. No, again, there are many things that might be going on here. One, it might be that the algorithm is better. But the other thing that might be happening, and I think this is maybe more relevant to your original question, is

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

I mean, clearly, this is telling me that I need to get on TikTok if I'm a law professor, and there's a demand for these kinds of answers. No, again, there are many things that might be going on here. One, it might be that the algorithm is better. But the other thing that might be happening, and I think this is maybe more relevant to your original question, is

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

The content on TikTok might be better, which is to say there may be more people on TikTok and they're, quote unquote, better people in the sense of creating content. But that is different than the algorithm and that can be sold. So what there is no Chinese law against is ByteDance selling TikTok without the algorithm. And that itself might be valuable enough.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

The content on TikTok might be better, which is to say there may be more people on TikTok and they're, quote unquote, better people in the sense of creating content. But that is different than the algorithm and that can be sold. So what there is no Chinese law against is ByteDance selling TikTok without the algorithm. And that itself might be valuable enough.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

The content on TikTok might be better, which is to say there may be more people on TikTok and they're, quote unquote, better people in the sense of creating content. But that is different than the algorithm and that can be sold. So what there is no Chinese law against is ByteDance selling TikTok without the algorithm. And that itself might be valuable enough.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

Now, it's not going to be as valuable as TikTok with the full algorithm. But it might still be quite valuable. And one could imagine a situation in which a U.S. company buys TikTok, which is to say it buys all its users, it buys all the content, it buys the network itself, minus the algorithm, and then replaces the algorithm with something else. Now, it won't be as good.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

Now, it's not going to be as valuable as TikTok with the full algorithm. But it might still be quite valuable. And one could imagine a situation in which a U.S. company buys TikTok, which is to say it buys all its users, it buys all the content, it buys the network itself, minus the algorithm, and then replaces the algorithm with something else. Now, it won't be as good.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

Now, it's not going to be as valuable as TikTok with the full algorithm. But it might still be quite valuable. And one could imagine a situation in which a U.S. company buys TikTok, which is to say it buys all its users, it buys all the content, it buys the network itself, minus the algorithm, and then replaces the algorithm with something else. Now, it won't be as good.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

But it probably will be good enough to keep the people on TikTok on TikTok. And because the algorithm is really based on the data, at some point, that new owner will have enough data to recreate something like the algorithm. But I would say that the deeper issue here is, yes, there is a law in China that prohibits the sale of the algorithm because it prohibits the export of Chinese technology.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

But it probably will be good enough to keep the people on TikTok on TikTok. And because the algorithm is really based on the data, at some point, that new owner will have enough data to recreate something like the algorithm. But I would say that the deeper issue here is, yes, there is a law in China that prohibits the sale of the algorithm because it prohibits the export of Chinese technology.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

But it probably will be good enough to keep the people on TikTok on TikTok. And because the algorithm is really based on the data, at some point, that new owner will have enough data to recreate something like the algorithm. But I would say that the deeper issue here is, yes, there is a law in China that prohibits the sale of the algorithm because it prohibits the export of Chinese technology.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

But we have to be realistic here. What's going to determine whether ByteDance sells TikTok is not Chinese law, but the Chinese government. We take for granted in the United States and in liberal democracies that a private company is a private company and that although it has to comply with the laws of the jurisdiction, it's still a private company. That's just not the case in China.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

But we have to be realistic here. What's going to determine whether ByteDance sells TikTok is not Chinese law, but the Chinese government. We take for granted in the United States and in liberal democracies that a private company is a private company and that although it has to comply with the laws of the jurisdiction, it's still a private company. That's just not the case in China.

Fresh Air
The Looming TikTok Ban

But we have to be realistic here. What's going to determine whether ByteDance sells TikTok is not Chinese law, but the Chinese government. We take for granted in the United States and in liberal democracies that a private company is a private company and that although it has to comply with the laws of the jurisdiction, it's still a private company. That's just not the case in China.