Adam Kinzinger
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Look, I think, look, the human mind can convince themselves of anything, especially if you have to bring into alignment. who you are with your values and currently, you know, where you are is outside of your values. You can convince yourself of anything and they've convinced themselves.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And you're like, listen, it's good to be in shape. I try to be in shape as a 46-year-old man. When you're obsessed with how you look at 50-something, something is missing in your life. Something.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Donald Trump is just, look, he's not saying he wants Ukraine to win because he wants to be able to go to the negotiating table, but trust me, he wants Ukraine. He knows if Ukraine falls, he's going to be judged harshly. And actually he wants Vladimir Putin to think he's unpredictable. By the way,
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
If anybody else ever says the, oh, Donald Trump just wants people to think he's unpredictable BS line, it's garbage. Donald Trump doesn't want people to think he's unpredictable. He just is unpredictable because he doesn't know if he likes our enemies or our friends. And he actually, honestly, doesn't even care who he likes. It's all about what makes him feel good at the moment.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
It's a three-year-old way of doing foreign policy.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. This is why I'm a believer in, you know, a lot of times when you compare the House versus the Senate, the Senate is always seen as a smarter, better body. In reality, I think the House is.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And I mean this because, and I'm serious, we're better at asking questions because we have a much stricter clock, you know, and you have five minutes to ask a question of an important person. So what you see in Ms. Slotkin there is she basically says,
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
was able to see when he was starting to filibuster to cut him off this is what every democrat should have done to cut him off to not let him do it to go back to her question no i asked you a specific question now is he ever going to answer that probably not is that going to affect his nomination probably not but at least you're getting it on the records the on the record the other thing is
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Is, you know, Pete, and again, he did a good job for if your job is not to have oversight and simply to get confirmed by a cult, like he did fine to do that. But he would always answer everything with, I'm not going to answer hypotheticals. And it's like, look, okay, if Russia attacked, would you defend the United States of America with the U.S. military?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Well, I'm not going to answer hypotheticals. It's like, well, no, you're going to be Secretary of Defense. We need to know, would you be willing to do that? So when you ask, would you put the 82nd Airborne on the street? Would you use the military to round up people? Just answer the question. Like, no, it's not hypothetical because Donald Trump said he's going to do it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And that's, again, a frustration for...
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
for is they let him get away with all that with answering that's a hypothetical like trust me i'm gonna tell you as a politician that is the fallback answer to punt and not answer a question if i'm on tv particularly when i was in and they're like hey you know if donald trump blah blah if i felt comfortable answering it i'd answer it if i didn't i'd be like i'm not going to deal in hypotheticals that's just it's it's politician trick
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Is there anything that worries you most about Pete? The thing I guess that would worry me the most is Donald Trump makes a decision like, let's use the military to suppress a riot, right? You know, the National Guard can be used, but let's use the Title 10 military. There's not going to be anything to stop him.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And there's not going to be a general, you know, we always have this belief that, you know, officers will refuse an illegal order. Well, maybe, but they also have to know the order is illegal. And a secretary of defense determines in many cases what is, and so does the president, what is illegal and what is illegal, because it's really just an interpretation by a lawyer.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
So I don't think this like honorable swear a duty to the constitution thing is really going to defend us against overreach by this president. The other thing is just sheer incompetence. I mean, there is no way Pete Hegseth goes to Washington, D.C. and ever gets a grip on on the bureaucracy and what actually DOD does.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Because by the time he learns that he's either going to be fired or his time in office is going to be up, I guess that's a concern. But yeah, more than anything is this politicizing the military and just violating the Constitution.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
that you want to weigh in here's the thing i want to keep hammering this to people because people will say like well what state of the war you know you'll see these things ukraine is losing okay ukraine if they lose the amount of territory they've lost in two years okay if they keep losing that rate of territory it will take a hundred years for russia to take over ukraine
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
I want you to think about that. So, yes, you'll read Ukraine lost 20 square kilometers or 30 square kilometers. When you do the math at that rate, it takes 100 years for Russia to overtake Ukraine. You also extrapolate the math and say at the cost of 70 million Russian soldiers. So obviously it's unrealistic for a defending country to win a war. All they have to do is defend.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
They don't have to collapse the Russian government. They don't have to defeat the Russians in three months. They have to continue to defend. Ukraine is doing that bravely and heroically. If Donald Trump makes a decision, and I pray he does, to stand with Ukraine or at least give Ukraine what they need while we negotiate, there is no way Ukraine falls. And so, substantially, I've said this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Ukraine is way outpunching its weight class. It still occupies territory of the Russians, the first time that's happened since World War II. And their fighting spirit remains strong. The one thing I'll say quickly is the Ukrainians have got to get a grip on their drafting age. They don't draft until, I think, 25 years old, which means 18 to 25 is not drafted.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And it's the whole thing is, well, we want to save our youth. I get it. But if your country collapses, you're not going to save your youth. We basically stopped drafting people about the time that Ukraine starts. That is a huge problem in Ukraine that they have to fix. And I expect that would happen, you know, with any deal with Trump probably.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
I mean, look, this is – although it doesn't have quite the implications as like Michael Flynn would have had, this is like having Michael Flynn at that level. Joe Kent, he lost to Jamie Herrera Butler, my friend. She was a fellow impeacher. I mean, this guy is like – I'm not going to say neo-Nazi, but as close as you can get to that without being labeled that is about what he is.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
He's Nazi curious. Yeah. Yeah. Every conspiracy theory he buys into. And honestly, there's some real mental health questions that, again, I don't say judgmentally, but those are things you have to take into account. I mean, you can't even fly an airplane for United if you've had mental health issues.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
So in terms of being in charge of our very important parts of the military, we probably should have that discussion. So yeah. this has nothing to do about competence or anything. This is all about who is a MAGA influencer. And if you're a MAGA influencer, you're going to get a job in this, in this administration. And you know, if you're Elon Musk, by the way, that's a whole nother thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Elon Musk is the most frightening person in the world right now. But yeah, the Joe Kent thing is scary.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
I got something to say about Nancy Mace, especially. Okay. First off, she shouldn't have called her child. Okay. Let's say that. Like she shouldn't have.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Yep. So you have Tulsi, who basically passionate about Bashar al-Assad until he fell, also believed we couldn't spy. on spies. Basically we couldn't spy on spies until she all of a sudden switched because either she didn't understand what it was or more than likely because she needed to, to, to win. And then she's putting this other conspiracy in that position.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
So look, it's the good thing is there'll be safeguards around them in terms of like the CIA will have its own safeguards and everything. But this is a, this is a mess and not, you know,
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, let's say, you know, these same people are the ones that are cruising X to find out what the latest conspiracy is that people like Elon Musk are retweeting.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Or from Hustle Bitch or Cat Turd.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Okay, by the way, give me one second to say this. The people that say – and I really don't read the comments on X, but occasionally I'll look at them. And they'll be like – they'll call you a coward or something like that for something. Yeah. And then their name is Cat Turd or Hustle Bitch or some name that is not their real name.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Dude, by the way, if I tweeted under an alias, I could say really brave stuff too. Like, come on. That's the whole thing is like the definition of like manliness or bravery or whatever or courage has totally changed to can you – Can you tweet in all caps on the Internet? And if you're brave and courageous, it means you're going to do whatever Donald Trump and other men tell you to do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Not, you know, what you actually believe to be right. It's it's such a bizarre world. Anyway, it's all that's all rant.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
This to me, Tim, is I haven't put a grip on it yet fully, but it is the most frightening kind of thing to me that exists out there is the fact that somebody like Elon Musk, you know, there's rumors, by the way, pretty good ones that there was a. A FOIA, we don't know who it came from, to request every time anybody at NASA typed out SpaceX for all those emails.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And so who has a negative view of SpaceX? The problem is Elon is violating all these rules, can basically demand his company gets whatever, could actually start working with the Russians, could do whatever he wants. And there are no safety valves right now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
but then watching mace it's like and this i'm not even joking here i saw that this morning okay and then i pulled up on youtube because it reminded me and i didn't do it on purpose it just like you know how you get this chain of events in your mind yeah i pull i'm not even joking this is god's honest truth i pulled up the will ferrell i drive a dodge stratus like uh you know thing from snl where they're sitting there eating in the awkward dinner and they all start yelling each other's
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
At least in the next five days, you and I know that if Elon Musk basically broke the law, that there would be some thing to come in and stop that from happening. Either there would be a breakup of monopolies or whatever. Under Trump, that doesn't exist. There is nothing. So he can endorse the neo-Nazi party in Germany. He can go against the UK government. And he is basically Iron Man.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
He's the most powerful man in the world right now. That is a massive concern to me because it's not like he's even thinking rationally. This is another dude on the edge of a mental breakdown or something. I actually really do am concerned more about Elon Musk than I am probably even about Donald Trump at this point.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
No, it's a great question. We need to keep kind of the fire as dim as it is kind of lit on the on these principles and these ideas. But yeah, I mean, honestly, no Republican senator cares anymore. The good thing is, I honestly believe this in four years. is the end of MAGA. I think it's done in four years.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
I don't think it survives past the Trump administration for any number of reasons, but I don't think it does. And so then history is going to kind of look back as it defines what is January 6th to things like what happened on the January 6th committee and the January 6th report. So this is important from a historical perspective for our kids to learn what to never do again. But in the short term,
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Look, they don't care. And, you know, we've got to keep this fire lit. But something, Tim, that I was thinking of, you know, in the last couple days is, you know, we keep thinking about this old Republican Party that, you know, we hold up so dear, the Reagan Party or whatever, but... For the last 10 years, there has been no vestige of that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
So over a period of 10 years, a party eventually does completely change its stripes. It no longer holds old vestiges of what it was. And sadly, we're at that point now. There is no principles in the Republican Party.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
It's literally a party of one man, which means when he eventually has won too many Big Macs, I don't know what will happen to the party, but they're going to have a little, it's like when a dictator falls in a country, you can expect some real instability.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
It confirms it, and it makes me angry that I am angry at Merrick Garland. I've tried to kind of cover that anger up because I wanted to defer to the Justice Department on a lot because I'm not a – I'm not a lawyer. I've never worked for the Justice Department. But, you know, the reality is it was after our first hearing in the summer when it was kind of that holy shit stuff that came out.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
That's when DOJ started their investigation against Trump. They lost a year in that process and a year and a half, actually. This would have been fully adjudicated had Merrick Garland actually appointed a special prosecutor right after January 6th, as Mitch McConnell basically had said should have been done. This would be fully adjudicated.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
I really believe had the American people seen the full totality of this, had a jury convicted Trump, it would be a very different America. But I got to tell you, Trump is the luckiest man that's ever lived in
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Like, I'm an important guy. I'm a district manager. And literally, and it was not because of her, but it led to that chain because I was like, ah, the Dutch Stratus SNL thing. Like, it's crazy. I mean, and the thing about Nancy Mace is she was, when she started out, so when I was in, she was very much the moderate and mature.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Look, I never thought as a neocon I'd ever be against an invasion, particularly a land grab. But no, I don't want Greenland. I mean, honestly, like all of a sudden, what, 40,000 people that are going to expect us to take care of them because there's not a huge economy there. Look, we already have access to Greenland in terms of some of the military stuff. It is a very important landmass.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And this is something I think people need to understand. When Donald Trump claims that it is important for national defense, he's actually claiming it is important to posture against Russia. OK, because Russia is the threat on this, which is interesting because we could actually posture against Russia by ensuring that Ukraine wins the war.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
That's actually the best way to push back, not an invasion of Greenland. So look, as long as I think we can continue to use our military there to an extent and be able to monitor it and whatever we need, the Danes are not going to ban us from Greenland and they're not going to side with the Russians. In fact, Denmark is one of the most staunchly anti-Russian countries out there.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
So I don't think we need to invade Greenland.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
So the film that's coming out, Last Republican, actually documents in 2006, I had a situation where a guy was murdering his girlfriend and I ended up intervening and he was using a knife. And look, honestly, I would fight a guy with a pistol before I would fight a guy with a knife. And so it was like, by the grace of God, I intervened.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And I ended up beating him and got him down, disarmed him, saved her life. She got 70 stitches in her neck. You know, and I got the Airman's Medal, which is actually higher than the Bronze Star. And unlike other people that sit there and publish, I mean, you can tell I have an Airman's Medal, but I don't talk much about it. And it's, you know, it's rank and order and all that stuff.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
But anyway, that story is in this documentary and Daily Mail to their credit. I was in politics for 14 years and not a single U.S., you know, journalistic entity ever researched this story, but the Daily Mail does. Okay. And it was, to me, like, it was amazing because I find out that she was a mom when I intervened. I didn't know that. She has since had three more kids.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And honestly, you remember, I think I've talked to you about how the day before the impeachment vote, I thought we had 25, okay? And we ended up with 10. Yeah. Of those 25, people like Mike Gallagher, who was committed to vote for impeachment until he didn't, and then Nancy Mace was one of those. She was one of the drivers of it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And, you know, it's like you sit there and you realize, like, there is going to be generations that exist now because of that act that I took that I really, if somebody would have whispered to me to run, I would have run away. So I don't know. It was amazing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And the other thing that I thought was kind of funny is I think she knew who I was as a public official, but at no point realized that I was the atom that saved her. And so she basically ended up after Daily Mail calls and puts two and two together. So I'm going to talk to her at some point in the next few days. And it's been emotional for me to read that, by the way.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
It really punched me in the gut kind of because I didn't expect it to come. I didn't expect anybody to research the story as well as they did. So I give them credit and I'm looking forward to talking to her about it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
You can actually, if you Google, I think Adam Kinzinger, you know, Milwaukee knife attack or whatever on you, if you YouTube it, you can actually see a story where we meet for the first time. And that was a year after the incident, but I hadn't heard anything about her, you know, since that day.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And then she voted against impeachment, which was disappointing, but okay, fine. And then she just went all in. And all I can say is this, is either somebody has a complete, actual change in what they believe, or they were just a con artist from the beginning. And I think that's her.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
She's having real mental issues. And I mean that, like, I say that gently, understanding that if it's true, she really should get help. But that's the kind of thing. We've all, when we've done, anybody that's done any significant amount of time in Congress can tell you, you go through dark periods. At some point, I can think of years that were pretty dark for me. And I think she's in one of those.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And I say that truly, like, compassionately.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
I'll tell you what, man, I am I'm happy to be here. I'm so sad. I'm missing the grilling that Pam Bondi is going to get from the Republican senators. I'm sure they're just going to be going through her statements and and and just tearing them apart, doing their oversight job for America.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Okay. So first off, let me go after the Dems first. I thought the Democrats did a pretty bad job. Look, I get it. Pete Hegseth was against women in combat and in the military. That's worth one of the senators asking questions on. But – Hegseth, I think, regardless of whether you believe he's genuine or not, he's changed his mind.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And when he's Secretary of Defense, it's not like he's going to then turn around and ban women. But the fact that there were so many senators that used their 10 minutes or whatever, hammering that same thing, I thought was a waste. I also thought the Democrats let him get away with not answering too much. One of the things I learned as a congressman, A witness tries to filibuster you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
So you ask a basic question and they'll try to go for a minute to burn your time. And you have to kind of rudely cut them off and say, no, I'm reclaiming my time. None of the Democratic senators did that when he was, you know, burning the clock.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And I think, like, here's one, for instance. Again, if he doesn't answer questions, but she didn't answer any of them. I mean, let's be honest, you know. Hey, would you refuse an illegal order? That probably should have been asked in the first couple questions, not at the very end. Because then every senator could have been like, wait, you didn't answer.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
The answer should always be yes, by the way. Always, if you would refuse. But like, you sit there and it's like, okay, so I don't know. They were unable to kind of follow up. The fact that he used Jesus every other sentence as a prop, I would have been like, okay, hey, tell me exactly when was the conversion moment? When was your road to Damascus moment?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
What were you doing when you realized that your life was a mess and you needed to turn it around? And tell me how your life has been different since then. Because that may be something that's personal to you, but... you're sitting there using it, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
So that's the, on the Democratic side, look on the Republican side, it was a joke. It was a joke. I talked to somebody today and I have to unfortunately leave everybody anonymous here that talked to a Senator that was on that, a Republican who's like, yeah, unfortunately he's going to get in. So we all have to you know, play along and, but it's all about oversight now. It's all about oversight.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Like, no, it's not. Yeah. No, it's not. It's not. Somebody really said that oversight. Yes. Yes. A recognized Republican U S Senator said to this person, but now it's about oversight. So what you saw yesterday, Tim was. They all knew that Hegseth was going to get confirmed. They all know that. They obviously pre-count this stuff.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
I mean, you know Collins, Murkowski, Curtis, one more? I know. I know. But they basically know that, okay, there's not the resistance on this guy. So what do you do? So you instead –
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And like I know this as a former member, you instead go from asking serious questions then to how do I kiss his ass so that when he's secretary of defense, I can get an audience with him about the fighter jet, you know, in my National Guard unit. Or whatever. And that's what they were all doing. You know, Mark Wayne Mullen, you know, in essence, why are you so amazing?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
You know, all these people were sitting there trying, they want to make him happy so that when they call and say, hey, my, you know, my National Guard unit needs a new whatever, you know, Swiffer sweeper, you know, he can do it. He'll take their calls.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Like I think without stopping. So we used to do, we do the PT test in the air force, which I'm out now, but I could probably get up to, I think like 60 something before I was like toast. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Yep. My wife had made a point today because she used to work in the she worked for Pence kind of under the Scaramucci regime for Trump for a little bit. She actually dislikes the administration even more than I do, which is funny.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
She can do it in Spanish, too. So there you go. Broaden the audience. But she made the point. She goes, a lot of people think that Congress is this separate and equal branch. I guess technically it is. But the reality is...
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Congress gets starstruck by the administration like Congress gets when you see somebody that you see on TV that's in the administration or that's close to who the president is or that runs this branch or this, you know, whatever this agency, all of a sudden, instead of being oversight, you're trying to get in good with these people, right? And that's the dirty secret is it's not actual oversight.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
It's more like access. And that's what this modern American country is. And so terrible questions by the Republicans. And Pete Agseth. Now, can I mention, I haven't seen many people writing anything about this, but the fact that he didn't meet with
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
any or most at least of the Democratic senators is not only unprecedented, it is absolutely a shame because he's making it very clear that he is going to be a Republican in charge of the Department of Defense. Now, we all know that there are Republicans or Democrats that get appointed to head the Department of Defense. But once you take that position,
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
what what'd you think about eggs it's 47 five five rounds of 47 you think that's that's happening that was his claim he's one of those dudes that like you see when you're scrolling through instagram and he's like uh here's what amino acids i'm 50 but you know i look like i'm 12 and my wife was just born six minutes ago and i do amino acids that's him you know those people like and they're you
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Or once you're nominated for that position, you at least put on the pretend to be nonpartisan thing by him going and only speaking to Republicans. He made it very clear he will be a Republican military. And that that bothers me a lot, Tim.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah, absolutely. And look, even on... Again, another hit to the Democrats. How come somebody didn't spend 10 minutes talking about Ukraine? For the life of me, I don't understand that. But okay, fine. Whatever.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Yeah, and so one of the, I don't remember who it was, one of the Democratic senators asked him in passing about Ukraine. I think it was the only time he was asked. Instead of Hegseth saying, okay, whatever answer, you know, negotiations, blah, blah, blah. You know, you would expect any nominee to say, of course, we think Russia is wrong and Ukraine is the good guy here, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Instead, what he said is, we all know who the aggressor is and we all know who the good guy is. Okay. So we just now fill in our things. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
Does the director of the DNI know? You take somebody who's extreme MAGA that has been tweeting over and over how amazing Vladimir Putin is, and they put into that, in their mind, oh, well, yeah, obviously the aggressor is Ukraine because they wanted to join NATO, and the good guy is Russia who's just simply defending their right to exist. And that's what, like... So why can't he even say that?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly: Dirty Little Secret
And by the way, that was every answer Pete Hegseth gave was a noncommittal BS or it was thank God for Jesus. It was one of those kinds of things. And he got away with it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
You know, everybody decided to run because they were pissed off And there were a lot of surprise victories. In fact, almost every race, if not every race, that was on the radar, so to speak, where they're like, yeah, we're kind of watching it, went Republican. This is that moment.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Now, look, maybe it's not as big as 2010, but I would put probably all of my money on the fact that it is going to be a Democratic year. So if you have any interest in running, run. Make sure it's good with your family. I want to say this as a new dad and kind of a fairly newly married guy. Make sure you run it by your family. That's essential because this is a draining process. It's hard.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, look, I mean, and this is I got to give you credit because you were talking about this yesterday and just like, you know, hey, we've got to do something. And then you were talking about how the tea party came about. And that got me thinking. And it's like, you know, it's exactly what is happening now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Don't be afraid of losing. Now, it doesn't mean a suicide mission here, but don't be afraid of losing. If you ran and you lose, trust me, you're at least not going to have any regrets later on in life.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Listen, watching people like Todd Young... Like Bill Cassidy. Dave McCormick. McConnell. McCormick. Like, I look at this and I'm like, you know, I don't understand. If I would have said, of all the bad people, if I would have said, man, I can take one bad vote, who's it going to be? One tough vote, who's it going to be?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
It would have been Kash Patel because that has ramifications beyond this, you know, this presidential election or this presidential cycle. All I can say is this, is every one of those – Senators, and I have a special place for Bill Cassidy because he voted to remove Trump. And I thought that was courageous until I remembered, oh yeah, that was a non-election year.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And here's the key that I want to say on the outset, though, is I don't want this to be, hey, this is a left wing movement. You know, the Tea Party came in and they were trying to pull the country right. This is actually a pro-democracy version of the Tea Party. So you're going to have people from all over the political spectrum here.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Now that he's in an election year, he's doing whatever he needs to do, which by the way, has no courage because every congressman that voted to impeach this last time that was Republican, the 10 of us, we were always in an election year. Every House member is in an election year. So don't you dare look and say the Senate is braver than the House.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Because every time they're in an election year, they're as bad as the House. And Cassidy gets a special place in my contempt because I trusted him, honestly.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, the hell you will. Stop it. Oh, stop it, Chuck. Charles. Charles Grassley.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Hey, KA Money Sign H, be careful. Chuck's coming to the headquarters today. What do you do? Just throw a sandwich out there and he's a nap by 10 o'clock and you're good to go? Listen, and the funny thing about Chuck Grassley is When I talked about the Tea Party in 2010 and I mentioned him, he's the dude that what happened is he was going to vote for this Obamacare bill or he was negotiating it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
But basically what happened in the Tea Party, Republicans felt defeated. And I remember I went, you know, exploring, running for Congress, talking to the Republican congressman like in January after Obama won. And they were just beat down. They were just sad, tired, like, yeah, I guess you can run. I don't know what it's going to look like.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And the Tea Party protested his town hall. And he immediately after that said he's exiting negotiations. And that's when what was going to be a bipartisan health care bill fell apart. And Democrats made the decision, we're just going to run this through on partisan votes. But he's the one.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
So look, if there's anybody to exert pressure on, I mean, he probably thinks he's going to be in the Senate until he's 138. So maybe, maybe. Maybe now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, it feels like when you own a house and you just decide to delay maintenance on it, right? Like, you know, you don't need to paint the walls. You don't need to replace the roof. And, you know, for a couple of years, you don't. And then all of a sudden, everything falls apart. And it kind of feels like maybe that's going to be what happens. But it's not good.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And it's politicizing the FBI, really politicizing it, not like fake politicizing it like Trump says.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
It is. It is. It is. I think we're all in disbelief because... I guess we're not surprised, we're not shocked by this, but it's the pace at which Trump pivoted is shocking. And the fact that, by the way, there are all of his advisors walking around saying, I mean, Walt said this, you got to quit being mean to him. Hey, Zelensky, you're being mean to him. What do you expect? What is this?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And it was this grassroots energy then that started showing up at town hall meetings. And then they show I think it started with Chuck Grassley and it had to do with the health care bill. They started basically, you know, yelling, protesting, whatever. Then members of Congress quit doing town halls. And that obviously looked like they were hiding, which they were.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
This is a toddler. I mean, honest to God, I've got a three-year-old, and I'm careful at what I say around him because I don't want him to go off. But I recognize that he's a not-developed toddler. And that's exactly what they're saying. So this guy, President Trump, is so advanced in 5-D chess and all that, that you have to be careful that you say some mean words to him?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
You had said this yesterday. It's like whoever came out and said, well, he likes people. Crenshaw, he likes people. Oh, yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Look, I've been trying to unfriend this guy for years, and he just keeps tweeting at me like I'm his buddy. I can't, I don't get it. I mean, look, this is in a way I feel sorry for Dan only because I know he knows better and he's like sitting there going, gosh, how do I, but I don't feel bad because he could just say the truth. He's like Mike Waltz, right? They know better.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Like, what is this job worth? I mean, I don't know if you saw the clip where Dan was DJing at the, at like whatever the inauguration thing is and drinking a beer and being all cool. I guess that's it. You have screaming throngs of 19 year old fricking, you know, Charlie Kirk types, I guess. And maybe that's worth it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
He could be like Tiesto, man. Just go do that. Go do those big events. And the pretzels these folks twist themselves into, it's like we are doing everything we can to not admit that Trump just likes Russia and he doesn't like Ukraine. And why is that? I mean, there's any number of theories out there, but it's just a fact. We
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
know this and so you know marco rubio and and waltz and can say you need to quit being a meanie to him and all this stuff but the reality is he just loves russia now let me make one other quick point the united states the casualty numbers are around 400 000 people we lost and or injured i think during world war ii that number may be a little low but but russia is approaching twice the
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
the number of casualties of the United States in World War II. And think about what we did in World War II. We island hopped all the way to Japan. We liberated Germany. We liberated an entire continent. And Russia's lost twice as many as we have and gained a fraction of just the territory of Ukraine.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
and you just had this gasoline on a fire that ended up really overtaking the House of Representatives and the Senate in 2010. I think that's what needs to happen now. Everybody is kind of waiting, including me, I mean, we're all in the same boat, for like some action plan. Here's the one, two, three step that's gonna guarantee that we can stop X, Y, and Z. That's not gonna happen.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
I mean, if you extrapolate how much Russia has gained in the last two years to saying how long will it take them to take the rest of Ukraine, it's the cost of 10 million or 20 million men. And it is 100 years from now at that rate that they will actually take Ukraine. Ukraine is winning. Like, look, for a defending country, all you have to do is keep defending yourself. That's it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
It's nonsensical. I mean, anybody that went to third grade history understands it's nonsensical. Look, if you're a country getting attacked, yeah, you have to defend yourself, and you're probably gonna lose some territory defending yourself. The hope is to create enough pressure and attrition on the attacking country that eventually they fall apart. That's exactly what's happening.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
That is military history 101 that every freshman in ROTC learns, and these guys don't understand it, don't care to, And honestly, they believe. I've started listening to 1984 again on Audible. Relevant. And you're like, this is exactly what this is. Don't believe your own eyes. Believe what I tell you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, I think I put this on Twitter on one of the tweets I probably shouldn't have done, of course.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
I know, I know. Well, look, evidently you have to have Twitter and speak real now anyway. That's true. That's a good point. That's a good point. I said something about how freaking beta it is to follow a man and literally be sitting around going, everything Trump says is right. And this is a guy that is fat, that golfs all the time, that literally is the biggest whiner.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
He's never done manual labor in his life. This is exactly the kind of person that folks would be like. He's the opposite of a man. The only thing he does is he yells, he's petulant, and he tweets in all caps. If that's manly, great, cool. But what this reminds me of...
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
It's like those cartoons where it's the little mouse and he's got like a big elephant as a sidekick and the little mouse is the bully and the big elephant's like, what do you want, sir? Right? That's the whole GOP male establishment that could be like, they could schwack Donald Trump down and be like, listen, man, you're nothing but a whiny little bitch. But they don't.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Like that doesn't happen. What is going to happen is there's going to be grassroots energy that rises up that begins to build whatever this movement is that it looks like. But that's how, when you have historical things that change a country, it never comes from one person giving somebody a blueprint. It always comes from like just this outrage or this anger and this demand for change.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
They sit there and they follow him because he's scary. Because he can bring people to tweet against me and I might lose my job. Ooh.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Could you imagine? And that's where I'm like with Ukraine. And I hope Europe, by the way, Europe has got to step up in this moment. The only bad thing about that is the magas will say this was Donald Trump's plan all along. He really wanted Ukraine to win. He just wanted Europe to step up. Don't fall for that. It's not true. He wants Ukraine to lose, by the way.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
But hopefully this is a moment where Europe can step up and be like, you know what, America, we'd love to have you. You're very important. We don't need you. Rheinmetall, NAMO, all of our other European defense agencies, they're going to make enough stuff for Ukraine. And we'll stop the Russians. And you can basically take your tariffs and leave Europe.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, there has been that notion. And honestly, that notion exists in Europe, too. I mean, Europe, they have been paralyzed for 80 years. And this has actually worked to our advantage, right? Because we can write the rules of the road. We get to basically determine what's important for defense. But regardless, Europe has basically kind of gotten paralyzed and relied on the United States.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And so what happens if they finally do kind of find their cojones and decide that we're going to support Ukraine is, First off, it'd be great for the European defense establishment, because that's atrophied so much. Secondly, it will take a while for it to continue to spin up, but they're leaning forward right now. And Denmark, especially, has made it very clear.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Like, we're gonna buy the best weapons. If they're not available, we're buying the second best weapons. The key here is speed. That's what they've said. What does that mean for the United States? Look, there are rumors right now that are pretty strong. They're not just internet rumors that Trump plans to announce a withdrawal of all American troops from Europe within the next month.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Now, maybe it doesn't happen, but I honestly won't be surprised if it does. So if Europe steps up and says, fine, we'll do this with Ukraine, I could see Donald Trump pouting, taking his ball, going home and saying, good, obviously you've got Europe all yourself. The point is, though, Like, yes, he has the power to do it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Not much we can do to stop it, except I think that is going to be seen as a bigger betrayal than Afghanistan. And Joe Biden, which, by the way, he was just executing, honestly, Donald Trump's brilliant negotiation in Afghanistan. Biden went underwater on his numbers after Afghanistan and never recovered. Donald Trump could do the same. But
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
You know, for those looking saying, well, what's the quick answer to that? I'm sorry, there just isn't. We have a system set up where you can really have a voice in two years, and we're just going to have to wait that out.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And I think we started to see that yesterday at this Georgia town hall. And, uh, I, I, I don't know. I just feel like we're at a moment where this is going to and can grow into something. And again, I do want to stress, don't make this a left-wing thing because it'll flame out. Trust me, they always do. Make this about pro-democracy and defending our government.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah. And it's intimidating. I mean, it is, right? You get something from the U.S. attorney, and you're like, gosh, I went on CNN. They don't pay me, or if they pay me, they don't pay me a ton. It's just not worth it. That's exactly what they're doing. And I would suggest this to anybody that gets a letter like this, including if I get one. Take a photocopy of your butt. Right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Sign it and send it back with that letter. Because honestly, there's nothing he can do. And what we have to do, and I mean this seriously, is make a mockery of the system they're making a mockery of. I've always said, too, call me back to the January 6th committee. Let's talk about that. And honestly, I hope you put my testimony on television because it's going to be good.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
It's going to be really good. Including... Let's go through some of the tweets of some of the people on the committee and stuff like that. And, you know, hey, let me go through this Bible verse there, Christian. How do you how does this compose with what you're doing? So I think what we have to do, like take, you know, legal stuff seriously, obviously.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
But when it comes to where they're making a mockery of it, if you can afford to and by the way, you know, make a mockery back. That's that's the way we're going to win this thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And look, by the way, if they arrest you on spurious charges like this, you'll be you'll be famous in the country. Monetize that so you'll make money from it. Then you can run for whatever you want to run for because now you're the famous resistor. So look at the bright side of things. Yeah. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
We can always debate the particulars later when we have power.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
I mean, look, we've got to get past this. When they talk about free speech, all they mean is oppression of speech that's not theirs. That's literally all they mean. And remember when they wanted to repeal Section 230 or whatever because, you know, and now all of a sudden they're all for it. that because they own the platforms now. And look, this is sad.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And can we get past calling Elon just such a good guy because he wants to repopulate the world and he's a failing man and he carries X on his shoulders who, by the way, tells the president of the United States that he's not the real president because he definitely heard that from somebody in his life who's in his life that would like to tell him that he's the real president.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
I don't know, Elon Musk. And so can we get past this idea that it's cute that he carries him on his shoulders? Look, I hope he's a great dad to X. I do. But he is obviously, you know, through IVF, which is weird, you know, got another girl pregnant and then ignored her. And then now with Grimes and the guy's got a gajillion and a half dollars.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Like you could write a billion dollar check to baby mama and and probably never have to see them again. And it wouldn't even get your. So there's something else going on. And it's just narcissistic psychotasy is what you have in Elon Musk. And for whatever reason, he just doesn't care about anybody but himself.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And one has health problems, whatever that means. It sounds like, you know, for Grimes to tweet that, she's got to be really actually concerned for her child and not just like, I want to embarrass Elon because that's embarrassing to her too.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Look, I think this may be the thing that kind of unites everybody a little bit. It's not going to be Elon Musk because the right loves him, but like this kind of eat the rich sort of. We've got to walk the line on that. But let me just also say that doesn't mean kill these people, folks, like this Italian dude. Not Luigi. Not Luigi, but you can boo them all you want. That's great.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Oh, gosh. Huge. Huge. Listen, I mean... You know, there's always this feeling we talk about how, you know, the voices on the far right, like the anti-Ukraine voices, they're outrepresented on Twitter, for instance, and it seems like they're everywhere. This is the same kind of dynamic where all of a sudden you're in a red district, 75% red district.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, it just starts in your toe. You start tapping. Next thing you know, it's overtaking the body. And you're just like, you know, I've never done Molly, but that might be a good time. That might be a good time. To join the Elon ranks and just let it flow through you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
You show up to do your town hall that you've done every couple months or whatever, and now all of a sudden outrage is showing up. That is intimidating.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
There is not a single person out there, unless you're a psychopath that just loves that, and there are a few people like that, but there's not a real person out there that's gonna stand in front of that, get yelled at, get screamed at, make national news for not having an answer like Rich McCormick didn't, and then say, you know what, we gotta go do that again.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Let's do that again next month, right? No, what happens is you quit doing town halls. Now people continue to be outraged more because you're hiding from them. And this is what builds over a one to two year period. And look, I've been protesting at town halls. I'm going to tell you, it sucks. I also know, and for me, it was like, why are we doing these town halls then? Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And when I ran in 2010, you know, with respect to the lady I beat in 2010, we had a lot of people showing up at her town halls and she quit doing them. And in fact, at one town hall had her chief of staff answer questions. And what happens is they end up going into defense mode. They end up reacting poorly. And also...
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Good, buddy. You know, and it's weird because I've never rooted against America. But last night, I mean, I'll be honest, there was part of me that's like, it'd be nice to see Trump have to eat his words a little bit.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
they now may end up finding the courage to stand up to Donald Trump, truly, because now they're like, gosh, I may lose my election. Maybe not in a 75% red district, but there are a lot of districts that Donald Trump over a 10-year period turned that are actually gettable here.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, I fully actually agree with you. So I think when I, I guess maybe I misstated it when I said not ideological, I mean, don't turn this into a defund the police movement. Don't turn this into, you know, we need to triple the amount of genders we recognize, you know, something like that. Right. Because the tea party movement started out with the Rick Santelli screed. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And at one point, and this is maybe after the election, it ended up with, you promised me you'll never raise the debt limit. You promised me you'll always eternally vote to defund Obamacare. I do think you're right about there's got to be a rallying cry. And honestly, I agree with you. I actually think it's Elon Musk. And I think it's the billionaire oppression.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
The fact that, I think you said this yesterday, the richest guy and the most powerful guy are best friends and now in control of government. And they're out there trying to determine what the government looks like that we live under. Not Congress. Not the people that we elect to go figure this out for us. I mean, look, if Congress wanted to shut down every agency, honestly, I'd oppose it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
But fine. That's what Congress's job is. And so I think when you tell the American people, look, the founding fathers never intended. For Elon Musk to have more power than you. Yes, they intended for Donald Trump to have more power than you. There's nothing we can do about that. But Elon Musk, no. Jeff Bezos, no. They never intended that. So what are we going to do? We're going to stop it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
We're going to rise up and say we're not going to be controlled by billionaires. I do think that is a brilliant rallying cry. And frankly, it's not just the anti-Trump stuff, right, which kind of ran its course, still has some legs. But this is real. This is like Americans don't feel good about this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And no offense to our friends up north, but I don't give a rat's backside about hockey. So it's not like, if this was American football and we were against Canada, but you know.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
I agree. I agree. Look, I think, you know, when all this is said and done and Doge fake agency, Doge actually ends up saving, they're going to say a gajillion dollars. Let's say it's 10 billion, 20 billion, even 30 billion, which it's not going to be real money on that. But let's say it is. Elon Musk makes that in a day, by the way. So he takes what he makes in a day.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Could have just written a check to the government, by the way, and been a hero. Won't do that. But instead, he does. They get rid of these people that... And it's not even just the veterans, Tim. It's the next generation of government employees, right? The Gen Zers or the millennials that we need in those positions, that in 15 years, we need to be the experts in Social Security.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
We need them to be the experts in logistics and FEMA. We need them to be the experts in those things. That generation, because those are the probationary folks... are going to get wiped out.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
I have a former staffer that works at DOD doing very important stuff that thinks he's going to get canned actually this week because he's a probationary person because he just started there a year ago, even though he has plenty of experience in other areas. So they're going to do that. The other thing about this with the veterans thing I want to bring up is, look, They don't care about veterans.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And I'm not saying that as a cudgel. I'm not saying that as like, you know, you run a campaign every year and say your opponent doesn't care about veterans, and they really do. Look, all you have to do is look at Twitter. Let's take that for a second.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And anybody who served in the military, the number of kind of MAGA folks under there that degenerate their service, that call them, you know, not manly or whatever. No love for Dan Crenshaw here, but every time he posts something, there's all the people that call him Eyepatch McCain and make fun of his eye. Like, that is what we're dealing with.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And also, look, there was just a discussion a month ago that they need to start cutting, and I'm a recipient of this now, cutting VA disability from veterans.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
because there's just too many veterans with VA disability, despite the fact that we passed the PACT Act, which is the burn pit thing, and these veterans that are getting on disability, including myself, are recipients of the burn pits because they were exposed to terrible things that did bad things to them, and we decided as a country we need to take care of them.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
But they don't care, and that's a big concern.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, of course not. And it's insane. And plus, as a guy that knows plenty of veterans that go through some mental health crises, look, what happens is you always hit a low moment. Maybe you're drinking, right? And you're sitting there and all of a sudden you're looking at your pistol or whatever it is. And then you need somebody to reach out to.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Maybe you have friends left in the military you can reach out to, hopefully. Maybe you don't. Maybe you're a Vietnam veteran. Right. Maybe you're an early Afghanistan veteran that's dealing with the fact that we left Afghanistan in shambles. And you have that crisis at night, just calling and talking to somebody, somebody that says, listen, I care.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
That is the difference between life and death for a lot of people. And it is cold. It is cynical. And it is disgusting that that be the thing you target simply because Elon wants to be able to tweet, you know, LOL, I cut X amount of money. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
Yeah, look, you're exactly right. And I just did the quick math. I'm like, every massive wave election is about 12 to 15 years apart. And if you think about the last one, 2010, I mean, we're there now. It's weird. So yeah, I mean, it's 100% true. So I decided to run in 2010 against a Democratic incumbent that had won by 25%. And when I decided to run, people were like, hey, we'll back you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
And that goes to show how much times have changed. I was the establishment guy, and I got 75%.
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
in a five-way primary you know they're like we're back you but man this is tough you know your your opponent her name's debbie halverson she's freshman you know younger lady and i ended up beating her by it was the largest swing actually an incumbent had won to what they lost by the next election without a scandal i think in the country in like 50 years so but the point is i knew i could win but nobody else did and and there were people look i had a
The Bulwark Podcast
Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen
friend in my class that was an airline pilot that just decided to run because he had a little extra time, Billy Long was an auctioneer. I mean, all these people came from all, you know, ends of life. Sean Duffy came in that class and basically said, and ran against and beat the chairman of transportation and infrastructure, by the way.